Match Day 5 - Try this trick and spin it - TFC @ NER - Saturday April 9 4 pm

[OgtheDim]

Game is on TSN4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iC0YXspJRM

[SoccMan2]

3-1 New England but don't worry we have all these home games coming up from May onward that we will win just because we are playing at home all TFC have to do is show up and they will win!

[Detroit_TFC]

I was dead certain TFC would win in Colorado and I'm dead certain TFC won't at Gillette Stadium. Maybe I'll be wrong again!

[reggie]

maybe Vanney will go for the BENITO 0-0 win.

[OgtheDim]

The choice of Babouli last night indicates Vanney was going for it. If he had put Delgado in as the right forward, that would have been defensive. Lets see what happens next week but I'm hoping to see Altidore and Endoh in. Time to release the shackles. NER preys on midfields who lose their shape - TFC hasn't this season. I'm quietly confident we can get points here.

[portu]

The choice of Babouli last night indicates Vanney was going for it. If he had put Delgado in as the right forward, that would have been defensive. Lets see what happens next week but I'm hoping to see Altidore and Endoh in. Time to release the shackles. NER preys on midfields who lose their shape - TFC hasn't this season. I'm quietly confident we can get points here.
He also inverted the wingers (Lovitz on right and Babouli on left) which I think points towards him wanting them to tuck in and have the fullbacks overlap, push high and take up attacking positions, all of which points towards a much more attacking style

[Yohan]

Vanney has a dilemma. Does he stick with 4-3-3 with Giovinco on top which has resulted in more defensive stability but not enough offence as opposition takes Giovinco out of the game. Or play Altidore up top and Giovinco on LW which may open up more space for Giovinco to go 1v1 against a defender but limited to left side of the pitch. And may result in Giovinco drop too deep helping out defensively and not much of a factor on offence. Or play 2 forward up top which may provide more offence at sacrificing structure defensively.

I think Vanney will again be conservative and play defensive 4-3-3 again. The lack of quality on wing is killing this team though.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So we have peeps travelling to this one. Sound off if you're going!

[notthesun]

Vanney has a dilemma. Does he stick with 4-3-3 with Giovinco on top which has resulted in more defensive stability but not enough offence as opposition takes Giovinco out of the game. Or play Altidore up top and Giovinco on LW which may open up more space for Giovinco to go 1v1 against a defender but limited to left side of the pitch. And may result in Giovinco drop too deep helping out defensively and not much of a factor on offence. Or play 2 forward up top which may provide more offence at sacrificing structure defensively.

I think Vanney will again be conservative and play defensive 4-3-3 again. The lack of quality on wing is killing this team though.

I'm going to guess he puts Giovinco at LW and Altidore up top, with Endoh on the right this time. Endoh will be defensively responsible on his side, while Giovinco will be more lax. That means Morrow stays at home most of the time while Beitashour is able to go forward.

Maybe Osorio gets sacrificed and Delgado starts on the left side of the midfield three in order to get a better defensive presence there while Giovinco is at LW.

[OgtheDim]

Hmmm


https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/717388286327709696

[TFC Tifoso]

at some point, I'd like to see Osorio up top with Seba and Altidore.....imo he has the "smarts" to play with them.....

[portu]

at some point, I'd like to see Osorio up top with Seba and Altidore.....imo he has the "smarts" to play with them.....
Pace has always been the issue with playing Oso as winger tho

[molenshtain]

Pace has always been the issue with playing Oso as winger tho

that and his lack of incisiveness. He can't finish and he doesn't play enough of the dangerous balls necessary for someone playing that high up the pitch.

[TFC Tifoso]

Pace has always been the issue with playing Oso as winger tho


that and his lack of incisiveness. He can't finish and he doesn't play enough of the dangerous balls necessary for someone playing that high up the pitch.

ya fair points guys, but he's gotta be better than the other options that have been put on the wings so far.....he seems to be most likely to be on the same page as Seba and Altidore in comparison to the other options (Lovitz, Endoh, Delgado, etc.)

[shwade]

ya fair points guys, but he's gotta be better than the other options that have been put on the wings so far.....he seems to be most likely to be on the same page as Seba and Altidore in comparison to the other options (Lovitz, Endoh, Delgado, etc.)

Oso and Gio do play off each other well but like they said, the boy can't finish and he's a tad on the slow side.
I think Delgado is building up decent Chem with Gio and in the first couple of games there were some nice give and go's between Endoh and Gio so perhaps something to build there as well. It's really only jozy who isn't linking up well with anyone..

[C.Ronaldo]

Oso and Gio do play off each other well but like they said, the boy can't finish and he's a tad on the slow side.
I think Delgado is building up decent Chem with Gio and in the first couple of games there were some nice give and go's between Endoh and Gio so perhaps something to build there as well. It's really only jozy who isn't linking up well with anyone..

and lovitz, seems lost out there. but he doesn't make DP money so I'm not pissed about it

[jloome]

Oso and Gio do play off each other well but like they said, the boy can't finish and he's a tad on the slow side.
I think Delgado is building up decent Chem with Gio and in the first couple of games there were some nice give and go's between Endoh and Gio so perhaps something to build there as well. It's really only jozy who isn't linking up well with anyone..

I think it's only natural that Gio will be blocked out by two big central defenders if he plays up top alone. He can't always create a yard from nothing when he's stranded.

I sometimes wonder why we don't play a 3-5-2 given how we have no wingers and the best combo up top has both altidore and giovinco. Something like


-----------Seba---Jozy-----------
-----Osorio/Cheyrou---Johnson-----
Morrow------Bradley--------Beitashour
-----Moore--Perquis--Williams--
-------------Irwin------------

Both Giovinco and Jozy are good at drifting wide, and we'd maintain our solidity while making better use of our forwards' talents.

[TFC Tifoso]

Oso and Gio do play off each other well but like they said, the boy can't finish and he's a tad on the slow side.
I think Delgado is building up decent Chem with Gio and in the first couple of games there were some nice give and go's between Endoh and Gio so perhaps something to build there as well. It's really only jozy who isn't linking up well with anyone..

I seen this a bit last year as well, and for me Delgado is the only other (starting) option right now.....Seba and Endoh looked ok together in the first game, but Seba seemed to pass up on giving Endoh opportunities in Game 2......

I mention Osorio because despite his shortfalls, he seems to be the most advanced in the quality I consider most important to play with guys like Seba and Altidore, and that's IQ.....hes ahead of the rest of our options in that department imo.....

[TFC Tifoso]

I think it's only natural that Gio will be blocked out by two big central defenders if he plays up top alone. He can't always create a yard from nothing when he's stranded.

agreed....Seba is completely wasted alone up top.....

[portu]

that and his lack of incisiveness. He can't finish and he doesn't play enough of the dangerous balls necessary for someone playing that high up the pitch.
I think he's just indecisive when it comes to shooting the ball, Oso has shown he can play those dangerous balls and is really good at it as well imo

[ensco]

Team is sounding the right note here. Moving on. For what it's worth

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-tfc-mls-major-league-soccer-greg-vanney-will-johnson-michael-bradley/

[Yohan]

I think it's only natural that Gio will be blocked out by two big central defenders if he plays up top alone. He can't always create a yard from nothing when he's stranded.

