The Jozy Altidore Thread

[ManUtd4ever]

He better have his number retired.

[cmonyoureds]

Needs a 66th minute tribute along the same lines as Dichio......

[barticusz]

I told myself last year.. whoever scores the winner to give TFC the cup I'd finally get the authentic jersey.

Altidore, 17, longsleeve, Gold fucking star!!!

[Auzzy]

I told myself last year.. whoever scores the winner to give TFC the cup I'd finally get the authentic jersey.

Altidore, 17, longsleeve, Gold fucking star!!!

That's a very good idea!

[grizzle]

L e g e n d

[barticusz]

That's a very good idea!

mlssoccer.com has the white jerseys with a star in their shop.. but not the red one yet.

[CBTFC]

after last night, i put even more emphasis on this.

Some people want to their players to conform and fall in line like good little boys. I don't.

Love ya jozy!

doubling down on this!

:)

[JuliquE]

Needs a 66th minute tribute along the same lines as Dichio......
Seconded.

[crgal]

absolutely...the goal was historical and needs to be remembered. Thirded! (if that is a thing)

[FluSH]

Needs a 66th minute tribute along the same lines as Dichio......

THIS! And others agree with you as well!!

[FluSH]

What Jozy did this post season was nothing short of incredible! That goal should always be honoured!

[tfcfans]

OOOOhhhh Jozy Altidore
Jozy Altidore, all he did was score, Jozy Altidore.....

.....to the tune we all know and love.....

Let's start building some lyrics......ha ha ha.....

[JuliquE]

OOOOhhhh Jozy Altidore
Jozy Altidore, all he did was score, Jozy Altidore.....

.....to the tune we all know and love.....

Let's start building some lyrics......ha ha ha.....
Very catchy and familiar, yet with enough variation for it to work, methinks.

[Couchy81]

Needs a 66th minute tribute along the same lines as Dichio......

This needs to happen.

[trane]

Jozy Altidore, you know he is going to score.

[tfcfans]

Very catchy and familiar, yet with enough variation for it to work, methinks.

Thanks --- I figure the simpler the better for it to catch on.....my daughter approved it which is really my key demo.....ha ha ha.....

[Shakes McQueen]

Starting to think Jozy might just make it official and switch citizenship, haha. He retweeted someone saying this today:

"The United States can hate him all they want. The rest of Canada can hate him all they want. @JozyAltidore (https://twitter.com/JozyAltidore) is ours now. He is Toronto’s. He’s a hero here, a legend, an icon, and he can stay as long as he damn well pleases."

[C.Ronaldo]

Jozy is the Joe Carter of TFC

I love him, my new man crush. SEEYA justin timerblake

[Adamo23]

mlssoccer.com has the white jerseys with a star in their shop.. but not the red one yet.

Aren't they changing their white kit next year?

[pfk]

Here's Jozy's speech today (https://youtu.be/ewMnf358B_A?t=34m2s) :drunk:

[Jack]

Jozy has cemented his legendary status today with that speech.

[Voodooman]

First banner of the new season.

Dr.Jozy in a lab coat after mentioning the laboratory aha.

Love this guy.

[rocktml]

Can we send that speech to the impact!

[Globetrotter]

It's the type of speech that makes you no friends outside of the city you're currently in.

It's great for a laugh behind closed doors - long before the age of recording everything on your phone and instantly putting it online. Now, it's more fuel for everyone else. Great moments within the speech, but it's not going to be liked by anyone but us!

[Jack]

It's the type of speech that makes you no friends outside of the city you're currently in.

It's great for a laugh behind closed doors - long before the age of recording everything on your phone and instantly putting it online. Now, it's more fuel for everyone else. Great moments within the speech, but it's not going to be liked by anyone but us!

It's like Eto'o taunting Madrid a few years back. Sure, it gives our biggest rivals some fuel, but they're already our biggest rivals, anyway, so it's not like they're going to hate us even more.

[Globetrotter]

It's like Eto'o taunting Madrid a few years back. Sure, it gives our biggest rivals some fuel, but they're already our biggest rivals, anyway, so it's not like they're going to hate us even more.

True - I wasn't even looking at it from our rivals standpoint. Putting the funny aside, it didn't come across great in general, and certainly more for the Americans or USMNT supporters to work with.

Anyways... it's done, he enjoyed it and will live with it. He's given us memories for a lifetime.

[Red4ever]

If I can't be Jozy Altidore drunk all Christmas break, I at least want to be Jay Champman in a Santa hat drunk.

[Cas87]

Following the instragram stories on the accounts of MLS, TFC, Jozy and even TSN there was a lot of champagne and buds in those busses (and the ACC beforehand, and the Sheraton Hotel afterwards!)

[FluSH]

Can we send that speech to the impact!

YES!!

[backbeat]

It's the type of speech that makes you no friends outside of the city you're currently in.

It's great for a laugh behind closed doors - long before the age of recording everything on your phone and instantly putting it online. Now, it's more fuel for everyone else. Great moments within the speech, but it's not going to be liked by anyone but us!


i don't care at all

I LOVED IT - JOZY THE MAN!!!

[Globetrotter]

Apparently Seattle ran an ad today (in the paper?) congratulating Seattle on the victory and announcing the parade.

[Jack]

Apparently Seattle ran an ad today (in the paper?) congratulating Seattle on the victory and announcing the parade.

Hilarious.

[Yohan]

Apparently Seattle ran an ad today (in the paper?) congratulating Seattle on the victory and announcing the parade.
https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/940229791063662592/photo/1

[trane]

I love Jozy. Fuck everywhere else.

[Redcoe15]

Following the instragram stories on the accounts of MLS, TFC, Jozy and even TSN there was a lot of champagne and buds in those busses (and the ACC beforehand, and the Sheraton Hotel afterwards!)
ONE OF US!
ONE OF US!
ONE OF US!
ONE OF US! :drunk:g:D

[flatpicker]

Following the instragram stories on the accounts of MLS, TFC, Jozy and even TSN there was a lot of champagne and buds in those busses (and the ACC beforehand, and the Sheraton Hotel afterwards!)

I got a bunch of that champagne dumped on me by Jordan Hamilton.
Between that, and all the beer that got dumped on me during the game, I really need to clean my winter coat!

[Auzzy]

I just noticed that Jozy actually dropped the mic at the end of his instant legend speech. I don't think the mic drop is clear on some of the videos, it is in the video here (near the end of the article):

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfc-celebrates-first-mls-cup-toronto-parade/

[Red4ever]

"Are you crazy, are you dumb brother?"

Legend.

[PAOK17]

It's like Eto'o taunting Madrid a few years back. Sure, it gives our biggest rivals some fuel, but they're already our biggest rivals, anyway, so it's not like they're going to hate us even more.
Agreed. If they need that speech to fire them up against us, then it's not even a rivalry.

[trane]

Did I say, I love Jozy, and I could not give two shits about what everyone outside of us think.


Toronto till I Fucking die. Bitches.

[backbeat]

Did I say, I love Jozy, and I could not give two shits about what everyone outside of us think.


Toronto till I Fucking die. Bitches.


^this - absofuckinglutely

[billyfly]

Did I say, I love Jozy, and I could not give two shits about what everyone outside of us think.


Toronto till I Fucking die. Bitches.

yes Sir

[James17930]

"Are you crazy, are you dumb brother?"

Legend.

I love it!

[Blindside16]

Did I say, I love Jozy, and I could not give two shits about what everyone outside of us think.


Toronto till I Fucking die. Bitches.

ABSOFUCKINGLUTLY!!! Jozy is a LEGEND. I really need to get his speech printed on a shirt lol

[Red18andRed23]

I will take one or two or three of those t-shirts too please ;)

LOVED Jozy's speech! 6 on the WAAAAVE!!

Jen

[lintberg]

Jozy has cemented his legendary status today with that speech.

Gotta love a drunk Jozy!!! Fantastic!!!

[C.Ronaldo]

"Are you crazy, are you dumb brother?"

Legend.


this was NWO wolfpack level shite

[Brooker]

Jozy Altidore, you know he is going to score.

we go wild wild wild

[Globetrotter]

I got a bunch of that champagne dumped on me by Jordan Hamilton.
Between that, and all the beer that got dumped on me during the game, I really need to clean my winter coat!

Get'er done. After Cheyrou and Ricketts scored vs MTL last year, my coat was drenched from the celebrations in 116.

I hadn't been drinking but my coat would make others assume otherwise - and sure enough I got stopped in a ride program driving home. Luckily I had already taken my coat off, stashed it on the passenger floor and had driven a fair bit with the windows down to air out the car. I should have just kept it in the trunk. After some back and forth, I was let through.

[JuliquE]

True - I wasn't even looking at it from our rivals standpoint. Putting the funny aside, it didn't come across great in general, and certainly more for the Americans or USMNT supporters to work with.

Anyways... it's done, he enjoyed it and will live with it. He's given us memories for a lifetime.
Bruh!

This our moment, and you steady thinkin' on what others will think.

Players will tell you winning the treble already pisses off the other clubs (first hand account, btw)—damned if you do, damned if you don't… so, just enjoy this!

Jozy is everything, from now on.



Apparently Seattle ran an ad today (in the paper?) congratulating Seattle on the victory and announcing the parade.
You can't make this up! xD

[Cas87]

Apparently Seattle ran an ad today (in the paper?) congratulating Seattle on the victory and announcing the parade.

Here is a photo from the Toronto Star story on it

https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/tfc/2017/12/11/seattle-paper-shows-mls-victory-ads-for-sounders/sounderscup.jpg.size.custom.crop.797x650.jpg

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2017/12/11/seattle-paper-shows-mls-victory-ads-for-sounders.html

[paul-collins]

Two stars lol

[Abou Sky]

Jozy has cemented his legendary status today with that speech.

I didn't think that I could possibly have more of a man crush on the guy, then he goes and does that! <swoon>

[ensco]

^This is just a sad comment on the crap going on in the newspaper business.

This paper has no beat reporter on the Sounders, now this.

I feel for the Sounders fans on this

[trane]

ABSOFUCKINGLUTLY!!! Jozy is a LEGEND. I really need to get his speech printed on a shirt lol

I would totally buy that. No joke.

[Redcoe15]

I just realized,

#17 was big for us in '17.

[JuliquE]

Stumbled upon this a moment ago.

