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james
12-12-2016, 06:21 AM
After a great year for TFC and boy was it a fun run despite the sad end has come to an end. We now have a few months off, waiting for the new season in March. Also it was a great year for MLS. Attendance average was raised again to over 21k average a new record. I think higher tv ratings then ever before in Canada and USA (Toronto vs Montreal playoff series set new records for Canadian soccer tv ratings). Teams have made more money, and more money has been given to clubs across the league for next season salary caps. New players joined the league and more money has been put into infrastructure and player development across the league.

It is interesting to see how this league will continue to grow in the next 10 years. How much better can it get? Will talent improve? How much money can be spent on players? How many more new stadiums and clubs join the league?

Next year Atlanta United and Minnesota United will join the league. Atlanta will play at NFL Falcons new stadium who have already sold a new MLS record of over 21k season ticket holders in its first year (not even Seattle did that in year 1) and Minnesota United also have had pretty good ticket sales and will play at a University stadium for the first year, and hope to have construction starting soon and able to move into a bran new soccer stadium in 2018. Los Angeles FC will join in 2018 season in a new stadium that is already under construction located very close to the downtown core of LA and have already sold over 10k deposits for season tickets in 2018 (Galaxy sold 11,500 season tickets this year) and I believe DC United finally are expecting a new stadium in 2018 after over 10 years of trying to get a new stadium built. And Orlando new stadium (it looks awesome by the way) is near completion, will be ready in 2017.

How many teams will join MLS by 2027? How is the league going to change the season schedule? Will US Open cup change at all in the future? Will Canadian soccer change? Will it grow into other Canadian cities?

james
12-12-2016, 06:27 AM
There is also other cities like Sacramento, St.Louis, Miami, San Antonio, Detroit that would like to start a new franchise in MLS and lower clubs like Charlotte, Oklahoma and Cinncinatti (set a USL record of averaging over 17k attendance this year) would like to move up to MLS. So many cities want a team now, how many will they actually let the league to expand to?


Even New England Revolution owner is now taking interest in perhaps moving the team much closer to Boston in a soccer 20k stadium, has looked at a site, and well that is all we have on info. But they desperately need to get out of Gillette stadium, it's the joke of the league, terriable venue for MLS, to big, to empty and NFL grid iron marks hurt the entire league credibility.

on a sadder note a few teams seem to struggle a bit drawing fans like New England (need to move closer to Boston to have any chance of attracting more fans), Dallas (they play way out in the country) and Chicago (stadium probably should of been built in the downtown Chicago area.). What will these teams do in the future to grow? Well Chicago and Dallas really built new soccer stadiums in the wrong towns. New England has hope if they finally get a proper soccer stadium.

troy1982
12-12-2016, 03:21 PM
Did someone say stadiums: here are the Soccer Specific Stadiums opening in the next 2 years.


Orlando City Stadium- Opening Date: 2017
http://d3d3lnryymltzy5jb200.g00.orlandosentinel.com/g00/2_d3d3Lm9ybGFuZG9zZW50aW5lbC5jb20%3D_/TU9SRVBIRVVTMiRodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRyYmltZy5jb20vaW1nLT U1YmZjNjYwL3R1cmJpbmUvb3Mtb2NzYy1waWMyLzEyMDAvMTIw MHg2NzU%2FaTEwYy5tYXJrLmltYWdlLnR5cGU%3D_$/$/$/$/$/$
http://orlando-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/News/Stad2.jpg


Banc of California Stadium - Opening Date: 2018

https://lafc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/LAFC.BOC_arial_small.jpg
https://lafc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/newrender2-1024x527.jpg


Minnesota United Stadium - Opening Date: 2018
http://theoriginalwinger.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Minn-_United_FC_Stadium_1.jpg
http://theoriginalwinger.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Minn-_United_FC_Stadium_3.jpg




DC United Stadium - Opening Date: 2018
http://i.imgur.com/JtBLKxN.jpg
http://dc-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/Page%20Images/DCU_c0300_4k%20v02.jpg

james
12-13-2016, 02:16 AM
Well New England need one of these badly or else id rather see them relocated. I also thunk its very importantant that Seattle do something about those grid iron marks that appear from time to time in the playoffs or US Open cup matches. MLS really needs to stop having these markings on the field if they want to get creadability from around the world and a very well supported club like Seattle the fans deserve better!

Blindside16
12-13-2016, 03:32 AM
Don't forget Portland and Columbus are looking at expanding and building a new stadium respectively. Chicago is the team that should worry the most. It is a complete nightmare surrounding that club right now.

Doucet3
12-13-2016, 06:11 AM
Don't forget Portland and Columbus are looking at expanding and building a new stadium respectively. Chicago is the team that should worry the most. It is a complete nightmare surrounding that club right now.
Try Dallas ... Can't even break 15,000 as supporter shield winners ...

OgtheDim
12-13-2016, 06:52 AM
Never ever trust renderings

Abou Sky
12-13-2016, 08:57 AM
Never ever trust renderings

I have that tattood across my stomach as a 'caveat emptor'

GuelphStorm2007
12-13-2016, 10:28 AM
I would not mind seeing Chicago moving to Cincinatti While Dallas moving to Sacremento

Voodooman
12-13-2016, 10:47 AM
Cincinnatti already has a strong base for their team.

Have couple friends there and it is a great atmosphere they have there already.

I guess this is sort of turning into an expansion talk.

Interesting article on Detroit: Thoughts?

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/12/12919610/detroit-city-fc-soccer-mls

GuelphStorm2007
12-13-2016, 10:50 AM
Its nice seeing DC United building there own Stadium finally . I wonder what is in store for New England.

james
12-13-2016, 06:29 PM
Don't forget Portland and Columbus are looking at expanding and building a new stadium respectively. Chicago is the team that should worry the most. It is a complete nightmare surrounding that club right now.
I did not know Columbus was planning a new stadium considering the stadium is only like 15 years old.

james
12-13-2016, 06:31 PM
Try Dallas ... Can't even break 15,000 as supporter shield winners ...

Dallas may not beagood city for MLS anyways, but it makes it worse the location the stadium was built in, way outside of the city.

james
12-13-2016, 06:34 PM
I would not mind seeing Chicago moving to Cincinatti While Dallas moving to Sacremento

I don't like the idea of clubs folding, I want clubs to stay, I hate in other leagues in the country teams come and go, but on the other side, if the fan base isn't there, there are other locations that could do a much better job. If only we had relegation and unlimited spending, then the struggling clubs would just drop down because of financial issues, and probably wouldn't make it back up until they sort the issues out.

Blindside16
12-14-2016, 06:38 AM
I did not know Columbus was planning a new stadium considering the stadium is only like 15 years old.

They are only just opening the discussions about it. It is still very early on.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/10/17/columbus-crew-sc-begin-strategic-planning-possibility-new-stadium

DIEHARDTFC
12-14-2016, 06:45 PM
I know people will disagree based on the season tix sold, but I am just not sold on Atlanta as a sports town, and don't know where thst franchise will be after the novelty factor wears out.

They've lost two nhl franchises, going to a hawks game is like visiting the morgue and the braves don't draw when they're losing.

Given their sports history, I'm not convinced it will be a successful venture for mls.

DIEHARDTFC
12-14-2016, 06:50 PM
Orlando City unveils safe standing section
http://www.thescore.com/mls/news/1183349
(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

Also this re: Orlandos new stadium. If it ends up being done right, would be awesome.

Fort York Redcoat
12-15-2016, 09:47 AM
I know people will disagree based on the season tix sold, but I am just not sold on Atlanta as a sports town, and don't know where thst franchise will be after the novelty factor wears out.

They've lost two nhl franchises, going to a hawks game is like visiting the morgue and the braves don't draw when they're losing.

Given their sports history, I'm not convinced it will be a successful venture for mls.

Big Falcon deal.:D

Canary10
12-15-2016, 09:57 AM
I know people will disagree based on the season tix sold, but I am just not sold on Atlanta as a sports town, and don't know where thst franchise will be after the novelty factor wears out.

They've lost two nhl franchises, going to a hawks game is like visiting the morgue and the braves don't draw when they're losing.

Given their sports history, I'm not convinced it will be a successful venture for mls.

I find this new trend to NFL football teams hosting MLS teams in their stadium kind of worrisome. Unless the pitch is grass, which I don't think any are. All the fake turf fields will make it hard to attract more high level players to the league. Is Minnesota soccer specific? Looks like in the rendering but I thought it was shared with the Vikings.

wopchop
12-15-2016, 10:08 AM
I find this new trend to NFL football teams hosting MLS teams in their stadium kind of worrisome. Unless the pitch is grass, which I don't think any are. All the fake turf fields will make it hard to attract more high level players to the league. Is Minnesota soccer specific? Looks like in the rendering but I thought it was shared with the Vikings.
They are playing their first season at a college football stadium, that the Vikings played at temporarily when they were building their new stadium.

But their new stadium is a soccer specific being designed by Populous. I don't know if it has a grass field or not, but Populous has designed numerous soccer stadiums, including Children's Mercy for Kansas City, Colorado Rapids's Park, and Orlando's new stadium.

SenorDingDong
12-15-2016, 10:10 AM
San Francisco is launching a new NASL team next year, which the objective to become an MLS Franchise. They have the backing of a number of Silicon Valley investors.

http://www.sfdeltas.com/

Canary10
12-15-2016, 10:44 AM
They are playing their first season at a college football stadium, that the Vikings played at temporarily when they were building their new stadium.

But their new stadium is a soccer specific being designed by Populous. I don't know if it has a grass field or not, but Populous has designed numerous soccer stadiums, including Children's Mercy for Kansas City, Colorado Rapids's Park, and Orlando's new stadium.

Great, thanks. They're doing things right there. Glad to see that.

mistercorporate
12-15-2016, 11:25 AM
Atlanta is hot and humid as hell in the summer, i'm fine with an indoor stadium there. A comfortable outdoor stadium will be hella expensive in that climate, they even have AC pumped into some downtown bus stops.

bluelight05
12-15-2016, 04:23 PM
I would not mind seeing Chicago moving to Cincinatti While Dallas moving to Sacremento

They are never moving teams out of Chicago or Dallas. Too big of a market.

Atlanta is a young and transient city and should do well with MLS. The Demographics are similar to DC.

Sean

troy1982
12-16-2016, 12:13 AM
Orlando City unveils safe standing section
http://www.thescore.com/mls/news/1183349
(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

Also this re: Orlandos new stadium. If it ends up being done right, would be awesome.

here is the stading sections
..https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzmtXpqUoAAWPB5.jpg

troy1982
12-16-2016, 12:16 AM
MLS Unveils Expansion Process, Timeline and Fee
http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/mls-unveils-expansion-process-timeline-and-fee

DIEHARDTFC
12-16-2016, 12:18 AM
Big Falcon deal.:D

Eye Sea what you did there...

troy1982
12-16-2016, 12:27 AM
Great, thanks. They're doing things right there. Glad to see that.


Here is a video of the new stadium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PKYWnXp6us

OgtheDim
12-16-2016, 06:51 AM
FYI: the Loons are decidedly NOT involved with the Vikings. The Viking ownership actively torpedoed one stadium location.

ag futbol
12-16-2016, 08:58 AM
There is no way the league should be ditching Chicago - that would be insanity.

What they need to do is ditch Bridgeview aka nowhereville for something in the proper city.

C.Ronaldo
12-16-2016, 10:16 AM
Here is a video of the new stadium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PKYWnXp6us

where all the money coming from? what indsutries does Minnesota have exactly that would generate the wealth to build something like that?

wopchop
12-16-2016, 10:21 AM
where all the money coming from? what indsutries does Minnesota have exactly that would generate the wealth to build something like that?
Nowadays there are a lot of tech and biomedical companies with operations in the Twin Cities. Quite a few major companies with HQ in Minneapolis, i.e. Target, BestBy, 3M, General Mills, UnitedHealth, Valspar

troy1982
12-16-2016, 10:19 PM
where all the money coming from? what indsutries does Minnesota have exactly that would generate the wealth to build something like that?