I sometimes wonder why we don't play a 3-5-2 given how we have no wingers and the best combo up top has both altidore and giovinco. Something like


-----------Seba---Jozy-----------
-----Osorio/Cheyrou---Johnson-----
Morrow------Bradley--------Beitashour
-----Moore--Perquis--Williams--
-------------Irwin------------

Both Giovinco and Jozy are good at drifting wide, and we'd maintain our solidity while making better use of our forwards' talents.
IIRC Vanney tried a variant of 3-5-2 for couple of games last season. Wasn't pretty.

Only team that's tried 3-5-2 or something like that this season is NYCFC. And they can get away with it at home due to small pitch at Yankees Stadium. Still, it's been a mixed result for them so far.

3-5-2 is a pretty hard system to learn especially when most MLS defenders are used to playing 4 at the back. It's not something that can be learned midseason and expect to be effective at it. Personally, I think 4-1-3-2 is the best system for TFC, considering how many box to box mids and no strong wingers.

[ensco]

Maybe give Morgan a go on the wing?

[Yohan]

Maybe give Morgan a go on the wing?
he can't be any worse than Lovitz. Even if he's only got one move he uses all the freaking time.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

4-3-3 with Jozy in the middle

[jloome]

4-3-3 with Jozy in the middle

Aach, he's so petulant about that. He made it clear after Sunderland that he felt his best position was as a wide forward, not a target man, and he's better with the ball at his feet. I don't think it's true, either, but if a guy thinks that, you wonder if you'll get your best out of him playing a role he doesn't want. That's why I thought keeping him in a two-man front made sense.

[notthesun]

I would not mind seeing a 4-1-3-2 tried at some point. The defensive makeup is basically the same if you stick Bradley in front of the backline. Just have to mind the wings a little more.

-------Giovinco---Altidore---------
----Osorio---Johnson----Cheyrou--
------------Bradley---------------
Morrow--Moor--Perquis--Beitashour
------------Irwin------------------

Something like that. And if we want something more offensive it's a pretty easy switch to a 4-3-1-2 (Giovinco could play in the hole, or keep him up top and put Osorio or Delgado there - heck, I have a suspicion that Cheyrou might actually be a great playmaker in that role). It gets more vets on the pitch at the same time in a formation that makes sense. On the flip side, there's no obvious role for wingers like Lovitz or Endoh.

[jloome]

Maybe give Morgan a go on the wing?

I think his crossing is underrated, he has good foot speed, he can beat a man occasionally on the dribble. I don't think he'll ever start there and when he was playing regular a few seasons ago, his man marking seemed a lot stronger than it has in the last two seasons, so maybe to get the most of him at fullback he just needs to play regularly. He didn't ever really get a chance in a team of this quality.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Aach, he's so petulant about that. He made it clear after Sunderland that he felt his best position was as a wide forward, not a target man, and he's better with the ball at his feet. I don't think it's true, either, but if a guy thinks that, you wonder if you'll get your best out of him playing a role he doesn't want. That's why I thought keeping him in a two-man front made sense.

My argument to him would be, when has he proved that hes great out wide, not to mention that playing down the centre doesnt always mean he HAS to play down the centre, its just most of the time. More or less let him prove/earn his right to play where he wants, althoughi suspect somewhere along the line when hes played down the middle well enough hed realize hes fine where he is obviously this is all speculation through me

[OgtheDim]

FWIW

http://toronto-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/ProjectedNERevs.png

I'd like to see them actually try this. We gotta try Altidore at the tip and Seba on the left or we will never really know if it works.

[ag futbol]

I think his crossing is underrated, he has good foot speed, he can beat a man occasionally on the dribble. I don't think he'll ever start there and when he was playing regular a few seasons ago, his man marking seemed a lot stronger than it has in the last two seasons, so maybe to get the most of him at fullback he just needs to play regularly. He didn't ever really get a chance in a team of this quality.
Anyone who is getting beat by Morgan on the dribble is both extremely slow to learn and too lazy to read a scouting report.

That said, I agree give it a shot. Lovitz just doesn't work.

[Ivy]

I actually think that the Nelsen type 4-4-1-1 would work really well for this roster.

[khso11]

FWIW

http://toronto-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/ProjectedNERevs.png

I'd like to see them actually try this. We gotta try Altidore at the tip and Seba on the left or we will never really know if it works.

Just put in Oso instead of Delgado, then it should be good. We need to use Delgado's energy in the 2nd half.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

line up above looks great to me

[jloome]

line up above looks great to me

Yeah, defensive look in the mid against a team that plays well at home. Is Kofi still out?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Yeah, defensive look in the mid against a team that plays well at home. Is Kofi still out?

Yeah like that alot too
No idea tbh, how has he played for them?
Gonna be a grinder, think we have the edge on attack but they have the edge in general for being at home on turf

[jloome]

Yeah like that alot too
No idea tbh, how has he played for them?
Gonna be a grinder, think we have the edge on attack but they have the edge in general for being at home on turf

He was off on a red last game but is back against us. New England hasn't looked very coherent so far.

[OgtheDim]

They have nobody on the updated as of yesterday injury list and we have only Simonin.

[bgnewf]

they are getting some players back from suspension as well.

[anto7]

From training today, apparently Endoh is doubtful again with his leg contusion. Williams sick but should still travel with team.

[jloome]

Good piece on how the long ball is currently not working for us:

http://thehighpress.blogspot.ca/2016/04/toronto-fcs-new-direct-attack.html

[molenshtain]

That article is based on a logical fallacy, though. Just because we haven't attempted to play on the front foot doesn't mean we can't or don't intend to in the medium to long term. It's beside the point. If the main goal of this road trip is to integrate the youngsters, build a solid defensive foundation and try to gain 8 points from these 8 games, then great. We're pretty on track to meet all those goals.

Because Altidore's been out that means that in the short term we're going to have to use an attacking strategy that doesn't suit many of the qualities of our attacking players. Once he's fully back and the team feels comfortable with the defensive base they've built, then it's quite likely we'll break from our shell and demonstrate the attacking prowess and proactive ability on the ball we showed many times last season. Nothing has demonstrated so far that the way we're playing atm is the style of soccer Vanney wants to play for the rest of the season. It's more about balancing a number of different necessity's and being pragmatic in choosing which of those are most important in the grand scheme of things. Playing the way we've played so far has been more of a necessary evil than anything else.

[ag futbol]

Good piece on how the long ball is currently not working for us:

http://thehighpress.blogspot.ca/2016/04/toronto-fcs-new-direct-attack.html
I'm not sure I buy the thesis.

The author suggests long ball / bunker + counter is our tactic. I'd say the inability of the FW to transition quickly and provide outlets is leading to more long passes than ideal.

We'll see how Altidore does on the hold up play this year but I've historically found this to be an underwhelming aspect of his game given his size.

