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reggie
08-25-2016, 10:49 AM
I think we need a thread on who to watch,listen and read for TFC coverage.if not delete this thread MODS.

Initial B
08-25-2016, 12:39 PM
Someone need to invite Doug Smith to the Supporter's Section this weekend. :)

https://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_smiths_sports_blog/2016/08/i-feel-good-for-those-long-suffering-toronto-fc-supporters.html

Borga
08-25-2016, 12:41 PM
I think we need a thread on who to watch,listen and read for TFC coverage.if not delete this thread MODS.
Would tend to agree, the Argos thread is a bit of kicking the Argos while they're down (deservedly) and a bit of bitching about media coverage of TFC. Should be a separate thread as you have started here.

Borga
08-25-2016, 12:43 PM
Did anyone listen to Joey Vendetta on Fan 590 this morning? He was in for Jeff Blair and during his 8:45 blab with Blundell talked a lot of TFC (wherein Blundell patted himself on the back for always saying TFC deserved more coverage). Interestingly, Vendetta was pimping his TFC talk on his upcoming show more than he was the Pittsburgh Steelers GM and Baltimore Orioles owner he was scheduled to have on.

mistercorporate
08-25-2016, 12:50 PM
A quick google news check an hour after the game showed more than double the usual number of TFC related articles. Hat tip to Kurt Larson of the Sun and his excellent articles and twitter feed for getting this team on everyone's radar, hope he keeps pumping out those articles to get the buzz going. We as fans can also do our part by arriving at the games early to pump up our team, intimidate our opponents and make a tangible difference!

Scotty74
08-25-2016, 01:07 PM
TSN could help here by actually having a pre game show like every other sports team in the city does. And some post game analysis would be nice as well. The coverage right now just sucks

Yohan
08-25-2016, 01:54 PM
TSN could help here by actually having a pre game show like every other sports team in the city does. And some post game analysis would be nice as well. The coverage right now just sucks

it's not worth the money for TSN to spend more time on TFC. the ratings don't justify the time, more importantly ad slots

ou8jonesy
08-25-2016, 01:56 PM
it's not worth the money for TSN to spend more time on TFC. the ratings don't justify the time, more importantly ad slots
As much as I'd like to see more pre and post game stuff you are completely right. Not sure if I saw one ad last night that wasn't a main sponsor of MLS (Audi, Continental Tire - non stop).
That means nobody else is buying spots.

KurtLarSUN
08-25-2016, 03:34 PM
it's not worth the money for TSN to spend more time on TFC. the ratings don't justify the time, more importantly ad slots

This is a very, very bad take. There's a market for winning and excitement and people wanting to be part of something.

And I can tell you, a certain ex-league executive I talk to is very disappointed with how this club is being handled on TV/Radio .

DYNAMO
08-25-2016, 03:38 PM
I think we need a thread on who to watch,listen and read for TFC coverage.if not delete this thread MODS.this thread is a great idea; We need to show support in numbers to those in the media who cover the team and actually care. I personally will not listen to mclown as he disparages many sports including soccer and then babbles on about the business of hockey in arizona for petes sake. that is not entertainment. Make sure you are logged in to kurt larsuns twitter account. He provides valuable information almost everyday.

greatwhitenorf
08-25-2016, 03:46 PM
After seeing TFC's win earn front page coverage in both the Star and Sun's print edition sports sections, I watched the morning sports casts on both TSN and Sportsnet with interest. The story wasn't buried, but naturally took a back seat to the Jays on Sportsnet. You know something is amiss when Sportsnet put up a more informative report than the network who hold Canadian broadcast rights for MLS. Worse, TSN never bothered to use the time in the report to spotlight the upcoming Toronto-Montreal game on Saturday which they are televising.

Is there anything grimmer than listening to Darrel "Grain Silos for Goalposts" Dutchyshyn try to talk soccer? You can't fake it pal. You know nowt about the game and you've bad-mouthed soccer for years before TSN lost the hockey deal and had to scramble other properties on board. He spent as much time seriously intoning the negative side of the largely irrelevant Hope Solo suspension as he did on the TFC game. Bet he enjoyed that, too. Their website has Noel Butler writing columns on English soccer but nothing lately about MLS. Kristian Jack is notably absent from the site.

One gets the impression that TSN took on MLS so they could strategically muffle coverage and manage it in a manner to not outshine the CFL in any way. Yet the three biggest markets in Canada all feature MLS clubs increasingly outdrawing their CFL counterparts. Slowly and steadily whittling away their importance.

CBC's website is also pathetic at covering MLS. You have to really want to find it and when you do, what little there is is lame.

barticusz
08-25-2016, 04:02 PM
I can't believe how atrocious TSN's coverage of local (Canadian) soccer is. Just checking now and TFC doesn't come up until the 9th headline on their site. This, after the club has been on fire, drawing great crowds and sitting first in their conference. Meanwhile the CFL has 5 articles about this?!?!!?!?!? Absolutely horrendous.

I'd love for another network to pick up MLS rights and treat it with some respect. Leave TSN with their CFL and Curling rights, which considering the demographics that likely watch those sports is right on par with TSN's prehistoric attitude towards soccer.

reggie
08-25-2016, 04:06 PM
the fact that TSN didnt send luke or kristian to do the game last night shows they dont care.

mistercorporate
08-25-2016, 04:07 PM
After seeing TFC's win earn front page coverage in both the Star and Sun's print edition sports sections, I watched the morning sports casts on both TSN and Sportsnet with interest. The story wasn't buried, but naturally took a back seat to the Jays on Sportsnet. You know something is amiss when Sportsnet put up a more informative report than the network who hold Canadian broadcast rights for MLS. Worse, TSN never bothered to use the time in the report to spotlight the upcoming Toronto-Montreal game on Saturday which they are televising.

Is there anything grimmer than listening to Darrel "Grain Silos for Goalposts" Dutchyshyn try to talk soccer? You can't fake it pal. You know nowt about the game and you've bad-mouthed soccer for years before TSN lost the hockey deal and had to scramble other properties on board. He spent as much time seriously intoning the negative side of the largely irrelevant Hope Solo suspension as he did on the TFC game. Bet he enjoyed that, too. Their website has Noel Butler writing columns on English soccer but nothing lately about MLS. Kristian Jack is notably absent from the site.

One gets the impression that TSN took on MLS so they could strategically muffle coverage and manage it in a manner to not outshine the CFL in any way. Yet the three biggest markets in Canada all feature MLS clubs increasingly outdrawing their CFL counterparts. Slowly and steadily whittling away their importance.

CBC's website is also pathetic at covering MLS. You have to really want to find it and when you do, what little there is is lame.

I've been wondering the same thing, hope the MLS leadership observes this and insists on better and consistent coverage, the same way they insisted in the US.

Red CB Toronto
08-25-2016, 04:12 PM
Tosaint Ricketts is coming up on Prime Time Sports tonight. At least Jeff Blair in hosting tonight and not Bobcat because if he was the interview would be a joke. Now to be honest is Bob was not on holiday and was there this interview would likely not been booked.

ronzilla
08-25-2016, 04:33 PM
TSN could help here by actually having a pre game show like every other sports team in the city does. And some post game analysis would be nice as well. The coverage right now just sucks

That drives me insane.

This team is worthy of a 30 minute pregame show with in-depth analysis. Instead we gt a crummy 30 second briefing and then goes straight to kick off.

paul-collins
08-25-2016, 05:18 PM
Network doesn't promote show.

Show doesn't get eyeballs.

Network claims show isn't good enough to get eyeballs.

Is that how this works? I'm sure NBC didn't promote Seinfeld at all.

jimiv
08-25-2016, 05:34 PM
Network doesn't promote show.

Show doesn't get eyeballs.

Network claims show isn't good enough to get eyeballs.

Is that how this works? I'm sure NBC didn't promote Seinfeld at all.

you forgot the network that hides show on channel nobody has and compares ratings to show that is on 4 channels included in most cable packages.

OgtheDim
08-25-2016, 06:32 PM
Note

Saturday night game is on 3 TSN channels. Will be a good ratings check.

Detroit_TFC
08-25-2016, 07:03 PM
Wrap around programming is critical for building an audience.

Partially it is on the networks for not seeing that as a necessary part of the coverage but it is also on the league for a) not pushing harder on the networks about the issue and b) not doing it themselves via their own media operations. Could crank out a 30 minutes weekly highlights show that networks could throw into the schedule here and there.

jimiv
08-25-2016, 09:11 PM
Wrap around programming is critical for building an audience.

Partially it is on the networks for not seeing that as a necessary part of the coverage but it is also on the league for a) not pushing harder on the networks about the issue and b) not doing it themselves via their own media operations. Could crank out a 30 minutes weekly highlights show that networks could throw into the schedule here and there.


great idea, they could be used instead of 30 year old Argo games during rain delays.

TFC/Everton
08-25-2016, 09:41 PM
Note

Saturday night game is on 3 TSN channels. Will be a good ratings check.

Plus we are playing the scum from Montreal, so we get the benefit of adding the RDS and TSN ratings together.

With the added media coverage over the last few weeks, I would hope for 300,000 but would be happy with 250,000.

Small steps.

German21
08-25-2016, 10:03 PM
we do have a section for news. that is posted every day with that is found.

Todays News (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?39396-Today-s-News-Thursday-Aug-25)

Onyx
08-26-2016, 12:21 AM
I can't believe how atrocious TSN's coverage of local (Canadian) soccer is. Just checking now and TFC doesn't come up until the 9th headline on their site. This, after the club has been on fire, drawing great crowds and sitting first in their conference. Meanwhile the CFL has 5 articles about this?!?!!?!?!? Absolutely horrendous.

I'd love for another network to pick up MLS rights and treat it with some respect. Leave TSN with their CFL and Curling rights, which considering the demographics that likely watch those sports is right on par with TSN's prehistoric attitude towards soccer.

i don't think there is anyone else. SN treats TFC worst than TSN and walked from the whitecaps due to nhl rights cost cutting.
no other options other than maybe putting the games on leafstv, rogers cable, or even facebook (like CCL games) if TSN walks.

Richard
08-26-2016, 12:31 AM
Its a sad state of affairs when you only have two major sports broadcasters in Canada and both of which don't give a crap about TFC and soccer in general.

If only the CBC had its sports budget increased to what it was a few years ago, maybe then we would have respectable coverage.

greatwhitenorf
08-26-2016, 12:42 AM
CBC did a very effective, even enthusiastic, job covering TFC in the early days. I think there's a lingering bitterness from when they lost the deal. Scott Russell is a soccer enthusiast as is Andi Petrillo. Put Nigel Reed in the play-by-play chair, get Kristian Jack in as analyst. Make Vic Rauter do some heavy lifting with reporting from the stands. It would work well, moreso if they had the other two Canadian teams, which wasn't an option back in the day.

greatwhitenorf
08-26-2016, 12:50 AM
i don't think there is anyone else. SN treats TFC worst than TSN and walked from the whitecaps due to nhl rights cost cutting.
no other options other than maybe putting the games on leafstv, rogers cable, or even facebook (like CCL games) if TSN walks.

If Thursday morning's sportscasts are anything to go by, the opposite is true. TSN had that forkwit farmboy D'urrwood Dutchyshynyn doing the verbals to the highlights and he was out of his league. Gerry Dobson is calling TFC games for SN and, in his final season of broadcasting, is still putting in a workmanlike effort.

Plus, SN has the very talented John Molinaro doing broadcast and writing on their website, where he gets solid play. He and Larson at the Sun are the best we have covering TFC. TSN can't come close to that and they are the principal MLS rights holder in Canada. Pathetic.

Don't think for a second that TSN aren't smelling catfood as far as the CFL goes long term. Bell have tried to prop the CFL up with money and blowjob journalism on their networks (TSN, CTV) or in corporately aligned outlets like the Globe and Mail. And it isn't remotely having the effect it needs to have in Canada's three major markets. They need soccer. Maybe more than they realize.

Onyx
08-26-2016, 01:01 AM
If Thursday morning's sportscasts are anything to go by, the opposite is true. TSN had that forkwit farmboy D'urrwood Dutchyshynyn doing the verbals to the highlights and he was out of his league. Gerry Dobson is calling TFC games for SN and, in his final season of broadcasting, is still putting in a workmanlike effort.

Plus, SN has the very talented John Molinaro doing broadcast and writing on their website, where he gets solid play. He and Larson at the Sun are the best we have covering TFC. TSN can't come close to that and they are the principal MLS rights holder in Canada. Pathetic.

More referring to TV coverage at SN - they stick every game on their worst channel.

I get the feeling the TSN is slowly transitioning to putting all their soccer focus on european rights like NBC did.
We will get more and more of ol' vic because of this

Pookie
08-26-2016, 04:30 AM
I've been wondering the same thing, hope the MLS leadership observes this and insists on better and consistent coverage, the same way they insisted in the US.

The Conspiracy Theory is strong with you two ;)

What possible gain does a media company get by burying one of its properties?

Rogers keeping TFC down to show the Jays? Or TSN trying to keep them under wraps in order not to take away from focus on the Argos?

Sports coverage can coexist. Any shortage of Leafs and Raptors while in season?

TSN doesn't own the Jays. If anything there would be cause for a strategy to prop up something else to take viewers away. Don't forget MLS and CFL seasons start months apart.

It's not covered mainstream because there isn't mainstream demand for it to be covered. It's grown though. There used to be only enough demand for GolTV and The Score.

jimiv
08-26-2016, 05:04 AM
It appears the only real answer is for MLS to stop selling the rights nationally, and sell to local stations, then not black out games on MLS live and make money from your streaming service.

Pookie
08-26-2016, 05:07 AM
^ Wouldn't they make less money with only packaging local deals?

Seems the big carrot in pro sports is a national deal.

OgtheDim
08-26-2016, 06:04 AM
I
Don't think for a second that TSN aren't smelling catfood as far as the CFL goes long term. Bell have tried to prop the CFL up with money and blowjob journalism on their networks (TSN, CTV) or in corporately aligned outlets like the Globe and Mail. ....

The Globe hasn't been owned by Bell for about 7 years.

Oh, and TSN is going to sign up again for MLS. They are just haggling/posturing over price.

We also might be getting vic because Nigel is taking a holiday after Rio.

Initial B
08-26-2016, 06:49 AM
One gets the impression that TSN took on MLS so they could strategically muffle coverage and manage it in a manner to not outshine the CFL in any way. Yet the three biggest markets in Canada all feature MLS clubs increasingly outdrawing their CFL counterparts. Slowly and steadily whittling away their importance.

This got me thinking about the new CPL league that's supposed to be announced sometime after the next CSA meeting this month. Could TSN be downplaying MLS in order to go whole hog on the CPL when it launches? I'm pretty sure TSN is going to be one of the sponsors (controlling interests?) of the new league and they'll need it to fill up space on some of their channels during the summer.

jimiv
08-26-2016, 08:17 AM
^ Wouldn't they make less money with only packaging local deals?

Seems the big carrot in pro sports is a national deal.

As crazy as it sounds the league needs market presence more than National coverage, give a local channel the rights to MLS in the market along with expanded MLSLove and they will build viewership faster than being buried by TSN. How great would a local play by play team be then an obvious Impact fan doing TFC games.

Pookie
08-26-2016, 08:25 AM
As crazy as it sounds the league needs market presence more than National coverage, give a local channel the rights to MLS in the market along with expanded MLSLove and they will build viewership faster than being buried by TSN. How great would a local play by play team be then an obvious Impact fan doing TFC games.

So you think that ratings on something like City TV would be higher than a sports network?

Just don't see it.

Pookie
08-26-2016, 08:26 AM
This got me thinking about the new CPL league that's supposed to be announced sometime after the next CSA meeting this month. Could TSN be downplaying MLS in order to go whole hog on the CPL when it launches? I'm pretty sure TSN is going to be one of the sponsors (controlling interests?) of the new league and they'll need it to fill up space on some of their channels during the summer.

No. Don't think so.

Prof
08-27-2016, 12:18 PM
This is a very, very bad take. There's a market for winning and excitement and people wanting to be part of something.

And I can tell you, a certain ex-league executive I talk to is very disappointed with how this club is being handled on TV/Radio .

There are more Canadians playing soccer than any other sport yet the mainstream media still tries to imply that soccer is a foreign sport. They will do everything to promote more "Canadian" sports but blatantly ridicule, minimize or ignore the top soccer league we have and our teams. This to me is definitely planned and the purpose is to make the "foreigners" adapt to and watch the so called more Canadian sports. Just watch or listen to Bob the snob or any other mainstream wanker to prove my point.

Onyx
08-27-2016, 03:34 PM
As crazy as it sounds the league needs market presence more than National coverage, give a local channel the rights to MLS in the market along with expanded MLSLove and they will build viewership faster than being buried by TSN. How great would a local play by play team be then an obvious Impact fan doing TFC games.

thats what i think they will do. TSN doesn't sound like it's interested in losing money on MLS anymore.
TFC will still be the same due to ownership broadcast obligations -- maybe we get one consistent broadcast team / production shared between networks.
Impact and Whitecaps will probably have to subsidize production costs to stay on TV

C.Ronaldo
08-29-2016, 10:15 AM
There are more Canadians playing soccer than any other sport yet the mainstream media still tries to imply that soccer is a foreign sport. They will do everything to promote more "Canadian" sports but blatantly ridicule, minimize or ignore the top soccer league we have and our teams. This to me is definitely planned and the purpose is to make the "foreigners" adapt to and watch the so called more Canadian sports. Just watch or listen to Bob the snob or any other mainstream wanker to prove my point.

they do the same with cricket, I dont watch/play the sport but I am fully aware of how many do or would if it was on TV. There is not even highlights for cricket world cup.

if you can get into curling, you can get into cricket

Fort York Redcoat
08-29-2016, 10:17 AM
Pretty covered today.

Prof
08-29-2016, 12:56 PM
Pretty covered today.

Yes this is part of the problem. How many times have you heard Habs or Yankees suck at a hockey or baseball game even by little kids and its passed as "all in good fun", but when it happens at a TFC game (albeit a bit graphic) we are treated like Nazis. Instead of focusing on our superstar Giovinco or our first place standing all I've heard today is about that stupid sign. This is all part of the main stream propaganda, portraying soccer fans as young idiot hooligans. Which I am neither.

TFC/Everton
08-29-2016, 01:45 PM
Yes this is part of the problem. How many times have you heard Habs or Yankees suck at a hockey or baseball game even by little kids and its passed as "all in good fun", but when it happens at a TFC game (albeit a bit graphic) we are treated like Nazis. Instead of focusing on our superstar Giovinco or our first place standing all I've heard today is about that stupid sign. This is all part of the main stream propaganda, portraying soccer fans as young idiot hooligans. Which I am neither.

"treated like Nazis..." A bit much.

More like we are treated like conservative politicians. The media don't like TFC or don't understand soccer. Or, in many cases, feel threatened by TFC's rise.

The MSM doesn't like conservatives, so the only stories they really focus on are the negative ones.

OgtheDim
08-29-2016, 02:34 PM
Uh, the Sun published an article on all this and I also am old enough to remember what the Libs thought of the CBC in the Trudeau years soooooooo.....not going with the MSM conspiracy thing.

reggie
08-29-2016, 05:52 PM
wow we made it on 640.(what ever that is)is it safe to bring kids to a tfc game,maybe a tad safer then getting a can of beer on the head from upper deck at a bluejays game.

Brooker
08-29-2016, 08:49 PM
Ignore it. Nobody will remember in a week.

And if they are still upset, they don't matter.

troy1982
08-29-2016, 08:58 PM
wow we made it on 640.(what ever that is)is it safe to bring kids to a tfc game,maybe a tad safer then getting a can of beer on the head from upper deck at a bluejays game.

What did they say

james
08-30-2016, 01:36 AM
I did not see the televised version of Saturday's game, but over the years I have noticed our national anthem and flag displays and hype from the crowd just minutes before the game are skipped on tv and usually doing advertisements at that time and return seconds before kickoff. I don't know if it was showed the tifo we had Saturday but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't shown. Yet things like blue jays, raptors or Leafs die for a chance to air things like "some" fans actually singing the national anthem or a flag being passed around (made by the club obviously) and then air the shit out of it and put on commercial advertisements to hype the fans up. We do that game in and game out on our own and are often ignored.....oh well I'm fine with other sports fans seeing a maple leaf flag passed around by fans and thinking it was crazy and unique and all, I just thot it's a missed chance by the media to show passion the TFC fans have like they try to do for the other sports. Well they probably show some passion and hype about TFC fans, but not at the same level as some other teams in this city, yet TFC actually have the most atmosphere.

james
08-30-2016, 02:03 AM
After seeing TFC's win earn front page coverage in both the Star and Sun's print edition sports sections, I watched the morning sports casts on both TSN and Sportsnet with interest. The story wasn't buried, but naturally took a back seat to the Jays on Sportsnet. You know something is amiss when Sportsnet put up a more informative report than the network who hold Canadian broadcast rights for MLS. Worse, TSN never bothered to use the time in the report to spotlight the upcoming Toronto-Montreal game on Saturday which they are televising.

Is there anything grimmer than listening to Darrel "Grain Silos for Goalposts" Dutchyshyn try to talk soccer? You can't fake it pal. You know nowt about the game and you've bad-mouthed soccer for years before TSN lost the hockey deal and had to scramble other properties on board. He spent as much time seriously intoning the negative side of the largely irrelevant Hope Solo suspension as he did on the TFC game. Bet he enjoyed that, too. Their website has Noel Butler writing columns on English soccer but nothing lately about MLS. Kristian Jack is notably absent from the site.

One gets the impression that TSN took on MLS so they could strategically muffle coverage and manage it in a manner to not outshine the CFL in any way. Yet the three biggest markets in Canada all feature MLS clubs increasingly outdrawing their CFL counterparts. Slowly and steadily whittling away their importance.

CBC's website is also pathetic at covering MLS. You have to really want to find it and when you do, what little there is is lame.
Well we out draw attendance at the box office over CFL, but our tv ratings are shit compared to CFL sadly. Many of the soccer fans in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver Soccer fans in these cities that attend MLS games are hardcore and try to attend as many games as can but often don't watch games on TV, often not even watch when they are away. When at home they rather watch premiership, or champions league. MLS It's more of a being in the atmosphere, have to see it live type thing, something that has lost meaning in other sports. Many CFL fans are happy to sit at home and watch games, even if it might not be there team playing, maybe attend 1 game a year type thing for many.

Pookie
08-30-2016, 05:51 AM
From a media standpoint,TSN is currently running their "soccer lives here"
promotions that tie the EPL, MLS and National games together in a pretty hyped up montage.

Seems pretty well focused on the "soccer demographic" for fans that play the game and are fans of at least one of the league's featured.

For those that don't think media coverage of MLS is strong, how would you alter this campaign?

GuelphStorm2007
08-30-2016, 06:49 AM
Who care's what the like of Dave Perkins, and that other Moose Face Bob Mckowen say about TFC . Why do we need there approval.. We have the best fans , the best atmosphere at our games . I believe we are averaging approx. 25 to 30 thousand a game. we are beating the Argos in that regard. If the Blue Jays were not having year they having (And I hope they continue there success) Maybe we would be getting a bit more respect. Soccer is growing I this country with the success of Womens team in Rio is going to help. Hopefully there success will rub off onto Benito Floro's Men this week in Honduras. At the same time most of the Mainstream sports journos here are just plain old Leaf and Blue Jay apoligists.

GuelphStorm2007
08-30-2016, 06:51 AM
Ignore it. Nobody will remember in a week.

And if they are still upset, they don't matter.
Amen to that:hump:

paul-collins
08-30-2016, 08:08 AM
Who care's what the like of Dave Perkins, and that other Moose Face Bob Mckowen say about TFC . Why do we need there approval..

(snip)

At the same time most of the Mainstream sports journos here are just plain old Leaf and Blue Jay apoligists.
I agree that we don't need their approval specifically - but they occupy so much of the limited bandwidth, that we need their producers' attention.

MLS needs airtime, and in order to get it, we have to get past the gatekeepers, and Moose Face is one of those gatekeepers.

Canary10
08-30-2016, 09:05 AM
Who actually listens to radio sports shows? For that matter, who watches TSN highlight shows? I've never listened to sports radio ever, even when I drove to work and back every day. And it's been years now since I've watched sports highlights. I think TSN had the old scoreboard logo the last time I watched Sportscentre or whatever it's called. I know I'm probably not the average, but the influence of these shows in providing sports information is declining. As is the influence of newspapers. I wouldn't get too hung up on how much coverage we get.

Fort York Redcoat
08-30-2016, 09:09 AM
Who actually listens to radio sports shows? For that matter, who watches TSN highlight shows? I've never listened to sports radio ever, even when I drove to work and back every day. And it's been years now since I've watched sports highlights. I think TSN had the old scoreboard logo the last time I watched Sportscentre or whatever it's called. I know I'm probably not the average, but the influence of these shows in providing sports information is declining. As is the influence of newspapers. I wouldn't get too hung up on how much coverage we get.

People that don't usually commit to one sport and feel the need to keep up on all of them. Sometimes just for water cooler talk.

Pookie
08-30-2016, 09:15 AM
I watch the highlight shows. Not every day mind you but seeing big plays (or misplays) or what happened in west coast games that influence the pennant race are just a few of the reasons that I would watch.

backbeat
08-30-2016, 09:18 AM
there has to be a viewer/listenership that justifies a business case - they don't exist simply on hot air, as it were....

Canary10
08-30-2016, 09:22 AM
I watch the highlight shows. Not every day mind you but seeing big plays (or misplays) or what happened in west coast games that influence the pennant race are just a few of the reasons that I would watch.

I really stopped since Twitter. I get links to basically anything I'm interested in in my newsfeed and watch it on my phone. Wonder what the ratings for those shows are now compared to say 10 years ago?

Canary10
08-30-2016, 09:25 AM
there has to be a viewer/listenership that justifies a business case - they don't exist simply on hot air, as it were....

The Toronto Star is losing massive amounts of money. They still have readership and ad dollars, but they are pretty much fighting for their existence. Not sure how television is doing in comparison, but it must be tough. Also a lot of ad buyers, particularly in sports, are going more peer to peer in their advertising dollars.

Pookie
08-30-2016, 02:48 PM
I really stopped since Twitter. I get links to basically anything I'm interested in in my newsfeed and watch it on my phone. Wonder what the ratings for those shows are now compared to say 10 years ago?

I can see that for some but watching things on my phone just isn't fun.

In my 40's and I've got bifocals now. The idea of watching something on a 5" screen vs my 56" screen is a non starter.

OgtheDim
08-30-2016, 03:05 PM
TSN and/or Blue Jays baseball has become the go to wallpaper TV for those tired of having CP24 on all day long. And that Sportscentre pretty much runs all day long.

I don't get Sports Talk Radio unless its specific to a sport.

Canary10
08-30-2016, 03:10 PM
I can see that for some but watching things on my phone just isn't fun.

In my 40's and I've got bifocals now. The idea of watching something on a 5" screen vs my 56" screen is a non starter.

Umm, we're the same age. :)

C.Ronaldo
08-30-2016, 03:27 PM
I can see that for some but watching things on my phone just isn't fun.

In my 40's and I've got bifocals now. The idea of watching something on a 5" screen vs my 56" screen is a non starter.

if u can get it on ur phone, u can get it on tv.

i just shoot it over to chromecast

Pookie
08-30-2016, 03:39 PM
if u can get it on ur phone, u can get it on tv.

i just shoot it over to chromecast

Why pay for data charges when I can just turn on the tv?

(I know the whole cord cutting debate but I like live sports and I won't get them illegally so that ties me to cable)

C.Ronaldo
08-30-2016, 03:41 PM
Why pay for data charges when I can just turn on the tv?

(I know the whole cord cutting debate but I like live sports and I won't get them illegally so that ties me to cable)

i meant for highlights and sports recap (and im on wifi which is pretty much unlimited with Teksavvy)

Pookie
08-30-2016, 03:42 PM
Umm, we're the same age. :)

Have you got bifocals too?

I remember the first week I had them. Had to give a presentation on stage at a sales meeting and bloody well tripped up the stairs on the way to the podium.

Can't wait for prostrate complications.

Canary10
08-30-2016, 03:49 PM
Have you got bifocals too?

I remember the first week I had them. Had to give a presentation on stage at a sales meeting and bloody well tripped up the stairs on the way to the podium.

Can't wait for prostrate complications.

Ha. No bifocals but I am pretty much blind.

paul-collins
08-31-2016, 07:55 AM
Kurt's advocacy and TFC's winning ways are starting to bubble to the top - the Globe had a story on the front page of the sports section on TFC today.

Despite leading the East, Toronto FC has ‘a lot more to prove’

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/despite-leading-the-east-toronto-fc-has-a-lot-to-prove/article31626909/

GuelphStorm2007
08-31-2016, 08:38 AM
We got to give credit to guys like John Molinaro, and Kurtis Larsen for trying to make TFC crediabile here in Toronto.

GuelphStorm2007
08-31-2016, 11:09 AM
Kurt's advocacy and TFC's winning ways are starting to bubble to the top - the Globe had a story on the front page of the sports section on TFC today.

Despite leading the East, Toronto FC has ‘a lot more to prove’

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/despite-leading-the-east-toronto-fc-has-a-lot-to-prove/article31626909/

That's awesome

Red CB Toronto
08-31-2016, 11:28 AM
Well it's been a while but the Reds registered a top 20 rating this past weekend, with 116,000 viewers for the Montreal game. While not great, still a big improvement. Still a little thrown off by be fact it got beat by a bunch of out of market baseball games but hey it is what it is. On the other hand the Jays are the darling with over 1.4M for three straight days vs the lowly Twins.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--no-post-olympics-slump-for-jays-or-cfl-224012426.html

GuelphStorm2007
08-31-2016, 01:00 PM
What gets me Baseball is boring and long, While Soccer is two hours top unless something really strange happens. Yet The Anti Soccer crowd still say Soccer is boring. and still. Soccer is always moving while Baseball has many stops. Screw them

Canary10
08-31-2016, 01:06 PM
What gets me Baseball is boring and long, While Soccer is two hours top unless something really strange happens. Yet The Anti Soccer crowd still say Soccer is boring. and still. Soccer is always moving while Baseball has many stops. Screw them
http://cloudfront.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/i3OtXsk.png

Richard
08-31-2016, 01:23 PM
What gets me Baseball is boring and long, While Soccer is two hours top unless something really strange happens. Yet The Anti Soccer crowd still say Soccer is boring. and still. Soccer is always moving while Baseball has many stops. Screw them

I don't like giving face palms to comments but seriously. :facepalm:

Its all perception, just because the outfielders are not moving all the time does not mean there is literally nothing going on. When a pitcher is on the mound there is always something going on.

You find baseball boring, that is ok, but please stop generalizing.

I also wouldn't worry about the Anti-Soccer crowd as its a lost cause, in a sense you are doing the same as them towards Baseball.

Canary10
08-31-2016, 01:37 PM
Sport
Clock Duration
Amt of Action
% of Action
Amt of Commercial Time
Est # of 30-second commercials
# of commercials/hour


Baseball
2hrs 56mins
17mins, 58secs
10.21%
42.68
85
29

OgtheDim
08-31-2016, 01:55 PM
Baseball is a leisurely sport you can dip in and out of when action occurs.

Gridiron is an event thing where you wait in between things happening - on TV its all about the analysis and the hype.

Bball is kinda the same as you wait for the offence to do something while the clock counts down.

Soccer requires concentration (but the pass it around the back era of the 80's and 90's really wasn't fun to watch much of the time). Its really a much better game to watch at the stadium.

Pookie
08-31-2016, 02:32 PM
I don't think this is a soccer v baseball or other sport debate. You have to be clear to differentiate between soccer leagues and the teams involved.

The World Cup has no shortage of viewers in Canada. The EPL does really well for its early morning time slots (when a number of Canadians are at hockey rinks).

But MLS is boring to watch and it isn't a top flight league. So it suffers and is somewhat confined to its followers, unable to expand. The "boring" comment you know to be true as we know that hardly anyone will watch the MLS Playoffs if our team isn't involved. And that's true in every MLS city.

And the missing "top flight" moniker hurts it even more when we get into Concacaf ratings. By and large, general public doesn't care.

It's not that soccer is boring or baseball is dull. It's that it's MLB vs MLS. MLB is the big time and MLS isn't. It's mainstream vs fringe. And in the ratings game, mainstream wins. Always.

OgtheDim
08-31-2016, 02:51 PM
I don't think this is a soccer v baseball or other sport debate. You have to be clear to differentiate between soccer leagues and the teams involved.

The World Cup has no shortage of viewers in Canada. The EPL does really well for its early morning time slots (when a number of Canadians are at hockey rinks).

But MLS is boring to watch ....

For the Eurosnob, sure. But they didn't watch Leicster vs Swansea so what do they know.

Look, MLS ain't Barca vs. Real or Spurs vs. Liverpool. But MLS is pretty fast paced and vigorous. Technical qualities? Not so good. Defences? Pretty poor. Attacking? Interesting stuff most of the time.

For sporting enjoyment on TV, I put it up there with mid table Seria A & Bundesliga games and in with the Championship Level England. (But only because I was watching Div 1 English style 30 years ago when it first showed up).

I agree its not mainstream.

BUT, what it does have in the Canadian teams is 3 really really charged groups of supporters who provide a good background to what is going on.

Pookie
08-31-2016, 02:56 PM
For the Eurosnob, sure. But they didn't watch Leicster vs Swansea so what do they know.

Look, MLS ain't Barca vs. Real or Spurs vs. Liverpool. But MLS is pretty fast paced and vigorous. Technical qualities? Not so good. Defences? Pretty poor. Attacking? Interesting stuff most of the time.

For sporting enjoyment on TV, I put it up there with mid table Seria A & Bundesliga games and in with the Championship Level England. (But only because I was watching Div 1 English style 30 years ago when it first showed up).

I agree its not mainstream.

BUT, what it does have in the Canadian teams is 3 really really charged groups of supporters who provide a good background to what is going on.

It absolutely has that. And to be a part of it was something special for me.

It's just that the charged groups aren't that big relative to the other Canadian sports.

__wowza
09-01-2016, 01:15 AM
Baseball is a leisurely sport you can dip in and out of when action occurs.

Gridiron is an event thing where you wait in between things happening - on TV its all about the analysis and the hype.

Bball is kinda the same as you wait for the offence to do something while the clock counts down.

Soccer requires concentration (but the pass it around the back era of the 80's and 90's really wasn't fun to watch much of the time). Its really a much better game to watch at the stadium.

this. i know a lot of people who watch football who say that they don't mind breaks or commercials because it gives them the chance to talk with their friends, or dick around on their phones. these sports (with the exception of basketball) aren't really ones that you have to be glued to the TV for extended periods of time.

TFC Tifoso
09-01-2016, 08:36 AM
this. i know a lot of people who watch football who say that they don't mind breaks or commercials because it gives them the chance to talk with their friends, or dick around on their phones. these sports (with the exception of basketball) aren't really ones that you have to be glued to the TV for extended periods of time.

Football on TV to me is not meant to be a game that is watched straight through.
But its perfect for people in fantasy leagues.
I've been in 2 leagues for years, and its awesome to zip channel to channel on Sundays to watch my players on NFL Sunday Ticket.

Canary10
09-01-2016, 08:59 AM
For the Eurosnob, sure. But they didn't watch Leicster vs Swansea so what do they know.

Look, MLS ain't Barca vs. Real or Spurs vs. Liverpool. But MLS is pretty fast paced and vigorous. Technical qualities? Not so good. Defences? Pretty poor. Attacking? Interesting stuff most of the time.

For sporting enjoyment on TV, I put it up there with mid table Seria A & Bundesliga games and in with the Championship Level England. (But only because I was watching Div 1 English style 30 years ago when it first showed up).

I agree its not mainstream.

BUT, what it does have in the Canadian teams is 3 really really charged groups of supporters who provide a good background to what is going on.

I find MLS really slow paced, and that's actually my main problem trying to get interested watching more games on TV. I agree they are fast players, but player speed isn't what creates the speed of the game, it's the speed of ball movement. Watch a counter in MLS compared to EPL. Substantially quicker in EPL.

Canary10
09-01-2016, 09:01 AM
this. i know a lot of people who watch football who say that they don't mind breaks or commercials because it gives them the chance to talk with their friends, or dick around on their phones. these sports (with the exception of basketball) aren't really ones that you have to be glued to the TV for extended periods of time.

The commercials really kill the live experience. The one Argos game I went to, I could not believe how long players stand around doing absolutely nothing waiting for the commercial breaks. It's excruciating.

Derko
09-01-2016, 09:33 AM
The commercials really kill the live experience. The one Argos game I went to, I could not believe how long players stand around doing absolutely nothing waiting for the commercial breaks. It's excruciating.


^This^

C.Ronaldo
09-01-2016, 10:01 AM
What gets me Baseball is boring and long, While Soccer is two hours top unless something really strange happens. Yet The Anti Soccer crowd still say Soccer is boring. and still. Soccer is always moving while Baseball has many stops. Screw them

you can pop in and watch baseball at anytime, which is probably what happens. its often background noise. you can just review stats to recap the game

Soccer needs to be paid attention to, stats wont tell you much. you can win 2-0 with 25% possession while a man down.

C.Ronaldo
09-01-2016, 10:03 AM
Baseball is a leisurely sport you can dip in and out of when action occurs.

Gridiron is an event thing where you wait in between things happening - on TV its all about the analysis and the hype.

Bball is kinda the same as you wait for the offence to do something while the clock counts down.

Soccer requires concentration (but the pass it around the back era of the 80's and 90's really wasn't fun to watch much of the time). Its really a much better game to watch at the stadium.

bingo

C.Ronaldo
09-01-2016, 10:05 AM
The commercials really kill the live experience. The one Argos game I went to, I could not believe how long players stand around doing absolutely nothing waiting for the commercial breaks. It's excruciating.

i hate that as well for live basketball. tv should never be allowed to change the game. increased resting time alters the outcome of games

Soccer Mum
09-01-2016, 02:10 PM
Soccer is the best

Redcoe15
09-01-2016, 05:00 PM
If you have a PVR, you can practically pause any baseball and (gridiron) football game for any length of time, then play it and go through every action at 30 second fast forwards. With its non stop action, you really can't do that with soccer.

SoccMan2
09-01-2016, 05:04 PM
The beauty of soccer for me , look at it this way, the glamour position in American Football , the position every American kid wants to play is quarterback, well in soccer every time a player has the ball he is a quarterback , you have 10 options in soccer everytime a player has the ball actually 11 options if you include going for goal as an option too, therefore, in soccer every player can be a quarterback when you get the ball, what other sport gives a player so many options when they get the ball, makes soccer the beautiful game it is and the best sport on the planet hands down.

paul-collins
09-01-2016, 08:20 PM
If you have a PVR, you can practically pause any baseball and (gridiron) football game for any length of time, then play it and go through every action at 30 second fast forwards. With its non stop action, you really can't do that with soccer.
In fact, I really enjoy the Blue Jays in 30 telecasts for exactly that reason.

PAOK17
09-01-2016, 09:01 PM
For the Eurosnob, sure. But they didn't watch Leicster vs Swansea so what do they know.

Look, MLS ain't Barca vs. Real or Spurs vs. Liverpool. But MLS is pretty fast paced and vigorous. Technical qualities? Not so good. Defences? Pretty poor. Attacking? Interesting stuff most of the time.

For sporting enjoyment on TV, I put it up there with mid table Seria A & Bundesliga games and in with the Championship Level England. (But only because I was watching Div 1 English style 30 years ago when it first showed up).

I agree its not mainstream.

BUT, what it does have in the Canadian teams is 3 really really charged groups of supporters who provide a good background to what is going on.

I totally agree here. I think if you're a fan of teams in Europe's smaller leagues (such as Greece, Poland, Ukraine, Turkey, etc) you tend to have more realistic expectations of MLS. If you're used to always watching EPL, La Liga, and Serie A, then yeah, you might be disappointed with the quality. I have watched Greek soccer for slightly longer than MLS, and I have to tell you, there is far more up side in MLS. Average attendance is higher in MLS, and MLS stadiums and pitches tend to be better as well. It won't be long before MLS is better than leagues 10-20 in Europe (if not already better).

__wowza
09-01-2016, 10:26 PM
The commercials really kill the live experience. The one Argos game I went to, I could not believe how long players stand around doing absolutely nothing waiting for the commercial breaks. It's excruciating.

took an english friend to a hockey game once and he couldn't believe that they actually took "TV breaks". he was just so gobsmacked. he was like "wait.. so they purposely stop the game so they can play commercials!?"

greatwhitenorf
09-02-2016, 08:45 AM
We took a Scottish visitor to a Leafs game at the ACC.

Arriving home, he was asked what he thought of the game. His reply was, "I went to a multi-media experience and a hockey game broke out."

greatwhitenorf
11-05-2016, 01:07 AM
Rather amusing this week watching mainstream media stars squirm - like overweight 50-somethings trying to do The Time Warp - into awkward roles trying to discuss TFC.

Damien Cox in the Star and, especially 'Richard' Simmons in the Sun and on TSN. Both had columns - not acknowledged on this site - regarding TFC's current situation.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/10/31/tfc-showing-who-bmos-main-tenants-are-cox.html

Cox - an avid TiCats supporter and CFL lover - used a guest column in the Star on Monday to boldly declare the tipping point has been reached and that TFC have inarguably, irreversibly assumed the role as fourth largest franchise in this city. No shit Sherlock. He could have been even more credible by declaring that the Argos are well and truly dead and that soccer is not only here to stay, but only going to get stronger in years to come. But at least he's showing a progressive attitude.

And then we have Simmons clearly trying to carve out some sort of tiny platform whereby he can credibly comment on TFC. Fat chance. But he needs something to talk about because his pom-pom Argo advocacy has utterly, miserably, totally failed.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/10/30/tfc-and-its-fans-produce-a-night-to-remember

On a cringeworthy episode of TSN radio's Breakfast Club, he and CFL barnacle Dave Naylor immediately revert to nibbling former TFC TV presenter Andy Petrillo's toes as they have no clue what to say about soccer. The minute Simmons opens his mouth, his lack of credibility on the subject of soccer is instantly apparent. Unlike Cox, he can't even fake it properly. Naylor is even more bereft and they spend the episode desperately searching for CFL-related reference points to acquire perspective on soccer.

Bruce Arthur basically sits there like a paperweight most of the show waiting for the guy from Blue's Clues to comp him a line. Hopelessly uninformed.

Patient and tolerant throughout this farce, Petrillo is absolutely the business giving solid information to listeners over this cluster of nit-wits.

I can't believe this an indication of how utterly dim the average Canadian sports fan is about soccer? They should re-name TSN's Sunday morning babble fest from The Reporters to Yesterday's Men.

james
11-05-2016, 02:55 AM
took an english friend to a hockey game once and he couldn't believe that they actually took "TV breaks". he was just so gobsmacked. he was like "wait.. so they purposely stop the game so they can play commercials!?"
My brother in law from England said the exact same thing.

james
11-05-2016, 03:04 AM
We took a Scottish visitor to a Leafs game at the ACC.

Arriving home, he was asked what he thought of the game. His reply was, "I went to a multi-media experience and a hockey game broke out."

people in Canada and USA often don't realize how much multi media and entertainment distractions take away from the sport. They often don't know how to attend a sporting event any other way as it is the norm for them, often to Euro sports tho it seems completely bizarre to have so many commercials, scoreboard multi media and other random activities that go on that often have little to do with the sporting game. I'm actually usually to embarrassed to suggest taking family from UK to a sporting event in Toronto other then Toronto FC, which I usually suggest the skill may be like supporting a team in England's League 1 but we usually draw 20k-30k fans, and the atmosphere can be pretty decent, they usually have fun pleasantly surprised about the whole day experience.

paul-collins
11-05-2016, 06:36 AM
David Shoalts sings the praises of the team today.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/strong-management-of-toronto-fc-is-finally-paying-off/article32688791/

I love the ending:


“At TFC, they see the fans and their support. It becomes a destination. Then they see the way Greg Vanney plays soccer, which is an attractive style of soccer, an entertaining style of play. All this drives the team forward.”This was confirmed by Bradley, who said this week TFC’s recent success has brought inquiries from all sorts of acquaintances, including former teammates in Europe.
“The amount of texts and messages I’ve gotten from people I know, friends, other guys around the league, in Europe who are watching our games on TV at the moment and going, basically, ‘Where are you guys playing, what stadium is that?’” Bradley said. “They’re in disbelief about the atmosphere we have and the advantage the fans in this city are giving at the moment. It’s special.”

OgtheDim
11-05-2016, 06:44 AM
Rather amusing this week watching mainstream media stars squirm - like overweight 50-somethings trying to do The Time Warp - into awkward roles trying to discuss TFC.

Damien Cox in the Star and, especially 'Richard' Simmons in the Sun and on TSN. Both had columns - not acknowledged on this site - .


Both of those columns were discussed in various pages on here. Cox in detail, Simmons less so.

I suspect the old guys network media types are waiting for this run to finish so they can go back to all writing the same book, "The Triumph of the Leaf Rookie". They prefer their safe environment where their moral code isn't challenged. Its all very safe and solid and very conservative- this country is just crying out for a Mina Kimes type of sports writer.

Pookie
11-05-2016, 07:30 AM
The thought process behind challenging the character of mainstream journalists that give the team attention at a peak moment in its history is pretty puzzling to say the least.

It would be like a "Support Local Football" movement that finally gets non-regular fans to come out and someone starts a chant to single them out that amounts to "Who the hell are you and where the hell were you? We don't need your bloody support" (doesn't rhyme I know but that's why I'm no longer on songs and chants committee)

Mainstream coverage wanted.
Mainstream coverage achieved.
Mainstream journalists criticized for not being there earlier.
Should totally endear them to ongoing soccer coverage next year when when its game 23 of a regular season. Totally going to do that. Great plan, umm Sherlock was it?

Puzzling.

A different approach would be to say thank you for joining to help support our boys and the club. Appreciate the effort at this exciting time. Please continue.

OgtheDim
11-05-2016, 08:13 AM
I rate sports journalist on quality. There is a distinct lack of journalistic quality in the mainstream general sports columnists. Specific sports columnists tend to be much better.


I stand by my statement on the old boys network.

Read this piece on a couple of NFL players and ask yourself if any Canadian sports journo would have gotten anything close to this. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17201639/seahawks-michael-bennett-patriots-martellus-bennett-vs-everyone

Pookie
11-05-2016, 09:13 AM
So you want mainstream coverage by a mythical new crop of mainstream sports journalists?

GBV
11-05-2016, 09:15 AM
people in Canada and USA often don't realize how much multi media and entertainment distractions take away from the sport. They often don't know how to attend a sporting event any other way as it is the norm for them, often to Euro sports tho it seems completely bizarre to have so many commercials, scoreboard multi media and other random activities that go on that often have little to do with the sporting game. I'm actually usually to embarrassed to suggest taking family from UK to a sporting event in Toronto other then Toronto FC, which I usually suggest the skill may be like supporting a team in England's League 1 but we usually draw 20k-30k fans, and the atmosphere can be pretty decent, they usually have fun pleasantly surprised about the whole day experience.

there was an effort going to switch world cup 1994 (USA) games to four quarters instead of just two halves. so they have more commercial time. embarrassing.

GBV
11-05-2016, 09:19 AM
For the Eurosnob, sure. But they didn't watch Leicster vs Swansea so what do they know.

Look, MLS ain't Barca vs. Real or Spurs vs. Liverpool. But MLS is pretty fast paced and vigorous. Technical qualities? Not so good. Defences? Pretty poor. Attacking? Interesting stuff most of the time.

For sporting enjoyment on TV, I put it up there with mid table Seria A & Bundesliga games and in with the Championship Level England. (But only because I was watching Div 1 English style 30 years ago when it first showed up).

I agree its not mainstream.

BUT, what it does have in the Canadian teams is 3 really really charged groups of supporters who provide a good background to what is going on.

Mid-table Bundy and Serie A v. ........ Championship in England.

HEAD EXPLODES

Red CB Toronto
11-05-2016, 10:44 AM
I rate sports journalist on quality. There is a distinct lack of journalistic quality in the mainstream general sports columnists. Specific sports columnists tend to be much better.


I stand by my statement on the old boys network.

Read this piece on a couple of NFL players and ask yourself if any Canadian sports journo would have gotten anything close to this. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17201639/seahawks-michael-bennett-patriots-martellus-bennett-vs-everyone

Mina Kimes is an example of someone bringing a very detailed investigative background to sports, not being a sports journalist per say. While I tend to not like the comparison of people strictly being American or Canadian I do except the differences in the platforms and the profile they provide on each side of the border. Long form features are a very different beast than anything that mostly appears in a daily newspaper especially in sports. I know there is Sportsnet Magazine but it pails in comparison to the profile that say SI and ESPN The Magazine affords. To be honest I think it would be very hard to attract such a writer as Mina in this country for what is a very polarized sports environment.

OgtheDim
11-05-2016, 10:58 AM
So you want mainstream coverage by a mythical new crop of mainstream sports journalists?

Yes, as has happened in most of the rest of the world.

We get our general sports columnists mostly out of guys who followed local hockey or basketball at the beginning of their careers. They are steeped in the culture of the games they grew up with and can not see beyond that culture to the humans involved and to the essence of games they are uncomfortable with.

I am thankful for people like Molinaro, Riccio and Armstrong (hope she gets a job somewhere) and even Larson who tell it like it is but are attuned to the role of TFC in the game as a whole as enjoyed in this city.

But the mainstream generic sports columnists in this country are REALLY REALLY backward. And I for one am going to call them out for that (in a place they won't see or really care about :) ).

**

Oh, and well said Red CB. The form does make a difference. And Kimes does come from a business journalist background (although her knowledge of the way plays unfold in the NFL is staggering in its detail).

Sportsnet Magazine is folding BTW. So we will be left with 10 paragraph spouting lazy general interest sports columnists who will wax poetic on the code of their sport and the beat guys who toil in the content mines.

Fort York Redcoat
11-05-2016, 01:34 PM
The thought process behind challenging the character of mainstream journalists that give the team attention at a peak moment in its history is pretty puzzling to say the least.

It would be like a "Support Local Football" movement that finally gets non-regular fans to come out and someone starts a chant to single them out that amounts to "Who the hell are you and where the hell were you? We don't need your bloody support" (doesn't rhyme I know but that's why I'm no longer on songs and chants committee)

Mainstream coverage wanted.
Mainstream coverage achieved.
Mainstream journalists criticized for not being there earlier.
Should totally endear them to ongoing soccer coverage next year when when its game 23 of a regular season. Totally going to do that. Great plan, umm Sherlock was it?

Puzzling.

A different approach would be to say thank you for joining to help support our boys and the club. Appreciate the effort at this exciting time. Please continue.

You're puzzled pretty easily, Pook. I love your ongoing stance that such a small number of peeps here may influence mainstream but I'll remind (?to them reading?) that a discussion forum will cover a spectrum of views.

Little surprise that those so entrenched in the game for so long are critical.

Redcoe15
11-06-2016, 10:30 PM
After this weekend, with both Toronto and Montreal meeting up in the MLS Eastern Conference Final, will TSN sit back and go OOOOOHHHHH FUUUUUUUCK!!!!! after deciding not to pick up the option for league rights across Canada starting next year?

mistercorporate
11-06-2016, 10:41 PM
After this weekend, with both Toronto and Montreal meeting up in the MLS Eastern Conference Final, will TSN sit back and go OOOOOHHHHH FUUUUUUUCK!!!!! after deciding not to pick up the option for league rights across Canada starting next year?

I for one don't want them to pick it up!! CBC is the best possible outcome! Our ratings will skyrocket with a regular channel with widespread national coverage! ;)

Auzzy
11-06-2016, 11:58 PM
I would be SO happy if TFC is available on antenna again! Please please CBC! Plus they may stream it for everyone as well.

paul-collins
11-07-2016, 10:07 AM
Is radio coverage of a game new? A friend listened to last night on TSN 1050, I'd never heard of a game broadcast before.

mdc 77
11-07-2016, 10:15 AM
Is radio coverage of a game new? A friend listened to last night on TSN 1050, I'd never heard of a game broadcast before.

They broadcast games all season. Unless there is a rights conflict.

paul-collins
11-07-2016, 10:17 AM
Oh, thanks. Only once had the need and couldn't find it (didn't look hard though) this season. Good to know, though.

reggie
11-07-2016, 12:56 PM
its great getting all the extra coverage,but i still cringe when i hear FC ,the toronto fc,and we are a niche thing.

denime
11-07-2016, 03:28 PM
its great getting all the extra coverage,but i still cringe when i hear FC ,the toronto fc,and we are a niche thing.

Same here, every time I hear FC I ask witch one,get stupid look and question what do I mean by witch one,Toronto of course.:facepalm:

flatpicker
11-07-2016, 03:37 PM
its great getting all the extra coverage,but i still cringe when i hear FC ,the toronto fc,and we are a niche thing.

Yeah, I can't believe that still happens.
Heck, I even get annoyed when they constantly say "Toronto FC" during games.
I mean, why not just say "Toronto"?
Are they afraid we will forget we're watching soccer?

eustacchio
11-07-2016, 03:39 PM
Yeah, I can't believe that still happens.
Heck, I even get annoyed when they constantly say "Toronto FC" during games.
I mean, why not just say "Toronto"?
Are they afraid we will forget we're watching soccer?

Like The Reds? Which Reds? Cincinnatti? :hide:

Canary10
11-07-2016, 03:53 PM
TFC’s stars, notably Sebastian Giovinco, Jozy Altidore and Michael Bradley, all shone brightly on Sunday night in a game that seemed part-brawl at times, giving the team personality to those, like myself, who haven’t watched much before.

I thought the highlighted part of Damien Cox's article was interesting. To him it's a team that literally fights, or verges on fighting, that gives it "personality." How hockey can you get?

Red CB Toronto
11-07-2016, 05:05 PM
For those near the tv during the dinner hour, Mr. Larson will be on the CTV news at 6:50 pm this evening.

Still Kicking
11-07-2016, 05:16 PM
TFC’s stars, notably Sebastian Giovinco, Jozy Altidore and Michael Bradley, all shone brightly on Sunday night in a game that seemed part-brawl at times, giving the team personality to those, like myself, who haven’t watched much before.

I thought the highlighted part of Damien Cox's article was interesting. To him it's a team that literally fights, or verges on fighting, that gives it "personality." How hockey can you get?
So many of the media voices are permanent puckheads. It took them eons to adjust to hoops and the Raptors. Adjust to soccer? I thought that Wileman and Caldwell and KJ did a fine job of covering the game at Yankee Stadium. KJ's interview of Osorio, where Osorio said that having a Canadian team in the Cup final would not be special, it would have to be Toronto to qualify as special, was a highlight. But it is sad that Canadian sports media do not have homegrown voices often (Rauter and Sutton did the Montreal game, but Rauter has been around for eons...)

Red CB Toronto
11-07-2016, 06:55 PM
Loved watching Joe Tilley tonight on the CTV News using the "Bloody Big Deal" slogan to describe the Reds performance last night.

ManUtd4ever
11-07-2016, 07:35 PM
Hell has officially frozen over. Bob McCown not only dedicated a considerable segment of PTS to TFC today, but he was actually genuinely interested in what James Sharman had to say about their progress this season and their success thus far in the playoffs.

greatwhitenorf
11-07-2016, 10:36 PM
Although McCown often presents an antagonistic attitude towards soccer, in private moments he admits to liking Tottenham Hotspur. Not hard core but a casual follower.

Good laugh watching Joe Tilley work the teleprompter for his by-rote recital of facts in his game report. Lance Brown apparently fainted when asked to lead off with TFC coverage.

Fort York Redcoat
11-08-2016, 08:16 AM
Hell has officially frozen over. Bob McCown not only dedicated a considerable segment of PTS to TFC today, but he was actually genuinely interested in what James Sharman had to say about their progress this season and their success thus far in the playoffs.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ca/fe/17/cafe17359138c4e6b0dd7a220435d424.jpg

Auzzy
11-08-2016, 10:36 AM
Some possible good news for a change on the media front:

https://twitter.com/lauraarmy/status/796004097463816196

We shall see, hopefully she will still be on the soccer beat, and will be assigned to cover more games & other footy stories than was often the case. That's a decision their management makes. It was pretty quiet from the Star for long stretches this season, and it was nice to read more from Laura again the the past few weeks.

GBV
11-08-2016, 11:21 AM
Hell has officially frozen over. Bob McCown not only dedicated a considerable segment of PTS to TFC today, but he was actually genuinely interested in what James Sharman had to say about their progress this season and their success thus far in the playoffs.

The guys earlier on the FAN (around 2:30 p.m.) were having a bit of a soccer laugh and playing up their ignorance. Because that's a thing.

One asked why the break is so long between last round and next. Can someone please tell me?

Other responded that they're stretching it out so soccer can be on all the time .... because soccer is on all the time.

Then they were talking about the home date. Oh, it's on a Wednesday? Maybe I will watch because it's not on a football day.

The usual .... knee-slappers, I tell ya.

jabbronies
11-08-2016, 11:48 AM
Funny how things work out.

I think seeing a side-by-side comparison between CFL engagement vs MLS engagement in the same stadium really opened up people's eyes in the sports news world.

Doesn't matter what day of the week, weather conditions, game time - TFC sold out the stadium - whereas with Argos every point was an excuse why the stadium wasn't packed.
There's a shift happening in Toronto sports landscape - I wouldn't be surprised if in 3-5 years we could very well see BMO field be a SSS once again.

This really is MLSE's second chance to make this right and bring soccer to the forefront and solidify itself as the #4 sport in the city.

C.Ronaldo
11-08-2016, 11:53 AM
The guys earlier on the FAN (around 2:30 p.m.) were having a bit of a soccer laugh and playing up their ignorance. Because that's a thing.

One asked why the break is so long between last round and next. Can someone please tell me?

Other responded that they're stretching it out so soccer can be on all the time .... because soccer is on all the time.

Then they were talking about the home date. Oh, it's on a Wednesday? Maybe I will watch because it's not on a football day.

The usual .... knee-slappers, I tell ya.

yah, it is a thing appparently

kinda like when hear ppl call it EYE-talian food , or down south and they call it EYE-raq.

sounding ignorant is cool!

C.Ronaldo
11-08-2016, 11:55 AM
funny how things work out.

I think seeing a side-by-side comparison between cfl engagement vs mls engagement in the same stadium really opened up people's eyes in the sports news world.

Doesn't matter what day of the week, weather conditions, game time - tfc sold out the stadium - whereas with argos every point was an excuse why the stadium wasn't packed.
There's a shift happening in toronto sports landscape - i wouldn't be surprised if in 3-5 years we could very well see bmo field be a sss once again.

This really is mlse's second chance to make this right and bring soccer to the forefront and solidify itself as the #4 sport in the city.

fill in the north!

Fort York Redcoat
11-08-2016, 12:00 PM
The guys earlier on the FAN (around 2:30 p.m.) were having a bit of a soccer laugh and playing up their ignorance. Because that's a thing.

One asked why the break is so long between last round and next. Can someone please tell me?

Other responded that they're stretching it out so soccer can be on all the time .... because soccer is on all the time.

Then they were talking about the home date. Oh, it's on a Wednesday? Maybe I will watch because it's not on a football day.

The usual .... knee-slappers, I tell ya.

HAR!

Not only does almost every other NA sport take most of the calendar year to finish with sparing only 2-3 months off but...

Wednesday WILL be a football day! Get it? Every sporto loves to talk about what to call the sport you kick a ball with your foot. Rrrrrrright?

HAR!

enter John Cleese...

Cashcleaner
11-08-2016, 01:12 PM
I'll be honest, I'm really liking the exposure the club is getting on radio. Greg Vanney and Bez have been making a lot of rounds on the morning sports shows I'll usually listen to coming home from work. Sportscasters who aren't soccer fans are making note of the fact that they're legitimately excited for an MLS Eastern Conference Match.

Sure, there's always gonna be the guys who just won't like the sport and don't care, but I think in general the exposure has been good.

greatwhitenorf
11-09-2016, 09:50 AM
Absolutely, Cashcleaner. It's amusing to watch those who used to snicker at soccer have to deal with presenting positive developments in the game. Especially when it's the fake enthusiasm of TSN's Darrel "grain silos for goalposts" Dutishynyn.

But it's disappointing to see an entity like Sportsnet get lazy and use someone like Michael Grange to write weak material about TFC when they have abundant resources to draw on who know the game intimately. I like Grange's work in hoops and baseball. But his situational report on their website was the first time I've ever seen him write about soccer.

Carter
11-09-2016, 10:06 AM
Absolutely, Cashcleaner. It's amusing to watch those who used to snicker at soccer have to deal with presenting positive developments in the game. Especially when it's the fake enthusiasm of TSN's Darrel "grain silos for goalposts" Dutishynyn.

But it's disappointing to see an entity like Sportsnet get lazy and use someone like Michael Grange to write weak material about TFC when they have abundant resources to draw on who know the game intimately. I like Grange's work in hoops and baseball. But his situational report on their website was the first time I've ever seen him write about soccer.
Pretty sure you mean Darren Dutchyshen or "Dutchy" http://wpmedia.edmontonjournal.com/2008/03/dutchie_2.jpg?quality=55&strip=all&w=260

greatwhitenorf
11-10-2016, 08:52 PM
Yeah, that's the guy. Don't they call him 'Dooshie' for short? Is it true he used to keep a blocking sled as a pet?

Red CB Toronto
11-12-2016, 12:08 PM
Have to say a page has turned, in today's Globe and Mail, the entire inside page was about footy, two TFC articles and one for yesterday's Canada South Korea friendly. You can not get as main stream for the entire country as the Globe. Still does not compare to what we are used to with Kurt, John etc, but still great to see, epsdcially considering there is still over a week until the first leg.

SoccMan2
11-22-2016, 07:02 PM
The sportscaster on the local Toronto CTV channel wow what an idiot, I'm watching the nightly sport cast and you can tell he hated the fact he had to start with a soccer and TFC story about the game tonight just by how quick he was getting through the story and by his body language I think his name is Lance Brown what an idiot, suck it up you soccer hating old fart!

shwade
11-22-2016, 08:26 PM
The sportscaster on the local Toronto CTV channel wow what an idiot, I'm watching the nightly sport cast and you can tell he hated the fact he had to start with a soccer and TFC story about the game tonight just by how quick he was getting through the story and by his body language I think his name is Lance Brown what an idiot, suck it up you soccer hating old fart!

Lance Brown is the fucking worst. He's a complete tool and acts like soccer is the plague that will bring down this country.

mistercorporate
11-22-2016, 08:32 PM
The sportscaster on the local Toronto CTV channel wow what an idiot, I'm watching the nightly sport cast and you can tell he hated the fact he had to start with a soccer and TFC story about the game tonight just by how quick he was getting through the story and by his body language I think his name is Lance Brown what an idiot, suck it up you soccer hating old fart!

He's pushing 60 and from Northern Alberta...deep in the un-globalized sticks. They were probably making fire by rubbing rocks together till recently too. Poor guy!

RealG-TFC
11-22-2016, 08:39 PM
Well this is certainly neat.

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/801228067721060352

Redcoe15
11-22-2016, 08:39 PM
Lance Brown believes the world revolves around hockey, curling, and the CFL. Always has been a douchenozzle.

TheGoodson
11-22-2016, 11:30 PM
Even Damien Cox tweeted about the 2 away goals

Blindside16
11-23-2016, 12:57 AM
Well shit eh

greatwhitenorf
11-24-2016, 03:02 PM
Here's another one of yesterday's men, TSN's Dave Naylor, with a rambling column on why the Grey Cup is such a dud event in Toronto. He blathers away about various reasons and even mentions how the sporting landscape is changing in Toronto.

Not once does acknowledge how this city's demographics have changed in ways that work against the CFL or mention Toronto FC or MLS or the decade-upon-decade growth of soccer consumption in Canada and how that competition is not only eroding the CFL's presence in Toronto, but also in Montreal and Vancouver, the most vital markets in Canada.

Interestingly, though, he suggests that the Grey Cup should not be brought back in Toronto anytime soon. It's hard to imagine one of the frontmen working for the CFL's official broadcast organ being given leave to make such a comment if the league itself wasn't giving it serious thought.

--

There was a time when you could be as sure to have a successful Grey Cup in Toronto as anywhere else in Canada. In fact, the Grey Cup was a virtual staple of the city’s sporting culture for a very long time, with nearly half of the previous 103 editions of the game played right here.

But there’s been an enormous about of change across the Canadian sports landscape over the past three decades and it’s been a while since you could plunk Canadian football’s big showcase down in the Big Smoke with any real degree of certainty that it would sell itself.

Which is why bringing the game back for the third time in 10 years seemed like a risky play from the outset and has proven every bit so.
A lot of this is circumstantial, although when you’re talking about selling Canadian football in Canada’s largest city, it should be understood that the circumstances probably need to be in your favour.

Nine years ago the 2007 Grey Cup game in Toronto was in danger of being a non-sellout until the Saskatchewan Roughriders won the West Division Final and a good part of that province up-and-arrived in Toronto, buying up all remaining tickets and injecting their unique spirit into the party.

Five years later, you had the attraction of it being the 100th Grey Cup game, the Argonauts playing in it and the National Hockey League conveniently shutting itself down in a labour dispute, thus giving allowing the CFL to own more of the spotlight than it would otherwise have garnered.

It would have been a mistake to conclude based on those two events that the Grey Cup in Toronto was something that should be revisited every few years. Although you can certainly understand why the Argos move to BMO Field might have seemed like a perfect opportunity to showcase their new home and drive interest that might help rejuvenate the team.

However, the Argos had a horrendous year on the field and the response to their playing at BMO Field wasn’t near as strong as the team had hoped. Throw in a late start at selling tickets and you had a formula where local enthusiasm for the run-up to the game has been hard to find. There is also the fact that Toronto seems to be going through a degree of big-event fatigue, after back-to-back playoff appearances by the Blue Jays and an extended run to the Eastern Conference finals by the Raptors. The World Cup of Hockey was met with mild enthusiasm and even the World Junior tournament and Maple Leafs centennial outdoor game have been harder sells than expected.

There was of course, a reason the CFL went without staging the game in Toronto between 1992 and 2007. And that was that the 1992 event, featuring a game between Calgary and Winnipeg, did little to excite the local populace and was considered a disappointment.

Like this year, the Argos of 1992 had a dreadful season on the field, while local sports fans turned their attention to other things, such as the Maple Leafs and Blue Jays which were about to embark on their most successful seasons in a generation.

As a result, the 1992 Grey Cup festival went largely unnoticed by the people who live here and the CFL responded, appropriately so, by staying away for a decade-and-a-half.
Thanks to some creative marketing and a late push of ticket-buyers from Ottawa – suddenly the CFL’s most enthusiastic and youngest fan base – this year’s game will be saved the embarrassment of having empty seats on Sunday night.

And the festival of events, frequented by a mass of CFL fans who travel to the game each and every year, will probably be just fine, especially when the folks from the Nation’s Capital hit town this weekend.

But here’s guessing that when all is said and done this week, there’s also going to be a sense that we won’t see the Grey Cup back here anytime soon. That an event that is largely failure-proof in much of the country probably belongs where it is wanted and where it’s going to be celebrated by the local populace just as much as those who hit town for the party.

It has been recognized by everyone that reviving the Argonauts in this city is not going to be an overnight phenomenon, that it’s going to take lots of hard work and commitment to fill their stadium and bring them up to par with support elsewhere around the league.

Hard to think that Canada’s largest party should be back here again before that happens.

Wally
11-24-2016, 03:51 PM
For the life of me I don't understand why a company like Bell has a 1-sport expert host in Dave Naylor hosting a general sports talk show. Often times when the topic of MLS/TFC comes up, his response is to: a) Try to tie in the CFL somehow, b) Barely talk at all (this happens when a soccer expert is on the show) or c) repeatedly state that he doesn't understand the sport. Option B is typically best and is the tactic used by other veterans broadcasters such as Bob McCown.

Still Kicking
11-24-2016, 03:59 PM
It has been recognized by everyone that reviving the Argonauts in this city is not going to be an overnight phenomenon, that it’s going to take lots of hard work and commitment to fill their stadium and bring them up to par with support elsewhere around the league.

Hard to think that Canada’s largest party should be back here again before that happens.

Naylor has to win the award for tunnel vision.
All those paragraphs about Grey Cup and Toronto and nary a mention of TFC, soccer or MLS. The elephant in the room while he wrote this must have been close enough to crush him.

Who does Naylor talk to? Where is he located? Is he aware of anyone in the GTA under the age of 80?
Revive the Argos? Hard work and commitment? Might that involve actually acknowledging the team that is the #1 tenant in this year's Grey Cup stadium?

MartinUtd
11-24-2016, 04:28 PM
I heard that dinosaur Bob McCowen on the radio yesterday giving 15 minutes to the wrongly painted field. Even had on James Sharman who I seem to like less and less the more I hear from him.

Redcoe15
11-24-2016, 08:54 PM
If Jim "Shakey" Hunt were still alive today, he'd probably kill himself at where the status Canadian football is today.

PAOK17
11-24-2016, 10:22 PM
For the life of me I don't understand why a company like Bell has a 1-sport expert host in Dave Naylor hosting a general sports talk show. Often times when the topic of MLS/TFC comes up, his response is to: a) Try to tie in the CFL somehow, b) Barely talk at all (this happens when a soccer expert is on the show) or c) repeatedly state that he doesn't understand the sport. Option B is typically best and is the tactic used by other veterans broadcasters such as Bob McCown. He fails to understand a lot about the sport. Or is it he chooses not to understand? He doesn't understand the 2 legged system (thinks it's confusing/weird). He is very ignorant in his commentary. Thankfully Landsberg calls him out on his closed mind about soccer. Landsberg even once said he couldn't care less what Steve Simmonds thought about TFC (even when it was a positive tweet). But Naylor, as a host of a show with a slogan "Raise your sports IQ" can come off sounding like an idiot when he steps out of his comfort zone. Just the other day he was railing on MLS for the season being too long. While I partially agree, he was making ridiculous comparisons saying MLS was 9 months long and the NHL was 6 months long. Yeah let's include the playoffs for your measurement of the MLS season, and leave out the playoffs from the NHL season that goes into June.

reggie
11-24-2016, 11:44 PM
thank god im sleeping when these horrible morning shows are on?

OgtheDim
11-25-2016, 07:41 AM
Sports radio can kill your brain cells. Pick and choose what you like rather then actually listen to it live.

Sorry Dan Riccio, I like you, but I am not the target market. I am not interested in the Leafs or the Jays or the NFL or the Raptors so 98% of sports radio talk stuff in this city is useless to me.

Fort York Redcoat
11-25-2016, 09:01 AM
Sports radio can kill your brain cells. Pick and choose what you like rather then actually listen to it live.

Sorry Dan Riccio, I like you, but I am not the target market. I am not interested in the Leafs or the Jays or the NFL or the Raptors so 98% of sports radio talk stuff in this city is useless to me.

Agreed. I've been dreading becoming a car commuter again but if I do I'll make sure to just listen to my podcasts with trusted talk on my game. I don't see the "supporting the local guy that needs to appeal to every type of sports fan" as a way to keep my sanity.

When they catch up to my needs when it comes to footie talk I'll listen live. Otherwise, UGH.

cmonyoureds
11-25-2016, 10:04 AM
Agreed. I've been dreading becoming a car commuter again but if I do I'll make sure to just listen to my podcasts with trusted talk on my game. I don't see the "supporting the local guy that needs to appeal to every type of sports fan" as a way to keep my sanity.

When they catch up to my needs when it comes to footie talk I'll listen live. Otherwise, UGH.

As a car commuter from Niagara Falls to Hamilton every day, let me say...................... CD's and downloaded podcasts are the only way you will keep your sanity. Unless you're a "puckhead" or pointy ball fanatic.
Believe me, I've tried them all.

TFC Tifoso
11-25-2016, 10:38 AM
Sports radio can kill your brain cells. Pick and choose what you like rather then actually listen to it live.

Sorry Dan Riccio, I like you, but I am not the target market. I am not interested in the Leafs or the Jays or the NFL or the Raptors so 98% of sports radio talk stuff in this city is useless to me.


Agreed. I've been dreading becoming a car commuter again but if I do I'll make sure to just listen to my podcasts with trusted talk on my game. I don't see the "supporting the local guy that needs to appeal to every type of sports fan" as a way to keep my sanity.

When they catch up to my needs when it comes to footie talk I'll listen live. Otherwise, UGH.


As a car commuter from Niagara Falls to Hamilton every day, let me say...................... CD's and downloaded podcasts are the only way you will keep your sanity. Unless you're a "puckhead" or pointy ball fanatic.
Believe me, I've tried them all.

If its in the budget, buy a satellite radio.....channel 85 SXM FC......24/7 soccer, and there's a great show at 5pm just in time for the drive home called Counter Attack with Eric Wynalda.....most of it is dedicated to MLS.....

or you can ask Santa for one seeing as its the time of year.....

greatwhitenorf
11-25-2016, 11:31 AM
Allow me to report results as a human guinea pig for abandoning sports radio. Bought a new car more than three years ago. The radio antenna was in the windshield. First winter with it, a chunk of ice blew off a transport truck and cracked the windshield, so it was replaced. Somehow, the antenna wasn't connected properly and all I could get clearly was FM radio.

The only thing I found really necessary from AM was traffic updates, easily acquired via smart phone apps or the better staffed FM stations in Toronto. Haven't listened to any sports radio in over two years and don't feel like I've missed a thing. On the other hand, I've listened to a far broader range of music and feel like I'm enjoying driving more than ever.

You don't need some cocooned windbag with a corporate agenda to tell you what to think about sports. That said, satellite radio is a useful option. Best sports radio by a mile is the Original Fan, WFAN 660 out of NYC. Clear channel station that you can easily pick up on conventional radio across eastern North America.

Borga
11-25-2016, 11:39 AM
As much of a wanker Dean Blundell is, I'll give him credit where credit is due, and they rightfully pretty much ignore the CFL. They do spend way too much time talking about how the Jays GM farted and what that means for Edwin Encarnacion, but they do talk about TFC a little bit now, and generally in pretty respectful terms.

reggie
11-25-2016, 12:09 PM
he is a wanker.he had a poll what would be more painful to watch a argo or TFC game,saying that i have not listened to a second of his show and will not.

fergiejr
11-25-2016, 12:20 PM
When Blundell was on the Edge, during the Euro and World Cup times he would complain bitterly about football - the usual complaints about diving, the low scores, etc. He does not like the sport, and if he's talking about it now it just means he is feeling heat to do so. As soon as the season is over, and the bandwagon jumpers are gone he will go back to his regular shtick.

He was the reason why I stopped listening to the Edge.

Red4ever
11-25-2016, 01:29 PM
2 minute chat amd preview looping every hour on ctv news network.

SoccMan2
11-25-2016, 01:42 PM
Soccer has to be the only sport that has so many in the mainstream media that have a hate for it and I'm not just saying hate but it's a crazy big hate like soccer insulted their mother kind of hate it's incredible and there are so many of these soccer haters it seems on mainstream radio and in the general media overall. Here is a quick list of just sports radio guys that fall into the raging hate category. Bob Mckeowan, Blundell, Naylor, Steve Simmons, Andrew Walker , Lance Brown and there are many more it's incredible the hate I can't put the radio on in my car if my 6 year old soccer fanatic nephew is in the car with me and have any of these guys talk crap about the sport he would be traumatized and wonder why they are hating so much in a sport he loves so much lol.

CanadaLFC
11-25-2016, 01:48 PM
Soccer has to be the only sport that has so many in the mainstream media that have a hate for it and I'm not just saying hate but it's a crazy big hate like soccer insulted their mother kind of hate it's incredible and there are so many of these soccer haters it seems on mainstream radio and in the general media overall. Here is a quick list of just sports radio guys that fall into the raging hate category. Bob Mckeowan, Blundell, Naylor, Steve Simmons, Andrew Walker , Lance Brown and there are many more it's incredible the hate I can't put the radio on in my car if my 6 year old soccer fanatic nephew is in the car with me and have any of these guys talk crap about the sport he would be traumatized and wonder why they are hating so much in a sport he loves so much lol.

Yea, it does definitely sound like some go out of their way to hate on soccer. I don't know what it stems from. Is it the dislike/distrust of the old world and the need to do everything in a different way? Do they just see themselves as better because they think soccer is for immigrants and poor people?

Red4ever
11-25-2016, 01:52 PM
It is a generational thing through because the new guys love it.

We probably have to put up with the really insane stuff for 10 more years.

cherono
11-25-2016, 02:09 PM
As a brief aside to the sports radio discussion, it does remind me of an amusing insult I once heard levelled at an acquaintance with a bit of a big mouth and no follow through; "you're AM raido - all talk no rock".
(for example, see: Johnston, Mo - "The Man With The Plan", Toronto FC press, 2007)

Phil
11-25-2016, 03:21 PM
Soccer has to be the only sport that has so many in the mainstream media that have a hate for it and I'm not just saying hate but it's a crazy big hate like soccer insulted their mother kind of hate it's incredible and there are so many of these soccer haters it seems on mainstream radio and in the general media overall. Here is a quick list of just sports radio guys that fall into the raging hate category. Bob Mckeowan, Blundell, Naylor, Steve Simmons, Andrew Walker , Lance Brown and there are many more it's incredible the hate I can't put the radio on in my car if my 6 year old soccer fanatic nephew is in the car with me and have any of these guys talk crap about the sport he would be traumatized and wonder why they are hating so much in a sport he loves so much lol.

Most of these guys are old school Hockey types. Their whole career is built on hockey consumption and soccer threatens that. To me, that's where it comes from.

Oldtimer
11-25-2016, 03:25 PM
It is a generational thing through because the new guys love it.

We probably have to put up with the really insane stuff for 10 more years.

Still, as someone who followed MLS starting in 2005 and went to Toronto Lynx games, the increase in coverage from practically zero to the front page of the news section is amazing to behold.

TFC Tifoso
11-25-2016, 03:32 PM
I look at the journalists' attitudes as similar to when computers began to enter the workforce in the early/mid 90's.....

With the older/close to retiring generation, most hated them, but a few were willing to learn.

The 40 year old crew had to get used to it, because it was going to become a part of things whether they liked it or not.

And nowadays, we can't imagine what it would be like without it.....

greatwhitenorf
11-25-2016, 05:02 PM
Most of these guys are old school Hockey types. Their whole career is built on hockey consumption and soccer threatens that. To me, that's where it comes from.

More than anyone in hockey wants to admit.

I deal with marketing people who direct corporate money into sports-related promotions or ads. They can quote all sorts of numbers and stats. What scares hockey people the most is that, since around 1996-97 when soccer finally equalled hockey in registered participants - just over 500,000 each - hockey has struggled to grow in any significant way, bouncing around the 600,000 mark today. Soccer is about to top the 1 million mark.

But they also look within those overall numbers and see that hockey's male participants declined almost 60,000. Only the steady growth of the women's game has kept hockey's numbers moving upward. But it is the male side of hockey that largely drives commercial revenue.

Soccer enjoys a healthy split between male and female participants and this nation's future population growth strategies all point toward soccer becoming even stronger.

So, yes, there is a real dislike of soccer - a true fear and loathing - since it is beginning to impact where important commercial revenues are directed.

And gridiron football? Not a bright future.

Prof
11-25-2016, 05:34 PM
Yea, it does definitely sound like some go out of their way to hate on soccer. I don't know what it stems from. Is it the dislike/distrust of the old world and the need to do everything in a different way? Do they just see themselves as better because they think soccer is for immigrants and poor people?

It is very simple. INSECURITY.

SoccMan2
11-26-2016, 10:19 AM
I know he has not always been kind to TFC but even when he has written some negative write up on TFC or MLS it's not really been an anti soccer thing because the guy actually likes soccer, anyways he wrote a column in yesterday's Globe and Mail on the Grey Cup the CFL and the Argos and he more or less states that it's time the CFL stop trying to revitalize the CFL and the Argos in Toronto and give it a break. He writes that by bringing the Argos to BMO it just showed even more how bad the Argo situation is by playing in a stadium where the Argos struggle with attendance while TFC more or less packs them in in the same stadium, which he states is an even worse public relations nightmare for them for people to see, anyways it's a very good read if you find it.

ag futbol
11-26-2016, 10:34 AM
^ they definitely have their cheeerleaders. However, that type of story is now sandwiched between a bumbling commissioner who was cornered about CTE the other day and a pizza pizza promotion giving away GC tickets at fire sale prices.

I don't know what they want to do but the new stadium clearly hasn't solved anything.

paul-collins
11-26-2016, 10:42 AM
I know he has not always been kind to TFC but even when he has written some negative write up on TFC or MLS it's not really been an anti soccer thing because the guy actually likes soccer, anyways he wrote a column in yesterday's Globe and Mail on the Grey Cup the CFL and the Argos and he more or less states that it's time the CFL stop trying to revitalize the CFL and the Argos in Toronto and give it a break. He writes that by bringing the Argos to BMO it just showed even more how bad the Argo situation is by playing in a stadium where the Argos struggle with attendance while TFC more or less packs them in in the same stadium, which he states is an even worse public relations nightmare for them for people to see, anyways it's a very good read if you find it.
Are you talking about Cathal Kelly?

SoccMan2
11-26-2016, 12:21 PM
Yes sorry Cathal Kelly forgot to mention who wrote the article in the Globe and Mail I was talking about.

Pookie
11-26-2016, 01:42 PM
There's a serious discussion to be had here if we can set aside the football vs hockey vs soccer my sport is better than your sport debate.

Recent stats Canada data has participation rates amongst youth at:

Soccer: 25%
Swimming: 24%
Hockey: 22%

The challenge for ALL sports is that participation rates are down. Down for adults. Down for kids.

The rising costs of 10 month "Development" programs such as those offered by SAAC or from tthe OPDL likely aren't to do any favours to that for the soccer cohort.

Quite a few kids drop out of the game when they hit high school. Money is a factor. But so is boredom from playing the game non stop in a system that doesn't embrace multi sport athletes. Let's also add in the reality that part time jobs, boyfriends and girlfriends are an important part of character development.

Looking for "growth" in a baby "bust" generation that isn't as likely to be active as their larger baby boomer precursors, seems like a universal challenge.

Maybe it's time to stop thinking of developing the next Crosby or the next Beckham and figure a way to help the main stays of that generation juggle a well rounded life.

OgtheDim
11-26-2016, 02:54 PM
First of all, Cathal Kelley is a lover of his own turn of phrase. We all know this from when he was with the Star. But he even more enjoys a good pile on. The guy prefers to see the bad in sports and writes only about that sort of angle. Its not surprising he would do a bit about the CFL where he says its got no foothold in Toronto.

BUT, more importantly, I reject out of hand his view of what Toronto is. He sees Toronto as cynical hipsters. That is so shallow and, to be frank, lazy journalism.

Me, I see Toronto as open to things but with an understanding that you better bring a decent product that I can enjoy in the midst of my life because I got a lot of choices.

To the media thing - there are younger guys that can't stand soccer either. People in the media who like soccer have indicated as such. Its not a generational thing. This is repeating stuff I've written in here before but here goes why I see this occurs.

There is a crowd of Canadian media people who grew up in smaller towns playing/following hockey and basketball and to a lesser extent baseball who don't see any issues within the sports they grew up with. In Canada, all these sports have strong moral codes of how the game is played, what is accepted and what is not. For some reason, and I still don't get why, when they turn their eyes to soccer they can't get past the diving. This despite that there is acknowledged diving in hockey, bball, football and baseball. But, because these people grew up with those sports, they don't see any issues. There is a deep seated conservatism in much of Canadian sports and its going to take another 30 years to get past that.

I don't see the same problem with how they see soccer in US based media as much. Down there hatred of soccer is more of a virility thing and a patriotism thing. Its seen to be unmanly, vaguely UnAmerican, and not as athletic. Up here, its disliked not because its unmanly, but because it doesn't match a view of who Joe Canadian is. I used to like that guy from the "I AM CANADIAN" ad but the more I see how that has become twisted into a mold that Canadians dare not get out of, the more I can't stand it. We saw this sort of thing at the Vancouver Olympics. "Oh isn't he a great guy, won a medal and chugs a beer!" "Oh look, its Gretzky in a pickup truck" OK, great and all but anything stepping out beyond that stereotype was ruthlessly erased from view.

Now, the Canadian WNT? That is loved with utmost vigour because they all fit the Canadian stereotype of a woman athlete - strong, fiesty, not liking the US and look at those grins. (The paternalism of the CWNT coverage can be sickening at times - just watch and enjoy how they play for God's sake)

But because the MNT has not had any success of note for 30 years, men's soccer in Canada has no local heroes. It should in guys like Will Johnson and Atiba Hutchinson but without success, nobody notices.

paul-collins
11-26-2016, 10:32 PM
The challenge for ALL sports is that participation rates are down. Down for adults. Down for kids.

The rising costs of 10 month "Development" programs such as those offered by SAAC or from tthe OPDL likely aren't to do any favours to that for the soccer cohort.

Quite a few kids drop out of the game when they hit high school. Money is a factor. But so is boredom from playing the game non stop in a system that doesn't embrace multi sport athletes. Let's also add in the reality that part time jobs, boyfriends and girlfriends are an important part of character development.

In a pay to play environment, specialty coaches have every reason to encourage early specialization. It goes against everything LTPD is about, but it is what we have. The amount of specialty coaching opportunities available for hockey and soccer just boggles the mind. And none of it is cheap.

ensco
11-26-2016, 10:50 PM
The whole "the media hate soccer in Canada" bit is overblown.

MLS is a minor league. Canada is a minnow.

When one of those things changes, people will pay attention.

Red CB Toronto
11-26-2016, 11:40 PM
Just enjoy whatever you like and that's it. You don't need others to justify it for you.

greatwhitenorf
11-27-2016, 12:00 AM
And then there's this bit of accompaniment in the Globe and Mail. Not written by Kelly, but by Sean Gordon.


We live in ahistorical times. Thankfully there is photographic proof of the golden age.

It was 1979, and the downtown of a major Canadian city was choked with fans celebrating the Vancouver Whitecaps’ North American Soccer League triumph in the now-defunct Soccer Bowl.

“Five years before, we were playing in front of friends and family, then it was Giants Stadium and 100,000 people in the streets,” said Bob Lenarduzzi, a Canadian soccer great who played in that 2-1 triumph over the Tampa Bay Rowdies.

They were heady times for the beautiful game in North America, Pele and Franz Beckenbauer were winding down their careers with the New York Cosmos. The Toronto Blizzard and the Montreal Manic were filling stadiums. Everything was great, until suddenly it wasn’t.

“Five years later, we were done,” Lenarduzzi said. “It was lightning in a bottle.” There is contemporary evidence of a soccer resurgence in Canada. This time no one is taking anything for granted.

Hockey and baseball may continue to bestride the pro sports landscape, but Major League Soccer is now on a more or less even footing with the CFL. The Canadian MLS markets – Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal – have surpassed our brand of the gridiron game in terms of attendance and fan enthusiasm.

This weekend’s Grey Cup isn’t exactly a tough ticket, in contrast with last Tuesday’s playoff game between the Montreal Impact and Toronto FC. The Impact had little problem selling all 61,004 seats at the decrepit Olympic Stadium.

It would be shock if Toronto’s BMO Field, also the site of the 104th Grey Cup, isn’t packed for the return leg of the final. It’s not likely pizza shop freebies will be required to make it happen.

The renewed interest and spiking viewership surely has to do with recent successes on the field, but there is a trend line, and it favours association football more than the three-down kind. How did this happen?

It’s the antithesis of an overnight success.

Soccer has been the top participation sport in this country for decades (Canada is the among the world’s top 10 in terms of registered players). The challenge has always been to translate that into support for domestic professional teams and the national sides.

The numbers suggest it’s finally happening.

“I think you’re seeing a new generation of fans develop, it’s a younger crowd, a different crowd than hockey or football,” said Peter Montopoli, the general secretary of Canada Soccer, the sport’s national governing body.

Montopoli argues the roots of what we’re seeing today go back to the 2007 FIFA under-20 World Cup – although he wouldn’t quibble with going back a little farther: the 2002 FIFA under-19 women’s world championship, an event that introduced Canada and the world to Christine Sinclair, perhaps the finest player this country has ever produced. The final, held in Edmonton’s Commonwealth Stadium, featured Canada against the United States and attracted nearly 40,000 fans.

The subsequent bid to hold the U-20 World Cup provided the impetus to build BMO Field (Canada Soccer was a key funding partner). The event, which coincided with TFC’s inaugural MLS season, drew 1.2 million people across Canada.

“Without that tournament there’s no stadium,” Montopoli said. “And I don’t know where MLS would be.”

Toronto became the first Canadian MLS expansion team in 2007 – the same year the league instituted a designated-player rule and David Beckham took his talents to the L.A. Galaxy.

It was the culmination of a five-year plan to revive the league, which lost $350-million in its first 10 years of existence and was propped up by NFL owners Lamar Hunt and Robert Kraft, as well as L.A. Kings owner Phil Anschutz (whose longtime protégé, Tim Leiweke, deserves at least some credit for setting TFC up as a powerhouse).

One of the paradoxes of North American soccer development is there are huge numbers of hardcore fans. The difficulty has been to convince those who grew up on a diet of Serie A, the Premiership or the Bundesliga to support the local team.

“Your first club is your first club, and you’ll never change ... the difference is kids today can identify with clubs and teams from this country,” Montopoli said. “Their reference points are Canadian.”

Lenarduzzi, now president of the Whitecaps, said his club has paid particular attention to cultivating the supporter culture that is in some ways unique to soccer, and spends a lot of time tending to the grassroots.

“In the 70s the rallying cry was that soccer was going to be the sport of the 80s and 90s, that it was just going to keep growing on its own. That was a mistake,” Lenarduzzi said. The key contribution of MLS, he continued, has been its “slow-growth” agenda.

Beyond the success of their first teams, Canada’s pro teams are also churning out a new crop of homegrown prospects.

All three MLS clubs have Canadian-born senior players – most also play in the national side – but more than that their academy systems are paying dividends.
Earlier this month Canada Soccer announced a 30-player roster for its 14-and-under Excel program, all but three are on the books with Canadian pro sides (the others are attached to U.S. teams).

Montopoli is fond of saying the development of soccer has involved a four-pronged strategy: participation (such as youth involvement), professionalization (including at the club level), performance (success) and properties.

“If the teams aren’t successful, you’re not generating the interest. Period,” he said. It’s a similar theme to that put forward by Impact head coach Mauro Biello, who suggested before last week’s game that what drives fan interest, beyond big names and glitzy television, is very simple.

“Fans see very ambitious clubs that are committed to doing everything they can to win,” he said. The case for soccer’s surge is not merely anecdotal.

According to Forbes magazine’s most recent valuations, the average MLS club is worth $185-million (U.S.). TFC is worth more like $245-million.

Lower-division clubs such as FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury (run by the same group that owns the CFL’s RedBlacks) don’t operate on quite the same scale, but have built loyal followings and compete in the annual national club competition.

More people are watching soccer on television as well. Canada’s three MLS teams have similar numbers to the NBA’s Toronto Raptors, about 200,000 viewers a game (though the Raptors have more of them).

The audience figures for soccer haven’t yet eclipsed the CFL, whose ratings improved in 2016 but are still lower than 2010. But last week they came close.

According to the overnight Numeris ratings, which are provided by a third party and are not considered final, the viewing audience for last weekend’s CFL’s division finals averaged out at just over 1.2 million, a slight drop over last year.

Last Tuesday’s Impact-TFC tilt had a smaller audience, just over one million; it was nearly double the previous record audience for an MLS playoff game.
On the paid attendance front, MLS gates are increasing while the CFL’s are in steady decline.

This year, the leagues had nearly identical per-game averages (the CFL was slightly above 24,000, MLS was slightly below), but TFC, the Impact and the Whitecaps each out-drew the CFL team in their market.

The two largest crowds for a Canadian sporting event in 2016 were both for soccer – at the Olympic Stadium last week and the 54,798 who watched the men’s World Cup qualifier against Mexico at B.C. Place.

The three Canadian MLS teams turned in the circuit’s largest year-over-year attendance growth and 2016 was a record year for the league, the sixth-largest soccer league in the world by attendance.

Soccer doesn’t yet enjoy the regular television exposure and appointment-viewing that football, hockey and baseball do, but the international calendar, along with the nine-month MLS season, means soccer is seldom far from public view. The past decade has usually featured one or two notable moments a year to keep fans’ attention.

You’ve had Sinclair leading the national women’s team to Olympic medals (bronze in London and Rio, the first podium finishes in a Summer Games team sport in a couple of generations) and a couple of World Cups, and the men’s team playing in international qualifying, or clubs in CONCACAF Champions’ League games – Montreal reached the final in 2015, Vancouver is in the quarter-final stage for 2017.

All that’s missing is the senior men’s team playing in the World Cup for the first time since 1986. After missing out on Russia 2018, Montopoli said they are determined to be in Qatar in 2022.

After that, the aim is to hold the global showcase.

“Canada has hosted every other world soccer event,” he said. “We believe it's our turn."

SoccMan2
11-27-2016, 12:12 AM
What's the problem many are just pointing that soccer for some reason seems to have a diss appropriate number of soccer haters in the mainstream media, and it's pretty evident to see, and alot of these guys seem to go out of there way to slag the sport any chance they get, this is a soccer related forum is it not, so if we can't talk about this on a soccer forum then where can we , nothing to do with justification.

Auzzy
11-27-2016, 12:51 AM
I don't think it's a good idea to post full articles from papers here. Journalism is struggling enough. If we want people to report on footy, let's at least read the stuff on their websites, and give the articles some hits & advertising pennies.

"With MLS numbers rivalling the CFL, Canadian soccer is entering a new era"
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/with-mls-numbers-rivalling-the-cfl-canadian-soccer-is-entering-a-new-era/article33057018/

Oldtimer
11-27-2016, 08:10 AM
I look at the journalists' attitudes as similar to when computers began to enter the workforce in the early/mid 90's.....

With the older/close to retiring generation, most hated them, but a few were willing to learn.

The 40 year old crew had to get used to it, because it was going to become a part of things whether they liked it or not.

And nowadays, we can't imagine what it would be like without it.....

This is a great analogy. My uncle was an engineer and he didn't want to learn CAD, as ridiculous as it seems today.

I have some compassion on the puckheads. Imagine you're a sports journalist covering soccer, not from Indian, Caribbean or British heritage, and five years from now 20/20 cricket takes off in Toronto and you have to write intelligently about that. It would be a challenge. Maybe you would hope it would be short lived. Maybe you would grumble about having to learn the rules.

I have a colleague who is a cricket fan and I struggle to understand that sport even with him explaining it to me! So it's good to understand the puckheads from that perspective. Our day is coming and is almost here. A younger generation of journalists love soccer. A whole two generations have grown up playing the game. Some day soccer will be our #2 sport. MLS will be a top 10 league. That's why MLSE bought in, they knew the demographics and already look like geniuses for having a $10m investment rise to over $200m. That's only the beginning.

TFC Tifoso
11-28-2016, 08:08 AM
This is a great analogy. My uncle was an engineer and he didn't want to learn CAD, as ridiculous as it seems today.

I have some compassion on the puckheads. Imagine you're a sports journalist covering soccer, not from Indian, Caribbean or British heritage, and five years from now 20/20 cricket takes off in Toronto and you have to write intelligently about that. It would be a challenge. Maybe you would hope it would be short lived. Maybe you would grumble about having to learn the rules.

I have a colleague who is a cricket fan and I struggle to understand that sport even with him explaining it to me! So it's good to understand the puckheads from that perspective. Our day is coming and is almost here. A younger generation of journalists love soccer. A whole two generations have grown up playing the game. Some day soccer will be our #2 sport. MLS will be a top 10 league. That's why MLSE bought in, they knew the demographics and already look like geniuses for having a $10m investment rise to over $200m. That's only the beginning.

thanks man! and I get what you mean about your uncle....a lot of the older guys want to see that this "something new" has a bit of staying power before they "waste their time" learning it.

and I agree with the rest....but if you look at the guys who seem to be the ones who will be the next prominent sports figures in the city/country over the years to come - the Tim & Sid types, etc. - those guys are all over soccer and love it, so I think the sport will be in pretty good shape, media wise for the future.

magmadragon
11-28-2016, 08:15 AM
Looks like they are finally ramping up the promos. I lost count of how many times I saw the tv spot during the NFL broadcasts on CTV. Ricketts and Osorio were on BT this morning. TV spot is showing up on CP24 as well.

They were giving these out at Yonge and Dundas outside the subway entrances this morning: http://imgur.com/a/S0TSk

TFC Tifoso
11-28-2016, 01:02 PM
also noticed in the TSN promo for the game that it will be aired on channels 1, 3, 4, & 5......

james
11-28-2016, 03:05 PM
More than anyone in hockey wants to admit.

I deal with marketing people who direct corporate money into sports-related promotions or ads. They can quote all sorts of numbers and stats. What scares hockey people the most is that, since around 1996-97 when soccer finally equalled hockey in registered participants - just over 500,000 each - hockey has struggled to grow in any significant way, bouncing around the 600,000 mark today. Soccer is about to top the 1 million mark.

But they also look within those overall numbers and see that hockey's male participants declined almost 60,000. Only the steady growth of the women's game has kept hockey's numbers moving upward. But it is the male side of hockey that largely drives commercial revenue.

Soccer enjoys a healthy split between male and female participants and this nation's future population growth strategies all point toward soccer becoming even stronger.

So, yes, there is a real dislike of soccer - a true fear and loathing - since it is beginning to impact where important commercial revenues are directed.

And gridiron football? Not a bright future.

NHL in a way is hurting itself. I loved hockey growing up, playing it and whatching it on tv. After I just stopped playing at 18 as I now couldn't keep relying on my dad to pay for it, plus I was more interested in girls and parties then the sport. Add in the NHL strike, I couldn't stand betmen running the league, and the fact that I couldn't even afford to ever go to Leafs games, I felt completely dis connected from the NHL. I then visited family in England attended a couple matches, and wow the atmosphere took me in, I loved the atmosphere. Came back to Toronto and actually did attend a Leafs game as my friend got a pair of free tickets, atmosphere sucked, everyone around me had suits, security even threatened me for being to loud, it sucked. That point I had it , started playing sports again, but it was soccer as me and my friends started our own team for like $200 each vs the $800 we might have paid for hockey (plus much more equipment to pay for). I just haven't cared for the sport in years. NHL also seems to keep disconnecting its self from many fans (in Toronto anyways). I think rules kept changing, Leafs sucking hurt them more. Add in betmans dislike for Canadian market, and then you get things like NHL not going to the future olympics (one last thing in hockey I look forward to).

greatwhitenorf
11-28-2016, 04:20 PM
NHL in a way is hurting itself. I loved hockey growing up, playing it and whatching it on tv. After I just stopped playing at 18 as I now couldn't keep relying on my dad to pay for it, plus I was more interested in girls and parties then the sport. Add in the NHL strike, I couldn't stand betmen running the league, and the fact that I couldn't even afford to ever go to Leafs games, I felt completely dis connected from the NHL. I then visited family in England attended a couple matches, and wow the atmosphere took me in, I loved the atmosphere. Came back to Toronto and actually did attend a Leafs game as my friend got a pair of free tickets, atmosphere sucked, everyone around me had suits, security even threatened me for being to loud, it sucked. That point I had it , started playing sports again, but it was soccer as me and my friends started our own team for like $200 each vs the $800 we might have paid for hockey (plus much more equipment to pay for). I just haven't cared for the sport in years. NHL also seems to keep disconnecting its self from many fans (in Toronto anyways). I think rules kept changing, Leafs sucking hurt them more. Add in betmans dislike for Canadian market, and then you get things like NHL not going to the future olympics (one last thing in hockey I look forward to).

Oh, expect even more blame to be heaped on soccer as hockey in Canada begins to suffer even more losses.

Want an affordable alternative to NHL hockey? Then you might consider watching an OHL junior game with tickets below $25. But you'll have to get well clear of Toronto for that soon.

Mississauga Steelheads at the Hershey Centre are destined to be moving in the next year, probably Stateside. Even sadder, the historic Peterborough Petes franchise is in big financial trouble and will either be sold or folded soon. In Ottawa, the 67's are playing in front of shockingly low numbers - often less than 2,000 - after averaging over 5,000 not that long ago.

That's way down in the grass roots of hockey. Expect even more polarized reaction toward soccer when it migrates upward.

Still chuckling at the horseshit attitude towards soccer overheard at BMO Field on Sunday amongst the Grey Cup media and CFL staff and fans.

Olivier Poulin, the CFL director of communications, is the "Montreal guy" who spouted dog's abuse about the playing surface for Wednesday's game.

paul-collins
11-28-2016, 08:00 PM
Mississauga Steelheads at the Hershey Centre are destined to be moving in the next year, probably Stateside. Even sadder, the historic Peterborough Petes franchise is in big financial trouble and will either be sold or folded soon. In Ottawa, the 67's are playing in front of shockingly low numbers - often less than 2,000 - after averaging over 5,000 not that long ago.

Mississauga has burned through three franchises in the last 20 years, starting with the Don Cherries, then the St Mikes Majors, and now the Steelheads. I think it's too close to the 416. Having the Brampton Battalion so close by surely didn't help.

The Petes are in a decrepit building and are looking for concessions. Probably a good move. What they need is a local version of Jeff Hunt. Right now ownership is looking like Howard Darwin.

Which brings me to the last point - the 67's are averaging 4500 this year, after finally moving back into their home arena at Lansdowne Park. They really were hurt by playing in Kanata while the arena was being rebuilt. But Jeff Hunt will get them back on track.

If you're looking for local affordable hockey, the Marlies are an excellent choice.

Hey, should we talk about Can Am racing now?

boban
11-28-2016, 08:20 PM
Mississauga has burned through three franchises in the last 20 years, starting with the Don Cherries, then the St Mikes Majors, and now the Steelheads. I think it's too close to the 416. Having the Brampton Battalion so close by surely didn't help.

The Petes are in a decrepit building and are looking for concessions. Probably a good move. What they need is a local version of Jeff Hunt. Right now ownership is looking like Howard Darwin.

Which brings me to the last point - the 67's are averaging 4500 this year, after finally moving back into their home arena at Lansdowne Park. They really were hurt by playing in Kanata while the arena was being rebuilt. But Jeff Hunt will get them back on track.

If you're looking for local affordable hockey, the Marlies are an excellent choice.

Hey, should we talk about Can Am racing now?
The people who screwed up Mississauga Ice Dogs are the league officials, no one else.
That was before this decline in hockey the last 6 or so years.

SoccMan2
11-28-2016, 08:46 PM
Hey " greatwhitenorf" can you elaborate a little more on what kind of things you were hearing from these guys at the Grey Cup yesterday and expecially this CFL guy Olivier, this kind of stuff does not surprise be at all not surprising .

CBTFC
11-28-2016, 08:48 PM
I know those in the media would have you believe otherwise, but Toronto is not a hockey city. Is it "Leafs Nation", yeah sure. But it's not a hockey city, and certainly not the proclaimed "centre of the hockey universe", just because the HHOF is here.

PAOK17
11-28-2016, 09:46 PM
I too used to love everything hockey growing up (though I never played it). I was a huge Leafs fan and would never miss a game on tv. I started watching soccer more in high school, but the turning point for me was the NHL lockout. During that year I got more and more into watching my family's favourite club team and noticed the contrast in atmospheres. Also the NHL turned me off, because as I was growing up it was getting more and more gimmicky. I was too young to remember when OT started in the regular season, and was too naive to understand the ridiculousness of 4-on-4 OT hockey with a guaranteed point. But the final nail was the idiotic shootout. Oh and now there are too many shootouts, so the NHL went to 3-on-3 OT.

I came to realize that if you feel the need to constantly change your rules to make it entertaining, then you're doing it wrong.

tfcleeds
11-29-2016, 12:07 AM
Oh, expect even more blame to be heaped on soccer as hockey in Canada begins to suffer even more losses.

Want an affordable alternative to NHL hockey? Then you might consider watching an OHL junior game with tickets below $25. But you'll have to get well clear of Toronto for that soon.

Mississauga Steelheads at the Hershey Centre are destined to be moving in the next year, probably Stateside. Even sadder, the historic Peterborough Petes franchise is in big financial trouble and will either be sold or folded soon. In Ottawa, the 67's are playing in front of shockingly low numbers - often less than 2,000 - after averaging over 5,000 not that long ago.

That's way down in the grass roots of hockey. Expect even more polarized reaction toward soccer when it migrates upward.

Still chuckling at the horseshit attitude towards soccer overheard at BMO Field on Sunday amongst the Grey Cup media and CFL staff and fans.

Olivier Poulin, the CFL director of communications, is the "Montreal guy" who spouted dog's abuse about the playing surface for Wednesday's game.

This is sad if true. While I could care less about NHL hockey, I grew up supporting ohl hockey in Kingston. I want soccer to grow by leaps and bounds in this country, as do most of the people on these boards, but it saddens me to hear that such community icons such as the Petes are struggling. The NHL can piss up a flagpole so far as I'm concerned, and I revel in MLS' growing popularity vis a vis the NHL. But it saddens me to hear some community hockey clubs may be struggling. But that's neither here nor there.

James17930
11-29-2016, 02:13 AM
I too used to love everything hockey growing up (though I never played it). I was a huge Leafs fan and would never miss a game on tv. I started watching soccer more in high school, but the turning point for me was the NHL lockout. During that year I got more and more into watching my family's favourite club team and noticed the contrast in atmospheres. Also the NHL turned me off, because as I was growing up it was getting more and more gimmicky. I was too young to remember when OT started in the regular season, and was too naive to understand the ridiculousness of 4-on-4 OT hockey with a guaranteed point. But the final nail was the idiotic shootout. Oh and now there are too many shootouts, so the NHL went to 3-on-3 OT.

I came to realize that if you feel the need to constantly change your rules to make it entertaining, then you're doing it wrong.

This very closely mimics my experience as well. I used to live-and-breathe the Leafs, but then I started watching the EPL, and then TFC came along, and then I went to a Marlies game (was even in a private suite) and was mind-numbingly bored the entire time at the constant stoppages in play and zero atmosphere.

Now I really only care about TFC, the Raptors, and to a lesser extent the Argos and Rock (the entertainment level of a NLL game is even above that of the NHL).

Plus, the whole 'hockey community' in Canada is starting to come off as the last bastion of the whole WASP-y, pseudo-racist, small-town Canadian culture that I grew up in a can't stand. Give me Toronto and a great multicultural crowd at BMO any day.

boozilla
11-29-2016, 02:51 AM
As the US election proved, the traditional way of news gathering can be pretty stagnant (barfing up Leafs Lunch)
Also, the MLS Cup has never had any real media traction outside of the two competing cities.
Locally, this TFC run has thousands of original long suffering supporters feeling vindicated and stoked. There's actually a pretty good story to be told, beyond highway tolls and Grey Cup half-time shows.

james
11-29-2016, 03:26 AM
I too used to love everything hockey growing up (though I never played it). I was a huge Leafs fan and would never miss a game on tv. I started watching soccer more in high school, but the turning point for me was the NHL lockout. During that year I got more and more into watching my family's favourite club team and noticed the contrast in atmospheres. Also the NHL turned me off, because as I was growing up it was getting more and more gimmicky. I was too young to remember when OT started in the regular season, and was too naive to understand the ridiculousness of 4-on-4 OT hockey with a guaranteed point. But the final nail was the idiotic shootout. Oh and now there are too many shootouts, so the NHL went to 3-on-3 OT.

I came to realize that if you feel the need to constantly change your rules to make it entertaining, then you're doing it wrong.

the rule changes made me also feel like it was gimicky as well. I hated when they added shoot outs. I hated when betman seemed to just care about new random american southern markets, but didn't care about markets like Hamilton, Quebec City or Winnipeg (tho Winnipeg did eventually win a team back). New gimick tournaments like the World Cup this year just keeps making things worse and worse for me, and now NHL discussing cancelling its involvement with the olympics. Add in the fact I realized attending a game involves more commercial breaks and multi media attractions during the game, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

OgtheDim
11-29-2016, 07:04 AM
The full court press yesterday by MLSE on the media was good to see - Osorio was everywhere.

greatwhitenorf
11-29-2016, 04:43 PM
Hey " greatwhitenorf" can you elaborate a little more on what kind of things you were hearing from these guys at the Grey Cup yesterday and expecially this CFL guy Olivier, this kind of stuff does not surprise be at all not surprising .

Him make fun of dat soccer. Dose dere media people laugh wid 'im. Huh Huh Huh. Den dey eat pull pork.

barticusz
11-30-2016, 12:30 AM
Watched the Oilers vs. Leafs game today and TSN's hockey pundits plugged the TFC vs Impact match on multiple times. I was impressed. First time I've seen them do that. Getting some traction during high profile games is great for the clubs.

GabrielHurl
11-30-2016, 07:46 AM
Bill Manning was on with McCown last night - about 32 mins in

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20161129_183921--Prime-Time-Sports---November-29---5pm.mp3

zorsofstesab
11-30-2016, 08:23 AM
so this morning on TSN 1050 Naylor says to Landsberg if TFC win tonight can you name the opponent for the Finals. Landsberg after a few seconds of thinking says Seattle. Naylor says if this was game 7 of hockey finals would you even need a few seconds to respond? His point was that MLS is meaningless to most. Landsberg says to Naylor you hate soccer and have an agenda, you try to diminish MLS while always propping up the CFL. Good on Landsberg. What as ass this Naylor guy is.

Joe Kool
11-30-2016, 08:41 AM
My family listens to CHFI every morning for their Christmas songs. So last week when TFC were playing in Montreal I was listening and the news guy Steve Rogers comes on and talked about the Raptors playing and an upcoming Leafs game but no mention of TFC. I was not really surprised too much since soccer gets the snub alot but for some reason I thought to myself that I should send an email to the station so I did. I didn't expect anything back but yesterday the news guy himself sent me an email apologizing and telling me he has criteria mandated on him to cover certain sports and he only has 60 seconds most days to fit in all the news and all that. I told him us soccer fans are used to the bias for the Leafs/Jays/Raptors but at least it is picking up in some media outlets more these days if not his. I also told him that if the Jays had a playoff game I am sure they would have got a mention so I don't buy all that 60 seconds only stuff because there should have been a mention at least. Anyway, this morning he mentioned the TFC game at the start of his news blurb saying the city would be busy tonight with the game, then he mentioned TFC in his sports segment, then he mentioned TFC again when he did the weather. Put a big smile on my face. Props to CHFI and particularly Steve Rogers for getting back to their listeners and kind of going out of their way to make it up. Let's go Reds!!!

paul-collins
11-30-2016, 08:55 AM
so this morning on TSN 1050 Naylor says to Landsberg if TFC win tonight can you name the opponent for the Finals. Landsberg after a few seconds of thinking says Seattle. Naylor says if this was game 7 of hockey finals would you even need a few seconds to respond? His point was that MLS is meaningless to most. Landsberg says to Naylor you hate soccer and have an agenda, you try to diminish MLS while always propping up the CFL. Good on Landsberg. What as ass this Naylor guy is.
Friday I was walking to Union Station to go home and I saw a gaggle of women, all made up, wearing orange tights and winter coats, with BC Lions luggage (!) and I made the leap to decide they were BC Lions cheerleaders.

(They were rubbernecking and taking pics, it was kind of cute, a real "country mouse" sort of thing, and I remember the doing the same in my teens when I'd come to visit the city.)

I thought, oh yeah, BC Lions are in the Grey Cup this weekend. And moved on.

Who's this Naylor fella?

Fort York Redcoat
11-30-2016, 08:58 AM
so this morning on TSN 1050 Naylor says to Landsberg if TFC win tonight can you name the opponent for the Finals. Landsberg after a few seconds of thinking says Seattle. Naylor says if this was game 7 of hockey finals would you even need a few seconds to respond? His point was that MLS is meaningless to most. Landsberg says to Naylor you hate soccer and have an agenda, you try to diminish MLS while always propping up the CFL. Good on Landsberg. What as ass this Naylor guy is.

Props to Lansberg.

cmonyoureds
11-30-2016, 09:04 AM
Props to Lansberg.

Changed my workday by 2 hours to get to BMO early which is why I heard this exchange.
Landsberg pulled no punches. Had Naylor on the ropes with feeble denials. Also called him out on his CFL bias, big time.
It was awesome.

Oldtimer
11-30-2016, 09:25 AM
My family listens to CHFI every morning for their Christmas songs. So last week when TFC were playing in Montreal I was listening and the news guy Steve Rogers comes on and talked about the Raptors playing and an upcoming Leafs game but no mention of TFC. I was not really surprised too much since soccer gets the snub alot but for some reason I thought to myself that I should send an email to the station so I did. I didn't expect anything back but yesterday the news guy himself sent me an email apologizing and telling me he has criteria mandated on him to cover certain sports and he only has 60 seconds most days to fit in all the news and all that. I told him us soccer fans are used to the bias for the Leafs/Jays/Raptors but at least it is picking up in some media outlets more these days if not his. I also told him that if the Jays had a playoff game I am sure they would have got a mention so I don't buy all that 60 seconds only stuff because there should have been a mention at least. Anyway, this morning he mentioned the TFC game at the start of his news blurb saying the city would be busy tonight with the game, then he mentioned TFC in his sports segment, then he mentioned TFC again when he did the weather. Put a big smile on my face. Props to CHFI and particularly Steve Rogers for getting back to their listeners and kind of going out of their way to make it up. Let's go Reds!!!

Good job!

Be sure to email him thanks, these guys get complaints all the time but a little positivity when they do come through is a good idea.

sn0re
11-30-2016, 09:57 AM
Norm Kelly tweeting about TFC..this is odd because I rarely see him tweet anything TFC

fergiejr
11-30-2016, 09:57 AM
680 this morning did a big spot during the sports and had another spot in the general news at 7:03 after the traffic and weather. The reporter mentioned the possible scenarios where TFC goes through. I almost drove off the road in shock....:rolleyes: 680 have stepped up their game big time this year.

Voodooman
11-30-2016, 09:59 AM
My brother told me that few of his friends at school were mentioning that the mainstream channels like 92.5, 103.5 etc were talking about it even this morning. They were very confused by the away goals rule, which was most of the discussion but it was there!

Joe Kool
11-30-2016, 10:31 AM
Good job!

Be sure to email him thanks, these guys get complaints all the time but a little positivity when they do come through is a good idea.

We chatted this morning already. Definitely thanked him. He was happy to get the positive feedback and says he will try to get more TFC news in there in the future.

OgtheDim
11-30-2016, 10:31 AM
Toronto loves a contender.

Baby steps...interest now means possible interest during the season next year. That's the way it went with the Blue Jays when they had a run at the Eastern Pennant - built up awareness and demand.

As for Naylor...putz....but today is such a great day for this team and us supporters not going to let no CFL shill get me down.


:scarf:

Fort York Redcoat
11-30-2016, 10:34 AM
My brother told me that few of his friends at school were mentioning that the mainstream channels like 92.5, 103.5 etc were talking about it even this morning. They were very confused by the away goals rule, which was most of the discussion but it was there!

I just had to explain it to someone at work here. When he scoffed I said imagine explaining the significance to someone not from here celebrating winning game 5 of a 7 game series to keep them in it.

So? He says.

Ah. Nm.

Voodooman
11-30-2016, 11:20 AM
I just had to explain it to someone at work here. When he scoffed I said imagine explaining the significance to someone not from here celebrating winning game 5 of a 7 game series to keep them in it.

So? He says.

Ah. Nm.

I've had the same conversation about both of those. Confusion on both sides. It's funny but at least people are asking. Kinda helps that I ignored the dress code and wore all TFC to work today. My boss knows im big fan for shes allowed it aha.

Soccer Mum
11-30-2016, 11:36 AM
My brother told me that few of his friends at school were mentioning that the mainstream channels like 92.5, 103.5 etc were talking about it even this morning. They were very confused by the away goals rule, which was most of the discussion but it was there!

They tried explaining it on Breakfast Television this morning. They failed miserably.

Canary10
11-30-2016, 11:55 AM
Not much easier trying to explain the concept of aggregate goals.

DinamoTFC
11-30-2016, 12:22 PM
What's so hard to explain. The team that scores more goals over 2 games is the winner - which is called aggregate. If both teams have the same number of goals scored then the second tie breaker is who scores more goals away from home.

All these news channels just have to repeat this line above and its explains it easily.

Canary10
11-30-2016, 12:31 PM
What's so hard to explain. The team that scores more goals over 2 games is the winner - which is called aggregate. If both teams have the same number of goals scored then the second tie breaker is who scores more goals away from home.

All these news channels just have to repeat this line above and its explains it easily.

I know. And yet I've seen "Montreal is ahead 1-0 in the two game series" multiple times.

Huyton
11-30-2016, 12:45 PM
I explain it this way:
2 games, one at each stadium. Whoever scored the most goals over the two games goes through.
1st tiebreaker: Whoever scored the most goals in the other teams stadium.
2nd tiebreaker: Extra time at the end of regulation time in game 2.
3rd tiebreaker: Penalty kicks at the end of extra time in game 2.

Whoever had the better record during the regular season gets Game 2.

I've found that by using the term Tiebreaker, that most people get it. Using the term "Away goals count double" seems to lead to confusion.

In the 50's and 60's, the CFL used to have a two game total points between the first and second place teams. They later went to a semi-final and final arrangement, but there was a modified version of the rule that was invoked in 1986, when the third place team in the East division was truly atrocious.

Canary10
11-30-2016, 12:54 PM
I explain it this way:
2 games, one at each stadium. Whoever scored the most goals over the two games goes through.
1st tiebreaker: Whoever scored the most goals in the other teams stadium.
2nd tiebreaker: Extra time at the end of regulation time in game 2.
3rd tiebreaker: Penalty kicks at the end of extra time in game 2.

Whoever had the better record during the regular season gets Game 2.

I've found that by using the term Tiebreaker, that most people get it. Using the term "Away goals count double" seems to lead to confusion.

In the 50's and 60's, the CFL used to have a two game total points between the first and second place teams. They later went to a semi-final and final arrangement, but there was a modified version of the rule that was invoked in 1986, when the third place team in the East division was truly atrocious.

Yup, I think that's the way to do it.

StokeciTFC
11-30-2016, 12:57 PM
Yup, I think that's the way to do it.

Quite right, use the local sporting vernacular to save confusion.

Besides, away goals don't count double, hence the confusion. For example, if you draw 4-4 in the 1st leg, a score of 8-4 doesn't carry into the second leg, requiring the away team to score 5 to advance...

theaub
11-30-2016, 01:43 PM
Quite right, use the local sporting vernacular to save confusion.

Besides, away goals don't count double, hence the confusion. For example, if you draw 4-4 in the 1st leg, a score of 8-4 doesn't carry into the second leg, requiring the away team to score 5 to advance...

Yeah I've had a couple people use 'away goals count double' to mean TFC 'won' the first leg 4-3 and can advance with a 0-0 draw tonight which is a bit baffling

cmonyoureds
11-30-2016, 02:04 PM
So help me if I get seated next to the "how do away goals work again" crowd tonight..........

StokeciTFC
11-30-2016, 02:12 PM
So help me if I get seated next to the "how do away goals work again" crowd tonight..........

see Huyton's post above ref the tiebreaker.

greatwhitenorf
11-30-2016, 02:18 PM
Norm Kelly tweeting about TFC..this is odd because I rarely see him tweet anything TFC


Norm's Da' was an Ulsterman. Norm knows footer.

burlington Red
12-01-2016, 08:34 AM
nice wee mention on bbc re our exploits v Montreal
http://www.bbc.com/sport/38166657

flatpicker
12-01-2016, 08:49 AM
nice wee mention on bbc re our exploits v Montreal
http://www.bbc.com/sport/38166657

That is nice.
BBC rarely talks about MLS.

GuelphStorm2007
12-01-2016, 08:55 AM
nice wee mention on bbc re our exploits v Montreal
http://www.bbc.com/sport/38166657
BBC is pretty Big

BelfastBoy
12-01-2016, 08:56 AM
Norm's Da' was an Ulsterman. Norm knows footer.

He's heard of George Best.

GuelphStorm2007
12-01-2016, 08:57 AM
Also a little article La Gazzetta delo Sport in Italy

paul-collins
12-01-2016, 09:02 AM
Championship runs do that sort of thing.

Globe and Mail, front page, above the fold.

greatwhitenorf
12-01-2016, 02:31 PM
Championship runs do that sort of thing.

Globe and Mail, front page, above the fold.

Last week's from the Montreal game wasn't half bad either. :)

greatwhitenorf
12-01-2016, 02:35 PM
Got home from the game last night and immediately switched on the TV to see how coverage was rolling. There was CFTO's Joe Tilley givin' it bifters with a well-written script doing him wonders. Until the winning goal, when he ID'd the scorer as Cherry-oo.

And had to laugh at TSN's resident haybale trying to sound enthusiastic about the result because it was in the same stadium as the Grey Cup.

All in all, pretty good coverage so far. But look what they had to work with.

Oldtimer
12-10-2016, 02:12 PM
I'm listening to the fan 590 supposedly discussing TFC and the MLS Cup and they are talking baseball. :facepalm:

ensco
12-10-2016, 02:22 PM
I'm listening to the fan 590 supposedly discussing TFC and the MLS Cup and they are talking baseball. :facepalm:

McCown last night did the same, hijacked a segment about MLS into a longwinded discussion of whether Grey Cups should not be at neutral sites anymore.

reggie
12-11-2016, 01:00 AM
cant wait for the dinosaurs that were forced to talk about the toronto fc or fc i told you so soccer is boring 0 0 tie.
ps...i must say TSN did a great job tonight.

sn0re
12-11-2016, 01:11 AM
cant wait for the dinosaurs that were forced to talk about the toronto fc or fc i told you so soccer is boring 0 0 tie.
ps...i must say TSN did a great job tonight.

Back to the same old Leafs and Jays circle jerk once things has settled down