MatchDay 31 - The Lions Better Sleep Tonight - Orlando @ TFC Wed Sept 28 7:30 pm

[OgtheDim]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/88/The_Lion_Sleeps_Tonight_by_The_Tokens_single_cover .jpg/220px-The_Lion_Sleeps_Tonight_by_The_Tokens_single_cover .jpg


**********

Have at it People

[OgtheDim]

Ok, I'm going to say something:

Win

Just freaking win.

I don't care about how this team has achieved x and is in y position. I'm tired of people involved in this team talking about how the goal is more then the playoffs. Stop taking airs. Win damn it. We've had 3 home games in a row with high expectations and have come away with 2 points. That's not good enough.

I don't care how good this defence has been. I don't care about how good the offence has been, how Vanney is doing, how much we are better then last season.

Stow the Supporter's Shield talk. Stop it with the "we are aiming for more" talk.

Win this freaking game.

Then, and only then, lets talk about what happens in the next game.

Orlando is very beatable at our home. But until we actually do it, none of this talk of anything beyond this game. Win, and then we can talk about what the possibilities are.

Everything else is fantasy.

Time to shut up and put up.


Win.

Nothing else is acceptable.

[Oldtimer]

Agreed. I'm fed up with the talk. We were supposed to see wins against these teams, let's see them. Only results matter.

[Auzzy]

^ I totally agree! Just win.

TFC is putting out too many textbook examples of how teams can beat us in the playoffs, or at least tie us at home. Everybody is watching the tapes, taking notes, getting ready. Need to mix it up, and blow a team away for a change.

[molenshtain]

Orlando can't defend as a team, especially through midfield. We'll win this game easily.

[Joe Kool]

Orlando can't defend as a team, especially through midfield. We'll win this game easily.

I think that is too overconfident given how bad and flat and disjointed TFC have been playing recently. Larin and Kaka will create good chances.

[Jack]

One thing I noticed against Philly is that, when we play the ball out wide, there is often no one drifting into the hot zone right in the middle, just outside the box. So if they close down on the wing, we have. The option of either trying to beat the defence off the dribble to get inside, trying to get to the line for a cross, or swinging it back out to Bradley or the centre backs at the base of the diamond. Giovinco often drifts into that space and Altidore was doing it a few games ago, but it seemed like there was a consistent void there last night, which limited our options.

[Cashcleaner]

I don't know about anyone else, but I want us to lift that Supporters Shield this season. Luckily for us, Orlando's defence is shambolic - they are leading the league in Goals Against (57). I'm liking our chances for Wednesday's game, but would rather not see a repeat of the performance from yesterday.

[anto7]

Don't want to jinx us but I probably will, a win guarantees our first ever home play-off game

[Red CB Toronto]

How about we get a bunch of Oranges and when the Reds best Orlando on Wednesday night, we throw them up in the air to thank the great state of Florida for our first ever playoff game at home?

[molenshtain]

I think that is too overconfident given how bad and flat and disjointed TFC have been playing recently. Larin and Kaka will create good chances.

perhaps. But Orlando is the exact type of team we mop the floor with. If we get our guys back from injury, we'll win by multiple goals

[Ivy]

How about we get a bunch of Oranges and when the Reds best Orlando on Wednesday night, we throw them up in the air to thank the great state of Florida for our first ever playoff game at home?
Great idea.
Or you can take those oranges, and give them to that hundreds of hungry people that live on Toronto streets.

[notthesun]

If we play well, we should crush Orlando. So I hope the team is ready to play well.

[Blindside16]

As was already stated in this post.... Just win. We have to mark Larin close and apply pressure for a full 90. I'm really sick of the flat starts and having to play from behind.

[mastermixer]

Orlando are fighting for a playoff spot just 3 points below the last spot. I guess we will see who wants this win more on Wednesday.

[Yohan]

Win this game against shitty Orlando and 2 pts to SS with both TFC and Dallas have 3 games left.

Except... TFC chokes on crunch time and Dallas is more consistent

[Red4ever]

So... Are we going splits on oranges or not?...

[Pint]

Win this game against shitty Orlando and 2 pts to SS with both TFC and Dallas have 3 games left.

Except... TFC chokes on crunch time and Dallas is more consistent

except Dallas play the Galaxy twice and a suddenly very hot Sounders team to finish the season, where we would have DC, Mtl and Chicago left.

Certainly possible we make up points on them (1-1-1 Dallas finish and 2-1-0 finish for us assuming we beat Orlando) and if we tied we would have the tie breaker as we would likely tie on wins but have a better goal differential.

[OgtheDim]

I'm assuming they are all looking at game film and will see what a Philly Union beat reporter saw

https://twitter.com/Kevin_Kinkead/status/780445565138206721


Gotta get through this.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm assuming they are all looking at game film and will see what a Philly Union beat reporter saw

https://twitter.com/Kevin_Kinkead/status/780445565138206721


Gotta get through this.

2 years running of us getting shut down from the press with no answers yet. Seba will not be the answer alone.

[Pint]

Seba for Hamilton and Cooper for Cheyrou and we are a much more dynamic team.

Ricketts off the bench for late game speed as well

[molenshtain]

2 years running of us getting shut down from the press with no answers yet. Seba will not be the answer alone.

I don't think that's actually a trend. I can think of multiple games the last two years where we handled the high press pretty well.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It's been a busy year for Bendik. Let's keep that up Wednesday.

[mowe]

Seba for Hamilton and Cooper for Cheyrou and we are a much more dynamic team.
Yeah those two players will make a big difference. I especially think Cooper in the starting lineup will help our midfield a lot. Too bad he got himself suspended for a game, we need to get him well integrated before the playoffs.

[jloome]

2 years running of us getting shut down from the press with no answers yet. Seba will not be the answer alone.

Maybe we should set up three at the back. We've done really well this year when we've switched to it.

[mistercorporate]

Seba for Hamilton and Cooper for Cheyrou and we are a much more dynamic team.

Ricketts off the bench for late game speed as well

This.

[Ultra & Proud]

Maybe we should set up three at the back. We've done really well this year when we've switched to it.
That could work and anyone know the injury status of Ricketts?

[Yohan]

I don't think that's actually a trend. I can think of multiple games the last two years where we handled the high press pretty well.

To beat a press, you need players comfortable with ball possession and not panic when pressed. A lot of NA players just aren't that comfortable with the press, hence why SKC and NYRB can play press and cause high turnover rate esp in opposition half.

We have Cheyrou and Bradley who are comfortable enough on the ball and can deliver accurate long range pass to a winger or forward running the channels. They just don't do this consistently enough. Bradley esp tried to launch longballs over the top to Altidore last game with varying success.

The DMs and defenders have to ID the press and make themselves available for a short pass as an outlet for whoever is being pressed.

The thing about high press is that it commits a lot of players try to cut off all the passing lanes and leaves you open if the ball does get passed to opposite half, leaving your defence exposed.
It also uses up a lot of energy and tires you out, especially last third of the game. Which was what happened to NYRB, allowing TFC to dictate the tempo of the game and create chances, leaving NYRB to react, instead of trying to press.

It also helps to have a guy who can beat a player 1v1 on the dribble to beat the press and make a pass forward. IE Giovinco and Cooper.


Maybe we should set up three at the back. We've done really well this year when we've switched to it.
I agree, but only when playing a high press team. Vanney pushes up the fullbacks really high on attack to try to create a 2v1 situation which has been very successful. And as much as Bradley's errors are glaring when they do happen, between him and Cheyrou, TFC has been pretty good recycling possession from DMs that allows FBs to push up really high. (see low GPA avg)

But against high press teams, having that 3rd CB gives defenders and DMs another outlet to pass to on the press.

[ag futbol]

I'd disagree the DM's have been good a cycling the ball. It's been an issue, with the exception of cheyrou. Bradley, pretty much every time, looks wide left and right and then if that fails goes backwards or tries to play a ball over the top. Dominates the ball far too often. It needs to move faster.

Chapman and Cooper dropping back has been more effective because they see between the lines of the defenders a lot better.

[OgtheDim]

News from training today

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/780805804492460032

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/780813866821423104

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/780792109871820800

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/780795645783314432

[anto7]

Ricketts and Chapman cleared to play, Williams back in full training. Looks like we have lots of options now. I would bring Zav back in for Hagalund, Nick is a beast in the air but is really not very comfortable looking on the ball, where as Zav is quite composed on the ball. Maybe give Cooper the start instead of Cheyrou. I'm almost tempted to drop Johnson for Delgado. Love his passion and fearless tackling but he was really poor last game and Delgado came on and made an instant impression.
Maybe ease Ricketts back in off the bench around the 60 min mark when hopefully Orlando are starting to get tired. Last resort Seba off the bench if we are not winning?

[Ultra & Proud]

Let's see if Kreis is smarter than Heath was. Last year we had a similar scenario; we came off a few matches where we were stymied by the NYCFC press and then a copycat. Health came in and gave us all the time in the world and Orando got pooched. Does Kreis follow Philly's lead and challenge us to beat the press or does he try to play their game?

[jloome]

Let's see if Kreis is smarter than Heath was. Last year we had a similar scenario; we came off a few matches where we were stymied by the NYCFC press and then a copycat. Health came in and gave us all the time in the world and Orando got pooched. Does Kreis follow Philly's lead and challenge us to beat the press or does he try to play their game?

Seb Hines couldn't press an elevator button without getting beaten. They'll try and press because kreis likes high pressure and a diamond to quickly capitalize, but he doesn't have the right manpower to handle other teams' speed, which is why they've given up four in two straight.

We should start with three at the back and high fullbacks, Ricketts up top with Altidore.

[Redcoe15]

Toronto FC HAS to beat Shithole City. A draw, or worse, against their shitty defense would be seen as a huge defeat on the Reds part.

[ensco]

Expect a lot of squad rotation from Orlando tonight

"Kreis said the team did a lot of talking following its last defeat Saturday against D.C. United and many of the players who did not start in that match will get an opportunity in Toronto, so they need to be prepared."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-city-lions/os-orlando-city-toronto-fc-0928-20160927-story.html

[SoccMan2]

Wow" Shithole City" did you have a bad experience at Disney World when you were a kid lol, easy there mister I enjoy being at my condo in January through March in Orlando when it's -40 in Toronto with the windchill and dealing with ice and snow, "Shithole City "is a rather lovely place to be in those months when it's ugly weather wise in Toronto lol.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wow" Shithole City" did you have a bad experience at Disney World when you were a kid lol, easy there mister I enjoy being at my condo in January through March in Orlando when it's -40 in Toronto with the windchill and dealing with ice and snow, "Shithole City "is a rather lovely place to be in those months when it's ugly weather wise in Toronto lol.

Illuminating. My folks got a timeshare down there too. Don't take the banter as a hit on your Snowbird City. We all like actually travelling to most of these MLS destinations (Minus the obvious Trillium experience of course.)

