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notthesun
03-09-2016, 01:34 PM
Ratings for the opening week are out now: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report--brier-the-latest-big-ticket-sports-property-coming-up-short-153817345.html

(https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report--brier-the-latest-big-ticket-sports-property-coming-up-short-153817345.html)TFC-RBNY got 96,000 viewers on TSN. MTL-VAN had 205,000 on TSN (and you can add a bit onto that for RDS numbers which aren't out yet).

Fairly low, and in line with the U.S. numbers for opening week as well. Dropped across the board compared to last year's opening weekend, except for Univision (Gio Dos Santos effect): http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/03/09/mls-tv-viewing-audiences-decline-11-for-opening-weekend/

OgtheDim
03-09-2016, 01:49 PM
Numbers like this lead me to wonder if the CPL has a hope, given they seem to be relying heavily upon TSN to make the product viable/profitable.

Like, how many people are going to tune in to watch Hamilton play Ottawa at that level?

Onyx
03-09-2016, 02:11 PM
Numbers like this lead me to wonder if the CPL has a hope, given they seem to be relying heavily upon TSN to make the product viable/profitable.

Like, how many people are going to tune in to watch Hamilton play Ottawa at that level?

no chance CPL will be on TV. ... well maybe local rogers cable outlet.
TSN losses $$$ on MLS right now as is, and they can barely fit the weekend games on, unless they are on wednesdays.

Onyx
03-09-2016, 02:16 PM
Ratings for the opening week are out now: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report--brier-the-latest-big-ticket-sports-property-coming-up-short-153817345.html

(https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report--brier-the-latest-big-ticket-sports-property-coming-up-short-153817345.html)TFC-RBNY got 96,000 viewers on TSN. MTL-VAN had 205,000 on TSN (and you can add a bit onto that for RDS numbers which aren't out yet).

Fairly low, and in line with the U.S. numbers for opening week as well. Dropped across the board compared to last year's opening weekend, except for Univision (Gio Dos Santos effect): http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/03/09/mls-tv-viewing-audiences-decline-11-for-opening-weekend/

isn't that at really good ratings for MLS on tsn ... compared to a mid-season game

notthesun
03-09-2016, 02:18 PM
isn't that at really good ratings for MLS on tsn ... compared to a mid-season game

No use comparing season openers vs. mid-season games though.

habstfc
03-09-2016, 02:19 PM
MLS rides the wave of expansion every year pretty much. New teams breath new interest into the league which would explain the higher ratings last year, especially with the Orlando NYCFC game last year. MLS is what it is. No. 5 by a long shot in the N.A. pro sports landscape.

The numbers in Canada are determined by time slot which is why the later Vancouver - Montreal got twice the rating the TFC game received. I think with all TFC games being at night this year it should transform in to higher ratings than afternoon games in previous years. Especially if TFC has an elite team which is looking pretty good.

TFC07
03-09-2016, 02:22 PM
Ratings for the opening week are out now: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report--brier-the-latest-big-ticket-sports-property-coming-up-short-153817345.html

(https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report--brier-the-latest-big-ticket-sports-property-coming-up-short-153817345.html)TFC-RBNY got 96,000 viewers on TSN. MTL-VAN had 205,000 on TSN (and you can add a bit onto that for RDS numbers which aren't out yet).

Fairly low, and in line with the U.S. numbers for opening week as well. Dropped across the board compared to last year's opening weekend, except for Univision (Gio Dos Santos effect): http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/03/09/mls-tv-viewing-audiences-decline-11-for-opening-weekend/

Keep in mind that TFC game was only on TSN4 channel. It wasn't nationally broadcast game!

So 96,000 isn't a bad number for regional TV number.

EDIT: That being said, TV ratings are becoming less relevant these days thanks to online streaming.

CanadaLFC
03-09-2016, 02:25 PM
I am interested to see what the action plan is to get more viewers on tv. As mentioned before the night games should help a little, but you wonder if that goes up against HNIC until June-ish.

I wonder if there is a viable marketing plan in place to get more people interested. At this time, soccer is still a very niche sport in this country from a viewership perspective.

khso11
03-09-2016, 02:38 PM
Wonder what are the international numbers, heard the game was broadcasted all over Europe. We have European players like Seba, Benoit, Damien. I am sure some fans there would want to watch them play.

OgtheDim
03-09-2016, 02:44 PM
no chance CPL will be on TV. ... well maybe local rogers cable outlet.
TSN losses $$$ on MLS right now as is, and they can barely fit the weekend games on, unless they are on wednesdays.

If you parse through the CPL discussion, they are relying upon the CFL relationship with TSN to broker a deal for CPL to be on TSN. The idea is that the CPL would be treated like TSN treated the CFL back in the late 80's - bigger then it actually was and slowly build the hype train.

Onyx
03-09-2016, 03:00 PM
If you parse through the CPL discussion, they are relying upon the CFL relationship with TSN to broker a deal for CPL to be on TSN. The idea is that the CPL would be treated like TSN treated the CFL back in the late 80's - bigger then it actually was and slowly build the hype train.

isn't that what they are already trying to do with MLS .. take ratings from nothing to something that can have a sustainable model for the league/TSN.
Can't see tsn ever agreeing to this, unless they drop MLS rights. Then where do the MLS games end up. Sportsnet doesn't care, they already punted the whitecaps after getting the NHL deal and only show TFC because they are obligated by MLSE ownership

TSN is never going to drop MLS for CPL

OgtheDim
03-09-2016, 03:36 PM
....TSN is never going to drop MLS for CPL

Oh, I'm not saying TSN are dropping MLS. My understanding is CPL will be provided to TSN as part of TSN keeping the CFL happy.

mr k
03-09-2016, 03:36 PM
Keep in mind that TFC game was only on TSN4 channel. It wasn't nationally broadcast game!

So 96,000 isn't a bad number for regional TV number.

EDIT: That being said, TV ratings are becoming less relevant these days thanks to online streaming.

tfc match was on 4/5. The whitecaps match wasn't nationally broadcast either. It was on 1/3.

for a tfc opening match, it is a much lower rating but previous years was helped by playing against a cdn team. for a mid-season match, it's an okay rating but not making money for tsn.

Areathrasher
03-09-2016, 05:45 PM
Wonder what are the international numbers, heard the game was broadcasted all over Europe. We have European players like Seba, Benoit, Damien. I am sure some fans there would want to watch them play.
https://twitter.com/pkedit/status/707696174371745793

khso11
03-09-2016, 06:21 PM
https://twitter.com/pkedit/status/707696174371745793

That's not bad considering NYCFC have players like Pirlo and Villa. Curious to see the TFC numbers for Sky Sports.

Beach_Red
03-09-2016, 06:38 PM
Oh, I'm not saying TSN are dropping MLS. My understanding is CPL will be provided to TSN as part of TSN keeping the CFL happy.

It will depend if TSN needs Canadian content or not. Since the CRTC allowed companies to spread out Canadian content over networks, Bell could put CPL games on any one of their networks and use it to free up prime time for non-Canadian content, just like they do with CTV (which now has pretty much zero Canadian content in prime time). Or if Bell and Rogers are successful in lobbying the CRCT and get the Canadian content requirements lowered again (or even eliminated as they want) then they won't need a CPL at all.

Beach_Red
03-09-2016, 06:39 PM
Keep in mind that TFC game was only on TSN4 channel. It wasn't nationally broadcast game!

So 96,000 isn't a bad number for regional TV number.

EDIT: That being said, TV ratings are becoming less relevant these days thanks to online streaming.

So, is the revenue from online streaming up or down this year?

Onyx
03-09-2016, 06:45 PM
It will depend if TSN needs Canadian content or not. Since the CRTC allowed companies to spread out Canadian content over networks, Bell could put CPL games on any one of their networks and use it to free up prime time for non-Canadian content, just like they do with CTV (which now has pretty much zero Canadian content in prime time). Or if Bell and Rogers are successful in lobbying the CRCT and get the Canadian content requirements lowered again (or even eliminated as they want) then they won't need a CPL at all.
TSN (along with all sports networks) easily hit cdn content requirements. its all news and live broadcasts .. in fact TSN recently boosted its US content substantially.

Onyx
03-09-2016, 06:48 PM
So, is the revenue from online streaming up or down this year?

streaming is in those numbers if watching TSN broadcast (if it was MSG+ broadcoast not counted). My understanding is streaming numbers are still very low relative to live broadcast.

OgtheDim
03-09-2016, 07:10 PM
What Onyx said.


I think the consensus on the past threads has been streaming is small and most people streaming don't use official stuff. The amount in the US is going up because of espngo. But nobody talks numbers, just % growth.

Beach_Red
03-09-2016, 07:14 PM
TSN (along with all sports networks) easily hit cdn content requirements. its all news and live broadcasts .. in fact TSN recently boosted its US content substantially.

Okay, so they won't need any CPL games.

C.Ronaldo
03-10-2016, 10:31 AM
streaming is in those numbers if watching TSN broadcast (if it was MSG+ broadcoast not counted). My understanding is streaming numbers are still very low relative to live broadcast.

Im agreeing with you, but in todays day in age how is streaming not bigger for sports? Bogers is going to have no choice but to let go

I mean I dont know anyone under 40 that watches tv shows through cable anymore. Its 1) netflix 2) other streaming

The only thing people I know watch on cable/antenna is the news, reality tv/ food shows, and sports.

When CBC had olympic app, everyone I know watched the app, why cant other sports go that direction?

OgtheDim
03-10-2016, 11:44 AM
...When CBC had olympic app, everyone I know watched the app, why cant other sports go that direction?

The Olympics requires a host broadcaster be provided. The Olympics then sells the rights to broadcast those images within individual countries. Sports leagues do the opposite. They sell the right to broadcast and then its up to the broadcaseter to decide where to send. Sports broadcasters get their revenue from the monthly fee paid through a cable subscription - that and ad revenue. Streaming cuts out that first revenue stream.

That and cable/phone companies philosophically believe that content should be paid for.

Beach_Red
03-10-2016, 12:05 PM
The Olympics requires a host broadcaster be provided. The Olympics then sells the rights to broadcast those images within individual countries. Sports leagues do the opposite. They sell the right to broadcast and then its up to the broadcaseter to decide where to send. Sports broadcasters get their revenue from the monthly fee paid through a cable subscription - that and ad revenue. Streaming cuts out that first revenue stream.

That and cable/phone companies philosophically believe that content should be paid for.

It's going to be interesting to see how the cable/phone companies adjust in the future:

http://www.wired.com/2016/03/facebook-may-finally-way-get-live-sports-online/

C.Ronaldo
03-10-2016, 02:54 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how the cable/phone companies adjust in the future:

http://www.wired.com/2016/03/facebook-may-finally-way-get-live-sports-online/

interesting how that would work with teams owned by media corps

East York
03-12-2016, 07:51 PM
Not sure what some of you guys are smoking, but 96,000 for a season opening game is not just bad, it's SAD. Numbers that low means people just fell asleep with the tv on. That number should have been 250,000 plus

Redcoe15
03-12-2016, 08:19 PM
Not sure what some of you guys are smoking, but 96,000 for a season opening game is not just bad, it's SAD. Numbers that low means people just fell asleep with the tv on. That number should have been 250,000 plus

Perhaps. If the game was seen on the main TSN network, as the Vancouver-Montreal was, which got the numbers it did. But since it was on a channel most Canadians don't have, I'd say it wasn't too too bad, all things considered.

Onyx
03-12-2016, 08:26 PM
Perhaps. If the game was seen on the main TSN network, as the Vancouver-Montreal was, which got the numbers it did. But since it was on a channel most Canadians don't have, I'd say it wasn't too too bad, all things considered.

TFC Game was on TSN4 - its their biggest channel ... its the old the main network, the others (1,3,5) are regional feeds (west-->east).
i watched the Vancouver game on TSN1 - which is the vancouver regional feed.

TSN stopped putting MLS on all the channels a few years ago because the ratings are too low (only see wednesday or latenight games on all 4).

OgtheDim
03-12-2016, 09:21 PM
It should be pointed out that TSN has slowly been building Vancouver up as a brand. They show most games, use their top crew every game on them. Between that and Vancouver sucking less then us, not suprised they get bigger TV.

Onyx
03-12-2016, 09:44 PM
It should be pointed out that TSN has slowly been building Vancouver up as a brand. They show most games, use their top crew every game on them. Between that and Vancouver sucking less then us, not suprised they get bigger TV.

maybe their sponsorship plays a role in this ... just going out on a limb :)

mowe
03-12-2016, 10:13 PM
TFC Game was on TSN4 - its their biggest channel ... its the old the main network, the others (1,3,5) are regional feeds (west-->east).
i watched the Vancouver game on TSN1 - which is the vancouver regional feed.

TSN4 is also regional, for Ontario. The old main network you refer to split into 1/3/4/5.

OgtheDim
03-13-2016, 12:52 PM
FWIW

https://twitter.com/tphilipakos/status/708660949125881856

Philipakos is one of the foremost experts on soccer economics. Also an agent.

MLS seems to be developing a slowly gaining crowd in Europe.

Onyx
03-13-2016, 03:05 PM
TSN4 is also regional, for Ontario. The old main network you refer to split into 1/3/4/5.

here TSN4 is the old main network. TSN4 is as big as the other 3 combined in viewership

TFC07
03-13-2016, 06:17 PM
here TSN4 is the old main network. TSN4 is as big as the other 3 combined in viewership

Umm no it's not. lol

TSN4 is main channel for Ontario excluding Eastern Ontario who fall under TSN5 regional.

Putting the game on that channel compare to old TSN means less viewers since TSN broke up their main channel into regional channels like Sportsnet.

In other words, TSN4 = Sportsnet Ontario

Onyx
03-13-2016, 07:11 PM
Umm no it's not. lol

TSN4 is main channel for Ontario excluding Eastern Ontario who fall under TSN5 regional.

Putting the game on that channel compare to old TSN means less viewers since TSN broke up their main channel into regional channels like Sportsnet.

In other words, TSN4 = Sportsnet Ontario

If you go back to prior posts i already said that.
The argument was that TSN4 is tsn's largest channel by a longshot (3-4x the viewers), not TSN1 or TSN5. You will get the highest ratings on this channel, not TSN1 which is vancouver (whitecap game was on this channel). Plus you can watch all the TSN channels in HD across the country if you have a semi-decent cable package so it is national channel, this is not the case with SNO with cable providers outside the province.

TFC07
03-13-2016, 07:44 PM
If you go back to prior posts i already said that.
The argument was that TSN4 is tsn's largest channel by a longshot (3-4x the viewers), not TSN1 or TSN5. You will get the highest ratings on this channel, not TSN1 which is vancouver (whitecap game was on this channel). Plus you can watch all the TSN channels in HD across the country if you have a semi-decent cable package so it is national channel, this is not the case with SNO with cable providers outside the province.





I am with Rogers (but planning to get rid of cable soon) and I get all Sportsnet channels while don't have access to all TSN channels unless I end up upgrading my cable package which could cost almost double amount.

I am sure there's a lot of people in GTA who are similar to me.

Onyx
03-16-2016, 11:03 AM
from bad to worse: 62k for nycfc game
looks like vancouver didn't get past 100k as well


Chris Zelkovich

The Great Canadian Ratings Report: Toronto FC continues to struggle on TV

Even in a period of puzzling, and not-so-puzzling, sports television ratings drops (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report--brier-the-latest-big-ticket-sports-property-coming-up-short-153817345.html) the case of Toronto FC stands out.It's not that the Major League Soccer team has fallen from great heights -- ratings have never been very good. But on the heels of the team's first playoff appearance last season there are renewed hopes for more success this year both on the pitch and on the screen.
So far, the numbers are simply awful.
Not only has the team's television audience failed to grow, it appears to be regressing -- and badly.
A victory over the New York Red Bulls in the season opener attracted an average audience of only 97,000 to TSN. Proving that it wasn't TSN's fault, TFC's second game against New York City FC drew a mere 62,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.
Few sports outside of weekday afternoon lumberjack competitions do worse than that.
Those ratings are substantially less than even the most marginal sports. The world short-track speed skating championships averaged 97,000 on CBC Sunday. The Canadian cross-country ski tour lured an average of 89,000 to their couches that day.
While MLS ratings have never been strong, Toronto FC appears to be the dead weight that's dragging things down for the league. The season opener between Montreal and Vancouver, for example, averaged 205,000 viewers -- a respectable if not spectacular number. TFC, meanwhile, hasn't cracked TV's version of the Mendoza Line (http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Mendoza_Line) this season.

