No Giovinco for Euro 2016?

[findingtoronto]

very surprised at this, Seba not made the Italy squad for Euro 2016

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3593873/Sunderland-striker-Fabio-Borini-included-Italy-s-preliminary-squad-Euro-2016-veteran-Andrea-Pirlo-misses-out.html

[Blindside16]

very surprised at this, Seba not made the Italy squad for Euro 2016

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3593873/Sunderland-striker-Fabio-Borini-included-Italy-s-preliminary-squad-Euro-2016-veteran-Andrea-Pirlo-misses-out.html

That is only the preliminary squad. The actual squad won't be named until May 31st. All that squad is people Conte wants to have a closer look at.

[Bobo]

This list doesn't feature players who have matches to play on the weekend.

[ronzilla]

May 31 is the EUFA deadline for teams to hand in their list. From what I gather, Conte will announce the list next Monday.

I don't think Seba is ruled out. Conte is just exploring his options with new faces and is also being respectful of other clubs schedule.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Thread title edited for accuracy.

[DeRo2015]

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/732286900736790529

[Pint]

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/732286900736790529

looking at some of the comments and his response it appears he just assumed they were ommitted from the squad instead of thinking they are lumped in with players who are still playing competitive matches this weekend.

[barticusz]

If he is indeed officially omitted, does he continue to play as the SEBA we love or does he turn into another Defoe?

[Ruffian]

looking at some of the comments and his response it appears he just assumed they were ommitted from the squad instead of thinking they are lumped in with players who are still playing competitive matches this weekend.

He does not know "officially". Kind of hurts this BeIN Sports Commentator's reputation. Puts him in a tabloid or rumour reporter category.

[Pint]

He does not know "officially". Kind of hurts this BeIN Sports Commentator's reputation. Puts him in a tabloid or rumour reporter category.

seams like he tried to add 2 + 2 but got 47 as his answer.

[OgtheDim]

I had to look to see if this was the same guy suggesting we were getting Bettega or Donnadoni or Gattuso as president or manager.

[TFC Tifoso]

guys, Conte left out all players who still have competitive games, in Europe or not.....Juve & Milan players were left out of camp because there is still the Coppa Italia to play (except Bonucci, he's suspended for the game which is why he's at the Italy camp), Pirlo & Giovinco left out because of games in MLS (Pirlo is expected to get the call for the Azzurri due to late season injuries in the midfield - Marchisio & Verratti).....

[MartinUtd]

If he is indeed officially omitted, does he continue to play as the SEBA we love or does he turn into another Defoe?

Scary thought. It puts us into a weird position of wanting to lose him for six weeks if that's the case.

[C.Ronaldo]

long term, we need him to go.

no one will come if it hurts their national team chances

[adam1001]

I really want Gio to get the call up, but there is a lot of speculation suggesting that he has in fact been omitted. We shall see next week.

[Pint]

The thing is he wasn't getting called before he came here and coming here earned him another shot, where he did well. If he doesn't get the call its more a coach/system thing than an mls thing.

[james]

I want him to make the Eruos because Seba probably would love the chance to play for his country and in a Euro competition, but other part of me does not want him to make it so he continues to play for TFC....if he was to miss 4-6 weeks of MLS action TFC could miss some crucial points in the standings (lets face it, he is leading this entire team, without him we might really struggle to score goals!)

[james]

long term, we need him to go.

no one will come if it hurts their national team chances

but I think one reason he is loving it here in Toronto is because he is getting real play time. He wasn't getting much play in Italy Seria A and he wasn't getting field time with the national team, in fact I think he finally got some field time for Italy qualifiers after playing a season for TFC. Truth is with out coming to TFC he probably would of had no chance, now he still might not get the call, but he might of got a better chance by being here then over there!

[Hamilton_Red]

He needs to go & show that the MLS isn't the backwater everyone thinks. He also needs to go because this team need to learn to win without him - to develop some depth and confidence. He's carried this team for the last year and a half.

[Ivy]

I don't understand this - if he doesn't get called.
He was immense in their qualifying games, a game changer.

[Bobo]

Conte today: "Those who are here and are not part of the group of players engaged in official matches, can go on vacation."

Note the plural. Absentees are not only from the Coppa final. I think we should all write Conte a thank you letter for allowing us to go down and watch Seba for the two matches this week.

[ronzilla]

Conte knows Seba well and is probably aware that he is lighting it up at MLS. I think he will get the call but not a starting position.

[burlington Red]

Conte today: "Those who are here and are not part of the group of players engaged in official matches, can go on vacation."

Note the plural. Absentees are not only from the Coppa final. I think we should all write Conte a thank you letter for allowing us to go down and watch Seba for the two matches this week.

darmian at Utd have Fa Cup final on sat, although he is an injury doubt at this stage, but he'd be one of the players excused from provisional group also

[Red CB Toronto]

Also remember the MLS player were not gettig released for any camps until after the games this weekend.

[Brooker]

According to the BBC, it's Steven Giovinco.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36339114


MLS top five earners
1. Kaka (Orlanda City) Salary: $7,167,500 (£4,908,204)
2. Steven Giovinco (Toronto) Salary: $7,115,556 (£4,872,633)
3. Michael Bradley (Toronto) Salary: $6,500,000 (£4,451,109)
4. Steven Gerrard (LA Galaxy) Salary: $6,132,500 (£4,199,450)
5. Frank Lampard (New York City) Salary: $6,000,000 (£4,108,66)

[Oldtimer]

According to the BBC, it's Steven Giovinco.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36339114

That's the problem with spell-checkers. :)

[SenorDingDong]

Conte knows Seba well and is probably aware that he is lighting it up at MLS. I think he will get the call but not a starting position.

Doesn't matter if he doesn't start, but I hope he goes. Conte didn't pick him for this preliminary round as he still has club games.

In my opinion, Conte is nuts if he does not pick him. Very few other Italian strikers have as much confidence as Seba does right now.

He would be an awesome spark, starting or off the bench.

[Areathrasher]

He's not on the 30 preliminary squad

[OgtheDim]

Forwards: Candreva, Eder, El Shaarawy, Immobile, Insigne, Pelle, Zaza

Who would you put Seba instead of?

[Bobo]

Who would you put Seba instead of?

They don't need all of Pelle, Zaza and Immobile. Chances are only one of them will start at a time. Immobile hasn't even been the best Italian striker on his team. They need a 2nd FW and don't really have one, outside of Eder.

[69Chevy396]

They don't need all of Pelle, Zaza and Immobile. Chances are only one of them will start at a time. Immobile hasn't even been the best Italian striker on his team. They need a 2nd FW and don't really have one, outside of Eder.
When I saw him in Rome, I am pretty sure, he subbed as a midfielder.

[Yohan]

The message is pretty clear. No names in Serie A have a better chance of making the Italy squad for a major tourney than dominating a league like MLS.
I thought my read of Giovinco was that he was trying just a little too hard, to make an impression on Conte that he deserves a spot on Italy squad.

We'll see how Giovinco reacts. Our best case is that Giovinco plays on and uses this snub to motivate himself to another MVP season.
I suspect if Giovinco has any desire to play for Italy squad for WC2018, he'll ask for a transfer back to Europe, take a pay cut to play for a mid table Serie A team or even play in England to get himself back into contention for Italy squad.
MLS just don't get enough respect in Europe yet.

[69Chevy396]

The message is pretty clear. No names in Serie A have a better chance of making the Italy squad for a major tourney than dominating a league like MLS.
I thought my read of Giovinco was that he was trying just a little too hard, to make an impression on Conte that he deserves a spot on Italy squad.

We'll see how Giovinco reacts. Our best case is that Giovinco plays on and uses this snub to motivate himself to another MVP season.
I suspect if Giovinco has any desire to play for Italy squad for WC2018, he'll ask for a transfer back to Europe, take a pay cut to play for a mid table Serie A team or even play in England to get himself back into contention for Italy squad.
MLS just don't get enough respect in Europe yet.
For many Italian soccer fans, MLS is a non entity. They would have the same interest in it, as you or I would in a level 2 league in Botswana. I have many Italian cousins whom I keep contact with, and all feel Giovinco screwed up by leaving Europe. Few care about his MLS heroics, because few care about the league. They felt the same about Del Piero when he played well in Australia. Nobody gave a shit.
I think this rejection will affect Giovinco's game in MLS. After what he did that day in October for his national team, he must feel betrayed somewhat.

