Match Day 30 - This game is a socialist utopia Reds vs Union Sat Sept 24 5 pm

[OgtheDim]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2_dhUv_CrI/hqdefault.jpg


(All credit to Red4ever for the title and the pic)


******

Have at it People

[Red4ever]

Aww *blush*

[Oldtimer]

The best strategy:

WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN

[GhostKiller]

The best strategy:

WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN
I think if we score some goals while shutting them out, we have a good chance at winning. Hopefully Vanney has the same strategy.

[notthesun]

If we win this game we're pretty much guaranteed a top 4 seed and hence a home playoff game. We would be on 50 points, which none of the teams below the line can reach, nor can the Revs. That only leaves one team to beat, and Philly would have 3 games left, giving them a max of 50, and they'd need to overturn a current -10 goal difference.

[barticusz]

I'd love a 1-0 shutout here. Just a solid defensive performance to get the D's minds back on track and feeling confident. I mean, I'll take any number of goals but more than anything I want good defense in preparation for the playoffs.

[Hamilton_Red]

Our defence needs to rebound after that shite display. Irwin in for Bono and Hagglund in for Zavaletta.

[notthesun]

Our defence needs to rebound after that shite display. Irwin in for Bono and Hagglund in for Zavaletta.

Nah, leave Zavaleta in. He's shown that he's good enough, he just had a really bad game yesterday. Also, not Vanney's style to bury a young guy after one error (he could've done that to Bono after the San Jose debacle).

[molenshtain]

Our defence needs to rebound after that shite display. Irwin in for Bono and Hagglund in for Zavaletta.

Zavaleta had one bad game. He's shown this season to be a superior player to Hagglund. It would be worse to drop him now and have him lose form and confidence right before the playoffs than to let him work through it and rebound.

[MightyDM]

Hagglund is better in the air and being physical with a big body like Drogba. Zavaleta better with the ball at his feet and I think a bit more mobile. Horses for courses.

[ChrisFizik]

Strategy:

Endut!
Hoch Hech!

[OgtheDim]

Rumours of Maurice Edu coming back for this game, either as a DM or a CB (they have issues there).

[Fort York Redcoat]

Rumours of Maurice Edu coming back for this game, either as a DM or a CB (they have issues there).

OF COURSE. For THIS game. :mad:

[105]

Time to clinch a playoff spot for the 2nd time in a few days. :)

[Oldtimer]

Rumours of Maurice Edu coming back for this game, either as a DM or a CB (they have issues there).

If the "TFC curse" is in full effect he'll score a goal, too.

[Yohan]

If the "TFC curse" is in full effect he'll score a goal, too.
Probably. Still waiting for Creavalle to pot on for Philly on us.

Edu will not be match fit and haven't played a game in ages. I think he can be exploited

[ryan]

was disappointed with the NYRB fan turnout, looking at the scarcity of tickets for this I'm hopeful for a bigger, louder atmosphere. these guys deserve a full house for 90.

[Still Kicking]

Time to clinch a playoff spot for the 2nd time in a few days. :)

We are going to keep on playing the schedule until the league gets their numbers in order....

[ensco]

Can we do the Edu song? Just because?

[leedsandTFC]

gio back for this?

[Richard]

gio back for this?

According to Vanney its only a matter of how many minutes he gets.

[jloome]

According to Vanney its only a matter of how many minutes he gets.

I assume Simonin won't be back up to the senior team this year...

He played 90 mins. the other night, apparently.

[Blindside16]

I'd love a 1-0 shutout here. Just a solid defensive performance to get the D's minds back on track and feeling confident. I mean, I'll take any number of goals but more than anything I want good defense in preparation for the playoffs.

I agree 100%. We need our backline feeling strong and confident for the playoff push.

[Super]

was disappointed with the NYRB fan turnout, looking at the scarcity of tickets for this I'm hopeful for a bigger, louder atmosphere. these guys deserve a full house for 90.

They need to be giving out free shit for people to show up early. I'm not sure why people show up late so routinely - it's not like it's a 5 hour event. Football games are short compared to other local sports. Having said all of this, Toronto is notorious for late showing crowds. Part of the reason is shitty transit. I live at Yonge/Eg and it takes about 90 minutes for me to get to the ground using TTC + some walking. That seems like a lot - midtown to downtown west.

[Discostu81]

They need to be giving out free shit for people to show up early. I'm not sure why people show up late so routinely - it's not like it's a 5 hour event. Football games are short compared to other local sports. Having said all of this, Toronto is notorious for late showing crowds. Part of the reason is shitty transit. I live at Yonge/Eg and it takes about 90 minutes for me to get to the ground using TTC + some walking. That seems like a lot - midtown to downtown west.

I live at Queen/Parliament, take the King streetcar over and sometimes it can take as long as it would take me to walk if the traffic in the core is particularly bad.

With that said, I just make sure that I always head out with plenty of time. The constant lateness of people amazes me.

[Canary10]

Queen and Carlaw for me. It's regularly an hour plus to get to BMO on the streetcar. Extremely annoying.

[Discostu81]

Worst thing about living on the east side!

[Stress]

The Dufferin bus route was a gong show last weekend. They had to detour back to Lansdowne and Dundas and then realized it's closed too and basically just piled up the buses there and told people sorry and we had to get out. I was at Dufferin station nearly 1.5 hours before kick off and I was still late. Seems to be one of the popular TTC routes down there so I'm sure many people were in a similar situation as me.

[ryan]

They need to be giving out free shit for people to show up early. I'm not sure why people show up late so routinely - it's not like it's a 5 hour event. Football games are short compared to other local sports. Having said all of this, Toronto is notorious for late showing crowds. Part of the reason is shitty transit. I live at Yonge/Eg and it takes about 90 minutes for me to get to the ground using TTC + some walking. That seems like a lot - midtown to downtown west.

More than part of the reason, it's nearly the whole reason.

I used to live there so I know your struggle, it's a fucking chore to get a couple KM in Toronto if it's not right on the subway line. With streetcars down it's terrible to get there.

The main sign, cause it's something across ALL our city's teams, is everyone shows up late and leaves early, regardless of the match. Just to beat traffic. It's such a problem that people don't care they paid XXX dollars to be there, they'd rather not suffer in our terrible traffic system.

[Mateo1985]

I'm always there on time. I live like a 5 minute walk from the stadium though :stogey:

[trane]

I think if we score some goals while shutting them out, we have a good chance at winning. Hopefully Vanney has the same strategy.

Yeah, Oldtimer, just leaving the strategy as win, win, win is too simplistic. Trying to score more goals then them is a much more tangible and analytical strategy, one that the them can follow.

Think about it, if the coach tell you, "Just go out and win", you would be like "but sir how do we do that?" The coach then has to think about it , and tell you " lets try to score more goals then the other side, if we do that we will win", then you have clear marching order, everyone is on the same page.

I hope that Vanney has adopted the lets try to score more goals then them approach. Although the best approach is do not let them score any goals, while you score at least one, is my favorites, because then you do not have to score like 10 goals, but just one, because if you just adopt lets score more goals them then as a strategy, then maybe they score 12 goals, then you have to score 13 and that can be hard to do in a 90 minute game.

I know I this kind of complicated, but there it is.

[Joe Kool]

I'm always there on time. I live like a 5 minute walk from the stadium though :stogey:

Bragger...

[Mateo1985]

Bragger...


Couldn't help it. Up until two months ago I lived 53 kms away from BMO so I had my share of shitting commutes to the stadium lmao

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The Dufferin bus route was a gong show last weekend. They had to detour back to Lansdowne and Dundas and then realized it's closed too and basically just piled up the buses there and told people sorry and we had to get out. I was at Dufferin station nearly 1.5 hours before kick off and I was still late. Seems to be one of the popular TTC routes down there so I'm sure many people were in a similar situation as me.

better off taking the 504 from dundas w station

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I'm always there on time. I live like a 5 minute walk from the stadium though :stogey:

you and me both.
I should change my name maybe

[Oldtimer]

Yeah, Oldtimer, just leaving the strategy as win, win, win is too simplistic.

It was a joke.

[jloome]

It was a joke.

He knows that. So was his response.

[MightyDM]

better off taking the 504 from dundas w station
Normally. But Roncy closed for Polish festival last week

[Blindside16]

I live in Mississauga and I used to drive down to the games. It would take at least 40-45 minutes to get there and at least 1.5 hours to get home. This year I started hopping on the GO at Clarkson and I find the days are much more enjoyable. I usually aim to get to BMO an hour before kick off and haven't really had any problems so far.

[MightyDM]

They need to be giving out free shit for people to show up early. I'm not sure why people show up late so routinely - it's not like it's a 5 hour event. Football games are short compared to other local sports. Having said all of this, Toronto is notorious for late showing crowds. Part of the reason is shitty transit. I live at Yonge/Eg and it takes about 90 minutes for me to get to the ground using TTC + some walking. That seems like a lot - midtown to downtown west.

Have you tried subway to Union and queens quay streetcar?

[paul-collins]

Ugh, don't use the QQ streetcar. Then you have to get on the Fleet bus shuttle.

Honestly, best bet (although it costs) is the Ex GO train from Union.

[GhostKiller]

Yeah, Oldtimer, just leaving the strategy as win, win, win is too simplistic. Trying to score more goals then them is a much more tangible and analytical strategy, one that the them can follow.

Think about it, if the coach tell you, "Just go out and win", you would be like "but sir how do we do that?" The coach then has to think about it , and tell you " lets try to score more goals then the other side, if we do that we will win", then you have clear marching order, everyone is on the same page.

I hope that Vanney has adopted the lets try to score more goals then them approach. Although the best approach is do not let them score any goals, while you score at least one, is my favorites, because then you do not have to score like 10 goals, but just one, because if you just adopt lets score more goals them then as a strategy, then maybe they score 12 goals, then you have to score 13 and that can be hard to do in a 90 minute game.

I know I this kind of complicated, but there it is.

I get where your coming from. I mean, if you just look at the stats we have not won a single game when the opposition scored more goals then us. On the inverse (I don't have the numbers in front of me) we have won much more games when we score more goals then the opposition. Its really just a numbers game.

[MightyDM]

Ugh, don't use the QQ streetcar. Then you have to get on the Fleet bus shuttle.

Honestly, best bet (although it costs) is the Ex GO train from Union.

good point. Next year!

[trane]

I get where your coming from. I mean, if you just look at the stats we have not won a single game when the opposition scored more goals then us. On the inverse (I don't have the numbers in front of me) we have won much more games when we score more goals then the opposition. Its really just a numbers game.

Exactly, that says it all. I hopefully a good manager understand that.

I know that Jloome understands.

[Canary10]

Exactly, that says it all. I hopefully a good manager understand that.

I know that Jloome understands.

Jloome just wants to play "good" football. Whatever that means.

[OgtheDim]

Actually the best way in is somehow getting on the Ossington bus and getting off in Liberty Village and walking over.

The streetcars are due back for January - we'll see.


*******

Oh, and this

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/778999010208124929

[Joe Kool]

Don't want them to rush Giovinco. I am sure he is chomping at the bit but they need to do the smart thing for a long playoff run. The team that played NYRB last week can beat Philly.

[pdogg]

I live in Mississauga and I used to drive down to the games. It would take at least 40-45 minutes to get there and at least 1.5 hours to get home. This year I started hopping on the GO at Clarkson and I find the days are much more enjoyable. I usually aim to get to BMO an hour before kick off and haven't really had any problems so far.

I'm up in Brampton and do the exact same thing. Might take a bit longer, but less stressful for sure. The only downside is the cost, with it being about $15 return on the GO (w/ Presto) per person. More than 2 people int he car, and we drive down and park.

[notthesun]

I don't want them to rush Giovinco, but I also want him to win MVP again...

[Richard]

Forget about MVP as that ship has sailed.

Its all about the championship and there is no point in rushing him back, we will secure home field with our current form.

[notthesun]

Forget about MVP as that ship has sailed.

Its all about the championship and there is no point in rushing him back, we will secure home field with our current form.

I wouldn't say that. He still leads in goals + assists by some distance, he just needs to come back and score a few times to remind everyone he's still around. If he ends the season strong and we finish 1st in the East, you'd have to put him ahead of the other candidates (Klejstan and Villa).

[notthesun]

Just announced, Cooper suspended for this game and fined after his little kick out last week. Dumb from him, but it will hurt less if Giovinco and/or Chapman can play.

[OgtheDim]

You know, I'm not happy with the suspension and kicking like that is stupdi.

But if we've got somebody else doing the hard man thing calling out falling down wasting time moves, that's a good thing. We don't want teams to like playing us anymore and if it takes a Canadian hard man and a Panamanian CONCACAF veteran to get that message across, so be it.

[Richard]

I rather we not devolve into CONFACAF scum tactics. :puke:

[mistercorporate]

I don't want them to rush Giovinco, but I also want him to win MVP again...

me too.

[Detroit_TFC]

I agree with not pushing Seba back too soon but it would be a shame if the result goes TFC's way and he isn't on the bench to celebrate with the squad. MVP and Golden Boot are beyond him now unfortunately unless he goes on some sort of crazed scoring run in the last three games.

[mistercorporate]

Do the MVP and Golden Boot awards include playoff performance/goals?

[Kamp Berg]

Do the MVP and Golden Boot awards include playoff performance/goals?

Nope

[OgtheDim]

I rather we not devolve into CONFACAF scum tactics. :puke:

Yeah well if you want to see the opposite of CONCACAF tactics, watch NYRB give up leads. There's a space for savvy and hard headedness and knowing when to slow the game down. I'm not for the kicking and the like and what Cooper did is wrong.

But for too long we saw teams kicking the crap out of us - glad its stopped.

[Derko]

I rather we not devolve into CONFACAF scum tactics. :puke:

You honestly think underhanded tactics are exclusive to (by the way it is CONCACAF), you are naïve, some of the best scum tactics are played to perfection in Europe, if Cooper had of scored you would cheering, regardless of the kick, don't be so fickle.

[mistercorporate]

I just want us to win, I don't give a damn how we do it. Remember David Villa knocking a goal against us after touching the ball with his hand? Remember the "hand of god" by Maradonna?

[Richard]

You honestly think underhanded tactics are exclusive to (by the way it is CONCACAF), you are naïve, some of the best scum tactics are played to perfection in Europe, if Cooper had of scored you would cheering, regardless of the kick, don't be so fickle.

No I don't think its exclusive, I think Gio dives too many times for my taste, but with these MLS refs I can see why when they are so inconsistent and don't protect him.

Cooper kicking and stomping is dumb, that just gives you a bad rep amongst refs, I don't think that's being fickle.



Yeah well if you want to see the opposite of CONCACAF tactics, watch NYRB give up leads. There's a space for savvy and hard headedness and knowing when to slow the game down. I'm not for the kicking and the like and what Cooper did is wrong.

But for too long we saw teams kicking the crap out of us - glad its stopped.

Its stopped because we got hard tacklers in Cheyrou, Johnson and Bradley which is a legitimate skill unlike kicking after the fact. I rather we put fear into players by them knowing we got players who can give a crunching but legitimate tackle.

I'm just sceptical because of Cooper's previous history with Arabe Unido.

[MightyDM]

I just watched the build up to Red Bulls third goal again. Delgado loses the ball unnecessarily in an attacking position on the left. Poor. But neither Bradley not Beita recognize the danger properly. Why was Beta way up in the first place when ball was on the left under pressure -positioning error - and had to sprint back immediately. Bradley doesn't appear to see that Beita is out of position, and is pretty lackadaisical in tracking Klejsjan. Quite poor, and Delgados mistake the least of the three. Watching it again worries me, looked disorganized and complacent. Should not happen from experienced players.

[jloome]

Jloome just wants to play "good" football. Whatever that means.

I suspect that if they give it 110%, god-willing, they might just take this one.

[paul-collins]

One game at a time.

[MightyDM]

I suspect that if they give it 110%, god-willing, they might just take this one.

nicely played

[reggie]

looks like cooper is suspended for saturday s game

[C.Ronaldo]

looks like cooper is suspended for saturday s game

heavy handed but MLS really wants to drive this kinda stuff out

is chapman available? he makes some mean ice cream

[Blizzard]

heavy handed but MLS really wants to drive this kinda stuff out

Godamn it. So needless. He's been playing well. :(

[Hamilton_Red]

I rather we not devolve into CONFACAF scum tactics. :puke:

We are in Concacaf?

[Jack]

Dumb play by Cooper, for sure.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/779347840841703424

:(

[Canary10]

I suspect that if they give it 110%, god-willing, they might just take this one.

Nice. :)

[molenshtain]

anyone know if Chapman is gonna be back for this one?

[OgtheDim]

anyone know if Chapman is gonna be back for this one?

Tweets that he and Ricketts both out still.

[OgtheDim]

So, Larson posted this

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/779420036784123904

We'll have to wait until the Sunday night result to come in to know for certain but there ya go.......

[Blizzard]

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/779347840841703424

:(

Don't even dress him please. Maybe Wed, maybe Saturday next but don't take any chances.

[OgtheDim]

So apparently the Yonge line is closed Bloor to Osgoode.

This during the Jays, World Cup of Hockey, TFC and Word on the Street.

I gets the feeling the TTC head honchos don't come into the city on weekends.

[Blizzard]

So apparently the Yonge line is closed Bloor to Osgoode.

This during the Jays, World Cup of Hockey, TFC and Word on the Street.

I gets the feeling the TTC head honchos don't come into the city on weekends.

I guess they could always work on the lines on Monday.

[ronzilla]

Might be a good idea to give Zava a break. What's up with Williams? Haven't seen or heard anything from him in a while.

[OgtheDim]

I guess they could always work on the lines on Monday.

They used to take into account events - not anymore it seems.

[Detroit_TFC]

Don't even dress him please. Maybe Wed, maybe Saturday next but don't take any chances.

Well, that question is settled. Garau reports that SG flew back to Italy due to an emergency.

[Joe Kool]

So apparently the Yonge line is closed Bloor to Osgoode.

This during the Jays, World Cup of Hockey, TFC and Word on the Street.

I gets the feeling the TTC head honchos don't come into the city on weekends.

Fall Home Show is on at Enercare Centre too so that should add to the traffic.

[jimiv]

Ismail Elfath is reffing the game, you may remember him from such steller games like Colorado where he fell for the diving by the Rapids and gave Cheyrou a second yellow.. or in Orlando where Julio Baptista tripped in the box and he gave a penalty kick in the 100th minute.

[Red CB Toronto]

I still have not decided on what I want for me pregame meal ( :

[Ivy]

I have learned that #Giovinco won't be at #BMOField because he had to flight back to #Italy for an emergency. Awaiting confirmation
-Twitter verse.

[OgtheDim]

Game Day :scarf:


Nice weather for it. A tad nippy this morning but should be 18 and sunny with a north wind by kickoff.


In some Union news, looks like one of their more creative mids will not be around

https://twitter.com/Kevin_Kinkead/status/779653184054845440

[Hamilton_Red]

Any update on Giovinco?

[OgtheDim]

No tweets beyond that one about Giovinco. Regardless, I don't think he should be on the bench or in the 11.

[Red CB Toronto]

Tosaint back in the lineup today?

[DYNAMO]

Tosaint back in the lineup today?i have an extra ticket..anyone need one?

[dmacd]

Confirmed from a club source - he's not in Toronto. Don't know anything beyond that.

[ronzilla]

https://twitter.com/TorontoFCPR/status/779759830101733376

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/779772489954058240

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/779772921380081669

[molenshtain]

Hagglund in for Zavs. CHeyrou in for Delgado. both interesting choices.

Vanney remains insistent with Osorio at the tip of the diamond. Frustrating to say the very least.

[mistercorporate]

Good to see Cheyrou replace Delgado, hopefully we'll see Cooper or Chapman in for Osorio when they're healthy again.

[notthesun]

I hope Zavaleta hasn't lost his place. Didn't think Vanney was going to take him out for one mistake...

[Oldtimer]

Glad to see Irwin in. Bono's been great, but Irwin is the best choice.

[Oldtimer]

I hope Zavaleta hasn't lost his place. Didn't think Vanney was going to take him out for one mistake...

Hagglund and Zavaleta are pretty much equivalent in my mind in terms of overall quality.

[ronzilla]

Vanney must be reading my posts g:D Zava needs a few weeks off, although Im not a big fan of Hagglund and would have preferred Williams, but he appears MIA.

3 big points today.

Im going to have streams up shortly here.


Streams

http://firstsrowsports.eu/soccer/first-toronto-vs-philadelphia-union-row710181

http://firstsrowsports.eu/soccer/first-toronto-fc-philadelphia-union-row710268

http://cricfree.tv/watch/live/toronto-fc-vs-philadelphia-union-live-streaming

http://cricfree.tv/watch/live/toronto-fc-vs-philadelphia-union-live-streaming

http://wiz1.net/channel13

http://www.nowfeed2all.eu/watch/469023/3/watch-toronto-fc-vs-philadelphia-union.html

http://www.sports-stream.net/ch16.html

[molenshtain]

The Sky Sports production and presentation of MLS games is just mind boggling in how much better they are than what we get on this side of the pond. A much more enjoyable watch.

[molenshtain]

Philly following New Jersey's game plan from last week. Press high and often. We're going to need a remedy for that problem come playoff time. Perhaps Seba's presence alone will do the job.

[flatpicker]

I think the team was out at the bar last night.
Not looking very sharp so far.

[molenshtain]

Cheyrou a huge liability so far. Not mobile enough to play in a game like this

[notthesun]

Pretty bad so far. Hagglund kept Bedoya onside and his passes have poor. Zavaleta should have kept his place.

[Hamilton_Red]

Very poor play so far. No signs of life.

[mistercorporate]

Team playing sluggish on the wings, sun in their eyes?

[Hamilton_Red]

Osario needs subbed at the half. He's lost.

[Inklink]

Osorio is an idiot.

[DSouzaZ]

Osorio seriously it's not that hard

[molenshtain]

Team playing sluggish on the wings, sun in their eyes?


Philly is pressing high and Osorio, Hamilton and Altidore aren't doing well enough to provide outlets. We're getting stuffed in the middle and we have no where to go on the wings. I expect Vanney to make some adjustments come half time.

[notthesun]

Worst offensive half of the season. Absolutely no creativity anywhere. All we're doing is passing down the wing to Morrow and Beitashour then recycling possession until we eventually lose it. Nobody is playing anything that's going to unlock them.

Osorio dribbling into the middle and seeing off 3 or 4 passes because they weren't sure things... ugh, kill me. You're gonna have to play a risky pass in the final third every now and then if you want to create chances, fuck.

[DSouzaZ]

Osario needs subbed at the half. He's lost.

Osorio seriously it's not that hard

[ronzilla]

I have lost patience for Oso.

[General Woolfe]

Man what a really poor first half from TFC. ITs like its the first time these players have played together. Poor ball control, passes going astray. Our full backs cant cross to save their lives, and our midfield seem completely devoid of ideas. Vanney needs to shake things up at the break, however I dont see many options on the bench. Delgado on for Johnson, who's been poor for the last few games, is the one change i'd make immediately. However, I don't see much in reserve tonight so we really need the players on the park to step up their game.

I think its time to get Giovinco back in the side and stop wrapping him in cotton wool. By the player's own admission he was ready to go two games back. I know some would keep him for the play offs but the SS is still up for grabs, not to mention home field advantage through the playoffs, so I dont think we have the luxury

[mistercorporate]

sub in Delgado and bring in one of our "risk of injury" players like Ricketts, we've got to go all in for the 3 points.

[notthesun]

I'd consider Babouli for Hamilton. I don't think Osorio should be playing AM but I don't know who I'd put there... honestly kind of tempted to put Cheyrou there. Hell you could even put Cheyrou at DM, move Osorio to the right and put Bradley at AM. We have to do something without Cooper to go to (and Giovinco).

[notthesun]

sub in Delgado and bring in one of our "risk of injury" players like Ricketts, we've got to go all in for the 3 points.

He's not on the bench. Babouli, Endoh and Lovitz are the attacking options.

[mistercorporate]

Endoh for Osorio and change up of tactics perhaps? They're Red Bulls'ing the crap out of us.

[notthesun]

Jesus christ Osorio that was Bostock-like.

[mistercorporate]

Whatever's said done, Osorio's great on the ball, perhaps sub in Endoh to replace him the rest of the way.

[General Woolfe]

He's not the only one, but Hamilton is having a 'mare (Betashour is another) Given we desparately need a goal here, perhaps bringing Baboulli on for him now, makes sense

[Hamilton_Red]

Bradley shouldnt be allowed to pass the ball more than 15 yards.

[Hamilton_Red]

OMG - this is getting worse! We are playibg like a team that wint be in the playoffs.

[General Woolfe]

Yeeesssss!!!!!

:scarf:

[Hamilton_Red]

OMG - this is getting worse! We are playibg like a team that wint be in the playoffs.


LOl..should have posted earlier.

[Yohan]

Morrow scores a lot of goals for a fullback

[mistercorporate]

Slow and sloppy, what's happenning.

[mistercorporate]

Morrow, I'm straight as can be, but I could suck your face after that goal! Way to come back!

The solution for these high pressing teams seems to be fast attackers.

[molenshtain]

fuckin a

[molenshtain]

I give Osorio a lot of shit, but credit to him for his role in that goal, beat a man and stalled until he found the right pass.

[mistercorporate]

They're parking the bus...bug go through the middle men!

[molenshtain]

Morrow is now our third top scorer this season in league pay.

[Richard]

Morrow is now our third top scorer this season in league pay.

He should ask for a raise!

[mistercorporate]

Shhhh! :D

Salary cap!

Great shot by Babouli.

[Inklink]

I think devos is right, altidore fouled first.

[molenshtain]

Third time Elfaith has robbed us of points this season. We would have rapped up the conference title already were it not for him.

Altidore and possibly Bradley given yellow cards after the final whistle for arguing the call.

[mistercorporate]

Babouli works well with Altidore, does the second striker role well. Better than the Babouli-Giovinco combo in my opinion.

[Couchy81]

Craig Forrest sounds like a moron, ref got the call wrong and he sides with him. Replay clearly shows Sapong kicking Altidore from behind trying to clear the ball and cuts him down.

Maybe its Jason Devos, I cant tell them apart they both sound the same. Fuck.

[ag futbol]

Thought that was pretty underwhelming. Would like to see a little more emphasis on moving the ball forward with urgency. Cycling around the back 4 and then pumping a ball over the top for Altidore is a stale attack (which is basically what we saw in the last 10 minutes).

[Hugh Jazz]

Yup, when Bradley's distribution is that poor they need to change things up. Lots of over hit long balls today.

[molenshtain]

Thought that was pretty underwhelming. Would like to see a little more emphasis on moving the ball forward with urgency. Cycling around the back 4 and then pumping a ball over the top for Altidore is a stale attack (which is basically what we saw in the last 10 minutes).


certainly the biggest whole in our lineup at the moment is a player who can consistently link the midfield and the attack. That said, Both Chapman and Cooper were out. They're the two guys on the team who are far and away the best at that. I'm not sure how much more Vanney could have done with players available.

RE Chapman's effect: Doyle just posted a very interesting stat. He's second in the league in chances created per 90 minutes. ahead of Diaz, Kleijstan, Lodeiro etc.

Having him in form and cemented at the tip of the diamond is going to be very key down the stretch and into the playoffs.

[General Woolfe]

I suppose we need to acknowledge the 'character' shown in fighting back for a point. However, that was a God awful performance throughout the side. Another two points thrown away, and with them most likely our game in hand. (Presuming the Soft Drinks beat the Poutine Eaters tonight) Today's result probably means we need to go perfect in the last four games, including a win in Montreal, if we are to top the conference and enjoy the home field advantage that goes with it. Although if the last two month is anything to go by, home field isn't much of an advantage for our side.

The sooner Seba is back in the side the better, ditto for Rickets on the bench. Hopefully with a fit squad to choose from we can get our act together and start to build some momentum going into the playoffs. Bradley flirting with a ban is a bit of a worry and it might be better to get it out of the way before the trip to Quebec (Does anyone know if the the yellow accumulation carries over into the playoffs?)

[Prof]

I think devos is right, altidore fouled first.

No Devos is wrong. Look at it again. They are both going for the ball and Altidore is kicked from behind. Devos is biased against Toronto.

[reggie]

im worried about seba.he said on his instagram that his injury is more severe then they thought and he will train hard in italy to get better.

[ag futbol]

certainly the biggest whole in our lineup at the moment is a player who can consistently link the midfield and the attack. That said, Both Chapman and Cooper were out. They're the two guys on the team who are far and away the best at that. I'm not sure how much more Vanney could have done with players available.

RE Chapman's effect: Doyle just posted a very interesting stat. He's second in the league in chances created per 90 minutes. ahead of Diaz, Kleijstan, Lodeiro etc.

Having him in form and cemented at the tip of the diamond is going to be very key down the stretch and into the playoffs.
I like chapman, a lot, but Doyle's stat overstates the case. It's a flawed sample when you measure per games metrics vs. players who are on the field a lot more. Want to see him back but the team still needs to be more dynamic.

We have a few issues that limit our ability to move the ball around a team stuffing the midfield. A good pivot is one but it doesn't end there.

[Eastend]

I find our mid is better without Bradley. I hate the fact that EVERY attack goes through him and he slow the shit down every time. Too many back or side passes. I find more people involved when he's out because they have to get creative and they don't "rely" on him.

[molenshtain]

I like chapman, a lot, but Doyle's stat overstates the case. It's a flawed sample when you measure per games metrics vs. players who are on the field a lot more. Want to see him back but the team still needs to be more dynamic.

We have a few issues that limit our ability to move the ball around a team stuffing the midfield. A good pivot is one but it doesn't end there.

It does overstate it to a certain extent, but still very explicitly indicates his talent and his value to the team. He's obviously not at this point better than the other playmakers I mentioned. But When he's not in the lineup and we play the diamond we struggle to create through the middle, and when he does play he's elite in his ability to create chances from the ten position.

We're a much better team when he's on the field.

[molenshtain]

I find our mid is better without Bradley. I hate the fact that EVERY attack goes through him and he slow the shit down every time. Too many back or side passes. I find more people involved when he's out because they have to get creative and they don't "rely" on him.


Seba was out and we were playing without an attacking midfielder. Bradley was our only creative outlet and he works best playing from a deep position.

The game didn't go our way today because we had certain guys out who prevented us from playing the best possible lineup to counteract Philly's tactics. we made the most of what we had.

[Couchy81]

No Devos is wrong. Look at it again. They are both going for the ball and Altidore is kicked from behind. Devos is biased against Toronto.

Yes this isn't the first time I've gotten pissed at "Craig Forrest" by mistake... Devos is a douchebag when it comes to TFC

[backbeat]

so what was the protest about in the supporters section in the first half?

[Richard]

im worried about seba.he said on his instagram that his injury is more severe then they thought and he will train hard in italy to get better.

Vanney earlier this week said they could have played him last game if the game was important. This weeks game he said it was only a matter of how many minutes. It does not sound good.

This family emergency also sounds very strange to me. Is that being used as cover because he doesn't like the doctors here? Didn't he get a physio from Italy to come here a while ago, or get a second opinion from there?

I'm getting Defoe flashbacks with him fucking off to England under the guise of getting treatment all the while trying to get and EPL club to sign him.

Good thing Seba is different.

[Eastend]

Seba was out and we were playing without an attacking midfielder. Bradley was our only creative outlet and he works best playing from a deep position.

The game didn't go our way today because we had certain guys out who prevented us from playing the best possible lineup to counteract Philly's tactics. we made the most of what we had.

My opinion isn't based on this game only. Yes he's a good player, obviously, but overall I'm not a fan of his style.

[mistercorporate]

Perhaps put in Cheyrou for Bradley, we do have a habit of not winning when Bradley's on the field. That being said he has world class games from time to time.

[molenshtain]

My opinion isn't based on this game only. Yes he's a good player, obviously, but overall I'm not a fan of his style.

But the 'style' of his play changes depending on game states and who else we have on the field. We become less reliant on Bradley to create when the rest of our best chance creators are out there. It lets him move the ball more quickly. There was no one for him to pass to today.

[OgtheDim]

They cut through our midfield in the first half pretty easily. Delgado was missed as Johnson had an off game.

That sub changed things.

We have to figure out a way to play against the press from minute 1.

[OgtheDim]

As for Seba, journos showed his Instagram post.

He says his family is here and his seeing his own doctor because the injury isn't healing as he'd like.

His picture is of the team.

Baring a move for money, I think he's here until he retires.

[Pookie]

No point in rushing him back.

No point really in anyone getting hurt. This is basically pre post season training time.

[OgtheDim]

We'd rather not play the midweek game and then have to go to New York for the second leg


So no this is not just preseason.

[Hamilton_Red]

That was another poor game from Bradley. His long passing is getting worse and worse. He shouldn't be anywhere near the ball on set pieces. I wonder if he would adapt well as a CB? He's a defensive midfielder at best. I'd be looking to upgrade that role next season.

Other than the last 10 - 15 minutes the team didn't show up again. Johnson doesn't seem to be fully fit & if Giovinco doesn't get game fit before the play-offs it could be pretty dire. These big season end home games should be creating momentum but in a fashion we are all to familiar with the steam seems to be coming out of this team.

[Hamilton_Red]

No point in rushing him back.

No point really in anyone getting hurt. This is basically pre post season training time.

So the Supporters Shield means nothing to you? You've bought the NA PlayOff model hook line and sinker? We're tied with two there teams for first place. The goal has to be to win the whole thing.

[molenshtain]

That was another poor game from Bradley. His long passing is getting worse and worse. He shouldn't be anywhere near the ball on set pieces. I wonder if he would adapt well as a CB? He's a defensive midfielder at best. I'd be looking to upgrade that role next season.



You'd be looking to upgrade on the best Defensive midfielder in the league? focusing on improving areas where we're weak seems much more pragmatic, to me at least.

[Pookie]

So the Supporters Shield means nothing to you? You've bought the NA PlayOff model hook line and sinker? We're tied with two there teams for first place. The goal has to be to win the whole thing.

Ironic in that it means more to me. I would vote right now to do away with playoffs.

But not the organization and MLS. If Vanney goes out in the first game (or back to backs), his job is on the line. That's how a successful season is judged. Shield means nothing. Regular season is simply a seeding exercise for the playoffs. Designed to keep people interested and buying tickets as long as possible.

Clearly the results of an after season tournament mean nothing compared to a season long contest. You get that. I get that. But that's not how it will be judged.

So it's best to rest. Play conservative. Play not to get hurt. That's the game from here on out.

[MightyDM]

That was very poor, and not just in the first half. WJ very poor, Irwin error on goal, Bradley over hitting passes and free kicks, Beitshour poor as well.

moor was ok. Hagglund ok except for playing goal scorer onside. Cheyrou ok. Oso brilliant at times, but dispossed twice in our end - unusual for him - so only ok despite creating the goal. Hamilton mediocre, no impact today.

altidore and Morrow effective. But you need more than two players to win a match. They looked complacent in the first half. Need to realize that they aren't THAT good and get more focussed from the off.

[Richard]

As for Seba, journos showed his Instagram post.

He says his family is here and his seeing his own doctor because the injury isn't healing as he'd like.

His picture is of the team.

Baring a move for money, I think he's here until he retires.

How many times has this guy questioned the medical staff here?

At some point it becomes embarrassing that he keeps getting treatment elsewhere. Canada is a first world country.

[MightyDM]

I watched the penalty claim several times on MLS live.. No doubt about it at all. How it could be interpreted as a foul BY Altidore rather than a foul on him when the guy kicks him so hard he falls over is mind boggling.

[MightyDM]

How many times has this guy questioned the medical staff here?

At some point it becomes embarrassing that he keeps getting treatment elsewhere. Canada is a first world country.

Its who who you trust. His English is imperfect, likely hard for him to trust a non Italian Doctor.

[Richard]

I guess that makes sense and to be fair if he has contacts with Juventus' medical staff then its possibly a good idea, the doctors there would know more about him.

[OgtheDim]

Ironic in that it means more to me. I would vote right now to do away with playoffs.

But not the organization and MLS. If Vanney goes out in the first game (or back to backs), his job is on the line. That's how a successful season is judged. Shield means nothing. Regular season is simply a seeding exercise for the playoffs. Designed to keep people interested and buying tickets as long as possible.

Clearly the results of an after season tournament mean nothing compared to a season long contest. You get that. I get that. But that's not how it will be judged.

So it's best to rest. Play conservative. Play not to get hurt. That's the game from here on out.
As I said earlier,

Ur wrong. Although we should not rush Giovinco back from injury, the team must succeed now or all the work in the rest of the season is lost.

If we don't get one of the top 2 positions, we are likely to be going to New York for a decider in a 2 game series.

I know you don't think much of the playoffs but there are ways to make it easier.

Going slow now is a recipe to repeat last season.

[Pookie]

As I said earlier,

Ur wrong. Although we should not rush Giovinco back from injury, the team must succeed now or all the work in the rest of the season is lost.

If we don't get one of the top 2 positions, we are likely to be going to New York for a decider in a 2 game series.

I know you don't think much of the playoffs but there are ways to make it easier.

Going slow now is a recipe to repeat last season.

Vanney and staff have to weigh the greater evil. Playing game 1 at home instead of game 2? Maybe a knockout game?

Or an injury to a key member(s) of the starting 11?

With playoff success set up to mean everything, it's a no brainer.

[SKB]

Just saw the replay of the Jozy take down in the box. I relaplayed it on the TV a couple of times. All I can say is it is unbelievable that Jozy did not get the PK call. First of all there is nothing you can call on Jozy. Two guys were going for the ball Altidore did not touch the other guy he just got there quicker and the Philadelphia player took his legs out from the back. That has to be reviewed by the league and the ref reviewed. As noted by others the Philadelphia coaches felt it was a PK as well. Just a blatant screw up by the ref. Will be interesting if the league says or does anything

[Auzzy]

Oh goody, Pookie is back on one of his hobby horses.

About the game, I agree with most of what was written above. One thing needs to be added though, about the poor & un-inventive passing and build-up from the back: most of the time, almost NOBODY was moving to get open for a pass, or to pull Philly players out of position to make room for a play. Irwin, one of our defenders, or Bradley would have the ball in the back, and you would have about 8 other TFC players just standing there, looking back, wondering what their team mate would do next, instead of helping to create an opportunity. Sometimes 1 or 2 guys at the most would move a bit. E.g. Altidore often riding the line, looking for a through ball or a ball over the top (but all the long passes were too inaccurate today to do any good). Sometimes one other guy would move a bit, but that's about it.

Once TFC had the ball in the attacking third, the movement often got a bit better, but today they seemed to have no clue how to facilitate a build-up from the back (other than to have a FB bomb down the wing & put in a poor cross). Philly was really compressing the game especially in the first half, and parts of the 2nd half, with a high defensive line & high pressure on TFC. So there wasn't much room for vertical movement off the ball, but there should have been WAY more lateral movement.

Also I think Babouli should have been the first sub, and earlier. We needed some speed & creativity.

I again saw some things that worry me about Vanney and possible playoff success, but I won't get into that now.

[Detroit_TFC]

2 of 9 pts in last 3 home games tells me something is going on. I wonder if Seba is actually out for the rest of the season. The team looked deeply unsettled.

[DinamoTFC]

Saw high lights of the game and in summary Ismail elfaith or whatever his name is should never ref a game for tfc again. Pure robbery.

This guy should be relegated to usl permanently lIke he was earlier in the season. 100 percent penalty.

[Hamilton_Red]

2 of 9 pts in last 3 home games tells me something is going on. I wonder if Seba is actually out for the rest of the season. The team looked deeply unsettled.

This is a fair point. We are wobbling big time at the most crucial moment of the season. Getting Irwin in and game ready is critical. Getting Gio back and game fit is essential for a run at the title. Johnson only managing 60 minutes since his return is a worry. The big concern is the loss of form of Bradley..we played better when he was away at COPA and injured after that. He is hurting the team and the captain America ego thing is stopping us from adjusting to deal with it. He shouldn't be playing 90 minutes every game and he shouldn't be taking dead balls. Chapman and Delgado were more effective. To give up that much possession & have Altidore given so little service at home when we are riding so high is a crime. Bradley is at best a water carrier - he is a few year past being a box to box midfielder that could create goals.

[Hamilton_Red]

Saw high lights of the game and in summary Ismail elfaith or whatever his name is should never ref a game for tfc again. Pure robbery.

This guy should be relegated to usl permanently lIke he was earlier in the season. 100 percent penalty.

Was a bad call on the moment. But I wouldn't blame the refs with no video replay etc.. We were lucky to get a point in this match. Philly had more chances and created more..our first half performance was a disgrace. We are not on a trajectory for a serious run at the Shield or the MLS Cup.

[notthesun]

I get the feeling that we're fading a bit. We need Seba back to inject some life into the team.

[greatwhitenorf]

What a challenge in the week ahead for the local media.

Michael Bradley simply HAS to be taken to task over his piss poor play the past few games. There's simply no kind way to put it - he's been sub par and has to be held accountable.

Who is willing to risk being scorched by his intense X-Man laser death stare after daring to ask the hard questions? If Bradley is the leader he publicly positions himself to be, he'll take the initiative and come right out and admit he's been shit.

[Joe Kool]

This game and performance by TFC is exactly why we are not going anywhere in the playoffs. Sure Altidore probably should have had the penalty but really it should have never had to come down to that moment. TFC came out flat and pretty much stayed that way. If we keep it up we will probably not see a home playoff game this year again.

[Eastend]

This is a fair point. We are wobbling big time at the most crucial moment of the season. Getting Irwin in and game ready is critical. Getting Gio back and game fit is essential for a run at the title. Johnson only managing 60 minutes since his return is a worry. The big concern is the loss of form of Bradley..we played better when he was away at COPA and injured after that. He is hurting the team and the captain America ego thing is stopping us from adjusting to deal with it. He shouldn't be playing 90 minutes every game and he shouldn't be taking dead balls. Chapman and Delgado were more effective. To give up that much possession & have Altidore given so little service at home when we are riding so high is a crime. Bradley is at best a water carrier - he is a few year past being a box to box midfielder that could create goals.

I agree, specially the bolder section.

[Pookie]

Games are independent events.

A team "on form" could be riding a 10 game winning streak only to lose the next one because of a poor match up or an adjustment made by the opponent.

A team suffering a 10 game losing streak can snap it... maybe against the 10 game winner... just as easy.

Playoff competitions are different. You don't have to beat the league, only the team you line up against.

What we do on September 24th has no bearing at all on what they do in October. Unless of course they suffer a significant injury to a key starter(s).

Weird fact: Columbus and Portland went 4-2 over their last 6 last year and ended up in the cup final. TFC also went 4-2 and lost to Montreal in the knock out.

[stevep]

No point in rushing him back.

No point really in anyone getting hurt. This is basically pre post season training time.

not really true statement, even with a home game in the first round by placing 3rd of 4th, based on my estimating of what the betting odds will be
we have about a 33% chance of losing that first game also you do not get the rest factor as you have to play really quickly again in the second round games and you would have to play a far better opponent possibly New York red bulls vs say philadelphia
getting first or second place is really important.

[Hamilton_Red]

It would be a big disapointment and collapse if we don't finish top two. We ahould do everything to win the east and compete for the shield. Playoffs are a crap shoot - if get on a role to the finals then great.

[PAOK17]

Games are independent events.

A team "on form" could be riding a 10 game winning streak only to lose the next one because of a poor match up or an adjustment made by the opponent.

A team suffering a 10 game losing streak can snap it... maybe against the 10 game winner... just as easy.

Playoff competitions are different. You don't have to beat the league, only the team you line up against.

What we do on September 24th has no bearing at all on what they do in October. Unless of course they suffer a significant injury to a key starter(s).

Weird fact: Columbus and Portland went 4-2 over their last 6 last year and ended up in the cup final. TFC also went 4-2 and lost to Montreal in the knock out.
Not saying you're completely wrong but at the same time I really enjoyed how you skewed the stats to make it seem like the three teams were on same form going into the playoffs.

Last two games TFC lost both, scoring 1 goal, and conceding 4.
Last two games Portland won both, scoring 9 goals, and conceding 3.
Last two games the Crew won both, scoring 7 goals and conceding 0.

See what I just did there?

Also can you point out the benefit of easing up to play an extra game? No one is saying to rush players back, but if you don't finish top 2, you play an extra game. It will be one game far more competitive than the last four matches you could have used to avoid that match all together. Finish 5th or 6th and that extra game is away, and we know how stats favour the away teams in MLS, right?

[Hamilton_Red]

Not saying you're completely wrong but at the same time I really enjoyed how you skewed the stats to make it seem like the three teams were on same form going into the playoffs.

Last two games TFC lost both, scoring 1 goal, and conceding 4.
Last two games Portland won both, scoring 9 goals, and conceding 3.
Last two games the Crew won both, scoring 7 goals and conceding 0.

See what I just did there?

Also can you point out the benefit of easing up to play an extra game? No one is saying to rush players back, but if you don't finish top 2, you play an extra game. It will be one game far more competitive than the last four matches you could have used to avoid that match all together. Finish 5th or 6th and that extra game is away, and we know how stats favour the away teams in MLS, right?

Rookie's logic is the same Toronto Calculus that has the Leafs throwing games to get the last place overall and the first draft pick. Vanney needs to light a fire under Bradley and manage his play properly.

[Detroit_TFC]

Theory: SG has a injury but it's playable/can wait until off season to address:

https://twitter.com/mitchelltierney/status/779825318823469057

[SKB]

Agree with a lot of the discussion around slow movement and play in the midfield. Our starting 4 midfielder did not have a lot of quickness. Other than OSO all have average to below average speed. As soon as we brought in Delgado we opened them up. I was surprised about the starting midfield, especially putting Cheyrou on the right. However, they have to play 3 games this week and Vanney has to spread the players out to not burn anybody out.

[SKB]

Seba Factor: A lot of teams are pressing us high which is creating a lot of problems for us moving the ball. Teams are not afraid to commit players forward to press since there is no Seba threat. Seba is such a threat one on one or even one on two that teams are reluctant to commit players forward to press or attack. I thing even more so on the attack as the opposition half backs are not afraid to push forward. The return of Seba and in form will be necessary for the team to go deep in the playoffs, his meet presence forces clubs to drop deep and opens there field up for our midfield.

[MightyDM]

Agree with a lot of the discussion around slow movement and play in the midfield. Our starting 4 midfielder did not have a lot of quickness. Other than OSO all have average to below average speed. As soon as we brought in Delgado we opened them up. I was surprised about the starting midfield, especially putting Cheyrou on the right. However, they have to play 3 games this week and Vanney has to spread the players out to not burn anybody out.
Wheeler said post game that he thinks our best formation is a 3-5-2 with Cheyrou , Bradley in a double pivot in the middle. It is an interesting observation. There is something off right now for sure

[MightyDM]

Small thing, but on their goal the guy came back from a slightly offside position to be played on side by Hagglund. The other linesman had been calling that on TFC all the first half, at least twice on Hamilton and once on Altidore. For me it's not offside but the inconsistency is maddening

[Pookie]

Not saying you're completely wrong but at the same time I really enjoyed how you skewed the stats to make it seem like the three teams were on same form going into the playoffs.

Last two games TFC lost both, scoring 1 goal, and conceding 4.
Last two games Portland won both, scoring 9 goals, and conceding 3.
Last two games the Crew won both, scoring 7 goals and conceding 0.

See what I just did there?

Also can you point out the benefit of easing up to play an extra game? No one is saying to rush players back, but if you don't finish top 2, you play an extra game. It will be one game far more competitive than the last four matches you could have used to avoid that match all together. Finish 5th or 6th and that extra game is away, and we know how stats favour the away teams in MLS, right?

Point regarding TFC and Portland etc was simply to highlight that streaks mean nothing as the games are independent events.

As for finishing, I'm sure it's nice. Getting the bye to the 2nd round is good ... but not at all costs. Particularly since we are all tied up at the top and have a game in hand on both sides.

Vanney will be judged based on how far we go not whether we finish 2nd or 3rd. Shield isn't really realistic so it's no wonder we are seeing conservative decisions made with the playoffs in mind.

[notthesun]

Osorio was mostly poor in this game, but he was brilliant on our goal. That's why it's so frustrating to watch him sometimes, he has the ability to be doing that every game, but it's like he's afraid to try to push the game until we really need to push it. Once he gets in the final third he needs to stop worrying about maintaining possession and try to make things happen, whether that's playing a riskier pass or beating his man.

[stevep]

not really true statement, even with a home game in the first round by placing 3rd of 4th, based on my estimating of what the betting odds will be
we have about a 33% chance of losing that first game also you do not get the rest factor as you have to play really quickly again in the second round games and you would have to play a far better opponent possibly New York red bulls vs say philadelphia
getting first or second place is really important.


upon calculation i have estimated the probability of reaching the final series in the eastern conference is:
62% if tfc finishes first or second
33% if tfc finishes third

close to double your odds if you finish the season at first or second

so upon further thought finishing first or second is really important
i don't think there is any real benefit to finishing first vs second is there?

[Pookie]

^ is the position of finish the most important variable there (without checking your math)?

Or is the fact that good teams generally finish atop the standings and as a result of being a good team, tend to win some playoff games?

Our situation is that the presumptive MLS MVP is injured. Finishing up a place or two won't change the nature of the squad but losing him would.

[Cashcleaner]

Both teams looked relatively slow and uneasy on the pitch yesterday; but forget about the missed PK opportunity - TFC didn't strike me as a team interested in winning the Supporters Shield. I was probably mostly unimpressed with Bradley, to be honest. Wish Gio was back, but we cant play like a team that won't pick up three points without him.

[ronzilla]

This Giovinco-less team has not looked convincing for the past 3 games with 1 win and 2 draws. That 1 win also came from a gifted blunder from a bottom table team.

Seba holds the key to a deep playoff run. Without hm, this team is sent packing early.

[ronzilla]

Also, a lot of people here giving Bradley some flak. Yeah sure, he had a bad game, but that doesn't sum up his entire season. All players have their days and this was one of Bradleys.

[MightyDM]

Osorio was mostly poor in this game, but he was brilliant on our goal. That's why it's so frustrating to watch him sometimes, he has the ability to be doing that every game, but it's like he's afraid to try to push the game until we really need to push it. Once he gets in the final third he needs to stop worrying about maintaining possession and try to make things happen, whether that's playing a riskier pass or beating his man.

i saw him do that all game. Where he was poor was doing that ( taking risks and trying to beat his man ) was in our end. Vanney will speak to him about that I am sure.

i think they have some selection issues in midfield. Delgado was terrible last game, Johnson this one, and Cheyrou needs to play at the base of the diamond. That's why Wheelers idea about the three five two bears some thought. With a Bradley - Cheyro - Osorio triangle in the middle of the five.

[OgtheDim]

Wheeler said post game that he thinks our best formation is a 3-5-2 with Cheyrou , Bradley in a double pivot in the middle. It is an interesting observation. There is something off right now for sure

That's a 3-4-1-2 that morphs into a 5-2-1-2 as the two wide players are really WB's.

Wheeler has been talking about the 3-5-2 since March. Against a 4-2-3-1 with 2 holding DM's, all that does is spread their 3 more advance mids out. Our issue as others have said is little to no movement off the ball in the pocket in order to break the press. Couple that with nobody willing to pass to the pocket from deep and we don't get the out of the press pass.


Without Seba, I think we should be trying a 4-2-3-1 with Cheyrou/Johnson beside Bradley and Lovitz and Delgado on the outside of Osorio/Chapman.

Hamilton does pretty good for his lack of experience at this level and takes up space and all; but, he doesn't really have to be accounted for by DM's and defensively, that second forward position was not as important as another midfield. Our forwards both came back on wide positions a lot yesterday.

[stevep]

- I took into account the assumed betting odds converted to probabilities if gio is on the team come playoff time
- with the extra game you have to play you could lose that game, that brings the odds down and
yes you would play a worse team with 7 days rest vs either one of the two New Yorks on 3 days rest

i don't want to think about gio not being on the team come playoff time so i never calculated that one.
if we finish 3rd the two new yorks will be 1 and 2

[OgtheDim]

Ya, you see, the idea that all playoff games and scenarios are the same is just...well...wrong.

If we finish 1st, we are pretty much guaranteed to get one of Philly, NER, Montreal or DCU in our first playoff encounter, the second round.

If we finish 2nd, we are likely to face a New York team in the second round (cause nobody is going to win a one off playoff game in Yankee Stadium or Red Bull arena)

Does anybody really want to finish 3rd and go up against Montreal in a one off midweek game? Does anybody think that's a good idea worth resting players for?


No, in any endeavour you want the best possible scenario. And in our case, that's finish first and avoid the tougher teams as long as possible.

Rest is for Christmas.

[MightyDM]

That's a 3-4-1-2 that morphs into a 5-2-1-2 as the two wide players are really WB's.

Wheeler has been talking about the 3-5-2 since March. Against a 4-2-3-1 with 2 holding DM's, all that does is spread their 3 more advance mids out. Our issue as others have said is little to no movement off the ball in the pocket in order to break the press. Couple that with nobody willing to pass to the pocket from deep and we don't get the out of the press pass.


Without Seba, I think we should be trying a 4-2-3-1 with Cheyrou/Johnson beside Bradley and Lovitz and Delgado on the outside of Osorio/Chapman.

Hamilton does pretty good for his lack of experience at this level and takes up space and all; but, he doesn't really have to be accounted for by DM's and defensively, that second forward position was not as important as another midfield. Our forwards both came back on wide positions a lot yesterday.

You have a point on this. But with Seba back the front has to be a 2.

i like the 4-2-3-1 with Cheyrou and Bradley. I'd put Lovitz and Johnson or Johnson and Endoh right now outside Oso. We need a bit more movement and pace up there. Stagnant at the moment.

with Seba back, will be quite interesting to see what Vanney does.

[Pookie]

Ya, you see, the idea that all playoff games and scenarios are the same is just...well...wrong.

If we finish 1st, we are pretty much guaranteed to get one of Philly, NER, Montreal or DCU in our first playoff encounter, the second round.

If we finish 2nd, we are likely to face a New York team in the second round (cause nobody is going to win a one off playoff game in Yankee Stadium or Red Bull arena)

Does anybody really want to finish 3rd and go up against Montreal in a one off midweek game? Does anybody think that's a good idea worth resting players for?



Interesting in both your scenarios there is a chance we face Montreal or another low seed. Either as a knockout game or as a home and home.

Would you rather face them with or without Giovinco?




Rest is for Christmas.

It's also good for quadriceps and abductor strains.

[Ivy]

You're a funny dude, Pookie.

[stevep]

Ya, you see, the idea that all playoff games and scenarios are the same is just...well...wrong.

If we finish 1st, we are pretty much guaranteed to get one of Philly, NER, Montreal or DCU in our first playoff encounter, the second round.

If we finish 2nd, we are likely to face a New York team in the second round (cause nobody is going to win a one off playoff game in Yankee Stadium or Red Bull arena)

Does anybody really want to finish 3rd and go up against Montreal in a one off midweek game? Does anybody think that's a good idea worth resting players for?


No, in any endeavour you want the best possible scenario. And in our case, that's finish first and avoid the tougher teams as long as possible.

Rest is for Christmas.

never thought of that regarding 1st vs 2nd place, good one
plus i despise games at yankee stadium

[OgtheDim]

Interesting in both your scenarios there is a chance we face Montreal or another low seed. Either as a knockout game or as a home and home.

Would you rather face them with or without Giovinco?



It's also good for quadriceps and abductor strains.

You were saying these games was basically pretraining for the playoffs. I'm just arguing it ain't like that.

[PAOK17]

Interesting in both your scenarios there is a chance we face Montreal or another low seed. Either as a knockout game or as a home and home.

Would you rather face them with or without Giovinco?



It's also good for quadriceps and abductor strains.
Pookie, no one here is saying that we rush and risk anyone. If Giovinco is fit to play, he plays. If not, he doesn't. I think you need to relax on the hypothetical extreme. Isn't there an international break in a few weeks? And another one during the playoffs? I'm more concerned losing Altidore and Bradley to injury while they play for the US because well it always seems to happen.

What we are saying is that the team is at a disadvantage to finish 3rd to 6th due to having to play an extra game (that could go into extra time) and then playing a tougher team in the following round with short rest. To finish in the top 2, they don't even need to go all out in all of their games. Had they won their last two games, it probably would have already been sealed.

[boozilla]

Playing an extra game may not be a bad thing. Last night, fatigue seemed less of a factor than lack of concentration.
The jets going over was the highlight of the game. The 0:1 was a sweetly chipped ball that Bradley's repeatedly tried and failed at.
While the RBNY tie felt like a win, this game was a bit humbling.

[Blindside16]

ya, you see, the idea that all playoff games and scenarios are the same is just...well...wrong.

If we finish 1st, we are pretty much guaranteed to get one of philly, ner, montreal or dcu in our first playoff encounter, the second round.

If we finish 2nd, we are likely to face a new york team in the second round (cause nobody is going to win a one off playoff game in yankee stadium or red bull arena)

does anybody really want to finish 3rd and go up against montreal in a one off midweek game? Does anybody think that's a good idea worth resting players for?


No, in any endeavour you want the best possible scenario. And in our case, that's finish first and avoid the tougher teams as long as possible.

Rest is for christmas.

this!!! 100%

[Pookie]

Pookie, no one here is saying that we rush and risk anyone. If Giovinco is fit to play, he plays. If not, he doesn't. I think you need to relax on the hypothetical extreme. Isn't there an international break in a few weeks? And another one during the playoffs? I'm more concerned losing Altidore and Bradley to injury while they play for the US because well it always seems to happen.

What we are saying is that the team is at a disadvantage to finish 3rd to 6th due to having to play an extra game (that could go into extra time) and then playing a tougher team in the following round with short rest. To finish in the top 2, they don't even need to go all out in all of their games. Had they won their last two games, it probably would have already been sealed.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting they play games in a style that gives Declan Hill an idea for a new book.

I am saying they simply adopt caution. Rest players who may be on the cusp of over use and don't rush back other guys. Your Bradley and Altidore examples are prime reasons as to why they might want to reduce some minutes in the lead up to the intentional break.

Ironic to me that the fan base generally accepted the concept of resting players when we were chasing Canadian Championships midweek. Quite a few polls suggested people generally agreed with playing non starters and saving up for the playoff push. Yes, winning was nice but not the main goal.

Same story here. Already have the playoffs. Need to be cautious to give the best shot at the Cup.

[OgtheDim]

Reality today would look like this cropped from the MLS website (http://www.mlssoccer.com/standings/scenarios)

http://i.imgur.com/QIzjuFA.png

[Fort York Redcoat]

Just to be clear,...

So to be clear

Do like the playoff system better than the plain old table finish? All your strategy seems to argue for the old NA "sneak into the playoffs and win the league". Is that your personal preference?

[Pookie]

So to be clear

Do like the playoff system better than the plain old table finish? All your strategy seems to argue for the old NA "sneak into the playoffs and win the league". Is that your personal preference?

Of course not.

Hate the playoff system.

But we have a playoff system. So, play to win that.

[C.Ronaldo]

https://twitter.com/WheelerTSN/status/780041992298307584

good angle of the brutal call.

that hustle and pass from Babouli though , WOW!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Of course not.

Hate the playoff system.

But we have a playoff system. So, play to win that.

Yeah.

Sorry to be a bear but I didn't want people to get the wrong idea about you. :)

Here's to earning the bye in the pussplops.

[paul-collins]

https://twitter.com/WheelerTSN/status/780041992298307584

good angle of the brutal call.

that hustle and pass from Babouli though , WOW!!

I don't even think Jozy puts his foot down without help via the foul. I think he was reaching for the ball, not planting for positional advantage.

That video is pretty damning.

[spe18]

Saw high lights of the game and in summary Ismail elfaith or whatever his name is should never ref a game for tfc again. Pure robbery.

This guy should be relegated to usl permanently lIke he was earlier in the season. 100 percent penalty.

Should be noted that Matt Doyle of mlssoccer.com agrees with the ref on the call. He provides his explanation (so of course his POV) towards the end of the clip.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/09/26/did-toronto-montreal-deserve-stoppage-time-pks-instant-replay-week-29?autoplay=true

[MightyDM]

Should be noted that Matt Doyle of mlssoccer.com agrees with the ref on the call. He provides his explanation (so of course his POV) towards the end of the clip.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/09/26/did-toronto-montreal-deserve-stoppage-time-pks-instant-replay-week-29?autoplay=true

I think it's Simon Borg, not Doyle. If you look at the other penalties he would have given, he is totally inconsistent. And his reasoning is wrong: " if you are between a defender and the ball you cannot put your foot down in an effort to play the ball" is his logic. Yay right Borg, keep on trucking.

[Ivy]

If you're between a defender and the ball, you can't put your foot down? Wtf kind of rule is that..? The defender tried to hoof the ball out, but kicked the back of jozy's leg instead. Madness.

[OgtheDim]

Instant replay is Borg. He was turfed of this bit at the beginning of the season for being combative but the segment wasn't getting as many clicks. So he was brought back and has been preening.

[MightyDM]

If you're between a defender and the ball, you can't put your foot down? Wtf kind of rule is that..? The defender tried to hoof the ball out, but kicked the back of jozy's leg instead. Madness.

those weren't the words Borg used - I forget what he said, exactly, but that's what they meant. He essentially said it was a foul on Jozy because Sapong had already decided tokick the ball. So what he was saying was as I said : if you are between a defender and a ball, you cannot put your foot down in an effort to play the ball. It's so obviously nonsensical and shows people are trying to hard to justify the referees call. Plus isn't Sapong an attacker? No wonder he might make a clumsy challenge in the box.

[hulkrogan]

To me it looks like Jozy leaves a foot outside of his body which is what makes it all debatable. If his foot is under him, he's either clearly running, or making a play on the ball. By hanging his foot outside, he could be making the turn (what I believe he was actually doing) or being very sneaky to take away position from the defender.

Although I can see a reason for no PK and a foul on Jozy, I do think Jozy was just setting up to make the turn and should have been awarded the PK.

[spe18]

I think it's Simon Borg, not Doyle. If you look at the other penalties he would have given, he is totally inconsistent. And his reasoning is wrong: " if you are between a defender and the ball you cannot put your foot down in an effort to play the ball" is his logic. Yay right Borg, keep on trucking.
Opps.....I stand corrected then :)