Atmosphere at BMO thus far

[Bardown Snipes]

I don't know about you guys but I feel that over the past two home games, I have felt the atmosphere of the Southside, specifically in our section die down. During the NYCFC match, it seemed that we were consistently competing with U-Sector until we did the woah-oh.... TO chant where we battle back and forth. During the home opener, we were consistently loud for the full 90 minutes and no one was competing. But currently it seems that either not enough people are singing or we are simply just being over powered. Is this just me or has anyone else noticed this?

Hopefully it will be better tomorrow!

[Joe Kool]

Home opener's are always louder I find due to the extra excitement. Standing at the back of 114 I actually thought the last game the groups were more in sync with the chants than the opener or the Vancouver game.

[Bobo]

This has been the trend for the past several seasons, since casuals moved in and U-Sector decided to give up and become the beer garden of the SS. A capo there is vital to unify 114 and 112, as it stands the the lack of coordination sounds awful at times.

As an unaffiliated supporter in 113 who actually puts in an effort, I'd like to think I reserve the right to say such things.

[Blizzard]

This has been the trend for the past several seasons, since casuals moved in and U-Sector decided to give up and become the beer garden of the SS. A capo there is vital to unify 114 and 112, as it stands the the lack of coordination sounds awful at times.

As an unaffiliated supporter in 113 who actually puts in an effort, I'd like to think I reserve the right to say such things.

No Capo? Tell it to John Bruce and Bobby Braz who gave up a half each to station themselves on the stand. I was surprised at the number of tourists at the front of 113 on Wednesday. It was weird.

The biggest problem we have is 112 starting up a song and then having 114 start up an entirely different song! Sometimes they care what 112 / 113 is singing, sometimes they don't.

[Brodzo]

I definitely agree with this post! If youre in the Supporters Section you have to give it your all for 90 minutes. I see almost 90% of the section just standing around. Nobody is jumping, very few are chanting, even fewer are clapping. The fans are responsible for implementing an intimidating atmosphere for the away team as well as support our boys in Red.

I have spoken to soome supporters and I am interested in attending a meeting to organize a breakdown of chants and banners and what not. Somebofy mentioned that we are undeer sanctions after the MTL game? Regardless, lets work on getting everbody in the section moving and chanting! I live for that and Im sure many of us do as well!

[greatwhitenorf]

Two fckwits with less than 20 posts have no business starting or supporting threads that have no basis in fact.

Atmosphere has been so good that even opposing managers (Pareja, for one) and players have expressed their appreciation for it.

[Bardown Snipes]

Two fckwits with less than 20 posts have no business starting or supporting threads that have no basis in fact.

Atmosphere has been so good that even opposing managers (Pareja, for one) and players have expressed their appreciation for it.

Just because we do not post a lot on the forums does not mean that we don't read them or go to matches. I have been on this forum since 2014 and Brodzo since 2013. This thesis does have fact as the past two matches have been very mediocre in terms of the support being given in the supporters section. The home opener is an exception as it always has a good atmosphere but our "supporter section" doesn't seem to be as engaged. This may be due to the fact that NYCFC generates a lot of 'tourist' and 'casual' supporters but nonetheless, something has been missing from the last two matches. During the NYCFC match, I was actually told off by the people around myself and my buddy to not put our scarves up as they could not see and many of the people standing in the section did not partake in the cheers/chants.

I'm just wondering how we can change this, thats all.

[greatwhitenorf]

Sorry, Samson. But 12 posts into your presence on this forum and trashing fan support that opposing teams are going out of their way to praise hardly drapes you in credibility.

You and your luge doubles partner Brodzo can get back to us in a couple of years.

https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1362127/luge-double.jpg

[Red4ever]

Blizzard is correct about 112 and 114.

114 often starts whatever they want on while chants are going on & 112 sped up chants on multiple occasions so 114 couldn't keep up. They even had a guy there trying to tell us and we didnt notice at all. We may think we are all loud but coming back to my seat durimg a giovinco chant, all three groups were out of sync. A lot of the time 114 can't hear us. Im at the top of 112 and there were times where i couldnt hear.

I will say this and I know its gonna be unpopular but the drum is too loud. It drowns out chants, it makes it hard to get in sync with 114 and from sections away it's all you hear when participation is low. We need 75% percent of 112 signing for the drum sound to be proporionate and we aren't close to that.

Id love to have a trail run where we bring a snare instead of the big drum.

[Ivy]

Sorry, Samson. But 12 posts into your presence on this forum and trashing fan support that opposing teams are going out of their way to praise hardly drapes you in credibility.

You and your luge doubles partner Brodzo can get back to us in a couple of years.

https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1362127/luge-double.jpg
Jeeeeeesus man, take it easy on the guy...
he isn't wrong. All the groups know that we aren't in sync with each other.

[Red4ever]

Jeeeeeesus man, take it easy on the guy...
he isn't wrong. All the groups know that we aren't in sync with each other.

+1

A few of the shots weren't needed but hes calling a spade a spade. We have been poor.

[greatwhitenorf]

Jeeeeeesus man, take it easy on the guy...
he isn't wrong. All the groups know that we aren't in sync with each other.

Bardown and Brodzo are most certainly in sync.

[pawlukj]

Ive been to quite a few different games at the BMO stadium, ive been to about maybe 10-11 total, during the Earnshawe years, the Defoe days, and so on and so forth, and I can say that without a hands doubt, that today's stadium, with the new additions built to the stadium, are unbelievable, that I have been to a few games in Europe as well, Champions league games, and that I think that this year is special, because, Bradley and Giovinco are doing really well, I think we are blessed to have Giovinco here, and Osario and Altidore, its a good vibe, and a special team we have. We have to keep it going, we have to keep showing opposition that Toronto is really that special, because it is, when you think about it, we are an international team, not liek from the States, we are not a side from the states that everyone might come to or go to, when they come here they try to over take us, they look at our fans as fans that they can take over, and its not true, we are fans from diverse parts of the globe, from Portugal, Italy, Poland, Ukraine, So on and so forth, and we have the CN Tower the CN Rail, the atmosphere of everything that we have is more than unbelievable, and we are not showing it. We have to prove to everyone that our stadium is hard to play at.

[Bobo]

Two fckwits with less than 20 posts have no business starting or supporting threads that have no basis in fact.

Atmosphere has been so good that even opposing managers (Pareja, for one) and players have expressed their appreciation for it.

I don't think a coach from a team with one of the worst attendances in the league bigging up Toronto support for their home opener in a brand new stadium is a great marker of where we are. We will probably never again see the type of atmosphere that we took for granted in the good ol' days of ineptitude. The majority of that is on ML$E but when you see someone criticizing the atmosphere, it probably means that they've been around the club long enough to remember what it was like to see the stadium actually rocking with SGs all pulling in the same direction (sort of), With that being said, it might serve you best to look beyond a post count on an internet forum.

When it's been loud this season, it's usually two sections doing two completely different things. Those very brief moments of coordination when 113 chimes in only offer glimpses into our heyday.

[SmokedPanda]

what's wrong with 113 these days? they used to be so awesome from top to bottom in that section

[redisthenewblk]

Re the drums - perhaps the key is louder drumming and syncing up all the drummers across the south and taking cues from that strong beat.

In all honesty I notice chants falling out of synch when people are really drunk and singing super loud without trying to blend in to the group then things fall apart into different rhythms. A lot of people just genuinely don't understand how to follow queues or stick to a beat.

[greatwhitenorf]

I don't think a coach from a team with one of the worst attendances in the league bigging up Toronto support for their home opener in a brand new stadium is a great marker of where we are. We will probably never again see the type of atmosphere that we took for granted in the good ol' days of ineptitude. The majority of that is on ML$E but when you see someone criticizing the atmosphere, it probably means that they've been around the club long enough to remember what it was like to see the stadium actually rocking with SGs all pulling in the same direction (sort of), With that being said, it might serve you best to look beyond a post count on an internet forum.

When it's been loud this season, it's usually two sections doing two completely different things. Those very brief moments of coordination when 113 chimes in only offer glimpses into our heyday.

Oh right. Like that's ever been true. Here's what true about the bad old days.

The south end has never spoken with one voice. Not then, not now.

Tribal Rythym Nation used to absolutely kill any continuity with chants or songs in the south west corner. Most of the time the noise has come from the intersection of the south and east stands. The further west one looked and listened, the less sound and spectacle took place. By the time one got to the west side of the goal area, you could have a civil conversation without raising your voice. Unless it was to swear aloud at the TRN racket.

It's been lively enough this season, even up near the north end. The atmosphere has been good and when Pareja spoke about it, he mentioned how impressed his players and coaching staff were and how they commented on it in the dressing room. It was valid and merited praise given the collective playing experiences beyond life in MLS with that roster.

When two new names show up and run them negative waves out in their first dozen posts, agreeing and supporting one another, I'm not too bothered about criticizing it. It's what CFL fans tend to do when they're done early cleaning out the barn.

[Ivy]

Re the drums - perhaps the key is louder drumming and syncing up all the drummers across the south and taking cues from that strong beat.

In all honesty I notice chants falling out of synch when people are really drunk and singing super loud without trying to blend in to the group then things fall apart into different rhythms. A lot of people just genuinely don't understand how to follow queues or stick to a beat.
Yes yes yes yes yes yes x100 yes.
That, and some people simply don't follow their capo.

[denime]

Two fckwits with less than 20 posts have no business starting or supporting threads that have no basis in fact.

Atmosphere has been so good that even opposing managers (Pareja, for one) and players have expressed their appreciation for it.

Attack the argument not the person/poster ! There is absolutely no need for post like this. :topic:

[JavierMartini]

My 0.2cfrom114. Some chants work, some don't. The call respond "it happened without warning" at the NYC game was spectacular. 113 was a tourist graveyard. Don't be afraid to call them out but don't expect them to know any intricate chants. I got a bunch clapping and even a few bouncing.

Call respond chants like T-O and it happened without warning or the massive work best. Even some of the East side was getting in on it and it sounded great.

[Pint]

Not sure why a thread like this is needed all the time but seams to be the norm now.

We are 3 games into a stadium with completely different acoustics, no group was allowed in early and we have yet to have a day in the south where it was regularly scheduled service (I believe that changes today).

How many conversations take place behind the scenes to try and make this all better? Many but they involve leaders of groups, capos and drummers. If you want to make the situation better I suggest you sing for the full 90, following your capo to the syllable. The louder the sound the easier it is for people to catch on.

After 3 games where the groups appear to be getting synced up better a thread like this is counter productive.

[redisthenewblk]

Yes yes yes yes yes yes x100 yes.
That, and some people simply don't follow their capo.

Thanks Ivy. I've played in orchestras my whole life. If we all follow our maestros aka capos and see chanting as teamwork in every section it'll rock.

[Red4ever]

Not sure why a thread like this is needed all the time but seams to be the norm now.

We are 3 games into a stadium with completely different acoustics, no group was allowed in early and we have yet to have a day in the south where it was regularly scheduled service (I believe that changes today).

How many conversations take place behind the scenes to try and make this all better? Many but they involve leaders of groups, capos and drummers. If you want to make the situation better I suggest you sing for the full 90, following your capo to the syllable. The louder the sound the easier it is for people to catch on.

After 3 games where the groups appear to be getting synced up better a thread like this is counter productive.

Dude your arguments are such a buzz kill.

Threads like this are important as it solicits feedback and gets people on the same page. I can forgive newbies to the board suggesting improvments rather than other group leaders telling us what should and shouldnt be on an RPB board.

Sit in 113 for a game and you will gain perspective.

[Red4ever]

Thanks Ivy. I've played in orchestras my whole life. If we all follow our maestros aka capos and see chanting as teamwork in every section it'll rock.

One way to look at it but there are many people below the drum who cant hear chants above the drum. And vice versa. Its a real problem.

Some chants will organically start and people will pick them up. The capo has to be able to hear that and get it going on occasion.

Everyone talks about the early years like there was no organic chanting. Its just not the case.

[Red4ever]

Re the drums - perhaps the key is louder drumming and syncing up all the drummers across the south and taking cues from that strong beat.

In all honesty I notice chants falling out of synch when people are really drunk and singing super loud without trying to blend in to the group then things fall apart into different rhythms. A lot of people just genuinely don't understand how to follow queues or stick to a beat.

Thinking more on it, I actually think moving the drum to 113 would solve a lot of problems

[Lennon]

My 0.2cfrom114. Some chants work, some don't. The call respond "it happened without warning" at the NYC game was spectacular. 113 was a tourist graveyard. Don't be afraid to call them out but don't expect them to know any intricate chants. I got a bunch clapping and even a few bouncing.

Call respond chants like T-O and it happened without warning or the massive work best. Even some of the East side was getting in on it and it sounded great.

Agreed. I'm in 114 as well and we're at our best when we work with 112/113. Hate it when different groups are chanting different things. It's too bad that only the first 10 rows or so choose to participate.

Things can only get better as Inebriatti grows in numbers and their sanctions are lifted (no capo stand/drums/flags). Looking forward to the annual fight with rows 11+ when that happens lol.

[Ivy]

One way to look at it but there are many people below the drum who cant hear chants above the drum. And vice versa. Its a real problem.

Some chants will organically start and people will pick them up. The capo has to be able to hear that and get it going on occasion.

Everyone talks about the early years like there was no organic chanting. Its just not the case.
people below the drum don't need to hear the chanting above it, in my opinion. Everybody from top to bottom should be following their capo. Too many times I hear the top of the section start chants, or drift away with chants, and that causes a mess. The bottom of the section follows the capo cuz they can hear him well, while the top does their own thing because they only hear themself.
Another thing I noticed happening - when we do chants that go back and forth between sections, (like the battle, Alles ultras, it happened without warning) people in 112 chant when we shouldn't be, and are often off beat, so that when the chant comes back to us, we're ahead or behind the other group.

On a positive note though, I think there's been good energy top to bottom this year.

[Red4ever]

people below the drum don't need to hear the chanting above it, in my opinion. Everybody from top to bottom should be following their capo. Too many times I hear the top of the section start chants, or drift away with chants, and that causes a mess. The bottom of the section follows the capo cuz they can hear him well, while the top does their own thing because they only hear themself.
Another thing I noticed happening - when we do chants that go back and forth between sections, (like the battle, Alles ultras, it happened without warning) people in 112 chant when we shouldn't be, and are often off beat, so that when the chant comes back to us, we're ahead or behind the other group.

On a positive note though, I think there's been good energy top to bottom this year.

I think working to solve the problems we have by any means necessary should be the goal.

If the capo doesnt have a chant going, people will start one. Thats really never gonna stop. There a many places where there are no capos and aliemating people is the last thing we need. No one up top really ever starts a chant in competition. But its not only a capos job to lead chants, he has to listen too.

Ideally everyone sings on key and for 90
Ideally everyone keeps in time.

Lets not assume everyone knows the rules yet. Its exactly why these threads are needed. To help inform.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I don't know about you guys but I feel that over the past two home games, I have felt the atmosphere of the Southside, specifically in our section die down. During the NYCFC match, it seemed that we were consistently competing with U-Sector until we did the woah-oh.... TO chant where we battle back and forth. During the home opener, we were consistently loud for the full 90 minutes and no one was competing. But currently it seems that either not enough people are singing or we are simply just being over powered. Is this just me or has anyone else noticed this?

Hopefully it will be better tomorrow!


I definitely agree with this post! If youre in the Supporters Section you have to give it your all for 90 minutes. I see almost 90% of the section just standing around. Nobody is jumping, very few are chanting, even fewer are clapping. The fans are responsible for implementing an intimidating atmosphere for the away team as well as support our boys in Red.

