Supporters Shield Race

[105]

TFC is expected to be in the mix, so I will update periodically through season.


Final Standings

Overall Points:

1. Toronto: 69 points
2. New York City: 57 points
3. Chicago: 55 points
4. Atlanta: 55 points
5. Columbus: 54 points


Points Per Game:

1. Toronto: 2.03
2. New York City 1.68
3. Chicago: 1.62
4. Atlanta: 1.62
5. Columbus: 1.59


TFC Magic Number to Clinch Supporters Shield: CLINCHED


Points Needed to Pass MLS regular season record: CLINCHED

[Fort York Redcoat]

No superstitious posts yet? :rolleyes::D

Guess its no pussplops to people.

[CBTFC]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about "winning" the regular season?

Ask the Washington Capitals how that's working out for them ;)

[Voodooman]

Which sucks because imo the season should mean more than "playoffs".

But yes staying off this cause of Toronto reasoning. We stay off things like this

[Fort York Redcoat]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about "winning" the regular season?

Ask the Washington Capitals how that's working out for them ;)

One side of the coin.

Either it's the Presidents trophy to you or it's the toughest trophy to win and you appreciate it. I'd prefer it to pussplops.

But no

you are not alone.

[TFC_4_Life]

I think the Supporters Shield is a trophy and accomplishment that should be celebrated. I want TFC to try and win it.
It's not a choice of one trophy over another. Both have meaning and are important. Clearly the "Champion" of MLS still refers to the playoffs.

[Section_105]

By winning the shield you have the best position from which to win the cup. That said it's that fine line between being ready for the playoffs and killing yourselves to get the top spot and crashing out.

Hopefully we are deep enough to do both.

[Initial B]

A Suppository Sled title would be nice, but I'd rather have a pussplops Cup.

[eustacchio]

Why not both?


(but also season > playoffs)

[UpTheReds]

In any sport to me if you win the league you're the true champion. Particularly in football. I think playoffs are useless but I get it, it keeps the interests of more fans for a longer period. I really prefer the promotion relegation system over any playoffs system but I understand the challenges that possesses in North America.

[Hamilton_Red]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about "winning" the regular season?

Ask the Washington Capitals how that's working out for them ;)

Well if you ask the question who was the best team in MLS in 2016 the honest answer would be......Dallas. So for me winning the league is the biggest achievement & winning the cup is a lot of fun,

[Fort York Redcoat]

A Suppository Sled title would be nice, but I'd rather have a pussplops Cup.

Yikes.

I'd rather the Supper Dish. We'll work on it.:D

[SoccMan2]

This is North America and unfortunately things are done differently here, you play a regular season and you play for making the playoffs and trying to get the best positions that hopefully will give you advantages in the playoffs. Here you win the playoffs and you are considered the best and the champion. Winning the regular season is not going to get the whole city behind you in celebration, win the playoffs and MLS Cup and you get the mainstream media and all sports fans behind you in celebration, that's what it's all about for me winning something that even the non soccer fan will get behind, see tv ratings for last years playoff run. Winning the regular season is nice for us few diehards that come on these boards but it does not engage the whole city does not get the team as much attention not even close as winning the playoffs and MLS Cup.

[noimpactinmtl]

Winning the double would be very nice.

Winning the Presidents Cup in the NHL nets you the toughest second round match up in all of sports.

That said, I'm all for the Supporters Shield for banter chants.

[barticusz]

I'd love a supporters shield. Definitely has value to me as regardless of who wins the tournament, the league champ is truly the best team. Ie Dallas from last year.

[Oldtimer]

First place now! Hope that they can keep it up.

[UpTheReds]

Ya it's nice to be top of the league so early in the season. There's certainly going to be lots of ups and downs this season but it's important to lay down the marker early.

[105]

updated!

[Joe Kool]

It's a race!! I hope I win. - Enrico Pollini

https://68.media.tumblr.com/23f8cc709ccbf39b198db73275440a19/tumblr_mjzuwgJjH11qk0pfao1_500.gif

[Leedsoronto]

I'd love a supporters shield. Definitely has value to me as regardless of who wins the tournament, the league champ is truly the best team. Ie Dallas from last year.

As a Brit I will never understand the concept of the best team in the whole wide league winning a shield after a years hard work and commitment and the best one in a mini end o season league (playoff) winning the MLS cup, bit arse about face for me, but hey that's the way here so I suck it n see. !!

Don't even get me started on relegation and promotion :@)

[pdogg]

As a Brit I will never understand the concept of the best team in the whole wide league winning a shield after a years hard work and commitment and the best one in a mini end o season league (playoff) winning the MLS cup, bit arse about face for me, but hey that's the way here so I suck it n see. !!

Don't even get me started on relegation and promotion :@)

Different implementation - but think of FA Cup or League Cup. Different timing and they don't allow lower leagues to enter. US Open replaces one of those, the MLS Cup replaces the other.

[DinamoTFC]

As a Brit I will never understand the concept of the best team in the whole wide league winning a shield after a years hard work and commitment and the best one in a mini end o season league (playoff) winning the MLS cup, bit arse about face for me, but hey that's the way here so I suck it n see. !!

Don't even get me started on relegation and promotion :@)

One reason you can't take the season winners as a true winner in MLS is because the schedules are unbalanced. Teams do not play the same number of opponents equally. For example. TFC usually plays easter conference opponents 2-3x vs western conference opponents 1x. So if east is hypothetically stronger than west, then a western conference team has better odds of winning season.

This also doesn't include same conference opponents are usually played 2x at home and 1 x away (or vice versa)and varies for each team so not an equal home and away series.

[Red CB Toronto]

I want the Reds to win this big time, giving them home field throughout the post-season and a first round bye.

[TFC Tifoso]

if anyone reads the soccer magazine "HOWLER" (I've only ever seen it for sale at Chapters), there's a really great article about pro/rel in this issue (Roy Keane illustration on the cover).

the writer goes into great depth to discuss the pros/cons of it, and how to make it work in NA.....good read....

[Areathrasher]

if anyone reads the soccer magazine "HOWLER" (I've only ever seen it for sale at Chapters), there's a really great article about pro/rel in this issue (Roy Keane illustration on the cover).

the writer goes into great depth to discuss the pros/cons of it, and how to make it work in NA.....good read....

The Peter Wilt one? Think it's up on Howlers website.

[molenshtain]

The Peter Wilt one? Think it's up on Howlers website.

right here: https://whatahowler.com/the-pro-rel-manifesto-245d5597f2f8

Oh, Peter Wilt. One of the true characters of American soccer. I remember advocating for him being our GM before ownership went and hired Payne. Guy has had quite a career.

[Areathrasher]

right here: https://whatahowler.com/the-pro-rel-manifesto-245d5597f2f8

Oh, Peter Wilt. One of the true characters of American soccer. I remember advocating for him being our GM before ownership went and hired Payne. Guy has had quite a career.

Wasn't he en route to Toronto for an interview with TFC then when he landed Payne was announced as GM?

[molenshtain]

Wasn't he en route to Toronto for an interview with TFC then when he landed Payne was announced as GM?


Depends who you ask. I used to know a guy who used to be one of the leaders of Section 8 during the mid to late 2000's, and then had a working relationship with Wilt on his last few teams/projects. IIRC I remember asking him around the time what happened with that Wilt rumor and he basically said he hadn't talked to Wilt but he'd heard a couple competing stories from different places so it was anybody's guess.

If you've heard the stories about how he his personally, though, you can imagine the culture clash he'd have had with top brass at MLSE. I'm inclined to believe we were strongly considering him but MLSE wasn't totally sold, and then Payne came along and was a much less offensive choice so they got him instead. Whether or not he was literally on a plane on the way here is neither here nor there. we'll never know that bit.

[TFC Tifoso]

The Peter Wilt one? Think it's up on Howlers website.


right here: https://whatahowler.com/the-pro-rel-manifesto-245d5597f2f8

Oh, Peter Wilt. One of the true characters of American soccer. I remember advocating for him being our GM before ownership went and hired Payne. Guy has had quite a career.

yup that's the one guys......good read to go through....

[OgtheDim]

Peter Wilt selling the same consoltation piece he wrote up a year ago for USSF and calling it an article? I remember reading that and wondering what economic world he was living in.

[TFC Tifoso]

Peter Wilt selling the same consoltation piece he wrote up a year ago for USSF and calling it an article? I remember reading that and wondering what economic world he was living in.

you mean the posted link? What's so out of this world about it?.....

[OgtheDim]

In an open pro/rel structure, a relegated MLS team would indeed lose value, but not nearly as much as the difference in the current valuations of first- and second-division clubs suggests. The reduction in value would mainly result from the lower quality of play and the reduction in revenue streams, especially the loss of first-division broadcast payouts. However, the relegated team would retain much of its former value because it would still have the opportunity to rejoin the first division in ensuing years.

He's assuming European value loss between divisions and conveniently overstating the opposite view.

He is assuming sustainability at the second level in North America is compatible to the second level in the UK or France.

He is assuming TV revenues are the biggest loss in revenue streams.

He's ignoring that many teams that do go down do not go back up (my parent's hometown team was forcibly relegated from the Football league in 1971 and only this year got within one place of going back up)

He's ignoring that many teams that do go down risk going belly up (Hereford and numerous other examples).

He's also ignoring that when teams go down, costs do not decrease at the same rate as revenue.

He's ignoring the main driver of team existence in North America is not hundred-year-old fan bases and/or geographic location loyalty but ownership willing to put a team in a location.

As I said, he's living in a fantasy world.

[TFC Tifoso]

He's assuming European value loss between divisions and conveniently overstating the opposite view.

He is assuming TV revenues are the biggest loss in revenue streams.

He's ignoring that many teams that do go down do not go back up (my parent's home town team was forcibly relegated in 1971 and only this year got within one place of going back up)

He's ignoring that many teams that do go down risk going belly up (Hereford and numerous other examples).

He's also ignoring that when teams go down, costs do not decrease at the same rate as revenue.

He's ignoring the main driver of team existence in North America is not hundred-year-old fan bases and/or geographic location loyalty but ownership willing to put a team in a location.

As I said, he's living in a fantasy world.

ok I get that, but aren't those points relevant to pretty much any league across Europe, say?

The bolded point for me is the biggest one that would need to be worked around to make pro/rel work in NA.....I just can't wrap my head around how any owner who puts up what is now 100M in expansion fee would be able to accept their team getting sent down.....

pro/rel is definitely not imminent here, but not impossible either....I think he's laid it out as reasonably as anyone could.....

