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View Full Version : Why is the TFC Academy not producing better quality players?



A Stick
06-01-2016, 10:21 AM
Doneil Henry is probably the best player to come out the academy. Babouli and Osario are ok but the academy needs to be producing better than ok players. Look at how much money MLSE has invested over the years in the academy and the results of their investments are definitely not very good. With all this time, effort and money invested where are the goods?

Pint
06-01-2016, 10:36 AM
The biggest issue is that they have changed philosophy so often that it has hurt development. Most of the guys we are seeing came into the academy later in development cycle as 16+ year olds, the next wave through will be the real test of players who have been with the academy since the u12 ranks.

It doesn't help that we lose players like Petresso, Carriero, Borges etc to european academies.

Henry - sold to EPL
Morgan - bench MLS depth
Osorio - starting mid
Hamilton/Babouli - first tastes of mls action, generally stuck behind big $$ players

Areathrasher
06-01-2016, 10:54 AM
Osorio didn't really come through the TFC academy he was there very briefly after coming back from Uruguay before he got an invite to preseason camp.

Red CB Toronto
06-01-2016, 10:56 AM
Osorio didn't really come through the TFC academy he was there very briefly after coming back from Uruguay before he got an invite to preseason camp.

I dont even think Jonathan qualifed as home grown player if I remember correctly.

burlington Red
06-01-2016, 10:58 AM
Babouli came to TFC when he was 21, so he's not really an academy product either

Pint
06-01-2016, 11:32 AM
Yep, none of these guys came through the youth ranks as we haven't really been a club with an established academy long enough for it to happen.

Fort York Redcoat
06-01-2016, 11:48 AM
The academy should be stocking the USL team with a small percentage climbing to the senior squad. That's it.

Do we not remember when we didn't have a USL team? Academy players were rushed to jump a level and had unrealistic expectations put on them. Let's not return to that.

TFC Tifoso
06-01-2016, 11:54 AM
I say give it a generation (10-15 years or so) of players to pass through.....I liken it to what we're seeing with the boom of Canadians now in NCAA/NBA......the "Vince Carter generation" who were able to watch a guy like him play in our city and the ability to finally be able to relate to a player/team in Canada....these players are now having an impact in college and the pros......I am hoping the same is currently happening to the young kids playing soccer now and how it relates to TFC.....

of course, there is a big difference in what goes in to coaching/resources at the NCAA level in comparison to a MLS/TFC academy level, but interest can hopefully drive its advancement, or make even more resources go towards it than what has already been given......

C.Ronaldo
06-01-2016, 01:45 PM
The biggest issue is that they have changed philosophy so often that it has hurt development. Most of the guys we are seeing came into the academy later in development cycle as 16+ year olds, the next wave through will be the real test of players who have been with the academy since the u12 ranks.

It doesn't help that we lose players like Petresso, Carriero, Borges etc to european academies.

Henry - sold to EPL
Morgan - bench MLS depth
Osorio - starting mid
Hamilton/Babouli - first tastes of mls action, generally stuck behind big $$ players

chapmans up here (not proven obviously)
manella is rready from what I can see
Edwards too
same with Roberts

We have guys ready for a chance

TheGoodson
06-01-2016, 01:55 PM
As Pint stated above an academy can not develop players when they come in at 15-16 years old, the players already have bad habits.

IIRC TFC introduced U9 last year or the year before, when those kids come of age to be signed you will see the quality of the academy.

Also, supposedly the kid who scored for TFCII on the weekend is the best and brightest talent in the academy at the moment

Pint
06-01-2016, 01:58 PM
As Pint stated above an academy can not develop players when they come in at 15-16 years old, the players already have bad habits.

IIRC TFC introduced U9 last year or the year before, when those kids come of age to be signed you will see the quality of the academy.

Also, supposedly the kid who scored for TFCII on the weekend is the best and brightest talent in the academy at the moment

Hundal? scored professional goal at 16 years old so not too shabby. Keep an eye out for Luca Uccelo as well, kids got some skills.

TheGoodson
06-01-2016, 02:03 PM
Hundal? scored professional goal at 16 years old so not too shabby. Keep an eye out for Luca Uccelo as well, kids got some skills.

Yes, Hundal, I know a few people connected to the club and they raved about him and his potential.

The academy has had a few players poached as well Petrasso is the only one I can think of off the top of my head

Pint
06-01-2016, 02:08 PM
Yes, Hundal, I know a few people connected to the club and they raved about him and his potential.

The academy has had a few players poached as well Petrasso is the only one I can think of off the top of my head

Petrasso and Carriero (may be spelling it wrong) both went to QPR at the same time, which i think is what made TFC jump to sign Hamilton to a pro contract at 17 or 18 years old.

Borges went to Heerenveen recently and as far as i recall was very highly thought of.

Ricardo Ferriera was also with TFC academy briefly before going to Portugal if i remember correctly

SirBobSaget
06-01-2016, 02:08 PM
If the USL team was in place a few years ago then guys like Petrasso may have stuck around. There was no natural progression/step to bridge academy to MLS for the 17/18 years olds. Now there is.

Yohan
06-01-2016, 02:29 PM
Yes, Hundal, I know a few people connected to the club and they raved about him and his potential.