OgtheDim
03-16-2016, 11:32 AM
Slight point of order on that: ANYTHING on CBC gets a certain number of viewers just because of its reach and the fact that a good chunk of the country has no other options for TV. That having been said, 62K is niche. Which raises the point, anybody got regional numbers for the Chicago vs NYCFC game? or LAG games? Would be good to see soccer to soccer compairisons. IIRC, soccer on TSN and Sporstne is pretty bad unless its a major competition (Euro's, World Cups)

notthesun
03-16-2016, 12:18 PM
As it turns out, that number is pretty much on par with what we saw last year. Last year (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--mls-not-scoring-on-television-132357891.html) TFC had a bigger debut (353k) as they were playing the Whitecaps, so no surprise there. But the 2nd game of the season last year is pretty much a perfect comparison: vs. an American club and on a secondary national feed (TSN2 instead of this year with Sportsnet ONE). TFC drew only 58k for that game vs. Columbus last year, so 62k shouldn't be a surprise, it's actually slightly better. Still a terrible number overall of course.

robotfighter
03-16-2016, 12:23 PM
Nobody actually believes these numbers do they?

Is anyone here a Numeris household? Does anyone here know any Numeris households?

Probably not.

This is because in our country of 36 million, there are only about 5,000 of them. That equates to 0.03% of the population determining what we watch as a whole. Perhaps fine for measuring the audience of network television 40 years ago, but not much use in our multi-channel, multi-platform world of today.

Furthermore, in the Toronto CMA, there are less than 1,000 Numeris households. Hmmm, 6.1 million people (often considered the most diverse population on the planet) represented by 1,000 television sets. There are more Numeris households in Western Canada than in Toronto. They also skew older and less diverse than the population of Toronto or any of Canada's other largest cities. I challenge Numeris to tell us how many recent immigrants, visible minorities, young people participate in these surveys? How many urban hipsters who can pronounce Lionel properly?

TV ratings tell us what older, whiter, more rural demographics do on the weekend instead of, well...a life. Western Canadian farmers love curling and NCIS. The cute half South Asian half Norwegian hairdresser watches Dr. Horribles Sing-a-Long Blog on a Nintendo.

Forget about the TV ratings. The reason...MLS, soccer in general, basketball, and other more global sports remain and will remain on television and only grow in importance because they are important. Go to any local school in Pickering, Toronto, or Oakville and ask around. The Old Canada is dying and being replaced. If you believe these numbers you are being deceived. They are the rebel flag for the sports media in this country who need to protect their jobs.

TV ratings serve the status quo. TFC fans, you are not that.

Beach_Red
03-16-2016, 12:49 PM
^ unfortunately tv ratings still affect revenue. People talking about the game doesn't pay any salaries.

But I don't think TFC is "dead weight," there's just More competition for fans in Toronto than Montreal or Vancouver and a big factor to getting interest in Toronto is the strength of the league, which is probably more important than the strength of the team. As interest in MLS rises across the US, it will rise in Toronto as well.

Areathrasher
03-16-2016, 12:52 PM
Whatever why you slice it's a pretty shit number.

However how many people watched it on MLS Live because they don't have Sportsnet One? I did, had it been on Sportsnet Ontario i'd have watched it on that.

TFC07
03-16-2016, 12:55 PM
Nobody actually believes these numbers do they?

Is anyone here a Numeris household? Does anyone here know any Numeris households?

Probably not.

This is because in our country of 36 million, there are only about 5,000 of them. That equates to 0.03% of the population determining what we watch as a whole. Perhaps fine for measuring the audience of network television 40 years ago, but not much use in our multi-channel, multi-platform world of today.

Furthermore, in the Toronto CMA, there are less than 1,000 Numeris households. Hmmm, 6.1 million people (often considered the most diverse population on the planet) represented by 1,000 television sets. There are more Numeris households in Western Canada than in Toronto. They also skew older and less diverse than the population of Toronto or any of Canada's other largest cities. I challenge Numeris to tell us how many recent immigrants, visible minorities, young people participate in these surveys? How many urban hipsters who can pronounce Lionel properly?

TV ratings tell us what older, whiter, more rural demographics do on the weekend instead of, well...a life. Western Canadian farmers love curling and NCIS. The cute half South Asian half Norwegian hairdresser watches Dr. Horribles Sing-a-Long Blog on a Nintendo.

Forget about the TV ratings. The reason...MLS, soccer in general, basketball, and other more global sports remain and will remain on television and only grow in importance because they are important. Go to any local school in Pickering, Toronto, or Oakville and ask around. The Old Canada is dying and being replaced. If you believe these numbers you are being deceived. They are the rebel flag for the sports media in this country who need to protect their jobs.

TV ratings serve the status quo. TFC fans, you are not that.

Great first post.

Don't forget cord cutters that are growing in numbers these days. So these TV numbers are becoming less relevant and continue to die a slow death (like landline phone).

TFC07
03-16-2016, 12:57 PM
Whatever why you slice it's a pretty shit number.

However how many people watched it on MLS Live because they don't have Sportsnet One? I did, had it been on Sportsnet Ontario i'd have watched it on that.

But aren't TFC games blackout for those living in GTA? I personally don't see point getting MLS live if I can't watch TFC games.

robotfighter
03-16-2016, 01:03 PM
TV ratings are a currency for advertisers for sure, how much they affect revenue in this instance is debatable.

Look at the article above. Short track speed skating and cross country skiing are clearly more popular in Canada than MLS. More people watch them. So it must be fact. If you go to the pub, try putting on TFC when Anton Ohno is skating in his skivvies. If I was the maker of an energy drink, I suppose I should put my advertising and sponsorship dollars into those sports over Toronto FC. BMO bibs for everyone in Canmore?

Those sports pretending to be on par with MLS don't get that revenue because no one talks about them and people with money know tv ratings are a farce.

OgtheDim
03-16-2016, 01:04 PM
But aren't TFC games blackout for those living in GTA? I personally don't see point getting MLS live if I can't watch TFC games.


I get it to watch the whole of the league -gotta know what we are trying to beat.


***********

Bit of a twitter back and forth going on between Larson and Molinaro on this, if anybody is on twitter. Molinaro's point is the # is bad, Larson's point is the comparison to other sports means little.

Beach_Red
03-16-2016, 01:07 PM
I get it to watch the whole of the league -gotta know what we are trying to beat.


***********

Bit of a twitter back and forth going on between Larson and Molinaro on this, if anybody is on twitter. Molinaro's point is the # is bad, Larson's point is the comparison to other sports means little.

Can they both be right?

And it would be great of there were other options for MLS Live - one game at a time purchase, just TFC games, things like that.

Areathrasher
03-16-2016, 01:14 PM
But aren't TFC games blackout for those living in GTA? I personally don't see point getting MLS live if I can't watch TFC games.

All Sportsnet games will be on MLS Live plus ones that aren't nationally broadcast on TSN.

Here is the blackout list



Match
Blackout


Sunday, Mar 6 - 1:30 PM ET vs NY Red Bulls
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Sunday, Mar 13 - 5:00 PM ET vs NYCFC
No local blackout


Sunday, Mar 20 - 7:00 PM ET vs Sporting KC
No local blackout


Saturday, Apr 2 - 8:00 PM ET vs Colorado
No local blackout


Saturday, Apr 9 - 4:00 PM ET vs New England
No local blackout


Saturday, Apr 16 - 5:00 PM ET vs D.C. United
No local blackout


Saturday, Apr 23 - 4:00 PM ET vs Montreal
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Sunday, May 1 - 3:30 PM ET vs Portland
Canada: Watch on RDS


Saturday, May 7 - 7:30 PM ET vs FC Dallas
Canada: Watch on TSN


Saturday, May 14 - 7:30 PM ET vs Vancouver
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Wednesday, May 18 - 7:00 PM ET vs NYCFC
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Saturday, May 21 - 7:30 PM ET vs Columbus
No local blackout


Saturday, May 28 - 7:00 PM ET vs NY Red Bulls
No local blackout


Saturday, Jun 18 - 7:30 PM ET vs LA Galaxy
No local blackout


Saturday, Jun 25 - 7:30 PM ET vs Orlando
No local blackout


Saturday, Jul 2 - 7:30 PM ET vs Seattle
No local blackout


Saturday, Jul 9 - 7:30 PM ET vs Chicago
No local blackout


Wednesday, Jul 13 - 7:30 PM ET vs Columbus
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Saturday, Jul 16 - 10:30 PM ET vs San Jose
No local blackout


Saturday, Jul 23 - 7:30 PM ET vs D.C. United
No local blackout


Sunday, Jul 31 - 7:00 PM ET vs Columbus
No local blackout


Wednesday, Aug 3 - 7:00 PM ET vs Real Salt Lake
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Saturday, Aug 6 - 7:30 PM ET vs New England
No local blackout


Saturday, Aug 13 - 9:00 PM ET vs Houston
No local blackout


Saturday, Aug 20 - 7:00 PM ET vs Philadelphia
No local blackout


Wednesday, Aug 24 - 7:30 PM ET vs Orlando
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Saturday, Aug 27 - 7:30 PM ET vs Montreal
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Saturday, Sep 10 - 8:30 PM ET vs Chicago
No local blackout


Sunday, Sep 18 - 7:00 PM ET vs NY Red Bulls
No local blackout


Saturday, Sep 24 - 5:00 PM ET vs Philadelphia
No local blackout


Wednesday, Sep 28 - 7:30 PM ET vs Orlando
Canada: Watch on TSN


Saturday, Oct 1 - 7:30 PM ET vs D.C. United
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Sunday, Oct 16 - 5:00 PM ET vs Montreal
Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS


Sunday, Oct 23 - 4:00 PM ET vs Chicago
Canada: Watch on TSN

Beach_Red
03-16-2016, 01:16 PM
TV ratings are a currency for advertisers for sure, how much they affect revenue in this instance is debatable.

Look at the article above. Short track speed skating and cross country skiing are clearly more popular in Canada than MLS. More people watch them. So it must be fact. If you go to the pub, try putting on TFC when Anton Ohno is skating in his skivvies. If I was the maker of an energy drink, I suppose I should put my advertising and sponsorship dollars into those sports over Toronto FC. BMO bibs for everyone in Canmore?

Those sports pretending to be on par with MLS don't get that revenue because no one talks about them and people with money know tv ratings are a farce.

Oh, I agree, the TV ratings numbers are almost useless. But they are the only number we have to discuss because we'll never know how much revenue the games are generating. I don't know how those numbers - or what numbers - are used to determine ad prices. I imagine there's a lot of negotiating. But I do hope the ratings - or whatever numbers are used - increase because gate revenue alone won't make the league enough money to pay for the kind of players it needs.

Onyx
03-16-2016, 01:46 PM
There is almost no revenue generated from MLS games -- ratings are poor and there are no ads except at halftime and pregame. Just thank god everyday that someone at TSN cares about futbol.

Only growth in TV revenue will be based on USMNT ratings and MLS share of USMNT rights thru SUM ... but won't change in near future .. 6yr to go on current deal

SoccMan2
03-16-2016, 01:55 PM
Wow so I guess TFC with these numbers if it continues will be on the verge of folding, we should all be alarmed according to this older geezer Chris Zelkovich!

vortexdr
03-16-2016, 02:00 PM
Question is how do for instance EPL games compare to TFC games when they are broadcast on Sportsnet and TSN. Same with bundesliga when those were being shown on channels other than Sportsnet World.

Deltron
03-16-2016, 02:11 PM
Also, how does Canada's MNT compare ratings wise?

robotfighter
03-16-2016, 02:12 PM
Wow so I guess TFC with these numbers if it continues will be on the verge of folding, we should all be alarmed according to this older geezer Chris Zelkovich!

Or...20 Red Patch Boys can become Numeris households. These 20 Numeris households watching a TFC match would equal 144,000 people.

We would be equals of World Cup Skiing and safe from relocation to Memphis.

robotfighter
03-16-2016, 02:20 PM
Chris Zelkovich is the epitome of the old guard.

He treats farcical tv numbers as some sort of cultural gospel and he does this because they are the only gig he really has.

Thus, the Brier is his Gettysburg.

In reality, and far more factual, is me saying that only 4% of the Canadian population watches Hockey Night in Canada on a regular basis and thus, hockey is overblown as our cultural signifier.

Onyx
03-16-2016, 02:32 PM
Also, how does Canada's MNT compare ratings wise?


we will find out in a couple weeks after mexico game

Beach_Red
03-16-2016, 02:35 PM
Chris Zelkovich is the epitome of the old guard.

He treats farcical tv numbers as some sort of cultural gospel and he does this because they are the only gig he really has.

Thus, the Brier is his Gettysburg.

In reality, and far more factual, is me saying that only 4% of the Canadian population watches Hockey Night in Canada on a regular basis and thus, hockey is overblown as our cultural signifier.

This is true. But because the country is now too diverse to have a dominant cultural signifier and advertisers are lazy they will continue to use hockey.

As for MLS tv ratings, they won't really matter until expansion is finished. When the owners stop getting franchise fee money every other revenue source will become more important.

robotfighter
03-16-2016, 03:04 PM
You're right Beach_Red. Furthermore, hockey is a proven, reliable moneymaker (or was) that keeps everyone employed (or did) so why would they change it or risk losing their share with metrosexual soccer players?

The most frustrating thing in local sports media is not television ratings, it's coverage. It's listening to hosers on the Fan590 say they don't talk TFC (or Raptors, or whatever) because the audience doesn't ask for it. Well...the audience doesn't ask for it because you don't talk about it, and thus, they have moved on to other places to get their fix. If I only sell apples then I don't expect many orange seekers at my fruit stand. I do however tell them communist Orange-lovers we don't sell oranges and they should just buy apples.

It's amazing that instead of everyone just watching hockey we have soccer, cricket, rugby, basketball fans taking over the Internet in search of their thing.

TFC is a bother. Players are pansies. Bob Mackenzie has never heard of Messi. Seba is Pinocchio. Duane Ford needs to be at the Winnipeg Holiday Inn Room 413 to cover the CFL draft and you want to talk Vanney's formations?

Time is the only cure. There was a time the Raptors got 75,000 each night on tv. Where players we're sissies and Tie Domi thought he could take Charles Oakley. 25 years ago we had the CSL and North York Rockets. 25 years from now will be unrecognizable.

OgtheDim
03-16-2016, 03:07 PM
Every year this discussion occurs.

Ratings low

Is it really low?

Well, ratings don't mean much anymore.

And, Zelcovich doesn't really matter anyways (I think I played that role 2 years ago)


Next step should be actual marketing buying types to come in here and point out reality.

Beach_Red
03-16-2016, 03:22 PM
You're right Beach_Red. Furthermore, hockey is a proven, reliable moneymaker (or was) that keeps everyone employed (or did) so why would they change it or risk losing their share with metrosexual soccer players?

The most frustrating thing in local sports media is not television ratings, it's coverage. It's listening to hosers on the Fan590 say they don't talk TFC (or Raptors, or whatever) because the audience doesn't ask for it. Well...the audience doesn't ask for it because you don't talk about it, and thus, they have moved on to other places to get their fix. If I only sell apples then I don't expect many orange seekers at my fruit stand. I do however tell them communist Orange-lovers we don't sell oranges and they should just buy apples.

It's amazing that instead of everyone just watching hockey we have soccer, cricket, rugby, basketball fans taking over the Internet in search of their thing.

TFC is a bother. Players are pansies. Bob Mackenzie has never heard of Messi. Seba is Pinocchio. Duane Ford needs to be at the Winnipeg Holiday Inn Room 413 to cover the CFL draft and you want to talk Vanney's formations?

Time is the only cure. There was a time the Raptors got 75,000 each night on tv. Where players we're sissies and Tie Domi thought he could take Charles Oakley. 25 years ago we had the CSL and North York Rockets. 25 years from now will be unrecognizable.

We also had NASL. Change is inevitable but MLS is an American league and what happens there will determine what happens to TFC. People always come in here to tell us how successful the Blizzard were in Toronto but it doesn't matter if the rest of the league doesn't succeed. I suspect you are right that in 25 years we will be unrecognizable but it's still difficult to predict. Soccer as a spectator sport in the USA may need to be a lot more popular at he NCAA and even high school level to translate into the professional league being a big spectator sport.

DinamoTFC
03-16-2016, 04:32 PM
Great first post.

Don't forget cord cutters that are growing in numbers these days. So these TV numbers are becoming less relevant and continue to die a slow death (like landline phone).

I'm one of them. I no longer have cable and I stream sports now on android/internet. Bit of an adjustment but not like I was getting much value for the amount I spent on cable.

ensco
03-16-2016, 07:13 PM
Every year this discussion occurs.

Ratings low

Is it really low?

Well, ratings don't mean much anymore.

And, Zelcovich doesn't really matter anyways (I think I played that role 2 years ago)


Next step should be actual marketing buying types to come in here and point out reality.

Can't be bothered. Plus TFC, as a brand, has pretty specific, negative issues.

I agree that this could be different given lots of time, say 10 years.

btw the cord cutting discussion is a waste of time, it's 5% of viewership on ESPN. Not that the Canadian networks will ever do us the courtesy of disclosing it.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/thegoalkeeper/ESPN-takes-long-term-view-amid-fall-in-MLS-Cup-final-TV-viewership.html

SoccMan2
03-16-2016, 08:31 PM
You know back in the old NASL days the media would tell us they are not covering the league because apart from very few teams most of the teams struggled to get 5000 to games, now when many teams are getting close to capacity attendance the media is not covering the league much because of TV ratings, so if TV ratings were to go up what the fuck will be their excuse then !

