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Shakes McQueen
12-10-2016, 11:33 PM
Well,

We were defeated via the exercise in pure chance that is soccer penalties, but we can hold our heads high that we outplayed them for the majority of that 120 minutes, even if we ultimately couldn't slip one by them.

I just wanted to create this thread for people to share their thoughts about this playoffs, this final, and this season. The Final loss aside, I think we have to feel pretty great about this team going forward. They really came into their own in the post-season, they all seem to love our coach, and Altidore has really found himself again.

So here's to the 2016 Reds. Thanks for one of the best sporting nights of my life, in the 2nd leg against MTL. Thanks for finally rewarding us as fans, after the years of drudgery and cynicism.

sn0re
12-10-2016, 11:37 PM
It sure has been a good season. Personally I didn't think we would make it this far in the playoffs (maybe conference semis?). It will be interesting to see what happens in the off-season given the expansion draft and the re-entry draft

T-boy
12-11-2016, 12:48 AM
Altidore has become a solid favourite, he had an outstanding end to the season. Seba was great but tailed off at the end of the season or some reason (tiredness, maybe he doesn't like the cold weather games?).

Also I think Zavaleta has been most improved through the season - I'm not sure how many times I shouted "great tackle Zavaleta" through the playoffs.

ensco
12-11-2016, 01:05 AM
Sports is so often about tiny fractions and what ifs.

Morrow missed his PK by a hair's breadth. Ricketts' misfire on that volley in extra time, Altidore's looping header being scooped off the line ... we will take those to the grave.

Seba. He was off because the cold had a huge impact on the game. Lodeiro was invisible too, same as Osorio, and all the skill guys ex maybe Cooper. Nobody on either side got a single clean shot off during the game, even in PKs only Lodeiro and Morrow really got hold of the ball.

Seattle played for penalties and it worked. It looked like there was a sniper at the game the way their guys went down and stayed down.

I effing hate losing this way though. A plain old loss I would be more philosophical, but this is the worst.

notthesun
12-11-2016, 01:13 AM
Giovinco apparently asked for the sub. I don't think he completely healed from his late season injury. Enough to play and even play well, but all the minutes caught up to him.

It was a combination of not creating quite enough, not being able to finish the few chances we made, and having bad luck on top of it. We were and are the better team, but the better team doesn't always win.

This sucks. We need to make it back next year.

pprzerac
12-11-2016, 03:24 AM
Thanks for the great season. We are no longer the bottom feeders of the MLS. TFC till I die!!!

James17930
12-11-2016, 07:01 AM
I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?

reggie
12-11-2016, 07:33 AM
finals always seem to be a lock down kinda of game.im ok in how we played.
only a month before training camp i hope this club doesnt have a hangover like most clubs do after a run like this.

Auzzy
12-11-2016, 07:39 AM
I was nervous before the final, but strangely not so excited. I think it was hard to beat the experience vs. Montreal, the ups & downs over two legs, and especially the 2nd game in Toronto of course. Also the series vs. NYC before that -- I can barely remember it, but it was great. I was worried that the final would be a grind, and it was.

First thing this morning, I wanted to listen to Legend TFC.
https://www.reverbnation.com/redcityramblers/song/3790594-legend-tfc

PAOK17
12-11-2016, 07:40 AM
I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?I was having the same debate with people around me. The first two subs guaranteed that we weren't going to lose unless we went to penalties. It might have been better had we made only one of those subs and then brought in Rickets to ensure we didn't have to go to penalties. But really when Cheyrou and Johnson both came on they didn't really make any real threat in our half.

At the end of the day, this doesn't feel like a loss because what did we do to lose? Or better yet, what did Seattle do to beat us?

I would have gone with Rickets earlier because I've seen this script before. Team dominates the game only to lose on penalties (btw I've said this for a while now but soccer really needs to figure a better way of settling games than this-replays are the best but that would never happen. Unlimited rolling subs in extra time? I don't know).

On a more general note, we shouldn't be too disappointed for the year. We could have easily won the Supporters Shield with our talent. We also defeated our biggest rival in the most exciting 2-legged series this league has ever seen. Look at NYRB. Consistently at the top of the table for the past 7 seasons and no MLS Cups.

tfcleeds
12-11-2016, 08:50 AM
Hasn't really sunk in until now that we lost the Cup Final at home. So disappointing. I really thought there was only going to be one outcome last night, that we would emerge victorious. But things happen. All the same, I want to congratulate TFC on a great season - a season we'd been waiting 10 years for. They made us believe again, and I would prefer to think that this isn't the end, but only the beginning of something great.

ensco
12-11-2016, 08:52 AM
I just keep seeing that Frei save over and over again.

Shakes McQueen
12-11-2016, 09:05 AM
Sports is so often about tiny fractions and what ifs.

Morrow missed his PK by a hair's breadth. Ricketts' misfire on that volley in extra time, Altidore's looping header being scooped off the line ... we will take those to the grave.

Seba. He was off because the cold had a huge impact on the game. Lodeiro was invisible too, same as Osorio, and all the skill guys ex maybe Cooper. Nobody on either side got a single clean shot off during the game, even in PKs only Lodeiro and Morrow really got hold of the ball.

Seattle played for penalties and it worked. It looked like there was a sniper at the game the way their guys went down and stayed down.

I effing hate losing this way though. A plain old loss I would be more philosophical, but this is the worst.

This was pretty much my reaction too - the cold weather must have seriously affected Seba's game, as this would have been his first serious exposure to it (since obviously we never made it this deep before). Hopefully it's something he can acclimate to, to some extent.

And losing a 0-0 game to penalties is just the worst. Like you said, I'd have almost preferred a concise loss, over this coin flip.

whositwhatnow
12-11-2016, 09:08 AM
I just keep seeing that Frei save over and over again.

save of the year

Canary10
12-11-2016, 09:13 AM
Giovinco apparently asked for the sub. I don't think he completely healed from his late season injury. Enough to play and even play well, but all the minutes caught up to him.

It was a combination of not creating quite enough, not being able to finish the few chances we made, and having bad luck on top of it. We were and are the better team, but the better team doesn't always win.

This sucks. We need to make it back next year.

He was slamming shit when he came off. I don't know. Those subs just seemed strange to me.

C.Ronaldo
12-11-2016, 09:20 AM
Cheyrou was an odd sub to make so early. Then to ask hik to press so high was also odd. Cold was a factor, but the poor reffing killed any skill on the night. Bear hugs, hand grabbing, short pulling was the theme on the night.

The ball didn't bounce our way either

PS field didnt look as good as we'd had hoped it would. An earlier winter and argos in playoffs would have destroyed it

Im not too gutted we lost on PKs. It was pretty obvious what Seattle was aiming for. They can have it if thats the way its won. I'll take the Montreal vs Toronto as the best game in mls history

Auzzy
12-11-2016, 09:27 AM
He was slamming shit when he came off. I don't know. Those subs just seemed strange to me.

He was slamming shit because he's a competitor, wanted to keep going, but couldn't.

"It’s not like I take him off because I want to," Vanney said. "I look at him and he gives me the sign he can’t go anymore. When he feels like he can’t go, then he feels like he’s more of a liability to the group than anything."
https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2...r-mls-cup.html (https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/12/10/sounders-beat-toronto-fc-for-mls-cup.html)

Canary10
12-11-2016, 09:41 AM
He was slamming shit because he's a competitor, wanted to keep going, but couldn't.

"It’s not like I take him off because I want to," Vanney said. "I look at him and he gives me the sign he can’t go anymore. When he feels like he can’t go, then he feels like he’s more of a liability to the group than anything."
https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2...r-mls-cup.html (https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/12/10/sounders-beat-toronto-fc-for-mls-cup.html)

He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

theaub
12-11-2016, 09:58 AM
I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?

I didn't mind Johnson for Osorio, but the second you don't go to Ricketts with the second sub that means you're taking off a DP or defender if you want him on. Considering how it was pretty clear from the off that Seattle was playing for penalties it was rather baffling to go to Cheyrou. Basically just playing into their hands.

Even more disappointing when Ricketts came on and we almost immediately had two of our best chances of the match. The what-if for me of this entire match will be if you had Ricketts running at their defenders from the 75th-80th minute onwards instead of the 100th

flatpicker
12-11-2016, 10:04 AM
He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

Such a tough call when there was still so much game left to be played.
I think the right decision was made.

flatpicker
12-11-2016, 10:09 AM
I am so thankful to TFC for an exciting season. It was a wild ride.
Here's hoping they can stay healthy next season and dominate.

Losing in a shootout is a tough way to go down,
but sports do their sporty thing sometimes.

Honestly, if it had to be a team other than Toronto,
I'm ok with it being Seattle that takes the Cup
because I respect their passionate fan base.

Huge props to the team for working their butts off this year.

And big thanks to all of you.
It's been a blast going on this journey with you all.
BMO has never been more electric than it was this year.
Let's keep the passion going into next season.

ensco
12-11-2016, 10:16 AM
Such a tough call when there was still so much game left to be played.
I think the right decision was made.

Ricketts created two great scoring chances. We were millimeters away from the subs being genius moves.

The problem with a Ricketts for Osorio move earlier is that Seattle was more dangerous on the counter than the boxscore suggests, they almost sprung Morris 3 or 4 times, and going 3-4-3 would have been a big gamble.

It's so easy to be a Sunday morning second guesser.

Canary10
12-11-2016, 10:19 AM
I just keep my best penalty takers on the pitch. There was only 15 minutes to go at that point.

Carter
12-11-2016, 10:21 AM
He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

You have zero clue what was going on in his body, to make this assumption. Strained calf? Torn muscle? You are right about so many what ifs. But truth of the matter is that he saw himself as a liability and wanted to be taken off.

Carter
12-11-2016, 10:23 AM
I just keep my best penalty takers on the pitch. There was only 15 minutes to go at that point.
And what if he couldn't kick?

