Match Day 7 - I Wanna Know if You can Get to That - Chicago @ TFC Fri 21 April 7:30pm

[OgtheDim]

Mavis Staples


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVO1sivbq5k

Have at It People

[jloome]

Mavis Staples


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVO1sivbq5k

Have at It People

Given how we're playing and how they're playing, I'd go with:


https://youtu.be/wlQrUA1r0N0

[sn0re]

It's probably time to switch up our 3-5-2 formation now

[khso11]

Time to switch it back to 4-2-3-1

----------------Jozy-----------------
Seba------Vazquez-----Oso/Cooper
------Bradley-------Cheyrou--------
Jmo--Haggs/Moor---Zav------Beit
----------------Bono-----------------

-Put Seba on the wing, his holdup, reaction, and shooting has been atrocious recently (and so is Jozy's, but what can we do)
-MB, Cheyrou, VV will make good plays and control the MF against Schweinsteiger, McCarty, and Juninho
-Oso or Cooper will do the dirty work
-Moor will still be out most likely, start Haggs, Hernandez, or Mavinga.
-No more wingback plays for Jmo, unless we're losing, just focus on defence
-Delgado in for Cheyrou in the 65'-75'
-Extra CB in, switch back to 5-3-2 if we're winning by the 75'

Prediction: TFC 2-0 CHI if we score our chances (and free pizza!)

[MightyDM]

Time to switch it back to 4-2-3-1

----------------Jozy-----------------
Seba------Vazquez-----Oso/Cooper
------Bradley-------Cheyrou--------
Jmo--Haggs/Moor---Zav------Beit
----------------Bono-----------------

-Put Seba on the wing, his holdup, reaction, and shooting has been atrocious recently (and so is Jozy's, but what can we do)
-MB, Cheyrou, VV will make good plays and control the MF against Schweinsteiger, McCarty, and Juninho
-Oso or Cooper will do the dirty work
-Moor will still be out most likely, start Haggs, Hernandez, or Mavinga.
-No more wingback plays for Jmo, unless we're losing, just focus on defence
-Delgado in for Cheyrou in the 65'-75'
-Extra CB in, switch back to 5-3-2 if we're winning by the 75'

Prediction: TFC 2-0 CHI if we score our chances (and free pizza!)

theyll just attack up our left all day long. Whatever we do, up front it's a two. Unless Gio totally changes his style of play. That means it's either 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 diamond. Without Moor, has to be the latter.

[MightyDM]

I also really wonder if we can afford to have three players who do not defend on the pitch. It's a real luxury.

[DinamoTFC]

Time to switch it back to 4-2-3-1

----------------Jozy-----------------
Seba------Vazquez-----Oso/Cooper
------Bradley-------Cheyrou--------
Jmo--Haggs/Moor---Zav------Beit
----------------Bono-----------------

-Put Seba on the wing, his holdup, reaction, and shooting has been atrocious recently (and so is Jozy's, but what can we do)
-MB, Cheyrou, VV will make good plays and control the MF against Schweinsteiger, McCarty, and Juninho
-Oso or Cooper will do the dirty work
-Moor will still be out most likely, start Haggs, Hernandez, or Mavinga.
-No more wingback plays for Jmo, unless we're losing, just focus on defence
-Delgado in for Cheyrou in the 65'-75'
-Extra CB in, switch back to 5-3-2 if we're winning by the 75'

Prediction: TFC 2-0 CHI if we score our chances (and free pizza!)

I'm hoping for something like this too. I posted something similar in the Columbus thread right now. I guess we won't know unless it's tried.

One thing I want to add is I liked how last season we had two working formations that we used and kept teams guessing as to how we will play and depending on the opponent. I'd like to see that again since teams know how we play now and have studied us.

[khso11]

theyll just attack up our left all day long. Whatever we do, up front it's a two. Unless Gio totally changes his style of play. That means it's either 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 diamond. Without Moor, has to be the latter.

They can attack up our left, but it wouldn't be as easy with 2 DM covering Jmo, with Oso/Cooper falling back from RM to CM.

As you pointed out, if 2 ST is needed, we can also try 4-4-2 (CM Diamond).

[khso11]

One thing I want to add is I liked how last season we had two working formations that we used and kept teams guessing as to how we will play and depending on the opponent. I'd like to see that again since teams know how we play now and have studied us.

This!

Also, Vanney needs to step up his tactical game again, I'll give him a free pass last game as he recently lost a close family member. But this week, we need to be back to business. At least give us a good performance and finish our chances.

[Initial B]

I think not having Moor just showed how vital he is to the backline. If he's out again, I think we might be looking at another loss at home, which would then really be worrying.

[PawTar711]

Is this supposed to be a difficult game?

[OgtheDim]

Is this supposed to be a difficult game?

Its not. Chicago's strength is in its outside attacks created by 3 DM's launching balls quickly to side attackers.

I suspect that TFC will not change out of the 3-5-2. I expect to see Osorio instead of Cooper.

[PawTar711]

Its not. Chicago's strength is in its outside attacks created by 3 DM's launching balls quickly to side attackers.

I suspect that they will not change out of the 3-5-2. I expect to see Osorio instead of Cooper.

Thank you for that insight mate.

Cheers.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Chicago is on a serious high, though. The first minutes of this one should be pretty action packed.

[jloome]

Chicago is on a serious high, though. The first minutes of this one should be pretty action packed.

They're the most improved team in the league. The three-man mid of McCarty, Juninho and Schweinstager will be very difficult. I suppose it depends on whether we can overload the midfield and how the respective back lines do.

[OgtheDim]

He won't be ready but this situation of Moor not being available is crying out for Ashton Morgan. I like Edwards but Morgan just has more defensive and league experience.

[MightyDM]

He won't be ready but this situation of Moor not being available is crying out for Ashton Morgan. I like Edwards but Morgan just has more defensive and league experience.

Og, very good point. Forgotten man. And would have really shored up the defence on Saturday.

[Redpunkfiddle]

Og, very good point. Forgotten man. And would have really shored up the defence on Saturday.

Perhaps, but he is injured recovering from foot surgery too.

[QBall]

Up against a competitive Chicago team with McCarty, Schweinsteiger and Juninho. This is going to be an epic match.

[C.Ronaldo]

He won't be ready but this situation of Moor not being available is crying out for Ashton Morgan. I like Edwards but Morgan just has more defensive and league experience.


based on everyone healthy , you would put morrow back in his spot and play the other 2 CBs

[OgtheDim]

Crowd will be down - Leafs game away that night. I'm thinking 20K.

[OgtheDim]

Molinaro injury update

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/854371081817403392

[noimpactinmtl]

Crowd will be down - Leafs game away that night. I'm thinking 20K.

Mapfre struggled to draw 13k because of Ohio State spring football game last week.

[OgtheDim]

One day we will have a warm night for a home game.


Not this night.