OgtheDim
03-16-2016, 08:49 PM
You know back in the old NASL days the media would tell us they are not covering the league because apart from very few teams most of the teams struggled to get 5000 to games, now when many teams are getting close to capacity attendance the media is not covering the league much because of TV ratings, so if TV ratings were to go up what the fuck will be their excuse then !

Truth be known, TFC is covered very well, as is the Impact. And if you look around, there are usually at least 2 beat reporters for every MLS team, except in the small markets were there is only 2 -3 media outlets.

The ratings are not based on a lack of media coverage. TFC has just been so bad for so long with no memory of good times that there has been no developed base of support.

Look at the thread in here on the CCL. SOOO many of us really got hooked on this team during that period of what really was small time success. But we got hooked on going to games. What needs to occur for TFC ratings to head up is

a) a consistent place to find games (that's why the Caps do OK)

b) a consistent successful product

c) a story that captures the imagination of the town

d) time....lots and lots of time.


We'll see. I think the growth in TFC will be found among people who go to games, which is why the evening home games is a good idea. From there, eventually, there will be tv watching growth. Now, if we somehow got jettisoned by Bogers and stuck with ownership that didn't want to fill media space, maybe then we'd have problems getting on TV. But, I can't see that happening. I still maintain that in 15 years, this team is going to be a HUGE at the stadium experience akin to what happens in Seattle and Orlando right now in terms of numbers. That will also draw eyeballs.

Until then, not worried about numbers.

Bobo
03-16-2016, 11:25 PM
To be honest, my immediate concern lies with the atmosphere inside of the stadium, not TV numbers. Supporter culture has dwindled dramatically since the good ol' days of our early gong shows. Casuals have taken the south and won't be leaving anytime soon so there's no easy fix, even if the SGs step their game up this season. I really hope that this roof actually does something.

Fort York Redcoat
03-17-2016, 07:18 AM
To be honest, my immediate concern lies with the atmosphere inside of the stadium, not TV numbers. Supporter culture has dwindled dramatically since the good ol' days of our early gong shows. Casuals have taken the south and won't be leaving anytime soon so there's no easy fix, even if the SGs step their game up this season. I really hope that this roof actually does something.

lol funny choice of words since we got an actual gong into Saputo just last season. Dwindled was years ago. Support has changed. But what it has to do with TV I don't know. People don't watch on tv for the supporters. I hope.


Not that ratings really concern me.

TFC/Everton
03-17-2016, 08:53 AM
Ratings will come with time and once we are a winning team.

Remember last year's playoff game was the highest rated MLS game in Canadian history. We just need to win the whole fucking thing. Then they will respect us.

Auzzy
03-17-2016, 10:47 AM
Ratings will come with time and once we are a winning team.

Remember last year's playoff game was the highest rated MLS game in Canadian history. We just need to win the whole fucking thing. Then they will respect us.

Yes very good point. And considering what a disaster that single playoff game was for TFC, it renewed the PTSD or derision amongst potential TFC supporters/viewers. TFC needs some sustained success to overcome that.

ronzilla
03-17-2016, 10:54 AM
I hope the jays have a quiet year.

TFC/Everton
03-17-2016, 10:57 AM
Yes very good point. And considering what a disaster that single playoff game was for TFC, it renewed the PTSD or derision amongst potential TFC supporters/viewers. TFC needs some sustained success to overcome that.

100% right. Had TFC gone to the Eastern Conference Finals or MLS Cup, the City would have gotten behind them. Maybe not to the extend of the Bluejays, but still.

This city loves a winner. Lets give them one!

Pookie
03-19-2016, 07:48 AM
Respectfully, interesting theories.

I don't think cord cutting explains it away. After all, Vancouver out draws TFC all the time. The Jays tv numbers shot through the roof last fall, i presume people under 40 were watching.

TFC has drawn over 300k for openers in the past. The difference? Hype. Most were early in their franchise and others were fueled by the hype of the bloody big deal.

This year? Just a solid looking team that is chasing not being in the bottom 4. Seasoned mls fans have been conditioned to believe that the regular season, though important for seeding, really is a step up from exhibition.

Lots of games to be played and then the real season supposedly starts.

Sort of a meh concept that meets a meh reaction from the general public.

Not at all talking hard core fans and supporters. More a commentary on where the 100k+ missing fans are.

Oldtimer
03-19-2016, 10:52 AM
Ratings will come with time and once we are a winning team.

Remember last year's playoff game was the highest rated MLS game in Canadian history. We just need to win the whole fucking thing. Then they will respect us.

Totally correct. You can look at the Jays to see what happens to a good team.

mr k
03-19-2016, 01:04 PM
Forget about the Jays. TFC needs first be the top rated football on tv. Unlike the Jays, TFC faces competition from 2 other MLS teams. Plus, the most watched football in Canada is EPL. And if you include national team matches, the women are the most watched football in Canada. Next Friday's men's qualifier will likely get over 300k.

This is the same situation in the US. Most watched football on tv is MX, then la Liga and then EPL. Add in the national team tv ratings for US and Mexico, MLS has quite a few rungs to climb within the tiers of its own sport.

Pookie
03-19-2016, 01:54 PM
Ratings will come with time and once we are a winning team.

Remember last year's playoff game was the highest rated MLS game in Canadian history. We just need to win the whole fucking thing. Then they will respect us.

I think part of the reason for the ratings in that game is explained when you look at the numbers for Van-Mtl last week.

2 Canadian teams on a Canadian network.

Fans of TFC + Fans of Impact (Drogba) = combined high ratings.

When Toronto plays Mtl and Van this year, they should hit 200k based on the two combined fan bases.

Onyx
03-19-2016, 03:29 PM
Respectfully, interesting theories.

I don't think cord cutting explains it away. After all, Vancouver out draws TFC all the time. The Jays tv numbers shot through the roof last fall, i presume people under 40 were watching.

TFC has drawn over 300k for openers in the past. The difference? Hype. Most were early in their franchise and others were fueled by the hype of the bloody big deal.

This year? Just a solid looking team that is chasing not being in the bottom 4. Seasoned mls fans have been conditioned to believe that the regular season, though important for seeding, really is a step up from exhibition.

Lots of games to be played and then the real season supposedly starts.

Sort of a meh concept that meets a meh reaction from the general public.

Not at all talking hard core fans and supporters. More a commentary on where the 100k+ missing fans are.


Big fan interest in DP type hype signings is only one year, then they are just another player on the team to watch. You have seen that in the early ratings in the first defoe and first seba year.
If MLSE was using DP signings to increase interest, they might as well ladder the DP signings to one a year (ie. bring a new one every year and sign them to 3-year deals).
Of course, thats just the TL marketing/glitz and driving fan interest aspect, not the overall club level player development, quality scouting and decision making, and in the end winning product that people want here.

notthesun
03-23-2016, 11:35 AM
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--hockey-still-rules-tv-land--but-the-empire-is-shrinking-213612544.html

TFC-SKC number not mentioned, nor did it crack the top 30.

Onyx
03-31-2016, 03:53 PM
canada v mexico at bc place only got 142,000 viewers on friday

reggie
03-31-2016, 04:07 PM
the ratings system is bullshit...there is no way they only got 142 k for that game with all the hype.

Ruffian
04-01-2016, 08:43 AM
Sportsnet NOW just released a streaming service without the need for cable. I assume they will be able to report on streaming viewers for the TFC games available on this service and will be able to get better details on some of the viewers that go this route instead of the grey area streams they accessed before.

Pint
04-01-2016, 09:03 AM
Sportsnet NOW just released a streaming service without the need for cable. I assume they will be able to report on streaming viewers for the TFC games available on this service and will be able to get better details on some of the viewers that go this route instead of the grey area streams they accessed before.

$25 without World seams a little steep, the adoption rate of a service like this will take some time especially at that price point.

TFC07
04-01-2016, 09:23 AM
Sportsnet NOW just released a streaming service without the need for cable. I assume they will be able to report on streaming viewers for the TFC games available on this service and will be able to get better details on some of the viewers that go this route instead of the grey area streams they accessed before.

I could get all channels I want for $15 per month. I am sure plenty of people can find similar deals out there, so I don't understand why Rogers want offer this service for $25 per month? At most, they should have price it at $10 per month. Don't get me wrong, it's nice Rogers is finally offering online service without being a cable subscriber, but they're asking too much money for little content (compare to other online services).

OgtheDim
04-01-2016, 10:47 AM
$25 without World seams a little steep, the adoption rate of a service like this will take some time especially at that price point.

Rogers always overvalues their products.

Facebook is looking to make a deal with the NFL - that's where the real change is going to come in. The NFL isn't stupid - they know that streaming supported through ads is the future. I suspect Netflix will be coming in with bids on sports soon.

Pint
04-01-2016, 11:02 AM
Rogers always overvalues their products.

Facebook is looking to make a deal with the NFL - that's where the real change is going to come in. The NFL isn't stupid - they know that streaming supported through ads is the future. I suspect Netflix will be coming in with bids on sports soon.

Netflix may have the Portuguese language copa coverage if i remember correctly. The tough part for Rogers may be the ad contracts, if they can sell traditional and digital program ads separately then they should be able to reduce the price but if all they are doing is taking a feed and putting it online it would be tougher for new ad revenue.

C.Ronaldo
04-01-2016, 11:55 AM
Netflix may have the Portuguese language copa coverage if i remember correctly. The tough part for Rogers may be the ad contracts, if they can sell traditional and digital program ads separately then they should be able to reduce the price but if all they are doing is taking a feed and putting it online it would be tougher for new ad revenue.

really?

im assuming that will only work for south American Netflix users.

Pint
04-01-2016, 12:00 PM
really?

im assuming that will only work for south American Netflix users.

IDK I saw it on twitter but it could just be a rumor.

From a quick search nothing appears to be finalized with netflix.

OgtheDim
04-01-2016, 12:15 PM
For those wondering about the Facebook thing, here's the Wired article. (http://www.wired.com/2016/03/facebook-may-finally-way-get-live-sports-online/)

C.Ronaldo
04-01-2016, 01:20 PM
For those wondering about the Facebook thing, here's the Wired article. (http://www.wired.com/2016/03/facebook-may-finally-way-get-live-sports-online/)

I don't know if this whole internet thing will ever take off. I mean I have 12 channels and this already
http://jimcofer.com/personal/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/JerroldRemoteControl.jpg

bgnewf
04-01-2016, 01:39 PM
The Argonauts get decent TV ratings and can't draw flies most of the time. TFC gets good gate numbers (relatively speaking) and is a relatively poor draw on television to date.

The reasons are obvious:

Ten seasons of relative suck-i-ness have not created (at least not yet) a culture of winning that can be leveraged to build a TV audience over the medium to long term.

Rogers and TSN have done little relative to what TSN for example has done for the CFL when it comes to making TFC games appointment television. Different bingo callers, different analysts, DIFFERENT CHANNELS and DIFFERENT KICKOFF TIMES never help either.

TSN to their credit wrote the book on how to take a moribund sports property (and the CFL fit that back in the day - due respect to them) and INVESTING in it to grow the property. Compare the hype they offer up for a CFL match versus the sixty seconds they come to air before kickoff of a TFC match and you will understand. I get that it costs money and resources to build a property up but in TFC's case that is whats needed.

Hell MLSE did a creditable job of a pre game show on GOL TV back in the day. What they are doing with ALL FOR ONE is excellent. Perhaps MLSE could go to Rogers and TSN and offer up a MLSE produced pre-game package that could (on the cheap) allow the broadcasters to start laying the groundwork to do whats needed to grow these numbers.

Cas87
04-01-2016, 02:16 PM
^^ the one thing that may help this year is the majority of our home games are starting at 7/7:30pm (with a few exceptions here and there).

That should help with the appointment part of appointment television.

OgtheDim
04-01-2016, 02:18 PM
There was something in the Finding Toronto podcast that I found enlightening, between the usual jocularity about pies and the "they do that?" fun and the Northern British humour.

They were commenting on the ratings issue. They indicated that it takes generations to develop passion for a team. Expecting people to take up a team that has only been around 10 years is too much. People have to go with their parents to a game, then they get the passion and pass it on.

I would point out also that MLS has only been around for 20 years. All the major sports events that people go gagga over in the US have been around for over 40 years. Nascar, College hoops, College ball, NFL, MLB, NBA. Heck, people in the US now have over 20 years of watching the World Cups (mens and womens) and enjoy that in droves.

Up here, we've got the NHL and the CFL and the Jays and now the Raptors (although only really starting the last 2 seasons) and freaking curling, which has been around for over 50 years on TV (note - my family played the game, I played it in high school and if I still had cable, I'd probably watch the Brier and the Scotties and the World Championships).

If your sports product is good, you have a chance to build ratings. But it takes decades. I think both TSN and Sportsnet see that. But, until there are solid numbers somewhere, there will be no big investment.


As for the CFL investment by TSN, don't forget that the Grey Cup always got HUGE numbers and was on both CBC and CTV at the same time. There was a base to work towards. MLS doesn't have that base. Glad its growing for the Whitecaps as anything that grows the game in Canada is a good thing.

Beach_Red
04-01-2016, 03:40 PM
^ Yes, this is true, and also don't forget that TSN was pretty much the only sports channel when it took on the CFL and that league gave them ratings in 8 (and sometimes 9) markets. So it isn't really a model that can work today.

But as you say, give it time and it will happen.

Redcoe15
04-01-2016, 06:20 PM
I don't know if this whole internet thing will ever take off. I mean I have 12 channels and this already
http://jimcofer.com/personal/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/JerroldRemoteControl.jpg

Mehhhhhh-Mor-EEEEEs. MehhHehHehHehhh-Mor-EEEEEs.

OgtheDim
04-05-2016, 06:24 AM
Twitter

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-05/twitter-said-to-win-nfl-deal-for-thursday-night-streaming-rights

mr k
04-08-2016, 12:32 PM
Updated sports survey out shows interest in baseball has increased from 35% to 49% but only 25% of Canadians follow the sport which is unchanged YoY and runs against Rogers claim that the Jays are 'Canada’s Team'.

The Raptors have seen their following in Toronto drop from 29 to 28%. Nationally, the interest is static at 12%.

Interest in the CFL has dropped from 24 to 22%. NFL's is at 21% which dropped by 1% YoY.

People following the NHL closely to very closely has dropped from 46% to 40%. Biggest drops were in Montreal & Vancity.

Interest in the MLS remains at the 2013 level of 9%. Whitecaps are drawing the most interest at 18% while Toronto and Montreal have a following of 13%.



https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/interest-in-nhl-wanes-while-blue-jays-creating-new-followers--survey-shows-154459368.html

OgtheDim
04-08-2016, 01:15 PM
That's the Bibby survey. His methodology has been questioned.

mr k
04-08-2016, 01:25 PM
By whom? Arm chair statisticians who can't count to 10? Or the ones who can't understand that polling 1500 people is more than sufficient given the error rate won't decrease meaningfully even if it was 10k. I'll give my 95% degree of confidence level to a prof vs the unwashed masses.

OgtheDim
04-08-2016, 01:44 PM
By whom? Arm chair statisticians who can't count to 10? Or the ones who can't understand that polling 1500 people is more than sufficient given the error rate won't decrease meaningfully even if it was 10k. I'll give my 95% degree of confidence level to a prof vs the unwashed masses.


Its possible to question polls based on the methods used. Or on who has paid for polls in the past.

Bibby has ties to the CFL.

Onyx
04-08-2016, 02:55 PM
His numbers are pretty similar to TV ratings.

just forget about this stuff, and enjoy watching futbol ... although MLS has been horrible to watch so far (hopefully it gets better), premiership futbol has been great and Euro 2016 in two months.

molenshtain
04-08-2016, 02:57 PM
stats are biased!

SoccMan2
04-09-2016, 08:14 AM
Well these TV ratings just seem very strange, the Raptors only getting 150000 the other night, they are having one of the best regular seasons ever, they have sold out all their games but yet only 150000 is what they got on TV very strange.

robotfighter
04-09-2016, 10:41 AM
By whom? Arm chair statisticians who can't count to 10? Or the ones who can't understand that polling 1500 people is more than sufficient given the error rate won't decrease meaningfully even if it was 10k. I'll give my 95% degree of confidence level to a prof vs the unwashed masses.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Oh dear. This was an online survey. The same survey found the following in 2013: The only place the MLB is less popular than Quebec is... Alberta. The MLB. Where the Expos are still an obsession and over 100,000 people attended two spring training games of non-local teams is actually weakest in La Belle Province! If this game was in Brandon there would have been 200,000.

According to this survey, the NBA is more popular in Saskatchewan than...Ontario! The N.B.A. Basketball. In vagina saskatchewan.

Oh dear. In 2013 the MLS was almost twice as popular in Manitoba than...again, Ontario! Winnipeg loves the Fire SC!

And Holy S*%$ his 2015 CAN-AM Sports Survey claims that curling is more popular in the USA then MLS is in Canada. Curling and figure skating are most popular under 35. And the world is flat.

I go to Little Rock and all they want to talk is Kevin Koe.

And Ricky Ray.