Minneapolis is a very wealthy city with 17 of the largest 500 companies in the US headquartered there.
here is the list:

14: UnitedHealth Group (unchanged from last year, revenues $130 billion)
36: Target (unchanged, $74.5 billion)
69: CHS Inc. (down 7, $42.6 billion)
72: Best Buy (down 12, $41.9 billion)
98: 3M (up 3, $31.8 billion)
138: U.S. Bancorp (up 2, $21.3 billion)
164: Supervalu (down 70, $18.3 billion)
171: General Mills (down 12, $17.9 billion)
203: Land O’Lakes (down 4, $15.2 billion)
213: Ecolab (unchanged, $14.2 billion)
225: C.H. Robinson (down 5, $13.4 billion)
247: Ameriprise Financial (up 2, $12.2 billion)
255: Xcel Energy (up 2, $11.6 billion)
310: Hormel Foods (up 1, $9.3 billion)
320: Mosaic (down 37, $9 billion)
333: Thrivent Financial for Lutherans (up 2, $8.5 billion)
466: St. Jude Medical (down 4, $5.6 billion)

The former chairman of number 14, UnitedHealth Group, is the main owner of Minnesota United and it is where the the name came from.

OgtheDim
12-17-2016, 07:49 AM
...

The former chairman of number 14, UnitedHealth Group, is the main owner of Minnesota United and it is where the the name came from.

Well that and its a two cities area and the supporter's preference. Unlike Atlanta who ignored their supporter's ideas and then whined about Minnesota taking that name.

Minnesota looks to be in over their heads but Atlanta although clever is a corporate machine of Home Depot.

Areathrasher
12-17-2016, 08:26 AM
Try Dallas ... Can't even break 15,000 as supporter shield winners ...

You realize they had one stand shut down all year and were operating at reduced capacity in 2016. Redeveloping their south end.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyr39gTW8AA1N82.jpg

Ponderosa
12-17-2016, 08:49 AM
where all the money coming from? what indsutries does Minnesota have exactly that would generate the wealth to build something like that?
From the top view it looks like a giant bedpan.

Onyx
12-17-2016, 01:12 PM
You realize they had one stand shut down all year and were operating at reduced capacity in 2016. Redeveloping their south end.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyr39gTW8AA1N82.jpg

come' on they were barely getting 5-10k. frisco is a joke. move it.
they only had the best record because its impossible to win there in the summer time. 40c sometimes.

Areathrasher
12-17-2016, 01:30 PM
They averaged 14k with a reduced capacity of 16ish. What's the problem?

bluelight05
12-17-2016, 01:32 PM
come' on they were barely getting 5-10k. frisco is a joke. move it.
they only had the best record because its impossible to win there in the summer time. 40c sometimes.

I mean you can't just move a stadium. Not a great location but they will have to make the best of it

Sean.

OgtheDim
12-17-2016, 04:11 PM
...they only had the best record because its impossible to win there in the summer time. 40c sometimes.

They have arguably the best domestic coach in the league, one of the best defences, and a dynamic attack. And they just got better this week.

They won because they are darn good.

greatwhitenorf
12-19-2016, 12:39 AM
Charlotte, NC, is creating a big blip on the MLS radar.

The Charlotte Observer reports that billionaire NASCAR track owner and promoter extraordinaire, Bruton Smith, and his son Marcus, have declared an interest in acquiring a franchise. Smith's company, Speedway Motorsports, owns the track generally regarded as 'the home office' in NASCAR, Charlotte Motor Speedway, home of two major events per season plus NASCAR's annual all-star race. They also own popular tracks in Bristol (Tenn.), Las Vegas, Atlanta, New Hampshire and Texas. They also own Z-Max Dragway, a state-of-the-art drag racing facility that lets cars run four-wide at a time.

These are the men who organized the Battle of Bristol, using the iconic, steeply-banked half-mile track's 160,000-seat grandstands to hold an NCAA football game this past season. And packed the joint. With tifos and everything:

http://cdn-s3.si.com/images/bristol-field-2.jpg

The Smiths are seriously adept promoters with bottomless pockets. The boy Garber must be delighted to see these two emerge in a vital area where MLS needs to establish a footprint to help make Atlanta and Miami work. If that wasn't enough, Dale Earnhardt Jr., one of NASCAR's most popular drivers, is a soccer fan, confessing to learning to love the sport whilst playing midfield for his high school team.

I've always been pleasantly surprised in the amount of interest in soccer uncovered in travels throughout the south on business.

OgtheDim
12-19-2016, 07:03 AM
That stadium is great for Nascar.

Anything else and its way too far away from the field.

troy1982
12-19-2016, 01:12 PM
come' on they were barely getting 5-10k. frisco is a joke. move it.
they only had the best record because its impossible to win there in the summer time. 40c sometimes.


FC Dallas is investing millions into the stadium, why do you think they will move now.
They have the best developmental program in the league and are the support shield winner, I don't see the problem.
Their 14K would be in the top three in attendance in almost ever European league.

james
12-20-2016, 01:49 AM
Charlotte, NC, is creating a big blip on the MLS radar.

The Charlotte Observer reports that billionaire NASCAR track owner and promoter extraordinaire, Bruton Smith, and his son Marcus, have declared an interest in acquiring a franchise. Smith's company, Speedway Motorsports, owns the track generally regarded as 'the home office' in NASCAR, Charlotte Motor Speedway, home of two major events per season plus NASCAR's annual all-star race. They also own popular tracks in Bristol (Tenn.), Las Vegas, Atlanta, New Hampshire and Texas. They also own Z-Max Dragway, a state-of-the-art drag racing facility that lets cars run four-wide at a time.

These are the men who organized the Battle of Bristol, using the iconic, steeply-banked half-mile track's 160,000-seat grandstands to hold an NCAA football game this past season. And packed the joint. With tifos and everything:

http://cdn-s3.si.com/images/bristol-field-2.jpg

The Smiths are seriously adept promoters with bottomless pockets. The boy Garber must be delighted to see these two emerge in a vital area where MLS needs to establish a footprint to help make Atlanta and Miami work. If that wasn't enough, Dale Earnhardt Jr., one of NASCAR's most popular drivers, is a soccer fan, confessing to learning to love the sport whilst playing midfield for his high school team.

I've always been pleasantly surprised in the amount of interest in soccer uncovered in travels throughout the south on business.

they would need a soccer specific stadium tho, this would never work permanently , awful views , to big for a regular fixture locations n. 20k stadium is what they would need.

james
12-20-2016, 02:11 AM
FC Dallas is investing millions into the stadium, why do you think they will move now.
They have the best developmental program in the league and are the support shield winner, I don't see the problem.
Their 14K would be in the top three in attendance in almost ever European league.

hope the renovation will help, but they have struggled in MLS with attendance, it's been on the low end even when they are on top of the league. In MLS with tight restrictions, going from the top of the league to the bottom or vice versa can change very fast, a few bad seasons and things could go down hill quickly for Dallas attendance. I hope they could change things around with the renovations, but they got there work cut out for them. Location could be one issue, but they obviously don't plan on building a new stadium in a new location in the city any time soon.

A lot of us on this board have discussed the shockingly low attendances from many leagues around the world, often only having a few big clubs that actually draw big crowds while other teams even in the top division draw crowds of 3k, 7k 10k exc. on average but are finishing in 15th, 10th, 5th even 3rd in the league. Some how despite low average attendance many of these clubs still actually have much better skilled teams then clubs in MLS who draw over 20k fans, how this is even possible I don't know, how do they financially survive, I have no idea. But some how they almost always seem to keep on going hoping to just make money off of a one off deep run in league cup match or making Europa or even Champions League. Some clubs with lower attendance are even spending much more money then MLS clubs. How this works, I don't know.

james
12-20-2016, 02:16 AM
There is no way the league should be ditching Chicago - that would be insanity.

What they need to do is ditch Bridgeview aka nowhereville for something in the proper city.

i guess the problem is they must of spent a lot of money on a soccer stadium only about 10 years old. Probably hard to build a new stadium only 10 years later.

james
12-20-2016, 02:34 AM
San Francisco is launching a new NASL team next year, which the objective to become an MLS Franchise. They have the backing of a number of Silicon Valley investors.

http://www.sfdeltas.com/

not to say San Francisco couldn't support a team as well as San Jose (or Sacramento) but I think with the number of clubs in MLS rapidly growing and the numbers starting to get near 30 clubs, the league is probably trying to decide on creating new teams in markets that have no clubs at all, having another club near San Jose and also Sacramento who has also been bidding for a team, I'm not sure how many clubs the league wants in that region.

OgtheDim
12-20-2016, 06:47 AM
One of the issues with Pro/Rel that ignored by Ted and his stalwarts is TV revenues in the US require you to be in certain markets.

Its not like Europe where the whole country is within a 2 hour drive and you can support a team from the other side of the country.

troy1982
12-20-2016, 08:54 AM
hope the renovation will help, but they have struggled in MLS with attendance, it's been on the low end even when they are on top of the league. In MLS with tight restrictions, going from the top of the league to the bottom or vice versa can change very fast, a few bad seasons and things could go down hill quickly for Dallas attendance. I hope they could change things around with the renovations, but they got there work cut out for them. Location could be one issue, but they obviously don't plan on building a new stadium in a new location in the city any time soon.

A lot of us on this board have discussed the shockingly low attendances from many leagues around the world, often only having a few big clubs that actually draw big crowds while other teams even in the top division draw crowds of 3k, 7k 10k exc. on average but are finishing in 15th, 10th, 5th even 3rd in the league. Some how despite low average attendance many of these clubs still actually have much better skilled teams then clubs in MLS who draw over 20k fans, how this is even possible I don't know, how do they financially survive, I have no idea. But some how they almost always seem to keep on going hoping to just make money off of a one off deep run in league cup match or making Europa or even Champions League. Some clubs with lower attendance are even spending much more money then MLS clubs. How this works, I don't know.


Travel in N.A. cost millions, most European countries could fit into southern Ontario so don't need to spend millions in Travel.
Also MLS has been spending a ton in facilities, and youth programs. Most European teams don't build or own their stadiums.

I see no way that the CPL will survive if attendance are below 5K with the travel cost needed for a national league of 6 teams and NASL quality players. If total player salary was under 1 million I can see it surviving however, that would mean semi-pro. I am sure they will spend a lot in the first season though until the reality of the situation hits.

Sonny Cheeba
12-20-2016, 10:26 AM
There is no way the league should be ditching Chicago - that would be insanity.

What they need to do is ditch Bridgeview aka nowhereville for something in the proper city.

Unfortunately MLS is stuck with Bridgeview until 2035. It was part of the contract when they developed the stadium. If the Fire ever fold and MLS finds another investor for a club in Chicago, it has to go to Toyota Park. That's the real insanity.

jabbronies
12-20-2016, 10:34 AM
Travel in N.A. cost millions, most European countries could fit into southern Ontario so don't need to spend millions in Travel.
Also MLS has been spending a ton in facilities, and youth programs. Most European teams don't build or own their stadiums.

I see no way that the CPL will survive if attendance are below 5K with the travel cost needed for a national league of 6 teams and NASL quality players. If total player salary was under 1 million I can see it surviving however, that would mean semi-pro. I am sure they will spend a lot in the first season though until the reality of the situation hits.

The goal for this league should first and foremost be Survival! Survive 10 years showing consistent financial growth and stability.
Only then can they begin to see themselves as a viable Tier 2 option in North America.

As you pointed out, Travel alone will be a huge bulk of the cost to running this league.

I don't see stadiums being a problem based solely on the whispers of this being a joint CFL run operation. Stadium share with existing CFL teams would be the smart move.

I see max salary per player being at around 75-100K with the average being around 50K and kids making around 30K.
It's a working man's salary so they should be able to focus 100% on playing football and not have to take on a second job.