[OgtheDim]

European distances and built in loyalties keep down costs and keep up revenues that allow teams to survive drops more easily. Pro/Rel as a system in Europe can not be brought over to North America....yet.

The US and Canada are slowly developing the infrastructure of local teams that will eventually allow for Pro Rel to exist - but we are talking 60 years from now for this to become sustainable and given that 60 years ago the biggest sports in the US were boxing and horse racing, I wouldn't want to make that bet.

[TFC Tifoso]

European distances and built in loyalties keep down costs and keep up revenues that allow teams to survive drops more easily. Pro/Rel as a system in Europe can not be brought over to North America....yet.

The US and Canada are slowly developing the infrastructure of local teams that will eventually allow for Pro Rel to exist - but we are talking 60 years from now for this to become sustainable and given that 60 years ago the biggest sports in the US were boxing and horse racing, I wouldn't want to make that bet.

I don't really understand what you mean by that....

Though I agree that the infrastructure is not quite in place yet, but is getting there....once that's in place, its a much more reasonable discussion.....still, I'm a little more confident that it can take place in a shorter period of time....20 years or so.....

[OgtheDim]

When your league is no further than the distance between Windsor & Toronto, and you can have about 20 teams in that distance, your costs are significantly less then any Div 2 in North America would be. And the decades built in loyalties to local clubs in Europe keeps revenue coming in that wouldn't necessarily happen in leagues where there is no history.

[TFC Tifoso]

When your league is no further than the distance between Windsor & Toronto, and you can have about 20 teams in that distance, your costs are significantly less then any Div 2 in North America would be. And the decades built in loyalties to local clubs in Europe keeps revenue coming in that wouldn't necessarily happen in leagues where there is no history.

ok I get the distance point, but I don't necessarily agree with loyalties that prop up revenue....you could make a case in that sense for teams who are in the bottom half of top flights, and special cases in teams like Newcastle, but in the general sense, I'm not so sure....

how much can any average team in the Championship or League 1 rely on revenues to prop them up? I see it as all relative to the teams they compete with.....once they move up, the revenue boost that comes from the league, and the increased interest from being in a better league boosts it.....just as I imagine it would with pro/rel here......

[Cashcleaner]

I think the Supporters Shield is a trophy and accomplishment that should be celebrated. I want TFC to try and win it.
It's not a choice of one trophy over another. Both have meaning and are important. Clearly the "Champion" of MLS still refers to the playoffs.

For me, I couldn't really say which is more important in my mind, but like others have said, winning the SS is really winning the league title, and that should mean a lot. That said though, it's also true what they say about winning the last game of the year. A team could win the Supporters Shield and proceed to completely flame-out of the playoffs making the prior accomplishment somewhat moot, so there's that to consider.

[paul-collins]

ok I get the distance point, but I don't necessarily agree with loyalties that prop up revenue....
North America is a franchise setup, that's true of all the sports. If tribal loyalty meant anything in NA sports, you wouldn't see NFL teams flipping around the way they do.

North America, as a transient population, doesn't have the same sort of geographic loyalty that exists in European cities. Sure, there are some areas (especially in the 13 colonies) that have that vibe, and it is predominantly expressed through NCAA competition, but the majority of the population centres have a large amount of from-away residents who aren't so integrated into the community as to treat the sporting entities as expression of their identity.

[TFC Tifoso]

North America is a franchise setup, that's true of all the sports. If tribal loyalty meant anything in NA sports, you wouldn't see NFL teams flipping around the way they do.

North America, as a transient population, doesn't have the same sort of geographic loyalty that exists in European cities. Sure, there are some areas (especially in the 13 colonies) that have that vibe, and it is predominantly expressed through NCAA competition, but the majority of the population centres have a large amount of from-away residents who aren't so integrated into the community as to treat the sporting entities as expression of their identity.

yeah I get that, but I see soccer in NA as a unique situation and here's why....

growing infrastructure in the soccer landscape will bring teams to cities which may not have much to choose from, or may be the "only show in town", like NCAA college towns (or like what currently exists in Seattle, Portland, etc). This could go a long way it getting the people in these cities to get behind their team. The big pro leagues (MLB, NFL, NBA) only have a handful of places to choose from, because their objective is to have teams is the largest markets. And in the places where there is not enough support to maintain the huge costs, you'll see problems. Soccer can be a little more selective in this sense.
Also, the average soccer fan in NA is very used to the geographic loyalty that exists in Europe, and seeing as many immigrate from places where this exists, they also bring a loyalty to their new home. A bit of an assumption sure, but what we have right here in Toronto is an example. Immigrants or children of immigrants who all have loyalties to their teams from the old country, but take to TFC just the same, because for a soccer fan, its just what you do.

As long as it is not done something like Chivas USA, where a connection from the team to the people was basically forced, I think there's a potential to work very well.

[fergiejr]

.

For me I couldn't really say which is more important in my mind, but like others have said, winning the SS is really winnning the league title, and that should mean a lot. That said though, it's also true what they say about winning the last game of the year. A team could win the Supporters Shield and proceed to completely flame-out of the playoffs making the prior accomplishment somewhat moot, so there's that to consider.


I was going to try and research this, but then - well Wikipedia to the rescue... :-)

The last time a league winner won the cup was in 2011 - LAG.

I see this as two different "seasons". The playoffs are a whole new game. It's true that in NA we put more emphasis on a tournament that happens after the regular season, but that's how we do things in NA. As a recently converted fan I can see how this is important to those who only follow the NA way of sports - it feels familiar. Your team still has a chance at glory even though they came in 3rd in the division.

Having said that, I would like to see more emphasis placed on the shield. I would also love our boys to win it for us. ;-) We are coming a long way with this - remember, MLS used to have running penalties akin to NHL penalty shots. :-)

[ryan]

SS = Best Team in the League
MLS Cup = League Champion

These are not the same thing. The best team doesn't always win the trophy.

[leafsman]

The MLS Cup is what matters most. The only people who care about the Shield are the supporters groups. The average fan only the cup matters and people wont remember who was the regular season champion.

Whats the benefit of pro/reg?

[molenshtain]

Whats the benefit of pro/reg?

1) Every team in the country(s) fall under the same pyramid, from the biggest Professional clubs down to sunday league sides.
2) the idea that you or I can form a club and see it rise to the top
3) In our case, we would theoretically no longer be incorporated as part of the league and all the current MLS teams would become their own stand alone entity's, and therefore supporters would have a far larger hand in the welfare of the club, and therefore a greater kinship towards the team.

This, theoretically, would in turn lead to a top down growth in the game. But there are many significant obstacles in place that make this scenario an impossibility in the near future and highly unlikely beyond that. There are also a hell of a lot of structural problems, some self-inflicted some not, that make it really unforeseeable atm.

There will likely come a time down the road when MLS and USSf are big enough that they'll have to decide whether they want to permanently go the single-entity route and stay the course, or really create a pyramid and see where that takes us. It'll be a long while 'til US Soccer forces itself to confront the fact that demand for local professional clubs across the US and Canada massively outweigh the supply, and that leaving that hole unsatisfied is bad for business long term.

Still a very long way down the road though.

[paul-collins]

yeah I get that, but I see soccer in NA as a unique situation and here's why....

growing infrastructure in the soccer landscape will bring teams to cities which may not have much to choose from, or may be the "only show in town", like NCAA college towns (or like what currently exists in Seattle, Portland, etc). This could go a long way it getting the people in these cities to get behind their team.
You see this a bit in CHL, but you still get franchise behaviour (Bellveille Bulls, Brampton Battalion leaving, other teams like Peterborough Petes threatening to do so if they can't shake money out of local government etc)

I wish I had your optimism about communities rallying around a local team, but I just don't believe we have the rootedness required - heck, by definition, as a land of immigrants, we've been built by the people who have the most tenuous of roots to begin with.

[StokeciTFC]

SS = Best Team in the League
MLS Cup = League Champion

These are not the same thing. The best team doesn't always win the trophy.

or, it could be said:

SS - top of the qualifying rounds
MLS Cup - season champion

[Leedsoronto]

To save any arguments let's just win both this year

[Fort York Redcoat]

The MLS Cup is what matters most. The only people who care about the Shield are the supporters groups. The average fan only the cup matters and people wont remember who was the regular season champion.

Whats the benefit of pro/reg?

Let's play a game.

[The Supporters Shield is what matters most. The only people who care about MLS cup are average fans. The supporters appreciate the most winning team in the league and won't care who wins the post season tournament.

What's the benefit of playoffs to the supporter who watches every game of the season?]

Not great diminishing one group vs the other.

This thread is divisive. Let's keep it to structure and lay off the pigeon holing.

[Oldtimer]

To save any arguments let's just win both this year

That wouldn't be impossible at this point.

Pushing aside the discussions about prom/rel (isn't that a regular off-season thread since year 1?) and staying on topic I would love for TFC to win the SS. We've got the most depth, so the chances are good, even in a league of parity.

[GlenM]

There's only one way to play.

"You play to win the game"!

i.e. Go for everything...Supporters Shield, MLS Cup, CCL Championship, Concacef Championship

GlenM

[Section_105]

When your league is no further than the distance between Windsor & Toronto, and you can have about 20 teams in that distance, your costs are significantly less then any Div 2 in North America would be. And the decades built in loyalties to local clubs in Europe keeps revenue coming in that wouldn't necessarily happen in leagues where there is no history.

This. Look at what happens when Montreal are doing crap. For all their bluster and arrogance their fan base evaporates when the team isn't winning (Expos anyone). DC, both texas teams, ....on and on have huge empty spots in their stadiums when we play them. The environment in N/A is not ready for Pro-Rel. Shit I can't believe I got into another pro-rel debate. It's just silly.

[Section_105]

To save any arguments let's just win both this year

and back on topic. THIS.

I want all the silver wares.

[paul-collins]

PPG up to 2 after last night, tied for 2nd with Orlando; only Dallas is better.

[Cashcleaner]

There's only one way to play.

"You play to win the game"!

i.e. Go for everything...Supporters Shield, MLS Cup, CCL Championship, Concacef Championship

GlenM

3 out of 4 of those competitions above are completely doable for TFC this season. Now travel back in time to even as early as 2014, and you've got a completely different outlook :D.

[PAOK17]

As much as I want to say the SS is more important than the MLS Cup, the reality is that it isn't. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be, just that the league puts more emphasis on the MLS Cup. This can be seen by how the MLS Cup is promoted more than the SS. Furthermore, teams plan around preparing for the Playoff games at the expense of going for the SS. Were we not in the running for the SS with 5-10 games to go? And yet we had squad rotation to keep players fresh for the playoffs. I remember dropping points to weaker opponents and cursing Vanney for playing Endoh down the stretch. As long as teams sacrifice regular season games to prepare for the playoffs, we can't say that the SS matters more. It's unfortunate, but true.