Most this idiot's headlines go something like this...CFL IS GOD'S GAME. SECOND MOST POPULAR SPORT IN WORLD. PEOPLE IN SIERRA LEONE LOVE CFL! I could do a more reliable survey with a couple drunk friends.

That is all.

OgtheDim
04-09-2016, 01:16 PM
Mic drop

TFC07
04-09-2016, 02:21 PM
Well these TV ratings just seem very strange, the Raptors only getting 150000 the other night, they are having one of the best regular seasons ever, they have sold out all their games but yet only 150000 is what they got on TV very strange.

Raptors fanbase is much younger and urban where they're most likely watch Raptor games online/IPTV. Best way to prove that theory is simply looking at their online presence and compare it to other Toronto sport teams.

Also remember that a lot of Raptor games are broadcast on secondary sport channels like Sportsnet One or TSN 2.

robotfighter
04-27-2016, 09:28 AM
The two biggest MLS markets in the country, both having fantastic early seasons, in a rivalry game with its own name...featuring Giovinco and Drogba, an MVP and a legend...etc, etc, etc...didn't crack Zelkovich's magic list this weekend. This will be reported as bad. But wasn't it on TSN4 which is called that because like 4% of people in Canada get the channel or know where to find it. Furthermore, the Raptors tragic fall in ratings this weekend amongst 50 year old prairie turnip farmers will overshadow Toronto FC's woes and give justification for ignoring basketball too (it has no future with a rapidly growing immigrant and visible minority population which travels 2,000 strong 14 hours away and fills public squares) to pump hockey (the future).

These funny guys are really grasping to their ice hockey like it's the rebel flag of Old Canada. Follow Raptors fans. That's my advice to TFC fans. You are brothers. And together you can trample the gatekeepers.

TravelPat
04-27-2016, 11:11 AM
TSN4 is the MAIN TSN channel for almost all of Ontario (only the Ottawa area is TSN5). It is has the biggest reach of TSN's four regional channels (TSN1 (BC, Alberta), 3 (Saskatchewan, Manitoba), 4 (Almost all of Ontario), 5 (Ottawa Valley and East). Most people across Canada get TSN4 as part of their cable package. Not hitting 97,000 on English TV - which is the lowest number that appears on Numeris's ratings for weekend sports programs is pretty sad. I'd be curious to see what the ratings were like on whatever French language channel that covered the game were. Hopefully better than the English language ratings.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--where-did-the-raptors-fans-go-213013737.html

mr k
04-27-2016, 12:22 PM
Mic drop

OgtheDim
04-27-2016, 12:29 PM
Oh I'm not doubting the TV numbers. Raptors and baseball. Lets see if the evening games get any traction.

I stand by my concerns with that survey and Bibby.

QBall
04-27-2016, 02:08 PM
TSN4 is the MAIN TSN channel for almost all of Ontario (only the Ottawa area is TSN5). It is has the biggest reach of TSN's four regional channels (TSN1 (BC, Alberta), 3 (Saskatchewan, Manitoba), 4 (Almost all of Ontario), 5 (Ottawa Valley and East). Most people across Canada get TSN4 as part of their cable package. Not hitting 97,000 on English TV - which is the lowest number that appears on Numeris's ratings for weekend sports programs is pretty sad. I'd be curious to see what the ratings were like on whatever French language channel that covered the game were. Hopefully better than the English language ratings.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--where-did-the-raptors-fans-go-213013737.html

Damn, even with two Canadian teams with internationally known names on both sides and with both teams near the top of the standings we couldn't break 100,000 on TV? What's it going to take?

SoccMan2
04-27-2016, 02:28 PM
It's not going to take anything, these numbers will not ever improve this is the level of interest of TFC and the MLS in Canada and North America, the TV numbers will never be great, MLSE needs to understand this and figure out how they want to go forward, if they want to continue with owning TFC in the future at all. We have too many established leagues that have been around for ever, the MLS can't compete TV numbers wise with these leagues, in Canada they will never compete with the CFL either in terms of TV numbers. There is no purpose in going over the TV numbers week out and week in they are not ever changing people, maybe a little bit of a bump during the playoffs but that is it. I've been following soccer in North America forever and TV numbers were just as bad during the old NASL in the 70's and 80's and nothing has changed TV numbers wise today with the MLS and it's not changing ever!

notthesun
05-18-2016, 04:56 PM
Missed this earlier: TFC vs. Dallas a couple weeks ago drew 107k (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--toronto-raptors-on-a-record-run-on-television-220709466.html).

And TFC vs. Vancouver drew 162k (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--raptors-rise-to-an-unprecedented-level-225149744.html).

Amir FC
07-27-2016, 09:52 AM
what is going on with TFC ratings? They cant even get 100 k !!!! I think whitecaps are doing much better this year.

OgtheDim
07-27-2016, 10:05 AM
TV ratings are what they are. Vancouver has been better then TFC for years now - that audience was built up by consistently being on the same channel each time. That's not going to happen with TFC because 2 companies own the rights.

Cord cutters bring this down a bit but the market just isn't there. It going to take another 10 years to build up the market to watch MLS in this country - MLS itself is only starting to see decent ratings in the US this season and that's after 20 years.

The issue for TFC, as Dan Riccio indicated this morning, is if the TV ratings don't improve media companies will not see the need to cover the team.

Yohan
07-27-2016, 10:33 AM
TV ratings are what they are. Vancouver has been better then TFC for years now - that audience was built up by consistently being on the same channel each time. That's not going to happen with TFC because 2 companies own the rights.

Cord cutters bring this down a bit but the market just isn't there. It going to take another 10 years to build up the market to watch MLS in this country - MLS itself is only starting to see decent ratings in the US this season and that's after 20 years.

The issue for TFC, as Dan Riccio indicated this morning, is if the TV ratings don't improve media companies will not see the need to cover the team.
http://www.oregonlive.com/mls/index.ssf/2016/07/espns_tv_ratings_for_mls_are_u.html

Amir FC
07-27-2016, 10:45 AM
So we should just be happy that TFC is on TV.

105
07-27-2016, 10:59 AM
Early years are always a struggle.

The Raptors at one point were under 100K for regular season games. Even with all their success lately, they were still averaging about 200-250K for your normal regular season games. But they are showing signs lately of growing with million + audiences for the playoffs.

If TFC continues to draw well at the gate and they build a consistamt winner, their ratings will increase over time. Not Leafs/Jays high, but I could see them getting growing at a respectable rate.

Amir FC
07-27-2016, 11:08 AM
EPL gets an average of 150 k (I think) for Saturday and Sunday mornings. Most of my soccer friends thought my TFC pics where somewhere in Europe !!!! My point is that many soccer fans dont watch MLS.

FYI, La Liga has 4:15 pm games from Monday to Sunday this season, so MLS should stick with the 7:30 games (in US).

Richard
07-27-2016, 11:43 AM
The issue with the TFC ratings is that they are not on the CBC anymore, they were consistently pulling in 150K viewers in the early years, blame it on the overpriced TV packages for the garbage ratings.

Onyx
07-27-2016, 01:27 PM
So we should just be happy that TFC is on TV.

It will always be on TV, even if TSN dropped MLS when the contract expires, the two owners would show TFC games on their networks. 50% on SN and 50% on TSN. like the raptors.

hulkrogan
07-27-2016, 02:05 PM
The issue with the TFC ratings is that they are not on the CBC anymore, they were consistently pulling in 150K viewers in the early years, blame it on the overpriced TV packages for the garbage ratings.

100% agree. Part of the reason I ended up following TFC was I'd stumble on the games on CBC. Now that I'm an established fan I will hunt them down on TSN 1, TSN 2, TSN 3, TSN 4, TSN 5, SN360, SN West etc... but a casual fan is not going to stumble on the games as easily.

Pookie
07-27-2016, 03:10 PM
I beat this drum the last few seasons so I'lll simply tap it once and move on.

Personal story is that I've lost interest in the outcome of any single game in the regular season as MLS has set it up such that they aren't that important. 6 of 10 teams make the playoffs. A single knock out game is the metric with which you judge a season now (or a 2 game home and home).

Feel the same about NHL regular season as I get older. What's there to get all worked up about? Just one of many games that are basically practice for the few games that will get coaches awards or fired.

Baseball regular season is more intriguing as the playoffs are tougher to make.

I go to the games to watch the play and simple enjoyment. But if I'm too busy to go, I'm not likely to watch it either. Just don't feel as emotionally vested in the outcome.

Don't feel that way at all about EPL. All games matter in the outcome. Whether it's a relegation battle or top 4 or the championship quest.

I think people would take MLS more seriously if they did away with the playoffs. Maybe appealing to North American fans is the wrong approach. Appeal to soccer fans. Give them something that resonates.

Last drum solo on that for me.

Onyx
07-27-2016, 03:19 PM
I beat this drum the last few seasons so I'lll simply tap it once and move on.

Personal story is that I've lost interest in the outcome of any single game in the regular season as MLS has set it up such that they aren't that important. 6 of 10 teams make the playoffs. A single knock out game is the metric with which you judge a season now (or a 2 game home and home).

Feel the same about NHL regular season as I get older. What's there to get all worked up about? Just one of many games that are basically practice for the few games that will get coaches awards or fired.

Baseball regular season is more intriguing as the playoffs are tougher to make.

I go to the games to watch the play and simple enjoyment. But if I'm too busy to go, I'm not likely to watch it either. Just don't feel as emotionally vested in the outcome.

Don't feel that way at all about EPL. All games matter in the outcome. Whether it's a relegation battle or top 4 or the championship quest.

I think people would take MLS more seriously if they did away with the playoffs. Maybe appealing to North American fans is the wrong approach. Appeal to soccer fans. Give them something that resonates.

Last drum solo on that for me.

THIS!!!!
That why i like watching premiership too. All the games matter. MLS should get rid of the playoffs. I'd expand the teams in CCL for people who want knockout football (like top 10 teams in MLS make CCL)

Richard
07-27-2016, 03:59 PM
I would actually like to see MLS separate into two leagues, like how baseball didn't have interleague play years ago with AL/NL teams not playing each other in the regular season.

You play each team in the league 3 times, have a trophy for each leagues winner, then top 2-3 in each league go into a cup knockout for country wide supremacy.

Of course then you wont get to see some of other leagues stars, in my opinion this is the way it should go with so many teams coming into the league.

I think this would be the best of both worlds, quite unique in the world of football and also not unprecedented because Americans had this type of format for years with baseball.

OgtheDim
07-27-2016, 04:11 PM
It should be noted that we only get the important EPL matches on TV because the networks pick and choose what they cover. After about October, a lot of the stuff we don't see is pretty poor and only followed by supporters of specific teams. Especially the midweek stuff.

Case in point - over the last few years some of the big name teams have dropped down to 8th or so for a spell - Chelsea and Man U games got airplay but were pretty boring grim affairs that eventually got shunted for more interesting stuff.

That and I think relegation battles are highly overrated as drama - its like watching two 9 year olds playing road hockey only they can never hit the freaking net so when one does ur flabbergasted.

mistercorporate
07-27-2016, 07:58 PM
THIS!!!!
That why i like watching premiership too. All the games matter. MLS should get rid of the playoffs. I'd expand the teams in CCL for people who want knockout football (like top 10 teams in MLS make CCL)

This makes sense.

ag futbol
07-27-2016, 08:44 PM
The idea that a straight-up home-away format is perfectly balanced is overdone. There are always situations arise where you can question a team's motivation and it is also quite anti-climactic at times. Not mortally flawed by any means but I think the small playoff format some leagues have is the best balance.

But this is all personal preference. You can really argue any way you want about the type of format is the best form of competition.

GBV
07-28-2016, 12:37 AM
I beat this drum the last few seasons so I'lll simply tap it once and move on.

Personal story is that I've lost interest in the outcome of any single game in the regular season as MLS has set it up such that they aren't that important. 6 of 10 teams make the playoffs. A single knock out game is the metric with which you judge a season now (or a 2 game home and home).

Feel the same about NHL regular season as I get older. What's there to get all worked up about? Just one of many games that are basically practice for the few games that will get coaches awards or fired.

Baseball regular season is more intriguing as the playoffs are tougher to make.

I go to the games to watch the play and simple enjoyment. But if I'm too busy to go, I'm not likely to watch it either. Just don't feel as emotionally vested in the outcome.

Don't feel that way at all about EPL. All games matter in the outcome. Whether it's a relegation battle or top 4 or the championship quest.

I think people would take MLS more seriously if they did away with the playoffs. Maybe appealing to North American fans is the wrong approach. Appeal to soccer fans. Give them something that resonates.

Last drum solo on that for me.

Baseball, even the top teams lose 60 times. What is the winning percentage of the current top teams? I'm not gonna look but probably barely .600. Games aren't that crucial if you can be the best team while losing 40 per cent of the games.

Then there is the playing 160-something times ... play the same team 2/3/4 days in a row, all year long ... reach the playoffs and then all of a sudden it's three out of five to start and your season could be done. Or out in the one-off "wildcard" thing. After playing 160-something times?

(Then there is the OHL .... 16 of 20 make the playoffs? After 60-something cash-grabbing regular season games for each team?)

I don't like playoffs ... rewards the "hottest" team not the "best" team (which is more fairly determined by playing everyone equally and giving first-place team the title). But it's the North American "build drama" way, sadly.

Even soccer over there gets caught up in that at least a little bit. All these two-leg ties in Champions League but then when it comes time for the finals it's a one-off, with a boat load of hype and at a neutral venue. Everyone's got a little WWE in them I guess.

KurtLarSUN
07-28-2016, 07:06 AM
I beat this drum the last few seasons so I'lll simply tap it once and move on.

Personal story is that I've lost interest in the outcome of any single game in the regular season as MLS has set it up such that they aren't that important. 6 of 10 teams make the playoffs. A single knock out game is the metric with which you judge a season now (or a 2 game home and home).

Feel the same about NHL regular season as I get older. What's there to get all worked up about? Just one of many games that are basically practice for the few games that will get coaches awards or fired.

Baseball regular season is more intriguing as the playoffs are tougher to make.

I go to the games to watch the play and simple enjoyment. But if I'm too busy to go, I'm not likely to watch it either. Just don't feel as emotionally vested in the outcome.

Don't feel that way at all about EPL. All games matter in the outcome. Whether it's a relegation battle or top 4 or the championship quest.

I think people would take MLS more seriously if they did away with the playoffs. Maybe appealing to North American fans is the wrong approach. Appeal to soccer fans. Give them something that resonates.

Last drum solo on that for me.

Interesting topic, but I don't really understand the conversation....
All the games matter in the EPL, but not in MLS? How so?
I mean, look at the Eastern Conference:
At least five teams (NYC, NY, TFC, MTL and PHI) are competing for top spot in the East, which sometimes brings a Supporters' Shield.
And I'd argue at least the top six teams in the East are still competing for home field advantage throughout the playoffs.
After that, DC, ORL, NE, TFC, MTL and PHI are competing to at least host the knockout playoff match, which is extremely important.
And no team (OK, maybe Chicago) is eliminated from playoff contention.
Sure, Major League Soccer's regular season isn't as important as, say, NCAA football's, but the East is tight. The games matter.
In the EPL, I'm not sure you can argue teams 7-15 are playing for all that much.

ensco
07-28-2016, 07:35 AM
Interesting topic, but I don't really understand the conversation....
All the games matter in the EPL, but not in MLS? How so?
I mean, look at the Eastern Conference:
At least five teams (NYC, NY, TFC, MTL and PHI) are competing for top spot in the East, which sometimes brings a Supporters' Shield.
And I'd argue at least the top six teams in the East are still competing for home field advantage throughout the playoffs.
After that, DC, ORL, NE, TFC, MTL and PHI are competing to at least host the knockout playoff match, which is extremely important.
And no team (OK, maybe Chicago) is eliminated from playoff contention.
Sure, Major League Soccer's regular season isn't as important as, say, NCAA football's, but the East is tight. The games matter.
In the EPL, I'm not sure you can argue teams 7-15 are playing for all that much.

No mans land is 11th or 12th, and that's it. Obviously it depends year by year, but often teams 8, 9 and 10 still have a shot at Europe until the last couple of weeks, and there have been lots of years when 13th place isn't safe until the last 3-4 weeks. There will always be years when there are no races somewhere in the English table (there were 2-3 years in a row a few years back where there top 4 teams were 10 points clear by Xmas), but, overall, it's pretty lively down the stretch there.

Something about MLS playoffs is very off. I can't ever seem to put my finger on it, but they just feel cheap, random, rushed, and illegitimate. There is no sense of occasion, legitimate or otherwise.

KurtLarSUN
07-28-2016, 07:37 AM
No mans land is 11th or 12th, and that's it. Obviously it depends year by year, but often teams 8, 9 and 10 still have a shot at Europe until the last couple of weeks, and there have been lots of years when 13th place isn't safe until the last 3-4 weeks.

There will always be years when there are no races somewhere in the English table (there were 2-3 years in a row a few years back where there top 4 teams were 10 points clear by Xmas), but, overall, it's pretty lively down the stretch there.