Bottom line is roster needs tweaking and we need guys who can put the ball in the net when called upon. 2016's FW is 2015's RB position, except it's a less noticeable eyesore.

[Red CB Toronto]

Reds in fligtht to Boston.

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12961638_481266468733809_479289311655436243_n.jpg? oh=f912b3f283b0d7b203ebec461009e97e&oe=57BF2979

[C.Ronaldo]

dems some nice sweaturs

[OgtheDim]

I would actually consider buying one of those.

[C.Ronaldo]

From training today, apparently Endoh is doubtful again with his leg contusion. Williams sick but should still travel with team.

i still rather see Lovitz buffing shoes and making Vanneys in-game espresso

[OgtheDim]

I think I saw Endoh at the end of this.

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/718443831088320512

[molenshtain]

Pretty sure that's Chapman at the end

[TFC Tifoso]

bah....Endoh.....Chapman.....what's the diff?? g:D

[JavierMartini]

The problem is when alitidore comes on and only tries cheeky flicks and back heels. That needs to not happen. He needs to hold the ball up and either feed a through ball to gio or get something on target. If i was vanney i would have been furious with his few minutes last match.

[OgtheDim]

bah....Endoh.....Chapman.....what's the diff?? g:D

:redface:

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/718527908076265472

[OgtheDim]

This is our only game at NER this season. After this, the only 3 plastic pitches we will play on our Portland and 2 games in Orlando.

[reggie]

i feel a 3 nil loss....i will be glad to be wrong

[boozilla]

Long balls from the back, more often than not end up in dispossession and should not happen unless the defender is under duress. Hoofball sucks to watch.

[Onyx]

This is our only game at NER this season. After this, the only 3 plastic pitches we will play on our Portland and 2 games in Orlando.

potentially 4 ... we make it thru CCL -- all three teams on other side of the bracket have field turf

[OgtheDim]

Game Day :scarf:

[Deltron]

I am feeling a 0-2 win today! get back on the winning track. Gio and Jozy to score our goals. :scarf:

[portu]

Red card from Will Johnson today and then we proceed to get destroyed 3-0 hope I'm wrong

[ronzilla]

3 points or vanney out

[MightyDM]

Not sure what thread to put this in, but the more I think about what the MLS chief referee said, the more furious I am. Peter Walton? " We are calling the laws as they are written. Other leagues do not". Who is he to think he knows better than every other league? Maybe that's why he had to leave the BPL.

[Ivy]

Not sure what thread to put this in, but the more I think about what the MLS chief referee said, the more furious I am. Peter Walton? " We are calling the laws as they are written. Other leagues do not". Who is he to think he knows better than every other league? Maybe that's why he had to leave the BPL.
What bothers me the most is the constant fouling on Seba that goes unpunished.

[Yohan]

Not sure what thread to put this in, but the more I think about what the MLS chief referee said, the more furious I am. Peter Walton? " We are calling the laws as they are written. Other leagues do not". Who is he to think he knows better than every other league? Maybe that's why he had to leave the BPL.
Every league has their own interpretation of the rules. EPL games are called differently than Champion's League games, for example.

*shrug* Who knows who's really correct, when the Laws of the Game allows a lot of leeway for ref's discretion.

[ag futbol]

Not sure what thread to put this in, but the more I think about what the MLS chief referee said, the more furious I am. Peter Walton? " We are calling the laws as they are written. Other leagues do not". Who is he to think he knows better than every other league? Maybe that's why he had to leave the BPL.
Agreed, the attitude he is taking is naive to the extreme. MLS is screwing this up royally.

Ultimately this is an entertainment product and the correct answer to how the rules are interpreted is nothing more than what people want to see. Some consideration should also be given to how capable your officials are of enforcing the standards you are setting. This attempt to strictly interpret the rules is a failure on both levels.

[Richard]

Hey if its of any consolation at least we're not West Ham lol.

[jloome]

Agreed, the attitude he is taking is naive to the extreme. MLS is screwing this up royally.

Ultimately this is an entertainment product and the correct answer to how the rules are interpreted is nothing more than what people want to see. Some consideration should also be given to how capable your officials are of enforcing the standards you are setting. This attempt to strictly interpret the rules is a failure on both levels.

Just as I'm reading this someone deliberately stamps on Aguero's foot in the Citeh west Brom match and the ref... gives them a stern talking to.

[jloome]

Every league has their own interpretation of the rules. EPL games are called differently than Champion's League games, for example.

*shrug* Who knows who's really correct, when the Laws of the Game allows a lot of leeway for ref's discretion.

Not all traditions are good, but ignoring all tradition is almost always a bad idea.

[molenshtain]

3 points or vanney out


are you for real?

[OgtheDim]

So apparently its the whites again today. Time to support the
http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/sites/default/files/styles/logo-thumbnail/public/0011/0950/brand.gif?itok=YuWWz3ff

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/718876262349934593


I'll take that.

[portu]

Would have preferred Endoh over Delgado but I guess he's injured so I'll take this lineup

[molenshtain]

lopsided 4-3-3 then. Delgado shouldering a lot of defensive responsibility on one side (tierney's side) giving Seba a pretty free role on the other. Seems like pretty good thinkin'.

[OgtheDim]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/718876916153909248

[GhostKiller]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/718876262349934593


I'll take that.

Thats a sexy lineup

[AdamAM]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/718876262349934593


I'll take that.

Holy fack. This is the best XI we have ever had take the field.

[Yohan]

sexy starting lineup. thin bench though

[Hugh Jazz]

Good chance we'll see Babouli and Chapman though.

[OgtheDim]

Hmm....MLS Live is the NER feed. No way I'm going to listen to Mariner.


Thus
http://cricfree.sx/tsn-2-live-stream-

[Bobo]

Mixed feelings about seeing Jozy back on this cursed pitch.

[ronzilla]

Just walked in...anyone have streams ?


Edit: found 1

http://firstsrowsports.eu/soccer/first-new-england-vs-toronto-fc-row68b407

[the beat]

Any and all streams!!!! My workplace has a firewall that blocks certain sites. Haven't found one that works yet.

[Alonso]

Hmm....MLS Live is the NER feed. No way I'm going to listen to Mariner.


Thus
http://cricfree.sx/tsn-2-live-stream-


Mariner is giving me PTSD flash backs. I'm curled up rocking myself on the couch.

[Alonso]

Irwin just saved us there

[mowe]

What a save by Irwin, we should be 1-0 down.

[Red CB Toronto]

Clint's jersey is doing weird things on tv, its reflecting in strange way !!

[molenshtain]

so a 4-4-2 today then.

I don't get it.

[OgtheDim]

Bradley let that happen. Needed to be called onto him.

[molenshtain]

moving the ball through midfield really well so far.

[Yohan]

Oy... Beita blew his mark there

[smtavare]

Bradley to me is meh! Not worth the money

[molenshtain]

fuck

[vortexdr]

Lol....typical....and to add to that I think gio had one touch so far

[mowe]

Another early goal conceded.

[OgtheDim]

That was just awful marking.