They admittedly don't much follow the sport, but it were still neat seeing Jozy represent the badge in a somewhat unconventional forum, as we're accustomed to seeing.

You can see how much he really loves Toronto, and it's wonderful!

OLPSz3-oyVQ

[Shakes McQueen]

Here is a photo from the Toronto Star story on it

https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/tfc/2017/12/11/seattle-paper-shows-mls-victory-ads-for-sounders/sounderscup.jpg.size.custom.crop.797x650.jpg

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2017/12/11/seattle-paper-shows-mls-victory-ads-for-sounders.html

I'm going to guess this was a case of them having all of those banner images and whatnot ready to go at the throw of a switch if Seattle won... and someone accidentally threw the switch.

[trane]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbiD5wOgXYU

[James17930]

Stumbled upon this a moment ago.

They admittedly don't much follow the sport, but it were still neat seeing Jozy represent the badge in a somewhat unconventional forum, as we're accustomed to seeing.

You can see how much he really loves Toronto, and it's wonderful!

OLPSz3-oyVQ

Woooooowwww ... that Ebro guy is an idiot.

[tfcfans]

OOOOhhhh Jozy Altidore
Jozy Altidore, all he did was score, Jozy Altidore.....

.....to the tune we all know and love.....

Let's start building some lyrics......ha ha ha.....

To quote myself --- I know, very tacky.....is this 66th minute song thing happening? have we settled on a Jozy commemorative song? I'm partial to my simplistic lyrics (I figure everyone will pick it up quickly which is key), but hey that's just me.....ha ha ha ha.....either way, whatever we choose, something needs to be ready to go in less than a month.....I think a nice bookend from first goal at 23' to Championship winning goal at 66', is an obvious must have......:scarf:

[tfcfans]

Bump --- is this Jozy song happening?? (shameless self plug here......:rolleyes:)

[notthesun]

50 goals in 96 appearances across all competitions for Jozy now. Plus 11 assists in MLS regular season, 4 in the playoffs, and 2 in the VCup.

[Couchy81]

50 goals in 96 appearances across all competitions for Jozy now. Plus 11 assists in MLS regular season, 4 in the playoffs, and 2 in the VCup.

absolute unit

[Red CB Toronto]

50 goals in 96 appearances across all competitions for Jozy now. Plus 11 assists in MLS regular season, 4 in the playoffs, and 2 in the VCup.

50 goals and 17 assists in 96 appearances with the Reds. Like it a lot.

[BenRhodes23]

He's alright I guess

[Oldtimer]

Extended interview with Jozy:

https://youtu.be/ACbXNxv0hFY

[ensco]

He has scored in five straight finals.

The bum.

[denime]

Source: Altidore target for Serie A, Ligue 1 club



(http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/950612927?-19896:6206) (http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/950612927?-19896:6206)No club in EU will pay him half he is getting from TFC,unless TFC wants to dump him and get some money I don't see why Altidore would go back to Europe.

[ensco]

I think it is possible, if TFC don't receive much of a fee. TFC owe Altidore about $7M for the rest of this year and next, and I suspect if you gave Jozy a kiss and rounded it up to $10M for two full years, he might be willing to move.

I would understand if he is interested in a move to a good situation. The endless USMNT hatefest for him is really awful, and he has now done everything there is to do in MLS.

I disagree that $5M a year for two years is double what Altidore would command in Europe. It's on the high end, but it's not silly, but if TFC needed a meaningful fee also, then the number could probably become silly.

Mitroglou is is an interesting comparable. Signed by Marseille a year ago at age 29 for €15M (plus €10M wages) for 4 years, that’s USD $7M a year. Mitroglou is obviously a bigger name, but he has had a similar career arc to Jozy (big success at home and in Portugal/Holland, but flamed out in England)


I have spent the last two weeks immersed in Ligue Un, and I think he could play in that league. Ligue Un (ex PSG) is a similar level to the better Mexican teams.

Watch OGC Nice here, now coached by Vieira, who are widely rumoured to be imminently moving Balotelli to Marseille.

I love Jozy and hope he stays

[tfcfans]

To quote myself --- I know, very tacky.....is this 66th minute song thing happening? have we settled on a Jozy commemorative song? I'm partial to my simplistic lyrics (I figure everyone will pick it up quickly which is key), but hey that's just me.....ha ha ha ha.....either way, whatever we choose, something needs to be ready to go in less than a month.....I think a nice bookend from first goal at 23' to Championship winning goal at 66', is an obvious must have......:scarf:

OOOOhhhh Jozy Altidore
Jozy Altidore, all he did was score, Jozy Altidore.....

.....to the tune we all know and love.....

Let's start building some lyrics......ha ha ha.....



In relation to the other threads about "new songs" and such --- I humbly (not humbly), bump my plea to add the Altidore song as a bookend to the Dichio song......

[ensco]

A nice story

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/for-toronto-fc-a-quiet-meeting-at-an-english-pub-in-2014-helped-turn-the-franchise-around

[James17930]

A nice story

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/for-toronto-fc-a-quiet-meeting-at-an-english-pub-in-2014-helped-turn-the-franchise-around

I love stories like this where you get the personal, behind the scenes stuff in sports because you so rarely find out about it.

[DinamoTFC]

A nice story

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/for-toronto-fc-a-quiet-meeting-at-an-english-pub-in-2014-helped-turn-the-franchise-around

Excellent read. Nice to hear how Vanney influenced him to change his club choice from Lille to Toronto.

[JuliquE]

A nice story

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/mls/for-toronto-fc-a-quiet-meeting-at-an-english-pub-in-2014-helped-turn-the-franchise-around
The honesty, despite some withheld details, is striking and makes for a very interesting perspective in all this.

In many ways, Jozy's time at Sunderland was a microcosm of our (TFC's) existence, to date (at the time); we evolved together, then, and what a beautiful story, indeed.

Thanks for sharing this, ensco.

[trane]

Jozy Altidore, you know he is going to score!!!!!

My thoughts on the subject. Best CF in the MLS, after a certain Balkan-Swede.

[Hamilton_Red]

5 goals in 4 games...scoring at the highest rate in the league (for rhose that have played a significant amount of time). Get your bets in his Golden Boot win - this is his year.

[Auzzy]

5 goals in 4 games...scoring at the highest rate in the league (for rhose that have played a significant amount of time). Get your bets in his Golden Boot win - this is his year.

His first goal vs. Seattle was great. His second goal was out of this world.

He also looks a bit tired at times. I think he's still recovering and getting back to 100% fitness after his surgery & recovery. (But then again, many great strikers do that all the time: disappear for portions of the game, then pop up to score an amazing goal.)

I hope they manage his time & recovery carefully, as Jozy is absolutely crucial to the way we play right now. Also we can't get that TAM winger soon enough. Draw attention away from Jozy (& Pozo); provide more assists; and TAM winger plus Akinola and/or Hamilton and/or Boyd is less of a drop off in quality, than if we need to remove Jozy from our current lineup for rest or recovery.

[OgtheDim]

Adding to this today


In this article with a Cinci reporter https://sports.yahoo.com/24-thoughts-the-struggles-of-fc-cincinnati-and-catching-up-with-jozy-altidore-163724570.html




But Altidore is so happy in Canada that he’s considering settling there permanently, joking that he’s trying to sell his fiancee — tennis star Sloan Stephens — on the city over her preference, Los Angeles. Altidore is also mulling whether to apply for Canadian citizenship, for which he became eligible earlier this year.

[ag futbol]

From a fan perspective, great. All for it.

But otherwise, I don’t think the club should have to resort to making Altidore domestic to meet its content requirements. Hopefully that’s not the intent here.

[James17930]

From a fan perspective, great. All for it.

But otherwise, I don’t think the club should have to resort to making Altidore domestic to meet its content requirements. Hopefully that’s not the intent here.

Seems like it has nothing to do with the club. He just genuinely loves it in Toronto.

[Oldtimer]

Great to see Jozy back, a little out of shape. Scoring a goal on his day back was a huge statement.

[SoccMan2]

He just needs to try and stay healthy but unfortunately the way it’s been going with this guy that’s a hard ask, but if he stays healthy he will be a major factor with this team.

[jloome]

His quotes from the MLSsoccer story today

“For me it just goes to show what's real is real man,” Altidore said. “You can't fool people, maybe for a couple days but in the end, and especially in a blue collar city like this, they know what the real is. At the end of the day, they know what I'm all about. They know what I'm here for, why I came here and I'm always gonna put the team first and play for that, they give us a lift like no other.”
--
On the goal:
“I kind of had a feeling it was coming far post, but the timing of the ball from Soteldo, I think makes the goal,” Altidore said. “If you see when he plays the ball to Justin [Morrow (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/justin-morrow/)] in full stride and full sprint. And all Justin has to do is play it across. These little plays you sense what a player is all about. I think that’s what makes the goal, is Soteldo’s patience there and to play the ball at the right time to Morrow to let him cross that ball.”

[notthesun]

There's a lot to say about Jozy, but what stands out for me is that no matter what, I find myself rooting for him.

[MightyDM]

Great to see Jozy back, a little out of shape. Scoring a goal on his day back was a huge statement.

He looked slim though. like someone said "bulking up is causing your hamstring problems dude"

[MightyDM]

There's a lot to say about Jozy, but what stands out for me is that no matter what, I find myself rooting for him.


me too.

[Joe Kool]

His quotes from the MLSsoccer story today

“For me it just goes to show what's real is real man,” Altidore said. “You can't fool people, maybe for a couple days but in the end, and especially in a blue collar city like this, they know what the real is. At the end of the day, they know what I'm all about. They know what I'm here for, why I came here and I'm always gonna put the team first and play for that, they give us a lift like no other.”
--
On the goal:
“I kind of had a feeling it was coming far post, but the timing of the ball from Soteldo, I think makes the goal,” Altidore said. “If you see when he plays the ball to Justin [Morrow (https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/justin-morrow/)] in full stride and full sprint. And all Justin has to do is play it across. These little plays you sense what a player is all about. I think that’s what makes the goal, is Soteldo’s patience there and to play the ball at the right time to Morrow to let him cross that ball.”



The other thing that was interesting from the same interview was him saying that Javier had them practicing the type of crosses that he scored on so he had an idea where the ball was going to be when it came in. Nice to hear our "interim" coach having a positive impact with something translating from training to the game.