[Cas87]

Molinaro injury update

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/854371081817403392

With this news it looks as though we are leaning closer and closer to reverting back to the 4-4-2 Diamond.

Bono
Beitashour -- Zavs -- Haggs -- Morrow
------------------ Bradley ---------------
------- Osorio --------- Edwards -------
----------------- Vazquez ---------------
-------- Jozy ----------- Seba ----------

Swap Vazquez for Cheyrou (switch to flat 4-4-2)
Ricketts for Edwards/Seba (depending on performance)
Chapman for Oso/Edwards

[Joe Kool]

With this news it looks as though we are leaning closer and closer to reverting back to the 4-4-2 Diamond.

Bono
Beitashour -- Zavs -- Haggs -- Morrow
------------------ Bradley ---------------
------- Osorio --------- Edwards -------
----------------- Vazquez ---------------
-------- Jozy ----------- Seba ----------

Swap Vazquez for Cheyrou (switch to flat 4-4-2)
Ricketts for Edwards/Seba (depending on performance)
Chapman for Oso/Edwards

With the same guys available as the last game I expect the same formation again. Vanney was convinced after the game that the issue was a few mental lapses and not doing a little better in certain areas with pressuring the ball after the first 30 min. I don't think he has any issue with the formation that was played so I expect the same. The first 30 min last game did look pretty good with the guys we have. It was just the rest of the game that didn't look comfortable. We also have no major threats off the bench it feels like right now so if the starting 11 can't get it done I think we are in trouble.

[MightyDM]

I'd be surprised if Cooper starts. Their first goal was the second time this season that he had lost the ball in an offensive position and rolled around while the opponent went on to score. He got up quicker this time, but once had to be enough for the coaching staff.

[KillerBiller]

Hi guys, I have been a lifelong fan of Bastian Schweinsteiger. I have watched almost every one of his games for Bayern and Germany since my middle school days and now I am closely following his new move to the MLS. Being a resident of Toronto, I will be lucky enough to finally watch him play live for the first time, against my home team Toronto FC this Friday. I'm wondering if someone can give me some suggestions on how I might be able to get a chance to meet him in person and get his autograph during his visit to Toronto. Does anyone happen to know which hotel the visiting team is staying at and what time they usually check in? Also I have heard that if you wait at Gate 4 at BMO Field about 2 hours before kickoff, you'll be able to see the visiting team getting off their bus and have a chance to meet their players? Can someone confirm this? Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!

[Jack]

Hi guys, I have been a lifelong fan of Bastian Schweinsteiger. I have watched almost every one of his games for Bayern and Germany since my middle school days and now I am closely following his new move to the MLS. Being a resident of Toronto, I will be lucky enough to finally watch him play live for the first time, against my home team Toronto FC this Friday. I'm wondering if someone can give me some suggestions on how I might be able to get a chance to meet him in person and get his autograph during his visit to Toronto. Does anyone happen to know which hotel the visiting team is staying at and what time they usually check in? Also I have heard that if you wait at Gate 4 at BMO Field about 2 hours before kickoff, you'll be able to see the visiting team getting off their bus and have a chance to meet their players? Can someone confirm this? Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!
Yes, the visiting bus entrance is probably the best place for that. I'm not sure on times, but it would probably be early.

[Section_105]

As Jack said the best place to get them is as the team arrives/leaves. I'd stay away from hotels man but that's just me wanting to give people space. A lot of the players (like Seba, Torsten) just love the fact they could come here and not be constantly stopped everywhere. But as the bus arrives and leaves is the perfect time. They walk through a fenced path from the road to a side entrance. I chatted with Stefan when he dropped by with the the greenish machine for a regular game before, easy to get close, ask for autographs. if you go to the west side of the stadium near the south end it will be obvious where they come in. Be prepared to be surrounded by all the kids there for the opening presentations/ball kids so it could get high pitched.

good luck. glad you get this chance.

[OgtheDim]

A lot of the players (like Seba, Torsten) just love the fact they could come here and not be constantly stopped everywhere. //.

Then there was the time.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUjdtwFlHo

Yes, that's Torsten Frings in a railway passageway and almost NOBODY stopped to play ball with him.


*********

Thankfully the top 3 are more recognised now.

[Voodooman]

^ Seeing that video when it came out pissed me off aha. It just annoyed me.

But good points.

[Joe Kool]

^ Seeing that video when it came out pissed me off aha. It just annoyed me.

But good points.

When I first saw that video back then I thought exactly what I still think now. Why would you do that to a player like him? Why would TFC be so proud of that to put a video out? Are they trying to show how unpopular he is in Toronto or how football ignorant Toronto people are? Both are not great to showcase. One thing Torsten liked about Toronto though was that he could walk down the street without being bothered every two minutes so I guess it works out for him. Giovinco likes that about Toronto as well.

[Section_105]

Then there was the time.....

<Vid of lonely torsten>

Yes, that's Torsten Frings in a railway passageway and almost NOBODY stopped to play ball with him.


*********

Thankfully the top 3 are more recognised now.

Yup, remember that one well and wondered why they released it. at least he tried. I was waiting for some german national team die hard to come through and freak out but alas it never happened.

more innocent times.

[Voodooman]

When I first saw that video back then I thought exactly what I still think now. Why would you do that to a player like him? Why would TFC be so proud of that to put a video out? Are they trying to show how unpopular he is in Toronto or how football ignorant Toronto people are? Both are not great to showcase. One thing Torsten liked about Toronto though was that he could walk down the street without being bothered every two minutes so I guess it works out for him. Giovinco likes that about Toronto as well.

That is exactly why it bothered me. I didnt get why they did it.

[UpTheReds]

I really fear for the backline without Drew Moor. He's the Marshall of this defence and I really hope we can keep it tight.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Toronto FC - Chicago Fire

Tomorrow, 21 Apr 2017, 19:30





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FTC is given as a big favorite for tomorrow!

[OgtheDim]

Its game day. :scarf:

Woke up this morning and...well..take this for what its worth.

I'd rather be us then be them. Seba and Altidore and Bradley and Morrow and Beitashour and Vasquez and Osorio and Hagglund and Zavaletta and...maybe...maybe....Morgan. I'll take that lineup to battle against anybody else's in the league.

I'm tired of not winning but I'm even more tired of my own cynicism and grumpiness and fear. We have a team nobody likes to play. We have a stadium populated by fans that causes other teams to adjust how they play. We are loud, we are a fun team to watch and other teams feel good if they can get out of our house with their lives.

This is life with a top team. Its not perfect.

And its my team. Its our team.

As the song I quoted at the top say, I Wanna Know if This Team can Get to That.

But remembering what we were, how bad we were, even just 3 seasons ago, I will approach this game without fear and angst. We are damn good. Are we perfect? No and we will discuss all sorts of things until the time we win again.

Its game day.

Time to put on the scarf.

Time to wear the red.