C.Ronaldo
12-20-2016, 10:47 AM
Unfortunately MLS is stuck with Bridgeview until 2035. It was part of the contract when they developed the stadium. If the Fire ever fold and MLS finds another investor for a club in Chicago, it has to go to Toyota Park. That's the real insanity.

is this a state deal? how can they stop them from starting another team in actual chicago

Sonny Cheeba
12-20-2016, 11:39 AM
is this a state deal? how can they stop them from starting another team in actual chicago

It likely said Greater Chicago in the contract. Either way, they're stuck in Bridgeview.

MLS isn't the only League to make deals like this. Just think of how the NHL deals with expansion/relocation and the proximity to other markets (not an apples to apples example, i know).

C.Ronaldo
12-20-2016, 01:30 PM
It likely said Greater Chicago in the contract. Either way, they're stuck in Bridgeview.

MLS isn't the only League to make deals like this. Just think of how the NHL deals with expansion/relocation and the proximity to other markets (not an apples to apples example, i know).

its how i became a huge vegas golden knights fan.......just rolls off the tongue doesnt it

Sonny Cheeba
12-20-2016, 02:21 PM
its how i became a huge vegas golden knights fan.......just rolls off the tongue doesnt it

i prefer "golden shites"

izzyzz
12-20-2016, 02:55 PM
i prefer "golden shites"

I think you're confusing them with an Iraqi team, Baghdad Golden Shiites...

Hehehe... Yep, left my politically-correct hat at home today...

troy1982
12-20-2016, 10:34 PM
For those who thinks 14K by FC Dallas is so bad
Here are some 1st division European league attendances for the current season (16/17) for comparison:

Greece


#
Team
average


1
Olympiakos Piräus (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/olympiakos-piraeus/)
18.154


2
AEK Athen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aek-athen/)
10.818


3
PAOK Saloniki (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/paok-saloniki/)
10.569


4
Panathinaikos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panathinaikos/)
5.745


5
AEP Iraklis FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aep-iraklis-fc/)
3.007


6
Panetolikos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panetolikos/)
2.344


7
PAS Giannina (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/pas-giannina/)
2.128


8
Platanias Chanion (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/platanias-chanion/)
1.892


9
Asteras Tripolis (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/asteras-tripolis/)
1.680


10
Panionios GSS (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panionios-gss/)
1.389


11
Skoda Xanthi (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/skoda-xanthi/)
1.265


12
Veria FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/veria-fc/)
1.201


13
Panthrakikos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panthrakikos/)
1.166


14
AEL Kalloni (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ael-kalloni/)
921


15
Atromitos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/atromitos/)
864


16
Levadiakos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/levadiakos/)
848



Portugal:


#
Teams
average


1
SL Benfica (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sl-benfica/)
56.530


2
Sporting CP (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sporting-cp/)
43.538


3
FC Porto (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-porto/)
34.686


4
Vitória Guimarăes (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/vitoria-guimaraes/)
16.237


5
Sporting Braga (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sporting-braga/)
9.378


6
CS Marítimo (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/cs-maritimo/)
6.529


7
Boavista (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/boavista/)
5.334


8
Rio Ave FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/rio-ave-fc/)
4.505


9
Os Belenenses (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/os-belenenses/)
4.452


10
GD Chaves (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/gd-chaves/)
3.485


11
Vitória Setúbal (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/vitoria-setubal/)
3.198


12
Paços de Ferreira (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/pacos-de-ferreira/)
2.928


13
CD Nacional (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/cd-nacional/)
2.848


14
CD Feirense (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/cd-feirense/)
2.825


15
GD Estoril (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/gd-estoril/)
2.402


16
CD Tondela (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/cd-tondela/)
2.240


17
FC Arouca (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-arouca/)
1.690


18
Moreirense FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/moreirense-fc/)
1.536



Poland:


#
Teams
average


1
Legia Warszawa (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/legia-warszawa/)
19.080


2
Lech Poznań (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/lech-poznan/)
16.323


3
Lechia Gdańsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/lechia-gdansk/)
15.921


4
Jagiellonia Białystok (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/jagiellonia-bialystok/)
13.747


5
Wisła Kraków (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/wisla-krakow/)
13.367


6
Śląsk Wrocław (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/slask-wroclaw/)
9.988


7
Arka Gdynia (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/arka-gdynia/)
8.342


8
Cracovia Kraków (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/cracovia-krakow/)
7.469


9
Pogoń Szczecin (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/pogon-szczecin/)
6.475


10
Zagłębie Lubin (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/zaglebie-lubin/)
6.391


11
Wisła Płock (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/wisla-plock/)
5.838


12
Ruch Chorzów (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ruch-chorzow/)
5.812


13
Korona Kielce (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/korona-kielce/)
5.668


14
Piast Gliwice (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/piast-gliwice/)
5.188


15
Górnik Łęczna (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/gornik-leczna/)
3.770


16
Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/termalica-bruk-bet-nieciecza/)
3.740



Scotland:


#
Teams
average


1
Celtic FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/celtic-fc/)
54.845


2
Rangers FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/rangers-fc/)
48.904


3
Heart of Midlothian (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/heart-of-midlothian/)
16.364


4
Aberdeen FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aberdeen-fc/)
12.765


5
Dundee FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/dundee-fc/)
6.149


6
Kilmarnock FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kilmarnock-fc/)
5.560


7
Partick Thistle (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/partick-thistle/)
4.459


8
Motherwell FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/motherwell-fc/)
4.365


9
Ross County FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ross-county-fc/)
4.213


10
Inverness CT (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/inverness-ct/)
4.043


11
St. Johnstone FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/st-johnstone-fc/)
3.958


12
Hamilton Academical (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/hamilton-academical/)
2.351

troy1982
12-20-2016, 10:35 PM
Austria


#
Teams
average


1
Rapid Wien (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/rapid-wien/)
21.191


2
Sturm Graz (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sturm-graz/)
10.848


3
Austria Wien (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/austria-wien/)
7.229


4
RB Salzburg (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/rb-salzburg/)
6.699


5
SCR Altach (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/scr-altach/)
5.314


6
Wolfsberger AC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/wolfsberger-ac/)
3.785


7
SKN St. Pölten (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/skn-st-poelten/)
3.754


8
SV Ried (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sv-ried/)
3.521


9
FC Admira Wacker (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-admira-wacker/)
2.644


10
SV Mattersburg (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sv-mattersburg/)
2.631



Russia:


#
Teams
average


1
Spartak Moskva (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/spartak-moskva/)
30.158


2
Zenit St. Petersburg (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/zenit-st-petersburg/)
17.506


3
Terek Grozny (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/terek-grozny/)
14.561


4
FK Krasnodar (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fk-krasnodar/)
12.417


5
CSKA Moskva (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/cska-moskva/)
11.200


6
Arsenal Tula (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/arsenal-tula/)
10.331


7
FK Rostov (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fk-rostov/)
10.100


8
Rubin Kazan (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/rubin-kazan/)
9.713


9
Lokomotiv Moskva (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/lokomotiv-moskva/)
9.151


10
Anzhi Makhachkala (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/anzhi-makhachkala/)
8.513


11
FK Amkar Perm (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fk-amkar-perm/)
6.586


12
Krylia Sovetov (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/krylia-sovetov/)
6.496


13
FK Ural (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fk-ural/)
6.312


14
FC Ufa (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-ufa/)
6.257


15
Gazovik Orenburg (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/gazovik-orenburg/)
5.261


16
FK Tom Tomsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fk-tom-tomsk/)
5.006



Turkey:


#
Teams
average


1
Beşiktaş (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/besiktas/)
33.577


2
Fenerbahçe (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fenerbahce/)
25.819


3
Galatasaray (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/galatasaray/)
24.898


4
Atiker Konyaspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/atiker-konyaspor/)
15.398


5
Bursaspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/bursaspor/)
15.256


6
Antalyaspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/antalyaspor/)
10.425


7
Adanaspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/adanaspor/)
5.089


8
Trabzonspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/trabzonspor/)
4.338


9
Kayserispor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kayserispor/)
4.243


10
Akhisar Belediyespor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/akhisar-belediyespor/)
4.236


11
Osmanlıspor FK (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/osmanlispor-fk/)
4.069


12
Çaykur Rizespor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/caykur-rizespor/)
3.793


13
Alanyaspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/alanyaspor/)
3.688


14
Medipol Başakşehir F.K (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/medipol-basaksehir-f-k/)
3.158


15
Gençlerbirliği (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/genclerbirligi/)
2.938


16
Gaziantepspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/gaziantepspor/)
2.563


17
Karabükspor (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/karabuekspor/)
2.411


18
Kasımpaşa SK (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kasimpasa-sk/)
1.865



Neatherlands:



#
Teams
average


1
AFC Ajax (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/afc-ajax/)
48.303


2
Feyenoord (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/feyenoord/)
47.500


3
PSV Eindhoven (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/psv-eindhoven/)
33.500


4
FC Twente (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-twente/)
24.867


5
sc Heerenveen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sc-heerenveen/)
22.287


6
FC Groningen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-groningen/)
19.006


7
FC Utrecht (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-utrecht/)
17.316


8
AZ Alkmaar (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/az-alkmaar/)
14.845


9
Vitesse (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/vitesse/)
14.205


10
Roda JC Kerkrade (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/roda-jc-kerkrade/)
13.508


11
PEC Zwolle (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/pec-zwolle/)
12.600


12
Willem II (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/willem-ii/)
12.068


13
Heracles Almelo (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/heracles-almelo/)
11.368


14
ADO Den Haag (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ado-den-haag/)
11.029


15
NEC Nijmegen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/nec-nijmegen/)
11.006


16
Sparta Rotterdam (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sparta-rotterdam/)
10.285


17
Go Ahead Eagles (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/go-ahead-eagles/)
9.414


18
SBV Excelsior (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sbv-excelsior/)
3.924

troy1982
12-20-2016, 10:44 PM
France:


#
Teams
average


1
Paris Saint-Germain (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/paris-saint-germain/)
44.801


2
Olympique Lyon (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/olympique-lyon/)
41.684


3
Olympique Marseille (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/olympique-marseille/)
33.942


4
Lille OSC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/lille-osc/)
27.375


5
AS Saint-Étienne (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/as-saint-etienne/)
26.112


6
Girondins Bordeaux (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/girondins-bordeaux/)
22.735


7
OGC Nice (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ogc-nice/)
22.578


8
Stade Rennes (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/stade-rennes/)
21.524


9
FC Nantes (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-nantes/)
21.443


10
Toulouse FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/toulouse-fc/)
18.071


11
AS Nancy (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/as-nancy/)
17.571


12
FC Metz (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-metz/)
16.240


13
EA Guingamp (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ea-guingamp/)
14.501


14
SM Caen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sm-caen/)
14.382


15
Montpellier HSC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/montpellier-hsc/)
12.324


16
Angers SCO (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/angers-sco/)
11.295


17
SC Bastia (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sc-bastia/)
10.273


18
FC Lorient (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-lorient/)
10.189


19
AS Monaco (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/as-monaco/)
9.350


20
Dijon FCO (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/dijon-fco/)
9.093



Ukraine:


#

average


1
Dinamo Kiev (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/dinamo-kiev/)
10.353


2
Shakhtar Donetsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/shakhtar-donetsk/)
7.997


3
Chernomorets Odessa (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/chernomorets-odessa/)
5.978


4
Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/dnipro-dnipropetrovsk/)
5.121


5
Olimpik Donetsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/olimpik-donetsk/)
4.889


6
Zirka Kirovograd (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/zirka-kirovograd/)
3.590


7
Karpaty Lviv (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/karpaty-lviv/)
3.369


8
Vorskla Poltava (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/vorskla-poltava/)
3.189


9
FC Aleksandriya (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-aleksandriya/)
2.162


10
Volyn Lutsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/volyn-lutsk/)
1.789


11
Zorya Lugansk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/zorya-lugansk/)
1.367


12
FK Stal Kamjanske (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fk-stal-kamjanske/)
1.030



Italy:


#
Teams
average


1
Inter (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/inter/)
44.308


2
AC Milan (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ac-milan/)
42.431


3
Juventus (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/juventus/)
39.703


4
SSC Napoli (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ssc-napoli/)
30.144


5
AS Roma (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/as-roma/)
29.391


6
ACF Fiorentina (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/acf-fiorentina/)
26.013


7
Sampdoria (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sampdoria/)
20.717


8
Torino FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/torino-fc/)
20.092


9
Lazio Roma (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/lazio-roma/)
19.667


10
Bologna FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/bologna-fc/)
19.363


11
Genoa CFC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/genoa-cfc/)
19.334


12
Atalanta (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/atalanta/)
16.150


13
Udinese Calcio (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/udinese-calcio/)
15.376


14
Chievo Verona (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/chievo-verona/)
15.333


15
US Palermo (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/us-palermo/)
14.965


16
Cagliari Calcio (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/cagliari-calcio/)
14.026


17
Pescara Calcio (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/pescara-calcio/)
13.837


18
Sassuolo Calcio (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sassuolo-calcio/)
11.036


19
Empoli FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/empoli-fc/)
10.398


20
FC Crotone (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-crotone/)
5.027



Belgium:


#
Teams
average


1
Club Brugge KV (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/club-brugge-kv/)
26.670


2
Standard Ličge (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/standard-liege/)
21.700


3
KAA Gent (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kaa-gent/)
19.762


4
RSC Anderlecht (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/rsc-anderlecht/)
17.600


5
KRC Genk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/krc-genk/)
15.764


6
KV Mechelen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kv-mechelen/)
11.694


7
SV Zulte Waregem (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sv-zulte-waregem/)
9.652


8
Sporting Charleroi (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sporting-charleroi/)
8.701


9
KV Oostende (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kv-oostende/)
7.381


10
Sint-Truidense VV (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sint-truidense-vv/)
6.562


11
Sporting Lokeren (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sporting-lokeren/)
6.547


12
KV Kortrijk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kv-kortrijk/)
6.540


13
KVC Westerlo (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/kvc-westerlo/)
5.556


14
Waasland-Beveren (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/waasland-beveren/)
4.447


15
Royal Mouscron-Péruwelz (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/royal-mouscron-peruwelz/)
3.454


16
AS Eupen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/as-eupen/)
3.301

troy1982
12-20-2016, 10:50 PM
and Finally,
MLS


#
Teams
average


1
Seattle Sounders (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/seattle-sounders/)
42.048


2
Orlando City (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/orlando-city/)
31.324


3
New York City FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/new-york-city-fc/)
27.196


4
Toronto FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/toronto-fc/)
26.583


5
Los Angeles Galaxy (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/los-angeles-galaxy/)
25.147


6
Vancouver Whitecaps (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/vancouver-whitecaps/)
22.330


7
Portland Timbers (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/portland-timbers/)
21.144


8
Impact de Montreal (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/impact-de-montreal/)
20.669


9
New York RB (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/new-york-rb/)
20.620


10
New England Revolution (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/new-england-revolution/)
20.185


11
San Jose Earthquakes (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/san-jose-earthquakes/)
19.930


12
Real Salt Lake (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/real-salt-lake/)
19.759


13
Sporting Kansas City (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/sporting-kansas-city/)
19.597


14
Houston Dynamo (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/houston-dynamo/)
19.021


15
Philadelphia Union (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/philadelphia-union/)
17.519


16
Columbus Crew (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/columbus-crew/)
17.109


17
D.C. United (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/d-c-united/)
17.081


18
Colorado Rapids (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/colorado-rapids/)
16.278


19
Chicago Fire (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/chicago-fire/)
15.602


20
FC Dallas (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-dallas/)
14.099

Onyx
12-20-2016, 11:30 PM
One of the issues with Pro/Rel that ignored by Ted and his stalwarts is TV revenues in the US require you to be in certain markets.

Its not like Europe where the whole country is within a 2 hour drive and you can support a team from the other side of the country.

euro TV contracts have this as well. scottish soccer almost imploded when rangers had their tax issues and were dropped to div4. the main issue was the massive TV deal that basically finances scottish top flight, they were which guaranteed as certain number of celtic and ranger games.

ag futbol
12-21-2016, 12:27 AM
Unfortunately MLS is stuck with Bridgeview until 2035. It was part of the contract when they developed the stadium. If the Fire ever fold and MLS finds another investor for a club in Chicago, it has to go to Toyota Park. That's the real insanity.
I'd find a way out of that one. Negotiate a breakage and move on.

If the option for bridgeview is no soccer or no soccer with a payment they'll choose the latter. The increase in franchise value moving this to the actual city should pay for itself.

Initial B
12-21-2016, 10:39 AM
Thanks for the attendance numbers, troy. You can sure tell which teams are the top of the table based on stadium size. I'm curious to see the numbers for Bundesliga/Bundesliga2 and Premier/Championship.

As for the new CPL, what they need is cost certainty for the first 8-10 years of its existence. A national TV contract that pays between $8-10 million a year would go a long way towards that goal. I don't think that's far-fetched, especially if you include World Cup broadcast rights in the package. The CFL gets $40 million a year!

Sonny Cheeba
12-21-2016, 11:28 AM
Ukraine:


#

average


1
Dinamo Kiev (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/dinamo-kiev/)
10.353


2
Shakhtar Donetsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/shakhtar-donetsk/)
7.997


3
Chernomorets Odessa (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/chernomorets-odessa/)
5.978


4
Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/dnipro-dnipropetrovsk/)
5.121


5
Olimpik Donetsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/olimpik-donetsk/)
4.889


6
Zirka Kirovograd (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/zirka-kirovograd/)
3.590


7
Karpaty Lviv (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/karpaty-lviv/)
3.369


8
Vorskla Poltava (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/vorskla-poltava/)
3.189


9
FC Aleksandriya (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-aleksandriya/)
2.162


10
Volyn Lutsk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/volyn-lutsk/)
1.789


11
Zorya Lugansk (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/zorya-lugansk/)
1.367


12
FK Stal Kamjanske (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fk-stal-kamjanske/)
1.030





Those Ukranian numbers are likely low due to the whole Russia-Ukraine conflict.

But i agree with the overall sentiment of your posts. 14K for Dallas is not a number to scoff at.

troy1982
12-21-2016, 01:06 PM
Those Ukranian numbers are likely low due to the whole Russia-Ukraine conflict.

But i agree with the overall sentiment of your posts. 14K for Dallas is not a number to scoff at.

Here is the league average for Ukraine for the last 10 years:

2017: 4,230 (Current)
2016: 5,008
2015: 6,143
2014: 10,930
2013: 12,547
2012: 11,309
2011: 9,225
2010: 8,943
2009: 7,574
2008: 8,295
2007: 9,052
2006: 7,838

troy1982
12-21-2016, 01:11 PM
Thanks for the attendance numbers, troy. You can sure tell which teams are the top of the table based on stadium size. I'm curious to see the numbers for Bundesliga/Bundesliga2 and Premier/Championship.

As for the new CPL, what they need is cost certainty for the first 8-10 years of its existence. A national TV contract that pays between $8-10 million a year would go a long way towards that goal. I don't think that's far-fetched, especially if you include World Cup broadcast rights in the package. The CFL gets $40 million a year!


Also without a salary cap or forced parity, most fans know their team can not challenge for anything so why bother going to games if you know it's futile year after year, decade after decade.

OgtheDim
12-21-2016, 08:33 PM
Also without a salary cap or forced parity, most fans know their team can not challenge for anything so why bother going to games if you know it's futile year after year, decade after decade.

Takes a cup run to get interest - its why big teams have hollowed out local teams in most European countries.

Sonny Cheeba
12-22-2016, 10:50 AM
Here is the league average for Ukraine for the last 10 years:

2017: 4,230 (Current)
2016: 5,008
2015: 6,143
2014: 10,930
2013: 12,547
2012: 11,309
2011: 9,225
2010: 8,943
2009: 7,574
2008: 8,295
2007: 9,052
2006: 7,838

Yep. And look how much those numbers have dropped since shit hit the fan with the annexation of 2014. I know it doesn't detract from your point that Dallas' 14k average isn't terrible when stacked against many Euro leagues. I'm just pointing out that the recent Ukranian numbers are somewhat anomalous.

greatwhitenorf
12-23-2016, 03:12 PM
they would need a soccer specific stadium tho, this would never work permanently , awful views , to big for a regular fixture locations n. 20k stadium is what they would need.

To you and Og - Sois Serieux!

It's a forkin' racetrack used for a one-off sporting promotion, not a permanent venue for fieldsports. I only used it to illustrate what this potential ownership group in Charlotte are capable of.

I'll put less worm on the hook next time.

OgtheDim
12-23-2016, 04:19 PM
EXCEPT that whole track as another sport venue has been discussed before

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/sep/16/nascar-decline-struggles-auto-racing

PAOK17
12-23-2016, 11:59 PM
For those who thinks 14K by FC Dallas is so bad
Here are some 1st division European league attendances for the current season (16/17) for comparison:

Greece


#
Team
average


1
Olympiakos Piräus (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/olympiakos-piraeus/)
18.154


2
AEK Athen (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aek-athen/)
10.818


3
PAOK Saloniki (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/paok-saloniki/)
10.569


4
Panathinaikos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panathinaikos/)
5.745


5
AEP Iraklis FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aep-iraklis-fc/)
3.007


6
Panetolikos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panetolikos/)
2.344


7
PAS Giannina (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/pas-giannina/)
2.128


8
Platanias Chanion (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/platanias-chanion/)
1.892


9
Asteras Tripolis (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/asteras-tripolis/)
1.680


10
Panionios GSS (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panionios-gss/)
1.389


11
Skoda Xanthi (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/skoda-xanthi/)
1.265


12
Veria FC (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/veria-fc/)
1.201


13
Panthrakikos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/panthrakikos/)
1.166


14
AEL Kalloni (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/ael-kalloni/)
921


15
Atromitos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/atromitos/)
864


16
Levadiakos (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/levadiakos/)
848




Not sure if this is the case any more, but I heard rumours that in the past that Greek teams really underreported attendance numbers (for tax reasons?). They're still pretty low in comparison to MLS (by a lot). Like the PAOK numbers would suggest that they average 1/3 of the stadium per game. Which I don't think is true.

james
12-31-2016, 03:45 AM
Not sure if this is the case any more, but I heard rumours that in the past that Greek teams really underreported attendance numbers (for tax reasons?). They're still pretty low in comparison to MLS (by a lot). Like the PAOK numbers would suggest that they average 1/3 of the stadium per game. Which I don't think is true.

greece do find any way possible to cheat the tax man, it's a national hobby!

james
12-31-2016, 04:01 AM
Travel in N.A. cost millions, most European countries could fit into southern Ontario so don't need to spend millions in Travel.
Also MLS has been spending a ton in facilities, and youth programs. Most European teams don't build or own their stadiums.

I see no way that the CPL will survive if attendance are below 5K with the travel cost needed for a national league of 6 teams and NASL quality players. If total player salary was under 1 million I can see it surviving however, that would mean semi-pro. I am sure they will spend a lot in the first season though until the reality of the situation hits.

and some of these countries the stadiums are in pretty bad shape, including some big countries known for its soccer world wide in places like Italy or Argentina where they are viewed as soccer crazy. Yet again average attendance is much lower then you would of thought and stadiums are in bad need of renovations. In many cases the clubs don't really have the money to combat hooligan gangs, a big reason many countries hooligan activity has gotten worse then England was in the 80s "hay day" of hooligans, in some cases it's even worse then it was in England in the 80s. Yet some how, some of these clubs still would dominate if they were in MLS, how? Even with North American long travel distance it still hard to believe why are our clubs not able to have some of the best skilled teams in the world when you look at attendance numbers.

james
12-31-2016, 04:12 AM
In some cases I think some MLS numbers can be a bit skewed tho, wouldn't surprise me if some MLS clubs numbers included many free give aways, FCDallas often looked like 5k-10k fans in the stadium, makes it hard to believe they averaged 14k. Even TFC got crowds like 22k, 23k, 24k, I guess tho 1 sellout 30k changes the average. But overall the stadium looked quite full in Toronto, Places like Chicago, FC Dallas and New England, not so much.

noimpactinmtl
12-31-2016, 11:50 AM
In some cases I think some MLS numbers can be a bit skewed tho, wouldn't surprise me if some MLS clubs numbers included many free give aways, FCDallas often looked like 5k-10k fans in the stadium, makes it hard to believe they averaged 14k. Even TFC got crowds like 22k, 23k, 24k, I guess tho 1 sellout 30k changes the average. But overall the stadium looked quite full in Toronto, Places like Chicago, FC Dallas and New England, not so much.