The academy has had a few players poached as well Petrasso is the only one I can think of off the top of my head

Aleman, Carreiro. Teibert sort of.

Greatest Ripoff
06-02-2016, 10:13 AM
A few thoughts.

I think any real sucess or failures so far can't be blamed or attributed to TFC as the majority of players have joined around 15 or 16 years of age. This age is a little to late for TFC to have a major negative or positive impact.

I heard this stat on a podcast walking into work this morning but apparently there have only ever been 6 home grown players to play 100 or more MLS matches and two of them are TFC players.

I think one of the great disappointments was Nicholas Lindsay's career. I thought he had real promise when he joined the first team from the academy. I remember him playing in the final game against DCU at RFK one season (2010?) and he looked really good. I think TFC won 3-1. I went into that off season being really excited about getting to see him the following year for a full season but he had that accident and wrecked his knee.

spark
06-06-2016, 09:32 AM
To circle back to the OP, and what Pint said, 100% the turnover at TFC and philosophy changes have IMO greatly damaged where TFC is now with regards to youth development. And it's not just inside the academy but reputation within Ontario for parents/kids.

I ramble on about it probably too much, but the near exact comparison is Sigma who started their academy in 2007 and has had almost zero coaching turnover and kept the same philosophy. As well, they had two groups right off the start of 11yr olds and 14 yr olds. It's likely no coincidence that 11yr old group includes players such as Larin, Laryea, Awuah, etc ...

I think Pint also noted 14-16 is a bit late as players have already had a couple key years in development at that point and some of TFC's top prospects right now (Uccello, for example) joined at 14 IIRC. But that age group they did scoop up some of the best players in the province. However, a criticism would be that an academy shouldn't be about poaching top players from local clubs, but taking kids at 11 implementing a development path/roadmap/cycle and actually molding them into professional footballers - that is what Sigma does and IMO TFC has yet to do.

ag futbol
06-06-2016, 10:50 AM
Babouli and Osorio were both developed elsewhere. They just jumped into TFC or TFC II at the last minute.

I wouldn't say this academy is a failure by any means but they could definitely improve. When you're competition, a pay-for-play outfit with some agency connections, is producing nearly as many MLS players you have to look at what could be done better.

Let's be open to the fact many guys we've brought in could still make it (Hamilton, for example). I think there is a bit of a dark period as well in and around the Mariner / Winter / Rongen years as all that turnover and strife did the setup absolutely no good.

PopePouri
06-06-2016, 11:24 AM
Saying certain players developed elsewhere way oversimplifies the process because player development is so nuanced. I wouldn't blame the academy for a player fails to live up to potential when there's so many variables that make a good soccer pro like work habits, motivation and confidence, health and injury history, grassroots development, personal life problems. What we can say is that TFC had a positive influence on the development of Oso and Babouli in some way as well as Petrasso, Henry, Morgan and Teibert.

In the end, TFC's situation will improve for a number of reasons:

1) What they may not have in quality of player in their system like Sigma, they'll make up with sheer quantity by poaching from L1O.
2) The USL team will payoff significantly by the amount of players getting professional minutes.
3) Their recruitment policy for the first team will changing to only sign players that will prove themselves at the USL level.
4) The agreement with the Soccer Ontario will help sooth possible tensions with various clubs.
5) Hiring good people like Neely and Steven Caldwell.

This is all above and beyond the archaic yet still relied on process of signing college players.

denime
06-07-2016, 06:21 AM
Saying certain players developed elsewhere way oversimplifies the process because player development is so nuanced. I wouldn't blame the academy for a player fails to live up to potential when there's so many variables that make a good soccer pro like work habits, motivation and confidence, health and injury history, grassroots development, personal life problems. What we can say is that TFC had a positive influence on the development of Oso and Babouli in some way as well as Petrasso, Henry, Morgan and Teibert.

In the end, TFC's situation will improve for a number of reasons:

1) What they may not have in quality of player in their system like Sigma, they'll make up with sheer quantity by poaching from L1O.
2) The USL team will payoff significantly by the amount of players getting professional minutes.
3) Their recruitment policy for the first team will changing to only sign players that will prove themselves at the USL level.
4) The agreement with the Soccer Ontario will help sooth possible tensions with various clubs.
5) Hiring good people like Neely and Steven Caldwell.

This is all above and beyond the archaic yet still relied on process of signing college players.


HAHAHA, Hiring two Scottish guys will improve TFC Academy :smilielol5:, man you made my day with this statement.


Only way to improve academy development is to make TFC academy separate entity from 1st team turmoil and politics that we had with 1st team coaching stuff since day one,that slowed down processes of proper development. Focus for academy should be players development,not winning leagues.

Hire coaches outside of province,coaches without agendas and favoritism to their former clubs and rep teams,coaches with understanding that soccer is not boot the ball and chase it down,something you can see often if you watch Senior Academy playing in League 1,whose coach is Neely,go figure.

Stick with program,Sigma has decent success because they are running same strategy and development since day one, all teams are playing same system.Every January during winter break ,all Sigma coaches are in Europe for two weeks to learn and upgrade their knowledge,pick up new things in soccer development,etc

TFC USL team is made of TFC Academy players who are at US Colleges and back to TO for summer break,and few senior academy players,don't see how much that will help for development,when senior academy player sits on the bench ,while college players are playing.