:scarf:

[Joe Kool]

Its game day. :scarf:

Woke up this morning and...well..take this for what its worth.

I'd rather be us then be them. Seba and Altidore and Bradley and Morrow and Beitashour and Vasquez and Osorio and Hagglund and Zavaletta and...maybe...maybe....Morgan. I'll take that lineup to battle against anybody else's in the league.

I'm tired of not winning but I'm even more tired of my own cynicism and grumpiness and fear. We have a team nobody likes to play. We have a stadium populated by fans that causes other teams to adjust how they play. We are loud, we are a fun team to watch and other teams feel good if they can get out of our house with their lives.

This is life with a top team. Its not perfect.

And its my team. Its our team.

As the song I quoted at the top say, I Wanna Know if This Team can Get to That.

But remembering what we were, how bad we were, even just 3 seasons ago, I will approach this game without fear and angst. We are damn good. Are we perfect? No and we will discuss all sorts of things until the time we win again.

Its game day.

Time to put on the scarf.

Time to wear the red.

:scarf:



Nice one dude. Go Reds!!!

[FreekAce]

Its game day. :scarf:

Woke up this morning and...well..take this for what its worth.

I'd rather be us then be them. Seba and Altidore and Bradley and Morrow and Beitashour and Vasquez and Osorio and Hagglund and Zavaletta and...maybe...maybe....Morgan. I'll take that lineup to battle against anybody else's in the league.

I'm tired of not winning but I'm even more tired of my own cynicism and grumpiness and fear. We have a team nobody likes to play. We have a stadium populated by fans that causes other teams to adjust how they play. We are loud, we are a fun team to watch and other teams feel good if they can get out of our house with their lives.

This is life with a top team. Its not perfect.

And its my team. Its our team.

As the song I quoted at the top say, I Wanna Know if This Team can Get to That.

But remembering what we were, how bad we were, even just 3 seasons ago, I will approach this game without fear and angst. We are damn good. Are we perfect? No and we will discuss all sorts of things until the time we win again.

Its game day.

Time to put on the scarf.

Time to wear the red.

:scarf:

Breaking my usual lurking tradition to say this is a very nice post :scarf:

[ag futbol]

He's right. Half the teams in this league won't dare play us in an open game. Atlanta has really been the only opponent all season willing to go punch-for-punch ... if not for some bad finishing we would have won that contest handily.

[Detroit_TFC]

Well said. But I can't say I am optimistic about this game. The outcome I expect might be the point that lances the boil, though.

[Scotty74]

We really need 3 points tonight as we're at home. I'm fed up with draws already!

We looked really comfortable in the first 30 mins last week before some brain farts in defence cost us badly.

I would prefer not to see Zavaleta in the team but until Moor comes back we don't have much option. I hope we stick with Cooper ahead of Osorio, Cooper hasn't been great but I'm fed up with Osorio losing the ball every time it goes through him, he's not tough enough on the ball and he can't shoot for shit.

[Canary10]

Well said. But I can't say I am optimistic about this game. The outcome I expect might be the point that lances the boil, though.

I'm not totally sure I know what this means.

[Derko]

I'm not totally sure I know what this means.

Maybe like a straw and a camel's back??

[Canary10]

Maybe like a straw and a camel's back??

Don't you want to lance a boil though?

[Jpexxx]

Maybe more like "Opens the floodgates"

[DenisG_tfc]

Maybe more like "Opens the floodgates"

Or perhaps "that's the straw that lances the camel's hump"

-- running and ducking...

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Its game day. :scarf:

Woke up this morning and...well..take this for what its worth...

Thanks Og - I needed to read this today. I've been in such a "last year was their shot and they blew it" mindset all damn season - time for a little positivity.

[ag futbol]

Don't you want to lance a boil though?
I think you jumped the toaster on that one.

[CBTFC]

First game of the season for me, and it being on a Friday is a bit of an odd yet exciting feeling (though I'm off alcohol for now, will be 17 weeks monday)

Looking for an inspired performance by the lake this evening!

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/855549899118718977

Delgado in, Cooper out, otherwise the same and still a 3-5-2.

[SirBobSaget]

Delgado comes in over Osorio and cooper. Edwards starts again. Not sure if same formation

[molenshtain]

Could easily switch that to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 if we wanted.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Guys, I'll be thankful if you post a decent stream (not banned in the USA).

[molenshtain]

Guys, I'll be thankful if you post a decent stream (not banned in the USA).

http://goatdee.net/

https://soccerstreams.net/

there'll be a couple good streams between those two sites.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

http://goatdee.net/

https://soccerstreams.net/

there'll be a couple good streams between those two sites.

Thanks

[PizzaEatingYeti]

10 minutes into the game, and no stream is on yet... :(

[molenshtain]

First stream on the first website is working for me. There's sound but no commentary though, so it feels a little unsettling.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

First stream on the first website is working for me. There's sound but no commentary though, so it feels a little unsettling.

Strange,
I tried 2 other sites too besides the 2 posted, and all scheduled streams are 100% empty.

[General Woolfe]

Seba looks in the mood tonight. That would have been a helluva goal had it gone in

[General Woolfe]

We look really fragile at the back without Moor, maybe its worth considering a flat back four until he returns?

[Detroit_TFC]

More creativity on display from TFC, very promising.

[Detroit_TFC]

Maybe more like "Opens the floodgates"

I think that was the intention... I could use an editor.

[woolly]

stream up on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuKo6S2gjjU

[Hamilton_Red]

Giovinco is back! Beauty

[tfcfans]

Yay!!! GIO!

[Detroit_TFC]

That's the boil lancing referenced up thread. Goals from Gio. Let there be many more, please!

[tfcfans]

2-0 --- is everyone watching the Leafs?! 😄😄😄

[molenshtain]

Edwards playing very, very well again tonight. Interesting to see what happens at that position when Morrow doesn't need to play CB.

Delgado also putting himself up as the front-runner for the third CM spot. Shows what kind of player is needed beside Bradley and Vazquez.

[jloome]

Edwards playing very, very well again tonight. Interesting to see what happens at that position when Morrow doesn't need to play CB.

Delgado also putting himself up as the front-runner for the third CM spot. Shows what kind of player is needed beside Bradley and Vazquez.

It's a 3-4-3 tonight I think. Edwards up front wide, Altidore in the middle, Seba out wide right

Or maybe not. 3-5-2?

[ag futbol]

Agreed.... find a way to get Edwards out there but move him further up the field. He's more FW than a true winger

[molenshtain]

Lopsided 3-5-2 I think, not very different than how it usually is. Edwards is playing much higher than Beita but when we sit deep he clearly takes the LB position.

The thing is that Edwards is clearly good enough on the defensive side of the ball right now. His strong suit is certainly in the offensive third but he's made very few defensive mistakes in the last 2 games. I don't see a real need to move him away from this position to get the best out of him per se. He's doing just fine where he is.