[molenshtain]

exact same fucking goal we allowed the last time we played them there. How fucking hard is it for Osorio to close down a cross.

[smtavare]

See Moor yell at Behshour on that mis-cover

[molenshtain]

Lol....typical....and to add to that I think gio had one touch so far

maybe he should work harder to show for the ball.

[smtavare]

Maybe the middle are sitting too far back and also can't get the ball forward to anyone, personally, I think they have been the weakest link so far this season, especially Bradley

[vortexdr]

Ugh so many misplaced passes....hard to watch this....midfield letting us down

[OgtheDim]

Our passing has been awful - worst I've seen all season.

[molenshtain]

Maybe the middle are sitting too far back and also can't get the ball forward to anyone, personally, I think they have been the weakest link so far this season, especially Bradley

They have no one to play the ball too because the forwards aren't making the proper runs.

And bradley's been pretty phenomenal in a more limited role this season. Today they're asking him to go back to a slightly more refined version of Nelsenball, which is weird to say the least.

[notthesun]

23 minutes in, Giovinco's touched the ball 3 times. Not good.

[the beat]

This is fucking atrocious.

[Yohan]

Altidore has been horrid so far

[vortexdr]

Altidore really is useless....5m a year for that...lol

[OgtheDim]

Altidore really is useless....5m a year for that...lol

Its less then 4 and its certainly not for him as a defender.

[smtavare]

I miss the Black Onyx away Jerseys, these remind me that the Argos are sneaking into our stadium with those ugly blue shorts - it's also seems to be bad luck, we play shitier when wearing the current blue and white ones

[SoccMan2]

So who is our creative midfielder can someone answer that?

[notthesun]

Whatever we're doing is not working. Combination play is horrible and Nguyen is doing whatever the hell he wants, so much space in front of our back line for him, he's just picking his passes. This is not going to end well if we don't make changes.

[smtavare]

Imagine Lee Nyugen or Bradley both at their prime, who would you want, or even Laba

[molenshtain]

So who is our creative midfielder can someone answer that?

its supposed to be seba


Really hard to comment on how good the guys are excecuting their roles when Vanney got his tactics so obviously wrong today. It's really disappointg, I'm one of his biggest fan's and I thought he was showing real tactical chops this season. If they're one game you don't play this type of 4-4-2 against, It's new england. I have no idea what he's thinking.

[69Chevy396]

I am called a troll, frequently, by members who don't like reading negative comments about this team. So, I will refrain from making them. Instead,something positive from me. I like the new kits. Thankyou.

[vortexdr]

Its less then 4 and its certainly not for him as a defender. huh? It's 4.75m.....that's closer to 5m...wow people actually try to defend the guy.

[molenshtain]

Imagine Lee Nyugen or Bradley both at their prime, who would you want, or even Laba

Bradley, 100 times out of 100. Nguyen and Laba are frankly no where near as good as he is. The difference is that they're being played in a way that maximises their abilities. Bradley, today, is not.

[Alonso]

Altidore should've earned his pay cheque right there.

[molenshtain]

I am called a troll, frequently, by members who don't like reading negative comments about this team. So, I will refrain from making them. Instead,something positive from me. I like the new kits. Thankyou.


Do you really think that's what people were saying in that thread?

[portu]

What I've noticed this year is Perquis>Moor but also that Perquis isn't squat without having a player like Moor next to him.

[OgtheDim]

huh? It's 4.75m.....that's closer to 5m...wow people actually try to defend the guy.

I do defend him when people are shitting on him for a play WHERE HE IS ASKED TO BE A FREAKING LB.

[mowe]

WHAT a turn by Seba! Not a penalty though.

[vortexdr]

I do defend him when people are shitting on him for a play WHERE HE IS ASKED TO BE A FREAKING RB.
Then he should clear the fucking ball and not dwell on it...holy shit....this guy....

[OgtheDim]

So, we seem to have been able to get through their midfield a couple of times. Lets see what happens. Seba is basically being an AM.

[smtavare]

So what is Bradley's optimium role,same fuckin story again, not playing him in the right position...,playing him behind Messi would still not be a good role for him! Good players make the players around them better, not the other way around - See DeGuzman 2.0

[JavierMartini]

I hate turf! Turf lives don't matter g:D

[Alonso]

Two solid chances created for TFC so far. Looks like there getting into this game. Hopefully we score before half time

[OgtheDim]

Then he should clear the fucking ball and not dwell on it...holy shit....this guy....

Oh COME ON.

Do you know a SINGLE forward who is good as a defender?

You have a narrative.

Others disagree.

Deal with it.

[molenshtain]

So what is Bradley's optimium role,same fuckin story again, not playing him in the right position...,playing him behind Messi would still not be a good role for him! Good players make the players around them better, not the other way around - See DeGuzman 2.0

A defensive midfilder in a five man midfield, the same way he's played all season. he's been very good at it say all stats and objective viewers.

[OgtheDim]

Beitashour's been crap.

[Bobo]

At least they were able to come into the match a bit more as the first half progressed. I'd like to see a TFC after the interval that is prepared impose their will for a whole 45. They'll need to come out guns blazing because I doubt Jozy sees this match out.

[smtavare]

Fuck Shit RB problems again!

[notthesun]

First 25 minutes were awful, our worst soccer of the season. The rest was a lot better, but we're still struggling to create chances. This would be our 3rd game in a row if it continues where that's been an issue. I'm getting concerned about our ability to create scoring chances in this 4-3-3.

[69Chevy396]

Do you really think that's what people were saying in that thread?
Not sure how to respond. This team needed to improve in so many areas in the off season, and, on paper, they certainly did. But, the way they play, the tactics, the organization, the execution, the intensity, seems lacking. Hope this changes before they fire yet another manager.

[OgtheDim]

Not sure how to respond. This team needed to improve in so many areas in the off season, and, on paper, they certainly did. But, the way they play, the tactics, the organization, the execution, the intensity, seems lacking. Hope this changes before they fire yet another manager.

My issue is if you believe that, why were you not commenting like that during the first 3 game threads?

I get negative comments. I make them.

My issue is with people who only come on when TFC are losing to make negative comments. When TFC play well, they are not to be found.

[molenshtain]

Not sure how to respond. This team needed to improve in so many areas in the off season, and, on paper, they certainly did. But, the way they play, the tactics, the organization, the execution, the intensity, seems lacking. Hope this changes before they fire yet another manager.

The point was that all teams are this shit on the road in MLS. going into this game we had four points from four games, half way to 8 in 8 and we could have had more. The idea that we're an outlier in our shitness is devoid of reality. so your extrapolating consequences of our play in the first four games are is a useless exercise, as you're drawing from false premises. Because we aren't going playing totally proactive, world conquering winning football right now doesn't mean that won't happen in the future. Do i really need to explain this?

[molenshtain]

First 25 minutes were awful, our worst soccer of the season. The rest was a lot better, but we're still struggling to create chances. This would be our 3rd game in a row if it continues where that's been an issue. I'm getting concerned about our ability to create scoring chances in this 4-3-3.


We aren't playing a 4-3-3 today. I think that's actually a huge issue in why we're not playing well.