[SenorDingDong]

For many Italian soccer fans, MLS is a non entity. They would have the same interest in it, as you or I would in a level 2 league in Botswana. I have many Italian cousins whom I keep contact with, and all feel Giovinco screwed up by leaving Europe. Few care about his MLS heroics, because few care about the league. They felt the same about Del Piero when he played well in Australia. Nobody gave a shit.
I think this rejection will affect Giovinco's game in MLS. After what he did that day in October for his national team, he must feel betrayed somewhat.

I unfortunately also think this will affect him.

What a brutal Italy squad btw...

[Detroit_TFC]

My hot take is that Conte should have been replaced as Italy manager as soon as he publicly accepted the Chelsea job. Now he is a short timer giving zero fucks.

I am not at all optimistic about how this affects Giovinco's psyche. But let's see who the next Azzuri manager is, and that will certainly influence whether Seba feels he needs to return to Italy or not.

[Lennon]

Great news right? Montreal lose Ciman and Giovinco stays with us :D

#battleofontarioplz

[DinamoTFC]

Bad and disrespectful decision for Italy. Weak lineup and conte will come to regret it.

[ensco]

I feel terrible for Seba. Even though he had to know this was possible/probable.

[notthesun]

I didn't think he was going to make it, but to not even make the preliminary squad is a joke. Eder and Immobile ahead of him is ridiculous.

I guess this kills the dumb Giovinco to Chelsea rumours though.

[Bardown Snipes]

I'm curious to see if this will demoralize Gio's play moving forward or rather he will feed off the frustration of not being selected and use that energy to be even more productive in MLS. I have to say though, I am surprised Pirlo and Gio both were not selected for Italy's team.

[reggie]

he will be fine...he will go to the raps tonight and continue to enjoy our toronto lifestyle.

[Discostu81]

he will be fine...he will go to the raps tonight and continue to enjoy our toronto lifestyle.

Yeah, he's not Defoe.

[Richard]

Wasn't Giovinco an after thought for the national team when he was with Juventus? I see how he should have a place on this team but its not like he was a regular, his best move is to stay and continue to play well otherwise he wont get starting minutes unless its at a mid table club.

If there is one club I'm worried that could attract him its Leicester, I think he would fit perfectly into that team. They could pay him, start him every game, and could offer champions league.

[Yohan]

Wasn't Giovinco an after thought for the national team when he was with Juventus? I see how he should have a place on this team but its not like he was a regular, his best move is to stay and continue to play well otherwise he wont get starting minutes unless its at a mid table club.
23 caps to date

[jloome]

23 caps to date

I agree with your earlier assessment; he's trying to force everything. He literally looks distracted or irritated out there. I think maybe Conte didn't pick either him or Pirlo because neither is playing at their best. It's hard to see that in MLS, but that's because Seba could break three toes on each foot and still be the best player on the field.

[SoccMan2]

It's not totally based on MLS, I think Conte feels that he has a few players that are like Giovinco and Insigne who had a good season with Naploi was the player that Giovinco was competing with, Insigne is more or less the same height as Giovinco and more or less the same build , the same type of speed and pace with Insigne probably being a bit more craftier than Giovinco.

[notthesun]

Giovinco always looks irritated when he doesn't score. I haven't really noticed anything different, and I doubt we're talking about him trying too hard if he did score last game.

[69Chevy396]

I agree with your earlier assessment; he's trying to force everything. He literally looks distracted or irritated out there. I think maybe Conte didn't pick either him or Pirlo because neither is playing at their best. It's hard to see that in MLS, but that's because Seba could break three toes on each foot and still be the best player on the field.
It is also possible that Giovinco's play has been affected because he knew he was not going to the Euros for some time now, and that there may have been a backdoor agreement with MLSE to keep him in Toronto.

[OgtheDim]

Soooooo many egos involved in all this, including reporters.

[TFC1154ever]

hahahaha Conte. What a fucken idiot. Can't wait till he gets canned from Chelsea before February. He not a coach. He's a motivator. Terrible, terrible tactician. Brings 3 guys that literally bring nothing to the team. Italy are in for rough 2 years, especially with Spain in their World Cup Qualifying group. Hasn't proven anything with Juve and gets the national team job. Going to be a rough tournament for them.

[Hamilton_Red]

That's big boost for TFC in the short term. Gio can rub Conte's nose in it while he is banging in goals over the next 6 weeks. We would have been in deep trouble with him gone.

Don't even think about getting respect from the "elite" Euro leagues. Won't happen in our lifetime...but who cares really? It won't register unless the US wins the big one... or we start actually paying similar wages. TFC spends about 1/40th the money on players that Man Utd do.

[James17930]

This makes me scared.

[General Woolfe]

Great news! Absolutely fabulous! The thought of TFC going without both Bradley and Séba was a scary one. Hopefully this news will give us the boost we need to get out of this slump. I guess hoping for a quicker than anticipated return for Jozy would be greedy, huh?

[TFC Tifoso]

to me, Giovinco making the final 23 was just about 50/50, but I'm really surprised he didn't make the first 30.....though a couple things to remember...
- its a short tournament, and familiarity is an advantage (players who are in the same league), especially with this Azzurri team in transition and trying to find the next generation of players
- Italy traditionally picks players from within Serie A (going back to the days where Vialli and Zola types would miss out because they were playing outside of Italy)

unfortunate for him to be missing out on the Euros, but great news for TFC!......but I think it has less to do with MLS, and more about the fact that Italy almost always chooses players from Serie A.....Giovinco had to have known this before leaving to come here.....

[JDMD]

Interesting article with some of Conte's comments about Giovinco and Pirlo:
http://www.football-italia.net/84852/conte-%E2%80%98i-spoke-pirlo%E2%80%99

"We evaluated him and Giovinco, it’s normal that if you choose to go and play there then you can pay the consequences in footballing terms. We evaluated them technically, we didn’t leave anything to chance. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong, we went everywhere to have clear and precise ideas. I picked the 30 who I think will give me the most guarantees.”

[oldtraffordPEI]

Interesting article with some of Conte's comments about Giovinco and Pirlo:
http://www.football-italia.net/84852/conte-%E2%80%98i-spoke-pirlo%E2%80%99

"We evaluated him and Giovinco, it’s normal that if you choose to go and play there then you can pay the consequences in footballing terms. We evaluated them technically, we didn’t leave anything to chance. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong, we went everywhere to have clear and precise ideas. I picked the 30 who I think will give me the most guarantees.”

What a slap in the face to the MLS. This is not good for anybody. Obviously we pale in comparison to European leagues, and this is just another reminder that the rest of the world doesn't take MLS seriously. Seems like a dick move by Conte saying it to the media.

[TFC Tifoso]

The message is pretty clear. No names in Serie A have a better chance of making the Italy squad for a major tourney than dominating a league like MLS.

asking genuinely here, but how much of Serie A do you watch? Reason I'm asking is that I don't find any "no-names" on this preliminary team and I watch Serie A more or less weekly.....

I also wonder how much TFC fans knew of Giovinco before his move here.....had he come from Verona say instead of Juventus, I think at the time, he would've been called a "no-name" too......

As someone who has followed the Azzurri for as long as I've watched soccer, I can honestly say this is not an MLS-specific snub.....Italy has traditionally picked players from Serie A.....I'm even surprised that 5 got named to camp....we'll see how many even make the team.....

[Yohan]

asking genuinely here, but how much of Serie A do you watch? Reason I'm asking is that I don't find any "no-names" on this preliminary team and I watch Serie A more or less weekly.....

I also wonder how much TFC fans knew of Giovinco before his move here.....had he come from Verona say instead of Juventus, I think at the time, he would've been called a "no-name" too......

As someone who has followed the Azzurri for as long as I've watched soccer, I can honestly say this is not an MLS-specific snub.....Italy has traditionally picked players from Serie A.....I'm even surprised that 5 got named to camp....we'll see how many even make the team.....
The no name thing was more a tongue in cheek frustration comment.