[General Woolfe]

Chapman for Vazquez was an insane substitution by Vanney. Its completely handed the midfield initiative to Chicago

Awful miss by Jozy there... hope it doesnt cost us...

[ag futbol]

Game-set-match.

Dominant performance... and we're still not finishing all our chances.

[molenshtain]

Seba went straight for the tunnel and didn't look happy...

[Ajax TFC]

Only half watching, on a stream without commentary. wtf was Giovinco pissed about when he came off? He didn't look injured

[Detroit_TFC]

Seba FURIOUS about getting subbed, probably felt the third goal was there for the taking.

[Lab Rat]

Seba went straight for the tunnel and didn't look happy...
Disappointing by Seba. Played great. Just go sit on the bench.

[adam1001]

Why make the sub if the momentum is going our way? Poor way to end the game

[ag futbol]

That's a pretty par for the course substitution. Up 3-0 with less than 10 left, you bet your ass a fair number of coaches would sub their star for defensive cover at that point.

[Detroit_TFC]

Disappointing by Seba. Played great. Just go sit on the bench.

I want to see that passion. Yes, a bit petulant but only because he wanted to do more.

[RealG-TFC]

Why does everyone look bummed? Also giovinco, on a normal night sure I'd be in favor of letting you on to get the hat trick but ffs it's our first home win.

[notthesun]

Full value for that win. Very happy to see Delgado and Chapman integrated into the team. Vazquez and Giovinco were both excellent.

Chicago's goal was a bit of a "time to hang up the cleats" moment for Cheyrou I think.

Giovinco needs to smarten up a bit though. Vanney is subbing him off for his own good - does he want to be playing injured during the playoffs again? We need to limit his minutes where we can, and at 3-0 with 8 or so minutes left we definitely can. I respect his competitiveness and his desire to win MVP again and prove everyone what a mistake they made in last year's voting, but he's putting himself above the club with an outburst like that.

[Lab Rat]

I want to see that passion. Yes, a bit petulant but only because he wanted to do more.
True. Apologize to your team mates and move on. It's a long season.

[shwade]

Fuuuck is seba injured again? Went straight to the tunnel...

[Detroit_TFC]

True. Apologize to your team mates and move on. It's a long season.

He'll apologize and he'll probably get a squad fine too for not sitting on the bench. It's ok.

[General Woolfe]

A solid win for the Reds and a very welcome three points. Although there can be no doubting we deserved the victory tonight it has to be said we were on the right side of a poor refereeing performance for once.

As justified as Seba was to be angry at Vanney substituting him, there can be no excuse for his petulant behaviour leaving the field. He acted like a spoiled child. Im worried about Giovinco despite his brace tonight. Something doesnt seem right with him. His body language is all wrong and at times his commitment seems half-hearted at best. I hope whatever is troubling him can be worked out. Our season depends on it. Vanny's substitutions must come into question tonight, in particular taking off Vazquez. I have been uncertain of the Spaniard this season so far however I thought he was great tonight and he was involved in positive about our play. When he went off we didnt look the same side. It surrendered the initiative to Chicago and we were lucky not to concede a penalty which would have made it 2-1, not to mention a fortunate call on the foul which led to Seba's free kick. Pulling Giovinco was an equally baffling substitution by Vanney, especially given Jozy was having a woeful evening and looked like he could hit a barn door with a howitzer. Any threat we posed disappeared with Seba up the tunnel. Special mention for Michael Bradley tonight who I thought was our best player, and given the pre-match hype surrounding Chicago's lauded midfield, he dominated the midfield equally effective in supporting the defence and feeding the attack. It was a captain's performance from him tonight when we needed it most.

Somehow I think I should feel better about tonight given the result. However, although we deserved the points, it was a less than dominant performance. The substitutions were deeply questionable and at another time could have cost us dearly. As it is I feel bad for Bono we didnt keep a clean sheet, and although it might seem simplistic, Cheyrou has to take the blame for that. Seba's departure also left a bad taste in the mouth and I just hope its not indicative of problems behind the scenes. I'm grateful for the win tonight which stops us slipping further behind in the SS race, but we need to get our problems sorted if we are to emulate the achievements of last season

[jmorgs88]

Seba needs to grow up. That is a very standard substitution and decisions like that game in and game out will keep him fresh for a long season. The body language needs to change to reflect a more team-first mentality

[molenshtain]

Do Madrid fans constantly bitch abut Ronaldo having poor body language?

Seba's a competitor, and all indications are that he's very happy here. He wants to score goals and win a championship. Everything else is secondary to that fact.

The Vazquez sub makes sense even if we weren't as good after. Comfortably up two no reason not to give Chapman a run out. Vanney said he's been very impressive in training and has been trying to get him a run out. When else is he supposed to get his minutes?

Please please please more Delgado. It's so obvious he's the best match at CM with Bradley and Vazquez. Does the dirty work and drives the play forward when he has the chance. Credit to Bradley and Vazquez for being great in the middle of the park tonight but Delgado was integral to winning the battle too. Edwards continues to impress as well.

[ag futbol]

Do Madrid fans constantly bitch abut Ronaldo having poor body language?

Seba's a competitor, and all indications are that he's very happy here. He wants to score goals and win a championship. Everything else is secondary to that fact.

The Vazquez sub makes sense even if we weren't as good after. Comfortably up two no reason not to give Chapman a run out. Vanney said he's been very impressive in training and has been trying to get him a run out. When else is he supposed to get his minutes?

Please please please more Delgado. It's so obvious he's the best match at CM with Bradley and Vazquez. Does the dirty work and drives the play forward when he has the chance. Credit to Bradley and Vazquez for being great in the middle of the park tonight but Delgado was integral to winning the battle too. Edwards continues to impress as well.
+1 to it all. Especially Delgado - more please.

Having a second defensive minded player just balances everything nicely.

[Areathrasher]

Do Madrid fans constantly bitch abut Ronaldo having poor body language?

Seba's a competitor, and all indications are that he's very happy here. He wants to score goals and win a championship. Everything else is secondary to that fact.

The Vazquez sub makes sense even if we weren't as good after. Comfortably up two no reason not to give Chapman a run out. Vanney said he's been very impressive in training and has been trying to get him a run out. When else is he supposed to get his minutes?

Please please please more Delgado. It's so obvious he's the best match at CM with Bradley and Vazquez. Does the dirty work and drives the play forward when he has the chance. Credit to Bradley and Vazquez for being great in the middle of the park tonight but Delgado was integral to winning the battle too. Edwards continues to impress as well.

There's poor body language and theres' being a petulant twat. I know what side Seba was on tonight...

Agreed about the Vazquez sub. It was the right time to give Jay some mins. Although he didnt do much/look great with them.

Agreed about Delgado.Bar his misplaced pass to Jozy he was perfect all night. Although I wonder if that might have been a symptom of the Fire's midfield being a directionless, positionless mess.