The one silver lining I will take is that the media and league at least put some value in the SS. I would say it's more than in the other NA sports. For example the media builds up Supporter Shield races. It's just not as emphasized as the MLS Cup.

[Kaz]

I can't remember if the 3-5-2 switch happened on July 2nd last year but that seems to be when it first appeared.

Since then we have played 29 regular season games if I have added right. In those games we have picked up 56 points. Lost just 4 games and averaged 1.9 PPG.

If we include the 6 playoffs games that is 4 wins 1 tie and 1 loss. Which is also about the 1.9PPG mark.

If TFC can maintain this form.. and it appears this is the new normal.... at least for now. We should finish the season between 61 and 68 points (64.6 is the average) (allowing for a slump or a second strong spell)

That is right in the range of every Support Shield team since the season became 34 games.

Orlando, FC Dallas SKC and Houston however are all in good form so far with 3 of the 4 at or above 1.9 PPG.
It is a long season so we will see we should actually be making a very serious run for it sadly we likely aren't going to be running away from the pack this year.

Just some food for thought.

[105]

Updated!

[Oldtimer]

The US and Canada are slowly developing the infrastructure of local teams that will eventually allow for Pro Rel to exist - but we are talking 60 years from now for this to become sustainable and given that 60 years ago the biggest sports in the US were boxing and horse racing, I wouldn't want to make that bet.

Biggest sport in Germany until the 1970's? Gymnastics.

Biggest sport in France in the 1930's? Cycling (still pretty big).

Times change.

[Canary10]

The SS can't possibly be considered the League Championship because of the totally whacked out schedules in MLS (see for example TFC having two double gameweeks in a row). Let alone the fact that we don't play a balanced schedule.

It is a piece of silverware, so of course go for it, but it's not comparable to, say, the EPL league title.

[General Woolfe]

The news today of the injuries to Giovinco and Hagglund is a huge blow to us. I had a feeling when Vanney was talking about us having the best depth in MLS history it was going to come back and bite us, and so it came to pass.

Big Nick was having a great season and losing him for the year is a massive disappointment. However, at least we seem to have decent cover at the back and hopefully Moor will return to fill the void this weekend. Worst case scenario is it could mean a move to 4-4-2 though if Mavinga or Hernandez prove not up to the task.

Seba's projected three week absence is much more worrying. It seems the way things go with Séba we can expect those three weeks to turn out more likely to be five or six weeks. I really don't know if we can keep up the high standards we've set this season so far without or star player. In fact, injury aside, the entire situation around Giovinco this season has been worrying. He hasnt hit near the highs this season he has the previous two. I was hoping he was about to get a settled run and rediscover his form. But it wasn't to be. My fear is we seem to have alternated between Séba and Jozy having alternative standout performances. If one doesn't show the other has. Now we've lost one of them I fear we might struggle every other game unless Altidore can really step up his consistency and carry us through this spell. Whatever the case we need to hope that Giovinco is back and firing on all cylinders before the Gold Cup starts or were in real trouble. It's a good thing that we've enjoyed a great run of wins recently and have amassed a good lead in the standings as I fear we might be challenged in that regard in the weeks Séba is out

[General Woolfe]

The SS can't possibly be considered the League Championship because of the totally whacked out schedules in MLS (see for example TFC having two double gameweeks in a row). Let alone the fact that we don't play a balanced schedule.

It is a piece of silverware, so of course go for it, but it's not comparable to, say, the EPL league title.
I have to agree, although if the league were better organized it could easily become more meaningful.

As things stand we should be playing each side in our own conference home and away plus every side in the opposing conference once a year (5 home games, 5 away games, alternating on a year to year basis) Although not perfect it would at least bring greater parity to things instead of playing Columbus 3 times. I know that's only 30 games but this would increase with expansion and hopefully playoff games

[molenshtain]

Should be noted that much of this bad run of fixture congestion falls on the shoulders of our own FO. Each team is allowed to veto a certain number of dates/weekends to play on if they coincide with international fixtures. The last two years we've opted to take multiple bye weeks early in the year so as to play the fewest amount of games where our best players are unavailable. This usually just applies to Altidore and Bradley specifically.

Neither situation is totally ideal but i get why they make the choice they do.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Should be noted that much of this bad run of fixture congestion falls on the shoulders of our own FO. Each team is allowed to veto a certain number of dates/weekends to play on if they coincide with international fixtures. The last two years we've opted to take multiple bye weeks early in the year so as to play the fewest amount of games where our best players are unavailable. This usually just applies to Altidore and Bradley specifically.

Neither situation is totally ideal but i get why they make the choice they do.

I don't think it that bad. I mean, it gets this congested most years just at different times of the year. And then the team complains about it. Like every team. Meh.

The veto info is interesting as to how FO select and move dates around. Even making deals with other teams. It's no wonder our leagues schedules are so out of wack.

[Prof]

How about this to make the Supporters Shield more meaningful. Winner gets bye directly to two game MLS Cup Final. I know its a long time to be off, but if the playoffs can be compressed somehow it then gives a team a huge advantage and more teams would fight to be the overall season champs.

[Fort York Redcoat]

How about this to make the Supporters Shield more meaningful. Winner gets bye directly to two game MLS Cup Final. I know its a long time to be off, but if the playoffs can be compressed somehow it then gives a team a huge advantage and more teams would fight to be the overall season champs.

Biggest improvement to get peeps onside would be the Honour Guard for the winner the match after. I love it.

[105]

weekly update!

[105]

guaranteed to be at the top after this weeks set of games as well.

[Canary10]

How about this to make the Supporters Shield more meaningful. Winner gets bye directly to two game MLS Cup Final. I know its a long time to be off, but if the playoffs can be compressed somehow it then gives a team a huge advantage and more teams would fight to be the overall season champs.

I would like to see something like cups for winning each conference, with buys to the conference playoff final. Then a final between the east and west winners to determine the league champion. Something more like Major League Baseball.

[PopePouri]

Our unbeaten run will come to an end at some point but I hope not this weekend. Important time to put in some daylight before the international breaks.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'd rather see them make the shield as big of a deal as titles in Europe. It should be the main trophy for the league and then run the MLS Cup earlier, start it during the latter half of season and let it run after the season ends and let it become something like the FA Cup or Cope Del Ray. Then there would still be "playoff" matches after the regular season ended but the final wouldn't drag out to be in December.

[molenshtain]

The American's already have their version of the FA cup. It's one of the two or three oldest competitions in the world.

I know some people don't like the playoffs - it certainly has its drawbacks - but it's not like multiple leagues in Europe or anywhere else around the world don't use playoffs. Most of them just happen to do a worse version of what we have, but there you go. I fucking loved the playoffs last year. The two Montreal games were two of the best nights of my life. That wouldn't have happened without the playoffs.

I'd suggest that the winner of the cup and the winner of the supporters shield play each other in a one off at the beginning of the next season a la Community shield. Wouldn't mean much but it's a way for fans to settle stuff like this if they feel the need to.

[Section_105]

I'd suggest that the winner of the cup and the winner of the supporters shield play each other in a one off at the beginning of the next season a la Community shield. Wouldn't mean much but it's a way for fans to settle stuff like this if they feel the need to.

what happens when it's the same team? 2nd in shield race?

[Canary10]

The American's already have their version of the FA cup. It's one of the two or three oldest competitions in the world.

I know some people don't like the playoffs - it certainly has its drawbacks - but it's not like multiple leagues in Europe or anywhere else around the world don't use playoffs. Most of them just happen to do a worse version of what we have, but there you go. I fucking loved the playoffs last year. The two Montreal games were two of the best nights of my life. That wouldn't have happened without the playoffs.

I'd suggest that the winner of the cup and the winner of the supporters shield play each other in a one off at the beginning of the next season a la Community shield. Wouldn't mean much but it's a way for fans to settle stuff like this if they feel the need to.

There is a playoff going on right now in the Championship. Big reward - promotion to the Premier League.

[molenshtain]

what happens when it's the same team? 2nd in shield race?

I could see solid arguments for the runner up of either competition to play the game. Shield runner up would reward the second best team over the course of the season. Cup runner up would mean a rematch of the final and therefore likely more interest and higher ratings. I'd be fine with either. Very rarely do teams do the double in this league so it wouldn't be a reoccurring issue.

[Initial B]

Imagine the following scenario: TFC somehow manages to lose the Canadian Championships this year and the playoff. They then go on to win the Supporters Shield and MLS cup. Regardless, TFC would not be able to play in the 2018 CCL despite being the best team in the league. Would Garber make an amendment to allow a Canadian team to take an MLS spot if that team completes the league double?

[Dunkers]

Imagine the following scenario: TFC somehow manages to lose the Canadian Championships this year and the playoff. They then go on to win the Supporters Shield and MLS cup. Regardless, TFC would not be able to play in the 2018 CCL despite being the best team in the league. Would Garber make an amendment to allow a Canadian team to take an MLS spot if that team completes the league double?

No way, Garber will not give away a spot for an American team to play in the CCL to a Canadian Team (I think this is teams are appointed by the USSF and not the MLS, making it impossible as TFC is not part of the USSF). MLS want to win the CCL to prove to the Mexican teams it is legitimate and Garber I am sure would much prefer it to be an American team, that coupled with the fact that we already have 2 chances to qualify, via the 2017 Canadian Championship and a playoff with the winner because we did not get the birth for winning last year. How many chances does one team need? If we don't make it we only have ourselves to blame.

[fergiejr]

I don't think it that bad. I mean, it gets this congested most years just at different times of the year. And then the team complains about it. Like every team. Meh.

The veto info is interesting as to how FO select and move dates around. Even making deals with other teams. It's no wonder our leagues schedules are so out of wack.

And it's about to get more congested in 2018 when you factor in the CONCACAF schedule early in the year, meaning that we pick up games later in the year around this time - when we are trying to win the Canadian Championship again (Feb - May 2018).

[TFC1154ever]

I love the playoff system and it's not going anywhere. What I would like to see, and would maybe convert the none playoff believers is to cut it down from 6 in each division to 4 in each division makes the playoffs. Make it tougher like baseball. The last 2 years the conference winners haven't made the final. I would give them a reward for finishing 1st. I do this:
1st place in each conference go straight to the conference finals.
2nd plays the winner of the 3v4 in a two legged semi final
3 host 4 in a one game play in for the chance at playing 2.
This would also help cut the playoffs by a week, which as we saw in the finals, would do the northern teams a lot in terms of weather.

