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View Full Version : Diskerud voted most overrated; Altidore 2nd; Bradley 6th



QBall
03-23-2016, 09:59 AM
Take it with a grain of salt I guess:

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2829426/mix-diskerud-most-overrated-mls-player-in-player-poll

Red CB Toronto
03-23-2016, 10:10 AM
Take it with a grain of salt I guess:

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2829426/mix-diskerud-most-overrated-mls-player-in-player-poll

The guys making the big bucks will always be the most polarized.

Ultra & Proud
03-23-2016, 10:14 AM
The guys making the big bucks will always be the most polarized.
Totally. Look at the names on that list and their pay. That's what it's all about except for Diskerud. He is legit shit.

TFC/Everton
03-23-2016, 10:27 AM
I agree that Jozy is overrated. I hoped all offseason that he would be traded to the Red Bulls.

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2016, 10:49 AM
I can't say I disagree. For the amount of money they earn, they have played nowhere near that level for us.

That being said, I still think they are both worthy of DP slots, in terms of being worth more than their salary cap hits.

Scott
03-23-2016, 10:53 AM
Jozy looked out of shape last season and largely in effective later on in the season. It was said in the pre season interviews that he was in much better shape. In the short sub in SKC he looked useful. He's overpaid and slightly over rated I think. If he stays healthy and puts in a good performance in the next match I think it would do a world of good for his confidence. He needs a good start to this season or I can see his career taking a major downwards turn...

No more lazy off sides, silly fouls. Get in a good position early when the ball is in the air so you don't have to foul the defender. Knock it on to Seba or hold it up without falling over / taking a foul. That's literally all I'm asking of Jozy this season. That and knock in 10 goals of course.

We'll find out how his season is going to unfold in the next 5-10 matches.
For the player of his caliber and skill ceiling I think TFC are going to be pleasantly surprised.

molenshtain
03-23-2016, 11:05 AM
What do people expect from Bradley that he's not already doing? what else is there for him to do?

ronzilla
03-23-2016, 11:30 AM
Doesn't surprise me at all to see Jozy and Bradley on this list.

ryan
03-23-2016, 11:48 AM
What do people expect from Bradley that he's not already doing? what else is there for him to do?

Accumulate stats. Most plebs in NA can't translate skill unless there's some stat in their fantasy pool to back it up.

jabbronies
03-23-2016, 11:59 AM
Doesn't surprise me at all to see Jozy and Bradley on this list.


Bradley has played much better this season. With that being said, he was nowhere near his worth last season. He was middle of the road/average midfielder who made way too many mistakes for a player making his salary.

In a league like this, you bring in a guy on his salary - you expect him to control the midfield and be the conduit between the backline and the forwards. He did neither of those thing very well last year.

he deserves to be on this list.

molenshtain
03-23-2016, 12:10 PM
Bradley has played much better this season. With that being said, he was nowhere near his worth last season. He was middle of the road/average midfielder who made way too many mistakes for a player making his salary.

In a league like this, you bring in a guy on his salary - you expect him to control the midfield and be the conduit between the backline and the forwards. He did neither of those thing very well last year.

he deserves to be on this list.

No, Collen Warner was a middle of the road midfielder. Bradley was demonstrably better than that last season.

And the job you describe wasn't his role in the diamond, so I don't know why you would expect him to perform it. These are the unreasonable expectations and misrepresentations of Bradley's play since he got here that drives me up the wall. People want him to perform every single midfield duty, regardless of what every one else on the field is doing or what his job actually is in the lineup. He still has the highest usage rate of any player in the league, and people get mad at him because he occasionally makes a mistake. It's the equivalent of getting intensely upset when Steph Curry misses a shot, not taking note of the fact he made the previous 5.

shwade
03-23-2016, 12:15 PM
Yep...altidore making that much just to bounce between the USMNT, getting injured with the USMNT, returning to Toronto for rehab, then heading back to Jurgen while still recovering, tweaking his injury, coming back to Toronto to recover then running back to the USMNT before fully recovering. Lather, rinse, repeat.

jabbronies
03-23-2016, 12:18 PM
No, Collen Warner was a middle of the road midfielder. Bradley was demonstrably better than that last season.

And the job you describe wasn't his role in the diamond, so I don't know why you would expect him to perform it. These are the unreasonable expectations and misrepresentations of Bradley's play since he got here that drives me up the wall. People want him to perform every single midfield duty, regardless of what every one else on the field is doing or what his job actually is in the lineup. He still has the highest usage rate of any player in the league, and people get mad at him because he occasionally makes a mistake. It's the equivalent of getting intensely upset when Steph Curry misses a shot, not taking note of the fact he made the previous 5.


Can you explain what Bradley's role on this team is then.

notthesun
03-23-2016, 12:33 PM
Can you explain what Bradley's role on this team is then.

Right now? Anchoring DM that sits in front of the CBs, cleans things up and starts counter attacks with his passing range. And he's been doing it well - he's leading the team in tackles + interceptions, key passes, and is 2nd in passing percentage (among players with significant minutes) despite playing almost 10 long balls a game.

Whether this is Bradley accepting that he can't do everything in midfield, or Vanney finally sticking him to a particular task, or a bit or both... whatever it is, Bradley is doing his job well and that's a big part of why we've been so defensively solid thus far.

OgtheDim
03-23-2016, 12:55 PM
FWIW

Lalas said during the game on Sunday that Bradley told him the night before that he likes his role. i.e He knows what he is doing.

molenshtain
03-23-2016, 12:57 PM
Can you explain what Bradley's role on this team is then.

Notthesun summed up his role this year.

Last year his role was to roam the channels constantly, either harassing fullbacks or the opposing DM. when we were attacking his job was create space for the shuttlers below him and pull players away from the Seba and Jozy. With the ball his job was to hit Seba and Jozy and spring a counter-attack when the option presented itself, and to hit overlapping runners when we had settled possesion and make late runs into the box.

Asking him to be the link between midfield and defence is asking the team to literally skip three passing options, and makes him, our most advanced midfielder drop way too deep, making us unable to provide any solid penetration when in possession.

Detroit_TFC
03-23-2016, 02:25 PM
If MB and JA put this up on the bulletin board and proceed to wreck the league this season, I'll finance the gift basket to the author, Anonymous ESPN Dick Nose.

MartinUtd
03-23-2016, 02:33 PM
What do people expect from Bradley that he's not already doing? what else is there for him to do?

He could have more control on those passes over the top. Too may plays end up with a long pass out past the goal line. He either needs to halt the advance or work on those weighted balls a lot more.

OgtheDim
03-23-2016, 02:50 PM
He could have more control on those passes over the top. Too may plays end up with a long pass out past the goal line. He either needs to halt the advance or work on those weighted balls a lot more.

Are you sure you are not mixing Bradley passes up with Cheyrou?

Yohan
03-23-2016, 03:27 PM
Notthesun summed up his role this year.

Last year his role was to roam the channels constantly, either harassing fullbacks or the opposing DM. when we were attacking his job was create space for the shuttlers below him and pull players away from the Seba and Jozy. With the ball his job was to hit Seba and Jozy and spring a counter-attack when the option presented itself, and to hit overlapping runners when we had settled possesion and make late runs into the box.

Asking him to be the link between midfield and defence is asking the team to literally skip three passing options, and makes him, our most advanced midfielder drop way too deep, making us unable to provide any solid penetration when in possession.
this doesn't require paying someone 5 mil a year to do.

you can find a ball playing DM for far cheaper.

molenshtain
03-23-2016, 03:46 PM
this doesn't require paying someone 5 mil a year to do.

you can find a ball playing DM for far cheaper.

Not one nearly as good a him. He's the best in the league at his current role by a significant margin.

Yohan
03-23-2016, 04:10 PM
Not one nearly as good a him. He's the best in the league at his current role by a significant margin.
disagreed. Alonso, McCarty, Beckerman all do the job as well as him at DM

jabbronies
03-23-2016, 04:11 PM
this doesn't require paying someone 5 mil a year to do.

you can find a ball playing DM for far cheaper.


I agree with this 100%

Also - I find it hard to see him as a DM - far too often this year he has been found pretty high up the pitch for a DM.
DM shouldn't spend more than half his time in front of the rest of the midfield line.

molenshtain
03-23-2016, 04:13 PM
disagreed. Alonso, McCarty, Beckerman all do the job as well as him at DM

None of them are also their teams primary playmakers. If you want someone who can pass sideways and backwards really well, then sure, those are your guys. Bradley's skill set far exceeds those of the guys you mentioned.

molenshtain
03-23-2016, 04:15 PM
I agree with this 100%

Also - I find it hard to see him as a DM - far too often this year he has been found pretty high up the pitch for a DM.
DM shouldn't spend more than half his time in front of the rest of the midfield line.


And yet we've had a stout defense through our first three away games. Maybe that has something to do with Bradley being in a position he's very good at.

notthesun
03-23-2016, 04:55 PM
Bradley has not been up the pitch this year at all, certainly not compared to the last two years. Unless we have the ball in possession around our opponent's 18 yard box he's been firmly planted on our side of half.

Here are Bradley's heatmaps taken from Squawka.com. Brighter areas means more interaction in those areas (touches on the ball, tackles, passes, etc.). TFC's half of the field is the right side.

Vs. Red Bulls: http://i.imgur.com/8CqmSc1.png

Vs. SKC: http://i.imgur.com/7IqiXTQ.png
(http://i.imgur.com/7IqiXTQ.png)
Now compare those to our final two games last year.

Vs. MTL, end of the season: http://i.imgur.com/D5tcfwt.png

Vs. MTL, playoffs: http://i.imgur.com/pG5El9N.png

You can see he has had a much greater concentration of interactions in the defensive half this year, and his interactions are less spread out as well. He has a defined role. Look at that playoff loss to Montreal, for example - the guy was all over the field, trying to do everything (in particular seems to be trying to compensate for us having pylon Robbie Findley running down the right side).

habstfc
03-23-2016, 05:15 PM
I don`t get all the hate for Bradley or Altidore. Jozy had 13 goals last season and was in the top 5 for goals per 90 min. If he wasn`t injured so much could easily have had 17 or 18 goals. I don`t know about Diskerud but Dempsey is by far the most over rated player in my opinion.

Yohan
03-23-2016, 05:25 PM
None of them are also their teams primary playmakers. If you want someone who can pass sideways and backwards really well, then sure, those are your guys. Bradley's skill set far exceeds those of the guys you mentioned.
Bradley has not been used as a playmaker, even deep lying playmaker for TFC so far.

Playmaker implies that the offence is run through the player. TFC does not run its offence through Bradley.

molenshtain
03-23-2016, 05:30 PM
Bradley has not been used as a playmaker, even deep lying playmaker for TFC so far.

Playmaker implies that the offence is run through the player. TFC does not run its offence through Bradley.

Primary playmaker meaning primary distrubtor. He's still the guy starts every counter-attack and is the most like guy to play a ball in behind the opposing defences. I.E. primary playmaker.

bimmer
03-23-2016, 07:48 PM
I don`t get all the hate for Bradley or Altidore. Jozy had 13 goals last season and was in the top 5 for goals per 90 min. If he wasn`t injured so much could easily have had 17 or 18 goals. I don`t know about Diskerud but Dempsey is by far the most over rated player in my opinion.

Simple reason is their salaries. If Michael or Jozy were making $1M or less, they probably wouldn't be getting any hate at all. The poll is pretty flawed... they basically picked players who are overPAID (ie. overrated by a specific team's management) rather than players that are overrated in general based on their performances in MLS. Jozy especially is far from being "overrated", overpaid sure, but he gets crap from pretty much every fanbase (including our own) for being a "flash in the pan" and pretty much nobody touts him as a top striker in this league.

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2016, 08:34 PM
Valid points on both sides of the argument. That's why I qualified my opinion that they are both overpaid by stating that they are still both worthy of DP slots/salaries.

The question is, should it matter to us as supporters if they are overpaid?Their cap hits would be exactly the same if they were earning 1 million dollars a year, and thus, have absolutely no bearing on management's ability to build a team around them.

As DPs go, they are definitely among the best in MLS in terms of quality. Seba is in a class of his own.

ag futbol
03-23-2016, 09:40 PM
this doesn't require paying someone 5 mil a year to do.

you can find a ball playing DM for far cheaper.
Fully agree. This role we have him playing right now is great, but not worth 5 mil.

Last year just didn't work, stats aside. There were large caps exposed in the midfield.

ag futbol
03-23-2016, 09:48 PM
The question is, should it matter to us as supporters if they are overpaid?

Let's put it this way: if with the money we spent on Seba we got the equivalent of Clint Depsy would we be okay with it? That takes our team down several notches, easily.

Salary cap is a red herring here. We need to generate the most talent per dollar spent if we want to be the best (or among the best) teams in the league.

Onyx
03-23-2016, 10:19 PM
Let's put it this way: if with the money we spent on Seba we got the equivalent of Clint Depsy would we be okay with it? That takes our team down several notches, easily.

Salary cap is a red herring here. We need to generate the most talent per dollar spent if we want to be the best (or among the best) teams in the league.

only issue is are these guys earning the $475k in cap space they are taking up? (we shouldn't care about the other 5m in salary ... thats MLSEs problem).
Seba worth every cent
Bradley and Jozy: very debateable? largely due to MLS games missed, than performance

ag futbol
03-23-2016, 10:36 PM
I disagree. It's about efficiency, not a cap hit.

Most teams in this league now have designed players. If we do a worse job at signing ours than other teams that puts us at a disadvantage.

The fact that we spend more money just leaves us a larger margin for error, it doesn't mean we stop caring once the dollar amount is greater than the cap hit.

And if we're talking about us vs. the other top spenders, we should care about where every dollar of that money is going and how much we are getting back in return.

notthesun
03-23-2016, 11:23 PM
I disagree. It's about efficiency, not a cap hit.

Most teams in this league now have designed players. If we do a worse job at signing ours than other teams that puts us at a disadvantage.

The fact that we spend more money just leaves us a larger margin for error, it doesn't mean we stop caring once the dollar amount is greater than the cap hit.

And if we're talking about us vs. the other top spenders, we should care about where every dollar of that money is going and how much we are getting back in return.

I see what you mean, but the other side of it makes sense as well. For example, what if we were paying Giovinco $12 million a year instead of $7 million? That's less efficient, but should I care? He will still be the best player in the league, and MLSE will still continue spending money. The team isn't hurt in any way.

On the other hand, Michael Bradley is probably not a $5 million-a-year player. But we have to remember that MLS is still a relatively fledgling league, and so the more talent you want to acquire to fill that DP slot, the bigger the premium you need to spend to convince players to come over, especially if they are still in their 20s. The TFC plan, like it or not, appears to be to emulate L.A. You can either sign very good DPs for relatively cheap and win a championship like Portland, or you can pay those premiums for DPs a cut above the others and win multiple championships like the Galaxy.

So once you get into those multiple million dollar salaries and start paying those premiums, the question is whether you've signed a very good player or an excellent player. Giovinco obviously passes that test, and anyone who scoffed at his salary when he was signed has had to admit he's been worth every penny. I think Bradley has been one of the most misused TFC players ever, so the perception on him in terms of value for money isn't great at the moment, but I think he can be excellent. I look at the top defensive mids in the league, some already mentioned in this thread - Alonso, McCarty, Beckerman, throw Chara in there too - and they are all good enough to be part of a championship team no doubt, but I don't think I'd say any of them are better players than Bradley. I don't agree with the notion either that I've seen from time to time that it's too much money to spend on a DM (de Vos used to rag on TFC for this all the time and then coincidentally shut up about it since Laba moved to Vancouver), so overall I'm okay with having Bradley on his salary. Not thrilled, but okay. That just leaves Altidore. He's easily the most questionable spend of our current DPs; between a troublesome hamstring and a decent (but not $4 million worthy) first season, I think it's fair to say that's the DP slot we could be making much better use of (keeping in mind he was likely more of a convenient bit of improvisation out of the Defoe fiasco rather than a top-of-the-wishlist target).

OgtheDim
03-24-2016, 06:29 AM
disagreed. Alonso, McCarty, Beckerman all do the job as well as him at DM

No.

None of them have his range of passing, coverage of the ground and ability to see the open spaces.

Most importantly, none of them come close to Bradley in his speed of thought on the pitch.

That and people are forgetting who laid out the passes that sprung Seba in the first couple of games.Seen this before last season - we don't score and people seem to think Bradley can't pass.

jabbronies
03-24-2016, 08:28 AM
And yet we've had a stout defense through our first three away games. Maybe that has something to do with Bradley being in a position he's very good at.

As I said earlier - This year he's been doing very well and playing the way I expected him to play. More of a pacer/controller in the midfield and being that link between the Defence and the attack. if he keeps playing like this and improving - then yes he eventually shouldn't be on that list.

Fort York Redcoat
03-24-2016, 09:02 AM
this doesn't require paying someone 5 mil a year to do.

you can find a ball playing DM for far cheaper.


disagreed. Alonso, McCarty, Beckerman all do the job as well as him at DM

I won't question those players worth but I would challenge you to find someone like them and woo them here for less or even money then they are making being a keystone on teams they're all a big part of.

We didn't have Bradley for years and watch him grow into the leader he is. We had to pay up front and hope he can get the results we want.

portu
03-24-2016, 09:03 AM
Irrespective of salary I think Jozy is overrated and Bradley isn't

Areathrasher
03-24-2016, 09:08 AM
One part of this confuses me...

Who exactly overrates Jozy?

Fort York Redcoat
03-24-2016, 09:12 AM
One part of this confuses me...

Who exactly overrates Jozy?

Hahaha well said. I suppose its people that DON'T watch our team?

Areathrasher
03-24-2016, 09:23 AM
Hahaha well said. I suppose its people that DON'T watch our team?

Well his reputation was pretty low leaving Sunderland and USMNT fans have the same gripes about him that TFC fans do,so???

T-boy
03-24-2016, 09:24 AM
I wouldn't call Jozy overrated - as that would assume somebody rated him that highly in the first place. I think he's a good MLS level player - but certainly not world class or even international class. I do like watching him play, however, and I do like that he plays for us and not another MLS team.

shwade
03-24-2016, 09:52 AM
Overpaid not overrated.

OgtheDim
03-24-2016, 10:14 AM
For "over rated' insert "hyped a lot"

jloome
03-24-2016, 11:23 AM
No.

None of them have his range of passing, coverage of the ground and ability to see the open spaces.

Most importantly, none of them come close to Bradley in his speed of thought on the pitch.

That and people are forgetting who laid out the passes that sprung Seba in the first couple of games.Seen this before last season - we don't score and people seem to think Bradley can't pass.

McCarty does. He's as good a DM as Bradley; he doesn't have the all-around game though. Bradley once scored 18 in a season in the Eredivisie, which while not the best defensive league is still well more than anyone on that list would accomplish.

Beckerman is shot, it looks. His legs looked half-gone last year and they can't have gotten better. Mids burn out young from all that two-way traffic.

portu
03-24-2016, 11:27 AM
For "over rated' insert "hyped a lot"
yeah that's probably more accurate

MartinUtd
03-24-2016, 11:29 AM
Are you sure you are not mixing Bradley passes up with Cheyrou?

Nope. I've seen plenty of the bald man hoofing balls towards the goal line with too much weight for the pursuing winger to catch up with.

OgtheDim
03-24-2016, 11:43 AM
Nope. I've seen plenty of the bald man hoofing balls towards the goal line with too much weight for the pursuing winger to catch up with.

Hmmm....havn't noticed. I'll watch for that in Colorado.

MartinUtd
03-24-2016, 11:50 AM
Hmmm....havn't noticed. I'll watch for that in Colorado.

I could be over inflating the issue due to expectations and wanting better, but I've seen it a few times already this season and numerous times in 2015.

ag futbol
03-24-2016, 01:13 PM
Cheyrou's passing is exceptional. Even with the reduced mobility we are lucky to have him. On any game where we start with an attacking mindset he's absolutely key to keeping things moving.