All those places you mentioned has some serious accessibility problems in terms of public transit. FC Dallas has a racketing scheme in guise of a toll road to and from the stadium.

james
12-31-2016, 03:11 PM
All those places you mentioned has some serious accessibility problems in terms of public transit. FC Dallas has a racketing scheme in guise of a toll road to and from the stadium.

In general public transit is pretty bad in America, very car dependent. I remember recently reading only 6% of Americans use public transit at all, even smaller number for those that actually use public transit daily, compared to 14% in Canada (which was low compared to Europe countries) that were often at 20%, 25%, 30% and up. That said NYC depend on public transit heavily and a city like Chicago have a very large public transit system (Chicago subway system is much larger then Toronto's, and Montreal, however Toronto and Montreal still averages much more average daily passengers then Chicago). It's crazy to think that after New York City, Montreal and Toronto have the most heavily used subway systems in America-Canada, despite some American cities having larger subway systems. Cities like Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Detroit, LA have very poor public transit systems for the large populations, often caused because of sprawling populations rather then densely built populations, and almost all the money in these cities and a long with many other cities in America went into extensive highways and sometimes completely ignored public transit, some cities they even dismantled many cities public transit systems to build for the future life of cars, even some car companies purchased public transit systems to then dismantle them little by little, streetcars in America were scrapped for cars and busses ( ironically many cities have very recently started rebuilding streetcar systems, tho more modern models)

Teams like FC Dallas and New England are going to be completely depending on cars to get to and from the stadium, as they are built way out of the city. It might work well in NFL football where everyone drives to tailgate at the NFL game in a massive parking lot or field, but might not work so well in MLS. That said it may vary from city to city, but overall I think having a club located in the city or by some form of public transit may be more important then compared to say NFL.

greatwhitenorf
01-03-2017, 11:16 PM
And with southwest NFL venues now offering pre-game skeet shooting ranges and complimentary in-game gun cleaning services, MLS certainly has some marketing challenges ahead in the Trump Era.

ag futbol
01-04-2017, 11:48 AM
^ Agreed, convenience of location is more important to a MLS team comparatively. NFL is the most prominent brand in NA sports and people will drive wherever to see an event if they're interested.

As far as transit goes it depends on the city. It can be "convenient" enough for most without being transit accessible. That's just the way things work down there, as a few posters have pointed out.

C.Ronaldo
01-04-2017, 12:46 PM
And with southwest NFL venues now offering pre-game skeet shooting ranges and complimentary in-game gun cleaning services, MLS certainly has some marketing challenges ahead in the Trump Era.

do whuh?

is the country one long sitcom?

C.Ronaldo
01-04-2017, 12:50 PM
^ Agreed, convenience of location is more important to a MLS team comparatively. NFL is the most prominent brand in NA sports and people will drive wherever to see an event if they're interested.

As far as transit goes it depends on the city. It can be "convenient" enough for most without being transit accessible. That's just the way things work down there, as a few posters have pointed out.

a ride on the Chicago subway/elevated rust bucket from the airport to downtown is a wake up call to the homeless issues they face.

Most American cities associate transit with low income

james
01-04-2017, 06:41 PM
a ride on the Chicago subway/elevated rust bucket from the airport to downtown is a wake up call to the homeless issues they face.

Most American cities associate transit with low income

that in many cities is the case. Public transit is for the poor, cars are more for the middle and upper class. Often outer suburbs want nothing to do with public transit and refuse to fund it, leaving the transit systems broke, little future expansion plans for public transit (not always the case, but for a good number of cities it is the case).

Toronto has its problems, and arguments "who pays for what" is common, and adding tax issues is a huge argument to be had. The city did turn away from public expansion for a good portion of the 80s and 90s. But a good portion of people today want more public expansion and they want it in there neighbourhoods and it's not just the poor neighbourhoods. And Toronto is working on the biggest public transit expansion in USA and Canada (Ellington line, plus Union renovation plus Subway expansion to Vaughn.). In some Europe cities the poor are those actually further outside of the best public transit routs, people want to be close to a subway.

anyways I am getting more off topic, I guess just slow these days to talk about TFC issues.

GuelphStorm2007
01-04-2017, 07:43 PM
AS a crazy and weird this is going to sound and I am sure people will look at me if I am nuts I can see MLS and the New CPL be connected in some form

james
01-05-2017, 10:43 PM
AS a crazy and weird this is going to sound and I am sure people will look at me if I am nuts I can see MLS and the New CPL be connected in some form

The only way I could maybe see CPL and MLS joining is by being part of Canadian championship, joining with Edmonton, Ottawa and 3 Canadian MLS clubs (MTL, Tor, Van) like how many lower leagues compete with American clubs from MLS in US Open cup. But being part of MLS regular season and MLS playoffs?.....no way

greatwhitenorf
01-23-2017, 08:08 PM
Charlotte group headed by Bruton and Marcus Smith - prosperous NASCAR track owners and race promoters - in with a bid:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article127847499.html

They are looking for some public funding, but will carry the lion's share of overall costs to get the franchise. They have deep, deep, pockets, solid business credentials and a hugely favourable local profile. With Atlanta coming in, it would be a good choice to develop a local rivalry in an area MLS needs to grow its footprint.

I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of general interest in soccer shown during my visits to the Carolinas. Mebbe coz, back in the day, good ol' Dale Jr. wuzza midfielder afore he went racin'.

greatwhitenorf
01-23-2017, 08:15 PM
AS a crazy and weird this is going to sound and I am sure people will look at me if I am nuts I can see MLS and the New CPL be connected in some form

Promotion-relegation process for Canadian teams? CPL winner goes up against loser of playoff between two lowest finishing Canadian MLS clubs?

Hard to see MLSE approving this sort of risk to their investment.

OgtheDim
01-24-2017, 07:24 AM
Leagues moving into North Carolina have other issues - the reality of the anti-Trans law precludes investment there when there are other options. NWSL is making a mistake but their ownership is more like NASL then MLS.

greatwhitenorf
01-24-2017, 11:35 AM
Bruton Smith's Billion$ >>>>>>> RuPaul.

The Smith family fortune was created and administered out of North Carolina. Social and political issues won't be a concern. Certainly not in a state that played a key role in electing Trump.

Nor when MLS has Arthur Blank's Atlanta franchise about to kick off in a schwingy new stadium. There's not only a crucial investment to nurture, but an important TV market footprint to grow. A team in Charlotte also helps build appealing southeast regional rivalries for incoming franchises in Florida.

For Atlanta, Charlotte is the ideal place to put another franchise - just over a three hour drive away on a major freeway, facilitating the possibility of supporters groups turning up in numbers in each other's stadium.

molenshtain
01-24-2017, 11:48 AM
Bruton Smith'sBillion$ >>>>>>> RuPaul.

The Smith family fortune was created and administered out of North Carolina. Social and political issues won't be a concern. Certainly not in a state that played a key role in electing Trump.

Nor when MLS has Arthur Blank's Atlanta franchise about to kick off in a schwingy new stadium. There's not only a crucial investment to nurture, but an important TV market footprint to grow. A team in Charlotte also helps build appealing southeast regional rivalries for incoming franchises in Florida.

For Atlanta, Charlotte is the ideal place to put another franchise - just over a three hour drive away on a major freeway, facilitating the possibility of supporters groups turning up in numbers in each other's stadium.


They also just elected a Democrat as governor to repeal the bathroom bill because so many businesses were divesting their money from North Carolina. A lot of that money was in sports and entertainment. It definitely will be an issue should the league go forward with this and the bill stays in place.

greatwhitenorf
01-24-2017, 11:55 AM
Wonderful. They're appearing to be appropriately concerned. I don't think this issue would slow MLS from granting a franchise to the Smiths. Let me emphasize again. The Smith billions are already in place in NC and they are willing to privately fund the lion's share of the project. The Blank billions are already in action.

The positives in going to Charlotte are long term and tangible. The social issues are totally transitory.

OgtheDim
01-24-2017, 01:22 PM
You do know who's behind the projects in Cinci and Sacramento and Detroit and St. Louis and now San Diego?


Billionaire's isn't the problem.

The key here is local corporate non owner support, shown local support for a team and which TV market adds more to the national TV grid for Fox and ESPN. Carolina has that - just needs to drop the trans bill and all will go well.


If had money on who would be the next 3, it would be on Sacramento, Charlotte, & St. Louis. I don't think Miami gets done, which lets in one of Detroit, Cinci or Tampa.

greatwhitenorf
01-25-2017, 10:08 AM
Useful map showing the geographical footprint of MLS now and with projected sites. You can see how Atlanta begins to fill in the biggest gap in MLS, due south of DC.



https://lhstomtom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/mls-map.jpg

greatwhitenorf
01-25-2017, 10:16 AM
None of Charlotte(NBA, NFL), Sacramento(NBA) or St. Louis(MLB, NHL) have saturated sports markets to compete with.

OgtheDim
01-25-2017, 11:26 AM
Well........Sacramento's stadium proposal is a 2 hour drive from Avaya stadium. Those two teams would both be pulling from the same metro area.

Miko
01-25-2017, 11:57 AM
Well........Sacramento's stadium proposal is a 2 hour drive from Avaya stadium. Those two teams would both be pulling from the same metro area.

Not really. People in Sac won't travel to SJ. Too hard to get to. It may seem like a 2 hr drive looking at a map but realistically it's closer to 3 and a half.

The Sac metro area probably doesn't extend much past Fairfield. Anyone living past that wouldn't be part of the Republic's base.

Initial B
01-25-2017, 12:47 PM
None of Charlotte(NBA, NFL), Sacramento(NBA) or St. Louis(MLB, NHL) have saturated sports markets to compete with.
But a St Louis team would have to compete with MLB over the summer. If you were looking at filling Geographic holes and lack of summer sports attendance options, then Nashville would be a better choice. If you are looking purely at TV ratings, then Detroit, Tampa, Sacramento and one of St Louis or Charlotte would get the next 4 slots.

Onyx
01-25-2017, 01:24 PM
charlotte has a ton of competition. college basketball and college football are essentially bigger than pro sports there. Plus their are half dozen big programs within a hour. your competing with 15 teams, not two. it will be like houston/dallas, you will get 3000-8000 at games and never get on local tv newscasts, just too much sports competition.

st. louis is a cardinals town. its poor for other sports. NBA won't even consider going back.

sacramento would be better than columbus. sort of like orlando/RSL with low competition

GlenM
01-25-2017, 01:36 PM
I have been hearing from some people that FC Cincinnati could be of interest in a future expansion to come into MLS.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/soccer/fc-cincinnati/2017/01/24/where-could-fc-cincinnati-build-new-stadium/96947728/


GlenM

OgtheDim
01-25-2017, 03:10 PM
Cinci's problem is its a really small market for National TV and doesn't bring much to the table but a billionaire and a lot of current fans.

greatwhitenorf
01-26-2017, 01:25 PM
charlotte has a ton of competition. college basketball and college football are essentially bigger than pro sports there. Plus their are half dozen big programs within a hour. your competing with 15 teams, not two. it will be like houston/dallas, you will get 3000-8000 at games and never get on local tv newscasts, just too much sports competition.

st. louis is a cardinals town. its poor for other sports. NBA won't even consider going back.

sacramento would be better than columbus. sort of like orlando/RSL with low competition

Inaccurate.

