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View Full Version : Toronto FC Acquire Armando Cooper on Loan



MartinUtd
08-18-2016, 02:50 PM
New players still get their own thread, right?

Well after all the rumours we've finally landed Armando Cooper.

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/08/18/toronto-fc-acquire-armando-cooper-loan

I'm not sure what all the fanfare was about to be perfectly honest. 1 goal in the last 5 years with his national team has been a bit of a journeyman in that time as well? Can somebody give me a reason to be excited about this?

Ultra & Proud
08-18-2016, 02:52 PM
He was good in WC qualifiers and isn't looked at as a goal scorer from what I read. He is a creator with nifty skills and some pace.

I said Ricketts was equal to a bag of dirty laundry when he was rumored and came off better than expected so I am saying nothing good or bad until I see him out there with my own two eyes.

Pint
08-18-2016, 03:15 PM
I'm not expecting anything magical, certainly not a valeri type player but he should be a step up from what we have and add some risk free depth as we head into the home stretch and playoffs.

DinamoTFC
08-18-2016, 04:49 PM
I don't expect him to score much. We have Seba and Jozy for that. What I expect is a more mature footballer, who is creative, can create more scoring opportunities for our forwards and hopefully wont be afraid to run at defenders when they bunker down against us.

Ultra & Proud
08-18-2016, 04:52 PM
I don't expect him to score much. We have Seba and Jozy for that. What I expect is a more mature footballer, who is creative, can create more scoring opportunities for our forwards and hopefully wont be afraid to run at defenders when they bunker down against us.
And hopefully if we ever use him wide, he can actually cross it into where our players are located in the area.

anto7
08-18-2016, 05:04 PM
I don't see any risk to this move. Even if he does not set things alight having another option available as we move down the stretch is not going to hurt, especially a guy with plenty of experience such as Cooper. I am very interested to see how Vanney figures out the midfield with so many options available when everyone is fit. I can see quite a bit of rotation being used based on the opponents style, which is not a bad thing since it also keeps everyone fresh and eager to impress.

ronzilla
08-18-2016, 05:36 PM
He will be a step-up in the midfield, no doubt.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-18-2016, 08:23 PM
I am saying nothing good or bad until I see him out there with my own two eyes.

Generally the best policy, can't wait to see this dude play

ensco
08-18-2016, 11:40 PM
Nobody can know, but I am kind of stunned by the generally positive view of this on here. Is a four game home win streak this strong a brew?

This is unlikely to work. Loans to MLS don't work, show me the history of success. This isn't Januzaj to Sunderland, it's a fourth division headcase going to a third division team, because ... I don't know. What is the business case here? Looks like he's available and he is cheap because he's a locker room cancer, and nobody else wants him or knows what to do with him... but is an Arabe Unido guy with issues really better than sticking with Osorio/Delgado?

These deals rarely work, and they are the refuge of poor managements. Guys who are loaned out have massive issues. We have tried this before. Remember Stefanovic, or all those Nelsen guys (Bostock, Ephraim etc) that everybody thought were so wonderful?

In this particular case, they highlight the cap mismanagement issues pretty clearly. There will be a big desire to characterize this as a "flyer" if it doesn't work, a riskless punt, as though all the other decisions that led here, and the opportunity costs, are irrelevant.

I am pretty disappointed. I see the caliber of non-DP international coming into MLS in 2016, and I look at this.. I hope I am wrong of course, but this looks like very thin gruel.

I don't love the positioning games in loan situations either. There is the opportunity to really mask accountability. The leaks to friendly reporters over days/weeks are the first clue...The context in these types of signings - who made the approach, who decided to do it, who did the negotiaton, what is the "industrial logic" for the signing - is critical to understanding them, and is generally withheld by those who are responsible, until they can decide how to shape the story.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-19-2016, 01:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJxCdh1Ps48
Thanks Dr Buzzkill.
Ill still wait it out to see dude play. If hes a bust, big deal he wont return. If hes great, we will prob sign him. Hands are tied due to limited cash rn. New season is a different story.

burlington Red
08-19-2016, 06:37 AM
On paper nothing really to get too excited about, but as others have said we need to wait and see before we judge. It's in cases such as this, that good scouting needs to have taken place, and that's not generally something we've been too good at in the past. But hopefully management see something in this guy that they can work with, that they see a particular role for him in our team.
Hopefully the lad sees this opportunity for what it is , he is 29 I think. so this is a great chance for him. He's a seasoned international, I have never seen him play, but if he can take a defender on from the wing and put in a decent cross, he'd more than do for me at this stage.

OgtheDim
08-19-2016, 06:49 AM
..

