City of Toronto excitement level

[C.Ronaldo]

Any Ideas on how MLSE should drum up excitement for this team?

I know the opener is pretty much sold out, but I don't feel any excitement from the media or the general Toronto population.

I mean the Jays are killing it in ticket sales and TV, and they have 150 games to go. The media is all over the Jays recently.

[khso11]

I think they might release a promotional video in the next few days, something similar to this one from last year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhr3u9WJlf8

[Cas87]

The Jays also have the longevity (40 years) and sustained success in the past. (1985 through 1994 have carried through for the most part to now)

Where as TFC is still new, and they have had a history of not succeeding. To the general public of Toronto (and not us soccer supporters) that doesn't necessitate their entertainment dollar to be spent of TFC consistently. The home opener with the 're-opening' of BMO Field is a novelty and why the game is sold out (for the most part).

If TFC and the Jays carry the success through the summer (meaning both are within touching distance of first place), then you will see more of a split in the local sports media (not TSN or SN, as they have other things to push, i.e. CFL, World Cup of Hockey and Euro 2016).

[RealG-TFC]

Just keep on winning.

[mistercorporate]

Just keep on winning.

This. We win, they'll come along. We're growing pretty well and pretty consistently the last couple years for such a new franchise. If we make a deep playoff run people will sit up and take notice and the media will push the product! I'm only watching Raptors and Jays games because they're in the playoffs, otherwise I wouldn't give a damn. Haven't watched the Leafs in ages but I'd watch if they made a good push. We're the die-hard TFC supporters, we just came out of the worst years and stuck with them through hard times (people used to make fun of me for liking TFC since they sucked so bad, but now they respect them), the only way is up! I want us to be the next local team to win a Championship, that'll open the floodgates of support. Also, the next TV deal should bump up the salary cap, that's when you'll see the level of quality explode along with the coming players in our Academy pipeline.

[Joe Kool]

I was talking to some parents of my son's soccer team on the weekend and the conversation turned to BMO Field and the Argos. They were all excited and some were buying season tickets now that it was at BMO so I have heard of some excitement in the City of Toronto for an upcoming season home opener...it just wasn't for the TFC season. None of my close friends and family are avid TFC supporters at all so it is only me that is excited along with you fine folk.

[mistercorporate]

I was talking to some parents of my son's soccer team on the weekend and the conversation turned to BMO Field and the Argos. They were all excited and some were buying season tickets now that it was at BMO so I have heard of some excitement in the City of Toronto for an upcoming season home opener...it just wasn't for the TFC season. None of my close friends and family are avid TFC supporters at all so it is only me that is excited along with you fine folk.

To be fair, you're from Ajax. Oshawa is the CFL heartland, they get more people searching for Argos info than in all of Toronto according to Google Trends. Parents and grandparents from Oshawa-Ajax are the CFL diehards lol, Toronto couldn't give 2 f*%ks.

[Onyx]

I was talking to some parents of my son's soccer team on the weekend and the conversation turned to BMO Field and the Argos. They were all excited and some were buying season tickets now that it was at BMO so I have heard of some excitement in the City of Toronto for an upcoming season home opener...it just wasn't for the TFC season. None of my close friends and family are avid TFC supporters at all so it is only me that is excited along with you fine folk.

same thing at work and out at kids sports, Parents i talked about BMO Field are excited about the Argos first game. Alll soccer focus is if LCFC can hold on and champions league games. ML$E has work to do.

[Oldtimer]

Just keep on winning.

Best answer! If you look at Jays a few years ago they were drawing 13k to many games. Winning changed everything for them.

[Joe Kool]

To be fair, you're from Ajax. Oshawa is the CFL heartland, they get more people searching for Argos info than in all of Toronto according to Google Trends. Parents and grandparents from Oshawa-Ajax are the CFL diehards lol, Toronto couldn't give 2 f*%ks.

Point taken I am not from Toronto but I always consider topics on Toronto in my mind as GTA topics I guess but you are right there is probably a difference once you are out of Toronto proper. I don't know anything about the Argos demographics because I don't pay attention to the CFL much. I always assumed it was equally supported across the GTA but I had nothing to base that assumption on. Going back to the topic of TFC excitement, what shocks me a bit is that none of the parents for my son's soccer team follow MLS or know anything about TFC. How the hell do they devote so much time and money into a sport for their kid if they have no interest themselves? I find it really odd that way.

[OgtheDim]

I'd like to see TFC go full bore after millennials in the city - its a downtown club playing night games. Italian superstar. Liberty Village. TTC and bike accessibility. Diverse team. Diverse crowd. Beer, other stuff.


I think that's more the focus with the night games but we'll see.

[Beach_Red]

And as the profile of MLS raises so will interest in the team.

[james]

TFC has there supporters, we can sell 15k-25k, even 50k for a game at the sky dome. Our attendance at games is good, but our TV ratings are low compared to other sports. MLS is still a a niche market. It has grown hugely over the years to where MLS once was, it has some teams that have fantastic support and good attendances, but still we are more of a niche market. Even tho Soccer is widely played, it is much smaller scale of those who support a soccer club team, and even smaller a MLS club (Many people in the GTA and I assume across North America like Soccer, but only actually watch Euros/World Cups, or leagues like Premiership or Champions League.

I have worked at a few different places over the years since 2007, I have worked with a bunch of guys who only knew stuff about Baseball, Hockey, and Football (Or Raptors if they were doing well), soccer tho was never mentioned and looked at as a girls sport. They had no clue about any leagues or even knew about Toronto FC. I have worked with guys who like Soccer but only really know anything about big Euro Clubs, they didn't really take the time of day to give Toronto FC a chance. And I have worked with a few guys who take Toronto FC very serious and attend many games. As a whole tho, its shocking how little many people know about Toronto FC or MLS even tho I see tens of thousands on game day and the fact that it may not be as represented in the News Paper as Leafs and Jays, but still they are in there and even on front page from time to time, how do they not notice???. Over the years I have learned tho that who cares, sure I would like to see the league grow, but it's not the biggest deal if its not as popular as Baseball or Hockey in this city. In some ways I like it better that we are a more niche market, we all know we have the best atmosphere in this city, I have a blast at home games and fantastic away journeys (no other fans in this city have away sections exc. like TFC do). Its kind of cool when you know we are having a party and we don't need the whole city to know it!

[james]

Point taken I am not from Toronto but I always consider topics on Toronto in my mind as GTA topics I guess but you are right there is probably a difference once you are out of Toronto proper. I don't know anything about the Argos demographics because I don't pay attention to the CFL much. I always assumed it was equally supported across the GTA but I had nothing to base that assumption on. Going back to the topic of TFC excitement, what shocks me a bit is that none of the parents for my son's soccer team follow MLS or know anything about TFC. How the hell do they devote so much time and money into a sport for their kid if they have no interest themselves? I find it really odd that way.

Soccer has been the most played sport in the GTA for decades.....yet it is often hardly ever taken serious as a professional sport. To often it was a rather affordable sport for kids with an activity that gives them good excercise. It was often a sport you play as a kid, but when you get a bit older you play competitive in sports like Hockey or Baseball. Soccer is mostly not a sport parents push there kids as hard to be the most competitive the can be, compared to Hockey, Football,Baskebtall and Baseball.

It is weird, but Soccer as a pro sport is really low across North America despite its huge popularity playing as kids. It is very common that parents don't know a thing about soccer clubs and all the leagues around the world. And it probably use to be even worse a few decades ago, I would say more people know about Soccer Professionally then they ever did, but it still has a long way to go.

[TFC07]

I'd like to see TFC go full bore after millennials in the city - its a downtown club playing night games. Italian superstar. Liberty Village. TTC and bike accessibility. Diverse team. Diverse crowd. Beer, other stuff.


I think that's more the focus with the night games but we'll see.

Makes sense, but too much sense to a point that MLSE wouldn't do it. lol

[Pint]

Last year was our first hint of success, give it some time.

What really needs to be done is to get people age 19-22 involved, get them 5 years before they have consistent disposable income.

Something I saw the Pittsburgh Penguins do when I lived in America was called "Student Rush" where they held back a few hundred seats and sold them to students day of for like $15.

Anyway in the future when the hype train is going full force people will look back at times like these as the good ole days.

[Joe Kool]

So my son's team had a classroom session last night to go over tactics. It was run by the head of our local club. He was mentioning to the players about some of the great players with great footwork and one of the coaches threw out "and what about Giovinco?" and the head of our club said "no...he plays against Mickey Mouse players in a Mickey Mouse league". There is part of the problem. A leader of a possible feeder club puts down MLS in front of their top players. Guess I am expecting too much of common folk in the GTA if people who work every day with soccer and our youth have that attitude.

[Red CB Toronto]

I think overall excitement for the Reds throughout Toronto and beyond is something still in development. While I do believe there has been improvement, the interest in watching games beyond types like us and a handful of casual viewers when not in the stadium just is not there yet when considering TV ratings.

Even when you look back at say the first three seasons, 2007-09 with all the buzz that was going around TFC that was making their games and BMO Field something you had to attend it still was very much an in-stadium experience. Was there a lot of discussion on the roster makeup, who was starting where and what, no, not at all. I really did not think a majority of those attending the games though too much about it outside of the two plus hours they were down at the stadium.

Now with what Seba is doing there is potentially for something to really happen, especially if they get into the playoffs and get on a run. The city is a big event town and it BMO can get that vibe of being a place that is something you must experience, it could get special. The Jays playoff run, the Raptors the last few seasons despite their recent flaws proves this. It going to take time and I think we can all agree we will always be here to some extent anyways, it’s getting the rest of the city to the party that will be the challenge.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm going to play devil's advocate to some of the defending going on here. We all have heard the validity of the teams history being so young or short but ever since Defoe we saw an example of how well they COULD market if they care to.

While $$$ spent on a name like Defoe helps that marketing campaign having a golden boot winner could come close. Same exposure could garner similar or better results.

[Joe Kool]

I'm going to play devil's advocate to some of the defending going on here. We all have heard the validity of the teams history being so young or short but ever since Defoe we saw an example of how well they COULD market if they care to.

While $$$ spent on a name like Defoe helps that marketing campaign having a golden boot winner could come close. Same exposure could garner similar or better results.

Yeah the marketing definitely did die down after the Bloody Big Deal became the Bloody Big Mess. Tim L even said after that they would be keeping it more low key in terms of media hype and letting the play on the field do the talking. I guess they are sticking by that still but I think enough time has passed and we know Giovinco is no Defoe now in terms of his stay at TFC. I think Giovinco is the perfect poster boy for MLSE to market the team. Great player, great attitude, role model for the kids and has some good looks that would lend itself well to marketing. People love the multicultural stuff in Toronto too so they could play up the Italian part too. My son likes some of the great players but when asked who he wants to be like he says Giovinco. When he pulls off a nice move or goal in his games he says "Dad, did you see me pull a Giovinco on that guy". I love it.

I agree with most on here though. The core fans are here already and will always be here and the rest will come and go depending on the winning or losing I think. As we bring up our kids around it the roots will deepen but that will take some time.

[akoto]

I'd like to see TFC go full bore after millennials in the city - its a downtown club playing night games. Italian superstar. Liberty Village. TTC and bike accessibility. Diverse team. Diverse crowd. Beer, other stuff.


I think that's more the focus with the night games but we'll see.


I'm going to play devil's advocate to some of the defending going on here. We all have heard the validity of the teams history being so young or short but ever since Defoe we saw an example of how well they COULD market if they care to.

While $$$ spent on a name like Defoe helps that marketing campaign having a golden boot winner could come close. Same exposure could garner similar or better results.

To OG's point, I think that is what they will do. The "pop up shop" on Queen West is a sign of that. Millennials love that sort of stuff. That market is the one that has the most potential for longevity. They have disposable income, are typically urbanites and they grew up with soccer.

FYR is also correct. They drummed up a ton of attention with Defoe. Everyone in the city, hell most of Canada knew about him. If they could market Gio the same way, combined with going after the millennials BMO could be rocking again.

[Red CB Toronto]

To OG's point, I think that is what they will do. The "pop up shop" on Queen West is a sign of that. Millennials love that sort of stuff. That market is the one that has the most potential for longevity. They have disposable income, are typically urbanites and they grew up with soccer.

FYR is also correct. They drummed up a ton of attention with Defoe. Everyone in the city, hell most of Canada knew about him. If they could market Gio the same way, combined with going after the millennials BMO could be rocking again.

MLSE is toallty capable of going all out marketing Seba and splashing him everywehere in everyone face but as stated the Defoe situation have had them back off such actions in recent times. But I do believe Seba is at the point where they could be comfortbale reconsidering this position and they could go a long way in exposure.