What does exist is hardly a worry. College competition exists in every corner of the USA.

College football in Charlotte is not a big thing. UNC Charlotte does not draw well - mid-teens at best.

The big basketball schools are in Raleigh-Durham. NC and NC State are the bigger draws with 16-18k crowds and 16-17 game skeds from late fall to spring. Duke is a boutique with only 9k or so at their fieldhouse. They only really affect the appeal of the Hornets, who enjoy soft, streaky support at best.

The NFL Panthers draw well, usually north of 70k, and the three main NASCAR events in Charlotte each year pull 100k+ crowds.

Lots of room in Charlotte's sporting calendar for soccer. Too many positives for MLS to overlook with this locale. The public funding portion of the stadium project is halfway to being granted. The county has approved its $44m contribution, the city is still debating. No shock to learn that Democrats are voting for it, Republicans stand opposed.

OgtheDim
01-26-2017, 02:16 PM
St. Louis decides not to hold a referendum on supporting a soccer stadium (http://fox2now.com/2017/01/26/aldermen-consider-soccer-stadium-scottrade-center-and-metrolink-bills/)

Charlotte not happening either it seems

(http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/document-from-1904-says-memorial-stadium-land-should-be-public-park/488014130)

OgtheDim
01-26-2017, 02:40 PM
And St. Louis committee that had turned down a referendum now rejigs everything with higher tax revenues to take back to the full city council

(the fact I can find this all on twitter vaguely scares me)

As somebody said on twitter, it was only mostly dead


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbE8E1ez97M

greatwhitenorf
01-26-2017, 03:19 PM
St. Louis decides not to hold a referendum on supporting a soccer stadium (http://fox2now.com/2017/01/26/aldermen-consider-soccer-stadium-scottrade-center-and-metrolink-bills/)

Charlotte not happening either it seems

(http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/document-from-1904-says-memorial-stadium-land-should-be-public-park/488014130)

They have an old stadium in serious need of repair and refurbishing. That will cost the city many millions, plus on-going upkeep.

Or they spend around $2 million a year for 20 years and get a completely new facility plus a pro soccer team. The county saw the logic and approved their share. The city has delayed its decision. No doubt, they're going to the billionaire Smith family and looking to get sweeteners.

The flip side of the equation is that the Smiths can always remind them that they can move the annual and highly lucrative NASCAR All-Star event out of its traditional home at Charlotte Speedway to one of their other tracks.

OgtheDim
01-31-2017, 07:27 PM
So the list of possible expansion teams to be decide a couple from (we are told) by the end of 2017

Charlotte

Nashville

Indy

Detroit

Phoenix

St. Louis

Raleigh/Durham

San Antonio

Sacramento

Cincy

Tampa

San Diego

greatwhitenorf
01-31-2017, 07:59 PM
At this point, we won't see MLS immediately choose Tampa, San Antone, Raleigh/Durham, Phoenix or Nashville.

Most ready to plug-and-play: Cinci, Sacramento.

Most useful from a long-range corporate standpoint: Charlotte, Nashville - and franchises have to be granted in that order.

On the charts with a bullet: San Diego.

Potential for most fun: Tampa Bay (return of the Rowdies), Detroit

OgtheDim
01-31-2017, 09:23 PM
Plug and play is not what MLS needs/wants. I get the feeling they really don't care if a team/city has been doing well as much as whether they think a team/city can do well.

Biggest thing is the owners, then the ability to expand the TV contract market

I suspect its going to be St. Louis, San Antonio, Charlotte and Nashville.

I gots me a theory why this is going to happen.

Toronto saved MLS - TFC supporters actually saved MLS. Supporter culture wasn't created first by TFC supporters in MLS. But BMO was the first real case of a critical mass of supporter culture invading an MLS game and taking over how the game was followed at a stadium.

Seattle has added its numbers and Portland has added its unique unified voice to the atmosphere. And now NYCFC, of all teams, is adding something uniquely urban and in your face.

Atlanta is going to change things again. Yeah, I know, plastic pitch. But all indications are that the AU fans are a mix of SEC loving southern types with a WHOLE new batch of non-gridiron liking people who just want to support a team. There is a reason why they have been able to sell that many season tickets. Something is going to happen there (we've seen a prototype of this in Orlando) Atlanta is going to show how young diverse and millenial filled the south is. If, as I suspect, that those two stadiums in Atlanta and Orlando are loud raucous happening places, then the South is going to get a boost - and that's going to help Nashville and Charlotte.

And if pro soccer takes off in the South East, the shackles are off the growth in this game in the US.


Edit: if you want a model for this, look at Nashville in the NHL.

greatwhitenorf
01-31-2017, 10:03 PM
You got it, Pontiac. The southeast is a huge area to grow the game. But they have to get it done right the first time.

Sad thing about Charlotte right now is how ugly the stadium debate is becoming along political and racial lines. Republicans are opposed. Amongst those in favour, there are factions who do not want the stadium built in a largely Hispanic and black district in east Charlotte.

If one goes with conventional wisdom about building MLS stadiums in the city core, then that site loses out.

But Charlotte is hardly a well-integrated city. When business took me there, it was astonishing to hear the 'N' word dropped so frequently, as casually as drawing breath, and always in derogatory terms by whites. The preferred stadium site is closer to downtown, but I can't see that middle-class white district being too thrilled about ethnic fans coming into their 'safe' neighbourhoods.

OgtheDim
02-01-2017, 12:13 PM
Sacramento bid DOA

https://twitter.com/SacRepublicFC/status/826836262724202497

Detroit_TFC
02-01-2017, 12:21 PM
If the Sacto bid gets tied up in litigation, it's dunzo. Not sure Donnie Garbs was all that interested proceeding there anyway, had many opportunities to lock this down as a confirmed expansion slot.

OgtheDim
02-01-2017, 12:22 PM
That might be enough to put San Diego into things, although Xolos is a HUGE factor there. Going head to head with a Liga MX team...I just don't think that's a good idea.

molenshtain
02-01-2017, 12:33 PM
I see the Sacramento bid is off to a great start. They've really gone out of their way to capture the spirit and culture of the city already.

Hat's off to all involved.

kodiakTFC
02-09-2017, 01:18 PM
Phoenix info today. Stadium renderings are ridiculous.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/time-to-talk-real-football-is-phoenix-ready-for-a-major-league-soccer-expansion-team-9054666

http://images1.phoenixnewtimes.com/imager/u/745xauto/9054669/bird_view_012617_mls_2017_logo_sewn_into_roof_fabr ic_copy.jpghttp://images1.phoenixnewtimes.com/imager/u/745xauto/9054671/stadium_cropped.jpg

SarniaTFC
02-09-2017, 09:17 PM
Detroit would be great for away trips! Would bring in another close rival

pprzerac
02-10-2017, 01:23 PM
Detroit would be great for away trips! Would bring in another close rival

Detroit would be great for some away games, especially for me driving from London. I just don't know if there is enough support for a team to be viable in Detroit

Redcoe15
02-11-2017, 02:15 AM
Detroit would be great for some away games, especially for me driving from London. I just don't know if there is enough support for a team to be viable in Detroit
Detroit City FC, in the very low NPSL, bring in over 5,000 passionate spectators to their games.

I believe the support for an MLS side is there.

james
02-11-2017, 04:00 PM
MLS struggles with TV ratings across the league. I know teams might look for tv ratings, but myself personally tv ratings might not be the main issue in creating a team that financially can survive. Sponsorships definitely are big part of creating a team. But what has carried TFC for example was bums in the seats + sponsors, while tv ratings have been a struggle. I think many clubs are the same. Is tv ratings in MLS the drive to creating a team in certain markets as much as we make it out to be? is it a huge issue if deciding where to move a new team to a city like st.louis, a new tv market vs Sacramento a team close to an already tv market in San Jose? Does San Jose tv market have much of tv market range outside of the immediate city? To me MLS is very much a regional market across the league for the most part.

Also when deciding to move a team "x city" vs team "y city" have a major issue depending on how many other sports are already located in x city vs y city? Is college pro sports, NBA, MLB exc even competing for the same fans in MLS? My opinion for sure TFC need to compete for some Blue Jay Fans, Raptor fans, Leaf fans exc, but not as much as MLB, NBA and NHL fans compete for the same fans. To some degree I find MLS has more fans coming from a whole new untapped market, just like I think college sports teams are a bit of a different market from the big pro sport leagues in America. I find Leafs and blue Jays fans have more in common then Leafs and TFC do for example.

OgtheDim
02-11-2017, 07:46 PM
MLS struggles with TV ratings across the league. I know teams might look for tv ratings, but myself personally tv ratings might not be the main issue in creating a team that financially can survive. Sponsorships definitely are big part of creating a team. But what has carried TFC for example was bums in the seats + sponsors, while tv ratings have been a struggle. I think many clubs are the same. Is tv ratings in MLS the drive to creating a team in certain markets as much as we make it out to be? is it a huge issue if deciding where to move a new team to a city like st.louis, a new tv market vs Sacramento a team close to an already tv market in San Jose?.....


The TV market is important in order to create a national following and to drive ratings on Fox and ESPN and the Spanish language networks.

Which is why I think St. Louis, if they get a stadium, is a lock, as is one team in North Carolina.

james
02-12-2017, 04:37 PM
The TV market is important in order to create a national following and to drive ratings on Fox and ESPN and the Spanish language networks.

Which is why I think St. Louis, if they get a stadium, is a lock, as is one team in North Carolina.

i know it's just when you look at TFC , a successful team, one of the biggest cities in the league, one of highest attendance in the league, and yet apparently very low tv ratings. Apparently things like bowling can get higher tv ratings then TFC at times. So the tv market in say st.louis, how important to ESPN is it if the ratings at times is so shit? How is that driving a national following when it appears to be such a regional market?

james
02-12-2017, 04:39 PM
Phoenix info today. Stadium renderings are ridiculous.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/time-to-talk-real-football-is-phoenix-ready-for-a-major-league-soccer-expansion-team-9054666

http://images1.phoenixnewtimes.com/imager/u/745xauto/9054669/bird_view_012617_mls_2017_logo_sewn_into_roof_fabr ic_copy.jpghttp://images1.phoenixnewtimes.com/imager/u/745xauto/9054671/stadium_cropped.jpg

in middle of no where?

OgtheDim
02-12-2017, 04:43 PM
i know it's just when you look at TFC , a successful team, one of the biggest cities in the league, one of highest attendance in the league, and yet apparently very low tv ratings. Apparently things like bowling can get higher tv ratings then TFC at times. So the tv market in say st.louis, how important to ESPN is it if the ratings at times is so shit? How is that driving a national following when it appears to be such a regional market?

This chart might help with understanding all this and why those markets are being looked at.


http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

OgtheDim
02-21-2017, 11:13 AM
To add to this discussion, here's a map of the Atlanta TV area.

https://twitter.com/DougRobersonAJC/status/834054350846750720

That's a deep south strategy. Note the towns out of state they are including in the "get to see every Atlanta game" area.

Atlanta wants to be THE team for the South. Do this right and that's a game changer.

greatwhitenorf
04-05-2017, 10:49 AM
St. Louis MLS bid takes a big hit after water-down stadium funding referendum failed to pass.

This whole MLS expansion thing is beginning to get funny. Sacramento falls apart, Charlotte dissolves into an awful spat on ethnic-political lines, now St. Lou blows up.

molenshtain
04-05-2017, 11:39 AM
I think the Sacramento bid eventually got its shit together and got everyone on board. If it stays that way they're a lock for franchise #24.

St. Louis is almost definitely dead now. That's a big loss for the league's expansion plans. They were probably the most ideal next stop for the league market and geography-wise. The field gets pretty thin of sure fire successes once you get past Sac and St. Louis.