[Canary10]

me too.

He brings a certain energy that really gets the crowd going. And the combination of his size, smarts, and ability to piss people off is great on opposing defenders (sometimes less so when he aims it at the club).

I agree with your comment that he trimmed down. Looks like one of the few that had an actual off-season training regimen and did it.

[OgtheDim]

What people havn't realised is MLS has become a big time CONCACAF league in terms of shithousery & the like.

We have 3 people really really good at that

Osorio, Laryea, Altidore


Like most of the league would look upon Delgado & Mavinga as bonafide CONCACAF fiends. They are not even in our top 3.


Jozy is in another CONCACAF shithousery league.



Especially this bit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmtVNiSvYIg

[Canary10]

What people havn't realised is MLS has become a big time CONCACAF league in terms of shithousery & the like.

We have 3 people really really good at that

Osorio, Laryea, Altidore


Like most of the league would look upon Delgado & Mavinga as bonafide CONCACAF fiends. They are not even in our top 3.


Jozy is in another CONCACAF shithousery league.



Especially this bit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmtVNiSvYIg

That's hilarious. I never saw that. Perfect example of what I was trying to say above.

[DavemTFC]

Osorio doesnt really seem like more of a shithouser than anyone else, unless I'm missing something he's done in the past.

Dwyer would probably be the third guy, though it's less impressive eith him since that's the only football related talent he has left

[James17930]

I just really wish he could be a bit humble. Yes, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and some of the things he's said have been honest and thought-provoking ... but he's also said some really stupid things too, and I wish he could just apologize for the stupid things so we can all move on.

[noimpactinmtl]

I just really wish he could be a bit humble. Yes, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and some of the things he's said have been honest and thought-provoking ... but he's also said some really stupid things too, and I wish he could just apologize for the stupid things so we can all move on.

On the flip side, that’s how you get boring stars like Mike Trout. At least Jozy is comfortable in his skin and knows who he is.

We need players who are willing to play the heel. It’s good for the league and entertainment.

[ensco]

Well this is Jozy's chance. I feel bad for Ayo but Jozy has his real shot to flip the narrative now. I predict he does it and is back in the WC qualifying picture for the US in the Ocho.

If you saw the postgame you saw him raving about Soteldo, saying he made the goal. Jozy knows how to do this.

[jloome]

Well this is Jozy's chance. I feel bad for Ayo but Jozy has his real shot to flip the narrative now. I predict he does it and is back in the WC qualifying picture for the US in the Ocho.

If you saw the postgame you saw him raving about Soteldo, saying he made the goal. Jozy knows how to do this.

The U.S. has substantially fewer competitive striker options than their fans think. Realistically, Darryl Dike is their number one now by a fair margin and having watched all of his Barnsley games, it's fair to say he's sort of a young Jozy but with (ducks) better movement (and less speed, so there's a tradeoff).

But past that it's a bunch of guys who are either of dubious pedigree versus international defenders (Zardes, Sargent) and up-and-comers trying to prove themselves. If Jozy's healthy and scoring I'd be really surprised if they DIDN'T call him up.

[Richard]

I highly doubt Jozy will be injury free for him to be a consideration.

But lets hope for the best.
:deadhorse:

[Oldtimer]

With a goal each of the last two games, Jozy seems back in form.

[Oldtimer]

Bringing this thread back to discuss Jozy's likely departure.

[OgtheDim]

Legend

Time to go

Thanks

[Thrillos]

Legend

Time to go

Thanks

… and close thread, ‘nough said.

Lol. Just kidding.

Countdown to 3 seven paragraph posts in 5 4 3 2…

[Mr. Inbetween]

Legend

Time to go

Thanks


… and close thread, ‘nough said.

Lol. Just kidding.

Countdown to 3 seven paragraph posts in 5 4 3 2…

Legacy

Time... Definitely... Maybe...

Chants

[MikeForbes]

He'll leave.

Take some shots at the club.

Club will leak some shots towards Jozy.

Two years later they'll make up and Jozy will get a statue.

[TFC/Everton]

Club legend. The 2015-2019 version of Jozy will be remembered as one of the best strikers in league history.

[Mr. Inbetween]

He'll leave.

Take some shots at the club.

Club will leak some shots towards Jozy.

Two years later they'll make up and Jozy will get a statue.


If what's past is prologue, it sure does seem likely.

Although both parties, throughout December and January, until now, have been oddly muted on the matter; dare say respectful.

Be very very very quiet, it's Wabbit Season!

[Oldtimer]

If what's past is prologue, it sure does seem likely.

Although both parties, throughout December and January, until now, have been oddly muted on the matter; dare say respectful.

Be very very very quiet, it's Wabbit Season!

Let's hope now that the grownups are in the room.

UK press less than flattering due to Jozy's poor stint there:
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/other-sports/raducanu-sloane-stephens-husband-tennis-25945893.amp

[ag futbol]

Let's hope now that the grownups are in the room.

UK press less than flattering due to Jozy's poor stint there:
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/other-sports/raducanu-sloane-stephens-husband-tennis-25945893.amp
I know Altidore didn’t have a great stint in England but this is nothing more than the Brits putting one over on the Americans. I am sure there are plenty of other candidates for ”worst” ever.

[Canary10]

Let's hope now that the grownups are in the room.

UK press less than flattering due to Jozy's poor stint there:
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/other-sports/raducanu-sloane-stephens-husband-tennis-25945893.amp

I watched a few Sunderland games at the time. I remember one move where he had the ball inside the box on the left, just outside of the six yard box. He went to cross, and I think his plant foot nudged the ball and he totally missed it. Went absolutely flying over his ass and out of play beside the goal. Just the worst example of everything that had gone wrong for him there. I was just shaking my head, and enjoyed laughing at him since he was American.

When I heard we were swapping Jermain Defoe for Jozy that moment was still stuck in my mind (I think it was about 6 weeks before). I thought it was an absolute disaster move for TFC, especially since I really liked JD, being someone who kinda followed Spurs when Norwich isn't in the PL (which Mighty DM will remind me is often). For sure I was all over the RPB boards with criticism and doom-saying. Jozy really won me over.

[Canary10]

Og posted this a ways back in this thread. I don't know how you can't love Jozy playing for your team when you see this.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmtVNiSvYIg

[Canary10]

Also this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRwPJVBmTsM

[Oldtimer]

Also this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRwPJVBmTsM

LEGEND. He did that carrying an injury in quite a bit of pain, a goal that won't be forgotten.

It looks like it's probably Sloane who Jozy embraces after the goal and may be the source of the high pitched screaming after the goal that one faintly hears above the crowd. Never saw confirmation of that though.

[ensco]

^ I never know which big Jozy goal is my favourite. There are so many.

The one where single-handedly he broke Montreal down and passed to Ricketts to clinch the win in extra time is probably the winner - and he didn't even score it. But the emotion of that moment...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-iZmBvmDIs

[ensco]

I watched a few Sunderland games at the time. I remember one move where he had the ball inside the box on the left, just outside of the six yard box. He went to cross, and I think his plant foot nudged the ball and he totally missed it. Went absolutely flying over his ass and out of play beside the goal. Just the worst example of everything that had gone wrong for him there. I was just shaking my head, and enjoyed laughing at him since he was American.

When I heard we were swapping Jermain Defoe for Jozy that moment was still stuck in my mind (I think it was about 6 weeks before). I thought it was an absolute disaster move for TFC, especially since I really liked JD, being someone who kinda followed Spurs when Norwich isn't in the PL (which Mighty DM will remind me is often). For sure I was all over the RPB boards with criticism and doom-saying. Jozy really won me over.

I didn't know what to think, but I sure remember people saying that.

The supporters there called him "Dozy Anti-score". That still cracks me up. They are so good at that stuff over there.

[Oldtimer]

^ I never know which big Jozy goal is my favourite. There are so many.

The one where single-handedly he broke Montreal down and passed to Ricketts to clinch the win in extra time is probably the winner - and he didn't even score it. But the emotion of that moment...



So many good memories of Jozy...

[Gringo Starr]

I didn't know what to think, but I sure remember people saying that.

The supporters there called him "Dozy Anti-score". That still cracks me up. They are so good at that stuff over there.

Some of the stuff they come up with is really clever unfortunately there was a crap ton of racist abuse hurled at Jozy from the Sunderland fans as well. When you combine that with all the racist crap he dealt with in Holland it’s easy to see why he has a chip on his shoulder.

[ensco]

Just listened to MLS Extra Time. They think Jozy could be a max TAM player, which certainly explains why TFC are hoping they can do a buyout at something less than 100 cents on the dollar.

They think the likeliest landing spots for him are Orlando, SKC and Colorado.

(Also they think he could maybe score 25 goals. :hide:)

[Mr. Inbetween]

From the other thread... question...

Regarding Jozy... curiosity cold killed this cat... for argument sake...
I get he's likely gone... I also get TFC and Jozy camps are likely leveraging each others positions...
Until any perceived or hard deadlines to maximize any outcomes...
I also get for insurance reasons and Jozy's injury history it would simply not be worth it...
However, if TFC is expecting him at camp and he does not show up, is there a MLS mechanism...
A precedent to limit or void his remaining contract earnings besides the understood off-season unilateral buy-out clause?
Likely very messy and unnecessary; MLSPA.
Just wondering.

[jloome]

Some of the stuff they come up with is really clever unfortunately there was a crap ton of racist abuse hurled at Jozy from the Sunderland fans as well. When you combine that with all the racist crap he dealt with in Holland it’s easy to see why he has a chip on his shoulder.

It goes even deeper than that. He got into a spat with the club and teammates shortly after he joined Sunderland. The scuttlebutt was that the first-teamers were entitled and undisciplined, and when they went out partying together a night or two before a game, he refused to go with them.

That led to a bustup where they basically refused to acknowledge him on the pitch, which is why even when he was standing in five feet of open space they wouldn't cross or pass to him. It was a team playing as individuals anyway, but it basically limited his touches to junk.

Their manager also tried to get him more involved, perhaps unware of this, by playing him wide for a bunch of games, but he was basically set up to fail from the day he got there. I watched all their games at the time and he was just a ghost on the pitch.