I have spoken to soome supporters and I am interested in attending a meeting to organize a breakdown of chants and banners and what not. Somebofy mentioned that we are undeer sanctions after the MTL game? Regardless, lets work on getting everbody in the section moving and chanting! I live for that and Im sure many of us do as well!

If you want more info you can pm myself or any mods about getting involved. Most of us are on our way down to the pub soon, too. I'm sure we'll see you around soon enough.

[bigredone]

Sounds good against Columbus. I can sing along from work and this is a bad idea, but COYR!!!!!

[Jack]

The crowd sounds good so far today. Clear chants coming through on the feed and the commentators mentioned that, in their first match at BMO Field since the renovation, you can really hear the difference the roof makes.

[james]

I have been in 112 since 2007 and over all the years the main issue we have today, and have always had, is with the south End different supporter groups have never chanted/ or sang together and have never been united for most of probably just about every match at BMO field.

114 starts a song, and then no one in 112 join in, so after about 15 seconds of listening to 114 sing we all of a sudden start our own song, even tho I could clearly hear 114 singing. This also happens the other way such as 112 and 111 get a good chant going and all of a sudden 114 start chanting a completely different song.

This is nothing new, this happened with 113,112,111, 114....doesn't matter, we have all never been well united. Sometimes it has been because we clearly can't hear the other supporters singing clearly, the fact that there is a delay and by the time the chants reaches across the south end the timing is off or the group that started the chant have been chanting for 25 seconds and now stopped while the other end is only just started or the fact that sometimes 1 section wants to sing 1 thing and the other section decides they don't want to sing the same song and rather sing a different song. Other issues can also be sometimes 1 supporter group is singing a song that another supporter group doesn't know all the lyrics or the song just has never caught on well with the supporters in that area. When we do sing all together (which only happens a few times in a game) its great. But we have really struggled to unite together since day 1. Capos try to unite us, but even them also sometimes clearly start there own song or chanting that has nothing to do with another group near by that has already started a chant.

This is not pointing any fingers at any specific supporters, capos or anyone, all supporter groups have done it and continue to do it, and all capos have done it at some point. Overall our atmosphere is loud, and one of the better ones in MLS. I think the roof has helped a bit. The chants sometimes are louder and more clear this year. However if we could actually Unite the South End and all supporters better our atmosphere would go to another level, how to do it tho? I have no idea.

[OgtheDim]

Did my ears deceive me or did a TFC stomp start in the west in the second half and got taken up by the south?

That and the hand clap is going to catch on around the field. I only suggest not doing it during their corner kick.

[jimiv]

I'm in 117, the Kings in 116 usually are always trying to sync up with the other supporters groups but the drummers at the top of 118 drown everything out.

If the drummers could followed along it would be great but instead it appears they just want make random noise.

Perhaps the team could relocate them to the North beer garden which could be a positive move for all and help get 117 and 118 involved in the group chants, sings, etc.

[OgtheDim]

If I'm not mistaken, those are paid for drummers, not Tribal Rhythms.

[jimiv]

If I'm not mistaken, those are paid for drummers, not Tribal Rhythms.

which should make it easier to move them

[TMAN80]

It was great to hear a chant start-up in the upper west side seats sometime in the second half. Sounded like it caught on and spread around the field. Also, I thought today the coordination was was great along the entire south stands at times. There were a couple moments that everyone was on the same word or note, and were all clapping at the same time. I was in 121, and it did sound good. Nice job to everyone involved in coordinating that! The arms up and clap one is cool too.

[Lennon]

Good day today. First ten rows of 114 went strong for 90 minutes. The rest may as well sit down.

I think if we want to take things to the next level we should consider copying what they're doing in Chicago

https://i.gyazo.com/d73006554c9086e46f6503f8c05869e3.jpg

Full drum kit! g:D

[AdamAM]

https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1362127/luge-double.jpg

this picture LOL. "mens luge doubles" i'm crying over here

[Bellzy]

The atmosphere was really, really good for extended periods of time today when the capos coordinated together. Being a little further up in 113, the sound resonates off the canopy big time.

Some serious potential now that I'm seeing multiple capos stretched across the south stand.

JB

[Bardown Snipes]

Yesterday's game was really great. I found that all the Capos were working together well and we had some great back and forth chants with the Inebriatti. I agree with some of the posts above that as we continue to host games, we will get better. The coordination though was really well done and I thought it was a lot louder then the last two matches.

[Red4ever]

Definitely some delays yesterday.

More effort on cooperation (which is absolutely encouraging) than ive seen in a while but there were more than a few hiccups on syncing up.

Ill say again, the drum was deafining. When people dont sing at the bottom, all you hear is the drum and cant pick up the chant.

113 was pretty dead at times so that didnt help.

[pdogg]

I wasn't at yesterday's game, so I can't comment on the delays. But I've had to say in the first three games the sound from the south and surrounding has improved. I sit over in 110 and there is a noticeable increase in the volume from the south. There is also a constant "buzz" of volume all around.

[notthesun]

I can second that "buzz". I was in the first few rows of 205 yesterday, there's no doubt the roof keeps a lot of sound in. I just wish we'd scored because it would've been really impressive.

[DIEHARDTFC]

Watching the NYCFC match from home on Weds, I can vouch for the fact that 'Happened Without Warning' sounded beautiful with the acoustics of the roof and coordination of everyone in the south. Being in 112 yesterday, there was a lot of good coordination between 112 and 114 as well - hopefully thats a trend going forward.

[TFC/Everton]

It has never sounded better at BMO. I've really enjoyed this 4 game home stand, from a supporters perspective.

[Red CB Toronto]

I have really enjoyed the first four games at BMO too. Visually it has looked amazing, the chants are definitely getting a benefit from the roof. From where I watch most of the games from over 119 you can hear and feel it from across the south end. Man this season has really been a rebirth of the TFC experience. Great to see the crowds overall back in the stadium. Its only going to get better as everyone gets a feel for it and make the most of it.

[Pint]

I'm in 117, the Kings in 116 usually are always trying to sync up with the other supporters groups but the drummers at the top of 118 drown everything out.

If the drummers could followed along it would be great but instead it appears they just want make random noise.

Perhaps the team could relocate them to the North beer garden which could be a positive move for all and help get 117 and 118 involved in the group chants, sings, etc.

Do people in 117 try and follow along with kings? If so can you guys hear what is going on? I can never tell how far up the sound projects.

[OgtheDim]

Do people in 117 try and follow along with kings? If so can you guys hear what is going on? I can never tell how far up the sound projects.

FWIW, I can hear you in 221. No idea what happens under that umbrella but the sound does seem to be travelling out.

[Pint]

FWIW, I can hear you in 221. No idea what happens under that umbrella but the sound does seem to be travelling out.

Not sure how the acoustics work, was once told that when we were in 127 we could be heard clearly in 115 and on the east side but was hard to hear in the south part of 126.

Good to know we can be heard in 221. Do any of the songs ever catch on?

[jimiv]

Do people in 117 try and follow along with kings? If so can you guys hear what is going on? I can never tell how far up the sound projects.

A lot of us do but the drummers truly drown out whats going on. The King's capo has a bullhorn, but's not very effective.

[OgtheDim]

Not sure how the acoustics work, was once told that when we were in 127 we could be heard clearly in 115 and on the east side but was hard to hear in the south part of 126.

Good to know we can be heard in 221. Do any of the songs ever catch on?

Depends if 120 and 219/220 pick them up. Its more then last season for sure.

That and, to be honest, the upper West really really prefers to make the earth move with a good stomp.

[MartinUtd]

I don't know about the south stand but the drum at the top of 110 is more out of sync than ever. It's like they're on an entirely different clock up there.

[greatwhitenorf]

The bongo brigade in the SW corner are just the most pointless presence on the south end. Absolute buzz killers for fans on the west side of the south end and well up the west side. The chants and songs from the south end are the heartbeat of the stadium. Why would you want to stifle it?

Maybe that's what MLSE want. Using them as a strategic white noise to stop the rowdiness from spreading too far. Putting them at the Great Expanse of North End Emptiness would be a good move and liven up a fairly drab area.

[Pint]

So is the concensus that the random drumming at the top of 118 is detracting from the atmosphere? Also are people 100% sure that it's not TRN

[Red CB Toronto]

So is the concensus that the random drumming at the top of 118 is detracting from the atmosphere? Also are people 100% sure that it's not TRN

What makes me think it's not TRN is that they are just playing bongos. There are no steel drums which are a staple of TRN. Not sure what could be done about it, I assume they have permission to be there, you could not just walk into BMO with the type of drums they have.

[Pint]

What makes me think it's not TRN is that they are just playing bongos. There are no steel drums which are a staple of TRN. Not sure what could be done about it, I assume they have permission to be there, you could not just walk into BMO with the type of drums they have.

That was one of the things that made me think it wasn't TRN as well, haven't had a chance to go up yet but from a far I didn't recognize any of the people either.

The question can be asked to the front office of who they are and what is going on. But if it's another SG then it's easier to communicate directly with them.

[OgtheDim]

So is the concensus that the random drumming at the top of 118 is detracting from the atmosphere? Also are people 100% sure that it's not TRN


Well I'm certain on the second part but I'm just some random guy on the internet. :)

Clues & Observations



Not the same people as the last few years. (Ethnically different group) Younger too.
All the instruments are exactly the same, again not like past instrumentation. (They sound Brazilian actually)
None of them smile. They look like they are at a gig helping to pay for their tuition. (Admittedly I haven't looked at them on the few occasions we have scored at home)
They play the same stuff at the same time of the game.
They are going through 3B.



If you find somebody who has had a seat at the top of 118 or 119 since day 1, they'd be able to confirm the first 2 points.

You need more then me to go by on all this but I would be asking a question of clarification as to "Who are those guys?" They sound new, and controlled. Maybe ask how to integrate?

As for detracting, I'm sure you'd get different opinions. Seen security people taking pictures fascinated with it all.

[Red4ever]

Id also like to submit all this as evidence that drumming which isnt coordinated, kills chants.

[T-boy]

I don't know about the south stand but the drum at the top of 110 is more out of sync than ever. It's like they're on an entirely different clock up there.

I have new SSH at the top of 110. The drummers (it looked like one man and a woman taking in turns) do look like they rare trying to sync with 112 drums sometimes. The problem seems to be that they can't time the drums properly and it seems out of sync. The *drum drum*clap* yesterday was always a beat behind 112, and then it sounded rough. Otherwise they don't seem to be part of any group, it looks like a random couple of people hitting a drum on their own volition.

[Ivy]

Id also like to submit all this as evidence that drumming which isnt coordinated, kills chants.
I agree.
And without offending anybody, people that don't have experience drumming, or are rhythmically untalented, shouldn't be allowed to drum.

[Pint]

I agree.
And without offending anybody, people that don't have experience drumming, or are rhythmically untalented, shouldn't be allowed to drum.

Agree with a slight caveat that at times you need to get new people involved and the only way to get experience is to do it.

[David_Oliveira]

It's tough to drum and capo when chants are being sped up and slown down randomly. I've been on the drum the last two games with both Wowza and Fizik the last two games and numerous times during both games, we'd look at each other and throw are hands in the air trying to figure out what time 114 was chanting at. It's a work in progress. Some improvements are needed. They'll get done. Shirtless dude (forget his name) in 114 is a huge help. But I think some sort of telecommunications between us and them will help alot.

[KGH]

I don't understand why the capos aren't wearing headsets to co-ordinate the chants?

[Ivy]

I don't understand why the capos aren't wearing headsets to co-ordinate the chants?
It gets too loud at times, the capos (often under the influence) can't distinguish between crowd vs headset.

one thing I've suggested before is getting a louder megaphone, or speakers that face the south stand why capos holding mics.

[Red4ever]

It gets too loud at times, the capos (often under the influence) can't distinguish between crowd vs headset.

one thing I've suggested before is getting a louder megaphone, or speakers that face the south stand why capos holding mics.

A worthy investment to be sure.

It would be really great to have a bridging presence in 113. Can we get a drum there? a few bodies to act as go betweens? I know most people like to sit where they sit but I think it would help.

[David_Oliveira]

It gets too loud at times, the capos (often under the influence) can't distinguish between crowd vs headset.

one thing I've suggested before is getting a louder megaphone, or speakers that face the south stand why capos holding mics.

Either sounds doable why not rent something from long and mcquade to try the speaker idea

[Pint]

Have to get everyone to agree, figure out what system works best for the capos and get approval from the front office but it could be doable.

[InSuL1nImP]

If I can wear a headset plugged into a walkie talkie during concerts, raves, etc... while working security and hear my team including security, the bartenders, owner, etc.... Capos can for sure hear each other clearly as well as the crowd.

[DinamoTFC]

So is the concensus that the random drumming at the top of 118 is detracting from the atmosphere? Also are people 100% sure that it's not TRN

Yes. The south end should just be for supporter chanting.
The random drummers can be move to another part of the stadium where the FO feels there is a "less of" an atmosphere. But definitely not the south end where we are trying to expand and unify.

[Eastend]

So is the concensus that the random drumming at the top of 118 is detracting from the atmosphere? Also are people 100% sure that it's not TRN


What makes me think it's not TRN is that they are just playing bongos. There are no steel drums which are a staple of TRN. Not sure what could be done about it, I assume they have permission to be there, you could not just walk into BMO with the type of drums they have.


Well I'm certain on the second part but I'm just some random guy on the internet. :)

Clues & Observations



Not the same people as the last few years. (Ethnically different group) Younger too.
All the instruments are exactly the same, again not like past instrumentation. (They sound Brazilian actually)
None of them smile. They look like they are at a gig helping to pay for their tuition. (Admittedly I haven't looked at them on the few occasions we have scored at home)
They play the same stuff at the same time of the game.
They are going through 3B.



If you find somebody who has had a seat at the top of 118 or 119 since day 1, they'd be able to confirm the first 2 points.

You need more then me to go by on all this but I would be asking a question of clarification as to "Who are those guys?" They sound new, and controlled. Maybe ask how to integrate?

As for detracting, I'm sure you'd get different opinions. Seen security people taking pictures fascinated with it all.

They are not TRN. TRN was there for the first game then these guys showed up. Given their colours I believe they are Iranian drummers (for Beitashour?) and beat to their own rhythm. They pick it up when there's an intense moment for TFC but they are not in line with anyone. I'm at the top of 116 and they just kill anything that's moving east to west chant wise, and drown out the Kings just below me. If they were in time with the other groups it would be fantastic as they are good. Maybe they should hit the beer garden.

Dom

[DinamoTFC]

It gets too loud at times, the capos (often under the influence) can't distinguish between crowd vs headset.

one thing I've suggested before is getting a louder megaphone, or speakers that face the south stand why capos holding mics.
:hump:

Louder megaphone for sure. Many times I can't even hear it from the top of the south.

[TFC/ARSENAL]

I sit up in the second deck above the supporters sections. Love the atmosphere you guys create, however at the game on Saturday, it did seem that you and U Sector were working at cross purposes. Usually, you all work together and the sound is amazing but there were several times on Saturday when you were out of sync and it diminished the overall effect.

[Bardown Snipes]

A worthy investment to be sure.

It would be really great to have a bridging presence in 113. Can we get a drum there? a few bodies to act as go betweens? I know most people like to sit where they sit but I think it would help.

I back this idea. I usually sit in 113 with my buddies and are very involved in the songs. However, I think that in order to get the 'tourists' involved, we will need more bodies

[james]

I hate to say this, but lack of singing on many occasions this year has been from 113 which seperrates 112 from singing along with 114, the gap makes it harder to be united singing as 1. I am not saying 113 doesn't sing at all, but many in 113 are not joining in as often as I would like.

