Jerkoff Simmons at it again...

[tfcleeds]

Can't believe the soccer fools were anti-Argo protesting at BMO Field, as if the stadium belonged to them. The stadium was built with taxpayers money. The Argos, having been around forever, are as deserving of occupying that stadium as anyone.

OK, I know like most other people on this board, I promised I wouldn't let Simmons get under my skin anymore, but what makes me mad here is that he is basically using the same argument that a letter-writer yesterday used, that simply because the Argos have been around way longer than TFC, they deserve to be at BMO.

And Steve, the protest wasn't anti-Argos. It was a protest to keep BMO soccer-specific. But I wouldn't expect you to know the difference. Idiot.

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2008/07/27/6276701-sun.html

[GabrielHurl]

he's got one of those faces you want to hit - repeatedly

http://slam.canoe.ca/2002GamesColumnistsImages/simmons2.gif

[Oblio2]

Simmons=Douche

[jabbronies]

And Steve, the protest wasn't anti-Argos. It was a protest to keep BMO soccer-specific. But I wouldn't expect you to know the difference. Idiot.


Another very poor statement from an un-informed reporter

[toemoss]

Simmons=Douche

i would even include (douche) BAG. what a dick.

[rocker]

the argos are deserving of staying in the stadium that was already built for them with taxpayer money: Skydome.

I guess 600 million in taxpayer money wasn't enough for them ;)

sigh.. can you imagine the soccer stadium you could build now for 600 million..

[TFC FAN72]

he's got one of those faces you want to hit - repeatedly

http://slam.canoe.ca/2002GamesColumnistsImages/simmons2.gif


He is on record as saying that it is appalling that TFC is outdrawing Argos and for that he has issues dealing with that fact.

[Mango Kid]

He is on record as saying that it is appalling that TFC is outdrawing Argos and for that he has issues dealing with that fact.

TFC is not outdrawing the Argos - the Argos have pulled 30k and 28k for their two home games so far.

http://www.argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2008/7

[profit89]

as i said before, i hope the cfl folds so like that they can never threaten to move in

[profit89]

http://www.forum-for-football.com/football-babes/picture.php?img=0108g.jpg&show=full

[TFC FAN72]

TFC is not outdrawing the Argos - the Argos have pulled 30k and 28k for their two home games so far.

http://www.argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2008/7


Well maybe he is talking about season ticket holders/ merchandise, but I have read that he thinks we should support the Argos more in the same way we do TFC.

As far as crowds go, good for the Argos for drawing as much, but with Buffalo coming into town for a few home games I am afraid the Argos are going to become an afterthought.

[tfcleeds]

Simmons is known to be very in favour of the idea of the NFL coming to Toronto. I'm surprised he is so short-sighted, and can't realize that a permanent NFL franchise in Toronto would be the death knell of the Argos.

[MFBODD]

Well maybe he is talking about season ticket holders/ merchandise, but I have read that he thinks we should support the Argos more in the same way we do TFC.

As far as crowds go, good for the Argos for drawing as much, but with Buffalo coming into town for a few home games I am afraid the Argos are going to become an afterthought.

I really don't think the Argos have to worry about the Bills right away. I mean, they should be very concerned, but the Bills are only playing here once or twice per year over the next 5 and the tickets are crazy expensive.

The Argos draw well and the TV ratings are healthy. This is pretty much the same story for the entire CFL right now.

Really, I don't get why the Argos would want to move to BMO. I know they want an atmosphere much like Montreal has, but it's not that bad at Skydome right now. They get good crowds, they have a crazy lease deal + concession take, they don't have to worry about people not showing up if the weather blows, Skydome is easy to get to via transit. I don't get it...

I am not a fan of clubs from various sports sharing a venue. Sport specific venues are always much better. Why don't they just slap a track around the pitch while they're at it...

[TFC FAN72]

I really don't think the Argos have to worry about the Bills right away. I mean, they should be very concerned, but the Bills are only playing here once or twice per year over the next 5 and the tickets are crazy expensive.

The Argos draw well and the TV ratings are healthy. This is pretty much the same story for the entire CFL right now.

Really, I don't get why the Argos would want to move to BMO. I know they want an atmosphere much like Montreal has, but it's not that bad at Skydome right now. They get good crowds, they have a crazy lease deal + concession take, they don't have to worry about people not showing up if the weather blows, Skydome is easy to get to via transit. I don't get it...

I am not a fan of clubs from various sports sharing a venue. Sport specific venues are always much better. Why don't they just slap a track around the pitch while they're at it...

Going to have to agree with with your post for the most part. When the Leafs/ Raptors deal was setup, I would it would be a mistake because for as long as anyone can remember, Maple Leaf Gardens was a Hockey venue first and was only used for concerts and circus.

Now with them sharing the facilities, the ice is horrible and players are at risk all the time of getting injured.

As far as knowing about the Argos, to be honest the only Football I follow really is the one played with FEET.:p

[RealG-TFC]

this is really getting annoying!

[GuelphStorm2007]

I personally cant see the Argos leaving the Skydome. especially with there lease agreement etc. And more importantly The Skydome people would be crazy to lose a tennant.

[SLBuu]

did he forget that there was a deal to make a stadium for both teams at York which the Argos backed out of. Hence having the taxpayers ante up cash to make the NEW SSS at the the ex.

STUPID CUNTS!!!!!!