[JavierMartini]

altidore is trash. Rob friend coulda finished that header >.>

[notthesun]

We aren't playing a 4-3-3 today. I think that's actually a huge issue in why we're not playing well.

It looked like Delgado pushed higher up late in the half.

[molenshtain]

It looked like Delgado pushed higher up late in the half.

Maybe. I've been making pizza for the last half hour. It certainly wasn't a 4-3-3 for the first half hour.

[smtavare]

We need to Switch Johnson's position with Bradley and let him go forward

[jloome]

We aren't playing a 4-3-3 today. I think that's actually a huge issue in why we're not playing well.

I'm a little worried by this outing.

[craigtfc]

Get in!!

[Chevy]

Seba!

[smtavare]

Zzzzzzzzz! Change it up fuckin Vanney

[molenshtain]

there we go. The world is, in fact, not ending.

[Hugh Jazz]

That evens out our ref decision karma.

[flamehawk]

Yesssssss!!!! Going from scared shitless at the penalty shout to a goal on the other end!

[molenshtain]

I think that's also Altidore's first assist for us.

[Alonso]

Woooooot!!!!! Wooooot!

[notthesun]

Lot of frustration released by Giovinco with that goal. That's the most fired-up of his celebrations I've seen.

Morrow might be getting suspended for that tackle, by the way.

[OgtheDim]

Yeah, that's a yellow. Altidore off at minute 80 please.

[smtavare]

Altidore off for Babouli

[mistercorporate]

The best part of that goal is it was done in such a badass manner...Altidore showing his talent. Giovinco...our reliable superstar!

[notthesun]

Johnson's work rate is incredible. That's two counter-attacks he's shut down single-handedly this half.

[Yohan]

totally bailed out on that Bunbury non PK call

[Bobo]

totally bailed out on that Bunbury non PK call

Glad someone mentioned it. Between the non-call, the deflection and Morrow not receiving at least a yellow, that's quite possibly the most fortunate 60 second stretch this team has ever had. I think they deserve it too.

[OgtheDim]

There we go. 70 minutes, does the job. Mo time.

[Yohan]

I'm really liking Terry Dunfield? as commentator. He's got some interesting analysis

[Dub Narcotic]

That's not Terry Dunfield that's Janusz Michalik from ESPN, and, yes, he's always good.

[Yohan]

That's not Terry Dunfield that's Janusz Michalik from ESPN, and, yes, he's always good.
oh cool.

[Yohan]

Seba should have put that throughball for Oso... gah

[Dub Narcotic]

This team looks a million times better right now than they did earlier.

[Yohan]

Seba almost scores after skinning 2 Revs defenders. So close

[vortexdr]

Johnson has has been great in the 2nd

[ag futbol]

I know the game is on, but I need everyone to drop what their doing to acknowledge Kyle Becker scored a goal today.

Expect the asteroid to hit earth within 24 hours.

[Yohan]

That non call for Davies could have been a PK too, barging in from behind on Davies

[ensco]

That looked like a goal to me.

[Yohan]

Played well in 2nd half, but lucky to get a draw IMO

[OgtheDim]

We got away with one there.

Literally.

[Dub Narcotic]

Almost had a heart attack there. Can't say it was deserved but the team's luck was bound to even out. This team has finally fixed the center back situation, now they need some wing players.

[Bobo]

Tell you what, start the car. By the skin of their teeth they escaped with a point. Those final ten minutes were hard to watch, so many mistakes and no balance in the mid. Don't think that was a PK on Bradley though.

[JoeM]

Not so good. Shaky times at the back. Maybe a penalty or two should have went for New England - but we deserve some decisions in our favour too. The worst we've looked his year, though. So wasteful in possession - if we're going to build through the middle, we need to link together more than a couple passes - these pointless aerial balls into the middle aren't doing us any favours. But hey, any point on the road is a good one.








Irwin - 7 - No mistakes on his end. A couple good saves.
Beitashour - 6 - Was solely at blame for the Revs goal, made some great challenges in the box as the game progressed to make up for it.
Perquis - 6 - Nothing spectacular but solid again from Perquis.
Moor - 6 - Very legitimate shout for a penalty on a bad tackle, otherwise okay.
Morrow - 6 - Little to do.
Delgado - 5 - Trouble linking passes, often throwing things into the air and hoping. Not a great job tracking back or going forward.
Bradley - 7 - Makes things tick in the midfield. Maybe too many negative passes, but rarely gives up possession.
Johnson - 7 - Another hard nosed performance. Links well with Bradley. Should finish better.
Osorio - 6 - Played Giovinco in well for what should have been a goal, other than that he was quiet.
Giovinco - 7 - Scored, but had trouble in this one. Should have scored in the first half but made a mess of it. Looked dangerous at times in the second half.
Altidore - 6 - Doesn't always look motivated, but better in the second half. Good hold up play for the assist and to set up a chance for Johnson.


Subs
Babouli (For Altidore, 70') - 5 - Early days but hasn't looked MLS quality for me, yet.
Morgan (For Delgado, 84')

[ensco]

That's not Terry Dunfield that's Janusz Michalik from ESPN, and, yes, he's always good.

Very solid. He does a lot of Revs games, he is part of the local setup there. At least he used to be.

[jloome]

Tell you what, start the car. By the skin of their teeth they escaped with a point. Those final ten minutes were hard to watch, so many mistakes and no balance in the mid. Don't think that was a PK on Bradley though.

Very lucky today. Very lucky on a couple of calls, a deflection. We were disjointed for most of the day. Beitashour had a howler, Bradley's passing was atrocious, and Osorio looks very poor going back. Jozy was awful until he set up the goal, which is sort of his MO I guess.

[portu]

That's a point gifted to us due to poor MLS officiating

[jloome]

Very solid. He does a lot of Revs games, he is part of the local setup there. At least he used to be.

Not anymore. I'm watching the Revs and its Mariner now. And he's as astute at color as being a head coach.

[Alonso]

We got away with one there.

Literally.



Start the car! g:D

[vortexdr]

Can count ourselves lucky.....ref bailed us out.....good point!

[portu]

Damien Perquis was a monster today proving to be worth every penny

Moor on the other hand was very shaky

[notthesun]

We got the better of the luck with the calls today. Probably escaped with a point in the end, but as far as I'm concerned it's luck we earned after getting screwed over in the last 3 games.

Vanney needs to burn the plans for whatever that first 25 minutes were. It was a decent performance otherwise. Carried a good amount of play in the 2nd half (those last 7-8 minutes though, man that was nerve-racking).

Still have some concerns about our chance creation. Have to keep in mind these are all road games... still, something to keep an eye on.

Bradley MotM. Hot garbage first 25 minutes (as was everyone) but after that he was massive defensively. Completely shut down Nguyen in the 2nd half, had a ton of key tackles and interceptions. Irwin with a fantastic performance as well, another worthy choice.

[Alonso]

Very lucky today. Very lucky on a couple of calls, a deflection. We were disjointed for most of the day. Beitashour had a howler, Bradley's passing was atrocious, and Osorio looks very poor going back. Jozy was awful until he set up the goal, which is sort of his MO I guess.