[Cashcleaner]

I must be going deaf or maybe crazy, because I stand in the thick of things in 112 and really thought the game against Columbus was one of our worst for participation and overall atmosphere. I'm guessing the roof has helped the elevate the overall experience all across the stadium; but as I mentioned in the home opener thread, even at the first home game of the season I felt the area around us was subdued. Not dead, mind you. Maybe it's just me, it's just that when I think of how loud it got in the first few seasons - and even a couple of games in more recent years, I just think we're a little bit quieter and a bit less in-sync with the others around us.

Again, this is all just my observation. I think I might be in the minority here, but yeah... make of it what you will. 114 is killing us when it comes to generating sound and atmosphere. I'd like to see us go back to the old days where we had a bit of a friendly rivalry with U-Sector as to who could sing and cheer the loudest - in fact, that's probably why our back-and-forth songs to 114 are probably my favourites right now.

[JollyBenjabi]

I can say on Saturday (I was drumming on 116) one thing that definitely helped was I spotted the drummer in 114 and saw the stick go up and that's how I timed my beat...once I got his timing it was easy for me to time the beats along with it.

Another suggestion that might help (not sure how feasible) might be to have the drummer(s) on the sidelines so that everyone can go along with him/her to co-ordinate.

[mistercorporate]

Gotta say that the tribal/brazilian drummmers last game sounded great on tv, they added some good atmosphere and could be heard throughout the field.

[Yohan]

I can say on Saturday (I was drumming on 116) one thing that definitely helped was I spotted the drummer in 114 and saw the stick go up and that's how I timed my beat...once I got his timing it was easy for me to time the beats along with it.

Another suggestion that might help (not sure how feasible) might be to have the drummer(s) on the sidelines so that everyone can go along with him/her to co-ordinate.

Visual cues helps to coordinate. There are chants with certain actions that people can clue into what chant is being sung by an another section and time into it.

[paul-collins]

I hate to say this, but lack of singing on many occasions this year has been from 113 which seperrates 112 from singing along with 114, the gap makes it harder to be united singing as 1. I am not saying 113 doesn't sing at all, but many in 113 are not joining in as often as I would like.
One thing that's apparent from my seats is that 114 is full before the players' warmup is done. They're already warm to the task while the rest of the south is still filling.

Midweek and then the moved start won't have helped.

[jabbronies]

I have new SSH at the top of 110. The drummers (it looked like one man and a woman taking in turns) do look like they rare trying to sync with 112 drums sometimes. The problem seems to be that they can't time the drums properly and it seems out of sync. The *drum drum*clap* yesterday was always a beat behind 112, and then it sounded rough. Otherwise they don't seem to be part of any group, it looks like a random couple of people hitting a drum on their own volition.


The drums at the top of 110 are always out of sync with 112. Great guys and koodos to them for trying to create an atmosphere up there, but it really makes for a disjointed experience for those below them who hear both their drums and the south. It's impossible for the section to sync with either group.

Sitting in 110 - we also get a birds eye view of the south.
Inebriatti are definitely leading the charge this year. Thier sound is more together and louder than the rest IMO.

[GhostKiller]

The drums at the top of 110 are always out of sync with 112. Great guys and koodos to them for trying to create an atmosphere up there, but it really makes for a disjointed experience for those below them who hear both their drums and the south. It's impossible for the section to sync with either group.

Sitting in 110 - we also get a birds eye view of the south.
Inebriatti are definitely leading the charge this year. Thier sound is more together and louder than the rest IMO.

Ya I'm sitting at the top of 110 as well and the drumming throws me off big time. To the point a lot of people around me stop chanting. It's like they are drumming to another song and everyone gives up out of confusion.

[GhostKiller]

I can say on Saturday (I was drumming on 116) one thing that definitely helped was I spotted the drummer in 114 and saw the stick go up and that's how I timed my beat...once I got his timing it was easy for me to time the beats along with it.

Another suggestion that might help (not sure how feasible) might be to have the drummer(s) on the sidelines so that everyone can go along with him/her to co-ordinate.
Is it possible to have a few of the drummers sit together? It would travel through the stadium just as well.

[OgtheDim]

Gotta say that the tribal/brazilian drummmers last game sounded great on tv, they added some good atmosphere and could be heard throughout the field.

Sure.....have it come from the North patio so that it doesn't mess with the South.


8 possibly paid for by MLSE drummers should not take precedence over the supporters section.

[Mateo1985]

I think it would be of huge help if the drums came down to row 1 or 2 for better co-ordination with the capo. When everyone is jumping or something the visual connection between the capo and the drummer is easily broken. Just my 2 cents

[Red4ever]

Ya I'm sitting at the top of 110 as well and the drumming throws me off big time. To the point a lot of people around me stop chanting. It's like they are drumming to another song and everyone gives up out of confusion.


This happens at the top of 112 and in 113 every time we hear 2 chants at once. There is no point, and everyone just wonders what the hell is going on.

It's great that 114 is loud, it's great the coordination is starting, but it seems like shared chants are the only thing that seem to work. Having all groups singing at the same time is like a 20% percent success rate at this point. Even when we are on the same song, the delay is painful.

[magmadragon]

I was talking to the guys in 111 around me and one of them mentioned maybe having the 112 capo stand in the gap between the two sections. I know way back when we in 111 did have a stand. No way could we support our own now but this might be a way to get some better cohesion going in the corner (besides The Massive and some others). Visually and psychologically it creates more of a boundary. Just a thought.

[Lennon]

I hate to say this, but lack of singing on many occasions this year has been from 113 which seperrates 112 from singing along with 114, the gap makes it harder to be united singing as 1. I am not saying 113 doesn't sing at all, but many in 113 are not joining in as often as I would like.

Yup, 113 is dead. It's a shame that we have these gaps between all the different supporters groups. Kings in 116, Inebriatti 114, RPB 112.

[barticusz]

Pardon my ignorance in this as I'm not involved whatsoever, but have the Capos' never met to discuss coordinating chants, or purchasing headsets so that they can lead their sections to align with the others?

[T-boy]

Yup, 113 is dead. It's a shame that we have these gaps between all the different supporters groups. Kings in 116, Inebriatti 114, RPB 112.

Does U-Sector no longer exist in 113?

[Red4ever]

Pardon my ignorance in this as I'm not involved whatsoever, but have the Capos' never met to discuss coordinating chants, or purchasing headsets so that they can lead their sections to align with the others?

I am hoping this thread serves as a rebirth to those discussions.

The feedback from all corners is invaluable and should be taken into acount. Over a week until the next home game. I think it's time to talk to the club and see what options are available to us.

[jabbronies]

Pardon my ignorance in this as I'm not involved whatsoever, but have the Capos' never met to discuss coordinating chants, or purchasing headsets so that they can lead their sections to align with the others?

There is still a delay with headsets.
I know hand signals have been tried before, but they don't seem to work.

Unless you close the gaps - coordination is not going to work.

[Blizzard]

Blizzard is correct about 112 and 114.

114 often starts whatever they want on while chants are going on & 112 sped up chants on multiple occasions so 114 couldn't keep up. They even had a guy there trying to tell us and we didnt notice at all. We may think we are all loud but coming back to my seat durimg a giovinco chant, all three groups were out of sync. A lot of the time 114 can't hear us. Im at the top of 112 and there were times where i couldnt hear.

I will say this and I know its gonna be unpopular but the drum is too loud. It drowns out chants, it makes it hard to get in sync with 114 and from sections away it's all you hear when participation is low. We need 75% percent of 112 signing for the drum sound to be proporionate and we aren't close to that.

Id love to have a trail run where we bring a snare instead of the big drum.

I've often wondered if a snare might be more effective. It's less loud but it would pierce through well. The bass drum is wonderful in so many ways of course but ya, a snare could work well.

[Eli]

Hey guys,
So I heard this thread was going so I finally cracked and got onto your forums.

I think there's a renewed sense of unity throughout all of the groups on the terrace. It's going to take some time to work out a system that will allow the whole stand to sync up; be patient and be helpful. Working through and past five to six years of poisonous shit is hard work so give people the benefit of the doubt.

Suggestions like all of the drums together (personally my favoured option along with all of the capos together in front of 113 and their mid capos spread out throughout their respective sections), bringing in a snare drum (we'll have one in 114 for June 1st, our guy with the snare couldn't make it on Saturday), ideas for songs or means by which the capos can better communicate are all welcome. I'll say this though and I think all of the capos will agree with me on this: don't fucking bring them to us during or right before the games. Besides that, we're always all ears.

This is a positive start to the season so let's not lose this opportunity to build something greater than 'the old days'. Those days were good but we can do better.

-Forever Red

Oh, also, the last line of It Happened Without Warning is: "For you I sweat and bleed", I've been hearing variations on it and I just wanted to clarify. It's got nothing to do with violence, if that's what some people's hesitation to sing it is but rather alluding to the idea that our passion and love for the club is so deep and integral to our spirit that we sweat and bleed TFC.

See you malakes on the the 1st.

[Eli]

Oh yeah, and we tried ear pieces with walkie talkies and they just sucked. The ear piece kept popping out, couldn't really hear anything and as far as optics go, makes us look like ice cream that you get out of a truck (soft).

Someone suggested getting speakers set up in front of the terrace and linking it up with a microphone. This is what Delije does at Marakana as well as Seattle and a whole bunch of other groups throughout the world. I think it would rock, especially if we can get all of the drums (Toronto Futsal Club guys included - those are the samba drums in the southwest you're hearing...super dope guys!) together in the middle somewhere. It would necessitate having a capo from each group in a central stand and then each capo would get a turn to lead a song or something. Their mid capos would then be placed at the front and in the middle of their sections and help to convey instructions and lead with their hands to the rest of their section.

Just an idea that's been bouncing around my head for a while.

[Jack]

Oh yeah, and we tried ear pieces with walkie talkies and they just sucked. The ear piece kept popping out, couldn't really hear anything and as far as optics go, makes us look like ice cream that you get out of a truck (soft).

Someone suggested getting speakers set up in front of the terrace and linking it up with a microphone. This is what Delije does at Marakana as well as Seattle and a whole bunch of other groups throughout the world. I think it would rock, especially if we can get all of the drums (Toronto Futsal Club guys included - those are the samba drums in the southwest you're hearing...super dope guys!) together in the middle somewhere. It would necessitate having a capo from each group in a central stand and then each capo would get a turn to lead a song or something. Their mid capos would then be placed at the front and in the middle of their sections and help to convey instructions and lead with their hands to the rest of their section.

Just an idea that's been bouncing around my head for a while.
If you have a few capos on the same stand or a group of stands, you could have each one focus on an area of the south during the chants. They are on the same page, but focused on getting their particular area of the stand involved, so you get that "look me in the eye" feeling from the capo that helps get people singing. I know when I've been on the 112 stand and I turn to 111, they often respond very well. Flush does it, too.

It would be a challenge because following a capo at the front of each section only gets you a certain percentage of that section, never mind putting them all in the middle and trying to go out to the corners from there.

[OgtheDim]

O(Toronto Futsal Club guys included - those are the samba drums in the southwest you're hearing...super dope guys!)....

Aaaa...that explains a few things. Yup somebody move them together to be with and go with other drums please.

And please somebody get them to actually smile and look like they are enjoying themselves -


samba is not ice cold, ever.

[Bardown Snipes]

Hey guys,
So I heard this thread was going so I finally cracked and got onto your forums.

I think there's a renewed sense of unity throughout all of the groups on the terrace. It's going to take some time to work out a system that will allow the whole stand to sync up; be patient and be helpful. Working through and past five to six years of poisonous shit is hard work so give people the benefit of the doubt.

Suggestions like all of the drums together (personally my favoured option along with all of the capos together in front of 113 and their mid capos spread out throughout their respective sections), bringing in a snare drum (we'll have one in 114 for June 1st, our guy with the snare couldn't make it on Saturday), ideas for songs or means by which the capos can better communicate are all welcome. I'll say this though and I think all of the capos will agree with me on this: don't fucking bring them to us during or right before the games. Besides that, we're always all ears.

I completely agree with this. Having all of the drummers together or spread out evenly throughout the rows would help with keeping everyone on beat. This would allow the drummers to see each other and stick to a beat. In regards to the capos, I have been reading about how the Timbers Army in Portland conduct their supporters section and it seems that they have many stands throughout the supporter section. Although their section is a lot bigger then ours, the overall ratio of capo stands to people is better in Portland. By having more capos and stands, specifically in 113 & 115 where the majority of these 'tourists' and 'casual' supporters sit, this may entice them to sing and get more involved rather than just simply watch the game. Someone also pitched the idea of having a capo mid stand. The shirtless guy in 114 who is a member of the Inebriatti does a great job of getting the fans in the upper levels involved, especially if they can't hear the capo at the bottom.
ihttp://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGD1VxOUIAAhjxk.jpg

One other thought is to try and teach a couple of the cheers/songs before the game to the people in these sections. I know we do this sometimes already but if we direct this to the 'casual fan' we may be able to unite the south end which many people here are talking about wanting.

I'm excited for June 1st, with all of this talk, hopefully we can implement some changes for the match!

[InSuL1nImP]

Eli did you try this type of ear piece? https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00L7MN3QI/ref=s9_simh_gw_p422_d20_i1?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=12TD8Q41E8SCR6FT0PVD&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2443077022&pf_rd_i=desktop

[Red4ever]

The shirtless guy in 114 who is a member of the Inebriatti does a great job of getting the fans in the upper levels involved, especially if they can't hear the capo at the bottom.

If he ever puts a shirt on, we're fucked.

[General Woolfe]

I don't think it helps the atmosphere when people drift in lethargically after the kick off. That for me is the biggest reason why the atmosphere has been much flatter after the home opener. It also looks particularly bad on TV. Against Columbus there on the weekend I'd estimate the East Stand ended up being 2/3rds full, however at the opening whistle you were lucky if a quarter of those people were in there seats. It was a ghost land. I really can't understand why these people cannot be in place on time, it's really not a big ask.

One reason could be these 'fans' are there on corporate giveaways and only there for a free event. The numbers in place at the final whistle would perhaps back this up. However this has always been an issue for Toronto sports franchises. Season seats are bought by companies in large numbers to hand out to their client as sweeteners. I myself have been a beneficiary of this given regular seats at the Gardens by suppliers when I worked for the old Eatons Ltd

[Red4ever]

Let's be honest, Toronto always has been a "drift in whenever" kinda town. There is really nothing we can do about people who don't show up on time. I will say if the "Oh when the reds" Were more of a stadium wide thing, it might get people in their seats. It may not be popular, but i really think it the words should be on the the screen (for the opening, every day chant only) . I guarantee there are some season ticket holders who would sing if that were the case.

Not to go too far off topic, but it also doesn't help that the 7:30 kickoffs against Vancouver and Dallas were at 7:48, and the 5:00 kickoff versus Columbus was at 5:00. Would love to know the rationale.

[Red CB Toronto]

Let's be honest, Toronto always has been a "drift in whenever" kinda town. There is really nothing we can do about people who don't show up on time. I will say if the "Oh when the reds" Were more of a stadium wide thing, it might get people in their seats. It may not be popular, but i really think it the words should be on the the screen (for the opening, every day chant only) . I guarantee there are some season ticket holders who would sing if that were the case.

Not to go too far off topic, but it also doesn't help that the 7:30 kickoffs against Vancouver and Dallas were at 7:48, and the 5:00 kickoff versus Columbus was at 5:00. Would love to know the rationale.