[OgtheDim]

They are not cutting the playoff teams.

Playoff games = $

If anything, they will increase the playoff amount up to 16 when the league gets to 32

[BelfastBoy]

In my view a supporters shield would be equal to an MLS Cup win, given this clubs struggles early in its history.

A botched call by ref could be the difference in a playoff game, despite a dominant season resulting in first place.

MLS playoffs are like a domestic cup competition after the league season is over. We all know they will never get rid of the playoff system. The Supporters Shield is even more significant as the league continues adding franchises.

[paul-collins]

I agree that we should be taking the Supporters' Shield seriously, but I'd like to offer my thought on playoffs:

The final should not be a single game.

A two game tie would minimize a team's ability to win the Cup without taking a shot.

Can you imagine if the Stanley Cup was awarded in a single game?

Put another way: I value the Conference Championship more than the Cup because it was the winner of a proper tie. I also think the Memorial Cup is fun but pointless - the league winners have already done the hard work. (That the host Windsor couldn't make it out of the 1st round and then get to win the Cup is point in case.)

[spe18]

I agree that we should be taking the Supporters' Shield seriously, but I'd like to offer my thought on playoffs:

The final should not be a single game.

A two game tie would minimize a team's ability to win the Cup without taking a shot.

Can you imagine if the Stanley Cup was awarded in a single game?

Put another way: I value the Conference Championship more than the Cup because it was the winner of a proper tie. I also think the Memorial Cup is fun but pointless - the league winners have already done the hard work. (That the host Windsor couldn't make it out of the 1st round and then get to win the Cup is point in case.)

Well, the world's greatest club competition, the UEFA Champions League, is decided in a 1 game final, after all the previous knockout rounds were decided by a two legged affair.

[Detroit_TFC]

Here's my dream league competition set up (zero chance of this happening):

Close expansion at 16 teams in two regional conferences. No inter-conference games. Conf championship is 1 vs (2 v 3). Conf champs play for league championship, in two legged final completed by end of November. New knock out trophy tournament played during season with first round random draw regardless of conference (giving opportunities to bench players to get some tournament time).

[Oldtimer]

@Dunkers, you are correct that the US CCL spots are awarded by the USSF, just like in England the UEFA CL spots are awarded by the FA. It's not MLS's decision. In fact, one CCL spot is awarded to the winner of the US Open Cup, which is available to all clubs, professional or amateur regardless of league. So a USL team could be one of the US teams in the CCL.

Canadian teams don't play in the USOC, and the USSF won't sanction a Canadian team through MLS. So the Supporters Shield is only significant to us for its own right.

[paul-collins]

Well, the world's greatest club competition, the UEFA Champions League, is decided in a 1 game final, after all the previous knockout rounds were decided by a two legged affair.
Just because they do it wrong doesn't mean we have to. ;)

[RealG-TFC]

Champions league final is in a neutral venue though. I think a two-legged final is really the way it ought to be.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I agree that we should be taking the Supporters' Shield seriously, but I'd like to offer my thought on playoffs:

The final should not be a single game.

A two game tie would minimize a team's ability to win the Cup without taking a shot.

Can you imagine if the Stanley Cup was awarded in a single game?

Put another way: I value the Conference Championship more than the Cup because it was the winner of a proper tie. I also think the Memorial Cup is fun but pointless - the league winners have already done the hard work. (That the host Windsor couldn't make it out of the 1st round and then get to win the Cup is point in case.)

Yes. I would actually watch a Stanley Cup Final match single game. More casuals would. Ever been to a Superbowl party not watching a single regular or playoff game leading up to it? Millions do.


Just because they do it wrong doesn't mean we have to. ;)

This I agree with regarding MANY topics. Well. One in particular.

[OgtheDim]

Banning Snow Cold & Winter would probably solve all this.

[reggie]

unfortunately in NA the regular season is considered the preseason for the almighty playoffs.

[David_Oliveira]

I've also been keeping track of this. I have slightly different stats:



TEAM
PTS


Toronto
70.43


Chicago
60.31


Sporting KC
58.08


FC Dallas
56.34


NYCFC
55.25


Atlanta
52.46


Orlando
50.19


Houston
48.98


LA Galaxy
48.17


Portland
48.17


Columbus
46.14


San Jose
46.14


Vancouver
45.33


Red Bull
44.63


Revolution
44.52


Seattle
43.31


Philadelphia
40.88


DC United
40.80


Montreal
40.80


Minnesota
34.81


Real Salt Lake
34.00


Colorado
28.33




I've based my stats off of home points per game and away points per game and used a simple equation for this (HPPG x 17) + (APPG x 17) to determine my final standings. I believe it gives a more accurate outlook

[flatpicker]

unfortunately in NA the regular season is considered the preseason for the almighty playoffs.

I don't look at it that way.
I prefer to see the regular season as something like the world cup group stage*.
And the playoffs are the knockout round.

* a very long group stage.

[C.Ronaldo]

Champions league final is in a neutral venue though. I think a two-legged final is really the way it ought to be.

home advantage gives the shield more meaning

[105]

standings tightened up, but still at the top.

[LingDeyo]

home advantage gives (http://book-of-ra-play.com) the shield more meaning
I don't believe that "home advantage" is such a big advantage.
Maybe a bit, no more no less.

[molenshtain]

Don't think we have an injury thread this year so I guess this is the catch all thread for the teams' prospects.

Ricketts out for a month. Gonna be a lot of Ben Spencer and Hamilton this month me thinks. It'll be interesting to see how those two handle the workload.

[GerMc]

I don't believe that "home advantage" is such a big advantage.
Maybe a bit, no more no less.

While we can debate the impact of home advantage for the team, I think that home advantage is a big advantage for us (meaning the supporters) as it means that if we make it all the way to MLS Cup (sorry, when we make it), it will be here at BMO Field. So way more of us will be able to be there in person!

And, in terms of the debate, it is a statistical fact that the home advantage is more meaningful in soccer/football than in any other sport (I read some academic work saying that is because home crowds do have an impact on the refs, and since the refs can have a greater impact on the game in soccer than in other sports, home advantage is bigger in soccer than other sports).

[105]

Still at the top, but Chicago nipping at our heals.

[Canary10]

Still at the top, but Chicago nipping at our heals.

Amazing what a turnaround they've had. They were the lost franchise just six months ago.

[molenshtain]

Still at the top, but Chicago nipping at our heals.

For now. I'm expecting a serious reversion to the mean for Chicago. They're not better than average anywhere other than CM. Teams will adapt.

[Canary10]

For now. I'm expecting a serious reversion to the mean for Chicago. They're not better than average anywhere other than CM. Teams will adapt.

Maybe but if Nikolic keeps scoring they'll be hanging around for a while.

[Detroit_TFC]

For now. I'm expecting a serious reversion to the mean for Chicago. They're not better than average anywhere other than CM. Teams will adapt.

May depend on how long Basti stays fit. I've been impressed with his work rate so far but I'm not sure how long he can go like that before getting some injury.

[Yohan]

Chicago also has very little depth esp in defence. And their GKs suck, though you don't need amazing GK to win in MLS

[105]

Chicago isn't going away

[OgtheDim]

Chicago's July is



Vancouver home

Portland away

NYC away

SKC away


wheras ours is


Dallas away

Orlando away

NYCFC away

Rapids home

NYCFC home



Lets see how this looks on August 1st

[ensco]

A year ago, July 1, Seattle were 5-9-2 and dead last in the west. Philly was second in the east.

It's a long season, there are always huge summer signings, and injuries will have a big impact. I dread what happened to Dallas last year - they led Supporters Shield wire to wire, but lost Diaz in October, and without him they went out to Seattle.

I wish Supporters Shield mattered, but it doesn't. I am more concerned with getting Gio going. Even if it means loosening up in the back and losing a couple of games. We need to play offensive formations and get guys forward to help him out.

[Joe Kool]

I wish Supporters Shield mattered, but it doesn't. I am more concerned with getting Gio going. Even if it means loosening up in the back and losing a couple of games. We need to play offensive formations and get guys forward to help him out.

I actually thought the last couple games they were trying to help Giovonco too much by making unnecessary passes to him instead of taking the better chances themselves or making a pass to another player in a better position.

[105]

Chicago keeps ripping it up at home.

[Initial B]

We'll see what they're made of the next three games. I don't think they're as good as their record says.

[Blindside16]

Chicago can't keep that pace. I think they drop points tonight. Portland is a tough place to pick up points.

[Areathrasher]

Chicago can't keep that pace. I think they drop points tonight. Portland is a tough place to pick up points.

Portland are decimated by injuries and GC absences.

[OgtheDim]

And Chicago lacks their midfield duo.

[denime]

Portland - Chicago 2-2

Chicago next 3 games are away, their away record is not that good

[Oldtimer]

So Chicago tied their match, ahead of TFC now only on goal differential. TFC still in a good place to win it all.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Vancouver doing us a favor and taking all 3 points from NYCFC. I know we're all super focused on Chicago right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if NYC were in the mix come the end of the season. Between that and the Chicago tie and our win it was a pretty decent night for results.

[Canary10]

That's a really good result for Chicago though. Portland is a tough place to get points. I'm impressed. Hopefully these away games start to take a toll on them.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Portland is a tough place to get points.

So is Orlando though.

[OgtheDim]

If we look at the standings in each conference, the difference between the top 5 and the bottom teams is away results. (LAG being the big weird exception this season)

If you can get a point in more then 50% of your way games, you are doing well. Which is why I think Chicago is a pretty good away team - points in 6 out of 9 away (we are 7 out of 10).

[Canary10]

So is Orlando though.

For sure. That was a really good three points for us. I thought Chicago would start to slide a little bit last night but they aren't showing signs yet.

[paul-collins]

FWIW, a quick glance at the remaining games, Chicago has 7 games left against teams that are currently ranked 11th or lower; we have 9.

We also have one more home game.

[Oldtimer]

I don't believe that "home advantage" is such a big advantage.
Maybe a bit, no more no less.

That may feel reasonable, and is true in some leagues, but the statistics for MLS show otherwise, probably due to travel distances.
MLS teams on average win around half of their home games, but only 1/4 of their away games. That's a pretty big difference.