When it comes to recruitment of younger ages,that's not easy,this is not an exact science and mistakes can be made,that's normal.

Where I see a big problem is, when TFC offers senior Academy players academy contracts only if those players sign with soccer agent that works with TFC,or better to say,an agent who has most of TFC players under his agency,and if you denied to sign with him,you are out of TFC future plans. I know this first hand,boy who already has agent and wanted to sign with TFC, but not with that agency,went from team cap. to bench and being played out of his position,game after game. I'm sure first chance to jump oversees,this player is gone, like many other mentioned in previous posts.

Pint
06-07-2016, 07:28 AM
TFC went with an international for the Academy Director position with Laurent Guyot who was coaching Frances U-16 team before coming here.

It appeared to be a good hire at the time but I'm not overly familiar with the development side of the game.

Haven't heard much if anything about him since he arrived.

molenshtain
06-07-2016, 07:59 AM
HAHAHA, Hiring two Scottish guys will improve TFC Academy :smilielol5:, man you made my day with this statement.


Only way to improve academy development is to make TFC academy separate entity from 1st team turmoil and politics that we had with 1st team coaching stuff since day one,that slowed down processes of proper development. Focus for academy should be players development,not winning leagues.

Hire coaches outside of province,coaches without agendas and favoritism to their former clubs and rep teams,coaches with understanding that soccer is not boot the ball and chase it down,something you can see often if you watch Senior Academy playing in League 1,whose coach is Neely,go figure.

Stick with program,Sigma has decent success because they are running same strategy and development since day one, all teams are playing same system.Every January during winter break ,all Sigma coaches are in Europe for two weeks to learn and upgrade their knowledge,pick up new things in soccer development,etc

TFC USL team is made of TFC Academy players who are at US Colleges and back to TO for summer break,and few senior academy players,don't see how much that will help for development,when senior academy player sits on the bench ,while college players are playing.

When it comes to recruitment of younger ages,that's not easy,this is not an exact science and mistakes can be made,that's normal.

Where I see a big problem is, when TFC offers senior Academy players academy contracts only if those players sign with soccer agent that works with TFC,or better to say,an agent who has most of TFC players under his agency,and if you denied to sign with him,you are out of TFC future plans. I know this first hand,boy who already has agent and wanted to sign with TFC, but not with that agency,went from team cap. to bench and being played out of his position,game after game. I'm sure first chance to jump oversees,this player is gone, like many other mentioned in previous posts.


....

A Stick
06-07-2016, 09:29 AM
I can't believe this shit is still happening! :mad5:

Where I see a big problem is, when TFC offers senior Academy players academy contracts only if those players sign with soccer agent that works with TFC,or better to say,an agent who has most of TFC players under his agency,and if you denied to sign with him,you are out of TFC future plans. I know this first hand,boy who already has agent and wanted to sign with TFC, but not with that agency,went from team cap. to bench and being played out of his position,game after game. I'm sure first chance to jump oversees,this player is gone, like many other mentioned in previous posts.

molenshtain
06-07-2016, 09:40 AM
I don't think it does^^

If there are guys on the team who were signed under those circumstances, they were signed before Bez/Leiweke/Manning/Vanney came.

OgtheDim
06-07-2016, 10:49 AM
Anybody know how the RSL academy was in the Manning times for those sort of shenanigans?

ryan
06-07-2016, 05:27 PM
How old is the Academy? A few years? Yeah, there's just not enough time for this discussion IMO. Get back to me in 15 years for a real sample size I'd say.

denime
06-08-2016, 06:05 AM
I can't believe this shit is still happening! :mad5:

Where I see a big problem is, when TFC offers senior Academy players academy contracts only if those players sign with soccer agent that works with TFC,or better to say,an agent who has most of TFC players under his agency,and if you denied to sign with him,you are out of TFC future plans. I know this first hand,boy who already has agent and wanted to sign with TFC, but not with that agency,went from team cap. to bench and being played out of his position,game after game. I'm sure first chance to jump oversees,this player is gone, like many other mentioned in previous posts.


I don't think it does^^

If there are guys on the team who were signed under those circumstances, they were signed before Bez/Leiweke/Manning/Vanney came.


It still does,it happened few months ago,I know parents and the boy for many years,he use to play with my son. I just don't want to go into details,last thing I need is someone from TFC to read this and retaliate,boy and parents wanted to sign,but not with agent.


One player that decided to sign with this agent is now with TFC USL team,other one demoted ,even-thought both of them are U 1? national team players, demoted one now will leave for Europe because TFC made it clear,sign with this agent and contract is waiting for you.

Agent is well know for many of us who are here from day one, Barry MacLean,former CEO of both Santio Sports + Entertainment and First Wave Sports Marketing,now President of Beswicks Sports North America ,he is still heavily involved in with TFC.


And lets make one thing clear,this is normal in the world of soccer,this is happening all over the world,players agents are running and ruining clubs,why should TFC be any different?

molenshtain
06-08-2016, 09:13 AM
Fair enough^^

My understanding of the situation was that a lot of the shitty practices such as these that were rampant from Johnstone through Payne were eradicated for the most part when new management came in. I know for sure that they've done a lot of much needed community outreach and bridge building with key figures and clubs they'd previously shunned for whatever stupid reason. It's too bad this stuff still happens though.

spark
06-08-2016, 10:32 AM
Agent is well know for many of us who are here from day one, Barry MacLean,former CEO of both Santio Sports + Entertainment and First Wave Sports Marketing,now President of Beswicks Sports North America ,he is still heavily involved in with TFC.