Wouldn't it be funny if one day Orlando goes out of their way to make sure they have a Canadian on their team for Snowbirds (Well I guess they'd be full time snowbirds but you get my meaning):)

[C.Ronaldo]

Florida, lovely to visit but its not my cup of tea. Some really backwards laws and folks down there

Plus, wtf is up with angled parking in every parking lot?

[Richard]

Well that's a new one, is there a dictionary I can file "shitehole city" under, it fits right between Shitlumbus and Slaveowner City.

Lol. Wtf people.

[Pint]

Well that's a new one, is there a dictionary I can file "shitehole city" under, it fits right between Shitlumbus and Slaveowner City.

Lol. Wtf people.

Don't forget wankouver

[OgtheDim]

....Plus, wtf is up with angled parking in every parking lot?


"Hey, its way easier to get the station wagon or the Olds Cutlass into an angled parking spot!", says the voice of experience (well lying down in the back of the station wagon with about 9 people in the car).

[OgtheDim]

FWIW

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtcsiLNWYAAihMK.jpg:large

[Canary10]

If we had just a few less home draws we would be running away with the Supporters Shield. Really need a win tonight. We need first in the east at least.

[C.Ronaldo]

Babs earned a start, it just makes more sense.

Hamilton is a marksman and needs good service

[molenshtain]

I agree^ but I think it's more that Hamilton and Altidore are too similiar in playing style to start together. I'd prefer Ricketts to start too if he's healthy enough to go 60 mins.

[hulkrogan]

Wow" Shithole City" did you have a bad experience at Disney World when you were a kid lol, easy there mister I enjoy being at my condo in January through March in Orlando when it's -40 in Toronto with the windchill and dealing with ice and snow, "Shithole City "is a rather lovely place to be in those months when it's ugly weather wise in Toronto lol.

This is hilarious. It's like everyone that defends how awesome Phoenix is out here :facepalm:

As much as I love Cyle Larin, he can kindly piss off and save his goals for another match.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is hilarious. It's like everyone that defends how awesome Phoenix is out here :facepalm:

As much as I love Cyle Larin, he can kindly piss off and save his goals for another match.


Yup. And I'm country before club.

[witenite]

Sorry if it's wrong section but does bmo offer free rain ponchos at the game if it's raining?(or does Rogers ml $e nickel and dime us)

[Oldtimer]

Sorry if it's wrong section but does bmo offer free rain ponchos at the game if it's raining?(or does Rogers ml $e nickel and dime us)

You can buy ponchos in the team store. Buy early as they sell out.

[witenite]

How much they go for ?

[Pint]

if you're in liberty village before the game i'm sure the dollar store sells them as well.

[Redcoe15]

Florida makes Ohio look sane by comparison. And THAT'S saying something!

Shithole City needs to go down tonight!

[OgtheDim]

Won't sell out if they have the same stock as last season as there hasn't been a rain game but for one where it came in the north for a few minutes and most of the crowd is covered. It's sunny right now down here but the clouds are threatening something in the next 12 hours.

[witenite]

To shoeless Joe's i go

[mistercorporate]

Ricketts in for Hamilton, nothing else to discuss...we already know their gameplan! They're going to press us like the NY Shite-bulls.

[sn0re]

Bono in the starting XI. I thought Irwin would be good to go

[notthesun]

Squad rotation? Probably not for a keeper...

It's a mistake not to have Irwin as the clear #1 heading into the playoffs.

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/781259694341971969

[mistercorporate]

Bono in the starting XI. I thought Irwin would be good to go

I can agree with that, they're both good so give them one game per week.

[jloome]

Bono in the starting XI. I thought Irwin would be good to go

Strategy. Vanney expects Kreis to press a young keeper and that plays into their weakness. Very astute, if it works.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/OrlandoCitySC/status/781263803543617536

They have some attackers we need to be mindful of, but wow is that back line terrible.

[jloome]

https://twitter.com/OrlandoCitySC/status/781263803543617536

They have some attackers we need to be mindful of, but wow is that back line terrible.

He's benching Hines because he's terrible. This is actually better than they've had for the last four games, but still not an intimidating defence.

[Hugh Jazz]

First 15 minutes of this one should be interesting. Orlando isn't really a pressing team and I imagine they want to focus on defence first. TFC had a horrid start last week and the changes in midfield hopefully address that. Looking forward to kick off!

[GhostKiller]

Does anyone have a stream?

[andyboy]

I like this line-up! We're gonna win!!

[sn0re]

I see no banners on the south end and no noise on tv...is something up?

[CBTFC]

Same here...I'm on the MLS match center stream/feed and I don't hear any synchronized chanting/etc. Just generic crowd buzz

[aajking]

I see no banners on the south end and no noise on tv...is something up?


Same here...I'm on the MLS match center stream/feed and I don't hear any synchronized chanting/etc. Just generic crowd buzz

Wondering the same.

[Jack]

I believe they are staying silent in protest over sanctions by the FO. I don't know the full details as I've been out of the loop the past while.

[sn0re]

I believe they are staying silent in protest over sanctions by the FO. I don't know the full details as I've been out of the loop the past while.

Sanctions are only for Inebriatti, no?

[CBTFC]

Just heard a random air horn, that's about it. Lol

[Jack]

Sanctions are only for Inebriatti, no?
As far as I know, but we're all in this together.

[Jack]

Dichio song is on.

[General Woolfe]

Man, we desperately need an attacking midfielder who can unlock defences. Its the same thing everytime... out ot Morrow for a cross in, or a pass from Bradley though the middle, that gets cut off. We really miss Seba's invention in the final third

[Yohan]

Man, we desperately need an attacking midfielder who can unlock defences. Its the same thing everytime... out ot Morrow for a cross in, or a pass from Bradley though the middle, that gets cut off. We really miss Seba's invention in the final third
I think Osorio is having a good game so far. He created 2 great chances already

[mistercorporate]

Arnando Ronaldo with the leg moves..

[mistercorporate]

Hard to take Drew Moor seriously for penalty calls, he always smiles even when he's mad! lol

[sn0re]

As far as I know, but we're all in this together.

All For One..

[General Woolfe]

I think Osorio is having a good game so far. He created 2 great chances already

Our final pass (and Oso's) is generally very poor. Oh for a Kljestan

[notthesun]

We'd have 2 or 3 if Giovinco was playing, the amount of space they're giving us in their own half is incredible. We're just missing a little quality to convert the space into goals.

[Hugh Jazz]

Yup, Oso is having one of his better games. When the opposition makes a sub first half to add a second DM that can be taken as a compliment.

[mistercorporate]

Osorio is MLS elite in terms of playmaking and footwork, in terms of everything else he sucks balls. Practice your goal scoring homie.

[General Woolfe]

Poor first half. We really need to be much more incisive. I dont get whats holding up Seba's return. Surely if he's eyeballing a comeback at the weekend, Vanney could have him on the bench tonight

[Yohan]

Seba supposedly failed the fitness test today

[molenshtain]

Osorio is MLS elite in terms of playmaking and footwork, in terms of everything else he sucks balls. Practice your goal scoring homie.

He's not an elite playmaker in any sense. He plays one through ball every five games. Has very inconsistent vision/decision making.

[notthesun]

Morrow has better finishing than Osorio lol

[CBTFC]

Man, if Osorio could close out his chances he would be one of our top scorers this year

[andyboy]

Man, if Osorio could close out his chances he would be one of our top scorers this year

I'm almost always willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but tonight he couldn't hit a cow in the ass with a banjo.

[Yohan]

this game has a 1-0 Orlando win on a sucker punch all over it.

TFC had like what, 5 great scoring chances now?

[molenshtain]

Jesus what was that tackle Higuita just did there? two feet off the ground? should be off.

[notthesun]

Bradley has been excellent defensively. Our offense meanwhile is depressing as fuck.

[mistercorporate]

Brek Shea is competing for the US synchronized diving team.

[mistercorporate]

no way that was a red card...he got up right after. No injury and it was half a foot below his face.

[Jack]

Great.

[StokeciTFC]

Ten man karma coming...

[notthesun]

What the fuck

[Jack]

no way that was a red card...he got up right after. No injury and it was half a foot below his face.
Second yellow.

[Tdot_LFC]

Lack of focus in final 3rd may be costly, especially now down to ten men.

[mistercorporate]

We're pulling a San Jose.

[PAOK17]

Is clearing the ball really that difficult??? We win the ball back only to tap it back to Orlando about 5 times the last 5 min

[Jack]

This game has been so annoying.

[mistercorporate]

If Altidore wanted that goal he should have been there, he looks gassed as hell..

[notthesun]

We need Giovinco back way more badly than I thought we would.

[molenshtain]

yeah, Chapman would help a lot too.

[Tdot_LFC]

Still control our own fate but feel as though two points were lost here. Saying that, it was still a decent performance overall, some wasted chances not withstanding.

[ag futbol]

Well I'll consider myself lucky I just caught the last 3 minutes of that one 😳

[Yohan]

well, there goes the Supporter's Shield.

slowly losing the momentum that MLS teams need in order to make a deep run in the playoffs.

TFC played gassed out by mid 2nd half. didn't help that Ricketts red had them chasing a lot.

and facing DCU that just spanked Columbus 3-0.

[General Woolfe]

A really disappointing performance from the Reds tonight. Our passing was woeful all night and I cant recall a single occasion when we took on an Orlando player one on one and beat them. Altidore and Delgado were just brutal tonight.

What promised to be really promising home stand has been something of a nightmare as we have frittered away points, draw after draw. We probably kissed goodbye to the SS tonight, and most likely will need to win our remaining three games (including a tough visit to Montreal) to finish top of the East. What seems more likely going on recent form is that we''ll finish third.

At one point in the second half of the season I dared dream we just might have a shot at the cup. The ways things have been going we'll be lucky to win a playoff game

[OgtheDim]

Not good enough. Better than against Philly but the finishing on this team is crud.

[General Woolfe]

Seba supposedly failed the fitness test today

Not good news.

(I see the Jays have just blown a lead in the top of the ninth... what is it with Toronto sports teams?)

[Leedsoronto]

I don't get it, we had the advantage of being down to 10 players and we didn't win? Am I missing some the ing here ??

[Detroit_TFC]

This was tough to watch. Speaking personally, this late swoon has taken all the joy out of TFC being top of the conf. At this point, the goal is to get the first round bye. 4 pts of remaining 9 might do it (6 would all but guarantee it) but hard to count on anything on this form.

[Hamilton_Red]

This is shaping up too be a typical TFC style collapse. Not winning a game at home since August 6th. BMO despite the fans best efforts has never been a fortress - opposition team always come here with an expectation of a result. After a glimpse of Altidore's form we are back to showing that we are a one man team.

Not making any improvement or adjustments. Bradley has been shite at dead-balls all season - yet Vanney let's him take every single one that's not a shot. Cooper & Rickets looked pretty ineffective tonight. Bono rode his luck. We could have had a strong run in to the finale - now we are heaping pressure on ourselves and we all know what TFC's like when it really matters.