This is unlikely to work. Loans to MLS don't work, show me the history of success. This isn't Januzaj to Sunderland, it's a fourth division headcase going to a third division team, because ... I don't know. What is the business case here? Looks like he's available and he is cheap because he's a locker room cancer, and nobody else wants him or knows what to do with him...

We got any history on that apart from spec based on his time in Germany?

I would say this - Bez and Vanney have been very careful about who they bring into the locker room. The closest thing we had to a head case was Perquis. And that locker room will not put up with cancers. He either works out in these 10 games and stays or goes back. If he doesn't perform in practice or in games, he sees the bench.

They think he can move the ball around. Lets see.

I doubt he was the first option. This has all the hallmarks of a "well we have some cap space now so lets use it and then see in December" move.

Pint
08-19-2016, 07:53 AM
Armando Cooper was good enough to have several MLS teams after him including Vancouver and NYCFC as well as he was stashed on the timbers "discovery list" until 6 weeks ago. To me this seams like a guy who was scouted but wasn't really considered a possibility until his deal fell apart in columbia and portland had dropped his discovery rights.

If he can come in and create some space for seba this will be a good move.

Yohan
08-19-2016, 08:39 AM
You know who else was a locker room cancer for other teams? Amado Guevara. He turned out ok for TFC

it's a calculated risk. If cooper works out, cool. if not it's just a loan and he's gone at the end of the year.

Derko
08-19-2016, 09:06 AM
Hope he proves the nay sayers wrong, that's all

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2016, 10:00 AM
This is unlikely to work. Loans to MLS don't work, show me the history of success.
Cabrera was okay in Montreal last year. Ontivero is okay for them this year so far. Quintero has been alright for SJ this season. Aird is okay for the Whitecaps this year. Juninho was good for the Galaxy for years on loan. There are probably more that I could look into on the interwebs but these are the ones I know of off the top of my head that are alright and on loan.

They aren't all busts. A lot don't pan out but some do to some extent. You can't judge the complete value of loans based on actions from the various boner management teams we had in here in our shit years. Even then we had Plata & Cesar so we had successful loans as well.

Oldtimer
08-19-2016, 10:04 AM
This is unlikely to work. Loans to MLS don't work, show me the history of success. This isn't Januzaj to Sunderland, it's a fourth division headcase going to a third division team, because ... I don't know. What is the business case here? Looks like he's available and he is cheap because he's a locker room cancer, and nobody else wants him or knows what to do with him... but is an Arabe Unido guy with issues really better than sticking with Osorio/Delgado?

These deals rarely work, and they are the refuge of poor managements. Guys who are loaned out have massive issues. We have tried this before. Remember Stefanovic, or all those Nelsen guys (Bostock, Ephraim etc) that everybody thought were so wonderful?



I think you must have totally forgotten Joao Plata, the hot striker for RSL? 25 goals in 80 appearances, which while not at a Seba rate is quite decent.

He was originally brought in on a loan to Toronto FC.

Update: I see that Ultra & Proud beat me to it.

Yohan
08-19-2016, 10:12 AM
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/18/supporters-shield-in-reach-says-tfcs-vanney

FIFA approved Cooper loan due to paperwork hold up in Panama. So less sketch MLS business I guess.

Scotty74
08-19-2016, 10:32 AM
I know nothing about this guy and there isn' much to get excited about reading about him. I'll wait and see how he pans out, another body added to the roster for the run in can't hurt though. He might take some of Endoh's minutes I guess

ensco
08-19-2016, 11:22 AM
Cabrera was okay in Montreal last year. Ontivero is okay for them this year so far. Quintero has been alright for SJ this season. Aird is okay for the Whitecaps this year. Juninho was good for the Galaxy for years on loan. There are probably more that I could look into on the interwebs but these are the ones I know of off the top of my head that are alright and on loan.

They aren't all busts. A lot don't pan out but some do to some extent. You can't judge the complete value of loans based on actions from the various boner management teams we had in here in our shit years. Even then we had Plata & Cesar so we had successful loans as well.

That's more useful journeymen than I had thought. Juninho, I didn't realize he was a loan for that long. I know there was a LAG cap game in there, can't remember the details now.

Plata wasn't really a loan, more of a structured sale. He went last in the draft because he came with a transfer fee. Same with Cesar - not a loan, that was a short term rental, a publicity stunt, different than a loan, in the meaning of this move.

I stand by my point, but given the names above, have to agree that the loan to MLS can work, sometimes. It really hasn't worked that often though. I think the city, team and player configuration matters to the odds of success, btw. I definitely don't see an older Panamanian being jacked about a loan to Toronto. What Montreal did with a younger player, Cabrera, makes more sense (like what we tried with Stefanovic).

I don't know if he is really a locker room problem (but I suspect it given where he plays). Not trying to be Captain Buzzkill, but this isn't someone coming from River Plate or Sao Paolo, personally I just don't rate guys from Arabe Unido.