Its all about TV and if there is a pregame show. If the channel is going to air at 7 pm with 7:07 start, it's gives them a quick lead in.

[TMAN80]

I don't think it helps the atmosphere when people drift in lethargically after the kick off. That for me is the biggest reason why the atmosphere has been much flatter after the home opener. It also looks particularly bad on TV. Against Columbus there on the weekend I'd estimate the East Stand ended up being 2/3rds full, however at the opening whistle you were lucky if a quarter of those people were in there seats. It was a ghost land. I really can't understand why these people cannot be in place on time, it's really not a big ask.

One reason could be these 'fans' are there on corporate giveaways and only there for a free event. The numbers in place at the final whistle would perhaps back this up. However this has always been an issue for Toronto sports franchises. Season seats are bought by companies in large numbers to hand out to their client as sweeteners. I myself have been a beneficiary of this given regular seats at the Gardens by suppliers when I worked for the old Eatons Ltd
A lot of fans come in from out of town. Reduced GO train service with poor arrival times for the ones that are available, difficulty getting through under the tracks when coming from the east end(could take as much as 10 mins or more), Gardiner expressway closed for the weekend, and subway lines down for construction, all this with other sports events at similar times. I am more impressed at how many people actually even make it down at all.

[TMAN80]

Let's be honest, Toronto always has been a "drift in whenever" kinda town. There is really nothing we can do about people who don't show up on time. I will say if the "Oh when the reds" Were more of a stadium wide thing, it might get people in their seats. It may not be popular, but i really think it the words should be on the the screen (for the opening, every day chant only) . I guarantee there are some season ticket holders who would sing if that were the case.

Not to go too far off topic, but it also doesn't help that the 7:30 kickoffs against Vancouver and Dallas were at 7:48, and the 5:00 kickoff versus Columbus was at 5:00. Would love to know the rationale.
Really like this idea. If this is done at every game, I think it would catch on for sure. Might take some time, but eventually I could see it being a stadium wide song, rather than just the south stands.

[Yagbod]

Not sure how viable this is but organizers of the supporters groups can help a bit with the empty stands at kick off.

Our group leaves the pub en mass about an hour before kick off. We have had a mini march before every game this year to get our members in the stands at least 30 mins before kick off.

When we aren't being totally drowned out by the PA music we cheer on the team during warm ups. It also gives us time to get our shit together and to tune up our voices for kick off.

ML$E sells game day experience to the casual fans. If more of the lakeshore terrace was filled in earlier then that might become a draw for some of those fans. At least get them out of the concourse.

This wouldn't make a huge difference but it wouldn't hurt either. Also a good time to maybe work on some songs.

[OgtheDim]

The "not there right at the start" issue is found across the league apart from big games with the exception of the mighty amount of people that make up Timber's Army.

[Pint]

Not sure how viable this is but organizers of the supporters groups can help a bit with the empty stands at kick off.

Our group leaves the pub en mass about an hour before kick off. We have had a mini march before every game this year to get our members in the stands at least 30 mins before kick off.

When we aren't being totally drowned out by the PA music we cheer on the team during warm ups. It also gives us time to get our shit together and to tune up our voices for kick off.

ML$E sells game day experience to the casual fans. If more of the lakeshore terrace was filled in earlier then that might become a draw for some of those fans. At least get them out of the concourse.

This wouldn't make a huge difference but it wouldn't hurt either. Also a good time to maybe work on some songs.

I talked to them about this and i kinda got the kid with a new toy answer.

Many ideas have been put forward to the FO to try and get people in the stadium earlier but they have kinda gone untouched... probably time to revisit them.

[Belfast_Boy]

Shirtless guy = Eli the INEBRIATTI capo.

Getting in early is key. By game time we are already warmed up. If others showed up before the stands fill in we may be able to sync better for the full 90. The capos will have a chance to work on communication.

[Parkdale]

Having all of the drummers together or spread out evenly throughout the rows would help with keeping everyone on beat. This would allow the drummers to see each other and stick to a beat.

From my experience (drumming in 112), the drums can't be separated by more than a few feet, or they risk drifting out of sync with each other. We used to try having the main drum in row 6 and another one down in row three (trying to aim the sound towards 111) and it went off time quickly.

I've always found that the BEST sound happens when you put a bass drum and a treble drum (snare or high-tom or tambo etc) right next to each other so they can play perfectly in sync. This sound carries the best because you have both ends of the spectrum working together.

I know that one of the strengths of 112 has been the ability for the capo and drums to work together to adjust timing. Drums can slow down or speed up when directed to, and the capo can visually clap people into the rhythm of the drum.

On a larger topic (one I dont really have time to cover here at the moment) - there's a new crew in the space that used to be Tribal Rhythm Nation. I spoke with one of their main guys at the last match, and they are super pumped to get the south end rocking. Plus they did a VERY good job of toning down the drums when the moment required it. I gave them the explanation of how the capos and the current drums communicate, and that the drums are usually used a metronome to keep the songs in time, with some flourishes used at certain breaks (aka SALSA). They seem like a really good crew of drummers, with a huge amount of talent. I suggested that a couple of them come into 112 or 114 to see how the drums are used in our setups, and maybe make some mental notes on how their drumming can borrow some of the (basic) techniques that we use to work the crowd.

upwards!

[Parkdale]

Shirtless guy = Eli the INEBRIATTI capo.


naw, we're talking about the tall, bald shirtless guy who's a few rows up and faces due East (right into 113 and 112).

[Phil]

Eli did you try this type of ear piece? https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00L7MN3QI/ref=s9_simh_gw_p422_d20_i1?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=12TD8Q41E8SCR6FT0PVD&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2443077022&pf_rd_i=desktop

Thats the type we tried last year and it didn't work.

Its simply too hard to work a mic, and do all the work required on the capo stand. Way too much visual and verbal communication coming in to those guys to be fumbling around with a walkie talkie or earpiece.

[Parkdale]

the absolutely simplest visual display (putting your hands up, or the 5-count down before a massive) works almost effortlessly.

Keep it simple stupid.

The next logical step would be to make some kind of basic flash card, just so we could show other people which chants are coming up before they hear it.

[Red CB Toronto]

the absolutely simplest visual display (putting your hands up, or the 5-count down before a massive) works almost effortlessly.

Keep it simple stupid.

The next logical step would be to make some kind of basic flash card, just so we could show other people which chants are coming up before they hear it.

Fashcards could be another idea and a runner. Flashcards are used in packed football stadiums for play calling. A runner could go between each capo and map out the next few chants/songs etc.

[Flint]

https://twitter.com/TomasMakacek/status/731830469097074688

[Jack]

naw, we're talking about the tall, bald shirtless guy who's a few rows up and faces due East (right into 113 and 112).
His name's Boris. He does a good job of trying to link up chants.

[Justin10000]

Shirtless guy = Eli the INEBRIATTI capo.

Getting in early is key. By game time we are already warmed up. If others showed up before the stands fill in we may be able to sync better for the full 90. The capos will have a chance to work on communication.

I was talking to a few supporters about this on Saturday. 20 minutes before kick-off and the 112 was practically empty while 114 was already going. We really need to get supporters into the ground early to warm up and even help set up banners, flags, etc.

[OgtheDim]

...........

On a larger topic (one I dont really have time to cover here at the moment) - there's a new crew in the space that used to be Tribal Rhythm Nation. I spoke with one of their main guys at the last match, and they are super pumped to get the south end rocking. Plus they did a VERY good job of toning down the drums when the moment required it. I gave them the explanation of how the capos and the current drums communicate, and that the drums are usually used a metronome to keep the songs in time, with some flourishes used at certain breaks (aka SALSA). They seem like a really good crew of drummers, with a huge amount of talent. I suggested that a couple of them come into 112 or 114 to see how the drums are used in our setups, and maybe make some mental notes on how their drumming can borrow some of the (basic) techniques that we use to work the crowd.

upwards!

Thanks for that. upwards indeed :scarf:

[Belfast_Boy]

Yup that's Boris

[Red4ever]

Im not denying getting there early is better for athmosphere, but if there was a 15 minute capo powwow we could have to solve it, then this would be easy.

We struggle with getting people involved.
We struggle with being able to hear each other.
We struggle with reading the crowd.

I say this with all due respect to Capos, but there are way more people than not in the south who don't care that you're up there. They are there to watch first and contribute second.

Its all about how we bring em in. If we get loud, they'll want to be a part of it.

[Phil]

I was talking to a few supporters about this on Saturday. 20 minutes before kick-off and the 112 was practically empty while 114 was already going. We really need to get supporters into the ground early to warm up and even help set up banners, flags, etc.

Lets be careful about what games we choose to identify as a problem. Less than a weeks notice to a start time of a match where we had 3 games in one week....I give a lot of leeway to the heavy lifters and anyone who comes out to support to get in. The club didn't do anyone a huge favour in shifting that start time.

[Bluenose13]

Lets be careful about what games we choose to identify as a problem. Less than a weeks notice to a start time of a match where we had 3 games in one week....I give a lot of leeway to the heavy lifters and anyone who comes out to support to get in. The club didn't do anyone a huge favour in shifting that start time.Fair comment for sure & I totally agree. However bottom of 114 was full and bottom of 112 was empty...It can be done.

[Phil]

Fair comment for sure & I totally agree. However bottom of 114 was full and bottom of 112 was empty...It can be done.

It will get there, but after 10 long years supporting a team that has been less than stellar for at least 7 of those years (arguably more) I cut a lot of slack. I also appreciate and applaud what is going on in 114 pre match and during.

[Bluenose13]

I am hoping this thread serves as a rebirth to those discussions.

The feedback from all corners is invaluable and should be taken into acount. Over a week until the next home game. I think it's time to talk to the club and see what options are available to us.This thread has remained positive and constructive, as long as it stays that way it can only lead to unity and good ideas being shared between like minded supporters and groups.

[Bluenose13]

It will get there, but after 10 long years supporting a team that has been less than stellar for at least 7 of those years (arguably more) I cut a lot of slack. I also appreciate and applaud what is going on in 114 pre match and during.Agreed again but you were there early as was my group of friends...It can and should be done.

It's a far better product on the field these days and they deserve the early appreciation...Players feed of it.

[Pint]

Agreed again but you were there early as was my group...It can and should be done.

It's a far better product on the field these days and they deserve the early appreciation...Players feed of it.

7pm weekday games can be a little tough also the 5pm switch threw a number of people off. With mostly 730 kickoffs this year i hope people just treat it as a 7pm kickoff when planning to get to the games.

[Brucey]

Silently following this thread for a bit, might as well chip in from another "capo" perspective.

This season, has been getting better and better linking up chants between 112, 113 and 114 as it has been in a very long while. Difficult with 116, due to the massive distance that they have to deal with. It seems like each week we get another chant going together, or we can keep it going a bit longer than the week before, and I honestly think we are slowly but surely getting to a point where most of the south end is united on chants. We heard on Saturday what it can be like. That slow clap that everyone was together for was magical.

Would I like to have more people in 113 singing? Absolutely, but I have never seen so many unfamiliar faces in 113 as I did on Saturday, so that will be something we will have to work with. However each section deals with this, and it is now a matter of getting all the fresh faces singing and participating.

[Eli]

Andrew, that is an indictment of all of us then because it means we have been complacent and therefore complicit in allowing people with the wrong mentality onto Lakeshore Terrace. The club is trying to rectify this i.e. needing to go through an SG to get season seats on the terrace however the only true solution is GA, safe standing and a committment from the SGs to bring in people with a 90+ minute mentality.

I'm not saying that those people who don't hold that mentality don't have a place on Lakeshore Terrace because Toronto supporters are a microcosm of the city itself: diverse and multi faceted. I think a GA and safe standing zone, open to all members of all groups that want to be in a sector like that, would allow for a consolidation of individuals who want to follow a capo and bring the energy to stand together, regardless of their group, which I think would serve as an engine or a catlyst for those with more of a laid back mentality to get involved on their terms from the periphery of a GA/Safe Standing sector. So often I feel that our potential to be loud is lost in the transmission of a song between the small groups in each section that follow the capos and want to actively bring the energy. Imagine how loud that group of 200 or so could be if we were all together?!

This is what happens all over the world and would go a long way to ending the intergroup politics and conflicts. I know it's entirely different from what we've done in the past but I think the last few years have illustrated the need for radical change in order to get this ship righted and back on track. We can not be afraid to take chances and experiment. We are Toronto, we lead the way! Now is the time to have open minds, to be willing to experiment and take risks, to look forward rather than dwelling on a short and inglorious past. The only thing we should fear is running out of beer.

-Forever Red

[Belfast_Boy]

Just one more point about arriving early. Consider this, musicians and athletes don't show up right at game time. They prepare and warm up.
People walking into the stand at game time won't be ready to turn it up to 11 right away. Plus like I said it'll give the capos a little rehearsal time together.
We arrive really early probably that is too much for most people. But perhaps even 15 minutes before KO would help.
We've all been around for a while and put up with our politics and terrible teams year after year. Let's just move on. We have a lot of people with influence in this thread let's take this sense of collaboration back to our groups.

[Phil]

Just one more point about arriving early. Consider this, musicians and athletes don't show up right at game time. They prepare and warm up.
People walking into the stand at game time won't be ready to turn it up to 11 right away. Plus like I said it'll give the capos a little rehearsal time together.
We arrive really early probably that is too much for most people. But perhaps even 15 minutes before KO would help.
We've all been around for a while and put up with our politics and terrible teams year after year. Let's just move on. We have a lot of people with influence in this thread let's take this sense of collaboration back to our groups.


I agree and support this, but the point that I was making is that the game start time had moved in a last minute fashion. I think most supporters showing up for kick off in 112, 113, 116 know what to expect every game and do come in ready to chant. Its the randoms in those sections and others across the south that only come to 1 or 2 games a year, or have a totally different expectation about watching a game than what the groups may offer - those are the guys and girls we need showing up early. The team responds well to an early packed house. Hence TFC stepping up the giveaways this year.

I whole heatedly encourage anyone in the south or elsewhere in the stadium to get in early, the kick off times are very predictable this year and that should make it easier. The team struggles with this issue, all we can do as groups is continue to support the team.

[German21]

Andrew, that is an indictment of all of us then because it means we have been complacent and therefore complicit in allowing people with the wrong mentality onto Lakeshore Terrace. The club is trying to rectify this i.e. needing to go through an SG to get season seats on the terrace however the only true solution is GA, safe standing and a committment from the SGs to bring in people with a 90+ minute mentality.

I'm not saying that those people who don't hold that mentality don't have a place on Lakeshore Terrace because Toronto supporters are a microcosm of the city itself: diverse and multi faceted. I think a GA and safe standing zone, open to all members of all groups that want to be in a sector like that, would allow for a consolidation of individuals who want to follow a capo and bring the energy to stand together, regardless of their group, which I think would serve as an engine or a catlyst for those with more of a laid back mentality to get involved on their terms from the periphery of a GA/Safe Standing sector. So often I feel that our potential to be loud is lost in the transmission of a song between the small groups in each section that follow the capos and want to actively bring the energy. Imagine how loud that group of 200 or so could be if we were all together?!

This is what happens all over the world and would go a long way to ending the intergroup politics and conflicts. I know it's entirely different from what we've done in the past but I think the last few years have illustrated the need for radical change in order to get this ship righted and back on track. We can not be afraid to take chances and experiment. We are Toronto, we lead the way! Now is the time to have open minds, to be willing to experiment and take risks, to look forward rather than dwelling on a short and inglorious past. The only thing we should fear is running out of beer.