[Hamilton_Red]

Not good news.

(I see the Jays have just blown a lead in the top of the ninth... what is it with Toronto sports teams?)

Not sure how they can say he will be fit on Saturday of this is the case.

[mistercorporate]

To be fair, I think we were on our way to scoring when we got that red card...took out the momentum and we had to semi-park the bus to handle their offense.

We're doing alright even without Seba, but with a big chunk of our salary back in the lineup next weekend we need to get some 3 point results.

[Auzzy]

As far as I can tell from the replays, there was no contact on Rickett's failed bicycle kick. The Orlando player sold it. (The TFC website highlights show it better than what you can see on the MLS website.) Isn't a 2nd yellow for that a bit harsh?

What happened in the 23rd minute? I'm going to check MLS Live for that. I was worried there might be a red card or something like that against TFC, when they took down an Orlando attacker breaking away near the top of the box. (Not sure if it was Larin or Rivas.)

Too bad, TFC did a pretty good job in shutting down the threats from Kaka, Larin, and others. And they started the game with much more urgency than recently. But TFC's finishing in particular sucked donkey balls.

[Hamilton_Red]

As far as I can tell from the replays, there was no contact on Rickett's failed bicycle kick. The Orlando player sold it. (The TFC website highlights show it better than what you can see on the MLS website.) Isn't a 2nd yellow for that a bit harsh?

What happened in the 23rd minute? I'm going to check MLS Live for that. I was worried there might be a red card or something like that against TFC, when they took down an Orlando attacker breaking away near the top of the box. (Not sure if it was Larin or Rivas.)

Too bad, TFC did a pretty good job in shutting down the threats from Kaka, Larin, and others. And they started the game with much more urgency than recently. But TFC's finishing in particular sucked donkey balls.

Raising the boot that high near someone's head is always dangerous play & bookable IMO. Especially when he wasn't in control and in any danger of hitting the ball. Dumb play IMO.

[OgtheDim]

I think I'm going to call this team The Squanderers.
2 seasons in a row now they've done this.

It's more fun to watch than the USL team we had for so long but this is annoying.



And then I saw videos on Twitter of Syrian refugees who sang and danced all game.

Perspective.

And yes I get the reasons for the United protest in the south.

But then I look at those people dancing all game and think.

"Hey south end people - there's a time for everything. And are things really that awful that a bunch of Syrian refugees make you look and sound like pouting soccer moms? "

Yes I know... it's complicated. But geez Louise compare the issues to those still being faced by those refugees and really how onerous is life for the south in comparison?

[MightyDM]

He's not an elite playmaker in any sense. He plays one through ball every five games. Has very inconsistent vision/decision making.

thats just wrong and grossly unfair. I call BS. You have a hate on for Oso and refuse to accept when he does well. Which is often.

[Hamilton_Red]

Well said Og!

[SoccMan2]

The way D.C. United are playing, this TFC team will be lucky if they get a tie against DC , a DC looks more likely on Saturday, TFC is pulling it's typical end of season crappy form and I can't see this team getting back to form unfortunately.

[OgtheDim]

Yeah I know. It's complicated and I'm going to get told off for the comparison but the comparison was jarring and needs to be acknowledged.

[Auzzy]

I think I'm going to call this team The Squanderers.
2 seasons in a row now they've done this.

It's more fun to watch than the USL team we had for so long but this is annoying.



And then I saw videos on Twitter of Syrian refugees who sang and danced all game.



Most of them were in my section, 226. That where there are usually youth teams, often streaming in & of my aisle to buy food & drinks during the game. Much better atmosphere in that area today.

[MightyDM]

I think I'm going to call this team The Squanderers.
2 seasons in a row now they've done this.

It's more fun to watch than the USL team we had for so long but this is annoying.



And then I saw videos on Twitter of Syrian refugees who sang and danced all game.

Perspective.

And yes I get the reasons for the United protest in the south.

But then I look at those people dancing all game and think.

"Hey south end people - there's a time for everything. And are things really that awful that a bunch of Syrian refugees make you look and sound like pouting soccer moms? "

Yes I know... it's complicated. But geez Louise compare the issues to those still being faced by those refugees and really how onerous is life for the south in comparison?

fantastic. Great post. And if the protest is about the sanctions for the "Montréal vous suquez" affair, stop it. That was wrong and shouldn't have happened in the first place.

[molenshtain]

thats just wrong and grossly unfair. I call BS. You have a hate on for Oso and refuse to accept when he does well. Which is often.

I think he's good at certain things. I still think he was our third best player last year. I gave him credit in the last game for his assist.

But he's just not a guy who can be a primary playmaker. If you look at any of the other top playmakers in the league, he doesn't at all compare when it comes to understanding the pace of the game, off the ball movement, decision making or vision. He can't drive the ball forward and make penetrating passes at anywhere near an elite level. He plays the obvious pass so often it's a surprise when he doesn't. Persisting with him at the 10# spot is hampering our offense mightily.

I like him on the team. I love his passion for us and the city. I think he's a really solid piece of our core. He's just not a guy who can do that job, and putting him in that position is putting him in a position to fail. Chapman is significantly better at the 10# - we have to have him there for the playoffs to have any chance of being successful. We're way too predictable otherwise.

[Joe Kool]

If they can't put away a team like Orlando well....just watched the game....in shock. They won't be able to tie their way into any silverware.

[Hamilton_Red]

Jeez are people still sulking about that little slap on the wrist? I'm sulikng about our abysmal season end collapse. That is worth sulking about.

[SoccMan2]

The feel good story that was TFC this year is basically almost gone with this joke of a home stand they have had dropping all these points so typical TFC, don't have much hope in this team come the playoffs I fear it's going to be another joke of a playoff showing like it was last year versus Montreal, sad.

[molenshtain]

Jeez are people still sulking about that little slap on the wrist? I'm sulikng about our abysmal season end collapse. That is worth sulking about.


Season ending collapse? we're unbeaten since Seba went down and we've lost 1 in 12. We haven't been great the last couple games, should have gotten another win or two, but it's hardly a collapse. Let's see what happens on Saturday. D.C. hasn't put in a performance against us in a long time.

Perspective: Between august 15th to October 3rd last year Portland won twice, drew twice and lost three before getting everyone back healthy and in form just in time to make the playoffs. We know how it went from there. These have been a frustrating last couple of games, but we're still an elite team waiting to get the best player in the league back. We'll be fine. You're still gonna get to go see a couple playoff games this year for the first time in our history.

[BuSaPuNk]

So before people start running a muck with information they know nothing about:

The protest isn't about the banner. It's about the FO making groups sign contracts that there responsible for every person member or not in there sections.

Someone walks into 112 does something stupid like pops a flare the group gets the punishment. Groups are being told to be security and ushers and police there own sections.

Thought they paid people to do that, guess not.

[reggie]

this team is so hard to watch without GIO.. to the wing and cross, it seems that MORROW has become our focal point on offence now.

[backbeat]

and i started a post a few days ago about this protest that got locked - which i apologize for as it seems i made an error mentioning the supporters group name

but the point i was trying to make is to your point - (saying this i am not a member of any supporters group) but i believe the supporters section creates the atmosphere of the stadium - i love it

my point was that shouldn't the supporters section be RUN by the supporters. They have the seats for the whole south end and 'sell' the seasons tickets to folks who want to be a part of, and contribute to, what they're about.

in that way they could also be responsible for their actions.

to me it would make sense and further unify the south end.

just my opinion from a middle of the pitch supporter...

[DinamoTFC]

So before people start running a muck with information they know nothing about:

The protest isn't about the banner. It's about the FO making groups sign contracts that there responsible for every person member or not in there sections.

Someone walks into 112 does something stupid like pops a flare the group gets the punishment. Groups are being told to be security and ushers and police there own sections.

Thought they paid people to do that, guess not.

Yup its brutal. Kinda sad to see us as the only group that chanted early tonight and not in this together.

Atmosphere tonight felt horrible like that one game years back against Houston when the FO put an alcohol ban on the stadium due to unruly supporters.

[BuSaPuNk]

Yup its brutal. Kinda sad to see us as the only group that chanted early tonight and not in this together.

Atmosphere tonight felt horrible like that one game years back against Houston when the FO put an alcohol ban on the stadium due to unruly supporters.

Yep don't know what happened there but now is the time to stand together. Hopefully it was just a communication breakdown.

[Pint]

Hopefully Saturday we can stand together for the team but it will take a large change of heart from the front office.

[DinamoTFC]

Yep don't know what happened there but now is the time to stand together. Hopefully it

https://twitter.com/AmericanCasual1/status/781336656179699712

Wow what nonsense. I would never stand for this. And supposedly this isn't even half of it. Supporters groups are also suppose to now police their own sections and if one joe blow causes a problem in a section then the whole group gets in trouble.

I'm sorry but I agree with the protest and will contribute.

[molenshtain]

https://twitter.com/AmericanCasual1/status/781336656179699712



Very disappointing from Management. I understand It's a complicated issue for both sides,but I thought MLSE was past this level of hardheadedness. This is the same type of issue the south end seems to have been having with management since year 1 RE self policing. I hope both sides come to an amicable solution, because this is bad for everyone.

[molenshtain]

Double post

[Pookie]

Season ending collapse? we're unbeaten since Seba went down and we've lost 1 in 12. We haven't been great the last couple games, should have gotten another win or two, but it's hardly a collapse. Let's see what happens on Saturday. D.C. hasn't put in a performance against us in a long time.

Perspective: Between august 15th to October 3rd last year Portland won twice, drew twice and lost three before getting everyone back healthy and in form just in time to make the playoffs. We know how it went from there. These have been a frustrating last couple of games, but we're still an elite team waiting to get the best player in the league back. We'll be fine. You're still gonna get to go see a couple playoff games this year for the first time in our history.

To add, games are independent events. Win streaks end. Losing streaks end.

Big picture => Game in hand was used to secure first overall in conference that would result in a bye. No one was hurt and the MVP was rested in the process. Win-win in everyone's books as of right now.

[OgtheDim]

Yeah, I get all that on the SG's but I'm sorry...that still does not compare to what those refugees have gone and are still going through. (That and I spent 5 minutes trolling through that twitter owner quoted trying to find the tweet mentioned because the link is dead - I gots me a problem with somebody who trumpets up trophy hunting by SG's)

As I said...perspective.

[TheGoodson]

Can we all get some perspective... We are in first place and we are missing the MVP of the league. That being said we are an average team without Seba. With the exception of LA and maybe Dallas, if you take out the best DP from any of the top teams where would they be? Probably mid table, so lets breathe, hope Seba comes back 100% and we make a strong run into the playoffs with everyone healthy.

On a side note regarding the protest... I wonder how many of the SG bought concessions last night? ie beer.. As IMO when protesting and being silent you hurt the team on the pitch not the people that you want to prove a point to... Hit them where it hurts and that is in their wallet.