TFC07
12-11-2016, 10:25 AM
Disappointed how things ended, but it was a great season for TFC that got people attention.

Toronto-Montreal series will go down as one of best playoffs series ever.

Next season TFC should be playoff team and probably even stronger team with experience they have now to play in big games. Plus TAM available, we are going to have a chance to sign really good player who can just make TFC even better team.

To supporters and diehards, this is just beginning of something special and I feel like there will be more people supporting TFC in this country now.

Shakes McQueen
12-11-2016, 10:30 AM
I just keep my best penalty takers on the pitch. There was only 15 minutes to go at that point.

If he was that pissed and still motioned to be subbed off, then he was in pain. I'm not going to second guess the decision.

Loyal
12-11-2016, 10:31 AM
Seattle - "Zero" shots on goal for 120 minutes

No luck at all at their end

Sometimes great teams lose to "learn how to win"

StokeciTFC
12-11-2016, 10:50 AM
Well, it was a season that showed us all just how high the highs can be and how lows the lows are. Never seen a season put me through such a range of emotions, including as a Stoke fan.

We can and should all come away from this season with a few positives though, because what we have had to suffer previously renders this by far our most positive season to date.

We can come into 2017 with the knowledge that our faith is not misplaced, that we now know that our TFC is a real contender. Not perfect by any means, but a serious contender. That will make the off-season an intriguing prospect, as it will season 2017.

We now have belief. Belief that we are capable of achieving and also the belief in our players - to see the games played by Altidore and Bradley after many of us had written one or both of them off. We now know what they can do. Seba can and will come good again after a lacklustre three games.

But it's not just our DPs, we've witnessed wonderful performances from all of our starting line up and furthermore some fine cameos to cover injuries; some tremendous moments from Bono and those valuable goals from Hamilton spring immediately to mind.

Did we ever think we'd be able to hold belief in our coaching staff? Now we can, with the both many of the tactical decisions made in-game and the strategic acquisitions. A fine job in my opinion.

Memories. Don't forget the memories. We could never forget the memories of this standout season. So, so many. The obvious ones are 'that' game against Montreal - remember that feeling - we will feel it again. The Beatdown in the Bronx was simply magnificent. Johnson's last-ditch goal in Vancouver. They might be the primary ones but there are so many to covet and reminisce about for decades to come. We are building a history for ourselves with these moments.

We have proven to the city, the country and the continent the calibre of our fanbase, and what potential and enthusiasm for football exists here.

We have come a long, long way.

Leedsoronto
12-11-2016, 11:09 AM
Let's not forget

""""""Toronto FC are the Eastern Champions""""

that is an achievement worthy of praise

ensco
12-11-2016, 11:11 AM
Seattle deserve respect. They played a tight, compact game, and while they were time wasting, they also tried to score on the counter with Morris (tell me every last one of you didn't have a near heart attack the 3 or 4 times that Morris was charging one on one down the flank).

It doesn't show in the boxscore, this is a problem with stats in soccer, but it worked.

Alonso and Marshall and Frei were all magnificent. (I don't think I really appreciated Alonso until last night - he played like Claude Makelele, on one leg.)

We could have won, should have won, but I wouldn't discount what Seattle did. They played a cold weather road game plan, to perfection, especially over the 90 minutes. Our best chances didn't come until added and extra time - and Seattle put themselves in position where lady luck could swing it, late.

I am not bitter, but I am gutted.

ManUtd4ever
12-11-2016, 11:20 AM
The boys have no reason to hang their heads. We dominated the match from start to finish and just couldn't bury one. Frei came back to haunt us when it mattered most.

Penalty kicks are a crap shoot, and a terrible way to lose, especially when you thoroughly outplay the opponent, but it is what it is. Hopefully, we will be in the position to have another crack at it within the next few years while our core is intact.

Thank you for a tremendous run TFC. It was a wild ride, and the victory over Montreal in the Conference Finals still goes a long way towards healing last night's wounds.

stevep
12-11-2016, 11:23 AM
This was pretty much my reaction too - the cold weather must have seriously affected Seba's game, as this would have been his first serious exposure to it (since obviously we never made it this deep before). Hopefully it's something he can acclimate to, to some extent.

And losing a 0-0 game to penalties is just the worst. Like you said, I'd have almost preferred a concise loss, over this coin flip.

no i disagree, it would have been far worse and devastating and disappointing to lose 2-0,2-1 or some other real score in real time or even in the extra time when we were the favoured team going in to the game.

I really don't consider this a loss, i don't. it was a tie game that we dominated.

we were then asked to play another game a game of who can score the most penalty kicks, each team gets five, that game we lost
I wouldn't be really happy today if we won that penalty kick game,

ManUtd4ever
12-11-2016, 11:27 AM
He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

I love Seba but he was off last night, unable to penetrate and conceding possession the entire match. Credit to him for signalling to Vanney that he couldn't continue. He could have made the difference in PKs but I understand Vanney's decision to try and seal the game in regulation by bringing Ricketts in...and it almost worked. Ricketts set up Altidore for that header that resulted in a heartbreaking save by Frei, and he came within inches of scoring the winner himself in extra time.

jazzy
12-11-2016, 11:27 AM
Not a huge Bradley supporter , but I am now . He was a monster saving players ass throughout the game . He simply over thought the PK . And hats off to Vanney , although he unfortunately was too late introducing Rickettes , his game plan was WIN the game . If he sat back and played not to lose a la Seattle the game ( I think we'd have won), would have been simply horrid . As it was , many were saying it wasn't not an exciting final anyway . Ref , Kelly was trying to prove a point in showing the league this is how to ref a game . Unfortunately he did more harm to MLS by not protecting the 'skilled' players allowing them freedom to exhibit their talent . It was like past hockey where clutch and grab was the norm . With the world watching how many skilled players would be attracted to that final ? Everything was perfect all week for Seattle , the perfect underdog role , including Frei . These points seemed to be certainly forgotten . The team were not 'old' TFC , I've been kicked in the gut but , proud of the team and the class we showed Seattle fans . Well done . Nothing's easy for Canada's most critiqued city , Fook em we have an amazing foundation now , We're here to stay . PS , can we stop the high looping balls to a lone Gio . Wasted . Peace in the holidays . Amazing TIFO .

noimpactinmtl
12-11-2016, 11:31 AM
Ricketts created two great scoring chances. We were millimeters away from the subs being genius moves.

The problem with a Ricketts for Osorio move earlier is that Seattle was more dangerous on the counter than the boxscore suggests, they almost sprung Morris 3 or 4 times, and going 3-4-3 would have been a big gamble.

It's so easy to be a Sunday morning second guesser.

Going with a 3-4-3 is essentially giving up the central area for width. Vanney doesn't want to give up the central area simply because of how dangerous Lodiero is.

The subs are fine considering Seattle is parking the bus while Toronto wants three central mids. We were the better team for a 120 minutes, but we lost to a shootout.

2016 is a very successful season and considering our 8 years of ineptitude, I would say we can claim the moral victory.

ensco
12-11-2016, 11:31 AM
I believe we will learn that Seba was playing injured.

His body language, right from the moment they showed him getting off the bus on the pregame screen, wasn't right.

He goes down too easily, anyway, but last night he was doing it in so reflexively/automatically that it made me think he was only playing for the foul, that he didn't have the usual ability to accelerate past the defender. Kelly saw it too, and wouldn't give him the calls, mostly.

Gringo Starr
12-11-2016, 11:33 AM
I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?


Right subs, wrong order

we are at home, Seattle playing for kicks, like you said stick with what worked and bring on Ricketts earlier and just go for it. Have cheyrou ready to go in case it's to open. Subs felt tentative.

i was was dreading kicks as Irwin didn't stop one all year but wasn't expecting seatle to be that good with their kicks.

Gringo Starr
12-11-2016, 11:39 AM
no i disagree, it would have been far worse and devastating and disappointing to lose 2-0,2-1 or some other real score in real time or even in the extra time when we were the favoured team going in to the game.

I really don't consider this a loss, i don't. it was a tie game that we dominated.

we were then asked to play another game a game of who can score the most penalty kicks, each team gets five, that game we lost
I wouldn't be really happy today if we won that penalty kick game,

pks are a skill, so is stopping them, it's part of the game and we came out the wrong end, we had a great season but it's a loss at the end and it sucks any way it happens

Leedsoronto
12-11-2016, 11:44 AM
England lose on pens all the time, welcome to my world lol

Canary10
12-11-2016, 11:47 AM
I don't like the subs and Vanney should be questioned on them. I think he thought the same magic from Montreal was going to happen again.

Anyway, great season. I really feel for Bradley. Had a huge game. He'll be thinking about that penalty for a long time. This is a team that can compete for a few years. Hope we can keep it together.

It's going to be while before it doesn't feel like someone died. That's what I feel like this morning.

Alixir
12-11-2016, 11:50 AM
First I would like to say I am very proud of the lads despite the outcome.
When we beat Montreal we won our cup this year. For all the lows this team has been through we should hold our heads high for the accomplishments we made this past season.

I would also like to say that Morrow pissed me off. Not because he missed the PK but because of his comments after the game. "The better team won"....no, they didn't. The better team lost. We outplayed them, out chanced them, dictated a lot of the play. Just because they won the game of chance does not mean they are the better team! Had he not pounded the ball off the crossbar and TFC lost would he say the better team didn't win?

Anyhoo....remember we still have Champions league to look forward to.

Gringo Starr
12-11-2016, 12:07 PM
England lose on pens all the time, welcome to my world lol

Walking back to the car after the game all I could think of was that Pizza Hut commercial with Southgate and Pearce and picturing it with Bradley and Morrow.

benito
12-11-2016, 12:20 PM
I believe we will learn that Seba was playing injured.

His body language, right from the moment they showed him getting off the bus on the pregame screen, wasn't right.