-Forever Red


Only problem with GA is that we cant use the section then during CONCACAF champions league matches.

As per section XII.F.2 of the CONCACAF Champions League Regulations (http://issuu.com/concacaf2013/docs/2015-16_sccl_regulations_eng/29?e=9006389/14491673)


If a stadium with both seating and standing areas are available, the standing space must remain vacant.

[Flint]

Only problem with GA is that we cant use the section then during CONCACAF champions league matches.

As per section XII.F.2 of the CONCACAF Champions League Regulations (http://issuu.com/concacaf2013/docs/2015-16_sccl_regulations_eng/29?e=9006389/14491673)

If a stadium with both seating and standing areas are available, the standing space must remain vacant.


Safe standing would deal with that. GA and folded up seats for league matches. Folded down seats and numbered tickets for matches that require it.

[Cambassador]

Loving the collaboration and positive approach on this thread! I agree with getting in earlier, it allows for people to understand some of the songs and ask questions before the game or the beer takes priority.

Would a Capo runner provide some help in communication messages between the stands? Before we get a soundsystem or relocate the stands themselves this might be a more beneficial way of coordinating songs. If we can work on pacing songs we could communicate between capos at what minute we want to start the song, similarly to Dichio Chant but called on the fly and an upcoming minute on the scoreboard is chosen along with a song. Just my two cents!

Had some very drunk English guys behind me during the NYCFC game just screaming half the song or screaming the wrong words and completely ruining any building moment from capo + lower 112, songs would die just beside the entrance to the stands. We need strong singers and voices spread throughout 112 to ensure those around them keep up the song and can understand what the capo is saying.

[Eli]

Only problem with GA is that we cant use the section then during CONCACAF champions league matches.

As per section XII.F.2 of the CONCACAF Champions League Regulations (http://issuu.com/concacaf2013/docs/2015-16_sccl_regulations_eng/29?e=9006389/14491673)

What Anthony said above. There are configurations at grounds that regularly plays European and international tournaments that are configured for both. At Borussia Dortmund the central part of the gradinata where the ultras and hooligans are is a safe standing, GA zone with fold down seats while the areas on the periphery are rail seating. Rail seating is slightly more convenient for the grounds crew and for people who don't feel the urge to run around and/or mosh in the section during matches. The fold down seating is ideal for those that are there to create the atmosphere and PVR the match so that they can watch it later (i.e. me...lol; shockingly to some people I actually am a fan of the game and not just here for the fashion and violence). The way fold down seating works is that essentially the back of the chair folds down into the part where you put your tuchus so when it's folded away you have either a flat terrace to stand on or small little stumps that you can stand on. This would also help to avoid damage to seats that occurs over the course of a season.

Prizby or Mark have a picture of it, maybe they can post it here to give everyone an idea.

[Pint]

This is what you are referring to?

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ldsouthwaleswest/pages/269/attachments/original/1409146047/key_Safe_Standing.jpg?1409146047

[Eli]

Loving the collaboration and positive approach on this thread! I agree with getting in earlier, it allows for people to understand some of the songs and ask questions before the game or the beer takes priority.

Would a Capo runner provide some help in communication messages between the stands? Before we get a soundsystem or relocate the stands themselves this might be a more beneficial way of coordinating songs. If we can work on pacing songs we could communicate between capos at what minute we want to start the song, similarly to Dichio Chant but called on the fly and an upcoming minute on the scoreboard is chosen along with a song. Just my two cents!

Had some very drunk English guys behind me during the NYCFC game just screaming half the song or screaming the wrong words and completely ruining any building moment from capo + lower 112, songs would die just beside the entrance to the stands. We need strong singers and voices spread throughout 112 to ensure those around them keep up the song and can understand what the capo is saying.


Several times throughout the match Anthony and Stelios will run to the other sections so that we can coordinate songs that we've chosen specific times for. Last week the capos decided that we would all sing Oh When The Reds immediately followed by Sha-La-La and then It Happened Without Warning at 25' and the Back and Forth at 40'. Anthony would run over to 113 and 112 to confirm that and Stelios would run over to Paul in 116. It worked really well.

We've also just bought a $500 megaphone that I found actually worked really well to getting Fizik and Paul's attention so that we could the slow clap. It worked wonderfully and if anyone has $500 lying around I highly recommend it.

[Eli]

This is what you are referring to?

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ldsouthwaleswest/pages/269/attachments/original/1409146047/key_Safe_Standing.jpg?1409146047

This is rail seating. Fold down seating is different. This is what I would imagine would work best for sections surrounding a GA-Safe Standing section.

[barticusz]

Love that all this discussion is happening between different groups! Can't wait to see how you guys evolve over the course of the year.

[Eli]

I found the picture, I just can't figure out how to post it. A little help from someone who isn't a Luddite like me, please and thank you?

[Eli]

Here, I'll just link them:
http://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/storage/pic/diaserien_fcms/bildergalerien/news/galerie/bezugswisspor-arena/82267_1_04860946.jpg
(http://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/storage/pic/diaserien_fcms/bildergalerien/news/galerie/bezugswisspor-arena/82267_1_04860946.jpg)
http://knappdaneben.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/hsv_stuhl_k.jpg (http://knappdaneben.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/hsv_stuhl_k.jpg)

http://pitchinvasion.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/kombi.jpg


Edit: just added the img tags for clarity. cheers

[Fort York Redcoat]

If we're trying to "get the word out" about safe standing, ok but this is all retread from meetings we've already had with FO as recent as last season when they were MOST LIKELY to renovate.

I'm not saying they wouldn't renovate again I'm saying it is incredibly unlikely now that we are weeks away from our second tenant arriving.

Otherwise, this discussion of co-operation with what we have with seating now is progress.

[Bardown Snipes]

So from what I've been reading l, I think that the best way to move forward for the next game is to continue to deploy 'runners' between the various sections and sing together with the other sections rather then do our own thing. The idea of a Capo pow wow meeting before the game is great. If the capos from the various supporter sections could get together and just quickly go over how the chanting will go and maybe write down on some paper the time that the song will occur in the game, we will be able to all sing together.

[Wagner]

I found the picture, I just can't figure out how to post it. A little help from someone who isn't a Luddite like me, please and thank you?

when you reply, there are some toolbars at the top of the box.
Bold, Italics, Underline, font, size.

from the right, there is a quote bubble, film strip, then a picture. click that...then paste the link of the pic.

that should work.

[Eli]

thanks hermoso!

[Eli]

If we're trying to "get the word out" about safe standing, ok but this is all retread from meetings we've already had with FO as recent as last season when they were MOST LIKELY to renovate.

I'm not saying they wouldn't renovate again I'm saying it is incredibly unlikely now that we are weeks away from our second tenant arriving.

Otherwise, this discussion of co-operation with what we have with seating now is progress.

Yeah, conversation sort of veered away from what we can do now to wishful thinking but I mean we're dealing with ML$E, right? Don't they have more wealth stashed away than a Swiss bank?

I think last match was a good starting point and if we continue to do what we did on Saturday we'll be able to identify areas that we can work on and ways to improve the current system. If anyone has suggestions on how to build on Saturday or ways that they would have done things differently they should definitely post them here and we can try to integrate them into our game plan.

[denime]

Ahh, sorry to interrupt such a lovely topic, WHO THE F*&K RENAMED SOUTH STANDS TO "LAKESHORE TERRACE" ?


Welcome to the LAKESHORE TERRACE, home of TFC Supporters :facepalm:



sorry again :topic:

[Eli]

Ahh, sorry to interrupt such a lovely topic, WHO THE F*&K RENAMED SOUTH STANDS TO "LAKESHORE TERRACE" ?


Welcome to the LAKESHORE TERRACE, home of TFC Supporters :facepalm:



sorry again :topic:

LOL. It was an idea of Almo and Davyd's a few years ago. I liked the ring of it over Southend or South Stand and I've just been colloquially referring to it as that. I think that having an umbrella name for all of the denizens of the south end will go a long way in helping us see all the groups as different parts of a greater whole. For example at Karaiskakis Gate 7 is what the whole supporter end is called but within Gate 7 there are multiple groups such as Patras, Mafia Pireaus 101, Misfits etc. Everyone has their own clubhouse and whatnot but in the stadium all the groups sing and work as 1.

It's why we decided to call the fanzine that Anthony and I put together Lakeshore Terrace because we wanted it to be non-group specific and sort of be a platform for any supporter to express themselves. If you haven't picked one up feel free to drop by our pregame spot, Liberty Village Cafe and Market, at the corner of Jefferson and Liberty to grab one. They're $2 or PWYC and we're looking for people outside of the two of us to submit stuff for the next issue.

[Phil]

LOL. It was an idea of Almo and Davyd's a few years ago. I liked the ring of it over Southend or South Stand and I've just been colloquially referring to it as that. I think that having an umbrella name for all of the denizens of the south end will go a long way in helping us see all the groups as different parts of a greater whole. For example at Karaiskakis Gate 7 is what the whole supporter end is called but within Gate 7 there are multiple groups such as Patras, Mafia Pireaus 101, Misfits etc. Everyone has their own clubhouse and whatnot but in the stadium all the groups sing and work as 1.

It's why we decided to call the fanzine that Anthony and I put together Lakeshore Terrace because we wanted it to be non-group specific and sort of be a platform for any supporter to express themselves. If you haven't picked one up feel free to drop by our pregame spot, Liberty Village Cafe and Market, at the corner of Jefferson and Liberty to grab one. They're $2 or PWYC and we're looking for people outside of the two of us to submit stuff for the next issue.

Its kinda a hard line to tow when nobody from other groups are consulted or asked about renaming it. To further use it as a name of a publication makes it look owned by a specific group too. Just spit balling some ideas here while we are all talking about co operation.

[eustacchio]

Isn't "southend" technically already an umbrella term though. (Sorry, not to be that guy.)

[denime]

LOL. It was an idea of Almo and Davyd's a few years ago. I liked the ring of it over Southend or South Stand and I've just been colloquially referring to it as that. I think that having an umbrella name for all of the denizens of the south end will go a long way in helping us see all the groups as different parts of a greater whole. For example at Karaiskakis Gate 7 is what the whole supporter end is called but within Gate 7 there are multiple groups such as Patras, Mafia Pireaus 101, Misfits etc. Everyone has their own clubhouse and whatnot but in the stadium all the groups sing and work as 1.

It's why we decided to call the fanzine that Anthony and I put together Lakeshore Terrace because we wanted it to be non-group specific and sort of be a platform for any supporter to express themselves. If you haven't picked one up feel free to drop by our pregame spot, Liberty Village Cafe and Market, at the corner of Jefferson and Liberty to grab one. They're $2 or PWYC and we're looking for people outside of the two of us to submit stuff for the next issue.

LOL, Almo, eh?

Very disappointing, I have to talk to him :) after all these years telling him about Delije experience he comes with such a cheese name.
Delije call it north, grobari call their south,it's simple, if you go to "Marakana" in Belgrade, north side it where you want to go, terrace is where you get prawn sandwich served ;)

Anyway, name doesn't matter as long it comes from fans instead of FO PR department.

Let's hope we get "south terrace " to song and support in unison before it becomes all you can eat prawn sandwich terrace.

Keep up good work and stay out of trouble, after all this is not eastern Europe .

[Eli]

Its kinda a hard line to tow when nobody from other groups are consulted are asked about renaming it. To further use it as a name of a publication makes it look owned by a specific group too. Just spit balling some ideas here while we are all talking about co operation.

It was a half baked idea we hatched during the off season before the feelings of goodwill and cooperation arose. I'm not taking a hard line on it, if anyone has better ideas I'm definitely open to them. And to be clear: it hasn't been renamed, it's just what a few of us refer to it as, call it whatever you guys want, at the end of the day it's still just home. Calling the fanzine that was also a last minute thing when we realized that the home opener was a few days away and we needed a name quickly.

Again, it's not group specific which is why we put an email at the back for people to submit writing to. I'm really hoping that Anthony and I don't have to write anything for the next one and we can put the next edition together entirely using pieces written by members of all the other groups. Spread the word. Creative writing, non-fiction, poetry, pictures, illustration. If anyone wants to get involved on the editorial end hit up Anthony or myself.

What I'm interested in is the idea of culture building. Everyone who comes to BMO has their own ritual and reasons. If we share those with each other in a creative and non-judgemental way maybe we can build a deeper understanding amongst all of the supporters so that everyone's style can find a home on Lakeshore Terrace (lol, sorry, couldn't resist).

[Eli]

LOL, Almo, eh?

Very disappointing, I have to talk to him :) after all these years telling him about Delije experience he comes with such a cheese name.
Delije call it north, grobari call their south,it's simple, if you go to "Marakana" in Belgrade, north side it where you want to go, terrace is where you get prawn sandwich served ;)

Anyway, name doesn't matter as long it comes from fans instead of FO PR department.

Let's hope we get "south terrace " to song and support in unison before it becomes all you can eat prawn sandwich terrace.

Keep up good work and stay out of trouble, after all this is not eastern Europe .

HAHA! If everything works out I'll be with Delije at the Marakana for the derby next year. A whole bunch of the Orthodox Brothers in Toronto and Montreal are trying to put together a trip for it. I'm v excited, I haven't been to Belgrade before. That said, I do enjoy a nice prawn sandwich.

You hit the nail on the head though. Whatever we call the terrace and our activities must be supporter driven and executed. I would hate to end up with the situation that ECS have right now.

[Bluenose13]

Here's an idea :)

We should turn the Massive into a 114/115/116 battle vs 111/110/109.

112/113 chants - Qu'est-ce que vous chantez to 114/115/116, they respond with Nous chantons les rouges allez, 112/113 then turns and chants Qu'est-ce que vous chantez to 111/110/109 this continues and then all sections do the la,la,la,la's together.

This would create a bit of competition between the sections, similar to the battle that is already well done between 114-116 and 114-113/112.

When the Massive was done at the start of last year between 112 and 114 it pissed of 111 and they were extremely loud when we reverted back to them, we need that passion from the east stand all the time...this may do that.

[Belfast_Boy]

Let's get back on target. The name doesn't matter. This thread has potential and shouldn't be derailed.

[Pint]

Here's an idea :)

We should turn the Massive into a 114/115/116 battle vs 111/110/109.

112/113 chants - Qu'est-ce que vous chantez to 114/115/116, they respond with Nous chantons les rouges allez, 112/113 then turns and chants Qu'est-ce que vous chantez to 111/110/109 this continues and then all sections do the la,la,la,la's together.

This would create a bit of competition between the sections, similar to the battle that is already well done between 114-116 and 114-113/112.

When the Massive was done at the start of last year between 112 and 114 it pissed of 111 and they were extremely loud when we reverted back to them, we need that passion from the east stand all the time...this may do that.

Yes, the 1 thing i will say as someone who has capo'd in 116 before: it is very hard to see past 114 so we would need a cue to our capo and then time for him to relay it to the stands. At times i've though doing 111 vs 112 and 113 as well as 114 vs 116 as the visual cues can be picked up easier. Either way if back and forth stuff is going on and it is starting in 112 area just let us know because the sound doesn't travel sideways very well.

[OgtheDim]

Do that massive split loud enough and the east and west will join in.




(Although it would be easier as a straight split once it got to that big a deal. Call and response is by far the easiest chants to get full stadiums going. But the pivot to pit south vs south would be fun to watch)

[greatwhitenorf]

Ahh, sorry to interrupt such a lovely topic, WHO THE F*&K RENAMED SOUTH STANDS TO "LAKESHORE TERRACE" ?

Welcome to the LAKESHORE TERRACE, home of TFC Supporters :facepalm:


http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loqek3xcj41r0ojhto1_500.gif

[Bardown Snipes]

Yes, the 1 thing i will say as someone who has capo'd in 116 before: it is very hard to see past 114 so we would need a cue to our capo and then time for him to relay it to the stands. At times i've though doing 111 vs 112 and 113 as well as 114 vs 116 as the visual cues can be picked up easier. Either way if back and forth stuff is going on and it is starting in 112 area just let us know because the sound doesn't travel sideways very well.

If we do The Massive and It happened with a Warning among the Southend or "Lakeshore Terrace" with all sections being involved, this could ultimately get the entire south end singing together. The best way to do this though is to maybe do a 10 second countdown. This would alert the other sections (116 and 115) who have trouble seeing the RPB and we would be able to start the chant on cue.

[DiemPerdidi]

I'm a noob, both in the forum & TFC stands. So with all due respect, and hoping not to offend anyone, I have to say that (IMHO) the main problem is not the coordination. Lack of coordination is a result of the space between groups.

I honestly don't understand why the chanting groups don't sit together side by side and we have all those space filled with people don't participate at all...
We chant at 114, you guys maybe barely hear it sometimes. You chant at 112, I know that you try with all your heart but we don't even hear you at all most of the time. Meanwhile, there's an ocean of people watching the game like a movie between us!

In Europe, 1 capo and a few around him manages to lead thousands of people, a whole section bigger than our south-stand. Because they don't stand in separated groups of a few dozen or a hundred so coordination does not become an issue. Coordination should be the topic when we manage to make all stadium chant as "Coordination between South Stand and West Stand, etc..."

So, probably there is not much to do for this season now with all the season tickets and all, but i think you should start thinking of bringing all the loud hools together, right behind the goals. Keep the group names, banners, etc but stand together at the stands.

Cheers,
Baris

[Red4ever]

Good thoughts here.

I will say we should keep the timed chants to a minimum. That's not to say there shouldn't be any because, admittedly, it's easier to coordinate, but we need to pick our spots. And, as a transition to my main point, spontaneity is still really important.

Eli- (and something Ivy said previously)
What I was saying before is not that people want to just watch the game and not cheer, they just prioritize one over the other. You're right in that we all own a little of quiet that had/has become the norm, but you're also right in that people come from different places with different ideas of support and that's something that has to be taken into consideration when courting the mushy middle.

Some prefer spontaneity, like/dislike certain chants and won't sing for 90, but get as loud / mad / excited as anyone when that moment happens. I don't think it's a realistic expectation that most in the south is going to sing for 90. I think the people who wanna do that are doing it and doing it well. My goal is to get the people who sing for 5 to sing for 15 and the people who sing for 15 to sing for 30. Then we watch the dominoes fall.

I'm also not trying to chart a course away from capos at all as the are absolutely necessary to doing all the things we need to do, but you've got a good few rows of newly-moved, like-minded individuals so the dynamic is going to be a little different for you than it is for us. If these people aren't catching on to a chant we all feel is infectious, we have to find out what would get them going. I mid-capoed from row 15 all last year (with a megaphone) trying to sync up chants, and at the right times it's loud. But they will give up if all we hear is off tempo noise. We care, we just want it done right.

As for the casuals, I can't count how many times I have heard someone make an astute point about the game, join in on a song in full voice, and then a minute later ask why you or Pete would pay money to turn around and not even watch the match. There is a disconnect between the casual fans and those who know what we are trying to do.

Everyone who is in on this discussion obviously cares. I think the others will join in when we find a way to make participation fun and easy.

[__wowza]

whoa, a lot to take in but here's my two cents on the whole unity thing. i'll go RPB specific in just a sec.
we all support differently, and that's not a bad thing - ya'll have heard my "which flavour of ice cream is better?" speech before.
however.. if we're willing to stand by these differences during a match then we have to understand that the south will never be united.

first off - i'd just like to show everyone what we're dealing with. eli, anthony and pete are going to be familiar with this image because i showed it to them during the capo meetup last season. supporters in the south are spread ridiculously thin. this is not a one capo job, and there's no depth - just width. so whenever anyone wants to chip in about linking up with other sections please remember that this is what we have to overcome ON TOP of our differences in support.

http://i.imgur.com/udHQaZX.png

speaking on behalf of my time capoing; we don't have the staying power to continue songs for a long period of time. we'll be through our second or third song when 114 is still going with "oh when the reds". some of 114's chants are a bit harsher than what we'd like to join in with. we're more reactionary, we chirp officials, keepers, players and stop singing when one of our players goes down. 113 i find is hit or miss, they can either be fantastic in linking up or completely fine with just watching the game.. with the number of tourists leaking into the section i find that we're running into a lot of similar problems. 116, like bruce mentioned, is a damn shame. they're way too far away to be as involved as they need to be with the rest of us. i can't speak on their behalf, but i can't imagine that they enjoy living on an island when the rest of the groups are much closer together.. so having their presence in 115 would help immensely.

aside from that.. and specifically on the unity front. if we'd truly like to create a united south, then each of the SGs has to be willing to compromise.
compromise our style, compromise our attitudes, and compromise the way we support.

if you're willing to do that, great.
if you're not, that's cool too, but it hurts the overall goal which is supporting the team as best we can.
if you believe that "as best we can" doesn't involve a 100%, honest to god, collaborative effort.. then i don't know what to tell you.

[chbu12]

If he ever puts a shirt on, we're fucked.

don't worry. we're good.

[ChrisFizik]

Interesting thread all.

As an ongoing development, match to match, we've been working hard and making progress. While some sparse points as far as bodies on Saturday, thanks to Stelios/Flint/Eli/Bruce for coordinating and planning with me in the stands - via megaphone, & yes, there were runners, and timed executions, it all came together nicely at points. Oh and how could I forget Boris. Shirtless signal right back at ya. (we see you also Kings, thru space and time) There's a lot of factors and variables involved minute-to-minute in the stands.

Of course many of these notions and challenges have been weighed over years.. The devoted care, both about creating energy in front of us and feeding off energy in our neighbour sections and of course from the pitch. Looking to engage and encourage and push a positive experience for all participating and watching on match day. Taking note of ideas to continue developing!

Together For The Reds

[Pint]

I'll speak up for the kings part of 116... we do our best to link up but it is really only feasible with 114. We have times where we do operate like we are on our own island but try to join in what's going on else where the majority of the time but it's tough. We also have issues in 116 with people either not singing by choice or because the 118 drums drown the capo out or even worse just start singing over the capo because they don't want to follow.

If a solution can be achieved to get everyone on the same page we are down but as wowza said it takes compromise from all parties involved.

[chbu12]

As we know, the balkanization of TFC supporters occurred due to a large diversity in supporter or "ultra" mentalities in Toronto. With such a multicultural setting, this was inevitable. 114 is a bit more... "southern" while the rest of the Southern groups prefer the Northern European atmosphere. This variance in approach may seem insignificant and petty at first, but once one becomes immersed in the culture of the "South", the distinctions become clear and nuanced. As mentioned above, neither is better than the other.

In short, the main consequence of these differences is that we are not going to be able to sing together for 90 minutes. (Yet) There's nothing wrong with this fact, let's acknowledge it and reconcile it. Because doing so leads to the question - "OK, so what CAN we do?".

Well the answer is simple - we can cooperate in a limited fashion, as we have been. And furthermore, we can increase the effectiveness of this cooperation by formalizing it. It has to start small, I'm sure we're all full of grandiose ideas, but there are serious obstacles to complexity (with the foremost being that you have about 30 seconds of anyone's attention span on gameday).

So, last match day we came up with:
3 sync ups times per half:
-Game start: (Reds go marching in / Shalala)
-25' : It happened without warning
-40' : Back and forth
For the second half we did 45' and 75'.

The above worked pretty well and we should try to continue this trend. Repetition will eventually lead to tradition. Tradition will lead to evolution of the South as a whole.

Points to explore going forward:

-Commitment to a segment length for each song
-Numbering the songs, so that capos can indicate preparation for a song with hand signals
-Capos signalling transition from back and forth routines to "all together" with both arms raised (tried to convey this point last game but didn't even come close to working - too complex).

There will always be individuals on all sides, who are unable to reconcile our differences, who interpret our differences negatively, who are stuck in a vain hope that "they would be like us". This is a waste of time. Let's move forward and acknowledge that we are different, but that we also have the most important commonality - we all support the team. The best way to do this is through formalizing methodology.

Finally, this forum and thread is a great exchange of ideas. But the bottom line is that the actual plan will be hashed out at the stadium, pre-game, as it was last week. Let's do that again on Jun 1st, and see if we can follow it through even better than last time. Small steps.

-Boris

[Ivy]

Glad to see this thread evolved in a good direction. Good exchanges.
Nice to see people from all the groups chumming in, in a non hostile manner.

[Pint]

As we know, the balkanization of TFC supporters occurred due to a large diversity in supporter or "ultra" mentalities in Toronto. With such a multicultural setting, this was inevitable. 114 is a bit more... "southern" while the rest of the Southern groups prefer the Northern European atmosphere. This variance in approach may seem insignificant and petty at first, but once one becomes immersed in the culture of the "South", the distinctions become clear and nuanced. As mentioned above, neither is better than the other.

In short, the main consequence of these differences is that we are not going to be able to sing together for 90 minutes. (Yet) There's nothing wrong with this fact, let's acknowledge it and reconcile it. Because doing so leads to the question - "OK, so what CAN we do?".

Well the answer is simple - we can cooperate in a limited fashion, as we have been. And furthermore, we can increase the effectiveness of this cooperation by formalizing it. It has to start small, I'm sure we're all full of grandiose ideas, but there are serious obstacles to complexity (with the foremost being that you have about 30 seconds of anyone's attention span on gameday).

So, last match day we came up with:
3 sync ups times per half:
-Game start: (Reds go marching in / Shalala)
-25' : It happened without warning
-40' : Back and forth
For the second half we did 45' and 75'.

The above worked pretty well and we should try to continue this trend. Repetition will eventually lead to tradition. Tradition will lead to evolution of the South as a whole.

Points to explore going forward:

-Commitment to a segment length for each song
-Numbering the songs, so that capos can indicate preparation for a song with hand signals
-Capos signalling transition from back and forth routines to "all together" with both arms raised (tried to convey this point last game but didn't even come close to working - too complex).

There will always be individuals on all sides, who are unable to reconcile our differences, who interpret our differences negatively, who are stuck in a vain hope that "they would be like us". This is a waste of time. Let's move forward and acknowledge that we are different, but that we also have the most important commonality - we all support the team. The best way to do this is through formalizing methodology.

Finally, this forum and thread is a great exchange of ideas. But the bottom line is that the actual plan will be hashed out at the stadium, pre-game, as it was last week. Let's do that again on Jun 1st, and see if we can follow it through even better than last time. Small steps.

-Boris

Quoted because this was an awesome post.

1 thing to add would be to work out the tempo of certain songs, often times the tempo is different between sections.

[Cashcleaner]

Lots of great thoughts being put forward on this. Personally, I'd like to echo a few remarks that I think should be highlighted to help improve atmosphere:

1) The earlier people arrive, the better. I take the GO Train in for matches at BMO, and that means I'm often one of the first people walking into 112 on gameday. I've noticed time and time again that when the bulk of the supporters arrive early and prepared with time to spare priot to kick-off, it really helps start things off on a high note. On days when most people are still trying to get to their seats at kick-off, it tends to stay relatively quiet. I'm not pointing fingers at people who can't make kick-off due to any circumstances, I'm just saying it tends to help create a better south end when we do show up with time to spare.

2) Song coordination. I don't know exactly what can be done, but I'm glad a lot of people here see improved co-ordination as a big opportunity to keep us louder and in-sync. Off the top of my head, I'd like to suggest maybe something as simple as alternating. Have 112 do a chant and let the others pick it up. Then hand it over to 113 and have them lead a song. Then give it over to 114 and do the same. Then repeat it. Myself and others have been very upfront about not really caring who or what section starts a particular song or chant. If it works and is loud, we're going to want to join in.

3) Drums. Uhhhhh, can we please get more? I don't know if we are being limited by space or whatnot, but I'd really like to see an expanded percussion section. Is cost an issue? Could we get another fundraiser up and going like what we did with Red Thunder? Maybe it's just me, but I find a louder drum usually means better tempo when we're singing.

[Phil]

Lots of great thoughts being put forward on this. Personally, I'd like to echo a few remarks that I think should be highlighted to help improve atmosphere:

1) The earlier people arrive, the better. I take the GO Train in for matches at BMO, and that means I'm often one of the first people walking into 112 on gameday. I've noticed time and time again that when the bulk of the supporters arrive early and prepared with time to spare priot to kick-off, it really helps start things off on a high note. On days when most people are still trying to get to their seats at kick-off, it tends to stay relatively quiet. I'm not pointing fingers at people who can't make kick-off due to any circumstances, I'm just saying it tends to help create a better south end when we do show up with time to spare.

2) Song coordination. I don't know exactly what can be done, but I'm glad a lot of people here see improved co-ordination as a big opportunity to keep us louder and in-sync. Off the top of my head, I'd like to suggest maybe something as simple as alternating. Have 112 do a chant and let the others pick it up. Then hand it over to 113 and have them lead a song. Then give it over to 114 and do the same. Then repeat it. Myself and others have been very upfront about not really caring who or what section starts a particular song or chant. If it works and is loud, we're going to want to join in.

3) Drums. Uhhhhh, can we please get more? I don't know if we are being limited by space or whatnot, but I'd really like to see an expanded percussion section. Is cost an issue? Could we get another fundraiser up and going like what we did with Red Thunder? Maybe it's just me, but I find a louder drum usually means better tempo when we're singing.

We have a lot of drums to be honest. Right now we are working on getting more of them into the stadium. in the past we have been limited by unsecured storage space.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Has there been more movement on getting one of these installed?

http://www.cyclehoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/garden-locker1.jpg

[Phil]

^ Has there been more movement on getting one of these installed?

http://www.cyclehoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/garden-locker1.jpg

no, facilities wont allow it. The construction over the last 2 years has been the major issue. Now that there is the walkway and seeing the existing room after weather we should be fine with using what is already allocated. As well, there are other options being explored with the layout design somewhat settled now.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Ah well. Hopefully something will get figured out.

[Bardown Snipes]

Similar to the question about the drums l, do we have any more flags? I know we have a couple on the side of 112 and a few little ones here and there but for the most part, the majority of the flags that are visible are with the Inebriatti.

IMO, I feel that the flags are just as important as the cheering and chanting because 1) They look awesome when being waved 2) They can make the South End look more full then it is.

We could maybe get some flags or make some for 113 and start showing more. This could help make 113 look more of a supporters section as well as deter any casual fans who only want to watch the game/not cheer. I know that we don't want empty seats but this could be a solution to reclaiming the section as a supporter section.

-Cal

[Pint]

Similar to the question about the drums l, do we have any more flags? I know we have a couple on the side of 112 and a few little ones here and there but for the most part, the majority of the flags that are visible are with the Inebriatti.

IMO, I feel that the flags are just as important as the cheering and chanting because 1) They look awesome when being waved 2) They can make the South End look more full then it is.

We could maybe get some flags or make some for 113 and start showing more. This could help make 113 look more of a supporters section as well as deter any casual fans who only want to watch the game/not cheer. I know that we don't want empty seats but this could be a solution to reclaiming the section as a supporter section.

-Cal

Flags up during run of play has been an issue for years both within groups and with non affiliated fans, not sure if more flags would help or sour the atmosphere in the south.

[Brucey]

We could maybe get some flags or make some for 113 and start showing more. This could help make 113 look more of a supporters section as well as deter any casual fans who only want to watch the game/not cheer. I know that we don't want empty seats but this could be a solution to reclaiming the section as a supporter section.

-Cal

We have had a bunch of new flags in 113 this season, the home opener had almost every U-Sector flag that has ever been in 113 there, as well as 500 red and white flags that myself and a small team placed on each seat. I 100% agree with the importance of a visual display.

I will keep trying to have the flags prominent in 113, and we made those 4 new white skull flags this year with the intention that they will be at every home game this year.

[Belfast_Boy]

I'm going to talk to Boris and see what he does to help communications with 112 and 113. We could get a guy or two on the west side to do it with the Kings. I t think it worked ok in Montreal between me and Mike.

[Pint]

I'm going to talk to Boris and see what he does to help communications with 112 and 113. We could get a guy or two on the west side to do it with the Kings. I t think it worked ok in Montreal between me and Mike.

Usually you have a couple guys looking our way... can't recall exactly who it usually is but for some reason i think Pedro is one of them. Ill try and be at the stadium around 6 on june 1st we c an probably try and figure something out then.

[Alixir]

Fashcards could be another idea and a runner. Flashcards are used in packed football stadiums for play calling. A runner could go between each capo and map out the next few chants/songs etc.
All the capos have megaphones right...they can turn to each other and call out chants to other capos and the supporters with the megaphones...just pass it on down the line.

[FRANKIE65]

116, like bruce mentioned, is a damn shame. they're way too far away to be as involved as they need to be with the rest of us. i can't speak on their behalf, but i can't imagine that they enjoy living on an island when the rest of the groups are much closer together.. so having their presence in 115 would help immensely.




Definitely food for thought. Not sure how Pint feels about this, but, as a Kings member I wouldn't be opposed to us moving closer to the rest of the supporters groups. Would be pretty difficult to do at this point though, as, I'm sure most of the ticket holders in 115 wouldn't want to switch.

[Pint]

Definitely food for thought. Not sure how Pint feels about this, but, as a Kings member I wouldn't be opposed to us moving closer to the rest of the supporters groups. Would be pretty difficult to do at this point though, as, I'm sure most of the ticket holders in 115 wouldn't want to switch.

Baring a massive, fundamental change to the southend the current set up will be the long term set up of the south. They only built the new seats in 116 to convince us to move from 127.

Never know what the next evolution might bring though.

[__wowza]

I'll speak up for the kings part of 116... we do our best to link up but it is really only feasible with 114. We have times where we do operate like we are on our own island but try to join in what's going on else where the majority of the time but it's tough. We also have issues in 116 with people either not singing by choice or because the 118 drums drown the capo out or even worse just start singing over the capo because they don't want to follow.

just to clarify, i didn't mean the "on your own island" remark as a slight.. it's just impossible for 112 to link up. even with 114's help we can't hear that far across, so i don't know if we're co-ordinating at any point.

have you tried co-ordinating with 118 at all, or are they just doing their own thing?

[Pint]

just to clarify, i didn't mean the "on your own island" remark as a slight.. it's just impossible for 112 to link up. even with 114's help we can't hear that far across, so i don't know if we're co-ordinating at any point.

have you tried co-ordinating with 118 at all, or are they just doing their own thing?

Don't worry, didn't take it as a slight (I know you are far too nice to do that). I have no idea what 117/118 are doing, hard to coordinate if their is no point person (capo) leading what is going on.

[Bardown Snipes]

I 100% agree with the importance of a visual display.

I will keep trying to have the flags prominent in 113, and we made those 4 new white skull flags this year with the intention that they will be at every home game this year.

Anyone know how many flags we have in 116? I know I have seen a few Kings in the North flags but I don't think they have too many. Is there any way we could try and spread out the flags throughout the South End (except 112 and 114 as they are pretty good)? Since the South Stand is mainly a supporters section, I think that most fans would be willing to have flags up for portions of the game.

[DinamoTFC]

Definitely food for thought. Not sure how Pint feels about this, but, as a Kings member I wouldn't be opposed to us moving closer to the rest of the supporters groups. Would be pretty difficult to do at this point though, as, I'm sure most of the ticket holders in 115 wouldn't want to switch.

I think if 115 had a capo or a runner i feel like the section has potential to be loud but requires a little bit of energy to kick start it. A lot of people want to sing but usually are out of unison.

The back and forth chant "oooohoohoho..t.o" has done the best to get majority of the south ends participation. We need to keep doing that one at least a couple times a game. And it sounds great! Torcida Split does a great job of getting the whole stadium involved with that chant and its so simple.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej80tpAMKo

[Red4ever]

I think that most fans would be willing to have flags up for portions of the game.

Not to burst bubbles but that won't fly. The flags just block the view of too many people. At the opener someone had an RPB flag up for the first 5 minutes and there was going to be a fight. In fact anytime there is a flag up for an extended period, people almost come to blows.

The esthetics are nice but as been said many times everyone has their own way of support and the line seems to be excessive flag waiving.

[denime]

Anyone know how many flags we have in 116? I know I have seen a few Kings in the North flags but I don't think they have too many. Is there any way we could try and spread out the flags throughout the South End (except 112 and 114 as they are pretty good)? Since the South Stand is mainly a supporters section, I think that most fans would be willing to have flags up for portions of the game.

You are wrong about his one,flags were and still are big issue for many people. More flags will help visually,but that's about it,people that can't see the game will get pissed and stop participating in chats and singing.

[denime]

I think if 115 had a capo or a runner i feel like the section has potential to be loud but requires a little bit of energy to kick start it. A lot of people want to sing but usually are out of unison.

The back and forth chant "oooohoohoho..t.o" has done the best to get majority of the south ends participation. We need to keep doing that one at least a couple times a game. And it sounds great! Torcida Split does a great job of getting the whole stadium involved with that chant and its so simple.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej80tpAMKo

BBB Dinamo fan,shows Torcida Hajduk video,that must hurt,eh?:o

Joking aside, I'm in 1st row in 115,and there is no capo that can help move that section. I have few friends squeezing in almost every game and trying to get it going,we might get first 2-3 rows and that's it.

One problem are tourists,every game different faces,some of them, getting pissed because they cant sit down and watch,whats else do I need to say.

In my opinion huge problem for us in front of 115 is 116 being out of sink with the rest,it's killing us,5-6,10 seconds to late,or while 112-114 is doing one thing,116 is doing their own,not only its so damn annoying,but it's almost impossible to follow left or right from us.

[denime]

As we know, the balkanization :flare:of TFC supporters occurred due to a large diversity in supporter or "ultra" mentalities in Toronto. With such a multicultural setting, this was inevitable. 114 is a bit more... "southern" while the rest of the Southern groups prefer the Northern European atmosphere. This variance in approach may seem insignificant and petty at first, but once one becomes immersed in the culture of the "South", the distinctions become clear and nuanced. As mentioned above, neither is better than the other.

In short, the main consequence of these differences is that we are not going to be able to sing together for 90 minutes. (Yet) There's nothing wrong with this fact, let's acknowledge it and reconcile it. Because doing so leads to the question - "OK, so what CAN we do?".

Well the answer is simple - we can cooperate in a limited fashion, as we have been. And furthermore, we can increase the effectiveness of this cooperation by formalizing it. It has to start small, I'm sure we're all full of grandiose ideas, but there are serious obstacles to complexity (with the foremost being that you have about 30 seconds of anyone's attention span on gameday).

So, last match day we came up with:
3 sync ups times per half:
-Game start: (Reds go marching in / Shalala)
-25' : It happened without warning
-40' : Back and forth
For the second half we did 45' and 75'.

The above worked pretty well and we should try to continue this trend. Repetition will eventually lead to tradition. Tradition will lead to evolution of the South as a whole.

Points to explore going forward:

-Commitment to a segment length for each song
-Numbering the songs, so that capos can indicate preparation for a song with hand signals
-Capos signalling transition from back and forth routines to "all together" with both arms raised (tried to convey this point last game but didn't even come close to working - too complex).

There will always be individuals on all sides, who are unable to reconcile our differences, who interpret our differences negatively, who are stuck in a vain hope that "they would be like us". This is a waste of time. Let's move forward and acknowledge that we are different, but that we also have the most important commonality - we all support the team. The best way to do this is through formalizing methodology.

Finally, this forum and thread is a great exchange of ideas. But the bottom line is that the actual plan will be hashed out at the stadium, pre-game, as it was last week. Let's do that again on Jun 1st, and see if we can follow it through even better than last time. Small steps.

-Boris

Like the post,good ideas.

[DinamoTFC]

BBB Dinamo fan,shows Torcida Hajduk video,that must hurt,eh?:o

Joking aside, I'm in 1st row in 115,and there is no capo that can help move that section. I have few friends squeezing in almost every game and trying to get it going,we might get first 2-3 rows and that's it.

One problem are tourists,every game different faces,some of them, getting pissed because they cant sit down and watch,whats else do I need to say.

In my opinion huge problem for us in front of 115 is 116 being out of sink with the rest,it's killing us,5-6,10 seconds to late,or while 112-114 is doing one thing,116 is doing their own,not only its so damn annoying,but it's almost impossible to follow left or right from us.

haha touche. Well gotta give respect when its due and maybe the one and only thing they're good at is putting on a show. :wink5:

And I agree with your opinion that its frustrating when 116 and 114/etc are singing different chants or off beat. Can get confusing and people either dont join in or it ends up happening that different people are singing different songs. That needs to be fixed right away.

Regarding the tourists, that's a tough one like you said. If people sell their tickets I hope they're telling the buyer its a supporters section with standing and singing at the least.

[Pint]

BBB Dinamo fan,shows Torcida Hajduk video,that must hurt,eh?:o

Joking aside, I'm in 1st row in 115,and there is no capo that can help move that section. I have few friends squeezing in almost every game and trying to get it going,we might get first 2-3 rows and that's it.

One problem are tourists,every game different faces,some of them, getting pissed because they cant sit down and watch,whats else do I need to say.

In my opinion huge problem for us in front of 115 is 116 being out of sink with the rest,it's killing us,5-6,10 seconds to late,or while 112-114 is doing one thing,116 is doing their own,not only its so damn annoying,but it's almost impossible to follow left or right from us.

Are you closer to 114 or the 116 side of 115?

[Parkdale]

one minor thing to add...

Remember back in year 2 or 3 when we could get a massive going from 112/113 all the way up to the guys in 127? That was litterally across the stadium, and it was amazing.

I thing that a simple plan might be like this:

Massive Round 1 - 112 sings to 111 (like normal)
Massive Round 2 - 112 AND 111 sing towards 113 and 114. They all know the first verse in 111, so hopefully they catch on.

It would just take strategic hand pointing to let them know what was coming. Also a good response from 113/114

[Cashcleaner]

We have had a bunch of new flags in 113 this season, the home opener had almost every U-Sector flag that has ever been in 113 there, as well as 500 red and white flags that myself and a small team placed on each seat. I 100% agree with the importance of a visual display.

I will keep trying to have the flags prominent in 113, and we made those 4 new white skull flags this year with the intention that they will be at every home game this year.

Just wanted to say I love your 113 flag that has the white lettering on the mix of random red and grey colouring. I don't know why, but it really stands out in my mind. Looks great!


Baring a massive, fundamental change to the southend the current set up will be the long term set up of the south. They only built the new seats in 116 to convince us to move from 127.

Never know what the next evolution might bring though.

The one good thing is that as each year passes, we're able to pick up a few more seats for RPB members here and there in 112 as other fans drop their season seats or move to another area. Unfortunately, it's been taking a long time to slowly filter people in or out, but it's happening.


You are wrong about his one, flags were and still are big issue for many people. More flags will help visually, but that's about it, people that can't see the game will get pissed and stop participating in chats and singing.

Surely there is a middle ground people can reach? I get people not wanting a flag or a banner up and in their face for a full 90, but I think it's ridiculous for a small minority of supporters in 112 to insist on an outright ban on any visual display during the game.

[lintberg]

Would love to see more participation at the top of 110, we have 2 drums up there and NOT a lot of people singing with us.

Any RPB's up there...lets get loud!

We try to stay in sync with 112 using visual cues but it can be difficult at times.....we are doing our best!!
Any help or more drums/capo's would be greatly appreciated!!

[Red4ever]

Surely there is a middle ground people can reach? I get people not wanting a flag or a banner up and in their face for a full 90, but I think it's ridiculous for a small minority of supporters in 112 to insist on an outright ban on any visual display during the game.

I think there is a middle ground and that we are close to it now. People still wave flags during play so "outright ban" is a little over the top, and I'd wager the flag wavers are in the minority. I think the issue is that no one who is waiving flags in the first 9 rows really gets their view blocked.

Most people want to watch the game. I wish we'd focus our attention on being in sync and loud and then worry about other stuff. But it is to each their own.

[Pint]

The one good thing is that as each year passes, we're able to pick up a few more seats for RPB members here and there in 112 as other fans drop their season seats or move to another area. Unfortunately, it's been taking a long time to slowly filter people in or out, but it's happening. .

Yep we were able to get 36 people in this year and i think O109's got a good number as well. It takes time to get space for new people and it can take some time for them to fully embrace the southend mentality, seeing it and wanting to be part of it is different than actually doing it for people that come from non traditional supporting heritages.

[Red4ever]

Also on another note, numbers to communicate chants might be hard to see. Coloured flash cards would probably work well.

[pdogg]

Also on another note, numbers to communicate chants might be hard to see. Coloured flash cards would probably work well.

What about flags for each the capos? Certain colours/designs signal a song coming up. The flag wouldn't even have to be that huge and you could get creative with it (country/team/city flags). If there was a slot on the capo stand, you could signal well in advance what the next song was going to be by throwing the flag up on it.

To be clear, I'm talking about something like a 3' or 4' flag, not those tiny ones on straws :)

[T-boy]

I think if 115 had a capo or a runner i feel like the section has potential to be loud but requires a little bit of energy to kick start it. A lot of people want to sing but usually are out of unison.

The back and forth chant "oooohoohoho..t.o" has done the best to get majority of the south ends participation. We need to keep doing that one at least a couple times a game. And it sounds great! Torcida Split does a great job of getting the whole stadium involved with that chant and its so simple.



Unfortunately I think we are so far away from getting a "whole stadium" chant going its insane. I think its partly just the North American differences to "soccer fans" compared to other areas of the world - and partly due to the number of tourists always in each section.

Unless "we" lower ourselves to chanting "offense" and "deeefense" I don't think the average tourist is ever going to get involved in chants. 'Maybe' a good old fashioned "Come on you reds", but anything more complex seems to boggle the minds of tourist fans.

[OgtheDim]

Oh, simple stadium wide chants are very much a doable goal here.

There's 18K season ticket holders, which means at any game there are roughly 12K (maybe?) of people that are always there. In a stadium of 30K, 12K who are used to hearing, seeing and doing things can do a lot.

E.g. the West side stomps cause somebody once stomped and now that's become something everybody can join in if they choose.

Needs time and gosh we need to see some Seba magic and a few wins to get the juices flowing but I'd say the way things are progressing that a full stadium join in on a couple of chants is very doable by the middle of next season.


If the South leads together, the rest will follow.

[Pint]

Full stadium chants are a ways away but maybe a "TFC Clap, Clap, Clap" on corners or an ambitious "Oh when the reds" at the start of the game could happen.

If people want things to catch on the people on the upper east and upper west who are in this thread should just join in with the back and forth chants (probably the ohooh TO on is the easiest) and see if that sparks any around you.

[T-boy]

Simple is definitely the best approach if we want a large volume of people chanting at the same time.

I do get the impression that the Inebriatti, at least, don't want to keep it simple and just want to do their thing - which is a bunch of TFC specific complex, long, wordy songs. But that's never going to get anybody other than the front of 114 singing. They are loud, I will give them some credit, but also very exclusive.

[Pint]

It kinda comes down to how much effort people want to put in to learn new songs, we are all reasonably intelligent people and if we want to learn a song we should be able to. The more wordy a chant is the harder it will be to sync up though witch could play a factor into the reach a song has.

[StokeciTFC]

Maybe a chant that the majority of other sports fans in Toronto can relate to is the way to go with simplicity. 'Go Reds Go' is instantly learnable and familiar in its rhythm to the Leafs and the Jays iterations. I realize that may be anathema to some on here but if anything is going to catch on stadium-wide, that has a good chance.


Full stadium chants are a ways away but maybe a "TFC Clap, Clap, Clap" on corners or an ambitious "Oh when the reds" at the start of the game could happen.

If people want things to catch on the people on the upper east and upper west who are in this thread should just join in with the back and forth chants (probably the ohooh TO on is the easiest) and see if that sparks any around you.

[Lennon]

Maybe a chant that the majority of other sports fans in Toronto can relate to is the way to go with simplicity. 'Go Reds Go' is instantly learnable and familiar in its rhythm to the Leafs and the Jays iterations. I realize that may be anathema to some on here but if anything is going to catch on stadium-wide, that has a good chance.

:facepalm: can we not.

There's nothing lamer than 'go team go'. Most of the stadium should be familiar with 'T-F-C, clap clap clap' by now. Let's go with that.

[T-boy]

:facepalm: can we not.

There's nothing lamer than 'go team go'. Most of the stadium should be familiar with 'T-F-C, clap clap clap' by now. Let's go with that.

I understand the facepalm, but we (SG's) have to realise that we are still in the minority of supporters. The majority would still get into "go reds go" more than almost any song. I know its sad and unfortunate, but its true.

[StokeciTFC]

I understand the facepalm, but we (SG's) have to realise that we are still in the minority of supporters. The majority would still get into "go reds go" more than almost any song. I know its sad and unfortunate, but its true.


Thank you. I don't have any fondness for the chant either, but if people are talking about a simple chant that the whole stadium can take up, that is by far your best option, like it or not.

[StokeciTFC]

:facepalm: can we not.

There's nothing lamer than 'go team go'. Most of the stadium should be familiar with 'T-F-C, clap clap clap' by now. Let's go with that.

See my reply above mate, and think about my post before you throw in the unnecessary facepalm.

[Pint]

Honestly "Go Reds Go" would probably turn off a fair number of the people currently leading and being loud. It's probably the denominator we would need to sink to if we wanted to get everyone going but I doubt it would be worth it.

[StokeciTFC]

Honestly "Go Reds Go" would probably turn off a fair number of the people currently leading and being loud. It's probably the denominator we would need to sink to if we wanted to get everyone going but I doubt it would be worth it.

I get it and I'm not here to argue that it should be adopted, not at all. It's just in response to a post suggesting a simple chant that could catch on throughout the whole stadium.

This is North America, not East, West, South or North Europe or South America and people support their sports teams in a curiously North American way. I'd guess that if TFC really caught on amongst the non-hardcore soccer supporters that MLSE would love to snare, then 'GO Reds Go' would quite possibly be the go-to chant of the vast majority of the stadium, irrespective of what the South chose to sing.

[Red4ever]

Go reds go is no easier than TFC clap clap clap. In fact it's probably less instinctual at this stage.

If people don't wanna do TFC clap clap clap, they aren't doing anything.

[StokeciTFC]

No easier, no, but more familiar, yes.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think if we're talking about people who balk, bat an eyelash or are just confounded by TFC clapclapclap it may as well be

GO FC GO.

This year they don't always wear red at home.

[Red4ever]

No easier, no, but more familiar, yes.

Not gonna scrap with you over this because I do appreciate the suggestion, but I'm not sure it's accurate.

People have been going to TFC games for years and the one chant they know is TFC clap clap clap. If they only know one, that's it. So could we add another simple chant of the same ease that people may like over time, sure. But stealing the leafs chant isn't really necessary when we have a suitable alternative.

[Petor]

I think if we're talking about people who balk, bat an eyelash or are just confounded by TFC clapclapclap it may as well be

GO FC GO.

This year they don't always wear red at home.

I was in 208 for the last match.
During a corner kick a chant that originated in the north east was
T-F-C over and over again to the rhythm of Go Leafs Go.
It did get quite loud.

I guess you can't get any simpler than that.

[Bardown Snipes]

I think the overall goal if we can agree is to get more of the stadium participating in cheering/singing and the best way for us to do this is to continue to have threads like this one where people can interact with other supporters and representatives from supporters in various sections. I have no doubt that one day, all of BMO will be singing together but we have to start small and so far this season I think we have.

As OgtheDim stated, the stomping at the beginning of the game is beginning to catch on. The main point here is that everything will take time but I am optimistic and so far in this thread it seems that everyone is willing to try some new things in the future to get more of the South Stand and surrounding areas singing/chanting together.

[Red Adder]

Would MLSE FO (front office, right :D) be willing to play some great-sounding recordings of some chants 15 mins before game, or during half-time?

I would be willing to give up some of the pop tunes, and learn more of the chants.

[Eli]

Would MLSE FO (front office, right :D) be willing to play some great-sounding recordings of some chants 15 mins before game, or during half-time?

I would be willing to give up some of the pop tunes, and learn more of the chants.

They should just kill the music and let us sing in my opinion but I imagine that they have paid a pretty penny for the rights to the songs that they play in the stadium during warm up and at half time so they'll likely not be willing to not play the songs that they've paid for.

[Pint]

New sound system as much as songs... new toy needs to be played with. Or at least that's what I was told when I asked

[DOMIN8R]

I love the improvements. But the sound system is the biggest disappointment for me. It sounded great opening day. After that, the volume was or seems to have been turned way down. At least, in my section. No one in my section can even hear what they are saying after the match begins.

[Ivy]

I love the improvements. But the sound system is the biggest disappointment for me. It sounded great opening day. After that, the volume was or seems to have been turned way down. At least, in my section. No one in my section can even hear what they are saying after the match begins.
Same. Can't hear much from where I usually am.

[Still Kicking]

Upper West Stand, lower rows of section 220, I find the sound system overwhelming. Speakers are directly above us and pointing at us. Pre-game conversation with friends turns into yelling to get your voice above the pop music.

[magmadragon]

Same problem in 111. Sound was fantastic for the home opener, best I ever heard it at BMO Field. Since then it is even worse than in the past. I don't know if they re-adjusted the position on the speakers, but I can't hear anything.

[chbu12]

Nice work yesterday ladies and gentlemen. The 3 scripted syncs in the first half were really good. Let's firm up the 2nd half a little better next match. 80th minute "House on Lakeshore" was great, how about we make that a constant?

We failed a couple of times too, but that's nothing to worry about, this will happen. We know that the logistics of it are much harder than they appear.

Was expecting low turnout and energy, but 112 and 117 really brought it, and I noticed even more than usual casual participation in the back rows and 113 (well done Brucey), particularly on sync ups.

Looking forward to seeing you all on Saturday (Oh Canada) and on Jun 18th.

-Boris (Inebriatti)

[Cashcleaner]

Couldn't make the game myself, but from what I saw and heard on television the atmosphere was definitely elevated. :thumbsup:

[Pint]

Happy it sounded decent, still half dead in 116 (not sure if better or worse than before) and could be because of a number of new faces.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Nice work yesterday ladies and gentlemen. The 3 scripted syncs in the first half were really good. Let's firm up the 2nd half a little better next match. 80th minute "House on Lakeshore" was great, how about we make that a constant?

We failed a couple of times too, but that's nothing to worry about, this will happen. We know that the logistics of it are much harder than they appear.

Was expecting low turnout and energy, but 112 and 117 really brought it, and I noticed even more than usual casual participation in the back rows and 113 (well done Brucey), particularly on sync ups.

Looking forward to seeing you all on Saturday (Oh Canada) and on Jun 18th.

-Boris (Inebriatti)

The song we just call "The Bounce" now is reserved for winning after the 80th. That's why we haven't seen it much but here's hoping we'll be seeing a lot more of it!

Great job again Boris! Thanks!

[Pint]

Maybe we should wait later in the match as it seams to bring bad luck lol

[Mateo1985]

I was watching the game from 219 coz I brought my colleagues with me and they kind of intimidated going to the south end with me for their first game.

I gotta say that the stadium looked empty-ish at the beginning but then the entire south end just brought it!!! It was insanely loud. The sync ups looked amazing and I could easily hear all chants from up on the second deck. It was awesome to see all SGs work together like that. And the bounce looked freaking great. I was actually sorry to have had watched the game from the second deck and not the south end lol

Really looking forward to the next one!!!

[Red4ever]

Interesting. As I walked towards the stadium from the gates, All i heard was Impact supporters. I was preparing to see 400 of them.

Then as I got inside I couldnt, (to borrow a line) hear a f*cking thing from them. It is frustrating that the new roof helps make away support appear louder than us via a roof on steroids.

If only outside the stadium.

[flatpicker]

Couldn't make the game myself, but from what I saw and heard on television the atmosphere was definitely elevated. :thumbsup:

I watched on tv for the first time.
There is definitely more crowd buzz,
but the south didn't come through very clearly.
Even when so many were doing the Bounce late in the game.

I think they need to put more mics in the south,
maybe hang them from the roof?
It would really boost the atmosphere on tv.

[CanadaLFC]

Great coordination between 114 and 112 yesterday. I was standing in 113 and unfortunately it's a dead zone bar a few people at the bottom.

[Lennon]

What happened to Usector? They can't still be in 113 ..

[Soccer Mum]

What happened to Usector? They can't still be in 113 ..


Kind of sad actually. They used to be so good.

[chbu12]

The song we just call "The Bounce" now is reserved for winning after the 80th. That's why we haven't seen it much but here's hoping we'll be seeing a lot more of it!


Of course, I should have known better, thanks for the correction! We need to spread that to the whole South. Maybe we can set the 80th as a syncup mark regardless, and do The Bounce if winning and "Rain or Snow" if losing.

[Lennon]

Guys in 116 should migrate to 113. It's all general admission anyway if you get there early enough :wink5:

[Pint]

We enjoy drinking with Usector, especially on the road (peel pub was awesome pre mtl game) but we have no desire to move into 113.

[Soccer Mum]

Not trying to shit disturb here, but should people wearing opposition jerseys really be allowed to stand in the south end?

[Pint]

Not trying to shit disturb here, but should people wearing opposition jerseys really be allowed to stand in the south end?

Absolutely not, especially if they are impact fans

[Jack]

Not trying to shit disturb here, but should people wearing opposition jerseys really be allowed to stand in the south end?
They usually get relocated by stadium staff before anything happens.

[Bardown Snipes]

The coordination yesterday was awesome. We synced up many times with the other sections and after watching the highlights when I got home, we were definitely heard! I even noticed the some fans in 113 higher up got involved too. Overall, great improvement from the last game

[C.Ronaldo]

Interesting. As I walked towards the stadium from the gates, All i heard was Impact supporters. I was preparing to see 400 of them.

Then as I got inside I couldnt, (to borrow a line) hear a f*cking thing from them. It is frustrating that the new roof helps make away support appear louder than us via a roof on steroids.

If only outside the stadium.

yah, their sound really bounces off that roof

[Soccer Mum]

They usually get relocated by stadium staff before anything happens.

There were two guys wearing Drogba shirts. One in 113 (to be fair, there were a lot of tourists there) and one in 114. No one said anything to them. I'm all for a safe viewing experience, but this kind of stuff should not be tolerated.


Also I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but ffs please stop wearing European club shirts to TFC. I don't understand this thought process.

[Jack]

There were two guys wearing Drogba shirts. One in 113 (to be fair, there were a lot of tourists there) and one in 114. No one said anything to them. I'm all for a safe viewing experience, but this kind of stuff should not be tolerated.


Also I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but ffs please stop wearing European club shirts to TFC. I don't understand this thought process.
Drogba shirts from some European team aren't the same thing as wearing an opponent's actual kit. I can sort of understand guys wearing the jersey of one of their all-time heroes. I still think it sucks, but those people will sometimes get a pass. I have a tough time hating on David Villa because of everything he did at Barça, but I wouldn't wear my Barcelona jersey to a TFC match.

[jimiv]

There were two guys wearing Drogba shirts. One in 113 (to be fair, there were a lot of tourists there) and one in 114. No one said anything to them. I'm all for a safe viewing experience, but this kind of stuff should not be tolerated

A few of us were discussing this recently, if the south is truly a supports section then issue supporter cards instead of tickets, allowing a finite number of ticket transfers say 30% per seat. If you want to bring a buddy then you hand him the card, if you sell your seat then they get the card.This would no doubt completely remove the scalpers and tourists from the section pretty fast.

[Alonso]

There were two guys wearing Drogba shirts. One in 113 (to be fair, there were a lot of tourists there) and one in 114. No one said anything to them. I'm all for a safe viewing experience, but this kind of stuff should not be tolerated.


Also I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but ffs please stop wearing European club shirts to TFC. I don't understand this thought process.


IMO some of this is football supporters probably feeling out the TFC experience and wearing what they have to support the cause.

I did this for the first year or two wearing Colo-Colo, Atlante, Chile and Mexico national jersey's.

It's just newbies trying it out and wearing the only football jersey's they got.

Be nice, be chill, and help bring them on board for TFC! This is where we recruit new people into the fold.


Funnily enough I wore a TFC jersey for two years subsequent to that, and then stopped and just wear my civies. Didn't think the team deserved me wearing the jersey the way they were playing. When the Bloody Big Deal happened I almost flinched and bought. But years of supporting this team taught me to be patient and see what was happening versus hoping. Still haven't bought a jersey since 2010... things are looking like I'l be buying one again come the end of this season.

[eustacchio]

Maybe it's not tourists/newbies/scalped seats but people who have been there the entire time. Maybe they are simply ten years older and have stopped giving a shit what people think ... only to then be harassed by tourists and newbs.

Don't get me wrong, I think if you're going to wear a jersey it should be TFC, and I'm not condoning not giving a shit. I've just been thinking about how long some of us have known each other, and how much has changed in that time.

That and a couple of buddies (long time southenders) wore the new alt kit to the home opener and got some grief - for wearing TFC kits - from some unfamiliar faces. They'd never seen them before. Haven't seen them since.

[Red4ever]

That and a couple of buddies (long time southenders) wore the new alt kit to the home opener and got some grief - for wearing TFC kits - from some unfamiliar faces. They'd never seen them before. Haven't seen them since.

Hopefully they got a lifetime ban.

[eustacchio]

Hopefully they got a lifetime ban.

We no longer speak to each other.

[Lennon]

IMO some of this is football supporters probably feeling out the TFC experience and wearing what they have to support the cause.

I did this for the first year or two wearing Colo-Colo, Atlante, Chile and Mexico national jersey's.

It's just newbies trying it out and wearing the only football jersey's they got.

Be nice, be chill, and help bring them on board for TFC! This is where we recruit new people into the fold.


It's one thing to wear some random team's jersey, but wearing one of Montreal's star player?

:red:

Get that shit outta here.

[Soccer Mum]

Thread getting a little derailed(although aesthetics is an important aspect of atmosphere).

I think after a few games and in the latter half of the season, the southend will sound amazing. We're all trying and it will work out, no doubt.