Beitashour had a touch and go play with Johnson were he tapped it back to Johnson and then fucking stopped playing!

He didn't want the ball back?!? What the fuck is that?

[JavierMartini]

we should have lost this. 2 no calls and a good goal called offside. Jozy needs to not miss free headers from 5 yards. How many millions are we wasting on him.

[OgtheDim]

Irwin's distribution is just soooooooooo much better then what we have seen apart from Cesar. And his positioning is solid.

[molenshtain]

we should have lost this. 2 no calls and a good goal called offside. Jozy needs to not miss free headers from 5 yards. How many millions are we wasting on him.

he got the assist on the goal today. Had to track down a ball, hold off two guys, then make the right decision the play the pass into the oncoming Seba instead of shooting. Put in a proper shift imo in his first start back. It wasn't amazing, but it's a start.

[Lennon]

Damien Perquis was a monster today proving to be worth every penny

Moor on the other hand was very shaky

+1. Great distribution.

I'd also like to point out that Irwin now has more successful passes this year than Bendik had in his 73 games here.

[vortexdr]

Irwin,perquis and Johnson my picks. All three had solid games

[mowe]

1 shot on target vs 8 against, take the point and run. We have to create more chances, our wide players especially haven't offered anything going forward.

[Alonso]

+1. Great distribution.

I'd also like to point out that Irwin now has more successful passes this year than Bendik had in his 73 games here.


Wow.

Didn't know that. That says a lot.

[ronzilla]

Can count ourselves lucky.....ref bailed us out.....good point!

Yeah that was a foul from bradley in the box that should have been a NE penalty. Very lucky to come out with a point.

[69Chevy396]

The point was that all teams are this shit on the road in MLS. going into this game we had four points from four games, half way to 8 in 8 and we could have had more. The idea that we're an outlier in our shitness is devoid of reality. so your extrapolating consequences of our play in the first four games are is a useless exercise, as you're drawing from false premises. Because we aren't going playing totally proactive, world conquering winning football right now doesn't mean that won't happen in the future. Do i really need to explain this?
Fine. I get it. However, with 3 designated players on the team, one considered the finest in league history, a solid new defensive corp, the addition of a few seasoned MLS players, when, exactly, does not his team begin to play like one deserving of the accolades, and pre-season hype? How much better does the squad have to be, to consistently remain in the upper tier of MLS? This, is what bugs me. The team keeps adding better players, but the on field product, barely moves.

[vortexdr]

Our attack was really isolated until Seba was basically allowed to free roam and link up play.
Honestly not having any kind of pace on the wings or as an alternative a proper AM is going to make creating chances tough.

Playing a 4 4 2 with welfare wingers will never work.

[smtavare]

I think the word was out on us to clog the midfield and to force the play to the wings, where we lack any good options since middle of last year - looks like the same tatic is being used against us still as we haven't done anything about our wing play!

[molenshtain]

Fine. I get it. However, with 3 designated players on the team, one considered the finest in league history, a solid new defensive corp, the addition of a few seasoned MLS players, when, exactly, does not his team begin to play like one deserving of the accolades, and pre-season hype? How much better does the squad have to be, to consistently remain in the upper tier of MLS? This, is what bugs me. The team keeps adding better players, but the on field product, barely moves.

When we go home. That's when you'll see the noticeable improvement. until then we're just playing game to game, building on small things and trying to get by.

[General Woolfe]

I suppose I should be happy with a point from a venue that's traditionally been unfavourable to us, but again I cant help feel this side is underachieving. They do deserve some credit today for organizing themselves and fighting back after a dreadful opening 20 minutes, but the question remains why they were so poor out of the blocks.

Id like to see Cheyrou back in the side and regardless of what he wants, Michael Bradley playing further forward. I think we can afford to line up with one of Osorio/Delgado/Lovitz/Endoh in the side, but they are still essentially rookies and their inexperience is evident whenever we start more than one of them. I also have to say the jury is still out for me on both Beitashour and Johnston, both have been far from convincing thus far.

So here we are five games in and we are averaging a point a game which most would have deemed acceptable given the killer road trip start to the season. However that is two relatively weak sides we have faced recently and we should have done far better than one point out of six.

[General Woolfe]

When we go home. That's when you'll see the noticeable improvement. until then we're just playing game to game, building on small things and trying to get by.

It really doesnt seem that way. Our home form hasnt been noticeably different from our away form. A break in constant travel however will be beneficial

[molenshtain]

So here we are five games in and we are averaging a point a game which most would have deemed acceptable given the killer road trip start to the season. However that is two relatively weak sides we have faced recently and we should have done far better than one point out of six.

But we played a man down the entire game in Colorado. Expecting more from that game is beyond reasonable imo.

[Alonso]

Fine. I get it. However, with 3 designated players on the team, one considered the finest in league history, a solid new defensive corp, the addition of a few seasoned MLS players, when, exactly, does not his team begin to play like one deserving of the accolades, and pre-season hype? How much better does the squad have to be, to consistently remain in the upper tier of MLS? This, is what bugs me. The team keeps adding better players, but the on field product, barely moves.


We're in the middle of an 8 game road trip. So to answer your question... when we have 8 road games and 8 home games we can reassess.

The road record of MLS teams in general due to the league parity is not good.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/MikeMartignago/status/718914384056090624

Really can't imagine Morrow escaping punishment for this.

[PopePouri]

NE aren't a weak team. Their squad is underperforming.

[molenshtain]

There really is no evidence in recent seasons to back that up. Our home form hasnt been noticeably different from our away form. At least it seems that way. A break in constant travel however will be beneficial

What? yes it has. look it up. we went 11-5-1 at home and 4-10-2 away last year.

Also the first- 10-12 games in every MLS season are about teams figuring out their shit. New Jersey only won 4 of their first 14 games last year before going on a scorched earth run to the supporters shield.

[ManUtd4ever]

Based on our run of bad luck the first few games, we deserved a point out of this one.

MLS is a tough league in which to earn results on the road, so 5 points at this point isn't too bad.

[shwade]

Perquis is a beast. I guess Jozy's assist negates the rest of his uselessness?
Jackson would've been nice on the wings...better than Delgado or Oso there.

[Yohan]

Fine. I get it. However, with 3 designated players on the team, one considered the finest in league history, a solid new defensive corp, the addition of a few seasoned MLS players, when, exactly, does not his team begin to play like one deserving of the accolades, and pre-season hype? How much better does the squad have to be, to consistently remain in the upper tier of MLS? This, is what bugs me. The team keeps adding better players, but the on field product, barely moves.
1. Takes players a while to jell together.

2. TFC have improved player roster wise, but so has most of the other teams. It's not like the rest of the league is standing still while TFC gets new guys.

[Yohan]

Perquis is a beast. I guess Jozy's assist negates the rest of his uselessness?
Jackson would've been nice on the wings...better than Delgado or Oso there.
One good play (well, he had like 3 decent plays in 2nd half) doesn't change the fact that he was suppose to hold up and create space for Gio. Altidore was suppose to take the battering so that Seba didn't have to.