[General Woolfe]

Not sure if I have my dates right but it looks like we might lose Bradley & Atidore for the Gold Cup knockout phase which would leave us shorthanded for the trip to Yankee stadium on the 19th and the visit of Colorado on the 22nd

[Blindside16]

Not sure if I have my dates right but it looks like we might lose Bradley & Atidore for the Gold Cup knockout phase which would leave us shorthanded for the trip to Yankee stadium on the 19th and the visit of Colorado on the 22nd

You are correct with your dates. From the looks of things we will probably be without Ricketts, Osorio and Edwards as well as Canada is almost certain to advance now. Cooper as well as it is hard to imagine Panama not advancing.

[James17930]

You are correct with your dates. From the looks of things we will probably be without Ricketts, Osorio and Edwards as well as Canada is almost certain to advance now. Cooper as well as it is hard to imagine Panama not advancing.

Yup - time for more of that 'depth-testing'.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

From the looks of things we will probably be without Ricketts, Osorio and Edwards as well as Canada is almost certain to advance now.

Except the game last night is going to go from 0-0 to a 3-0 Honduras win (for French Guiana fielding an ineligible player) which changes the complexion of the group a lot. Not saying Canada can't still advance but it's not as cut and dried as it looks. Either way that NYCFC game should see an interesting lineup.

[Blindside16]

Except the game last night is going to go from 0-0 to a 3-0 Honduras win (for French Guiana fielding an ineligible player) which changes the complexion of the group a lot. Not saying Canada can't still advance but it's not as cut and dried as it looks. Either way that NYCFC game should see an interesting lineup.

Even with that possibility the 2 best 3rd place teams advance and with Canada sitting on 4 points it is hard to imagine them not advancing.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So we should prolly start mentioning Dallas in this thread as well now. 2 games in hand and they would be even with us. Chicago with that game in hand now could pull ahead.

Not trying to sound Debby Downer. Just keeping up with the moving parts.:scarf:

[UpTheReds]

July was also going to be tricky to navigate with the Gold Cup. Add the unforeseen injuries to Hagglund and Beitashour to the mix and it was always going to be difficult. The fact we are still top of the league is ace! If we can beat NYCFC at home and head into August still top with our full squad I am fully confident we will win it. Even if we slip up and are still right there, with the games we have coming up we should rack up the points. I think we are in great position heading into the run in.

[105]

Updated.

Looks like a four horse race between Toronto/Chicago/NY/Dallas.

[leafsman]

The only reason I would like to win it is that it guarantees that we can host the final if we make it there.

[105]

Good week for TFC. TFC win, CHI/NYC/DAL all lose.

[Yohan]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/07/30/butler-once-again-toronto-prove-theyre-still-team-beat

[105]

Things tighten up again, but I still like our chances.

[Canary10]

Things tighten up again, but I still like our chances.The game against Chicago next week is looming.

[Oldtimer]

The game against Chicago next week is looming.

That one match may decide it after TFC did so poorly at DC. It's an away match and Chicago, like TFC has not lost at home all year.

[105]

Updated.

Looks like NYC is the new challenger.

[105]

TFC remaining schedule:
Away (5): CHI, MON, LAG, NE, ATL
Home (5): PHI, SJ, MON, NYRB, MON

NYC remaining schedule:
Away (5): NYRB, COL, MON, CHI, NE
Home (5): NE, KC, POR, HOU, CLB

CHI remaining schedule:
Away (5): MON, MON, PHI, SJ, HOU
Home (6): TOR, MIN, NYRB, DC, NYC, PHI

[Canary10]

Not sure the schedule gives anyone a particular advantage. If anyone, Chicago probably has the easiest schedule. Sucks that we have Montreal three times though, considering how tough they always play us. If we win half our final ten games we're on 62 which would have been enough to win the Supporters Shield last year.

[Yohan]

Not sure the schedule gives anyone a particular advantage. If anyone, Chicago probably has the easiest schedule. Sucks that we have Montreal three times though, considering how tough they always play us. If we win half our final ten games we're on 62 which would have been enough to win the Supporters Shield last year.

Impact can try. They may get a win here and there vs TFC, but esp at BMO Field, they suck vs TFC. Impact don't have enough quality and too many questions to be more than mere borderline playoff team, if that.

[Canary10]

Impact can try. They may get a win here and there vs TFC, but esp at BMO Field, they suck vs TFC. Impact don't have enough quality and too many questions to be more than mere borderline playoff team, if that.

While I think that's true, these are always going to be tough games, even if we were first and they were last (which is practically what it is).

[molenshtain]

Impact can try. They may get a win here and there vs TFC, but esp at BMO Field, they suck vs TFC. Impact don't have enough quality and too many questions to be more than mere borderline playoff team, if that.
Those three games will be even tougher knowing we'll spend at least some portion of one game down a man after someone tries to break Fisher's leg.

[Canary10]

^ Seriously.

[TFC1154ever]

I hoping for a tie in the Chicago Montreal game. I obviously don't want the taber nac in the playoffs cause I hate them, but I must admit, every time we play them in big games, they're always tight, and crazy. I would just rather avoid them if possible in the playoffs, and play Columbus or Orlando. We also play them 3 times, so we can end there chances ourselfs :)

[OgtheDim]

My money would be on Delgado or Osorio with the memory reminder yellow card foul.

Most of the midfield has a yellow to give but not Seba or Jozy.

[magmadragon]

Looks like it will be a 6 horse race until closer to the end. Obviously depends on results but besides us, NYC, and CHI, there is also NYRB, ATL, and DAL that can make a run with their games in hand. ATL in particular has a lot of home games left.

[105]

Looks like NYC is the only team left that can realistically catch TFC. The most interesting question is if TFC can catch the Galaxy for most points in an MLS season (68). LA did it in 32 games though.

[flatpicker]

Looks like NYC is the only team left that can realistically catch TFC. The most interesting question is if TFC can catch the Galaxy for most points in an MLS season (68). LA did it in 32 games though.

Well, then they just need to win 6 of their next 7 to tie with LA in a 32 game stretch.
Not impossible.

But let's be honest, MLS was a different type of league in '98
A lot more shit teams, I'm sure.

[Initial B]

But let's be honest, MLS was a different type of league in '98
A lot more shit teams, I'm sure.
The other thing to remember is that they didn't have ties - games were resolved by the shootout method. I'd love to see TFC end the season on an unbeaten run.

[flatpicker]

The other thing to remember is that they didn't have ties - games were resolved by the shootout method. I'd love to see TFC end the season on an unbeaten run.

I forgot about the shootouts.
Just checked... they had 2 shootout wins.
And LA lost 8 times during those 32 games.
TFC has only lost 3 times so far.

[Canary10]

Why does it feel like that NYCFC result was fixed? Or was it just that New England sucks?

[OgtheDim]

Why does it feel like that NYCFC result was fixed? Or was it just that New England sucks?

NER sucks. They had 4 CD's along the back, which is fine if everything is coming at you up the middle. Caused them major issues in the end as they didn't hold their line high enough.

[Oldtimer]

Why does it feel like that NYCFC result was fixed? Or was it just that New England sucks?

You don't need to fix a match to make the Revs lose.

[BelfastBoy]

Sounds like Vieira has already conceded the Shield to TFC.

[Redpunkfiddle]

Sounds like Vieira has already conceded the Shield to TFC.

I think mind games.

[Canary10]

You don't need to fix a match to make the Revs lose.

I know. It was just so damn predictable it was annoying.

[Bobo]

We're catching the Limp Act at the wrong time. They're on fire (and were all over the Fire) at the moment. Would be almost poetic if they have a say in the outcome of the race.

[Blindside16]

We're catching the Limp Act at the wrong time. They're on fire (and were all over the Fire) at the moment. Would be almost poetic if they have a say in the outcome of the race.

The Fire have a bunch of issues right now so I take their game against them with a grain of salt. I am uncertain if it is the entire Limp Act team that is on fire or just Piatti. He has been borderline unplayable the last few games. Their backline is prone to being exposed and we will have plenty of chances to unlock them and the boys will want the win for Beita.

[molenshtain]

The Fire have a bunch of issues right now so I take their game against them with a grain of salt. I am uncertain if it is the entire Limp Act team that is on fire or just Piatti. He has been borderline unplayable the last few games. Their backline is prone to being exposed and we will have plenty of chances to unlock them and the boys will want the win for Beita.

They're all on fire. They replaced two liabilities in Midfield in Donadel and Bernardello and replaced them with Piette and Dzemailli, who've been almost perfect so far. A front 5 of Piette, Bernier, Dzemailli, Piatti, Tabla and Mancosu kinda scares me. Not to mention they can bring Oduro and Jackson Hamel coming off the bench.

Their defense usually goes the way their offence does. It's still the same back four that shit the bed last year, plus a new keeper who's worse than Bush. Montreal can be had, easily even, but we gotta bring our best and be opportunistic. gotta score first and stay organized. Otherwise we'll ship goals.

[OgtheDim]

My only concern about our defence is Mavinga getting caught upfield is going to bite us at some point against a fast break team.

[molenshtain]

Hagglund did the same thing when he was starting. I think it's an instruction for whoever plays LCB to roam and help press knowing we have an extra man or two behind him.

That or Hagglund and Mavinga are our two least disciplined CB's.

[MKR]

i'm curious if there is going to be a shift in perception of the supporter's shield. especially with the players. most (or many) of the players on our team have been raised in a football culture where winning the league was seen as the top prize. Definitely more than winning a cup (a tournament format like the playoffs).

I haven't seen other teams' reactions to winning the supporter's shield in the past, but i wonder how the players have reacted. and i wonder if maybe there might be a gradual shift to the point where winning the MLS league might at some point equal or surpass the MLS cup. It's how it is pretty much everywhere else in the world.

[molenshtain]

Well the players seemed pretty happy about winning the Canadian Cup so I doubt they would be without enthusiasm should we win the SS.

I also think this whole thing about players programmed to think winning a league is the be all and end all. It glosses over the whole Champions League thing.

The Shield is something nice for the fans. The Cup is the be all and end all. Always will be. It's NA sports culture.

[TFC Tifoso]

read a quote from Bradley after the last home game (paraphrasing), "Our objective this year is to win every trophy possible...leave nothing to doubt."

V's Cup, Supportrers' Shield, East Champ, MLS Champ.....this team is on a mission...they want it all.....

[Canary10]

It's also the unbalanced schedule and the crazy MLS scheduling that make the SS not a fair representation of who wins the league. The playoff format is better imo, although still not ideal.

[Yohan]

i'm curious if there is going to be a shift in perception of the supporter's shield. especially with the players. most (or many) of the players on our team have been raised in a football culture where winning the league was seen as the top prize. Definitely more than winning a cup (a tournament format like the playoffs).

