Match Day 27 - Putting the Impact on the Zipper Ride - Montreal @ TFC Sat Aug 27 730

[molenshtain]

This has zero to do with the rivalry. This will get bad press with the people who we need to pay attention, so that we can get the media on board.

Shit like this gives the dinosaurs an excuse to bash and then ignore.

Stupid.

The lack of mainstream press covering the perpetrated hate crimes committed at the end of last season is a much bigger issue than the globe and mail latching on to some psuedo-sexist banner that's totally non-violent in nature.

Let's see what happens in Montreal in October and see how the press reacts to the inevitable outcome.

[anto7]

We missed 30 seconds of the game due to the tifo. I'm fine with missing up to 3 minutes to show that beautiful tifo. Also because the stadium isn't immediately full so u want as many ppl to see it as possible including the team.
When you're in the south end that's what happens. Your job is to support the team in beautiful ways and unconventional ways. Portland seattle do it for many games. This was one game. And it was beautiful.

Not in total agreement with your answer but each to their own. If the only goal of the game was scored in that first 3 minutes I would not be fine with looking at a beautiful TIFO instead of the game winning goal. I buy my ticket first and foremost to watch the game and support the team on the pitch.

[Eastend]

NYCFC lose 2-1 to Orlando. TFC maintain their 2 point lead in the east.

[Hamilton_Red]

This Thread Title seems to have taken on an unfortunate new meaning! :facepalm:

[PAOK17]

Regarding the game, Vanney did acknowledge that our play with a man up didn't make sense. He didn't like the crosses and such. So it seems like he's at least aware about the problem. What I don't understand is that his player selection is what leads to that. You need very technical players to unlock defences that our bunkering. Players like Endoh aren't going to do that for you.

Also, Endoh is going to have to improve his crosses if he wants to have a decent career. He lacks skill and his first touch is poor. It's almost impossible to teach skill at his age.

[OgtheDim]

SIGH

This is why this thread will be closed.

It's not pseudo sexist.

It is sexist.

And if people think just the CBC is talking about this, it's in the Sun, and will be in every other paper over the next two days.

If people don't think it's wrong, I suggest they ask their mother. And no, some random person on the Internet telling me that their female friends and family don't care does not excuse this.

As I said in the FHRITP discussion last season, this is serious stuff and does and will make some women pause before they go to a TFC game.

We all agree that this stuff isn't wanted. Good.

[Ivy]

This Thread Title seems to have taken on an unfortunate new meaning! :facepalm:
LMFAO. I died.

As a side note, I don't know if sexist is the right word to use for this retardation... I mean, would it be any less offensive if it was a guy blowing another guy? It's just poor poor poor taste, but I don't think it was meant to be offensive to women.

[Initial B]

Dammit man! why would you do something like this?!?
Sorry. :(

Well, it looks like there's a lot more online discussion about that two-stick than the game result. How long did the person hold the sign for that it got noticed?

[Pint]

Thanks for the reply and explanation. I'm sure there is a learning curve and things will get smoother with each experience.

No worries, we knew the battens were be going in motion during the first ~7 min of play but always wanted everything down in time. Tent wasn't going up til other side fully raised which took a little some time with wind etc.

[RealG-TFC]

Ugh just ban the banner and tweet an apology. No need to make it such an issue.

[James17930]

Well said James.

Thank you.

[Onyx]

This Thread Title seems to have taken on an unfortunate new meaning! :facepalm:

post of the month !!!! (for noticing that)

[DinamoTFC]

Not in total agreement with your answer but each to their own. If the only goal of the game was scored in that first 3 minutes I would not be fine with looking at a beautiful TIFO instead of the game winning goal. I buy my ticket first and foremost to watch the game and support the team on the pitch.

Fair enough I get you point. But in each section of the supporters section it states your view may be obstructed by banners, flags, people standing, etc. If this is a big issue for anyone then perhaps the supporters section isn't the best place to be. It's not like you haven't been made aware of possible obstructed view.

http://bmofield.com/faqs/supporters-sections/

[ag futbol]

Yup the CBC is already all over this banner thing, it already has over 180 comments on their story, this will be front and centre news on all the mainstream media in Toronto and Canada, the soccer haters in the media just love these kind of stories when it comes to soccer, they look for negativities like this to write about and talk about , just watch how this becomes a big story in the next few days.
Meh, it's just more fodder for partisan idiots to bicker back and forth. Remember FHRITP? Me either, that shit blew over and so will this.

[flatpicker]

The big top banner was dope.

That other one... pure bullshit.
Whoever made it needs to grow the fuck up.
Apologies for the language, but I'm pissed.
What shocks me most is that in all the time it took to conceive the idea,
and all the time it took to construct the banner,
it never occurred to the folks that this was a bad idea.

Whoever is responsible should be ashamed.

[flamehawk]

Horrible sexist banner, just tops off the horrible couple days of results. That along with fans throwing beer at Toia for no reason ... that game did not look good for our supporters.

Real shame that the good work with the tifo will be overshadowed by the despicable behaviour by our fellow supporters. I hope we stamp this out together.

[Blindside16]

The second looks like shoulder to chest to me. And that's a foul.

I agree. I had to watch it more than once but you can see the defenders arm come out and he drives the elbow into the chest. The ref was in a poor spot to see it but surely his linesman had to have had a decent view.

[James17930]

The big top banner was dope.

