2016 Preseason

[WestStandGeoff]

Anyone know when training camp is supposed to start?

Was towards the end of January last year I think, so that would mean they should be starting in a couple weeks.

[djcuse]

Training Camps officially open January 22: http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2015/11/12/key-dates-season

[Pint]

Next friday camp opens, just from twitter it appears a number of players are already around.

They will be missing Bradley, Altidore, Johnson and hopefully Osorio for part of camp since they are with their national teams.

[Red CB Toronto]

This is one of the quietest offseasons in terms of details I seem to remember compared to years past when you knew they would either be playing in Charleston, Orlando or even Turkey. It seems they must be doing their own thing as most of the pre-season tournements have their teams. On the side note, the Carolina Challenge Cup even had to put off being played this year due to inabilty to get 3 MLS teams to play in it.

[reggie]

the PR for this club is brutal...we will get the news 3 days after it happens.

[Oldtimer]

This is one of the quietest offseasons in terms of details I seem to remember compared to years past when you knew they would either be playing in Charleston, Orlando or even Turkey. It seems they must be doing their own thing as most of the pre-season tournements have their teams. On the side note, the Carolina Challenge Cup even had to put off being played this year due to inabilty to get 3 MLS teams to play in it.

Going to Charleston was a great road trip because the area is so nice to visit at that time of year (even if TFC was terrible during that era). It's a pity it's not going on any more. However, it's probably a function of how the league is changing for the better more than anything else.

[Joe Kool]

Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal should get together and do a Canadian preseason tourney of their own. They would have to hold it in the US still since they would need proper weather but I think something like that would be cool. Wherever they go in the US they could get the local NASL team or whatever to host it and play. Basically like Charleston did....but a Canadian edition of MLS teams. That would be cool for us Canucks to see.

[reggie]

it sure would be nice to watch a preseason game in a real stadium.not these backyard fields with a field level cam.

[PopePouri]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYeTPROWQAAcqHO.jpg:large

Not sure if the bottom means we're going to Bradenton again this year.

[Red CB Toronto]

Going to Charleston was a great road trip because the area is so nice to visit at that time of year (even if TFC was terrible during that era). It's a pity it's not going on any more. However, it's probably a function of how the league is changing for the better more than anything else.

I don't think its a matter of the league better. MLS preseason is what it is. The approach to the preseason for TFC has changed each a new coach and GM has come in, so hopefully the Reds at least have some consistentcy there with Tim and Greg. For example Aaron Winter was not completely pleased with having to trek over to Turkey for part of the preseason in his first year with the club but that was a committment Preki made prior to his departure.

[Areathrasher]

Going to LA next week according to this http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/01/19/tfc-players-react-addition-clint-irwin

The Reds will travel to Los Angeles to kickoff the preseason next week.

I wonder if that's so they can get some time with Jozy and Bradley at the US Camp?

[Joe Kool]

Going to LA next week according to this http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/01/19/tfc-players-react-addition-clint-irwin

The Reds will travel to Los Angeles to kickoff the preseason next week.

I wonder if that's so they can get some time with Jozy and Bradley at the US Camp?

I noticed that too. First time they are going to California for preseason. This is also the first year that they didn't have some kind of preseason tourney announcement by now is it not? All of the other years they announced the various tourneys ahead of preseason giving fans time to book flights/hotels. TFC even organized a package with travel agents when they did the Disney tourneys. This is a new era I guess....making solid moves and not being too splashy with the press. Keeping preseason plans mostly under wraps. Hopefully we still get to see some preseason games online.

[Areathrasher]

Seba already in LA FYI

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZGKIbkUYAQ80Dr.jpg:large

[Initial B]

Seems kind of odd to go all the way west coast when the first two games of the season are on the east coast. Since Seba's with Pirlo I assume that NYCFC is out there as well. I wonder if MLS FO asked the clubs to train out there for media exposure and to plug LAFC.

[Areathrasher]

They are there for an MLS Media day.

[TFC Tifoso]

Pirlo looks like a boss even drinking coffee.......

[CanadaLFC]

Pre-season Schedule:



Date/Time
Opponent
Venue


Saturday January 30- TBD
UC Irvine
Anteater Stadium


Monday February 1 - TBD
California State Fullerton
Anteater Stadium


Wednesday February 3 - TBD
Ventura County Fusion
Anteater Stadium


Saturday February 6 - TBD
LA Galaxy
StubHub Centre

[Areathrasher]

Roster http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/01/26/toronto-fc-2016-pre-season-roster

Uccelo and Edwards on it along with the draft picks.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Roster http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/01/26/toronto-fc-2016-pre-season-roster

Uccelo and Edwards on it along with the draft picks.


And it's official!!!

Will Johnson will be our second number 10. He'll be wearing the roman numeral "X" this year.



g:D

[Mateo1985]

And it's official!!!

Will Johnson will be our second number 10. He'll be wearing the roman numeral "X" this year.



g:D

I'd buy that jersey with an "X" there lol

[rydermike]

Maybe there is a transaction pending and Johnson will take that number?

New Jersey Numbers Announced from that link
1 - Clint Irwin
3 - Drew Moor
33 - Steven Beitashour

TFC2 Invites ( Phil Di Bennardo (GK), Wesley Charpie (D), Skylar Thomas (D), Molham Babouli (F), Luca Uccello (M), Raheem Edwards (M))
Draft Picks ( Tsubasa Endoh, Brian James, Darius Madson, Mitchell Taintor)

Bradley, Altidore, Johnson absent for US/CAN camps
Moore is on Team-Allowed Absence
Darius Madson is Absent will join team when camp moves to LA

[Fort York Redcoat]

Maybe there is a transaction pending and Johnson will take that number?

He won't be taking Seba's 10 or his buddy Bradley's 4. He's been 8 but he may take 7.

Whateva. I can wait to get the jersey till his second match. g:D

[OgtheDim]

I thought the number X was taken by Al Location?

[JuliquE]

I'd buy that jersey with an "X" there lol
Would have been a good choice for the name on the back, in years gone by.

[Ajax TFC]

Maybe there is a transaction pending and Johnson will take that
Only way that would make sense is if he takes Hagglund's #6. I don't think he's taking Bradleys 4, Cheyrou's #8 or Giovinco's #10.
All attacker numbers are open right now. Could see him taking 7 or 11.

[rydermike]

Only way that would make sense is if he takes Hagglund's #6. I don't think he's taking Bradleys 4, Cheyrou's #8 or Giovinco's #10.
All attacker numbers are open right now. Could see him taking 7 or 11.

That was my thought, he would get #6. I can see him in 11, but why wouldn't he have been given it already, he's been on our roster almost a month. I could also see him in #16, with Gomez moving to #9, like he wore for the US

[notthesun]

Speaking of jersey numbers, Simonin is #13 now. A bit of an indication of how high management is on him... could even be #3 on the CB depth chart in their eyes.

[Areathrasher]

http://www.philadelphiaunion.com/post/2016/01/26/union-participate-suncoast-invitational-alongside-5-mls-teams

Wednesday, February 24 – Joe DiMaggio Sports Complex
Toronto FC vs Montreal Impact, 4 p.m.
New York Red Bulls vs Philadelphia Union, 7:00 p.m.
Saturday, February 27 – Al Lang Stadium
Philadelphia Union vs Toronto FC, 4 p.m.
Tampa Bay Rowdies vs Montreal Impact, 7:00 p.m.
*match schedule subject to change

[Fort York Redcoat]

http://philadelphia-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/styles/image_default/s3/images/RowdiesSuncoastInvitational_SocialMedia.jpg?4cNbDm O0xZlqb.la.Av9Fv1UEiQpScAt&itok=MdxlFtpb&c=df6fc581c91ceebef4c61e9f9d14363d

I guess a Thank You is in order to the Rowdies to host a Pre Season tourney for us.

[Red CB Toronto]

http://philadelphia-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/styles/image_default/s3/images/RowdiesSuncoastInvitational_SocialMedia.jpg?4cNbDm O0xZlqb.la.Av9Fv1UEiQpScAt&itok=MdxlFtpb&c=df6fc581c91ceebef4c61e9f9d14363d

I guess a Thank You is in order to the Rowdies to host a Pre Season tourney for us.

I know its still a month away, but it would have been great to have some more notice on this, might have actuallu gone down.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I know its still a month away, but it would have been great to have some more notice on this, might have actuallu gone down.


I have a feeling this one was thrown together and we're hearing about it as soon as they had it finalized. I think the issue is why did it take so long to throw together? As we are well aware, previous years there were multiple options and this year seems no different.

But hey, we're just the folks who can't wait to watch or follow them. I wish em luck and hope that one of these teams can throw these games on youtube.

[Pint]

I asked when the initial preseason schedule came out and steams for LA trip are unlikely and maybe they get them for orlando.

March 6th could very well be the 1st time we have a chance of watching this team play.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I asked when the initial preseason schedule came out and steams for LA trip are unlikely and maybe they get them for orlando.

March 6th could very well be the 1st time we have a chance of watching this team play.

Tampa Bay/St. Petes.


and what you say is sad.:(

[djcuse]

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (January 27, 2016) — Some of the biggest soccer stars in North America are coming to Tampa Bay in February to participate in the Tampa Bay Rowdies Suncoast Invitational, a brand-new preseason exhibition series unlike any the Tampa Bay area has ever hosted.
The Tampa Bay Rowdies, along with Major League Soccer’s Philadelphia Union, New York City FC, D.C. United, Montreal Impact, New York Red Bulls and Toronto FC will participate in the Rowdies Suncoast Invitational, which will be played between February 17 and February 27.
Don’t miss your chance to see Andrea Pirlo, Didier Drogba, Frank Lampard, David Villa, Sebastian Giovinco, Bobby Boswell, Michael Bradley, Jozy Altidore, Fabian Espindola, Maurice Edu, Sacha Kljestan and more take the field along with the Tampa Bay Rowdies!
In addition to participating in the Tampa Bay Rowdies Suncoast Invitational, the Montreal Impact will hold a preseason training camp hosted by the Rowdies from February 15-28. During that time, the Impact will call Al Lang Stadium home, using the field, locker room and gym facilities alongside the Rowdies.
2016 will be the second year the Philadelphia Union will base their preseason training camp at the Joe DiMaggio Sports Complex in Clearwater.
In addition to high-level exhibition matches that will help prepare the teams for their 2016 regular seasons, the Tampa Bay Rowdies Suncoast Invitational offers Pinellas County and soccer fans throughout the Tampa Bay area the chance to see six MLS clubs in action.
“We’re thrilled to welcome these MLS teams to St. Petersburg,” said Rowdies principal owner Bill Edwards. “This is a fantastic opportunity to bring some of the world’s best soccer talent home to our fans. I am grateful to the City of Clearwater, the St. Petersburg/Clearwater Sports Commission and all involved in making this invitational a reality. I look forward to it becoming an annual soccer tradition.”
Tickets will be complimentary for 2016 Tampa Bay Rowdies season ticket holders for all matches. Single-day tickets will allow access to both matches on any particular day.
For matches at Al Lang Stadium, Midfielder's Club or Reserved seats that will get you just feet away from all the stars are available for $20. Seating in the main stadium bowl is $15, while youth tickets are $10.
General admission tickets for the February 24 matches at the Joe DiMaggio Sports Complex are $15 for adults and $10 for youth.
Tickets to all matches will go on sale to the general public at 10 a.m. Friday, January 29.
Match Schedule
Wednesday, February 17 – Al Lang Stadium
D.C. United vs Philadelphia Union, 4 p.m.
New York City FC vs Montreal Impact, 7:00 p.m.
Saturday, February 20 – Al Lang Stadium
D.C. United vs Montreal Impact, 4 p.m.
Tampa Bay Rowdies vs Philadelphia Union, 7:00 p.m.
Wednesday, February 24 – Joe DiMaggio Sports Complex
Toronto FC vs Montreal Impact, 4 p.m.
New York Red Bulls vs Philadelphia Union, 7:00 p.m.
Saturday, February 27 – Al Lang Stadium
Philadelphia Union vs Toronto FC, 4 p.m.
Tampa Bay Rowdies vs Montreal Impact, 7:00 p.m.
*match schedule subject to change

[Pint]

Tampa Bay/St. Petes.


and what you say is sad.:(

Meh its all the same lol

I know, i enjoy watching a choppy stream of 1/4 of a fog filled pitch... it's how i know the season is close.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/GalindoPW/status/693111041266360320

[reggie]

the secret camp continues...not a interview,the odd still frame pic...what a joke

[OgtheDim]

the secret camp continues...not a interview,the odd still frame pic...what a joke

Dude - they are in LA. There are no TFC media their beyond Devang Desai who's in house.

They did media interviews on Monday here before they went down. 6 of them - the one DP, the 3 new guys, Vanney & Bez. Do you know how many teams do that much talk in this league? Maybe 3 or 4, depending upon management.

They send out at least a pic for EVERY SINGLE SESSION.

They did an interview with Manella & Chapman. (http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/01/28/chapman-and-mannella-ready-their-chance-2016?DB_OEM_ID=32800)

What are you expecting?

[OgtheDim]

Oh look.....


https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/693121886352494592

[reggie]

ok dude what ever you say...

[jloome]

ok dude what ever you say...that story is 4 days old...other teams seem to have daily reports.dont be such a dick head...

Most of those other clubs' stories aren't from the club, but from beat writers. It's incredibly hard right now to get print/online space in Canada for soccer. It likely has little to do with the club. The business is in a different stage here and there are long-standing biases about what gets eyes on the page.

I'd say having more aggressive communications people with better ideas would help, and it would... except that corporate culture largely defeats initiative these days. The process of having to have everything approved by six bosses who don't know what the fuck they're talking about tends to make it a net neutral job when it comes to reputation.

[Pint]

Devang can only do so much... unless he has an intern he has to spend at least 2-3 hours a day looking up Gif's

[reggie]

seriously...am i asking too much...have you seen the coverage the leafs raps and jays get at camp.if the guy is in LA..how hard is it to do a 5 min report every day.

[OgtheDim]

seriously...am i asking too much...have you seen the coverage the leafs raps and jays get at camp.if the guy is in LA..how hard is it to do a 5 min report every day.

I agree on the 5 minute report thing. Heck, do a daily periscope.

[OgtheDim]

Hey, wanna Watch Seba attempt to mark a rampaging attacker..............









https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/693140372395003904




Mark Bloom.

:skep:

[barticusz]

the secret camp continues...not a interview,the odd still frame pic...what a joke

What exactly are you looking for? Go on mlssoccer.com There's been an article related to TFC nearly ever other day.

[reggie]

i dont get it...do i hv to go to the nhl.nba,mlb sites to get toronto team camp news...they have a guy in LA,doing stupid 5 sec clips.why not do a 5 min capsule every day.sorry i guess im wrong to wanna get more TFC news.

[Ivy]

i dont get it...do i hv to go to the nhl.nba,mlb sites to get toronto team camp news...they have a guy in LA,doing stupid 5 sec clips.why not do a 5 min capsule every day.sorry i guess im wrong to wanna get more TFC news.
What is it that you're looking for though? They do fitness exercises all day...

[reggie]

nothing i guess.jus saying the guy is in LA..what is he doing all day...they had a scrimmage last night.why not give a report on who looked good and who is playing where...do they not have a new fitness guru?have they even announced it.

[aajking]

Are preseason games streamed on the TFC site again this year?

[Stress]

Are preseason games streamed on the TFC site again this year?

They said probably not the ones in LA. But they might have something for the Tampa games.

[notthesun]

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/01/30/reds-prepare-first-pre-season-match

First pre-season game is tonight at 7pm ET vs. University of California Irvine. No stream. Mostly a look at our depth guys, it says projected starting XI is Roberts; Lovitz, Zavaleta, Williams, Morgan; Mannella, Chapman; Endoh, Osorio, Delgado; Hamilton (looks like a 4-2-3-1).

[flamehawk]

Friendly vs UC Irvine starting right now:

#TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash) Starting XI vs. #UCI (https://twitter.com/hashtag/UCI?src=hash): Roberts; Bloom, Zavaleta, Williams, Morgan; Endoh, Delgado, Mannella, Osorio, Edwards; Hamilton. #TFCLive (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFCLive?src=hash)
bench: Bono, Thomas, Lovitz, Chapman, James, Uccello, Taintor, Babouli, Madison


https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/693585835631857665

[sidvan]

good to see Bloom playing again

[dantdot]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/693589984587087872

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/693596102734446592

Endoh is the truth. But seriously, great start for him.

[notthesun]

Just give Endoh the MVP trophy right now. Step aside, Seba.

[Detroit_TFC]

Seems like that could have gone better than it did. 2nd Endoh goal called back for some reason but TFC got penalty finished by Hamilton. Unfortunately also gave up a penalty and late goal. 2-2

[reggie]

oh boy...im going to say it...we gave up 2 goals late to a college team..fire VANNEY:rolleyes::drinking:

[Pint]

0 goals allowed by Q... 2 by Bono.

#freeQ

[portu]

A year ago I would of cared, but honestly at this point fuck a preseason because it means absolutely shit all in terms of results, coaching, performance, etcetera

[Detroit_TFC]

Well, on the positive side, in past years this would have been about our first team rather than our depth players.

[notthesun]

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/01/31/endoh-impresses-reds-open-pre-season-2-2-draw

[Ajax TFC]

A year ago I would of cared, but honestly at this point fuck a preseason because it means absolutely shit all in terms of results, coaching, performance, etcetera
It's a nice chance to get a look at what they're trying out and how new players look. But results don't mean anything

[Shway]

#FreeQuilly

[OgtheDim]

Based on last season at TFCII, I would be surprised if Bono doesn't stay down and the mighty Q is the backup. Larson seems to feel otherwise but then I think Bendik was his source on that info.

[Detroit_TFC]

Based on last season at TFCII, I would be surprised if Bono doesn't stay down and the mighty Q is the backup. Larson seems to feel otherwise but then I think Bendik was his source on that info.

I wonder how much more development time Bono is going to get. I can easily see him getting moved out at the end of this season. There will be new sets of eyes on him (Irwin, new GK coach), that should provide enough info to make a decision.

[Red CB Toronto]

I wonder how much more development time Bono is going to get. I can easily see him getting moved out at the end of this season. There will be new sets of eyes on him (Irwin, new GK coach), that should provide enough info to make a decision.

Bono is interesting to me. This was a highly touted kid coming out of Syracuse, enough even to garner interest from Jurgen Klinsmann and get a look at last year's January camp. Last year he and Q shared the duties with TFC2 so it will be interesting to see if can step up. From understanding last season if the Reds had secured their playoff position earlier we would have seen Bono in one of the last few games to wrap up the regular season.

[OgtheDim]

Bono is on a Generation Adidas contract - in essence he has 2 more seasons to prove himself worth an MLS salary.

That having been said, teams are starting to realise they need to keep 3 keepers around in case of injury and for cup runs. In theory, we could keep these 3 for the next 8 seasons. Not sure that will happen.

[bimmer]

In terms of development (because both Bono and Q are still relatively young), wouldn't it be more beneficial for our "better" backup keeper to get regular apps with TFC2 rather than warming the bench for the first team? We don't have the luxury of playing in 3-4 different competitions to rotate our squad that much so barring injury or poor performance from Irwin, our backup will MAYBE get the Canadian Championship ties (depending on how seriously Vanney wants to take it) which could be as few as two matches.

[DOMIN8R]

I'm very curious to see what becomes of Bloom this season.

[bimmer]

I'm very curious to see what becomes of Bloom this season.

Me too. Very up and down couple of years for him... has a fantastic 2014 season, gets rewarded with a new contract, looks like the starting RB coming into 2015, gets displaced by Creavalle, surgery/out for the year and then TFC brings in a new RB for 2016. Unfortunately for him it's obviously Beitashour's job to lose and I haven't heard any indication that he can play anywhere else on the pitch so opportunities are going to be very limited for him.

[Mateo1985]

What if Irwin goes down? Replacements are Bono and Roberts? I'm sure it is going to be a big year for both of them unless we get a solid MLS proven back up Goalie

[Ajax TFC]

In terms of development (because both Bono and Q are still relatively young), wouldn't it be more beneficial for our "better" backup keeper to get regular apps with TFC2 rather than warming the bench for the first team? We don't have the luxury of playing in 3-4 different competitions to rotate our squad that much so barring injury or poor performance from Irwin, our backup will MAYBE get the Canadian Championship ties (depending on how seriously Vanney wants to take it) which could be as few as two matches.
That would make a lot of sense. Let the one with less potential sit on the bench and come on as a sub if needed, then call up the other one from TFC II to start if Irwin is out

[Red CB Toronto]

The General to Jozy on a nice goal in today's match between the U.S. and Iceland.

https://vine.co/v/i52ZUvidAzu

[OgtheDim]

Consensus seems to be this:

https://twitter.com/MLSAnalyst/status/693908809899597824


& this:

https://twitter.com/SoccerByIves/status/693909196614402049



Hmmmm........