Something about MLS playoffs is very off. I can't ever seem to put my finger on it, but they just feel cheap, random, rushed, and illegitimate.

MLS needs to expand (to 24 teams) but leave playoffs as is. The playoffs include enough teams.

As for the EPL, I just don't call "playing for Europa" that exciting. It's more or less a money-making scheme. It's not important in the least.

ensco
07-28-2016, 07:42 AM
MLS needs to expand (to 24 teams) but leave playoffs as is. The playoffs include enough teams.

As for the EPL, I just don't call "playing for Europa" that exciting. It's more or less a money-making scheme. It's not important in the least.

There's truth to that. Depends on the club. When it's a big club, absolutely right (although even big clubs do take it seriously, now that winning Europa can be a back door to CL). Europa is (was until Leicester anyway) something that matters for a smaller club. Leicester may have hurt Europa League in England.

ensco
07-28-2016, 07:53 AM
Hockey is different than MLS, for me. Hockey regular season is kind of a long preseason, sure, but but the hockey playoffs are long, a whole second season. The Stanley Cup winner has earned it.

But soccer playoffs never feel right. It's Portugal winning the Euros having won exactly one game in 90 minutes. Same problem.

105
07-28-2016, 07:54 AM
There needs to be a greater importance placed on the Supporters Shield. I actually think winning it is a bigger accomplishment than the MLS Cup.

ensco
07-28-2016, 07:58 AM
There needs to be a greater importance placed on the Supporters Shield. I actually think winning it is a bigger accomplishment than the MLS Cup.

One problem is severely unbalanced schedule. NY winning it was a joke.

There are lots of other reasons why it'll never matter.

Fort York Redcoat
07-28-2016, 08:14 AM
I beat this drum the last few seasons so I'lll simply tap it once and move on.

Personal story is that I've lost interest in the outcome of any single game in the regular season as MLS has set it up such that they aren't that important. 6 of 10 teams make the playoffs. A single knock out game is the metric with which you judge a season now (or a 2 game home and home).

Feel the same about NHL regular season as I get older. What's there to get all worked up about? Just one of many games that are basically practice for the few games that will get coaches awards or fired.

Baseball regular season is more intriguing as the playoffs are tougher to make.

I go to the games to watch the play and simple enjoyment. But if I'm too busy to go, I'm not likely to watch it either. Just don't feel as emotionally vested in the outcome.

Don't feel that way at all about EPL. All games matter in the outcome. Whether it's a relegation battle or top 4 or the championship quest.

I think people would take MLS more seriously if they did away with the playoffs. Maybe appealing to North American fans is the wrong approach. Appeal to soccer fans. Give them something that resonates.

Last drum solo on that for me.

Pook, you get an annual tempo for this as long as it continues to be relevant to the league. And it still is.

Fort York Redcoat
07-28-2016, 08:17 AM
There needs to be a greater importance placed on the Supporters Shield. I actually think winning it is a bigger accomplishment than the MLS Cup.

Of course it's a bigger accomplishment than winning playoffs. The main reason playoffs are more popular is because it's less of a time investment.

KurtLarSUN
07-28-2016, 08:21 AM
Of course it's a bigger accomplishment than winning playoffs. The main reason playoffs are more popular is because it's less of a time investment.

Do you feel the same about Major League Baseball and the National Football League?

Fort York Redcoat
07-28-2016, 08:24 AM
As for the EPL, I just don't call "playing for Europa" that exciting. It's more or less a money-making scheme. It's not important in the least.

Sad that NA can't see how special playing other nations other than the US is. Europa is exciting for the fans that get to experience teams outside the norm.

How playing the same teams at the end of a season again to make sure how good you are is dated. It's an NA concept built for cross continental play before the use of commercial flights.

But, hey, it's tradition and what works for the rest of the world doesn't make NA change. Not quickly anyway.

Pint
07-28-2016, 08:29 AM
Do you feel the same about Major League Baseball and the National Football League?

I think it comes down to north american based leagues are geared around winning the championship (stanley cup, super bowl, world series etc) but many soccer fans grew up with the champion being the best team over the length of the season with cups being side or added competitions.

What is the bigger accomplishment Golden State with the best record of all time in a single season or Cleveland winning the title?

KurtLarSUN
07-28-2016, 08:33 AM
I think it comes down to north american based leagues are geared around winning the championship (stanley cup, super bowl, world series etc) but many soccer fans grew up with the champion being the best team over the length of the season with cups being side or added competitions.

What is the bigger accomplishment Golden State with the best record of all time in a single season or Cleveland winning the title?

In the short-term, Cleveland. Forty years from now, Golden State.

But that's an extreme. Nobody will remember how good the Miami Heat were in the regular season five years ago.

ag futbol
07-28-2016, 08:40 AM
Sad that NA can't see how special playing other nations other than the US is. Europa is exciting for the fans that get to experience teams outside the norm.

How playing the same teams at the end of a season again to make sure how good you are is dated. It's an NA concept built for cross continental play before the use of commercial flights.

But, hey, it's tradition and what works for the rest of the world doesn't make NA change. Not quickly anyway.
Well look at the formats. How many counties in Europe field at least one team with a legit shot of winning champions? Minimum 4 - not hard to stretch that to 6 or 7 in a good year.

Comparatively you are asking north Americas to get excited about a tournament where 2 or 3 countries field comparative teams and the best field 2nd choice squads frequently. The worst? Borderline beer league teams!

Pint
07-28-2016, 08:41 AM
In the short-term, Cleveland. Forty years from now, Golden State.

But that's an extreme. Nobody will remember how good the Miami Heat were in the regular season five years ago.

Because thats not the bench mark.

The 2 league you posed earlier i think show the least importance on being the best regular season team as it doesn't even guarantee you home advantage throughout (MLB allstar game, NFL neutral site picked years out). At least in MLS, NHL and NBA etc you get some (potential) reward for being the regular season team.

Bigger accomplishment: EPL title or Champions League title? MLS cup or CCL title?

OgtheDim
07-28-2016, 08:50 AM
Bigger accomplishment: EPL title or Champions League title? MLS cup or CCL title?

Different accomplishments due to how the competition occurs.

Leicester was the bigger accomplishment then Real but Montreal going to the CCL final game with a chance at a win was bigger then Portland's Cup win.

Pookie
07-28-2016, 09:05 AM
Interesting topic, but I don't really understand the conversation....
All the games matter in the EPL, but not in MLS? How so?
I mean, look at the Eastern Conference:
At least five teams (NYC, NY, TFC, MTL and PHI) are competing for top spot in the East, which sometimes brings a Supporters' Shield.
And I'd argue at least the top six teams in the East are still competing for home field advantage throughout the playoffs.
After that, DC, ORL, NE, TFC, MTL and PHI are competing to at least host the knockout playoff match, which is extremely important.
And no team (OK, maybe Chicago) is eliminated from playoff contention.
Sure, Major League Soccer's regular season isn't as important as, say, NCAA football's, but the East is tight. The games matter.
In the EPL, I'm not sure you can argue teams 7-15 are playing for all that much.

(Ok, maybe another tap or two)

Perhaps "matter" wasn't the right choice of word. Clearly, in the format laid out in which 6 of 10 teams qualify, then the games "matter" for those that are still in the hunt... which by business design is virtually everyone for as long as possible.

"Meaning" would probably be a better choice of word. Playing for something that is hard to win has value.

You note competition for top spot as something of value for MLS teams and fans. Sure, home field is the prize... which for franchise operators means revenue. And the Supporter's Shield is a nice photo op for marketing but from a competition standpoint, winning the league doesn't mean very much in the eyes of MLS. The top teams in each conference last year didn't make the final game. Didn't the year before either. Didn't the year before that... and I stopped looking but I'm willing to bet there's a trend there.

North American leagues are generally designed to be close as long as possible. Worst example is the NHL in which points are given for losing games as long as you get to overtime. Results in teams playing not to lose for 60 minutes in stifling defensive efforts that have me reaching for the remote to see who's in the MasterChef Pressure Test this week. MLS at least doesn't have a gimmick point system but instead their gimmick is the playoffs.

Playing for something that has value.

Close your eyes for a minute and imagine last year's EPL run. Now imagine that Leicester City wins the "Supporters" Shield. Now imagine that they have to go into the Playoffs now and play Man United and get knocked out. United then takes on Man City (who knocked out the other top seed) for a winner take all Championship and they win.

Who is the better club? Who had a better season?

The answer to that... from a soccer/football fan perspective.... tells you all that you need to know about the value we (some of us) see in MLS Playoffs.

Pookie
07-28-2016, 09:14 AM
Baseball, even the top teams lose 60 times. What is the winning percentage of the current top teams? I'm not gonna look but probably barely .600. Games aren't that crucial if you can be the best team while losing 40 per cent of the games.

Then there is the playing 160-something times ... play the same team 2/3/4 days in a row, all year long ... reach the playoffs and then all of a sudden it's three out of five to start and your season could be done. Or out in the one-off "wildcard" thing. After playing 160-something times?

(Then there is the OHL .... 16 of 20 make the playoffs? After 60-something cash-grabbing regular season games for each team?)

I don't like playoffs ... rewards the "hottest" team not the "best" team (which is more fairly determined by playing everyone equally and giving first-place team the title). But it's the North American "build drama" way, sadly.

Even soccer over there gets caught up in that at least a little bit. All these two-leg ties in Champions League but then when it comes time for the finals it's a one-off, with a boat load of hype and at a neutral venue. Everyone's got a little WWE in them I guess.

Agree.

Just note that the baseball example with a .600 win percentage needs a little qualification. The games are played until someone wins, no ties. Leicester City had a .605 win percentage... meaning they too didn't win approx 40% of their games. Of course, if those draws had of played out they may have won more.

In some markets, attendance for MLS playoff games actually drops from regular season totals. MLS has to decide if it needs to appeal to the North American fan or if it needs to appeal to the Soccer fan in North America that currently turns their collective noses up at the "quality" they perceive in MLS.

Capture the fan that doesn't know the game but can appreciate and understand the format or capture the the fan that knows and loves the game but doesn't (currently) see it as a top flight league. I'd argue the latter would be easier and probably net them the market growth they are looking for.

To do that, getting rid of gimmicks like the playoffs would be critical IMO.

ag futbol
07-28-2016, 09:14 AM
In the NBA this year you had *maybe* four teams of any consequence. Everyone else was just making up the numbers. I really don't think clearing the bar against a lot of mediocre teams frequently makes you a more worthy champion than winning multiple head-to-heads against the best.

You could argue the finals was unfair given all the good teams (except 1) were in the same conference but that's about playoff bracketing, not the regular season.

I won't be looking back at the Patriots and saying they were the rightful champion the year they lost only one game in the Super Bowl. When it mattered they couldn't finish the job.

The issue with MLS is the playoffs are too long. Who is still watching this shit by the time Black Friday is still around the corner? They need to take a page out of the NFL's book and tighten up the schedule.

Fort York Redcoat
07-28-2016, 09:26 AM
Well look at the formats. How many counties in Europe field at least one team with a legit shot of winning champions? Minimum 4 - not hard to stretch that to 6 or 7 in a good year.

Comparatively you are asking north Americas to get excited about a tournament where 2 or 3 countries field comparative teams and the best field 2nd choice squads frequently. The worst? Borderline beer league teams!

I just read that as "Insular fans".

It's just how i see the difference. NA fans DO have a tendency to look at anything unknown as unproven instead of something different and of interest. I'm trying to personally get over the reverse - I'm actually visiting all these NA cities I couldn't be bothered to before because they were the same old boring American cities in every sports league. I don't have to get over anything to be drawn to an away match in the CCL. That would be an experience. This game has to be more (to me) than the breakdown of talent on the tv.

mistercorporate
07-28-2016, 09:34 AM
MLS needs to expand (to 24 teams) but leave playoffs as is. The playoffs include enough teams.

As for the EPL, I just don't call "playing for Europa" that exciting. It's more or less a money-making scheme. It's not important in the least.

I find the Europa Cup is a similar level of play to the top MLS clubs, entertaining but with a couple journey men who make the occasional sloppy play. That being said, the main attraction is all those exotic countries with their representative teams, the ambience, strong and loud supporters groups, good camera coverage and lovely full stadiums.

ag futbol
07-28-2016, 09:44 AM
I just read that as "Insular fans".

It's just how i see the difference. NA fans DO have a tendency to look at anything unknown as unproven instead of something different and of interest. I'm trying to personally get over the reverse - I'm actually visiting all these NA cities I couldn't be bothered to before because they were the same old boring American cities in every sports league. I don't have to get over anything to be drawn to an away match in the CCL. That would be an experience. This game has to be more (to me) than the breakdown of talent on the tv.
That sounds like tourism not sport to me.

And really, are you going to say with a straight face that nobody in Europe has ever complained about playing minnow teams in early rounds? The inclusion of countries that stretch the boundaries of the continent? That the Euro is a more pure competition than the World Cup? They have their own inward looking preferences too at times.

Easy to label NA as "insular" when each country is much larger than the equivalent in Europe. If we were to Re-draw those lines overseas or chop up what we have here the conclusions would be much different.

Fort York Redcoat
07-28-2016, 10:50 AM
That sounds like tourism not sport to me.

And really, are you going to say with a straight face that nobody in Europe has ever complained about playing minnow teams in early rounds? The inclusion of countries that stretch the boundaries of the continent? That the Euro is a more pure competition than the World Cup? They have their own inward looking preferences too at times.

Easy to label NA as "insular" when each country is much larger than the equivalent in Europe. If we were to Re-draw those lines overseas or chop up what we have here the conclusions would be much different.

And I think that version of sport without live experience is less passionate. To each his own.

Insular thought isn't only in NA. It's what I experience the most. I'm also not saying Europe wouldn't be prone to it if the lines were comparable. I'm saying whoever is prone to it can rise above insular POV's.

Initial B
07-28-2016, 12:16 PM
The thing about the NA playoff structure is that is where leagues pick up the casual fan on TV who doesn't want to invest in a full season of following a league. If they like what they see, then they might join the regular fans that watch games during the season. And if they like that, they may eventually pay to come to those games. And if they really like that, they'll eventually join the supporters section. And if they get caught up in that, they become hardcore ultras. g:D

Pookie
07-28-2016, 01:41 PM
The thing about the NA playoff structure is that is where leagues pick up the casual fan on TV who doesn't want to invest in a full season of following a league. If they like what they see, then they might join the regular fans that watch games during the season. And if they like that, they may eventually pay to come to those games. And if they really like that, they'll eventually join the supporters section. And if they get caught up in that, they become hardcore ultras. g:D

Well judging by the ratings, if this is the strategy it needs to be re-evaluated.

This board has some of the most hardcore fans in the game. How many watched the playoffs once TFC was out?

I didn't even know who won the MLS Cup this year without looking it up. And I couldn't tell you which network... if any carried it.

I am absolutely certain that aside from the game we hosted, I cannot name the MLS playoff winner from any game over the last decade and I certainly can't admit to watching a playoff game not involving TFC from start to finish in well... ever.

I could however tell you which clubs were the strongest from start to finish as measured by both the table and a little envy over the years.

OgtheDim
07-28-2016, 01:48 PM
I am convinced that most people at TFC games have no idea what happens between home games. If you took a poll last week asking how many players SJE finished with, the vast majority would say 11.

ensco
07-28-2016, 03:47 PM
In the short-term, Cleveland. Forty years from now, Golden State.

But that's an extreme. Nobody will remember how good the Miami Heat were in the regular season five years ago.

I'll take this bet.

Lots of Wilt Chamberlain teams won the regular season best record. Nobody cares. Wilt is a loser because he "only" won two titles.

The greatest regular season team in NBA history is the 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks. Went 66-16 (lost 5 of their last 6 because nobody cared about these records back then, and they sat everyone). Massive stats in terms of margins of victory etc - they had a margin of victory of 12.5, GSW last year was 10.5. Lost only two games in the playoffs.

Absolutely nobody remembers the 1971 Bucks regular season.

fergiejr
07-28-2016, 05:00 PM
I don't put a lot of stock in ratings - does anyone on here have a Nielsen box? Who among us is more likely to go to a bar to watch the game with like minded people than to stay home and watch it on TSN/Sportsnet? Do they count every MLS live connection in the ratings as well? That wouldn't work for home games and people watching through a VPN tunnel.

I think there may have been a time where Nielsen ratings grabbed a good sample of the demographic, but I don't think that is valid anymore. But maybe that is just me not understanding how the ratings are calculated - whether they know if I am watching the last TFC game live or on my PVR.

Pookie
07-28-2016, 10:10 PM
^ well other sports with higher ratings would be influenced by the same factors wouldn't they?

Abou Sky
07-30-2016, 09:45 PM
MLS won't have higher TV ratings until the quality of the product on the field is better.

People go to games for a great atmosphere, but watching it on TV compared to top leagues is painful.

TravelPat
08-03-2016, 10:12 PM
Chris Zelkovich - who does the Great Canadian Ratings Report blog of weekend sports ratings just had this exchange on Twitter with somebody. Apparently TFC are averaging 38,000 for the season thus far.