Instead, Altidore played a poacher role esp in 1st half.

[PAOK17]

we should have lost this. 2 no calls and a good goal called offside. Jozy needs to not miss free headers from 5 yards. How many millions are we wasting on him.
It wasn't called off for offside. The assistant called it for the ball going out before it was played back into the middle. From the two quick replays shown by the NE feed, it was hard to tell whether or not it was a good call. The camera angles were horrible. It's possible it did, but also possible it didn't. You'd need a camera on the line to tell you.

[Alonso]

1. Takes players a while to jell together.

2. TFC have improved player roster wise, but so has most of the other teams. It's not like the rest of the league is standing still while TFC gets new guys.


Yeah the league is improving very steadily... fuck, LA Galaxy have really put a team together. How do they get it under the salary cap?!?

Anyway, we are a middle of the pack team IMO with all the improvements other teams have made as well.

[PAOK17]

https://twitter.com/MikeMartignago/status/718914384056090624

Really can't imagine Morrow escaping punishment for this.
Per the box score he did get it. In the NE feed they mentioned it was given to him after the goal was scored. They must have let play go on due to advantage for NE?

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2016-04-09-new-england-revolution-vs-toronto-fc/boxscore

[OgtheDim]

One good play (well, he had like 3 decent plays in 2nd half) doesn't change the fact that he was suppose to hold up and create space for Gio. Altidore was suppose to take the battering so that Seba didn't have to.

Instead, Altidore played a poacher role esp in 1st half.


Agreed. He needs to reduce trying the flicks and stuff and get banging like he was in preseason. He has a great touch yes, but he tries to use it too often. Needs to keep it simple sometimes. He is at his best when he can make quick direct passes.


About the ball out on their goal. The one shot shows the linesman right on the corner spot - if he missed that, he's incompetent.

[Cuchulain]

I've never cussed so much watching a TFC game. we had no business getting a point today. We had 60% possession in the first half but that mostly spent passing backwards all the way to Irwin. They need to run with the ball much more. The ref gave us that point today. I guess Garber has finally started to feel sorry for us and told the refs we get the breaks from now on. We certainly won't win on our own. Not playing Greg Vanney football.

[ManUtd4ever]

I've never cussed so much watching a TFC game. we had no business getting a point today. We had 60% possession in the first half but that mostly spent passing backwards all the way to Irwin. They need to run with the ball much more. The ref gave us that point today. I guess Garber has finally started to feel sorry for us and told the refs we get the breaks from now on. We certainly won't win on our own. Not playing Greg Vanney football.

It's natural for teams to play conservatively on the road. It's frustrating to watch because of our schedule to start the season. I'm sure that Vanney will loosen the reins a bit when we get back home.

[notthesun]

Per the box score he did get it. In the NE feed they mentioned it was given to him after the goal was scored. They must have let play go on due to advantage for NE?

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2016-04-09-new-england-revolution-vs-toronto-fc/boxscore

Huh, didn't realize that. Still, the disciplinary committee has no problem with suspending players for challenges that were given a yellow but they felt were red-worthy, so he could still be suspended.

[Detroit_TFC]

5 down, 3 to go. That's my match report.

[Soccerpro]

Our lack of width today really hurt us. Osorio and Delgado are not wingers, they're both slow.

[aajking]

Much better defense compared to last year, plus a reliable keeper. We're getting choked at mid, hoping that'll change as the team chemistry builds and players find each other up the field more. We need a solid winger to play opposite side of Morrow since he runs up. Lovitz can't be a starter. Delgado/Endoh will make do on Morrow's side.

[Oldtimer]

Not the best game, for sure. Pretty poor first half, better for some time during the second, just holding on at the end.

First time this year the bad MLS officiating went in TFC'S favour.

1 point more on a brutality long road trip.

[backbeat]

I just absolutely love that we should have lost - but got a result

f#%king beautiful

makes my weekend...

[Eastend]

What's impressing me so far is the calm the team is showing in possession. I'm not saying 100% perfect, far from it, but they're taking time, making short accurate passes more often the heaving it down the pitch.

Dom

[MightyDM]

Fine. I get it. However, with 3 designated players on the team, one considered the finest in league history, a solid new defensive corp, the addition of a few seasoned MLS players, when, exactly, does not his team begin to play like one deserving of the accolades, and pre-season hype? How much better does the squad have to be, to consistently remain in the upper tier of MLS? This, is what bugs me. The team keeps adding better players, but the on field product, barely moves.

I don't know how you saw that in the first three games. We had the best shape defensively in years, likely ever, and still carried a sting offensively. Last two games , not so much.

[notthesun]

http://www.thebentmusket.com/2016/4/9/11399852/revolution-vs-toronto-2016-watson-referee-changes-pro-tackles-red-cards-penalty-heaps

(http://www.thebentmusket.com/2016/4/9/11399852/revolution-vs-toronto-2016-watson-referee-changes-pro-tackles-red-cards-penalty-heaps)Je-Vaughn Watson saying he's afraid to tackle now with the new standard of refereeing.

[OgtheDim]

That article says "However, the assistant referee on that side does not appear to be in any position to be able to see if the ball is over the line or not."

This is Bull shit.

http://i.imgur.com/weK1Vkj.png


I don't really like screenshots when it comes to fouls because you don't see the whole story.

But, in the case of somebody saying the AR was out of position, the above indicates that is categorically false.


I can't tell from that angle if it is out. BUT, the AR has a pretty darn good view of the line, with nobody between him and the player and the player in the air when he kicks the ball.

If an AR is "out of position" when he's two feet more forward then in line, that's a standard that is impossible to reach.

[PopePouri]

If we're talking dubious calls and how the Revs were robbed, this looks like a penalty to me...

http://s17.postimg.org/fjvr02lmn/penalty.png

[SoccMan2]

I understand they are on the road but they have to play a more consistent game, that game could have easily been a loss by 2 or three goals. No excuses if this team does not finish in a position where it gets itself a playoff home game then this season will be considered another failed season like basically all the others. They have shown signs so far that they may be capable of finishing very high in the standings , however, they have also shown signs that they may be the same old TFC of the past also, let's hope that the signs that they are new and improved finally prevails in the end.

[KurtLarSUN]

Unless the AR is standing on the line, he can't possibly tell if the ball is "an inch" out of bounds. The AR is out of position, though it's likely impossible for him to be in position. AR should have let this goal stand.

[PAOK17]

If we're talking dubious calls and how the Revs were robbed, this looks like a penalty to me...

http://s17.postimg.org/fjvr02lmn/penalty.png
I was looking for a good angle of this. Again the NE feed showed really quick replays with Mariner the clown saying how there was nothing there. I had a feeling he caught the shooting foot. Reminds me of the penalty given in the world cup between greece and cote d'ivoire.

[Eastend]

If that's a TFC goal we say that ball is in and the ref is wrong calling it out. Sorry but no way he can tell from that position if that's in or out. We got away with one, or 3 or 4, these refs are just awful.