Sickening.

A Stick
06-08-2016, 11:04 AM
I guess the Toronto media that reports on TFC won't cover this issue with a 10 foot pole.

Oblio2
06-08-2016, 11:20 AM
How old is the Academy? A few years? Yeah, there's just not enough time for this discussion IMO. Get back to me in 15 years for a real sample size I'd say.

Exactly.
It takes years and a small % of players make it. Jesus, hold off a few years then come back

james
06-08-2016, 11:23 AM
it will take time to develop. Jumping to quick to conclusions. Takes time to build on.

Initial B
06-08-2016, 11:48 AM
I guess the Toronto media that reports on TFC won't cover this issue with a 10 foot pole.
Send a tip to the Toronto Star. They love this sort of controversy. g:D

ag futbol
06-08-2016, 02:57 PM
How old is the Academy? A few years? Yeah, there's just not enough time for this discussion IMO. Get back to me in 15 years for a real sample size I'd say.
So carte blanche for 15 years then? We can certainly benchmark to the rest of the league, at the very least. You don't just wake up after more than a decade and become FCB.

I think they're doing okay. Room for improvement but not terrible.

Pint
06-16-2016, 10:20 AM
Windsor Stars become Windsor TFC.

Sounds like they are turning it into a Satellite academy of sorts

Fort York Redcoat
06-16-2016, 10:39 AM
Windsor Stars become Windsor TFC.

Sounds like they are turning it into a Satellite academy of sorts

Might as well before Detroit FC comes about.

Pint
06-16-2016, 10:44 AM
Might as well before Detroit FC comes about.

With Vancouver establishing a similar relationship in London it makes sense that TFC went in a direction like this. Now potentially doing something like this in St Catherines area would also make sense if they want to leverage the area.

Yohan
06-16-2016, 10:54 AM
If TFC isn't creating relationships with top youth teams all around Southern Ontario, they are doing it wrong.

Many MLS teams are doing precisely this to pouch top talents.

Pint
06-16-2016, 11:03 AM
If TFC isn't creating relationships with top youth teams all around Southern Ontario, they are doing it wrong.

Many MLS teams are doing precisely this to pouch top talents.

Believe they are doing it but i think this is different in that it becomes a satellite academy

Areathrasher
06-16-2016, 02:33 PM
Figure this is a good place to put this. Will Parchman from TDS did an article on the the HG's that should be signed. One of TFCs academy was included.


F Ayo Akinola (http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-player-profile/ayo-akinola/pid-74301), Toronto FC
The Toronto FC academy is often shrouded from wider American view. Since it doesn’t compete in the Development Academy, it only emerges for showcase and international events, and the soft truth is that Canadian academies just tend to penetrate the market less below the border line. Which is a shame because all three Canadian MLS academies are pushing boundaries in their own way. For Toronto FC, that means a multi-million dollar training complex and facilities it shares with the first team.
Akinola has benefitted more than most. There are a number of ballyhooed prospects in TFC’s academy, but none of them have more promise than Akinola. Gallingly for Canada, Akinola was born in Canada but has American citizenship, and U.S. Soccer didn’t rest on its haunches. The No. 7 player in the 2018 class was first called in to a U14 BNT camp in 2014, and he had his breakout on April 27, 2015 when he put four goals past Croatia for the U15 BNT. Ever since, he’s been intimately involved in the U.S. setup, and he’s likely to get a long look for the U17 World Cup next year. This is all decidedly good news for TFC, which has a center forward playing at a high level for both club and country. A diminutive 5-foot-7 back-to-goal threat who can also turn and burn, Akinola fills a unique niche in the country’s growing repertoire of quality center forwards.


http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-mls-youth-movement-reaches-hgs_aid39327

Oldtimer
06-16-2016, 02:37 PM
Figure this is a good place to put this. Will Parchman from TDS did an article on the the HG's that should be signed. One of TFCs academy was included.



http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-mls-youth-movement-reaches-hgs_aid39327

CSA miss calling up a promising Canadian talent, only to have them scooped by another country? Never heard of that happening before. :banghead:

Pint
06-16-2016, 02:45 PM
A canadian who plays for the US shouldn't be in our development ranks IMO unless they think he will switch to represent canada

I wouldn't accept Jonathan De Guzman or Teal Bunbury on the 1st team

OgtheDim
06-16-2016, 03:00 PM
TFC development needs to be for TFC. Not for a specific country, nor a specific agent.

The vast majority will be Canadian prospects. If it happens to be somebody who plays for another country, as far as TFC development is concerned, that's their issue.

Pint
06-16-2016, 03:24 PM
I know I'm in the minority with that opinion but really what is the difference between him representing America and what whoregraves, bunbury, de guzman did. I guess he still has time to switch back but he doesn't appear to have any intention to do so.

OgtheDim
06-16-2016, 03:28 PM
He's a kid in an academy. Our academy. Everything and anything else that adds to his learning curve is gravy.

notthesun
06-16-2016, 04:30 PM
Akinola was added to the TFC II player pool and was subbed on vs. FC Montreal on Wednesday, by the way. Had one chance in stoppage time saved by Crepeau.

Fort York Redcoat
06-17-2016, 07:25 AM
I know I'm in the minority with that opinion but really what is the difference between him representing America and what whoregraves, bunbury, de guzman did. I guess he still has time to switch back but he doesn't appear to have any intention to do so.

AHEM.

In this you stand not alone.:canada:

Macksam
12-11-2016, 03:42 PM
CSA miss calling up a promising Canadian talent, only to have them scooped by another country? Never heard of that happening before. :banghead:
The word is TFC's American heavy coaching staff encouraged him to choose the USA. Disgusting in all honesty.

I know I'm in the minority with that opinion but really what is the difference between him representing America and what whoregraves, bunbury, de guzman did. I guess he still has time to switch back but he doesn't appear to have any intention to do so.
This is worse considering he's a Canadian born and raised here plus he's developing here unlike the others mentioned.

TFC development needs to be for TFC. Not for a specific country, nor a specific agent.

The vast majority will be Canadian prospects. If it happens to be somebody who plays for another country, as far as TFC development is concerned, that's their issue.
If TFC encouraged him to join the Yanks like what's being suggested, that becomes a TFC issue. There's a reason I don't support this club in any financial way anymore.

Shakes McQueen
12-11-2016, 03:55 PM
The word is TFC's American heavy coaching staff encouraged him to choose the USA. Disgusting in all honesty.

I'd need something more concrete than "the word is", before I got exercised about it one way or another.

troy1982
12-11-2016, 06:46 PM
The word is TFC's American heavy coaching staff encouraged him to choose the USA. Disgusting in all honesty.

This is worse considering he's a Canadian born and raised here plus he's developing here unlike the others mentioned.

If TFC encouraged him to join the Yanks like what's being suggested, that becomes a TFC issue. There's a reason I don't support this club in any financial way anymore.

For me TFC's academy is to develop players for TFC's not the Canadian national team. let the CSA develop it's own players.
I wish TFC would recruiter the best promising young talent from through CONCACAF actually. I don't care which national team they play for.

james
12-11-2016, 06:51 PM
Need to start players from a young age, younger then they had in the passed. Also takes lots of money, many Euro clubs invest much more money, also will take years to develop the players. Hopefully in the next 10 years we will see more better players come through the ranks.

Macksam
12-11-2016, 07:26 PM
For me TFC's academy is to develop players for TFC's not the Canadian national team. let the CSA develop it's own players.
I wish TFC would recruiter the best promising young talent from through CONCACAF actually. I don't care which national team they play for.

If MLS was a league with revenues on the level of the premier league, sure. However, it isn't. MLS has a domestic quota and currently is a development league to help produce American, and now Canadian(don't want to get in the domestic issue debate) talent.

Anyhow, the main issue here is someone who is born, raised and developing here should play for said country. No ifs, ands or buts.

Also, the only way TFC is going to gain long term traction in this city isif the club becomes, like I said above, major league where the team salary becomes at least 30 million plus, in which case I would say scrap the domestic player quota and try to find the best talent, or the team becomes heavy on locally developed talent. People will care a lot more for a 5 million dollar salary capped team with kids from the GTA than one with kids from the Caribbean.

Teflon
12-12-2016, 02:04 AM
I think they're just a bit rough around the edges. They have better potential.

jeff.b
12-12-2016, 01:48 PM
If TFC isn't creating relationships with top youth teams all around Southern Ontario, they are doing it wrong.

Many MLS teams are doing precisely this to pouch top talents.

TFC Academy was as dysfunctional as the parent club for many years having first hand experience with them dealing with my son since he was 9.

Last year the whitecaps set up shop a couple hours down the road in London and I think this finally woke up the folks running the academy as TFC struck back by aligning themselves with the League 1 team and their youth academy in London, for whom my son plays.

This was great news for me personally as my son had been approached in the past to join the TFC academy but we could never commit to the training given the commute distance. Now he has TFC coaches that monitor his progress with his current club and we follow the same technical direction as the TFC academy.

I'd hope that they strike similar partnerships with the other League 1 teams and academies.

izzyzz
12-17-2016, 04:49 PM
Send a tip to the Toronto Star. They love this sort of controversy. g:D

+1. If you have concrete evidence to share, it's best to get in touch with the media. Posting in anonymous forums won't do much, though I do appreciate you sharing the story. I had no idea such crap is going on behind the scenes.

reggie
12-17-2016, 05:55 PM
what are you guys talking about.what controversy?

molenshtain
12-17-2016, 10:02 PM
what are you guys talking about.what controversy?

That The club supposedly engages in the common but not very nice practice of making youth players sign with specific agents that are friendly to the club.

again, supposedly.

troy1982
12-17-2016, 11:45 PM
If MLS was a league with revenues on the level of the premier league, sure. However, it isn't. MLS has a domestic quota and currently is a development league to help produce American, and now Canadian(don't want to get in the domestic issue debate) talent.

Anyhow, the main issue here is someone who is born, raised and developing here should play for said country. No ifs, ands or buts.