Can only imagine how good he was back in the day. Hard to believe he was never scooped up by a mega club, not that OM is a terrible outfit by any means.

Yohan
03-24-2016, 01:18 PM
Cheyrou's passing is exceptional. Even with the reduced mobility we are lucky to have him. On any game where we start with an attacking mindset he's absolutely key to keeping things moving.

Can only imagine how good he was back in the day. Hard to believe he was never scooped up by a mega club, not that OM is a terrible outfit by any means.
He's our Pirlo, except he actually tries to defend still, even if he no longer has the legs for it.

jloome
03-24-2016, 01:26 PM
He's our Pirlo, except he actually tries to defend still, even if he no longer has the legs for it.

He was repeatedly linked with the Prem when he was younger; don't know why it never happened. I don't think he was ever very fast, so maybe that was it.

Yohan
03-24-2016, 01:39 PM
He was repeatedly linked with the Prem when he was younger; don't know why it never happened. I don't think he was ever very fast, so maybe that was it.
I can see that. Cheyrou will have to play in a 3 man midfield with someone to cover for him all the time.

portu
03-24-2016, 02:02 PM
He's our Pirlo, except he actually tries to defend still, even if he no longer has the legs for it.
I was kind of disappointed that we didnt move him in the Johnson deal and then kept Warner on the bench

trane
03-24-2016, 04:13 PM
People who overrated the MLS homegrown talent, always think that DPs are overrated, unless they preform at amazing levels. It is bullshit, Altidore is as good as it gets for a CF in this league, and Bradley is a world class CM/CDM. They are both well worth it, for the most part home grown talent is serviceable but overrated.

Bottom I do not give a shit about polls, lets get fucking results on the pitch.

Hamilton_Red
03-25-2016, 02:25 AM
Bradley for me was far from World Class last season. He had an element of a chicken without a head to his game. Trying to be a mythical "box to box" midfielder. He played like he wasn't being coached last year. So far this season he seems to have a clear water carrier DM brief and he has been playing the role a lot more effectively and we are looking a lot more solid. Btw the arrogant Cantonaesque dispersion of the DM role is poor form. It's the most under appreciated role in the game and likely the most valuable to team that want to win. I think we are set up for success finally - except in the striking department where we have no depth. Unless Jozy proves he can be fit week in and week out - we are entirely dependent on Giovinco.

portu
03-25-2016, 02:42 AM
People who overrated the MLS homegrown talent, always think that DPs are overrated, unless they preform at amazing levels. It is bullshit, Altidore is as good as it gets for a CF in this league, and Bradley is a world class CM/CDM. They are both well worth it, for the most part home grown talent is serviceable but overrated.

Bottom I do not give a shit about polls, lets get fucking results on the pitch.

As good as it gets is Keane and Villa end of.

vortexdr
03-25-2016, 08:34 AM
People who overrated the MLS homegrown talent, always think that DPs are overrated, unless they preform at amazing levels. It is bullshit, Altidore is as good as it gets for a CF in this league, and Bradley is a world class CM/CDM. They are both well worth it, for the most part home grown talent is serviceable but overrated.

Bottom I do not give a shit about polls, lets get fucking results on the pitch.

Don't think you know what World class is.....Toni Kroos is world class, Ozil is world class and Ruben Neves will turn world class. Bradley isn't even in the same universe.

Not really a surprise this....USMNT players are vastly overrated and overpaid in MLS. Is Bradley a bad footballer? No but please he is never worth a $5 million salary...Honestly having the word world class in the same sentence as Bradley a joke.

shwade
03-25-2016, 11:02 AM
Lol Bradley world class...don't even try. He has been better this year though, so far hasn't got in anyone's way. But world class? Not even close. He wouldn't be starting on the top 20 teams in the world so no. Giovinco world class? Almost.

ronzilla
03-25-2016, 11:19 AM
Tranes post are usually spot on, but I think this time it was the beer talking. :)

habstfc
03-25-2016, 01:26 PM
What exactly is "world class"? Someone being in the starting 11 regularly for a team like AS ROMA. I can see that argument. Is he one of the best 50 midfielders in the world? Maybe. One thing you can't argue is when Bradley is in top form, he's pretty dam good.

portu
03-25-2016, 01:36 PM
What exactly is "world class"? Someone being in the starting 11 regularly for a team like AS ROMA. I can see that argument. Is he one of the best 50 midfielders in the world? Maybe. One thing you can't argue is when Bradley is in top form, he's pretty dam good.