[egoodwin]

what a douche, he can't even come up with his own arguments, he stole the whole idea of that part of the article from the idiot I mean letter of the day yesterday

And according to his logic, the Argos have just as much right to play at Glen Abbey or where that tennis tournament is happening right now

If Argos really want a waterfront stadium that is intimate, they should build one where the old Lakeview Generating station was in Mississauga, there are already talks of turning it into green space with possibly an aquarium or stadium... the Argos already practice in Mississauga, why don't they just build the stadium there...

Another thing that I don't get, is why is a paper that is "the Official newspaper of Toronto FC" allowing such anti-TFC smut being published? You can't whore TFC to increase your profile on one hand then go publish bullshit against TFC on the other

[Pachuco]

BMO field was not entirely buit with tax payer's money. MLSE has $ invested as well. This guy is such a moron.

[RealG-TFC]

Since Cricket was the first official sport of Canada maybe we should call the Rogers Centre the Rogers Cricket Ground. :noidea:

[SLBuu]

does anyone remember how much it cost to build the stadium?

[James Oliphant]

My response:

//

“Can't believe the soccer fools...”

Name-calling will get you everywhere.

“...were anti-Argo protesting at BMO Field”

Anti-Argo-occupation, not anti-Argo. We could care less about the team...we care more about the stadium.

“...as if the stadium belonged to them.”

It is called the National Soccer Stadium for a reason.

“ The stadium was built with taxpayers money.”

Kinda like the SkyD....err, Rogers Centre.

“ The Argos, having been around forever...”

...and having never once built their own stadium...

“ are as deserving of occupying that stadium as anyone.”

Well, this is where you really lose me. Because the Argos had their chance.

The stadium, as I’m sure you well-know and simply choose to gloss over, was originally planned for the campus of York University and designed as a multi-purpose facility, capable of supporting CFL football with rolling stands in the north and south ends. Those stands would be pushed back to allow for the extra length required by the CFL.

The Argos, by withdrawing from the York U project because of Uncle Ted offer-they-couldn't-refuse, cost the university and the CSA a significant amount of money and also put our city’s attempts to host the finals of the 2007 FIFA U-20 World Cup, one of the largest sporting events in the world, in serious jeopardy.

The Argos had their chance to be involved in this taxpayer-funded project. It was another opportunity for this franchise to put in little of the money and none of the effort involved in building a stadium for themselves. They’re this city’s sporting squatters.

But you know all this, right? I mean, that’s your job as a Toronto sports journalist - to be familiar with the comings-and-goings of this city’s sporting organizations. Why, then, do you choose to omit these facts in the interest of a more controversial read? I’m sorry, Steve, but that’s the antithesis of journalism...it makes you the Ann Coulter of the Toronto sport media.

And for the record, the stadium does belong to me. As a Toronto resident and a season ticket holder for Toronto FC, I’ve paid four times over for the construction and operation of BMO Field (municipally, provincially, federally and privately). I have as much right to speak against the Argos moving into my stadium as anyone else.

How dare you insist otherwise.

Sincerely,
James Oliphant
joliphant@sympatico.ca

//

And yes, I didn't use my typical email address (james@gotorontofc.com), but that's only because my site's down at the moment due to an ongoing dispute with the hosting company.

[RealG-TFC]

does anyone remember how much it cost to build the stadium?

BMO? 70 million.

Skydome, 600 0r 500 million.

[SLBuu]

and how much would the argos have to spend to renovate BMO?

[James Oliphant]

does anyone remember how much it cost to build the stadium?

$69 million

[RealG-TFC]

BTW, wasn't it BECAUSE of the Argos the SkyDome was built?


A cold, rain-soaked Grey Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/70th_Grey_Cup) game in November 1982, held at the outdoor Exhibition Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Stadium), spurred the process of looking for a new stadium. The game was tormented by cold weather and rains, the washrooms overflowed, and spectators were exposed to the harsh weather. In attendance was Ontario Premier Bill Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Davis), and the misery of that day was seen by over 7,862,000 television viewers in Canada (at the time the largest TV audience ever in Canada [7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyDome#cite_note-6)). The following day, at a rally at Toronto City Hall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_City_Hall), tens of thousands of people who were there to see the Grey Cup winners began to chant, "We want a dome! We want a dome!" So too did others who began to discuss the possibility of an all-purpose, all-weather stadium. (As a point of interest, the 1983 Grey Cup Game was played at the newly opened BC Place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place) domed stadium in Vancouver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver%2C_British_Columbia)).[c (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)

[James Oliphant]

BTW, wasn't it BECAUSE of the Argos the SkyDome was built?

Yes and no...SkyDome was seen first-and-foremost as the home of the Blue Jays. Exhibition Stadium worked better for the Argos than it did the Jays, simply because of the arrangement of the grandstands. Remember that the Argos were squatting at the Ex some 20 years before the Blue Jays existed....the stadium was not designed with baseball in mind at all. Which is why some seats in the outfield were some 800 feet from home plate...double the distance needed to hit a home-run to straight-away centre field.

[RealG-TFC]

This what the Argos should do. BNuild a stadium like Bright House Networks Stadium in Florida. They should build it in the portlands area because of the waterfront/revitalization plans which will make it into a more hospitable place and it's close to downtown. Hell, if we get backing from Ottawa for the PanAm games, then you can get the feds to pay for it!

The cost of this was 54 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_House_Networks_Stadium

http://willbale.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/stadium-rengering.jpg

[redcard]

[quote=MFBODD;107404]
The Argos draw well and the TV ratings are healthy. This is pretty much the same story for the entire CFL right now.

Really, I don't get why the Argos would want to move to BMO. I know they want an atmosphere much like Montreal has, but it's not that bad at Skydome right now. They get good crowds, they have a crazy lease deal + concession take, they don't have to worry about people not showing up if the weather blows, Skydome is easy to get to via transit. I don't get it...

quote]

the argos have sold a lot of season tickets simply because there holders had first dibs on bills tickets...otherwise i dont think they would be selling more than 20K tickets...

funny thing is they left a outdoor stadium and moved into a domed stadium, because the team and there fans are a bunch of pussies that couldnt handle the inclement weather!!!

the more i think about it, the more i feel they will not leave the dome, they have to put up the money for demolition(south end) then expansion of BMO, those costs will rise as time passes on, and they still have a few years left on there lease a the dome.

[TFC07]

http://www.forum-for-football.com/football-babes/picture.php?img=0108g.jpg&show=full

I don't what that got to do with this thread, but DAMN!

[James Oliphant]

the argos have sold a lot of season tickets simply because there holders had first dibs on bills tickets...otherwise i dont think they would be selling more than 20K tickets...

Well, you're wrong...the Argos' average attendance has been in the 28-30k range for years. In 2005, they averaged over 30k per game. Ditto 2006, and again 2007.

To put it in perspective, they have the highest average attendance of any sports franchise in this city.

[TFC07]

Well, you're wrong...the Argos' average attendance has been in the 28-30k range for years. In 2005, they averaged over 30k per game. Ditto 2006, and again 2007.

To put it in perspective, they have the highest average attendance of any sports franchise in this city.

Of course, since they have 50,000 seats available to fans to come in watch their games. Just imagine if the Leafs had that many seats available. I am sure they'll have more 30,000 per game.

I personally believe TFC can average 30,000 per game as well.

[DVS]

[quote=MFBODD;107404]

the argos have sold a lot of season tickets simply because there holders had first dibs on bills tickets...otherwise i dont think they would be selling more than 20K tickets...

.


Sorry I disagree with this comment. The Argo's didnt' get 20k in seasons tickets just because of the whole "get argo seasons and be first on the list" concept. Most if not close to 99.9% of at those seasons were perchased not because of the "Bills Deal". The fact is Teddy is still trying to sell the expensive seats of the Bills games giving out new deals. I also spoken to about 10 people who entered the Bills Lottery and they all won hehe.

One thing I'll applaud the present Argo owners is that they really do a good job in supporting the team and the community as well.

For the discussion of the Argos to BMO well I don't even wanna debate it because the whole entire situation is fucked up if you ask em

[James Oliphant]

TFC07 (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=54): So do I...but the point was that redcard thinks the Argos' attendance is based on the possibility of Bills tickets. In fact, that's not the case.

[Kickit09]

does anyone else feel like kicking this guys teeth out? in the very first sentence where he calls us all "soccer fools" he shows his inbred biased hate for the sport. he can write whatever he wants, but he better be careful with the insults. Insults lead to injuries, better watch his back from now on.

[James Oliphant]

^
Way to prove him right.

[Mango Kid]

I personally believe TFC can average 30,000 per game as well.

Not any time soon, I'm afraid, or there wouldn't be tickets available to most games of late.

[Mango Kid]

TFC07 (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=54): So do I...but the point was that redcard thinks the Argos' attendance is based on the possibility of Bills tickets. In fact, that's not the case.

True, I heard the number that took advantage of the Bills opportunity was a couple thousand.

[Kooper]

as i said before, i hope the cfl folds so like that they can never threaten to move in

Wouldn't that by typical. Argos move in, NFL comes north, CFL folds we get stuck with a ruined stadium that MLSE has to pay to fix.

[Cashcleaner]

Wow. Simmons really doesn't understand the situation at all.

Firstly, there are plenty of Argo fans who don't want to make the move to BMO Field to begin with, because quite frankly, they have a good thing going at Rogers Centre. I believe they see the flawed logic in the idea of moving out from the existing facility
that can acomodate them now (Rogers Centre) to one that will need extensive reconstuction to fit their playing surface and meet the minimum seating requirement (BMO Field).

Secondly, BMO Field was built with most of the cash coming from taxpayers pockets, but it was always intended to be soccer-specific. It's still open to the public for local youth and adult league use, as well as for the national teams. That was the agreement from day one.

Thirdly, no team deserves to play wherever they want just because they've been around longer. That's just really, really stupid.

[CretanBull]

Can't believe the soccer fools were anti-Argo protesting at BMO Field, as if the stadium belonged to them. The stadium was built with taxpayers money. The Argos, having been around forever, are as deserving of occupying that stadium as anyone.

Hi, yeah, I'm a taxpayer so yes it does belong to me.

[tfcleeds]

Here's my response to his column: a little long-winded perhaps, but heck, its the one and only time I'll be writing him:

Dear Mr. Simmons,

As a reader of your column over the last couple of years, I have become familiar with your anti-soccer agenda, especially in regards to Toronto FC and its growth in this city's sports market during its two year existence. I have somewhat come to view your opinions regarding TFC and soccer in general as comic relief, and I don't get too worked up over them. However, I felt I would make a few points addressing last Sunday's column.