I haven't seen other teams' reactions to winning the supporter's shield in the past, but i wonder how the players have reacted. and i wonder if maybe there might be a gradual shift to the point where winning the MLS league might at some point equal or surpass the MLS cup. It's how it is pretty much everywhere else in the world.
It's a big deal to at least certain segment of MLS supporters. MLS Cup is the king, but SS and US Open Cup is still worth something.

[pdubs]

It's also the unbalanced schedule and the crazy MLS scheduling that make the SS not a fair representation of who wins the league. The playoff format is better imo, although still not ideal.

Yep this is my biggest issue with SS. Forget Pro/Rel talks how about the league figures out a balanced schedule. I know travel is a major issue but would like to see a change. I guess the salary cap and general parity between the cubs in theory mitigates this it,
but it's not the same as knowing you face every team home and away.

Hopefully once league expansion stops the schedule will transition into an even one.

[Yohan]

Yep this is my biggest issue with SS. Forget Pro/Rel talks how about the league figures out a balanced schedule. I know travel is a major issue but would like to see a change. I guess the salary cap and general parity between the cubs in theory mitigates this it,
but it's not the same as knowing you face every team home and away.

Hopefully once league expansion stops the schedule will transition into an even one.
Due to the weather, the league is stuck on Mar to Oct regular season and Nov to mid Dec playoffs. With expansion, I see league leaning more towards playing teams in the conference once every 2 years from current once a year format in the future.

[105]

Question is, what's the plan when they get to 30-32 teams. Hard to put together a 34 game schedule with that many teams in one league. I guess you'd have to do what the NFL does and play home/away against your own division, then you rotate between the other divisions every year.

I'd like to see a league controlled MLS 1 (16 teams) and MLS 2 (16 teams) with pro/rel between the two leagues only. Where even if you're in MLS 2, you'd still get all the revenue teams in 1 get. This would allow for a balanced schedule. But all is a long way off.

[JuliquE]

I'd like to see a league controlled MLS 1 (16 teams) and MLS 2 (16 teams) with pro/rel between the two leagues only. Where even if you're in MLS 2, you'd still get all the revenue teams in 1 get. This would allow for a balanced schedule. But all is a long way off.
You'd think this feasible, and what I hope is in the cards.

[OgtheDim]

I can't see any of the current owners being interested in playing in a second level of any sort.

[magmadragon]

It's also the unbalanced schedule and the crazy MLS scheduling that make the SS not a fair representation of who wins the league. The playoff format is better imo, although still not ideal.

Every time I see this brought up I can't help but think that one is not really more accurate than another. OK so we play home and away, but the outside variables won't ever match. Time of year, weather, time of day, potential injuries/who is available etc. You know what I mean? From a simulation standpoint, home and away doesn't make it more accurate in determining overall greatness over the course of a season. Especially since who the 'good' teams are change year to year in MLS. I mean look at LAG? Hell look at us now versus the majority of our history. I understand the reason for wanting a balanced schedule, but it still doesn't really sway me.

[flatpicker]

I'd like to see a league controlled MLS 1 (16 teams) and MLS 2 (16 teams) with pro/rel between the two leagues only. Where even if you're in MLS 2, you'd still get all the revenue teams in 1 get. This would allow for a balanced schedule. But all is a long way off.


I can't see any of the current owners being interested in playing in a second level of any sort.

I'd be happy if they split into two divisions of 16 (as mentioned),
however, arrange it more like baseball.
Have two separate balanced schedules
and the Cup would be between the two division winners.

The reason it likely would not happen is MLS wants to maximize the promotional opportunities.
Let's say LA was awesome and had big name stars, then the league would want LA to play in as many places as possible
rather than just the 16 teams in their division.

But my counter argument would be that the league has grown enough to succeed in that situation.

[105]

TFC's magic number to clinch the Supporters Shield is 19.

(combined points gained by TFC + points lost by NYC totaling 19)

[flatpicker]

TFC's magic number to clinch the Supporters Shield is 19.

(combined points gained by TFC + points lost by NYC totaling 19)

That sounds like math.

I'll just wait until someone tells me that the next game could clinch it.

[Canary10]

Well Chicago is well out of the race now. NYCFC is the only one with a chance and it's slim.

[Blindside16]

Well Chicago is well out of the race now. NYCFC is the only one with a chance and it's slim.

Chicago should be worried. They are closer to being out of the playoffs, than competing for the shield. The way they are going they might not get a home playoff game. If we can grab 3 points today we will be up 9 on NYCFC. I like that math.

[paul-collins]

Jesus, the standings. Other than NYcFC no one else is even in the league.

[Oldtimer]

Chicago should be worried. They are closer to being out of the playoffs, than competing for the shield. The way they are going they might not get a home playoff game. If we can grab 3 points today we will be up 9 on NYCFC. I like that math.

NYFC has one game in hand.

[105]

We are coming for the Galaxy.

[Steve]

Jesus, the standings. Other than NYcFC no one else is even in the league.

Here's the fun part of all this. Look at the difference between us and second place NYCFC (9 points). Now 9 points below NYCFC? You drop all the way to 9th in the league, tied with Vancouver Whitecaps.

Now here's the even better part. The point difference between us and 3rd place Columbus is 14 points. Who is 14 points under Columbus? DC United, 19th in the league. So the chances of 3rd place catching us at this point are the same as DC United catching Columbus. Oh, and NYCFC would have won the sheild with their current pace in 3 of the last 4 years.

[105]

That sounds like math.

I'll just wait until someone tells me that the next game could clinch it.

Basically, if TFC end the season 5-1-1, they clinch the SS, regardless of what NYC does.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Basically, if TFC end the season 5-1-1, they clinch the SS, regardless of what NYC does.

So we have 7 games left, and NYCFC has 8 games left, for any combination of us gaining points and them losing points to make it to a total of 16 at this point. I like those odds. I wouldn't be shocked if this team took care of it all on their own like you said with the 5-1-1.

[Cas87]

Our home games should be wins (SJ, MTL x2, NYRB)
Out to LA I would lean towards a Win as LAG is not what they use to be.
New England is always a strange place to play for TFC (plus Vanney better not have Jozy anywhere near that Pitch with his history) - I'd say one loss
Atlanta at the end of the season is a toss up - they are the only system that can cause us problems - draw.

5-1-1 is my final thought on this stretch as well. (But, may also be 4-1-2 with a draw against MTL in either of the 2 remaining games)

[105]

Hopefully we can clinch with a game or two left so we can rest some guys before the playoffs.

[fergiejr]

EASTERN CONFERENCE

PTS
GP
GR
Max
Playoffs?

Shield?



Toronto FC
56
27
7
77
Bye. Home Field Advantage



New York City FC
47
26
8
71
Bye. Home Field Advantage



Columbus Crew SC
42
28
6
60
Wildcard vs Atlanta United FC



Chicago Fire
41
26
8
65
Wildcard vs New York Red Bulls



New York Red Bulls
39
25
9
66
Wildcard @ Chicago Fire



Atlanta United FC
36
24
10
66
Wildcard @ Columbus Crew SC



Montreal Impact
36
25
9
63
HOPE



Philadelphia Union
31
27
7
52
HOPE
NO Chance


Orlando City SC
31
26
8
55
HOPE
NO Chance


New England Revolution
29
25
9
56
HOPE



D.C. United
28
27
7
49
HOPE
NO Chance











WESTERN CONFERENCE

PTS
GP
GR
Max
Playoffs?




Seattle Sounders FC
42
27
7
63
Bye. Home Field Advantage



Portland Timbers
41
28
6
59
Bye. Home Field Advantage



Sporting Kansas City
40
25
9
67
Wildcard vs San Jose Earthquakes



Vancouver Whitecaps FC
38
25
9
65
Wildcard vs Houston Dynamo



Houston Dynamo
38
26
8
62
Wildcard @ Vancouver Whitecaps FC



San Jose Earthquakes
36
27
7
57
Wildcard @ Sporting Kansas City



FC Dallas
36
25
9
63
HOPE



Real Salt Lake
35
28
6
53
HOPE
NO Chance


Minnesota United FC
25
25
9
52
HOPE
NO Chance


LA Galaxy
23
25
9
50
HOPE
NO Chance


Colorado Rapids
22
25
9
49
HOPE
NO Chance




Some fun with Excel. Playoff column is if the season ended today.

[MartinUtd]

I think the top 6 in the east are set, we just have to wait on the order. We'll beat Montreal twice more and even if we split those points, the game in hand and easier schedules for the other teams puts them at a disadvantage.

Here's the remaining schedule

Columbus, 42pts/6 games: SKC, Vancouver, NYRB, DCU, Orlando, NYCFC... 3 away

Chicago, 41pts/8 games: Montreal, NYRB, DCU, Philly, SJ, NYCFC, Philly, Houston... 4 away

New York Drink, 39pts/10 games: FCD, Chicago, Philly, SKC, Columbus, DCU, TFC, Vancouver, Atlanta, DCU... 6 away games

Atlanta, 36pts/10 games: FCD, Revs, Orlando, LAG, Montreal, Philly, Revs, Minnesota, NYRB, TFC... only 2 away

Montreal, 36pts/9 games: Chicago, Revs, Minnesota, TFC, Atlanta, NYCFC, Colorado, TFC, Revs... 5 away



Montreal look to have the hardest schedule there in both fixtures, and number of away games. I know anything can happen in MLS, but the odds are really stacked against them here.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Montreal look to have the hardest schedule there in both fixtures, and number of away games. I know anything can happen in MLS, but the odds are really stacked against them here.

True, but no other team has been playing as well as them lately either, including everyone above them (except for TFC of course). TFC's win ended a 4 game win streak for Montreal. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for them to miss the playoffs, and for us to play a hand in it, but I could easily see them catching teams above them if they keep playing like they have been lately. Hell if I was Chicago (5 losses, last 6 games) I'd be worried about them, and NYRB/Atlanta and their game in hands catching up.

[Yohan]

Columbus is another version of Chicago. Good attack, shaky defence

Atlanta looks shaky. Not very convincing vs Philly and lucky to get a draw. They also have lots of game in short amount of time.

[paul-collins]

It's also the unbalanced schedule and the crazy MLS scheduling that make the SS not a fair representation of who wins the league. The playoff format is better imo, although still not ideal.
Incidentally, our record against the West is 5-1-3 for a 2.0 points per game average.

We have beaten up on the West just as much as the East.

Unbalanced or no as far as fixtures are concerned, this team, should it win the SS, can rightfully claim that they were the best team in the league and the apologists for the West can go pound sand.