World class to me is someone you can justify having on the ballon d'or shortlist

Detroit_TFC
03-25-2016, 01:50 PM
FIFPro represents 65,000 players. Their World XI short list from 2015 has 60 or so on it, who play on 14 teams, in 8 leagues (I just eyeballed the list-may not be precise). Therefore by that definition, most division one leagues, let alone teams, around the world don't have world class players.

portu
03-25-2016, 01:53 PM
FIFPro represents 65,000 players. Their World XI short list from 2015 has 60 or so on it, who play on 14 teams, in 8 leagues (I just eyeballed the list-may not be precise). Therefore by that definition, most division one leagues, let alone teams, around the world don't have world class players.

So? World class, to me at least, is an extremely high value to give a player

vortexdr
03-29-2016, 04:24 PM
FIFPro represents 65,000 players. Their World XI short list from 2015 has 60 or so on it, who play on 14 teams, in 8 leagues (I just eyeballed the list-may not be precise). Therefore by that definition, most division one leagues, let alone teams, around the world don't have world class players.

Your point being? World class is in a level of its own. Basically a player that could walk into any of the top 20 teams in the world. Bradley simply doesn't fit the bill....Id say Bradley is a decent footballer, no more, no less...Having people say he is in the same league as a Pogba, Kross or Ozil basically shows that people in North Americans vastly overrate their average American players. Even saying that Bradley is a top 50 midfielder in the world is overrating him....

I have to ask anyone that says Bradley is world class if you watch any football other than MLS?

OgtheDim
03-29-2016, 06:09 PM
World class is not a phrase that can be applied to any current MLS player in their current form.

Bradley would start in most teams in position 5 through the bottom in the top European leagues. Good enough for me.

bgnewf
03-29-2016, 06:40 PM
There is a law of diminishing return in this calculation. The majority of players on this 'over rated' list are of course DP's. Perhaps 'over-compensated for their ability' rather than over-rated might be a way to look at this whole question. I for one get how Pirlo could be seen as over-rated (particularly in a physical/fast league like MLS) but his ability to distribute and hit his teammates today is not far off what he was doing for Juve in the UEFA Champions League final not too long ago.

Take money out of the equation and this list changes pretty significantly if you ask me.

Richard
03-29-2016, 07:00 PM
World class is not a phrase that can be applied to any current MLS player in their current form.

Bradley would start in most teams in position 5 through the bottom in the top European leagues. Good enough for me.

I would say Giovinco is nearly there, but its only been like three weeks so not many players are in form.

ag futbol
03-29-2016, 07:32 PM
What exactly is "world class"? Someone being in the starting 11 regularly for a team like AS ROMA. I can see that argument. Is he one of the best 50 midfielders in the world? Maybe. One thing you can't argue is when Bradley is in top form, he's pretty dam good.
This whole thing is an exercise in semantics. We'll spend as much time arguing what world class is as determining if Bradley meets the standard.

That said, I have to agree we are paying a bit of a premium for a USMNT captain. Bradley's impact on the team is largely conposed of things that do not show on the stat sheet, not that those aren't valuable but I tend to think much of it is replicable by a someone earning less money.

To summarize: valuable member of team. Wouldn't call his deal a money ball special by any means.

Detroit_TFC
03-30-2016, 05:18 PM
My point is world class players as a group is a small subset and not well distributed throughout world football.

The market for player wages is ridiculously imperfect. It is certainly not an index of player quality. It perhaps vaguely measures player demand but not in relation to other players. It is going to even crazier with all the money flowing into the Prem next season.