[Cashcleaner]

To OG's point, I think that is what they will do. The "pop up shop" on Queen West is a sign of that. Millennials love that sort of stuff. That market is the one that has the most potential for longevity. They have disposable income, are typically urbanites and they grew up with soccer.

FYR is also correct. They drummed up a ton of attention with Defoe. Everyone in the city, hell most of Canada knew about him. If they could market Gio the same way, combined with going after the millennials BMO could be rocking again.

That's what I'm thinking as well. TFC's marketing is slowly starting to settle into it's own niche, one that is trying to appeal to as many demographics as it can, but focusing somewhat on the young urbanites like you mentioned. The Pop-Up store definitely smacks of catering to them but there's also a few subtle nods elsewhere online, with certain items of merch, etc.

[OgtheDim]

So my son's team had a classroom session last night to go over tactics. It was run by the head of our local club. He was mentioning to the players about some of the great players with great footwork and one of the coaches threw out "and what about Giovinco?" and the head of our club said "no...he plays against Mickey Mouse players in a Mickey Mouse league". There is part of the problem. A leader of a possible feeder club puts down MLS in front of their top players. Guess I am expecting too much of common folk in the GTA if people who work every day with soccer and our youth have that attitude.

The desire of soccer leaders to piss on somebody else never ceases it seems. Nor the inability to understand that a doable and attainable goal for most players is a local league (PDL or USL), where they will be playing against Mickey Mouse types this guy disdains.

And yet if a kid out of their program ever made it to USL, they'd be taking the glory.


Soccer in this country is so fucked.


*********

Thankfully guys like this are not the market focus.

The marketing has to avoid the gatekeepers that guys like this represent. Pitch the quality, the atmosphere and the event. People will show up, slowly.

[CanadaLFC]

As a person that fits the millennial category, things like the pop-shop are an absolute must. A lot of my peers follow sports teams because they are hip and trendy, a la raptors and Jays right now. Things like the "We the North" and Drake endorsement make it cool to follow the raps and people respond.

I personally don't know how I feel about plastic campaigns like that, as I would consider myself more of a football purist, but that is essentially how a lot of teams are attracting fans and creating "buzz".

[molenshtain]

The Jays and Raptors players have done a series of articles, I can't remember on which website, about how much they really, really, really love this city. Having one of the guys on our team do one of those wouldn't hurt I don't think.

The pop-up shop is a really good idea too. I'll stop by for sure.

[Shakes McQueen]

Any Ideas on how MLSE should drum up excitement for this team?

I know the opener is pretty much sold out, but I don't feel any excitement from the media or the general Toronto population.

I mean the Jays are killing it in ticket sales and TV, and they have 150 games to go. The media is all over the Jays recently.

By winning. Fans the the media returned to the Jays because of last season - making bold moves, and having them pay off.

The Raptors are also absorbing a lot of attention right now, due to being in the NBA playoffs.

TFC have the additional uphill struggle of being a soccer team, and not one of the "major" leagues (as perceived by the general public).

Win, look good while doing it, and the rest catches up eventually.

[CanadaLFC]

Yeah, not being the top league in its respective sport also gives MLS and TFC that extra uphill battle for sure. Big following where I'm from for Premier league and stuff, but it doesn't translate over to TFC.

[ManUtd4ever]

TFC will always face an uphill battle in terms of exposure because of the indifference exhibited by the media, and the apathy of Euro snob type football supporters in this city.

That being said, I agree that creating a culture of winning will go a long way towards increasing awareness within the local sports landscape, improving dismal television ratings, and cultivating a larger fan base moving forward.

[TFC/Everton]

This is a generational challenge. The anti-soccer crowd in this city still exists and they completely ignore TFC as if it were arena football.

Most of the Sportsnet/TSN commentators don't care about us because they are born and breed hockey/football/baseball fans. Lots of them also ignore the Raptors to a lesser extent.

The years will pass and soccer will continue to grow in Toronto. If we win a cup or two along the way, it will speed up the process.

I truly believe if TFC made a playoff run and made it to MLS Cup, the city would get into it.

MLS Cup: LA Galaxy vs. Toronto FC at BMO Field this December would make people pay attention, whether they want to or not.

When Leiweke said soccer could become the number 2 sport in the country, he wasn't joking, it could be.

[Beach_Red]

By winning. Fans the the media returned to the Jays because of last season - making bold moves, and having them pay off.

The Raptors are also absorbing a lot of attention right now, due to being in the NBA playoffs.

TFC have the additional uphill struggle of being a soccer team, and not one of the "major" leagues (as perceived by the general public).

Win, look good while doing it, and the rest catches up eventually.

Yes, the rest will catch up. There will always be competition from other sports. Someday maybe even the Leafs this time of year ;).

But even when the Jays or Raptors aren't doing well the NBa and MLB are still major leagues with a lot of interest. The Rock could win a championship every year but lacrosse can only get so big. It remains to be seen if MLS is going to break into the NBA/MLB/NFL level but it seems to be on the way.

[Pint]

Toronto FC ain't your fathers team... but it will be your kids. We are 10 years old, even the youngest of the SSH right now likely didn't start going to games as a child.

Once we start being able to pass the team down to the next generation is when we can start to see the growth.

[SoccMan2]

So wait a minute from what I'm reading from a few of the posts on here , people in and around Toronto and even parents of kids playing soccer are really looking forward to the Argos at BMO Field than even TFC and this from parents of soccer playing kids wow. Well if this is the case then BMO Field should be sold out for every Argo game. Look TFC is hardly talked about on any of the two all sports stations in Toronto, never mind, soccer in general is hardly spoken about on these two stations. I coached a youth soccer team up until last year for many years and I would say I was lucky if I had maybe two out of the 18 players on our team that followed TFC at all or had ever attended a game or watched a game on TV, however, the vast majority of my players were big into world and Euro soccer EPL and so on. These were 18 year old kids who had been playing youth soccer ever since they could walk, who were more or else oblivious to TFC, would not know a Jonathan Osorio if he fell on them from the sky. However, having a head of a youth soccer club ridicule TFC and MLS is a fucking disgrace, and if somehow that idiot is reading this forum I would like to say you are a fucken disgrace! Anyways I'm hoping things will change in terms of TFC becoming more popular with the general sports fans but it's going to be an uphill battle for it to ever happen.

[C.Ronaldo]

I'd like to see TFC go full bore after millennials in the city - its a downtown club playing night games. Italian superstar. Liberty Village. TTC and bike accessibility. Diverse team. Diverse crowd. Beer, other stuff.


I think that's more the focus with the night games but we'll see.

for some reason the jays have the frat boys market cornered, those crazy backwards cap wearing kids. pfff

[C.Ronaldo]

Yeah the marketing definitely did die down after the Bloody Big Deal became the Bloody Big Mess. Tim L even said after that they would be keeping it more low key in terms of media hype and letting the play on the field do the talking. I guess they are sticking by that still but I think enough time has passed and we know Giovinco is no Defoe now in terms of his stay at TFC. I think Giovinco is the perfect poster boy for MLSE to market the team. Great player, great attitude, role model for the kids and has some good looks that would lend itself well to marketing. People love the multicultural stuff in Toronto too so they could play up the Italian part too. My son likes some of the great players but when asked who he wants to be like he says Giovinco. When he pulls off a nice move or goal in his games he says "Dad, did you see me pull a Giovinco on that guy". I love it.

I agree with most on here though. The core fans are here already and will always be here and the rest will come and go depending on the winning or losing I think. As we bring up our kids around it the roots will deepen but that will take some time.

Man Moment of the Day.......almost shed a tear. (cant wait till my toddler can take the pitch or diamond, i cant wake up early enough for hockey though LOL)

[C.Ronaldo]

The desire of soccer leaders to piss on somebody else never ceases it seems. Nor the inability to understand that a doable and attainable goal for most players is a local league (PDL or USL), where they will be playing against Mickey Mouse types this guy disdains.

And yet if a kid out of their program ever made it to USL, they'd be taking the glory.



Soccer in this country is so fucked.


*********

Thankfully guys like this are not the market focus.

The marketing has to avoid the gatekeepers that guys like this represent. Pitch the quality, the atmosphere and the event. People will show up, slowly.


I'd love to see Dichio / Dero go out there and school these guys and their backwards mentality. An MLS quality campaign!

[ronzilla]

What really annoys me is when the news will discuss the jays, raptors, and leafs for 5-10 minutes going into deep analysis and then lastly..." oh, in other news, TFC won 2-0 last night" (shows a 5 second video highlight) and ends abruptly with " Now lets take a look at the weather forecast."

[OgtheDim]

for some reason the jays have the frat boys market cornered, those crazy backwards cap wearing kids. pfff

Frat boys are a sub set of millennials but its a good point. Jays are huge with the under 30.

That second bit you did makes you sound as old as me. :)

[Joe Kool]

Man Moment of the Day.......almost shed a tear. (cant wait till my toddler can take the pitch or diamond, i cant wake up early enough for hockey though LOL)

FYI...My son had soccer practice at 7AM every Saturday for the past several months as part of their team's winter training. Soccer parents are not immune to the early starts unfortunately :)

[james]

for some reason the jays have the frat boys market cornered, those crazy backwards cap wearing kids. pfff

I think they also have the highest percentage of girls viewership as well in the GTA, so many cute girls doing those selfies all game long :D!!! come think of it, id rather not have them all at BMO field.

[greatwhitenorf]

Toronto FC ain't your fathers team... but it will be your kids. We are 10 years old, even the youngest of the SSH right now likely didn't start going to games as a child.

Once we start being able to pass the team down to the next generation is when we can start to see the growth.

That's a decent assessment. If you compare where soccer awareness is now compared to where it was two or three decades ago, it's night and day.

There was a time when the Blizzard's NASL games would draw great crowds - north of 20k - to CNE or Varsity stadiums and get very spotty coverage in much of the local media. The Star, via Bob Koep and Norman Da Costa, would usually have some solid info, but they were always looking to cultivate an immigrant audience (not that that's a bad thing).

But CFTO wouldn't dream of reporting on soccer. Nor CFRB. And they were top of the table in terms of TV and radio.

Now, there's all sorts of coverage and it's only going to get better. However, we live in an age where there's this perception that things have to be 'trending' in the next 20 minutes or it's a disaster. Laughable, really. The greatest impetus to the process of growing soccer awareness and coverage - as others here have rightly stated - is winning.

Win and you're In.

Happily, MLSE have put this principle ahead of prudent finance. The money will come eventually. Winning now is what matters most. Building a winning culture is close behind. Slowly, surely and steadily, it's happening.

[greatwhitenorf]

What really annoys me is when the news will discuss the jays, raptors, and leafs for 5-10 minutes going into deep analysis and then lastly..." oh, in other news, TFC won 2-0 last night" (shows a 5 second video highlight) and ends abruptly with " Now lets take a look at the weather forecast."

Yeah, TSN can plead guilty to that charge.

It's sad that MLS gave them so many games to televise and didn't stipulate some additional support broadcasting, like what is done with the CFL or Hockey Canada telecasts. TSN shows a game, gives a quick highlight or two, a concise summary and whoosh!, off to show some lame, time filler like the 100 Worst Moments in Jai-Alai History. They frustrate motorsports fans the same way.

[james]

I guess we can say the issues are
1) Lots of soccer haters in the GTA
2) Euro Snobs won't give TFC the time or day
3) MLS is not the top league, there for its a harder uphill battle just like OHL Hockey has struggled in the many GTA markets despite Toronto being a so called "Hcokey Mecca", but they are not the NHL
4) Low News coverage compared to other sports
5) TFC had many awful seasons finishing at the bottom of the league
6) TFC is only 10 years old, the league needs time to grow
7) Lets be honest TFC at times is not the most entertaining team to watch on TV, it really is more of a "You have to be there" type experiences
8) To many kids and parents didn't grow up with Soccer as a pro club to follow and are not pushed as hard as say parents and kids growing up wanting to play for the Leafs or Canadians.


One last thing I could say tho is, while we do struggle because of those that view Toronto FC as a "mickey mouse" league and they only follow Euros/World Cup and premiership, I would say even in England they have this issue tho. I can tell you some smaller clubs, even in big cities (London as a great example) has some clubs that are supported only by locals and die hards but the general public would follow Arsenal, Chelsea, or Tottenham even tho they live down the street from clubs like Crystal Palace, Millwall, QPR, AFC Wimbledon, or Luton Town. Or you even get Manchester United and your Liverpool fans in London who have no ties to the cities or even been to visit the cities. TV ratings can also be low as many that follow the smaller clubs actually attend the games , probably a lot like TFC fans do, our ratings are very low, but we can still draw 15k,20k,25k fans, but much of the supports actually attend games, unlike the Leafs for example.

