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View Full Version : MLS reaches verbal agreement to bring expansion team to St. Louis.



Red CB Toronto
11-17-2016, 08:29 PM
Now this will be another great road trip, amazing BBQ in a city with a rich footy history.

http://www.ksdk.com/sports/soccer/mls-reaches-verbal-agreement-to-bring-expansion-team-to-st-louis/353574938

Initial B
11-18-2016, 12:56 AM
Just stayed over this summer. The loop is a great place to get some good eats. The Arch is pretty impressive close up as well. It should have all its reconditioning done by 2018.

ensco
11-18-2016, 06:14 AM
St Louis should have had a team 20 years ago. There is a great documentary out there about St Louis soccer, they have had more local soccer there for longer than almost anywhere else in the US.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_for_Champions

Does this mean Preki is back in MLS?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/21/preki-finds-new-spirit-in-st-louis-after-16-months-in-wilderness/

Oldtimer
11-18-2016, 09:43 AM
Does this mean Preki is back in MLS?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/21/preki-finds-new-spirit-in-st-louis-after-16-months-in-wilderness/

https://league-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/mp6/imagecache/620x350/sites/default/files/image_nodes/2010/08/Preki_620.jpg

kodiakTFC
11-18-2016, 09:52 AM
MLS 28 will include..

24. Miami
25. St. Louis
26. Sacramento
27. Cincinnati
28. Vegas/San Antonio/Detriot

Detroit_TFC
11-18-2016, 10:23 AM
Surprised to see STL is 21st in top 100 US media markets. Thought it was much lower.

STL at one time was a considered a top metro area, not so much in the last 50 years.

Capt.Cro
11-18-2016, 11:31 AM
When will the MLS stop expanding? If they plan on going to 30 or 32 teams, they should definitely consider implementing two tiers with relegation and promotion back and forth.

kodiakTFC
11-18-2016, 01:00 PM
When will the MLS stop expanding? If they plan on going to 30 or 32 teams, they should definitely consider implementing two tiers with relegation and promotion back and forth.

We know its going to 28. We don't know if/where it will stop.

Capt.Cro
11-18-2016, 02:04 PM
That just seems excessive to me...

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-18-2016, 02:54 PM
When will the MLS stop expanding? If they plan on going to 30 or 32 teams, they should definitely consider implementing two tiers with relegation and promotion back and forth.


Will have to raise the cap....At 32 the league will be watered down...raising the cap will attracked more tallent.

But would love a two tier MLS.....brings excitment from top to bottom of the leagues!!

Cant see it happening though

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-18-2016, 02:56 PM
That just seems excessive to me...


At a 100mill a pop...its never enough..lol

Imagine 10 years ago it was 10million..lol

And David Beckham the genious he is locked in at that rate when he signed his contract....knowing one day he would have a team.... Genious!

Capt.Cro
11-18-2016, 03:31 PM
I fear getting too big too fast. Mind you the MLS has been around for 20 years but that's from not being too ambitious in the beginning. You're absolutely right about watering down talent though with so many expansion drafts... Cap raise would be great but it may also hinder the smaller market teams which would then again cause a regression. I imagine them (hopefully) stretching to 28 over at least the next 10 years though.

kodiakTFC
11-18-2016, 04:01 PM
Will have to raise the cap....At 32 the league will be watered down...raising the cap will attracked more tallent.

But would love a two tier MLS.....brings excitment from top to bottom of the leagues!!

Cant see it happening though

Yes and no on the talent issue. Soccer is an international game, there is a ton of talent out there. They would just have to make the domestic quota a little lower.

Initial B
11-18-2016, 06:36 PM
Garber came from the NFL so I'm sure that 32 teams for him is the Holy Grail. It would allow for 2 conferences of 4 divisions each and a 34-game schedule playing intra-division home-and-away series and alternating 1 game home then away every other team in the league.

And there is no way they have two levels of play because that runs the risk of having New York and LA teams at different levels, which would make the TV networks balk.

And yes, the product might be a little watered down at first, but imagine that 20 years after the 32 teams is reached, the US will be a powerhouse with each MLS academy producing 1 world-class player every 10 years - that would be 32 world-class players constantly coming down the pipeline and regenerating their base in every generation.

ensco
11-18-2016, 08:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JARDvdrAxk
Surprised to see STL is 21st in top 100 US media markets. Thought it was much lower.