Also, the only way TFC is going to gain long term traction in this city isif the club becomes, like I said above, major league where the team salary becomes at least 30 million plus, in which case I would say scrap the domestic player quota and try to find the best talent, or the team becomes heavy on locally developed talent. People will care a lot more for a 5 million dollar salary capped team with kids from the GTA than one with kids from the Caribbean.

I don't care and I am sure most people done care what country the academy kids want to represent.
What business is it of yours if a kids wants to represent another country other than Canada.
The public, rightfully, is not complaining that the Blue Jays and the Raptors aren't developing Canadian players so I don't see why they would start complaining about TFC.

SirBobSaget
12-18-2016, 12:46 AM
I don't care and I am sure most people done care what country the academy kids want to represent.
What business is it of yours if a kids wants to represent another country other than Canada.
The public, rightfully, is not complaining that the Blue Jays and the Raptors aren't developing Canadian players so I don't see why they would start complaining about TFC.

Blue Jays and Raptors don't develop players. They are already 20+ when drafted. Soccer is a unique institution where clubs are allowed to develop their own local talent. Imagine id the same for NHL if the Leafs were allowed to grow and claim all hockey youth players in the GTA!

Now a majority of TFC fans are also passionate supporters of the CMNT. If the club and the fans sponsor a youth players development we would rather that player if he turns profesional be on board with the CMNT.

reggie
12-18-2016, 10:01 AM
i want them to develop good Canadian players ,its not that bad right now.TFC2 has about 60% Canadian ratio but all the other age groups are probs 95 to 100 % canadian,sure we may lose the odd player player,it will take some time.

Leedsoronto
12-18-2016, 10:51 AM
TFC 2 will lose a lot of players, it's usual for them to rid players that stay loyal to the club and play well, TFC policy seems to be a no point keeping players if they not making the 1st team within a few years.

reggie
12-18-2016, 10:57 AM
thats life in the world of sports.

Leedsoronto
12-18-2016, 11:26 AM
thats life in the world of sports.

Yup sure is, shame we only got one big club as the majority of them USL and L1O players just go to waste. (Few make it elsewhere) Mark Anthony Kaye and Larin

troy1982
12-18-2016, 01:58 PM
Blue Jays and Raptors don't develop players. They are already 20+ when drafted. Soccer is a unique institution where clubs are allowed to develop their own local talent. Imagine id the same for NHL if the Leafs were allowed to grow and claim all hockey youth players in the GTA!

Now a majority of TFC fans are also passionate supporters of the CMNT. If the club and the fans sponsor a youth players development we would rather that player if he turns profesional be on board with the CMNT.


Do you have any proof that most TFC fans are passionate supporters of the CMNT. Personally I don't care how the CMNT does or see any responsibility for TFC to do anything for the CMNT.

Oldtimer
12-18-2016, 02:29 PM
There's enough talent in the GTA to keep the academy stocked with talent, so I don't really see a club vs country conflict here.

SirBobSaget
12-19-2016, 12:37 AM
Do you have any proof that most TFC fans are passionate supporters of the CMNT. Personally I don't care how the CMNT does or see any responsibility for TFC to do anything for the CMNT.

I hope you are not Canadian otherwise this a very anger inducing statement. Why would you not care about the CMNT at all? Fair enough if a USMNT high potential player gets developed for the hope of compensation or first team contribution that's good. But to say you don't care about CMNT that's infuriating to me. I want both TFC to win and CMNT to grow.

TFC07
12-19-2016, 12:44 AM
A good CMNT is good business for TFC. If soccer is truly going to take off in this country, then winning CMNT that consistently plays in World Cup is a must.

So losing one of our better Academy players to CONCACAF rival is going to hurt CMNT and indirectly TFC.

So yes, people who want soccer to grow in this country are going to be angry about this news.

OgtheDim
12-19-2016, 06:59 AM
Do you have any proof that most TFC fans are passionate supporters of the CMNT. Personally I don't care how the CMNT does or see any responsibility for TFC to do anything for the CMNT.

Not sure which country you support but imagine a team in that country not giving a shit about the NT.

(I remain unconvinced that this is actually going on as we seem to be just getting hearsay and there have been a number of articles from TFC about academy products playing for various Canadian U-# teams)

Leedsoronto
12-19-2016, 11:09 AM
Chris Mannella tweeted he moving on.

Watched this kid since he arrived, calm, cool and collected player, always made the hard centre mid job look easy.

He would have been a keep in my book but again, never really given a chance to show what he could do on the bigger stage

reggie
12-19-2016, 11:23 AM
speaking of moving on...tfc2 cleaned out a few players today.sorry cant add the link.

Leedsoronto
12-19-2016, 11:38 AM
speaking of moving on...tfc2 cleaned out a few players today.sorry cant add the link.

Toronto FC II have not exercised the option on midfielder Martin Davis. In addition, defenders Skylar Thomas, Wesley Charpie; midfielders Adam Bouchard, Sal Bernal and forward Ben Spencer’s contracts will expire at the end of the year making them free agents.

Following the expiry of their loans, goalkeeper Nathan Ingham has returned to FC Edmonton of the North American Soccer League (NASL) and defender Triston Hodge has returned to W Connection F.C. of the TT Pro League.