I can say when I lived in Wimbldeon for a short while, I saw Chelsea fans everywhere (Chelsea are one of the closer teams to the area) but 2nd most was probably Arsenal, then maybe Tottenham, then maybe Man U or Liverpool then maybe Fulham fans even tho they were just as close by as Chelsea. It was rare sight for me to see AFC Wimbledon fans, Crystal Palace fans or QPR fans, even tho they were not far away. You only really saw them on game day, near the stadium. Other than that I never saw packs of them watching the games on TV at the pubs, or in mass taking the transit (Unless again you just timed it right and on route with the fans). But when Chelsea played, or even Arsenal you would see a lot of people watching games at the pubs.

[zeelaw]

Over the years I have learned tho that who cares, sure I would like to see the league grow, but it's not the biggest deal if its not as popular as Baseball or Hockey in this city. In some ways I like it better that we are a more niche market, we all know we have the best atmosphere in this city, I have a blast at home games and fantastic away journeys (no other fans in this city have away sections exc. like TFC do). Its kind of cool when you know we are having a party and we don't need the whole city to know it!
Exactly, we avoid lots of headaches by being a little niche, and we have much cheaper tickets. This is a hidden blessing.

[Prof]

There unfortunately is an insecurity with main stream media about soccer. They see that TFC is getting great fan support but will not report it. Their way of keeping the sport down is by not covering it all or giving minimal coverage. God forbid that hockey, baseball or football have competition. The reality is that you do not see any kids playing baseball anymore or football and hockey is also in decline. Soccer fields are jammed but as was stated above they keep MLS and TFC down so kids can focus their interest in foreign leagues. Still much work to be done by MLSE. Most important is to get their stations to cover MLS and TFC.

[C.Ronaldo]

There unfortunately is an insecurity with main stream media about soccer. They see that TFC is getting great fan support but will not report it. Their way of keeping the sport down is by not covering it all or giving minimal coverage. God forbid that hockey, baseball or football have competition. The reality is that you do not see any kids playing baseball anymore or football and hockey is also in decline. Soccer fields are jammed but as was stated above they keep MLS and TFC down so kids can focus their interest in foreign leagues. Still much work to be done by MLSE. Most important is to get their stations to cover MLS and TFC.

i know hockey is on decline, but tons of kids are playing baseball again, but not like we grew up playing it, they are now in the batting cages at 10 years old with pro coaches and analytics, same with golf.
Everyone wants their kid to be a pro, no one seems to want them to have fun or learn things on their own. (you know how many windows I broke whipping tennis balls up again the house wall?)

TFC needs to get out to the schools, get their merchandise out in the play grounds, and get media hip (as the youngns say, 'get lit') for the current 18-28s

[OgtheDim]

Baseball situation a year ago : Weekend big crowds mostly under 30 there for the event. Weekday was paltry and the numbers for watching and listening were on the decline.

Rogers spent big money to get back in the reckoning. But if they tank, that interest will go do something else and they'll be back to being an event occasion.

[zeelaw]

As for marketing campaigns. I don't think we'll see any sort of Bloody Big Deal stuff for Seba considering we openly mocked it and teased it in less than a year. Now consider how the silly "We The North" Campaign might fall flat for the third year running, MLSE might be little hesitant to put themselves out there like this again.

Sidenote, I can't believe the Raptors fanbase buys all that crap with the slogan all over it. We can be proud of our crowd for rejecting such silly shit, hell even the Seba comics are looked at in bemusement.

[zeelaw]

There unfortunately is an insecurity with main stream media about soccer. They see that TFC is getting great fan support but will not report it. Their way of keeping the sport down is by not covering it all or giving minimal coverage.
I don't think it's insecurities because they seem pretty arrogant about soccer but the traditional radio guys honestly have no fucking clue how to talk about it. They can't carry a conversation about it.

[Onyx]

Baseball situation a year ago : Weekend big crowds mostly under 30 there for the event. Weekday was paltry and the numbers for watching and listening were on the decline.

Rogers spent big money to get back in the reckoning. But if they tank, that interest will go do something else and they'll be back to being an event occasion.

I was at Skydome last may and there were maybe 8000 people at the jays game on a tuesday night. It felt like last few years in montreal in the big 0 .. really sad like the team was about to die. They come mid june it was a complete 180 and rest is history.

[Lennon]

What really annoys me is when the news will discuss the jays, raptors, and leafs for 5-10 minutes going into deep analysis and then lastly..." oh, in other news, TFC won 2-0 last night" (shows a 5 second video highlight) and ends abruptly with " Now lets take a look at the weather forecast."

I was listening to Q107 on Saturday and they were talking about how it's a busy sports day for Toronto teams. Mentioned the Jays, Raptors, .... and Marlies :facepalm:

[Commie Red]

I was listening to Q107 on Saturday and they were talking about how it's a busy sports day for Toronto teams. Mentioned the Jays, Raptors, .... and Marlies :facepalm:

I was at Joe's watching this weekend's game against Montreal. I don't really care for Joe's at all but at least there are fellow supporters there. This guy, I don't know, comes in at half-time and he's really angry. He, apparently, works for MLSE and had been busy hosting a "meet the team" event at The Local, a pub in Liberty Village (meters from BMO Field). He said Caldwell and Dichio were there and they were giving out hats and scarfs and other TFC paraphernalia and having a good time. According to this fella, they had pre-arranged the event with the pub and selectively advertised it, so there was plenty of people there with TFC jerseys on and people had brought their kids, etc., and things were going very well. Then the game started. The pub refused to turn any of their multiple TV sets to the game. The Raptors were losing by 28 points at the time -- the place was at least half-filled with TFC supporters -- but the owner said he didn't care. People were forced to scramble out of the place to find somewhere to watch the game or sit there in their TFC gear and watch the Raptor's be humiliated.

[Pint]

I was at Joe's watching this weekend's game against Montreal. I don't really care for Joe's at all but at least there are fellow supporters there. This guy, I don't know, comes in at half-time and he's really angry. He, apparently, works for MLSE and had been busy hosting a "meet the team" event at The Local, a pub in Liberty Village (meters from BMO Field). He said Caldwell and Dichio were there and they were giving out hats and scarfs and other TFC paraphernalia and having a good time. According to this fella, they had pre-arranged the event with the pub and selectively advertised it, so there was plenty of people there with TFC jerseys on and people had brought their kids, etc., and things were going very well. Then the game started. The pub refused to turn any of their multiple TV sets to the game. The Raptors were losing by 28 points at the time -- the place was at least half-filled with TFC supporters -- but the owner said he didn't care. People were forced to scramble out of the place to find somewhere to watch the game or sit there in their TFC gear and watch the Raptor's be humiliated.

That doesn't surprise me and hopefully it will be the last time Local gets business from TFC. If you want to watch the game while other events are going on in Toronto you need to be at Joe's, wheat sheaf, the Duke etc.

May even be tough at those establishments if raps are in game 7 Sunday at the same time TFC play.

[sully]

I was at Joe's watching this weekend's game against Montreal. I don't really care for Joe's at all but at least there are fellow supporters there. This guy, I don't know, comes in at half-time and he's really angry. He, apparently, works for MLSE and had been busy hosting a "meet the team" event at The Local, a pub in Liberty Village (meters from BMO Field). He said Caldwell and Dichio were there and they were giving out hats and scarfs and other TFC paraphernalia and having a good time. According to this fella, they had pre-arranged the event with the pub and selectively advertised it, so there was plenty of people there with TFC jerseys on and people had brought their kids, etc., and things were going very well. Then the game started. The pub refused to turn any of their multiple TV sets to the game. The Raptors were losing by 28 points at the time -- the place was at least half-filled with TFC supporters -- but the owner said he didn't care. People were forced to scramble out of the place to find somewhere to watch the game or sit there in their TFC gear and watch the Raptor's be humiliated.

I was in the local during the women's world cup just after a TFC game along with loads of other TFC fans who wanted to watch the Canadian woman play. It was a big hassle to get the game on and then it was only on one tv. So I left.

[OgtheDim]

I was at Joe's watching this weekend's game against Montreal. I don't really care for Joe's at all but at least there are fellow supporters there. This guy, I don't know, comes in at half-time and he's really angry. He, apparently, works for MLSE and had been busy hosting a "meet the team" event at The Local, a pub in Liberty Village (meters from BMO Field). He said Caldwell and Dichio were there and they were giving out hats and scarfs and other TFC paraphernalia and having a good time. According to this fella, they had pre-arranged the event with the pub and selectively advertised it, so there was plenty of people there with TFC jerseys on and people had brought their kids, etc., and things were going very well. Then the game started. The pub refused to turn any of their multiple TV sets to the game. The Raptors were losing by 28 points at the time -- the place was at least half-filled with TFC supporters -- but the owner said he didn't care. People were forced to scramble out of the place to find somewhere to watch the game or sit there in their TFC gear and watch the Raptor's be humiliated.

So an owner gets a corporate group down, from a company owned by Rogers and Bell, gains business and then refuses to change his station on some of his TV's?!?!?!

Not the brightest bulb.

[Pint]

It's not even a corporate group it's the TFC viewing parties. These are regular fans that will be coming to BMO weekly for the next 6 month that they are screwing around with.

[Ivy]

@impactmontreal: #IMFC has passed the 9,500 mark in season ticket-holding members for the first time >> https://t.co/AAxbTdsCoy https://t.co/G7sl53jh8G

sometimes we forget to appreciate what we have.

[Onyx]

@impactmontreal: #IMFC has passed the 9,500 mark in season ticket-holding members for the first time >> https://t.co/AAxbTdsCoy https://t.co/G7sl53jh8G

sometimes we forget to appreciate what we have.

yeah, remember last year they went from 50,000 for CCL games to 4000-5000 for MLS games ... until they sign Drogba

[SoccMan2]

Wow this story about this pub The Local is insane just crazy. Moreover , what does the Impact season ticket count have to do with this thread?

[Auzzy]

Wow that pub story is amazing. I know it would be way too hard to organize -- but it would be funny, fill the place with TFC fans (with gear) for the next Raptors game, cheer hard, order almost nothing, tip well, and leave with a big FU at the end of the game.

Or something like that.

[Pint]

If they won't hold a viewing at their bar during another teams meaningful game idk how or why they expect another to do so, especially when they are not going to a known supporters bar.

[Auzzy]

If they won't hold a viewing at their bar during another teams meaningful game idk how or why they expect another to do so, especially when they are not going to a known supporters bar.

Don't you think they would have discussed this with the pub management beforehand? Amazing...

[CanadaLFC]

At the end of the day, my personal view is very split. Yes, It'd be cool to have the entire city rally behind this team, but then I also enjoy TFC targeting a niche audience. I see familiar faces at BMO and know that most people are like minded individuals. I shudder to think of a time where some of the "day-one" fans can't get into the stadium because someone who wants to watch the game through snapchat has taken their seat.

[james]

that is crazy about Local....question is did the owners set this up and then the manager just messed it up because he is a "soccer hater" or did the owners them self just mess the whole thing up??? Maybe we should just avoid this place as much as possible. ( another 1 of our so called boycott's?? :facepalm: )

There is other bars now tho, you don't need to go to Local, still got Brazen Head, The Craft, Williams Landing and Shoeless Joe's all within a short walk of BMO field. ( I don't really like shoeless Joe's and it is the furthest of mentioned from the GO train but that location has always been good to TFC supporters).

[OgtheDim]

... I shudder to think of a time where some of the "day-one" fans can't get into the stadium because someone who wants to watch the game through snapchat has taken their seat.


Just a note - snapchat as used by teams is a marketing tool about the game day experience and encouraging people to be involved - its actually very good at that communal thing.

But, people don't snapchat a whole game. Periscope a whole game from their seat? Maybe but what's the point in being a camera person when you can just put the phone away and bounce. But def not snapchat - most people use that to show off themselves and what they are doing. When at a game, your focus is on others. And, unless somebody knows you well, or you are an MLS celeb like Rachel Bonnetta, after about 14 seconds, nobody really cares that you are at a game watching.

[boozilla]

I shudder to think of a time where some of the "day-one" fans can't get into the stadium because someone who wants to watch the game through snapchat has taken their seat. Over the last 10 years a "Day One Fan" would have had plenty opportunities to buy seats and then relocate to even cheaper season tickets. I have no problem with tourists. TFC won't sell out every game, but the more spectators, the merrier.

[greatwhitenorf]

I don't think it's insecurities because they seem pretty arrogant about soccer but the traditional radio guys honestly have no fucking clue how to talk about it. They can't carry a conversation about it.

That made me laugh. Years ago, Argos voice Mike Hogan was employed on the Fan 590 and had a morning show. He confessed one morning that he was not a basketball guy and really didn't feel comfortable talking about the sport. Then the Raptors got hot, the station carried their games and chatted about them frequently and, waddya know, Hogan was talkin' hoops with an ease and comfort like he'd grown up ballin' at Oakwood.

They'll talk what they have to talk when there's a paycheck on the line. Progress has been made and you can see and hear a change regarding TFC, but it won't become a more easily referenced subject until they put out a winning team regularly. Then, we'll see some changes.

The worst thing about TFC on air - listening to Screamin'! Dan! Dunleeeavvvvyyyyy! call games on radio. Martin Tyler he ain't. Like ever. Buffalo looks a good fit for him.

[Pint]

Don't you think they would have discussed this with the pub management beforehand? Amazing...

Oh i'm sure a discussion would have taken place but having been involved in setting up a tfc pub crawl I know they are not formal discussions. For the traditional TFC bars it pretty easy as they know the $$$ that showing TFC can bring in but for a place that isn't a traditional TFC bar they probably will want to get a more formal contract done up next time.

My point was it can be very hard if not impossible to get TFC on a real sports if another event is taking place, hard for them to fully expect another bar to switch over.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The Local is the next in the line of pubs in the West End that don't appreciate regulars that come from their local sports stadium.

They aren't the first but they, The Local, are NEXT LEVEL STUPID to refuse to put a game on when the team goes out of their way to stage an event at the bar.

Last weekends game split the bar and it was pretty uneventful because the Raps did so poor but this upcoming weekend (If necessary) just remember that it's a big deal.

So like last weekend, when guys sit on our side of the pub and take off their jackets to reveal Raptors shirts KINDLY let them know that the "this side will have the TFC game on the big screens - just so they know..." and let them decide whether they want to move or not.

There was no agro last time. Let's keep it going during this busy Toronto Sports phase.:)

[Pint]

The Local is the next in the line of pubs in the West End that don't appreciate regulars that come from their local sports stadium.

They aren't the first but they, The Local, are NEXT LEVEL STUPID to refuse to put a game on when the team goes out of their way to stage an event at the bar.

Last weekends game split the bar and it was pretty uneventful because the Raps did so poor but this upcoming weekend (If necessary) just remember that it's a big deal.

So like last weekend, when guys sit on our side of the pub and take off their jackets to reveal Raptors shirts KINDLY let them know that the "this side will have the TFC game on the big screens - just so they know..." and let them decide whether they want to move or not.

There was no agro last time. Let's keep it going during this busy Toronto Sports phase.:)

I will never be a bigger raps fan than i will be friday night lol

[ManUtd4ever]

What really annoys me is when the news will discuss the jays, raptors, and leafs for 5-10 minutes going into deep analysis and then lastly..." oh, in other news, TFC won 2-0 last night" (shows a 5 second video highlight) and ends abruptly with " Now lets take a look at the weather forecast."

It's especially concerning considering that the parent companies of TSN and Sportsnet are majority shareholders of MLSE, and consequently, TFC. You would think that both media outlets would be increasing their coverage of TFC, but it's been business as usual.

[Areathrasher]

I was at the Local for the game on Saturday.

Once the TFC game started it was on the majority of tvs. The kept the Raptors game on some of the tvs. I was sitting at the bar and people were asking the barstaff to switch the TVs back but they all said that TFC had sponsored the bar for the game and it had to be on.
Caldwell and Dichio weren't there handing out anything - that I saw anyway. Chapman, Bloom, Hamilton and Simonin were there. Chapman did the prize draw and gave out prizes.

[stegosaurus]

I was at the Local for the game on Saturday.

Once the TFC game started it was on the majority of tvs. The kept the Raptors game on some of the tvs. I was sitting at the bar and people were asking the barstaff to switch the TVs back but they all said that TFC had sponsored the bar for the game and it had to be on.
Caldwell and Dichio weren't there handing out anything - that I saw anyway. Chapman, Bloom, Hamilton and Simonin were there. Chapman did the prize draw and gave out prizes.

The one at Bishop & Belcher ran smoothly (it seemed) with Caldwell and Zavaleta there handing out prizes.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I was at the Local for the game on Saturday.

Once the TFC game started it was on the majority of tvs. The kept the Raptors game on some of the tvs. I was sitting at the bar and people were asking the barstaff to switch the TVs back but they all said that TFC had sponsored the bar for the game and it had to be on.
Caldwell and Dichio weren't there handing out anything - that I saw anyway. Chapman, Bloom, Hamilton and Simonin were there. Chapman did the prize draw and gave out prizes.

Well that is a very different and more reasonable take on Sat at the Local. Thanks for sharing.

[james]

I was at the Local for the game on Saturday.

Once the TFC game started it was on the majority of tvs. The kept the Raptors game on some of the tvs. I was sitting at the bar and people were asking the barstaff to switch the TVs back but they all said that TFC had sponsored the bar for the game and it had to be on.
Caldwell and Dichio weren't there handing out anything - that I saw anyway. Chapman, Bloom, Hamilton and Simonin were there. Chapman did the prize draw and gave out prizes.


Alright that sounds completely different to the original story............It sounds like Local did respect the TFC fans in this story. I wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea then about Local considering it is probably technically the closest bar to BMO field (even tho there is other bars ever so close to Local as well) but I wouldn't want a bar to get blamed for not liking TFC fans when or if they did actually play the game for TFC fans!

[ronzilla]

I am betting Kurt would have muscle to get TFC on the front page of the sun with deep runs in the playoffs.

[OgtheDim]

Oh my gosh I may swoon.

CBC morning radio mentioned TFC for the first time, and it wasn't condescending.

[Pint]

Oh my gosh I may swoon.

CBC morning radio mentioned TFC for the first time, and it wasn't condescending.

Was it on purpose?

[Red4ever]

Actually one of boys was at the local and though a few tvs were on TFC, they refused to switch the sound.

They left and went to joes.

[Justin10000]

Alright that sounds completely different to the original story............It sounds like Local did respect the TFC fans in this story. I wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea then about Local considering it is probably technically the closest bar to BMO field (even tho there is other bars ever so close to Local as well) but I wouldn't want a bar to get blamed for not liking TFC fans when or if they did actually play the game for TFC fans!

Interesting, because what I heard from a fellow board member matches the first story.

[MightyDM]

that is crazy about Local....question is did the owners set this up and then the manager just messed it up because he is a "soccer hater" or did the owners them self just mess the whole thing up??? Maybe we should just avoid this place as much as possible. ( another 1 of our so called boycott's?? :facepalm: )

There is other bars now tho, you don't need to go to Local, still got Brazen Head, The Craft, Williams Landing and Shoeless Joe's all within a short walk of BMO field. ( I don't really like shoeless Joe's and it is the furthest of mentioned from the GO train but that location has always been good to TFC supporters).

joes is fantastic pre and post game, and for away games. Plus Joe supports the RPB strongly, we should support him.

[MightyDM]

Oh my gosh I may swoon.

CBC morning radio mentioned TFC for the first time, and it wasn't condescending.

matt Galloway was a season ticket holder in the south end. I think he gave up after Nelsens first year.

[Pint]

that is crazy about Local....question is did the owners set this up and then the manager just messed it up because he is a "soccer hater" or did the owners them self just mess the whole thing up??? Maybe we should just avoid this place as much as possible. ( another 1 of our so called boycott's?? :facepalm: )

There is other bars now tho, you don't need to go to Local, still got Brazen Head, The Craft, Williams Landing and Shoeless Joe's all within a short walk of BMO field. ( I don't really like shoeless Joe's and it is the furthest of mentioned from the GO train but that location has always been good to TFC supporters).

Yep please stick to these bars lol

[C.Ronaldo]

you guys can go where ever you want, but F Local.

I showed up with my 1 year at lunch, they looked at me like I was a nuisance for bringing a child. Kept seating others before us, after 25 minutes we left.

Next week, I hear a lady fuming at the coffee shop nearby, complaining how local wouldn't seat her because she had a stroller.

I'll take my money else where, no need to give those pretentious asshats my business

I prefer to "pre" eat at island foods anyways

[GuelphStorm2007]

Oh my gosh I may swoon.

CBC morning radio mentioned TFC for the first time, and it wasn't condescending.


I believe Matt Galloway the Host of Metro Morning is a Seasons Ticket Holder. and a big Supporter.

[Scotty74]

TFC has there supporters, we can sell 15k-25k, even 50k for a game at the sky dome. Our attendance at games is good, but our TV ratings are low compared to other sports. MLS is still a a niche market. It has grown hugely over the years to where MLS once was, it has some teams that have fantastic support and good attendances, but still we are more of a niche market. Even tho Soccer is widely played, it is much smaller scale of those who support a soccer club team, and even smaller a MLS club (Many people in the GTA and I assume across North America like Soccer, but only actually watch Euros/World Cups, or leagues like Premiership or Champions League.

I have worked at a few different places over the years since 2007, I have worked with a bunch of guys who only knew stuff about Baseball, Hockey, and Football (Or Raptors if they were doing well), soccer tho was never mentioned and looked at as a girls sport. They had no clue about any leagues or even knew about Toronto FC. I have worked with guys who like Soccer but only really know anything about big Euro Clubs, they didn't really take the time of day to give Toronto FC a chance. And I have worked with a few guys who take Toronto FC very serious and attend many games. As a whole tho, its shocking how little many people know about Toronto FC or MLS even tho I see tens of thousands on game day and the fact that it may not be as represented in the News Paper as Leafs and Jays, but still they are in there and even on front page from time to time, how do they not notice???. Over the years I have learned tho that who cares, sure I would like to see the league grow, but it's not the biggest deal if its not as popular as Baseball or Hockey in this city. In some ways I like it better that we are a more niche market, we all know we have the best atmosphere in this city, I have a blast at home games and fantastic away journeys (no other fans in this city have away sections exc. like TFC do). Its kind of cool when you know we are having a party and we don't need the whole city to know it!

I agree with all of this. Soccer in this city is a niche market, most locals will have a passing interest in the Jays or Leafs but not TFC. When TFC qualified for the play-offs last season for the first time in their history, the next day when I mentioned it at the office, all I was met with was blank stares, whereas when the Jays qualified, everyone was going nuts.

Plus there is the problem of younger kids who can easily watch live games from the big Euro leagues . I worked in Sportchek for a few months back in 2014 and lots of kids would come in looking for soccer gear. I would ask them who their favourite teams were and 90% would not answer TFC, it was always Real Madrid, Liverpool etc. When I asked if they liked TFC, alot would answer "no man, they suck".

I think winning will help a bit but I doubt soccer will ever have the same popularity in the city as hockey or baseball or even basketball.

[OgtheDim]

I believe Matt Galloway the Host of Metro Morning is a Seasons Ticket Holder. and a big Supporter.

Not anymore.

Whenever TFC is mentioned, which isn't often, he and the sports guy go with the "oh here we go again" narrative - its more frustrating then puckheads running the game itself down cause those two know the game well enough to know that not every game or season can be a win. There is no analysis beyond "Ugh, they didn't do well." or "Well we've seen this before."

Like many, they have given up on TFC due to what happened with Winter Mariner and Nelsen and and then the Bloody Big deal made them even more cynical and jaded. I don't expect sports journalists to be uncritical. I would appreciate a mention occasionally because it is still a major sports team in this city.


I admit today was different. Improved defence got mentionned. And I suspect the home opener will get a word or two.

If we lose this week and then lose to Dallas, I would fully expect TFC to not get mentioned again until October.

[Pint]

I find it funny at times that main stream media gets all excited at 50 jays or raps fans going to Det but TFC routinely sending hundreds or thousands to mtl gets nothing.

We will probably have 100+ in chicago later this year and it will be nothing.

[zeelaw]

I find it funny at times that main stream media gets all excited at 50 jays or raps fans going to Det but TFC routinely sending hundreds or thousands to mtl gets nothing.

Lol and realize it's the Raptors Front Office organizing a bus, filming all of the trip and then putting you in a commercial for it lol

[GuelphStorm2007]

Funny thing We are seeing TFC improving slowly, This maybe the best run of road games they played in there history yet very little mention of it in tw media but with the Jays ( I just find Baseball fucking Boring as hell) and the Raptors grabbing all the media attention it will be hard. If TFC continue winning and the Jays continue there slide it will interesting to see what the main stream media will say.

[GuelphStorm2007]

Of all of Toronto's Sport figures Giovinco has to be the best athelete on Toronto, but at the same time the most underated.

[Areathrasher]

And that's ok. I mean do we all want hit pieces in the press about his love of gelato or some such?

[Redcoe15]

Of all of Toronto's Sport figures Giovinco has to be the best athelete on Toronto, but at the same time the most underated.
Yup!

[mistercorporate]

As others have mentioned, if we make a deep playoff run, we'll get more respect. We win a Supporters Shield or better yet an MLS Cup, they it will be like Jays 2.0 up in this bizzatch..

We'll finally get bandwagon cases lol

[TFC/Everton]

As others have mentioned, if we make a deep playoff run, we'll get more respect. We win a Supporters Shield or better yet an MLS Cup, they it will be like Jays 2.0 up in this bizzatch..

We'll finally get bandwagon cases lol

I don't think we can reach a blue jays level of excitement, but we could reach a Raptors level. There are a lot of soccer fans in this city. We just need to give them a reason to cheer.

[habstfc]

I just don't think soccer in general is very popular. Kids play it in summer to keep fit and busy and its cheap to play. World Cups and Euros is all about nationalism. North American's look at it as a sissy sport. All that rolling around and diving doesn't help that cause. I don't really care though. I grew up on it and always loved the game.

[cdnorman]

TFC is always going to be a tough sell for the early season. We are competing with hockey and basketball and we simply can't. Torontonians don't link local football play to spring.

What would be better is if TFC starts anchoring itself to the excitement of the Premier League or Champions League and getting marketing set around that. Too often we don't build the momentum until the summer and that's when Canadians typically think more of soccer -- think World Cup, Olympics.

We're getting there, but with 9+ years of futility we need to build the trust of fans. Look at the Raptors: they took a while to really capture the imagination of the city and sustain it and that was done largely by 1) winning (as said before) and 2) leveraging its star power (also mentioned). We can do both. We've done the second pretty well and now we need to do the first.

[Prof]

I just don't think soccer in general is very popular. Kids play it in summer to keep fit and busy and its cheap to play. World Cups and Euros is all about nationalism. North American's look at it as a sissy sport. All that rolling around and diving doesn't help that cause. I don't really care though. I grew up on it and always loved the game.

I have played hockey, and soccer at a vey high level and high school basketball and football. By far soccer is the most physically demanding. Not even close. The sissy sports are the ones that need armour for protection.

[boozilla]

I don't think we can reach a blue jays level of excitement, but we could reach a Raptors level. Jurassic Park at BMO? Nope. The North American sports brain remains conditioned by multi-game playoffs. Outside the NFL, one or two elimination games at the end of the season generate nowhere near the drama/ excitement as a 7 game series. In a proper football league, everyone plays each other once away and home, while the team with the most points wins.

[OgtheDim]

...In a proper football league, everyone plays each other once away and home, while the team with the most points wins.


They also don't fly all the way to Portland for a game, with Portland flying farther for a game 4 days before that one. The geography in this league makes a home and away approach impossible.

[BritSOL]

In a proper football league, everyone plays each other once away and home, while the team with the most points wins.

I try to think of MLS as being similar to the format of the UEFA Champions league. Group stages to start off with (MLS conferences), and then the knockout stages (MLS playoffs).

[ryan]

Jurassic Park at BMO? Nope. The North American sports brain remains conditioned by multi-game playoffs. Outside the NFL, one or two elimination games at the end of the season generate nowhere near the drama/ excitement as a 7 game series. In a proper football league, everyone plays each other once away and home, while the team with the most points wins.

Sorry but I find these types of comments to be tremendously wrong. There's no one way to have a league.

I can't disagree with a balanced schedule being the best, but a league vs a league + playoff is simply just an opinion or preference, not a matter of being proper and unproper.

Is Champs League unproper because it's a table then knockout? Surely not.


As for the conditioning of the NA sports fan, it'll take time. You can't rush the adaptation and attachment to the team, league and the overall sport.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Jurassic Park at BMO? Nope. The North American sports brain remains conditioned by multi-game playoffs. Outside the NFL, one or two elimination games at the end of the season generate nowhere near the drama/ excitement as a 7 game series. In a proper football league, everyone plays each other once away and home, while the team with the most points wins.

Weird post. I understand both points but the opinion overall doesn't really lead to one or the other.

Multi-game playoffs - Agreed. They are known because playoff fans are told about it. The reasoning behind playoffs is getting those entry level/part time supporters into the fun without committing to a season of ups and downs. But as for the number 7 I gotta say, I thought Bball was still best of 5 in the first round. Just pointing out the number of games isn't that all important since those getting interested aka playoff fever just need to be told what they're watching to get into it.

But I don't get you're proper football stance. Are you of the mind they should give up on playoffs altogether? Because everything else in your post says they should make playoffs LONGER.:noidea:

[GBV]

I just don't think soccer in general is very popular. Kids play it in summer to keep fit and busy and its cheap to play. World Cups and Euros is all about nationalism. North American's look at it as a sissy sport. All that rolling around and diving doesn't help that cause. I don't really care though. I grew up on it and always loved the game.

I know lots of people who call it a "sissy" sport. The best is when these people are baseball fans. HELLO!?

[GBV]

Jurassic Park at BMO? Nope. The North American sports brain remains conditioned by multi-game playoffs. Outside the NFL, one or two elimination games at the end of the season generate nowhere near the drama/ excitement as a 7 game series. In a proper football league, everyone plays each other once away and home, while the team with the most points wins.

As it should be. Artificial entertainment is annoying. I want the best team to win, not the "hottest" at the time.

[Fort York Redcoat]

As it should be. Artificial entertainment is annoying. I want the best team to win, not the "hottest" at the time.

It'll be another couple decades to grow this attitude if ever. Having a league with pussplops and a domestic cup would be redundant elsewhere but here it's accommodation for all fans/support. At least the league rewards for winning Supporters Shield. Baby steps...

[FIAF]

Jurassic Park at BMO? Nope. The North American sports brain remains conditioned by multi-game playoffs. Outside the NFL, one or two elimination games at the end of the season generate nowhere near the drama/ excitement as a 7 game series. In a proper football league, everyone plays each other once away and home, while the team with the most points wins.

7 game series are incredibly boring. It sucks when teams step off the gas just because they can. In soccer you must always play like it is a game 7. Besides the only reason they do those series is for the $$$.

[Beach_Red]

It'll be another couple decades to grow this attitude if ever. Having a league with pussplops and a domestic cup would be redundant elsewhere but here it's accommodation for all fans/support. At least the league rewards for winning Supporters Shield. Baby steps...

The trend does seem to be more towards the "event" game, the World Cup Final, the Champions Legue final, whatever. More likely the future we be a few big-money teams in a global champions league not bothering with games against small markets. Why should sports be different from any other business with the same owners?

[SoccMan2]

I'll tell you the level of excitement for TFC, after the game TSN who just did the game went straight to Sports Center, they finally showed the TFC highlights after almost 45 minutes into the show lol, quickly going through the highlights lol, there is your level of excitement lol, no one cares apart for the few souls of us on these boards.

[TFC07]

I'll tell you the level of excitement for TFC, after the game TSN who just did the game went straight to Sports Center, they finally showed the TFC highlights after almost 45 minutes into the show lol, quickly going through the highlights lol, there is your level of excitement lol, no one cares apart for the few souls of us on these boards.

TSN is local Toronto TV station?

I personally except to see local TV media covering home opener and talking to fans on Saturday at BMO field.

That being said, MLSE isn't building any hype (through advertisement on TV) at all. So you can't blame your average Joe who isn't too excited about TFC right now. Also, this long road trip isn't helping either.

[ronzilla]

Wow look at the crowd at Jurassic park waiting to welcome home the Reds. In the meantime they are watching a raptors game.

[mistercorporate]

If we won theyd show us. Thats just the way it goes, deep playoff run needed to gather viewership and media eyeballs. Just look at the Raptors and Jays.

[BelfastBoy]

I'll tell you the level of excitement for TFC, after the game TSN who just did the game went straight to Sports Center, they finally showed the TFC highlights after almost 45 minutes into the show lol, quickly going through the highlights lol, there is your level of excitement lol, no one cares apart for the few souls of us on these boards.

Its comparable excitement level to that of the excitement level surrounding the Argos since 1991.

[james]

Lol and realize it's the Raptors Front Office organizing a bus, filming all of the trip and then putting you in a commercial for it lol

they made such a big deal about a bus load of Raptor fans driving to an away game...filmed it, advertised, made it look like it was the craziest thing, yet TFC have been doing it on our own for years, with multiple bus loads, with 200-500-1,500 even 3,000+ to away games, and nothing is mentioned (and in many ways im happy we aren't advertised for it). We support are team, we don't need everybody to know about it. Ya we know we travel better then all you other Toronto sport fans, but I don't care if you know it or not! :scarf:

[zeelaw]

I just don't think soccer in general is very popular. Kids play it in summer to keep fit and busy and its cheap to play. World Cups and Euros is all about nationalism. North American's look at it as a sissy sport. All that rolling around and diving doesn't help that cause. I don't really care though. I grew up on it and always loved the game.
#Viewsfrom2006

[C.Ronaldo]

And that's ok. I mean do we all want hit pieces in the press about his love of gelato or some such?

vespa needs to sponsor him though

[C.Ronaldo]

ouch!

don't need to be so mean

[TravelPat]

The one thing that is going to be tough for TFC for a few years at least in terms of building a bandwagon effect is the one game nature of the playoffs. The Raptors - who have been around for 20 years or so have the advantage of a 7 game series. I'm sure we will see TV ratings sometime tomorrow but - after averaging around 500,000 TV viewers for the first 4 games of their series I suspect Friday's Game 6 was good on TSN and last night's Game 7 on Sportsnet was probably excellent for them.

CFL football has been around for over 100 years - so the build up to their one game playoffs are part of something sports fans in these parts grew up with.

When (how's that for confidence) TFC make the playoffs again this year - how many playoff games will they have to win in the playoffs before a bandwagon effect kicks in?

[Pint]

The one thing that is going to be tough for TFC for a few years at least in terms of building a bandwagon effect is the one game nature of the playoffs. The Raptors - who have been around for 20 years or so have the advantage of a 7 game series. I'm sure we will see TV ratings sometime tomorrow but - after averaging around 500,000 TV viewers for the first 4 games of their series I suspect Friday's Game 6 was good on TSN and last night's Game 7 on Sportsnet was probably excellent for them.

CFL football has been around for over 100 years - so the build up to their one game playoffs are part of something sports fans in these parts grew up with.

When (how's that for confidence) TFC make the playoffs again this year - how many playoff games will they have to win in the playoffs before a bandwagon effect kicks in?

My best guess would be if we hosted the 2nd leg of the conference finals, would take a series and a win at home in the previous round to start to build up the hype.

At the end of the day it's the consistent build up of excitement over a number of years that will build the bandwagon not just 1 year.

[TFC07]

they made such a big deal about a bus load of Raptor fans driving to an away game...filmed it, advertised, made it look like it was the craziest thing, yet TFC have been doing it on our own for years, with multiple bus loads, with 200-500-1,500 even 3,000+ to away games, and nothing is mentioned (and in many ways im happy we aren't advertised for it). We support are team, we don't need everybody to know about it. Ya we know we travel better then all you other Toronto sport fans, but I don't care if you know it or not! :scarf:

Actually, MLSE FO jump on bandwagon this year after how Raptor fans invaded Detroit last year and made it "West Air Canada Centre". Raptors fans have been travelling to Detroit in large numbers for past few years where fans organized it themselves.

I suspect some of these Raptor fans happen to be TFC fans (like myself) who have travel to TFC away games in the past. So yes, TFC/soccer culture is having some influence on Raptor fans which is a good thing, right?

[Red CB Toronto]

Its all about building up momentum, thus creating buzz among the every day folk who want to be apart of whatever is hot at that moment. TFC has had very few of those moment. There have been things like the Champions League against LA at the Dome where well priced tickets and Becks coming to town packed the dome !!

[TravelPat]

Well for now the Raptors definitely seem to be building up a massive bandwagon that is going to make it hard for TFC to get noticed much right now. Last night's game the Raptors most watched game ever - averaging 1.53 million, peaking at 2.63 million late in the game with 4.4 million Canadians having watched at least part of the game.

[notthesun]

Well for now the Raptors definitely seem to be building up a massive bandwagon that is going to make it hard for TFC to get noticed much right now. Last night's game the Raptors most watched game ever - averaging 1.53 million, peaking at 2.63 million late in the game with 4.4 million Canadians having watched at least part of the game.

Let's not forget these are the same Raptors that just 3 weeks ago were drawing 177k viewers: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/amid-bleak-tv-sports-returns--blue-jays-ratings-one-of-the-few-bright-spots-202151231.html

This city just wants a winner. If we have a strong season and go on a run in the playoffs it's a virtual guarantee our numbers will soar as well. Step 1 is to win our home opener this weekend.

[SoccMan2]

I just don't see it even if TFC go on a run and make it to the MLS Cup, I don't see a Jays or even a Raptors bandwagon happening for a few reasons. TFC get's basically Toronto Rock coverage in the mainstream media, therefore, there are still vast majority of people in the Toronto area who have no clue what a TFC is and I have met many of them lol. Therefore, if TFC go on a run there will be not enough people with interest for TFC to garner even the type of interest the Raptors are getting never mind what the Jays got. Moreover, many sports fans have an idea that the MLS is not one of the big leagues in the world like the NBA and MLB is so that will also factor in the amount of interest that is built. In addition there is still a big hate on for soccer with many here in this country and that will play a part too. There will be a bit of a spike in interest if TFC go on a run but nothing like it was for the Jays and is now for the Raptors not even close unfortunately.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I didn't see any people saying we could have a Jays or Raps level bandwagon this year. Just seeing the numbers rise in excitement level if they are considered winners. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[mistercorporate]

Even I watched an Argos game on TV when they made the Grey Cup finals vs Calgary a few years ago, the one and only CFL game I've watched. If we make a deep playoff run or win silverware, more people will start following.

[TFC07]

Even I watched an Argos game on TV when they made the Grey Cup finals vs Calgary a few years ago, the one and only CFL game I've watched. If we make a deep playoff run or win silverware, more people will start following.

Agreed.

That being said, MLSE doing a piss poor job of promoting TFC right now. There's no advertisement to get people excited about TFC this season.

[zeelaw]

Agreed.

That being said, MLSE doing a piss poor job of promoting TFC right now. There's no advertisement to get people excited about TFC this season.

Meh, better than some stupid slogan shit. Let the team do the talking and focus on the field. That's the most effective marketing.

[Joe Kool]

Too much excitement too quick...just like the first few years....means big jump in ticket prices as they move to the Anselmi's supply and demand model again because MLSE wants to cash in on the excitement. I would rather have reasonable ticket prices and continue to enjoy the game with you fine folks. I would, however, like to see the stadium full every match at kickoff and throughout the entire game for every game so an increase in excitement would be great but up to a point. Is that wrong for me to think like that? I don't have alot of cash to spend but I used to go to Raptor games with my family in the cheaper seats alot. I got the same seats every year pretty much. They went from $10 to $12 to $15 to $20 and this year to almost $40 when I checked at the start of the season. All because the Raps started doing better. I know price hikes are inevitable but the MLSE model is too aggressive in my mind when they suddenly have a playoff level team on their hands.

[ronzilla]

5 years ago, if I asked friends to go to a tfc game, they would give me a deep long stare like I was fucked in the head.Today these same friends are now liking tfc related content on fb.

Slowly but surely, the fan base is growing. It's not as bad as everyone thinks.

[eustacchio]

5 years ago, if I asked friends to go to a tfc game, they would give me a deep long stare like I was fucked in the head.Today these same friends are now liking tfc related content on fb.

Slowly but surely, the fan base is growing. It's not as bad as everyone thinks.

I find it's the opposite with my friends - they used to love going to games, now you can't drag them out.

[mistercorporate]

I find it's the opposite with my friends - they used to love going to games, now you can't drag them out.

They're the batch from 2007-2009, the jaded ones. The newer batch from 2014-2016 who were waiting for the quality of play and players to improve is coming in now. Patience :), let's get these new fans to stick and more will follow.

[mr k]

80% of the available tix for Canada women vs Brazil in June at BMO are already gone. 300k watched Leicester vs Manu on Sunday morning at 9 am. The interest for football is there but unlike the Jays or Raps or Leafs, TFC has no monopoly.

[StokeciTFC]

80% of the available tix for Canada women vs Brazil in June at BMO are already gone. 300k watched Leicester vs Manu on Sunday morning at 9 am. The interest for football is there but unlike the Jays or Raps or Leafs, TFC has no monopoly.

True that, but the same could be said for the examples you quote. Before the Jays and the Raps came to Toronto, there was interest for baseball and basketball and fans would've supported teams from outside the area. The Jays and Raps were able to build on that interest, but with the added advantage of those sports being well-established in, or even native to North America.

Soccer, I would say, seems now established in this country and south of the border. It just needs to push on to reach the next level of becoming 'mainstream', which it will once there is national team success and a better quality MLS. I think it will go that way with the general trajectory of MLS and particular the USMNT. Changing demographics are also an important factor.

It's going to be a slowish process, but as MLS increases in popularity, MLS teams will begin to usurp and replace support for the big European and Latin American teams slowly turning the city into a TFC monopoly.

[Fort York Redcoat]

True that, but the same could be said for the examples you quote. Before the Jays and the Raps came to Toronto, there was interest for baseball and basketball and fans would've supported teams from outside the area. The Jays and Raps were able to build on that interest, but with the added advantage of those sports being well-established in, or even native to North America.

Soccer, I would say, seems now established in this country and south of the border. It just needs to push on to reach the next level of becoming 'mainstream', which it will once there is national team success and a better quality MLS. I think it will go that way with the general trajectory of MLS and particular the USMNT. Changing demographics are also an important factor.

It's going to be a slowish process, but as MLS increases in popularity, MLS teams will begin to usurp and replace support for the big European and Latin American teams slowly turning the city into a TFC monopoly.

You can continue this example with the Womens Friendly popularity (outside of the Supporters community, unfortunately, currently) and even the Mens don't need success on the pitch but the right event treatment and they're a sellout game.

Casual fans don't even need a winner. They want an event.

[Red CB Toronto]

You can continue this example with the Womens Friendly popularity (outside of the Supporters community, unfortunately, currently) and even the Mens don't need success on the pitch but the right event treatment and they're a sellout game.

Casual fans don't even need a winner. They want an event.

This is a big event town, thats what the Blue Jays achived last August onward, The Raptors are and for a TFC example, the Champions League match vs. LA at the Dome. The Winter Classic will be one, its the same crowd that gravitates to things like TIFF, a place to be seen.

The women seem to be a very different animal compared to the CMNT. You just do not see the boys youth teams come out in the same way the girls do for the women, even the U20 World Cup in 2013 was a draw. Very few things keep the interest in them at the same level, its ups and downs as it moves along.

[C.Ronaldo]

apparently rap got 1.5 mill viewers but what got even more, the damn ping pong ball event for the draft.

what the hell?

[OgtheDim]

apparently rap got 1.5 mill viewers but what got even more, the damn ping pong ball event for the draft.

what the hell?

That event is all that Leaf and Oiler Nation lived for all season - it was their playoff game.

Sad.

[Pint]

So you mean if TFC had a shot at the best 18 year old on the planet and it was determined by some sort of spectacle you wouldn't tune in? I agree the draft lottery has become far to big but it has the chance to be franchise altering for the next 15 years.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is a big event town, thats what the Blue Jays achived last August onward, The Raptors are and for a TFC example, the Champions League match vs. LA at the Dome. The Winter Classic will be one, its the same crowd that gravitates to things like TIFF, a place to be seen.

The women seem to be a very different animal compared to the CMNT. You just do not see the boys youth teams come out in the same way the girls do for the women, even the U20 World Cup in 2013 was a draw. Very few things keep the interest in them at the same level, its ups and downs as it moves along.

Many boys teams coaches and managers don't rate the National squad. It's a huge issue. They do it for tiny trophies at their own level with the hopes a kid will get to a famous club without seeing the National issue.

That has little to do with Vancouver's recent success, though. All event, there.

Girls can grow up to play but the draw to club fame and fortune just isn't strong so they do it right by their National team. And they want to attend because they are ranked higher, of course.

[Pint]

Many boys teams coaches and managers don't rate the National squad. It's a huge issue. They do it for tiny trophies at their own level with the hopes a kid will get to a famous club without seeing the National issue.

That has little to do with Vancouver's recent success, though. All event, there.

Girls can grow up to play but the draw to club fame and fortune just isn't strong so they do it right by their National team. And they want to attend because they are ranked higher, of course.

Girls are told to look to Sinclair as a role model, a Hero for our nation but Boys are taught to look at Messi and Ronaldo and to ignore anyone who has come out of Canada.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So you mean if TFC had a shot at the best 18 year old on the planet and it was determined by some sort of spectacle you wouldn't tune in? I agree the draft lottery has become far to big but it has the chance to be franchise altering for the next 15 years.

If more tuned into an MLS lottery than a playoff game I would think it extremely sad. Also an example of propped up event numbers. Yeah, they all watched it but how many of those will tune in to even half the games next year?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Girls are told to look to Sinclair as a role model, a Hero for our nation but Boys are taught to look at Messi and Ronaldo and to ignore anyone who has come out of Canada.

I don't dispute that. It's backwards thinking, though.

[Pint]

If more tuned into an MLS lottery than a playoff game I would think it extremely sad. Also an example of propped up event numbers. Yeah, they all watched it but how many of those will tune in to even half the games next year?

To be fair the markets that tuned in didn't have a team to subsequently watch, with the way our local side did i would expect tv numbers to take a large leap next year.

More of the point was if we had a chance at a 18 year old messi/Ronaldo etc TFC fans would tune into whatever dog and pony show determined if they came here.

[Pint]

I don't dispute that. It's backwards thinking, though.

I had a line in their that said "This is completely right" then went onto my point but somehow it must have gotten deleted. Somehow we need the mentality of boys coaches to change and have some respect for the national side.

[Fort York Redcoat]

To be fair the markets that tuned in didn't have a team to subsequently watch, with the way our local side did i would expect tv numbers to take a large leap next year.

More of the point was if we had a chance at a 18 year old messi/Ronaldo etc TFC fans would tune into whatever dog and pony show determined if they came here.

Ah I see. More of the biggest loser teams were watching than one teams playoff team. Yet they ARE marketing Raptors to all of Canada.

And we DO know that no NA Messi would enter a draft, though.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I had a line in their that said "This is completely right" then went onto my point but somehow it must have gotten deleted. Somehow we need the mentality of boys coaches to change and have some respect for the national side.

Agreed and it's not as if we should be teaching our boys to hold our players higher than the players actual ability. Coaches just need to acknowledge that without showing support for the National team they won't be breeding the same loyalty and respect they take for granted in those foreign examples.

A Messi/Ronaldo example is popular whether it's for their club our country. Even more so for International tourneys when the players are in a bigger spotlight.

It's short sighted-ness.

[Pint]

Ah I see. More of the biggest loser teams were watching than one teams playoff team. Yet they ARE marketing Raptors to all of Canada.

And we DO know that no NA Messi would enter a draft, though.

We sit here during transfer window mashing the refresh button because a rumor popped up about player X, we do that because its a large avenue for us improve our club. People watching the draft lottery are just doing the same thing except its happening in real time.

[OgtheDim]

I don't know any MLS team that hopes for last place to get a draft position and spends all season praying their team gets there. That happens in the NHL and the NBA and to a certain extant in the NFL.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We sit here during transfer window mashing the refresh button because a rumor popped up about player X, we do that because its a large avenue for us improve our club. People watching the draft lottery are just doing the same thing except its happening in real time.

I think you're well aware it's the HOW each gets their phenom is what's in contention here. It's ok. We're all following a NA league but we don't all agree with how they're run.

[Pint]

I think you're well aware it's the HOW each gets their phenom is what's in contention here. It's ok. We're all following a NA league but we don't all agree with how they're run.

Very true and I would love it if the leafs were able to build a development system with the top talents from the GTA but alas we just had to hope some ping pong balls fell right so we could get a kid from phoenix.

Some people watched that for the same reason some of us will stream the 2's game tonight

[cdnorman]

Agreed.

That being said, MLSE doing a piss poor job of promoting TFC right now. There's no advertisement to get people excited about TFC this season.

TFC's problem is that it is part of MLSE and staff are assigned between the clubs. We don't have much in the way of dedicated assigned staff that aren't doing work for the Raptors and / or Leafs or Marlies at the same time. All you need to see is how Real Sports gutted their entire store for Raptors stuff, not a single TFC item in it as if it can't manage to walk and chew gum at the same time. They just can't manage to do the promo stuff well when the other clubs in MLSE are in play. Once Raptors are out of the playoffs and well ahead of Leafs training camp we'll see some decent promotion, although we'll already be into June at that point.

[StokeciTFC]

How much does MLSE need to do to promote TFC right now? There's an eight page spread in the Star on Saturday that will reach wide readership and besides, we saw elsewhere that four of the first five home games are approaching sellouts, too. If MLSE can can sellouts with little publicity then why go out and spend more? TFC is doing just fine as far as exposure and interest is concerned. We just have to be realistic where the club or the sport stands in terms of the Leafs and the Raps. But it will get there.

[TFC07]

How much does MLSE need to do to promote TFC right now? There's an eight page spread in the Star on Saturday that will reach wide readership and besides, we saw elsewhere that four of the first five home games are approaching sellouts, too. If MLSE can can sellouts with little publicity then why go out and spend more? TFC is doing just fine as far as exposure and interest is concerned. We just have to be realistic where the club or the sport stands in terms of the Leafs and the Raps. But it will get there.

It's also about TV ratings and increasing TFC brand in general. TFC usually don't have problems selling tickets for most of their 10 year history, but TV ratings always been piss poor to a point that people rather get up early morning on weekend to watch two English clubs play against each other than watching local soccer team playing on afternoon or evening time.

Lack of TV ads and online advisement (who reads newspaper these days?) is puzzling especially when we got league MVP on our team who happens to be one of most exciting players in the league.

[TFC07]

TFC's problem is that it is part of MLSE and staff are assigned between the clubs. We don't have much in the way of dedicated assigned staff that aren't doing work for the Raptors and / or Leafs or Marlies at the same time. All you need to see is how Real Sports gutted their entire store for Raptors stuff, not a single TFC item in it as if it can't manage to walk and chew gum at the same time. They just can't manage to do the promo stuff well when the other clubs in MLSE are in play. Once Raptors are out of the playoffs and well ahead of Leafs training camp we'll see some decent promotion, although we'll already be into June at that point.

I am sure a billion dollar organization like MLSE can afford to hire enough staff to manage marketing for all their teams. So I don't buy that argument especially given TFC isn't exactly corporate friendly compare to Leafs and Raptors (to certain extent). TFC requires completely different approach to market their brand so MLSE needs to take it more seriously especially when they put in so much money into TFC and BMO field (a stadium they don't even own). MLSE can't afford TFC to fail at this point.

[james]

It's also about TV ratings and increasing TFC brand in general. TFC usually don't have problems selling tickets for most of their 10 year history, but TV ratings always been piss poor to a point that people rather get up early morning on weekend to watch two English clubs play against each other than watching local soccer team playing on afternoon or evening time.

Lack of TV ads and online advisement (who reads newspaper these days?) is puzzling especially when we got league MVP on our team who happens to be one of most exciting players in the league.

You are right, it is the TV viewership that is piss poor. As I and many others have mentioned a good portion of TFC fans actually attend games. Its what I love about TFC, its a old school way of supporting a team....majority of fans actually going to the matches live rather than watching on TV. We have good attendance but piss poor viewership on TV, and it is a puzzle how to fix that. Today's markets like NFL, NHL NBA, exc, there is more money in TV ratings then actual ticket sales to attend the game live. But as I said, its cool for the game to grow, but some point as a fan, just be happy to attend games, support the team and who cares if everybody else doesn't know who TFC is!

[james]

I mentioned in this forum topic about people I have worked with over the years from soccer haters, Euro snobs to people who do not even know who Toronto FC is, but also working with a few actual TFC fans. Just today at work (a place where a few Toronto FC fans work with me, more than my previous locations) I mentioned to a person who I don't normally talk sports with but mentioned I was going to the Toronto FC game Saturday and that is why I am off, they didn't know who they were, even better, they didn't know about the stadium despite the fact just last week I know they drove right by it on the QEW and actually drive by it on occasion to visit a friend in Downtown Toronto.....sometimes the lack of knowing of what is around you in your city is surprising, especially something that big!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I am sure a billion dollar organization like MLSE can afford to hire enough staff to manage marketing for all their teams. So I don't buy that argument especially given TFC isn't exactly corporate friendly compare to Leafs and Raptors (to certain extent). TFC requires completely different approach to market their brand so MLSE needs to take it more seriously especially when they put in so much money into TFC and BMO field (a stadium they don't even own). MLSE can't afford TFC to fail at this point.

No he's right. MLSE is sharing workloads between teams. But you're spot on about them missing the boat on League MVP. That won't happen every year but they make a bigger DEAL over a players purchase than his efforts and achievements. Telling...

[Fort York Redcoat]

How much does MLSE need to do to promote TFC right now? There's an eight page spread in the Star on Saturday that will reach wide readership and besides, we saw elsewhere that four of the first five home games are approaching sellouts, too. If MLSE can can sellouts with little publicity then why go out and spend more? TFC is doing just fine as far as exposure and interest is concerned. We just have to be realistic where the club or the sport stands in terms of the Leafs and the Raps. But it will get there.

http://flaviomcarvalho.com/content/03-projects/tfc-jermain-defoe/tfc013.jpg


League MVP and first playoff appearance is bigger than this^ yet this was pasted on every construction wall, and even bus shelters downtown.

PS- did they turn BMO 90 degrees or put the skyline int he lake for this pic??g:D

[StokeciTFC]

http://flaviomcarvalho.com/content/03-projects/tfc-jermain-defoe/tfc013.jpg


League MVP and first playoff appearance is bigger than this^ yet this was pasted on every construction wall, and even bus shelters downtown.

PS- did they turn BMO 90 degrees or put the skyline int he lake for this pic??g:D
Yup, the 'geography' of that image is a little creative for sure.

And you are correct, the achievements of last season are way bigger than the potential of the season ahead of the Defoe campaign, and much more real, too for that matter. But they got burned by that campaign which may go some way towards explaining their reticence to go balls out right now.

personally, I think they aren't doing so because they are expecting the investment in the team to do the talking and create an organic buzz. We're all here widely in agreement that this is our best lineup ever and hope, nay expect a playoff appearance this season. A risky approach I think, but understandable.

[cdnorman]

I am sure a billion dollar organization like MLSE can afford to hire enough staff to manage marketing for all their teams. So I don't buy that argument especially given TFC isn't exactly corporate friendly compare to Leafs and Raptors (to certain extent). TFC requires completely different approach to market their brand so MLSE needs to take it more seriously especially when they put in so much money into TFC and BMO field (a stadium they don't even own). MLSE can't afford TFC to fail at this point.

You're right about the financial risk, which is why it's really quite baffling they don't invest more in the personnel to support the team. My ticket representative introduced himself with a questionnaire for his 'clients' (the same goes to everyone) and it asked about my favourite moment at the ACC. I responded with my BMO moment, but was rather dismayed that they couldn't get that simple thing right. I'm not slagging MLSE as I've actually been very happy as a season seat holder with their service, but those staff are often assigned to multiple sports at the same time and that means less attention to TFC by definition.

What it means is that the focus on building the team in the community, with partners and fans is divided out and that is going to lead to a weaker brand profile as a result -- unless media will carry the day (like the Raptors) or tradition (like the Leafs). If your MLSE rep doesn't know the club inside out and the BMO experience it's probably because they're attending to Raptors, Marlies and Leafs all at the same time.

If you look at most European clubs (and I'm not being a Euro snob here) or those markets where there isn't shared ownership between sports properties like Portland, for example, it's not surprising that the level of support is so much more solid (maybe not bigger, but solid). Here, we have some die hards like us, a softer middle, and then the response that @james had with someone not even knowing TFC exists. I do think it will change, but it means winning and keeping a solid core of a team (including a coach -- which comes with winning) to be the face of that club.

We're on the way.

[Initial B]

It's also about TV ratings and increasing TFC brand in general. TFC usually don't have problems selling tickets for most of their 10 year history, but TV ratings always been piss poor to a point that people rather get up early morning on weekend to watch two English clubs play against each other than watching local soccer team playing on afternoon or evening time.
As a counter-point to this, I mentioned to my son that Leicester and Man U were playing the other day and asked if he wanted to watch. He said he wasn't that interested in EPL anymore - he would rather watch MLS. I'm thinking in about 10 years we are going to see a big shift in numbers once their demographic starts being noticed by sports broadcasters.

[CanadaLFC]

Just saw that the hosts of Breakfast Television wearing TFC scarves on air and doing some news segments from BMO.

Probably more to do with the new stadium, but it's something.

EDIT: Heard Bez was on earlier.

[OgtheDim]

FWIW


https://twitter.com/FrankFerragine/status/728539724927934464

[C.Ronaldo]

FWIW


https://twitter.com/FrankFerragine/status/728539724927934464


oh wow, weve made the big time, Franky Fukn Flower, OG Mofioso

next up, cover of

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Canadian_Gardening_May_2010.jpg

[mistercorporate]

lol..


oh wow, weve made the big time, Franky Fukn Flower, OG Mofioso

next up, cover of

[OgtheDim]

I'm laughing too



& that show is seen by lots of people.


Can't stand it myself and it is Rogers owned so its all in house promotions but...hey.....gotta take the PR where you can.

[robotfighter]

This is kind of a boring thread for one about excitement.

If Toronto FC is ever to become a big deal then the whole approach to marketing itself needs to change.

In my opinion, Toronto FC should have the most diverse and multicultural fan base in the city. They don't. The Raptors do. The Raptors are building a monopoly on the future while Toronto FC twiddles it's thumbs and seemingly gets pushed around by the Argos. Maybe they are hoping Argos fan will become TFC fans? It's ridiculous. In 2031, Stats Can projects 67% of this city to be a visible minority. 25% to be South Asian. Those people are not natural hockey, baseball, football fans. Hockey has had its peak moment. The Jays have the same crowd momentarily infused by hipsters. CFL is going the way of its fans...the grave. Yet Toronto FC fans act scared of them. The future is there if the organization has the mind to take it. Get out into the communities. Sell the diversity of soccer. We the North works because it celebrates our diversity while binding us all together. For the cost relative to other sports MLS is ideal for immigrants who come from places where soccer is already huge. Bingo. Forget Frankie Flowers, this shi@ needs some Nav Bhatia.

Its cool that there is a passionate fan base arguing over the colours of the walls but that just screams insular and parochial. There should be a mosaic of chants and fans and cultures that I just don't see. You want excitement? Be exciting.

[Captain]

I'm actually very disappointed in the lack of hype in this city around the TFC home opener.

I wish I had just one relative or friend that has the same un-healthy obsession with TFC that I have. Just last night I had a conversation with my brother-in-law (who is a total hockey junky) about my daughter's new boyfriend and about how she will slowly turn him into a soccer fan. My brother-in-laws response was "I guess if he doesn't mind being bored". This was right after I had a whole conversation with him about how much I was looking forward to Saturdays game.

Thankfully I have this forum to come to.

[mistercorporate]

lol Canada was late to the globalization locomotive. We only really opened up culturally after NAFTA, a soccer culture is where we're headed, albeit with a 20% or so annual growth rate. It's not going to happen overnight but I'm confident the next 2 years will be transformative.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is kind of a boring thread for one about excitement.

If Toronto FC is ever to become a big deal then the whole approach to marketing itself needs to change.

In my opinion, Toronto FC should have the most diverse and multicultural fan base in the city. They don't. The Raptors do. The Raptors are building a monopoly on the future while Toronto FC twiddles it's thumbs and seemingly gets pushed around by the Argos. Maybe they are hoping Argos fan will become TFC fans? It's ridiculous. In 2031, Stats Can projects 67% of this city to be a visible minority. 25% to be South Asian. Those people are not natural hockey, baseball, football fans. Hockey has had its peak moment. The Jays have the same crowd momentarily infused by hipsters. CFL is going the way of its fans...the grave. Yet Toronto FC fans act scared of them. The future is there if the organization has the mind to take it. Get out into the communities. Sell the diversity of soccer. We the North works because it celebrates our diversity while binding us all together. For the cost relative to other sports MLS is ideal for immigrants who come from places where soccer is already huge. Bingo. Forget Frankie Flowers, this shi@ needs some Nav Bhatia.

Its cool that there is a passionate fan base arguing over the colours of the walls but that just screams insular and parochial. There should be a mosaic of chants and fans and cultures that I just don't see. You want excitement? Be exciting.

http://www.audienceseverywhere.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Gladiator.jpg

Tell us more of "should be's", robot. We're all here for you.

[Onyx]

This is kind of a boring thread for one about excitement.

If Toronto FC is ever to become a big deal then the whole approach to marketing itself needs to change.

In my opinion, Toronto FC should have the most diverse and multicultural fan base in the city. They don't. The Raptors do. The Raptors are building a monopoly on the future while Toronto FC twiddles it's thumbs and seemingly gets pushed around by the Argos. Maybe they are hoping Argos fan will become TFC fans? It's ridiculous. In 2031, Stats Can projects 67% of this city to be a visible minority. 25% to be South Asian. Those people are not natural hockey, baseball, football fans. Hockey has had its peak moment. The Jays have the same crowd momentarily infused by hipsters. CFL is going the way of its fans...the grave. Yet Toronto FC fans act scared of them. The future is there if the organization has the mind to take it. Get out into the communities. Sell the diversity of soccer. We the North works because it celebrates our diversity while binding us all together. For the cost relative to other sports MLS is ideal for immigrants who come from places where soccer is already huge. Bingo. Forget Frankie Flowers, this shi@ needs some Nav Bhatia.

Its cool that there is a passionate fan base arguing over the colours of the walls but that just screams insular and parochial. There should be a mosaic of chants and fans and cultures that I just don't see. You want excitement? Be exciting.

problem is most multicultural groups and new canadians come from a futbol background, they honestly think MLS is similar level to that CSL league. Last thing they want to watch is MLS, when they get EPL and champions league on all the time. They laugh every time i bring up MLS.

If the stadium is full and all the games are on TV, i'm pretty satisfied with that. After thats is done, i don't really care who else is a fan.

[TFC/Everton]

As a counter-point to this, I mentioned to my son that Leicester and Man U were playing the other day and asked if he wanted to watch. He said he wasn't that interested in EPL anymore - he would rather watch MLS. I'm thinking in about 10 years we are going to see a big shift in numbers once their demographic starts being noticed by sports broadcasters.

Adding to this - I only really started watching soccer when TFC came to town and I watch far more MLS soccer than I do EPL.

[robotfighter]

problem is most multicultural groups and new canadians come from a futbol background, they honestly think MLS is similar level to that CSL league. Last thing they want to watch is MLS, when they get EPL and champions league on all the time. They laugh every time i bring up MLS.

If the stadium is full and all the games are on TV, i'm pretty satisfied with that. After thats is done, i don't really care who else is a fan.

Then we honestly show them otherwise.

Most immigrants are coming from Asia, not Europe. Their "Super Leagues" are hardly comparable to MLS. True that there are more association football fans in Toronto than MLS fans but that's a positive not a negative. Better than them all thinking it's a "sissy" sport full of divers or played by girls.

[robotfighter]

Tell us more of "should be's", robot. We're all here for you.

Who is "we're"? Maybe that's the problem? Maybe less you against them. More inclusion. An entire city of all different peoples rather than just the "we're"s. New guy just trying to add his own two cents. Not looking for a Gladiator brawl but I guess ready if you got a couiple swords, some beer, and some armor...

[Fort York Redcoat]

Who is "we're"? Maybe that's the problem? Maybe less you against them. More inclusion. An entire city of all different peoples rather than just the "we're"s. New guy just trying to add his own two cents. Not looking for a Gladiator brawl but I guess ready if you got a couiple swords, some beer, and some armor...

My bad. It's an old movie now...

http://kaleenaskaleidoscope.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/are-you-not-entertained-w-text-720x396.jpg

You address us, we speak. You wish to be a part of it - Welcome, robot. Let us all be excited and if we excite, so much the better.

[mistercorporate]

Then we honestly show them otherwise.

Most immigrants are coming from Asia, not Europe. Their "Super Leagues" are hardly comparable to MLS. True that there are more association football fans in Toronto than MLS fans but that's a positive not a negative. Better than them all thinking it's a "sissy" sport full of divers or played by girls.

lol, relax man. As another visible minority, I think I might be able to provide a unique perspective. TFC definitely has a multicultural composition if one were to actually sit in the stands and look around, it's pretty diverse and obvious. The thing is that the diverse mix is a little different to the Raptors Jurassic Park crowd (which by the way are an extreme example). In the early days of TFC a lot more people from Asia came out but many stopped being engaged around the same time the franchise was going through its dysfunctional phase, they're now starting to come back. You see, Asian cultures don't have the same depth of soccer tradition as some of the other communities so it will take more to get them involved and they're likely more fickle with an immature product. Many Portuguese/English/Italian supporters are already in the support them no matter what mentality so that fan base is "stickier" right now. This will change with time as more people expose themselves to soccer culture. Basketball is quite unique in that most immigrant-gateway neighbourhoods in this city have basketball nets everywhere including in pretty much every single school. Give it time I say, in the meantime the TFC fanbase is diverse and fun, enjoy it for what it is.

[TFC Tifoso]

certainly not my opinion, but just what I've heard others give as reason for the potential to not match the actual interest in TFC......the team tried too hard in the initial stages to appeal an English/PL type fan through players, management, etc. and it turned off many at first.....once they're turned off at the start its even harder to get them interested later......now, of course perception does not always equal reality, but its something I've heard way more than once as a reason to not be interested....

[TFC07]

This is kind of a boring thread for one about excitement.

If Toronto FC is ever to become a big deal then the whole approach to marketing itself needs to change.

In my opinion, Toronto FC should have the most diverse and multicultural fan base in the city. They don't. The Raptors do. The Raptors are building a monopoly on the future while Toronto FC twiddles it's thumbs and seemingly gets pushed around by the Argos. Maybe they are hoping Argos fan will become TFC fans? It's ridiculous. In 2031, Stats Can projects 67% of this city to be a visible minority. 25% to be South Asian. Those people are not natural hockey, baseball, football fans. Hockey has had its peak moment. The Jays have the same crowd momentarily infused by hipsters. CFL is going the way of its fans...the grave. Yet Toronto FC fans act scared of them. The future is there if the organization has the mind to take it. Get out into the communities. Sell the diversity of soccer. We the North works because it celebrates our diversity while binding us all together. For the cost relative to other sports MLS is ideal for immigrants who come from places where soccer is already huge. Bingo. Forget Frankie Flowers, this shi@ needs some Nav Bhatia.

Its cool that there is a passionate fan base arguing over the colours of the walls but that just screams insular and parochial. There should be a mosaic of chants and fans and cultures that I just don't see. You want excitement? Be exciting.

Well said.

Just imagine if Raptors crowd dealt with Argos situation how different things would have been. lol

[C.Ronaldo]

Then we honestly show them otherwise.

Most immigrants are coming from Asia, not Europe. Their "Super Leagues" are hardly comparable to MLS. True that there are more association football fans in Toronto than MLS fans but that's a positive not a negative. Better than them all thinking it's a "sissy" sport full of divers or played by girls.

yah but they all follow man u, chelsea, barca and real

[CanadaLFC]

I can only speak for myself and my experience, but a lot of people I speak to from my community (South Asian) treat Toronto FC as a 3rd rate product. They'll be very amped for the Man Utd game on TV at 7 am, but it does not translate over to TFC. I think a good first step would be to target those people and the simplest way is by winning. We have more than enough football fans in this city to make Toronto FC very popular and it starts by getting those Premier league viewers.

Having said that, I enjoy the camaraderie of being TFC fan with you fine folks!

[robotfighter]

certainly not my opinion, but just what I've heard others give as reason for the potential to not match the actual interest in TFC......the team tried too hard in the initial stages to appeal an English/PL type fan through players, management, etc. and it turned off many at first.....once they're turned off at the start its even harder to get them interested later......now, of course perception does not always equal reality, but its something I've heard way more than once as a reason to not be interested....

Bingo. Why sell the EPL to a market that already watches the EPL? If I want EPL I know where it is. If I want a team that reflects the diversity of my city and seems like a party, I also know where it is...Jurassic Park. But it should also be BMO.

[Onyx]

I can only speak for myself and my experience, but a lot of people I speak to from my community (South Asian) treat Toronto FC as a 3rd rate product. They'll be very amped for the Man Utd game on TV at 7 am, but it does not translate over to TFC. I think a good first step would be to target those people and the simplest way is by winning. We have more than enough football fans in this city to make Toronto FC very popular and it starts by getting those Premier league viewers.

Having said that, I enjoy the camaraderie of being TFC fan with you fine folks!

i think the multicultural/new canadians and EPL snobs are a lost cause, those guys will never be MLS fans, they need to focus on the kids/community soccer and hope they grow into fans

[Fort York Redcoat]

Bingo. Why sell the EPL to a market that already watches the EPL? If I want EPL I know where it is. If I want a team that reflects the diversity of my city and seems like a party, I also know where it is...Jurassic Park. But it should also be BMO.

That's funny you comparing a stadium and a square outside a stadium. Wouldn't it be BMO to ACC? Jus sayin'

[robotfighter]

I would also add...forget the "MLS isn't EPL or La Liga" stuff. It doesn't matter that TFC isn't Barca. The Raptors aren't the Lakers. People show up to watch Usain Bolt race but not Justin Gatlin or Asafa Powell even though to the human eye there is no difference in a .20 second sprint. Usain Bolt wins and is marketed properly. We gotta win and market properly. Raid the Raptors office (pay em double!) because those guys and girls know how to turn a city on to a team. What is the difference between an MLS and EPL game? If you don't have a rooting interest...NOTHING. Negligible. If your city suddenly represents and speaks to you (Raptors) then you stop "just watching the last two minutes" and start following them (1.5 million viewers or whatever).

[robotfighter]

That's funny you comparing a stadium and a square outside a stadium. Wouldn't it be BMO to ACC? Jus sayin'

Sorry soldier...was using "Jurassic Park" as a metaphor for the pandemonium inside the ACC and out. i.e. "Excitement" as in the title.

[OgtheDim]

... Raid the Raptors office (pay em double!) because those guys and girls know how to turn a city on to a team. ....

You havn't heard the complaints about the ingame ops people it seems.


*******


Anyhoo,


https://twitter.com/norm/status/728663018331115525

[Fort York Redcoat]

Sorry soldier...was using "Jurassic Park" as a metaphor for the pandemonium inside the ACC and out. i.e. "Excitement" as in the title.

Sorry, I wasn't speaking metaphorically. Jurassic Park is as much to be seen as to see. There's plenty of talking points in your comparisons. I look forward to discussing it more.

[TFC Tifoso]

Bingo. Why sell the EPL to a market that already watches the EPL? If I want EPL I know where it is. If I want a team that reflects the diversity of my city and seems like a party, I also know where it is...Jurassic Park. But it should also be BMO.

well to be fair, from '07-'09, BMO Field was the best "party" in town......unfortunately many were there just for the party, and once the product started to suck, they went away.....though some seem to be coming back now for the actual product, which is a good sign.....


You havn't heard the complaints about the ingame ops people it seems.


*******


Anyhoo,



I'd say Uncle Norm is just trying to make up for leaving TFC out of his tweet last weekend about it "being a great day for sports in the city with the Jays, Raptors, and Marlies playing" (paraphrasing)......

[mistercorporate]

You havn't heard the complaints about the ingame ops people it seems.

*******
Anyhoo,
https://twitter.com/norm/status/728663018331115525

Good find. It's heartwarming to see Norm Kelly of all people showing some love to TFC and glad John Tory will be watching the game. If we can convert some of these die-hard Argo supporters to TFC sympathizers it's a real positive. Glad to see them evolving with the times.

[SoccMan2]

Ya whatever Norm Kelly sends out a tweet last weekend that included all Toronto teams and even the Marlies but no TFC and now he tweets this, whatever Norm your tweet from last weekend told me everything there is to know about your interest in TFC give me a break.

[Justin10000]

Ya whatever Norm Kelly sends out a tweet last weekend that included all Toronto teams and even the Marlies but no TFC and now he tweets this, whatever Norm your tweet from last weekend told me everything there is to know about your interest in TFC give me a break.

Fuck Norm Kelly. I follow Toronto politics and he's one of the worst councillors on council.

[Red CB Toronto]

Fuck Norm Kelly. I follow Toronto politics and he's one of the worst councillors on council.

Norm is amazing, reps the city and kept city hall together, epsecially during the Rob Forde mess, having done a lot that dealt with the city, I will have no issue. But man John Is amazing too.

[mook-life]

Norm is amazing, reps the city and kept city hall together, epsecially during the Rob Forde mess, having done a lot that dealt with the city, I will have no issue. But man John Is amazing too.


Norm is def not amazing...

[Justin10000]

Norm is amazing, reps the city and kept city hall together, epsecially during the Rob Forde mess, having done a lot that dealt with the city, I will have no issue. But man John Is amazing too.

Norm is far from amazing.

Norm voted against Multicultural programs, Norm wanted to cut transit while he was TTC commissioner. He doesn't believe in Climate change, now he's acting like he cares about black youth.

Fuck Norm Kelly.

[OgtheDim]

Soooooooooooo....


8 pager in the Star today.

[KurtLarSUN]

I'm actually very disappointed in the lack of hype in this city around the TFC home opener.

I wish I had just one relative or friend that has the same un-healthy obsession with TFC that I have. Just last night I had a conversation with my brother-in-law (who is a total hockey junky) about my daughter's new boyfriend and about how she will slowly turn him into a soccer fan. My brother-in-laws response was "I guess if he doesn't mind being bored". This was right after I had a whole conversation with him about how much I was looking forward to Saturdays game.

Thankfully I have this forum to come to.

Funny enough, I find nothing more boring than hockey on TV. Sloppy game. Difficult to follow puck at times.

[Wagner]

Norm pays someone to do a good job with his Twitter account.

[BottjerRNO]

Fuck Norm Kelly. I follow Toronto politics and he's one of the worst councillors on council.

Amen to that. Dislike the guy intensely.

[TFC/Everton]

Uhm, lets keep politics off the forum. This is not why we are here.