[Canary10]

Incidentally, our record against the West is 5-1-3 for a 2.0 points per game average.

We have beaten up on the West just as much as the East.

Unbalanced or no as far as fixtures are concerned, this team, should it win the SS, can rightfully claim that they were the best team in the league and the apologists for the West can go pound sand.

Lol. When you're this dominant I have to agree.

[Initial B]

Is it possible TFC could go undefeated the rest of the regular season? 5 wins and 2 ties would pretty much break most of the records for best MLS team ever. The games I'm most worried about right now are NER away and NYCFC at home.

[OgtheDim]

.....Atlanta looks shaky. Not very convincing vs Philly and lucky to get a draw. They also have lots of game in short amount of time.

Atlanta reminds me of us the last couple of seasons vis a vis the whole "oh they'll start rocketing up once they start playing at home" thing.

[Joe Kool]

Anyone know at what point in the season teams start to clinch playoff spots? We have to be almost there by now. I guess we are still a couple games away.

[OgtheDim]

Anyone know at what point in the season teams start to clinch playoff spots? We have to be almost there by now. I guess we are still a couple games away.

Somebody posted somewhere that in 1 out of over 400K scenarios, we don't make the playoffs. Basically, we will have officially made it as of Saturday.

[paul-collins]

Magic numbers:

8 points - clinch (We are 20 points clear of Montreal who have possible 27 points available)
10 points - avoid play down (15 points clear, 24 points available to Chicago)
11 points - home advantage semi (tie - 20 points clear and 30 points available to Atlanta; 17 points clear and 27 points available to NYRB)
16 points - Conference / SS (9 points clear, 24 points available to NYCFC)

(edit: KGH is correct, first clinch is 5 points, because Columbus has played 3 games more than Montreal and so could drop out - 14 clear but 18 available)

[KGH]

Ours is actually 5 pts to clinch a playoff spot. Columbus can only hit 60 max. Although they're currently in 3rd they've played 28 games. They would be the 5th team that we would mathematically finish ahead of (max possible points DC 49, PHI 52, ORL 55, NE 56) securing a playoff spot.

[KGH]

But can we take a moment and recognize this discussion we're having. We're talking about when can we be the first team to clinch a playoff spot.

And the title of this thread is Supporters shield race and we're talking about how many points for US to clinch it.

Let's make sure we enjoy this ride while we can.

[fergiejr]

MTL can hit Max of 63, which is more than Columbus. So that's 7 points (?)




EASTERN CONFERENCE

PTS

GP

GR
Max



Toronto FC

56
27
7
77


New York City FC

47
26
8
71


Columbus Crew SC

42
28
6
60


Chicago Fire

41
26
8
65


New York Red Bulls

39
25
9
66



Atlanta United FC

36

24
10
66



Montreal Impact

36

25

9

63



Philadelphia Union

31
27
7
52


Orlando City SC

31
26
8
55


New England Revolution

29
25
9
56


D.C. United

28
27
7
49

[Detroit_TFC]

Is it possible TFC could go undefeated the rest of the regular season? 5 wins and 2 ties would pretty much break most of the records for best MLS team ever. The games I'm most worried about right now are NER away and NYCFC at home.

I'd expect now opponents will start playing more behind the ball, playing for draws. The wins may be hard to come by.

If TFC can get points in NER where it's been so difficult, that would be quite an achievement.

[fergiejr]

Atlanta and the 2x Montreal games will be open affairs - both will need the win to keep in the playoff race and Montreal especially will try to punish us at home. San Jose might play for the tie, and LAG may not even show up. NER will try to ruin things for us.

[Still Kicking]

So if 16 points is what it takes to clinch the SS, it will take a 5 game winning streak prior to meeting Montreal the second time in Toronto in order for that game to be possibly the one for the Shield?
Would two losses or two ties in the next 6 games (plus NYCFC going on a streak of wins) mean that TFC will travel to Atlanta needing points?
Don't want to jinx anything, but the perfect end to the season imho will be lifting the shield after beating Montreal and travelling to Atlanta with a chance to rest players and play the bench.....

[molenshtain]

What's the earliest a team has clinched the shield?

[Ben - D.O.W.]

So if 16 points is what it takes to clinch the SS, it will take a 5 game winning streak prior to meeting Montreal the second time in Toronto in order for that game to be possibly the one for the Shield?
Would two losses or two ties in the next 6 games (plus NYCFC going on a streak of wins) mean that TFC will travel to Atlanta needing points?
Don't want to jinx anything, but the perfect end to the season imho will be lifting the shield after beating Montreal and travelling to Atlanta with a chance to rest players and play the bench.....

16 points is a combination of us gaining, and NYCFC losing, so it could come much sooner than the Montreal game (or not, don't want to get ahead of things).

A 2 point/game pace is considered pretty exceptional in MLS - if NYCFC can keep that pace for the last 8 games they have that still means they're dropping 8 points over the remainder of the season. I'd love to see us set before that last Montreal game

[Detroit_TFC]

I'll be in Manchester the weekend of October 15, so just to aggravate me, the SS lift will happen at the game vs Mtl. hashtag all about me :)

[KGH]

MTL can hit Max of 63, which is more than Columbus. So that's 7 points (?)




EASTERN CONFERENCE

PTS

GP

GR
Max



Toronto FC

56
27
7
77


New York City FC

47
26
8
71


Columbus Crew SC

42
28
6
60


Chicago Fire

41
26
8
65


New York Red Bulls

39
25
9
66



Atlanta United FC

36

24
10
66



Montreal Impact

36

25

9

63



Philadelphia Union

31
27
7
52


Orlando City SC

31
26
8
55


New England Revolution

29
25
9
56


D.C. United

28
27
7
49



Forget current table position for a second. We only have to finish above 5 teams (top 6 make the playoffs). In order to clinch a playoff spot our points have to be more than the team in 7th could possibly get. So looking at the max possible points above we already have more than PHI, ORL, or DC could get if he managed to win every game remaining for them.

That next lowest is NE who would have to win out to get 56 which is what we currently have. So our magic number to finish above NE is 1. Unfortunately finishing only above NE doesn't get us in to the playoffs. So we have to look at the next lowest max points.

Although they're currently in 3rd Columbus has played more games than anyone so their max is 60. If we can finish above them then we're in the playoffs. So our magic number is 5 to get us to 61 (I think first tie breaker is head to head so we could theoretically finish with 60 and still finish above them). Once we have 61 then it is impossible for us to finish lower than 6th.

Therefore our magic number is 5.

[Red CB Toronto]

I'll be in Manchester the weekend of October 15, so just to aggravate me, the SS lift will happen at the game vs Mtl. hashtag all about me :)
Well I will be in Manchester and London the week, thus missing Red Bulls home game. Seeing Man City in their first Champions League group stage home game among others.

[paul-collins]

Forget current table position for a second. We only have to finish above 5 teams (top 6 make the playoffs). In order to clinch a playoff spot our points have to be more than the team in 7th could possibly get.

<snip>

Although they're currently in 3rd Columbus has played more games than anyone so their max is 60. If we can finish above them then we're in the playoffs. So our magic number is 5 to get us to 61 (I think first tie breaker is head to head so we could theoretically finish with 60 and still finish above them). Once we have 61 then it is impossible for us to finish lower than 6th.

Therefore our magic number is 5.
Yes your logic is correct. I used the same logic for all the other magic numbers but did not for this one because I hadn't noticed the 28 games played by Columbus...

[Graeme]

Forget current table position for a second. We only have to finish above 5 teams (top 6 make the playoffs). In order to clinch a playoff spot our points have to be more than the team in 7th could possibly get. So looking at the max possible points above we already have more than PHI, ORL, or DC could get if he managed to win every game remaining for them. Therefore our magic number is 5.

I'm not sure it's quite so simple, as the teams in question play each other--maximum points for all teams is impossible.

This link: http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html has TFC with no chance of missing the playoffs with 2 more points (0-2-5 in our final games).

[fergiejr]

Therefore our magic number is 5.

Cool. So if I get this right, if Columbus loses on 9/9 and we beat San Jose, then we're in?

[fergiejr]

I'm not sure it's quite so simple, as the teams in question play each other--maximum points for all teams is impossible.

This link: http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html has TFC with no chance of missing the playoffs with 2 more points (0-2-5 in our final games).

You actually have to go up to 60pts to find a 0% chance. That's 4 points.
With 58 points, there's a 4% chance we end up in 7th. Slim, but a chance.

[Graeme]

You actually have to go up to 60pts to find a 0% chance. That's 4 points.
With 58 points, there's a 4% chance we end up in 7th. Slim, but a chance.

I don't see that in the chart. With 58 points, it's a 4% chance we end up in 4th.

[fergiejr]

I don't see that in the chart. With 58 points, it's a 4% chance we end up in 4th.

That first chart, yes. The last chart says something different, which is what I was referencing. Not sure what the difference is. Looks like it's draft seed.

[KGH]

Cool. So if I get this right, if Columbus loses on 9/9 and we beat San Jose, then we're in?

He's an even more fun scenario....

Montreal plays on the 2nd. If they lose to chicago their Max drops to 60 same as CBUS.

On the 9th:
We beat SJ - We go to 59


Then all we need is one of the following to clinch:
CLB loses to SKC - Their max goes to 57
Mtl loses to NE - Their max goes to 57

At the end of the day if we keep winning then we don't have to watch what else is happening. It's too bad that we have the first game on the 9th. It will be fun to get back to a bar to MTL v NE at 7:30 to root for NE to win to seal our playoff spot.

[StokeciTFC]

That first chart, yes. The last chart says something different, which is what I was referencing. Not sure what the difference is. Looks like it's draft seed.

those columns in the second chart are all snafu'd by the looks of it. The column for 3rd place should be for 2nd and a couple more are misplaced.

[Graeme]

those columns in the second chart are all snafu'd by the looks of it. The column for 3rd place should be for 2nd and a couple more are misplaced.

I think it is because of the East/West divisions. At a certain point, only NYCFC can catch us, so they get 1st, we get 3rd and someone from the West gets 2nd.

The first chart is for playoffs in our division (only 11 postions), the last is the race for the supporters shield (22 positions).

[paul-collins]

I think it is because of the East/West divisions. At a certain point, only NYCFC can catch us, so they get 1st, we get 3rd and someone from the West gets 2nd.

The first chart is for playoffs in our division (only 11 postions), the last is the race for the supporters shield (22 positions).
Yes, I think this is right - there is a minor chance we end up 2nd only because in order for that to happen the West has to catch us *and* NYCFC have to not catch us, so we are still 1st in the east.

The last chart is actually for draft lottery seeding.