Qman ‏@Qman604 (https://twitter.com/Qman604) 9h9 hours ago (https://twitter.com/Qman604/status/760896448737050624)
@czelkov (https://twitter.com/czelkov) argos and toronto fc when directly head to head last weekend, interesting to see the numbers

0 retweets0 likes





https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2887177936/99e0bda617e826c759097e238cce04df_bigger.pngChris Zelkovich‏@czelkov (https://twitter.com/czelkov)



@Qman604 (https://twitter.com/Qman604) Not really: Argos/Redblacks 562,000. TFC game didn't register (season average 38,000).

Doucet3
08-04-2016, 12:28 AM
MLS won't have higher TV ratings until the quality of the product on the field is better.

People go to games for a great atmosphere, but watching it on TV compared to top leagues is painful.

I wouldn't say painful it's decent football compared to top leagues... What I'm thinking is it's that football is a "great day out" for the family and TFC games are an experience (us southenders bring something NO other sport can) so when we go on the road the avg family dosnt always pay attention whilst still being a fan they arnt a supporter like most of us on here who follow the team any possible way we can they'd rather watch the highlights pack to participate in banter .. And that's the few that do

i think ink as football grows in Canada our numbers will grow

Oldtimer
08-04-2016, 06:28 AM
Chris Zelkovich - who does the Great Canadian Ratings Report blog of weekend sports ratings just had this exchange on Twitter with somebody. Apparently TFC are averaging 38,000 for the season thus far.

People over 60 watch a lot of TV, especially out west (where most CFL viewership lives).

OgtheDim
08-04-2016, 06:41 AM
The issue about ratings is that the media has no way of judging interest in any sport apart from TV (and radio) ratings. There has been a jump in TFC media coverage in the last 3 seasons. But will that continue if the TV ratings don't increase?

E.g. How long will Rogers put money into a twice weekly podcast on Fan590, and have a guy spending 1/2 his time on the team (Riccio)?

The demographics of soccer in this city are excellent - supporters are the target market for advertisers. And the fan base is passionate about all the details going on with the team, and devours all media involving TFC. There just isn't enough of people like us, but who don't go to games.

Fort York Redcoat
08-04-2016, 07:21 AM
This argument is funny to me. Overall I know most of the talk in here comes from a good place wanting to see the team succeed at every possible level or medium but really for me it breaks down to how a sport is attractive.

TFC - Not attractive on TV
Argos- Not attractive live.

I'm okay with that right now. It will change slowly over the years since the CFL is proof all it takes is being there for decades for people to watch it. It's not about quality standards.

Yohan
08-04-2016, 08:23 AM
If you have an Argos game that's plastered over all 5 TSN channels and you get a TFC game that's on Sportsnet 360, of course the numbers are going to be different.

OgtheDim
08-04-2016, 08:56 AM
A whole lot of


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H5uWRjFsGc


going on between some CFL and TFC supporters.

Meh...ratings are bad but the soccer demographics are good.

This is a marathon that will take decades.

paul-collins
08-04-2016, 09:52 AM
Meh...ratings are bad but the soccer demographics are good.

This is a marathon that will take decades.
A lesson that Rogers *has* learned with the Jays - winning sells.

This season will do a lot to raise the profile of the team, and the league, in Toronto. the team will earn its move onto better channels for next year. (Wasn't long ago that you had to watch on Gol TV!)

Hey, the game got column inches in the Globe today. That's not a regular occurrence. Granted, it was about half the spread of the CanWNT game, but at least it was there!

Jack
08-04-2016, 10:41 AM
Do those TV numbers include streaming? TFC is a much younger and more tech-savvy fanbase. I'd wager there is a solid streaming audience. If Rogers and Bell had half a brain, they'd let MLS Live stream TFC games in their region and just make them use the Canadian stream with the Canadian ads. That way, they could show the audience to advertisers and demand more money. They aren't forcing anyone to buy their cable packages just for TFC games...

TFC07
08-04-2016, 10:55 AM
Do those TV numbers include streaming? TFC is a much younger and more tech-savvy fanbase. I'd wager there is a solid streaming audience. If Rogers and Bell had half a brain, they'd let MLS Live stream TFC games in their region and just make them use the Canadian stream with the Canadian ads. That way, they could show the audience to advertisers and demand more money. They aren't forcing anyone to buy their cable packages just for TFC games...

Agreed.

Right now, I have IPTV but wouldn't mind paying for MLS live if I could watch every TFC game.

I don't have cable and I personally don't know many people who still have cable or watch TV in general.

Abou Sky
08-04-2016, 10:59 AM
I wouldn't say painful it's decent football compared to top leagues... What I'm thinking is it's that football is a "great day out" for the family and TFC games are an experience (us southenders bring something NO other sport can) so when we go on the road the avg family dosnt always pay attention whilst still being a fan they arnt a supporter like most of us on here who follow the team any possible way we can they'd rather watch the highlights pack to participate in banter .. And that's the few that do

i think ink as football grows in Canada our numbers will grow

But look at the numbers that EPL gets at 8am

People wake up early to watch the games. Pubs have EPL breakfast buffets here.

People like soccer here, but I couldn't make it to the DC game and was watching on TV and I was wincing at the quality of play from DC.

There is a lot of good soccer played in MLS, but I would say that on any weekend, maybe 25% of games are worth watching if it isn't your team and a lot of the time, you have no idea which 25% will be good. :p

OgtheDim
08-04-2016, 11:09 AM
There's also a lot of crap baseball, NFL, NHL and CFL games that people don't watch unless its their team. The difference is decades of people getting used to a product and being willing to watch anything because its their game. That develops enough to get a large enough crowd to make it worth the network's while to cover other teams.


I know darn well MLS can be dumpster level but ....damn it...its my dumpster.

I must admit to avoiding SJE, DCU, CBus and Houston whenever they play, but I enjoy watching most of the league.


I think the same thing of the CFL. I avoid Winnipeg and BC but the rest I like watching.

mr k
08-04-2016, 12:44 PM
Agreed.

Right now, I have IPTV but wouldn't mind paying for MLS live if I could watch every TFC game.

I don't have cable and I personally don't know many people who still have cable or watch TV in general.

90% of Canadian households still have cable or related paid tv package. Average Canadian watches about 30 hours of tv/week.

So streaming won't move the ratings today.

And TFC isn't even the most watched football on Canadian tv. Whitecaps have the highest MLS ratings in Canada but still average below 100k. Champions League on weekday afternoons gets 2-4x more. EPL in the mornings get 3-5x more than TFC. Canada women get 2-5x more for friendlies and 25x at least more for WC and Olympics. Likewise for Euros & WC.

Canary10
08-04-2016, 12:56 PM
I think the quality really does matter. EPL is almost always good to watch. It's just so much faster, passing is always bang on, decision making quicker. MLS is like watching teams playing soccer in a bog. CFL is lucky it doesn't really compete with anyone the way MLS has to.

GBV
08-04-2016, 09:34 PM
I think the quality really does matter. EPL is almost always good to watch. It's just so much faster, passing is always bang on, decision making quicker. MLS is like watching teams playing soccer in a bog. CFL is lucky it doesn't really compete with anyone the way MLS has to.

Yet the top teams in the world/Europe are not even in that league.
MLS is always going to be up against it as far as TV "comparison numbers" go. So much quality soccer going on elsewhere and becoming so easily available to watch almost 12 months a year.
CFL games always have two Cancon markets -- and TSN is a whore in its efforts to (try to) get people to watch. The (alleged) viewing numbers I can take or leave ....

Onyx
08-04-2016, 10:15 PM
I think the quality really does matter. EPL is almost always good to watch. It's just so much faster, passing is always bang on, decision making quicker. MLS is like watching teams playing soccer in a bog. CFL is lucky it doesn't really compete with anyone the way MLS has to.

MLS is not complete shit .. i would say mid-League One, houston and chicago upper league Two.
TV money has had a really big impact level of play in Premiership and upper-mid Championship last few years, and it is really good football, no doubt.

ensco
08-04-2016, 10:36 PM
MLS is a minor league and that just doesn't work on TV. It never will. On a good day the soccer can be good, sure, but so what? It's an unimportant league, a backwater. That severely caps the potential.

Same for Euro hockey leagues. And the CFL. The world has changed.

It is a massive missed opportunity for the EPL's senior teams that they stayed in that charming setup and didn't break away and expand to North America in the 90s (or that they don't now). What the eff are they doing with teams in Leicester? Have they not seen what American networks pay big sports leagues? North American EPL teams/games would generate real ratings, literally billions.

Kaz
08-04-2016, 10:39 PM
I just picked up Vmedia (legal) IPTV (yes I know the rep actually pleased with it in Niagara through Cable internet as most issues seem to be with Bell) actually had to pay extra for Sportsnet 360 as it is only included in theme packs.

Honestly though I sadly watched through internet streams that aren't really legal or great quality. MLS live has enough blackouts that It isn't worth it to me to pay for it at $15 a month for just TFC. Next season my choice will be keep the $30 TV package that has TSN and then pay the extra $10 for all the Sportsnet channels or pay $15 a month for MLS Live. It is a tough call. With the TV I'm getting TSN GO and Sportsnet Now as part of the package.. so I can stream in the same places. Though if they do the single Team thing for the whole season I may consider it if the price is right.

I wish Sportsnet and TSN (or one of the two) would bring in some people from Europe to improve the broadcasts.. though honestly there is a world of difference between 2007 watching on CBC (even 2010) and today. The TV product is much better. They need more wide shots. My father said when we watch the Game against LA at Skydome how much more exciting it is live because you see all the off the ball runs happening.

What saddens me is people still say it is boring.. which I don't get.. they watch a 60 minute game take 3.5 hours and think it is exciting, or a 3 hour baseball came where two guys are just playing catch for most of the game but Soccer which is constant action that last 2 hours including pregame and half time with more the 1.5 hours of it actual game play.. and some how it is boring. It seems to me to be as interesting as hockey.. which take 2.5 hours to play a 60 minute game.

I would love to see some goal post cameras and the occasional over pitch shot which we should have the ability to do now.

The other issue is I think there are a lot of North American Fans like me that follow a single team. I rarely watch a game that doesn't involve TFC. This weekend was a oddity in that I watched part of the Portland Game on Fox and part of the Vancouver game on TSN.

TFC games I rarely miss. In fact it is the whole reason I got IPTV (legal and paid for) so that I could watch TFC. And at $30-40 a month I may keep paying for it.. particularly as I don't have to pay for in the off season.

Auzzy
08-05-2016, 12:51 AM
MLS live has enough blackouts that It isn't worth it to me to pay for it at $15 a month for just TFC. Next season my choice will be keep the $30 TV package that has TSN and then pay the extra $10 for all the Sportsnet channels or pay $15 a month for MLS Live. It is a tough call. With the TV I'm getting TSN GO and Sportsnet Now as part of the package.. so I can stream in the same places. Though if they do the single Team thing for the whole season I may consider it if the price is right.

I wish Sportsnet and TSN (or one of the two) would bring in some people from Europe to improve the broadcasts.. though honestly there is a world of difference between 2007 watching on CBC (even 2010) and today. The TV product is much better. They need more wide shots. My father said when we watch the Game against LA at Skydome how much more exciting it is live because you see all the off the ball runs happening.



We haven't had cable since 1999. Yes the MLS Live blackouts on some games are annoying, but it's extremely easy to bypass them, with no extra charge on top of the MLS Live price itself. I haven't missed a TFC game on MLS Live all season. (BTW I'm in the stadium for almost all home games.)

If you buy MLS Live during the preseason, it's $65 for the season, e.g., approx. $8 for month (spread only over the approx. 8 month season).

I agree the MLS broadcasts could be much better. It's amazing how often they zoom into some player after a play, for no important reason, meanwhile missing an important play elsewhere on the pitch. Also some of the announcers are pretty awful.

mr k
08-05-2016, 11:20 AM
MLS is a minor league and that just doesn't work on TV. It never will. On a good day the soccer can be good, sure, but so what? It's an unimportant league, a backwater. That severely caps the potential.

Same for Euro hockey leagues. And the CFL. The world has changed.

It is a massive missed opportunity for the EPL's senior teams that they stayed in that charming setup and didn't break away and expand to North America in the 90s (or that they don't now). What the eff are they doing with teams in Leicester? Have they not seen what American networks pay big sports leagues? North American EPL teams/games would generate real ratings, literally billions.

For this season, in global tv revenues alone, EPL will get about US$11B split by table ranking amongst 20 teams. For comparison, NFL gets about US$7B split equally amongst 32 teams.

Last year, 14 of the 30 top earning football clubs were from the EPL. After 2017, it is likely all 20 EPL teams will be in the top 30. Leicester, then, will be able to outspend any European clubs except Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG & Bayern.

Oldtimer
08-05-2016, 11:34 AM
We haven't had cable since 1999. Yes the MLS Live blackouts on some games are annoying, but it's extremely easy to bypass them, with no extra charge on top of the MLS Live price itself. I haven't missed a TFC game on MLS Live all season. (BTW I'm in the stadium for almost all home games.)

If you buy MLS Live during the preseason, it's $65 for the season, e.g., approx. $8 for month (spread only over the approx. 8 month season).

I agree the MLS broadcasts could be much better. It's amazing how often they zoom into some player after a play, for no important reason, meanwhile missing an important play elsewhere on the pitch. Also some of the announcers are pretty awful.

MLS Live is well worth the $$$, I've had it for years, what a great streaming service. It's especially worthwhile if you want to watch some of our opponent's games.

mistercorporate
08-05-2016, 11:44 AM
MLS Live is well worth the $$$, I've had it for years, what a great streaming service. It's especially worthwhile if you want to watch some of our opponent's games.

And if you know how to get around the blackouts it's a super deal! ;)

Between MLS Live, Netflix and a British TV streaming package (yes, they have American shows on it too), who needs cable! Cheaper and better.

Kaz
08-05-2016, 12:19 PM
My only issue with the black outs is the same issue I have with using the streams. I have a minor Compulsion with honesty.. so VPNs and streams are difficult. Which is why I did what I did to get around them.

Sadly I can't get to every game.. lately it has been one or two home games a season. Might get to one in September this year.. might not be till October. I miss living in the GTA and getting to 6 or 7 games a season.

I'm covered for the rest of the year I enjoy watching on the TV again. I had Cable all of last season and picked up legal IPTV again in July so I'm covered. My only issue with IPTV is there seems to be a 10-30second delay in the broadcast so I sometimes will check a stat on the MLS site and find we scored just before it happens.. not a huge deal though.

I like having so many options... just wish it wasn't on SN360. Stupid channel.

Onyx
08-06-2016, 12:14 PM
The issue about ratings is that the media has no way of judging interest in any sport apart from TV (and radio) ratings. There has been a jump in TFC media coverage in the last 3 seasons. But will that continue if the TV ratings don't increase?

E.g. How long will Rogers put money into a twice weekly podcast on Fan590, and have a guy spending 1/2 his time on the team (Riccio)?

The demographics of soccer in this city are excellent - supporters are the target market for advertisers. And the fan base is passionate about all the details going on with the team, and devours all media involving TFC. There just isn't enough of people like us, but who don't go to games.

This doesn't affect TFC due to media ownership, but i wonder if TSN is going to renew their MLS deal. We should have heard something by now, I pretty sure the deal expires end of season.

OgtheDim
08-06-2016, 03:19 PM
There is another wrinkle.

MLS Live was supposed to die in the States before 2015 and in Canada before 2016. All games were supposed to be on ESPN GO only. Didn't happen (never heard a story why). Somebody should ask thegoalkeeper on twitter.

I would not be surprised if in 2017 the 3 Canadian teams sell a digital package with choice of 1 team, 3 teams and/or whatever MLS Live becomes in the States. I could see them raising the price significantly to about $99. I would hope they would offer a deal to SSH's but neither of those companies believe in giving content for free.

OgtheDim
08-07-2016, 04:06 PM
Ratings and coverage Discussion by the Goalkeeper


https://twitter.com/ProvinceWeber/status/762387022036086784


https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762388700282126336

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762388907753431040

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762389293876862976

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762389426504921088

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762390602583511040

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762391150573547521

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762391295184793600

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762391565662883840

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/762392115720679424

ag futbol
08-07-2016, 06:35 PM
I mean rather than just a cheque the league should be looking for a solid partner that helps grow their product. Focus on growing the future pie and quit getting stuck in the present.

Ratings are bad but I'd call MLS / TSN's joint effort on what we've seen to date as poor. The TFC game last week was preceded by CFL pre-game coverage (boo). Time slots for everyone but the whitecaps are all over the board and it's hard to be a fan on TV. They need to make watching a low thought decision with ample reminders and analytical coverage that has actual depth.

CBC makes a lot of sense due to the breadth of audience but MLSE would hate that to the n'th degree.

TFC07
08-07-2016, 06:43 PM
Problem with CBC is that they want games to be played on afternoons only. That is a big problem given hot weather which is making it harder for people to attend and enjoy games.

I personally wish MLS just setup online app for people to watch games so we can avoid this nonsense from TSN.

ManUtd4ever
08-07-2016, 06:58 PM
I would like to see TFC broadcasts on TSN's main channel on a consistent basis before drawing definitive conclusions. I think the potential is there to average 200K. Sportsnet One is not a true gauge of the ratings potential.

Onyx
08-07-2016, 07:13 PM
I would like to see TFC broadcasts on TSN's main channel on a consistent basis before drawing definitive conclusions. I think the potential is there to average 200K. Sportsnet One is not a true gauge of the ratings potential.

Given that TSN is looking at dropping MLS, i think we should be happy with what we have.
I assume this shouldn't impact TFC as their games are obligated to be shown on one of the Sportsnet or TSN channels like the raptors in 50/50 fashion, just no impact, whitecap games, or espn games.

I doubt CBC would be interested, didn't they publicly announce they were getting out of the pro sports business

ag futbol
08-07-2016, 07:19 PM
Problem with CBC is that they want games to be played on afternoons only. That is a big problem given hot weather which is making it harder for people to attend and enjoy games.

I personally wish MLS just setup online app for people to watch games so we can avoid this nonsense from TSN.
Well afternoons until the nhl is out of the picture. Otherwise, total package is not that bad.

CBC announced a lot of things that we're primary a result of having their funding cut to the bone. A new government changes the picture over there.

OgtheDim
08-07-2016, 07:21 PM
Given that TSN is looking at dropping MLS, ..


If you follow the tweets above you see that's not true.

ensco
08-07-2016, 07:30 PM
I think people are drawing the wrong lessons from the NBC deal for MLS. That deal is a function of having so many networks in the US, not any natural interest level. Frankly, NBC seems to use MLS often as filler around its EPL commitments.

There is no out of region interest in minor league anything in this market, and saying "we can get 5 UEFA games at once, why not MLS" is talking apples and oranges. If there were interest in minor league sports, somebody would have packaged up the Calder Cup or Elitserien championships long ago. There is no big reason to do a national TV deal.

MLS should cut its best deal market by market in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Local players away from Bell or Rogers might compete for games.

OgtheDim
08-07-2016, 07:37 PM
I think people are drawing the wrong lessons from the NBC deal for MLS. That deal is a function of having so many networks in the US, not any natural interest level. Frankly, NBC seems to use MLS often as filler around its EPL commitments.
....

NBC doesn't have the contract for MLS anymore.

ensco
08-07-2016, 07:42 PM
NBC doesn't have the contract for MLS anymore.

Brain cramp.

ESPN uses MLS as filler, same point. Look at their start times, heavy dose of Saturday 10pm, Sunday 12 noon, Sunday 5pm...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/01/07/2016-national-tv-schedule

OgtheDim
08-07-2016, 07:47 PM
MLS Games on Sunday have been 90% 3 or 5 pm on ESPN and then 7 on Fox. The league likes this as it creates a go to time. Just like they have Univision on Fridays.

Lets face it though, every sport on TV down there is filler between College Football and NFL seasons.

ensco
08-07-2016, 08:02 PM
MLS Games on Sunday have been 90% 3 or 5 pm on ESPN and then 7 on Fox. The league likes this as it creates a go to time. Just like they have Univision on Fridays.

Lets face it though, every sport on TV down there is filler between College Football and NFL seasons.

I'd try to get closer to the NHL model, which plays the majority of its games on weeknights, does a very nice job of maximizing local TV in the US, and doesn't give a rat's ass about US national TV.

This silly emphasis on weekend games.... this board is dominated by people who love it, but the cost of this "appointment" theory is massive. It doesn't work for people with other weekend lives (cottages, spouses who don't want to spend their date nights watching that much soccer) ...I mean they are throwing away at least half the market in support of a theory that has only ever worked for the NFL. This market that isn't remotely big enough to support this kind of grandiose parsing. I personally cannot go to or watch live at least 75% of TFC games, and I care.

You need a mix, at least.

Idiotic.

TFC07
08-07-2016, 09:22 PM
I'd try to get closer to the NHL model, which plays the majority of its games on weeknights, does a very nice job of maximizing local TV in the US, and doesn't give a rat's ass about US national TV.

This silly emphasis on weekend games.... this board is dominated by people who love it, but the cost of this "appointment" theory is massive. It doesn't work for people with other weekend lives (cottages, spouses who don't want to spend their date nights watching that much soccer) ...I mean they are throwing away at least half the market in support of a theory that has only ever worked for the NFL. This market that isn't remotely big enough to support this kind of grandiose parsing. I personally cannot go to or watch live at least 75% of TFC games, and I care.

You need a mix, at least.

Idiotic.


I disagree about weekend games.

I find majority of TFC fans prefer Saturday night games over weeknight games where most of us probably be tried from work and don't want to come to downtown which takes up a lot of time to get there and getting back home. If you compare our attendance (and even Blue Jays), weekend games always beat weeknight game attendance.

I think people shouldn't compare what's going on in the States since our sporting culture is different. Canadians for most part are use to going or watching sports on Saturday night than any other day thanks to hockey.

OgtheDim
08-08-2016, 06:11 AM
This silly emphasis on weekend games.... this board is dominated by people who love it, but the cost of this "appointment" theory is massive. It doesn't work for people with other weekend lives (cottages, spouses who don't want to spend their date nights watching that much soccer) ...I mean they are throwing away at least half the market in support of a theory that has only ever worked for the NFL. This market that isn't remotely big enough to support this kind of grandiose parsing. I personally cannot go to or watch live at least 75% of TFC games, and I care.

You need a mix, at least.

Idiotic.


So I take it nobody goes to the cottage who watches CFL?

This is stretching.


The issues here for TSN is MLS doesn't get as many eyeballs for the $ spent as putting CFL on all their CRTC mandated to be regional channels at the same time. They are happy about increased ratings to the 800K area for CFL but those were over a million within the last few years. So TSN is going to put the CFL on everything it can in order to build back up its summer cash cow.

Pookie
08-08-2016, 06:24 AM
I think people are drawing the wrong lessons from the NBC deal for MLS. That deal is a function of having so many networks in the US, not any natural interest level. Frankly, NBC seems to use MLS often as filler around its EPL commitments.

There is no out of region interest in minor league anything in this market, and saying "we can get 5 UEFA games at once, why not MLS" is talking apples and oranges. If there were interest in minor league sports, somebody would have packaged up the Calder Cup or Elitserien championships long ago. There is no big reason to do a national TV deal.

MLS should cut its best deal market by market in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Local players away from Bell or Rogers might compete for games.

Another difference between US and Canadian TV deals is that the US deal (NBC and now ESPN, Fox Univision) allows for the broadcast of US national team events for men and women's teams annually.

I'd gladly take what we have now over GoalTV

Pookie
08-08-2016, 06:34 AM
I disagree about weekend games.

I find majority of TFC fans prefer Saturday night games over weeknight games where most of us probably be tried from work and don't want to come to downtown which takes up a lot of time to get there and getting back home. If you compare our attendance (and even Blue Jays), weekend games always beat weeknight game attendance.

I think people shouldn't compare what's going on in the States since our sporting culture is different. Canadians for most part are use to going or watching sports on Saturday night than any other day thanks to hockey.

One difference though is that the Jays weekend games are typically 1:30 starts. TFC can't do that as they would be going up against the Jays.

I think he has a point on weekend games. I gave up my seasons for this very reason.

Folks always say TFC is a younger demographic. Eventually, you get married and have kids. With kids sports we couldn't get to the games and long standing STHs know you couldn't give away your TFC ticket.

So you are stuck buying games in bulk you can't get to and can't sell. Dumb financial move. If I can't go because I am busy, I clearly can't watch either.

With the Jays, you have a Saturday or Sunday option. So if booked Saturday, just go Sunday. Baseball also has fantastic radio coverage which allows you to follow the game if you are on the road or spending time between kids tournament games.

Soccer isnt there yet.

OgtheDim
08-08-2016, 06:45 AM
Lots of families at evening TFC games on Saturdays. Midweek - not so much. If anything I think the family quotient is going up from what it was.

More younger families then I see at CFL games, FWIW.

ensco
08-08-2016, 08:13 AM
The conversation is about how to get TV ratings. They are disenfranchising a number of potential fan groups by playing games only on Saturday nights. The CFL most certainly does not do that, for some very good reasons. I think the idea that you can create MLS appointment viewing on Saturday nights in the hockey off season is basically DOA, without needing to resort to big involved thought processes or data analysis. They draw flies on TV now, and the problem isn't that successful sports TV properties have to train people to only watch stuff habitually at a given time - that is true for decades old legacy sports programming, but today, the TV market is 100% moving away from that.

I think looking around and saying "there's lots of families here, what's the problem" is not the way to assess this. They are giving tickets away to kids teams at big discounts (I am aware of a couple of instances of teams getting tickets for $5). They draw less than 50K on TV, it's all you need to know.

I am not suggesting all weeknight games. I get that there are many different components to the fan base. I also get that a bunch of 1pm games in the summer doesn't work either, I have been blown out at more than one of those.

A mix of Saturday nights, Sunday nights and Monday nights would address this. Also they need to reconsider having some 4pm starts in April/May/June/September/October. It's not that big a change.

ManUtd4ever
08-08-2016, 08:31 AM
Saturday nights are a better draw at the gate. On television, it's always going to be an uphill battle, especially during the summer months. However, this is the first season wherein TFC games have been scheduled with a semblance of consistency. It needs time to be evaluated, and more importantly, better exposure on television. There are many potential viewers within TFC's target audience that don't even have access to channels such as Sportsnet One.

OgtheDim
08-08-2016, 08:34 AM
My point about kids was about Pookie's comment about attendance being hurt by the switch to Saturday nights. Families are there (no I'm not talking soccer teams). So, no, the Saturday night games are not hurting attendance. If anything, the consistency of the night is driving more people. I.e. Its not just people in their 20's and 50's+ going to games.

FWIW the 4pm starts were considered atmosphere killers and that's why that change was made. Seems to have been successful. Given ratings are so poor (almost as many people in the ground as watching on TV), that priority makes sense right now. As has been stated before, build from atmosphere out.

Ultimately, chasing ratings for soccer is pointless. People crow about EPL but it gets numbers barely better then TFC right now - 50K a game. If its not the World Cup or Euro's or the Women's NT, its not getting the numbers. Chasing that by rearranging start times is pointless as there just isn't the market.

Fort York Redcoat
08-08-2016, 08:39 AM
My point about kids was about Pookie's comment about attendance being hurt by the switch to Saturday nights. Families are there (no I'm not talking soccer teams). So, no, the Saturday night games are not hurting attendance. If anything, the consistency of the night is driving more people. I.e. Its not just people in their 20's and 50's+ going to games.

FWIW the 4pm starts were considered atmosphere killers and that's why that change was made. Seems to have been successful. Given ratings are so poor (almost as many people in the ground as watching on TV), that priority makes sense right now. As has been stated before, build from atmosphere out.

Ultimately, chasing ratings for soccer is pointless. People crow about EPL but it gets numbers barely better then TFC right now - 50K a game. If its not the World Cup or Euro's or the Women's NT, its not getting the numbers. Chasing that by rearranging start times is pointless as there just isn't the market.

I'm bias on the start time but I expect that it will only be another season before the "Match under the lights" becomes less of an attraction. This year has probably seen the most consistency in start times, though, which helps grow the popularity. Consistency is better for tv, too, but I don't know how the start time affects.

ManUtd4ever
08-08-2016, 09:54 AM
I'm bias on the start time but I expect that it will only be another season before the "Match under the lights" becomes less of an attraction. This year has probably seen the most consistency in start times, though, which helps grow the popularity. Consistency is better for tv, too, but I don't know how the start time affects.

I think TSN should make an effort to brand the product similar to the HNIC format. Broadcast a doubleheader every Saturday night involving the Canadian clubs. TFC followed by Vancouver on the main channel, Montreal on RDS.

I think ratings would gradually increase if the format was consistent.

Fort York Redcoat
08-08-2016, 11:05 AM
I think TSN should make an effort to brand the product similar to the HNIC format. Broadcast a doubleheader every Saturday night involving the Canadian clubs. TFC followed by Vancouver on the main channel, Montreal on RDS.

I think ratings would gradually increase if the format was consistent.

And then when HNIC actually starts they go head to head? Ballsy.

Pint
08-08-2016, 11:39 AM
And then when HNIC actually starts they go head to head? Ballsy.

I've always thought in hockey season TFC would be a good lead into the 630 show start for HNIC and maybe have vancouver play at 730 eastern to lead into the Canucks/other west coast NHL teams.

Outside of NHL/Leafs season have TFC take over the 730 slot. It works with our weather here as early and late you want a little mid day warmth and during the summer we avoid the direct heat of the day.

mistercorporate
08-08-2016, 11:40 AM
And then when HNIC actually starts they go head to head? Ballsy.

No problem, even if ratings drop during the later part of the season, they'll have a taste and it will become a tradition for those who are interested. Soccer is our summer game.

Onyx
08-08-2016, 11:51 AM
I think TSN should make an effort to brand the product similar to the HNIC format. Broadcast a doubleheader every Saturday night involving the Canadian clubs. TFC followed by Vancouver on the main channel, Montreal on RDS.

I think ratings would gradually increase if the format was consistent.

problem is that airtime is already taken by higher rated programming on tsn

Canary10
08-08-2016, 11:56 AM
My point about kids was about Pookie's comment about attendance being hurt by the switch to Saturday nights. Families are there (no I'm not talking soccer teams). So, no, the Saturday night games are not hurting attendance. If anything, the consistency of the night is driving more people. I.e. Its not just people in their 20's and 50's+ going to games.

FWIW the 4pm starts were considered atmosphere killers and that's why that change was made. Seems to have been successful. Given ratings are so poor (almost as many people in the ground as watching on TV), that priority makes sense right now. As has been stated before, build from atmosphere out.

Ultimately, chasing ratings for soccer is pointless. People crow about EPL but it gets numbers barely better then TFC right now - 50K a game. If its not the World Cup or Euro's or the Women's NT, its not getting the numbers. Chasing that by rearranging start times is pointless as there just isn't the market.

It does hurt attendance for me, and I suspect anyone with young kids. I've missed half the games live because of the 7:30 start time. My daughter's bed time is 8:30, so I just can't go at the time very often. A mix would be better in my opinion.

mistercorporate
08-08-2016, 12:48 PM
It does hurt attendance for me, and I suspect anyone with young kids. I've missed half the games live because of the 7:30 start time. My daughter's bed time is 8:30, so I just can't go at the time very often. A mix would be better in my opinion.

A regular time is better for building attendance, to be honest. I've organized various events at various venues in the past and found consistency (once you find a popular time slot) is the best way to build attendance over time for the same event. If you just do the same event with the same qualitative consistency at the same time a few times a year, you'll double your attendance by the following year, all things considered. You invest in the event and improve it over time? The skies the limit!

Yohan
08-08-2016, 01:39 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/09/sports/soccer/japan-media-deal-could-raise-jleague-soccer-profile.html?ref=soccer&_r=0

Sort of related. J League is getting 2 billion over 10 yrs for their media rights

Richard
08-08-2016, 01:48 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/09/sports/soccer/japan-media-deal-could-raise-jleague-soccer-profile.html?ref=soccer&_r=0

Sort of related. J League is getting 2 billion over 10 yrs for their media rights

Wow. MLS cant even reach 100M on shorter deal yet alone 200M annually.

Onyx
08-08-2016, 02:02 PM
Wow. MLS cant even reach 100M on shorter deal yet alone 200M annually.

MLS rights aren't worth much. Most of the $90M is the value USMNT rights and women's rights too, not MLS.
Good news for the league is ~$50m trickles down to MLS clubs.

notthesun
08-08-2016, 03:08 PM
MLS rights aren't worth much. Most of the $90M is the value USMNT rights and women's rights too, not MLS.
Good news for the league is ~$50m trickles down to MLS clubs.

Speaking of which, Marc Weber (Whitecaps beat reporter) had a series of tweets last night saying that talks between TSN and MLS on renewing the TV deal weren't going swimmingly. He basically said from what he's heard, the feeling is that they will probably get the deal done, but TSN won't exactly be forking over the cash to land the rights.

Richard
08-08-2016, 05:08 PM
Does anyone know what happened to the Sky Sports broadcasts, I haven't seen them do a TFC game in a while. Did they not pickup TFC this season? I enjoyed them quite a bit.

OgtheDim
08-08-2016, 07:18 PM
IIRC, SKY covered almost every TFC game in July.

http://www.skysports.com/mls-fixtures

ensco
08-09-2016, 06:57 AM
Reading up on that Japanese deal... that group owns a lot of interesting online properties (including the Bundeliga online rights in Germany, and goal.com). They want to be a hybrid of MLBAM and Netflix of sports, and have picked Germany, Switzerland, and Japan as targets because there are relatively welcoming OTT market regulatory frameworks there.

Given the stranglehold Bell and Rogers have on sports and telecom regulation in this country, this opportunity won't be explored until it's been harvested/developed for 10 years elsewhere.