He goes down too easily, anyway, but last night he was doing it in so reflexively/automatically that it made me think he was only playing for the foul, that he didn't have the usual ability to accelerate past the defender. Kelly saw it too, and wouldn't give him the calls, mostly.

I agree. Seba was missing his usual magic and seemed to mishit many free kicks and corners.

flamehawk
12-11-2016, 12:24 PM
I am proud of the players... but it doesn't make things easier. I can't help but feel bitter losing to a coin toss after a fairly dominant performance. Happy for Frei .. but another bitter pill to take, given my thoughts on trading him away.

Would've been a fairy tale ending..

Leedsoronto
12-11-2016, 12:43 PM
Walking back to the car after the game all I could think of was that Pizza Hut commercial with Southgate and Pearce and picturing it with Bradley and Morrow.

lol yes I remember it well :@(

Areathrasher
12-11-2016, 12:53 PM
I am not bitter, but I am gutted.

Yup...

kodiakTFC
12-11-2016, 01:12 PM
In another world this was in..

https://streamable.com/xa1k

Couchy81
12-11-2016, 01:13 PM
I never want to see that save again for the rest of my life.

Frei :'(

Great season though, best in our short history, can't be disappointed with that.

ScarboroughRed
12-11-2016, 01:24 PM
Heads up. Football can be a cruel sport sometimes.

After last years debacle in Montreal, how many of you thought we would be doing this in 2016? We have SO much to be proud of.

But how can you not be excited for the future. We have a great President, GM, and coaching staff. Also, as we saw throughout the summer, we have great young depth players that will soon be ready.

I wholeheartedly believe that we will be able to follow in the steps of the Galaxy and Red Bulls as far as sustainable success goes now. :scarf:

Cheers to you all, enjoy your holidays!

Shakes McQueen
12-11-2016, 01:29 PM
I am not bitter, but I am gutted.

Look at it this way: At least we get to be gutted for the "right" reason (losing a cup final), instead of because we are beyond frustrated at what a shit show our team is.

I call that a victory, of sorts!

Lennon
12-11-2016, 01:32 PM
I was nervous before the final, but strangely not so excited.

I felt the same way. The Montreal game was my final.

As much as it sucks losing the way we did, losing to Montreal on our turf and having to watch them in the final would have been even worse.

wopchop
12-11-2016, 01:36 PM
I felt the same way. The Montreal game was my final.

As much as it sucks losing the way we did, losing to Montreal on our turf and having to watch them in the final would have been even worse.
Agreed.

Great season and we are well setup for future success. Off season should be interesting.

Canary10
12-11-2016, 01:39 PM
Look at it this way: At least we get to be gutted for the "right" reason (losing a cup final), instead of because we are beyond frustrated at what a shit show our team is.

I call that a victory, of sorts!

Agreed. This was the first season I went to BMO expecting wins as opposed to cynically jeering. I went last night fully expecting a win. The culture has changed.

Lennon
12-11-2016, 01:46 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzXfjhrW8AA9rIT.jpg


xG map for the MLS Cup Final. Seattle won a cup without ever putting together a dangerous attack. It's an achievement!

So gross.

ensco
12-11-2016, 02:09 PM
Look at it this way: At least we get to be gutted for the "right" reason (losing a cup final), instead of because we are beyond frustrated at what a shit show our team is.

I call that a victory, of sorts!

It's a kind of victory, that I will feel in due course, you are right.

But today ... I had another look at that play in the box in the 93rd minute, Altidore was a millimeter away on that one too...

We had 'em, and they somehow wriggled off the hook.

gate7
12-11-2016, 02:20 PM
Right subs, wrong order

we are at home, Seattle playing for kicks, like you said stick with what worked and bring on Ricketts earlier and just go for it. Have cheyrou ready to go in case it's to open. Subs felt tentative.

i was was dreading kicks as Irwin didn't stop one all year but wasn't expecting seatle to be that good with their kicks.


Agree 100%.....Cheyrou should have been the Last sub just like in the game with Limpact.

Kingvikingstad
12-11-2016, 02:23 PM
Tactically, I thought we could have adjusted a couple things at halftime.

There were lots of opportunities to switch the ball quicker and make better use of our wingbacks, but the biggest thing that bugged me was how slowly we tried to counter when we had the opportunity, which played right into Seattle's hands. We'd win the ball and take three or four casual dribbles, pass sideways or backwards; instead of running the ball forward and forcing their defenders to commit out of position and make room for Jozy and Gio. It was driving me crazy, especially in the second half when Seattle pushed forward a bit more after the 70th minute or so. Seattle had time to reset their defense and forced us to put hopeful balls into the box or pass around the perimeter.

This was especially noticeable after we shifted our midfield to Johnson-Bradley-Cheyrou. I think we needed to keep either Cooper or Osorio on the pitch as long as possible based on how Seattle was set-up. We needed at least one dynamic player as a part of the midfield three, as the trio above all practically do the same thing to varying degrees.

Shakes McQueen
12-11-2016, 02:38 PM
Agreed. This was the first season I went to BMO expecting wins as opposed to cynically jeering. I went last night fully expecting a win. The culture has changed.

Funny how winning matches and competent management tend to do that.

We'll be alright. Pick up a couple of complementary pieces this winter, keep up the form these guys showed us they are capable of, and we will be back in another Cup Final soon enough.

RealG-TFC
12-11-2016, 02:47 PM
Well, last year we were over the moon when we clinched the playoffs for the first time only to crash out in Montreal.

This year we managed to make it to the finals after avoiding another k.o. from Montreal and avenging last season's exit, only to lose the final at home.

Hopefully next year the cup is ours before ever feeling any disappointment.

OgtheDim
12-11-2016, 02:57 PM
I believe we will learn that Seba was playing injured.

His body language, right from the moment they showed him getting off the bus on the pregame screen, wasn't right.

..

I agree. Something happened before the Montreal series. He's not been the same.

That and I think maybe its time the guy take a game off during the season. He's not old but he needs a break periodically.

mistercorporate
12-11-2016, 03:04 PM
Yeah, exactly.

2014 - We finally had interesting players, higher attendance and began our turnaround.

2015 - We got into the playoffs for the first time, had the league MVP, Golden Boot and Newcomer of the Year, a newly expanded stadium, as well as some great quality soccer.

2016 - We won the Canadian Championship, qualified for CONCACAF, got into the playoffs, stadium got modernized and built a new roof, hosted home playoff games (which we also won in exciting fashion), won the Eastern Conference Championship Cup, increased our presence in the Canadian media, increased our fanbase, made our owners a ton of money, developed a winning formula and played some exciting football, destroyed Montreal and set MLS records in a series, as well as hosted the MLS Cup where we came within an inch of winning it all!

oranje boven
12-11-2016, 03:08 PM
Disappointed..... but not angry.
Enjoyed every single playoff game. What a great experience travelling to Montreal as a TFC fan.
Lets remember that we beat Montreal.
The home leg is one of the best sporting events anyone has ever attended.
Whats the saying? "I just can't get enough". That's how this team has me feeling; I cant wait for next season.

trane
12-11-2016, 03:23 PM
It was a good year. We had a good year. We had a good game. Should have won. But did not. Disappointed, but very proud off all of them. We will back next year. Fuck Seattle.

wopchop
12-11-2016, 03:49 PM
Disappointed..... but not angry.
Enjoyed every single playoff game. What a great experience travelling to Montreal as a TFC fan.
Lets remember that we beat Montreal.
The home leg is one of the best sporting events anyone has ever attended.
Whats the saying? "I just can't get enough". That's how this team has me feeling; I cant wait for next season.
No kidding! Can't wait for some Montreal roadies next year.

C.Ronaldo
12-11-2016, 04:27 PM
Also. BMO is a fortress again. Teams dont come here and win through reg play. Every team was dominated at BMO.

This is still our house!

Jack
12-11-2016, 04:37 PM
MLS needs to focus on improving their refereeing. They also need to either move or condense the schedule somehow so the playoffs are done before the FIFA break. Two weeks off in the middle of the playoffs is stupid.

sn0re
12-11-2016, 04:54 PM
Yeah, exactly.

2014 - We finally had interesting players, higher attendance and began our turnaround.

2015 - We got into the playoffs for the first time, had the league MVP, Golden Boot and Newcomer of the Year, a newly expanded stadium, as well as some great quality soccer.

2016 - We won the Canadian Championship, qualified for CONCACAF, got into the playoffs, stadium got modernized and built a new roof, hosted home playoff games (which we also won in exciting fashion), won the Eastern Conference Championship Cup, increased our presence in the Canadian media, increased our fanbase, made our owners a ton of money, developed a winning formula and played some exciting football, destroyed Montreal and set MLS records in a series, as well as hosted the MLS Cup where we came within an inch of winning it all!

I also look forward to going into Champions League! Imagine if we get into MLS cup and CONCACAF final.. :yum:

ensco
12-11-2016, 04:59 PM
A pretty fair summary

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/11/wiebe-did-sounders-deserve-win-mls-cup-doesnt-matter-they-did

Auzzy
12-11-2016, 05:10 PM
MLS needs to focus on improving their refereeing. They also need to either move or condense the schedule somehow so the playoffs are done before the FIFA break. Two weeks off in the middle of the playoffs is stupid.

I really feel that Kelly was good when he got here, but has gotten worse over time. Not just because of yesterday's performance; also some other recent games, with us & with other teams. There's an "After 90 minutes" piece on the TFC website, that shows Giovinco getting mauled on numerous occasions. I think most of those weren't even whistled, let alone carded. I often hear from others, even some Torontonians -- and even some TFC fans -- that Giovinco fakes things, or at least goes down easy. I think it's mostly bullshit. In fact, he often fights through bad challenges. When you're injured, tired, and in that weather when everything is going to hurt worse, those bad challenges are enough to kill off a good player.