[ensco]

TBH, until the red, even though we had more possession/chances, we weren't dominant, and Larin probably had the single best chance of anyone.

Kaka had several moments that were alone worth the price of admission. Man, if he had any support...

It was a beautiful night to be outside and enjoy a game.

[Jack]

Yeah, I get all that on the SG's but I'm sorry...that still does not compare to what those refugees have gone and are still going through. (That and I spent 5 minutes trolling through that twitter owner quoted trying to find the tweet mentioned because the link is dead - I gots me a problem with somebody who trumpets up trophy hunting by SG's)

As I said...perspective.

And there are starving kids in Africa, so I shouldn't complain if I get a hair in my food at a restaurant. And people are dying somewhere else of some terrible disease, so I should suck it up when I have a cold. The refugees have lived through hardship and had a good time at a match. Great story. The supporters have a disagreement with the front office and are trying to make a point. Different story. One has nothing to do with the other.

[CBTFC]

"Hey south end people - there's a time for everything. And are things really that awful that a bunch of Syrian refugees make you look and sound like pouting soccer moms? "

Yes I know... it's complicated. But geez Louise compare the issues to those still being faced by those refugees and really how onerous is life for the south in comparison?

Quoted for truth...just came across as a boy pouting in his room cause he didn't get what he wanted from mommy and daddy.

So I'm pinning this result on the pouting supporters ;)

[Jack]

I don't get all the doom and gloom about our FIRST PLACE TEAM. We have had a slight dip for a few games, but that happens in MLS. I saw some positive signs from Cooper last night in terms of creativity and positive play. Ricketts seems to get crossed up with Altidore and they sometimes run into the same place. It wasn't the best performance for a FIRST PLACE TEAM, but even when we haven't been at our best, we've held onto that top spot and we are still in very good shape for winning the east.

First place Toronto FC.

[Jack]

Quoted for truth...just came across as a boy pouting in his room cause he didn't get what he wanted from mommy and daddy.

So I'm pinning this result on the pouting supporters ;)

Do you know how much time and effort the supporters put into that atmosphere? How much if their lives and their time? And then look at how heavily TFC uses the support to market this team. All the time.

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to mock them.

[TheGoodson]

And there are starving kids in Africa, so I shouldn't complain if I get a hair in my food at a restaurant. And people are dying somewhere else of some terrible disease, so I should suck it up when I have a cold. The refugees have lived through hardship and had a good time at a match. Great story. The supporters have a disagreement with the front office and are trying to make a point. Different story. One has nothing to do with the other.

Agreed... But at the same time, there seems in the past 2 years there always seems to be an issues with a certain SG... So because of some idiots actions, whether it is ripping up seats, throwing shit, stupid banners this is going to be the proverbial hill that all SG go to defend?

When TFC jacked the prices in what ever year it was there was not even half the level of coordination or effectiveness of a protest then of last couple of games... It is sad that there is a need to defend a certain SG that has a history of doing stupid shit period.

[CBTFC]

Well clearly I'm not the only one who feels this way, judging from the comments on this Reddit thread.

https://m.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/550cmy/ultras_montreal_banner_sj_ultras_used_for/

[BelfastBoy]

Vanney didn't look too worried coming off the sideline at the end of the game. For all the talk of a slump its hard to guage because of the MLS playoff format, Vanney knows its a marathon not a sprint. With Giovinco in the lineup this team has the ability to beat anyone in MLS come playoff time - mainly due to solid defending and Giovincos set-piece ability. :megaphone:

[Prof]

We started off so well with lots of pressure and chances but just couldn't finish. I'm not worried. Cooper looked great, exactly what we need in a midfielder; creativity. My only concern is that we are so predictable with Bradley as our QB, teams just settle back and wait for the ball to go through him. This has to change down the stretch.

[C.Ronaldo]

I don't get all the doom and gloom about our FIRST PLACE TEAM. We have had a slight dip for a few games, but that happens in MLS. I saw some positive signs from Cooper last night in terms of creativity and positive play. Ricketts seems to get crossed up with Altidore and they sometimes run into the same place. It wasn't the best performance for a FIRST PLACE TEAM, but even when we haven't been at our best, we've held onto that top spot and we are still in very good shape for winning the east.

First place Toronto FC.

Jozy has never played with Rickets
Cooper has barely played with osario and delgado.
Haglung rarely plays, Bono is the back up.

I say its a decent result in retrospect.

BUT, where was the passion?
Why was Jozy so gassed? He seemed to try to do too much.
why didnt Babouli play after the game he had with Jozy
Why did Bono start this game, why did he hoof the ball 3 or 4 times to no one or out of bounds
And what was up with putting cheyrou in with 5 minutes? What was he hoping to accomplish with that? All the subs were too late, Jozy was gassed from 60 minutes on

Really not sure what Vanney was after in that game

[C.Ronaldo]

TBH, until the red, even though we had more possession/chances, we weren't dominant, and Larin probably had the single best chance of anyone.

Kaka had several moments that were alone worth the price of admission. Man, if he had any support...

It was a beautiful night to be outside and enjoy a game.

he so much bigger in real life than I remember him to be when he played in Italy. Dude is a big boy with quick feet

[Jack]

Well clearly I'm not the only one who feels this way, judging from the comments on this Reddit thread.

https://m.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/550cmy/ultras_montreal_banner_sj_ultras_used_for/
When the FO wants to sanction all people in a section for the actions of unaffiliated members, it's a concern. When the FO wants us to be responsible for things like that offensive banner when their own security didn't check the banner, it's a concern. RPB are committed to cooperating and we have a code of conduct for our members, but we don't have 100% occupancy in our section. If someone does something dumb in our section we get sanctioned? That is not something I can agree with.

Anyway, if you would like more detail on the situation, ask the current group leadership. Mocking supporters groups on a supporters group message board is not cool. I am ok with criticism, but not with mockery. There is a difference and I'm sure you know that.

[ag futbol]

And there are starving kids in Africa, so I shouldn't complain if I get a hair in my food at a restaurant. And people are dying somewhere else of some terrible disease, so I should suck it up when I have a cold. The refugees have lived through hardship and had a good time at a match. Great story. The supporters have a disagreement with the front office and are trying to make a point. Different story. One has nothing to do with the other.
Thank you.

I think this team lacks an elite offensive talent that naturally plays in the midfield. What we have currently is pretty damn inconsistent.

[C.Ronaldo]

When the FO wants to sanction all people in a section for the actions of unaffiliated members, it's a concern. When the FO wants us to be responsible for things like that offensive banner when their own security didn't check the banner, it's a concern. RPB are committed to cooperating and we have a code of conduct for our members, but we don't have 100% occupancy in our section. If someone does something dumb in our section we get sanctioned? That is not something I can agree with.

Anyway, if you would like more detail on the situation, ask the current group leadership. Mocking supporters groups on a supporters group message board is not cool. I am ok with criticism, but not with mockery. There is a difference and I'm sure you know that.

I agreed with the protest but I think some notice like that banner in SJ was needed. Alot of people were confused / bored / or just thought it was the result of a boring game.

[Scotty74]

I thought they did ok in the first half and created a few chances. Ricketts and Altidore didn't combine well up front, too often they were only a couple of feet away from each other and it showed they hadn't played much together before.
Second half was awful, couldn't string 2 passes together and created nothing.
For me it was a second yellow card for Ricketts whether he made contact or not, it's dangerous play, end of.
6 dropped points in last 3 home games isn't how you want to be playing at this time of year, however if anyone had told us that we would be top of the East with 3 games to go we would of taken it!

[Cas87]

I thought they did ok in the first half and created a few chances. Ricketts and Altidore didn't combine well up front, too often they were only a couple of feet away from each other and it showed they hadn't played much together before.
Second half was awful, couldn't string 2 passes together and created nothing.
For me it was a second yellow card for Ricketts whether he made contact or not, it's dangerous play, end of.
6 dropped points in last 3 home games isn't how you want to be playing at this time of year, however if anyone had told us that we would be top of the East with 3 games to go we would of taken it!

Agree with this take 100%.

In the microcosm of last nights game ... mediocre performance.

In the larger scheme of things specific to the home stand thus far ... good instances of play, but disappointing end results.

And in the largest view of the entire season ... HOLY MACKIAW! (To borrow a phrase from a Toronto sports broadcaster) we are first in the East! :scarf:

[Joe Kool]

Almost had a second Will Johnson wonder strike....that would have been something. Morrow's new zest for offensive production was fun to watch all game long. Altidore looked gassed around the 70th minute and Ricketts getting the second yellow leaving Jozy up front on his own when he was gassed kind of solidified that we would basically be going for the 0-0 tie. Too bad. Game had potential. On to DC game on Saturday.

[Cambassador]

A game we seemed to lose 2 points on but I can't help but feel like the team knows they are an elite team and needs momentum to wreck havoc again. I appreciated the stats about Portland last year, we are scorned Toronto supporters, I understand why it is so easy to lose hope.

This team needs its supporters to get behind them and urge them forward, heroes will come from unlikely sources (huge saves from Bono last night are ignored, 22 yr old is playing fantastic); we need to dig in and enjoy top of the East and another season with play offs.

Criticism can come end of the year with how we finish; then we look to build.

[Carter]

This team needs its supporters to get behind them and urge them forward, heroes will come from unlikely sources (huge saves from Bono last night are ignored, 22 yr old is playing fantastic); we need to dig in and enjoy top of the East and another season with play offs.


Not too sure if you watched the same game I did last night, Bono gaped yesterday. He almost conceded 2 goals, on simple mistakes, like rushing Kaka outside of the box and missing the clearance for one... Some of his outings have been fantastic, for sure, but he has made some 22 yr old mistakes. He still has a lot to learn and grow, wouldn't give him a "hero" title yet....

[TFC Tifoso]

And there are starving kids in Africa, so I shouldn't complain if I get a hair in my food at a restaurant. And people are dying somewhere else of some terrible disease, so I should suck it up when I have a cold. The refugees have lived through hardship and had a good time at a match. Great story. The supporters have a disagreement with the front office and are trying to make a point. Different story. One has nothing to do with the other.


Do you know how much time and effort the supporters put into that atmosphere? How much if their lives and their time? And then look at how heavily TFC uses the support to market this team. All the time.

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to mock them.

pretty good posts....well said Jack.....of course someone, somewhere is going to have it worse than we do here.....I don't get how that means we can't be upset about things in our lives that affect us....

unfortunate to not get the win yesterday, but top of the East is a-ok for me.....

[Red4ever]

I just wanted to sidebar from the whole what-have-you to say that specifically in the first half, our drumming has never been better. Going hard and then backing off to let the claps came through at the top really well.

Cheers to Renda (I think). Just perfect pacing.

[Ultra & Proud]

And there are starving kids in Africa, so I shouldn't complain if I get a hair in my food at a restaurant. And people are dying somewhere else of some terrible disease, so I should suck it up when I have a cold. The refugees have lived through hardship and had a good time at a match. Great story. The supporters have a disagreement with the front office and are trying to make a point. Different story. One has nothing to do with the other.
I agree with this. I reject the notion that I have to temper all facets of my life because other people have it worse. What kind of society has this become that this is a mindset. It's off topic sure, but let's get real. This is our world and things like what's going on with the team and supporters matter to a lot of us and to dismiss or mock the feelings of those people based on a certain perspective is something I am not willing to entertain.

[Canary10]

I think 2 wins out of the next 3 will get first in the east. So just winning our two home games should be enough, although that's obviously been a problem lately. If Giovinco comes back, we should probably be ok. In terms of our hopes for the cup, I think we need to finish ahead of LA. They are really tough at home. The rest are somewhat beatable (except maybe Colorado but I really don't think Colorado makes a run for some reason). If we can finish first in the east and say third overall I think we're in a good position. The good news is we have that in our hands without having to rely on other teams.

[jazzy]

Vanney and team confused by quiet in stadium , said they thrive on the cheering . Nice to see the team we supposedly support is caught in the middle of the SG ego check . Remember probably many of the players don't like their Mgmt also . We want cheap seats , control of who sits where , but zero responsibility . Tail wagging dog . Many in the crowd felt this was a chance for RPB to nonpolitical and simply cheer and be true team supporters . Apparently not . We failed to establish our independence as a group with more rational accommodating values , by putting the team first . I didn't stay in this group to be led by another groups self imposed problems . Where was the question raised ? The main thread was maddenly closed . A major reputation hit to ALL. SG's happened yesterday . The one I belong to , let me down .

[OgtheDim]

And there are starving kids in Africa.................

Yes, I know. As I said, its complicated. I just found the juxtaposition of the two approaches to involvement in the game stark in its contrast.

Regardless, I'm done with this. Pax and here's to a resolution.

[Pint]

Banned and team confused by quiet in stadium , said they thrive on the cheering . Nice to see the team we supposedly support is caught in the middle of the SG ego check . Remember probably many of the players don't like their Mgmt also . We want cheap seats , control of who sits where , but zero responsibility . Tail wagging dog . Many in the crowd felt this was a chance for ROB to be nonpolital and simply cheer and be true team supporters . Apparently not . We failed to establish our independence as a group with more rational accommodating values by putting the team first . I didn't stay in this group to be led by another groups self imposed problems . Where was the question raised ? The main thread was maddenly closed . A major reputation hit to ALL. SG's happened yesterday . The one I belong to , let me down .

sorry just to clarify its not 0 responsibility it's that groups only want to be responsible for group members to an extent, we are still not security. Groups don't want to be responsible for bob the tourist who gets overserved and starts a fight.

[Bluenose13]

Banned and team confused by quiet in stadium , said they thrive on the cheering . Nice to see the team we supposedly support is caught in the middle of the SG ego check . Remember probably many of the players don't like their Mgmt also . We want cheap seats , control of who sits where , but zero responsibility . Tail wagging dog . Many in the crowd felt this was a chance for ROB to be nonpolital and simply cheer and be true team supporters . Apparently not . We failed to establish our independence as a group with more rational accommodating values by putting the team first . I didn't stay in this group to be led by another groups self imposed problems . Where was the question raised ? The main thread was maddenly closed . A major reputation hit to ALL. SG's happened yesterday . The one I belong to , let me down .I get your frustration as a supporter of the team but what happened to Ineebs has long term implications for all groups and it's wrong.

I am glad we showed unity and I would like to believe they would do the same for us.

Timing of all of this couldn't be worse but the SG's didn't pick the time.

The front office needs to back off these silly demands and open up constructive dialogue to get past this.

[trane]

When the FO wants to sanction all people in a section for the actions of unaffiliated members, it's a concern. When the FO wants us to be responsible for things like that offensive banner when their own security didn't check the banner, it's a concern. RPB are committed to cooperating and we have a code of conduct for our members, but we don't have 100% occupancy in our section. If someone does something dumb in our section we get sanctioned? That is not something I can agree with.

Anyway, if you would like more detail on the situation, ask the current group leadership. Mocking supporters groups on a supporters group message board is not cool. I am ok with criticism, but not with mockery. There is a difference and I'm sure you know that.

This was one of my issues when I was still a member, the section should be RPB only, or at least a clear portion of the section should be RPB only, and the tickets should be available only through the RPB. We had members forced to sit all over the stadium while 112 was filled with non RPB there for the party.

[MartinUtd]

This was one of my issues when I was still a member, the section should be RPB only, or at least a clear portion of the section should be RPB only, and the tickets should be available only through the RPB. We had members forced to sit all over the stadium while 112 was filled with non RPB there for the party.

Problem is MLSE doesn't have the balls to relocate non-members

[ryan]

Problem is MLSE doesn't have the balls to relocate non-members

Wouldn't want to push out the scalpers and stop them from getting max profit!

[Canary10]

What's the status of actually working this out?

[Ultra & Proud]

Problem is MLSE doesn't have the balls to relocate non-members
In my opinion there are only two logical courses in regards to the FO's request;

1) They drop the whole idea and return to the old days level of security (ie. check tickets of everyone before entry).

2) Grow the balls to move non-members out or allow them a chance to "officially" join and register in whichever group and then implement the policing policy. And if this was the choice and I was responsible, I'd want option #1 invoked as well to avoid some jackass sneaking in at half time and screwing it up for whichever SG he chose to migrate to.

Otherwise holding a group responsible for a whole section when their actual numbers may equal less than half that section is absurd.

[Pint]

What's the status of actually working this out?

Depends on if the front office want to work this out or if they want to wait it out.

[Canary10]

Depends on if the front office want to work this out or if they want to wait it out.

That's what I mean. So are they waiting it out? Are any discussions happening?

[Scotty74]

Not too sure if you watched the same game I did last night, Bono gaped yesterday. He almost conceded 2 goals, on simple mistakes, like rushing Kaka outside of the box and missing the clearance for one... Some of his outings have been fantastic, for sure, but he has made some 22 yr old mistakes. He still has a lot to learn and grow, wouldn't give him a "hero" title yet....

Does anyone know why Irwin was dropped again after a good performance on Saturday? He's the number 1, stick with him. Bono did well when he stepped in but Irwin instills far more confidence in me than Bono does right now

[trane]

I think that I have not been a official member of the RPB for several/many years now, and we have been having this discussion since then.

[Carter]

Does anyone know why Irwin was dropped again after a good performance on Saturday? He's the number 1, stick with him. Bono did well when he stepped in but Irwin instills far more confidence in me than Bono does right now
Vanney said in an interview, that he was only going to be starting in 1 of the 2 matches... Philly or Orlando.

Expect him to be back on Saturday v DC

[Cambassador]

Not too sure if you watched the same game I did last night, Bono gaped yesterday. He almost conceded 2 goals, on simple mistakes, like rushing Kaka outside of the box and missing the clearance for one... Some of his outings have been fantastic, for sure, but he has made some 22 yr old mistakes. He still has a lot to learn and grow, wouldn't give him a "hero" title yet....

Watched the whole game, totally agree the scuffed kick put my heart in my throat.

Losing our all-star keeper when we did and what it would have done to our season with GKs of the past and not how Bono has performed (whole team did amazing throughout) would have changed everyone's conversation come first week of October. Bono's first match vs. Orlando had me calling off hopes of play offs; last night's performance shows yes he is young and mistakes are still to come but it also showed he can maintain an organized back line and put us in with a chance to win every game. I can't ask much more of a player who will only improve with age.

I am excited to see our TFC "heroes" put their stamp on the last few games of the season and get Lakeshore rocking.

[Jeff s]

So the protest, if we see something and report it, we don't get punished? or will we get punished for not preventing the incident in the first place?

[DinamoTFC]

Vanney and team confused by quiet in stadium , said they thrive on the cheering . Nice to see the team we supposedly support is caught in the middle of the SG ego check . Remember probably many of the players don't like their Mgmt also . We want cheap seats , control of who sits where , but zero responsibility . Tail wagging dog . Many in the crowd felt this was a chance for RPB to nonpolitical and simply cheer and be true team supporters . Apparently not . We failed to establish our independence as a group with more rational accommodating values , by putting the team first . I didn't stay in this group to be led by another groups self imposed problems . Where was the question raised ? The main thread was maddenly closed . A major reputation hit to ALL. SG's happened yesterday . The one I belong to , let me down .

Funny cause they made me absolutely proud. United as one should be the theme in the south.
If you saw the document MLSE is forcing upon the supporters group you would think differently.
The new rules they implement will have terrible consequences in the future.

And not to forget, yesterdays atmosphere was probably the worst all season. The game was so dull and boring. The groups will get their message across, dont worry. MLSE have no problem using the groups for their marketing purposes only to treat them like children when something comes up.

[trane]

So the protest, if we see something and report it, we don't get punished? or will we get punished for not preventing the incident in the first place?

How can the RPB prevent the incident if it was done by non-RPBs ???

[Ultra & Proud]

Funny cause they made me absolutely proud. United as one should be the theme in the south.
If you saw the document MLSE is forcing upon the supporters group you would think differently.
The new rules they implement will have terrible consequences in the future.

And not to forget, yesterdays atmosphere was probably the worst all season. The game was so dull and boring. The groups will get their message across, dont worry. MLSE have no problem using the groups for their marketing purposes only to treat them like children when something comes up.

Hard to believe all this came from a stupid two stick.

[Jeff s]

How can the RPB prevent the incident if it was done by non-RPBs ???

Will i mean, things like if a rpb throws an object on the field, or maybe drinks a little to much and picks a fight. And ya, i can see a rpb bringing in a banner without notifying others. Will the group be in trouble if we didn't stop it in time? Or will mlse not care as long as we report the incident to security and cooperate with them?

[Redcoe15]

Bottom line: we need Seba back in the lineup, eh-SAP!!!

[BuSaPuNk]

Will i mean, things like if a rpb throws an object on the field, or maybe drinks a little to much and picks a fight. And ya, i can see a rpb bringing in a banner without notifying others. Will the group be in trouble if we didn't stop it in time? Or will mlse not care as long as we report the incident to security and cooperate with them?

They can go after the individual as well as the group. It's fluid.
This last banner that started all of this was a non member that came forward but the FO stuck the ban on the group not the individual.

So MLS rules ya.

[Jeff s]

They can go after the individual as well as the group. It's fluid.
This last banner that started all of this was a non member that came forward but the FO stuck the ban on the group not the individual.

So MLS rules ya.

Well, i mean, Kurt just posted this in his article.


"But a well-placed source in the position to know told the Toronto Sun this week that BMO Field’s enhanced security cameras caught two fans holding the banner at separate moments — one of which was donning an Inebriatti shirt."


If true, then I kinda have a hard time siding with them. On top of that, I see these excuses on a regular basis. Its not often these things happen, but when somebody does something stupid in our section, the main response is "well he's not with us" despite seeing these people at every freaking game. How do you go about proving who's a member. So convenient that the non members always find a way to do this huh?