[General Woolfe]

Do Madrid fans constantly bitch abut Ronaldo having poor body language?

Seba's a competitor, and all indications are that he's very happy here. He wants to score goals and win a championship. Everything else is secondary to that fact.

The Vazquez sub makes sense even if we weren't as good after. Comfortably up two no reason not to give Chapman a run out. Vanney said he's been very impressive in training and has been trying to get him a run out. When else is he supposed to get his minutes?

Please please please more Delgado. It's so obvious he's the best match at CM with Bradley and Vazquez. Does the dirty work and drives the play forward when he has the chance. Credit to Bradley and Vazquez for being great in the middle of the park tonight but Delgado was integral to winning the battle too. Edwards continues to impress as well.
Fair points m8, however Séba barely cracked a smile after netting the free kick. If that had been me I'd have picked up a card for my celebrations. I sincerely hope you're right in your assessment and I'm wrong, however Giovinco's actions on being subbed were hardly those of a happy player.

On Delgado we will have to disagree. I thought he had a very quiet game. I much prefer Cooper's feistiness in there. We simply lost momentum when Vazquez left the field. Although we were two up it was too early in the game for me to sacrifice our playmaker. Had the ref got a couple of calls correct we could be talking about another two points dropped. Having said that I take your point about game time. I would have waited ten minutes and pulled Delgado to make way for Chapman, something a Vanney had to do not much later because of cramp

[ManUtd4ever]

Victory at last.

[Hamilton_Red]

That was Seba back at his best - which is a relief. Vasquez had another good run and is really starting to assert himself as the creator. Disappointed with Alti's performance tonight - if he finishes well we would have had 5. Edwards - not a stellar performance. Cheyrou gave the goal away - very rusty.

Other than that it was nice to win after having to suffer through the sycophantic love in for Sweinsteiger.... yes he was lucky enough to be a decent international in the German team. No He can't take Chicago from last to first in one season on his own. Needed that win - to send a message.

[MightyDM]

It looked a little different inside the stadium. For example, Vasquez, who was exceptional going forward, was playing far too high up the pitch for. 2-0 lead with 15-20 minutes left. We were all yelling for him to be subbed, and Chapman made sense. In fact, Chapmans touch was superb - several excellent one touch through balls. I was very impressed.

Oso was solid as usual when Delgado had to come off, and Delgado had a decent game but Chicago left him alone. It was almost like they were saying focus on Bradley and Vasquez, and defend Edwards, Delgado cannot hurt us.

the third sub was baffling. Jozy had been dozy almost the whole game, except for his hold up play. And he wasn't tracking back. Replacing him with Cheyrou might have made sense. Replacing Givinco was surprising.

looking at the bench, something has to give. Why do we need Osorio, Cooper, Delgado, Chapman and Endoh? They are all fairly similar types of players I think we are going to see a trade or something and my guess is Cooper.

[sidvan]

Just my two cents - thought Hagglund had a very good game on the back line. He was the leader out there organizing the lines and directing traffic. He's been listening and learning from Moor. The Fire goal was the result of a give away by Cheyrou.

[OgtheDim]

Chicago came out to play and paid for it. We had the right set up for the opponent.
Schweinsteiger was technically better but gosh he looked tubby. Bradley kept him quiet most of the game. We were very good at moving the ball around until about minute 65 when we slowed the ball movement too much.

Houston won't play that open. I suspect Cooper will be back in the side next week.

[notthesun]

I've never had a problem with Giovinco's demeanor on the pitch. He's fiery and wears his heart on his sleeve. But there's a difference between showing your frustration on the pitch and what he did today. That was simply childish.

[Canary10]

Chicago came out to play and paid for it. We had the right set up for the opponent.
Schweinsteiger was technically better but gosh he looked tubby. Bradley kept him quiet most of the game. We were very good at moving the ball around until about minute 65 when we slowed the ball movement too much.

Houston won't play that open. I suspect Cooper will be back in the side next week.

He really did look tubby but I think he's actually just a big guy. I didn't see a big gut on him like, say, Landon Donovan in his last year. Or Joe Bendik. It surprised me how wide he is.

[Canary10]

That's the boil lancing referenced up thread. Goals from Gio. Let there be many more, please!

THAT'S what you meant?! I thought by the way you wrote it you were expecting another bad game. That's why I didn't get the lancing the boil reference.

[Gringo Starr]

they seemed more direct today, far fewer pointless passes or little pirouettes on the ball. I liked Delgado in there, Bradley seemed more involved and at ease going forward especially early on.

[OgtheDim]

Good to see Beitashour come up to the SGs. I'm surprised at how half hearted it was by many others . Look I get people are ticked at giving up the goal but regardless of the result, you thank the fans who cheer so loud.

[SirBobSaget]

Just my two cents - thought Hagglund had a very good game on the back line. He was the leader out there organizing the lines and directing traffic. He's been listening and learning from Moor. The Fire goal was the result of a give away by Cheyrou.

Hagglund had a great game. Made several key tackles and headers.

[Richard]

I don't think Cheyrou should be on the pitch anymore, he is well past it and its time to move on.

[ag futbol]

So he reportedly showered and left BMO before the game was even over according to Neil Davidson.

Let's hope this doesn't become a distraction

[Richard]

^^^

Deserves a fine if that's true. Bradley needs to sort this out.

[khso11]

I think Seba is mainly pissed because there're other players on the pitch that should've been subbed off before him. He's a true competitor, he felt his scoring momentum again, but the timing of the sub was rather poor, I would be pissed too. I personally wouldn't look too much into it. At the end of the day, we took the W, lets celebrate that and move on to next week.

[Areathrasher]

So he reportedly showered and left BMO before the game was even over according to Neil Davidson.

Let's hope this doesn't become a distraction

Here begins the play to get the Chinese dollars

[Areathrasher]

I think Seba is mainly pissed because there're other players on the pitch that should've been subbed off before him. He's a true competitor, he felt his scoring momentum again, but the timing of the sub was rather poor, I would be pissed too. I personally wouldn't look too much into it. At the end of the day, we took the W, lets celebrate that and move on to next week.

There was 5 mins left. C'mon. He's acting the cunt.

[General Woolfe]

So he reportedly showered and left BMO before the game was even over according to Neil Davidson.

Let's hope this doesn't become a distraction

He seemed to indicate to someone in the crowd after his first goal. If it was his wife it would be strange for him to leave without her, not to mention a quick 5 minute shower

[jmorgs88]

Maybe there is more to it?

It is not uncommon to pull a player right near the end after a stellar performance to give him a chance to be recognized by the fans individually before we salute the team in victory.

[molenshtain]

Maybe there is more to it?

It is not uncommon to pull a player right near the end after a stellar performance to give him a chance to be recognized by the fans individually before we salute the team in victory.