I don't follow Serie A too seriously, but I seriously don't think guys like Sturaro, Bernardeschi, Jorginho or Eder who's shitting the bed at Inter deserves a spot over Giovinco

[TFC Tifoso]

The no name thing was more a tongue in cheek frustration comment.

I don't follow Serie A too seriously, but I seriously don't think guys like Sturaro, Bernardeschi, Jorginho or Eder who's shitting the bed at Inter deserves a spot over Giovinco

Ok fair enough.....

I guess what some guys don't get just looking at things for face value is that some of the guys you just mentioned are part of the group that will feature for Italy over the next 3 or 4 tournaments.....they're young now and need the experience in an Int'l tournament, or need to prove whether or not they can hack it at that level....as opposed to a guy like Giovinco, who is late 20's and its know what he offers to the team....

for example, Sturaro is a very highly touted midfielder within Italy, and played a great role (mostly off the bench) for Juve, similar to what he will be asked to do for Italy.....he also started the CL final last year vs Barca, so there's definitely something there.....but at a glance, and to someone who doesn't follow Serie A that seriously, they couldn't tell.....similar with Jorginho.....

I'm a bit surprised Seba couldn't make the 30 man team, but definitely not shocked.....some of the players that are making this team will be asked to show what they're made of in preparation for WC 2018.....and Giovinco isn't in that category....

[OgtheDim]

Just going to put these by Ricio out there for some perspective (apologies cause these don't nest well)

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/735120793630179328


https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/735121099197816833

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/735124092680949760

https://twitter.com/DanRiccio590/status/735124356351680513

[notthesun]

Those comments prove Giovinco was never seriously considered from the moment he left Italy. His call up for the qualifiers vs. Azerbaijan and Norway wasn't for Conte to have a look, it was a "let's get this over with". He played well and basically won them the Norway game, then never gets another call up.

It's old school thinking. And Italy has always had a particularly strong bias for players playing in their domestic league. Their loss.

[Yohan]

Ok fair enough.....

I guess what some guys don't get just looking at things for face value is that some of the guys you just mentioned are part of the group that will feature for Italy over the next 3 or 4 tournaments.....they're young now and need the experience in an Int'l tournament, or need to prove whether or not they can hack it at that level....as opposed to a guy like Giovinco, who is late 20's and its know what he offers to the team....

for example, Sturaro is a very highly touted midfielder within Italy, and played a great role (mostly off the bench) for Juve, similar to what he will be asked to do for Italy.....he also started the CL final last year vs Barca, so there's definitely something there.....but at a glance, and to someone who doesn't follow Serie A that seriously, they couldn't tell.....similar with Jorginho.....

I'm a bit surprised Seba couldn't make the 30 man team, but definitely not shocked.....some of the players that are making this team will be asked to show what they're made of in preparation for WC 2018.....and Giovinco isn't in that category....

You don't take youngsters to a major tourney unless you already know how good they are for the national team. That's what friendlies and qualifier games are for. It's too late just couple of weeks before the tourney starts to look at youngsters who you don't quite know how good they are for the senior national team.

Giovinco will be 32 in 2018. Hardly the age to exclude him, though likely his last chance at playing for a major tourney.

If you're a soccer player and you don't want to play in WC or a major tourney for your country, why are you playing soccer...

[OgtheDim]

Those comments prove Giovinco was never seriously considered from the moment he left Italy.

ACTUALLY, they just prove Conte has...ahem....differing opinions depending upon his moods.

https://twitter.com/KHeneage/status/735108358705930241

[Yohan]

Those comments prove Giovinco was never seriously considered from the moment he left Italy. His call up for the qualifiers vs. Azerbaijan and Norway wasn't for Conte to have a look, it was a "let's get this over with". He played well and basically won them the Norway game, then never gets another call up.

It's old school thinking. And Italy has always had a particularly strong bias for players playing in their domestic league. Their loss.
So, if Giovinco wants a shot at WC 2018, he'll ask for a transfer back to Europe.
If he's content with making big bucks and playing in MLS, he'll stay and basically retire from national team.

[OgtheDim]

So, if Giovinco wants a shot at WC 2018, he'll ask for a transfer back to Europe.
If he's content with making big bucks and playing in MLS, he'll stay and basically retire from national team.

Conte is gone after this tournament.

More likely Seba will wait to see who takes over.

[Red CB Toronto]

Hey The MLS is our league and I love being at BMO Field week in, week out during the season. Having attended games at a few of the world's biggest club's home stadiums I would be be silly to say the MLS is a top flight league but that matters dick all to me, TFC is my team and the Red bleeds from my heart. I am sure Seba is disappointed by not being selected but I hope this feeds him even more to score at the rate he has been with the Reds and not put him in a funk. To be honest I really do not have the knowledge or insight into Italian football to truely have a feel for Conte's decsion. #COYR

[reggie]

well said.its our team and our league and i love it and it will get better.
btw Italy lost to a concacaf team Costa Rica in the last world cup.not exactly world beaters lately.

[TFC Tifoso]

You don't take youngsters to a major tourney unless you already know how good they are for the national team. That's what friendlies and qualifier games are for. It's too late just couple of weeks before the tourney starts to look at youngsters who you don't quite know how good they are for the senior national team.

Giovinco will be 32 in 2018. Hardly the age to exclude him, though likely his last chance at playing for a major tourney.

If you're a soccer player and you don't want to play in WC or a major tourney for your country, why are you playing soccer...

Just looking at the mids and forwards from the preliminary 30, there are 7 players who have literally never played a minute for Italy in a major tournament (or 8....can't remember off the top of my head of Bonaventura was on the WC 14 team).....and imo, yes you don't know what they have to offer as an international....friendlies v Azerbaijan don't count to me.....had it been the case, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation about Giovinco now.....

Euro Cup has been a trophy that Italy doesn't get too up in arms about either way.....they are proud when the team does well in the tourney, but doesn't go crazy if the don't.....in Italy its all about the World Cup......and that will be Giovinco's last chance....

It has little to do with players WANTING to represent Italy or not......as I mentioned in an earlier post it's a team in transition with A LOT of new faces, so its more of a case of who can take over from the old guard (De Rossi, Montolivo, etc....guys who are/were set in stone players and are getting past it now)....


So, if Giovinco wants a shot at WC 2018, he'll ask for a transfer back to Europe.
If he's content with making big bucks and playing in MLS, he'll stay and basically retire from national team.

not necessarily the case.....


Conte is gone after this tournament.

More likely Seba will wait to see who takes over.

this is closer to the way it will play out I feel.....

[Yohan]

Conte is gone after this tournament.

More likely Seba will wait to see who takes over.
I can't see another Italian manager going to look at players outside of Europe.

[OgtheDim]

FWIW,

Seba was supposed to be available to the media today but there was no translator; he will speak to the media tomorrow.

[Yohan]

FWIW,

Seba was supposed to be available to the media today but there was no translator; he will speak to the media tomorrow.
I trust at least one of the media will ask the hard question... if all fails, there's always Totera lol

[OgtheDim]

I trust at least one of the media will ask the hard question... if all fails, there's always Totera lol

Totera will already have contacted Seba's agent by now and have an exclusive interview lined up for later this week - seeing as he had him on last week.

[jloome]

Totera will already have contacted Seba's agent by now and have an exclusive interview lined up for later this week - seeing as he had him on last week.

http://www.football-italia.net/84852/conte-%E2%80%98i-spoke-pirlo%E2%80%99

Conte says in this article that playing in a lower league has consequences on skill level, basically.

[TFC Tifoso]

http://www.football-italia.net/84852/conte-%E2%80%98i-spoke-pirlo%E2%80%99

Conte says in this article that playing in a lower league has consequences on skill level, basically.

I'd say that's some BS......based on the comments he made around the time Giovinco was coming to TFC, its becoming clearer that Conte really just says what happens to come into his head on that particular day....thinking more about it, Giovinco was even down the pecking order at Juve when him and Conte were both there.....regardless of the fact that the Azzurri is a team that should be introducing some new players for this tourney, perhaps there's other issues between them also.....

[OgtheDim]

Oso knows his pain?

[TFC Tifoso]

Oso knows his pain?

lol...maybe.....I mean reading the wording of the article (even though I hate to draw conclusions from these types of things), Conte mentions about "speaking to Andrea" about it, but nothing about Giovinco....or even to say "I spoke to Andrea and Sebastian blah blah blah".....