STL at one time was a considered a top metro area, not so much in the last 50 years.

PAOK17
11-18-2016, 10:31 PM
When will the MLS stop expanding? If they plan on going to 30 or 32 teams, they should definitely consider implementing two tiers with relegation and promotion back and forth. I don't expect there ever will be promotion/relegation. If not, I rather they go into a two league system where you only play within your conference. Maybe the occasional cross conference games similar to MLB's interleague play. Make it two single tables, with the champion of each playing in a two legged MLS Cup final. Ah who am I kidding? We all know it's going to be the NFL...32 teams, 8 divisions.

The funny thing is, promotion and relegation can actually work if you know how to sell it properly. Look at the NBA or NHL. How often does a team go from bottom 5 to a playoff spot within a year? The Leafs with all their talent probably won't even make the playoffs and everyone is ok with that. In other words, it's a year where they'd be hoping to be "promoted" into the top half of the league. They're a perfect example of a team trying to make that next step, and promotion to top flight would be a great measuring stick. For a team that is relegated, all it means is that they have at least a year of rebuilding. I know North Americans love the idea of an open top flight league, but let's be serious. The NBA is has two super teams, maybe 4 good teams, a handful of mediocre teams, and a bunch of really bad teams. I don't think 76ers fans need to be told by a promotion/relegation system that they aren't good enough to challenge the top flight teams.

Just a thought.

Capt.Cro
11-21-2016, 09:05 AM
I don't expect there ever will be promotion/relegation. If not, I rather they go into a two league system where you only play within your conference. Maybe the occasional cross conference games similar to MLB's interleague play. Make it two single tables, with the champion of each playing in a two legged MLS Cup final. Ah who am I kidding? We all know it's going to be the NFL...32 teams, 8 divisions.

The funny thing is, promotion and relegation can actually work if you know how to sell it properly. Look at the NBA or NHL. How often does a team go from bottom 5 to a playoff spot within a year? The Leafs with all their talent probably won't even make the playoffs and everyone is ok with that. In other words, it's a year where they'd be hoping to be "promoted" into the top half of the league. They're a perfect example of a team trying to make that next step, and promotion to top flight would be a great measuring stick. For a team that is relegated, all it means is that they have at least a year of rebuilding. I know North Americans love the idea of an open top flight league, but let's be serious. The NBA is has two super teams, maybe 4 good teams, a handful of mediocre teams, and a bunch of really bad teams. I don't think 76ers fans need to be told by a promotion/relegation system that they aren't good enough to challenge the top flight teams.

Just a thought.

Firstly, I generally agree. However, on the two tier NBA comment, maybe it wouldn’t be that poorly accepted by fans as you’d think. Would the 76ers fans want to see their team keep getting dismantled by the Warriors and Cavaliers of the league on a regular basis OR not face them at all for a season while they work their kinks out? If they played in a lower tier, they’d only face other teams that are also not doing so well or rebuilding, which would raise their likelihood of getting a win and thus keeping fans happier. The reasonable fan would have to acknowledge that their team isn’t going to win any championships with any top caliber players but playing in a lower tear will help them get some more wins for their fans to enjoy and gives them something to chase throughout the season in being able to play with the big boys the following season, or at least play against everyone for the first half of the season, and break into two tiers for the rest of the season for the sake of competitiveness. This is how the national league in Belgium and I think also in Poland work (for soccer) and it seems to be working well for them.

Not having consequences to poor performance is a very North American thing to do. Also why we give our kids participation medals.

Back to the main subject of this thread however, saw a great quote by our friend Kurt Larson in a Toronto Sun article from the weekend on the St. Louis subject:

” And you get an expansion team! And you get an expansion team! And you get an expansion team!
Major League Soccer is handing out expansion franchises faster than one of Oprah’s trademark holiday giveaways.”

How True of a statement that is.

Canary10
11-21-2016, 09:43 AM
I don't expect there ever will be promotion/relegation. If not, I rather they go into a two league system where you only play within your conference. Maybe the occasional cross conference games similar to MLB's interleague play. Make it two single tables, with the champion of each playing in a two legged MLS Cup final. Ah who am I kidding? We all know it's going to be the NFL...32 teams, 8 divisions.