We have an innovation problem in this country, and this is why. We have allowed behemoths to crowd out even the possibility of startups in many sectors.

The "Netflix" part of this is interesting. Everyone is struggling with the decline of appointment television.

C.Ronaldo
08-09-2016, 08:54 AM
Reading up on that Japanese deal... that group owns a lot of interesting online properties (including the Bundeliga online rights in Germany, and goal.com). They want to be a hybrid of MLBAM and Netflix of sports, and have picked Germany, Switzerland, and Japan as targets because there are relatively welcoming OTT market regulatory frameworks there.

Given the stranglehold Bell and Rogers have on sports and telecom regulation in this country, this opportunity won't be explored until it's been harvested/developed for 10 years elsewhere.

We have an innovation problem in this country, and this is why. We have allowed behemoths to crowd out even the possibility of startups in many sectors.

The "Netflix" part of this is interesting. Everyone is struggling with the decline of appointment television.

the great thing about the internet is that people will get it elsewhere (legally or not) if you don't offer it.

either give up your massive margins or die. I have no problem with hollywood not pumping out $100m films, because people like those behind blair witch will figure out how to do it for $5k

The same goes for sport, I gave up on hockey because it got too expensive and I don't get TSN.

you know why women's roller derby is still around, because its cheap live entertainment

BRING IT BACK!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP6xT_ThxdI&feature=youtu.be

OgtheDim
08-09-2016, 09:05 AM
...

you know why women's roller derby is still around, because its cheap live entertainment

BRING IT BACK!

January through May up at Downsview - apparently (yes I googled)

http://torontorollerderby.com/

C.Ronaldo
08-09-2016, 09:49 AM
January through May up at Downsview - apparently (yes I googled)

http://torontorollerderby.com/

supporters section seating?

Pint
08-09-2016, 10:02 AM
supporters section seating?

It seams like everyone outside of the big 3 are trying to imitate TFC supporter sections.

Argos, Raps 905 even marlies had something this past year.

mistercorporate
08-12-2016, 06:13 AM
TFC getting increased coverage after the Olympics and the Jays due to their run of form lately:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfchomecoming.html

Curtis Larsson is also doing a stellar job in the Toronto Sun. We're now officially the 2nd team of the Summer for Toronto and have the second highest total attendance in Canada and Ontario:

20 x 27,000 so far = 540,000 (not including playoff games).

shwade
08-12-2016, 09:41 AM
TFC getting increased coverage after the Olympics and the Jays due to their run of form lately:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfchomecoming.html

Curtis Larsson is also doing a stellar job in the Toronto Sun. We're now officially the 2nd team of the Summer for Toronto and have the second highest total attendance in Canada and Ontario:

20 x 27,000 so far = 540,000 (not including playoff games).

That article is from May?
The Star never has coverage on TFC, it's like they're actively trying to bury them.

OgtheDim
08-12-2016, 09:56 AM
That article is from May?
The Star never has coverage on TFC, it's like they're actively trying to bury them.

Uh...no.

Star has a reporter covering the games and the team - Laura Armstrong. 3 articles on TFC this month alone.

shwade
08-12-2016, 10:32 AM
Uh...no.

Star has a reporter covering the games and the team - Laura Armstrong. 3 articles on TFC this month alone.

Wow 3 whole articles that you have to really dig for to find.

shwade
08-12-2016, 10:35 AM
Not on par with the sun (though that's understandable) but even the Globe has better coverage.

TFC Tifoso
08-12-2016, 10:36 AM
Uh...no.

Star has a reporter covering the games and the team - Laura Armstrong. 3 articles on TFC this month alone.

and that is still incredibly poor compared to Larson/Toronto Sun's coverage which is more or less daily.....as far as TFC goes, The Sun is ahead by miles on any other media outlet in the city, and they've been doing it even in the lean years.

Areathrasher
08-12-2016, 10:57 AM
The Star had a dedicated online section + pullout in the print version for the home opener. It was pretty good.

Armstrong is their dedicated TFC person but she's been pulled thin covering other stuff recently.

The Globe doesn't have anyone on the TFC beat. It just buys Davidson's articles from the Canadian Press.

OgtheDim
08-12-2016, 11:56 AM
Just a bit of a reminder - we get very good coverage compared to most MLS teams. I remember when the Star, just 3 years ago, would not have anybody covering TFC.

My biggest beef with the Star is none of the current crop of sports columnists give a shit about soccer but will wax eloquently about the minutiae of Bball or Hockey or the Jays. Yes, I know, the game doesn't match their moral code...get over it. 27000 people are going to these games - its a freaking event. And there is details, not minutiae, but just standard details that are not being covered because nobody is bringing up issues like they do with the Leafs, Raptors or Jays.

E.g. the issues surrounding whether there is an extension for Vanney should have been something that not only Larson thought of. That's the sort of thing that if you have 5+ people covering a team + talk discussions, somebody is going to bring up.

BTW, I think Cathal Kelley felt betrayed by Lieweke so he isn't even bothering to put out a column once every 3 months on the team anymore.

TFC/Everton
08-12-2016, 11:59 AM
Just a bit of a reminder - we get very good coverage compared to most MLS teams. I remember when the Star, just 3 years ago, would not have anybody covering TFC.

My biggest beef with the Star is none of the current crop of sports columnists give a shit about soccer but will wax eloquently about the minutiae of Bball or Hockey or the Jays. Yes, I know, the game doesn't match their moral code...get over it. 27000 people are going to these games - its a freaking event. And there is details, not minutiae, but just standard details that are not being covered because nobody is bringing up issues like they do with the Leafs, Raptors or Jays.

E.g. the issues surround whether there is an extension for Vanney should have been something that not only Larson thought of.

Larson busts his ass to get stories and we are lucky to have him covering TFC. Laura Armstrong on the other hand doesn't really care about TFC or MLS. It's a shame the Star has her as their soccer reporter.

Onyx
08-12-2016, 03:18 PM
Larson busts his ass to get stories and we are lucky to have him covering TFC. Laura Armstrong on the other hand doesn't really care about TFC or MLS. It's a shame the Star has her as their soccer reporter.

postmedia is losing tons of money, soon will be owned by debtholders and then bankruptcy, local beat reporter will likely disappear in a few years outside the leafs. be happy what you have because it will soon be gone. You will only have guys the do radio/online covering the team like John Molinaro. hopefully, larson gets a role like this when the axe falls.

Red CB Toronto
08-12-2016, 03:19 PM
Larson busts his ass to get stories and we are lucky to have him covering TFC. Laura Armstrong on the other hand doesn't really care about TFC or MLS. It's a shame the Star has her as their soccer reporter.

In reality TFC for her is likely just a stop on the train. We don't for sure but this could very likely be 1-2 year thing for her and she moves on to another beat, whatever else may come her way.

You really can't compare the two sports departments, the Star through layoffs and just the changing times got down to 7-8 writers at one point. The Sun is just a completly different beast with a commited sports editor.

mistercorporate
08-12-2016, 04:52 PM
Larson busts his ass to get stories and we are lucky to have him covering TFC. Laura Armstrong on the other hand doesn't really care about TFC or MLS. It's a shame the Star has her as their soccer reporter.

Larson is awesome! Let's all make an effort to click on his articles and support him on his Twitter feed too (which by the way is excellent).

Onyx
08-30-2016, 07:09 PM
saw that De Vos is leaving TSN.

mr k
08-30-2016, 07:54 PM
116k for TFC vs Impact. For an all Canadian match up, cracking 100k is the minimum standard. Doesn't include French viewers but it is on the low end given it was basically on all TSN regional channels and there was no Jays or CFL going against it.

It was not even the most watched footy on Canadian tv - Manchester United & Hull City got 215k and doesn't include any viewers on NBC.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--no-post-olympics-slump-for-jays-or-cfl-224012426.html

OgtheDim
08-31-2016, 06:19 AM
Yup...baby steps.

ensco
08-31-2016, 06:42 AM
116K is not bad for a summer Saturday night.

There is a reason they weren't up against anything - July and August on a Saturday night is Death Valley in TV Land, and is one of the reasons I don't understand the current scheduling strategy.

I bet that game on a Tuesday or Thursday night would have had 250K (ie similar to what the playoff game got)

ensco
08-31-2016, 12:14 PM
I just want to add that this is throwing money away. The only reason to accept 116K on Saturday night instead of 250K on Thursday night is because you believe that this is part of a growth strategy that will see the Saturday night numbers grow much faster (based on some sort of appointment viewing strategy)

But why does anyone believe that? Nobody has ever watched TV on summer Saturday nights, ever, for anything. Just as importantly, the TV market is moving away from appointment viewing.

TFC and MLS have all been sold a ridiculous story around a low probability brand startegy that is consigning them to the dregs of the market, and is costing them real money.

Onyx
08-31-2016, 01:30 PM
116k for TFC vs Impact. For an all Canadian match up, cracking 100k is the minimum standard. Doesn't include French viewers but it is on the low end given it was basically on all TSN regional channels and there was no Jays or CFL going against it.

It was not even the most watched footy on Canadian tv - Manchester United & Hull City got 215k and doesn't include any viewers on NBC.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--no-post-olympics-slump-for-jays-or-cfl-224012426.html

on a positive note its 4x what they usually get ... hopefully those fans stick around

Richard
08-31-2016, 01:36 PM
on a positive note its 4x what they usually get ... hopefully those fans stick around

Which is hilarious and disconcerting. Just look at this from an archived thread from here back in 2010.

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/archive/index.php/t-22952.html



Saturday July 24, 2010
Toronto FC vs FC Dallas
3:47pm/et
CBC National = 153,000 (abreviated pre-game & match)

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday July 17, 2010
Philadelphia Union vs Toronto FC
3:30pm/et
CBC National = 132,000 (pre-game & match)

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday July 10, 2010
Toronto FC vs Colorado Rapids
12:00pm/et
CBC National = 215,000
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Thursday July 1, 2010
Toronto FC vs Houston Dynamo
7:00pm/et
SportsNet Ontario = 58,000
SportsNet Pacific = 17,000
Total Audience = 75,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday June 26, 2010
Toronto FC vs Los Angele Galaxy
7:30pm/et (pre-game & game)
SportsNet Ontario = 123,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday June 5, 2010
Toronto FC vs Kansas City
3:30pm/et (pre-game & game)
CBC National = 193,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Wednesday June 2nd, 2010
Toronto FC vs Vancouver
8pm/et
SportsNet East = 4,000
SportsNet West = 4,000
---------------------------------
Total Audience = 8,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday May 29th, 2010
San Jose vs Toronto FC
10pm/et
SportsNet Ontario = 31,000
SportsNet Pacific = 27,000
---------------------------------
Total Audience = 58,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday May 22nd, 2010
Toronto FC vs New England
1pm/et
CBC National = 134,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Wednesday May 19th, 2010
Vancouver vs Toronto FC
11pm/et (tape delay)
SportsNet East = 2,000
SportsNet West = 22,000
---------------------------------
Total Audience = 24,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday May 15th, 2010
Los Angeles vs Toronto FC
10:30pm/et
SportsNet Ontario = 73,000
SportsNet Pacific = 27,000
---------------------------------
Total Audience = 100,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Wednesday May 12th, 2010
Montreal vs Toronto FC
8pm/et
SportsNet East = 11,000
SportsNet West = 31,000
---------------------------------
Total Audience = 42,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday May 8th, 2010
Toronto FC vs Chicago
3:30pm/et
CBC National = 155,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Saturday May 1st, 2010
Real Salt Lake vs Toronto FC
9pm/et
SportsNet Ontario = 22,000
SportsNet Pacific = 3,000
---------------------------------
Total Audience = 25,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Wednesday April 28th, 2010
Toronto FC vs Montreal
8pm/et
SportsNet East = 33,000
SportsNet West = 22,000
---------------------------------
Total Audience = 55,000

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Sunday April 25th, 2010
Toronto FC vs Seattle
2pm/et
CBC National = 188,000



A game versus Chivas back in 2010 got 134K viewers.

Bonkers. Maddening that TFC doesn't go back to CBC.

Red CB Toronto
08-31-2016, 02:00 PM
I am am actually shaking my head for that game that only got 8k.


Which is hilarious and disconcerting. Just look at this from an archived thread from here back in 2010.

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/archive/index.php/t-22952.html



A game versus Chivas back in 2010 got 134K viewers.

Bonkers. Maddening that TFC doesn't go back to CBC.

OgtheDim
08-31-2016, 02:20 PM
No way in hades that a Bogers owned MLSE product goes back to CBC without it being some sort of HNIC style desperation deal by the CBC - and they arn't making those anymore.

Red CB Toronto
08-31-2016, 02:22 PM
I just want to add that this is throwing money away. The only reason to accept 116K on Saturday night instead of 250K on Thursday night is because you believe that this is part of a growth strategy that will see the Saturday night numbers grow much faster (based on some sort of appointment viewing strategy)

But why does anyone believe that? Nobody has ever watched TV on summer Saturday nights, ever, for anything. Just as importantly, the TV market is moving away from appointment viewing.

TFC and MLS have all been sold a ridiculous story around a low probability brand startegy that is consigning them to the dregs of the market, and is costing them real money.

Who do you think is the party at the table pushing this so called growth strategy? This Saturday night thing has to be all about TV as opposed to the gate. Where the gate has not really been affected, we have actually seen growth on that front, gone are the days of smoke and mirrors game that was played with the announced attendance.

Onyx
08-31-2016, 02:30 PM
I just want to add that this is throwing money away. The only reason to accept 116K on Saturday night instead of 250K on Thursday night is because you believe that this is part of a growth strategy that will see the Saturday night numbers grow much faster (based on some sort of appointment viewing strategy)

But why does anyone believe that? Nobody has ever watched TV on summer Saturday nights, ever, for anything. Just as importantly, the TV market is moving away from appointment viewing.

TFC and MLS have all been sold a ridiculous story around a low probability brand startegy that is consigning them to the dregs of the market, and is costing them real money.



This was supposed to be biggest TV night of the season. Its rivalry week. TSN opened up its saturday night schedule. This one night was designed for TV by TSN when the other leagues are off. TSN and the league have to be disappointed.

Pookie
08-31-2016, 02:34 PM
This was supposed to be biggest TV night of the season. Its rivalry week. TSN opened up its saturday night schedule. This one night was designed for TV by TSN when the other leagues are off. TSN and the league have to be disappointed.

Agreed but did the ratings include RDS coverage and provide a combined number?

ensco
08-31-2016, 02:52 PM
Who do you think is the party at the table pushing this so called growth strategy? This Saturday night thing has to be all about TV as opposed to the gate. Where the gate has not really been affected, we have actually seen growth on that front, gone are the days of smoke and mirrors game that was played with the announced attendance.

Business guys at TFC/MLSE. Maybe Leiweke originally. There have been stories in Sports Business Daily, and publications like that, about TFC's TV "relaunch" in 2015 with a Saturday night appointment strategy

ensco
08-31-2016, 02:55 PM
No way in hades that a Bogers owned MLSE product goes back to CBC without it being some sort of HNIC style desperation deal by the CBC - and they arn't making those anymore.

TFC got 500K on CBC in May 2007 for a Saturday afternoon game that fed into HNIC playoffs.

Amazing to think about the excitement/novelty value that was thrown away in the bad old days.

Red CB Toronto
08-31-2016, 04:05 PM
Business guys at TFC/MLSE. Maybe Leiweke originally. There have been stories in Sports Business Daily, and publications like that, about TFC's TV "relaunch" in 2015 with a Saturday night appointment strategy

I would have to think with Rogers and Bell ultimately being about tv, this strategy will fall by the wayside at some point. A ratings first approach will be taken. With this Saturday thing it appears advertising dollars are just being left at the doorstep. To be honest where 250-300K could be very attractive to some advertisers they would not even considered it at 80-100K regardless of how discounted the buy would be as it's simply too small time for them.

jabbronies
08-31-2016, 04:53 PM
Which is hilarious and disconcerting. Just look at this from an archived thread from here back in 2010.

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/archive/index.php/t-22952.html



A game versus Chivas back in 2010 got 134K viewers.

Bonkers. Maddening that TFC doesn't go back to CBC.


CBC is essentially free for people to watch. TSN - isn't even in basic cable
With a shit load of people cutting the cord, there are a lot of viewers lost based on that fact alone.

Pookie
08-31-2016, 05:20 PM
CBC is essentially free for people to watch. TSN - isn't even in basic cable
With a shit load of people cutting the cord, there are a lot of viewers lost based on that fact alone.

Except... Jays are exclusively on Sportsnet

Folks cut cords for TFC but not the Jays?

(Argos are exclusively on TSN. Raptors aren't on CBC and the Leafs play all midweek games on one of Sportsnet or TSN. I think all of their ratings are good.)

Pookie
08-31-2016, 05:29 PM
TFC got 500K on CBC in May 2007 for a Saturday afternoon game that fed into HNIC playoffs.

Amazing to think about the excitement/novelty value that was thrown away in the bad old days.

It is.

The interesting question is whether a December MLS final involving TFC could ever get back to that initial excitement level.