North Carolina repealed HB2, so the Charlotte bid looks pretty reasonable now I guess. If I'm betting I'm saying Sac, Charlotte, Phoenix, San Antonio and either Nashville or Indianapolis are the cities that get us to 28.

OgtheDim
04-05-2017, 11:46 AM
North Carolina repealed HB2, so the Charlotte bid looks pretty reasonable now I guess.....

Nope. Repeal in name only. LGBTQ community up in arms - only the NCAA caved. Basically made it worse - cities now can not make legislation to ban discrimination.

MLS going in there would not go over well.

*****

I'm thinking its now Sacramento, Tampa, & Detroit

molenshtain
04-05-2017, 12:01 PM
Nope. Repeal in name only. LGBTQ community up in arms - only the NCAA caved. Basically made it worse - cities now can not make legislation to ban discrimination.

MLS going in there would not go over well.

*****

I'm thinking its now Sacramento, Tampa, & Detroit

No shit eh? serves me right for just reading the headlines I guess. Raleigh/Durham and Charlotte bids still a ways away from the table then I guess.

Detroit has the ownership to put together a team for sure, probably more so than any of the bids currently on the table. But if I'm MLS I'm super wary about the presence of Detroit City FC and the strong possibility they take away core support from the potential team. Dan Gilbert isn't known to be deft at public relations and community outreach to say the least, so I'm not too sure the league goes for Detroit right now.

What's your thinking behind Tampa? I would think the league is still trying to cover markets where they don't have a presence.

OgtheDim
04-05-2017, 01:23 PM
Scuttlebutt to a certain extent but Tampa also has the infrastructure in place with a decent downtown (if slightly weird) stadium, the ownership is solid, and is a built in local rival for Orlando.

Ur right on Detroit but I wouldn't underestimate the pull of those NBA owners.

I wish North Carolina could get that team as the South, as shown by Atlanta, is a huge market for soccer but their legislators are stupid.

Redcoe15
04-05-2017, 08:15 PM
Detroit has the ownership to put together a team for sure, probably more so than any of the bids currently on the table. But if I'm MLS I'm super wary about the presence of Detroit City FC and the strong possibility they take away core support from the potential team. Dan Gilbert isn't known to be deft at public relations and community outreach to say the least, so I'm not too sure the league goes for Detroit right now.
I seriously don't think Garber & Co. are worried about an NPSL side causing trouble and distress for an MLS team in the same market. Besides, the owners of DCFC and a good solid chunk of their fan base don't think an MLS team in Detroit will create trouble for either side. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides got together in some sort of partnership/ownership that would be beneficial for pro soccer in Detroit.

molenshtain
04-06-2017, 03:13 AM
I seriously don't think Garber & Co. are worried about an NPSL side causing trouble and distress for an MLS team in the same market. Besides, the owners of DCFC and a good solid chunk of their fan base don't think an MLS team in Detroit will create trouble for either side. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides got together in some sort of partnership/ownership that would be beneficial for pro soccer in Detroit.


Generally I would agree with you. MLS shouldn't be worried about expanding into cities that already have smaller lower league presences - it certainly wasn't a problem in Atlanta for instance. But DCFC is a different animal entirely. Along with Chattanooga they're probably the best run/best supported semi-pro team in the country. They're also entirely fan owned and very community oriented and they take that very seriously (they just raised 750k to refurbish their stadium). They're steadfast in their unwillingness to be bought out. They're very well liked in the community and they're probably a big enough presence in Detroit that if MLS were to piss them off it could drive away a lot of people.

It's a likelihood an MLS team in Detroit isn't viable because the well has already been poisoned, so to speak. The piece below lays it out in depth.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/12/12919610/detroit-city-fc-soccer-mls

Redcoe15
04-06-2017, 04:20 AM
Generally I would agree with you. MLS shouldn't be worried about expanding into cities that already have smaller lower league presences - it certainly wasn't a problem in Atlanta for instance. But DCFC is a different animal entirely. Along with Chattanooga they're probably the best run/best supported semi-pro team in the country. They're also entirely fan owned and very community oriented and they take that very seriously (they just raised 750k to refurbish their stadium). They're steadfast in their unwillingness to be bought out. They're very well liked in the community and they're probably a big enough presence in Detroit that if MLS were to piss them off it could drive away a lot of people.

It's a likelihood an MLS team in Detroit isn't viable because the well has already been poisoned, so to speak. The piece below lays it out in depth.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/12/12919610/detroit-city-fc-soccer-mls

Detroit's one of the major league cities in America, both in surrounding metro population and sports, something Chattanooga is not. The idea of an NPSL side that plays seven regular season home games in a 7,000 seat stadium at $10 per ticket can easily crush a competing MLS franchise in a city as big as Detroit is, to say the least, laughable. Especially when there's NBA money behind the bid.

molenshtain
04-06-2017, 01:52 PM
Sorry I should have been more clear. I don't disagree that a new MLS team in Detroit would immediately do better commercially than the NPSL team - of course it would. My point was that creating a new team with Gilbert as the owner - he has to be the most hated man in the midwest - would not be a viable long term option in Detroit. The grassroots outreach would be negligible and ignored. The fans would be mostly fair-weather and interest would dwindle not long after the team's inception. Putting a new team there would piss off a lot of people on the ground - thousands of potential hardcore supporters - that I would imagine MLS would much rather have on their side where they to start a new team there.

Remember how everyone freaked out about the Sac bid being DOA after it looked like they weren't bringing the Republic along with them? It would be like that, but much worse.

Redcoe15
04-06-2017, 06:11 PM
Sorry I should have been more clear. I don't disagree that a new MLS team in Detroit would immediately do better commercially than the NPSL team - of course it would. My point was that creating a new team with Gilbert as the owner - he has to be the most hated man in the midwest - would not be a viable long term option in Detroit. The grassroots outreach would be negligible and ignored. The fans would be mostly fair-weather and interest would dwindle not long after the team's inception. Putting a new team there would piss off a lot of people on the ground - thousands of potential hardcore supporters - that I would imagine MLS would much rather have on their side where they to start a new team there.

Remember how everyone freaked out about the Sac bid being DOA after it looked like they weren't bringing the Republic along with them? It would be like that, but much worse.
From what I understand about the bid, Dan Gilbert would stay in the background looking after most of the business end, while Pistons owner Tom Gores would, for all intents and purposes, be the face of ownership. There was a front page write up about him last year in one of the Detroit papers about his love for soccer and how it would translate for him as an MLS owner. Gores would be the one trying to connect with fans and supporters in the city. The vital part where ownership and fans come together. I doubt Gilbert has that touch to make it happen and he would know it.

These DCFC supporters you point out come off as the type of entitled purity snots that think they own full territorial rights to the Metro Detroit soccer scene and that no one should come in on their turf without their permission. Not even MLS. There's no reason why there can't be both a DCFC team and an MLS Detroit team. Why should all fans in that city be forced to get behind a team that plays in a league with less than stellar talent against the likes of a Dayton, Ann Arbor or Kalamazoo when there is an opportunity to join a league with far better talent and play against the New Yorks, the LAs and the Torontos, like fans of other Detroit sports teams have been accustomed to for decades? And why wouldn't any MLS Detroit supporters groups replicate the same passion that DCFC supporters do at their home games?

The idea that Detroit would fail as an MLS market because soccer fans there don't find it pure enough for their liking is a giant pile of bollocks. Someone needs to serve them some cheese with that whine of theirs.

james
04-12-2017, 06:16 AM
Detroit's one of the major league cities in America, both in surrounding metro population and sports, something Chattanooga is not. The idea of an NPSL side that plays seven regular season home games in a 7,000 seat stadium at $10 per ticket can easily crush a competing MLS franchise in a city as big as Detroit is, to say the least, laughable. Especially when there's NBA money behind the bid.

Yes, but a very spread out sprawl city with a very poor actual Detroit city, with even very poor outter towns. A lot of American cites generally have sprawl but Detroit is a hurting one. 1950 almost 2 million people, today 680,000 in a 370km area compared to Toronto now with 2.7 million in 630km or an estimate over 800,000 people in Toronto in the "old Toronto" area (or make it simple old Toronto does not include any of the boroughs population like North York, Etobicoke, Scarborough, exc.) in only 95km area. Overall Detroit city and outter parts of the city are hurting to say the least despite its total "Metro" population as being large. It's a risk. That said it's not like it's all poor, there is money to but it's got it's problem no doubt.

todortonchev
04-13-2017, 02:01 PM
It would be nice if there are more canadian teams into consideration. I guess for now this could only be either Ottawa (few team already in the area) or Edmonton (way to north I guess).
Not sure why these two teams don't push for MLS or even Calgary.

Redcoe15
04-13-2017, 05:30 PM
Yes, but a very spread out sprawl city with a very poor actual Detroit city, with even very poor outter towns. A lot of American cites generally have sprawl but Detroit is a hurting one. 1950 almost 2 million people, today 680,000 in a 370km area compared to Toronto now with 2.7 million in 630km or an estimate over 800,000 people in Toronto in the "old Toronto" area (or make it simple old Toronto does not include any of the boroughs population like North York, Etobicoke, Scarborough, exc.) in only 95km area. Overall Detroit city and outter parts of the city are hurting to say the least despite its total "Metro" population as being large. It's a risk. That said it's not like it's all poor, there is money to but it's got it's problem no doubt.

Then why have some of the local major league teams, like the Lions and, just recently, the Pistons, decided to move back into the poor core?

Redcoe15
04-13-2017, 05:34 PM
It would be nice if there are more canadian teams into consideration. I guess for now this could only be either Ottawa (few team already in the area) or Edmonton (way to north I guess).
Not sure why these two teams don't push for MLS or even Calgary.

I'm guessing not big enough and too congested with NHL and CFL teams dominating the local attention and sponsorship dollars. Plus, MLS would like to have more larger U.S. markets to attract a better U.S. TV deal. I think we should count our blessings that we have three Canadian teams in a 23 team league.

molenshtain
04-13-2017, 07:54 PM
Then why have some of the local major league teams, like the Lions and, just recently, the Pistons, decided to move back into the poor core?

Because the state and city legislature's have decided - despite the fact that the city is bankrupt - it's somehow in everyone's interest to give absolutely massive tax breaks/incentives to billionaire's. There's very little in it or the city. If the city/state wasn't handing out almost a billion dollars to private investors there wouldn't be a new Arena.

The U.S. has a lot of really shitty public-private stadium deals. The new Detroit one is up there for being the most blatantly evil, craven one of them all. When crap like this is par for the course, it's understandable where the DCFC fans are coming from with their general unwillingness to have anything to do with private ownership.

Redcoe15
04-13-2017, 08:24 PM
Because the state and city legislature's have decided - despite the fact that the city is bankrupt - it's somehow in everyone's interest to give absolutely massive tax breaks/incentives to billionaire's. There's very little in it or the city. If the city/state wasn't handing out almost a billion dollars to private investors there wouldn't be a new Arena.

The U.S. has a lot of really shitty public-private stadium deals. The new Detroit one is up there for being the most blatantly evil, craven one of them all. When crap like this is par for the course, it's understandable where the DCFC fans are coming from with their general unwillingness to have anything to do with private ownership.

Which is why Detroit City FC is looking for private investors to take it to a professional Division 3 level.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170409/NEWS/170409869/detroit-city-fc-bid-to-turn-pro-hinges-on-outside-investment

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

⚒WHUFC⚒
04-19-2017, 07:23 AM
Hello. I'm new-ish to the forum and this is my first post. I'm from England but Toronto is my team in the MLS (my GF is local)

I really enjoy the MLS and it's so refreshing in some areas compared to the BPL and I'm keen to see it continue to grow in a similar fashion.

This post isn't about the future of clubs expansion like many posts... more so the future of the rules regarding salary caps and designated player rules. (It took me some time to figure out but I've nailed it now!)

One area I really think needs to be addressed is that currently players on low wages with bags of potential will be poached by European clubs. For example Cyle Larin has been constantly linked with a move away and even says he wants to one day play in the BPL (I'd have him at West Ham in a heartbeat compared to the over paid dross we constantly sign!!) it would be very sad to see him leave the MLS especially if he never gets a chance to play in Canada. Obviously it would affect the national team too especially if he's not getting minutes in the merry go round of the BPL.

It's not just Larin. Let's use Acosta & Zimmerman at Dallas or Morris at Seattle, even Adams at New York.

In my opinion there needs to be some changes made to ensure players like this stay in North America and continue to develop and for the national teams. I think the best way to do that is to introduce an expanded DP rule for Canadian/US players only. (Obviously increasing overall salary caps would help too) but I'd like to see the MLS proactively setup some rules to retain these types of players before they're sold off.

A move to BPL never helped Henry at West Ham!

molenshtain
04-19-2017, 10:17 AM
Hello. I'm new-ish to the forum and this is my first post. I'm from England but Toronto is my team in the MLS (my GF is local)

I really enjoy the MLS and it's so refreshing in some areas compared to the BPL and I'm keen to see it continue to grow in a similar fashion.

This post isn't about the future of clubs expansion like many posts... more so the future of the rules regarding salary caps and designated player rules. (It took me some time to figure out but I've nailed it now!)

One area I really think needs to be addressed is that currently players on low wages with bags of potential will be poached by European clubs. For example Cyle Larin has been constantly linked with a move away and even says he wants to one day play in the BPL (I'd have him at West Ham in a heartbeat compared to the over paid dross we constantly sign!!) it would be very sad to see him leave the MLS especially if he never gets a chance to play in Canada. Obviously it would affect the national team too especially if he's not getting minutes in the merry go round of the BPL.

It's not just Larin. Let's use Acosta & Zimmerman at Dallas or Morris at Seattle, even Adams at New York.

In my opinion there needs to be some changes made to ensure players like this stay in North America and continue to develop and for the national teams. I think the best way to do that is to introduce an expanded DP rule for Canadian/US players only. (Obviously increasing overall salary caps would help too) but I'd like to see the MLS proactively setup some rules to retain these types of players before they're sold off.

A move to BPL never helped Henry at West Ham!

ahoy! always glad to engage a convert from across the pond.

The league has in fact taken steps to address the potential issue you bring up. This past off-season the league gave each team a 'Homegrown allocation fund'. It allows you to offer your homegrown players a more lucrative deal than average in order to keep them from potentially going to Europe before they play a game for you. It's how Seattle managed to keep Jordan Morris last year. TFC is currently negotiating a similar deal with a very well regarded prospect named Ayo Akinola, though it's looking like he already has one foot out the door.

In terms of the benefits of of having our best young players stay in the league once we have them... I'm dubious as to the benefits for the club or the player. In an ideal world itd be nice to keep those guys, but if the league wants to grow in stature it's going to need to become a league that can churn out players that can be sold and compete in the top 5 leagues routinely before we can think about keeping them long term. the league is going to need to become like the eredivisie before it can be the bundesliga or the premier league.

as for it being better for the players to stay, it's a mixed bag but as the league gets better so too will the results of the young players we send across. you Have your Henry's (tbf he's more injury ridden than not up to par - he was very good in limited minutes for Blackburn IIRC) and your Shea's and whatnot. But you also now have your Yedlin's and your Miazga's, both of whom will be at the very least rotation players on premier league clubs next year. Larin and Acosta will outgrow this league and be starting in the PL within two years as well. Eventually these kids are going to get stars in their eyes and leave for greener pastures. At some point it becomes detrimental for both the players and the league to try and keep those guys here long term. You might stunt their progress and you hide the talent we have here by not selling them on.

There will be a tier of guys below the best though - like the Zimmerman's of the league - who will likely stay in the league for their careers and be paid handsomely, perhaps even DP money. Some teams have been starting to give smaller DP contracts that can be bought down to good domestic players (Besler and Zusi in Kansas, Gonzalez in LA etc.).

As the quality of players we produce continues to get exponentially better so too will the league and the fortunes of the players who leave. But The league is getting to a point where it's starting to continuously produce players who they will not be able to give them the money or exposure they deserve in the short term. It'll be a decade probably before we can think about keeping those high end talents from crossing the pond, no real way around it.

⚒WHUFC⚒
04-19-2017, 12:47 PM
Ah that's great..maybe I haven't nailed your rules as much as I thought I had but I was aware of Morris situation from the highlights show we have here...just not the fund it come from. It's a good step in the right direction. It would be good to see some North Americans return too...but once they are on silly wages over here I don't blame them for sticking around.

What is great about a salary cap is as a regular at BPL matches I have seen some second string players on double what most DP MLS wages get... and they simply haven't got the attitude to play for the shirt because they know they are comfortable in a long term contract, earning millions and will move on and repeat it elsewhere. Whereas I see some players putting in shifts in the MLS and grafting hard despite earning salaries not even Chelsea 16 year olds would take on. I have more respect for guys like Morrow and Hagglund than I have for most of West Ham's players who are on outrageous wages. You've got players with heart even if they aren't as talented...and that's what fans want to see. I think that's a result of the tough competition to earn your wages.

Another thing is you actually have a wide range of clubs who have something to play for. West Ham are out of a title chase before the first whistle of the season. It's depressing. I know friends who even enjoy the thought of relegation in hope of winning a trophy to get back up! England used to have different winners until Man Utd Chelsea and Man City sucked the life out of it. There's not much rules to enforce. Even our youth are foreign on high wages.

Ultimately the main thing for me is the fans...That's why you guys could easily become one of the top leagues in the world. In my opinion the passion and encouragement at a few clubs is streets ahead of English football no question. Flares, flags, regular chants and now safe standing. What a breath of fresh air! In England you'd be arrested for flares, banned from the stadiums as a result, flags can be removed by stewards, and a drum?! You wouldn't get passed the stadium security. We've lost what football is all about here...and as long as you keep doing what you're doing you'll be a top league soon enough.

Back to the topic I'd like to see Cincinnati as an expansion club in the MLS. There's potential there for sure.... and sorry but the thought of 'Miami Beckham'...please don't go for it. I'd read that's the team name. It's pathetic. No wonder he's struggling to get it done.

Ideally I'd like to see a few more Canadian clubs but sounds like it could be too late unless they form a second tier. I know Ottawa and Edmonton have a half decent setup but what about other cities? Calgary? Quebec?

Initial B
04-20-2017, 12:24 PM
The CSA is looking at starting a Canadian Premier League that would include cities like Calgary, Hamilton, and Ottawa. I've even heard Halifax and Regina being thrown around. Hopefully we'll know a little bit more about them soon because supposedly they're going to announce something in May. However, I've heard rumors of announcements before and they've falen through. That makes me think there are significant hurdles to be overcome still.

OgtheDim
04-22-2017, 06:27 AM
Anybody else see the article where LAFC claimed to be setting the bar for the rest of the league?

Shakes McQueen
04-22-2017, 06:49 AM
Cleaned up some needless hostility, and the follow-up posts about it (since they'd make no sense without context).

OgtheDim
05-17-2017, 07:07 PM
So TL is pitching the latest Miami stadium idea.

Nice rendering but only one problem.

No parking.

But....


https://twitter.com/doug_hanks/status/864976298657107975




https://twitter.com/doug_hanks/status/864977591391879170

General Woolfe
05-18-2017, 03:52 AM
Portland seem to be making a mess of things imho. $50M to add only 4,000 seats. Apparently they are on a really cramped site which won't allow for better expansion. Also the site is supposedly situated over an underwater river which makes real grass an impossibility. If ever a club should have looked at relocation to a new site it's Portland, I can't believe they haven't chosen this route and a brand new stadium. Surely a new build wouldn't be far off $50M and would offer greater rewards for them than throwing money at a poor location?

OgtheDim
05-18-2017, 05:52 AM
The current supporter make up of Portland is heavy on transit and bike use. If they moved to the burbs (and there isn't much land in their burbs left), they would lose most of their supporter base.

Initial B
05-18-2017, 09:12 AM
TFC spent $120 million to add 10,000 seats, so Portland numbers sound in line.

Richard
05-18-2017, 02:41 PM
TFC spent $120 million to add 10,000 seats, so Portland numbers sound in line.

We added roofs and winterized the stadium, thats significanly different.

Areathrasher
05-18-2017, 03:08 PM
4,000 seats and various hospitality areas/lounges.

PizzaEatingYeti
05-18-2017, 04:46 PM
Portland seem to be making a mess of things imho. $50M to add only 4,000 seats. Apparently they are on a really cramped site which won't allow for better expansion. Also the site is supposedly situated over an underwater river which makes real grass an impossibility. If ever a club should have looked at relocation to a new site it's Portland, I can't believe they haven't chosen this route and a brand new stadium. Surely a new build wouldn't be far off $50M and would offer greater rewards for them than throwing money at a poor location?

When will ever forbid MLS the use of plastic pitches in any MLS team's stadium?

MLS will never be a serious league until all stadiums have grass pitch.
(Probably 60% of all forum members will disagree with this.
Hey, think about this: In the whole world outside MLS plastic pitches for footy are just in places which have a harsh cold climate, which does not permit a proper grass pitch.)

OgtheDim
05-18-2017, 06:30 PM
FWIW, most EPL pitches are moving to hybrid and the non leagues are all buying full plastic (3G as its called). Too much rain over the winter. Its coming to the lower leagues as well because full grass is just too darn expensive.

Gazza_55
05-18-2017, 11:51 PM
Portland seem to be making a mess of things imho. $50M to add only 4,000 seats. Apparently they are on a really cramped site which won't allow for better expansion. Also the site is supposedly situated over an underwater river which makes real grass an impossibility. If ever a club should have looked at relocation to a new site it's Portland, I can't believe they haven't chosen this route and a brand new stadium. Surely a new build wouldn't be far off $50M and would offer greater rewards for them than throwing money at a poor location?

The river doesn't make grass impossible. The lack of sunlight is a bigger obstacle but that can be fixed with grow lights. The Timbers owner wants the college football team to pay half of the installation and upkeep of real grass. The school said no. Nothing will change there until star players say they aren't playing in Portland because the turf is garbage.

Initial B
05-19-2017, 11:56 AM
But there was an article just recently saying how Portland's turf was probably the best in the league in terms of quality and how they change it out every two years. They said players were quoted waying if they had to play on turf, they would rather play in Portland than anywhere else.

C.Ronaldo
05-19-2017, 12:26 PM
i hate turf but I'll say this. It beats playing on dirt which is what my dad grew up playing on in semi tropical madeira.

It blew my mind when first flew over it as a kid, now plastic is the standard and grass for the pros. (but the grass quality is pretty bad during the rainy seasons)


Anyone else notice the amount of sand kicking up last game a BMO? the ball was bouncing oddly

Redcoe15
07-31-2017, 05:50 PM
Looks like Wayne County officials have decided to negotiate with Dan Gilbert over the jail site in downtown Detroit.

Wayne County moves forward with Gilbert's jail proposal - but not a done deal yet (http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/07/31/wayne-county-moves-forward-gilberts-jail-proposal-but-not-done-deal-yet/524955001/)

If this all pans out, we could be having a new rival to hate. And a trip and back to Detroit all in one day.

molenshtain
07-31-2017, 06:04 PM
Oh god. Having Gilbert as an owner is worse than the krafts. He's not just insanely cheap but a genuinely terrible person.

I've driven by that jail too. It's absolutely fucking massive. Way more than enough on that lot to build a stadium.

OgtheDim
07-31-2017, 06:44 PM
Soooo...running it as the home of Michigan High school football games rather then an NFL home like Foxboro.

High school football practices have started in the States - watch for issues with the Dynamo stadium in the next few months. And then if Detroit gets a team, don't be surprised.

*************


If I had to bet on the first two teams, it would be Sacramento and Nashville. Sacramento is a lock for sure. I'm thinking Nashville is just a bit more of a known as far as local support. The USSF basically had a USMNT game there the other week as a trial balloon and it went over well. The whole Predator thing and the fact that Ingram is behind it.