Firstly, the protest at the MLS All-Star game was not anti-Argos. The protest was organized to express support for the idea of BMO Field remaining a soccer-specific facility. Most TFC fans, and its supporters groups, have nothing against the Argos. The Argos have a proud, storied history in this city, and many fans of TFC are also Argos fans. However, as fans of TFC, and proponents of the growth of soccer in this country, we feel it is extremely important to have a soccer-only facility. As a journalist covering sports in this city, you are probably familiar with the reasons cited for keeping BMO a soccer-specific facility, so I won't list them here.

Secondly, your comment that BMO field was financed with tax-payer dollars is only partly true. Yes it was, but it was also built with a large contribution from the private sector, specifically, MLSE. And the Argos are already playing in a wonderful facility, paid for by tax-payers - the Rogers Centre.

As for your assertion that the Argos deserve to be at BMO since they have been around longer, well, I'm sure you are aware that the Argos had their chance to share the new facility with TFC. However, they pulled out of the abandoned York stadium project once they were offered the sweet deal from Ted Rogers to stay at Rogers Centre. Perhaps Argos management was afraid to take on the risk of sharing a new facility with a soccer franchise. Now, the with the resounding success of BMO Field as a sports facility, in large part due to TFC fans, the Argos want to ride on the coattails of TFC's success (at least, success off the field, anyway). Sorry Argos, you had your chance.

Through the reading of your columns, I am also aware of your personal desire to see a permanent NFL franchise in this city. However, surely even you must realize that a NFL franchise for Toronto would effectively consign the Argos to the dustbin of history.

Lastly, I would like to think that all local sports franchises would have the backing of members of the sports media in this city, yourself included. Would it kill you to say something positive about TFC the odd time, when you actually bother to mention them at all? Perhaps it really would. I realize you are part of the "old guard" of sports journalists in this city, the ones who continue to contribute thousands of column inches to a hockey franchise that has done nothing of note over the last 41 years except solidify its reputation as a loser. I may be a "soccer fool", but I'm not foolish enough to think that soccer has no chance of growing in this country, and as a consequence, that TFC has no chance of ever occupying a prominent place in this city's sporting landscape.

[boban]

did he forget that there was a deal to make a stadium for both teams at York which the Argos backed out of. Hence having the taxpayers ante up cash to make the NEW SSS at the the ex.

STUPID CUNTS!!!!!!
Don't you just love revisionist history.
Taxpayer dollars were already in the plans for the York U stadium.
It was MLSE who picked up the Argo void.

[boban]

The stadium, as I’m sure you well-know and simply choose to gloss over, was originally planned for the campus of York University and designed as a multi-purpose facility, capable of supporting CFL football with rolling stands in the north and south ends. Those stands would be pushed back to allow for the extra length required by the CFL.
No it wasn't.
The CNE gounds were always the first choice.

[boban]

$69 million
Nope. $62.5 million.

[colman1860]

And according to his logic, the Argos have just as much right to play at Glen Abbey or where that tennis tournament is happening right now

That would be York University. I heard the Argos might actually move there - oh wait
;)

[Mango Kid]

No it wasn't.
The CNE gounds were always the first choice.

True. If I recall, it was the Argos operating alone that were looking at York thanks to a connection their owners have to the school (one or both of Cynammon and Sokolowski are alumni) and they were intending to use their own construction firm to develop the area in a project that went far beyond just a stadium.

[colman1860]

Here's my response to his column: a little long-winded perhaps, but heck, its the one and only time I'll be writing him:

Dear Mr. Simmons,

As a reader of your column over the last couple of years, I have become familiar with your anti-soccer agenda, especially in regards to Toronto FC and its growth in this city's sports market during its two year existence. I have somewhat come to view your opinions regarding TFC and soccer in general as comic relief, and I don't get too worked up over them. However, I felt I would make a few points addressing last Sunday's column.

Firstly, the protest at the MLS All-Star game was not anti-Argos. The protest was organized to express support for the idea of BMO Field remaining a soccer-specific facility. Most TFC fans, and its supporters groups, have nothing against the Argos. The Argos have a proud, storied history in this city, and many fans of TFC are also Argos fans. However, as fans of TFC, and proponents of the growth of soccer in this country, we feel it is extremely important to have a soccer-only facility. As a journalist covering sports in this city, you are probably familiar with the reasons cited for keeping BMO a soccer-specific facility, so I won't list them here.

Secondly, your comment that BMO field was financed with tax-payer dollars is only partly true. Yes it was, but it was also built with a large contribution from the private sector, specifically, MLSE. And the Argos are already playing in a wonderful facility, paid for by tax-payers - the Rogers Centre.

As for your assertion that the Argos deserve to be at BMO since they have been around longer, well, I'm sure you are aware that the Argos had their chance to share the new facility with TFC. However, they pulled out of the abandoned York stadium project once they were offered the sweet deal from Ted Rogers to stay at Rogers Centre. Perhaps Argos management was afraid to take on the risk of sharing a new facility with a soccer franchise. Now, the with the resounding success of BMO Field as a sports facility, in large part due to TFC fans, the Argos want to ride on the coattails of TFC's success (at least, success off the field, anyway). Sorry Argos, you had your chance.

Through the reading of your columns, I am also aware of your personal desire to see a permanent NFL franchise in this city. However, surely even you must realize that a NFL franchise for Toronto would effectively consign the Argos to the dustbin of history.

Lastly, I would like to think that all local sports franchises would have the backing of members of the sports media in this city, yourself included. Would it kill you to say something positive about TFC the odd time, when you actually bother to mention them at all? Perhaps it really would. I realize you are part of the "old guard" of sports journalists in this city, the ones who continue to contribute thousands of column inches to a hockey franchise that has done nothing of note over the last 41 years except solidify its reputation as a loser. I may be a "soccer fool", but I'm not foolish enough to think that soccer has no chance of growing in this country, and as a consequence, that TFC has no chance of ever occupying a prominent place in this city's sporting landscape.

Very well reasoned and written - too bad hes probably too much of an idiot to take it seriously.

[boban]

True. If I recall, it was the Argos operating alone that were looking at York thanks to a connection their owners have to the school (one or both of Cynammon and Sokolowski are alumni) and they were intending to use their own construction firm to develop the area in a project that went far beyond just a stadium.
The Argo were never going it alone. They latched on to the free ride the CSA was providing vis a vis the government money for the FIFA 2007 U-20 tournament.

[Mango Kid]

You are correct.
http://www.yorku.ca/alumni/alumnimatters/oct-04/newstadium.html

[ilikemusic]

Yawn

Nothing new here.

Just another member of the old media pissing and moaning about soccer because they dont like/care about/understand it.

Soon they will all be dead and will be replaced with sports reporters who *GASP*:eek:....like sports.

Sports writers in this town seem to be really frustrated that they tell everyone over and over again how much soccer sucks and nobody will listen. How is anybody supposed to be a sports columnists if they cant tell their audience what to like?!

:p

[James Oliphant]

No it wasn't.
The CNE gounds were always the first choice.

First choice, but not the only choice...and they got much closer to deals with U of T and York U before getting the go-ahead for the Ex.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2004/10/15/argos-stadium041015.html

The new stadium would also be home to the Canadian Soccer Association and host matches for the 2007 world under-21 men's soccer championships. The tournament is second only to the World Cup in size.

http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/article/20050426870


The Toronto Argonauts have acknowledged they may be having second thoughts about moving to a proposed outdoor stadium at York University.
The Argos, Canadian Soccer Association and York had announced plans for the 25,000-seat stadium, which is the cornerstone of Canada hosting the 2007 world under-20 soccer championship.

http://www.yorku.ca/mediar/archive/Release.asp?Release=879

York University regrets to announce that the recent withdrawal from the stadium project by the Argos has made it impossible for us to proceed with the construction of a stadium that would be suitable both for the York community and for the FIFA soccer tournament in time for 2007. The timeline established in October 2004, for a project involving York University, the Argos and the Canadian Soccer Association was a feasible proposition. Until three weeks ago, we were proceeding on time and on budget, despite very tight timelines.

[Keegan]

WOW

CFL? Who gives a shit about that league? Who follows the CFL? Simmons that's who... a nerdy little cunt who goes home every weekend to suck on his moms tit.

We are talking about the C-F-L.... it is a joke league. Simmons wake up, Soccer is the second biggest sport in this country. American/Canadian Football is going to have to enjoy the back-seat for as long as Soccer exists.

[TicTacTabarnack]

This what the Argos should do. BNuild a stadium like Bright House Networks Stadium in Florida. They should build it in the portlands area because of the waterfront/revitalization plans which will make it into a more hospitable place and it's close to downtown. Hell, if we get backing from Ottawa for the PanAm games, then you can get the feds to pay for it!

The cost of this was 54 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_House_Networks_Stadium


54 Million for a 45,301 seat stadium and BMO cost 69 Million for a 20k+ seat stadium? Hmmmm...

[StandUpIfYouHateChelsea]

Not any time soon, I'm afraid, or there wouldn't be tickets available to most games of late.

if you think we wouldnt average 30,000 with a 50,000 seat stadium your nuts , we have 16,000 season tickets sales plus another 8k on the waiting list that makes 24k season tickets alot AT THIS TIME ..... if we had 50k seats we would probobly average 40k or more look.... The TDOT is built on immigrants from FOOTBALL loving countries they grew up with football and they are itching to go see the beautiful game we have 4 million ppl in toronto ..... your telling me we couldnt even get 30k of those out every week? HAHAHAHAHAH we would sell out .....and the Few with power in this city would have to bow to the Real football loving masses:taz::taz::taz::taz::taz::taz:

ohh yeah.... steve simmons was my hockey coach a couple years ago HAHAHHAHAHAH

[Rudi]

We could care less about the team.
Should read, "We couldn't care less about the team."

[/pedantic]

[ilikemusic]

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9636/carelessul9.png

[Redcoe15]

Hi there. My first post. :D

I hate that Steve Simmons - aka, Evil Bozo - with the intensity of a thousand suns! :mad5: He's an arrogant, humourless, unintelligent shitfuck who treats readers as if they were stupid (like him!). One moment he talks about the importance of the Argonauts to Toronto and the CFL as a whole and the next minute turns around and pimps up bringing an NFL team to Toronto as being the greatest thing that can happen for the city, which he used to do on a regular basis when Paul "The Weasel" Godfrey was running the Sun.

I agree with everyone's assesment of this shitfuck's comments. Especially when he tries and makes the case that the Argos deserve to be at BMO Field because they've been around the longest. No they don't Bozo. They had the opprotunity to join up with the soccer people and bailed out quickly so they can get free rent at Rogers Centre from the same people who now want to bring NFL football to Toronto.

So sorry. When you lie down with dogs, you're gonna get fleas. Don't bring your new parasites into Our House!

And Steve "Evil Bozo" Simmons can go :sheep:!

[The Pope]

^ welcome, and don't be afraid to tell us how you really feel lol

[GuelphStorm2007]

The Argos will never leave the Rogers Centre, I am sure they will negotiate a new deal with the Rogers Centre People. Cause the The Rogers Centre would not want to lose a tennant.

[Vindaloo]

Here's my response to his column: a little long-winded perhaps, but heck, its the one and only time I'll be writing him:

Dear Mr. Simmons,

As a reader of your column over the last couple of years, I have become familiar with your anti-soccer agenda, especially in regards to Toronto FC and its growth in this city's sports market during its two year existence. I have somewhat come to view your opinions regarding TFC and soccer in general as comic relief, and I don't get too worked up over them. However, I felt I would make a few points addressing last Sunday's column.

Firstly, the protest at the MLS All-Star game was not anti-Argos. The protest was organized to express support for the idea of BMO Field remaining a soccer-specific facility. Most TFC fans, and its supporters groups, have nothing against the Argos. The Argos have a proud, storied history in this city, and many fans of TFC are also Argos fans. However, as fans of TFC, and proponents of the growth of soccer in this country, we feel it is extremely important to have a soccer-only facility. As a journalist covering sports in this city, you are probably familiar with the reasons cited for keeping BMO a soccer-specific facility, so I won't list them here.

Secondly, your comment that BMO field was financed with tax-payer dollars is only partly true. Yes it was, but it was also built with a large contribution from the private sector, specifically, MLSE. And the Argos are already playing in a wonderful facility, paid for by tax-payers - the Rogers Centre.

As for your assertion that the Argos deserve to be at BMO since they have been around longer, well, I'm sure you are aware that the Argos had their chance to share the new facility with TFC. However, they pulled out of the abandoned York stadium project once they were offered the sweet deal from Ted Rogers to stay at Rogers Centre. Perhaps Argos management was afraid to take on the risk of sharing a new facility with a soccer franchise. Now, the with the resounding success of BMO Field as a sports facility, in large part due to TFC fans, the Argos want to ride on the coattails of TFC's success (at least, success off the field, anyway). Sorry Argos, you had your chance.

Through the reading of your columns, I am also aware of your personal desire to see a permanent NFL franchise in this city. However, surely even you must realize that a NFL franchise for Toronto would effectively consign the Argos to the dustbin of history.

Lastly, I would like to think that all local sports franchises would have the backing of members of the sports media in this city, yourself included. Would it kill you to say something positive about TFC the odd time, when you actually bother to mention them at all? Perhaps it really would. I realize you are part of the "old guard" of sports journalists in this city, the ones who continue to contribute thousands of column inches to a hockey franchise that has done nothing of note over the last 41 years except solidify its reputation as a loser. I may be a "soccer fool", but I'm not foolish enough to think that soccer has no chance of growing in this country, and as a consequence, that TFC has no chance of ever occupying a prominent place in this city's sporting landscape.

Absolutely great letter! Unfortunately that goof will probably just skim over the parts he doesn't want to read.

On a personal note, I loathe helmetball and want it to stay away from world's beautiful game as permanently as possible.

[boban]

54 Million for a 45,301 seat stadium and BMO cost 69 Million for a 20k+ seat stadium? Hmmmm...
$62.5 Million. But who's counting ;)

[boban]

First choice, but not the only choice...and they got much closer to deals with U of T and York U before getting the go-ahead for the Ex.[/font][/size]
Thanks for enlightening us James.
Your initially point was that the stadium site was originally at York U.
It wasn't. Thats all.
But thanks for the recount of events after.
Cheers and have a good one.

[rocker]

it's been so long since skydome was built.. i think it's time to give the argos another 600 million dollar stadium.

the taxpayer argument is bullshit since they already have a taxpayer funded stadium.

[James Oliphant]

Thanks for enlightening us James.
Your initially point was that the stadium site was originally at York U.
It wasn't. Thats all.
But thanks for the recount of events after.
Cheers and have a good one.

That's because it was...none of the other sites got past the proposal stage. Funding was in place for the York U project...the same cannot be said of the Ex or of U of T. Not until after the Argos yanked the rug out from under York U and the CSA.

[iansmcl]

54 Million for a 45,301 seat stadium and BMO cost 69 Million for a 20k+ seat stadium? Hmmmm...

I believe one of the things that escalated the price a bit was buying the land? I'm sure the plot of land they bought (downtown... on the lake...) wasn't the cheapest place they could've built it. But I don't think it cost "that" much...:noidea:

[iansmcl]

Also, who is the hot chick from page one?

[boban]

That's because it was...none of the other sites got past the proposal stage. Funding was in place for the York U project...the same cannot be said of the Ex or of U of T. Not until after the Argos yanked the rug out from under York U and the CSA.
If you want to use that argument then it still wasn't York U.
That honour would go to U of T. That dies because of the NIMBY factor.
CNE was always first choice for the CSA (they had the money via the governments).

[boban]

I believe one of the things that escalated the price a bit was buying the land? I'm sure the plot of land they bought (downtown... on the lake...) wasn't the cheapest place they could've built it. But I don't think it cost "that" much...:noidea:
There was no cash for land exchange as it sits on city land.
The $62.5 million price tag was construction only.

[BRed]

I think all of this is going to be an afterthought. Once MLSE realizes that TFC can sell out a 30,000 stadium on a regular basis with no problem, they will be forced to nurture their golden seed, TFC. So, they would have to either build a new stadium or expand BMO field regardless if Argos are in or out or who gives a shit if they are screaming or whining. The only thing I urge everyone to keep pushing for is GRASS!!! If the whole supporters section boycotts one game and show empty seats on TV, they will piss their pants. I watched the All Star game and I have to say the atmosphere was not the same with the supporters sitting on their hands.

[James17930]

My response:

//

“Can't believe the soccer fools...”

Name-calling will get you everywhere.

“...were anti-Argo protesting at BMO Field”

Anti-Argo-occupation, not anti-Argo. We could care less about the team...we care more about the stadium.

“...as if the stadium belonged to them.”

It is called the National Soccer Stadium for a reason.

“ The stadium was built with taxpayers money.”

Kinda like the SkyD....err, Rogers Centre.

“ The Argos, having been around forever...”

...and having never once built their own stadium...

“ are as deserving of occupying that stadium as anyone.”

Well, this is where you really lose me. Because the Argos had their chance.

The stadium, as I’m sure you well-know and simply choose to gloss over, was originally planned for the campus of York University and designed as a multi-purpose facility, capable of supporting CFL football with rolling stands in the north and south ends. Those stands would be pushed back to allow for the extra length required by the CFL.

The Argos, by withdrawing from the York U project because of Uncle Ted offer-they-couldn't-refuse, cost the university and the CSA a significant amount of money and also put our city’s attempts to host the finals of the 2007 FIFA U-20 World Cup, one of the largest sporting events in the world, in serious jeopardy.

The Argos had their chance to be involved in this taxpayer-funded project. It was another opportunity for this franchise to put in little of the money and none of the effort involved in building a stadium for themselves. They’re this city’s sporting squatters.

But you know all this, right? I mean, that’s your job as a Toronto sports journalist - to be familiar with the comings-and-goings of this city’s sporting organizations. Why, then, do you choose to omit these facts in the interest of a more controversial read? I’m sorry, Steve, but that’s the antithesis of journalism...it makes you the Ann Coulter of the Toronto sport media.

And for the record, the stadium does belong to me. As a Toronto resident and a season ticket holder for Toronto FC, I’ve paid four times over for the construction and operation of BMO Field (municipally, provincially, federally and privately). I have as much right to speak against the Argos moving into my stadium as anyone else.

How dare you insist otherwise.

Sincerely,
James Oliphant
joliphant@sympatico.ca

//

And yes, I didn't use my typical email address (james@gotorontofc.com), but that's only because my site's down at the moment due to an ongoing dispute with the hosting company.

Beautiful. You make him look like the five-year-old he is. Any decent journalist would print a retraction; I'm sure you'll hear nothing back from him though.

[Roogsy]

I was a little more low-brow. LOL!



You’re an idiot. The protest was not anti-Argos. Many of those who took part in the protest are Argo fans. The protest was to communicate the displeasure of the fans of the possibility of the Argos MOVING INTO BMO FIELD. A completely different issue. If the Argos move into BMO Field, many issues that are causing problems in stadiums currently sharing with football operations in the US will be transplanted to BMO Field and ruin what has been a great soccer atmosphere. Why do you think the fans would accept this? Why do you generalize and accept such poor journalism on your part and give into the tendency to sensationalize things? I know you work for a “tabloid” instead of a real newspaper but try to do a better job dude and stick to whining about hockey in this town. It’s obvious you know little about anything else.

And hey…how about the Argos stay in the stadium that was paid with more than 10x the taxpayers money than BMO Field? Didn’t Skydome cost something like 600million? What was the point if they are just gonna dump it to move elsewhere 15 years later? 600 mill doesn’t go far anymore does it? Where is your outrage now?

I can’t believe the Sun is Toronto FC’s official newspaper. You guys do the worst job of coverage soccer, local or global than anyone else in Toronto. You’re a one-trick pony.

[James Oliphant]

Beautiful. You make him look like the five-year-old he is. Any decent journalist would print a retraction; I'm sure you'll hear nothing back from him though.

...which is why I sent it to his bosses as well via BCC. ;)

[BC101]

I was a little more low-brow. LOL!

[/font]


LOL greatest one ever between you and the GOTFC guy LMFAO some good laughs there.. He'll be crying in his next article LOL.

[Redcoe15]

Apperantly, the Evil Bozo is not alone in his warped sentiments about the Argos and BMO Field. The Globe and Mail's Dave Naylor had this to say about the matter on yesterday's TSN The Reporters:


My thumb is down to the supporters of Toronto FC who wore black to the MLS All Star game to protest the notion that the Toronto Argonauts may one day call BMO Field home. Now I may not get soccer, but I do get the fact that BMO Field has become the shrine to the sport in Southern Ontario. And it would problably seem like sacrilege to paint lines for three down football on the field there. One problem here, this is a tax payer-funded field, both soccer fans and CFL fans. So if Toronto FC fans want to keep CFL out, they should get out their checkbooks and pay for it.

Now, I like and respect Naylor. But his comments are along the same lines as Evil Bozo's, stupid and uninformed. Plus he's a die-hard CFL supporter (unlike EvBo whom I have suspicions about) and is problably pissed about not getting any support for the CFL towards his hometown Ottawa. In any case, his comments should be equally mocked as well.

[Rawkus_420]

he's got one of those faces you want to hit - repeatedly

http://slam.canoe.ca/2002GamesColumnistsImages/simmons2.gif

It looks fat and swollen as if somebody already has....

[TicTacTabarnack]

I can’t believe the Sun is Toronto FC’s official newspaper. You guys do the worst job of coverage soccer, local or global than anyone else in Toronto. You’re a one-trick pony.

That one-trick pony being the sunshine girl we add to our daily news thread ... keep up the great work!

Triple-A grade quality journalism right there ... erghhh... yeah ... journalism :p

[RicoSuave44]

Subject: Argos at BMO?

Not over my cold dead body Steve-O. Where do you get off saying that because the Argos are an older franchise that they are more deserving of BMO field? BMO was a SSS project (soccer specific stadium) initiated by the CSA (thats Canadian Soccer Association if you didn't know) and they chiped in for funding.
The Argos already have a stadium, and with all their lovely history, can't seem to fill it. Only 9 home games a season but they can't manage to scrape together 50,000 pointy-ball lovers for even one game.... even in the playoffs. If they want their own intimate venue so badly, maybe the CFL fans in this city can get their butts in gear and make it happen.
Meanwhile, TFC will continue to sell out and the waiting list for season tickets will continue to grow.

C'mon Steve. Don't act so bitter. I thought you were better than that. Oh no wait, no I didn't.

-Graham

[AL-MO]

btw - CSA didn't contribute anything, all they did was secure the U20 tournament which was required to get federal funding.

[boban]

btw - CSA didn't contribute anything...
No one said they did.

[AL-MO]

look at the poster above me.

[Roogsy]

btw - CSA didn't contribute anything, all they did was secure the U20 tournament which was required to get federal funding.

Shhhh! We don't need to tell the jerk-off!

[dag]

Roogsy

U

r

da
MAN!

:iagree:

[lovesmyirish]

You shouldnt be upset by this guy because you shouldnt be upset at someone with that great a deal of ignorance.

this is the same guy who in that same article wrote

"Why doesn't Justin Morneau get the Steve Nash adoration? He is an MVP. He has won the all-star home run derby. He is fifth in batting in the American League, second in RBIs, fourth in hits and is a legitimate MVP contender. He should be right there on our We Love Canadians meter"

perhaps if he lived in the now and not in the was he would realize young people dont care about baseball nearly as much as they do basketball. once i saw him write that i realized i cant get mad at a guy who isnt in touch with reality.

[reggie]

when those 2 bush league argo owners ran out on the york u deal,
i said that i will never spend another penny on the argos and i have not....
play at lamport you cheap fuckers....

[Limani_Ole]

cant believe anyone reads the Sun still..

they should stick to pictures..

[james]

Of course, since they have 50,000 seats available to fans to come in watch their games. Just imagine if the Leafs had that many seats available. I am sure they'll have more 30,000 per game.

I personally believe TFC can average 30,000 per game as well.

Leafs could seriously sell out 50,000 easy. TFC arent as big as some of you may think. I think there may be some games we could sell 30,000. Beckham game we could sell 50,000, some season games maybe we could sell 30,000. But for the most part i dont think we could. Example would be we only sold 18,000 when we played Vancouver and we also didnt sell all of are Montreal tickets till the day of the game. So think about it, if that game was played at sky dome we would of had 18,000 and 20,000 in 50,000 stadium, would of been pretty shitty if you ask me. I think 25,000 seat stadium is the biggest we could go after that you are just gonna see alot of empty seats.

[Sonny Cheeba]

i agree that a 50 000 seat stadium is a bit far...

but if you consider the season ticket waiting list, and maybe even space for away support (they want to come, they just can't get huge lots of tickets to regular season games) we'd be over 25 000.

[james]

i agree that a 50 000 seat stadium is a bit far...

but if you consider the season ticket waiting list, and maybe even space for away support (they want to come, they just can't get huge lots of tickets to regular season games) we'd be over 25 000.

only fans that would get over 100 fans travelling all this way would be DC and Chicago. And both would set their own records if they reached 1,000 fans. New York had the record for biggest amount of away fans travelling to a game prior to this year, they got 800 fans travel to DC. Reason they had 800 fans travel to DC was because "IT WAS FREE" paid by the team. We set a record this year in Columbus with what 2,000-2,500 fans all paid by us! But even 1,000 is mostly doubtfull, 500 is more likely. Montreal if they joined MLS ya i could deffinitly see them bringing 3,000 because we would bring that same number to Montreal as long as its a weekend game. Would be sick tho, i sure hope Montreal joins MLS even tho i hate them cunts!

[Sonny Cheeba]

my point was that we'd be able to handle a stadium larger than 25 000 as long as the waiting list holds up (someone said it was like 9000 people, but i think the sales rep i talked to said around 4-5 thousand).

chicago would probably want to travel to toronto some time too. and there would also be more seats for international friendly supporters (but i don't know what the deal was for them as far as the previous friendlies went).

just sayin. these are posibilities. i mean the league is still growing, and if we set examples as to how a traveling supporters group can enhance the atmosphere of the stadium, people will want to travel to us too don't you think?