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troy1982
09-07-2016, 12:17 PM
Forbes just elevated their latest MLS valuation.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2016/09/07/major-league-soccers-most-valuable-teams-2016-new-york-orlando-thrive-in-first-seasons&refURL=&referrer=

The average MLS team is now worth $185 million. That’s up 18% over last year, 80% from 2013 and a staggering 400% from our first MLS valuations in 2008, when the average team was worth $37 million. The Seattle Sounders are once again the league’s most valuable franchise, now worth $285 million.

Wagner
09-07-2016, 01:05 PM
Wow.
TFC #4

1) Seattle
2) LA Gals
3) NYCFC
4) Toronto

$245million value. (didn't MLSE buy the franchise for 10 million?)
$30 million in revenue.

amazing if true.

Detroit_TFC
09-07-2016, 01:28 PM
These valuations are just a pile of assumptions. I won't say they are completely made up in someone's head, but close to it. For entertainment purposes only.

But then others cite those numbers and they become a reference item.

The only time I've found operational financial info for teams even remotely trustworthy is in stadium proposal documents.

Pookie
09-07-2016, 01:28 PM
It's pretty impressive.

From a business sense, I wonder what a franchise would be if they didn't have SUM and didn't have the cost control measures in place. When you own a team you essentially own a share in SUM and the league.

Areathrasher
09-07-2016, 01:31 PM
The only time I've found operational financial info for teams even remotely trustworthy is in stadium proposal documents

Ding, Ding, Ding

Detroit_TFC
09-07-2016, 01:32 PM
The interesting point will be once MLS closes expansion (if that ever happens :/) and new ownership groups start buying out old ones. That's what will truly establish franchise values.

I know we have had some ownership transfers over the years but "value" such as it is currently is driven by the expansion fee, not market price.

Detroit_TFC
09-07-2016, 01:33 PM
Ding, Ding, Ding

The many DCU stadium docs has tons of operations figures.

Areathrasher
09-07-2016, 01:37 PM
The many DCU stadium docs has tons of operations figures.

Yup, there are a few knocking about if you know where to look and are willing to wade through council PDFs.

jabbronies
09-07-2016, 01:57 PM
I wonder if Toronto could ever be #1

We have the CDN dollar working against us, but are we not are bigger market than Seattle? If we actually started to win and drew 30K + constantly, would that get us there?

I don't really care to be honest. Just curious.

Onyx
09-07-2016, 02:12 PM
Wow.
TFC #4

1) Seattle
2) LA Gals
3) NYCFC
4) Toronto

$245million value. (didn't MLSE buy the franchise for 10 million?)
$30 million in revenue.

amazing if true.

anyone know if their have been any sales or even partial sale of teams in last few years (other than expansion teams) at these numbers.
Only one i recall is chivas and they couldn't find a buyer and shut down the team, i think the league bought it for 60m-70m then resold it to LAFC

Onyx
09-07-2016, 02:33 PM
The only time I've found operational financial info for teams even remotely trustworthy is in stadium proposal documents.

US$25million in expenses to run a MLS franchise (bare bones no DPs). Based on what i read RSL is cheapest run franchise (since SJ got their new park) Run their franchise in US$20-US$25M range at basically break-even (although i would have thought dallas or chicago was cheaper run)

If you have DPs like TFC your add US$19M onto US$25M an you have to cover US$44M in expenses.

If you run the numbers on the revenue side:
27000 per game * C$750 avg season ticket = C$20.2M which is US$15.5M in gate revenue. Thats a lot of money (C$37M) that has to come from beer, popcorn, SUM and sponsorship $

Areathrasher
09-07-2016, 02:48 PM
anyone know if their have been any sales or even partial sale of teams in last few years (other than expansion teams) at these numbers.
Only one i recall is chivas and they couldn't find a buyer and shut down the team, i think the league bought it for 60m-70m then resold it to LAFC

Crew were sold a few years back for $68m. DCU for $57m a year prior to that.

Onyx
09-07-2016, 03:39 PM
Crew were sold a few years back for $68m. DCU for $57m a year prior to that.

thanks. 2013. i believe Columbus deal also included the stadium IIRC

OgtheDim
09-07-2016, 03:46 PM
I wonder if Toronto could ever be #1

We have the CDN dollar working against us, but are we not are bigger market than Seattle? If we actually started to win and drew 30K + constantly, would that get us there?

I don't really care to be honest. Just curious.

Forbes bases a lot of its value on attendance x ticket prices.

i.e. We'll get there when they build that Downsview building for the 2030 World Cup.:)

105
09-07-2016, 04:12 PM
Expansion fees are 100+ million now and are expected to approach 200 million in the next round of expansion. These teams are worth what rich dudes are willing to pay for them.

TFC/Everton
09-07-2016, 05:00 PM
I wonder if Toronto could ever be #1

We have the CDN dollar working against us, but are we not are bigger market than Seattle? If we actually started to win and drew 30K + constantly, would that get us there?

I don't really care to be honest. Just curious.

The CAD will come back eventually. Our currency is not a long term concern, just a short term one.

Can we be number 1? Probably not with the Sounders averaging over 40,000 per game, but we could be number 2. We just have to win an MLS cup.

Playoff revenue and the increased sponsorship that comes with winning could push us up over the $50m USD in annual revenue. The sky truly is the limit with this team.

I can promise you this. When MLSE purchased Toronto FC in 2006 for $10 million they did not project a 2400% increase in value over 10 years. Could we be worth a billion in 10 years? Maybe.

TFC/Everton
09-07-2016, 05:05 PM
Also, Toronto FC is now worth more than 4 NHL teams. This is a big step.

troy1982
09-07-2016, 05:12 PM
Since the expansion fee will be 200 in the next round, these numbers seem very accurate to me. MLS also has more revenue now that most European leagues for example the Dutch league.

All this would not be possible without single entity

greatwhitenorf
09-09-2016, 07:20 PM
The valuations are both interesting and encouraging. But even moreso is the calibre of ownership getting into MLS. Atlanta will bring Atlanta Falcons owner and Home Depot's handiest man, Arthur Blank, into the fold.

NYC's Sheik Mansour, Seattle's Paul Allen and LAG's Phillip Anschutz are among the wealthiest owners anywhere in the world. Red Bull's presence in NY and MLSE with TFC aren't too shabby either. Plenty of hard working multi-millionaires elsewhere(incl. Vcr, Mtl).

Then, we've got lazy rich bastards like Kraft with New England, who also owns the NFL Patriots.

Compare that to the CFL and it's clear that MLS has a far brighter upside than the CFL, where profit margins are uncomfortably thin enough to repel the ambitiously wealthy, especially in the three shared MLS-CFL markets.

Yohan
09-09-2016, 08:44 PM
Whenever I hear someone slagging MLS saying it's shit and it won't last very long, I tell them most MLS teams are owned by billionaires that makes more money than they ever will. What do they see in MLS that they don't.

That usually shuts them up.