I agree security should be blamed as well. But as soon as the second guy grabbed hold of that banner, its hard to take their word and hard to say they weren't involved. Once he the member grabbed it, they became involved. Thats it. Owe up the mistake and take the punishment.



The same should be said in our section. People threw beer during the montreal game ( regular people I see often ), but no one stopped them, no one bothered having a talk to them. I eventually had to talk to one of them, and pointed them out. But what did I get? some guy calling me, and some people from 111 "a rat".

[MightyDM]

TBH, until the red, even though we had more possession/chances, we weren't dominant, and Larin probably had the single best chance of anyone.

Kaka had several moments that were alone worth the price of admission. Man, if he had any support...

It was a beautiful night to be outside and enjoy a game.

it was a fantastic night to be a TFC supporter, even with the result. They left in first, looked good for 30 mins, didn't collapse, and we got to yell at the Ref. And the weather was perfect.

[MightyDM]

When the FO wants to sanction all people in a section for the actions of unaffiliated members, it's a concern. When the FO wants us to be responsible for things like that offensive banner when their own security didn't check the banner, it's a concern. RPB are committed to cooperating and we have a code of conduct for our members, but we don't have 100% occupancy in our section. If someone does something dumb in our section we get sanctioned? That is not something I can agree with.

Anyway, if you would like more detail on the situation, ask the current group leadership. Mocking supporters groups on a supporters group message board is not cool. I am ok with criticism, but not with mockery. There is a difference and I'm sure you know that.

We shouldn't be supporting the other group on this. Sorry, but what happened was fundamentally wrong. It is all too easy to say " prove he was one of us". We ( RPB ) are condoning that banner, indirectly, and we shouldn't be.

[MightyDM]

I agree with this. I reject the notion that I have to temper all facets of my life because other people have it worse. What kind of society has this become that this is a mindset. It's off topic sure, but let's get real. This is our world and things like what's going on with the team and supporters matter to a lot of us and to dismiss or mock the feelings of those people based on a certain perspective is something I am not willing to entertain.

the Syrians were at the stadium cheering their brains out for TFC while the Supporters Groups sat on their hands like babies. His comparison is fair and appropriate.

[Hamilton_Red]

he so much bigger in real life than I remember him to be when he played in Italy. Dude is a big boy with quick feet


He wasn't a "big boy" when he became a Galicticos..his best days were at Milan - IMO he lost world class status fairly quickly with RM.

[StokeciTFC]

the Syrians were at the stadium cheering their brains out for TFC while the Supporters Groups sat on their hands like babies. His comparison is fair and appropriate.

Absolutely. The Syrians made the supposed SGs look like petulant children on this occasion and the SGs only contributed to that perception felt by many around the ground. "Toronto 'till I die!" we hear them cry, but that seemingly doesn't translate onto actions. "Toronto 'till we take offence at the FO actions" seems much more appropriate.

Take a full read of Larson's take on the issue:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/29/tfc-supporters-group-inebriatti-hurting-team-with-antics

Couldn't nearly have said it anywhere nearly as well myself.

You are important to the team. Support them or accept your part in the failure of this most promising of seasons should it come to that.

[Jack]

We shouldn't be supporting the other group on this. Sorry, but what happened was fundamentally wrong. It is all too easy to say " prove he was one of us". We ( RPB ) are condoning that banner, indirectly, and we shouldn't be.
There is more to it than just that banner. And the FO and security are just as responsible for that banner getting in as a supporters group. They are supposed to check and approve all large banners at the gate. We are not condoning the banner, we are opposing unfair measures and policies from the FO.


the Syrians were at the stadium cheering their brains out for TFC while the Supporters Groups sat on their hands like babies. His comparison is fair and appropriate.
Babies? I take a dim view of you insulting supporters on our message board. And if you are a member of RPB, you are also part of this. Do you know the history of our relations with the team? How about you ask some questions of group leadership and get informed before throwing out insults?

The rules they are trying to get us to accept are wrong. The guy who held up the banner is ultimately responsible, but how did he get it in? Where is the FO mea culpa on that one? Why is this one being put fully on supporters?

Absolutely. The Syrians made the supposed SGs look like petulant children on this occasion and the SGs only contributed to that perception felt by many around the ground. "Toronto 'till I die!" we hear them cry, but that seemingly doesn't translate onto actions. "Toronto 'till we take offence at the FO actions" seems much more appropriate.

Take a full read of Larson's take on the issue:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/29/tfc-supporters-group-inebriatti-hurting-team-with-antics

Couldn't nearly have said it anywhere nearly as well myself.

You are important to the team. Support them or accept your part in the failure of this most promising of seasons should it come to that.
Larson has had an ex to grind with Inebriatti for years. I take what he writes about them with a grain of salt.

The Syrians have nothing to do with the relationship between the supporters and the office. The front office is responsible for what's happening right now. Their security failed and now they're trying to pin their failing on supporters, all of whom have condemned the banner. Yes, the banner was wrong and the guy who held it up, repeatedly, on many occasions during the match was wrong. Why was he not caught by security and game ops staff?

Anyway, we need to focus on supporting the team together, not tearing down or insulting other supporters. I don't always agree with Inebriatti's actions, in fact, I was quite pissed about the sanctions our support received for Montreal away, allegedly due to actions by some of them. But in this case, the FO/security messdd up by not snagging the guys and the banner and now they're trying to cover their embarrassment with sanctions and draconian rules. I don't think that's right.

[Jack]

And as for policing our section, don't they pay people for that? Don't I pay for a ticket to be in the stadium? Now I have to work while I'm supporting the team?

[brad]

This is interesting, in a sad way.

When the team was succeeding off the pitch in years 2 & 3, the FO had a massive crackdown on people trying to support the team. They envisoned a Leafs style stadium where it was filled with high value tickets. When support started waning, they backed down.

Now that the team is winning and drawing, I certainly hope they aren't going back to that idea.

Out of curiosity - I thought the RPB policy was support during the match and leave protests for other times (if at all). Has that changed?

[Richard]

Punish the individual not the group unless explicitly condoned by the supporter group.

Its securities job to police the crowd.

What back asswards planet do MLSE live on.

Having said that I think considering where this team is at it would have probably been a good idea to delay the protest for some other game.

[jazzy]

We shouldn't be supporting the other group on this. Sorry, but what happened was fundamentally wrong. It is all too easy to say " prove he was one of us". We ( RPB ) are condoning that banner, indirectly, and we shouldn't be.


the Syrians were at the stadium cheering their brains out for TFC while the Supporters Groups sat on their hands like babies. His comparison is fair and appropriate.

simply and fairly put . I stand by this . We let the team down AND they know it .

[jazzy]

Absolutely. The Syrians made the supposed SGs look like petulant children on this occasion and the SGs only contributed to that perception felt by many around the ground. "Toronto 'till I die!" we hear them cry, but that seemingly doesn't translate onto actions. "Toronto 'till we take offence at the FO actions" seems much more appropriate.

Take a full read of Larson's take on the issue:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/29/tfc-supporters-group-inebriatti-hurting-team-with-antics

Couldn't nearly have said it anywhere nearly as well myself.

You are important to the team. Support them or accept your part in the failure of this most promising of seasons should it come to that.

well said .

[Jeff s]

And as for policing our section, don't they pay people for that? Don't I pay for a ticket to be in the stadium? Now I have to work while I'm supporting the team?

Least you can do is contact security if you do see something. No one is telling you to confront them. These instances are so few and far between to begin with, the least you can do is report it when it does happen.



The security that did allow the banner need to be punished for doing a very poor job. Without a doubt they didn't check the banner, and apparently did nothing but watch them display it. Ridiculous. But inebriatti deserves some blame here too. They saw the banner, several times. No one said anything. And if reports are true, it was even passed around. So how are they not guilty as a group? They allowed it to happen.

[denime]

we had protests before and we'll have them in future too, if necessary of course.

Many people in the past and even now are talking about southend unison, right?

Well , for the first 24 minutes of last game south was in unison probably first time ever, we did it for 24 other 2 groups showed support to innebriatti a bit longer, nothing wrong with that.

For once we actully acted as SG and all you can read here is bitch,moan,complain, not the mention non memebrs calling rpb for action taken in the stands.


FO is at fault as well as ineebs, they want SGs to sign self policing letter ,in sections where sgs dont have control,that what is protest was all about. They don't want to sign that and im sure other sgs will decline it too.

As far players noticed we were silent, give me a break, if our noise makes the differnce how the fu*k tfc did not win mls cup until now,god nows we were very loud in the past 10 years,Seattle should win it every year,afterall they have most fans per game and the loudest fans too?


What we did was right,if we didint we would look like biggest hypocrites ,always talking about unision and then be only sg not participating,we did it for 24 and then we were ba k what we do best, sing and chant.

:rant:

[backbeat]

the SGs make the atmosphere - i mean i love simply watching my team - but the atmosphere by the SGs takes it to another level

this year the SGs have been even tighter - fantastic

i hope this 'situation' brings them even tighter together - and resolved with the FO ultimately as well

but i really believe the south end should be managed by the SGs - ticket sales et al and sundry - following the rules set out by mls/mlse/the stadium, yes - but the SGs responsible for their groups and having the authority to determine who sits there

the atmosphere would become stratospheric imho....

[Auzzy]

Least you can do is contact security if you do see something. No one is telling you to confront them. These instances are so few and far between to begin with, the least you can do is report it when it does happen.

The security that did allow the banner need to be punished for doing a very poor job. Without a doubt they didn't check the banner, and apparently did nothing but watch them display it. Ridiculous. But inebriatti deserves some blame here too. They saw the banner, several times. No one said anything. And if reports are true, it was even passed around. So how are they not guilty as a group? They allowed it to happen.

What do you know about what Jack and other supporters are being told to do? Did you ask him? Did you see the documents in question?

I don't have a set opinion about what should happen here. It's a very tricky question. However that Larsun article was a real missed opportunity. Did he not reach out to representatives of any supporters group to try to get their comments & see the full picture? I don't see any mention of that in the article. Normally considered good form in journalism. Just spoke with Vanney, and some unnamed yet apparently totally authoritative source from the team? Does Larson know about the contents of the document that groups are being asked to sign? Wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least mention that in the article, and also to ask Vanney what he thought about the actions of his FO?

Anyway, the article will stir up some controversy, it will garner some hits, mission accomplished. It will get some people tut-tutting about those crazy sawker fans. Maybe this topic will even make it into some of those mainstream sports shows and talk shows that Kurt feels should be taking TFC more seriously. (Of course they won't take TFC seriously when they mention this, but we'll get some eye rolls out of it.)

Kurt writes some very interesting stuff from time to time, but that article reminds me why I don't read the Sun.

[Auzzy]

This article provides a bit more perspective, from all sides: https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/09/29/supporters-in-a-silent-battle-with-toronto-fc.html

BTW specifically concerning two-sticks: they're much easier to see from the bottom of the stands, where the security is, than from within the supporters section. When I'm in there, I'm looking at the field or the capo, not turning around to look at two-sticks. And the capos are already pretty busy. I'm really surprised that security or other game-day staff didn't see the offensive sign earlier, apparently it was up for quite some time.

[paul-collins]

However that Larsun article was a real missed opportunity. Did he not reach out to representatives of any supporters group to try to get their comments & see the full picture? I don't see any mention of that in the article.

From the article: "..Inebriatti, which didn’t immediately respond to the Sun’s request for comment..."

[Auzzy]

From the article: "..Inebriatti, which didn’t immediately respond to the Sun’s request for comment..."

OK sorry, I missed that. I wonder what "immediately" means. Laura Armstrong was able to get responses from a couple of groups.

[Jeff s]

The capo himself is looking at the crowd most of the time, so are 2 or 3 other guys beside him. That's not a good excuse imo.



Like what Paul Collins said, hard to get inebriatti interview if they constantly talk shit to him. Just go look at kurts Twitter page and see the things that are said to him by the group. They have no interest talking to him



And no, I don't fully know everything that was said by mlse to the groups, ( although didn't someone post a picture of mlse statement? But didn't bother to show the rest of the statement) but this quote "That code includes a clause which says the club can deem a supporters group responsible for an incident if the act occurs in their seating area and no individual or group is identified as responsible" I mean, am I missing something here? Someone does something really stupid, you report him. That's all. If someone throws something on the field, or holds up an offensive banner, you're gonna tell me people won't see this happening? I honestly think it's more of a case of way too many people looking after one another, not willing to report their friends stupidity and always looking at the " he's not with us" excuse.

[Auzzy]

I dunno, there are people paid to stand & look up at the crowd, especially in the south end. I know they can't catch everything, but they should be able to see a pretty large sign pointing down at them. (You can't catch everything at the gates, especially because a banner or two-stick could easily be passed through the fence somewhere else, away from any of the gates.)

I don't have a strong opinion about this, at least in public. I don't want to defend or attack any group. I just think there's a couple of angles to look at in this issue.

[chbu12]

I always thought the big elephant in the room that is the south stand, is that one day, be it years from now, come safe standing and general admission, we will all have to stand together, next to one another, with one capo stand, one set of drummers, singing one song. The alternative to this vision is much less attractive.

Some days, this hypothetical unity seems... impossible.

However, there have been moments this season, including yesterday, where the impossible looked... well, less impossible. I shouldn't speak for Inebriatti, but the point of this post is to extend a personal thanks to all of you who support us in words and gesture. Thank you. To those who don't, fair play too.

The Sun article - the man needs to sell his story, and to this end he begins by creating an antagonist. Again, fair play. I don't wish to debate it other than to urge the reader's cynicism of some of the author's implications and statements.

[DinamoTFC]

I always thought the big elephant in the room that is the south stand, is that one day, be it years from now, come safe standing and general admission, we will all have to stand together, next to one another, with one capo stand, one set of drummers, singing one song. The alternative to this vision is much less attractive...

Amen.

I am with you and the other supporter groups. We're in this together. To a unified south end.

[Pint]

OK sorry, I missed that. I wonder what "immediately" means. Laura Armstrong was able to get responses from a couple of groups.

I cooperated with Laura Armstrong as I respect her as a reporter. I would not have responded to larson. He knows he is loathed by most SG leadership

[CBTFC]

It was a very police union/brotherhood type stance to take...which as a PR move, backfired.

Sorry guys, but standing in unity with another SG that did something so obviously wrong...

[Red4ever]

If it turns after all this that inebs were involved in the two stick, thats not cool.

[Jack]

If it turns after all this that inebs were involved in the two stick, thats not cool.
Even if they were, the fact that the FO is hammering down with these new rules about groups being responsible for any actions in their section if their security fails to catch someone is BS. I don't go to a match to police other supporters, I go to support the team. Don't they pay a bunch of people to watch the south end? Never mind the fact that their security let the banner in, so they carry part of the blame for it going on display. The banner was bad and the guy responsible should be sanctioned, but so should the team accept its part in this and not try to use this as a catalyst to impose draconian measures on sections where they have happily sold seats to scalpers and others who aren't affiliated with any group.

[OgtheDim]

From the article: "..Inebriatti, which didn’t immediately respond to the Sun’s request for comment..."

Larson is conspicuously and knowingly not discussing the larger issue underneath this:

Armstrong did it better.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/09/29/supporters-in-a-silent-battle-with-toronto-fc.html

[OgtheDim]

It was a very police union/brotherhood type stance to take...which as a PR move, backfired.

Sorry guys, but standing in unity with another SG that did something so obviously wrong...

Read the Star article.

This is not about that two stick.

[KurtLarSUN]

Larson is conspicuously and knowingly not discussing the larger issue underneath this:

Armstrong did it better.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/09/29/supporters-in-a-silent-battle-with-toronto-fc.html

The "two-stick" is the issue. It's what started all of this. And Inebriatti haven't been honest in addressing it.
The "contract" doesn't bother me one bit. Either you have a supporters group/section, or you don't.
If you have one, then everyone is accountable to one another, and a single supporter's actions can impact the group.
This BS about "what if a stranger comes in and sabotages our section?" is just silly.
Hold each other accountable. Realize you're part of a larger group and that your actions impact those around you.
My piece in today's Sun was more about how Inebriatti aren't victims in all of this. They've been part of the problem.
My view on the contract is that it's pretty standard in terms of how supporters groups operate within the league.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/29/tfc-supporters-group-inebriatti-hurting-team-with-antics

[Red CB Toronto]

Kurt, love that you wrote this piece and called them out. Their antics need to stop, dating back to last season in Montreal and then defying the actions taken against them. The just simply do not get it.



The "two-stick" is the issue. It's what started all of this. And Inebriatti haven't been honest in addressing it.
The "contract" doesn't bother me one bit. Either you have a supporters group/section, or you don't.
If you have one, then everyone is accountable to one another, and single supporter's actions impacts the group.
This BS about "what if a stranger comes in and sabotages our section?" is just silly.
Hold each other accountable. Realize you're part of a larger group and that your actions impact those around you.
My piece in today's Sun was more about how Inebriatti aren't victims in all of this. They've been part of the problem.
My view on the contract is that it's pretty standard in terms of how supporters groups operate within the league.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/29/tfc-supporters-group-inebriatti-hurting-team-with-antics

[KurtLarSUN]

Even if they were, the fact that the FO is hammering down with these new rules about groups being responsible for any actions in their section if their security fails to catch someone is BS. I don't go to a match to police other supporters, I go to support the team. Don't they pay a bunch of people to watch the south end? Never mind the fact that their security let the banner in, so they carry part of the blame for it going on display. The banner was bad and the guy responsible should be sanctioned, but so should the team accept its part in this and not try to use this as a catalyst to impose draconian measures on sections where they have happily sold seats to scalpers and others who aren't affiliated with any group.

Any examples of SGs being punished after a non member did something in the section?
Because, if you read today's Sun, that's certainly not the case in this instance...

[KurtLarSUN]

Kurt, love that you wrote this piece and called them out. Their antics need to stop, dating back to last season in Montreal and then defying the actions taken against them. The just simply do not get it.

I've received many notes like this...

It's funny how they always seem to point the finger somewhere else in every instance.

As my source told me. "There's a lot of smoke with these guys..."

[Red CB Toronto]

I've received many notes like this...

It's funny how they always seem to point the finger somewhere else in every instance.

As my source told me. "There's a lot of smoke with these guys..."

Well considering their tag line is "No Pyro No Party", that says it all. If you look back at TFC supporter history, a previous group North End Elite that disbanded, took on a somewhat Ultra approach too, got the ire of the front office and eventually former TFC executive Paul Beirne just chose to stop engaging them. Over time they just disappeared. Guess when they lost their seat at the big boy table, they simply lost interest.

[CBTFC]

Thank you for telling it how it is Kurt.

It's sad that some can't accept and handle the truth, and just want to point fingers in every other direction.

[KurtLarSUN]

Thank you for telling it how it is Kurt.

It's sad that some can't accept and handle the truth, and just want to point fingers in every other direction.

One of the big problems I see here is that supporters groups want all the privileges that come with belonging to a group.
But when it comes to overseeing the content in their sections, they want to turn a blind eye. I struggle to comprehend that logic.

[KurtLarSUN]

One more thing...

I find the contract a bit silly. But I don't disagree with the language. I'm just not sure why TFC needs a signed document to enforce said rules.
I think it was originally conjured up to basically set boundaries with supporters. Not to threaten them.

[Red4ever]

One of the big problems I see here is that supporters groups want all the privileges that come with belonging to a group.
But when it comes to overseeing the content in their sections, they want to turn a blind eye. I struggle to comprehend that logic.

Would you agree the club should do what they can to consolodate sections to include only supporters? I would have fewer problems (ie none) if that were the case.

When changing direction after the fact it seems like a necessay component no?

[Pint]

The responsibility has and should fall mostly on the individual, if that individual is part of a group then yes we do and have taken some of the responsibility for those actions. Having some punishment for a group based off of 1 members actions can dissuade certain types of behavior, we get that. What we won't take responsibility for is overserved tourist 15 rows above us ripping out seats or starting a fight. That person has no reason to listen to us even if we somehow glance up and see something taking place, that's security's job.

[BuSaPuNk]

The "two-stick" is the issue. It's what started all of this. And Inebriatti haven't been honest in addressing it.
The "contract" doesn't bother me one bit. Either you have a supporters group/section, or you don't.
If you have one, then everyone is accountable to one another, and a single supporter's actions can impact the group.
This BS about "what if a stranger comes in and sabotages our section?" is just silly.
Hold each other accountable. Realize you're part of a larger group and that your actions impact those around you.
My piece in today's Sun was more about how Inebriatti aren't victims in all of this. They've been part of the problem.
My view on the contract is that it's pretty standard in terms of how supporters groups operate within the league.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/29/tfc-supporters-group-inebriatti-hurting-team-with-antics

You do realize that groups don't control the whole section right?
You realize that they don't control every single ticket and SSH in there section as members right?

Whatever as far as I'm concerned the FO and especially Manning can't fuck right off.
I'm out.
I can't knowingly hand over money to a club that treats its paying supporters/fans like this.

[KurtLarSUN]

Would you agree the club should do what they can to consolodate sections to include only supporters? I would have fewer problems (ie none) if that were the case.

When changing direction after the fact it seems like a necessay component no?

I don't see why this needs to be part of the conversation.

[KurtLarSUN]

You do realize that groups don't control the whole section right?
You realize that they don't control every single ticket and SSH in there section as members right?

Whatever as far as I'm concerned the FO and especially Manning can't fuck right off.
I'm out.
I can't knowingly hand over money to a club that treats its paying supporters/fans like this.

They're not being asked to control random season ticket holders. They're being asked to hold each other accountable.
Let's not forget ... All of this came about because an Inebriatti member was caught holding a disgusting sign. What's the solution, do nothing?