That other one... pure bullshit.
Whoever made it needs to grow the fuck up.
Apologies for the language, but I'm pissed.
What shocks me most is that in all the time it took to conceive the idea,
and all the time it took to construct the banner,
it never occurred to the folks that this was a bad idea.

Whoever is responsible should be ashamed.

That's not so surprising, really ... there are idiots everywhere.

What's actually pretty shocking is that they were able to get it into the stadium and hung up without anyone noticing. There was definitely an security lapse there. I hope TFC look more into that side of the issue than anything else.

[Bobo]

Here's the one penalty shout (actually two in one). In the stadium, w/o replay and from far away, I thought PK for sure. Now I'm not sure. First one is a risky tackle, but looks like all ball first. 2nd one is shoulder vs. shoulder.

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/769702722631266304

Neither were PKs, don't even need to see the replays. Homer shouts last night. A couple sketchy calls but overall I don't think the officiating should be used as the scapegoat.

[hulkrogan]

Banned.

For making a joke about how I'm a bad luck charm? I hope you didn't take that as "I'm not supporting the team anymore because they lost". Not the case at all.

[James17930]

For making a joke about how I'm a bad luck charm? I hope you didn't take that as "I'm not supporting the team anymore because they lost". Not the case at all.

He was just joking.

[OgtheDim]

In the cold light of the Monday morning, the injury to Seba is likely the worst effect of that game.

The buzz built up will come again.

The work by the SG's on tifo will make a mark on this city - I look at that like the slow clap - give it time to get noticed.

[Oldtimer]

Regarding the game, Vanney did acknowledge that our play with a man up didn't make sense. He didn't like the crosses and such. So it seems like he's at least aware about the problem. What I don't understand is that his player selection is what leads to that. You need very technical players to unlock defences that our bunkering. Players like Endoh aren't going to do that for you.

Also, Endoh is going to have to improve his crosses if he wants to have a decent career. He lacks skill and his first touch is poor. It's almost impossible to teach skill at his age.

This is the problem with every MLS team, you have depth players who lack some aspect of the game.

Vanney's response is that when the other team bunkers down, TFC should take shots at a distance. That shows something they can work on that he is planning to address.

[burlington Red]

Toronto

[OgtheDim]

Funny thing is...if you ask people, Endoh is a more technically gifted player then the rest of the young players on our team. Scouting on him prior to the draft said he couldn't cross all that far. Yet I've seen him make crosses from less close to the endline that are really good.

His defensive awareness is not good enough yet - lets see if Endoh can learn that over the next few years. I recall we said the same thing of Delgado last season and he really has gotten better at that aspect of his game.

Still rather be us with all these guys under 30 then Montreal, who are creakingly old.

[Leedsoronto]

So the first thing I hear on 640am is news about that stupid banner WTF

And the radio guy called TFC "the impact" WTF2

No mention of TFC when they made it to the top, only this shite makes a talk show WTF3

[zeelaw]

Ugh just ban the banner and tweet an apology. No need to make it such an issue.
Exactly, it's sad to see supporters wanting a dumpster fire. Some people won't stop until someone is fired again.

[KurtLarSUN]

Anyone know who the banner guys is?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Anyone know who the banner guys is?

Not an RPB.

Meant to reply. No edit.

[Red CB Toronto]

Not an RPB.

Meant to reply. No edit.

in reality TFC only has themselves to blame , they let the dam thing in. A big two stick like that can only be brought in though one gate, guess it was given the most vague of looks.

[jabbronies]

So the first thing I hear on 640am is news about that stupid banner WTF

And the radio guy called TFC "the impact" WTF2

No mention of TFC when they made it to the top, only this shite makes a talk show WTF3

TFC are not big enough to have a proper segment on the news with regards to football - but when something happens in the stands...or outside of the damn stadium - they get front page coverage and hour long conversations on morning shows.

The Media in this city are drama whores. Put that in the fucking news and call it sexist.

[SarniaTFC]

Saturday night has come and gone, Sunday has done the same and Monday is now here and I'm still absolutely gutted about the result. We got the result that our performance deserved and I think we can all agree. But I just can't stand losing to those b*astards

[paul-collins]

But when it's one or two idiots doing something, and EVERYONE ELSE agrees it's wrong, then actually, societally, things are working out pretty well. No reasonable person believes this is okay, and who cares about unreasonable people anyway (as long they're not being violent)?

Yet nobody did anything about it while there. So there's that. (ref: Edmund Burke, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.") I bet it even made it safely out of the stadium and back into his (mom's?) basement.


SIGH

This is why this thread will be closed.

It's not pseudo sexist.

It is sexist.

And if people think just the CBC is talking about this, it's in the Sun, and will be in every other paper over the next two days.

If people don't think it's wrong, I suggest they ask their mother. And no, some random person on the Internet telling me that their female friends and family don't care does not excuse this.

As I said in the FHRITP discussion last season, this is serious stuff and does and will make some women pause before they go to a TFC game.

We all agree that this stuff isn't wanted. Good.
QFT

Meh, it's just more fodder for partisan idiots to bicker back and forth. Remember FHRITP? Me either, that shit blew over and so will this.

Actually, what I've found is that this has brought FHRITP right back to the forefront. So, blown over? Not really - and certainly not with a LOT of women.

[paul-collins]

The lack of mainstream press covering the perpetrated hate crimes committed at the end of last season is a much bigger issue than the globe and mail latching on to some psuedo-sexist banner that's totally non-violent in nature.

