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View Full Version : Maybe Seba is just a little tired of MLS



jloome
04-16-2017, 11:21 PM
He plays the best football of his career outside the Parma loan and makes Italy instantly better... and he's not called up when it counts.

He puts up the statistically second-best season, after his own first, in MLS history... and he doesn't make the MVP top three, let alone win.

He gets relentlessly beaten into the ground by other defenders and not only don't refs call it, he gets labelled a flopper by other MLS teams' fans.

He turns thirty, has a second child, more responsibility.

Maybe he's just in a funk because he's doing all he can here and all he's getting for it is money. That may sound crazy when you consider how much money, but I think the guy is about more than that.

Maybe he just needs an extended hot streak, and potentially a tactical shift to accommodate how teams are playing now, i.e. giving him space to run at the back line, rather than a flat two up top where, when the outlet is pressured, he often finds himself receiving the ball back to goal or already closed down by two or three defenders.

Shakes McQueen
04-16-2017, 11:32 PM
Any time I'm inclined to start thinking like this, I try to remember that a few inches here or there on some of his agonizingly close shots, and this conversation largely is not happening. I mean, it could all be true, but he's earned more than a little benefit of the doubt.

I also haven't looked closely at what our opponents are doing to try and neutralize him, and how that has changed over the last couple of years.

PawTar711
04-16-2017, 11:56 PM
I think he's waiting for the rest of the team to step up to his level.

SirBobSaget
04-17-2017, 12:03 AM
Leading the line doesn't seem to work anymore, he is not getting the quick break chances. What about dropping to the midfield, hes always dangerous picking up the ball then driving at the defenders.

SirBobSaget
04-17-2017, 12:06 AM
I think he's waiting for the rest of the team to step up to his level.

So the team from 2 years ago that barely made the playoffs was more skilled?

ag futbol
04-17-2017, 12:34 AM
Any time I'm inclined to start thinking like this, I try to remember that a few inches here or there on some of his agonizingly close shots, and this conversation largely is not happening. I mean, it could all be true, but he's earned more than a little benefit of the doubt
Fair point.

Let's not forget last year around this time Altidore was an injury prone overpaid waste who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. (Yes, I was guilty of piling on that one too).

There was still a lot of criticism through a good portion of our late season run (much of it unjustifiable).

We sports fans can be a fickle bunch at times, as much as the team could be playing better currently.

Blindside16
04-17-2017, 12:51 AM
Fair point.

Let's not forget last year around this time Altidore was an injury prone overpaid waste who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. (Yes, I was guilty of piling on that one too).

There was still a lot of criticism through a good portion of our late season run (much of it unjustifiable).

We sports fans can be a fickle bunch at times, as much as the team could be playing better currently.

This!! I was also very guilty last year of piling on the dump Altidore bandwagon (for which I happily eat my words). If he buries that penalty against RSL, and goes 2 inches lower on that free kick against Atlanta, then I doubt we are having this conversation. Does he look like the Seba from 2 years ago no, should we claim the sky is falling... I think it is a little early for that. The entire squad has not looked comfortable together yet this year.

Derko
04-17-2017, 05:25 AM
This!! I was also very guilty last year of piling on the dump Altidore bandwagon (for which I happily eat my words). If he buries that penalty against RSL, and goes 2 inches lower on that free kick against Atlanta, then I doubt we are having this conversation. Does he look like the Seba from 2 years ago no, should we claim the sky is falling... I think it is a little early for that. The entire squad has not looked comfortable together yet this year.

This is so true, and more importantly General Bradley is looking almost inept ala JDG of a few years back, always playing back passes and rarely going forward, no more charges forward dribbling the ball, and that is the boring recycling possession and then eventually backing up too far and getting into trouble and losing possession. Now this is just how I see is so far this year, but when your leader is always retreating!!!
Perhaps those with a keener eye for that "Attractive" Continental style of play can explain. I agree that the more possession you have the more likely you will not get scored on, but the point is to score more than the other team and win games. Remember that poll that TFC put out a number of years ago, would you rather see more "Attractive" football with fewer results, not for me, winning ugly games gets you up the table and makes it harder for other teams to win. Just my thoughts on the lack of progress thus far, not time to panic but sooner rather than later the team will have to start gathering wins, in particular at home.

OgtheDim
04-17-2017, 06:11 AM
Seba celebrates enthusiastically and not selfishly whenever we score. Like every other striker in the league. Enuff for me.

ensco
04-17-2017, 07:01 AM
I don't think he's 100%.

C.Ronaldo
04-17-2017, 09:04 AM
the team needs to create the extra split second for him and we arent doing that.

Jozy will be taking on extra defenders as he starts to score at will. The space will be left for giovinco and vasquez (or AM) to clean up.

coach needs to figure out a diff system. I'm still not convinced on this wing back style without having two highly skilled wingers works day in day out

KGH
04-17-2017, 09:13 AM
I don't think he's 100%.

I agree. 2 years ago when he'd get the ball on the wing he was dangerous and he'd take defenders 1-1 or 1-2. So far this year defenders are keeping him in front of them. I don't believe the skill of defenders has increased that much. He just doesn't look dangerous like he did.