[Hamilton_Red]

Conte is doing Hio a favour in the end. Making the last spot on a 23 roster means your are going to have a great view of the games. You might not even be dressed. That would have really sucked to miss Gio and then watch him sit as sub for the whole Euro period. Conte is as likely to have thought once he is down to his final subs..might as well take someone who is not missing anything than GIo who is playing competitive games.

[ronzilla]

I suspect the original plan was to call Giovinco and leave Pirlo behind, although theyy didn't want to insult/offend
Pirlo, so they played the " No MLS allowed" card and left them both off. This was probably aa last minute decision from Conte
who could find no other solution.

[Ivy]

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/team/italy/162/blog/post/2879583/italys-andrea-pirlo-and-sebastian-giovinco-omissions-not-surprising

Good article.

[Onyx]

http://www.football-italia.net/84852/conte-%E2%80%98i-spoke-pirlo%E2%80%99

Conte says in this article that playing in a lower league has consequences on skill level, basically.


yeah, same. i took it as IMNT views MLS is county level soccer and your not in top shape playing that competition

[Hamilton_Red]

The MLS has to establish a proper club competition and play against top European teams with some frequency in real competitive matches. The first step is to start dominating the CONCACaF tournament. Then bring in the South American teams for an all America competitor to the Chamions League. That level of ambition is what it will take.

[ensco]

In the early days of TFC, I used to write all kinds of posts about how MLS could take on the big Euro leagues if it had the right vision and was willing to spend.

Our Leiweke experiment changed my view of that. Our domestic market just isn't ready. When Toronto vs Seattle, with 40M in payroll, drew a total of 600K in North America for Defoe's debut two years ago (which is a quarter of what a random EPL game gets), that tells you that people just aren't buying the improvement of the product.

MLS' problem isn't the growth of the game, that's happening. It's that most of that growth is accruing to the big Euro leagues on TV.

[Fort York Redcoat]

In the early days of TFC, I used to write all kinds of posts about how MLS could take on the big Euro leagues if it had the right vision and was willing to spend.

Our Leiweke experiment changed my view of that. Our domestic market just isn't ready. When Toronto vs Seattle, with 40M in payroll, drew a total of 600K in North America for Defoe's debut two years ago (which is a quarter of what a random EPL game gets), that tells you that people just aren't buying the improvement of the product.

MLS' problem isn't the growth of the game, that's happening. It's that most of that growth is accruing to the big Euro leagues on TV.

Quality isn't even the endgame. Of course we need the top quality to woo NA sports fans but it's the appearance of the league after it equals others. We'll never have the storied nostalgia that's elsewhere but look how fickle NA sports fans are with the accepted best of the sports here. They tune in for playoffs of 4 or 5 sports never committing to a season. Watching foreign games every so often is the NA equivalent to playoffs until MLS is considered top 4 or even best in the world.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The MLS has to establish a proper club competition and play against top European teams with some frequency in real competitive matches. The first step is to start dominating the CONCACaF tournament. Then bring in the South American teams for an all America competitor to the Chamions League. That level of ambition is what it will take.

What's "proper"?

And where would we fit the America's playoffs in the already packed CCL schedule? What you're proposing would mean teams here would have to outspend Mexico to win CCL and then adding a step to face elimination BEFORE they get to compete in the Club World Cup? Why?

[JohnnyEnglish]

http://www.football-italia.net/84852/conte-%E2%80%98i-spoke-pirlo%E2%80%99

Conte says in this article that playing in a lower league has consequences on skill level, basically.

Unfortunately that is the case. Your skill level directly correlates to what is around you. There's a case for Gio to be picked ahead of Zaza, Eder and Immobile, based on performance and numbers. Let's be realistic though, most Serie A strikers would come over and score considerably more than they do in their domestic league, so it's a bit of a false economy.

Pirlo rightly was nowhere near the squad. He isn't at that level anymore and wouldn't even make a 40 man roster. That has nothing to do with him playing in the MLS.

Still, a blow for Gio. I don't think it will effect his performance here, or his desire to stay. It's hard to imagine that he thought playing in this league would do anything at all to enhance his chances of playing for his country. if anything, when he came over he was further down the pecking order.

[Areathrasher]

In the early days of TFC, I used to write all kinds of posts about how MLS could take on the big Euro leagues if it had the right vision and was willing to spend.

Our Leiweke experiment changed my view of that. Our domestic market just isn't ready. When Toronto vs Seattle, with 40M in payroll, drew a total of 600K in North America for Defoe's debut two years ago (which is a quarter of what a random EPL game gets), that tells you that people just aren't buying the improvement of the product.

MLS' problem isn't the growth of the game, that's happening. It's that most of that growth is accruing to the big Euro leagues on TV.

That's way off. Liga MX pulls in close to 2.4m viewers for the big derbys but not the EPL.

Most-Watched Live Premier League Matches in U.S. History
NBC Sports Group has televised 12 of the 15 most-watched live Premier League matches in U.S. television history, including four this past season. The top 15:


Date
Match
Network
Viewers


11/22/14
Arsenal-Man United
NBC
1.41 million


2/5/12
Chelsea-Man United
FOX
1.38 million


1/31/15
Chelsea-Man City
NBC
1.35 million


10/26/14
Man United-Chelsea
NBC
1.29 million


1/22/12
Man United-Arsenal
FOX
1.26 million


9/12/15
Man United-Liverpool
NBC
1.25 million


2/8/14
Cardiff-Swansea City
NBC
1.24 million


1/23/16
West Ham-Man City
NBC
1.16 million


3/20/16
Man City-Man United
NBC
1.16 million


10/24/15
Arsenal-Everton
NBC
1.15 million


4/12/15
Man United-Man City
NBCSN
1.13 million


1/11/14
Man United-Swansea City
NBC
1.10 million


11/7/15
Stoke City-Chelsea
NBC
1.07 million


2/22/14
Crystal Palace-Man United
NBC
1.06 million


4/30/12
Man City-Man United
ESPN
1.03 million





NBC Sports Group averaged 514,000 viewers per match window – up 7% from last season’s average (479,000). Last season’s figure was up 9% from the then-record average in NBC Sports Group’s debut Premier League season (438,000 in 2013-14)
http://nbcsportsgrouppressbox.com/2016/05/18/nbc-sports-group-sets-viewership-live-streaming-records-for-third-consecutive-premier-league-season/

[JohnnyEnglish]

That's way off. Liga MX pulls in close to 2.4m viewers for the big derbys but not the EPL.



The 2.4M was a complete 1 off, and ended up with a bigger TV audience than all the NHL Playoffs too. MX's average is lower than the EPL and MLS.

[Areathrasher]

The 2.4M was a complete 1 off, and ended up with a bigger TV audience than all the NHL Playoffs too. MX's average is lower than the EPL and MLS.

Chivas v America regularly draws massive viewers.
2016

The first leg of the Liga MX playoff between Chivas and Club América last Thursday was the most-viewed club soccer match in US cable history.
The match was televised live on Univision Deportes to an audience of 1.4 million total viewers. The 0-0 draw was also delivered the most streams and minutes watched of any Liga MX game in Univision history, for the regular season or playoffs.
The second leg, which Club América won 2-1 against Chivas, was watched by 2.7 million total viewers on Sunday night, which aired on Univision and was simulcast on Univision Deportes. The viewership was the best for any Liga MX playoff match since the 2014 Apertura Final on Univision.

2015



The El Súper Clásico match on Univision Network, with Chivas de la Guadalajara vs. Club América, delivered an average audience of 3.0 million Total Viewers 2+, 1.7 million Adults 18-49 and 862,000 young Adults 18-34 on April 26, the most-viewed regular season club soccer match in the U.S. in over 5 years.


2014



On Sunday, March 30, El Súper Clásico match on Univision Networks reached 4.1 million Total Viewers, making it the most-viewed club soccer match on any network in 2014.