[KGH]

He's an even more fun scenario....

Montreal plays on the 2nd. If they lose to chicago their Max drops to 60 same as CBUS.

On the 9th:
We beat SJ - We go to 59


Then all we need is one of the following to clinch:
CLB loses to SKC - Their max goes to 57
Mtl loses to NE - Their max goes to 57

At the end of the day if we keep winning then we don't have to watch what else is happening. It's too bad that we have the first game on the 9th. It will be fun to get back to a bar to MTL v NE at 7:30 to root for NE to win to seal our playoff spot.

So with the MTL loss tonight their max points drops to 60 same as CLB. So a TFC win and either a CLB or MTL loss next Saturday and we've clinched.

[paul-collins]

Also, we no longer have to get to the Chicago max to avoid the play down, with NYRB tying - their max drops to 64. So 9 points for that bar, between TFC and RB.

[Cuppy]

Looks as though David Villa suffered an injury away on international duty. With that the skies opened up and the heavens spoke

[OgtheDim]

DANG...was hoping to see him & Hassler be all "See, this is what we do in AMARYKA!"

[Oldtimer]

Looks as though David Villa suffered an injury away on international duty. With that the skies opened up and the heavens spoke

https://www.thescore.com/news/1364713/amp

[PizzaEatingYeti]

https://www.thescore.com/news/1364713/amp
WOW, lol... how the heck he suffered any injury, having only a 2-3 minute total run-out at the end of the game...
He touched the ball once or twice.

Anyways will be for sure healthy for the match with TFC, because it says that it's a minor injury.

[flatpicker]

WOW, lol... how the heck he suffered any injury, having only a 2-3 minute total run-out at the end of the game...
He touched the ball once or twice.

Anyways will be for sure healthy for the match with TFC, because it says that it's a minor injury.

Could easily have been something that happened in training.
But yeah, doesn't sound serious.

[anto7]

Could easily have been something that happened in training.
But yeah, doesn't sound serious.

It did occur during training

[Oldtimer]

Villa out. NYCFC could lose their next match.

https://www.nycfc.com/post/2017/09/05/injury-report-villa-misses-kc-clash

[German21]

Villa out. NYCFC could lose their next match.

https://www.nycfc.com/post/2017/09/05/injury-report-villa-misses-kc-clash

sadly they didnt. So does that make the magic number 19 now?

[Oldtimer]

sadly they didnt. So does that make the magic number 19 now?

No, it remains at 16. If TFC gets to 72 points NYFC can't possibly catch TFC, even if they win 100% of their remaining games.

[OgtheDim]

Feels weird to be in a European style win every game sort of race.

[Red CB Toronto]

Feels weird to be in a European style win every game sort of race.

Yep, especially with two against their biggest rival in the L'impact, who regardless of where they are in the standings will want to rock the Reds boat.

[Hamilton_Red]

Is my math right saying that we can win the Supporters Shield at home vs Montreal if we beat LA and NYC loses away to Colorado? More likely to win it away at New England needing 9 points to seal it?

[OgtheDim]

We need 10 points either gotten by us or dropped by NYC.

Not possible until Sept 23. We can't possibly do that ourselves until the home game against NYRB.

I would much rather we win the shield by virtue of a home win or draw then anything away. There will be a trophy ceremony after a game. The potential to lose a game at home and then get a trophy is just too old school TFC to contemplate.

[Canary10]

We need 10 points either gotten by us or dropped by NYC.

Not possible until Sept 23. We can't possibly do that ourselves until the home game against NYRB.

I would much rather we win the shield by virtue of a home win or draw then anything away. There will be a trophy ceremony after a game. The potential to lose a game at home and then get a trophy is just too old school TFC to contemplate.

Isn't goal differential the tie breaker? Really only need 9 if that's the case which would be Montreal.

[Globetrotter]

Magic number is 10, but could be 9 through tie breaker. At this stage of the game, you can't use tie breaker in a magic number situation - way too many variables to interfere. Magic number typically suggests you've moved past tie breaker... which means 10 is still our number.

We could clinch shield while on the field in NE, while the match is still on. If we beat LA and MTL, we gain 6 points.
If NYCFC lose in COL, and then in HOU on the Saturday, their game would finish around halftime of our NE game. In fact, they dont need to lose both, a loss and tie plus our 2 wins would equal those 10 points to give us our magic number.

Atlanta has 10 games left, 8 at home in their new stadium. Montreal is not making the playoffs... and Atlanta even finish as high as 4th (though a stretch to do it).

Here's a conservative outlook
Win in LA.
Tie home vs MTL
Lose in NE
Win home to NYRB
Win home MTL (this would land us at 69 points)
At Atlanta...who knows. I would be surprised about a tie or loss.

[Eastend]

Isn't goal differential the tie breaker? Really only need 9 if that's the case which would be Montreal.


AUDI 2017 MLS Cup PlayoffsQUALIFICATION: Twelve teams, the top six from each conference at the end of the regular season, qualify for the Audi 2017 MLS Cup Playoffs.
TEAM-STANDINGS TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES: The team awarded the highest position in the MLS standings will be the team with the greatest number of points (three points for a win, one point for a tie, zero points for a loss). In the event that two teams finish the regular season with an equal number of points, the following system will be used to break the tie:


Total number of wins
Goal Differential (GD)
Goals For (GF)
Fewest Disciplinary Points*
Away Goals Differential
Away Goal For
Home Goals Differential
Home Goal For
Coin Toss (tie of 2 clubs) or Drawing of Lots (tie of 3 or more clubs)

[ensco]

We are winning it in a walk. Not even worth discussing anymore, other than to say: how do you stay sharp when you clinch the league with 3 games to go?

Funny, Seba getting a tweak again yesterday made me wonder (KNOCK ON WOOD) if we wouldn't, hypothetically, be better off playing the MLS Cup on the road instead of here Toronto?

The conditions here neutralized him.

(Stretching for things to worry about, I guess!)

[ensco]

Actually, there'll still be business to do - we still gotta put Montreal out. Let's ship TFC2 wholesale to that Atlanta game.

[Canary10]

We are winning it in a walk. Not even worth discussing anymore, other than to say: how do you stay sharp when you clinch the league with 3 games to go?

Funny, Seba getting a tweak again yesterday made me wonder (KNOCK ON WOOD) if we wouldn't, hypothetically, be better off playing the MLS Cup on the road instead of here Toronto?

The conditions here neutralized him.

(Stretching for things to worry about, I guess!)

In fairness the discussion now is which game do we officially clinch it. Not if.

[ensco]

In fairness the discussion now is which game do we officially clinch it. Not if.

You are right, no offence intended.

Btw Vancouver is coming on in the west, would love to see them here in December. Partly because that would make the league office insane.

[Initial B]

According to FiveThirtyEight, TFC now has a 99% chance of winning the Supporter's Shield. Is that too high?

[Kaz]

According to FiveThirtyEight, TFC now has a 99% chance of winning the Supporter's Shield. Is that too high?


Currently there are 9 teams that can still catch us theoretically

NYCFC 9 pts back (18 points possible) (68 max)
Fire 14pts back (18) (63)
NYRB 18 (21) (62)
Atlanta 20 (27) (66)

Portland 15(15) (59)
Seattle 17 (21) (63)
VWFC 18 (24) (65)
SKC 18 (21) (62)
Houston 21(21) (59)

If all those teams win every single game between now and the end of the season.

We need to get single point to knock out Houston and Portland
5-6 SKC,Seattle, NYRB, and the Fire
7 leaves only Atlanta and NYCFC assuming their records allow at that point

3 wins and a tie in our last 6 basically clinches the Supporter shield even if every other team wins all their remaining games as that takes us to 69 points

99% pretty much seems about right.

The earliest we can clinch the Supporter shield Would be either the 20th or 23rd. If we beat LA on the 16th and Montreal on the 20th with Colorado beating NYFC and New England or Orlando split the points or beating Atlanta on the 13th or 16th we would have 65 points and no other team could get more than that. Unofficially at that point we will have clinched we would then need at least one point on the 23rd to do so officially. If we win the next 3 games extending a winning streak to 8 and NYCFC drop any points then we would also clinch the SS

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Funny, Seba getting a tweak again yesterday made me wonder (KNOCK ON WOOD) if we wouldn't, hypothetically, be better off playing the MLS Cup on the road instead of here Toronto?

The conditions here neutralized him.

(Stretching for things to worry about, I guess!)

Easy solution.
Play it in the Skydome.
Put real grass in for the game.

[CBTFC]

Easy solution.
Play it in the Skydome.
Put real grass in for the game.

Do you realize how many people on this board you just triggered​!?!?

;) :P

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Do you realize how many people on this board you just triggered​!?!?

;) :P

Sure I realize it!

:D

[MartinUtd]

MLS has a nice break down of the records we're chasing

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/09/10/chasing-history-toronto-fc-pace-one-greatest-seasons-ever

[Detroit_TFC]

According to SportsStats site, even if TFC loses the remaining 6 games, still has 30% change of SS. That's sweet. Getting 2 W's probably does it.

[Hamilton_Red]

Going un defeated at home will be some accomplishment. That will be enough motivation to see us over the finish line. The most satisfying thing about this seaon is that I genuinely feel that TFC has raised the bar on the league. Not with three highly paid star DP's but in terms of squad depth and overall quality of the team. Teams that fail to respond will get left behind.

[Blindside16]

Going un defeated at home will be some accomplishment. That will be enough motivation to see us over the finish line. The most satisfying thing about this seaon is that I genuinely feel that TFC has raised the bar on the league. Not with three highly paid star DP's but in terms of squad depth and overall quality of the team. Teams that fail to respond will get left behind.

I agree completely. After all the years of frustration, heart break and disappointment, I almost can't believe I can type the following sentence. TFC has become the model on which all other teams will base themselves off.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Easy solution.
Play it in the Skydome.
Put real grass in for the game.

lol

No thanks

Let's play at home instead.

[MartinUtd]

Does anyone know when the Shield is presented?

Is it as soon as we clinch? First home game after we clinch? Last home game after we clinch? Last game? Some separate ceremony after the league is done?

[andyc]

I was at the Red Bulls home opener last year against TFC and they presented the shield from the previous season then. Not sure when they actually clinched it so they may not have had time to present at the end of the year...

[OgtheDim]

Traditionally, its either the game we clinch if at home or the next home game after, after the game. NYRB didn't because they were all "we don't take this that seriously" after all their playoff flops.

We, on the other hand, take this trophy seriously.

I still think the presentation happens one way shape or form after the NYRB game.