Ultra & Proud
04-17-2017, 09:29 AM
He is deservedly every teams primary focus defensively and they play him hard and with a lot of bodies. He has zero room and his confidence looks down at the moment because he has scuffed a good amount of decent chances that he knows he should have done better with. Him scoring will help but that won't happen with any kind of regularity unless someone else steps up and becomes a legit secondary threat. Then he will get space and better opportunities.

Also our style of play isn't helping either. Our build up is still way too slow and we're remaining content in having a bulk of the possession in the middle third and doing nothing with it. Last year when we went on our run we were playing with a pretty intense high press and killing off the turnovers and attacking with pace. This year we are pressing intermittently and it's not working great. I would be frustrated too if I were him.

Derko
04-17-2017, 10:43 AM
He is deservedly every teams primary focus defensively and they play him hard and with a lot of bodies. He has zero room and his confidence looks down at the moment because he has scuffed a good amount of decent chances that he knows he should have done better with. Him scoring will help but that won't happen with any kind of regularity unless someone else steps up and becomes a legit secondary threat. Then he will get space and better opportunities.

Also our style of play isn't helping either. Our build up is still way too slow and we're remaining content in having a bulk of the possession in the middle third and doing nothing with it. Last year when we went on our run we were playing with a pretty intense high press and killing off the turnovers and attacking with pace. This year we are pressing intermittently and it's not working great. I would be frustrated too if I were him.

The buildup is far too slow and predictable, there is also no more or very little urgency. I am not saying all out attack, but we seem to attack for 20-30 minutes, score a goal and then the defensive end of the midfield falls asleep and is complacent

Jack
04-17-2017, 11:10 AM
He really gets nothing from the referees, either. He gets hammered a lot.

PawTar711
04-17-2017, 02:07 PM
well last year, we went to the finals?

Red4ever
04-17-2017, 04:24 PM
This is silly and speculative.

Until he says "I'm tired" I don't care.

69Chevy396
04-20-2017, 02:16 PM
Seba was rarely used as a forward in Serie A, and seldom took free kicks. He stepped into this role in the much weaker MLS, and did remarkably well. But, he is 30. I think his slowing down was inevitable, compounded by MLS defenders and managers, improving their tactics. I think the manager needs to move him behind Altidore, where he can best utilize his talents. In addition, Seba should not be taking free kicks. He is not scoring, and each miss seems to remove a piece of his confidence.

greatwhitenorf
04-21-2017, 04:17 PM
A wise GM knows that it's always better to shed a player a year too soon than a year too late. He's your basic 1.2 litre-powered turbocharged sports car. Bound to break down sooner than later.

If he's not ticking boxes, then he's ticking away time.

ExiledRed
04-21-2017, 08:31 PM
A wise GM knows that it's always better to shed a player a year too soon than a year too late. He's your basic 1.2 litre-powered turbocharged sports car. Bound to break down sooner than later.

If he's not ticking boxes, then he's ticking away time.


see other thread.

tap tap tap

that's 2 boxes ticked, but do carry on

Jack
04-21-2017, 08:42 PM
And that, as they say, is that.

69Chevy396
04-22-2017, 03:30 PM
And that, as they say, is that.
Boy oh boy was I wrong. Last night Seba was on fire. Best performance since 2015. He came so close to scoring five goals. He made several sensational passes. And, when he got pissd off for being subbed, it showed me that he is back.

Shakes McQueen
04-22-2017, 05:15 PM
This could very well just be projection on my part, but I've always gotten the impression that playing for TFC has been (or become) about more than just money for Seba. Not because I have any delusions that he thinks the league is amazing or something, but because he seems to like the life he gets to have in Toronto, away from the glare of playing soccer in Italy - and seems to like it for his little munchkin, too. It's like playing hockey for the Leafs, versus playing in California - some guys prefer being out of that pressure cooker, and how it lets them have more of a life.

With someone like Defoe, once the games actually started being played, you started to hear rumblings that he was homesick, and he'd head back to England any time he had the opportunity.

I mean, I'm sure the dump truck of money is a huge part of it, but I don't think he's completely mercenary. He seems committed to his new life.

izzyzz
04-23-2017, 04:41 AM
Even the best players go through their slow/low-scoring periods, so may be let's not turn into team Whiny Babies FC on such short notice in the future. :)

P.S. The last game was a treat to watch, with Seba's performance being the best thing about it of course!

James17930
04-24-2017, 07:04 PM
Any time I'm inclined to start thinking like this, I try to remember that a few inches here or there on some of his agonizingly close shots, and this conversation largely is not happening. I mean, it could all be true, but he's earned more than a little benefit of the doubt.

I also haven't looked closely at what our opponents are doing to try and neutralize him, and how that has changed over the last couple of years.

This is so relevant too. I think a lot of us fall into the habit of only paying attention to the ball or our players' movements during the game, and we really don't see what the other teams do.

We should all make an effort next game to watch how they defend Gio, and I'm sure we'll notice that he's often getting double- and/or triple-teamed a lot of the time. Any player, no matter how good, is gonna have difficulty getting through that. Maybe Vanney needs to really notice that and have the rest of the midfield come into support more, or have Altidore run picks or something.