Liga MX averages more viewers than EPL and MLS


The English Premier League is the most-watched sports league in the world. But in the U.S., it isn't even the most-viewed soccer league.
Mexico's Liga MX is averaging more than 1.1 million viewers on the Univision-owned UniMas Spanish-language network, an audience 19% larger than NBC averages for its weekly EPL telecasts. And that's a success built largely on time and loyalty, two advantages Univision's Mexican soccer coverage has over NBC and the EPL.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccer-baxter-20160501-story.html

[JohnnyEnglish]

My point was more that it's a one off game, as opposed to consistent viewing figures. EPL figures in north america went up 25% this season, the largest growth of any market. Infact, on march 5th, NBC pulled in 13.8m viewers over it's 8 broadcasted games.

The relevance to TFC, and the topic of international football though is apparent. MLS has very little market share over in Europe. (Although i'm in England at the moment and have caught a few games on). Until that increases, it's always going to be harder for foreign players to make their national teams. The first step though, as the English and Mexican leagues figures show, is to dominate the marketshare % in North America.

[OgtheDim]

Seba talking to the media today.


Edit: Aaaa missed Molinaro was there.

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/735511851866427393


&


https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/735513032814645248

[ensco]

I got the raw numbers wrong but the ratios right. EPL outdraws MLS by a lot.

http://www.lagconfidential.com/2015/11/10/9705858/mls-tv-ratings-are-in-for-2015

MLS just doesn't draw on TV, and adding payroll hasn't moved the needle.

[Yohan]

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/05/25/pirlo-giovincos-exclusions-italy-squad-not-indictment-mls/

[ManUtd4ever]

This has everything to do with the history between Giovinco and Conte and little to do with the quality of MLS.

[GuelphStorm2007]

The MLS has to establish a proper club competition and play against top European teams with some frequency in real competitive matches. The first step is to start dominating the CONCACaF tournament. Then bring in the South American teams for an all America competitor to the Chamions League. That level of ambition is what it will take.
Amen I agree/

[JohnnyEnglish]

This has everything to do with the history between Giovinco and Conte and little to do with the quality of MLS.

If Giovinco scored 22 goals with 16 assists in any of Europe's top 5 leagues he would be the first name on the teamsheet. It has everything to do with the quality he plays against.

[GuelphStorm2007]

MLS is still a young leAGUE and also unproven globally.

[Bobo]

You don't take youngsters to a major tourney unless you already know how good they are for the national team. That's what friendlies and qualifier games are for. It's too late just couple of weeks before the tourney starts to look at youngsters who you don't quite know how good they are for the senior national team.

IMO the Euros are just practice for the real show. There aren't many people who can name the last 5 champions. Hence, I like the idea of bringing kids but I agree that there should be some sort of continuity. Conte has never had a set formation or group of players. Late injuries to their only two world class midfielders (Marchisio and Verratti) doesn't help.

(BTW, Jorginho was a revelation this past season and is in some outlets' Serie A TOTY)

[Yohan]

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2880306/toronto-fcs-sebastian-giovinco-vows-to-earn-his-way-back-to-italy-squad

[OgtheDim]

If Giovinco scored 22 goals with 16 assists in any of Europe's top 5 leagues he would be the first name on the teamsheet. ...

Don't think that's it.

Pavoletti got 14 for Genoa and he's a bigger head scratch the pundits are saying.


Anyways, Molinaro has an article out now on today's talk. (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/sebastian-giovinco-tfc-toronto-fc-mls-major-league-soccer-euro-italy-antonio-conte/)

In that we find this interesting statement.


"As long as I continue to have fun I’m going to keep playing in the league,” Giovinco stated.

[notthesun]

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/05/25/ive-said-league-continuing-grow-and-its-beautiful-league-sebastian-giovinco

Full Giovinco media scrum here.

[burlington Red]

I don't follow Italian football at all, but I found this surprising in Molinaro's piece:

"But the reality is that for all of the passionate outcry in Toronto and around MLS about Conte snubbing Giovinco, it hasn’t registered one bit back in Italy."
"But Giovinco’s absence? Italian fans and reporters have hardly taken notice, if at all."

[Detroit_TFC]

I was angry about the snub but now I'm glad he's not going. Likely to be a shitshow for Italy and probably good thing Seba isn't part of it.

[Ivy]

I don't follow Italian football at all, but I found this surprising in Molinaro's piece:

"But the reality is that for all of the passionate outcry in Toronto and around MLS about Conte snubbing Giovinco, it hasn’t registered one bit back in Italy."
"But Giovinco’s absence? Italian fans and reporters have hardly taken notice, if at all."



They're more upset about how the leading Italian scorer in Serie A wasnt called up.

[troy1982]

I wasn't interested in the Euro's before, but with this news, I am more interested than ever in seeing Italy crash out.

[trane]

I am not sure what Molinaro reads, but I read the Gazzetta dello Sport every day, and yes there has not been any rioting but there has been many questions particularly in the comments section of articles about Giovinco not being convoked. Many are hope that he may be convoked yet.

[trane]

I wasn't interested in the Euro's before, but with this news, I am more interested than ever in seeing Italy crash out.

Please, do not start this. I hear that there are some passionate Italian supporters on this board that may start arguing with you.

[Bobo]

I am not sure what Molinaro reads, but I read the Gazzetta dello Sport every day, and yes there has not been any rioting but there has been many questions particularly in the comments section of articles about Giovinco not being convoked. Many are hope that he may be convoked yet.

I write for Gazzetta World (GdS' English satellite site) and I've noticed that GdS doesn't seem overly concernef about the quality on the NT, which for an Italian publication is surprising since outlets always find something to complain about. The concern up front is obvious but there are some young players that I'm excited to see given a chance to showcase their capabilities. Also, people who write them off seem to forget that the BBC form arguably the best backline on the international scene.

While I was convinced that Seba had a place on the preliminary roster, I suppose I can understand not calling him with Insigne on the squad. (similar player but undoubtedly the better option at rhis point and who may already start from the bench) At this point I'm more upset with Pavoletti and Acerbi being shunned in favour of Immobile and Astori/Ogbonna. Conte clearly doesn't put much stock into form, which is clearly a mistake given the nature of the tournament.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I wasn't interested in the Euro's before, but with this news, I am more interested than ever in seeing Italy crash out.


Please, do not start this. I hear that there are some passionate Italian supporters on this board that may start arguing with you.

Yes. Please wait for the Euro thread to open and then don't bother starting this anyway.

Thanks

:)

[Red CB Toronto]

I was angry about the snub but now I'm glad he's not going. Likely to be a shitshow for Italy and probably good thing Seba isn't part of it.

Nothing could be worse than the crap France had to deal with at the 2010 World Cup. But yeah if its turns into a mess for the Azzurri it likely is a good thing he is nowhere near it. But in reality he should have made the team, to not even be in the 30 makes no sense.

[trane]

I write for Gazzetta World (GdS' English satellite site) and I've noticed that GdS doesn't seem overly concernef about the quality on the NT, which for an Italian publication is surprising since outlets always find something to complain about. The concern up front is obvious but there are some young players that I'm excited to see given a chance to showcase their capabilities. Also, people who write them off seem to forget that the BBC form arguably the best backline on the international scene.

While I was convinced that Seba had a place on the preliminary roster, I suppose I can understand not calling him with Insigne on the squad. (similar player but undoubtedly the better option at rhis point and who may already start from the bench) At this point I'm more upset with Pavoletti and Acerbi being shunned in favour of Immobile and Astori/Ogbonna. Conte clearly doesn't put much stock into form, which is clearly a mistake given the nature of the tournament.

I am concerned about us upfront there is no one that I truly think is worth of the Azzurri 9 or 10 shirts. I Insigne and Seba are similar, but I see Seba more of a true 10. It may be because I have not seen Insigne as much as Giovinco.

On a side note Ogbonna, Astori and Acerbi were the future great Italian CBs, all of them did well, but none of them reached the heights I thought they would. I am not sure that happened to Ogbonna at Juve ( I which we (Milan) got him instead of Matri), I do not think Acerbi got a fair shot at Milan ( before his health problems), and Astori stayed on Cagliari to long, he should have moved to a bigger squad earlier. I still think that the three of them would make a top back line (3-5-2).

[ronzilla]

Knowing that playing in MLS will have you excluded from NT, I think Seba will be gone sooner than later, as he already mentioned that he will still work hard to make the NT. 1 more year max and he's gone.

[Bobo]

I am concerned about us upfront there is no one that I truly think is worth of the Azzurri 9 or 10 shirts. I Insigne and Seba are similar, but I see Seba more of a true 10. It may be because I have not seen Insigne as much as Giovinco.



Yes, Seba is definitely more of a no.10 / 2nd striker. Insigne spent all of last season on the wing. But given that Conte seems set on switching back to a 3-5-2, it would appear that he is fine with having Insigne fill the role. (assuming he makes the final cut)

[OgtheDim]

Totera not happy

Worth watching just for the outrage and sputter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QPPwKdUtwo

[RedsYNWA]

Love it... can't agree more. That squad must be the poorest Italian side since the 1960's

He is already thinking about Chelsea

[Hamilton_Red]

Well - that's quite interesting. Liga MX get's about 30% more viewers per game than the EPL in the USA! That's almost 4x the viewership of the MLS. Who would have thunk?
That's what I would be focussing on for MLS. How do you harness that audience better? How about offering some MLS franchises into Liga MX...or even a merger? With a Div 1 and Div 2?







I got the raw numbers wrong but the ratios right. EPL outdraws MLS by a lot.

http://www.lagconfidential.com/2015/11/10/9705858/mls-tv-ratings-are-in-for-2015

MLS just doesn't draw on TV, and adding payroll hasn't moved the needle.

[janesill]

Good thing my top choices are Germany and France. :)

[mistercorporate]

Well - that's quite interesting. Liga MX get's about 30% more viewers per game than the EPL in the USA! That's almost 4x the viewership of the MLS. Who would have thunk?
That's what I would be focussing on for MLS. How do you harness that audience better? How about offering some MLS franchises into Liga MX...or even a merger? With a Div 1 and Div 2?

That's such a money idea! 2 Mexican franchises (e.g. Mexico City and Monterrey) would be awesome and build serious viewership for all MLS games among their diaspora!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I got the raw numbers wrong but the ratios right. EPL outdraws MLS by a lot.

http://www.lagconfidential.com/2015/11/10/9705858/mls-tv-ratings-are-in-for-2015

MLS just doesn't draw on TV, and adding payroll hasn't moved the needle.

The needle won't move until it's equal pay and MLS is consistently beating LigaMX teams. I don't worry about the comparisons. The grow is way slower than our year after year comparisons.


Well - that's quite interesting. Liga MX get's about 30% more viewers per game than the EPL in the USA! That's almost 4x the viewership of the MLS. Who would have thunk?
That's what I would be focussing on for MLS. How do you harness that audience better? How about offering some MLS franchises into Liga MX...or even a merger? With a Div 1 and Div 2?

Why do you think any Mexican would want to watch an inferior foreign league on their home soil?

[ensco]

You'll see a Mexican team in the NFL long before you see an MLS team in Mexico.

[Alonso]

The MLS has to establish a proper club competition and play against top European teams with some frequency in real competitive matches. The first step is to start dominating the CONCACaF tournament. Then bring in the South American teams for an all America competitor to the Chamions League. That level of ambition is what it will take.


Yeah, absolutely.

But for that MLS would need squad depth and a salary cap in the tens of millions, not three million.

MLS club's have a very poor record against Liga MX.

I very badly want TFC to be the first MLS club to win the CCL. That would be a proper corner stone to build a football legacy from.

[Onyx]

That's such a money idea! 2 Mexican franchises (e.g. Mexico City and Monterrey) would be awesome and build serious viewership for all MLS games among their diaspora!

thats like the swiss hockey league div 2 setting up a team in toronto.
They are going to draw flies.

Those cities have lots and lots of futbol to watch and teams with very established fanbases.

[Hamilton_Red]

I think the merger idea would be the best - bring those established franchises in. It would be awesome.

[OgtheDim]

Liga MX has more money then MLS. And arguably more viewers in the US then MLS.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think the merger idea would be the best - bring those established franchises in. It would be awesome.

Like Chivas...?

Anyway, No Euro for Seba especially now :(

[moralis]

Giovinco: 'I'd choose Toronto again'

http://www.football-italia.net/85112/giovinco-id-choose-toronto-again

[TFC Tifoso]

interesting little tidbit from today's Sun that maybe Larson can give more info on.....apparently both Pirlo and Giovinco declined call ups to Italy's camp in favour of staying with their respective teams, prior to the preliminary 30 being named....could've had something to do with the both of them being left off....

[PopePouri]

After reading this, I can understand why Conte didn't take Seba. While crazy talented, he's a luxury player who hampers coaches tactically.

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/the-match/60/post/2892423/antonio-conte-tactics-too-good-as-italy-beat-belgium-at-euro-2016

[C.Ronaldo]

After reading this, I can understand why Conte didn't take Seba. While crazy talented, he's a luxury player who hampers coaches tactically.

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/the-match/60/post/2892423/antonio-conte-tactics-too-good-as-italy-beat-belgium-at-euro-2016

meh, Belgium should have been able to adjust but got out coached

you still want Gio on the bench as a game changer if you go down a goal or two

[vortexdr]

Well - that's quite interesting. Liga MX get's about 30% more viewers per game than the EPL in the USA! That's almost 4x the viewership of the MLS. Who would have thunk?
That's what I would be focussing on for MLS. How do you harness that audience better? How about offering some MLS franchises into Liga MX...or even a merger? With a Div 1 and Div 2?

Must be cause of all the illegal Mexican immigrants in the states....surely doesn't have anything to do with the quality of football on display.

[vortexdr]

meh, Belgium should have been able to adjust but got out coached

you still want Gio on the bench as a game changer if you go down a goal or two

This pretty much. Marc Wilmots is a scrub. The only reason he even has that job is because no top coach would want to work for Belgium and the pathetic salary they pay. Its a shame that their golden generation is being wasted due to the governing body in Belgium not wanting to pay for a top level coach.

[OgtheDim]

10.9% of the US is of Mexican heritage

[ag futbol]

Must be cause of all the illegal Mexican immigrants in the states....surely doesn't have anything to do with the quality of football on display.
Have you watched Liga MX? It's decent football. Nothing that can be dismissed on account of MLS.

[trane]

I still do not get it, I would take Giovinco over Giacherini in the 10 roles. Not that Giacherini did not do great in the first game. But Seba is a natural there, while Giacherini is more of a winger.

Anyway, forza Italia. Just keep on playing disciplined tactical calcio, if we go down at least we go down playing our game.

[Hamilton_Red]

I think we saw hint of why Gio would have at best been a bench warmer on that team. Very tuned defensive unit - very disciplined. Gio doesn't offer any defensive play at all. He doesn't do cattenacio.
Much prefer that he is here - than warming a bench in France.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Must be cause of all the illegal Mexican immigrants in the states....surely doesn't have anything to do with the quality of football on display.

And legal as below:


10.9% of the US is of Mexican heritage

Exactly. We don't expect Canadians with Italian heritage to stop following in here, why would we expect it of those with Mexican heritage to convert solely to MLS when there's is a border away and always on?


Have you watched Liga MX? It's decent football. Nothing that can be dismissed on account of MLS.

Certainly and when one throws in heritage and league history the contest in viewership for those of Mexican origin is pretty damn steep.

But i digress. Glad to have Seba vs Gerrard this weekend.

[TFC Tifoso]

I think we saw hint of why Gio would have at best been a bench warmer on that team. Very tuned defensive unit - very disciplined. Gio doesn't offer any defensive play at all. He doesn't do cattenacio.
Much prefer that he is here - than warming a bench in France.

Italy doesn't do catenaccio anymore either.....they'll never be mistaken for 1970's Holland, but Italy's back 3 + Buffon have been playing together for Juventus for the last 5 years now......at this point, their communication is pretty much telepathic.....could go a long way in a short tournament......they just know where the other defender will be all the time, and that's what makes them so organized....

[TFC Tifoso]

I still do not get it, I would take Giovinco over Giacherini in the 10 roles. Not that Giacherini did not do great in the first game. But Seba is a natural there, while Giacherini is more of a winger.

Anyway, forza Italia. Just keep on playing disciplined tactical calcio, if we go down at least we go down playing our game.

from the first game, it looked like Giakk was playing as a midfielder....do you think Seba would have it in him to be responsible enough when Italy doesn't have the ball??.....hard to say either way, but Giakk has been in tournaments before so you know what to get from him.....

[C.Ronaldo]

10.9% of the US is of Mexican heritage

including those in denial in Texas?

[C.Ronaldo]

I still do not get it, I would take Giovinco over Giacherini in the 10 roles. Not that Giacherini did not do great in the first game. But Seba is a natural there, while Giacherini is more of a winger.

Anyway, forza Italia. Just keep on playing disciplined tactical calcio, if we go down at least we go down playing our game.

no thanks, its a snooze to watch. I watch these tournaments to be entertained, I don't win anything except a few days of bragging rights if Portugal wins.

[Fort York Redcoat]

no thanks, its a snooze to watch. I watch these tournaments to be entertained, I don't win anything except a few days of bragging rights if Portugal wins.

Wow. I don't know where to go with the irony of this statement right now.

I guess your namesake was entertaining today??

Anyway, Italy isn't playing Portugal for a bit. If they meet at all...

[trane]

no thanks, its a snooze to watch. I watch these tournaments to be entertained, I don't win anything except a few days of bragging rights if Portugal wins.

I am not asking Portugal to play Italian style football, although if you had your best Manager take over you would. I watch to see quality football, quality football can be defensive or attacking. But as far as my home country goes, I want it to play its style of football, I do not care if others like it. I just hope it works and we win. We will see.

[trane]

Wow. I don't know where to go with the irony of this statement right now.

I guess your namesake was entertaining today??

Anyway, Italy isn't playing Portugal for a bit. If they meet at all...

I was going to comment on that as well, I never like when "big" sides who fail to get the results they think they deserve complain about the other side parking the bus. Each team chooses its tactics and you live and die by it, do blame the for your failure to have your tactics work. Plus what did Portugal expect a nation that has the population of London, Ontario to come out and attack Portugal all out. They did what they had to too, they did it well, and they got a good result. Good on them.

[C.Ronaldo]

Wow. I don't know where to go with the irony of this statement right now.

I guess your namesake was entertaining today??

Anyway, Italy isn't playing Portugal for a bit. If they meet at all...

no no, i meant as an impartial viewer of other groups or the euros as a whole.

I in no way think Portugal has much of chance, my $80M/ year alter ego needs to show up for that to happen.

I just expect the teams that have the ability to entertain, actually entertain. I loved the dutch in the last world cup.


You cant tell me anyone enjoys a 0-0 penalty shoot out.

[Bobo]

I still do not get it, I would take Giovinco over Giacherini in the 10 roles. Not that Giacherini did not do great in the first game. But Seba is a natural there, while Giacherini is more of a winger.


Giaccherini was man-marking De Bruyne for a good part of the match. (big block in the box at one point) Seba wouldn't be deployed at that CM position. With this setup its easy to see why Seba wasn't called. Insigne and El Shaarawy are "similar" players who already wont be seeing many minutes.


I think we saw hint of why Gio would have at best been a bench warmer on that team. Very tuned defensive unit - very disciplined. Gio doesn't offer any defensive play at all. He doesn't do cattenacio.

Italy haven't played catenaccio in decades. Don't mistake good defensive football for catenaccio.


no thanks, its a snooze to watch. I watch these tournaments to be entertained, I don't win anything except a few days of bragging rights if Portugal wins.

Not sure what you were watching but Italy v Belgium was the best game of Matchday 1.

[trane]

from the first game, it looked like Giakk was playing as a midfielder....do you think Seba would have it in him to be responsible enough when Italy doesn't have the ball??.....hard to say either way, but Giakk has been in tournaments before so you know what to get from him.....

You are right he was playing more like a CM, which Seba is not suited for. But generally Giakk does not play there either. However I agree Seba does not contribute much on defense.

[trane]

Giaccherini was man-marking De Bruyne for a good part of the match. (big block in the box at one point) Seba wouldn't be deployed at that CM position. With this setup its easy to see why Seba wasn't called. Insigne and El Shaarawy are "similar" players who already wont be seeing many minutes.



Italy haven't played catenaccio in decades. Don't mistake good defensive football for catenaccio.



Not sure what you were watching but Italy v Belgium was the best game of Matchday 1.

I heard the match in the car, did not watch portions till later. As I said to Tifoso, you are right Giak played like a pure CM something that Seba would not have done. But I disagree about El Sha and Insigne they are more wide players then 10s.

[C.Ronaldo]

Not sure what you were watching but Italy v Belgium was the best game of Matchday 1.

to each his own, for me its the Hungary game

[TFC Tifoso]

You are right he was playing more like a CM, which Seba is not suited for. But generally Giakk does not play there either. However I agree Seba does not contribute much on defense.

Giakk is a funny player in the sense that to me he doesn't really have any position and can play anywhere across the midfield except as a registra.....he is the type of player you want strictly to play as a match up to an opposing player....if I'm not mistaken Prandelli used him wide left in the 3-5-2 set up last Euro....now Conte has him left centre....nice player who to me does everything good, but nothing great.....Jack (or Giakk) of all Trades lol.....


I heard the match in the car, did not watch portions till later. As I said to Tifoso, you are right Giak played like a pure CM something that Seba would not have done. But I disagree about El Sha and Insigne they are more wide players then 10s.

yes I agree.....Insigne and SES are both best when used as wide forwards in a 3 forward set up.....I honestly though that was the way Conte was going to go, looking at the last couple of friendlies, but I personally like the 3-5-2 better for this team, especially with the Juve 3 at the back and any 2 of Darmian/Candreva/De Sciglio playing the wings.....

[trane]

^ I agree about Giakk. I love the way we are playing. This is the way I like football played.

I cannot really complain.

[TFC Tifoso]

^ I agree about Giakk. I love the way we are playing. This is the way I like football played.

I cannot really complain.

Yes I agree.....I didn't necessarily care whether Seba was named to the team or not....there were pros and cons to it on both a personal level for him and also from a TFC perspective....and I also didn't know what to expect from the team selection or Conte's tactics....I thought he might have been viewed by the team as a lame-duck coach with one foot already in Chelsea's door.....but the way they came out in game 1 was very impressive....a textbook team effort.....and from that it is very clear to see why Conte named the team that he did....hopefully they can keep this up.....

[Bobo]

But I disagree about El Sha and Insigne they are more wide players then 10s.

That's why I put "similar" in quotes. Conte has used Insigne as the 2nd ST and it seems he's content with having him deputize there if they need a little more dynamism. (which Conte doesn't seem to care much for) SES has been used there as well throughout his career, but yes, both are definitely better equipped at LW. Then again, Seba was used at LW more than 2nd ST throughout his time in Italy.

[trane]

^ At the end of the day this is probably why Conte did not bring Seba. I prefer El Sha and Insigne on the wings to Seba, whom is better in the middle of it as a treguartista.

I do not like El Sha inside, Insigne I have not seen enough, to rate his inside play. But none of them are a good fit as two way CMs. That must be why Conte went with Giak there.

[trane]

Yes I agree.....I didn't necessarily care whether Seba was named to the team or not....there were pros and cons to it on both a personal level for him and also from a TFC perspective....and I also didn't know what to expect from the team selection or Conte's tactics....I thought he might have been viewed by the team as a lame-duck coach with one foot already in Chelsea's door.....but the way they came out in game 1 was very impressive....a textbook team effort.....and from that it is very clear to see why Conte named the team that he did....hopefully they can keep this up.....

That was my feeling as well. Once I saw how they played It made sense.

[burlington Red]

Giaccherini was man-marking De Bruyne for a good part of the match. (big block in the box at one point) Seba wouldn't be deployed at that CM position. With this setup its easy to see why Seba wasn't called. Insigne and El Shaarawy are "similar" players who already wont be seeing many minutes.



Italy haven't played catenaccio in decades. Don't mistake good defensive football for catenaccio.



Not sure what you were watching but Italy v Belgium was the best game of Matchday 1.

if that was the case, today's game ie v Sweden was worst game in tournament so far. First half was woeful, 2nd half slightly better by virtue of nice goal.
Italy need to play teams who will come at them such as Belgium, but this poor Sweden team didn't and it just turned into a poor game.
Italy through and have the team to contain and hit on the counter any of the big teams in this tournament. But any game where they will be the team dominating possession such as today and probably be the same v Ireland, won't make for great viewing.

[trane]

Sweden played us better then Belgium, but we won.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3KZKrX9AnE

[TFC Tifoso]

if that was the case, today's game ie v Sweden was worst game in tournament so far. First half was woeful, 2nd half slightly better by virtue of nice goal.
Italy need to play teams who will come at them such as Belgium, but this poor Sweden team didn't and it just turned into a poor game.
Italy through and have the team to contain and hit on the counter any of the big teams in this tournament. But any game where they will be the team dominating possession such as today and probably be the same v Ireland, won't make for great viewing.

I'd say the worst game so far was Germany v Poland yesterday, but only because I'm sure absolutely everyone was expecting goals from that one, and there were barely any chances in it.....but this best/worst stuff is all subjective anyways.....

Italy was far from dominating possession today.....Sweden actually was about 60/40 in favour at the half.....it wasn't pretty for sure, but pretty don't get you points....

[TFC Tifoso]

Sweden played us better then Belgium, but we won.


yup.....and the last part is all that matters.....fortunately (I think anyways) Italian supports have never really cared for winning with style.....points are points, wins are wins....Azzurri teams have had style, but nobody who cheers for them is really bothered by to what extent that style is used.....this team admittedly has little style.....they will go as far as their fighting spirit and leaders take them....but the crest on the front of the shirt will always need to be respected by the other teams.....

[burlington Red]

I'd say the worst game so far was Germany v Poland yesterday, but only because I'm sure absolutely everyone was expecting goals from that one, and there were barely any chances in it.....but this best/worst stuff is all subjective anyways.....

Italy was far from dominating possession today.....Sweden actually was about 60/40 in favour at the half.....it wasn't pretty for sure, but pretty don't get you points....


I actually liked the Germany game yesterday, Poland missed 2 complete sitters but anyway as you say all relative.

I meant to add in my original post, that would have been a game Seba would have thrived in. Sticking Pelle up top is what Sweden and Ireland would prefer, a big target they can engage physically with. The small more nimble forwards cause these defenders all kinds of trouble.
Possession was pretty much 50-50 in general over the 90, but Italy only allowed them possession typically where they wanted them to have it ie areas that couldn't hurt them. So that's what I meant by dominating it, and it will be similiar scenario against the Irish also, sorry should have been clear in that regard.

Sweden team only touched the ball 5 times in Italy box over 90 mins.

[trane]

yup.....and the last part is all that matters.....fortunately (I think anyways) Italian supports have never really cared for winning with style.....points are points, wins are wins....Azzurri teams have had style, but nobody who cheers for them is really bothered by to what extent that style is used.....this team admittedly has little style.....they will go as far as their fighting spirit and leaders take them....but the crest on the front of the shirt will always need to be respected by the other teams.....

Yep, our football has been based on tactics, football iq, and fight. That is the football that I love. That is the football that I grew up with. When we play it we, do well.

[trane]

I actually liked the Germany game yesterday, Poland missed 2 complete sitters but anyway as you say all relative.

I meant to add in my original post, that would have been a game Seba would have thrived in. Sticking Pelle up top is what Sweden and Ireland would prefer, a big target they can engage physically with. The small more nimble forwards cause these defenders all kinds of trouble.
Possession was pretty much 50-50 in general over the 90, but Italy only allowed them possession typically where they wanted them to have it ie areas that couldn't hurt them. So that's what I meant by dominating it, and it will be similiar scenario against the Irish also, sorry should have been clear in that regard.

Sweden team only touched the ball 5 times in Italy box over 90 mins.

I agree with you about this would have been a game for Seba.

[TFC Tifoso]

I actually liked the Germany game yesterday, Poland missed 2 complete sitters but anyway as you say all relative.

I meant to add in my original post, that would have been a game Seba would have thrived in. Sticking Pelle up top is what Sweden and Ireland would prefer, a big target they can engage physically with. The small more nimble forwards cause these defenders all kinds of trouble.
Possession was pretty much 50-50 in general over the 90, but Italy only allowed them possession typically where they wanted them to have it ie areas that couldn't hurt them. So that's what I meant by dominating it, and it will be similiar scenario against the Irish also, sorry should have been clear in that regard.

Sweden team only touched the ball 5 times in Italy box over 90 mins.

Ok, makes more sense in the context you've put it in, and I tend to agree with it regarding possession....

Regarding the influence that Seba could've had in a game like that......Conte has Insigne who offers pretty much the exact same things as Seba, both positive and negative aspects (and both left sided forwards too), so it would've been nice to have Insigne get in there as a comparison.....the big knock Giovinco always had in Italy was that he was easily overmatched against stronger defenders especially in the box.....

[TFC Tifoso]

Yep, our football has been based on tactics, football iq, and fight. That is the football that I love. That is the football that I grew up with. When we play it we, do well.

agreed......I love it when we win like this....

[Hamilton_Red]

Didn't see the game this morning - but it sounded quite cattenaccio ish by all accounts?


Italy doesn't do catenaccio anymore either.....they'll never be mistaken for 1970's Holland, but Italy's back 3 + Buffon have been playing together for Juventus for the last 5 years now......at this point, their communication is pretty much telepathic.....could go a long way in a short tournament......they just know where the other defender will be all the time, and that's what makes them so organized....

[ronzilla]

The Gemany/Poland game was the biggest snoozefest of the tournament and I expected more goals. Germany is not the same team as 2014 and have stepped down a few notches. I doubt they will get past the semis.

I think the Italy/Belgium was the most entertaining so far, although Italy played very cautiously against the Swedes. The BBC will allow Italy to make a deep run in the tournament.

It's still kind of frustrating that Giovinco is not there and think he could have made an impact as a sub, but it is what it is.

[TFC Tifoso]

Didn't see the game this morning - but it sounded quite cattenaccio ish by all accounts?

not really...was just a very sloppy game on both sides, which Italy happened to win 1-0......Italy wasn't actively looking to defend, they just play good defense.....I wonder what people call it when Brazil or Spain only win 1-0?.........

[burlington Red]

not really...was just a very sloppy game on both sides, which Italy happened to win 1-0......Italy wasn't actively looking to defend, they just play good defense.....I wonder what people call it when Brazil or Spain only win 1-0?.........


as an irishman as in proper born and raised in ireland, I'm so glad Giovinco didn't play today. I appreciate that wasn't Italy's full strength team due to them already being qualified, but had he played he would have hurt us, See the damage Insigne caused when he came on, similiar player to Giovinco imo. As a proud Irishman, big kudos to Buffon today , he was class after the game to the Irish bench. In a tournament where Ronaldo has let himself down. Buffon showed class today.

I am referring to Buffon coming straight to Martin O Neill and Roy Keane right on 90 mins to hug them in case anyone is wondering as buffon wasn't playing....

[TFC Tifoso]

as an irishman as in proper born and raised in ireland, I'm so glad Giovinco didn't play today. I appreciate that wasn't Italy's full strength team due to them already being qualified, but had he played he would have hurt us, See the damage Insigne caused when he came on, similiar player to Giovinco imo. As a proud Irishman, big kudos to Buffon today , he was class after the game to the Irish bench. In a tournament where Ronaldo has let himself down. Buffon showed class today.

I am referring to Buffon coming straight to Martin O Neill and Roy Keane right on 90 mins to hug them in case anyone is wondering as buffon wasn't playing....

It was an epic win for you guys and congrats on the round of 16!.....

What can you say about Gigi......he is absolutely a class act, a true "good guy" in the sport......that was a great clip of him going over to congratulate O'Neill and Keano after the game....

It was actually great scenes all around in that game yesterday......from Irish and Italian fans partying together outside the stadium before kickoff.......to the Irish lending a voice for the Italian anthem......to the post game gesture by Buffon......and a historic win for Ireland in between......of course I would have been upset had the game costed the Azzurri anything, but everything that encompassed that match really showed what the sport is all about.....

[Areathrasher]

Va bene ragazzi
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClnZ3C5WQAEHjQD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2ECnmgA.gif

http://media.collegetimes.com/uploads/2014/06/eamon-dunphy-on-the-tinwhistle.gif

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/812950/original/?width=566&version=812950
(Just having a bit of fun fellas ;) http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/5.gif)

[zamperina]

Good Job Ireland!

Now go beat France! g:D