Toronto FC II’s 2017 roster as it currently stands:

Defenders (2): Mitchell Taintor, Anthony Osorio

Midfielders (6): Luca Uccello, Brian James, Aidan Daniels, Malik Johnson, Liam Fraser, Bubacarr Jobe

Forwards (3): Raheem Edwards, Ricardo John, Shaan Hundal

CanadaLFC
12-19-2016, 11:54 AM
^Interesting.

I always thought Skylar Thomas was good.

jabbronies
12-19-2016, 12:16 PM
Do you have any proof that most TFC fans are passionate supporters of the CMNT. Personally I don't care how the CMNT does or see any responsibility for TFC to do anything for the CMNT.


I hope you are not Canadian otherwise this a very anger inducing statement. Why would you not care about the CMNT at all? Fair enough if a USMNT high potential player gets developed for the hope of compensation or first team contribution that's good. But to say you don't care about CMNT that's infuriating to me. I want both TFC to win and CMNT to grow.


I'm a TFC fan, but I wouldn't call myself a passionate CMNT supporter - I support them, but at this point in time I don't care about them. Their professionalism is on the same level as the Argos - a complete joke of an institution. They don't deserve any support outside of a high school stadium sized attendance.

I would not want TFC to shackle itself to the CMNT program in any way - including getting players to commit to that shitty association.

Joe Kool
12-19-2016, 12:18 PM
There's enough talent in the GTA to keep the academy stocked with talent, so I don't really see a club vs country conflict here.

Talking with the head of my son's club in Durham about TFC Academy and he said they won't even send anyone to see a kid play if they are not in the Toronto or Woodbridge/Vaughan area so not quite the whole GTA when it comes to talent pool. TFC told him that they wouldn't come when he asked them to come see a couple of good prospects that were playing at our club last year. I guess Ajax is too far from Kia training grounds? Our club head told us parents at the beginning of the season that if we ever wanted our sons to play with TFC academy that we should move to a Toronto club to have a better chance at getting seen. He didn't want us to leave our Durham club but he wanted to be honest with us about how narrow sighted TFC academy was. So it sounds to me like TFC Academy could be missing lots of good prospects that won't get a look due to playing in the outer parts of the GTA. Too bad if true.

troy1982
12-19-2016, 01:04 PM
I'm a TFC fan, but I wouldn't call myself a passionate CMNT supporter - I support them, but at this point in time I don't care about them. Their professionalism is on the same level as the Argos - a complete joke of an institution. They don't deserve any support outside of a high school stadium sized attendance.

I would not want TFC to shackle itself to the CMNT program in any way - including getting players to commit to that shitty association.


You said it better than I did and that is exactly how I feel.
If the CSA is going to be hostile to TFC then maybe they should develop their own players and let TFC develop players for TFC.

Adamo23
12-19-2016, 05:24 PM
A bit off topic but TFC just revealed their league one team will be called "Toronto FC III". Tbh go by the letters format ; etc Toronto FC B, Toronto FC C

Leedsoronto
12-19-2016, 06:44 PM
A bit off topic but TFC just revealed their league one team will be called "Toronto FC III". Tbh go by the letters format ; etc Toronto FC B, Toronto FC C

Sounds good to me, most teams are doing the 1 11 111 format it fits nice

CanadaLFC
12-22-2016, 11:00 AM
The press release stated that Pod 1 (TFC3) would play in L1O. Does that mean that we are no longer competing in the PDL at all?

Fort York Redcoat
12-24-2016, 01:34 PM
A bit off topic but TFC just revealed their league one team will be called "Toronto FC III". Tbh go by the letters format ; etc Toronto FC B, Toronto FC C

Branding. They'd rather go with the weaker "III" than "C" because "II" looked great and still does. I prefer it.

Macksam
01-06-2017, 01:29 AM
I don't care and I am sure most people done care what country the academy kids want to represent.
What business is it of yours if a kids wants to represent another country other than Canada.
The public, rightfully, is not complaining that the Blue Jays and the Raptors aren't developing Canadian players so I don't see why they would start complaining about TFC.

That analogy doesn't even make sense as the Raps and Jays don't produce players.

A person born and raised here, developing as an athlete here should represent said country, and I'm sure most people would be on my side of the argument. Why do you think support in the men's national team has increased ten fold since TFC came to town?

Fort York Redcoat
01-06-2017, 09:06 AM
Do you have any proof that most TFC fans are passionate supporters of the CMNT. Personally I don't care how the CMNT does or see any responsibility for TFC to do anything for the CMNT.

Do you have any proof that the majority of TFC have never watched football played outside of Toronto? I'd say that's because most have watched and enjoy International play. If one watches International play but doesn't care about the country they live in that really doesn't help the game in that country. I'm glad holdouts like yourself aren't growing in numbers.


You said it better than I did and that is exactly how I feel.
If the CSA is going to be hostile to TFC then maybe they should develop their own players and let TFC develop players for TFC.

There is no proof of hostility and going with attitudes like yours- what leg would they have to stand on but patriotism? The CSA has no upper hand when talking to these clubs and rely on the players wanting to help improve the nations rank. And FYI every country RELIES on club training. EVERY country. Even the one you follow. Whatever country that may be.

Fort York Redcoat
01-06-2017, 09:12 AM
I'm a TFC fan, but I wouldn't call myself a passionate CMNT supporter - I support them, but at this point in time I don't care about them. Their professionalism is on the same level as the Argos - a complete joke of an institution. They don't deserve any support outside of a high school stadium sized attendance.