(As an aside, for anyone who thought Altidore had a mediocre MLS Cup game against Seattle, go back and watch it again and see how Chad Marshall defended him; he did a superb job – really had Jozy's number. Don't know if you can exactly 'blame' Jozy for it ... he was just out-defended on the day by a strong, smart veteran player. Happens sometimes).

But I completely agree that if you watch his reactions to things on the field, I think it shows that he's happy here and cares about the team, and we (the fan base) have to stop questioning that because we've seen it happen too often in the past with other star players and it ends up becoming self-fulfilling prophecy.

OgtheDim
04-25-2017, 08:01 AM
Watch this post goal celebration for how his teammates react with him. In particular watch for the Altidore and Bradley interaction with him.

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2017-04-21-toronto-fc-vs-chicago-fire/details/video/101063

This is not a guy out of favour with his teammates. This team is tight.

jabbronies
04-25-2017, 09:29 AM
This is a non-issue.

Vanney and Seba talked it out and have moved on.

This shit happens when you play competitively

C.Ronaldo
04-25-2017, 01:07 PM
anyone notice how seba only celebrated with 1 arm, instead of 2

and he didnt bust out the vespa


hes gonna break up with us, i can feel it

mistercorporate
04-25-2017, 02:21 PM
The amount of insecurity regarding this team among sections of our fanbase is nauseating. We have nothing to worry about you chumps! I hope you guys aren't as negative and anxious around your significant others lol...

kodiakTFC
04-25-2017, 06:53 PM
The amount of insecurity regarding this team among sections of our fanbase is nauseating. We have nothing to worry about you chumps! I hope you guys aren't as negative and anxious around your significant others lol...

Just come out and say it. You think I'm fat!

CBTFC
04-25-2017, 07:09 PM
anyone notice how seba only celebrated with 1 arm, instead of 2

and he didnt bust out the vespa


hes gonna break up with us, i can feel it

And he didn't leap as high as he normally does.

For sure he's demanding a move in the summer.

;)

glaze
04-25-2017, 08:55 PM
The talent on this team has masked some poor coaching.
If it comes down to Seba vs Vanney, who do you think goes?
Perhaps Seba just doesn't like the cold. It's still early in the season. It takes some athletes in all sports a while to get going.
The crowds this season have been great, we went head to head with a leafs playoff game and drew a legitimate 25,000 people
Three years ago we couldn't give our tix away. Management will do whatever they have to to make Seba happy,

OgtheDim
04-25-2017, 09:30 PM
Every thread eventually leads to....


http://i.imgur.com/KQtEDUS.jpg

MightyDM
04-25-2017, 09:50 PM
Seba was rarely used as a forward in Serie A, and seldom took free kicks. He stepped into this role in the much weaker MLS, and did remarkably well. But, he is 30. I think his slowing down was inevitable, compounded by MLS defenders and managers, improving their tactics. I think the manager needs to move him behind Altidore, where he can best utilize his talents. In addition, Seba should not be taking free kicks. He is not scoring, and each miss seems to remove a piece of his confidence.

On the whole, a good example of why supporters are not the manager, even in proper supporter owned clubs.

MightyDM
04-25-2017, 09:51 PM
Boy oh boy was I wrong. Last night Seba was on fire. Best performance since 2015. He came so close to scoring five goals. He made several sensational passes. And, when he got pissd off for being subbed, it showed me that he is back.

ah. Apologies for prior post. Seba had Fuele heads and a Hurst on the floor.

Brooker
04-26-2017, 01:26 PM
He gets hammered a lot.

So basically like everyone in the south end.

Oldtimer
04-28-2017, 10:36 PM
I looked at Seba celebrating Jozy's goals against Houston and just saw happiness for his team mate. He's a competitor, but he's also a team player and not about to pull a Defoe.

notthesun
04-28-2017, 10:40 PM
I looked at Seba celebrating Jozy's goals against Houston and just saw happiness for his team mate. He's a competitor, but he's also a team player and not about to pull a Defoe.

He gets a little too hyped sometimes, pretty much punched Jozy in the back on the first one. g:D

khso11
04-29-2017, 02:19 AM
He gets a little too hyped sometimes, pretty much punched Jozy in the back on the first one. g:D

Guess that was to punch his laziness out of him g:D, Jozy's work rate went from 0 to beast after the first goal.

Gazza_55
04-29-2017, 02:24 AM
The talent on this team has masked some poor coaching.
If it comes down to Seba vs Vanney, who do you think goes?
Perhaps Seba just doesn't like the cold. It's still early in the season. It takes some athletes in all sports a while to get going.
The crowds this season have been great, we went head to head with a leafs playoff game and drew a legitimate 25,000 people
Three years ago we couldn't give our tix away. Management will do whatever they have to to make Seba happy,

I was thinking just the opposite. The coaching (not only Vanney but Fraser, Calichman and the Goalkeeper Coach) have masked the lack of talent or experience at certain positions especially when we've had injuries to key people for long periods of time.