Dom

[ensco]

Early in the season, I am not that thrilled by points earned in games where we were outplayed, nor am I bothered by points lost when we were outplayed.

Seems to me we have only played well once in five games (at KC).

[ag futbol]

Unless the AR is standing on the line, he can't possibly tell if the ball is "an inch" out of bounds. The AR is out of position, though it's likely impossible for him to be in position. AR should have let this goal stand.
I don't know. When he's around 18 yards away and no more than 1-2 yards off the line? That's a fairly gradual angle, it shouldn't be too distorted.

[ensco]

That article says "However, the assistant referee on that side does not appear to be in any position to be able to see if the ball is over the line or not."

This is Bull shit.

http://i.imgur.com/weK1Vkj.png



Good pic.

In live action, I thought they blew the call, but if I had to make a call based on this pic only, I'd say that ball is out, based on where Koffie's left foot is.

Of course this pic isn't definitive because of lack of straight line perspective (parallax, etc)

[notthesun]

Early in the season, I am not that thrilled by points earned in games where we were outplayed, nor am I bothered by points lost when we were outplayed.

Seems to me we have only played well once in five games (at KC).

We absolutely played well in the opener vs. Red Bulls. Defending and countering isn't sexy, but we carried out the game plan pretty much perfectly, no denying that.

The other 3 games have been mixed. Good and bad moments in all of them.

[KurtLarSUN]

I don't know. When he's around 18 yards away and no more than 1-2 yards off the line? That's a fairly gradual angle, it shouldn't be too distorted.

Imagine trying to judge an offside call from this position. Impossible.

The AR guessed. Which is fine. Most referees guess in certain moments throughout a match.

That's why video review will be here eventually.

[habstfc]

Good pic.

In live action, I thought they blew the call, but if I had to make a call based on this pic only, I'd say that ball is out, based on where Koffie's left foot is.

Of course this pic isn't definitive because of lack of straight line perspective (parallax, etc) I agree. The ball is clearly out on this picture and the AR had a much better angle than this photo.

[vortexdr]

If we're talking dubious calls and how the Revs were robbed, this looks like a penalty to me...

http://s17.postimg.org/fjvr02lmn/penalty.png

Never.....watch the replays it's clear gio slipped on shit turf

[MightyDM]

Imagine trying to judge an offside call from this position. Impossible.

The AR guessed. Which is fine. Most referees guess in certain moments throughout a match.

That's why video review will be here eventually.

god lets hope not. It's a stalking horse for advertising breaks. Then all will be lost.

And on this play, surely the ball must be out if the players left foot is on the line and his right foot is playing the ball? Unless he was leaning at a 45 degree angle, the ball couldn't be in.

on a separate topic, Kurt do you have any observations about why Nyguen gives us such fits, or the general tactical battle with NE?

[0bl1vious]

That article says "However, the assistant referee on that side does not appear to be in any position to be able to see if the ball is over the line or not."

This is Bull shit.

http://i.imgur.com/weK1Vkj.png


I don't really like screenshots when it comes to fouls because you don't see the whole story.

But, in the case of somebody saying the AR was out of position, the above indicates that is categorically false.


I can't tell from that angle if it is out. BUT, the AR has a pretty darn good view of the line, with nobody between him and the player and the player in the air when he kicks the ball.

If an AR is "out of position" when he's two feet more forward then in line, that's a standard that is impossible to reach.


Just gonna shine in here...my opinion strictly based on what I see in the image.

You can see that the NE player's left foot is planted right on the end line, with the center of his body slightly over the line. His right foot is clearly at least 12-15 inches to the right of his left foot at the time he strikes the ball.

Clearly this is a no-goal to me. AR not "in position" because his balls of steel were clearly weighing him down too much.

Great call.

[PopePouri]

Never.....watch the replays it's clear gio slipped on shit turf

I've watched the sequence numerous times and his pivot foot was planted fine from what I see. I also think that Seba is an honest player based on his actions last year. Take that for what it is. If he slipped, he would have probably got up and kicked the post or something.

[reggie]

they played not too lose again...im sick of this i wanna save my job soccer..lets see when we play at home if he opens it up.because right now is its GIO and 9 DMs.hi BENITO.

[molenshtain]

they played not too lose again...im sick of this i wanna save my job soccer..lets see when we play at home if he opens it up.because right now is its GIO and 9 DMs.hi BENITO.
you understand that we took out a central midfielder and put in another forward for this game, right? we were over worked in midfield because Vanney opted to try and let the guys go at them for the first 25 minutes. We only started playing better once we dropped Gio back into the AM role and made it an even game in midfield.

[reggie]

No i fell asleep 20 min into the game...and the other forward is barely usl quality.so he doesnt add much offence.

[molenshtain]

there's no point anymore. That's just a ridiculous comment.

[reggie]

relax my friend...jus some fun banter:scarf:

[molenshtain]

ah, well then. Not my first time with egg on my face.

cue the obligatory commment 'the internet is a poor medium for sarcasm, banter and or nuance' etc etc etc

[notthesun]

If anyone can find video of the reverse angle of the Davies penalty shout (https://youtu.be/GI9EJf1BHgE?t=138) I'll appreciate it. I checked the MLS Live full match and the American broadcast didn't show it. TSN showed it only once but it's not in the highlight package TFC posted, they only showed the zoomed-in angle from the same side as the broadcast camera (Osorio's body blocks the ball so it looks really bad from that angle). During the live broadcast TSN showed an angle from behind that showed Davies' back and I swore while seeing it (only once) during the game that Bradley got his foot on the ball and poked it before clattering into Davies. I think the ref saw this too because you can see him immediately point to the ball after the challenge and as players go flying everywhere. I'm pretty sure it was a great desperation tackle from Bradley.

[spark]

Never.....watch the replays it's clear gio slipped on shit turf

TSN had an angle from behind the goal where it did look like Giovinco's striking foot was clipped by Koffie's leg.

[C.Ronaldo]

TSN had an angle from behind the goal where it did look like Giovinco's striking foot was clipped by Koffie's leg.

ya, it looked like his foot was planted firmly, then Koffie just touch him and it gave way. not enough for PK in my opinion

[Captain]

ya, it looked like his foot was planted firmly, then Koffie just touch him and it gave way. not enough for PK in my opinion

For me, I think Koffie's knee disturbed Gio motion kicking the ball. Not sure if that's enough for a penalty but it could be.

[C.Ronaldo]

is this the same shot that GIO was almost parallel with the ground when he took the shot?

i remember reacting to that when watching the game and thought it was a penalty. He did kind of fall over out of no where

[PAOK17]

You can't contact a player's feet/legs when they're mid-shot. Even the slightest contact, if illegal, is still a foul. The problem is, in real time, it's hard to see if contact is even made- so we think he tripped over his feet. Then we see the slow motion replay, where you can see contact, but because it has to be slowed down a lot to see, the effect of the contact looks very weak. So we then think that it's a dive or that it's not strong enough to cause someone to trip.

We need to take account both replays when making the final assessment.