Let's see what happens in Montreal in October and see how the press reacts to the inevitable outcome.
So we do nothing because in the past something else bad happened?

[Sonny Cheeba]

Not sure if it has already been mentioned but in new stand by bar post game there was a horrible assault where some young lad was out cold for 10 min with blood coming from face n back of head. I don't know what went on prior to it but ambulance n police came. It wasn't something I wanted my 7 yr old seeing

Toronto FC FO should feel somewhat responsible for this, if not totally responsible. That guy who got KO'd had been ejected from 110 for chucking a beer (or other beverage) into the crowd below. He and his buddies also got in a few scuffles as they left their row. Had security/police escorted him and his buddies out of the stadium, he may well have not ended up in that position. Sure he was literally asking for it, but they shouldn't just let someone not only throwing stuff, but getting into fights just hang around on the concourse afterwards, waiting to fight someone.

Ten years in, and this organization still can't deal with this stuff. There were a lot of tourists so to speak at saturday's game who did not give a fuck about anything other than getting shitfaced and going on snapchat. If they could "participate" by chucking a beer or to, then they just felt so much better about the experience.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So we do nothing because in the past something else bad happened?

What do you mean by "we do nothing."? What are you suggesting and of whom do you refer?

[spark]

Funny thing is...if you ask people, Endoh is a more technically gifted player then the rest of the young players on our team. Scouting on him prior to the draft said he couldn't cross all that far. Yet I've seen him make crosses from less close to the endline that are really good.

His defensive awareness is not good enough yet - lets see if Endoh can learn that over the next few years. I recall we said the same thing of Delgado last season and he really has gotten better at that aspect of his game.

Still rather be us with all these guys under 30 then Montreal, who are creakingly old.

The real problem with someone like Endoh (or most NCAA players) is truthfully the 'scouting' on him prior to being drafted would be limited. I think any consensus or opinions on him come from small sample sizes (ie people marveling about him after the season opener), instead of at least a full season to accurately come to a conclusion on him.

From what I've seen, I wouldn't rate him more technically gifted than the likes of Chapman or Delgado. I think all of our young players have strengths and weaknesses that the others either have or don't have. All have had great games and some real stinkers. Some of them will take their skills to the next level (if they get enough playing time/commitment) and what we should be looking for is more consistency in good performances IMO.

[paul-collins]

What do you mean by "we do nothing."? What are you suggesting and of whom do you refer?
Not being specific about either the "we" or the "do", it's just that the false equivalency that I find irksome.

"Yeah it was bad what was done in our presence but you should have seen what the other guys did that time before, much worse." Who cares about the previous time? That is long gone. We can only deal with the issue in front of us.

The best thing that can be done (now, after the fact) is what seems to be happening. Condemnation by the SGs, serious investigation (and action?) by the FO.

It would have been better if security had've dealt with it at the game (or better yet, at the gate).

I get that a person wouldn't want to get into it directly with the transgressor. If someone who saw it at the time had've alerted security and let them deal with it at the time, that would have been best.

But this is all in retrospect - next time something stupid like this happens, I hope someone thinks of how it can be dealt with earlier rather than later. (And if I see it, I believe I will do so.)

[Red CB Toronto]

Not being specific about either the "we" or the "do", it's just that the false equivalency that I find irksome.

"Yeah it was bad what was done in our presence but you should have seen what the other guys did that time before, much worse." Who cares about the previous time? That is long gone. We can only deal with the issue in front of us.

The best thing that can be done (now, after the fact) is what seems to be happening. Condemnation by the SGs, serious investigation (and action?) by the FO.

It would have been better if security had've dealt with it at the game (or better yet, at the gate).

I get that a person wouldn't want to get into it directly with the transgressor. If someone who saw it at the time had've alerted security and let them deal with it at the time, that would have been best.

But this is all in retrospect - next time something stupid like this happens, I hope someone thinks of how it can be dealt with earlier rather than later. (And if I see it, I believe I will do so.)


I agree, in an ideal world someone holds up a stupid sign, two stick like that, security asks the game to put it down, take it away , leaving it at that, end of story.

I kind I do of wonder if say a sign like that was noticed by a security guard, taken away with no issue and discarded if he/she would report anything as there really is no issue.

[burlington Red]

Toronto FC FO should feel somewhat responsible for this, if not totally responsible. That guy who got KO'd had been ejected from 110 for chucking a beer (or other beverage) into the crowd below. He and his buddies also got in a few scuffles as they left their row. Had security/police escorted him and his buddies out of the stadium, he may well have not ended up in that position. Sure he was literally asking for it, but they shouldn't just let someone not only throwing stuff, but getting into fights just hang around on the concourse afterwards, waiting to fight someone.

Ten years in, and this organization still can't deal with this stuff. There were a lot of tourists so to speak at saturday's game who did not give a fuck about anything other than getting shitfaced and going on snapchat. If they could "participate" by chucking a beer or to, then they just felt so much better about the experience.


security messed up big time on this. The thud that lad's head hit the ground with was sickening.I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of this. That lad was out cold for a lengthy period. We have national press all over us due to a distasteful flag yet not a word about this.

[MartinUtd]

The 'sucks' banner was stupid and deserves a stern finger wagging. I'm more embarrassed about the professionally outraged though.

[ag futbol]

Actually, what I've found is that this has brought FHRITP right back to the forefront. So, blown over? Not really - and certainly not with a LOT of women.
It was out of the press cycle prior to this. Lasting damage of that last incident? Hard to quantify but I'd guess minimal. What the media decides to use for click bate for a few weeks will blow over.

This is just a means for people who have opposing viewpoints on an existing social issue to yell at each other in the comments section. In a few weeks the anger will die down or they'll direct their venting towards something else that pops up.

Bad behaviour of a few people not to be excused but also not to be exaggerated as something it's not ie this club being somehow different from every other sports team in terms of the type of fans they draw or the supposed acceptance of this behaviour.

[TFC Tifoso]

SIGH

This is why this thread will be closed.

It's not pseudo sexist.

It is sexist.

And if people think just the CBC is talking about this, it's in the Sun, and will be in every other paper over the next two days.

If people don't think it's wrong, I suggest they ask their mother. And no, some random person on the Internet telling me that their female friends and family don't care does not excuse this.

As I said in the FHRITP discussion last season, this is serious stuff and does and will make some women pause before they go to a TFC game.

We all agree that this stuff isn't wanted. Good.

It doesn't excuse it, but some people will choose to be offended by it and make a story out of it, and some will choose not to and won't.....its pretty subjective, depending on where each person's limit is.....

Me?.....tbh I didn't even notice the two-stick at the game at all, and I'm assuming most who were at the game didn't either (considering conversation here on it only really started after the article link was posted)....to me that kinda says a bit to how offended people were by it, or at least when they chose to be offended by it.....

[molenshtain]

So we do nothing because in the past something else bad happened?


No. I'd just prefer reporting to be fair and balanced. This makes it look like a troublesome over the top action on our part, when in reality that's not the case. I don't condone the banner, it was lewd and unnecessary. But we should't face this amount of media scrutiny and possible sanctions for a for less harmful action than what they did last year and got away with scot free.

[zeelaw]

The 'sucks' banner was stupid and deserves a stern finger wagging. I'm more embarrassed about the professionally outraged though.
:megaphone::megaphone: :megaphone::megaphone:

Agreed.

[reggie]

No. I'd just prefer reporting to be fair and balanced. This makes it look like a troublesome over the top action on our part, when in reality that's not the case. I don't condone the banner, it was lewd and unnecessary. But we should't face this amount of media scrutiny and possible sanctions for a for less harmful action than what they did last year and got away with scot free.
what did they do last year.?

[OgtheDim]

Most people don't look at the South during the game so no that's not proof of anything. I could have raised this issue on Sunday morning when I first saw it from my overnight twitter feed but chose not to do so because I knew what would happen and I'm tired of having to go over the same ground every time some bozo does something sexist just as I'm tired of once again having to explain to people I know that the vast majority of TFC supporters are not like that.

I'm not "professionally outraged".

I'm personally fucking ticked off.

I just want to support a football team.

So do a lot of women.

Misogynist exclusionary shit like this is not necessary to support this team.

And, yes, it crosses a line.

**********

MLSE is dealing with the bozo. Good enough for me.

But I'm not a professional getting upset - I'm just a guy who is slowly getting people he knows interested in MLS and TFC. And this sort of bozo crud hurts that.

[TFC Tifoso]

Most people don't look at the South during the game so no that's not proof of anything. I could have raised this issue on Sunday morning when I first saw it from my overnight twitter feed but chose not to do so because I knew what would happen and I'm tired of having to go over the same ground every time some bozo does something sexist just as I'm tired of once again having to explain to people I know that the vast majority of TFC supporters are not like that.

I'm not "professionally outraged".

I'm personally fucking ticked off.

I just want to support a football team.

So do a lot of women.

Misogynist exclusionary shit like this is not necessary to support this team.

And, yes, it crosses a line.

**********

MLSE is dealing with the bozo. Good enough for me.

But don't anybody tell me I can't be upset about this because this sort of Bozo eruption crud directly affects my ability to get people interested in going to BMO. Swearing...no issue. Beer...no issue. Misogny...that turns people off.

and anybody that has half a brain or doesn't have it out for TFC/TFC supporters should be able to understand straight away that most TFC supporters are "not like that" without any explanation needed.

I may be wrong but in the big picture, I doubt many if any women at all will no longer support TFC or go to BMO Field because of it.

You say it crosses a line, and while many people agree with you, that is strictly your opinion which you're certainly entitled to....but it doesn't make it fact. There are just as many people who were not offended by it.

Nobody is saying you can't be upset about it (nobody should anyways, if that's how you feel, then it is what it is). But please understand that there is most likely at least an equal amount of people who could't care less about it.

Had the Montreal supporter in the two-stick been depicted as a male, would it have made any difference?

[MartinUtd]

The professionally outraged comment is really just aimed at people that are literally making a living off this exposure. A cartoon banner depicting fellatio is just plain silly on its face and when our resident Helen Lovejoy showcases quotes like this:


“I’m happy to sit down with anyone who doesn't get why this is problematic if they want a lesson in 21st century fan culture.”

I just have to laugh. I'm sorry I'm not meeting this with more concern as if a human rights issue was breached.

[Onyx]

No. I'd just prefer reporting to be fair and balanced. This makes it look like a troublesome over the top action on our part, when in reality that's not the case. I don't condone the banner, it was lewd and unnecessary. But we should't face this amount of media scrutiny and possible sanctions for a for less harmful action than what they did last year and got away with scot free.

Did larson really need to do a full article on this -- seems like a news and notes item on a bottom of a column
The banner was offside because their are kids at the game -- i sure stadium staff would have grabbed if they had seen it. I have no problem with this stuff in the forum or twitter.
Only reason this is a story is Impact supporters contacted/flagged this hard for the cbc -- i don't agree with other teams fans using the press to get back at other teams -- use forums, twitter, in stadia cheering, etc.

[Sonny Cheeba]

MLSE is dealing with the bozo. Good enough for me.

They should be dealing with themselves and not the guy who brought that in. TFC/MLSE hold responsibility as they are supposed to oversee the content of banners as they make their way into the stadium. Does that not happen anymore?

[Fort York Redcoat]

They should be dealing with themselves and not the guy who brought that in. TFC/MLSE hold responsibility as they are supposed to oversee the content of banners as they make their way into the stadium. Does that not happen anymore?

Yes but they clearly missed this one.

And security missed it.

Or didn't care.

All are missteps.

[molenshtain]

what did they do last year.?

on the final game of the season the police let droves of Montreal supporters attack our fans exiting the stadium and into the park on the way back to the subway. I myself had to dodge quite a few of them and ended up running back to the subway. There was*zero* police presence when they'd repeatedly said there would be. After the playoff game, the police just took it upon themselves to kick the shit out of as many TFC supporters as possible.

But Saputo cried to the league and to the press about what certain individuals did in stands during the first game and the only story we got was about how we used some smoke and ripped up a few seats (the same thing the Impact did the first time they came to BMO). This is how things work. Our FO needs to do a better job at setting the narrative around these things. I;m not happy with the banner, and I'm glad MLSE is supposedly dealing with the individual personally. But this continues the narrative that we're the overbearing bully in this rivalry.. It could not be further from the case.

This also overshawdows the wonderful display put on by the rest of the supporters in the south end. The impact did this on purpose because they can't get over the fact that we're the better, bigger club. Fuck the Impact. Can't wait for October 14th.


EDIT: oh right. And then UMO2 used the same smoke/flare devices we got suspended for in the playoff game most of our supporters were banned from. Because there are no rules until somoene cries foul. It's bullshit.fuck them.

[Jack]

One idiot with an obscene banner overshadows the amazing, multi-group display that took an effort of multiple people.

If people want to talk about a banner at that game, ask me about the huge tifo and how much work went into it from the supporters. Talk about the hard work and spending their own time and money and working with the team to get rigging put in and setting up a great display. Don't ask me about one idiot who put up a rude banner that security should've caught at the gate anyway.

[Red CB Toronto]

The Impact did have buses outside the stadium right the game to take TFC supporters straight back downtown. You essentially had to be in Red to get on them. They were diligent in making sure anyone who wanted to take them knew about them.


on the final game of the season the police let droves of Montreal supporters attack our fans exiting the stadium and into the park on the way back to the subway. I myself had to dodge quite a few of them and ended up running back to the subway. There was*zero* police presence when they'd repeatedly said there would be. After the playoff game, the police just took it upon themselves to kick the shit out of as many TFC supporters as possible.

But Saputo cried to the league and to the press about what certain individuals did in stands during the first game and the only story we got was about how we used some smoke and ripped up a few seats (the same thing the Impact did the first time they came to BMO). This is how things work. Our FO needs to do a better job at setting the narrative around these things. I;m not happy with the banner, and I'm glad MLSE is supposedly dealing with the individual personally. But this continues the narrative that we're the overbearing bully in this rivalry.. It could not be further from the case.

This also overshawdows the wonderful display put on by the rest of the supporters in the south end. The impact did this on purpose because they can't get over the fact that we're the better, bigger club. Fuck the Impact. Can't wait for October 14th.


EDIT: oh right. And then UMO2 used the same smoke/flare devices we got suspended for in the playoff game most of our supporters were banned from. Because there are no rules until somoene cries foul. It's bullshit.fuck them.

[MartinUtd]

Really? Because last October I remember being ushered out into a dark wooded area with no security.

[Red CB Toronto]

Really? Because last October I remember being ushered out into a dark wooded area with no security.

Yes, there was a bunch of buses offered up to take TFC suporters right back downtown. I was up beside the TFC bus on the other side of the stadium as the lads were loading up and an Impact staffer was asking anyone in TFC gear if they wanted to take the bus as this was last call for it. About 90 min or so after the game I had no issue walking over to the subway wearing my TFC cap.

[MartinUtd]

I was one of the last ones out and never saw or heard of any shuttle downtown. Odd, I definitely would have taken up the offer.

[Ivy]

Yes, there was a bunch of buses offered up to take TFC suporters right back downtown. I was up beside the TFC bus on the other side of the stadium as the lads were loading up and an Impact staffer was asking anyone in TFC gear if they wanted to take the bus as this was last call for it. About 90 min or so after the game I had no issue walking over to the subway wearing my TFC cap.
The playoff game? No, there wasn't.
You might be thinking of the game in April.
There was nothing done by either club in October to keep drama to a minimum.

[Gringo Starr]

There were no buses for the playoff game that I saw. Did see police and impact supporters in the wooded area though. Thought tfc supporters did a good job sticking together and looking out for each other. Didn't care for the three or four guys who kept charging the impact fans throwing punches and then running back to the group and hiding among those who didn't want any part of the antics.

I did hear tfc fans were attacked with retractable batons to the legs on the way in but didn't personally see that.

On another note, that Tifo was wicked. Huge congrats to the supporters groups for the effort in pulling that off and working together. That fan support should be the story of the day, no other sports team in the city has fans making that type of commitment, shame the media want to focus on the actions of one guy rather then the efforts of all those who worked on the Tifo. Awesome kick ass stuff, the groups should be really proud.

[paul-collins]

It doesn't excuse it, but some people will choose to be offended by it and make a story out of it, and some will choose not to and won't.....its pretty subjective, depending on where each person's limit is.....
That's not how this works. It is objectively subjugating women as a surrogate for Montreal and its fans. This is not "offensive" because it does not depend on the receiver of the message. The message is intended to be one of subjugation.

You say it crosses a line, and while many people agree with you, that is strictly your opinion which you're certainly entitled to....but it doesn't make it fact. There are just as many people who were not offended by it.
This is not about opinion. It is objectively denigrating of women.

Find me 100 women who view it and are not offended by it. I'll wait.

[MartinUtd]

We should now debate the semantics of what is and is not objective. Because clearly there's a consensus we're this close to nailing down.

[paul-collins]

No. I'd just prefer reporting to be fair and balanced. This makes it look like a troublesome over the top action on our part, when in reality that's not the case. I don't condone the banner, it was lewd and unnecessary. But we should't face this amount of media scrutiny and possible sanctions for a for less harmful action than what they did last year and got away with scot free.
Missed this one while I was responding to other posts. I basically agree that it would be good to get fair and balanced media treatment. But we know that's not the media market we're in.

As much as I'm perturbed by the stupid two stick on its own merits, I'm extremely pissed on behalf of the people who put all that work into the massive fun house display, and for the team itself. A stupid little thing like that is always going to get the trogs in our talk media and TV land to pay attention, and gloss over the fact that this is a serious team, with committed and serious fans, in a serious sport, that is leading their conference and second overall in the league!

We should be basking in all sorts of glowing media attention right now, but we're fighting for oxygen in the best of times. We don't need distractions. And we know that the trogs will jump all over the distraction rather than pay attention to all the good stuff, in order to justify their own prejudices, editorial choices, and jobs.

[ExiledRed]

Listen. Its the fucking alternative kits that are to blame.

Im serious, they're cursed and they cause people to do bad things.

[Red CB Toronto]

The playoff game? No, there wasn't.
You might be thinking of the game in April.
There was nothing done by either club in October to keep drama to a minimum.

My bad, I completely flip flopped games in my mind having been to so many of them, it was early season game this year where Buses to downtown was offered up to TFC supporters.

[Blizzard]

One idiot with an obscene banner overshadows the amazing, multi-group display that took an effort of multiple people.

If people want to talk about a banner at that game, ask me about the huge tifo and how much work went into it from the supporters. Talk about the hard work and spending their own time and money and working with the team to get rigging put in and setting up a great display. Don't ask me about one idiot who put up a rude banner that security should've caught at the gate anyway.

^^^ This ^^^

[DinamoTFC]

on the final game of the season the police let droves of Montreal supporters attack our fans exiting the stadium and into the park on the way back to the subway. I myself had to dodge quite a few of them and ended up running back to the subway. There was*zero* police presence when they'd repeatedly said there would be. After the playoff game, the police just took it upon themselves to kick the shit out of as many TFC supporters as possible.

But Saputo cried to the league and to the press about what certain individuals did in stands during the first game and the only story we got was about how we used some smoke and ripped up a few seats (the same thing the Impact did the first time they came to BMO). This is how things work. Our FO needs to do a better job at setting the narrative around these things. I;m not happy with the banner, and I'm glad MLSE is supposedly dealing with the individual personally. But this continues the narrative that we're the overbearing bully in this rivalry.. It could not be further from the case.

This also overshawdows the wonderful display put on by the rest of the supporters in the south end. The impact did this on purpose because they can't get over the fact that we're the better, bigger club. Fuck the Impact. Can't wait for October 14th.


EDIT: oh right. And then UMO2 used the same smoke/flare devices we got suspended for in the playoff game most of our supporters were banned from. Because there are no rules until somoene cries foul. It's bullshit.fuck them.


Every point here is 100% accurate. I was in montreal too and had to experience that bullshit.

Montrealers are being hypocrites. Crying foul when doing the same crap or worse.

[DinamoTFC]

Really? Because last October I remember being ushered out into a dark wooded area with no security.

The buses were for the playoff game for tfc fans or for this year. Not the second last regular season game we went to.

[MartinUtd]

Listen. Its the fucking alternative kits that are to blame.

Im serious, they're cursed and they cause people to do bad things.

Couldn't agree me. In fact, you've inspired me to do this (https://twitter.com/limeymartin/status/770421863545733121).

[MartinUtd]

The buses were for the playoff game for tfc fans or for this year. Not the second last regular season game we went to.

I could be getting the regular season game and the playoff game mixed up. Two bad memories days apart have melded together after a year.

[MightyDM]

Saturday night has come and gone, Sunday has done the same and Monday is now here and I'm still absolutely gutted about the result. We got the result that our performance deserved and I think we can all agree. But I just can't stand losing to those b*astards

Exactly. And didn't you drive across for the match?

[MightyDM]

Listen. Its the fucking alternative kits that are to blame.

Im serious, they're cursed and they cause people to do bad things.

havent we lost at home both times we have worn it?

[Red4ever]

There were undercover cops in Tfc gear in 112 in Mtl.

When a fight almost broke out, they stepped in and flashed badges.

The police presence wasn't good enough but it sure as shit wasn't zero.

[molenshtain]

havent we lost at home both times we have worn it?

We wore them for the win against D.C. in July.

[molenshtain]

There were undercover cops in Tfc gear in 112 in Mtl.

When a fight almost broke out, they stepped in and flashed badges.

The police presence wasn't good enough but it sure as shit wasn't zero.

For the playoff game or for the season finale a couple days earlier?

[WestStandGeoff]

Had the Montreal supporter in the two-stick been depicted as a male, would it have made any difference?

Probably not much... main difference is we'd be dealing with are shrieks of homophobia instead of sexism. But yeah, mostly the same professionally outraged and offended crowd.

[Red4ever]

Playoff game.

[stevep]

in reality TFC only has themselves to blame , they let the dam thing in. A big two stick like that can only be brought in though one gate, guess it was given the most vague of looks.


when i saw the news story and the banner, i thought the banner was quite funny

[molenshtain]

Playoff game.

That makes sense. They were intentionally overzealous with their policing efforts for the playoff game because they knew how badly they fucked up the previous game. My point about the lack of police presence was for the finale. They stepped it up, badly, for the playoff game. That led to the beating of our fans as they left the stadium.

[ag futbol]

So I looked at the article from the globe on everyone's favourite banner...

At that top they have a picture of Osorio who is described as "TFC midfielder Chris Mannella (20)". While I can't blame them for being off a single number, a simple look at the team sheet would have saved their bacon. The 5th estate is a struggling enterprise these days. It's only a matter of time before our shame is displaced by a really cute cat video.

[PAOK17]

Probably not much... main difference is we'd be dealing with are shrieks of homophobia instead of sexism. But yeah, mostly the same professionally outraged and offended crowd.
Maybe if the genders were reversed, as in the tfc fan were the female and the impact fan was male, would there be cries of sexism towards men? I think the argument would still be yes if we want to maintain equality. I don't think the act of oral is sexist on its own. It's more the implications that in this poster the one performing oral is beneath the one receiving.

Then again no point in talking hypotheticals. I think the worst part is likely the sexual content in a family environment.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So I looked at the article from the globe on everyone's favourite banner...

At that top they have a picture of Osorio who is described as "TFC midfielder Chris Mannella (20)". While I can't blame them for being off a single number, a simple look at the team sheet would have saved their bacon. The 5th estate is a struggling enterprise these days. It's only a matter of time before our shame is displaced by a really cute cat video.

Close. It seems to be dead Reindeer struck by lightning. So far. I LOVE the future!

[KurtLarSUN]

So I looked at the article from the globe on everyone's favourite banner...

At that top they have a picture of Osorio who is described as "TFC midfielder Chris Mannella (20)". While I can't blame them for being off a single number, a simple look at the team sheet would have saved their bacon. The 5th estate is a struggling enterprise these days. It's only a matter of time before our shame is displaced by a really cute cat video.

This is likely the fault of the photographer, who named Osorio incorrectly in the cutline that was submitted to the publication. This happens fairly often. It's an "attention to detail" issue. It's not something an editor at a news outlet would double check. They'd just rely on the photographer to get the name right.

[OgtheDim]

Star article on the sign and reactions - ignore the SEO catching headline - the point of the article is in the first sentence

Balanced article over all.


Female Toronto FC fans are urging women and girls who support the team to continue doing so, despite two high-profile sexist incidents involving Reds supporters in the last two seasons.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/08/29/toronto-fc-calls-sexually-explicit-fan-sign-a-disgraceful-act.html


One thing in that article - the sign was reported to security BEFORE the match started. Club security will be in big shit for that mess up.

[TFC Tifoso]

Wonder why the media has yet to pick up on the number of people, men and women alike, who've been walking in and out of the Rogers Centre the past year or so with "I Love BJs" across their shirt?.....
Or is that ok because its the Blue Jay crowd and not these hooligan soccer fans?.....

[OgtheDim]

Wonder why the media has yet to pick up on the number of people, men and women alike, who've been walking in and out of the Rogers Centre the past year or so with "I Love BJs" across their shirt?.....
Or is that ok because its the Blue Jay crowd and not these hooligan soccer fans?.....

If you really want to go down the road of discussing why that poster was misogynistic and saying you like BJ's isn't, we can do that.

Here you go, courtesy of somebody on redditt

http://i.imgur.com/Ugmo4TO.jpg

[C.Ronaldo]

If you really want to go down the road of discussing why that poster was misogynistic and saying you like BJ's isn't, we can do that.

Here you go, courtesy of somebody on redditt

http://i.imgur.com/Ugmo4TO.jpg

all supporters of both teams and of 'competing' sports need to stop bickering and focus on the issue at hand, which is sexism still needs to be stamped out of sports culture.

I heard one caller on 590 saying they would never take their kids to TFC but are okay with jays and leafs. He has clearly not gone to leafs game on sat night and seen all the trash that the flows out of there and into union station. Or been witness to many of the Jays upper deck drunk brawls

This cant be about soccer vs other sports. this is a cultural issue that needs to be addressed.

[Red4ever]

That makes sense. They were intentionally overzealous with their policing efforts for the playoff game because they knew how badly they fucked up the previous game. My point about the lack of police presence was for the finale. They stepped it up, badly, for the playoff game. That led to the beating of our fans as they left the stadium.

I see that now, my mistake. Don't get my wrong, they are hypocrites and full of shit most of the time. That was maybe the one aspect they got right.

[Red4ever]

Wonder why the media has yet to pick up on the number of people, men and women alike, who've been walking in and out of the Rogers Centre the past year or so with "I Love BJs" across their shirt?.....
Or is that ok because its the Blue Jay crowd and not these hooligan soccer fans?.....

Willing to bet it's because what you are describing is double entendre rather than the aforementioned banner that upon close inspection seems to hold one single entendre.

But yeah, hooligans. If that banner was in 112 it would have been up for 30 seconds tops.

I'll let that last joke write its self.

[MartinUtd]

Willing to bet it's because what you are describing is double entendre rather than the aforementioned banner that upon close inspection seems to hold one single entendre.

But yeah, hooligans. If that banner was in 112 it would have been up for 30 seconds tops.

I'll let that last joke write its self.

"Sucks" is still a double entendre though :p

[Red4ever]

"Sucks" is still a double entendre though :p

:) indeed, but you could argue they demonstrated only one interpretation.

I won't lie, part of me hates this cause it's crass but most of me hates it cause it's so terribly not clever.

Compare that to they "if we can't have nice things why should they?" banner.

[MightyDM]

If you really want to go down the road of discussing why that poster was misogynistic and saying you like BJ's isn't, we can do that.

Here you go, courtesy of somebody on redditt

http://i.imgur.com/Ugmo4TO.jpg

yes. Exactly. Q.E.D.

[Initial B]

Just curious, but if the two-stick had shown a woman in BDSM TFC gear and a man in blue gimp regalia on his knees in front of her, would that make the same impression? Or would that be just taken as misandry instead of misogyny?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Just curious, but if the two-stick had shown a woman in BDSM TFC gear and a man in blue gimp regalia on his knees in front of her, would that make the same impression? Or would that be just taken as misandry instead of misogyny?

You do sound curious.

How about we head back to the myriad talking points about the game?

I'm glad some people (not specifically quoted above) are learning lots but these what ifs are getting into an off topic or on topic on some other forum.

EDIT: Was going to put a 50 shades review here but decided against it.

[MartinUtd]

I think you have to consider such questions if we're going to accept the male/female power dynamic narrative as being the motivation behind the display. What if it was a guy blowing another guy? Would be be discussing lewd displays or gay oppression? I'm not saying this because I want to discuss it, rather providing an example that if you have an axe to grind, people will find a way to do it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think you have to consider such questions if we're going to accept the male/female power dynamic narrative as being the motivation behind the display. What if it was a guy blowing another guy? Would be be discussing lewd displays or gay oppression? I'm not saying this because I want to discuss it, rather providing an example that if you have an axe to grind, people will find a way to do it.

Um wait...


We should now debate the semantics of what is and is not objective. Because clearly there's a consensus we're this close to nailing down.

Which is the piss take?:noidea::lol:

I agree with your "axe to grind" angle but raise you a "but compared to this offense it's not so bad, therefore it's ok, riiiiight?".:rolleyes:

So... Seba is out and Canada plays without Willy Johnson in 2 days. Ricketts to pot a brace!

[MartinUtd]

lol there's a consistent point in there, I assure you.

That is: all of this is an exercise in futility. Wherever you set the threshold, somebody will get offended and make a media issue out of it.



On another note, I hope we get to see some more J-Ham minutes in the next month.

[TFC Tifoso]

lol there's a consistent point in there, I assure you.

That is: all of this is an exercise in futility. Wherever you set the threshold, somebody will get offended and make a media issue out of it.



On another note, I hope we get to see some more J-Ham minutes in the next month.

this is my debate as well, you just worded it much better lol.....

goes back to the subjective nature of what is "offensive".....could there be an instance of something that is universally offensive? Sure, but that just shows that eventually everyone has a break point.
Doesn't look like this was the case here.....

Not much more to say on this for me.....




So... Seba is out and Canada plays without Willy Johnson in 2 days. Ricketts to pot a brace!

Seba's injury will be a good test of character for the team getting ready for the playoffs, and it looks like his time missed will be minimal. so here's hoping that's true!

Huge match Friday.....great way to roll into a long weekend.....hopefully we can get a result and Ricketts decent form form for TFC follows him to the NT.
Though a bit discouraging to read that Osorio and now Johnson are basically being blackballed by Floro......Osorio for what happened in the Gold Cup a couple years back and Johnson for skipping out on some friendlies (iirc) earlier this year.
Canada needs their best players to suit up, and short of any major transgressions, it should be the case.
I think Floro is being a bit too much of a tough guy here....

[lobo]

I dunno, it looked like a well deserved red card to me, especially after seeing it again. In the initial replay in the video, I see the play stopped, and Mallace came running on a line straight at Beits, with a very intentional step in for a cheap shot. Some TFC players were running back to defend, but Montreal players were all walking up, except Mallace who comes bombing in and lays Beitashour down hard. MLS panel disagrees and rescinds the red.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/09/02/independent-review-panel-rescinds-red-card-montreals-calum-mallace