Vanney has said that was his intention, though he admits he now understands why seba would have taken it differently. It was a simple miscommunication. I'm sure cooler heads will prevail in the morning.

He's also done this before with Seba and he's never acted out like this. Not sure what to make of all this but all things considered I can't see this being anything that big.

[Hamilton_Red]

Yeah - he should have been soaking in the accolades. That was his first good performance of the season. If I were Bez...I'd make sure I had a plan for a replacement this summer if he is fed up and wants the big Chinese money.

[khso11]

There was 5 mins left. C'mon. He's acting the cunt.

He could've subbed Jozy instead, which was playing very poor today. I didn't see that he push down the barriers at the game, saw when I re-watched the game on PVR, ya that was unnecessary.

[OgtheDim]

Vanney said afterwards his sub was a "miscalculation".

These are professionals all around. They'll talk it out.

[Shakes McQueen]

I think Seba is mainly pissed because there're other players on the pitch that should've been subbed off before him. He's a true competitor, he felt his scoring momentum again, but the timing of the sub was rather poor, I would be pissed too. I personally wouldn't look too much into it. At the end of the day, we took the W, lets celebrate that and move on to next week.

In a 3-0 game where he scored a brace, I'm a little confused as to why he would take it as some sort of diss in the first place, instead of a chance for him to get a nice ovation from the fans.

Whatever - Seba will have calmed down, Vanney will explain what his intention was, and this'll be a big nothing in the long term. Wonder if maybe Gio is wound a little tight because of his slow start to the season.

[ensco]

It's not just the barrier incident. Seba's demeanour has often been angry this year. Something is building up.

There is a problem. I thought it was frustration with the slow recovery from the adductor injury last year, but after last night I would say I have no idea.

No one knows what, with whom, or how serious.

[Oldtimer]

If you think that Seba wants the golden boot it all makes sense.

[ensco]

If you think that Seba wants the golden boot it all makes sense.

He looked angry as hell on the second goal celebration too.

Nobody storms off, swipes the barrier, showers and leaves the building within minutes, just because they got denied 5 minutes of in form playing time to chase goals.

I have more respect for Seba than that. He's pissed for a real reason.

[GBV]

We're in 114 and missed much of the game due to flags. Always nice to sit on a dank school bus for two hours and not be able to see the game. Went down there at halftime to have a polite word with one of the "leaders" and it fell on deaf ears.

[Carter]

So he reportedly showered and left BMO before the game was even over according to Neil Davidson.

Let's hope this doesn't become a distraction

Actually, Neil Davidson said, "he left before the Journos were allowed into the Change room."

No where does he say he left before the game was over.

[ag futbol]

He could've subbed Jozy instead, which was playing very poor today. I didn't see that he push down the barriers at the game, saw when I re-watched the game on PVR, ya that was unnecessary.
I don't think you sub your target man in a situation like that, there is nobody on the bench who is going to replicate the hold up play. Altidore almost scored in the last 5 minutes too, so it isn't as if he didn't provide any threat.

[ag futbol]

Actually, Neil Davidson said, "he left before the Journos were allowed into the Change room."

No where does he say he left before the game was over.
Good catch - apologies all for the poor wording of the description.

[Carter]

Good catch - apologies all for the poor wording of the description.

Sure, we can safely assume he was pissed, but at the same time, we don't know why he left before interviews could happen.

there are too many unknown factors to say for certain what happened.

Currently people are making speculative comments, it kind of reminds me of conspiracy theorists. "The sky is falling and he's moving to China"... grab a brain, he's out and said he loves it here and he isn't going any where.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We're in 114 and missed much of the game due to flags. Always nice to sit on a dank school bus for two hours and not be able to see the game. Went down there at halftime to have a polite word with one of the "leaders" and it fell on deaf ears.

So you're sticking it out and waiting for change? Good luck.

[burlington Red]

Good to see Beitashour come up to the SGs. I'm surprised at how half hearted it was by many others . Look I get people are ticked at giving up the goal but regardless of the result, you thank the fans who cheer so loud.

It would have been nice had our Italian friend thanked the fans who have stood by him while he's been shite this season. The club needs to show balls here and come down hard on this pathetic childish behaviour. Vanney and Bradley to a lesser extent need to sort this out.

[MightyDM]

I don't think you sub your target man in a situation like that, there is nobody on the bench who is going to replicate the hold up play. Altidore almost scored in the last 5 minutes too, so it isn't as if he didn't provide any threat.

You have a point about target man, but Jozy was pretty off all game. His hold up play was good, but touch otherwise poor and finishing execrable. Work rate low. He should have been subbed earlier just to get some form on the pitch. And some defensive work rate.

[GBV]

So you're sticking it out and waiting for change? Good luck.

Tolerable first two home games. Yesterday couldn't see 40 per cent of the field. All game long. Pathetic the guy didn't care -- jollies from flag hoisting yet a couple hundred season-ticket holders behind you can barely see the game. And he reacted like he couldn't care less.

[shwade]

Sure, we can safely assume he was pissed, but at the same time, we don't know why he left before interviews could happen.

there are too many unknown factors to say for certain what happened.

Currently people are making speculative comments, it kind of reminds me of conspiracy theorists. "The sky is falling and he's moving to China"... grab a brain, he's out and said he loves it here and he isn't going any where.

Of course he's gonna say he loves it here...Defoe never dissed the city while he was here and he obviously wasn't a fan.
No one reacts to a brace and a W like that if all is dandy...Def more to it than wanting to chase the hattrick. I initially thought he had injured himself and that was the reason for the sub and his anger but that obv wasn't it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Tolerable first two home games. Yesterday couldn't see 40 per cent of the field. All game long. Pathetic the guy didn't care -- jollies from flag hoisting yet a couple hundred season-ticket holders behind you can barely see the game. And he reacted like he couldn't care less.

He doesn't. But you knew this already.

[Canary10]

I'm with Giovinco on this. He's had a poor start to the season. You want to build his confidence. You don't do that by subbing him after he scores. Vanney made a mistake there.

[ensco]

I'm with Giovinco on this. He's had a poor start to the season. You want to build his confidence. You don't do that by subbing him after he scores. Vanney made a mistake there.

I think I am too. If that is the issue.

Not sure it is though.

[Auzzy]

A couple of thoughts:

- Although Cheyrou's turnover started the goal against, it was at least the 2nd time in recent games that Zavaleta was ball watching, or getting pulled aside despite being the last defender in front of goal, instead of covering the only reasonable scoring threat in that situation. Accam can beat you easily with speed, but his ball control isn't that great in close. Zavaleta could have made it much more difficult for him. (And Zavaleta isn't the only defender or defensive midfielder who has been ball watching on some of the recent goals against.)