Even when they benched him for a period, the guys getting time ahead of him did no better. I think their top scorer that year had five goals, or something like that. He managed to be the striker on two of the worst teams in Premier League history, so...

Stick an in-form Jozy Altidore -- the guy who scored 39 goals in Holland and a pair against Spain for the U.S. -- on a GOOD premiership team, or even a mediocre one, and there would be no debate that he isnt' even close to the worst premiership striker ever.

[jloome]

https://somosfanaticos.fans/br/futebolbrasileiro/CABE-NO-SEU-TIME-Astro-da-MLS-atacante-do-Toronto-manifesta-interesse-de-jogar-no-Brasil-20220121-0009.html

This Brazilian site says Altidore is being shopped to teams there.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Blast from the past: Terrence Boyd is apparently going to Kaiserslautern.

(He's been in the German Third Div since leaving us and has scored fairly regularly.)

https://www.der-betze-brennt.de/aktuell/transfergeruechte/1589-terrence-boyd.php

Quote taken from another thread... sort of, kind of, I would say highlights your point in a general sense about Jozy.
Just like Jozy didn't work out at Sunderland, Boyd didn't at TFC.
Didn't, doesn't, won't, mean that a player can't, couldn't, wouldn't contribute or re-emerge with a chance at another club.
I mean IIRC Jozy at NYRB, AZ, TFC & USMNT seemed to have had almost a goal per other game played production rate.
Close to 50%; not bad for a striker IMO.
I think his stint with The Black Cats was an obvious aberration and your offered insight would certainly explain it.
I think that some of disdain expressed at him while at SAFC and in the EPL and even now should be tempered in this context.

[jloome]

I think that some of disdain expressed at him while at SAFC and in the EPL and even now should be tempered in this context.

Oh, without a doubt. But that's not really the English way when it comes to Americans. I grew up there and there's both a pervasive cultural fascination with its "bigness" -- freedom, jingoism, metropolises etc -- and an utter contempt for its people as stupid, arrogant and loud.

Much of this I think stems from the Second World War and the post-war period. Britons were generally superior in their attitudes due to ruling much of the colonial globe for three centuries and when America was needed to win the war, they got rather tired of hearing "without our help you'd all be speaking German" from a country that stayed out of it -- and where 40% of the polled population supported Hitler -- until absolutely necessary.

So they love American things, but can't stand Americans. The notion that one might start as a striker on a Premiership team is pretty anathema to them. Unless the player pulls of a Dempsey or McBride and starts scoring right away, they're going to go hammer and tongs at him. Add in that he's African American and there's deep, pervasive racism in England and you had a recipe for wanting him to fail from the second he got there.

Also after Kezman and a few others -- and Jozy's equally unsuccessful Hull loan -- there was deep suspicion that the Eredivisie doesn't produce strikers good enough for the Premier League.

[ensco]

Jozy also had problems in his personal life while he was at Sunderland. He has talked about that before.

[portu]

Jozy’s always been a big fish small pond, kind of guy. I don’t buy the “circumstancial” shit at Sunderland he was always poor in big leagues.

Top 5 Leagues: 3 Goals, 79 Games
MLS/Turkey/Holland: 117 Goals, 254 Games

[ensco]

Jozy’s always been a big fish small pond, kind of guy. I don’t buy the “circumstancial” shit at Sunderland he was always poor in big leagues.

Top 5 League Record: 3 Goals, 79 Games
MLS/Turkey/Holland: 117 Goals, 254 Games



I am beginning to think you don’t rate Jozy…

[jloome]

Jozy’s always been a big fish small pond, kind of guy. I don’t buy the “circumstancial” shit at Sunderland he was always poor in big leagues.

Top 5 Leagues: 3 Goals, 79 Games
MLS/Turkey/Holland: 117 Goals, 254 Games

He played for HULL and SUNDERLAND, two of the worst teams in the last thirty years of the English top flight. Both played anti-football where every man was largely for himself. It's not representative of his potential.

There are a lot of strikers who aren't world class but still put in good numbers in the Premier League and La Liga because they're on good teams that create chances for them. He didn't get that luxury.

It's simplistic to point at the league and say "that was the only reason" and ignore who he was playing for.

[portu]

He played for HULL and SUNDERLAND, two of the worst teams in the last thirty years of the English top flight. Both played anti-football where every man was largely for himself. It's not representative of his potential.

There are a lot of strikers who aren't world class but still put in good numbers in the Premier League and La Liga because they're on good teams that create chances for them. He didn't get that luxury.

It's simplistic to point at the league and say "that was the only reason" and ignore who he was playing for.
Jozy at Sunderland: 1 Goal, 42 Matches
Defoe at Sunderland: 34 Goals, 87 Matches

[Mr. Inbetween]

Jozy at Sunderland: 1 Goal, 42 Matches
Defoe at Sunderland: 34 Goals, 87 Matches

Framed as you have... mathematically... of course it seems obvious and undeniable...
On the flip-side...
I think, and believe jloome may also be suggesting, it is a little more nuanced then that... it is the little things, of time and place...
...coaches and systems... off and on-field player on goings, etc. ...
Defoe on loan 00-01 at AFC Bournemouth: 18Gls w/ 29Apps --- Defoe 17-20 at AFC Bournemouth: 4Gls w/ 28Apps.
Defoe on loan 19-20 at Rangers: 21Gls w/ 37Apps --- Defoe 20-22 at Rangers: 4Gls w/ 17Apps.

[ensco]

Nobody has had a more hard to sum up, vexing career than Jozy.

No escaping that 1 goal in 42 games at Sunderland is pretty tough.
No escaping that scoring 30+ goals in a single season in the Netherlands is incredible, I am not sure anyone has done that since he did.
No escaping that he has been brutally plagued by injuries.

Also no escaping that you can make any list of premiere all time MLS strikers you want, Keane, Donovan, BWP, Villa, Ibra, Wondo, Martinez, help yourself... and none will come close to doing what Jozy did starting post season 2016, through CCL 2018.

[jloome]

Jozy at Sunderland: 1 Goal, 42 Matches
Defoe at Sunderland: 34 Goals, 87 Matches

Defoe is the 15th leading scorer all time in the Premiership. He WAS world-class. I watched him at Sunderland and he created most of his own goals with speed, beating backlines on the break.

Jozy is not Jermain Defoe. And Defoe went on to score more goals after that at Rangers. He's 39 and there's a bidding war on for him between Sunderland and Cambridge now to keep playing in League One.

If Defoe had settled here and stayed healthy, he'd have scored 20 a year in his sleep.

I'm NOT saying Jozy was a world-class player but he was by no means the worst striker ever in the Premiership.

[noxx98]

Defoe is the 15th leading scorer all time in the Premiership. He WAS world-class. I watched him at Sunderland and he created most of his own goals with speed, beating backlines on the break.

Jozy is not Jermain Defoe. And Defoe went on to score more goals after that at Rangers. He's 39 and there's a bidding war on for him between Sunderland and Cambridge now to keep playing in League One.

If Defoe had settled here and stayed healthy, he'd have scored 20 a year in his sleep.

I'm NOT saying Jozy was a world-class player but he was by no means the worst striker ever in the Premiership.
Here's all of Defoe's goals for Sunderland. Got some service for sure, but he created a lot of those goals out of nothing himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFcKr5T09CI

[Mr. Inbetween]

I'm NOT saying Jozy was a world-class player but he was by no means the worst striker ever in the Premiership.


Maybe... Premiership one goal wonder, perennial striker Simon Cox; WBA V Spurs?

Its Sunday = Funday; Kidding... I am starting to like the Internet! ;)

[ensco]

Here's all of Defoe's goals for Sunderland. Got some service for sure, but he created a lot of those goals out of nothing himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFcKr5T09CI

Wow, watching this, you can make the case that Defoe was the greatest MLS player ever, just in terms of being an elite “top 100 in the world” player in his prime.

[OgtheDim]

And like a lot of players, both Defoe & Jozy's abilities were dependent upon the environment, the system on the field & their health.

Defoe when here was in a crappy environment for him to succeed - away from home specifically - which really tanked his quality that year.

Jozy was in a bad one in Sunderland.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Wow, watching this, you can make the case that Defoe was the greatest MLS player ever, just in terms of being an elite “top 100 in the world” player in his prime.

Yes you certainly can. Damn the Bloody Mess.
I guess he just couldn't separate himself from Family and the Island. Unsettled... may have been the phrase... lots going on I think.
Class striker. Was great at WHU; you could see his future. The what ifs of relegation fall-out IIRC.
Genoa please...

[MightyDM]

Sunderland was a complete and utter shit show, and didn't work to Jozy's strength which is movement. They tried to use him like a hold up player like Chris Wood when, at his best, he is about interchange and movement - almost a subtle kind of racist stereotyping: he's a big black american so should play with his back to goal. And they didnt have anyone to play off him like Seba did, and help create the space and movement he thrives from. Also, I don't care how he was at Sunderland. He's been a legend here.

The posters who attack him on these boards essentially are blaming him for his own injuries, and conveniently forget that he scored critical goals for us playing hurt. in fact his ankle injury became so chronic that he required surgery.

I loved the 2-2 goal in the Montreal game. Incredible skill from Seba and Jozy, and what a run by Jozy. The film afterwards that had Vanney yelling "don't change the play" was fantastic. Best game ever.

Still confused as to why he is not training. It does not make sense for him or for the club.

[JoesphNdo]

There's alot of nuance to the Jozy in Europe debate. I fully agree that he was set up to fail, played against his strengths in a bad team. Jozy is also a confidence player, he needs to feel good and be loved to perform - you could even see that at TFC. In form he would go to another level, like the 2016 play offs, but even here he could be off form and look like half the player. He never had that love or that patience in Europe, at least not in the top flight. When he did have it, in a smaller but still high level pond, he would once again flourish.

On the other hand, it's not just Sunderland - it's Sunderland, Hull and Villarreal. While I think if the circumstances were right Jozy absolutely could have succeeded and had the ability, a cold hearted analysis says ~5 seasons and 3 top flight goals. It's hard to get past that. Somebody said he wasn't the worst top flight striker ever and on talent I'd absolutely agree that but in terms of production? You'd have to be pretty convincing to confidently name say 10 worse producers who had an equal level of opportunity

Either way, that's Europe. However things end, an absolute TFC legend. I believe his last contract was the biggest contractual mistake the club has ever made but that doesn't change that. After Seba he's arguably our second best ever player, talent wise I'd personally only have Vazquez as the main argument against that and Jozy had a larger impact overall. A bonafied all time great for us who deserves the best and I hope ultimately is remembered as much. His legacy shouldn't be tainted by anything happening right now, it's not his fault he was given a contract that he'd have been an idiot to not sign

[portu]

For the record: I don’t think Jozy is a bad player. I just think his ideal “environment” or whatever you want to call it requires him to be one of the best players on his team. There is nothing wrong with needing to be a big fish in a small pond- it’s the case for many many players who tear up lesser leagues and then struggle in top ones. But he is not a unique player as some on this board have claimed and there are many examples of strikers in this league on significantly less money putting in equal to or better contributions. Legend at this club - sure, absolutely. Free from criticism or uniquely talented? C’mon. This is MLS, no one really is. That being said, amazing what he has managed at this club having played under 50% of the minutes in the last 6 seasons.

Aside: Jozy cannot be blamed for his contract, if I were him I’d tell TFC to eat it on their buyout offer. They knew all the risks of handing him that extension, intimately.

[MightyDM]

1. Jozy’s contract was not a bad decision, and I wish people would stop saying that. Failing to extend Seba and VV or otherwise plan for their departure in an orderly fashion were the wrong decisions. Jozy’s contract was made necessary by those bad decisions and it had to be done.

2. Nobody on this board is arguing that Jozy was one of the best strikers in the world, on a level with Harry Kane and Ibrahimovic. However, he is a fantastic striker who tore apart this league in games when it really mattered, as documented by Ensco earlier in this thread. And he was highly effective in the Netherlands and for the USMNT. He has proven himself as an elite goal scorer, and failing to succeed at a club that is itself a complete failure (Sunderland) doesn’t change that. There are loads - loads - of “strikers” who have shown nowhere near his goal scoring form, particularly in games that really matter in which clubs play very cautiously to limit chances. He deserves respect for that level of skill, which he has demonstrated again and again.

[portu]

1. Jozy’s contract was not a bad decision, and I wish people would stop saying that. Failing to extend Seba and VV or otherwise plan for their departure in an orderly fashion were the wrong decisions. Jozy’s contract was made necessary by those bad decisions and it had to be done.

2. Nobody on this board is arguing that Jozy was one of the best strikers in the world, on a level with Harry Kane and Ibrahimovic. However, he is a fantastic striker who tore apart this league in games when it really mattered, as documented by Ensco earlier in this thread. And he was highly effective in the Netherlands and for the USMNT. He has proven himself as an elite goal scorer, and failing to succeed at a club that is itself a complete failure (Sunderland) doesn’t change that. There are loads - loads - of “strikers” who have shown nowhere near his goal scoring form, particularly in games that really matter in which clubs play very cautiously to limit chances. He deserves respect for that level of skill, which he has demonstrated again and again.
1. I’m not sure there was any scenario that made the Jozy contract necessary. He shouldn’t have gotten extension unless it was TAM. Point blank. His first contract was the perfect length as illustrated by his performances (or non-performances) from 2020 onward. They should have let him ride out that deal.

2. Jozy is absolutely elite in MLS/Netherlands. No argument there. And absolutely a dude that steps up to the occasion. Man’s a baller. I just wish he wasn’t always on the treatment table as a DP in a league where that can really fuck you.

[Bushmancan]

If you dont love Jozy, his contract is hard to take…. He needs a team around him but he was a beast and a clutch performer. If Vanney plays him to start the 2nd half, we win MLS cup in 2019. That was the perfect theatre for him and I still cannot figure out, why not. We were screaming from the 3 level to get him on.

btw… that was one of the most impressive TFC crowds I have been a part of. We need to get back to the Cup.

[MightyDM]

If you dont love Jozy, his contract is hard to take…. He needs a team around him but he was a beast and a clutch performer. If Vanney plays him to start the 2nd half, we win MLS cup in 2019. That was the perfect theatre for him and I still cannot figure out, why not. We were screaming from the 3 level to get him on.

btw… that was one of the most impressive TFC crowds I have been a part of. We need to get back to the Cup.

Totally agreed. On both points

[Ultra & Proud]

If Vanney plays him to start the 2nd half, we win MLS cup in 2019. That was the perfect theatre for him and I still cannot figure out, why not. We were screaming from the 3 level to get him on.
Vanney probably didn't think Jozy had 45+ minutes on that carpet in him.

[Bushmancan]

In all honestly, and to put it bluntly - who cares. He goes in a 0-0 it is different, it works more to our game than extending the field and attacking because we are 1 down. I know hindsight is 20/20 but if he blows a tire, you still have two subs left and the great Mullinho on the bench…LOL. In that situation, Jozy is the man, say what you want any other time, but right there, right then i want Jozy and Poz feeding him.

[JoesphNdo]

Have to assume that decision was entirely fitness, no way he sits on Jozy in that game when the game was crying out for him. He maybe simply had a half hour tops with him, and don't forget extra time was a real possibility. I mean put it this way, no way Vanney saw that game and didn't reach the same conclusion at half time as everyone else yet he still chose not to act on it. He's either completely incompetent or has access to information that we don't and the latter is by far the simplest explanation

[ensco]

So it's February 1, and Jozy didn’t find a deal in Europe or Mexico. So that means he is staying in MLS.

At this point I am guessing teams just wait for the buyout, then SKC or whoever signs him the next day. (lots or Twitter talk that he will be the Pulido replacement)

Feels like they may as well just buy him out now, and be done with it. Can't imagine any sort of deal coming together or it going any other way. Although I suppose doing that just helps a rival, so maybe it's gotta be Feb 26.

Love him or hate him, you watch… he will score 4 goals in his first three games and get a USMNT call for the last window.


He wouldn't be in match shape by March. He might score 4 in 3 in his first matches but probably not until May.

I see it more like, if he is on the field, he can score. Like he did on that last goal against Montreal he scored for us vs Montreal, where he didn't look very mobile in that game.

The striker problem is a real crisis for the US. I mean Junior Hoilett would be going 90 right now for the US if he were American, it's not sustainable that the US is getting less from its first choice number 9 than Canada would from its third choice player.

The US have a tough final window, with away games at Mexico and CR. It's not the place for Zardes or an 18 year old striker, it has got to be on Berhalter's mind.

With the big roster size, it can make sense even if you only get a game out of him before he blows a tire.

It's sort of a weird cross current, but I wonder if, as a result of the US results this past week, BB quietly does Jozy and Berhalter a solid here by resolving this now, so that Jozy can get going with a team, and Berhalter can actually then figure out if there is anything there..

[Canary10]

The thought that a healthy Jozy would really change the complexion of the US team admittedly crossed my mind on Sunday. If he were smart, he'd be getting in the shape of his life right now because it's on for him if he can. I agree with Ensco above: US is terrible up front.

[Oldtimer]

With the big roster size, it can make sense even if you only get a game out of him before he blows a tire.

It's sort of a weird cross current, but I wonder if, as a result of the US results this past week, BB quietly does Jozy and Berhalter a solid here by resolving this now, so that Jozy can get going with a team, and Berhalter can actually then figure out if there is anything there..

Problem is Jozy is almost certainly out of shape and would take weeks to get into form, even if he was bought out and signed with another team immediately.

Once in shape, I'm sure the US could use him, even if only for a couple of games.

If I'm Berhalter I wouldn't be afraid of the USMNT not qualifying, though, it's more about pride. They'll be in Qatar. Jozy could help with the pride part though, beating Mexico has to be up there. But I don't think he's ready to play.

If Jozy had been thinking of USMNT duty or even being better placed in the shop window he'd be training with TFC, but he isn't.

[Graeme]

If Jozy had been thinking of USMNT duty or even being better placed in the shop window he'd be training with TFC, but he isn't.

Why do we think this is his choice?

[jabbronies]

We all know Jozy takes months to get into shape.
He isn't playing for the US this or even the next window.

I don't see him even considering stepping into a match until End of March beginning of April.
We still need to release him and he still needs to find a club. He isn't training with anyone right now, which means he probably doing it on his own, which means he is probably over bulking and will get injured as soon as he steps on the pitch.

[Richard]

My prediction is he is retired at the end of this year. Zero chance he doesn't sustain an injury within the next 3 months, then it will just be more the same. Tired of this soap opera, let's all move on from this dark period.

[ensco]

We all know Jozy takes months to get into shape. We don't know this. He is injury prone, yes.
He isn't playing for the US this or even the next window. We don't know this. You don't know this.
I don't see him even considering stepping into a match until End of March beginning of April. Seems farfetched, he has gone 6 months since he last played.
We still need to release him and he still needs to find a club. Hey, a true fact.
He isn't training with anyone right now, which means he probably doing it on his own, which means he is probably over bulking and will get injured as soon as he steps on the pitch.We don't know any of this. You don't know any of his.

My comments in red, above.

I think people who really viscerally don't rate him should feel more sure that they have been heard. Believe me, you have made yourselves heard.

[ensco]

Why do we think this is his choice?

I think, if he wanted to train, they would probably let him. Just based on his relationship with MB.

I don't think players are paid for pre-season, so that is part of it.

But your question is valid. We don't know. They may have told him to stay home. (The same soap opera is currently going on with Dragic in the Raptors camp btw - nobody knows if he left the team or was sent home)

[OgtheDim]

IIRC, if he gets bought out, Jozy is a free agent. In theory, he can sign with any team anywhere the registration window is still open.

[ensco]

The other Jozy scenario we haven’t really talked about is the Frings scenario, ie some sort of insurance settlement. If he really can’t play anymore.

That could save us the buyout. Which would mean we could use it elsewhere.

[jabbronies]

My comments in red, above.

I think people who really viscerally don't rate him should feel more sure that they have been heard. Believe me, you have made yourselves heard.

[moderator edit]

You are right, we don't know Jozy's current situation health wise, but history seemed to have constantly repeated itself when it comes to his fitness over the past 3 years, what makes you think things have changed now?

Since you quoted me when you say "people viscerally don't rate him" I can only assume you are lumping me into that category.
I rate Jozy's skill and his ability to compete in MLS, - I just don't rate his health and fitness. And that's the issue. it's always been the issue.

The only time he's played a full season without major disruption due to injury was in 2017. Every other year he's missed significant time due to injury and recovery and takes longer and longer with each injury to ramp back up to speed.

I'm not going to quote anything you wrote in red because well, I don't agree with most of what you write on this board. Not even that we have differing opinions that I'm not open to listen to - I just think you are more interested in playing virtual FO than talking about footy.

So carry on with your open letters, but please keep me out of your reply's

[Auzzy]

^ Dearly beloved who are gathered here today,

This is why I'm happy this is outside of the current roster thread.

[ensco]

^It's kind of leaving me sad, upon reflection.

This thread, I think, should be morphing into a kind of appreciation thread, in terms of spirit (while acknowledging the injury history and the folly of the 2019 contract).

As it stands, it seems, trying to deliver or defend a “glass half full” type of “eulogy” gets both Jozy and the poster pretty pointed clap backs.

[Bushmancan]

^ Lots of time for that.... let's just wait for news.

[MightyDM]

There are lots of people who have accused Jozy of being lazy, despite all the evidence to the contrary ie him scoring critical goals for us after getting hurt (ankle, contact injury) and the fact that he played and trained for months on an ankle so bad that he had to have surgery. its grossly unfair and there is no evidence to back it up.

As for post injury recovery, and non presence at training camp, I continue to find it weird. BB specifically pointed out that Seba has kept himself very fit but that it will take time to get him to the level needed for games (I am certain this was the issue with Jozy in 2020 because of COVID and 2021 because of Chris Armas). If Jozy is to keep playing and if Toronto has any hope of getting something for him, he needs to be match fit. Not just fit, match fit. It makes no sense that he isnt here unless he didnt really recover from the surgery and has to retire.

[jloome]

There are lots of people who have accused Jozy of being lazy, despite all the evidence to the contrary ie him scoring critical goals for us after getting hurt (ankle, contact injury) and the fact that he played and trained for months on an ankle so bad that he had to have surgery. its grossly unfair and there is no evidence to back it up.

As for post injury recovery, and non presence at training camp, I continue to find it weird. BB specifically pointed out that Seba has kept himself very fit but that it will take time to get him to the level needed for games (I am certain this was the issue with Jozy in 2020 because of COVID and 2021 because of Chris Armas). If Jozy is to keep playing and if Toronto has any hope of getting something for him, he needs to be match fit. Not just fit, match fit. It makes no sense that he isnt here unless he didnt really recover from the surgery and has to retire.

I don't think that's it, dude. They've already told him he's not welcome back and that they're going to buy him out. But he can't go train with another team until that happens; they don't want to pay out both years, he figures he's due both, and if they're not roster compliant by the start of the season, he'll win by the clock running out.

So, it's probably over, in the most graceless form possible unfortunately. I hate to say it, but that's really the only scenario that would seem to currently fit what's happening.

[Thrillos]

I don't think that's it, dude. They've already told him he's not welcome back and that they're going to buy him out. But he can't go train with another team until that happens; they don't want to pay out both years, he figures he's due both, and if they're not roster compliant by the start of the season, he'll win by the clock running out.

So, it's probably over, in the most graceless form possible unfortunately. I hate to say it, but that's really the only scenario that would seem to currently fit what's happening.

I agree with this scenario, but do we know know that they told him he is not welcome back? Or is that just the thinking given he isn’t in preseason? Curious if I missed something.

I still think he could play this season for us. I think if he was on the field for the US against Canada he pots at least one, maybe two goals with the pressure into our box they created. In spirit of the purpose of this thread, when he plays, he is still a force to be reckoned with on the field.

[jloome]

I agree with this scenario, but do we know know that they told him he is not welcome back? Or is that just the thinking given he isn’t in preseason? Curious if I missed something.

I still think he could play this season for us. I think if he was on the field for the US against Canada he pots at least one, maybe two goals with the pressure into our box they created. In spirit of the purpose of this thread, when he plays, he is still a force to be reckoned with on the field.

Yeah, good points. We don't know it, but it seems either he or they don't want him there... or he'd be there. He simply can't keep in game shape training alone at home. If he wasn't frozen out, he would be in camp.

I still think he has enough in him to be dangerous for us. His starts were pretty limited last year but he still scored four goals late in the season, including a couple of important ones. I think realistically he's more a 60th minute danger man now, but I also think BB is savvy enough to know he could do a job. So if he isn't there despite that, it's because they don't want him or he won't report.

From everything I know of how much he loves Toronto (and people who had decent inside dope on the guy from 2017, 2018 make it clear the guy bleeds red) he would be there if he was allowed to be. He didn't think he was done last year, he thought after the foot surgery he could get back to work.

But there are strong political elements at play. People can't underestimate how close the Bradleys are to Chris Armas and the whole crew that Bob coached at Chicago. MB considers Armas like an older brother.

The Bradleys are also both, from description, very serious men even away from the pitch, and they respect chain of command. As soon as he was suspended, whether justified or not (it really wasn't, he called Armas an idiot for not playing two strikers, but that's a concerned player saying too much and deserving a benching), he was probably done with the team for good.

[Thrillos]

Yeah, good points. We don't know it, but it seems either he or they don't want him there... or he'd be there. He simply can't keep in game shape training alone at home. If he wasn't frozen out, he would be in camp.

I still think he has enough in him to be dangerous for us. His starts were pretty limited last year but he still scored four goals late in the season, including a couple of important ones. I think realistically he's more a 60th minute danger man now, but I also think BB is savvy enough to know he could do a job. So if he isn't there despite that, it's because they don't want him or he won't report.

From everything I know of how much he loves Toronto (and people who had decent inside dope on the guy from 2017, 2018 make it clear the guy bleeds red) he would be there if he was allowed to be. He didn't think he was done last year, he thought after the foot surgery he could get back to work.

But there are strong political elements at play. People can't underestimate how close the Bradleys are to Chris Armas and the whole crew that Bob coached at Chicago. MB considers Armas like an older brother.

The Bradleys are also both, from description, very serious men even away from the pitch, and they respect chain of command. As soon as he was suspended, whether justified or not (it really wasn't, he called Armas an idiot for not playing two strikers, but that's a concerned player saying too much and deserving a benching), he was probably done with the team for good.

Gotcha. All that makes sense. Forgot about the history the Bradley’s and Armas have.

Now that the glory days of the USMT are done for Jozy and Michael, their relationship may have dwindled with it.

True that it is hard to take him absent from camp any other way than he is out, no matter what. It just seems like such a poor decision from both sides. It diminishes any “value” other teams may perceive of Jozy and it diminishes his ability to stay in shape and jump into a new team. Just don’t get it.

[jloome]

Gotcha. All that makes sense. Forgot about the history the Bradley’s and Armas have.

Now that the glory days of the USMT are done for Jozy and Michael, their relationship may have dwindled with it.

True that it is hard to take him absent from camp any other way than he is out, no matter what. It just seems like such a poor decision from both sides. It diminishes any “value” other teams may perceive of Jozy and it diminishes his ability to stay in shape and jump into a new team. Just don’t get it.

Now that it appears he might be going to new england, it's possible he's already training there. He gets to keep playing, he gets a shot at titles, and Arena can use him as a strong sub behind Bou and Buksa, as he intends to use Omar.

Tough to see him go there, though.

[Oldtimer]

Jozy playing on turf for the Revs does seem like a way to be out 2/3 of the season. I'm sure he'll still knock in the goals when he's healthy, but how often will that be?

[ensco]

So there it is. Three years, that is interesting. Cap hit management, whatever, that is a major commitment from a team that already had one of the best striker setups in MLS. That surprises me more than seeing him move to play on turf.

There is certainly risk in this but “Arena is making an obvious mistake” regarding injury risk or turf or whatever, wouldn’t be my take. We had issues with the grass and with our medical setup here for all the time he was here. (We may well still do.) We don’t really know what his medical situation is, and there is a pretty good chance that Arena has a better handle on that than we do.

Jozy is a generational talent and a warrior, albeit snakebit with injuries. I really think he is a special player. I wish him well in any game in which TFC or Canada is not involved… and especially against Montreal (you know he will never stop scoring on them)

It was time for him to go but I wish this had ended differently.

Good night all.

[Auzzy]

So there it is. Three years, that is interesting. Cap hit management, whatever, that is a major commitment from a team that already had one of the best striker setups in MLS. That surprises me more than seeing him move to play on turf.

There is certainly risk in this but “Arena is making an obvious mistake” regarding injury risk or turf or whatever, wouldn’t be my take. We had issues with the grass and with our medical setup here for all the time he was here. (We may well still do.) We don’t really know what his medical situation is, and there is a pretty good chance that Arena has a better handle on that than we do.

Jozy is a generational talent and a warrior, albeit snakebit with injuries. I really think he is a special player. I wish him well in any game in which TFC or Canada is not involved… and especially against Montreal (you know he will never stop scoring on them)

It was time for him to go but I wish this had ended differently.

Good night all.

I'm really surprised about the 3-year deal, but yes that lets the Revs commit less cap space and allocation money to Jozy at the start of the contract. Perhaps Jozy will mostly be utilized as a sub in away games on grass? ;)

One way or another, we can bet that some Jozy-related posts from this and other threads will re-appear as quotes in future posts, now that he's staying in the league!

[OgtheDim]

My first thought when it turned about to be NER was to remember this incident

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/toronto-fc-s-jozy-altidore-exits-new-england-revolution-match-early-hamstring-in


The thing they don't show in this video is Jozy slamming his water bottle against a wall on his way out.

[ensco]

I'm really surprised about the 3-year deal, but yes that lets the Revs commit less cap space and allocation money to Jozy at the start of the contract. Perhaps Jozy will mostly be utilized as a sub in away games on grass? ;)


I think the sub part is probably really meaningful. Makes me wonder if part of the medical science underlying the signing is that the risk here is more manageable if all he ever does is go, say, 45 minutes max. That 2019 injury before the playoffs, I remember he got that in the 70th or 75th minute of the last regular season game.

The grass vs turf part, I instinctively feel what everyone else does. But it has to be acknowledged that better older players have had a lot of longevity and success in Portland, Seattle, Atlanta…

[ensco]

One way or another, we can bet that some Jozy-related posts from this and other threads will re-appear as quotes in future posts, now that he's staying in the league!

Not by me. We all get it wrong a lot. I thought it was insane to believe TFC were serious about Insigne. Most of us are only right about half the time. Besides, Jozy really could just flame out in NE.

What I really didn’t like, and don’t like, are the Jozy posts that I believe were insulting to him, shot through with malice. I hope that stops now.

[Mr. Inbetween]

So there it is. Three years, that is interesting. Cap hit management, whatever, that is a major commitment from a team that already had one of the best striker setups in MLS. That surprises me more than seeing him move to play on turf.

There is certainly risk in this but “Arena is making an obvious mistake” regarding injury risk or turf or whatever, wouldn’t be my take. We had issues with the grass and with our medical setup here for all the time he was here. (We may well still do.) We don’t really know what his medical situation is, and there is a pretty good chance that Arena has a better handle on that than we do.

Jozy is a generational talent and a warrior, albeit snakebit with injuries. I really think he is a special player. I wish him well in any game in which TFC or Canada is not involved… and especially against Montreal (you know he will never stop scoring on them)

It was time for him to go but I wish this had ended differently.

Good night all.

A possible tell tale sign, likely indicative or indicting... and the would be final nail in that coffin; TFC has had a med-staff problem.

[Richard]

Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.

[Bushmancan]

Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.


I don't think we have seen any terms yet.... or at least i haven't seen them.

[Canary10]

Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.

Everything I've seen is that the deal is contingent on the TFC buyout. So no.

[noxx98]

Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.
I posted this in the roster thread, but it's fitting here too. ESPN says we're only responsible for the portion of the contract that NER isn't paying. So, assuming Jozy's compensation remains at $3.6M and they pay him $1M this season, we are only on the hook for $2.6M. None of which goes against are salary budget as we're using the buyout.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/4585453/jozy-altidore-set-to-join-new-england-revolution-sources

[Yuushalinsky]

Now that he's gone, I'll always remember him for his highs.

[Gringo Starr]

It was time and needed to happen, I hate that he will be a Rev but I really hope most of all that he has a good run, free of controversy and gets to finish his career on a positive note.

Too bad it couldn't stay 2017 forever

[Oldtimer]

I posted this in the roster thread, but it's fitting here too. ESPN says we're only responsible for the portion of the contract that NER isn't paying. So, assuming Jozy's compensation remains at $3.6M and they pay him $1M this season, we are only on the hook for $2.6M. None of which goes against are salary budget as we're using the buyout.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/4585453/jozy-altidore-set-to-join-new-england-revolution-sources

Zero effect on the cap but helps pay for Insigne (MLSE's portion).

[ensco]

Zero effect on the cap but helps pay for Insigne (MLSE's portion).

I am glad these details are out, because it means nobody was disrespecting anybody. Either way. Everyone was quietly working towards a reasonable outcome.

Sometimes silence means, we just don’t know.

[FootBallAZ]

I don't think we have seen any terms yet.... or at least i haven't seen them.



Athletic reported 3 years

[MightyDM]

Not by me. We all get it wrong a lot. I thought it was insane to believe TFC were serious about Insigne. Most of us are only right about half the time. Besides, Jozy really could just flame out in NE.

What I really didn’t like, and don’t like, are the Jozy posts that I believe were insulting to him, shot through with malice. I hope that stops now.

Amen.

[notthesun]

Now that he's gone, I'll always remember him for his highs.

For sure. He was easily the best player in MLS in consecutive playoffs in 2016 and 2017. A monster in big games and big moments. I've never shook off the feeling that he would've done something with those last 10 minutes when he had to come off injured in the CCL final.

[ensco]

I missed this yesterday…

There was competition. SKC was seriously in on him also.

https://twitter.com/jeffreycarlisle/status/1489663148210589698?s=21

[ensco]

Jozy's comments from the NE presser about the problems with TFC starting in 2020 are interesting to me.

Recall that MLS did not have language that protected it during the pandemic, it owed full salaries even when games weren’t played, and it locked the players out to “fix” that. This involved threatening to or actually taking away the players' health coverage. It was really ugly.

I thought the league's handling of the whole thing was reprehensible (not arguing there wasn’t a big problem that needed to be addressed) and thought the whole bubble thing was wrong too, they endangered the players with that, and I personally chose not to watch a single game after the pandemic started (other than the TFC playoff game). Everything about what happened seemed morally wrong (to me). I didn’t post here for months.

I will be interested to learn what Jozy is talking about exactly. I never saw it as a TFC problem, I thought it was a league wide thing. But I can imagine Curtis, a product of the league office then and always, handling these issues badly, given what we know about how he handled the tough situations that we do know about.

Re Jozy's departure: I think BB just decided to move on from every player that wasn’t 100% committed, just like he said, Jozy just had too much scar tissue, and BB clearly has carte blanche to clean up the Manning/Curtis errors, no matter what it costs (and this one cost an absolute ton!)

[jloome]

He cited a difference in moral direction. He cited the boycott game that we played against Montreal as an example, saying TFC went back on its agreement with Montreal and Thierry Henry to respect it and play the game later, and that it was "four or five" things like that in recent years that changed his sentiment towards the club.

Also said that stuff didn't happen in the early years here.

Clash of personalities, basically. But he wore the decision to put off foot surgery for three years and that it was a bad move.

[MightyDM]

Jozy was fantastic. Here if you wan to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsCsSKgwF8

Key takeaway - he broke his ankle v Columbus but played on because winning for TFC was more important, not getting needed surgery until 3 years later.

Its time to put the "Jozy is lazy and thats why he gets hurt" crap to rest. He played on through an injury and (unwisely for him and for the club) didn't get surgery -IE he wanted it too much. A complicated guy indeed, an incredible goal scorer, and a legend at TFC. Enough.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Several takeaways already highlighted by others.
Mine... after watching it, I decided to instead also listen to the interview.
Around 14:30 Jozy talks about his role for Bruce and at NER.
At this point Jozy mentions his (TFC/MLS) contract; the buy out.
Is he offering insight about such workings?
IIUC, he seems to indicate/state that the contract carried over. Is this understanding correct or has he simply misspoken?
That even though he was bought out by TFC, the contract is not really or in its entirety voided/rewritten/renegotiated.
Is anyone able to elaborate on and explain this to me?
I suspect it may have to do with him moving/staying within the league; MLS franchisee business/contract structure.
Still, the contract not being voided/rewritten/renegotiated but carried over seems to be another odd MLS operations nuance.
Perhaps to be just noted or maybe further explored and discussed?

[ensco]

Jozy was fantastic. Here if you wan to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsCsSKgwF8

Key takeaway - he broke his ankle v Columbus but played on because winning for TFC was more important, not getting needed surgery until 3 years later.

Its time to put the "Jozy is lazy and thats why he gets hurt" crap to rest. He played on through an injury and (unwisely for him and for the club) didn't get surgery -IE he wanted it too much. A complicated guy indeed, an incredible goal scorer, and a legend at TFC. Enough.

Yeah right on.

There's been a couple of other strains of criticism of Jozy, which is that his injuries are because (1) he rehabs on his own and ignores team medical advice, and (2) he “over bulks up” or some such.

As to part 1, given the number of questions most everyone here had about our failings on the medical side, easy to understand. Besides, all stars in every sport do this.

Part 2, I found that just baseless, insulting and annoying. Bruce Arena just invested $5M, you think he thinks that for one second? Why wasn’t Jozy allowed to be unlucky? God that still makes me mad.

The guy was a lightening rod for criticism because he spoke his mind. It attracted all kinds of malicious innuendo. It was no way to treat a player of that stature.

[Canary10]

There are a lot of assumptions made on this board that injury and fitness are the same thing. They are related of course, but absolutely not the same thing. I know a lot of runners who are incredibly fit and would blow the pants off 99% of people, but are also often injured. With Jozy it was even worse because his size was equated with lack of fitness, when in fact his size and smarts in using it was what made him almost impossible to play against. And that damn video of him watching his wife work out has gotten way too much mileage in "proving" Jozy was lazy and didn't work on his fitness.

This is all to say, the above posts are bang on.

[jabbronies]

Yeah right on.

There's been a couple of other strains of criticism of Jozy, which is that his injuries are because (1) he rehabs on his own and ignores team medical advice, and (2) he “over bulks up” or some such.

As to part 1, given the number of questions most everyone here had about our failings on the medical side, easy to understand. Besides, all stars in every sport do this.

Part 2, I found that just baseless, insulting and annoying. Bruce Arena just invested $5M, you think he thinks that for one second? Why wasn’t Jozy allowed to be unlucky? God that still makes me mad.

The guy was a lightening rod for criticism because he spoke his mind. It attracted all kinds of malicious innuendo. It was no way to treat a player of that stature.

I don't understand why you find it insulting. It's not baseless at all. There is plenty of evidence to support that his size is one of the contributing factors to his repeated lower body muscle injuries. For some reason you refuse to even consider it. Probably because it's coming from me and you can't put your ego aside to even acknowledge it.

https://www.torontofc.ca/news/altidore-changes-diet-workout-entering-2016

Look at picture of him toward the end of 2016 and all of 2017 - his upper body is far leaner and even his movement on the field was far more explosive. he was carrying less weight. Compare that to late 2018, 2019, 2020, Especially after the trainer incident he started bulking up again:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2019/04/20/jozy-altidore-rips-toronto-fc-brass-over-banned-trainer.html

He's almost 20lbs heavier today (aprox 79kg) than he was in 2017 (aprox 72kg) - that's 20lbs of muscle. At an elite level, that amount of weight has major effects the body

Sure he had broken bone injury - but he's had plenty of muscle injury's in addition to that.

leaner Jozy = less injured Jozy. The two are related.

[ensco]

Hey bud, help me here. How do I answer given you posted this one page earlier?

Just having fun with you.

Serious point: I see you have been here a long time. I would say anyone with that kind of history has the right to a big opinion. I am certain we would agree on many things. Re your bolded bit, seriously, it’s not true. We will meet someday and get along.

Re why it’s insulting- I agree your view is maybe possible, but saying it as “fact” is really wrong and pretty unfair. Jozy has a weird physique. I just think other guys get injured a lot and don’t get near the stick he did, or get “blamed” for it. Re the weight stuff, I’d say nobody here really knows. I’d say Bruce Arena is providing 5 million reasons why you might be wrong.

I think you are wrong on this - that’s all. Not looking for a dust up, and you are not the only one who has said it.


[moderator edit]

You are right, we don't know Jozy's current situation health wise, but history seemed to have constantly repeated itself when it comes to his fitness over the past 3 years, what makes you think things have changed now?

Since you quoted me when you say "people viscerally don't rate him" I can only assume you are lumping me into that category.
I rate Jozy's skill and his ability to compete in MLS, - I just don't rate his health and fitness. And that's the issue. it's always been the issue.

The only time he's played a full season without major disruption due to injury was in 2017. Every other year he's missed significant time due to injury and recovery and takes longer and longer with each injury to ramp back up to speed.

I'm not going to quote anything you wrote in red because well, I don't agree with most of what you write on this board. Not even that we have differing opinions that I'm not open to listen to - I just think you are more interested in playing virtual FO than talking about footy.

So carry on with your open letters, but please keep me out of your reply's

[Bushmancan]

^Where are we meeting March 5th for that beer!! Outside on any patio ... I'm in. Don't care what the weather is.

[613reppingTFC]

Haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet. But just wondering if he knew he required surgery why would he put it off for so many years and play on it? He had the surgery done and he was out for what maybe 6 weeks and back on the field afterwards..why not just do it and get it over with when it happened rather than put yourself through that, especially knowing it could further ruin your career. Seems like an odd choice to put it off. I mean good on him for fighting through all of it and playing..but would he have been better off to do it right away and recover, obviously we wont know. But maybe we see him on the field more often now than the last few seasons because he has finally gotten the surgery done.

[jabbronies]

Hey bud, help me here. How do I answer given you posted this one page earlier?
Just having fun with you.
Serious point: I see you have been here a long time. I would say anyone with that kind of history has the right to a big opinion. I am certain we would agree on many things.
Re your bolded bit, seriously, it’s not true. We will meet someday and get along. I think you are wrong on this - that’s all. Not looking for a dust up, and you are not the only one who has said it.

Got it. I'm going to leave this one alone.



I agree your view is possible, but saying it as “fact” is really wrong and pretty unfair. Jozy has a weird physique. I just think other guys get injured a lot and don’t get near the stick he did, or get “blamed” for it. Re the weight stuff, I’d say nobody here really knows. I’d say Bruce Arena is providing 5 million reasons why you might be wrong.


I never said it was fact. I'm just suggesting that it is very likely and highly plausible reason why he keeps getting muscle injuries. These injuries don't happen "just because". They have very tangible reasons for happening. He's not a weak person. His body isn't fragile. he shouldn't be breaking down like this all the time. The guy is a tank. He's a physically fit and is one of the strongest guys in MLS.

I don't buy into the "he's lazy" narrative. He works hard. and you can see it in his physique. That doesn't come from being lazy. I just think he's one of those guys who overdoes it. He'll workout all day if he could and just keep getting bigger and bigger because he has that kind of drive in him. I've seen guys do this. They start off getting fit, then they get an adrenaline rush to keep going.
And I think he's one of those guys. He does it to a detriment to his ability to staying healthy while playing soccer.

You can be big and play soccer, you just have to ensure you are targeting the right parts of your body so that specific tendons and muscles have the support they need. I don't think he's in tune with that. Seba's trainer was. he understood Jozy and his body needs.

RE: Bruce providing $5 million reasons why I might be wrong? This, IMO, proves nothing. We don't know the full details of the contract - It's reported as a MAX TAM deal and There's a good chance TFC are paying a portion of this as part of the buyout. So he's not occupying a DP slot - which is the issue reasonable thinking people had with him. You don't pay DP money to a guy who only plays 1/2 a season. Bruce Arena got a deal on Jozy and he took it. he's smart for doing that.

Jozy being on NER vs TFC provide us with very different scenarios and hard to compare

Arena paid - whatever it was - because he felt he could keep Jozy healthy enough to contribute at the level most of know he can contribute at.
Arena has a good attack and doesn't need Jozy starting every game. TFC only had Jozy and needed him to start every game.
Arena isn't paying Jozy DP money, so not only does he have Jozy, but he still has 3 DP slots he can fill.

Anyways. That's my rant on this. You + some others seem hung up on a small group who think Jozy doesn't have the ability to be a game changer. When the real issue has always been the health of a player who is only able to play 1/2 a season and is occupying the most lucrative and coveted spot on the roster. everything else "lazy, not motivated, not good enough etc" are just emotional triggers.

[Richard]

Sports is littered with countless cases of managers thinking they have the solution to turn a player around.

If he miraculously ends up not being injured you have to wonder what sort quack medical professionals TFC is hiring. Who knows though, we will never get the full picture.

[Canary10]

Got it. I'm going to leave this one alone.



I never said it was fact. I'm just suggesting that it is very likely and highly plausible reason why he keeps getting muscle injuries. These injuries don't happen "just because". They have very tangible reasons for happening. He's not a weak person. His body isn't fragile. he shouldn't be breaking down like this all the time. The guy is a tank. He's a physically fit and is one of the strongest guys in MLS.

I don't buy into the "he's lazy" narrative. He works hard. and you can see it in his physique. That doesn't come from being lazy. I just think he's one of those guys who overdoes it. He'll workout all day if he could and just keep getting bigger and bigger because he has that kind of drive in him. I've seen guys do this. They start off getting fit, then they get an adrenaline rush to keep going.
And I think he's one of those guys. He does it to a detriment to his ability to staying healthy while playing soccer.

You can be big and play soccer, you just have to ensure you are targeting the right parts of your body so that specific tendons and muscles have the support they need. I don't think he's in tune with that. Seba's trainer was. he understood Jozy and his body needs.

RE: Bruce providing $5 million reasons why I might be wrong? This, IMO, proves nothing. We don't know the full details of the contract - It's reported as a MAX TAM deal and There's a good chance TFC are paying a portion of this as part of the buyout. So he's not occupying a DP slot - which is the issue reasonable thinking people had with him. You don't pay DP money to a guy who only plays 1/2 a season. Bruce Arena got a deal on Jozy and he took it. he's smart for doing that.

Jozy being on NER vs TFC provide us with very different scenarios and hard to compare

Arena paid - whatever it was - because he felt he could keep Jozy healthy enough to contribute at the level most of know he can contribute at.
Arena has a good attack and doesn't need Jozy starting every game. TFC only had Jozy and needed him to start every game.
Arena isn't paying Jozy DP money, so not only does he have Jozy, but he still has 3 DP slots he can fill.

Anyways. That's my rant on this. You + some others seem hung up on a small group who think Jozy doesn't have the ability to be a game changer. When the real issue has always been the health of a player who is only able to play 1/2 a season and is occupying the most lucrative and coveted spot on the roster. everything else "lazy, not motivated, not good enough etc" are just emotional triggers.

He needs Adama Traore's trainer!

[jabbronies]

He needs Adama Traore's trainer!

My exact thoughts. Apparently he doesn't do weights.

[MightyDM]

Got it. I'm going to leave this one alone.



I never said it was fact. I'm just suggesting that it is very likely and highly plausible reason why he keeps getting muscle injuries. These injuries don't happen "just because". They have very tangible reasons for happening. He's not a weak person. His body isn't fragile. he shouldn't be breaking down like this all the time. The guy is a tank. He's a physically fit and is one of the strongest guys in MLS.

I don't buy into the "he's lazy" narrative. He works hard. and you can see it in his physique. That doesn't come from being lazy. I just think he's one of those guys who overdoes it. He'll workout all day if he could and just keep getting bigger and bigger because he has that kind of drive in him. I've seen guys do this. They start off getting fit, then they get an adrenaline rush to keep going.
And I think he's one of those guys. He does it to a detriment to his ability to staying healthy while playing soccer.

You can be big and play soccer, you just have to ensure you are targeting the right parts of your body so that specific tendons and muscles have the support they need. I don't think he's in tune with that. Seba's trainer was. he understood Jozy and his body needs.

RE: Bruce providing $5 million reasons why I might be wrong? This, IMO, proves nothing. We don't know the full details of the contract - It's reported as a MAX TAM deal and There's a good chance TFC are paying a portion of this as part of the buyout. So he's not occupying a DP slot - which is the issue reasonable thinking people had with him. You don't pay DP money to a guy who only plays 1/2 a season. Bruce Arena got a deal on Jozy and he took it. he's smart for doing that.

Jozy being on NER vs TFC provide us with very different scenarios and hard to compare

Arena paid - whatever it was - because he felt he could keep Jozy healthy enough to contribute at the level most of know he can contribute at.
Arena has a good attack and doesn't need Jozy starting every game. TFC only had Jozy and needed him to start every game.
Arena isn't paying Jozy DP money, so not only does he have Jozy, but he still has 3 DP slots he can fill.

Anyways. That's my rant on this. You + some others seem hung up on a small group who think Jozy doesn't have the ability to be a game changer. When the real issue has always been the health of a player who is only able to play 1/2 a season and is occupying the most lucrative and coveted spot on the roster. everything else "lazy, not motivated, not good enough etc" are just emotional triggers.

I’m hung up on the group who constantly trash him and say he is lazy etc. You aren’t part of that but given his service to this club I respond every time, because there is no evidence of it and it’s done extremely disrespectfully.

Your point about his bulking up is not expressed that way (in fact you acknowledge that overtraining is a result of too much intensity, the exact opposite) and is done respectfully. We may find out more in the Future about whether you are right.

I do disagree with you about his contract though. TFC had no choice whatsoever but to resign him when they did. That it turned out problematic is irrelevant. But they put themselves in that position with their terrible mismanagement of the Seba and VV situations.

[MightyDM]

Sports is littered with countless cases of managers thinking they have the solution to turn a player around.

If he miraculously ends up not being injured you have to wonder what sort quack medical professionals TFC is hiring. Who knows though, we will never get the full picture.

True. But it is Bruce Arena and he knows Jozy well.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Sports is littered with countless cases of managers thinking they have the solution to turn a player around.

If he miraculously ends up not being injured you have to wonder what sort quack medical professionals TFC is hiring. Who knows though, we will never get the full picture.

Yes, but with our luck... every so often...
Ahem, Richie Laryea?

[Richard]

Yes, but with our luck... every so often...
Ahem, Richie Laryea?

Best of luck to him, just not against us.

:scarf: