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View Full Version : BMO Field, last stadium with FakeTurf?



footyfan
05-16-2008, 12:14 PM
I was just thinking about this. Carl Robinson said on the Soccer Show last night that BMO's turf was miles better than the surface in New York or Real Salt Lake.

However what was not said was that Salt Lake is moving into a new stadium with real grass in October and New York is moving into a stadium with real grass in 2009. Philadelphia is going to have real grass in 2010 and there is talk of possibly bringing in real grass to Seattle's Qwest field in the 2010 season. Houston's stadium has been confirmed to have real grass as well. Montreal has real grass. New England is looking to build a stadium closer to Boston with real grass in the 2010-2012 time frame. Portland's plans would include laying down real grass at PGE park once the baseball team moves out and it is converted to a Soccer Specific Stadium.

What this means is that come 2010 perhaps only Toronto FC and New England will have the fake stuff and come 2012 BMO may be the only MLS stadium that has it.

Just an observation.

Kooper
05-16-2008, 12:27 PM
Enough of this argument. Please go back to the last board to rehash all the old arguments for and against.

ilikemusic
05-16-2008, 12:27 PM
I hope it comes to the point where we are the only team with it.

Something has got to give here. The stadium situation as it stands now simply is not going to last.

giambac
05-16-2008, 12:41 PM
I hope it comes to the point where we are the only team with it.

Something has got to give here. The stadium situation as it stands now simply is not going to last.

Nothing has to give or is going to give. Man I hope we are the last and only satdium with turf. Why do we have to be like everyone else.

Our environment suits a turf. Fuck I man I turne don the LA vs Vancouver game the other night in Edmonton. Well they were plying on grass and dirt. They looked like kangaroos out there with the ball bouncing all over the place. I couldn't watch the game and after 5 minutes I had to to change the channel. It looked so bush league with the field and all.. I also remember watching a Monday night NFL game last year between the Stealers and Dolphins on natural grass. With all the rain and mud the players looked like pigs playing in mud.

Keep the turf and end this bullshit discussion.

Rather than worry about if we will be the only team with grass you should worry whether the MLS will even last another 5-10 years. You talk about city's and stadiums that are putting in grass well that grass won't last long when only 3-4 thousand fans showing up for some of the matches????

dantdot
05-16-2008, 12:42 PM
So you're listening to our podcasts now huh, we know you love TFC, might be time switch your allegiance. As for the turf, MLSE has to pony up and buy out BMO for that to even have a chance.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-16-2008, 12:46 PM
So you're listening to our podcasts now huh, we know you love TFC, might be time switch your allegiance. As for the turf, MLSE has to pony up and buy out BMO for that to even have a chance.

From my understanding its not possible as BMO is part of exhibition place which by law cant be sold (i think it takes something extreme like parliament to strike against it).

Essentially what would have to happen is the CSA would have to pressure local/provincial/national gov to fund grass.
So basically we are fucked.
Fuck you CSA cunts.

TFCREDNWHITE
05-16-2008, 12:49 PM
By 2012 we will install the NEW Generation 7 FieldTurf, which will be even better then what we have now! Our turf right now is TOP of the line!!

ilikemusic
05-16-2008, 01:08 PM
Nothing has to give or is going to give. Man I hope we are the last and only satdium with turf. Why do we have to be like everyone else.




I never said anything of the sort. I think it is perfectly justified to say that BMO Field will probably see some signifficant changes in the next five years.

By the stadium situation I wasnt even referring specifically to the grass/turf issue. I was referring mainly to the real issue that comes before anything dealing with grass/turf or the Argos; that of ownership.

BeachRed
05-16-2008, 01:15 PM
By the stadium situation I wasnt even referring specifically to the grass/turf issue. I was referring mainly to the real issue that comes before anything dealing with grass/turf or the Argos; that of ownership.

And you're right things will change because now there's proof that there are profits to be made off soccer in Toronto and in this city nothing stands in the way of profits (that can be good and bad).

The MLS is looking good for five years from now.

footyfan
05-16-2008, 01:24 PM
Rather than worry about if we will be the only team with grass you should worry whether the MLS will even last another 5-10 years. You talk about city's and stadiums that are putting in grass well that grass won't last long when only 3-4 thousand fans showing up for some of the matches????


Clearly you don't have clue about MLS.

The league is actually more stable now than it ever has been and ceased being in 'danger' in 2004.

And I can't think off hand of any team drawing an average of 3-4,000 fans.

You're ignorant.

footyfan
05-16-2008, 01:27 PM
So you're listening to our podcasts now huh, we know you love TFC, might be time switch your allegiance. As for the turf, MLSE has to pony up and buy out BMO for that to even have a chance.


I've been a listener to the Soccer Show on FAN590 since last year and I listen to the footyshow podcast cause the shows are entertaining. I also listen to Screaming Eagles podcast, The Soccer Show on WJFK and other United radio shows, TV shows, podcasts.

I see you guys as our future greatest rival, New York will always be shit but you guys have the support and ambition to be a force someday so I like to keep an eye on the enemy ;)

GaryJamboTFC
05-16-2008, 01:31 PM
Clearly you don't have clue about MLS.
The league is actually more stable now than it ever has been and ceased being in 'danger' in 2004.
And I can't think off hand of any team drawing an average of 3-4,000 fans.
You're ignorant.

Agree with all your points, especially the last one.

I do think the grass will come in time at BMO.

Laurignano
05-16-2008, 01:41 PM
Agree with all your points, especially the last one.

I do think the grass will come in time at BMO.


I wouldnt be so sure about that...maybe only for important matches.

Dozitwin
05-16-2008, 01:48 PM
Why are we bringing up this arguement again. The turf/grass situation is not going to change as long as the city owns any part for the stadium. If MLSE decide to buy out BMO them we'll talk. Until then all the bitching in the world will not change the pitch. Let it die people.

footyfan
05-16-2008, 01:50 PM
Agree with all your points, especially the last one.

I do think the grass will come in time at BMO.


I hope so. Champions deserve grass and someday soon, you will be Champions (Canada Cup).

alexintoronto
05-16-2008, 01:52 PM
Don't forget the vastly more important Trillium Cup

:D

footyfan
05-16-2008, 01:54 PM
Why are we bringing up this arguement again. The turf/grass situation is not going to change as long as the city owns any part for the stadium. If MLSE decide to buy out BMO them we'll talk. Until then all the bitching in the world will not change the pitch. Let it die people.

You know, both our fans joke about Red Bull being shit(e) but one thing I have to respect is the fact that their fans put pressure on their new owners (Red Bull) to buy out AEG's share of the stadium, meaning they would not have a dorky stage on one end and actually have a world class european-style soccer specific stadium.

Here was the original "MetroStars" stadium" plan
Cookie cutter, high school stadium with a partial roof and a stage ala Toyota Park...
http://governing.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/metrostars_stadium.jpg

and here is Red Bull Park (now under construction)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/goal/posts/redbulls.aerial.533.jpg

We all can learn something from them.

Perhaps when the Argos protest is over, it is time to kick it up a notch to pressure your owners to buy out the city's share of the stadium.

If it can happen in NY with their shit fan base it should be possible in T-dot.

TFCREDNWHITE
05-16-2008, 01:57 PM
I've been a listener to the Soccer Show on FAN590 since last year and I listen to the footyshow podcast cause the shows are entertaining. I also listen to Screaming Eagles podcast, The Soccer Show on WJFK and other United radio shows, TV shows, podcasts.

I see you guys as our future greatest rival, New York will always be shit but you guys have the support and ambition to be a force someday so I like to keep an eye on the enemy ;)


I seriously think you live and work here!! Or you have family here that you visit ALL the time! Hopefully you'll be a TFC fan come the end of may when we beat you like a red headed step-child!!:cool:

giambac
05-16-2008, 01:58 PM
Clearly you don't have clue about MLS.

The league is actually more stable now than it ever has been and ceased being in 'danger' in 2004.

And I can't think off hand of any team drawing an average of 3-4,000 fans.

You're ignorant.

I'd bet you that there are at least 5 teams in the league with less than 2,000 Season tickets sold. Another 5 probaly with leas than 5,000 season ticket sold. The base isn't good for these teams. Hopefully with new stadiums it will increaase their season ticket base.

TFC is the exception to the rule

Look up the #'s and then you will see who is ignorant.

ilikemusic
05-16-2008, 02:00 PM
You know, both our fans joke about Red Bull being shit(e) but one thing I have to respect is the fact that their fans put pressure on their new owners to buy out AEG's share of the stadium, meaning they would not have a dorky stage on one end and actually have a world class european-style soccer specific stadium.

We all can learn something from them.

Perhaps when the Argos protest is over, it is time to kick it up a notch to pressure your owners to buy out the city's share of the stadium.

If it can happen in NY with their shit fan base it should be possible in T-dot.

The stadium being on the Exhibition grounds complicates things.

I think I may have even read in this thread that the City simply cant sell the facility, whether they want to or not.

I really hope that isnt the case. We all know MLSE could pay the city more than it cost to build the thing.

Problem is it is a public facility that seems to be generating revenue for the city.

No sports fan on earth is going to put up a succesful argument for privatization of money making venture by a cash strapped city. The politicians will have none of it, and like it or not, the majority of their constituents could not care less about Toronto FC, soccer, or a 'gameday experience'.

I wish we were in a better situation, but for the time being, the stadium's future as a SSS/city facility/multi-purpose facility is completely up in the air.

Jack
05-16-2008, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't let this hope die just yet.

footyfan
05-16-2008, 02:02 PM
I'd bet you that there are at least 5 teams in the league with less than 2,000 Season tickets sold. Another 5 probaly with leas than 5,000 season ticket sold. The base isn't good for these teams. Hopefully with new stadiums it will increaase their season ticket base.

TFC is the exception to the rule

Look up the #'s and then you will see who is ignorant.


Ignorant, is discounting the fact that 30% of MLS's fan base IN THE USA are hispanic/latino. Culturally they do not buy season tickets but account for large walk-up sales which puts all the averages well over 10,000.

Ignorant is believing TFC is a one-size-fits-all approach to MLS.

Ignorant is believing that season ticket sales are the sole arbiter of profitability of MLS clubs. Would you believe me if I told you that tickets (season or otherwise) account for only 50% of profitability?

GaryJamboTFC
05-16-2008, 02:06 PM
Why are we bringing up this arguement again. The turf/grass situation is not going to change as long as the city owns any part for the stadium. If MLSE decide to buy out BMO them we'll talk. Until then all the bitching in the world will not change the pitch. Let it die people.


Are you coming to my house to stab me in the chest? Because when I'm fucking dead is when I will stop going on about the grass at BMO. You get passion, right? Why would you continue to be happy about almost-real football when you could actually have the real stuff. When BMO has grass, or I'm pushing up daisies, that's when I'll stop pushing for grass at our stadium.

Okay with you?

footyfan
05-16-2008, 02:07 PM
I seriously think you live and work here!! Or you have family here that you visit ALL the time! Hopefully you'll be a TFC fan come the end of may when we beat you like a red headed step-child!!:cool:


Ok. When I was a kid, my parents used to take me to summer vacation in Toronto every year. So I am very familiar with the city and surroundings. Its a lovely place. I think Canada and Toronto gets a bad rep from a lot of my countrymen who never have been there.

In the 90s I used to drive up there for parties and had some friends who live up there. They may even be TFC fans (not sure, haven't heard from them in ages).

I get CBC on my digital box (just found out last week) and so I can watch your news and programs.

I like Toronto but initially looked at your team with bemusement.

Regardless, I am a DC fan for ages now. If your team becomes a force we will be rivals.

Dozitwin
05-16-2008, 02:36 PM
Are you coming to my house to stab me in the chest? Because when I'm fucking dead is when I will stop going on about the grass at BMO. You get passion, right? Why would you continue to be happy about almost-real football when you could actually have the real stuff. When BMO has grass, or I'm pushing up daisies, that's when I'll stop pushing for grass at our stadium.

Okay with you?

Well I hope you enjoy your sad and miserable life then. This arguement has absoluely nothing to do with passion and I at no point did said that I was happy with almost-real football; although the football is real enough, it's the turf that's the issue. This topic has been debated and redebated over and over again and the arguements on each side haven't changed. TFC knows we want real grass and the City of Toronto doesn't care if we want real grass so, as I said, until MLSE buys BMO out right the debate is pointless. Hey man it's your life, if you want to spend the rest of it shouting at a brick wall, have at 'er.

invictusTFC
05-16-2008, 02:38 PM
I've had the pleasure of playing on the BMO field turf and IMO its not all that bad. I've played on natural turfs that were certainly less forgiving. I think that the key is maintenance. Stadium officials cannot allow the field to get compacted.

tempo
05-16-2008, 02:46 PM
Not all TFC fans are for the grass. I am for the turf and community use of the fields.

Red Patch CA
05-16-2008, 02:47 PM
Who picked off the scab on this topic? There is NOTHING new to discuss.

GaryJamboTFC
05-16-2008, 02:54 PM
Well I hope you enjoy you're sad and miserable life then. This arguement has absoluely nothing to do with passion and I at no point did said that I was happy with almost-real football; although the football is real enough, it's the turf that's the issue. This topic has been debated and redebated over and over again and the arguements on each side haven't changed. TFC knows we want real grass and the City of Toronto doesn't care if we want real grass so, as I said, until MLSE buys BMO out right the debate is pointless. Hey man it's your life, if you want to spend the rest of it shouting at a brick wall, have at 'er.

There's nothing sad and miserable about my life, well done jumping to a completely clueless conclusion. I have plenty of energy for the things that matter to me. Your facile summary doesn't touch on all the complexities of the issue, and I grasp all of them, but the pressure will not go away.

Brick walls crumble. See: Berlin.

werewolf
05-16-2008, 02:57 PM
Brick walls crumble. See: Berlin.


Alternately, see China, subsection: Great Wall of.

If we get Grass we need to do it right with the proper installation and care taking. i.e. looks like Anfield as opposed Commonwelath.

Jack
05-16-2008, 03:00 PM
I wouldn't let this hope die just yet.

I repeat.

And this topic is not something we should give up on.

It is important to us.

Tempo, should we be allowed to rent the Rogers Centre to play beer league softball? What about men's league hockey down at the ACC. Public money went into those places too.

:deadhorse:

Rudi
05-16-2008, 03:10 PM
The stadium being on the Exhibition grounds complicates things.

I think I may have even read in this thread that the City simply cant sell the facility, whether they want to or not.
This is the truth of the situation.

The Ex Place lands were given by the provincial gov't to the City on the grounds that the City would never sell, and that they could only use the grounds as "public space".

alexintoronto
05-16-2008, 03:14 PM
This is the truth of the situation.

The Ex Place lands were given by the provincial gov't to the City on the grounds that the City would never sell, and that they could only use the grounds as "public space".


If there were a long term exclusive lease (say 30-40 years) and MLSE agreed to keep the stadium for some public use and any and all soccer teams would that be enough to honour the requirements while still putting in grass?

NateDoGG
05-16-2008, 03:20 PM
fake grass is like having sex with a prostitute, its not the same thing

shwade
05-16-2008, 03:25 PM
That Red Bull park looks amazing...BMO's so shitty and simple.

rocker
05-16-2008, 03:30 PM
That Red Bull park looks amazing...BMO's so shitty and simple.

RB park has changed from the original renderings I hear. let's wait til it's built to see if it's any good.

plus, you have to watch the shite bulls there, so that'll make the stadium suck!

Derko
05-16-2008, 03:31 PM
Can we move on, It seems like every week someone brings Field Turf, Streamers,Fuck Bill Archer,Reb Bulls are Shiite,The Beer at BMO is expensive. Fuck it is getting boring.

Dozitwin
05-16-2008, 03:36 PM
There's nothing sad and miserable about my life, well done jumping to a completely clueless conclusion. I have plenty of energy for the things that matter to me. Your facile summary doesn't touch on all the complexities of the issue, and I grasp all of them, but the pressure will not go away.

Brick walls crumble. See: Berlin.

Meaning of facile (adjective)
expressing yourself readily, clearly, effectively; fluent; silver; silver-tongued; smooth-spoken

I thank you for the compliment sir.

The issues regarding turf vs. grass at BMO aren't complex in the least. They are just made to seem that way to keep a rather pointless debate alive. The thing is I'm bored of it now so I'll concede that you were right and I was wrong. This is a complex issue and if we all shout loud enough and long enough the social injustice that is field turf at BMO field, likened by you to the Berlin wall, will be rectified and the perpetrators of this atrocity will be brought to justice. Until then, enjoy your victory.

tempo
05-16-2008, 03:45 PM
Actually I believe you can rent out the Rogers Centre and the ACC. People might not be able to afford it for softball or hockey. But evangelical, jesus events and monster truck can. BMO is not the ACC and it is not the Rogers Centre and that is what makes it great. I am also very much for the development of Canadian soccer and I see BMO being part of that. There's also varying degrees of turf and they have come along way. We also have harsh conditions here in Toronto, and to be honest I would rather see money spent in other areas before trying to replace the field turf. I also think a lot of people here haven't played on real grass or haven't played on field turf. And yes there is a big difference between the turf at Giants stadium and BMO. Just my thoughts though.




I repeat.

And this topic is not something we should give up on.

It is important to us.

Tempo, should we be allowed to rent the Rogers Centre to play beer league softball? What about men's league hockey down at the ACC. Public money went into those places too.

:deadhorse:

NateDoGG
05-16-2008, 03:49 PM
You know, both our fans joke about Red Bull being shit(e) but one thing I have to respect is the fact that their fans put pressure on their new owners (Red Bull) to buy out AEG's share of the stadium, meaning they would not have a dorky stage on one end and actually have a world class european-style soccer specific stadium.

Here was the original "MetroStars" stadium" plan
Cookie cutter, high school stadium with a partial roof and a stage ala Toyota Park...
http://governing.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/metrostars_stadium.jpg

and here is Red Bull Park (now under construction)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/goal/posts/redbulls.aerial.533.jpg

We all can learn something from them.

Perhaps when the Argos protest is over, it is time to kick it up a notch to pressure your owners to buy out the city's share of the stadium.

If it can happen in NY with their shit fan base it should be possible in T-dot.



i cant believe the redbull are gettin a stadium like that
omg....
that pretty much looks like a european stadium

S_D
05-16-2008, 03:53 PM
After seeing the Vancouver/Galaxy game, I am fine with turf. It reminded me of the soccer pitches I played on in highschool where center and the GK areas were no better than gravel.

I know turf is a bit hard, so I wonder if there is an underpad that can be laid down underneath it to make it a bit softer (kind of like carpet underpad)?

footyfan
05-16-2008, 03:57 PM
i cant believe the redbull are gettin a stadium like that
omg....
that pretty much looks like a european stadium


Personally I think most of those European box style stadiums are boring. I prefer some of the newer Asia inspired designs like DC United's proposed stadium.

Which originally was actually a cookie cutter design:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/poplar_point_dc.jpg


But now is more Asia inspired:

http://media.bonnint.net/wtop/8/849/84952.jpg
http://www.bobbyboswell.com/wp-content/uploads/_w-hotel_nsm.jpg


The roof is designed to acoustically funnel the supporter's end's noise around the stadium.

TFCREDNWHITE
05-16-2008, 04:41 PM
I hope when MLSE and the city is ready to expand the stadium in like 3 years...That they really put the hammer down on the redesign! and truely make it world class!..Can't wait!!!

GaryJamboTFC
05-16-2008, 05:40 PM
Meaning of facile (adjective)
expressing yourself readily, clearly, effectively; fluent; silver; silver-tongued; smooth-spoken

I thank you for the compliment sir.

Ah, sadly, you missed the definition that was actually being used:


Arrived at without due care, effort, or examination; superficial: proposed a facile solution to a complex problem.


The issues regarding turf vs. grass at BMO aren't complex in the least. They are just made to seem that way to keep a rather pointless debate alive. The thing is I'm bored of it now so I'll concede that you were right and I was wrong. This is a complex issue and if we all shout loud enough and long enough the social injustice that is field turf at BMO field, likened by you to the Berlin wall, will be rectified and the perpetrators of this atrocity will be brought to justice. Until then, enjoy your victory.

Superb. I shall revel in my glorious victory over the oppressor!
:hurray::thumbsup::cheers::yesnod::seeya:

TFCREDNWHITE
05-16-2008, 05:46 PM
Can we move on, It seems like every week someone brings Field Turf, Streamers,Fuck Bill Archer,Reb Bulls are Shiite,The Beer at BMO is expensive. Fuck it is getting boring.

But the above things are true!! LOL :noidea:

Jack
05-16-2008, 05:47 PM
Can we move on, It seems like every week someone brings Field Turf, Streamers,Fuck Bill Archer,Reb Bulls are Shiite,The Beer at BMO is expensive. Fuck it is getting boring.

Feel free to start riveting and interesting new topics of discussion at any time.:poke:

Batman
05-16-2008, 07:09 PM
But fuck Bill Archer is a guaranteed hit post!

Laurignano
05-16-2008, 07:15 PM
Personally I think most of those European box style stadiums are boring. I prefer some of the newer Asia inspired designs like DC United's proposed stadium.

Which originally was actually a cookie cutter design:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/poplar_point_dc.jpg


But now is more Asia inspired:

http://media.bonnint.net/wtop/8/849/84952.jpg
http://www.bobbyboswell.com/wp-content/uploads/_w-hotel_nsm.jpg


The roof is designed to acoustically funnel the supporter's end's noise around the stadium.


I love that look my self as well my friend. I would love def. to see our stadium looking like that one day, boy wouldnt that be beautiful?! lol plus could you imagine how it would sound?! GEEZ

Batman
05-16-2008, 07:31 PM
Yep... some kind of white / fan style roof like above could certainly dress up our (lets face it) bare bones stadium. I like it.

Blixa
05-16-2008, 09:00 PM
Even if the stadium can't be sold due to legal restrictions there's no reason why MLSE can't exclusively lease it for an 'X' amount of time.

DVS
05-17-2008, 07:35 PM
I was just thinking about this. Carl Robinson said on the Soccer Show last night that BMO's turf was miles better than the surface in New York or Real Salt Lake.

However what was not said was that Salt Lake is moving into a new stadium with real grass in October and New York is moving into a stadium with real grass in 2009. Philadelphia is going to have real grass in 2010 and there is talk of possibly bringing in real grass to Seattle's Qwest field in the 2010 season. Houston's stadium has been confirmed to have real grass as well. Montreal has real grass. New England is looking to build a stadium closer to Boston with real grass in the 2010-2012 time frame. Portland's plans would include laying down real grass at PGE park once the baseball team moves out and it is converted to a Soccer Specific Stadium.

What this means is that come 2010 perhaps only Toronto FC and New England will have the fake stuff and come 2012 BMO may be the only MLS stadium that has it.

Just an observation.

I have to bring up the first post because I just have to add to it.


It makes me LAUGH SO HARD that the Government built BMO field for the country to have a "NATIONAL SOCCER STADIUM" yet our National Soccer team doesn't want to play in Toronto because of the Crappy Turf.

Also here is another food for thought. I know its another sport but check this out:

When Minnesota and Tampa get their new baseball parks The Toronto Blue Jays will be the only team to play on artificial turf.

Now if anyone says Toronto can't have grass because of climate PLEASE Minnesota is having grass and last I check Commmonwealth Stadium in Edmonton has grass