- I wouldn't write off Cheyrou yet. He hasn't needed to rely on speed in a while. Usually he has amazing ball control and really helps to settle the game, plus putting in same great passes which keep the opposition pinned back. He was the kind of player we needed to help control the game after Vasquez went off. I bet Cheyrou will turn things around and be more careful if he gets another chance. Anyway, isn't this his last year before he goes into coaching?

[flatpicker]

Tolerable first two home games. Yesterday couldn't see 40 per cent of the field. All game long. Pathetic the guy didn't care -- jollies from flag hoisting yet a couple hundred season-ticket holders behind you can barely see the game. And he reacted like he couldn't care less.

There really isn't much to do but wander over to some other seats.
They have every right to wave the flags in the south end.
I agree, it's annoying at times (when play is in front of the south net),
but they also bring terrific atmosphere as well.
Try looking into the possibility of moving your tix over a section.

[GBV]

^ Terrific atmosphere can be brought without sight-blocking flags. Or at least wave/hoist them timing-wise with respect to those behind.
Not sure how many season tickets are opening up in 113 or 115 for all of us to move over.

[Canary10]

I think I am too. If that is the issue.

Not sure it is though.

Yeah seems there is something deeper.

[jloome]

Yeah seems there is something deeper.

Speculatively speaking, he may be frustrated by what he sees as poor coaching decisions. Like pulling him out during his best game. Plus he has his contract year coming up, so goals are pretty important to the guy, I imagine.

I genuinely think Vanney is a pretty good coach, but if you're a world-class player, "pretty good" is probably "pretty frustrating" sometimes.

[TMAN80]

Speculatively speaking, he may be frustrated by what he sees as poor coaching decisions. Like pulling him out during his best game. Plus he has his contract year coming up, so goals are pretty important to the guy, I imagine.

I genuinely think Vanney is a pretty good coach, but if you're a world-class player, "pretty good" is probably "pretty frustrating" sometimes.

Great point about the contract here, and there could be something in it. If Giovinco has thought about life after this contract, and what possibilities or options could be out there for him if he doesn't resign, then every little decision by the coach, or missed pass or chance by Giovinco himself would be magnified. If he has any aspirations of playing back in Europe, he needs numbers or he won't be paid well to make the move back to Serie A, essentially trapping him here in MLS, or China which seems undesirable. He likely feels enormous pressure to produce, and that could be making him lash out and behave in a seemingly childish manner. His time to showcase himself is running out.
If it's not the contract, there is something. this is not normal, or healthy for the player, or team. I dont recall any player ever behaving like this before, because he is "just a competitor".

[molenshtain]

^It happens literally all the time. Footballers are for the most part incredibly petty people.

All of this armchair psychology does nothing but make a mountain out of a mole hill. Seba's a very competitive guy, we know this. I can see why in the moment he'd be frustrated. I have a hard time seeing how it's possible he'd be angry about it the morning after though. He's an adult and a professional. This will work itself out.

[ensco]

Nobody cares about "a moment".

It's noteworthy if you think it's a pattern.

If you don't agree that Seba has been sulking, staring, getting overly frustrated at teammates, childish, and otherwise using body language that seems different/angry, fine.

But that's the conversation.

I'm torn between (i) wanting to believe that it's just what comes with the territory when the MVP and the team are both off to a slow start, or (ii) the fear that it's something worse.

I don't know.

[Areathrasher]

Speculatively speaking, he may be frustrated by what he sees as poor coaching decisions. Like pulling him out during his best game. Plus he has his contract year coming up, so goals are pretty important to the guy, I imagine.

I genuinely think Vanney is a pretty good coach, but if you're a world-class player, "pretty good" is probably "pretty frustrating" sometimes.

Few years off yet


MLSsoccer.com: How many more years left on your contract and have there already been talks to extend your stay in Toronto?

Giovinco: [laughing] Yes, there are still four years left [Giovinco signed a 6-year contract through the end of 2020]. And I think on my part there’s a desire to continue here and I think on their end [TFC], as well.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/09/sebastian-giovinco-goes-1-1-mlssoccer-com-ahead-mls-cup-2016

[molenshtain]

My point is is think it's definitely the former^. He's been doing that stuff since his first year. He gets angry and frustrated when things aren't going his way but looks very happy when they are. He does shit like this every season that makes people think he's pulling a Defoe. None of it has actually amounted to anything so I don't know why we keep reacting to this stuff as though this one definitely means something.

Until we have reason to believe otherwise I don't think it should be treated as something bigger than it is.

[69Chevy396]

I'm with Giovinco on this. He's had a poor start to the season. You want to build his confidence. You don't do that by subbing him after he scores. Vanney made a mistake there.
Fully agree. Seba was outstanding in every way. His getting pissed off at Vanney is a good thing. Seba doesn't care about applause (Vanney's dumb explanation), he thrives fron success....and last night was his best game in a year

[khso11]

I don't think you sub your target man in a situation like that, there is nobody on the bench who is going to replicate the hold up play. Altidore almost scored in the last 5 minutes too, so it isn't as if he didn't provide any threat.

He should've also scored the sitter from the Seba low cross, but he didn't. Jozy wasn't confident yesterday. From Jozy's injury record and winning 3-0, I'd rather sub him off.
edit: just saw MightyDM's post earlier, like what he said.

[khso11]

- Although Cheyrou's turnover started the goal against, it was at least the 2nd time in recent games that Zavaleta was ball watching, or getting pulled aside despite being the last defender in front of goal, instead of covering the only reasonable scoring threat in that situation. Accam can beat you easily with speed, but his ball control isn't that great in close. Zavaleta could have made it much more difficult for him. (And Zavaleta isn't the only defender or defensive midfielder who has been ball on some of the recent goals against.)



I think he's just used to relying on Moor doing the dirty work. I think after a few more games, he'll learn Hagglunds defensive play and adapt to it.



- I wouldn't write off Cheyrou yet. He hasn't needed to rely on speed in a while. Usually he has amazing ball control and really helps to settle the game, plus putting in same great passes which keep the opposition pinned back. He was the kind of player we needed to help control the game after Vasquez went off. I bet Cheyrou will turn things around and be more careful if he gets another chance. Anyway, isn't this his last year before he goes into coaching?



This. He's the type of player that can use his technical skills to cover his weaknesses (eg. Pirlo). It was a rare brainfart from him yesterday, but perhaps if he gets more PT, he would gain form and chemistry with the current setup.

[Shakes McQueen]

If you don't agree that Seba has been sulking, staring, getting overly frustrated at teammates, childish, and otherwise using body language that seems different/angry, fine.

He has done this occasionally, but he's done this occasionally for two years. It hasn't really amounted to anything yet, beyond a super-competitive guy getting passionate or emotional in the moment.

I'd assume it was exacerbated by the fact that he's gotten off to a terminally slow start, by his standards, and he clearly wanted to stay in.