The funny thing is, promotion and relegation can actually work if you know how to sell it properly. Look at the NBA or NHL. How often does a team go from bottom 5 to a playoff spot within a year? The Leafs with all their talent probably won't even make the playoffs and everyone is ok with that. In other words, it's a year where they'd be hoping to be "promoted" into the top half of the league. They're a perfect example of a team trying to make that next step, and promotion to top flight would be a great measuring stick. For a team that is relegated, all it means is that they have at least a year of rebuilding. I know North Americans love the idea of an open top flight league, but let's be serious. The NBA is has two super teams, maybe 4 good teams, a handful of mediocre teams, and a bunch of really bad teams. I don't think 76ers fans need to be told by a promotion/relegation system that they aren't good enough to challenge the top flight teams.

Just a thought.

This is what I would like to see too. Would also make the MLS Cup more interesting, as the World Series is.

jabbronies
11-21-2016, 10:10 AM
MLB has 30 teams. Two conferences that really for the most part, run separate from each other.

Wonder if this is the route MLS takes - cuts travel costs not having to fly across the country for games against teams you have no real rivalry against.

Red4ever
11-21-2016, 10:10 AM
Yeah I mean I think it's an easier sell if they swallow up a bunch of NASL USL teams and get to 60. 20/20/20 - That way it isn't good and bad, but rather different levels to suit different needs. You could argue that's a net positive for all.

It would allow the top tier to attack lots of talent from around the world becoming arguably a top 5 league in the world (Bun, Prem, Liga, Serie) and have the second tier bring up academy players. I also firmly believe there are some cities who wouldn't want to compete in the top tier and, realistically, financially couldn't.

Always struck me as hilarious that north american sports hate promotion relegation which is inherently capitalist. Of course America is corporatist and protectionist more than it is capitalist anyway. Certainly the league is.

kodiakTFC
11-21-2016, 12:20 PM
MLB has 30 teams. Two conferences that really for the most part, run separate from each other.

Wonder if this is the route MLS takes - cuts travel costs not having to fly across the country for games against teams you have no real rivalry against.

Honestly. This is probably the best approach. 15 teams in your conference means 28 games home/away in conference leaving 6 matches for interconference play. I could see some smaller teams being upset about losing out on Galaxy matches but NYCFC kind of balances that out.

ryan
11-21-2016, 03:13 PM
Two leagues that stay within is nice. Less travel makes it easier for road trips and generating history between sides.

Though would be strange to go long stretches without playing Vancouver? KC has some history on the eastern side too. I guess we'd all get over it eventually.

Capt.Cro
11-22-2016, 01:18 PM
http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-soccer/story/2998963/promotion-relegation-a-good-idea-in-the-us-down-the-road-study

well well

Redcoe15
01-04-2017, 10:51 AM
So much for a verbal agreement to bring an MLS team to St. Louis.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/3031427/missouri-governor-elect-rules-out-any-funding-for-mls-stadium-in-st-louis

As the saying goes, don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

C.Ronaldo
01-04-2017, 12:52 PM
MLS 28 will include..

24. Miami
25. St. Louis
26. Sacramento
27. Cincinnati
28. Vegas/San Antonio/Detriot

how do you play in vegas from june to sept?

san antonio is a pizza oven aswell in the summer

Yohan
01-04-2017, 04:10 PM
how do you play in vegas from june to sept?

san antonio is a pizza oven aswell in the summer
they just will... just like how they will play in Orlando, Dallas and Houston during the summer

kodiakTFC
01-06-2017, 01:23 AM
how do you play in vegas from june to sept?

san antonio is a pizza oven aswell in the summer

To be fair I never said I wanted these places. Just seems where we're headed. Houston is hotter than hell too. They play a lot of games at night and lot of games earlier in the season before it gets too hot.