[ryan]

Well, i mean, Kurt just posted this in his article.


"But a well-placed source in the position to know told the Toronto Sun this week that BMO Field’s enhanced security cameras caught two fans holding the banner at separate moments — one of which was donning an inebriatti shirt

Correct me if I'm wrong but he's the only one writing such stuff. I personally find it very hard to believe that an external journalist would be given access to view MLSE internal security footage. Very skeptical.

[KurtLarSUN]

Correct me if I'm wrong but he's the only one writing such stuff. I personally find it very hard to believe that an external journalist would be given access to view MLSE internal security footage. Very skeptical.

Either I'm lying, or I'm good at my job.

[BuSaPuNk]

They're not being asked to control random season ticket holders. They're being asked to hold each other accountable.
Let's not forget ... All of this came about because an Inebriatti member was caught holding a disgusting sign. What's the solution, do nothing?

Oh you mean the second person that had a hand on it?
Not the person that made it and brought it in through security at the gate that let it in?
Not the TFC employees that seen it on the concourse before the game for 10-15 mins?
Not the security in the stands that would have obviously see it but let it continue to go up?

Whatever.
This is a straight up attack on support and one group in particular.
Funny how they want marketing material they go to them, but they "hold no monetary value"

Whatever I'm done. No playoff tickets and not renewing my season seats, can't justify supporting this.

[KurtLarSUN]

Oh you mean the second person that had a hand on it?
Not the person that made it and brought it in through security at the gate that let it in?
Not the TFC employees that seen it on the concourse before the game for 10-15 mins?
Not the security in the stands that would have obviously see it but let it continue to go up?

Whatever.
This is a straight up attack on support and one group in particular.
Funny how they want marketing material they go to them, but they "hold no monetary value"

Whatever I'm done. No playoff tickets and not renewing my season seats, can't justify supporting this.

Two things:

I'm confused by the logic of: "Well, security missed it so that absolves us of any and all responsibility."

Also, you should try enjoying the football rather than concerning yourself with silly politics that have been kicked up by a certain faction of fans.

[Pint]

It could be true, but what does holding mean? did the non member need to grab a beer so he handed it to the person next to him for 2 min?

Nobody has even pretended to say a member brought it in and prominently displayed it. It got past security, nobody snuck anything in. Anyone who comes through gate 3 or 3b knows security is pretty relaxed and doesn't really check much.

[Joe Kool]

I have had my issues in the past two seasons on a few occasions with some immature members (using my polite words) of the Inebriatti and I am not particularly fond of the way they go about some things but I am trying not to let that cloud my judgement on this. Groups should be held accountable for their actions as a group if there is evidence any issue is coordinated by the group but in a general sense they do not control the whole section so I don't see how they can be accountable for random people in it. In this case they said they have found and dealt with the people involved with the two stick so not sure why they don't leave it at that.

I do not agree with any supporter group having to police their section, if that is indeed what is being asked, unless TFC can prove that 100% of the people in it belong to that group and you know that ain't going to happen. They are not paid or trained to do that especially with non-affiliated people in their section. I am in 114 and part of RPB and I don't want any Inebriatti guys trying to tell me what to do. That is what security is there for and paid/trained to do. Supporter groups can only be responsible for people that belong to their group and if any member is involved they work with the club to handle it. No group can be responsible for people that wander into a section and we know that not everyone in the section at any point in time belong to each group. In fact, in 114, RPB get the un-renewed tickets for the top of the section if I recall. They were given tickets in that section as overflow from 112 because U-Sector had 113. So does that mean RPB are responsible now for anyone at the top of 114? Or should RPB be partly responsible as well for the two stick thing because they have people in the section? Where do you draw the line?

In my opinion just let security secure and let supporters support. Use your new high tech camera system along with paid security to address the issues with the individuals that are involved in any incident and leave the groups out of it unless there is evidence it is a group effort. That is my two cents.

[KurtLarSUN]

It could be true, but what does holding mean? did the non member need to grab a beer so he handed it to the person next to him for 2 min?

Nobody has even pretended to say a member brought it in and prominently displayed it. It got past security, nobody snuck anything in. Anyone who comes through gate 3 or 3b knows security is pretty relaxed and doesn't really check much.

"Non member" is just another term for "a guy we know who sits with us and is pretty much a member..."

And a security breach doesn't absolve those in the section. It just means an employee or employees decided to not do their jobs that day.

Or, the banner was snuck in.

But back to my first sentence. It doesn't really matter how or why it appeared. It appeared.

[ryan]

Either I'm lying, or I'm good at my job.

I'm 99.9% confident it's both.

[Pint]

"Non member" is just another term for "a guy we know who sits with us and is pretty much a member..."

And a security breach doesn't absolve those in the section. It just means a member or members of security decided not to do their jobs that day.

Or, the banner was snuck in.

But back to my first sentence. It doesn't really matter how or why it appeared. It appeared.

Completely incorrect. Sections 113, 114, and 116 have a varying range in terms of % of SG members and non members and if you ask many in those sections they do not identify as a member of a SG and in fact would be a little insulted you may have lumped them in. 116... 120ish kings, 50ish O109's in a 500-700 seat section... but ya make us responsible for everyone esle.

[TheGoodson]

So let me understand these issues with that specific SG:

they didn't cause the damage in Montreal (it was someone else)
some random fan is going to make a two stick bring it into their section? (and no where else in the southend and it was someone else)

They act like they want to be so ultra then can't handle the heat when they get their hands slapped..

They should grow a set a balls and man up period, don't be the victim all the damn time.

For the first time in out ten year history, we are in first place in our conference, we have the best player in the league and we have a legitimate chance of making a deep run in the playoffs and this is what we are talking about. I am saddened that they have become a bigger story then our club and the success we have had this year to date.

I think the conversation with FO about this issue should be done in the offseason, and for the balance of the games have all the supporters group understand that they (FO) will be more vigilant in making sure no banners like that get through / more security to make sure that the people that are in the section have tickets their and that the SG should report anything if they see anything that is not right regardless if they are members of a SG or not...

[leafsman]

Im in 113 and not a member of a SG

[KurtLarSUN]

Completely incorrect. Sections 113, 114, and 116 have a varying range in terms of % of SG members and non members and if you ask many in those sections they do not identify as a member of a SG and in fact would be a little insulted you may have lumped them in. 116... 120ish kings, 50ish O109's in a 500-700 seat section... but ya make us responsible for everyone esle.

I'm talking about a single incident, involving a "non-member" and an actual member. Both have been suspended.
I'm not going to spend my time disputing how affiliated a supposed "non-member" was. It's childish.

[TFC Tifoso]

Well considering their tag line is "No Pyro No Party", that says it all. If you look back at TFC supporter history, a previous group North End Elite that disbanded, took on a somewhat Ultra approach too, got the ire of the front office and eventually former TFC executive Paul Beirne just chose to stop engaging them. Over time they just disappeared. Guess when they lost their seat at the big boy table, they simply lost interest.

NEE continued to exist a couple of years after Paul left.....some members are still active with other SG's.....some had "life" get in the way.....and considering their numbers were comparitively less, sometimes shit happens....you shouldn't talk about things you don't know about......

[Pint]

I'm talking about a single incident, involving a "non-member" and an actual member. Both have been suspended.
I'm not going to spend my time disputing how affiliated a supposed "non-member" was. It's childish.

Childish? We will do our best to control those we know, those we don't we have no influence on. Pretty simple.

As your colleague Laura Armstrong was able to assess, this protest is not about the sanctions levied against Inebriatti its due to the context in section 2 of the agreement they are trying to force them to sign.

[KurtLarSUN]

Childish? We will do our best to control those we know, those we don't we have no influence on. Pretty simple.

As your colleague Laura Armstrong was able to assess, this protest is not about the sanctions levied against Inebriatti its due to the context in section 2 of the agreement they are trying to force them to sign.

I'll let you in on a little secret ...
TFC doesn't need anyone to sign a contract. They can police the section however they wish without your signature.

[Pint]

I'll let you in on a little secret ...
TFC doesn't need anyone to sign a contract. They can police the section however they wish without your signature.
The agreement is a silly piece of paper that I'm guessing was written up to set clear boundaries with supporters.
In the end, it doesn't really matter.

and SG's can sit and just watch the game like many around the stadium... you turned this into a farce not us.

[KurtLarSUN]

and SG's can sit and just watch the game like many around the stadium... you turned this into a farce not us.

Of course they can! Just wanted the truth out there. Now it is.

[TheGoodson]

IMO the farce is that people think they are bigger then the club...

[KurtLarSUN]

IMO the farce is that people think they are bigger then the club...

Which, in essence, was one of the points of my piece ... along with exposing a few other details.

[Canary10]

Two things:

I'm confused by the logic of: "Well, security missed it so that absolves us of any and all responsibility."

Also, you should try enjoying the football rather than concerning yourself with silly politics that have been kicked up by a certain faction of fans.

Just a question: why does the front office get a free pass in your article? Shouldn't the "enjoy the football" part pertain to them too? They escalated the situation, which has resulted in the protests. Now the atmosphere at BMO is absolute crap. The players are effected. Maybe an FO who actually gave a shit about, you know, winning, might turn the temperature down a bit and deal with this in the close season and concentrate on winning now. The thing I find petty is a billion dollar corporation "taking on" a ragtag group of people who are, at most, overzealously supporting THEIR product.

[Detroit_TFC]

I'll let you in on a little secret ...
TFC doesn't need anyone to sign a contract. They can police the section however they wish without your signature.

That's been true since day one. So that begs the question, why the unnecessary exercise from the FO? When issues like this have come up in the past, they have always been handled by SG leaderships and the FO. Is this a "show of force" for the league office?

[TheGoodson]

Which, in essence, was one of the points of my piece ... along with exposing a few other details.

I stated this earlier in this thread we are in unprecedented territory in the clubs history. We are top of the table and have a good opportunity to go deep in the playoffs and this is what we are talking about the day before a game. It makes me sad and angry, but not surprised as I have been here since day 1 and seen the entitlement of some people...

[KurtLarSUN]

Just a question: why does the front office get a free pass in your article? Shouldn't the "enjoy the football" part pertain to them too? They escalated the situation, which has resulted in the protests. Now the atmosphere at BMO is absolute crap. The players are effected. Maybe an FO who actually gave a shit about, you know, winning, might turn the temperature down a bit and deal with this in the close season and concentrate on winning now. The thing I find petty is a billion dollar corporation "taking on" a ragtag group of people who are, at most, overzealously supporting THEIR product.

Based on my conversations and understanding of the situation from all sides (although Inebriatti refuses to talk to me), I haven't found anything wrong with the way the front office has handled the situation. While I think the "agreement" is silly, I'm not sure it's a talking point simply because TFC doesn't need said "agreement" to police it's stadium how it sees fit. The front office is pretty reasonable. I'm not sure the same can be said for a certain supporters group.