I would not want TFC to shackle itself to the CMNT program in any way - including getting players to commit to that shitty association.

HAHA I wouldn't call you one either, jabbs.

I disagree with the institution remark. The CSA improvement on the womens side of things can't be denied. That's part of the institution.

I disagree with your style of support in general. It having to be deserved at all. I didn't apply that to club and I won't apply it to country.

I'm not sure how you think the CSA turns around with out the help of Canadian players. Or are you content with letting other Canadian clubs do the work until the CSA is worthy for your TFC players??

Hamilton_Red
01-06-2017, 10:10 AM
I hope you are not Canadian otherwise this a very anger inducing statement. Why would you not care about the CMNT at all? Fair enough if a USMNT high potential player gets developed for the hope of compensation or first team contribution that's good. But to say you don't care about CMNT that's infuriating to me. I want both TFC to win and CMNT to grow.

I'd go a step further...Can you even be a good TFC fan if you don't support CMNT and the development of Canadian players? I'd say no. If the MLS were to have three US teams placed in Canada's biggest soccer markets and hive off all the money and resources for soccer i the country - the CSA shoild be obliged to shut down MLS in Canada. - joint league has to good for bith countries not just one.

jabbronies
01-06-2017, 11:10 AM
I'm not sure how you think the CSA turns around with out the help of Canadian players. Or are you content with letting other Canadian clubs do the work until the CSA is worthy for your TFC players??

Did you bother to follow the conversation being had when you replied with this comment?

The idea was that a player coming into TFC Academy should be tied to representing the CMNT - which I think is completely the wrong direction the club should be focused on. if there are players who are good enough to be in the Academy who are Canadian and wish to represent Canada - then great for Canada! However, to force a player coming in to align with the National program is detrimental to the clubs focus on developing players for the first team.

Fort York Redcoat
01-06-2017, 11:23 AM
Did you bother to follow the conversation being had when you replied with this comment?

The idea was that a player coming into TFC Academy should be tied to representing the CMNT - which I think is completely the wrong direction the club should be focused on. if there are players who are good enough to be in the Academy who are Canadian and wish to represent Canada - then great for Canada! However, to force a player coming in to align with the National program is detrimental to the clubs focus on developing players for the first team.

I don't see the semantics argument on this page. Where is the "forcing" of Canadians to align with the National program link?

I can't wait for another Canadian league for the addition of development. Three clubs is not enough.

Toronto Ruffrider
01-06-2017, 11:37 PM
I don't see the semantics argument on this page. Where is the "forcing" of Canadians to align with the National program link?

I can't wait for another Canadian league for the addition of development. Three clubs is not enough.

Totally agreed with your post. I don't see anyone forcing academy players to suit up for Canada. To me it is almost a hypothetical problem for a team such as TFC to develop more than a small handful of players who come from abroad. Realistically most academy players will continue to be born and raised locally, so they will most certainly play for Canada without much (if any) arm twisting.

That said, I will be really glad when the CPL (or whatever name the league is known by) is up and running. Three clubs wouldn't even be enough if each club dressed a plethora of Canadians regularly.

jabbronies
01-09-2017, 10:48 AM
@Fort York Redcoat
@Toronto ruffrider

This is the post that sparked my comment


Blue Jays and Raptors don't develop players. They are already 20+ when drafted. Soccer is a unique institution where clubs are allowed to develop their own local talent. Imagine id the same for NHL if the Leafs were allowed to grow and claim all hockey youth players in the GTA!

Now a majority of TFC fans are also passionate supporters of the CMNT. If the club and the fans sponsor a youth players development we would rather that player if he turns profesional be on board with the CMNT.

C.Ronaldo
01-09-2017, 03:04 PM
how many years before you think TFC opens up its academy in other towns or cities.

City of Toronto has a few academies from out of town teams or links to them.
The best one obviously is http://www.sportingfc.ca/ Obviously!

Fort York Redcoat
01-09-2017, 04:57 PM
@Fort York Redcoat
@Toronto ruffrider

This is the post that sparked my comment

Which is why it sparked my semantics comment.

One person would take his comment generalizing "a majority of support for an Accie that prefers to be on board with the Nats" as putting a cart before a donkey, like yourself, while my take is that there is no "forcing" going on until I get links from people with accounts of losing Accies because they wouldn't take the call for the U-whatever Nats.

I get you don't want anything interfering or any reservation in an Academy kids mind from focusing on the club side. I think it's a ridiculous few kids that would think or have it take away from their game.

We both want what's best for the kids. We disagree greatly on the impact of those excelling and taking the call for the Nats.

That's a respectful disagreement, BTW. You're free to it, jabs. Cheers.

jabbronies
01-10-2017, 10:05 AM
We both want what's best for the kids. We disagree greatly on the impact of those excelling and taking the call for the Nats.
That's a respectful disagreement, BTW. You're free to it, jabs. Cheers.

Absolutely! I'm glad we can have these frank discussions about the Nats.

I get riled up and become very harsh on them because I expect better from them.
It's no different than how TFC supporters have acted towards MLSE
TBH I wished more CMNT supporters held the CSA up to the same standard TFC fans held MLSE up to. This is the crux with me calling myself a CMNT supporter. But that's another topic for another thread.