[notthesun]

The General to Jozy on a nice goal in today's match between the U.S. and Iceland.

https://vine.co/v/i52ZUvidAzu

Better quality clip here: https://gfycat.com/RealComfortableGentoopenguin

Jozy is looking very lively, making darting runs, getting involved. Like he did early last year. That hamstring injury really slowed him down I think. This could be a big year for him.

[Detroit_TFC]

Mentioned during the pregame commentary - Altidore worked with both a physical conditioning coach and a "mental conditioning" one too. I assume that means a sports psychologist. The prospect of a physically fit, mentally focused Jozy Altidore makes me happy. Looked good during the Iceland match today. Subbed out at 75'.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/SoccerByIves/status/693953930745610240

[bimmer]

Jozy "Kyle Lowry" Altidore

[Ivy]

How come the USMNT Bradley plays better than the TFC Bradley?

[bimmer]

How come the USMNT Bradley plays better than the TFC Bradley?

Comments on the game thread seem to agree that he played better because he had Nguyen/Nagbe playing in front/alongside him and he wasn't the sole chance creator. Which is why I don't think he should be our main link between the midfield and Seba/Jozy, he should play box to box with someone like Osorio up front.

[OgtheDim]

How come the USMNT Bradley plays better than the TFC Bradley?


First half he had Jones sitting as a nailed on DM.

Second half, not so much.

[molenshtain]

Me too. Very up and down couple of years for him... has a fantastic 2014 season, gets rewarded with a new contract, looks like the starting RB coming into 2015, gets displaced by Creavalle, surgery/out for the year and then TFC brings in a new RB for 2016. Unfortunately for him it's obviously Beitashour's job to lose and I haven't heard any indication that he can play anywhere else on the pitch so opportunities are going to be very limited for him.

He got an injury before the year started and then another one just as he was about come back. His form dipped heavily towards then end of 2014, as did everyone else on that team. i think it was down to poor conditioning from Nelsen's staff, combined with the fact that his mind might have been elsewhere after the birth of his child that he couldn't be with a lot due to his wife living on some military base in the south. All understandable. I think given a shot he could regain that early 2014 form where I thought he was honestly one of the best RB's in the league.

He's very solid depth piece, probably playing in 12-16 games in total this season.

[molenshtain]

Comments on the game thread seem to agree that he played better because he had Nguyen/Nagbe playing in front/alongside him and he wasn't the sole chance creator. Which is why I don't think he should be our main link between the midfield and Seba/Jozy, he should play box to box with someone like Osorio up front.

The problem I always see with the idea of having Osorio as an AM is that I literally don't think I've ever seen him play an incisive through ball. His off the ball movement is fantastic, as is his ability to work to retain possession. But I've never seen him play like the no.10 creative maestro that everyone seems to think he is. Bradley at least has that instinct, as well as a couple of other totally unique qualities he brings to that role.

[PopePouri]

The problem I always see with the idea of having Osorio as an AM is that I literally don't think I've ever seen him play an incisive through ball. His off the ball movement is fantastic, as is his ability to work to retain possession. But I've never seen him play like the no.10 creative maestro that everyone seems to think he is. Bradley at least has that instinct, as well as a couple of other totally unique qualities he brings to that role.

Not this?...


www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ap3WNKMus

or this...


www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTT1yeH59ws

or this...


https://youtu.be/VcGKDErA9JU?t=2m17s

[molenshtain]

Not this?...


https://youtu.be/q9ap3WNKMus

or this...


https://youtu.be/NTT1yeH59ws


Well, fair enough. I personally have just never seen him as that type of player. If we're speaking in templates, I think he's more of a Modric and less of an Ozil.

[bimmer]

He got an injury before the year started and then another one just as he was about come back. His form dipped heavily towards then end of 2014, as did everyone else on that team. i think it was down to poor conditioning from Nelsen's staff, combined with the fact that his mind might have been elsewhere after the birth of his child that he couldn't be with a lot due to his wife living on some military base in the south. All understandable. I think given a shot he could regain that early 2014 form where I thought he was honestly one of the best RB's in the league.

He's very solid depth piece, probably playing in 12-16 games in total this season.

Agreed. I definitely don't think he has lost all of the quality he showed in 2014 and you really can't get much better than a guy like him as RB depth in the MLS.


The problem I always see with the idea of having Osorio as an AM is that I literally don't think I've ever seen him play an incisive through ball. His off the ball movement is fantastic, as is his ability to work to retain possession. But I've never seen him play like the no.10 creative maestro that everyone seems to think he is. Bradley at least has that instinct, as well as a couple of other totally unique qualities he brings to that role.

I don't think anyone on the team sees the pitch better than Bradley other than maybe Seba or Cheyrou but I think the full range of his talents would be wasted in the attacking midfield role. I think he's best suited to a free central midfield role like the one he played today with Nguyen as the CAM where he can track back, ping long balls and join the attack when appropriate. Osorio's not perfect but he showed enough for me last season from the left side of the midfield to be trusted to not to completely fall apart from shifting into the middle. He can hold the ball, can beat men on the dribble, has creativity/flair and apparently he notched 7 assists last year which isn't too shabby (T-20 in the league).. Plus with Seba/Jozy playing off each other better this year he likely wouldn't be tasked to make many world class through balls, just your average short passes and layoffs, which he did well last year. Like you said, he's far from a typical maestro but slotting him as a CAM I think, is the most optimal use of the assets/players that we have at our disposal.

[PopePouri]

Well, fair enough. I personally have just never seen him as that type of player. If we're speaking in templates, I think he's more of a Modric and less of an Ozil.

To be fair, Bradley doesn't really fit the no. 10 template as well.

Consensus is that Bradley does best when he has space to arrive late into the box and Oso has the one of the best passing percentages in the final third. If it's about putting the pieces together, logic means that you play Oso further forward than Bradley.

[Ultra & Proud]

To be fair, Bradley doesn't really fit the no. 10 template as well.

Consensus is that Bradley does best when he has space to arrive late into the box and Oso has the one of the best passing percentages in the final third. If it's about putting the pieces together, logic means that you play Oso further forward than Bradley.
The only problem I have with Osorio in the final third is that he tends to just wait a second too long to make his play a lot of the time. Whether it's indecision or over-thinking, he does it a lot but it's something that could be corrected I think.

Bradley is the exact opposite. He runs like a nut and almost always overruns perfect passes that are laid
out at his feet. I don't see him changing his manic style until he loses a step. Until then let him do box to box and run amok like he likes to do.

[molenshtain]

To be fair, Bradley doesn't really fit the no. 10 template as well.

Consensus is that Bradley does best when he has space to arrive late into the box and Oso has the one of the best passing percentages in the final third. If it's about putting the pieces together, logic means that you play Oso further forward than Bradley.

But Osorio has a high passing percentage because he doesn't try a lot of difficult passes. He's very good at recycling possession, doing the off the ball running required to be an available passing option and making the right decision when things are settled and the play is in front of him. Moving him to the middle and asking him to be our primary playmaker is tasking him with a whole set of different obligations that I'm not sure totally match his skill set.

The consensus that Bradley plays best when he's arriving late into the box is I think kind of outdated, and slightly besides the point in the context of our team. He's excelled at the AM position for both us and the USMNT when he has a lot of guys making runs around him and he has free reign when his team is in possession to drop off into midfield and dictate play, or play higher closer to his forward(s) and make the requisite runs to open up space to either create room for them or put himself in the proper position to play the final ball through for a chance on goal. Playing Bradley in that spot can have its drawbacks occasionally, and they can pile up very quickly when things aren't going right. If the game isn't being played at his pace and the guys around him aren't doing the requisite running to create space for both him and and othesr to run into he can he can start to over-complicate things - showing for the ball too often, taking a touch too many or forcing a ball that isn't there because he doesn't want to continue to recycle possession.

Playing Bradley and Osorio at the positions they had last year in the diamond still gives us more out of those two than the reversal would offer.

[OgtheDim]

IF, and it's a BIG IF, Altidore plays like he did today all season, Seba and Altidore both have 20+ goal seasons.

[jloome]

Mentioned during the pregame commentary - Altidore worked with both a physical conditioning coach and a "mental conditioning" one too. I assume that means a sports psychologist. The prospect of a physically fit, mentally focused Jozy Altidore makes me happy. Looked good during the Iceland match today. Subbed out at 75'.

I believe from the style of play he chose and his lack of work rate off the ball offensively that his confidence had been shattered by being repeatedly coached to believe he could only be effective in a system catered to one style.

This was effective for two seasons in Holland (where the defending can be notoriously weak) and then he was told to play two different roles by Di Canio and Poyet, neither playing to his strengths.

He played last season like he was no longer sure what to do without being directed (sometimes by a rotten coach). Maybe the sports psychologist and the off-the-ball movement (he was running behind the defenders all day) indicates TFC is working hard to fulfill his potential. If so, he can be a monster player.

I think his confidence was somewhat shot. He was oversized because he'd been told by Poyet he'd never be anything but a hold-up player, and he'd gone through a terrible run there.

This could be a huge year for him.

[molenshtain]

he also played pretty much the entire season injured. I think this we're gonna see big things from Altidore this season.

[PopePouri]

But Osorio has a high passing percentage because he doesn't try a lot of difficult passes. He's very good at recycling possession, doing the off the ball running required to be an available passing option and making the right decision when things are settled and the play is in front of him. Moving him to the middle and asking him to be our primary playmaker is tasking him with a whole set of different obligations that I'm not sure totally match his skill set.

I have to disagree. The sample size may be small but he's only played centrally 3 times last season. I suggest that you go rewatch the last RB game as an example. That was the game we had our 3 DPs out and our attacking four was Morgan, Gomez, Delgado and Oso. Even with that lineup, he ran the show and all attacks went through him. Defensively he bullied their deep lying playmaker Felipe and in possession, he stretched the play consistently to both Morgan (who was an out-and-out winger) and Delgado who worked more centrally and that allowed us to create a decent amount of chances. This was against an almost full strength RB team fighting for the Support's Shield. This was obviously one game but he had shown good consistency and progression in the latter part of the season. Previously, he played wide in a flat 4-4-2, he still excelled as a faux 10. He did typical no. 10 stuff like this...

https://youtu.be/Xfpxl6oaNnY?t=22s

He also shows good balance and to create space through his movement. If he can sort out his finishing, the potential is there.

https://youtu.be/RId6SikSsao

When I think of Bradley at 10, he's someone that needs space in front of him. Although he has excellent vision, he lacks the guile and balance needed to play the role.




The consensus that Bradley plays best when he's arriving late into the box is I think kind of outdated, and slightly besides the point in the context of our team. He's excelled at the AM position for both us and the USMNT when he has a lot of guys making runs around him and he has free reign when his team is in possession to drop off into midfield and dictate play, or play higher closer to his forward(s) and make the requisite runs to open up space to either create room for them or put himself in the proper position to play the final ball through for a chance on goal. Playing Bradley in that spot can have its drawbacks occasionally, and they can pile up very quickly when things aren't going right. If the game isn't being played at his pace and the guys around him aren't doing the requisite running to create space for both him and and othesr to run into he can he can start to over-complicate things - showing for the ball too often, taking a touch too many or forcing a ball that isn't there because he doesn't want to continue to recycle possession.

Playing Bradley and Osorio at the positions they had last year in the diamond still gives us more out of those two than the reversal would offer.

When I think of Bradley, he's the quintessential shuttler where you can get the best out of him because he's highly athletic, good in possession and has a tremendous engine. The bonus is that he'll stretch the play from a deeper position, something he's known to do. I just don't see Oso as a long term shuttler. He did okay but he can't cover the same amount of ground.

[Areathrasher]

Another scrimmage tonight, here's the projected line up from Devang

Projected Starting XI: Irwin; Morrow, Moor, Perquis, Beitashour; Delgado, Cheyrou, Chapman; Gomez, Hamilton, Giovinco.

[notthesun]

4-3-3, interesting. Maybe we work on that as a backup formation when we're missing guys in the middle, as I still see us primarily playing some kind of 4 man midfield variant.

[jloome]

4-3-3, interesting. Maybe we work on that as a backup formation when we're missing guys in the middle, as I still see us primarily playing some kind of 4 man midfield variant.

Maybe a 4231 and a 433 as the main formations?

[TFC/Everton]

Another scrimmage tonight, here's the projected line up from Devang

Projected Starting XI: Irwin; Morrow, Moor, Perquis, Beitashour; Delgado, Cheyrou, Chapman; Gomez, Hamilton, Giovinco.




interesting formation. Wish these games were live streamed.

[PopePouri]

They used a 4-3-3 the last game.

http://s8.postimg.org/cfcy6yso5/torontofc_433.png

[Initial B]

From the line-ups last game:

1st Half Lineup: Roberts; Bloom, Zavaleta, Williams, Morgan; Endoh, Delgado, Mannella, Osorio, Edwards; Hamilton.
2nd Half Lineup: Bono; Lovitz, Thomas, Taintor, Mannella; Chapman, Uccello, James; Babouli, Hamilton, Madison.
To me, the location of the semi-colons are important. They seemed to be playing a 4-5-1 in the first half and a 4-3-3 in the second.

I don't imagine seeing the starters today, especially against another college team. These games are to test out the trialists, draft picks, and TFCII callups. Some of these guys won't be making the trip to Florida. I don't expect to see any starters until they play against the USL side or LAG. The real work integrating the starters with the new tactics and formations in a game environment will happen in the second half of the preseason.

[notthesun]

I don't imagine seeing the starters today, especially against another college team. These games are to test out the trialists, draft picks, and TFCII callups. Some of these guys won't be making the trip to Florida. I don't expect to see any starters until they play against the USL side or LAG. The real work integrating the starters with the new tactics and formations in a game environment will happen in the second half of the preseason.

Still, the starters are working to get up to full fitness as well. That's about 80% of what preseason consists of for the strongest 18; getting everybody not named Michael Bradley match fit. They will probably only play 45 minutes though.

[ag futbol]

But Osorio has a high passing percentage because he doesn't try a lot of difficult passes. He's very good at recycling possession, doing the off the ball running required to be an available passing option and making the right decision when things are settled and the play is in front of him.

This doesn't really line up with the passing data we have on Osorio. He completes more passes than the average player and his passes are more often forward looking than other players with the same passing percentage.

But agreed in general with your point - AM probably not his thing on this team. He's doing well as a LM in a narrow midfield - wouldn't be eager to mess with that.

[molenshtain]

This doesn't really line up with the passing data we have on Osorio. He completes more passes than the average player and his passes are more often forward looking than other players with the same passing percentage.


Nothing you say here contradicts my statement. Osorio rarely if ever looks to play the ball in behind defenders. If you're open, Osorio's gonna play it to your feet. He's very good at that. The metrics that indicate how effective his passing was at putting pressure on opposing defenses aren't very good. He lags significantly behind the league's best play-makers because he's not the type of player to be putting teams under pressure with his movement, but especially his passing. I don't know why People want a 10# who is too conservative to try less than 10 through balls last season. He never, ever shoots either.

Being good at not giving up the ball is not in and of itself a skill that inherently means you are a play maker. A ton of other shit goes into that role, things which Bradley does and Osorio does not. That's not to say Osorio didn't have an excellent season, where he really impressed me at times and has me very excited for his future. It's just not his game to be the main play-maker in any team.

[MightyDM]

Comments on the game thread seem to agree that he played better because he had Nguyen/Nagbe playing in front/alongside him and he wasn't the sole chance creator. Which is why I don't think he should be our main link between the midfield and Seba/Jozy, he should play box to box with someone like Osorio up front.

The first need is for a proper DM. If you are right, we have to play DM-BtoB-AM. How do they make that work?

[MightyDM]

He got an injury before the year started and then another one just as he was about come back. His form dipped heavily towards then end of 2014, as did everyone else on that team. i think it was down to poor conditioning from Nelsen's staff, combined with the fact that his mind might have been elsewhere after the birth of his child that he couldn't be with a lot due to his wife living on some military base in the south. All understandable. I think given a shot he could regain that early 2014 form where I thought he was honestly one of the best RB's in the league.

He's very solid depth piece, probably playing in 12-16 games in total this season.

He hasn't been the same since the tackle with Will Johnson - Johnson seemed to recover faster than Bloom.

And I don't buy the conditioning stuff about Nelsen.. Its possible he worked the players too hard, but surely that's a dead horse by now?

[MightyDM]

But Osorio has a high passing percentage because he doesn't try a lot of difficult passes. He's very good at recycling possession, doing the off the ball running required to be an available passing option and making the right decision when things are settled and the play is in front of him. Moving him to the middle and asking him to be our primary playmaker is tasking him with a whole set of different obligations that I'm not sure totally match his skill set.

The consensus that Bradley plays best when he's arriving late into the box is I think kind of outdated, and slightly besides the point in the context of our team. He's excelled at the AM position for both us and the USMNT when he has a lot of guys making runs around him and he has free reign when his team is in possession to drop off into midfield and dictate play, or play higher closer to his forward(s) and make the requisite runs to open up space to either create room for them or put himself in the proper position to play the final ball through for a chance on goal. Playing Bradley in that spot can have its drawbacks occasionally, and they can pile up very quickly when things aren't going right. If the game isn't being played at his pace and the guys around him aren't doing the requisite running to create space for both him and and othesr to run into he can he can start to over-complicate things - showing for the ball too often, taking a touch too many or forcing a ball that isn't there because he doesn't want to continue to recycle possession.

Playing Bradley and Osorio at the positions they had last year in the diamond still gives us more out of those two than the reversal would offer.

I agree with this. Assign someone the DM responsibility to cover for Bradley and let him run the show.

[MightyDM]

I have to disagree. The sample size may be small but he's only played centrally 3 times last season. I suggest that you go rewatch the last RB game as an example. That was the game we had our 3 DPs out and our attacking four was Morgan, Gomez, Delgado and Oso. Even with that lineup, he ran the show and all attacks went through him. Defensively he bullied their deep lying playmaker Felipe and in possession, he stretched the play consistently to both Morgan (who was an out-and-out winger) and Delgado who worked more centrally and that allowed us to create a decent amount of chances. This was against an almost full strength RB team fighting for the Support's Shield. This was obviously one game but he had shown good consistency and progression in the latter part of the season. Previously, he played wide in a flat 4-4-2, he still excelled as a faux 10. He did typical no. 10 stuff like this...

https://youtu.be/Xfpxl6oaNnY?t=22s

He also shows good balance and to create space through his movement. If he can sort out his finishing, the potential is there.

https://youtu.be/RId6SikSsao

When I think of Bradley at 10, he's someone that needs space in front of him. Although he has excellent vision, he lacks the guile and balance needed to play the role.



When I think of Bradley, he's the quintessential shuttler where you can get the best out of him because he's highly athletic, good in possession and has a tremendous engine. The bonus is that he'll stretch the play from a deeper position, something he's known to do. I just don't see Oso as a long term shuttler. He did okay but he can't cover the same amount of ground.

I agree with you about Oso but surely to get the best out of the team we have to build to Bradleys strengths and defend his weakness?

[MightyDM]

Maybe a 4231 and a 433 as the main formations?

gotta be at least two up front (jozy and Gio) so 4-1-3-2

[molenshtain]

He hasn't been the same since the tackle with Will Johnson - Johnson seemed to recover faster than Bloom.

And I don't buy the conditioning stuff about Nelsen.. Its possible he worked the players too hard, but surely that's a dead horse by now?

I don't think Bloom was injured in that tackle. A groin issue in the off-season is what I remember beginning his long layoff.

And the fact that the squad essentially staged a revolt during a playoff run just to signal to Bez how badly Nelsen needed to go is pretty telling. The club has made a point of showing everyone how they aremaking up for how poor our standard of training was during Nelsen. I think it freaked out Bez when he found out he bad it really was.

[mowe]

#TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash) starting XI vs #CSUF (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CSUF?src=hash): Irwin; Beitashour, Moor, Perquis, Morgan; Delgado, Cheyrou, Osorio; Endoh, Gomez, Giovinco. #TFCLive (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFCLive?src=hash)

4-3-3 it looks like. Strong lineup.

[Stress]

#TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash) starting XI vs #CSUF (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CSUF?src=hash): Irwin; Beitashour, Moor, Perquis, Morgan; Delgado, Cheyrou, Osorio; Endoh, Gomez, Giovinco. #TFCLive (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFCLive?src=hash)

4-3-3 it looks like. Strong lineup.

Big opportunity for Endoh to show if he has what it takes to be a first teamer.

Morgan is an interesting choice.

[noimpactinmtl]

Big opportunity for Endoh to show if he has what it takes to be a first teamer.

Morgan is an interesting choice.

Gives a good chance to see if Morgan can provide linkup with Giovinco out wide.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/694345004127420416

It's been too long.

[ag futbol]

Nothing you say here contradicts my statement. Osorio rarely if ever looks to play the ball in behind defenders. If you're open, Osorio's gonna play it to your feet. He's very good at that. The metrics that indicate how effective his passing was at putting pressure on opposing defenses aren't very good. He lags significantly behind the league's best play-makers because he's not the type of player to be putting teams under pressure with his movement, but especially his passing. I don't know why People want a 10# who is too conservative to try less than 10 through balls last season. He never, ever shoots either.

Being good at not giving up the ball is not in and of itself a skill that inherently means you are a play maker. A ton of other shit goes into that role, things which Bradley does and Osorio does not. That's not to say Osorio didn't have an excellent season, where he really impressed me at times and has me very excited for his future. It's just not his game to be the main play-maker in any team.
Again, this is naked eye vs. stats. I'll take the stats.

[Ajax TFC]

The first need is for a proper DM. If you are right, we have to play DM-BtoB-AM. How do they make that work?
Easy actually.
Endoh/Oso/Delgado
Bradley - Johnson
Cheyrou

A double shuttler formation works best to compensate for Cheyrou's lack of speed, and conveniently we have two of the best shuttlers in the league.

Its possible he worked the players too hard, but surely that's a dead horse by now?
Why shouldn't we talk about how piss poor the training and conditioning was under Nelsen if we're discussing the way the team collapsed that year and why certain players' form dipped dramatically?

gotta be at least two up front (jozy and Gio) so 4-1-3-2
Giovinco can play the left side of a 4-3-3

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/694359983744417792

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/694361010614857730

Sign him up!

[Red CB Toronto]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/694361010614857730

Sign him up!

Putting a good foot forward in his effort to earn a first team contract, but do not want to get to too excited with it being a game against a college team.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/694364594068848640

[Red CB Toronto]

TFC with the victory, yeah, good to see lots of the kids getting their goals.

[molenshtain]

Again, this is naked eye vs. stats. I'll take the stats.

but the stats don't say he's good at doing the things an AM needs to be good at either. Pass completion Pct is a useless stat if you're trying to measure anything than the ability to retain possesion. That's a good skill to have, but not by itself. You need to be able to be a a lot more incisive and aggressive then he is to play that position. Both the stats and the eye test bare this out.

[ag futbol]

but the stats don't say he's good at doing the things an AM needs to be good at either. Pass completion Pct is a useless stat if you're trying to measure anything than the ability to retain possesion. That's a good skill to have, but not by itself. You need to be able to be a a lot more incisive and aggressive then he is to play that position. Both the stats and the eye test bare this out.
Below you'll find the link to some advanced stats for last season. It's only up to September, but absent some better data dump it's about as good as we'll get. Osorio is top decile for key passing percentage (passes that lead directly to a shot). Produced more key passes than players such as Pappa, Finlay, Diskerud, and Rowe which most would consider attack minded midfielders. This is the third highest total on the team behind Bradley and Giovinco, while noting he is hardly a focus of our attack. The story on him from the analytics guys has been similar. Lots of passes and the passes are forward looking too. From what I have seen the stats do not support your case of his passing not being incisive or aggressive. He's producing more important passes in a game than the average player even if there a lot of short passes in there as well that simply serve to keep possession.


http://www.americansocceranalysis.com/shooter-xgoals-2015/

[portu]

Just a reminder that guys like Endoh, Babouli, Uccello, etcetera are all fighting for the one roster spot we have left

[molenshtain]

Below you'll find the link to some advanced stats for last season. It's only up to September, but absent some better data dump it's about as good as we'll get. Osorio is top decile for key passing percentage (passes that lead directly to a shot). Produced more key passes than players such as Pappa, Finlay, Diskerud, and Rowe which most would consider attack minded midfielders. This is the third highest total on the team behind Bradley and Giovinco, while noting he is hardly a focus of our attack. The story on him from the analytics guys has been similar. Lots of passes and the passes are forward looking too. From what I have seen the stats do not support your case of his passing not being incisive or aggressive. He's producing more important passes in a game than the average player even if there a lot of short passes in there as well that simply serve to keep possession.


http://www.americansocceranalysis.com/shooter-xgoals-2015/

I was reading that graph earlier.

First off, Rowe and Pappa spent a lot of the time coming off the bench or being out entirely this season, so whatever. Diskerud had a seriously underwhelming season, so holding him to that standard isn't totally flattering either. Finlay's an interesting data point, one that's complicated to the fact that most of his chance creation comes from crosses, which muddles his value under this algorithm. This is where we bring in more data and further put these stats into context.

first off, a "key pass" under those rules is just the last pass before a shot. I'm fairly willing to be a lot of Oso's numbers in that stat come from him dumping the ball off to Giovinco, who took an ungodly amount of shots this season. That's an easy way to pad that stat. The stat that more clearly defines the best playmakers is the XA stat, which judges the quality of his key passes. The top ten in this stat are:



Benny Feilhaber
SKC
M
2491
42
0.333
10
6.14
3.86
63
10
7.96
14.10
0.113


Sacha Kljestan
NYRB
M
2606
47
0.489
6
5.74
0.26
68
8
7.63
13.37
0.120


Brad Davis
HOU
M
2494
45
0.489
4
4.57
-0.57
64
8
7.56
12.12
0.100


Cristian Maidana
PHI
M
1918
38
0.395
1
2.77
-1.77
76
9
7.42
10.18
0.127


Sebastian Giovinco
TOR
F
2515
167
0.395
20
16.55
3.45
52
11
7.12
23.67
0.080


Martin Perez Garcia
SJ
M
1884
27
0.407
2
1.74
0.26
68
6
7.10
8.84
0.125


Chris Tierney
NE
D
2433
25
0.360
2
1.62
0.38
46
1
6.67
8.29
0.116


Javier Morales
RSL
M
1848
44
0.659
8
5.94
2.06
71
9
6.52
12.47
0.149


Federico Higuain
CLB
M
2508
65
0.431
7
7.18
-0.18
70
5
6.41
13.59
0.121


Mauro Diaz
FCD
M
1536
38
0.368
5
4.12
0.88
44
6
5.61
9.74
0.121



That's a pretty solid list of the best chance creators in the league. In this stat, Osorio is lagging behind such renowned Playmakers as the ghost currently occupying Dillon Powers body, bad at being a poacher - Poacher Gyasi Zardes, contemporary in lineup importance and role Felipe, jogging idiot Justin Meram, a Forward in Kei Kamara who rarely attempted to leave his opposition's 18', FUCKING TAYLOR KEMP, Benchman extraordinaire Kwadwo Poku, eighth best Revs midfielder Kelyn Rowe, The left back for the worst attacking team in the east Joevin Jones, the primary playmaker for the same shit team who was too fat and underwhelming even for the Fire- Shaun Maloney, the third best forward for the Revs Teal Bunbury, some dude named Luke Boden, and Stefan Ishizaki who couldn't always get a game for the Galaxy during the portion of the season when they couldn't for the life of them orchestrate an offense. The five guys sitting directly behind him are Marco Donadel, Quincy "FUCK YEAH" Amarikwa, Matt Besler, Sheanon Williams and Hector Jimenez. That's not good company.

Osorio is an incredibly important piece for the franchise and performs a very important role in our lineup. He does what he does very well, and he continues to get better every season. But it's been three seasons since he became a lock in the starting lineup and an important role in our offense, and I can count on one hand how many times he's even attempted a through ball in behind the opposition's defense or beat a defender one on one. Even in the red bull game where he had every opportunity to show that he could do exactly that, he was extremely conservative with what he did in possession. That was the best opportunity he was gonna get to show he could play those types of passes that the elite playmakers in the league like Feilhaber, Morales, Maidana etc. make over and over again in every game. He did everything except for that, and we won that game because Ronald Zubar forgot how to use his legs and Seba is the greatest human to ever live. without those two moments I think we're having a very different discussion about that performance.

Bradley offers so much more with his dynamism and ability to either directly create chances on his own during the run of play or create space for others that it doesn't under any circumstance make sense for him to play under Osorio and vice-versa. Osorio and Bradley's play in the diamond are intrinsically linked and entirely necessary to one and other as it is at the moment. We shouldn't fuck with that.

If anyone has access to Opta stats I'd gladly welcome them into this dialogue. A clearer statistical picture is always nice.

[molenshtain]

Why haven't we sped up Uccello's development? wasn't he supposed to be like the best player this country's ever produced?

[OgtheDim]

Interesting discussion about Mark Bloom in the TFC post game report (http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/02/toronto-fc-earns-4-0-win-over-cal-state-fullerton).

[notthesun]

Just a quick note on this Osorio topic:


first off, a "key pass" under those rules is just the last pass before a shot. I'm fairly willing to be a lot of Oso's numbers in that stat come from him dumping the ball off to Giovinco, who took an ungodly amount of shots this season. That's an easy way to pad that stat.

This is a bit of an exaggeration, as they define key passes as leading directly to a shot on net (http://www.americansocceranalysis.com/explanation/). So Osorio passing sideways to Giovinco who then beats two guys and takes a shot wouldn't count as a key pass.

That being said, I agree with your overall point. Osorio plays a lot of passes in advanced territory, that are often difficult, but he doesn't play as many clear cut chance-creating balls as you'd expect a full-time attacking playmaker to make. His stats would seem to reflect this. He ranks relatively higher by a fair distance in number of key passes vs. quality of key passes. I think it's fair to say this is a good reflection of his ability to find guys in space where they can get a shot off, while most of the time those passes aren't defense-splitting balls. And for having a guy like Giovinco on the team, it's not a bad thing. Some of those types of passes from Osorio would become legitimate scoring chances for Giovinco while that is not reflected in Osorio's xA stats, since all the expected stats assume an average player taking the shot (e.g. his back heel flick-on to Giovinco for his 2nd goal vs. Colorado would probably not be worth much in xA value, but Giovinco is going to score that 9/10 times).

In short, Osorio plays both a lot of passes to keep possession and a lot of important passes that drive the play forward, but playing that final killer pass that unlocks the defense is not his strength. If there's a clear chance to do it he has the skill to pull it off, but I don't think he has the vision to "find" the types of passes that we as spectators or opposition back lines don't see coming on a consistent basis.

[barticusz]

What's more interesting is the formation we've been employing thus far. Definitely looks like we're headed toward a 4-3-3 this year.

Which definitely means that Oso is out of the starting 11.

Giovinco - Altidore - Gomez
Cheyrou - Bradley - Johnson
Morrow - Perquis - Moor - Beitashour

[notthesun]

What's more interesting is the formation we've been employing thus far. Definitely looks like we're headed toward a 4-3-3 this year.

Which definitely means that Oso is out of the starting 11.

Giovinco - Altidore - Gomez
Cheyrou - Bradley - Johnson
Morrow - Perquis - Moor - Beitashour

I wouldn't look that far ahead just yet. Missing Bradley and Johnson is a massive change to our midfield. I would wait to see what Vanney does in the preseason matches where both of them are back with the team.

[OgtheDim]

What's more interesting is the formation we've been employing thus far. Definitely looks like we're headed toward a 4-3-3 this year.

Which definitely means that Oso is out of the starting 11.

Giovinco - Altidore - Gomez
Cheyrou - Bradley - Johnson
Morrow - Perquis - Moor - Beitashour

If I saw that, I'd be putting a winger bombing down that left side right at Cheyrou.

[molenshtain]

What's more interesting is the formation we've been employing thus far. Definitely looks like we're headed toward a 4-3-3 this year.

Which definitely means that Oso is out of the starting 11.

Giovinco - Altidore - Gomez
Cheyrou - Bradley - Johnson
Morrow - Perquis - Moor - Beitashour


if we do use a 4-3-3 It's gonna be Johnson at the base with Bradley and Osorio beside him or Osorio in the three up top over Gomez. He was our third best player last year, no reason to leave him on the bench.

[barticusz]

I wouldn't look that far ahead just yet. Missing Bradley and Johnson is a massive change to our midfield. I would wait to see what Vanney does in the preseason matches where both of them are back with the team.

Though I agree with you to a certain extent, we've used a 4-3-3 in 3 of the 4 halves we played. If I'm the manager I get my guys accustomed to the formation and system I want them to play, regardless of if all the players are there yet.

On the flipside, maybe he's getting some more comfort in this formation so that everyones more comfortable to switch between this and the diamond depending on the opponent.

[burlington Red]

If I saw that, I'd be putting a winger bombing down that left side right at Cheyrou.


Exactly, a team with a speedy right winger and an attacking right full back would relish that all day long

[OgtheDim]

Not sure an attacking Right FB leaving Seba alone is a good idea but certainly that formation lacks speed on the left.

[notthesun]

Video of the goals are up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtNPSWOPudA

Uccello: http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/02/luca-uccello-goal-vs-cal-state-fullerton?autoplay=true

Babouli: http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/02/mo-bablouli-goal-vs-cal-state-fullerton?autoplay=true

Chapman: http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/02/jay-chapman-goal-vs-cal-state-fullerton?autoplay=true

[jloome]

eighth best Revs midfielder Kelyn Rowe

Other arguments aside, this is just silly. He's an exceptional player.

[bimmer]

Video of the goals are up.

Wow, great run/atrocious defending on that Chapman goal.. dude's got an engine for sure. Thanks for posting.

[noimpactinmtl]

Wow, great run/atrocious defending on that Chapman goal.. dude's got an engine for sure. Thanks for posting.

Two of the goals seem to have Chapman/ Uccello from the left flank cutting in.

Do we have a left footed forward who can do it on the right wing?

[Ajax TFC]

Two of the goals seem to have Chapman/ Uccello from the left flank cutting in.

Do we have a left footed forward who can do it on the right wing?
I believe Endoh is two footed and played right wing. Lovitz is also a left footed winger, but I don't think right wing is in his future. Vanney seems to see him as a left back

[C.Ronaldo]

Wow, great run/atrocious defending on that Chapman goal.. dude's got an engine for sure. Thanks for posting.

yah, he easily ran the lengnth of hte pitrch and then some in all the directions he went. He essentially out ran the defence who just didnt have the gas

[barticusz]

I like the pressure on the Babouli goal. Hope we continue to have that type of aggression in my MF.

[noimpactinmtl]

I believe Endoh is two footed and played right wing. Lovitz is also a left footed winger, but I don't think right wing is in his future. Vanney seems to see him as a left back

Isn't that a problem we love to have? Too many left footed fullbacks.

[Pint]

They are clearly videoing these games... just stream them. If Gavin Day can do it from the back waters of central america, i'm sure devang can do it from Cali.

[bimmer]

They are clearly videoing these games... just stream them. If Gavin Day can do it from the back waters of central america, i'm sure devang can do it from Cali.

It's possible that they don't want other MLS teams getting 90 minute scouting videos on what types of tactics/formations they're working on in pre season? Or maybe they didn't bring the right equipment? Or maybe they're just lazy?

[portu]

It's possible that they don't want other MLS teams getting 90 minute scouting videos on what types of tactics/formations they're working on in pre season? Or maybe they didn't bring the right equipment? Or maybe they're just lazy?

I'm calling lazy

[noimpactinmtl]

I'm calling lazy

Or their network is utter crap for streaming.

[Ajax TFC]

I can understand them not streaming the game since they might not have a connection there. But at least load the game to YouTube after

[Ajax TFC]

Isn't that a problem we love to have? Too many left footed fullbacks.

Never said it wasn't a good problem

[flamehawk]

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/01/tfc-ii-announce-2016-preseason-plans

TFC2 Pre-season schedule is out:

February 1 – First Day of Training
Saturday, February 20 – York University @ Kia Training Grounds, 1:00 p.m. ET
Friday, February 26 – Ottawa Fury @ Kia Training Grounds, 3:00 p.m. ET
Wednesday, March 2 – Depart to Vancouver
Friday, March 4 – Simon Fraser University @ SFU (time is TBD)
Sunday, March 6 – Whitecaps FC 2 @ SFU, 1:30 p.m. ET
Wednesday, March 9 – Seattle Sounders FC 2 @ Starfire Sportsplex (time is TBD)
Thursday, March 10 – Return to Toronto
Saturday, March 19 – Rochester Rhinos @ Kia Training Grounds, 3:00 p.m. ET


I asked if it was open to fans.

[portu]

I can understand them not streaming the game since they might not have a connection there. But at least load the game to YouTube after
Yeah if they've got footage of the full game why not post it afterwards????

[Stress]

Yeah if they've got footage of the full game why not post it afterwards????


Well if it's training footage, do you really want to make it available to your competition in order to please a small percentage of fans?

They played a college team and the starters only played one half. The pre season games against MLS competition are more likely to gain further attention.

[Red CB Toronto]

Seba enjoying some time out on the beach.

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12654169_466410840234275_6103652198979257327_n.jpg ?oh=8a2924e20913d466082d763b2b581a2d&oe=57249F76

[C.Ronaldo]

Seba enjoying some time out on the beach.

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12654169_466410840234275_6103652198979257327_n.jpg ?oh=8a2924e20913d466082d763b2b581a2d&oe=57249F76

NOOOOO

do not expose him to nice weather and state where the rich have it made

[notthesun]

Another scrimmage tonight, vs. PDL team Ventura County Fusion. Starters to get another 45 minutes.

Had a thought though... Simonin doesn't seem to have gotten a minute of playing time in these matches so far. Is he injured? He's on the preseason roster.

[Areathrasher]

Another scrimmage tonight, vs. PDL team Ventura County Fusion. Starters to get another 45 minutes.

Had a thought though... Simonin doesn't seem to have gotten a minute of playing time in these matches so far. Is he injured? He's on the preseason roster.

He's rehabing at KIA. Pics on his instagram.

[notthesun]

He's rehabing at KIA. Pics on his instagram.

Right, figured there was something. Thanks.

[Captain]

He's rehabing at KIA. Pics on his instagram.

What kind of injury did he have? Is it really normal that he has taken this long to get back up to speed?

[jloome]

Three games being streamed today on mlssoccer.com

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/02/03/mls-preseason-tracker-february-3

[spark]

Three games being streamed today on mlssoccer.com

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/02/03/mls-preseason-tracker-february-3

lol nice comment in that article

[Shway]

Toronto FC to Face Ventura County Fusion
(http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/03/toronto-fc-face-ventura-county-fusion)
Based on this report our CB depth chart seems to be:

1 . Moor - Perquis
2. Williams - Zavaleta
3. Hagglund - Thomas

.....whats up with Simonin.

[OgtheDim]

Simonin Rehabbing back in Toronto.

[portu]

Simonin Rehabbing back in Toronto.
What the hell again?

[Joe Kool]

What the hell again?

He needed a second surgery after rehabbing from the first one there was still a problem. Not sure if it was something in the rehab that prompted the second one or something didn't get fixed right in the first surgery maybe. I met him in the summer and talked to him a bit about it. He had potential so I guess that is why they are waiting to see if he can recover fully.

[OgtheDim]

Someone made the point on Twitter that Justin Morrow hasn't been seen in any preseason games or published photos.

[PopePouri]

Someone made the point on Twitter that Justin Morrow hasn't been seen in any preseason games or published photos.

Hes been in photos. He's sporting a new do.

[anto7]

31' GOAL GIOVINCO. Cheyrou plays a perfect ball over the top that beats the offside trap and sends Seba in all alone. 1-0 Reds. #TFCLive

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/695082768959672323

[jloome]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/695082768959672323

Good to see.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/695091820192210944

Just college teams, but a good preseason for Hamilton so far.

[jloome]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/695091820192210944

Just college teams, but a good preseason for Hamilton so far.

Mo, too. A goal and an assist in limited minutes.

[notthesun]

Mo, too. A goal and an assist in limited minutes.

Yup. If he can keep this up against MLS opposition I think he gets a contract by the end of preseason (he would be on the supplemental roster so no cap implications).

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/695097682273157121

[Blindside16]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/695097682273157121
Hopefully this is only minor and doesn't turn into a season long nagging injury.

[jloome]

Hopefully this is only minor and doesn't turn into a season long nagging injury.

Although on the bright side, we have at least three left-footed fullbacks now, so there's cover.

[Blindside16]

Although on the bright side, we have at least three left-footed fullbacks now, so there's cover.
I agree we are covered but I don't think any of them have the same attacking threat that Morrow brings. I really liked how they had him pressing up the wings and playing more of a box to box style last year. I don't think any of our other fullbacks can command that much of the field.

[Red CB Toronto]

Come on You Reds !!! Just had to say that !!!!

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZcHPIws-t0&feature=youtu.be


Seba goal last night.

Admittedly pretty crappy defence. CD caught ball watching while $8 million player runs past him, then puts up arm hoping for offside.

More interesting:

Watch how both he and Gomez instinctively go for the space down that left channel.

[notthesun]

Hamilton's 1st: http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/04/jordan-hamilton-goal-1-vs-vcf?autoplay=true

Hamilton's 2nd: http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/04/jordan-hamilton-goal-2-vs-vcf?autoplay=true

Really nice cut and pass from Babouli on the first, and good run from Hamilton. Looks like he tried to play it back across the box for the finish but scored on the deflection instead.

[MightyDM]

I agree we are covered but I don't think any of them have the same attacking threat that Morrow brings. I really liked how they had him pressing up the wings and playing more of a box to box style last year. I don't think any of our other fullbacks can command that much of the field.

Actually, Morgan can cover the ground, and he showed real improvement last year. He just not as strong defensively as Morrow.

[spark]

Actually, Morgan can cover the ground, and he showed real improvement last year. He just not as strong defensively as Morrow.

^ agreed, when in form Morgan is a better attacking threat than Morrow IMO. Morrow though far and away more steady in all categories.

[flamehawk]

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/01/tfc-ii-announce-2016-preseason-plans

TFC2 Pre-season schedule is out:

February 1 – First Day of Training
Saturday, February 20 – York University @ Kia Training Grounds, 1:00 p.m. ET
Friday, February 26 – Ottawa Fury @ Kia Training Grounds, 3:00 p.m. ET
Wednesday, March 2 – Depart to Vancouver
Friday, March 4 – Simon Fraser University @ SFU (time is TBD)
Sunday, March 6 – Whitecaps FC 2 @ SFU, 1:30 p.m. ET
Wednesday, March 9 – Seattle Sounders FC 2 @ Starfire Sportsplex (time is TBD)
Thursday, March 10 – Return to Toronto
Saturday, March 19 – Rochester Rhinos @ Kia Training Grounds, 3:00 p.m. ET


I asked if it was open to fans.

They responded. Looks like it's closed door :(

[notthesun]

Quick start to this one.

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/696047641373884417

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/696047996987949057

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/696057306983854080

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/696058462015455232

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/696064139354099713

He's ready. Sign him up.

[PopePouri]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/696064139354099713

He's ready. Sign him up.

Both of them.

[Richard]

Both of them.

Its tough with the limited roster spots available now.

[mowe]

Its tough with the limited roster spots available now.

Assign someone (Simonin most likely) to TFC2 for the whole year to free up a spot. Then sign both.

[portu]

Both of them.

Babouli I'm fine with, but Endoh we've only seen with us in like one video of a goal gifted to him

[portu]

Babouli probably replaces Moore on the roster

[notthesun]

It's important that we find a transfer for Moore now that Babouli is really establishing himself. Need to clear that roster spot. Endoh could get a contract also, though I see him spending time with TFC II as well.

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/696074628607930368

[jloome]

Babouli probably replaces Moore on the roster

A lot depends on Simonin's situation. I mean, even if he's back relatively early in the season, he still has to get up to game speed, at which point, he's still, at best, fourth on the depth chart.

I think he has great potential, and if we can get rid of Moore somehow before the roster has to be finalized, great. But if not, it makes more sense to me to drop a defender down, as we know have six CBs on the senior team.

[OgtheDim]

I would caution on suggesting anybody is establishing himself or going down based on preseason games not streamed.

[portu]

I would caution on suggesting anybody is establishing himself or going down based on preseason games not streamed.
I feel it's safe to make assumptions on Babouli however

[Ajax TFC]

We're going to run into problems at the back again this season if we drop Simonin to TFC II. History has taught us that 5 CBs isn't enough. I'd also rate him as our fourth, possibly third CB when fit. If he's going to be out long term, then we get the roster spot back anyways. If not, then for the love of sport, send down someone who isn't going to actually be needed like Hamilton.

[bimmer]

We're going to run into problems at the back again this season if we drop Simonin to TFC II. History has taught us that 5 CBs isn't enough. I'd also rate him as our fourth, possibly third CB when fit. If he's going to be out long term, then we get the roster spot back anyways. If not, then for the love of sport, send down someone who isn't going to actually be needed like Hamilton.

5 CBs for a team that essentially plays in one competition is already excessive imo. Perquis is the only regular injury threat so 4 CBs would be ideal, with Morrow being able to shift over if we're desperate enough to need a 5th.

[Ajax TFC]

5 CBs for a team that essentially plays in one competition is already excessive imo. Perquis is the only regular injury threat so 4 CBs would be ideal, with Morrow being able to shift over if we're desperate enough to need a 5th.
And yet it took seven different CBs, plus Morrow playing at CB to get through last season. We shouldn't really need more than 4 cbs, but we will. We always do. CB is also probably the one position where you don't want to have to deputize players from other positions. With midfield and attack, you can change around your formation to suit the players you have available, but you pretty much always need two CBs.

[OgtheDim]

5 CBs for a team that essentially plays in one competition is already excessive imo. Perquis is the only regular injury threat so 4 CBs would be ideal, with Morrow being able to shift over if we're desperate enough to need a 5th.

Last year every defender but Williams and Kantari were injured at some point.

Most teams carry 5. Injuries to CD's happen. We used 8 last season.

[Auzzy]

Last year every defender but Williams and Kantari were injured at some point.

Most teams carry 5. Injuries to CD's happen. We used 8 last season.

Even Kantari was injured at times: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/06/late-goal-guts-tfc-in-seattle

[bimmer]

And yet it took seven different CBs, plus Morrow playing at CB to get through last season. We shouldn't really need more than 4 cbs, but we will. We always do. CB is also probably the one position where you don't want to have to deputize players from other positions. With midfield and attack, you can change around your formation to suit the players you have available, but you pretty much always need two CBs.

I feel like we're suffering from recency bias here. Yes, we "used" seven CBs last year but that number is slightly misleading since Kantari was brought in to replace Caldwell, Simonin only played like once when we had a perfect storm of injuries (Caldwell/Perquis/Zavaleta all out the same week) and Williams wasn't entirely brought in to cover for injuries, he was brought in because our defence was ungodly crap - Hagglund was available but played less than 10 minutes after he came back from his appendix surgery.

I'm not trying to diminish the importance of CBs or having depth in that position, I'm just saying it seems unlikely that we're going to have 3 players out injured at the same time again or have to deal with mid season retirements and whatnot. Just look at the year previous, we got by ok with Caldwell, Henry, Hagglund and Agbossoumonde(I think?). The year before that we also had some crazy things happen like the O'Dea mid season transfer and Califf mid season retirement but I still don't think we used more than 5 different CBs total? Obviously without roster restrictions I'd like to have 5+ CBs but with the roster as it is, I think asking for MORE than 5 is overkill.


Last year every defender but Williams and Kantari were injured at some point.

Most teams carry 5. Injuries to CD's happen. We used 8 last season.

I could be wrong but I can't remember any MLS team carrying 5 or more CBs on their senior roster at the beginning of last season. I thought most carried 4 and usually one or two guys loaned to USL like we did?

[Ajax TFC]

I feel like we're suffering from recency bias here. Yes, we "used" seven CBs last year but that number is slightly misleading since Kantari was brought in to replace Caldwell, Simonin only played like once when we had a perfect storm of injuries (Caldwell/Perquis/Zavaleta all out the same week) and Williams wasn't entirely brought in to cover for injuries, he was brought in because our defence was ungodly crap - Hagglund was available but played less than 10 minutes after he came back from his appendix surgery.

I'm not trying to diminish the importance of CBs or having depth in that position, I'm just saying it seems unlikely that we're going to have 3 players out injured at the same time again or have to deal with mid season retirements and whatnot. Just look at the year previous, we got by ok with Caldwell, Henry, Hagglund and Agbossoumonde(I think?). The year before that we also had some crazy things happen like the O'Dea mid season transfer and Califf mid season retirement but I still don't think we used more than 5 different CBs total? Obviously without roster restrictions I'd like to have 5+ CBs but with the roster as it is, I think asking for MORE than 5 is overkill.
Okay, so you drop Simonin to the USL for the whole season. Keeping in mind that we don't have cap space to replace him with anyone not on league minimum, who do you bring in in his place that will have more of an impact this season?

Right now we're talking one of these players going to TFC II: Hamilton, Babouli, Endoh, or Simonin. If you send down Simonin, the fourth CB is going to be Zavaleta, and you'll have seven attackers competing for two spots. Or, you can send down Hamilton for the season, have Simonin available when he's fit, and have Babouli and Endoh as the young backups up front.

The way I see it, Simonin is the 4th CB in the depth chart as it is, and so we're already starting one CB down. With Perquis as a starter, it's a matter of time before our CB situation is Moor - Williams and Zavaleta and Hagglund on the bench. I'd be a lot more comfortable with Simonin back in there.

[OgtheDim]

Oh, I hear you. I just think 4 is asking for trouble.

By "carry 5" I mean have 5 CD's available. Most teams carry 5 that are usable in league games and use all 5 throughout the season.

Personally, I think we have 1 too many defenders and I would not be surprised if Hagglund was dealt.

[Ajax TFC]

Oh, I hear you. I just think 4 is asking for trouble.

By "carry 5" I mean have 5 CD's available. Most teams carry 5 that are usable in league games and use all 5 throughout the season.

Personally, I think we have 1 too many defenders and I would not be surprised if Hagglund was dealt.
Problem is, we can't deal Hagglund if Simonin is out. We'd be a Perquis injury away from having only Zavaleta in reserve

[portu]

Problem is, we can't deal Hagglund if Simonin is out. We'd be a Perquis injury away from having only Zavaleta in reserve

We should loan one of Hagglund or Simonin to another MLS team

[PopePouri]

Problem is, we can't deal Hagglund if Simonin is out. We'd be a Perquis injury away from having only Zavaleta in reserve

Or Josh Williams.

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zF7gOPQe9s&feature=youtu.be

Preseason but nice to see Seba do that stop and score. That was Lovitz down the left BTW.

[notthesun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypNU8g4FfNI

[Ajax TFC]

We should loan one of Hagglund or Simonin to another MLS team
And how exactly would that solve the problem of being one injury away from only having Zavaleta on the bench? My whole point is that we need Simonin on THIS team. I'd rather send him on a temp loan to TFC II than to another MLS team if we need to get him minutes. But we're talking about roster spots, so temp loans to the USL are irrelevant to the discussion since they don't free up roster space

[notthesun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnjVDqOkQI

[PopePouri]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypNU8g4FfNI

"Fucking hell man. Fucking get tight to 'im" - Keane

[notthesun]

Wrap up from the day (http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/07/tfc-top-galaxy-end-southern-california-sojourn) with some quotes on Babouli and Endoh. Liking the sound of this:


Giovinco is picking up where he left off in 2015, scoring four goals in three preseason games. But it was the play of two youngsters that became the biggest story to emerge from the past 10 days.

Babouli and 2016 first round pick Tsubasa Endoh were standouts in Southern California, so much so that it’s possible both are on the first team roster when the Reds travel to Red Bull Arena for the season opener on March 6th.

“They definitely have a shot,” said head coach Greg Vanney following the match. “They’re two guys who have taken on the responsibilities we’ve given them for their positions. They’ve done so professionally in a way where they don’t look shy against the opponent regardless if it was the three teams we played before or today against the Galaxy.”

Veteran defender Drew Moor echoed his head coach’s sentiments.

“Endoh and Mo have been fantastic so far this preseason and really all the young guys,” said Moor.

“You can just tell they want to learn and they’re hungry to be involved. To be able to play with and learn from some of the players we have, to be in hotels with them and to be in meals with them. Some of these guys are ready to start games with the first team. Whether they do or not is not up to them, it’s up to the coaches, but it’s always good to have a deep squad. You saw today there’s plenty of guys on this team that can start when March 6th rolls around.”

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypNU8g4FfNI

LOL, preseason, no wonder Seba ain't celebrating.

He takes a throw in, throwing it too far for Endoh, gets a bounce off the LA defender right to him, then the LAG midfielder doesn't' close him down when he charges into the area. I noticed the LAG defender shoved the midfielder in the back right after as much as telling him "GET UP ON HIM".

[Jpexxx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypNU8g4FfNI

Does anyone know who's wearing 32? Makes the run and touch for Gio?

[portu]

Does anyone know who's wearing 32? Makes the run and touch for Gio?

Charpie

[Jpexxx]

Charpie

Thanks.

[anto7]

I know they are only pre-season games and don't mean a whole lot, however isn't it quite refreshing to actually win some of these games for a change. In seasons past we have struggled to even get wins against college and university teams and then we all make excuses and pretend we have nothing to worry about since the games don't mean anything lol.

[Defoe]

I know they are only pre-season games and don't mean a whole lot, however isn't it quite refreshing to actually win some of these games for a change. In seasons past we have struggled to even get wins against college and university teams and then we all make excuses and pretend we have nothing to worry about since the games don't mean anything lol.

MLS has made it when our reserve teams can handle College/ University teams with ease in their first tune games with pure skill.


I'm very excited to see LA Galaxy this year. They have a lot of old players but I think people are forgetting about a lot of their youth as well. I hope they can take CCL and put MLS higher on the food chain.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm very excited to see LA Galaxy this year. They have a lot of old players but I think people are forgetting about a lot of their youth as well. I hope they can take CCL and put MLS higher on the food chain.
Might be just the way I see it but I get the impression Arena doesn't prioritize that competition.

[Blindside16]

Might be just the way I see it but I get the impression Arena doesn't prioritize that competition.
I agree. To me i get the impression that Arena just rolls his line up and lets whatever will be, be. I am interested to see how the Galaxy mesh as a team with all the off season movement.

[Yohan]

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/02/09/mls-academies-french-football-federation-coaching-development

Interesting article on how FFA is working with MLS.

With details about the coaching course Vanney took few years ago

[OgtheDim]

Media (at least Molinaro) at practice today.

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/697459098116366336

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/697455973410148352

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/697460570585460736

[OgtheDim]

Videos up on the TFC site - mostly innocuous stuff

Johnson (http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/10/ive-played-different-positions-midfield-im-ready-play-and-fit-anywhere-im-needed?autoplay=true)

Bradley (http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/10/weve-made-some-good-additions-team-excited-start-season-michael-bradley?autoplay=true)

Altidore (http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/10/new-additions-have-been-exactly-what-we-needed-theyll-bring-energy-and-quality-jozy?autoplay=true)

Giovinco (http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/10/preseason-has-been-good-start-regular-season-total-different-sebastian-giovinco?autoplay=true)


*******

Vanney up on the Youtube channel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjynQSE5X9o

[Detroit_TFC]

The preseason tourney hosted by Tampa Bay Rowdies will be available on YouTube. This includes TFC v IMFC on 2/24 4pm ET and Philly v TFC on 2/27 4pm.

http://www.rowdiessoccer.com/news/2016/02/10/all-rowdies-suncoast-invitational-matches-to-be-broadcast-on-youtube

[Blindside16]

The preseason tourney hosted by Tampa Bay Rowdies will be available on YouTube. This includes TFC v IMFC on 2/24 4pm ET and Philly v TFC on 2/27 4pm.

http://www.rowdiessoccer.com/news/2016/02/10/all-rowdies-suncoast-invitational-matches-to-be-broadcast-on-youtube

NICE!!! :flare:

[Red CB Toronto]

A pre-season battle in the locker room.

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12662704_10153204219136621_2036704121672531216_n.j pg?oh=09edfcbe409fb67712facda855585d8b&oe=572C08E8

[Ultra & Proud]

The Osorio pre-season hairdo?

Just no.

[OgtheDim]

The Osorio pre-season hairdo?

Just no.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbCDqXyW0AU-wqa.jpg

[gdg_9]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbCDqXyW0AU-wqa.jpg


Going for the Stroman look?

[mistercorporate]

W...T...F... smoking too much of the good stuff, cut that hair or transfer out, it's bad for morale :P

[Kaz]

I know they are only pre-season games and don't mean a whole lot, however isn't it quite refreshing to actually win some of these games for a change. In seasons past we have struggled to even get wins against college and university teams and then we all make excuses and pretend we have nothing to worry about since the games don't mean anything lol.
Shhh

2012 we only lost 1 pre-season game. Won 3 tied 2.... started the season with 9 losses in a row. Pre Season results literally mean nothing in fact winning them actually makes me nervous. :P

[Ajax TFC]

We've had shit seasons after shit preseasons, and shit seasons after good preseasons. Historically speaking, we're going to have a shit season no matter how we do in preseason. For the history of TFC, there isn't anything that is an indicator of success to come because we've never had success. So like every year, take preseason for what it is and hope for the best.

[Richard]

We've had shit seasons after shit preseasons, and shit seasons after good preseasons. Historically speaking, we're going to have a shit season no matter how we do in preseason. For the history of TFC, there isn't anything that is an indicator of success to come because we've never had success. So like every year, take preseason for what it is and hope for the best.

What we have this year is the most depth we have ever had, of course the league has improved so we still don't quite know how it will all add up.

[Yohan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4dIxMaDoP4

A bit off topic.

A documentary about how A League supporters won against arbitrary bans by FFA. Considering fan troubles are always a concern in MLS too

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/699345164507152385

[portu]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/699345164507152385
Uggghh

[flamehawk]

Uggghh

I've been wondering, if TFC was able to schedule friendlies in Toronto, how many would attend? I've been so football-starved that I was trying to see if I was allowed to attend the TFC 2 friendlies (too bad this is not allowed).

[ag futbol]

I've been wondering, if TFC was able to schedule friendlies in Toronto, how many would attend? I've been so football-starved that I was trying to see if I was allowed to attend the TFC 2 friendlies (too bad this is not allowed).
Think that's not a bad idea. MLS's version of spring training... Could be a nice thought for the future.

[OgtheDim]

Little nugget in the latest in house interview from camp, this time with Altidore. http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/16/jozy-altidore-eager-find-next-gear-reds


Devang says,

The forwards have been asked to press more during the preseason thus far and cutoff escape valves for the opposing team’s defence

[notthesun]

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/02/16/match-preview-toronto-fc-vs-orlando-city-b

Match vs Orlando City B today at 12:30 ET. Projected lineup is another 4-3-3, with a midfield trio of Osorio, Bradley and Johnson. With the latter two back in camp and us still going 4-3-3, it definitely looks like that will be our main approach for this season. I also see that midfield being our first choice, with Cheyrou off the bench.

I think a 4-3-3 can work, but I have some concerns... namely, whether Giovinco will be as effective on the wing (I don't doubt he'll be as deadly offensively, I'm just worried he might burn himself out since you'd expect him to have more defensive responsibilities) and whether Bradley can restrain himself from bombing forward at every opportunity in the middle.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/700005138140946432

Good to see that Morrow is ready for some game action now.

[Areathrasher]

Currently 1-0 Orlando

https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/700015850229755904

[Red CB Toronto]

Second Half Lineup

#TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash) XI for second half: Roberts; Lovitz, Zavaleta, Hagglund, Charpie; Chapman, Cheyrou, Mannella; Babouli, Gomez, Hamilton. #TFCLive (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFCLive?src=hash)

[Detroit_TFC]

I'm interpreting the lack of updates on Twitter as things aren't going great.

[Areathrasher]

I'm interpreting the lack of updates on Twitter as things aren't going great.

https://twitter.com/TheManeLand/status/700031310115561472

[Detroit_TFC]

OK! Better! How about some goalz then!

[Detroit_TFC]

No goalz. FT 1-0 OCB.

[Detroit_TFC]

The torches and pitchforks are over on the table, please form two orderly lines...

[Ivy]

https://twitter.com/TheManeLand/status/700031310115561472
TFC didn't score?? Weirdest thing I've heard since 2014.

[Initial B]

if they are going to keep this 4-3-3 (this could be a smokescreen for a diamond 4-4-2 at the start of the season), I'm thinking Endoh is going to be our starting winger and Cheyrou is going to be a super sub. I assume they're going with Endoh since they couldn't come to terms with Boakai. <edit: it looks like he's going here: http://www.liberiansoccer.com/index.php/sports/item/373-canadian-liberian-hanson-boakai-moves-to-hajduk-split-football-club-in-croatia >

[OgtheDim]

Babouli Gomez and Hamilton didn't score for 45 minutes in a preseason game against a USL team also in preseason - I can just see the overreaction talking points being gathered.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Babouli Gomez and Hamilton didn't score for 45 minutes in a preseason game against a USL team also in preseason - I can just see the overreaction talking points being gathered.

It's only taking this long because the game wasn't streamed.:willy_nilly: