Match Day 6 - Only Those Who Dare to Fail Greatly - TFC @ DCU Sat 16 5pm TSN

[OgtheDim]

Yes, I'd like to see some offence.

Have at it people.

[Yohan]

DC is playing Caps right now on TSN 1. early 2nd half

[Fort York Redcoat]

DC certainly got a boost from a struggling Vancouver. Pretty confident as is we can put up more of a fight.

[Hugh Jazz]

Definitely. DC didn't do anything spectacular, more a result from a struggling Vancouver team who had two players make their first starts of the season. DC's subs did however provide a nice spark to the end of the game.

[CBTFC]

Espindola and Saborio have proved time and time again in this league that they'll burn you if given the chance.

And if there's any team that can and will give them a chance, unfortuately it's us.

Ugh...I wish I felt better about this game, though I guess it still is only Monday, lol.

[molenshtain]

Well, fortunately for us the rest of that team is god awful. Saborio and Espindola (who are a combined age of almost 65 now) won't be much use to them if they don't get the ball in good areas.

[PopePouri]

I actually think we have a good chance for a win here. DC isn't very good.

[Blindside16]

I think our chances are high for 3 points in this one. Yes they embarrassed Vancouver but they haven't had any form yet this year. We need more offense then what we saw last game. We seem content with just booting the ball up the pitch and hoping Seba can run underneath it. I'd like to see more control and a structured attack in this one.

[SoccMan2]

Did not know they had Saborio too, well then Espindola along with Saborio and don't forget Rolfe are the kind of players that have caused all sorts of problems for TFC in the past and won't be surprised if any of these three cause major problems again , not going to be easy, will be very surprised of a TFC win, but if they have improved like everyone is trying to convince us that they have then they can prove it by getting a win here or again at least at tie.

[TheGoodson]

I would like TFC to revert back to 4-3-3 formation... The 4-4-2 which they played last week did not work.

[Yohan]

I would like TFC to revert back to 4-3-3 formation... The 4-4-2 which they played last week did not work.

4-3-3 doesn't work if Jozy is to be in the lineup. Putting Seba at LW either forces him to work too much defensively or lose shape defensively if Seba doesn't have to work a lot defensively.

I think 4-4-2 works vs DC, not a strong team defensively. They are bunch of grinders and have a strong veteran presence. But they don't have a lot to hurt TFC if TFC stays composed defensively esp on counter. (DC does have some pace) Guys like Rolfe and Espindola can hurt you if you make that one mistake, and I like that Acosta kid who is very creative (and lately only been used as a sub) but DC can be torn apart with quick moving balls and switching balls to other flank.

Offence is the way to go. Play 2 strikers up front and have Giovinco run at Franklin, and he had success against Franklin in 1v1 battles before. Jozy will need to take a bruising occupying the 2 physical CBs. And their GK is some new guy that doesn't have much experience yet.

[Cas87]

I would like TFC to revert back to 4-3-3 formation... The 4-4-2 which they played last week did not work.


4-3-3 doesn't work if Jozy is to be in the lineup. Putting Seba at LW either forces him to work too much defensively or lose shape defensively if Seba doesn't have to work a lot defensively.

I think 4-4-2 works vs DC, not a strong team defensively. They are bunch of grinders and have a strong veteran presence. But they don't have a lot to hurt TFC if TFC stays composed defensively esp on counter. (DC does have some pace) Guys like Rolfe and Espindola can hurt you if you make that one mistake, and I like that Acosta kid who is very creative (and lately only been used as a sub) but DC can be torn apart with quick moving balls and switching balls to other flank.

Offence is the way to go. Play 2 strikers up front and have Giovinco run at Franklin, and he had success against Franklin in 1v1 battles before. Jozy will need to take a bruising occupying the 2 physical CBs. And their GK is some new guy that doesn't have much experience yet.


The other alternative is to go into a 4-2-3-1 with Jozy up top. Seba, Bradley and Ozo forward in Mid, and WJ and Cheyrou in front of the back 4.

That is the only formation I can think of that uses all of our 11 to their strengths (as much as we can of course).

Jozy - target man
Seba - Runs rough shot through the middle
Bradley and Ozo - defensive on the sides when needed other wise cross/drive into the box
Johnson and Cheyrou - starting the ball forward and coverage for Seba/Bradley when they go forward.
Back 4 and Irwin - same as they have been so far this season.

[Stress]

I have to believe TFC is looking for the full 3 points here and will play a little more on the front foot and not so conservative. The next two games against MTL and POR will be much more difficult so getting to 8 points now will ease a lot of pressure.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they revert back to 4-3-3 if Endoh is good to go. They'll try Jozy in the middle and Seba out left but give him the license to roam as he pleases. They would then need a work horse behind him on the left (Johnson or Delgado) to ease his defensive duties.

I do think they'll stick to the same 4-4-2 line up as last week but replace Delgado with Cheyrou. I thought Delgado was poor last game and they'll likely push him back to a sub role.

[notthesun]

Ref for this match is Mathieu Bourdeau. According to the PRO website this will be his second career MLS game as the head referee: http://www.proreferees.com/roster-mathieu-bourdeau.php

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Espindola just named player of the week for his efforts against Vancouver.

I have a feeling we'll be without Morrow this week - any idea when the disciplinary committee comes out with that stuff? It seems like every week this year they're retroactively suspending players, and I think this week it's our turn.

[Bobo]

Putting Seba at LW either forces him to work too much defensively or lose shape defensively if Seba doesn't have to work a lot defensively

Seba played LW more than any other position during his time in Italy. In fact, I remember Conte getting ripped apart a few years back for "misusing" Seba when he moved him away from the wing.

If you look at most top teams who play 4-3-3, the wide FWs do not defend. How much defending does Cavani or Ribery do at LW?

[Yohan]

Seba played LW more than any other position during his time in Italy. In fact, I remember Conte getting ripped apart a few years back for "misusing" Seba when he moved him away from the wing.

If you look at most top teams who play 4-3-3, the wide FWs do not defend. How much defending does Cavani or Ribery do at LW?
except that Vanney's tactics using 4-3-3 have wide forwards play 2 way and on defence it's a 4-1-4-1.

Vanney has Giovinco playing central because Seba has license as free role to roam wherever he wants. right now on away games, the emphasis seems to be on keeping the shape esp on defence and Seba on LW on free roam means someone has to cover for him on left side of the pitch to avoid Morrow being stuck on 1v2 defending situation. we got a lot of goals scored on last season because the team wasn't good enough defending to avoid all the 1v2 situations and adjusting for that overlapping opposition offender cause the team to lose shape.

[Hugh Jazz]

It would be nice to see Giovinco play LW in the 4-3-3 system Vanney started with this season. Defensively Gio has the tactical acumen and engine to cover that spot and he wouldn't be forcing out any defensive stalwarts on that side either - Osorio only made a single interception last game, no tackles/blocks. Offensively Gio gets more involved in the build-up areas and has more space out wide, in the final third he'd still draw more defenders to him. Of course there can also be a bit of interchange with Altidore who is better suited for covering back on set-pieces. Decisions, decisions...

[OgtheDim]

Per Molinaro http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-tfc-mls-major-league-soccer-dc-united-justin-morrow/

Cheyrou went out from training today and is questionable.

Endoah day to day.

Williams back from illness.

Morrow might be suspended - options are Lovitz or Morgan.

[Bobo]

except that Vanney's tactics using 4-3-3 have wide forwards play 2 way and on defence it's a 4-1-4-1.

Vanney has Giovinco playing central because Seba has license as free role to roam wherever he wants. right now on away games, the emphasis seems to be on keeping the shape esp on defence and Seba on LW on free roam means someone has to cover for him on left side of the pitch to avoid Morrow being stuck on 1v2 defending situation. we got a lot of goals scored on last season because the team wasn't good enough defending to avoid all the 1v2 situations and adjusting for that overlapping opposition offender cause the team to lose shape.

Vanney can only use the players at his disposal. Injuries have necessitated a departure from the 4-3-3 he used in preseason. What we've seen for the majority of matches thus far has not been Plan A. Personally, I think its too big a stretch to even call what we've seen a 4-3-3.

[Cashcleaner]

DC will be getting warm and sunny weather for most of the week leading up to kick-off on Saturday. Tomorrow and Friday there will see a high of 18 degrees Celsius on both days, with the temp pushing up to 19 degrees Saturday afternoon. Excellent conditions for training and practise prior to the match for the home team, unfortunately. Though I'm sure TFC will get a bit of outdoor practice in before they head out to Washington. DC will be coming into the match with 6 points and a record of 1-2-3. Their only win so far this season being last weekend's 4-0 blow-out at home against Vancouver. TFC is right behind them in the standings with 5 points and a record of 1-2-2 following the draw against New England last weekend, though we do have a game in hand.

Kinda tough to say how the match on Saturday will play out for TFC. Even though it's still early in the season, DCU's standings are a bit inflated with that lopsided result against the Whitecaps. Even after racking up four goals on the weekend, they've still got a Goal Differential of -2. A boxing euphemism comes to mind - Punching above one's weight, perhaps?

Anyway, it's still an MLS away game for us, and we already know what the odds are for teams on the road, so I'm not going to make any crazy prediction one way or another. Sorta see a 2-2 draw, maybe a 2-1 win for the good guys. But if they get into the same rhythm against TFC as they did against the Whitecaps, it's anyone's guess how things will play out. When you get guys like Sabo, Espindola, Acosta running on all cylinders (and even Nick Deleon who looked like he had a good 90 minutes that game), it can be tough going for anyone playing them. Possibly losing Morrow and/or Cheyrou would suck. Hopefully Endoh will be fit to be an option on the bench for Vanney.

[molenshtain]

We're better than them at every position. If there's one game in this road trip we should go into with the expectation of coming away with three points, it's this one.

[QBall]

Well the crowd shouldn't be a factor seeing how DC hardly gets enough people at their home games to qualify as a crowd. Time to show that DC has been overachieving. 3-0 Reds.

[Ultra & Proud]

We're better than them at every position. If there's one game in this road trip we should go into with the expectation of coming away with three points, it's this one.
What does that say about the Whitecaps then?

[Yohan]

What does that say about the Whitecaps then?
Robbo has a massive problem. They just can't score. Good defence, shitty strikers.

[Ruffian]

Robbo has a massive problem. They just can't score. Good defence, shitty strikers.

And they were missing Laba and Porales.

[TFC Tifoso]

except that Vanney's tactics using 4-3-3 have wide forwards play 2 way and on defence it's a 4-1-4-1

what I get from this then is that Seba and Jozy can't be on the field at the same time if Vanney goes 4-3-3.....neither one defends.....

imo playing Seba in the middle of the 3 is a waste.....he's not a central player, plain and simple.....Altidore's qualities are better suited to play in the middle.....

the only way I see it to work in a 4-3-3 is to have only the RF support the midfield when TFC doesn't have the ball so you're basically defending like a 4-4-2.....this way you can maximize the assets on offense without giving up too much when you don't have the ball.....

[PopePouri]

It's time to take off those rose-tinted glasses and really evaluate Carl Robinson's recent acquisitions. The reality is that he's been given 3 years to bring in a good striker with DP money and he's failed. After shipping Koffie and Beitashour out, I don't think he can mask his offensive problems with defensive resilience anymore.

[Ultra & Proud]

It's time to take off those rose-tinted glasses and really evaluate Carl Robinson's recent acquisitions. The reality is that he's been given 3 years to bring in a good striker with DP money and he's failed. After shipping Koffie and Beitashour out, I don't think he can mask his offensive problems with defensive resilience anymore.
He's also done the very popular move of acquiring untested, young, affordable South American players and that has really been hit or miss. Mostly miss I'd say considering they are all offensive players, especially the past two seasons.

[spark]

It's time to take off those rose-tinted glasses and really evaluate Carl Robinson's recent acquisitions. The reality is that he's been given 3 years to bring in a good striker with DP money and he's failed. After shipping Koffie and Beitashour out, I don't think he can mask his offensive problems with defensive resilience anymore.

I'm 99% sure those signings are not all on Robinson. I would say the reality is the absence of a good striker (and I've been told they put in a $3M offer last season for a player) falls on a couple shoulders, but also location, not specifically Robbo.

[PopePouri]

I'm 99% sure those signings are not all on Robinson. I would say the reality is the absence of a good striker (and I've been told they put in a $3M offer last season for a player) falls on a couple shoulders, but also location, not specifically Robbo.

Somebody has to be responsible for handling trades and rubberstamping players coming through the door. Who is that person?

They keep shining that DP turd that is Rivero in the hope he may actually hit the target in a proper match. If they do, I don't expect them to make the playoffs this year.

[molenshtain]

Remember when everyone preferred Vancouver's model to ours? Good times.

[SoccMan2]

Well apart for that playoff appearance last year where TFC was obliterated by our good friends down the 401 in La belle province TFC's history has been one giant disaster on the field where compared to Vancouver who have had a lot better success on the field in a shorter amount of years in the MLS yes I would have chosen whatever model the Whitecaps were using. Let's hope that finally things change this year and TFC finally has some real success after all these years of disappointment.

[molenshtain]

The subtext was that their model was better in the long-term, and that our DP model wouldn't get us anywhere. Turns out that's bullshit.

Vancouver has had a higher level of MLS success than us because they came into the league with a running start. Bez had to build an entire roster from scratch three years ago, and this is what we have now.

[jazzy]

The subtext was that their model was better in the long-term, and that our DP model wouldn't get us anywhere. Turns out that's bullshit.

Vancouver has had a higher level of MLS success than us because they came into the league with a running start. Bez had to build an entire roster from scratch three years ago, and this is what we have now.

respectfully!(my opinion)......... without Giovinco where would we be success wise ? If they simply exchanged Gio for any DP they have I don't think we'd be that close . Wish it wasn't so ,but our complete status as a team , is slow , and our success would be short lived , without him . Still this year , hopefully, that is to be rectified in the long term . Yes , I agree difficult in the achingly frustrating 'guidlines' of MLS .

[notthesun]

respectfully!(my opinion)......... without Giovinco where would we be success wise ? If they simply exchanged Gio for any DP they have I don't think we'd be that close . Wish it wasn't so ,but our complete status as a team , is slow , and our success would be short lived , without him . Still this year , hopefully, that is to be rectified in the long term . Yes , I agree difficult in the achingly frustrating 'guidlines' of MLS .

Well, that was the argument being made right? Vancouver purposefully chose not to sign proven expensive DPs and they're struggling to score, we parked a yacht in Giovinco's swimming pool and now we have the best player in the league.

[PopePouri]

Well Dallas and Portland proves the opposite obviously but they have a savvy scouting department and a good manager.

[Ivy]

Jazzy has a good point though. Vancouver is 1 player away from going from middle of the pack to the top of the league. TFC is a Seba injury away from going from the middle to the basement.

I cant help but blame Vanney for everything that happens with TFC. There is no way that we would be where we are with the roster we have, if we had an experienced adaptable coach.

[molenshtain]

Jazzy has a good point though. Vancouver is 1 player away from going from middle of the pack to the top of the league. TFC is a Seba injury away from going from the middle to the basement.

I cant help but blame Vanney for everything that happens with TFC. There is no way that we would be where we are with the roster we have, if we had an experienced adaptable coach.

we have 5 points from 5 away games. What's he doing wrong? Nothing at all so far has suggested to me that we won't be where we should be come august-september, up there challenging for the top 2 spots in the conference.

[Ivy]

The NYRB game was good... The rest of them have been uninspiring. I understand that we're doing OKAY, but I think we should be doing better. I'd like to see TFC spank at least 1 team away. 4-0 type thing.

[molenshtain]

That's fair. I just think these early season results/performances aren't much of a good predictor of how we'll fare the rest of the season, especially considering that all of these are road games. I've brought this point up before, but you need not look further than even last year when New Jersey only won 4 of of there first 14 before going on to win the Supporters Shield.

I just think that to say we're one Giovinco injury away from being as bad as NYCFC or Chicago doesn't give fair credit to the rest of the roster and Vanney too, even. We just don't know yet. The roster is in good shape for the most part and Vanney has not up until this point indicated he definitivly cannot produce with these guys. We just don't know yet.

[Ivy]

That's fair. I just think these early season results/performances aren't much of a good predictor of how we'll fare the rest of the season, especially considering that all of these are road games. I've brought this point up before, but you need not look further than even last year when New Jersey only won 4 of of there first 14 before going on to win the Supporters Shield.

I just think that to say we're one Giovinco injury away from being as bad as NYCFC or Chicago doesn't give fair credit to the rest of the roster and Vanney too, even. We just don't know yet. The roster is in good shape for the most part and Vanney has not up until this point indicated he definitivly cannot produce with these guys. We just don't know yet.
Interesting about New Jersey. I didn't realize that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not fully committed to the Vanney Out club yet, I just strongly believe that the squad isn't getting all of its horse power out.

[Derko]

Interesting about New Jersey. I didn't realize that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not fully committed to the Vanney Out club yet, I just strongly believe that the squad isn't getting all of its horse power out.

True, it is about time that TFC start running on all cylinders, it seems that we are almost that 1975 Plymouth Duster that needs a bit of a tune up. We need a convincing, dominating game this week.

[OgtheDim]

respectfully!(my opinion)......... without Giovinco where would we be success wise ?

Like Vancouver right now. Except with a better midfield and a guy who scores/assists at a pretty good clip per minute played but people are frustrated with.

We were a real mess after short pants.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The subtext was that their model was better in the long-term, and that our DP model wouldn't get us anywhere. Turns out that's bullshit.

Vancouver has had a higher level of MLS success than us because they came into the league with a running start. Bez had to build an entire roster from scratch three years ago, and this is what we have now.

I'm not saying either model can't work but this DP model is working. Past DP models here...

[jazzy]

in defence of MR.Vanney ,Uncomfortably), as many of stated better than I, we don't always use formations that utilize Gio's abilities the best , ( I guess I would prefer that .) But as coach, are these formations better for the development of overall team strength for the future ? Or the best utilization of the players we have in the present ? Is that our hope? That would seem to be a waste of our rare star . Time is of essence here yes? Chicken or egg ? And for me a second real offensive threat may be all we are lacking . (Again not an original point) .

[TFC Tifoso]

in defence of MR.Vanney ,Uncomfortably), as many of stated better than I, we don't always use formations that utilize Gio's abilities the best , ( I guess I would prefer that .) But as coach, are these formations better for the development of overall team strength for the future ? Or the best utilization of the players we have in the present ? Is that our hope? That would seem to be a waste of our rare star . Time is of essence here yes? Chicken or egg ? And for me a second real offensive threat may be all we are lacking . (Again not an original point) .

well as said in the Sun today, with the return of Altidore, Vannney described the formation for the weekend as 4-2-2-2.....so I'd say they're going for the bolded.....that formation is something I don't mind really.....much better than having Seba in the middle of a forward 3.....

[OgtheDim]

Johnson seems to have more leeway to go forward then Bradley. I'm somewhat surprised at how disciplined Bradley has been back there. Johnson though has missed a few shots this season. Gets into good position but not finishing.

[spark]

Somebody has to be responsible for handling trades and rubberstamping players coming through the door. Who is that person?

They keep shining that DP turd that is Rivero in the hope he may actually hit the target in a proper match. If they do, I don't expect them to make the playoffs this year.

If I had to guess Lenarduzzi and/or Anderson are the ones who get the final say. I'm sure Robbo is "in the room" but I do feel like Vancouver is Bobby's team.

I agree 100% they messed up on Rivero - his salary is outrageous and I'd only be happy if he was making 1/4-1/5 his current wage. I also think (well maybe it's already determined) Kudo is a bust. So the search continues for a proven goalscorer ...

[spark]

That's fair. I just think these early season results/performances aren't much of a good predictor of how we'll fare the rest of the season, especially considering that all of these are road games. I've brought this point up before, but you need not look further than even last year when New Jersey only won 4 of of there first 14 before going on to win the Supporters Shield.

I just think that to say we're one Giovinco injury away from being as bad as NYCFC or Chicago doesn't give fair credit to the rest of the roster and Vanney too, even. We just don't know yet. The roster is in good shape for the most part and Vanney has not up until this point indicated he definitivly cannot produce with these guys. We just don't know yet.

NYRB is not a good example or comparison. Since 2010 they have consistently been playoff contenders and won the SS twice. There is a clear, proven track record of their success and reasonable supposition that if they have a slow start or hit a bump in the road, will correct itself and not flame out. To say they only won 4 of their first 14 misses they were undefeated in their first seven games and in that stretch were 4-5-5, not a great, but not terrible start to the season. And after that they never lost twice in a row in 2015.

I think to say "we just don't know" is a bit of a cop-out. We know plenty about this team/club - they've had good starts to the season and poor ones and only made the playoffs once. To say things like "we just don't know yet" when there is plenty of information available to draw logical conclusions is avoiding reality. Especially when we know plenty about this team from last year and it's components to say the majority of the load was carried by Seba. Can we win without Bradley? Yes. Can we win without Altidore? Yes. Can we win without Giovinco? There is little, if anything, to point to that the answer is yes on that front.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

And for me a second real offensive threat may be all we are lacking.

This made me curious how our second threat compares to the rest of the league - all these numbers are from the MLS site for last year. Altidore had 13 goals (with no assists, which seems wrong to me but it's the official site so...) in 21 starts - as for the comparable / more productive secondary threats:

Ethan Finlay 12 G (13 A) - 34 starts
Mauro Diaz 8 G (10 A) - 24 starts
Ignacio Piatti 9 G (9 A) - 26 starts - was primary threat until Drogba arrived
Lee Nguyen 7 G (10 A) - 31 starts
Lloyd Sam 10 G (7 A) - 27 starts
Kaka 9 G (7 A) - 28 starts
Clint Dempsey 10 G (10 A) - 20 starts
Benny Feilhaber 10 G (15 A) - 30 starts

Take from this what you will.

Personally I don't think Altidore isn't an effective threat in this league - I just have a bad feeling we're not going to get much more than 21 starts from him again this year.

[mistercorporate]

This made me curious how our second threat compares to the rest of the league - all these numbers are from the MLS site for last year. Altidore had 13 goals (with no assists, which seems wrong to me but it's the official site so...) in 21 starts - as for the comparable / more productive secondary threats:

Ethan Finlay 12 G (13 A) - 34 starts
Mauro Diaz 8 G (10 A) - 24 starts
Ignacio Piatti 9 G (9 A) - 26 starts - was primary threat until Drogba arrived
Lee Nguyen 7 G (10 A) - 31 starts
Lloyd Sam 10 G (7 A) - 27 starts
Kaka 9 G (7 A) - 28 starts
Clint Dempsey 10 G (10 A) - 20 starts
Benny Feilhaber 10 G (15 A) - 30 starts

Take from this what you will.

Personally I don't think Altidore isn't an effective threat in this league - I just have a bad feeling we're not going to get much more than 21 starts from him again this year.

Thanks for the info, not too shabby numbers for Altidore! Really wish we could juggle our system to have him positioned effectively with Giovinco on a consistant basis.

[TFC Tifoso]

Altidore had 13 goals (with no assists, which seems wrong to me but it's the official site so...) in 21 starts

no its correct.....he got his first assist in a TFC shirt on Seba's goal last weekend v NER.....may be hard to believe but its right.....

[jloome]

Well Dallas and Portland proves the opposite obviously but they have a savvy scouting department and a good manager.

Portland isn't a great example as they'd be nowhere without Ridgewell and Adi, both seven-figure DPs

[notthesun]

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/14/tfc-to-do-some-tinkering-for-saturdays-game

Morrow not suspended, expect some squad rotation for this match, Endoh and Cheyrou both out. Going with a new formation that will look something like this:

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/720976037660725251

[Hamilton_Red]

The worrying thing for me this season is the lack of fire in the belly starting games. Vanney isn't the kind of manager who gets the team fired up. The "5 points on the road in 5 games is good" argument was the same last year. I was pumped up for the home opener last season & fizz.. we played completely un-inspired football and lost what should have been a sure bet. If the manager can't get the team pumped for big games - there is a problem. The same situation happened in the play-off debacle & the Columbus game before it.

[Derko]

The worrying thing for me this season is the lack of fire in the belly starting games. Vanney isn't the kind of manager who gets the team fired up. The "5 points on the road in 5 games is good" argument was the same last year. I was pumped up for the home opener last season & fizz.. we played completely un-inspired football and lost what should have been a sure bet. If the manager can't get the team pumped for big games - there is a problem. The same situation happened in the play-off debacle & the Columbus game before it.

How very true

[molenshtain]

The worrying thing for me this season is the lack of fire in the belly starting games. Vanney isn't the kind of manager who gets the team fired up. The "5 points on the road in 5 games is good" argument was the same last year. I was pumped up for the home opener last season & fizz.. we played completely un-inspired football and lost what should have been a sure bet. If the manager can't get the team pumped for big games - there is a problem. The same situation happened in the play-off debacle & the Columbus game before it.

we lost that game because we came into it with the wrong tactics, not because the team wasn't 'fired up', the same way the first 25 minutes against NE had less to do with intensity and more to do with a faulty tactical approach. At the end of the season what matters is points accumulation, not fiery performances that appease fans who need the team to be "pumped up" and "fighting for the badge". I've seen a lot of shit teams who had a fire in their belly. It didn't matter at the end of the day once they finished at the end of the table.

[MightyDM]

Thanks for the info, not too shabby numbers for Altidore! Really wish we could juggle our system to have him positioned effectively with Giovinco on a consistant basis.

Ah yes, but how????? Can we be defensively strong with Seba AND Jozy having no defensive responsibilities? I really like Jozy, but still think the team would have been better if we traded Jozy for Garber$$$ and a winger, and kept Gomez.

i hope I am wrong and we will see.

[Auzzy]

Wow, I'm shocked Morrow wasn't suspended by the league.

[Ultra & Proud]

Ah yes, but how????? Can we be defensively strong with Seba AND Jozy having no defensive responsibilities? I really like Jozy, but still think the team would have been better if we traded Jozy for Garber$$$ and a winger, and kept Gomez.

i hope I am wrong and we will see.
When the day comes, if ever, that Gomez can start and play 60 minutes or so effectively then I will agree. This guy has been 'getting up to full fitness' for over a year now with no injuries so what's that about?

[Hamilton_Red]

So you're saying we have neither tactics or passion? The teams that succeed have both boxes ticked. I've never seen a team with no morale win a championship. The team needs a strong spirit and good tactics. I think we have improved a bit tactically and strengthened the defence - Bradley is better in his new role. We really need to start clicking offensively - that means Alti has to contribute and Gio has to stay healthy.


we lost that game because we came into it with the wrong tactics, not because the team wasn't 'fired up', the same way the first 25 minutes against NE had less to do with intensity and more to do with a faulty tactical approach. At the end of the season what matters is points accumulation, not fiery performances that appease fans who need the team to be "pumped up" and "fighting for the badge". I've seen a lot of shit teams who had a fire in their belly. It didn't matter at the end of the day once thgey finished at the end of the table.

[PopePouri]

NYRB is not a good example or comparison. Since 2010 they have consistently been playoff contenders and won the SS twice. There is a clear, proven track record of their success and reasonable supposition that if they have a slow start or hit a bump in the road, will correct itself and not flame out. To say they only won 4 of their first 14 misses they were undefeated in their first seven games and in that stretch were 4-5-5, not a great, but not terrible start to the season. And after that they never lost twice in a row in 2015.

I think to say "we just don't know" is a bit of a cop-out. We know plenty about this team/club - they've had good starts to the season and poor ones and only made the playoffs once. To say things like "we just don't know yet" when there is plenty of information available to draw logical conclusions is avoiding reality. Especially when we know plenty about this team from last year and it's components to say the majority of the load was carried by Seba. Can we win without Bradley? Yes. Can we win without Altidore? Yes. Can we win without Giovinco? There is little, if anything, to point to that the answer is yes on that front.

Given that Seba has played most games 90 minutes, there is little evidence on how we did we without him. The only evidence we have last year was where Seba was missing for the majority of the match. Even with those games, we were competitive, scored and won (NYRB at home, Montreal at home). The other game was Seattle away, a competitive game with a depleted squad where we almost got a result.

[OgtheDim]

GAME DAY!!!! :scarf:

[OgtheDim]

FWIW


http://toronto-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/TFC%20Projected%20XI%20vs.%20DC.png


They also predicted Lovitz last weekend.

[mistercorporate]

Ah yes, but how????? Can we be defensively strong with Seba AND Jozy having no defensive responsibilities? I really like Jozy, but still think the team would have been better if we traded Jozy for Garber$$$ and a winger, and kept Gomez.

i hope I am wrong and we will see.

Definitely think trading Jozy for Garber$$ and a solid DP winger would make sense (a la David Villa).

[OgtheDim]

Villa is only playing as a winger because NYCFC hasn't found that second forward for him to play off of. They would keep Villa and take Jozy in a heartbeat and play 4-4-2 or 3-5-2. I know you meant Villa as a type but don't kid yourself about how this works.

Seba needs that banging tip of the spear forward - he's not an up top guy in a 4-3-3. Jozy can play that spot. Both the coaching staff and Jozy said that was what he was going to do this season. We've had one game with him and Seba together. Lets see how this works out before the Copa break.

[ChrisFizik]

Morning all

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly" Reds are in DC. Sun is shining. It's Match Day!



http://i.imgur.com/BF8pHSTh.jpg



Thanks for that quote RFK - I mean, OgtheDim! haha

[mistercorporate]

This lineup looks good, it would look downright formidable with a healthy Endoh.

[QUOTE=OgtheDim;1790172]

http://toronto-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/TFC%20Projected%20XI%20vs.%20DC.png

[jazzy]

This made me curious how our second threat compares to the rest of the league - all these numbers are from the MLS site for last year. Altidore had 13 goals (with no assists, which seems wrong to me but it's the official site so...) in 21 starts - as for the comparable / more productive secondary threats:

Ethan Finlay 12 G (13 A) - 34 starts
Mauro Diaz 8 G (10 A) - 24 starts
Ignacio Piatti 9 G (9 A) - 26 starts - was primary threat until Drogba arrived
Lee Nguyen 7 G (10 A) - 31 starts
Lloyd Sam 10 G (7 A) - 27 starts
Kaka 9 G (7 A) - 28 starts
Clint Dempsey 10 G (10 A) - 20 starts
Benny Feilhaber 10 G (15 A) - 30 starts

Take from this what you will.

Personally I don't think Altidore isn't an effective threat in this league - I just have a bad feeling we're not going to get much more than 21 starts from him again this year.



great points , I really like Josey but fear for his endurance . He is the answer if he could hold up just a bit better and stay healthy . God knows he's paid for it . I wish for a Finley / Kamari situation that Columbus had . Those two were well paired .

[KurtLarSUN]

What's up guys...

I usually try to do a social media Q&A before every match. Feel free to send your TFC/MLS questions to me @KurtLarsSUN on Twitter. Or, I'll check back here later and answer anything you have before the game.

The Toronto Sun's pre-game coverage ... (http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/15/tfc-looks-to-capitalize-in-washington)

[mistercorporate]

What's up guys...

I usually try to do a social media Q&A before every match. Feel free to send your TFC/MLS questions to me @KurtLarsSUN on Twitter. Or, I'll check back here later and answer anything you have before the game.

The Toronto Sun's pre-game coverage ... (http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/15/tfc-looks-to-capitalize-in-washington)

Hey Kurt! I was wondering, how are TFC ticket sales going for the home opener compared to this time last year. Also, how many season tickets did they sell, I heard they had 18,000 season and premium seats last year, how many this year?

[shwade]

Lovitz AAAGAGH. That boy is capable of absolutely nothing.

[Walms]

I don't really get involved with the tactile speculations till I see the formation in game........ but what about a 4-2-3-1, with Cheyrou out, I'd drop Bradly/Willy back on the defensive duty's, put Oso-Seba-Endoh in the attacking mid and Jozy up front as the target? allows Seba some more freedom to drift and play off Jozy and I think Bradly/Willy would destroy people at the back!

[KurtLarSUN]

Hey Kurt! I was wondering, how are TFC ticket sales going for the home opener compared to this time last year. Also, how many season tickets did they sell, I heard they had 18,000 season and premium seats last year, how many this year?

They had sold more than 28,000 tickets/suite seats for the opener as of last week. Not sure how that compares. I'm told they are north of 20,000 for total season seats (including suites etc.).

I'm speaking with Bill Manning today at RFK Stadium. Any questions?

[Pint]

They had sold more than 28,000 tickets/suite seats for the opener as of last week. Not sure how that compares. I'm told they are north of 20,000 for total season seats (including suites etc.).

I'm speaking with Bill Manning today at RFK Stadium. Any questions?

Ask manning what he thinks about the issues between MLS/DCU and District Ultras as well as OCB bannings

[MightyDM]

They had sold more than 28,000 tickets/suite seats for the opener as of last week. Not sure how that compares. I'm told they are north of 20,000 for total season seats (including suites etc.).

I'm speaking with Bill Manning today at RFK Stadium. Any questions?

Two:

1. what formation accommodates Jozy and Seba AND is still strong defensively ?

And: 2. his perspective on the development of the younger players that are struggling for minutes right now, like Chapman, Manella, Hagglund, Zavaletta. Are they still progressing to becoming starters in this league?

[sully]

What's his opinion on the state of refereeing in MLS

[molenshtain]

So you're saying we have neither tactics or passion? The teams that succeed have both boxes ticked. I've never seen a team with no morale win a championship. The team needs a strong spirit and good tactics. I think we have improved a bit tactically and strengthened the defence - Bradley is better in his new role. We really need to start clicking offensively - that means Alti has to contribute and Gio has to stay healthy.


No, That's clearly not what I said. I said that the appearance of passion matters a hell of a lot less than having A) good players who can consistently execute an effective plan and B) a coach who routinely gets his choices right. Everything else on top of that is gravy. This team has a ton of passionate guys who have no problem motivating themselves, so I don't know why Vanney get's that knock on him. The team clearly has a lot of good morale at the moment.

[OgtheDim]

Perquis rested - on the bench.

[Cashcleaner]

Lovitz AAAGAGH. That boy is capable of absolutely nothing.

He's on the bench according to TFC's twitter. Delgado starts.

I wish I could post it, but it's a solid Starting XI given who we can work with.

[ag futbol]

Definitely think trading Jozy for Garber$$ and a solid DP winger would make sense (a la David Villa).
I would just go the more direct route and get someone else with solid skill and blazing speed. Basically if we had a "Gio light" on the other side we'd be monsters on the counter attack and punish teams who want to key on our best player while unbalancing the field.

[ag futbol]

ICYMI: The @BacardiCanada Starting XI: Irwin; Morrow, Moor, Williams, Beitashour; Osorio, Bradley, Johnson, Delgado; Giovinco, Altidore.

What happened to Perquis??


Perquis rested - on the bench.
Aaaarrrggggg, that's frustrating.

[Alonso]

Here we go, here we go, here we goooo!!!!!!!!!

[boozilla]

Can't wait not to have to see that away kit.

[OgtheDim]

TSN stream if you want to avoid the DCU crew

http://firstrowca.eu/watch/428830/1/watch-dc-united-vs-toronto-fc.html

[MightyDM]

It's actually sort of a 2-4-4 if you assume the fullbacks are pushing up wide. A 4-2-4 almost if they stay home.

[MightyDM]

That was Oso! What a great little poke to Jozy! And all four were up!

[Alonso]

I'm predicting a 3-1 win for the good guys

[ag futbol]

Goal, goal, goal!!

[OgtheDim]

:jaw:

[Alonso]

SWEEEETTTTT! GIO on EVERYONES fantasy team!

[ag futbol]

Altidore needs to better there. That's a clean chance for a shot just inside the 18

[MightyDM]

They are putting a lot of balls over the top. Are we playing a high line or something?

[Alonso]

How many times this year or last have we started the game with the first goal?!@?

NOT MANY me thinks

[MightyDM]

Delgado continues to be weak defensively.

[Alonso]

WOW, the defense is way better than I've ever seen from TFC....

Saying that. It's still not good.

[ag futbol]

I appreciate the early goal, but we can't drop this deep defensively this early. Our counter attack looks toothless.

[Alonso]

We need to get the next goal.

[MightyDM]

There have several bad giveaways by our best players, Bradley, Seba, Jozy.

[portu]

Seba seems like he's passing the ball much better this season

[MightyDM]

Seba seems like he's passing the ball much better this season


The he only thing is that he will only pass it to certain players - when the rookies play, he ignores them. Sometimes Oso and Delgado too.

[Soccerpro]

Why the fuck do TFC games always seem to be in TSN4 now? I get TFC 1,2,3 and it never fails the game is on stupid TSN 4. I'm so fucking angry.

[MightyDM]

FFS Delgado.

[portu]

The he only thing is that he will only pass it to certain players - when the rookies play, he ignores them. Sometimes Oso and Delgado too.
Oso mostly only gets ignored in scoring positions because he's terrible at finishing

[cdnorman]

Irwin continues to show how important his signing was to our club. Great save again to keep us in the lead.

[portu]

If I'm Vanney I'm making a tactical change to put Perquis in for Williams, back line just isn't good enough right now

[Alonso]

Why the fuck do TFC games always seem to be in TSN4 now? I get TFC 1,2,3 and it never fails the game is on stupid TSN 4. I'm so fucking angry.


Cable tv is shit.

Start stealing your tv viewing.

It's free!!!

The game is in HD on my tv for the price of internet.

[OgtheDim]

Yup, that's a yellow.

[Alonso]

Oso mostly only gets ignored in scoring positions because he's terrible at finishing


In his rookie year he was one of the only finishers we had.

[MightyDM]

If that's a yellow, no one will be on the pitch in a few minutes

[portu]

In his rookie year he was one of the only finishers we had.
Lol and how good were we that year

[Alonso]

Lol and how good were we that year


g:D:drinking:

[MightyDM]

Oso tracked his runner beautifully there, on the play before the corner.

[Alonso]

This is our HOUSE!!!

[MightyDM]

Yup, that's a yellow.

Its a foul. Most fouls are not yellows. Nothing in that at all, unless it was for persistent infringement, and the referee did NOT signal that.

[SneijderOranje]

what site you using?

[boozilla]

Cable tv is shit.

Start stealing your tv viewing.

It's free!!!

The game is in HD on my tv for the price of internet.

Kodi?

[MightyDM]

Let's get to the half lads.

[MightyDM]

That's at least the third time Delgado has caused problems with a poorly weighted pass to Bradley. Might be time for Lovitz at the half.

[Alonso]

Kodi?


MLS Live with Hola when needed.

[Soccerpro]

Cable tv is shit.

Start stealing your tv viewing.

It's free!!!

The game is in HD on my tv for the price of internet.

the first row link won't let me watch unless I disable ad block. Nope.

[MightyDM]

Vanney very frank at halftime. Good for him.

[OgtheDim]

If that's a yellow, no one will be on the pitch in a few minutes

I'm on a dodgy feed. Looked at it on MLS Live - your right.

[OgtheDim]

the first row link won't let me watch unless I disable ad block. Nope.

I'm on it and have no problem.

http://firstrowca.eu/watch/428830/1/watch-dc-united-vs-toronto-fc.html

[OgtheDim]

Oooo.....Manning.

[Alonso]

the first row link won't let me watch unless I disable ad block. Nope.


"where there is a will, there is a way." .... some smart dude.

[OgtheDim]

Now I remember why I can't stand TSN's #1 team. Its all narrative and discussion points - TALK ABOUT THE PLAY GOING ON IN FRONT OF YOU!!!!!!

[smtavare]

Bradley,.....I'm just not a fan

[smtavare]

Defense is been great this year, wing play and offensive midfield.... Meh!

[flatpicker]

Not the most exciting of games. Toronto doesn't seem interested in getting very creative or applying much pressure.

[smtavare]

Are we playing to win 1-0, where the f is the attacking mid, 6man d all game (bunker down after the 1st min), one mistake and it's a draw

[sashavukelich]

attendance was just announced at like 16,500. I can't believe DC still gets such low turn out with what people are getting to see in MLS these days.

[Yohan]

Jozy and Altidore hardly doing any work on defence, forcing midfield to run around trying to do too much

[boozilla]

Bradley,.....I'm just not a fan In this hoofball fest, he has shown quality, trying to establish possession.

[ag futbol]

attendance was just announced at like 16,500. I can't believe DC still gets such low turn out with what people are getting to see in MLS these days.
They are in a holding pattern until they get a new stadium. Otherwise, they are putting little money into the team and the draw in the stands reflects that.

[Shakes McQueen]

Jozy and Altidore hardly doing any work on defence, forcing midfield to run around trying to do too much

Wait.. we have a Jozy AND an Altidore? :D

[ag futbol]

That will do. Nothing flashy but some needed road points.

[flatpicker]

Not very fun to watch, but nice to pick up another win.

[Shakes McQueen]

Now I remember why I can't stand TSN's #1 team. Its all narrative and discussion points - TALK ABOUT THE PLAY GOING ON IN FRONT OF YOU!!!!!!

They need to bring back the segments where some recently graduated journalism student from Ryerson asks the players what their favourite colour is!

[Oldtimer]

They did what they had to do. Nice to have a road win.

[Shakes McQueen]

Not very fun to watch, but nice to pick up another win.

No joke, I actually fell asleep on the couch it was so dull.

But three more points on the opening road slog? I'll take it, thanks you very much.

[Yohan]

Sloppy. To be fair. DC defenders read the TFC movement and did a good job intercepting forward passes. But Lack of thrust from Bradley and Johnson who were concentrating on protecting the back 4 hurt the attack a lot. And Delgado and Osorio just aren't dangerous enough on the flanks.

Smash and grab, but on 8 pts now. Vanney not getting fired anytime soon. lol

[General Woolfe]

:scarf: Well doneTFC!!!

A real solid defensive display from the lads today. However we were pretty toothless going forward if truth be told. Still 3 points in the bag and a game closer to the end of this road trip. Same again next week against the poutine eaters will do me...

[boozilla]

Tedious 94 minutes of forgettable football. 3 points!

[Ivy]

Lack of offense again, but a gritty road win. Take em in all shapes and sizes. Good clean sheet.

[OgtheDim]

DCU doing what Olson has done since he started. Get the ball out wide and hope something happens. Williams for Perquis made a lot of sense as Perquis is our best defender in the air.


Altidore did a lot of hold off play there. Not so many flicks as last week. Just brute force and passing and another assist. I'm not sure why people were thinking he wasn't coming back - he kept making tackles in behind their mids. As did Seba actually. Those two are coming back a lot more compared to last season.


I thought Delgado had the worst game of the lot (well apart from Chapman who badly needs minutes)



But, Clint.........WOOF. This is what a really good MLS keeper is like.

[Hugh Jazz]

Good to see Osorio moved to the point of midfield in the second half (until Chapman came on) but both of those guys are far too timid in front of goal.

DC has no creativity, I thought we didn't play too well but we never looked to be in serious danger.

[notthesun]

Man, D.C. sucks. Did next to nothing with all that possession. How the hell did Vancouver let these guys score 4 on them??

Bradley, Johnson, Irwin and Beitashour were all great today. Moor is the CB we've been looking for since 2007. Also, Altidore's muggings-to-fouls earned ratio is insane... it's like refs are okay with him taking a pounding because he's big and looks strong.

Anyways, textbook road win. The defense has clearly improved a ton. Need to figure out how to get the offense clicking without disrupting ourselves defensively, but I'll wait for the home games before judging too much on that. Big 3 points today.

[ronzilla]

3 points in the bag. I'll take it.

You have to give credit to Irwin for that big 1st half save or this game would have ended in draw.

[PopePouri]

Vanney's tactics were immaculate. Stop them through the middle and force them to cross to their small forwards Rolfe and Espindola.

[TravelPat]

Cable tv is shit.

Start stealing your tv viewing.

It's free!!!

The game is in HD on my tv for the price of internet.

Thanks but I pay for things I consume. I don't believe in stealing. Maybe it is something my Mom or Dad instilled in me - who knows. But I do know what is right and what is wrong.

[General Woolfe]

attendance was just announced at like 16,500. I can't believe DC still gets such low turn out with what people are getting to see in MLS these days.

Arent they having some problems with their supporters groups after one of the Capos got a year ban for letting off a flare outside the ground?

[Kaz]

For those keeping track.

last season we came out of the first 6 games with 6 points. Opening season win, 4 loses and a 6th game win.

This season we came out of the first 6 games with 6 points. Opening Season win, a draw 2 loses a second draw and a 6th game win.


The changes this season have result picking up 2 extra points...

If we were able to pull out 2 extra points out of every 8 games (assuming we win one of the next two so that we finish the first 8 games at 11 points instead of 9), If we were able to pull out 2 extra points out of every 8 games compared to last season That would be 8-9 points more this season. It would have put us 3rd in the league last year.

Now the opening road trip is in now ways indicative of the season and we still have 2 more road games... so we will see how things go... There are positives. We need to beat the right teams this year though.

[AdamAM]

Thanks but I pay for things I consume. I don't believe in stealing. Maybe it is something my Mom or Dad instilled in me - who knows. But I do know what is right and what is wrong.

In all fairness you pay for your own internet as well, so streaming a game from there on to your TV isn't exactly "stealing". Why not use the tools you have available to your advantage?

As for the game... mediocre.. at best.

[ManUtd4ever]

I think Irwin will prove to be the most important off season acquisition. He is rock solid.

8 points on the road trip with 2 games to spare. I'll gladly take it.

[TravelPat]

In all fairness you pay for your own internet as well, so streaming a game from there on to your TV isn't exactly "stealing". Why not use the tools you have available to your advantage?

As for the game... mediocre.. at best.

If TSN or whoever's broadcast you are 'stealing' - wanted to give it away to everybody for free - including to those who do not pay for subscriptions to their services - they would just stream it for everybody to view on their website- but they don't. So it is stealing - no matter how you try to spin it.

I have to sort of laugh - some of the posters who can be most critical of MLSE who have poured tens of millions into this team - are some posters who apparently don't attend games and feel they should be entitiled to get every game for free and not pay for the TV services that televise games (who happen to own the team too). Imagine if every fan had that I'm entitled to get everything for free attitude.

Solid win today that I watched on my paid for TSN.

[TFC/Everton]

I am always happier when we win.

[Red4ever]

If TSN or whoever's broadcast you are 'stealing' - wanted to give it away to everybody for free - including to those who do not pay for subscriptions to their services - they would just stream it for everybody to view on their website- but they don't. So it is stealing - no matter how you try to spin it.

I have to sort of laugh - some of the posters who can be most critical of MLSE who have poured tens of millions into this team - are some posters who apparently don't attend games and feel they should be entitiled to get every game for free and not pay for the TV services that televise games (who happen to own the team too). Imagine if every fan had that I'm entitled to get everything for free attitude.

Solid win today that I watched on my paid for TSN.

If you ignore supply and demand, you get burned.

They have priced games at a rate that is out of sync with what people are willing to pay.

[OgtheDim]

You know the game was boring when we win a game and people are more willing to talk about TV pricing.

[Shakes McQueen]

If you ignore supply and demand, you get burned.

They have priced games at a rate that is out of sync with what people are willing to pay.

Eh, that's a bit of a fallacious argument you're deploying here.

In a world where people can illegally consume something for free, the concept of "what people are willing to pay" gets horribly skewed, because you're competing with "zero". If something is priced outside your willingness to pay, the correct response is not to consume said product. If you go to a car dealership and the car you want is priced out of sync with what you're willing to pay, you don't just jump in anyway and drive away, then have the gall to declare that it's the dealership's fault for "ignoring supply and demand".

Literally the only moral difference here, is that the product is a digital copy of a broadcast program.

People are going to do what they are going to do, and content creators need to understand and deal with that, but don't pretend it's some moral position, to take what you don't want to buy because you think it's too expensive.

[Shakes McQueen]

You know the game was boring when we win a game and people are more willing to talk about TV pricing.

Pretty much.

[DinamoTFC]

Thanks but I pay for things I consume. I don't believe in stealing. Maybe it is something my Mom or Dad instilled in me - who knows. But I do know what is right and what is wrong.

And I like to think that those same cable companies have been stealing from us - by continually charging insane amounts and reducing number of basic channels. Rogers/bell have a government supported monopoly and we pay most out of most countries in the world for cable, mobile and internet. Which is why the original owner of Wind said goodbye. The guy was giving some advice which someone asked, no need to be a prick.

[TFC07]

Watching TFC road win on illegal stream FTW!

[Shakes McQueen]

And I like to think that those same cable companies have been stealing from us - by continually charging insane amounts and reducing number of basic channels. Rogers/bell have a monopoly and we pay most out of most countries in the world for cable, mobile and internet. The guy was giving you some advice for which you asked, no need to be a prick.

Charging exorbitant rates for elective services rendered is infuriating, but morally a completely different universe. I'll agree that his sanctimony at the end was unnecessary, and only likely to raise some hackles though.

At any rate, let is not argue about this, and get things back on track. I include myself in that. The discussion can be taken to Off-Topic if anyone wants to continue it.

[SirBobSaget]

They looked much better once Perquis was subbed in. not sure if that was the plan all along (60 mins for Williams) or if it was tactical.

[shwade]

Was hoping for a blowout after that 1st minute goal. Still waiting for this team to come out charged up - they have to be capable of more with this lineup.

[Auzzy]

Well that was lots of time spent watching two crappy games today (Raptors & TFC). I'm glad TFC toughed it out (partially lucked out) for a win.

[DinamoTFC]

Was hoping for a blowout after that 1st minute goal. Still waiting for this team to come out charged up - they have to be capable of more with this lineup.

Hoping for one game where we can win convincingly by 3 or more - makes it exciting and instills some confidence once in a while. If they can pull one more win out of the next 2 games that would be great. If not then minimum 2 draws. Then we will be on a good path for the upcoming home games and hopefully a blowout can come then.

[James17930]

I think Irwin will prove to be the most important off season acquisition. He is rock solid.



I didn't see the game – only the highlights – but based on those I would put Irwin as the MotM. Almost every single play in the highlight package is him making a save or clearing his area. So yeah ... so far this seems quite accurate.

[MightyDM]

Shout out to Chapman who did very well. Good to see. Will press Delagado for minutes.

[boozilla]

After the goal, any DC pressure was effectively defused. Washington had a shit game. Watched it legally and then online. No difference. My +300 useless channels cable TV fees just went up again. Mmm.

[Hamilton_Red]

It wasn't pretty today and we rode our luck a fair bit in the first half. Overall we deserved the win & having the confidence to win 1-0 games is very important..it's a sign of a much more mature team. For me the stand-out players were Irwin, Beitashour & all the back four. Johnson was superb - teams must hate playing him. Altidore had an effective game & was useful defending from the front late in the game. I thought that Bradley, Osario, and Giovinco had sub-par games (game winning tap in aside). Good result - two tough away games coming up - can't believe it's only two weeks to Portland! Looking forward to the road trip.

[jloome]

Man, D.C. sucks. Did next to nothing with all that possession. How the hell did Vancouver let these guys score 4 on them??

Bradley, Johnson, Irwin and Beitashour were all great today. Moor is the CB we've been looking for since 2007. Also, Altidore's muggings-to-fouls earned ratio is insane... it's like refs are okay with him taking a pounding because he's big and looks strong.

Anyways, textbook road win. The defense has clearly improved a ton. Need to figure out how to get the offense clicking without disrupting ourselves defensively, but I'll wait for the home games before judging too much on that. Big 3 points today.

We made them look worse than they are; that was the best defensive shape I can remember from TFC.

[Red4ever]

Eh, that's a bit of a fallacious argument you're deploying here.

In a world where people can illegally consume something for free, the concept of "what people are willing to pay" gets horribly skewed, because you're competing with "zero". If something is priced outside your willingness to pay, the correct response is not to consume said product. If you go to a car dealership and the car you want is priced out of sync with what you're willing to pay, you don't just jump in anyway and drive away, then have the gall to declare that it's the dealership's fault for "ignoring supply and demand".

Literally the only moral difference here, is that the product is a digital copy of a broadcast program.

People are going to do what they are going to do, and content creators need to understand and deal with that, but don't pretend it's some moral position, to take what you don't want to buy because you think it's too expensive.

I don't disagree with a lot of that. (I'm also pulling the whole thing off topic and I'm done after this)

My counter would be that we are so fond of over regulating the TV airwaves in this country which now compete directly with an unregulated internet. Government regulates who can have property, leaves people no choice but to pay silly high prices.

If it were food and not football, people would riot. I guess the only difference is you need food to survive. Then again... :)

[burlington Red]

Man, D.C. sucks. Did next to nothing with all that possession. How the hell did Vancouver let these guys score 4 on them??

Bradley, Johnson, Irwin and Beitashour were all great today. Moor is the CB we've been looking for since 2007. Also, Altidore's muggings-to-fouls earned ratio is insane... it's like refs are okay with him taking a pounding because he's big and looks strong.

Anyways, textbook road win. The defense has clearly improved a ton. Need to figure out how to get the offense clicking without disrupting ourselves defensively, but I'll wait for the home games before judging too much on that. Big 3 points today.

Not sure about Bradley having a great game, he lost possession a couple of times at edge of the box that could have proved costly plus gave the ball away cheaply quite a few times. He did make some good passes and he did a decent screen of the backline, I'd say an average performance imo.
we grinded out an ugly away win, nothing wrong with that.

[Shakes McQueen]

We made them look worse than they are; that was the best defensive shape I can remember from TFC.

This was notable. It's interesting so far this season, that our attack has seemed kind of toothless, while our defensive form has generally been pretty good... because that's generally the opposite of what pretty much everyone expected.

If they can figure out tactics that work for our formidable (on paper) attack, this could be a very good team.

[Alonso]

Thanks but I pay for things I consume. I don't believe in stealing. Maybe it is something my Mom or Dad instilled in me - who knows. But I do know what is right and what is wrong.


When 62 people own half of the worlds wealth you have to ask yourself who is robbing who?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/richest-62-billionaires-wealthy-half-world-population-combined

Stealing from the rich is everyone's moral imperative.

Just ask Robbin Hood.

[Alonso]

We made them look worse than they are; that was the best defensive shape I can remember from TFC.


AGREED.

Best defensive TFC game ever.

Maybe this team has turned the corner?!?

[Borga]

I watched the SkySports stream. Probably a D-team from the UK, but better than the DC feed I started on and better than some of the jokers we get on the TFC home feed.

[ensco]

Didn't watch game as I only had the ability to watch one thing today and chose the Raps.

How did Osorio look? I've been worried about him, he seems stalled...

[Hugh Jazz]

I thought Osorio had a sub par game, I'm still unsure why he so rarely elects to shoot. There were a couple plays where he was on top of the 18 and had room to go to goal but laid it off instead. Interestingly he moved from LM to AM at the start of the second half. Not sure if Vanney was hoping to get more out of him here or if it was to shore up the flank (Johnson moved to the left) as DC was playing the ball wide often.

[Ultra & Proud]

Didn't watch game as I only had the ability to watch one thing today and chose the Raps.

How did Osorio look? I've been worried about him, he seems stalled...
Brain works too slow to ever amount to more than an average MLSer. Everything needs an extra step or two to figure out and even then it's above 50% that it was a poor decision. We need an upgrade. He is not a true, legit MLS starter on a team that's good.

[notthesun]

I don't agree with that at all. Osorio's skillset is one that shines brightest when we have a lot of steady possession. Wait for the home games, where we will be driving the play much more often, to see how he does. After Giovinco he was our best player last season past the mid-way point of the summer.

[ag futbol]

On balance, I don't it was the greatest game but to rubbish it completely is harsh. He pushed that ball through to Altidore which left him wide open to pass that ball in for the goal, set up Delgado for that cross he completely whiffed, and played in WJ for a shot on target. Maybe he could have taken the third one himself, but regardless of that, what's listed consists of a big chunk of the opportunities we had during that game and he was involved with all of it.

If I was looking for a weak link I'd start with Delgado. Chapman didn't really look good off the bench either.

[Oldtimer]

Watched the game on MLS Live, great quality virus free stream right to my device. Worth every penny.

This game showed very solid defensive shape most of the time. DC was good at pressing, unlike Vancouver our defensive line didn't break.

Our offense was mostly quiet after the goal apart from a few occasions. I couldn't believe it, but it looked like they were mostly bunkered down after the first minute. They pulled it off, to their credit. Apart from a few games under Preki, I don't think I've seen TFC do that sort of thing.

[MightyDM]

Didn't watch game as I only had the ability to watch one thing today and chose the Raps.

How did Osorio look? I've been worried about him, he seems stalled...

He created the goal with a nice flick. I think he is trying to find Seba too often, otherwise had a decent game. Tracked back very well and was solid defensively.

[Prof]

Watched the game on MLS Live, great quality virus free stream right to my device. Worth every penny.

This game showed very solid defensive shape most of the time. DC was good at pressing, unlike Vancouver our defensive line didn't break.

Our offense was mostly quiet after the goal apart from a few occasions. I couldn't believe it, but it looked like they were mostly bunkered down after the first minute. They pulled it off, to their credit. Apart from a few games under Preki, I don't think I've seen TFC do that sort of thing.

I also thought I was watching Preki ball. A win is good, but not a great game to watch. Thought the ref did a good job.

[OgtheDim]

Osorio doesn't get subbed as much anymore. His stamina and his defensive workrate are good - they just suffer in comparison beside the two MLS all stars he has beside him. And that pass to Altidore is pretty vintage Osorio - instinctive get it to the right guy.

[barticusz]

I don't agree with that at all. Osorio's skillset is one that shines brightest when we have a lot of steady possession. Wait for the home games, where we will be driving the play much more often, to see how he does. After Giovinco he was our best player last season past the mid-way point of the summer.

Agree .. similar to last year Osorio looked very subpar during the first part of the season. He became better as it went along and coincidentally we played more at home.

Great to see Chapman get some good minutes yesterday. Vanney is making good use of the bench this year.

[KurtLarSUN]

It's going to be difficult for anyone in TFC's attack until they get home. The mentality at the moment is "create enough chances to win". I think they've done that in most games this season. Just how good was TFC's defensive unit last night? Irwin was credited with just three saves. He had to make just one BIG save in the first half. That's it. Good signs, if you ask me.

[CBTFC]

8 points from the first 8 games on the road has been reached.

Mission accomplished.

A tie for the next two road games would be gravy.

[OgtheDim]

Any question about Bradley's performance might be up to him having a wicked cold.

Watch the post game interview video - hack hack sniff wheeze towel in his hand to blow his schnoz on after - sounds like he has what I had last week

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/04/16/we-dealt-their-best-attacking-players-good-way-michael-bradley?autoplay=true

[shwade]

On balance, I don't it was the greatest game but to rubbish it completely is harsh. He pushed that ball through to Altidore which left him wide open to pass that ball in for the goal, set up Delgado for that cross he completely whiffed, and played in WJ for a shot on target. Maybe he could have taken the third one himself, but regardless of that, what's listed consists of a big chunk of the opportunities we had during that game and he was involved with all of it.

If I was looking for a weak link I'd start with Delgado. Chapman didn't really look good off the bench either.

Chapman isn't even half the player Delgado is. At least Delgado can pass forward. I don't know if he's more useless than Lovitz but it's up there.

[jloome]

Didn't watch game as I only had the ability to watch one thing today and chose the Raps.

How did Osorio look? I've been worried about him, he seems stalled...

He's playing because he's creative by MLS standards and holds onto the ball really well, is hard to take off the dribble. But his defense was fucking atrocious. He has no idea who to cover. His movement off the ball needs a lot of work, too. There were multiple times when Bradley dropped to receive from the backline and he didn't read that he was the closest mid to close the triangle, to drop ten yards for link up. Stuff like that is really important.

So he still sort of looks like a playground player; but he's getting better. His defence really needs work; teams key on him on the give and go because he challenges the ball too slowly and plays the man instead of marking off.

[jloome]

Chapman isn't even half the player Delgado is. At least Delgado can pass forward. I don't know if he's more useless than Lovitz but it's up there.

I don't know if you have enough information to make that call. Chapman looked really good yesterday. He looked like a DM to me though, a two-way at best. He passes really well, cuts off passing lanes. He's got a future, I think.

Delgado is a much more experienced play, and further ahead. He's also getting better. So yeah, right now he's better but not by a ton, and they're very different. Delgado plays best wide, Chapman in the middle. Delgado will try to beat a guy to get space for the next pass, Chapman looks for a through ball or something over the top when he's not just shuttling it.

Too early to say how he'll do, but he has potential.

[jloome]

I didn't see the game – only the highlights – but based on those I would put Irwin as the MotM. Almost every single play in the highlight package is him making a save or clearing his area. So yeah ... so far this seems quite accurate.

He only saw three shots all game.

[ensco]

^I love the kid, I really thought he would be a star, but I think he's become a weak link, he is not even an average MLS starter.

Oso's development has sadly been totally stunted by the presence of Bradley/Giovinco.

Oso is a CM. He is not a winger.

[jloome]

^I love the kid, I really thought he would be a star, but I think he's become a weak link, he is not even an average MLS starter.

Oso's development has sadly been totally stunted by the presence of Bradley/Giovinco.

Oso is a CM. He is not a winger.

I think that's a bit harsh; I'd say he's very much an "average" starter, but he has the potential to be better. He definitely looks better playing inside. It's difficult, though, because his defending just isn't good enough to play there. His ability to hold onto the ball and keep us in the offensive zone is really formidable, and he had one of the best pass completion rates in the entire league last season.

I think he does look a little stalled, though, playing to his strength -- or being used to his strengths -- rather than developing the parts of his game that need it. We maybe brought him along too quickly.

[greatwhitenorf]

Six games played. Eight points earned. Only five goals against. Best defence in the league.

We've never been able to say that in the history of TFC this far into a season. Only scored six, mind you, but apart from two losses where we've been robbed by refs, this is an excellent start. And things will only get better as the home games start up.

It might not be exciting to watch thus far, but it's exciting to contemplate for the future.

[ag futbol]

I think that's a bit harsh; I'd say he's very much an "average" starter, but he has the potential to be better. He definitely looks better playing inside. It's difficult, though, because his defending just isn't good enough to play there. His ability to hold onto the ball and keep us in the offensive zone is really formidable, and he had one of the best pass completion rates in the entire league last season.

I think he does look a little stalled, though, playing to his strength -- or being used to his strengths -- rather than developing the parts of his game that need it. We maybe brought him along too quickly.
If we look back, he was at his best playing next to Laba. They balanced each other out perfectly. He seemed to show more confidence in front of the net then too.

Regarding Irwin. I do not think the shots alone tell the story. He made an important punch or two and really controlled his box. If that was Joe Bednik, no way we keep a clean sheet that game.

[James17930]

He only saw three shots all game.

There also seemed to be a lot times where he punched clear or intercepted a pass. Or the time he came out and got the bad back-header.

[MightyDM]

8 points from the first 8 games on the road has been reached.

Mission accomplished.

A tie for the next two road games would be gravy.

that wasn't the goal, that was the minimum for Vanney to keep his job. The goal should be to be ahead of that one point a game pace.

[MightyDM]

I don't know if you have enough information to make that call. Chapman looked really good yesterday. He looked like a DM to me though, a two-way at best. He passes really well, cuts off passing lanes. He's got a future, I think.

Delgado is a much more experienced play, and further ahead. He's also getting better. So yeah, right now he's better but not by a ton, and they're very different. Delgado plays best wide, Chapman in the middle. Delgado will try to beat a guy to get space for the next pass, Chapman looks for a through ball or something over the top when he's not just shuttling it.

Too early to say how he'll do, but he has potential.

i am with you, Chapman looked good, and Delgado only looks good going forward. He is poor defensively, closing down, tracking runners, etc. Watch the game again with that in mind and you will see it.

[PopePouri]

Delgado only looks good going forward. He is poor defensively, closing down, tracking runners, etc. Watch the game again with that in mind and you will see it.

Matthew Doyle ‏@MLSAnalyst (https://twitter.com/MLSAnalyst) 18h18 hours ago (https://twitter.com/MLSAnalyst/status/721468234528980992)
So much of DC's best stuff comes from Kemp. Delgado shut the faucet off - killed all good forward options. #DCvTOR (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DCvTOR?src=hash)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgMriToVIAAU3G7.jpg

[notthesun]

i am with you, Chapman looked good, and Delgado only looks good going forward. He is poor defensively, closing down, tracking runners, etc. Watch the game again with that in mind and you will see it.

Delgado is averaging the most tackles + interceptions per game of all our midfielders except Bradley (yes, more than Johnson). I'm not sure where your concerns here are coming from, I haven't noticed anything of the sort. The reverse is true if anything - he's good defensively but OK at best going forward (for example he was played in down the right yesterday and mishit his cross straight into the keeper, if he floats that far post Altidore probably scores). He might not relentlessly pressure the ball like Johnson or Bradley but he is clearly putting himself in the right place at the right time quite often.

[jloome]

Delgado is averaging the most tackles + interceptions per game of all our midfielders except Bradley (yes, more than Johnson). I'm not sure where your concerns here are coming from, I haven't noticed anything of the sort. The reverse is true if anything - he's good defensively but OK at best going forward (for example he was played in down the right yesterday and mishit his cross straight into the keeper, if he floats that far post Altidore probably scores). He might not relentlessly pressure the ball like Johnson or Bradley but he is clearly putting himself in the right place at the right time quite often.

I think his offensive game is really improving.nhe reads the game really well. He was primarily a defensive player at Chivas, and is a solid marker and tackler.

[Fort York Redcoat]

that wasn't the goal, that was the minimum for Vanney to keep his job. The goal should be to be ahead of that one point a game pace.

And he's done it with games to spare. Unless there's some genius banging at the door Vanney has the job this season.

[Dub Narcotic]

Chapman isn't even half the player Delgado is. At least Delgado can pass forward. I don't know if he's more useless than Lovitz but it's up there.

Chapman had a rough cameo, I think he should get more games under his belt at TFC2. Was Babouli hurt? About Osorio: he's a strange player to evaluate. He's a good short-passer and keeps possession pretty well. I think he also has a good workrate defensively. On the other hand, for someone considered a creative midfielder, he doesn't generate a lot of offense in terms of assists, key passes and goals. He also doesn't go past people or have the ability to connect the long pass. If he could just score some of the fairly large number of shooting chances he finds himself with I think he would solidify his value to the team.

[ensco]

And he's done it with games to spare. Unless there's some genius banging at the door Vanney has the job this season.

I'm glad to see this. Mid season coaching changes very rarely work.

[shorty]

Chapman had a rough cameo, I think he should get more games under his belt at TFC2. Was Babouli hurt? About Osorio: he's a strange player to evaluate. He's a good short-passer and keeps possession pretty well. I think he also has a good workrate defensively. On the other hand, for someone considered a creative midfielder, he doesn't generate a lot of offense in terms of assists, key passes and goals. He also doesn't go past people or have the ability to connect the long pass. If he could just score some of the fairly large number of shooting chances he finds himself with I think he would solidify his value to the team.

Osorio was actually third in key passes last year (for TFC, not the league) and not that far behind Bradley for roughly the same number of minutes played:
http://www.americansocceranalysis.com/new-page-3/

(not that I disagree with your overall point)

[Hugh Jazz]

I think Osorio is best when he is involved in the build up. He usually makes smart decisions while in possession, making simple passes to keep the play moving. He can't hit a teammate with a 30 yard switch or run at defenders but he can sneak a tricky pass through tight spaces. I've been a big fan since he started for TFC but I think he needs to show improvement over last year if he wants to remain a regular. Gio and Jozy occupy so much of defenders' attention that he is often afforded lots of space.

Yesterday the whole team was off with their passing (66%), the last few games we were well above 70%.

[MightyDM]

Matthew Doyle ‏@MLSAnalyst (https://twitter.com/MLSAnalyst) 18h18 hours ago (https://twitter.com/MLSAnalyst/status/721468234528980992)
So much of DC's best stuff comes from Kemp. Delgado shut the faucet off - killed all good forward options. #DCvTOR (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DCvTOR?src=hash)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgMriToVIAAU3G7.jpg




fair enough, but I saw it differently. I'll take my own advice and watch it again though!

[MightyDM]

What I see is him playing off players and letting them get crosses and or passes in, and not tracking runners immediately and getting caught behind - like when he gave up the penalty earlier in the season.

[MightyDM]

And he's done it with games to spare. Unless there's some genius banging at the door Vanney has the job this season.

That wasn't my point. Someone said that we have reached our goal of eight points. That isn't, or shouldn't be, our goal if the goal is for this good roster to be one of the top few teams. The eight points was the minimum expectation set by the new club President last year when talking about Vanney and his future as coach. It's good we made it, and with this roster we should aspire to more. Vanney has done far better than I expected this year, good for him and us, now let's achieve more and achieve the potential of this roster.

[mistercorporate]

That wasn't my point. Someone said that we have reached our goal of eight points. That isn't, or shouldn't be, our goal if the goal is for this good roster to be one of the top few teams. The eight points was the minimum expectation set by the new club President last year when talking about Vanney and his future as coach. It's good we made it, and with this roster we should aspire to more. Vanney has done far better than I expected this year, good for him and us, now let's achieve more and achieve the potential of this roster.

Amen.

[Yohan]

That wasn't my point. Someone said that we have reached our goal of eight points. That isn't, or shouldn't be, our goal if the goal is for this good roster to be one of the top few teams. The eight points was the minimum expectation set by the new club President last year when talking about Vanney and his future as coach. It's good we made it, and with this roster we should aspire to more. Vanney has done far better than I expected this year, good for him and us, now let's achieve more and achieve the potential of this roster.

This roster is good enough to be top 3rd in mls. Weak wingers and not enough depth. Just IMO.

Discussion about how good this team should be done around June break. We will have more insight after the home games in may

[69Chevy396]

This roster is good enough to be top 3rd in mls. Weak wingers and not enough depth. Just IMO.

Discussion about how good this team should be done around June break. We will have more insight after the home games in may
At this point in the season, I would argue that the team is significantly better on paper than this time last year, but the player with the most positive actual impact is Irwin. He stole the game last night. Our defenders were caught out of position a few times, that in past seasons, would have resulted in a goal or two. Irwin stopped those chances, and what I like the most about him, is that when he makes the hard saves, he makes it look easy. This must give the team tons of confidence. He is probably the best keeper this team has had.

[TFC Tifoso]

great win!!.....8 points secured for the road trip which is absolutely fantastic....Irwin and Will Johnson have been spectacular so far imo.....

[Fort York Redcoat]

That wasn't my point. Someone said that we have reached our goal of eight points. That isn't, or shouldn't be, our goal if the goal is for this good roster to be one of the top few teams. The eight points was the minimum expectation set by the new club President last year when talking about Vanney and his future as coach. It's good we made it, and with this roster we should aspire to more. Vanney has done far better than I expected this year, good for him and us, now let's achieve more and achieve the potential of this roster.

Right on. Totally agree. We should aspire to more but I have no problem noting accomplishments. As you say, in last years terms we were more desperate to see points under Vanney.

[MightyDM]

Vanney has done well this year, so far. I have not been a fan in the past but it would be unfair not to give him that. And I liked the fact he gave Chapman minutes on Saturday.