I'm very happy with the overall season results. I'm looking forward to the next season. I think we could have multiple years of good performances, and finally some stability. But as much as I think their goal will definitely be to win MLS Cup, I'm also not going to freak if they put in a good year and don't get quite as far. We have to realize, many things also went right for us to make it to the final this year. If I see effort and competency next season, I'll be quite happy. I think there were many rough spots this season that they should work on. I hope to see improvement throughout next season, then we'll see how far they get in the end.

trane
12-11-2016, 05:24 PM
A pretty fair summary

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/11/wiebe-did-sounders-deserve-win-mls-cup-doesnt-matter-they-did

It is a fair summary.

trane
12-11-2016, 05:26 PM
MLS needs to focus on improving their refereeing. They also need to either move or condense the schedule somehow so the playoffs are done before the FIFA break. Two weeks off in the middle of the playoffs is stupid.

I agree with others that Giovinco did not seem 100%, and the cold could not have helped. When it hits -5 in Norther Italy, no one ventures outside. BUT the refereeing was a huge factor, I am all for letting the player play, but he was, and they have been, letting players beat up on Giovinco way too much.

azorean
12-11-2016, 05:53 PM
Last night was horrible but I really think a year from now we will back in the same situation , MLS cup at home. I really do. We have a solid group of players, a little tweaking, some breaks, and we will be right back here. The thing that worries me is teams in MLS are becoming more ambitious, and there are more teams next year which makes it harder, look at what Atlanta is doing before they have kicked a ball in anger to see how ambitious teams are becoming. That being said, i still like our chances. We have the resources, we have the experience now. We just have to make sure we have a solid season and hopefully gain a top seed where we have home advantage throughout the playoffs. We have a window of opportunity here before things really become difficult in MLS with expansion , etc..., lafc in 2018 with their ambitious owners/plans...it is only going to get harder.

Would'nt it be something if TFC made some real noise in CCL, first MLS team to win it, not out of the realm of possibility. Something tells me we are going to have a good run in that tournament next year.

C.Ronaldo
12-11-2016, 05:57 PM
A quick read on twitter has united States of Americans calling Bradley trash and unworthy of being on the usmnt. Do they even watch him play?
He is an absolute beast out there.

gate7
12-11-2016, 06:50 PM
I agree with others that Giovinco did not seem 100%, and the cold could not have helped. When it hits -5 in Norther Italy, no one ventures outside. BUT the refereeing was a huge factor, I am all for letting the player play, but he was, and they have been, letting players beat up on Giovinco way too much.

'beat up' Giovinco is an understatement for what happened last night. I understand that Giovinco gets a little more lashing here and there throughout the season due to his weakness in size, But last night was shameful! The ref let it play on and it only got worse.

The only thing that Seattle players didn't do to him was pull his hair.

This is another reason I would have preferred Rickets in early to play with Altidore and Giovinco between them. Giovinco and Altidore where double teamed the whole match.

I was fortunate to sit in row 7 and could see the faces really well. I felt really bad for Giovinco when I could clearly see his legitimate facial expressions in agony from the constant lashings.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
12-11-2016, 07:57 PM
Clint Irwin

120mins Played
0 saves
0 shots on target

Wow fucking highway robbery!!

End of...

See u lads in march....

Cant get over it.

Cheers

Detroit_TFC
12-11-2016, 09:12 PM
TFC may have lost the game but the team sure as hell didn't get beat last night.

Football is like that sometimes.

And we know what it is to see TFC get beat.

Quite optimistic for next season, with more GarberBux (TM) on hand and BezVan working on fine tuning the squad.

Detroit_TFC
12-11-2016, 09:18 PM
Let's not forget

""""""Toronto FC are the Eastern Champions""""

that is an achievement worthy of praise

Agreed. And it was the product of a tremendous home and away series vs our rival. That's deeply satisfying for me.

huninho
12-11-2016, 11:03 PM
Absolutely gutted. Would have preferred to see the game go to Seattle for a second leg rather than penos but those are the breaks. TBH beating MTL was the highlight for me, winning the cup would have been the icing on the cake.
Hopefully next year we win the champions league, and play in the Club World Cup...Fancy a trip to Japan anyone?

Couchy81
12-12-2016, 12:12 AM
A quick read on twitter has united States of Americans calling Bradley trash and unworthy of being on the usmnt. Do they even watch him play?
He is an absolute beast out there.

Let them have their opinion. And let us keep his contract.

CanadaLFC
12-12-2016, 09:51 AM
Anyone know when the schedule comes out?

Areathrasher
12-12-2016, 09:54 AM
Anyone know when the schedule comes out?

Mid January

Joe Kool
12-12-2016, 10:08 AM
Proud of how far TFC came and proud that Seattle didn't come in and have their way during the game. In the end TFC beat themselves because it came down to finishing your chances which we had and Seattle didn't really have any. Really proud of how the supporters took it to a new level for the cup game as well. I have never seen the east and west stands bouncing like our south stand and they were for a large part of the game or at least the second half because that is when I noticed it....upper and lower deck. It was impressive. Proud that we are safely out of the laughing stock of MLS years. Go REDS in 2017!!!

I do have one beef though....Seattle's buildings were green in their support for their team. Even NY had buildings green and red for MLS Cup support or so MLS says. When I was driving in our CN tower was friggin' BLUE. What the hell? Jays or Leafs playing in a playoff? I think that was the difference in the game. Got to be honest. Nice going to whoever controls that shit.

Globetrotter
12-12-2016, 10:17 AM
MLS should (continue to) be the league that changes how soccer is played. We dont do promotion/relegation. We have playoffs.

1. Do away with the home/home away goal. Make it a best of three (Sat, Wedn, Sat) series. Make it about winning games, not winning aggregate goals.

2. Do away with penalty kicks. There's 10 field players and a keeper. If you cant decide a game in 90, you play 10 minutes with one fewer field player 9v9. Golden goal. If no winner, you play another 10, 8v8. Still tied, another 10, 7v7. At this point, if still tied - it will have been 120 minutes, where typically you would have kicks. Instead, you go 6v6 for 10 minutes...
The game would be decided far more cleanly. It could be wide open, very entertaining, and decided on a legitimate goal - not pk's.

MLS has the opportunity to fix the nonsense that was started decades ago. The above might not be perfect - but it's a big step ahead of what soccer (the world over) offers today. Nobody on the planet wants to win a championship - or even worse lose one - on kicks.

Phil
12-12-2016, 10:38 AM
Proud of the season, we had an excellent and entertaining playoff run - the type the MLS can use to build on, but that final was a disaster - and I say that not as a disappointed TFC fan. To have Seattle employ tactics like that hurts the game, as did that ref for buying into it. I understand teams tightening up and hunkering down for a final but not to have any shots on net and come out the winners is shambolic to say the least. It was dirty football by Seattle to be falling all over the pitch and goading the ref into either non calls or buying into the ruse. The real showcase and final was on a rainy night against Montreal.

MLS has to address this FIFA layoff during the playoffs big time, I would rather have roster struggles for regular season games instead of all this time off for world cups & qualifiers vs. shutting down momentum in a drive. I can embrace a playoff format but only if its done right. MLS has their work cut out for them, I am sure they will continue to disappoint though.

Joe Kool
12-12-2016, 10:58 AM
Just looking at the MLS fan comments now for the first time since the game but I couldn't be bothered to read too much of it and came back to our forum. So much anti-TFC and anti-Toronto Supporter comments. Just because a couple drunk assholes decided to throw beer cans and poutine on the field at the Seattle player. I don't agree with that behaviour but man what a bunch of small minded people adding those comments and calling for sanctions against Toronto for future games and whatnot. Saying it is typical of Toronto and Canadians. Not even worth the time to read all that rubbish. They and MLS soccer staff are also taking shots at the fact that people on social media are saying Seattle was fortunate to win the game. Wiebe's article didn't even allow comments after it as they normally do because he knows he was taking a shot and so he didn't want fans to be able to add a rebuttal. It is almost like they couldn't wait for Toronto to lose to rub it in once more like they used to in the old days. Our team was still at MLS Cup and many of their teams were not. On to more positive things....

Soccer Mum
12-12-2016, 10:58 AM
MLS should (continue to) be the league that changes how soccer is played. We dont do promotion/relegation. We have playoffs.

1. Do away with the home/home away goal. Make it a best of three (Sat, Wedn, Sat) series. Make it about winning games, not winning aggregate goals.

2. Do away with penalty kicks. There's 10 field players and a keeper. If you cant decide a game in 90, you play 10 minutes with one fewer field player 9v9. Golden goal. If no winner, you play another 10, 8v8. Still tied, another 10, 7v7. At this point, if still tied - it will have been 120 minutes, where typically you would have kicks. Instead, you go 6v6 for 10 minutes...
The game would be decided far more cleanly. It could be wide open, very entertaining, and decided on a legitimate goal - not pk's.

MLS has the opportunity to fix the nonsense that was started decades ago. The above might not be perfect - but it's a big step ahead of what soccer (the world over) offers today. Nobody on the planet wants to win a championship - or even worse lose one - on kicks.

I hope all of what you said is never actually a thing. I am sorry, but we don't need to be the poster child for going back MLS 1.0 with stupid shit like run-up penalties. Let's keep some uniformity with the rest of the world.

I am on-board with the playoff format btw.

Red CB Toronto
12-12-2016, 11:05 AM
Did TFC already have a spot waiting in the trophy case beforehand? Looks like it. ( : I am pretty sure it was put it to inspire, walking by that empty case everyday makes the players want to fill it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzfLn9EVEAEbQZv.jpg:large

ensco
12-12-2016, 11:36 AM
Proud of the season, we had an excellent and entertaining playoff run - the type the MLS can use to build on, but that final was a disaster - and I say that not as a disappointed TFC fan. To have Seattle employ tactics like that hurts the game, as did that ref for buying into it. I understand teams tightening up and hunkering down for a final but not to have any shots on net and come out the winners is shambolic to say the least. It was dirty football by Seattle to be falling all over the pitch and goading the ref into either non calls or buying into the ruse. The real showcase and final was on a rainy night against Montreal.

MLS has to address this FIFA layoff during the playoffs big time, I would rather have roster struggles for regular season games instead of all this time off for world cups & qualifiers vs. shutting down momentum in a drive. I can embrace a playoff format but only if its done right. MLS has their work cut out for them, I am sure they will continue to disappoint though.

They also have to avoid December for their showcase game. Half the league would have had frozen conditions Saturday night, it was minus 10 in Chicago.

The skill guys were all killed by it.

Globetrotter
12-12-2016, 11:46 AM
I hope all of what you said is never actually a thing. I am sorry, but we don't need to be the poster child for going back MLS 1.0 with stupid shit like run-up penalties. Let's keep some uniformity with the rest of the world.


Uniformity for the sake of uniformity? Or uniformity for the sake of...

Nobody likes penalties to win games. Nobody wants games to go to kicks. If you can do something to change that... why not make the change?

An even numbered game series? That spells all types of disaster. Best of 1, 3, 5, 7. Not 2. You play sports to win games. With the aggregate system, that goes away. You dont play to win, lose, or tie, it's all about goal scoring. And worse, the insane notion that a goal there can be worth more than a goal here. I dont like it, and think we're in the position to say to the world - you've done things in a way that could have been changed and bettered for many years. You didn't. Shame on you. We will make changes.

I appreciate you disagree... but any argument of keeping things the way the are simply for the sake of doing so doesn't advance humanity, and never has. The current system is flawed. Trying to fix it doesn't necessarily equate to "stupid shit". As is, pk's and aggregate goals are stupidity. :cool:

edit: just think of it this way... if 2 game series and the aggregate rule never existed, wouldn't the reaction of hearing it as a suggestion be something along the lines of "what is this nonsense"???
again, what if the world did not know about "shootouts". Wouldn't that seem like a gimmick and cause quite the backlash?

Globetrotter
12-12-2016, 11:49 AM
They also have to avoid December for their showcase game. Half the league would have had frozen conditions Saturday night, it was minus 10 in Chicago.

The skill guys were all killed by it.

I felt the reason why we needed to beat Montreal was because this could be the last chance we have at hosting the MLS cup, therefore never have the opportunity to play for the cup at home.

I would believe that the league in the near future will change to a Superbowl model where you can only host in a Northern city if you have a domed stadium, otherwise you're playing in the Southern US.

We were lucky to have this opportunity.

GhostKiller
12-12-2016, 11:58 AM
Uniformity for the sake of uniformity? Or uniformity for the sake of...

Nobody likes penalties to win games. Nobody wants games to go to kicks. If you can do something to change that... why not make the change?

An even numbered game series? That spells all types of disaster. Best of 1, 3, 5, 7. Not 2. You play sports to win games. With the aggregate system, that goes away. You dont play to win, lose, or tie, it's all about goal scoring. And worse, the insane notion that a goal there can be worth more than a goal here. I dont like it, and think we're in the position to say to the world - you've done things in a way that could have been changed and bettered for many years. You didn't. Shame on you. We will make changes.

I appreciate you disagree... but any argument of keeping things the way the are simply for the sake of doing so doesn't advance humanity, and never has. The current system is flawed. Trying to fix it doesn't necessarily equate to "stupid shit". As is, pk's and aggregate goals are stupidity. :cool:

edit: just think of it this way... if 2 game series and the aggregate rule never existed, wouldn't the reaction of hearing it as a suggestion be something along the lines of "what is this nonsense"???
again, what if the world did not know about "shootouts". Wouldn't that seem like a gimmick and cause quite the backlash?

After players play 90+ minutes it doesn't make any sense to start removing players after 10 minutes. Their legs would be destroyed having to cover the extra ground and it would greatly increase the chance of injury.

Globetrotter
12-12-2016, 12:14 PM
After players play 90+ minutes it doesn't make any sense to start removing players after 10 minutes. Their legs would be destroyed having to cover the extra ground and it would greatly increase the chance of injury.

What if there was a rule change for subs? After 90 mins, or after 120 mins? etc

Also, once you start getting down to 8v8, 7v7, your likelihood of a goal being scored could naturally increase. If you have a fresh legged forward and a dead legged defender with minimal help due to a decreased number of players on the field, you're positioning the game to have a deciding goal.

No system is going to be perfect. You want all games decided in regulation. When that cant happen, and rescheduling a second game is highly unlikely (but an interesting possibility), how would one go about making it as close to a real game as possible, while increasing the odds of getting a deciding goal? We've all played pickup 5v5, 6v6, etc. It's not a full team, but it's still soccer.
Having a pk to decide a game is similar to having a competition who can bounce the ball on their head repeatedly the longest without it falling to the ground, or some type of 4x100 relay with soccer ball going between pylons. It's soccer related, a technical skill, but it's not a game of soccer.

ensco
12-12-2016, 12:17 PM
I would have vastly preferred the shootout. This is the one thing MLS should have kept from the NASL. (I think iirc they had it for the first year or two)

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/flashback-vid-the-nasl-shootout-new-york-cosmos-v-washington-diplomats-6880/

(This is also a good cautionary tale about how fragile success can be. Look at that crowd. Also check out who the last shooter was.)

Red CB Toronto
12-12-2016, 12:20 PM
I would have vastly preferred the shootout. This is the one thing MLS should have kept from the NASL. (I think iirc they had it for the first year or two)

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/flashback-vid-the-nasl-shootout-new-york-cosmos-v-washington-diplomats-6880/

Oh they did and to me it levels the playing field as opposed to PK's being so much in the favor of the shooter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRITqS6WEn0

Soccer Mum
12-12-2016, 12:50 PM
I don't know. I am just not for having a different iteration of the sport than the rest of the world. It's hard enough being taken seriously already and I want this league to sit well with soccer fans all over.

You may think that it doesn't matter what people think, but it really does.

notthesun
12-12-2016, 01:20 PM
Did TFC already have a spot waiting in the trophy case beforehand? Looks like it. ( : I am pretty sure it was put it to inspire, walking by that empty case everyday makes the players want to fill it.


Yes, that case was installed at the start of the year, there is also one for the Voyageurs Cup and one for the CCL.

burlington Red
12-12-2016, 01:44 PM
funny thing was we had the golden goal for a few years and when this was scrapped back in 2004, most of the football federations in Europe welcomed it, they wanted 30 mins extra time followed by pk's brought back. I personally liked the golden goal, I felt it put an onus on teams to attack as they knew whoever scored first in extra time won the game. Not a perfect system by any means, but I think it helped negate one or even both teams playing out the 30 mins extra time to take their chance at pk's.'
I'd even go one step further and allow each team to make an additional 2 more subs for this period. This would allow a couple of more attack minded players to be introduced to freshen things up.
I've seen this debate come up every time a teams loses a big game to pk's though, imo nothing will change unfortunately

trane
12-12-2016, 01:47 PM
I preferred the golden goal. It was drama, but it was not so random.

james
12-12-2016, 01:51 PM
I felt the reason why we needed to beat Montreal was because this could be the last chance we have at hosting the MLS cup, therefore never have the opportunity to play for the cup at home.

I would believe that the league in the near future will change to a Superbowl model where you can only host in a Northern city if you have a domed stadium, otherwise you're playing in the Southern US.

We were lucky to have this opportunity.

they had a neutral stadium as the final for years, even Toronto FC hosted the MLS Cup once as a neutral location. Only recent years has MLS decided to have 1 of the 2 teams in the final host it. Reason was when its a neutral location there often is little interest in the stadium, atmosphere rather poor as neither team has many fans attending, and ticket prices would most likely sell for lower prices and less interest in both clubs cities when neither team gets the intense atmosphere of hosting an event in front of its fans. I don't see them going back to that. Question could be would MLS ever consider having the MLS Cup over 2 legs? More tickets to sell and both sets of fans would get a taste of hosting 1 of the 2 legs in n front of its fans!

kwhisperer
12-12-2016, 01:58 PM
I preferred the golden goal. It was drama, but it was not so random.

To this day, I can't conceive of a plausible argument against the golden goal.

james
12-12-2016, 02:04 PM
I don't know. I am just not for having a different iteration of the sport than the rest of the world. It's hard enough being taken seriously already and I want this league to sit well with soccer fans all over.

You may think that it doesn't matter what people think, but it really does.

i agree. Also if you keep changing rules in MLS it starts to look like the NHL hockey. They changed the rules so many times, and in the end it never really even changed the league for the better in my opinion, the league got worst. Sometimes you need to just stick to how things are and appreciate history.

if there was anything to change the only thing I might consider is the away goal rule. It can create interesting sceneries but When Europe brought that away goal in I have always felt a little odd when 1st leg is 1-1 and second leg is 2-2 but yet a team advances, kind of feels weird winning that way, (tho I guess winning in penalties doesn't feel the greatest way to win either) I was so happy we beat Montreal on actual aggregate goals and not away goals!

Globetrotter
12-12-2016, 02:15 PM
they had a neutral stadium as the final for years, even Toronto FC hosted the MLS Cup once as a neutral location. Only recent years has MLS decided to have 1 of the 2 teams in the final host it. Reason was when its a neutral location there often is little interest in the stadium, atmosphere rather poor as neither team has many fans attending, and ticket prices would most likely sell for lower prices and less interest in both clubs cities when neither team gets the intense atmosphere of hosting an event in front of its fans. I don't see them going back to that. Question could be would MLS ever consider having the MLS Cup over 2 legs? More tickets to sell and both sets of fans would get a taste of hosting 1 of the 2 legs in n front of its fans!

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't part of the benefit of being granted the right to most the MLS Cup (and all star game) due to investment (in a new stadium or new team in general)? Much the same in other sports, if you pump in money to create a new stadium, the league wants to showcase that on a big scale, so teams were granted all star games in those venues. Your points are valid in that the game is not at the level of fan interest in some neutral locations.

As for the 2 legged final, see my other post on my thoughts of a home/home in any capacity. Even number just does not make sense.

The question that needs to be asked is why would we do that? Why would we change? Your comments suggest the financial benefit. If it is to eliminate PK's as a way of settling a tie - then the 2 leg system doesn't do that (you could still end up at pk's at the end of the 2nd game. This goes the same if the suggestion is to reply the game - well how many times do you replay if they keep getting a tie? There's better answers to the PK shootout). The aggregate system in itself is so flawed from a psychological standpoint that I could never support it. Having an even-numbered series is such a noodle scratcher, which just by nature would force some type of tie-breaker potion to be invented and implemented.

Is the 2 legged system perfect? Attractive? Is there a better option to think of?
Is the PK shoot out perfect way to end a game? Is it desirable? Is there a better option to think of?

Red CB Toronto
12-12-2016, 02:25 PM
As this might be hard to believe its only 42 days until players report for the start of the pre-season on January 23rd. The shortest off-season in TFC history. Pretty nice that we do not have to wait that long for it to all kickoff again.

ManUtd4ever
12-12-2016, 02:27 PM
Yeah, that's insane. A little over a month before we're back at it again.

Globetrotter
12-12-2016, 02:32 PM
I don't know. I am just not for having a different iteration of the sport than the rest of the world. It's hard enough being taken seriously already and I want this league to sit well with soccer fans all over.




I've seen this debate come up every time a teams loses a big game to pk's though, imo nothing will change unfortunately

Is it feasible that the rest of the world learn and grow instead of bunkering and saying "that's just the way it's been"?

It comes up every time because it's such a flawed system. It's no longer a soccer game. It's one technical aspect of the game, not a game. If there's complaining about it, shouldn't the world over be screaming "why dont we fix this"????

If I have a light fixture in my kitchen that is bright enough for me to see, not trip over stuff, but isn't really all that bright - the brain could say "well, it's technically functional and not broken", but couldn't the brain say "hey, there's something in place that isn't perfect, and the only thing that's stopping it from being what it could be is me. Maybe I can be the change, the one that sparks a brighter and happier outcome".

Globetrotter
12-12-2016, 02:35 PM
As this might be hard to believe its only 42 days until players report for the start of the pre-season on January 23rd. The shortest off-season in TFC history. Pretty nice that we do not have to wait that long for it to all kickoff again.

Nice thing is the team will more or less be the same. They know each other, less time to learn how to gel. Spring training can be more relaxed from a physical stand point. It is a nice advantage, and on field minutes can be played with accordingly through the entire Spring.

Dougrd
12-12-2016, 02:35 PM
SHOW OUR SUPPORT:

Is there going to be a turn out for the "LOCKER CLEAR OUT / MEDIA DAY" down at the stadium to show our support for a good season?
Just a thought but might be nice?

brad
12-12-2016, 02:38 PM
Nothing needs to change except the game needs to be played earlier. As others have said - it's potentially cold in a lot of MLS cities at this time of year, including the prime New York market.

And easy way to do that would back down from having so many teams make the playoffs (which will never happen).

On the game itself - the quality was poor, the weather played a big role. But finals are usually cagey, dull affairs anyway.

No way do they go back to a neutral site. The atmosphere is a big selling point for the MLS and a neutral site will kill that.

buddies
12-12-2016, 06:02 PM
My vote would be for a hybrid of what they used to do in the UK AND the two leg system. Using this year's final as an example, we had the better record so the MLS Cup is held here. You play the game and if it's tied, it goes to extra time. If after 120 minutes it's still tied, the final score including extra time counts. At that point, Seattle parked the bus and they get their reward for success but NOT the Cup. We have a replay back in Seattle next week. If that game goes to extra time because it's tied then you play another 30 minutes of extra time. If after 120 minutes it's still tied, that's when away goals are considered. If it's still tied, both teams have had ample opportunity to settle it ... it goes to penalties. Eventually it has to end but penalties should be an absolute last resort and 120 minutes to me isn't a big enough excuse. I know a week is a short turn around but it's the MLS Cup Final ffs! ... If you get there you prepare for the fact that there might be a replay ... AND the league wins too. They get to have TWO finals.

kodiakTFC
12-12-2016, 06:07 PM
A March to December season is ridiculous. Late March to Mid-November would be alright.

Auzzy
12-12-2016, 06:40 PM
First of all, I don't think MLS can change anything on it's own. It's already seen as too much of a Mickey Mouse league around the world. MLS changing the finals format on their own would make it even harder to sign quality international players, or to generally be taken seriously.

I think shootouts are fun -- but also silly & gimmicky. And man were the players pretty bad back then!

Extended overtime with more subs & Golden Goal are perhaps a good option. But consider that players are already seriously exhausted by then. Injuries, general fatigue, and crappy play are likely. Plus no guarantee it works out well: I remember watching the Massachusetts high school state finals in the early 80s. Instead of PKs, they used a system like this. I believe more subs were allowed anyway, plus endless sudden-death OT. Well, nobody else scored for HOURS! The game went on & on & on. This was late November, so it was getting extremely late & cold. (I was there with my dad, watching the game.) I don't think they really had a rule in place for this situation. Eventually they halted the game, and continued with more overtime another day. In that case, even PKs would be better.

Yes the season needs to be finished earlier. There are a couple of ways to do that. One way: relax the roster restrictions a bit more, making it easier to have two games a week.

BTW Superbowl at a neutral venue is not a good comparison. Superbowl is such a big deal, it would sell out if they held it in Anchorage. MLS Cup in a neutral city could be pretty lame. Plus hosting at the higher seed really increases the value of all the regular season games & results.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
12-12-2016, 07:21 PM
Btw..Pre season starts jan 23rd...lol...rest up boys!!! We go some unfinished buis to take of starting in March!

greekasm
12-12-2016, 09:56 PM
This would never fly, but it's an interesting idea:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/2016/06/01/how_to_fix_the_penalty_shootout_play_it_before_ext ra_time.html

Redpunkfiddle
12-12-2016, 10:32 PM
I do have one beef though....Seattle's buildings were green in their support for their team. Even NY had buildings green and red for MLS Cup support or so MLS says. When I was driving in our CN tower was friggin' BLUE. What the hell? Jays or Leafs playing in a playoff? I think that was the difference in the game. Got to be honest. Nice going to whoever controls that shit.

It was all red post (and during?)game .

Auzzy
12-12-2016, 10:35 PM
It was all red post (and during?)game .

We got off the bus at Strachan & King & walked to BMO before the game. The tower was all red at the time.

gate7
12-12-2016, 11:09 PM
This would never fly, but it's an interesting idea:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/2016/06/01/how_to_fix_the_penalty_shootout_play_it_before_ext ra_time.html

Thats absolutely brilliant!!!

Red CB Toronto
12-12-2016, 11:18 PM
Very happy to have these as a momento of the Reds 2016 playoff run.

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15420868_10211656244181355_2080202486772248709_n.j pg?oh=13d48b903dcb442b414f5014977e5b5c&oe=58B9B61E&dl=1

Voodooman
12-13-2016, 09:01 AM
We got off the bus at Strachan & King & walked to BMO before the game. The tower was all red at the time.

I got to BMO around 6pm, can confirm it was Blue for most of 20 minutes? Maybe for the Leafs?

C.Ronaldo
12-13-2016, 10:06 AM
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't part of the benefit of being granted the right to most the MLS Cup (and all star game) due to investment (in a new stadium or new team in general)? Much the same in other sports, if you pump in money to create a new stadium, the league wants to showcase that on a big scale, so teams were granted all star games in those venues. Your points are valid in that the game is not at the level of fan interest in some neutral locations.

As for the 2 legged final, see my other post on my thoughts of a home/home in any capacity. Even number just does not make sense.

The question that needs to be asked is why would we do that? Why would we change? Your comments suggest the financial benefit. If it is to eliminate PK's as a way of settling a tie - then the 2 leg system doesn't do that (you could still end up at pk's at the end of the 2nd game. This goes the same if the suggestion is to reply the game - well how many times do you replay if they keep getting a tie? There's better answers to the PK shootout). The aggregate system in itself is so flawed from a psychological standpoint that I could never support it. Having an even-numbered series is such a noodle scratcher, which just by nature would force some type of tie-breaker potion to be invented and implemented.

Is the 2 legged system perfect? Attractive? Is there a better option to think of?
Is the PK shoot out perfect way to end a game? Is it desirable? Is there a better option to think of?

one game playoffs end like what we just saw, even berst of 3 end up low scoring
Aggregate was meant to stimulate goal production

Soccer Mum
12-13-2016, 10:26 AM
Is it feasible that the rest of the world learn and grow instead of bunkering and saying "that's just the way it's been"?

It comes up every time because it's such a flawed system. It's no longer a soccer game. It's one technical aspect of the game, not a game. If there's complaining about it, shouldn't the world over be screaming "why dont we fix this"????

If I have a light fixture in my kitchen that is bright enough for me to see, not trip over stuff, but isn't really all that bright - the brain could say "well, it's technically functional and not broken", but couldn't the brain say "hey, there's something in place that isn't perfect, and the only thing that's stopping it from being what it could be is me. Maybe I can be the change, the one that sparks a brighter and happier outcome".

Ok, but let's say the technician installing the light fixture has his own small business and installs one particular type of light fixture. That light fixture is not supported anywhere else. No one abroad will hire him because he doesn't have experience installing regular fixtures. In fact, the biggest company in his own country (think national team) does not prefer him, because their light fixtures have to match what is regular practice around the world. Although we are all in the same field, that company would rather look abroad to people who have experience installing fixtures their way.

Globetrotter
12-13-2016, 11:31 AM
My vote would be for a hybrid of what they used to do in the UK AND the two leg system. Using this year's final as an example, we had the better record so the MLS Cup is held here. You play the game and if it's tied, it goes to extra time. If after 120 minutes it's still tied, the final score including extra time counts. At that point, Seattle parked the bus and they get their reward for success but NOT the Cup. We have a replay back in Seattle next week. If that game goes to extra time because it's tied then you play another 30 minutes of extra time. If after 120 minutes it's still tied, that's when away goals are considered. If it's still tied, both teams have had ample opportunity to settle it ... it goes to penalties. Eventually it has to end but penalties should be an absolute last resort and 120 minutes to me isn't a big enough excuse. I know a week is a short turn around but it's the MLS Cup Final ffs! ... If you get there you prepare for the fact that there might be a replay ... AND the league wins too. They get to have TWO finals.

Again, it needs to all fall back to the question "why are we suggesting changes in the first place?" The answer is that PK's aren't necessarily the best option to decide a game. As interesting as the proposal is that you've suggested, you still leave PK's as a possibility. It's not hard to imagine a 2 legged system that gets past extra times, away goals, and still ends in PKs. And for those reasons, I'm out.

Globetrotter
12-13-2016, 11:40 AM
Soccer mum - I like the creativity (and love talking light bulbs), I don't like the mindset that if something already exists and is used by everyone, that we should settle for that and not try to improve. Toronto is becoming a mecca of start ups, and everything that grows to be big profitable products or things that change the world start off small, one sale at a time. If LED or the next best thing can replace old energy draining bulbs, cut electricity use, etc - then something like compatibility issues is just one small roadblock to overcome, and the idea should not be scrapped.

I see a flaw in the game. The only thing that's stopping us from fixing it is ourselves. Let's identify barriers, not build them, then find a way to get around them. I dont believe for a second there's no better solution to PK's or the 2-legged home/home system. :)

Soccer Mum
12-14-2016, 12:31 PM
Soccer mum - I like the creativity (and love talking light bulbs), I don't like the mindset that if something already exists and is used by everyone, that we should settle for that and not try to improve. Toronto is becoming a mecca of start ups, and everything that grows to be big profitable products or things that change the world start off small, one sale at a time. If LED or the next best thing can replace old energy draining bulbs, cut electricity use, etc - then something like compatibility issues is just one small roadblock to overcome, and the idea should not be scrapped.

I see a flaw in the game. The only thing that's stopping us from fixing it is ourselves. Let's identify barriers, not build them, then find a way to get around them. I dont believe for a second there's no better solution to PK's or the 2-legged home/home system. :)

We should add a skills competition to the allstar weekend.Hardest shot,fastest lap around the field, essentially taking FIFA video game skills mode and putting it in the stadium.

#makesawkerbetter

trane
12-14-2016, 06:05 PM
To this day, I can't conceive of a plausible argument against the golden goal.

I think it was just based on players getting exhausted, and injuries. But then just allow some changes if you go that deep.

EL DUQUE'----'
12-14-2016, 06:29 PM
Now that the hurt has stopped a bit, I can post...lol...just wasn't our days gents.. I will say this, if the nucleus is keep together along with an AM to play with Cooper and Bradley, I think we win the league and cup. We now know what it takes, even though we dominated the game. ALL WE WERE SAYING WAS GIVE US A GOAL....

Shakes McQueen
12-14-2016, 08:45 PM
I think it was just based on players getting exhausted, and injuries. But then just allow some changes if you go that deep.

But do you hit a critical limit, where it's almost dangerous for ANY of the players on the field to continue exerting themselves (except the GK)?

Ajax TFC
12-14-2016, 10:28 PM
I don't think the issue is so much that a game can be decided by penalties, but rather, the issue is that a team can play for penalties rather than playing for a win in the actual game, which makes the actual game a much more boring affair. It isn't necessary to completely eliminate penalties if you can make them hard enough to reach that teams stop playing for them. The hybrid system suggested above makes it much harder to play for penalties as it would require playing for 240 minutes of shutout ball. You could also bring in the away goals rule if it goes to two legs to prevent the away team in each fixture from completely bunkering down.

Personally, I think underdog teams implementing negative tactics to win is just a part of cup competitions. Maybe a better format would be to award the main championship to the team that finishes with the most points, and have a mini tournament spread throughout the season between the top twelve teams from the previous season like domestic cups in Europe. That way you can have the best team win the championship, you can have your tournament style playoff, and you can have the final a bit earlier in the year when it's less likely to be winter somewhere.

Or another alternative format would be to have a MLB style playoffs. Split each conference into two divisions, and have the division winners play each other to determine the conference champs and then the conference champs play each other to determine the MLS champs. That way you can have your playoffs, but they would actually determine the best of the best rather than a team being able to squeek in as the 12th place team and win the cup.

Red CB Toronto
12-14-2016, 11:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56CAspqoAn4

burlington Red
12-15-2016, 08:07 AM
I think it was just based on players getting exhausted, and injuries. But then just allow some changes if you go that deep.


the golden goal was only ever 30 mins max, the same as regular extra time. If no goal was scored in that period then it went to pk's anyway.
addition of extra subs in this period would help negate some tiredness and allow teams to add some freshness to their attack.
we already had this system and a lot of the leading football countries in europe were strongly against it at the time. See this article from 2004 when the rule was scrapped. Maybe now attitudes have changed, and these countries maybe more receptive to it now

http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news/y=2004/m=3/news=footballing-world-cheers-end-golden-goal-90982.html

ensco
12-15-2016, 08:10 AM
I am still seeing that save over and over again in my head.

When does that stop?

Auzzy
12-15-2016, 08:36 AM
I am still seeing that save over and over again in my head.

When does that stop?

Well here's an extra good view of it, to give you more to work with: https://t.co/3q3r9h6EZZ

:D Almost hypnotic. What a monster jump by Jozy.

Joe Kool
12-15-2016, 08:41 AM
I find it interesting that Vanney mentions in his year end interview about it being easy with hindsight regarding the Giovinco sub and it's timing. I don't buy that crap. He should have known better. At around the 83rd minute I was telling my buddies next to me that they need to sub Giovinco off because he doesn't look like he has any more to give and we need Ricketts to add some speed and something different. I also was saying I hope Vanney doesn't leave him out there when he shouldn't be just to avoid making him mad at being subbed off. I didn't want to lose a championship to protect a player's ego. But Vanney waited until Giovinco asked for a sub in extra time so playing to his ego is what he did. It annoyed me to see him talk about it being easy to be an armchair quarterback regarding this but even if we won I would have still said it was not the right call to leave him out there that long....and I was saying these things as the game happened....not in hindsight. Anyway, that was my last thought on the game. Just got annoyed by the interview with Vanney about that part.

Auzzy
12-15-2016, 08:46 AM
I find it interesting that Vanney mentions in his year end interview about it being easy with hindsight regarding the Giovinco sub and it's timing. I don't buy that crap. He should have known better. At around the 83rd minute I was telling my buddies next to me that they need to sub Giovinco off because he doesn't look like he has any more to give and we need Ricketts to add some speed and something different. I also was saying I hope Vanney doesn't leave him out there when he shouldn't be just to avoid making him mad at being subbed off. I didn't want to lose a championship to protect a player's ego. But Vanney waited until Giovinco asked for a sub in extra time so playing to his ego is what he did. It annoyed me to see him talk about it being easy to be an armchair quarterback regarding this but even if we won I would have still said it was not the right call to leave him out there that long....and I was saying these things as the game happened....not in hindsight. Anyway, that was my last thought on the game. Just got annoyed by the interview with Vanney about that part.

Lots of people are still freaking out at Vanney for taking Giovinco out at all, saying he should have stayed out for the PKs no matter what (I think that's nuts). Looks like Vanney got it right down the middle. :D

PAOK17
12-15-2016, 08:53 AM
one game playoffs end like what we just saw, even berst of 3 end up low scoring
Aggregate was meant to stimulate goal production
Of the systems that are currently in use, the two legged system I believe results in fewer match ups decided on penalties. This is in combination to the away goals rule because the only way you even get extra time is if the scores are identical in both games. As silly as it sounds, the uefa model of keeping the away goals rule in extra time adds the element that if a goal is scored, the game cannot go to penalties.

I'm hearing ideas of best of 3 but wouldn't you still need to settle tie games on an individual basis? Ie the potential to have three shootouts? The play on until someone scores is unlikely to pass unless you make rule changes like unlimited subs, with more subs available in extra time. The thing with golden goal is that if it only takes one mistake to lose a game, won't teams be even more conservative?

Someone posted an article about how 11 champions league finals have been settled by penalties since 83. I wonder how many of the knockout rounds where we have 2 legs went to penalties. I don't think it happens that often. 2 legs with away goals is designed to avoid penalties

Fort York Redcoat
12-15-2016, 09:28 AM
NA obsessed with best of series. No thank you.

Fort York Redcoat
12-15-2016, 09:31 AM
#makesawkerbetter

It's pronounced "saccer".:rolleyes:

ensco
12-15-2016, 10:15 AM
Why do people assume that a guy who is cramping so badly he can barely move, would have his usual efficiency rate in penalties?

That makes no sense.

C.Ronaldo
12-15-2016, 10:56 AM
shoulda been will at 60minute, ricketts at 70/80min, cheyrou for when giovinco was gassed. but theres no guarantee that would work

vanney took a gamble and it didnt work out, but he got damn close

Auzzy
12-15-2016, 12:19 PM
Why do people assume that a guy who is cramping so badly he can barely move, would have his usual efficiency rate in penalties?

That makes no sense.

Exactly, I agree. Most of the post-cup armchair quarterbacking about the penalties (especially on FB and such) is ridiculous. Bradley missed his PK. I'm sure he's a reliable PK taker, but was gassed by then, and obviously the pressure ratchets up. Bradley would have taken a PK even if Giovinco had been able to stay on. Our other PKs in the first 5 were good. Moor may have been bumped if Giovinco had been there, but Moor's kick was perfect. (Actually PK #5 is often assigned to a very reliable kicker, so more likely Johnson or Cheyrou would have been out if Giovinco were there. But Johnson's & Cheyrou's kicks were also very good.)

By #6 it's really a crapshoot what would have happened with a different roster. I think Morrow is considered a very calm & reliable player, you saw that with his finishing skills in front of net during the season.

Funny that Roman Torres won the game with the exact same shot that Morrow missed just before him: high & up the middle. Basically a hard Panenka. Not sure if Morrow planned to go the middle, but it works well if done right. 3 cm lower and the whole conversation changes.

Funny also that Fox missed the winning goal in their broadcast, because Torres took it so quickly. http://www.mediaite.com/online/fox-misses-game-winning-penalty-kick-in-mls-cup-championship-game/

Obviously the right thing to do was to win it before the penalties. Internally I gave up completely, and hardly cared, once the 120 minutes were over. However I don't think Vanney can fully control either Giovinco or Bradley. Especially in games like that, he's going to have allow them to cooperate. I.e. taking Giovinco out when he asked to be taken out. Before that Giovinco was stretching a couple of times, obviously hoping to recover enough to stay in.

Ben - D.O.W.
12-15-2016, 04:33 PM
At around the 83rd minute I was telling my buddies next to me that they need to sub Giovinco off because he doesn't look like he has any more to give and we need Ricketts to add some speed and something different.

There were a number of folks in 111 (including myself) saying the same thing. He looked done.

Canary10
12-15-2016, 04:41 PM
Why do people assume that a guy who is cramping so badly he can barely move, would have his usual efficiency rate in penalties?

That makes no sense.

It's all conversation. I was one saying keep him out to have your best penalty taker on the pitch. Maybe he was really that done that he couldn't have taken a kick. I don't know. But given we lost people look at what might have been done differently. I've also played enough to know that you put those same five players out to take pks again, the result would be different. i.e. it's a coin toss.

ensco
12-15-2016, 04:50 PM
There were a number of folks in 111 (including myself) saying the same thing. He looked done.

You didn't need to be in 111.

He never looked like himself at any point in the final.

jabbronies
12-15-2016, 04:55 PM
I really wish there was a collectors ticket or an MLS Cup final program.

Canary10
12-15-2016, 05:08 PM
Oh man. I really thought after Moor scored Irwin was going to save the next kick. Fate seemed to intervene in our favour so many times over the playoff run. So many twists and turns. So damn close.

CBTFC
12-15-2016, 06:37 PM
MLS Cup final program.

Damn, that's something that didn't even cross my mind until I read your comment. Yeah, now thinking about it, it would've seemed more than logical/obvious to produce and hand out to everyone a sweet MLS Cup Final program. I don't even care if it was 50% sponsored pages mixed with 50% content/stats about the teams and players. With a nice designed cover.

That would've been the perfect momento.

Davenport
12-15-2016, 06:47 PM
Damn, that's something that didn't even cross my mind until I read your comment. Yeah, now thinking about it, it would've seemed more than logical/obvious to produce and hand out to everyone a sweet MLS Cup Final program. I don't even care if it was 50% sponsored pages mixed with 50% content/stats about the teams and players. With a nice designed cover.

That would've been the perfect momento.

There wasn't a programme ??!! What a joke. It may not have been sweet but at least it would have been a memento. This league is so far behind others it's not funny. Refereeing for one is a huge problem.

Auzzy
12-15-2016, 11:45 PM
In case anyone was planning to forget about that cross, header and save, here it is from 12 different broadcasts around the world...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/14/stefan-freis-magical-mls-cup-save-12-different-broadcasts?autoplay=true

Fort York Redcoat
12-16-2016, 11:44 AM
Saw an unofficial Cosmos buying Red Bull thing today. Hope to see a link or something soon.

sn0re
12-16-2016, 11:48 AM
Saw an unofficial Cosmos buying Red Bull thing today. Hope to see a link or something soon.

http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/cosmos2.php?article_id=46669

Soccer Mum
12-16-2016, 01:25 PM
In case anyone was planning to forget about that cross, header and save, here it is from 12 different broadcasts around the world...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/14/stefan-freis-magical-mls-cup-save-12-different-broadcasts?autoplay=true


I am not sure why you would share this?

Sad!

Fort York Redcoat
12-16-2016, 02:01 PM
The Re-Entry Draft part one at 3pm:

here (http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/16/mls-announces-list-players-eligible-stage-1-re-entry-draft?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=News&utm_campaign=Unpaid)

Williams
Lovitz

Kyle Bekker
Chris Konopka

and Canadian Karl Ouimette

RealG-TFC
12-16-2016, 02:32 PM
Wonder if Ouimette is worth a shot.

Fort York Redcoat
12-16-2016, 03:05 PM
Wonder if Ouimette is worth a shot.

I'm sorry to say but no. Not if the intention is first team. I think he has it in him but after the past couple seasons he's had I'd rather watch him improve elsewhere.

flamehawk
12-16-2016, 03:24 PM
well that was anti-climatic once again. No one picked.

Fort York Redcoat
12-16-2016, 05:21 PM
well that was anti-climatic once again. No one picked.

Not according to

this (http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/16/three-players-selected-stage-1-mls-re-entry-draft)

Part 2 is next Thurs where teams can renegotiate the contracts of those selected.

MightyDM
12-19-2016, 10:38 PM
It's taken me until tonight to even dare read the boards. Crushing. Well done boys, great season, Montreal so so sweet. But. I never thought they would lose, ever, until they did. And it was like, WTF???

as for the debates, the two legged format including away goals produced incredibly exciting soccer. Keep that.

For me, bring Ricketts on at half time. We are the home team, we gotta score. And keep Gio on for the penalties, even if hurt.

what a season! But so TFC to have our former player be the MVP. Sheesh.

Sonny Cheeba
12-20-2016, 10:34 AM
as for the debates, the two legged format including away goals produced incredibly exciting soccer. Keep that.

.

NYCFC might not say the same. lol.

I prefer the one game final. The success of a two-legged format at being exciting depends heavily on the quality of the competition and the outcome of game 1. At least you can go into the one game final knowing it's going to begin and end there.

Yohan
12-20-2016, 07:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oBymWTnU3k

DinamoTFC
12-21-2016, 12:39 AM
^^^^^ This was a great video. I love behind the scenes stuff and wish there was more of it.

RealG-TFC
12-21-2016, 02:04 AM
Good video, kind of hard to watch at the end. Can;t believe it was less than a week and a half ago.

Soccer Mum
12-21-2016, 11:05 AM
Good video. We should remember the positives of the season.

We had shots on net, held steady in the D, and Giovinco won us plenty of PKs. That was just the season.

We beat Montreal by scoring some road goals and then made it to the final.

C.Ronaldo
12-21-2016, 11:47 AM
^^^^^ This was a great video. I love behind the scenes stuff and wish there was more of it.

how is that guy >30?

OgtheDim
12-23-2016, 12:56 PM
A couple of atmosphere take aways from the playoff run:

Both the East and the West stands found their own voices. I heard chants start from both sides and take off around the stadium. Yes, the simple ones but still...that dynamic can only be good for crowd dynamics.

I also think the sections following the south's lead moved farther north past 221 into 222 and beyond.

Those two last games were epic in terms of the affect on supporter psyche - going to be interesting to see how that changed how the non south involves itself now. Not that the whole stadium is going to spend the season standing but we might have seen the tipping point of stadium involvement reached.

theaub
12-23-2016, 01:07 PM
Eh I doubt it

No different than when the Jays/Raps go on their playoff runs. Everyone in the crowd gets all hyped because PLAYOFFS and then the crowds go right back to normal during the regular season

OgtheDim
12-23-2016, 04:23 PM
Eh I doubt it

No different than when the Jays/Raps go on their playoff runs. Everyone in the crowd gets all hyped because PLAYOFFS and then the crowds go right back to normal during the regular season

The difference being the majority of us in the stands for the Montreal game were actual season seat holders - there are 18K+ of us going up to 20K next year we've been told. We'll see as I said but there was something different in the air all season, and it wasn't just the new roof/canopy/umbrella.

Hamilton_Red
12-23-2016, 05:20 PM
It's taken me until tonight to even dare read the boards. Crushing. Well done boys, great season, Montreal so so sweet. But. I never thought they would lose, ever, until they did. And it was like, WTF???

as for the debates, the two legged format including away goals produced incredibly exciting soccer. Keep that.

For me, bring Ricketts on at half time. We are the home team, we gotta score. And keep Gio on for the penalties, even if hurt.

what a season! But so TFC to have our former player be the MVP. Sheesh.

For me the single game final has to be played at a neutral ground to have sporting integrity. A home and away would be fine for me - but I get the spectacle of a Cup Final. Until we have that the panacea in this league is the Supporters Shield. Dallas won the league and were the best team overall. MLS got real lucky with that final a week later and there was 12"+ of snow.

DinamoTFC
12-23-2016, 08:07 PM
Nope neutral site never again. Boring and no one cares. It's great the way it is. Only possible change would be 2 games.

SirBobSaget
12-23-2016, 11:56 PM
For me the single game final has to be played at a neutral ground to have sporting integrity. A home and away would be fine for me - but I get the spectacle of a Cup Final. Until we have that the panacea in this league is the Supporters Shield. Dallas won the league and were the best team overall. MLS got real lucky with that final a week later and there was 12"+ of snow.
Makes the regular season even more important and not just about sqeaking into playoffs.