[C.Ronaldo]

My point is is think it's definitely the former^. He's been doing that stuff since his first year. He gets angry and frustrated when things aren't going his way but looks very happy when they are. He does shit like this every season that makes people think he's pulling a Defoe. None of it has actually amounted to anything so I don't know why we keep reacting to this stuff as though this one definitely means something.

Until we have reason to believe otherwise I don't think it should be treated as something bigger than it is.

We're the physcho boyfriend/girlfriend

[EL DUQUE'----']

Just like every other striker finding his rythem, Gio wanted to stay out there. Bad decision by Vanney which he admitted... Gio will be back with Altidore next week.. Nothing to worry about.. If anyone played striker and u feel a rythem, then get subbed.. I dare you not to be pissed...I'm a striker, and that's just the mentality..

[OgtheDim]

FWIW

Passing maps and xG plot

https://twitter.com/11tegen11/status/855698363542626305

[Shakes McQueen]

We're the physcho boyfriend/girlfriend

More like the boyfriend/girlfriend with terminally low self-esteem, constantly worrying that things are secretly falling apart, analyzing every little statement or action to death, and repeatedly asking if things are okay between you.

[Derko]

You have a point about target man, but Jozy was pretty off all game. His hold up play was good, but touch otherwise poor and finishing execrable. Work rate low. He should have been subbed earlier just to get some form on the pitch. And some defensive work rate.

Altidore in the last 2 games has been off and actually has looked like the out of shape Donkey Kong type player when he first arrived and should have been subbed and not Seba, (I think Seba had a lot more gas left in the tank), Jozy, not so much, but I am sure it will all settle out, as far as Seba's hissy fit, there are plenty of players that display that when being subbed off. I am not worried, most good football players are a bit petulant, some more than others, at least he is ours.

[C.Ronaldo]

More like the boyfriend/girlfriend with terminally low self-esteem, constantly worrying that things are secretly falling apart, analyzing every little statement or action to death, and repeatedly asking if things are okay between you.

you have some history that needs to be dealt with lol

[C.Ronaldo]

Altidore in the last 2 games has been off and actually has looked like the out of shape Donkey Kong type player when he first arrived and should have been subbed and not Seba, (I think Seba had a lot more gas left in the tank), Jozy, not so much, but I am sure it will all settle out, as far as Seba's hissy fit, there are plenty of players that display that when being subbed off. I am not worried, most good football players are a bit petulant, some more than others, at least he is ours.

i agree, jozy cant miss those sitters and expect to not be subbed off. Chapman and Seba were working really well together

[Joe Kool]

i agree, jozy cant miss those sitters and expect to not be subbed off. Chapman and Seba were working really well together

Ronaldo missed a very similar sitter in the Clasico game yesterday. Doubt that Real Madrid would sub him off because of it. I don't think we necessarily need to sub off Altidore either because he missed one too. Altidore has not played as bad as some would like to make it seem even if he had a few bad or missed touches in the last couple games. Players like Seba and Altidore will have on and off days. No striker is on 100% all of the time. I personally don't think the Seba sub was even needed and Vanney should have left him out there because the game was going fine with the subs we made up to that point. I don't believe in subs so that guys can get a standing ovation or anything. To me that stuff is crap.

[C.Ronaldo]

Ronaldo missed a very similar sitter in the Clasico game yesterday. Doubt that Real Madrid would sub him off because of it. I don't think we necessarily need to sub off Altidore either because he missed one too. Altidore has not played as bad as some would like to make it seem even if he had a few bad or missed touches in the last couple games. Players like Seba and Altidore will have on and off days. No striker is on 100% all of the time. I personally don't think the Seba sub was even needed and Vanney should have left him out there because the game was going fine with the subs we made up to that point. I don't believe in subs so that guys can get a standing ovation or anything. To me that stuff is crap.

bench ronaldo, hes washed up lol

[MightyDM]

Ronaldo missed a very similar sitter in the Clasico game yesterday. Doubt that Real Madrid would sub him off because of it. I don't think we necessarily need to sub off Altidore either because he missed one too. Altidore has not played as bad as some would like to make it seem even if he had a few bad or missed touches in the last couple games. Players like Seba and Altidore will have on and off days. No striker is on 100% all of the time. I personally don't think the Seba sub was even needed and Vanney should have left him out there because the game was going fine with the subs we made up to that point. I don't believe in subs so that guys can get a standing ovation or anything. To me that stuff is crap.


We we needed to sub Jozy because we needed some defensive stability. The fact that he missed a sitter is a reason to distinguish him from Gio, that's all. Jozy needed to be subbed as he was having a poor game going forward and this was affecting him defensively. We couldn't afford to risk that in the last few minutes.

[Joe Kool]

We we needed to sub Jozy because we needed some defensive stability. The fact that he missed a sitter is a reason to distinguish him from Gio, that's all. Jozy needed to be subbed as he was having a poor game going forward and this was affecting him defensively. We couldn't afford to risk that in the last few minutes.

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think we were struggling defensively at all so I have no idea where you saw the defensive instability at that point in the game. The only real defensive breakdown was Cheyrou's and led to the goal which was after the sub. Jozy was involved in some chances right into stoppage time. I stand by my statement that we didn't need to sub Jozy or Seba because we didn't look to be in danger at that time to me. I bet Seba gets to play to the end of every game until he asks for a sub now so maybe the little temper tantrum worked. Guess we will see. I lost a little respect for him with that outburst but whatever. On to Houston....

[C.Ronaldo]

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think we were struggling defensively at all so I have no idea where you saw the defensive instability at that point in the game. The only real defensive breakdown was Cheyrou's and led to the goal which was after the sub. Jozy was involved in some chances right into stoppage time. I stand by my statement that we didn't need to sub Jozy or Seba because we didn't look to be in danger at that time to me. I bet Seba gets to play to the end of every game until he asks for a sub now so maybe the little temper tantrum worked. Guess we will see. I lost a little respect for him with that outburst but whatever. On to Houston....

it changes the way i see him a bit.

I can tolerate ronaldos bullshit, but hes literally the best in the world.

Giovinco is the best of MLS, hardly the level that gives you permission to be so childish

its kinda like justin bieber, i wouldnt hate his music so much if he didnt act like a douche, but part of me understands he can act like that and get away with being a douche because he generates that level of music revenue

[MightyDM]

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think we were struggling defensively at all so I have no idea where you saw the defensive instability at that point in the game. The only real defensive breakdown was Cheyrou's and led to the goal which was after the sub. Jozy was involved in some chances right into stoppage time. I stand by my statement that we didn't need to sub Jozy or Seba because we didn't look to be in danger at that time to me. I bet Seba gets to play to the end of every game until he asks for a sub now so maybe the little temper tantrum worked. Guess we will see. I lost a little respect for him with that outburst but whatever. On to Houston....

fair enough that they were not creating a lot, but Jozy was really a weak link. Made no sense to keep him on when a goal could have changed the dynamic. Even putting Ricketts on would have made us stronger on the day.