C.Ronaldo
01-06-2017, 10:17 AM
they just will... just like how they will play in Orlando, Dallas and Houston during the summer


i understand, but right now they try to work around it with other regions. But when have 8-10 of the teams in unbearable conditions, your options become limited

Vegas is not like the others in july/aug. its just not possible. Its so dry you will you dehydrate within the first half

Initial B
01-06-2017, 12:48 PM
I was just in Vegas over the summer and the heat really wasn't too bad after the sun went down. It was 40C in the day but it didn't feel that hot because it was so dry. FIFA allows a water break for each half, so I'm sure Qatar games would be the model that MLS would follow in Vegas and Phoenix. I foresee future schedules with home games early and late in the season skewed towards the southern cities and July-August home games would be skewed towards the northern MLS cities.

james
01-06-2017, 03:23 PM
St.Louis is a rather small city that has been hurting for some years. 1950 population use to be around 800k-900k and rather denesely built, probably more like older Toronto neighbourhoods you see. Today only around 300k people live in St.Louis, huge decrease in population has left many poor neighbourhoods without some basic necessities, many schools abandoned. Much of the population has fled to the suburban sprawls (suburb sprawls after the 50s really hurt some American Cities, left the cities with no one to move into the city to replace those that left, job losses in the industrial work force was an even bigger effect tho). Much similar to that of cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Baltimore. They also recently lost there NFL team.

Hope a new MLS team can help in whatever way it can. City needs more then a sports team to turn it around, but might help some corner of the city.

james
01-06-2017, 03:49 PM
I would like to see 16-clubs in East and 16-clubs West. West and East don't play each other at all (not even cross over for 6 games). West play each other home and away (30 games)' and same with the West (30 games). Single tier League west and east, having a League Champion (1st place finish) followed by playoff format of east vs East and west vs west clubs, Final MLS cup however west champions play east champions (I wouldn't mind a 2 leg final, gives both set of fans a chance to see there club in a final at home, all other sports minus NFL have a best of 7...a 2-leg final isn't a far fetch.)

some clubs might say "oh but we don"t get to play LA Galaxy" or "We don't play NYCFC"....I personally wouldn't care, we would have our own East league teams to compete with and the west would have the west, and have better rivals among the 2 leagues. I would hate to adjust an entire league just to squeeze in a game of Columbus vs LA Galaxy because Columbus want there fans to see Galaxy. Also I would like to point out we could still play teams from the opposite east-west leagues in the US Open Cup/Canadian Championship and Concacaf Champions League (I would actually like Canada Championship to just join US Open Cup). It could maybe help grow the US Open cup to a higher level as clubs who hardly get to play against each other now get a chance. Also that US Open Cup has a lot of clubs competing, wish it would get more respect.

Also with 2 Leagues (East - west) you could go even up to 34-40 clubs in MLS. 18-east, 18-west = 34 games. 19 clubs = 36 games. 20 clubs = 38 games.

it is the only way MLS could have a single tier format like in Europe (promotion and relegation will not happen). Any other format in MLS will have wonky unbalanced schedule in MLS, which many supporters on this form and I'm sure others hate. Down side is tho that the majority of regular fans might not see a problem with these unbalanced schedules as they do it in all other sports in USA/Canada.

Richard
01-06-2017, 06:43 PM
I would like to see 16-clubs in East and 16-clubs West. West and East don't play each other at all (not even cross over for 6 games). West play each other home and away (30 games)' and same with the West (30 games). Single tier League west and east, having a League Champion (1st place finish) followed by playoff format of east vs East and west vs west clubs, Final MLS cup however west champions play east champions (I wouldn't mind a 2 leg final, gives both set of fans a chance to see there club in a final at home, all other sports minus NFL have a best of 7...a 2-leg final isn't a far fetch.)

some clubs might say "oh but we don"t get to play LA Galaxy" or "We don't play NYCFC"....I personally wouldn't care, we would have our own East league teams to compete with and the west would have the west, and have better rivals among the 2 leagues. I would hate to adjust an entire league just to squeeze in a game of Columbus vs LA Galaxy because Columbus want there fans to see Galaxy. Also I would like to point out we could still play teams from the opposite east-west leagues in the US Open Cup/Canadian Championship and Concacaf Champions League (I would actually like Canada Championship to just join US Open Cup). It could maybe help grow the US Open cup to a higher level as clubs who hardly get to play against each other now get a chance. Also that US Open Cup has a lot of clubs competing, wish it would get more respect.

Also with 2 Leagues (East - west) you could go even up to 34-40 clubs in MLS. 18-east, 18-west = 34 games. 19 clubs = 36 games. 20 clubs = 38 games.

it is the only way MLS could have a single tier format like in Europe (promotion and relegation will not happen). Any other format in MLS will have wonky unbalanced schedule in MLS, which many supporters on this form and I'm sure others hate. Down side is tho that the majority of regular fans might not see a problem with these unbalanced schedules as they do it in all other sports in USA/Canada.

I like this idea a lot and MLB did this years ago with NL AL not playing against each other. Ultimately it comes down to revenue and this probably doesn't increase the TV numbers if teams are not being showcased around the league.

Competitively this format would work, in fact its probably the best case scenario we can get because of how huge the continent is.

gmacpheetfc
01-07-2017, 06:50 AM
I agree were already goin to be the biggest top flight in a few years once Argentina scales back their first division.

kodiakTFC
01-07-2017, 10:46 AM
I would like to see 16-clubs in East and 16-clubs West. West and East don't play each other at all (not even cross over for 6 games). West play each other home and away (30 games)' and same with the West (30 games). Single tier League west and east, having a League Champion (1st place finish) followed by playoff format of east vs East and west vs west clubs, Final MLS cup however west champions play east champions (I wouldn't mind a 2 leg final, gives both set of fans a chance to see there club in a final at home, all other sports minus NFL have a best of 7...a 2-leg final isn't a far fetch.)

some clubs might say "oh but we don"t get to play LA Galaxy" or "We don't play NYCFC"....I personally wouldn't care, we would have our own East league teams to compete with and the west would have the west, and have better rivals among the 2 leagues. I would hate to adjust an entire league just to squeeze in a game of Columbus vs LA Galaxy because Columbus want there fans to see Galaxy. Also I would like to point out we could still play teams from the opposite east-west leagues in the US Open Cup/Canadian Championship and Concacaf Champions League (I would actually like Canada Championship to just join US Open Cup). It could maybe help grow the US Open cup to a higher level as clubs who hardly get to play against each other now get a chance. Also that US Open Cup has a lot of clubs competing, wish it would get more respect.

Also with 2 Leagues (East - west) you could go even up to 34-40 clubs in MLS. 18-east, 18-west = 34 games. 19 clubs = 36 games. 20 clubs = 38 games.

it is the only way MLS could have a single tier format like in Europe (promotion and relegation will not happen). Any other format in MLS will have wonky unbalanced schedule in MLS, which many supporters on this form and I'm sure others hate. Down side is tho that the majority of regular fans might not see a problem with these unbalanced schedules as they do it in all other sports in USA/Canada.

This the format I've championed for years. Let me also add to your point that a East/West league or conference system such as this would really cut down on the leagues ridiculous travel requirements. Toronto to Florida is still a long trip but its no Toronto to Seattle or LA.

Initial B
01-09-2017, 01:12 PM
I could see them rounding out such a schedule with 4 games against opposite conference rivals. They could have their intraconference 30 games and then a home and away series against a 2 designated rivals for the last 4 games. Obviously the New York and Los Angeles teams would be paired up, as would Toronto/Montreal and Vancouver plus some other West team (Seattle?). Whichever cross-conference matchups that will get the best TV ratings.

jabbronies
01-10-2017, 10:28 AM
I could see them rounding out such a schedule with 4 games against opposite conference rivals. They could have their intraconference 30 games and then a home and away series against a 2 designated rivals for the last 4 games. Obviously the New York and Los Angeles teams would be paired up, as would Toronto/Montreal and Vancouver plus some other West team (Seattle?). Whichever cross-conference matchups that will get the best TV ratings.


I guess the big issue with this is balanced competition.

Playing against the Galaxy vs playing against Vancouver could be seen as unfair scheduling of playing a stronger team in the Galaxy whereas another team gets a weaker team in Vancouver.

Initial B
01-10-2017, 12:27 PM
It's not balanced as it is, with there being a demonstrated advantage to playing at home. That's one of the reasons that playoffs are required to determine who is really the best. :)

Red I
01-11-2017, 12:04 PM
Publicly funded stadium ain't happening - it's about time USA taxpayers stop getting swindled by these rich as hell owners

http://deadspin.com/plan-to-steal-money-from-st-louis-in-order-to-build-ml-1791034875