I am also trying to see this from the Ososio/Chapman/Delgado/Endoh POV. We have made a huge investment in them, they have shown flashes, andI would stick with that.

Areathrasher
08-19-2016, 01:07 PM
On the delay in doing the deal from the MLS site


Cropper’s move wasn’t the only curious transaction that went down on Thursday.
Toronto FC finally completed the acquisition of Panama national team midfielder Armando Cooper (http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/armando-cooper)yesterday, announcing the signing (http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/08/18/toronto-fc-acquire-panamanian-international-armando-cooper-loan) of the 28-year-old midfielder on loan from Arabe Unido nearly two weeks after MLS’s secondary transfer window closed on Aug. 3.
TFC GM Tim Bezbatchenko told MLSsoccer.com over the phone on Thursday that the loan will run through the end of the season, with Toronto holding an option to buy Cooper outright when the deal ends.
Landing Cooper is a solid pickup for TFC, who gain an experienced, versatile midfielder in the prime of his career for the stretch run. Had the move been announced a couple of weeks ago, there wouldn’t be much intrigue here. But the 15-day gap between Thursday’s news and the transfer deadline begs the question: What was the hold up?
The answer is a bit complicated.
Any transfer or loan deal must be recorded through FIFA’s online transfer matching system. Both participating clubs are required to enter matching details of the transaction – in this case, the terms of the loan agreement – into the system before the close of the transfer window. Once approved, the national federation of the club the player is moving to can request the player’s international transfer certificate (ITC) from the federation he’s leaving.
Bezbatchenko said that Toronto and Arabe Unido had agreed to the loan and that Cooper, TFC and MLS – which owns the contracts of every player in the league – had a contract set well before the close of the window. He added that TFC entered all the required information into the transfer matching system prior to the close of the window and that Arabe Unido claimed to have done the same, but that the transfer matching system didn’t confirm that the deal had gone through.
“Essentially it’s like a wire transfer in a bank. You put in the numbers, then you press the button,” Bezbatchenko said. “Well everyone pressed the button here, but it wasn’t showing up as being received. I think that’s sort of the best way to put it. I wasn’t in Panama, I can’t see when they pressed the button but obviously they believe there might have been technical issues on their end.
“On the system, it was not allowing the final word. Everyone was looking for that word complete to pop up, for ITC received to show, and that never came up.”
Bezbatchenko wasn’t entirely sure if the snafu was caused by a technical glitch or a timing error on the part of Arabe Unido, who may have thought they had until 12:59 am ET on Aug. 4 to complete the deal. The window for MLS’s Canadian teams actually closed an hour earlier, at 11:59 pm ET on Aug. 3.
Because U.S. Soccer’s headquarters are located in Chicago in the Central Time Zone, the transfer window for MLS’s American clubs stays open until 12:59 am ET. The window for the league’s three Canadian teams shuts an hour earlier, as the Canadian Soccer Association’s headquarters are in Toronto, which is on Eastern Time. The time zones are relevant because ITCs are requested by national federations, not clubs.
Regardless of what caused the glitch, it forced both clubs, the CSA and the Panamanian federation to lodge an appeal with FIFA to push the transfer through. They had to collect evidence and submit it to FIFA’s player movement committee, which ruled earlier this week that the loan could go through, allowing Toronto to announce the move on Thursday.
Cooper will now be eligible to play for TFC as soon as he receives his Canadian work permit, giving the club what Bezbatchenko hopes will be a valuable piece as they look to win the Eastern Conference regular season title and move into the playoffs.


Some background here on TMS in case anyone has never heard of it http://www.espnfc.us/blog/marcotti-musings/62/post/2260996/fifa-seek-accountability-in-transfer-market-with-tms-system

Ultra & Proud
08-19-2016, 03:43 PM
I am also trying to see this from the Ososio/Chapman/Delgado/Endoh POV. We have made a huge investment in them, they have shown flashes, andI would stick with that.

Only investment made in any of them are minutes but even then the match action was mostly necessitated by injuries. Not that they can't but if I was running the team I know I'd feel a lot better in a playoff run with an experienced 28 year old guy who has been around than rookies or really young guys. Especially at AM. Having wide depth is never a bad thing either since we have none.

But again, this is based on paper. I am defending the idea not the player. I stick with waiting until I see him with my own eyes before I pass judgment.

Thomas
08-19-2016, 04:33 PM
I'll wait till I see him play before I draw any conclusions. Gotta give him some time to acclimatize too. It will be great if he turns out to be a worthy addition.

Abou Sky
08-20-2016, 06:50 AM
I'm taking the same stance as I did with Vanney.

'prove me wrong '

Vanney has done it in spades.

Maybe this kid needs the right locker room.