TFC 2015-2016 Off-Season player moves/speculation/rumours/etc.

[Oldtimer]

Now with the season ended, it's time to start a new thread.

Post your speculation/information/etc. here in this thread!

Confirmed (by traditional media or the club) signings get a separate single thread in the "News" section. All other "inside" and other information goes here.

[TFC/Everton]

Silly season!

[SirBobSaget]

So who is on expiring contracts? A lot of cap space hogs need to be cleared out.

[tfcleeds]

A whole lot of players = Get Rid.

[portu]

So who is on expiring contracts? A lot of cap space hogs need to be cleared out.
Bigger question is who do we use our buy out on? Findley, Perquis, Kantari, Herc, Moore all have 1 year left on their current deals going by the General 2+2 rule of MLS contracts

[ensco]

I would like to see some stability in the playing roster. We improved to 500, it's progress.

If Bradley scores instead of hitting the crossbar late Sunday, we'd have had a game here, and this season wouldn't feel quite so bad.

I do think it's likely 2 of the DPs could be gone, though.

[OgtheDim]

Under the proviso that I'm not sure this braintrust can actually take a serious look at their acquistions

Keeper

Upgrade preferred
Trade Bendik

CD

Keep Perquis
Upgrade on the 2nd starter needed, younger with a right foot
Keep Williams, Simonin, Zaveletta as backup
Trade / ditch Kantari


LB

Stay the course


RB

Upgrade necessary
Keep Bloom as backup
Trade Jackson


LM

Keep Osorio & Lovitz

RM

Upgrade necessary
Keep Delgado as he might be next season's Osorio break out player
Somehow trade Findley

Central Mids

Get a real stud DM
Bradley ain't going anywhere
Cheyrou might need to retire
Keep Warner & Chapman as backup


Forward

Seba (are you freaking nuts - he's staying - tonight just got him pissed - he's scoring 28 next season - calling it now) & Jozy keep (Jozy is top 10 in scoring people - give it up, he's staying)
Keep Gomez
Trade ditch Moore & Hamilton

[Ultra & Proud]

What Og said + upgrade the manager position.

[portu]

Under the proviso that I'm not sure this braintrust can actually take a serious look at their acquistions

Keeper

Upgrade preferred
Trade Bendik

CD

Keep Perquis
Upgrade on the 2nd starter needed, younger with a right foot
Keep Williams, Simonin, Zaveletta as backup
Trade / ditch Kantari


LB

Stay the course


RB

Upgrade necessary
Keep Bloom as backup
Trade Jackson


LM

Keep Osorio & Lovitz

RM

Upgrade necessary
Keep Delgado as he might be next season's Osorio break out player
Somehow trade Findley

Central Mids

Get a real stud DM
Bradley ain't going anywhere
Cheyrou might need to retire
Keep Warner & Chapman as backup


Forward

Seba (are you freaking nuts - he's staying - tonight just got him pissed - he's scoring 28 next season - calling it now) & Jozy keep (Jozy is top 10 in scoring people - give it up, he's staying)
Keep Gomez
Trade ditch Moore & Hamilton
You didn't address Hagglund at CB or Konopka at Keeps... I would trade Hagglund, buyout Kantari, trade Herc (he's old don't get emotional guys), Keep Moore and cmon Jozy has to go guys injury prone, misses games for USMNT and is inconsistent anyways <- that's just in addition to what you said

[OgtheDim]

Yeah, I was humming and hawing about Hagglund - trade him.

Moore? His head isn't here anymore. And he's not the wide body striker a guy like Seba needs to pair off of.

And Jozy had probably the 4th best ever forward season for us, behind Seba, DeRo and Koevs. 1 goal every 133 minutes.

He's got issues but that's pretty darn good production.

[Ultra & Proud]

Best case scenario we dump Findley, Moore, Kantari, Vanney, and Bendik.

Maybe move/lose some of Cheyrou, Gomez, Perquis, and Bez.

Sign only mid or upper mid range, legit MLS players. Maybe from re-entry draft. No overseas experiments who cost near DP bucks. Try to balance the squad better and FFS focus on defence and sign a legit, true DM.

[notthesun]

In my opinion...

Out:

Bendik
Kantari
Hagglund
Aparicio
Findley
Moore

In:

GK - dependable starter
CB - to start alongside Perquis (preferably with MLS experience but I don't know how many starting quality CBs will be available)
RB - to start with Bloom as backup
DM - use TAM money to lock up a stay-at-home DM with Cheyrou moving to a bench role. Oriol Rosell would be ideal.
RM - takes Findley/Delgado/Warner's spot in the 11.
ST - backup for Altidore (stay within MLS for this)
Sign Babouli to a first team contract to serve as Giovinco's understudy and fill in wherever he can get minutes

Everyone else stays.

Shedding Bendik, Kantari, Findley and Moore frees up a little under $1 million in cap space, plenty to sign the most pressing needs. Allocation and potentially shedding 1 more contract (next up would be either Jackson or Gomez) would give us all the space we need.

We are really not that far away. We need balance in the team so that we don't need to score 3 to win a game. If we can get the CB and DM signings right in particular, we're in business.

[ag futbol]

I don't see why we can't tap other markets if we had actual ability to scout players.

It blows my mind that Vancouver signs a starting quality RB (in addition to the one they already have) for the simple fact the guy they have is getting older and "might" not resign or will need to be pushed for his spot next year. Meanwhile, TFC, which had a far greater need for a RB, basically spent months on end doing nothing before trading for a guy who primarily was used as a CB and fielded hot garbage at the position for the majority of the season.
"

[jloome]

I would like to see some stability in the playing roster. We improved to 500, it's progress.

If Bradley scores instead of hitting the crossbar late Sunday, we'd have had a game here, and this season wouldn't feel quite so bad.

I do think it's likely 2 of the DPs could be gone, though.

Fuck Jozy Altidore. I've defended the guy online for two years but his effort was just disgraceful for much of this season. He had 16 shots on net all season. All season. The fact that he managed to bundle in some goals is all well and good, but I think we all know the way he plays he could just as easily get eight next season.Sixteen shots in a whole season? That'sf fucking ridiculous.

ANd as you and others pointed out earlier this year, Bradley seems to really run this team, and he's just not as good as he obviously thinks he is. If he's staying, we need a tough, experienced manager who'll keep his ass to a series of prescribed roles, and not let him play like the drifting two-way midfielder from hell.

Perquis was redeeming himself toward the end of year; he's not a number one though and on his money is way too expensive. Kantari is a fucking bust. Zavaleta and Hagglund both have potential but too little experience; neither is Birnbaum-ready to start, even with a good coach.

[MightyDM]

Under the proviso that I'm not sure this braintrust can actually take a serious look at their acquistions

Keeper

Upgrade preferred
Trade Bendik

CD

Keep Perquis
Upgrade on the 2nd starter needed, younger with a right foot
Keep Williams, Simonin, Zaveletta as backup
Trade / ditch Kantari


LB

Stay the course


RB

Upgrade necessary
Keep Bloom as backup
Trade Jackson


LM

Keep Osorio & Lovitz

RM

Upgrade necessary
Keep Delgado as he might be next season's Osorio break out player
Somehow trade Findley

Central Mids

Get a real stud DM
Bradley ain't going anywhere
Cheyrou might need to retire
Keep Warner & Chapman as backup


Forward

Seba (are you freaking nuts - he's staying - tonight just got him pissed - he's scoring 28 next season - calling it now) & Jozy keep (Jozy is top 10 in scoring people - give it up, he's staying)
Keep Gomez
Trade ditch Moore & Hamilton

no, there is a lot wrong. You are keeping the same team except for Findley and Jackson! Come on!

[ag futbol]

Why are people proposing we ditch a 19 year old kid that still has loads up upside? Seems kinda crazy, especially when he can be stashed on TFC II.

[notthesun]

Why are people proposing we ditch a 19 year old kid that still has loads up upside? Seems kinda crazy, especially when he can be stashed on TFC II.

I guess I didn't consider that, so that would be fine. I'm not sure how much upside Hagglund really has though to be honest. Zavaleta looks better, Simonin looks better (haven't seen much of him but I liked the little I saw), Skyler Thomas on TFCII had a good year as well. He's got a bunch of prospects to compete with at CB now and we have enough depth CBs on the roster.

[Soccerpro]

It would be great if TFC went and signed some Latin American talent the way that Vancouver and Dallas did this year. But hey, expensive mediocre American players are great too.

[Auzzy]

It would be great if TFC went and signed some Latin American talent the way that Vancouver and Dallas did this year. But hey, expensive mediocre American players are great too.

Hey don't forget to mix it up with some expensive mediocre European players! Plus they will be even harder to trade in MLS than Americans, ya gotta maximize the disbenefit!

[Soccerpro]

Hey don't forget to mix it up with some expensive mediocre European players! Plus they will be even harder to trade in MLS than Americans, ya gotta maximize the disbenefit!

Yes.

do TFC even have scouts? And if so, do they go to South America?

[Doucet3]

Simply got to say. MLS VETS, ffs can we stop with the kantaris and bringing in euro players for a lottery pick player?. Get some MLS vets and I think a proper run to and IN the playoffs is a realistic chance..

[OgtheDim]

no, there is a lot wrong. You are keeping the same team except for Findley and Jackson! Come on!

Uh, read it again. I'm suggesting we need 5 new starters.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Uh, read it again. I'm suggesting we need 5 new starters.

think hes being sarcastic

[Ossington Mental Youth]

In my opinion...

Out:

Bendik
Kantari
Hagglund
Aparicio
Findley
Moore

In:

GK - dependable starter
CB - to start alongside Perquis (preferably with MLS experience but I don't know how many starting quality CBs will be available)
RB - to start with Bloom as backup
DM - use TAM money to lock up a stay-at-home DM with Cheyrou moving to a bench role. Oriol Rosell would be ideal.
RM - takes Findley/Delgado/Warner's spot in the 11.
ST - backup for Altidore (stay within MLS for this)
Sign Babouli to a first team contract to serve as Giovinco's understudy and fill in wherever he can get minutes

Everyone else stays.



about right to me, think Hagglund will leave only because he doesnt seem to be in Vanneys plans, seems decent enough tho.
Think we need a starting RB, Keeper and a destroyer DM, probably forgetting something but i just got off a night shift

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Not ready to throw Jozy out yet, still scored quite a few goals but he also drifted in and out of games.

[ensco]

We need a 10th anniversary Tuxedo kit, btw

http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/06/hummel-v-varen-nagasaki-tuxedo-kit.html

[Areathrasher]

Time to win the offesason again :lol:

GK,RB,RW,CDM needed.

Feel like we are stuck with Perquis and Kantari though.

Hopefuly we dump a few players into the re-entry draft.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

We need a 10th anniversary Tuxedo kit, btw

http://www.footyheadlines.com/2015/06/hummel-v-varen-nagasaki-tuxedo-kit.html

cosign or the beer and/or squid kits

[jazzy]

It would be great if TFC went and signed some Latin American talent the way that Vancouver and Dallas did this year. But hey, expensive mediocre American players are great too.

We are so trapped . It was all to see last night . The talent if there didn't show . And now we have to make diamonds out of coal . If we have talent on this team , then 'someone' doesn't know how to use them or motivate them . We have a serious problem that can be fixed by adding or dropping finge players ? I hope in my lifetime we can develop the team around 1 player only , Gio . Enjoy him while he lasts . EG Montreal realizes Drogba is their key . Not Bradley .

[SenorDingDong]

The DP's all stay.

We need to surround them with better players.

Were almost there to a good team. No need for mass and radical change to start tfc from ground zero again.

[Ultra & Proud]

We are so trapped . It was all to see last night . The talent if there didn't show . And now we have to make diamonds out of coal . If we have talent on this team , then 'someone' doesn't know how to use them or motivate them . We have a serious problem that can be fixed by adding or dropping finge players ? I hope in my lifetime we can develop the team around 1 player only , Gio . Enjoy him while he lasts . EG Montreal realizes Drogba is their key . Not Bradley .

Bang, there you go.

[vortexdr]

Should of gone for Cambiasso or Essien before they signed in Greece. Cant see how their getting paid huge money with the country defaulting on their loans.

DeJong would be epic to get but recently signed an extension with Milan :(

[Initial B]

Positions that need an upgrade (in reverse order of priority): RM, RB, GM, Coach, DM, CB, GK, Scout.

[Ultra & Proud]

Positions that need an upgrade (in reverse order of priority): RM, RB, GM, Coach, DM, CB, GK, Scout.
I agree but I think I'd lower the need of GM back one spot because I think Manning could do the job in interim.

[C.Ronaldo]

Not ready to throw Jozy out yet, still scored quite a few goals but he also drifted in and out of games.

what happened to his speed and strong shot that use to always burn us when he was with NYRB

[Detroit_TFC]

Yeah, I was humming and hawing about Hagglund - trade him.

Moore? His head isn't here anymore. And he's not the wide body striker a guy like Seba needs to pair off of.

And Jozy had probably the 4th best ever forward season for us, behind Seba, DeRo and Koevs. 1 goal every 133 minutes.

He's got issues but that's pretty darn good production.

We've got 99 problems but Jozy ain't one of them. 13 goals. It seems to be more difficult than it should be to get casual observers to understand that.

[pdubs]

Findley: $225,000 Base, $255,500 G ---> must go, limited value.
Moore: $215,000 Base, $235,500 G
Kantari: $300,000 Base, $345,000 G ---> must go, bloated contract and is not a starter.
Gomez: $240,000 Base, $261,000 G ---> like him, not in Vanney's plans.
Bendik: $150,000 Base, $157,000 G
Perquis: $323,000 Base, $372,500 G ---> Keep, needs a #1 to play beside tho.

Kantari should be bought out. Trade Findley, sell Moore or Gomez. Not sure if a team will take Bendik on a middle of a road salary, not high end keeper $, not backup either.

Can't see us cleaning house completely tho.

Not really worried about Jozy or anyone else. This group above makes or breaks us I feel. Need a legit #1 Keeper, #1 CB and a DM at minimum. I hate Findley and even tho I said he must go we also need to be realistic.

Wages:

https://www.mlsplayers.org/images/September%2015%202015%20Salary%20Information%20-%20By%20Club.pdf

[SenorDingDong]

The DP's are the furthest from the problems.

Here are my needs in order of importance:

1.) A Consistent reliable Goal Keeper - Anybody remember when Julio Cesar was here last season briefly? He instantly made our back line much more calm and confident, by his own confident demeanour in net himself. We need someone reliable who can boss the defence.

2.) New Center Backs and Full backs - This one goes without saying. Perquis can stay but we need defenders of a much higher caliber.

3.) New Center DM - We need someone who is basically a younger version of Cheyrou. I hope Cheyrou stays, he had a good season here but when he is out we have no one to replace him or back him up when he's out. I would reach out to Italy and see if Antonio Nocerino is willing to come. He has fallen out of favor at Milan.

4.) New Striker to backup Altidore - I dont mind Gomez and would be happy if he stays but Findley and Moore aren't good enough.

[pdubs]

The DP's are the furthest from the problems.

Here are my needs in order of importance:

1.) A Consistent reliable Goal Keeper - Anybody remember when Julio Cesar was here last season briefly? He instantly made our back line much more calm and confident, by his own confident demeanour in net himself. We need someone reliable who can boss the defence.

2.) New Center Backs and Full backs - This one goes without saying. Perquis can stay but we need defenders of a much higher caliber.

3.) New Center DM - We need someone who is basically a younger version of Cheyrou. I hope Cheyrou stays, he had a good season here but when he is out we have no one to replace him or back him up when he's out. I would reach out to Italy and see if Antonio Nocerino is willing to come. He has fallen out of favor at Milan.

4.) New Striker to backup Altidore - I dont mind Gomez and would be happy if he stays but Findley and Moore aren't good enough.

Well said. This is what I am thinking as well.

[David_Oliveira]

I agree with most but partially disagree with point 2. I think Morrow is more than capable at LB or RB. We also have Ashtone to play at LB. I think we do need a solid CD pairing though.

Seems like every year we all ssay the same thing. How can we see the issue year after year and the FO not see it?


The DP's are the furthest from the problems.

Here are my needs in order of importance:

1.) A Consistent reliable Goal Keeper - Anybody remember when Julio Cesar was here last season briefly? He instantly made our back line much more calm and confident, by his own confident demeanour in net himself. We need someone reliable who can boss the defence.

2.) New Center Backs and Full backs - This one goes without saying. Perquis can stay but we need defenders of a much higher caliber.

3.) New Center DM - We need someone who is basically a younger version of Cheyrou. I hope Cheyrou stays, he had a good season here but when he is out we have no one to replace him or back him up when he's out. I would reach out to Italy and see if Antonio Nocerino is willing to come. He has fallen out of favor at Milan.

4.) New Striker to backup Altidore - I dont mind Gomez and would be happy if he stays but Findley and Moore aren't good enough.

[TFC Tifoso]

I wouldn't get rid of Jackson at all.....imo he perfectly fits the description of the "MLS veteran" every side needs to succeed and is versatile.....definitely better as a RM but can play RB if needed with a defensively responsible RM playing above him (ie. not Findley), and is just about the only player with speed that we have right now....he's certainly not a liability imo....imo our most underrated player.....

[C.Ronaldo]

I wouldn't get rid of Jackson at all.....imo he perfectly fits the description of the "MLS veteran" every side needs to succeed and is versatile.....definitely better as a RM but can play RB if needed with a defensively responsible RM playing above him (ie. not Findley), and is just about the only player with speed that we have right now....he's certainly not a liability imo....imo our most underrated player.....

agreed, jackson had one bad game, but often times was the only one touching the ball trying to put in crosses
a perfect jackson wouldnt have saved this game.

[Ultra & Proud]

Jackson was real bad yesterday but so was everyone. He did improve this year and he at least looked like he cared yesterday. Hard to say that about anyone else and I am including all our DPs in that one.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

what happened to his speed and strong shot that use to always burn us when he was with NYRB

Good question.
Is it him or us (the team)?
Does he need time or is he like this now?

[ag futbol]

Well said. This is what I am thinking as well.
No arguments here. I think that sums it up nicely.

Regarding Jackson: guy has been unreliable his whole MLS career, doubt that changes next year or any time after. If he stays it should be as a backup / utility player and for the love of god not as our starting RB. That play last night was a perfect example of the type of problem that has plagued his whole career - he makes poor decisions at the wrong time. FCD is not stupid, they traded him for a reason.

[starter]

Good question.
Is it him or us (the team)?
Does he need time or is he like this now?

Re: Jackson
It is the team.
The whole team is loose because of the poor coaching.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Re: Jackson
It is the team.
The whole team is loose because of the poor coaching.

Im talking about Altidore

[starter]

Im talking about Altidore

Oh, it could be something he learned from Luke, so it is a team. :)

[Ultra & Proud]

Good question.
Is it him or us (the team)?
Does he need time or is he like this now?
He was always too deep and for what he is, and I don't need to revisit the argument that he isn't a target man, he should be playing up top centrally and causing havoc in the box like Kamara. That alone would free us space for Seba and hopefully another non-Findley attacking option to come in behind. Instead he was always on wings or near midfield. Since it happened non-stop and was never adjusted when Luke Moore came on then I am saying it was by design and not Jozy going rogue. It's player mismanagement plain and simple.

[portu]

He was always too deep and for what he is, and I don't need to revisit the argument that he isn't a target man, he should be playing up top centrally and causing havoc in the box like Kamara. That alone would free us space for Seba and hopefully another non-Findley attacking option to come in behind. Instead he was always on wings or near midfield. Since it happened non-stop and was never adjusted when Luke Moore came on then I am saying it was by design and not Jozy going rogue. It's player mismanagement plain and simple.
Throughout the spell of games when Jozy was injured Luke was a great target forward, maybe not great in the air and such because he's relatively small, but he played like a target

[Ultra & Proud]

Throughout the spell of games when Jozy was injured Luke was a great target forward, maybe not great in the air and such because he's relatively small, but he played like a target
But then late in the season when he came on as a sub, after we ditched the diamond, he played just like Jozy.

[MightyDM]

I actually think we should sell or trade Michael Bradley to a US based team for the parts we need. I love his tenacity and drive, but we were just as good without him. He be a big catch for someone.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I actually think we should sell or trade Michael Bradley to a US based team for the parts we need. I love his tenacity and drive, but we were just as good without him. He be a big catch for someone.

Have to agree there were games where we didnt have him and we played if not better, dunno why but im still hesitant to let him go. Do think he does have a good relationship with Sebba too which kinda helps

[jazzy]

I actually think we should sell or trade Michael Bradley to a US based team for the parts we need. I love his tenacity and drive, but we were just as good without him. He be a big catch for someone.

Can you imagine a GM that had the balls to do that ? We'd be like the resurgent Blue Jays......and yet I'd be very sorry that he didn't work out , he's a very good man . I think it would be good for him too .

[OgtheDim]

Can you imagine a GM that had the balls to do that ? We'd be like the resurgent Blue Jays.....

Actually we'd be like the anti-Blue Jays.

[portu]

Honestly I'm really interested to see who we pick up to play keeper next season

[MightyDM]

Can you imagine a GM that had the balls to do that ? We'd be like the resurgent Blue Jays......and yet I'd be very sorry that he didn't work out , he's a very good man . I think it would be good for him too .

To be clear, I really really like Bradley, as a player and what I see as a person. But if we are honest, for some reason it doesn't work nearly often enough with him in the line up. Not clear why, but it just does not.

[Bobo]

Honestly I'm really interested to see who we pick up to play keeper next season

Theoretically speaking, an MLS club with any degree of competency shouldn't be too hard-pressed to find a decent keeper. Just loan in a promising young keeper from a decent European side that is looking for first-team experience. In many cases parent clubs will foot the bill which keeps cap space open. It's not as if keepers need much time to adjust to a new league/system. If for whatever it doesn't work out, terminate the loan and try again in the summer.

[ManUtd4ever]

I think Bradley could be a highly sought after commodity for the large market U.S. clubs. It's definitely an option worth exploring to gauge the potential market for him. If we can get a substantial return, I would move him.

[ronzilla]

It's highly likely that Giovinco will be gone next year for 5-6 weeks for the Euro tournament. Having Jozy leading the attack is going to be a big problem.

[Yohan]

Jozy scored 13 goals in 25 games, rate of 1 goal every 2 games.

[notthesun]

It's highly likely that Giovinco will be gone next year for 5-6 weeks for the Euro tournament. Having Jozy leading the attack is going to be a big problem.

He won't even be leading the attack at that time. Copa America Centenario runs June 3-26, and the Euros are June 10-July 10. We're going to play 5-6 consecutive games missing all 3 our of DPs.

It's imperative that we improve the depth on the roster this off-season. We have one month that's pretty well lined up to sink our season.

[MartinUtd]

I hope we keep Gomez.

[ronzilla]

He won't even be leading the attack at that time. Copa America Centenario runs June 3-26, and the Euros are June 10-July 10. We're going to play 5-6 consecutive games missing all 3 our of DPs.

It's imperative that we improve the depth on the roster this off-season. We have one month that's pretty well lined up to sink our season.

That's even if Jozy gets called up at all for Int. duty. He is by no means a lock on the US team.

The Reds cannot afford to drop 5-6 games next year, otherwise they will be fighting for the last playoff spot.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Jozy scored 13 goals in 25 games, rate of 1 goal every 2 games.

this seems to be looked over.
That being said he fades in and out of games, expect to see more from him either goals or otherwise in the next season

[portu]

I hope we keep Gomez.
I really don't get this why do people wanna keep a 33 year old guy on 200k+, pretty much all he offers is a great Twitter profile

[MartinUtd]

I really don't get this why do people wanna keep a 33 year old guy on 200k+, pretty much all he offers is a great Twitter profile

I tend to watch games more than twitter - has an eye for goal and still makes key passes that lead to chances. I'll take him over Findley and Moore despite his age. I saw more from Gomez in his 200 minutes that Vanney gave him than I saw from #55 all season. This sentiment is especially so when considering our third choice striker will be getting as many starts given international call ups (and red cards).

[Lennon]

OUT:

Altidore - misses too many games to USMNT, injury prone, and too expensive. We can do better for nearly 5 million.
Bendik - too expensive for a backup at 150k.
Bradley - makes nearly as much as Giovinco and hasn't been half the player he is. Like Altidore, he misses too many games to USMNT. Let's try to stay away from national team players eh?
Findley - improved a bit towards the end but not starter quality and too expensive to warm the bench.
Gomez - not in Vanney's plans, going to be 34 next year.
Kantari - not good enough. Probly on 150K+.
Moore - too expensive for a bench player. Hardly featured all year.
Perquis - not the stud CB we were all hoping for. Too expensive for a #2 guy.

KEEP:

Delgado - promising youngster, lot of minutes this year, great value for money at 80k.
Giovinco - duh.
Jackson - a fave of mine. Keep for some continuity? He's on a lot of $ though at 192k.
Osorio - entering his best years, great value at 150k for a key starter.
Simonin - looked promising in limited minutes. Would be great value at 50k if he becomes the #3 CB.
Warner - entering his prime, team looked better with him on the field than without him.

On the fence:

Bloom - remember this guy? Who knows how he will perform after being out so long. Would resign at 60k.
Cheyrou - dude's getting old and he's been getting exposed for pace all year. We can expect him to miss more games to injury next season and performance levels to drop. Let's avoid another Caldwell.
Morgan - frustrating that we have Morrow in his position. He's good value at 100k and could start for some teams. Trade bait?

[ag futbol]

Jozy scored 13 goals in 25 games, rate of 1 goal every 2 games.
Rob Friend tore up B2 one year on tap-ins and service on a platter getting balls from Marco Marin. Didn't make him a good striker there after.

[portu]

Jozy scored 13 goals in 25 games, rate of 1 goal every 2 games.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/gilberto
If we're going to use that as a metric to judge quality then ^

10 games (8 starts)
5 goals
2 assists
And he played on a much shittier team

[jloome]

Rob Friend tore up B2 one year on tap-ins and service on a platter getting balls from Marco Marin. Didn't make him a good striker there after.

Altidore is the laziest striker I've ever seen. He's a poacher only, creates nothing and tries nothing. He's okay at holding up the ball and he runs well with it, but rarely sees it on the run. He had sixteen fucking shots, for fuck sake. Sixteen in a season. Yes, he had 13. But he could've just as easily had eight or seven.

[MartinUtd]

I saw shades of Sunderland Jozy against Montreal - The one who takes too many touches then loses the opportunity in front of him.

I still have faith he can at least keep up the 1 in 2 form, but it's all very worrying.

[Richard]

Altidore is the laziest striker I've ever seen. He's a poacher only, creates nothing and tries nothing. He's okay at holding up the ball and he runs well with it, but rarely sees it on the run. He had sixteen fucking shots, for fuck sake. Sixteen in a season. Yes, he had 13. But he could've just as easily had eight or seven.

The 16 shots is worrisome, there is no way he is going to get close to the same amount of goals if he isn't more active.

[pdubs]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/gilberto
If we're going to use that as a metric to judge quality then ^

10 games (8 starts)
5 goals
2 assists
And he played on a much shittier team

I like Gilberto but he can go on long runs of being very cold, and then hot streaks where he picks up a decent amount of goals. Curious to see him as a starter for another full season in MLS.

My big issue with Jozy is that some games he is invisible. He needs to shoot a whole lot more. For the wage he is on I think we can find an overall better target man.

Regardless tho if Jozy can pot 12-15 goals a year without shooting much in 25 games... remains to be seen if he can keep it up.

[OgtheDim]

Rob Friend tore up B2 one year on tap-ins and service on a platter getting balls from Marco Marin. Didn't make him a good striker there after.

I don't get this "he only scores tap ins" BS about Altidore. i"ve linked to his goal against Montreal somewhere else and could link to his bull rush drives that cause penalties. Yes, he's a lazy sod that could be better - but with what this 26 year old does now, in 2 seasons if he matures, he'll be devastating. And if he doesn't, I'll take this current production.


We've had 5 forwards in our history that had to be marked by opponents - Dichio, DeRo, Koevs, Seba & Altidore. The rest were allowed to get the ball because teams knew nothing would happen.

[portu]

I don't get this "he only scores tap ins" BS about Altidore. i"ve linked to his goal against Montreal somewhere else and could link to his bull rush drives that cause penalties. Yes, he's a lazy sod that could be better - but with what this 26 year old does now, in 2 seasons if he matures, he'll be devastating. And if he doesn't, I'll take this current production.


We've had 5 forwards in our history that had to be marked by opponents - Dichio, DeRo, Koevs, Seba & Altidore. The rest were allowed to get the ball because teams knew nothing would happen.
lol "if he matures" Americans have been using this line since he was 17 at one point or another you have to move on (which USMNT is beginning to do)

[Bobo]

He won't even be leading the attack at that time. Copa America Centenario runs June 3-26, and the Euros are June 10-July 10. We're going to play 5-6 consecutive games missing all 3 our of DPs.

Which is why TFC need to join other MLS teams in diligently scouting South America for impact players who find themselves lost in a vast talent pool. This is why I'd rather have Gilberto than Jozy, at least you can count on Gilberto being there. With due diligence even the aging European ex-international can work better in the short term. To miss 1 in every 5-6 games, a DP better be a game changer in the games he plays, not a spectator.

[Ultra & Proud]

The 16 shots is worrisome, there is no way he is going to get close to the same amount of goals if he isn't more active.
I don't really understand why nobody sees that our set up doesn't use him properly. You have a guy like him, big and mobile but still like a MLS target man, and have him play out wide and further back than Seba, Findley, Osorio, and often Bradley. That's total idiocy and that's what we did, and by we I mean Vanney. The fact he had 16 shots should be more damning of Vanney than Jozy unless of course you just read stats and don't watch matches.

And that last part isn't a dig at you Richard. Just for people who get down on Jozy for pretty much everything without realizing that he is being set up to fail.

[Jack]

Jozy doesn't play like a typical target man. He isn't all that good at controlling with his head. Great foot control for a guy his size and is really good at using his strength against defenders.

[ronzilla]

Jozy did absolutely nothing. All of his goals were sitters, gifts or PK's. Gilberto would have scored the same amount of goals, playing up front with the magician, at a fraction of the cost. Sunderland says it all.

[TFC Kevin]

Will Johnson and/or Robbie Rogers would be nice, assuming they hit the free agency market.

[Ultra & Proud]

Jozy did absolutely nothing. All of his goals were sitters, gifts or PK's. Gilberto would have scored the same amount of goals, playing up front with the magician, at a fraction of the cost. Sunderland says it all.
13 goals is nothing. Almost double what Ol' Gil had here. On 16 shots.

You are exactly who I was talking about above.

[ronzilla]

13 goals is nothing. Almost double what Ol' Gil had here. On 16 shots.

You are exactly who I was talking about above.


Gilberto never had a golden boot and MVP player delivering balls on a silver platter. Big difference.

Jozy was also sent home from the last Int. game when he was fully fit. Not sure how much more evidence you need.

I would prefer that he is traded next season, although if not, thats fine. My biggest beef is with Vanney. I want that fucker gone.

[Ultra & Proud]

Gilberto never had a golden boot and MVP player delivering balls on a silver platter. Big difference.

Jozy was also sent home from the last Int. game when he was fully fit. Not sure how much more evidence you need.

I would prefer that he is traded next season, although if not, thats fine. My biggest beef is with Vanney. I want that fucker gone.
Most of Jozy's goals aren't from Seba assists though. Generally Jozy plays behind Seba and because Seba is faster and tends to shoot first, Jozy at best gets second ball chances. That's got to do with how we line up under Vanney. We have 3 DPs who are all good and Vanney has no clue on how to use two of them. Not sure he does with Seba either but having a player as good as him makes it look easy no matter where you put him.

Not sure how I would blame a player for getting sent home due to injury from the U.S squad when he was hurt before he got the call and never should have been there in the first place. That's Klinsman though; idiot.

Bottom line and I feel pretty confident in saying that if we traded Jozy to someone good, it'd be him fighting Seba, Kamara, & Keane for the boot next year and be added to our long list of good players we dumped because our manager had no idea how to use them properly.

[OgtheDim]

lol "if he matures" Americans have been using this line since he was 17 at one point or another you have to move on (which USMNT is beginning to do)

Yeah, but that's Klinsmann - the whack jobs that support the USMNT make people on here look patient.

At Club level 13 goals on your second striker is gold - only 1 other team has 2 players with more then 10 goals - Cbus with Kamara and Finlay.

We are not going to get better production then Jozy out of the #2 striker position.

[bones]

In such a tightly capped league I've never understood having Jozy and Gio up front from a dollars perspective. I keep asking myself, would our total offence drop that much having a younger, hungrier, cheaper striker up front with Gio and more importantly, would our dollars be better spent improving our back line? In the past many here have said the key to a dangerous team is to build a balanced, solid team first, then add your DP(s) to take you over the top. We are still building by getting our DP's and trying to add pieces to make them work. Unfortunately, we're too far down this road now unless we can find someone to take Jozy for a stud defender.

[shwade]

Yeah, but that's Klinsmann - the whack jobs that support the USMNT make people on here look patient.

At Club level 13 goals on your second striker is gold - only 1 other team has 2 players with more then 10 goals - Cbus with Kamara and Finlay.

We are not going to get better production then Jozy out of the #2 striker position.

Finlay isn't on 5.5 MIL a year and taking up a valuable DP spot.

[Areathrasher]

Jozy was also sent home from the last Int. game when he was fully fit. Not sure how much more evidence you need.


You really need to fact check man.

Jozy was sent home in the Gold Cup.

Since then he played for the Yanks against Peru and Mexico

Then Jozy played against Mexico in the Confed Playoff then captained the US for the first 45 against Costa Rica.

Not sure how much more evidence you need.

[pdubs]

In such a tightly capped league I've never understood having Jozy and Gio up front from a dollars perspective. I keep asking myself, would our total offence drop that much having a younger, hungrier, cheaper striker up front with Gio and more importantly, would our dollars be better spent improving our back line? In the past many here have said the key to a dangerous team is to build a balanced, solid team first, then add your DP(s) to take you over the top. We are still building by getting our DP's and trying to add pieces to make them work. Unfortunately, we're too far down this road now unless we can find someone to take Jozy for a stud defender.

Yep, I have always hated our 2 DP striker approach. It mandates us to play in a 4-4-2 to get them on the field on play people out of positions. I personally would rather have a destroyer DM DP, CAM DP and then one ST DP. I am not sure of a CB DP, league doesn't love it tho they allow it now. Depends on the player I guess.

[notthesun]

Duane Rollins was speculating on twitter yesterday, rather than clutter up the page with embedded tweets I'll just copy & paste:

1) I think it's 90% likely Vanney is back. I would have said 100% two wks ago.
2) There will be less cleaning of house than most think/want. For instance I see only one defender released--Kantari likely,
3) Perquis, Findley and Herc will all be back. Findley on a re-structured deal.
4) The TAM money will be spent on a keeper. They will look to address RB through trade. Babouli will be signed to a HG deal and given chance
5) If there is a "stunning" move in off-season it will be trading Jozy. I don't expect it, but that's the logical place to make huge move.
6) If finding an all-star quality CB within the MLS salary structure were easy 3/4 of teams wouldn't be looking for one.
7) That's why I see Perquis getting another year. He's great with the ball. If he had a consistent partner with complimenting skills....

[Bobo]

I'm sorry but unless Findley is taking a 60% pay cut, retaining his services would be a very poor decision. Addition by subtraction really. I truly feel that TFC would have gotten better output from Lovitz.

[woolly]

I'm sorry but unless Findley is taking a 60% pay cut, retaining his services would be a very poor decision. Addition by subtraction really. I truly feel that TFC would have gotten better output from Lovitz.

A thousand times this.

If we're going to keep Perquis as CB, would pairing him up with Attakora be a good choice? He and Cann were the best CB pairing that we've had to date (albeit in Prekiball terms) and for the money he'd cost, he could be used as depth if we find someone better before the season starts.

[jloome]

I'm sorry but unless Findley is taking a 60% pay cut, retaining his services would be a very poor decision. Addition by subtraction really. I truly feel that TFC would have gotten better output from Lovitz.

We should just cut him. It sends a poor message after his performances to keep him, and he's not good enough.

[RealG-TFC]

I bet they only keep him because of Jozy and Bradley. I remember Bradley talking about how special it was they they had been part of a World Cup starting team as if it didn't matter that it had been 5 years ago :facepalm:.

Wonder if we'll start to bring Gio's friends. They surely can't be worse.

[jloome]

I bet they only keep him because of Jozy and Bradley. I remember Bradley talking about how special it was they they had been part of a World Cup starting team as if it didn't matter that it had been 5 years ago :facepalm:.

Wonder if we'll start to bring Gio's friends. They surely can't be worse.

Gomez was on that team, too. Maybe they brought him in because they thought they needed a positive voice in the dressing room.

Too incestuous, having Vanney coaching all these U.S. nat dudes. We need a coach who is distinctly in charge of his player base, maybe.

Maybe Orlando will trade us Larin for Bradley and Altidore. We could give Larin a young DP deal and go out and use the saved $1.5M from getting rid of Bradley, Altidoire, Findley, Perquis and Kantari to build a defense and find some dependable talent.

[ag futbol]

I don't get this "he only scores tap ins" BS about Altidore. i"ve linked to his goal against Montreal somewhere else and could link to his bull rush drives that cause penalties. Yes, he's a lazy sod that could be better - but with what this 26 year old does now, in 2 seasons if he matures, he'll be devastating. And if he doesn't, I'll take this current production.


We've had 5 forwards in our history that had to be marked by opponents - Dichio, DeRo, Koevs, Seba & Altidore. The rest were allowed to get the ball because teams knew nothing would happen.
The tap ins rap is slight hyperbole but it's still hitting on the fact he is under active out there and is living off pretty good service. You can't seriously be touting his "bull rush" runs, those were probably even less than his shots on net during the season.

The guy didn't look to goal enough and his inability to create his own shot is beyond worrisome.

Logic says you can't continue to be as efficient as he was this year while being very inactive.

[69Chevy396]

Yes.

do TFC even have scouts? And if so, do they go to South America?
Ugh? Laba, Gilberto, Urruti were brought to MLS, we just didn't know what to do with them when they got here.

[69Chevy396]

Seriously, the team will improve when four defenders and a keeper are brought in who are at, or above, MLS calibre. None of the current defenders meet that standard. Teams are getting better at creating and scoring goals, hence TFC needs to vastly improve defensively to counter this. And, despite an occasional decent save, our keeper let in far too many soft goals this year.

[OgtheDim]

Duane Rollins was speculating on twitter yesterday, rather than clutter up the page with embedded tweets I'll just copy & paste:

1) I think it's 90% likely Vanney is back. I would have said 100% two wks ago.
2) There will be less cleaning of house than most think/want. For instance I see only one defender released--Kantari likely,
3) Perquis, Findley and Herc will all be back. Findley on a re-structured deal.
4) The TAM money will be spent on a keeper. They will look to address RB through trade. Babouli will be signed to a HG deal and given chance
5) If there is a "stunning" move in off-season it will be trading Jozy. I don't expect it, but that's the logical place to make huge move.
6) If finding an all-star quality CB within the MLS salary structure were easy 3/4 of teams wouldn't be looking for one.
7) That's why I see Perquis getting another year. He's great with the ball. If he had a consistent partner with complimenting skills....

Rollins making sense?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Rollins making sense?

i know people have some weird beef with him but he does more often than not

[notthesun]

Logic says you can't continue to be as efficient as he was this year while being very inactive.

This is the problem right here. I've been keeping my eye on a few numbers throughout the season and Jozy's shot attempts + key passes per game reflects the eye test that says he's not very involved.

Over the long term, shots are the best indicator for goal scoring. If you don't shoot a lot you will probably not score many goals, and if you shoot a ton you are likely to score more. This is so obvious it sounds like it's not even worth mentioning, but it's important for predicting long term & future success. If a player is averaging a high number of shots and scoring a lot of goals, you know that trend is more likely than not to continue (Giovinco, Kamara, Villa, Drogba). If a player is averaging a lot of shots but not scoring many goals, he's either unlucky and you'd expect him to score more in the future (Valeri probably the best example of this for this year) or he has poor finishing (Accam). If a player is scoring more goals than you'd expect with a small number of shots, he's probably getting lucky or he has excellent finishing.

With a full season of watching him now Altidore certainly seems to fall into the last category. He averages 1.4 shots per game, making him & Charlie Davies the only players in the top 20 goalscorers this season with under 1.5 shot attempts per game. So was he lucky or is he just a good finisher? I don't think he got any luckier than the average guy over the course of a season. I think it's pretty clear Jozy finishes chances at an elite rate by MLS standards, the problem is he doesn't get himself many chances.

Add key passes to shots and you get a good idea of how involved a player is in the attack. Jozy averaged 0.9 key passes per game. That's not bad for a target striker, in the same realm as, for example, Kamara at 1.1 (also I wouldn't expect Jozy to post another goose egg in assists next season based on his performance in this area this year - I'd expect him to pick up about 3 assists next year). But it's a problem when you're only averaging 1.4 shots. It means Altidore is creating just 2.3 shots per game. I'm not going to add all the numbers again, at least not right now, but this puts him somewhere around the 60th most dangerous player in the league in terms of shot creation.

I think the most likely thing that happens next season is Altidore produces at basically the same rate. He had bad luck with other players finishing his key passes this year, so he'll pick up a few assists, and he'll live off his 3 shots every two games and his finishing ability will push him to roughly the same amount of goals. That's most likely. If he hits a bad run of form and he starts missing some of those shots, he might get 8 goals. If he catches fire and buries every chance, he might get 18. But if you're building a team you have to build it on the assumption that the most likely outcomes occur, so the question is if Jozy scores 14 and gets 3 assists next year, is that good enough?

[ManUtd4ever]

Duane Rollins was speculating on twitter yesterday, rather than clutter up the page with embedded tweets I'll just copy & paste:

1) I think it's 90% likely Vanney is back. I would have said 100% two wks ago.
2) There will be less cleaning of house than most think/want. For instance I see only one defender released--Kantari likely,
3) Perquis, Findley and Herc will all be back. Findley on a re-structured deal.
4) The TAM money will be spent on a keeper. They will look to address RB through trade. Babouli will be signed to a HG deal and given chance
5) If there is a "stunning" move in off-season it will be trading Jozy. I don't expect it, but that's the logical place to make huge move.
6) If finding an all-star quality CB within the MLS salary structure were easy 3/4 of teams wouldn't be looking for one.
7) That's why I see Perquis getting another year. He's great with the ball. If he had a consistent partner with complimenting skills....

If that is the case, we'll need to find all star calibre reinforcements at the goalkeeper and centre back positions for this squad to improve next season.

[Bobo]

so the question is if Jozy scores 14 and gets 3 assists next year, is that good enough?

Personally, I think not. It's a respectable number but you want more out of a DP. Ideally, you want a striker who makes everyone around him better. Aside from a dummy and a couple of fluke back heels, he didn't do that. And he certainly wasn't helping during the quarter season that he missed, for various reasons. Combine the 9 games he missed with the 5-6 that he was invisible/unfit for, an MLS club gave a player (who didn't really need an adjustment period) about $5m to play well in slightly better than half his games. That isn't great value in this league.

(Great post by the way. :thumbsup:)

[PopePouri]

There are obvious balance problems with defense with Jozy and Seba playing together so I don't it matters how many numbers he puts up. I think it's a definite that he will be moved.

[[NBF]]

Altidore, has to stay unless TFC is getting someone more high profile. I dont put too much importance on his numbers. There's a need for 2 DP strikers.

Team needs:

GK- Definite need.
CB- 2 centre backs, maybe one of them can be Johnny Leveron.
RB- Obvious need since the spring.
CM- Cheyrou, has the right stuff, but his legs are definitely gone.
RM- How about someone that can cross the ball to the DP?
LM- How about someone that has a left foot on the left side that can cross?

[portu]

If we get a proper a DM with Cheyrou and Bradley imagine that midfield three honestly might be one of the best in the league depending on who we get and you could have Osorio and Warner off the bench

[C.Ronaldo]

There are obvious balance problems with defense with Jozy and Seba playing together so I don't it matters how many numbers he puts up. I think it's a definite that he will be moved.

or Jozy needs to learn to play more D, track back to the half and move all over like drogba (minus the silly antics drogba plays)
and heres an idea, play with some freakn passion and confidence, he didnt try to "will" a game in his favour at all this year'

How can someone be so big, strong and quick and be so irrelevant

[C.Ronaldo]

If we get a proper a DM with Cheyrou and Bradley imagine that midfield three honestly might be one of the best in the league depending on who we get and you could have Osorio and Warner off the bench

watching Laba and Ciman these playoffs makes me very sad

[Detroit_TFC]

It is a fair discussion whether JA is as productive as we need him to be for our current squad but as DPs go, he is above average. There have been a lot of busts.

[Detroit_TFC]

Remind me again (I think it was discussed earlier), what was the conclusion on Dan Kennedy, an upgrade compared to our current guys or not so much?

[PopePouri]

or Jozy needs to learn to play more D, track back to the half and move all over like drogba (minus the silly antics drogba plays)
and heres an idea, play with some freakn passion and confidence, he didnt try to "will" a game in his favour at all this year'

How can someone be so big, strong and quick and be so irrelevant

Jozy is playing more D but our midfield is being overrun consistently, partly because of Cheyrou's not recovering and the other is that we are being outnumbered.

Vanney's not stupid and he knows he needs more bodies in the middle to play his high pressing, possession playstyle. That could mean 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 going forward, in the end it's going to be one striker.

[Areathrasher]

Remind me again (I think it was discussed earlier), what was the conclusion on Dan Kennedy, an upgrade compared to our current guys or not so much?

I think the consensus was that he'd be an upgrade on our current guys.

Given the reaction Galaxy fans have had to the rumours he's heading to LA, i'm not so sure he'd be worth the punt.

A closer look at his usage and stats suggest a keeper on the decline.

[Initial B]

We don't need a keeper in his prime, just a placeholder until Roberts is ready. Someone who is 34 should be okay to hold the fort for another 2-4 years until Roberts is ready to start. I don't think Bono is the one, though.

[Areathrasher]

Just on Kennedy

Here are his save % stats over the last few years. Also bear in mind he lost his job to a 20yr old this season at Dallas.
Year, Save %
2010, 71%
2011, 70%
2012, 65%
2013, 63%
2014, 60%
2015, 62%

[Ultra & Proud]

I'd rather not go for Kennedy. You could get better for less elsewhere.

[C.Ronaldo]

Jozy is playing more D but our midfield is being overrun consistently, partly because of Cheyrou's not recovering and the other is that we are being outnumbered.

Vanney's not stupid and he knows he needs more bodies in the middle to play his high pressing, possession playstyle. That could mean 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 going forward, in the end it's going to be one striker.

so is the issue asking Gio to drop back, he has the shot for it and already has the scoring title.

Altidore isnt a target man (though he has all the attributes of one), I don't see him with the versatility to play much else

[Bobo]

Vanney's not stupid and he knows he needs more bodies in the middle to play his high pressing, possession playstyle. That could mean 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 going forward, in the end it's going to be one striker.

If Vanney is still here next season (big if) then he and Bez need to get their ish together and find players that suit a style. Players were played out of position WAY too much this past season to be successful. The closest thing to a real setup was the narrow 4132. His 4231s were an absolute joke.

[Areathrasher]

If Vanney is still here next season (big if) then he and Bez need to get their ish together and find players that suit a style. Players were played out of position WAY too much this past season to be successful. The closest thing to a real setup was the narrow 4132. His 4231s were an absolute joke.

How so? We had one of our best performances of the year lined up in a 4-2-3-1.

It's funny any way I think that could be an ideal way for us to line up doesn't really suit playing Altidore and Giovinco together.

I wonder if Earnie Stewart could be tempted to taking Jozy again when he starts his new gig with Philly. If he can get the owner to stump up of course.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

If Vanney is still here next season (big if) then he and Bez need to get their ish together and find players that suit a style. Players were played out of position WAY too much this past season to be successful. The closest thing to a real setup was the narrow 4132. His 4231s were an absolute joke.

Nothing to suggest a big if. If anything it's the opposite

[Bobo]

How so? We had one of our best performances of the year lined up in a 4-2-3-1.


Which performance, the one where it took two red cards to beat a terrible defense and morally deflated team? They had done little up to the first sending off. Strikers as mids, centre-mids out wide, Seba as an isolated target man; setups started getting downright silly.

[PopePouri]

If Vanney is still here next season (big if) then he and Bez need to get their ish together and find players that suit a style. Players were played out of position WAY too much this past season to be successful. The closest thing to a real setup was the narrow 4132. His 4231s were an absolute joke.

The diamond was exposed badly with width in the NYRB game. I can't blame Vanney with switching systems after that. He knew it was figured out.

[ronzilla]

so is the issue asking Gio to drop back, he has the shot for it and already has the scoring title.

Altidore isnt a target man (though he has all the attributes of one), I don't see him with the versatility to play much else

No way in hell does Giovinco get dropped back. He's there to score and setup goals, not to trackback or defend.

With a new coach, im sure he will close that titanic size gap between the mids and defenders which is the main reason why this team conceded so many goals.

[Bobo]

The diamond was exposed badly with width in the NYRB game. I can't blame Vanney with switching systems after that. He knew it was figured out.

Everything was exposed at one time or another, such is life with an inept tactician. The bottom line is that is the system that best suited his players. Football isn't a game of 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' where one formation trumps another. Good coaches tweak setups, not deploy a new one every time parking switches to the other side of the street. It's not as if this was a versatile team that could adapt to its opposition's strengths. When Vanney took over he constantly went on about "imposing our will" yet he seemed to be a step behind more often than not.

[PopePouri]

Everything was exposed at one time or another, such is life with an inept tactician. The bottom line is that is the system that best suited his players. Football isn't a game of 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' where one formation trumps another. Good coaches tweak setups, not deploy a new one every time parking switches to the other side of the street. It's not as if this was a versatile team that could adapt to its opposition's strengths. When Vanney took over he constantly went on about "imposing our will" yet he seemed to be a step behind more often than not.

But those tweaks take time. Because of how narrow the diamond is, players need to rotate and cover where needed. That doesn't happen over 4-5 months. Real Salt Lake needed a one year of failure and midfield veterans like Grabavoy and Beckerman to make it work.

[MightyDM]

There are obvious balance problems with defense with Jozy and Seba playing together so I don't it matters how many numbers he puts up. I think it's a definite that he will be moved.

yup.

[Bobo]

But those tweaks take time. Because of how narrow the diamond is, players need to rotate and cover where needed. That doesn't happen over 4-5 months. Real Salt Lake needed a one year of failure and midfield veterans like Grabavoy and Beckerman to make it work.

While I agree, I would have bought that excuse last season, not after an entire full year. I certainly don't feel as though he deserves a pass for this year for his incompetence. It just didn't seem as though he had a vision this team and that is quite concerning moving forward. It shouldn't take a professional coach this long. I mean Findley became the failed Oduro experiment 2.0, but even worse.

[Areathrasher]

Which performance, the one where it took two red cards to beat a terrible defense and morally deflated team? They had done little up to the first sending off. Strikers as mids, centre-mids out wide, Seba as an isolated target man; setups started getting downright silly.

The one where we beat NYRB and clinched the playoffs.

That one.

[ag futbol]

Everything was exposed at one time or another, such is life with an inept tactician. The bottom line is that is the system that best suited his players. Football isn't a game of 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' where one formation trumps another. Good coaches tweak setups, not deploy a new one every time parking switches to the other side of the street. It's not as if this was a versatile team that could adapt to its opposition's strengths. When Vanney took over he constantly went on about "imposing our will" yet he seemed to be a step behind more often than not.
I think that's a little unfair. There are two versions of this club: the one that beats up on the basement dwellers in this league and plays pretty dominant football. The one that gets defensively exposed and looks futile against the better sides in MLS. With a few exceptions, that's generally how the season went. We're a mid table team in every sense.

I'm not a big fan of Vanney, but as a matter of debate, where do you think this roster ranks compared to others in the league when you subtract Seba ( and similarly subtract the other team's best player)? To me, that's pretty revealing.

Someone has to get more out of the other two DP's or simply do a better job identifying talent. I can't think of a top MLS club right now that doesn't have a better backline and a more rangy / intimidating DM.

Look Seba's great, but player-for-player we are not quite a top team yet (same goes in the coaching department too) but I hesitate to put 100% of the blame in one bucket or the other.

[ronzilla]

You would be surprised how a new experienced coach would make a world of a difference.

[OgtheDim]

IF, as Rollins suggests, we use TAM on a keeper, it ain't going to be Kennedy or somebody from within the league.

Who then?


Who would people like that is affordable?

[Bobo]

The one where we beat NYRB and clinched the playoffs.

That one.

Ah, the one where "we" were second-best most of the night and needed a defensive howler and superhuman solo effort. Not quite the 90-minute performance that negates poor showing after poor showing and playing so many guys in positions where they can't excel.



I'm not a big fan of Vanney, but as a matter of debate, where do you think this roster ranks compared to others in the league when you subtract Seba ( and similarly subtract the other team's best player)? To me, that's pretty revealing.

Someone has to get more out of the other two DP's or simply do a better job identifying talent. I can't think of a top MLS club right now that doesn't have a better backline and a more rangy / intimidating DM.



It's difficult to condemn the defensive personnel when their being led by a coach who doesn't seem to have a focus on defensive football. Not quite sure where his focus is to be honest. There aren't a lot of teams with fantastic defensive rosters. It's usually a case of decent guys who are put in positions to succeed within proper systems.

I'm not pinning all the blame on Vanney. Personally, I don't think Bez has done enough to keep his job either but Vanney has to be held accountable for poor team defense.



In any case, this thread is veering off-topic so perhaps a question to pose is: What is Vanney's preferred formation (assuming he stays) and what players are needed to ensure its success?


IF, as Rollins suggests, we use TAM on a keeper, it ain't going to be Kennedy or somebody from within the league.

Who then?

Who would people like that is affordable?

As I mentioned earlier, from my vantage point it shouldn't be too difficult (or very expensive) to secure a loan for a young keeper at a respectable European club. And I know that it's not always a good idea to sign people in an attempt to appease players but I would start in Italy where there are a tonne of quality keepers. You always prefer stability and years of control but I think that within the league's current financial landscape, loanee keepers is a smart way to go.

[ag futbol]

It's difficult to condemn the defensive personnel when their being led by a coach who doesn't seem to have a focus on defensive football. Not quite sure where his focus is to be honest. There aren't a lot of teams with fantastic defensive rosters. It's usually a case of decent guys who are put in positions to succeed within proper systems.

I'm not pinning all the blame on Vanney. Personally, I don't think Bez has done enough to keep his job either but Vanney has to be held accountable for poor team defense.

In any case, this thread is veering off-topic so perhaps a question to pose is: What is Vanney's preferred formation (assuming he stays) and what players are needed to ensure its success?

I don't know man. I look at the top six teams or so and at the very least their CBs are on-paper better than ours the minute they were signed. Kantari and Perquis came with damaged reputations when they showed up here (particularly the latter). Williams was never a starter quality on any other MLS team, I don't think ours should be any different. Nobody in the league is fielding a DM as slow as Cheyrou unless it's RSL with Beckerman and we all saw how that went this year. And while my knowledge of RBs in MLS isn't exactly fluid I'd bet we aren't ranking too favourably their either. Basically our case that we have the personelle back there is down to Morrow and that's about it. I get a new coach could get more out of the same group, but I highly doubt that's enough. The talent gap from the get-go is large.

I think the preferred formation has to be the 4-4-2 diamond. How else do you get both Seba and Altidore in the right spots?

[Yohan]

I don't know man. I look at the top six teams or so and at the very least their CBs are on-paper better than ours the minute they were signed. Kantari and Perquis came with damaged reputations when they showed up here (particularly the latter). Williams was never a starter quality on any other MLS team, I don't think ours should be any different. Nobody in the league is fielding a DM as slow as Cheyrou unless it's RSL with Beckerman and we all saw how that went this year. And while my knowledge of RBs in MLS isn't exactly fluid I'd bet we aren't ranking too favourably their either. Basically our case that we have the personelle back there is down to Morrow and that's about it. I get a new coach could get more out of the same group, but I highly doubt that's enough. The talent gap from the get-go is large.

I think the preferred formation has to be the 4-4-2 diamond. How else do you get both Seba and Altidore in the right spots?
4-4-2 diamond needs a DM who can cover a lot of territory and an CAM who can feed the strikers. We don't have either.

[ag futbol]

4-4-2 diamond needs a DM who can cover a lot of territory and an CAM who can feed the strikers. We don't have either.
We need a DM who can cover more ground regardless of what formation we play, there is no way around that. The fact we don't have an out-and-out AM is mitigated by having multiple midfielders with excellent passing ranges and we have a box-to-box guy who (almost) plugs that gap.

[Lennon]

4-4-2 diamond needs a DM who can cover a lot of territory and an CAM who can feed the strikers. We don't have either.

Mannella + Chapman. Boom! g:D

[Yohan]

We need a DM who can cover more ground regardless of what formation we play, there is no way around that. The fact we don't have an out-and-out AM is mitigated by having multiple midfielders with excellent passing ranges and we have a box-to-box guy who (almost) plugs that gap.
disagreed. 4-4-2 diamond needs a Javier Morales/Mauro Diaz calibre playmaker at CAM who can dictate the offence. Bradley from box to box role does not meet that criteria.

Kreis's RSL diamond had a midfield who were comfortable with ball, 2 CMs who covered a lot of ground and most importantly, drilled well as a team. 4-4-2 diamond is actually a hard formation to play esp defending. we're going to be a mid table team again if we do go 4-4-2 diamond.

[Areathrasher]

Ah, the one where "we" were second-best most of the night and needed a defensive howler and superhuman solo effort. Not quite the 90-minute performance that negates poor showing after poor showing and playing so many guys in positions where they can't excel.



.

You might want to go rewatch that game then.

Vanney switching to a 4-2-3-1 that night completely shut down NYRBs midfield that night. It's one of the few things he got spot on this year.

[Bobo]

4-4-2 diamond needs a DM who can cover a lot of territory and an CAM who can feed the strikers. We don't have either.

This is what concerns me, there are too many CMs who don't excel at anything. In a league where both players and coaches are generally lacking in football IQ, I don't like the idea of systems where players need to know when to pick up each other's slack. I think when dealing with MLS caliber players, it's best to build a team of players who have defined roles and are asked to stick to them. As much as I like Cheyrou and Bradley, if you can find a CDM destroyer and the elusive CAM playmaker, you need to make the sacrifices. Warner and Delgado are worth keeping as cheaper "versatile" subs. Keeping Oso is obviously a given.


You might want to go rewatch that game then.

Vanney switching to a 4-2-3-1 that night completely shut down NYRBs midfield that night. It's one of the few things he got spot on this year.

It would be quicker just to revisit the statistics. The MLS is defined by those sorts of games, it might have been a special night but TFC were nothing special themselves. They couldn't string together more than two passes for long periods of that match. NY dominated at various times, but suffered for poor finishing. If Seba hadn't scored that wondergoal and TFC only managed a draw, (or perhaps worse, had Zubar not whiffed on that cross like an amateur) you probably wouldn't look back on the performance quite as fondly.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

You might want to go rewatch that game then.

Vanney switching to a 4-2-3-1 that night completely shut down NYRBs midfield that night. It's one of the few things he got spot on this year.

Really gotta say we ran that game, all the way through

[Lennon]

Really gotta say we ran that game, all the way through

Did we? Sure, we limited an under strength NY side's chances, but we didn't create much ourselves.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Did we? Sure, we limited an under strength NY side's chances, but we didn't create much ourselves.

Was it effective? Did we win? We were up 2-0 a good portion of the game. I'd rather dominate a game with less in stats than lose a game with more shots, possession etc

[portu]

Was it effective? Did we win? We were up 2-0 a good portion of the game. I'd rather dominate a game with less in stats than lose a game with more shots, possession etc
The Herc goal was incredibly lucky though to have Zubar completely fluff the clearance and then have Herc take maybe the weakest shot of his career right at Robles who essentially moved out of the way of his shot

[portu]

DPs I would take over Altidore


Centrebacks
Pepe - Real Madrid


Attacking Mids
Sneijder - Galatasaray
Moutinho - Monaco
Danny - Zenit
Goulart - Guangzhou Evergrande


Defensive Mids
De Rossi - Roma
de Jong - Milan
Arzura - Tigre


Forwards
Ménez - Milan
Alexandre Pato - São Paulo
Torres - Atletico Madrid


Wingers
Orellana - Celta Vigo
Gervinho - Roma
Varela - Porto
Lavezzi - PSG
Ribery - Bayern
Robben - Bayern

Nani - Fenerbahçe

[C.Ronaldo]

The Herc goal was incredibly lucky though to have Zubar completely fluff the clearance and then have Herc take maybe the weakest shot of his career right at Robles who essentially moved out of the way of his shot

thats MLS for you though. you can win alot of games by capitalizing on the other teams mistakes

[C.Ronaldo]

DPs I would take over Altidore


Centrebacks
Pepe - Real Madrid


Attacking Mids
Sneijder - Galatasaray
Moutinho - Monaco
Danny - Zenit
Goulart - Guangzhou Evergrande


Defensive Mids
De Rossi - Roma
de Jong - Milan
Arzura - Tigre


Forwards
Ménez - Milan
Alexandre Pato - São Paulo
Torres - Atletico Madrid


Wingers
Orellana - Celta Vigo
Gervinho - Roma
Varela - Porto
Lavezzi - PSG
Ribery - Bayern
Robben - Bayern

Nani - Fenerbahçe

PEPE wont be the leader we need, he'll do fine himself but we need someone that can make those around him better

NANI we can convince, resurrect him like we did with giovinco, but then we have the similar situation of lacking defence. Although him and seba would be bagging a ton of goals

[gdg_9]

DPs I would take over Altidore


Centrebacks
Pepe - Real Madrid


Pepe would be a disaster in this league, IMO.

First off, he would be a red card machine with PRO Refs.

Second, he doesn't exactly have the best reputation as a leader and good locker room guy.
That is essential in this league, where you have guys making literally 100 x more than some of their teammates.
DP's need to have certain off-field intangibles and be quality teammates, or you end up with a fractured room.

Pepe is not that guy.

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/661567592176287744

Cheyrou was likely on a one-year deal plus team option for year 2.

[Areathrasher]

Arzura - Tigre




This is a good shout.

Young and relatively attainable.

Tigre have been punching above their weight in Argentina this season so he's for sure gonna have suitors from the bigger Argie clubs and abroad.

TAM could probably work for a player of that ilk.

[portu]

Pepe would be a disaster in this league, IMO.

First off, he would be a red card machine with PRO Refs.

Second, he doesn't exactly have the best reputation as a leader and good locker room guy.
That is essential in this league, where you have guys making literally 100 x more than some of their teammates.
DP's need to have certain off-field intangibles and be quality teammates, or you end up with a fractured room.

Pepe is not that guy.
Pepe has actually been really decent with regards to cards in the last two seasons, certainly better than Ciman

[portu]

thats MLS for you though. you can win alot of games by capitalizing on the other teams mistakes
Very true

[pdubs]

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/661567592176287744

Cheyrou was likely on a one-year deal plus team option for year 2.

If we only got him a couple of years ago...

Would like him back on a lower $$$ more in a backup role. He is not the destroyer DM we are looking for tho.

[SenorDingDong]

I hope he re-signs. He was great and calm on the ball.

[OgtheDim]

I hope he re-signs. He was great and calm on the ball.

He doesn't balance Bradley enough. I love him to death with his ball control but his defensive mind isn't there anymore.

[notthesun]

Small bit of news: MLS apparently looking into taking a break in schedule during the Copa America Centenario according to Bez. Would be great for us since Bradley and Altidore wouldn't miss games, and Giovinco would avoid missing some as well assuming he makes the Italian Euro squad since that will be going on at the time as well.

[gdg_9]

Who are some legitimate targets for TFC this off-season?

I hate how convoluted and secretive MLS player status' are, in that it's tough to see who's contracts are up and who could be available.

I've heard Jeff Larentowicz could become a "free-agent" if the fire don't pick up his option... could be a stabilizing addition to our back line, although at 32 turning 33 next season, he could start on the down-slope.


There's also rumours that Omar Gonzalez could be out at LAG.


Any other proven MLS-ers that could be available?

[Yohan]

Who are some legitimate targets for TFC this off-season?

I hate how convoluted and secretive MLS player status' are, in that it's tough to see who's contracts are up and who could be available.

I've heard Jeff Larentowicz could become a "free-agent" if the fire don't pick up his option... could be a stabilizing addition to our back line, although at 32 turning 33 next season, he could start on the down-slope.


There's also rumours that Omar Gonzalez could be out at LAG.


Any other proven MLS-ers that could be available?
probably best speculated after re entry draft in dec

[Auzzy]

Small bit of news: MLS apparently looking into taking a break in schedule during the Copa America Centenario according to Bez. Would be great for us since Bradley and Altidore wouldn't miss games, and Giovinco would avoid missing some as well assuming he makes the Italian Euro squad since that will be going on at the time as well.

It will be interesting to see how they do that, and finish the season earlier -- which was the impression we got from a couple of places, incl. playoff timing related to the Argos groundshare. Way more mid-week games I guess? That's really tough, also compared with European leagues -- when you consider MLS travel extremes, heat/altitude etc., small roster sizes, and salary cap leading to weak team depth.

[Lennon]

Was it effective? Did we win? We were up 2-0 a good portion of the game. I'd rather dominate a game with less in stats than lose a game with more shots, possession etc

Goals are a poor predictor of future results. xG is much better.

[gdg_9]

probably best speculated after re entry draft in dec

Speaking of that, is there a date set yet for the re-entry draft and/or a deadline for when teams must declare who will be eligible for it?


(I'm just anxious to put this season behind and start to see how we're being built/tweaked for next!)

[TFC1154ever]

This is all going to depend on what main formation Vanney wants to use this upcoming year. The only thing that we 100 percent need is an actual destroyer DM, and a starting CB. A lot of people talk about how bad our CB's were, but how many times were let out to dry? Huge gaps between the mid and D. I love Cheyrou for what he is, but he can't play next to Bradley. I would love to retain him as he can start with whoever the new DM is within a 2 DM formation, but he's probably going to need a pay cut.

[ag futbol]

This is all going to depend on what main formation Vanney wants to use this upcoming year. The only thing that we 100 percent need is an actual destroyer DM, and a starting CB. A lot of people talk about how bad our CB's were, but how many times were let out to dry? Huge gaps between the mid and D. I love Cheyrou for what he is, but he can't play next to Bradley. I would love to retain him as he can start with whoever the new DM is within a 2 DM formation, but he's probably going to need a pay cut.
The CBs were pretty bad regardless of coverage. Some of errors we saw through the course of the season were outrageous.

[TFC1154ever]

The CBs were pretty bad regardless of coverage. Some of errors we saw through the course of the season were outrageous.

Didn't say they weren't bad, but they didn't give up the most goals in the league just because of our CB's. They aren't the worst the worst Cb pairing in the league. Not even close actually. I did write that I still think it's reasonable and what we need to get a starting CB this offseason. Perquis is good enough to start in an MLS top half CB pairing. I guarantee having a proper DM cover the CB's next season will take a huge load of the CB's back and adding a good starting CB from the start of the season will see that Goals Against go down quite dramatically.

[ag futbol]

Well they might not be the worst but they are well below the standards of the teams which are ahead of us in the standings. That's what we're judging against here. We might well have a better pairing than Phily, Orlando, or NYCFC but it's pointless to make that comparison when they were below us in the standings and had considerable defensive breakdowns in their own right.

Perquis was erratic throughout the year. If he settles he could be an asset but I have my doubts.

The coaching could be better, but without roster changes it's still putting lipstick on a pig.

[Pint]

Warners latest tweet thanking the SG's for the memories sure makes it sound like his option wasn't picked up.

[KGH]

Warner might be on the way out:

Collen Warner ‏@collenwarner (https://twitter.com/collenwarner) 24m24 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/collenwarner/status/661967027398008832)
Thank you for the scarf and the moments I will never forget. @inebriatti (https://twitter.com/inebriatti) @U_Sector (https://twitter.com/U_Sector) @KingsInTheNorth (https://twitter.com/KingsInTheNorth) @RedPatchBoys (https://twitter.com/RedPatchBoys) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v1/72x72/2764.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS_HeseUwAAmZOP.jpg






5 retweets10 likes
Reply

Retweet
5



Like
10

More

[pdubs]

We do need a real DM. Cheyrou I like but he is not the destroyer we are looking for. People keep going on about Laba. Well I assume there is a lot of South American talent that we can grab on lesser wages then old Europeans. We have done it multiple times (Laba, Urruti, Gilberto) so lets do it again.

[gdg_9]

This is all going to depend on what main formation Vanney wants to use this upcoming year. The only thing that we 100 percent need is an actual destroyer DM, and a starting CB. A lot of people talk about how bad our CB's were, but how many times were let out to dry? Huge gaps between the mid and D. I love Cheyrou for what he is, but he can't play next to Bradley. I would love to retain him as he can start with whoever the new DM is within a 2 DM formation, but he's probably going to need a pay cut.


I would say we need a true, everyday starter at RB as well.

That position was an experiment all season, where we consistently tried to turn someone into a RB by playing them there out of their natural position.
(Creavalle, Morrow, Delgado, Jackson... none of them are natural RB's).

Bloom returning should help, but at this point he's a backup. I don't think we can rely on him as an everyday starter after missing an entire year.

Jackson is a utility player. Always has been in this league, and at 27 that's not going to suddenly change now.
That's not to say he can't be valuable to the team, but he shouldn't be relied on to be your everyday starting RB.

Williams could move back to RB if we bring in a steady CB, but again, he's only ever been a depth-type player in this league, and on a true contending team, that's all he should be.



The RB position was in a constant state of flux all season. It's something that needs to be addressed to help create a steady, cohesive backline for 2016.

[gdg_9]

Warner might be on the way out:

Collen Warner ‏@collenwarner (https://twitter.com/collenwarner) 24m24 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/collenwarner/status/661967027398008832)
Thank you for the scarf and the moments I will never forget. @inebriatti (https://twitter.com/inebriatti) @U_Sector (https://twitter.com/U_Sector) @KingsInTheNorth (https://twitter.com/KingsInTheNorth) @RedPatchBoys (https://twitter.com/RedPatchBoys) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v1/72x72/2764.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS_HeseUwAAmZOP.jpg






5 retweets10 likes
Reply

Retweet
5



Like
10

More





Warner wasn't a problem this season. He was valuable MF depth on a decent salary (150k-ish), so not really happy to see him go (if that's the case).

But if he is in fact leaving, that tells me they are planning on acquiring a new DM, hopefully a true destroyer, which is a good thing.

[moralis]

Great analysis by Jason Devos and Kristian Jack on the state of TFC:

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-fc/tsn-fc-mls-playoffs-tfcs-disappointing-finish-and-more

[Lennon]

Warner wasn't a problem this season. He was valuable MF depth on a decent salary (150k-ish), so not really happy to see him go (if that's the case).

But if he is in fact leaving, that tells me they are planning on acquiring a new DM, hopefully a true destroyer, which is a good thing.

Agreed. He was one of the few players we had on a good contract :facepalm:

What other players have contracts expiring this year? I think I read that Cheyrou was on a 1 year deal.

[OgtheDim]

I think Devos is still rankled over the hire of Nelsen.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I think Devos is still rankled over the hire of Nelsen.
Amongst other things. I can't stand him.

[ag futbol]

^ not the biggest fan, he has some issues he never seems to drop but I agree with him 100% in his assessment here.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Haven't listened yet but worried my bias will decide for me. Suspect I already know what he's said, been singing the same tune for a minute

[Areathrasher]

They were bang on about the player assessment stuff.

The "Drogba shook my hand and the TFC players didn't" is your usual shite.

[C.Ronaldo]

I would say we need a true, everyday starter at RB as well.

That position was an experiment all season, where we consistently tried to turn someone into a RB by playing them there out of their natural position.
(Creavalle, Morrow, Delgado, Jackson... none of them are natural RB's).

Bloom returning should help, but at this point he's a backup. I don't think we can rely on him as an everyday starter after missing an entire year.

Jackson is a utility player. Always has been in this league, and at 27 that's not going to suddenly change now.
That's not to say he can't be valuable to the team, but he shouldn't be relied on to be your everyday starting RB.

Williams could move back to RB if we bring in a steady CB, but again, he's only ever been a depth-type player in this league, and on a true contending team, that's all he should be.



The RB position was in a constant state of flux all season. It's something that needs to be addressed to help create a steady, cohesive backline for 2016.


Williams doesnt have the pace to play RB,

[ag futbol]

They were bang on about the player assessment stuff.

The "Drogba shook my hand and the TFC players didn't" is your usual shite.
Yeah he's always got something to pick at. But IMO leadership is a bit of a problem around here. There is definitely something that needs to be tweaked.

[gdg_9]

Williams doesnt have the pace to play RB,

Agreed. Especially with the way Vanney seems to want the team to play.

That's why I said he should only be a depth player on a contending team. He can be a backup CB, with the ability to fill in at RB in emergency situations only (ie. if our new starting RB and Bloom both aren't available).

[jloome]

He doesn't balance Bradley enough. I love him to death with his ball control but his defensive mind isn't there anymore.

I think he's past it. At the start of the season he was effective but the more we asked him to play two ways, or just defend, the less he could do for us. He's a great passer and obviously a good presence, but at his money he doesn't offer nearly enough and isn't consistent enough, due to age.

[jloome]

Who are some legitimate targets for TFC this off-season?

I hate how convoluted and secretive MLS player status' are, in that it's tough to see who's contracts are up and who could be available.

I've heard Jeff Larentowicz could become a "free-agent" if the fire don't pick up his option... could be a stabilizing addition to our back line, although at 32 turning 33 next season, he could start on the down-slope.


There's also rumours that Omar Gonzalez could be out at LAG.


Any other proven MLS-ers that could be available?

Larentowicz isn't a natural defender; he played his whole career as a midfielder wrecker, then Yallop moved him when his backline kept failing.

[jloome]

Williams doesnt have the pace to play RB,

Or the skill and intelligence to play center back. He's a career backup-level player, nothing more.

[jloome]

They were bang on about the player assessment stuff.

The "Drogba shook my hand and the TFC players didn't" is your usual shite.

Total nonsense; no context to his use of it, no acknowledgment that Giovinco is exactly the same way. DeVos just isn't very bright. He might have a larger point about the dressing room, but his analogy is laughable.

EDIT: Having said that, he's dead on about our front office. "There are five players, big players on big tickets who should not be anywhere near" the first team elswhere in MLS, he says of Kantari, Perquis, Gomes, Moore, Findley.

"I think that the deployment of the resources they have at their disposal... they made unwise choices in that respect."

[jloome]

Great analysis by Jason Devos and Kristian Jack on the state of TFC:

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-fc/tsn-fc-mls-playoffs-tfcs-disappointing-finish-and-more

JUST UPVOTING this as everyone should listen to it. The TFC stuff is at the end. As much as I rag Devos for his biases, his analysis here (and KJs) is absolutely, one hundred percent dead on. This should be played over a loudspeaker at MLSE until they can all recite it by heart.

[Super]

I also agree completely with Jason Devos and Kristian Jack on their analysis of TFC. There's just no way anyone can listen to that and not walk away feeling very worried about the state of TFC right now.

[Initial B]

I agree with Super's sentiments. So then do we give up on next season already and just go along resignedly for the ride? What do we tie our slim hopes up to that things will get better? Or will this be as good as it gets?

[jloome]

I agree with Super's sentiments. So then do we give up on next season already and just go along resignedly for the ride? What do we tie our slim hopes up to that things will get better? Or will this be as good as it gets?

Basically, we need a defensive midfielder, two wingers, two center halfs who are value for money and will fight, a right back.

Then we need to stick Bradley at the top of a diamond or next to competent partners in a 4-1-3-2. Either way, without a really solid defensive midfielder, we have to plan around using an anchor (or signing more than one).

Obviously have to shed a ton of salary; but Vanney has already said he doesn't think he needs player turnover.

Is he fucking doomed, or is it just me? I think Manning's statement might last as long as it takes to find a better manager. I sort of hope so. Think Bez has to go, too. They've just ignored balance in favor of throwing money at the spine, and it hasn't worked.

[pdubs]

Who do we use our one buyout on? Easy answer is Findley ($250,000) or Kantari ($345,000). However we need a a new keeper and not sure when Bendik's contract ends (Thought it was this January but not certain). If Bendik has another year do we buy him out?

Problem is as DeVos said we have 5 players that we need to get rid of. We can buyout 1 for sure, the rest would have to be transfers or trades. Don't want to go through the old way of retaining big salaries (too many to list) just to get a large chunk off the books. Gomez or Moore may be trade bait idk.

Think Perquis next to a #1 with Williams as the 3rd and Zavaleta as a 4th is a good enough CB lineup.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The "Drogba shook my hand and the TFC players didn't" is your usual shite.

Im at this point in the show, christ its trite

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Do think we need to shed some of these larger salaries of players that have been less than satisfactory, Findlay being one of them. Going to be an interesting off season for sure, Bez' job is definitely on the line if he doesnt see what seems to be obvious to most of us.

[C.Ronaldo]

lovitz is probably worth something to trade for depth, no point keeping him if he is on the bench

[ag futbol]

I think he's past it. At the start of the season he was effective but the more we asked him to play two ways, or just defend, the less he could do for us. He's a great passer and obviously a good presence, but at his money he doesn't offer nearly enough and isn't consistent enough, due to age.
Now the question for us might be: could we reduce his salary and tweak the formation enough to get use of that passing range? Unfortunately I think Bradley + Cheyrou is a complete non starter on any level. You simply can't put both these guys on at the same time.

On an unrelated note: time to bring Manella into the first team and pencil him in as a 2/3rd option at DM. Kid has all the tools.

[Red CB Toronto]

Now the question for us might be: could we reduce his salary and tweak the formation enough to get use of that passing range? Unfortunately I think Bradley + Cheyrou is a complete non starter on any level. You simply can't put both these guys on at the same time.

On an unrelated note: time to bring Manella into the first team and pencil him in as a 2/3rd option at DM. Kid has all the tools.

I have no idea if has all the tools since he has not played a single minute in the MLS yet, but looking forward to seeing him get a chance. Always like to see if the Kids can step up.

[Ultra & Proud]

I agree with Super's sentiments. So then do we give up on next season already and just go along resignedly for the ride? What do we tie our slim hopes up to that things will get better? Or will this be as good as it gets?
I have basically given up on us doing any better than this year next season. I am also resigned to the fact that the squad will go boom come summer when we name our new manager.

My biggest hope for next year is that the roof is good and the Argos don't totally fuck up the pitch but I think they will.

2016 is not shaping up to be a good one at this point but a lot can happen between now and spring.

[Areathrasher]

Who do we use our one buyout on? Easy answer is Findley ($250,000) or Kantari ($345,000). However we need a a new keeper and not sure when Bendik's contract ends (Thought it was this January but not certain). If Bendik has another year do we buy him out?

Problem is as DeVos said we have 5 players that we need to get rid of. We can buyout 1 for sure, the rest would have to be transfers or trades. Don't want to go through the old way of retaining big salaries (too many to list) just to get a large chunk off the books. Gomez or Moore may be trade bait idk.

Think Perquis next to a #1 with Williams as the 3rd and Zavaleta as a 4th is a good enough CB lineup.

Well Findley is out of contract for sure so thats one.
Kantari can be bought out, that's two.
Bendik can be dumped in the re-entry draft as it's an option year for him, so that's three.

I have massive doubts that our FO will do any of that though.

Perquis we are stuck with I think and has probably shown the bare minimum to be given another go.

Herc I have no idea but i'd wager it's a guaranteed deal.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Listened to the TSN FC podcast and its more or less what we can all agree on re: Players needed etc/lack of certain formation/direction.
Plenty of time and place for us to dump some unneeded inflated players and bring in some talent in positions that need filling.
Big question will be whether Bez is up to the job and whether Vanney is able to communicate what he wants/needs going forward as opposed to whats shiny and new.
Think next season is dependent entirely upon this, as well as Vanney and Bez' jobs.
Concerned but not ready to throw in the towel as there is plenty of time and they have made some good purchases/learned from mistakes in the past.
Question is whether they can do so going forward.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

More i think about it i wonder whether there is a lack of communication between Bez and Vanney, whether Vanney cant identify what he needs/doesnt know his tactics, whether Bez is or isnt able to identify players to accomodate Vanney or if its a bit of all of it. Good thing is these are all easily dealt with. Question is whether it will happen.

[moralis]

I know this a player rumour thread, but still interesting to share:

As the MLS coaching carousel begins to spin, some familiar names are beginning to surface. Sources tell Goal USA that former Toronto FC and Newcastle United manager John Carver is interested in a return to MLS. Carver coached Toronto FC in 2008 before resigning in early 2009. Carver then spent four years as an assistant coach with English Premier League side Newcastle United, most recently serving as caretaker manager to close out the 2014-2015 season.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2015/11/05/17019212/inside-mls-ramos-leads-pack-for-fire-job-morris-still?ICID=HP_BN_1

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I know this a player rumour thread, but still interesting to share:

As the MLS coaching carousel begins to spin, some familiar names are beginning to surface. Sources tell Goal USA that former Toronto FC and Newcastle United manager John Carver is interested in a return to MLS. Carver coached Toronto FC in 2008 before resigning in early 2009. Carver then spent four years as an assistant coach with English Premier League side Newcastle United, most recently serving as caretaker manager to close out the 2014-2015 season.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2015/11/05/17019212/inside-mls-ramos-leads-pack-for-fire-job-morris-still?ICID=HP_BN_1

Hes up there with Owen Coyle (whos done more imo)

[MightyDM]

Luke Moore was very good depth, in my view. I think the real issue is that we have not built the right midfield pieces around Bradley. We either do that, or trade him.

[MightyDM]

Go back to Nelsen's last game in charge and watch our midfield play. Bradley was culpable on all three goals - mistakes, and too aggressive with no one stepping in when that aggressiveness caused a problem. Then watch Columbus and the two Montreal games at the end of this season. similar issues. Not necessarily blaming him, but if we are going to use his strength - those aggressive runs - we have to protect against his weakness - being out of position because of those aggressive runs. When it counted the most, we didn't. Other mistakes versus Montreal - hello Kantari - but this was a structural one we didn't fix, except the diamond for a while, and when he didn't play and we used the 4-2-3-1

[ManUtd4ever]

I might be chastised for saying this, but I think Bradley might be the worst use of a DP slot among our existing DPs.

Giovinco is the best DP in the history of the league.

Altidore, despite his flaws, put up numbers that are DP worthy relative to his playing time (13 goals in 22 games). He is possibly the most clinical finisher we have ever had, and they are hard to come by at this level.

Bradley scored 5 goals and 3 assists in 26 games. For a supposed all star box to box midfielder, those numbers are underwhelming, and he wasn't exactly a defensive anchor either. In my opinion, he should be prime trade bait while his perceived value is still high around the league.

[Richard]

^^^ I think I agree with you.

I'm not so sure a box to box midfielder can work in this league when the general IQ level is so low, and especially when Bradley feels like he can do whatever he wants roaming all over the place.

You need some really aware players to fill in the holes that a box to box midfielder creates, and I don't think the trade off is worth it considering Bradley is like a jack of all trades.

That's about the worst use of a DP in MLS, its better to have a designated player in a defined role because you are just not going to tactically get the best out of a box guy in MLS.

[jloome]

^^^ I think I agree with you.

I'm not so sure a box to box midfielder can work in this league when the general IQ level is so low, and especially when Bradley feels like he can do whatever he wants roaming all over the place.

You need some really aware players to fill in the holes that a box to box midfielder creates, and I don't think the trade off is worth it considering Bradley is like a jack of all trades.

That's about the worst use of a DP in MLS, its better to have a designated player in a defined role because you are just not going to tactically get the best out of a box guy in MLS.

Again, I can't believe I'm so in agreement with Devos for a change, but Bradley always looks better going forward. He scored eighteen goals in the eredivisie and he'll set up both strikers more often if we put him in a position to cause problems.

[OgtheDim]

Get a DM and get a couple of decent CD's and a keeper and a RB and we are fine.

5 players.

But given Cheyrou is shown in the off season marketing already, I think he's staying.


*******

Serious question - would Cheyrou make a decent CD now?

[ManUtd4ever]

Cheyrou is quality, but at his age, he lacks the pace to be counted on as a defensive anchor in the midfield. To be effective, he needs to be insulated by a destroyer with pace (in the mold of Laba) so he can use his strengths, which are maintaining possession and distributing the ball to our forwards.

[Kingvikingstad]

I'm in agreement re: Bradley. I just think he's a poor use of a DP in MLS. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none. Furthermore, I think he has hard time finding balance in his role because as Richard alluded to, I think he's always worried about the weaknesses in defense and feels like he needs to do everything. Ultimately he often ends up doing nothing or getting way too stretched.

I've felt like that before playing with less talented teammates on a losing team (obviously nowhere near at this level, but I think the mentality is similar), you get stuck wanting to do everything - especially defensively - because you can't trust them to play their positions correctly.

I could see Bradley being better playing forward with a destroyer CDM and a leader of men, dominant CB. Though we really have to ask ourselves if Bradley is really worth it if he needs all that to find the correct influence on the game? I don't know.

I also would get rid of Altidore as he and Giovinco do not seem to mix well and an unconfident Jozy is unbearable at times. No touch, no hold up play, no pulling defenders with runs, nothing.

I know I'm likely asking too much and it will not happen, but politics and optics aside, its probably what should happen.

[MightyDM]

I'm in agreement re: Bradley. I just think he's a poor use of a DP in MLS. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none. Furthermore, I think he has hard time finding balance in his role because as Richard alluded to, I think he's always worried about the weaknesses in defense and feels like he needs to do everything. Ultimately he often ends up doing nothing or getting way too stretched.

I've felt like that before playing with less talented teammates on a losing team (obviously nowhere near at this level, but I think the mentality is similar), you get stuck wanting to do everything - especially defensively - because you can't trust them to play their positions correctly.

I could see Bradley being better playing forward with a destroyer CDM and a leader of men, dominant CB. Though we really have to ask ourselves if Bradley is really worth it if he needs all that to find the correct influence on the game? I don't know.

I also would get rid of Altidore as he and Giovinco do not seem to mix well and an unconfident Jozy is unbearable at times. No touch, no hold up play, no pulling defenders with runs, nothing.

I know I'm likely asking too much and it will not happen, but politics and optics aside, its probably what should happen.

If Luke Moore would commit to tracking back he'd be a perfectly good hold up 9 beside Giovinco. And way cheaper. We could trade Jozy for a CB allowing Perquis to be number two and Willaims three. Bradley could thrive in that IF and only if there was a Laba type behind him. 4-1-3-2 sounds about right. With no other changes, I'd take that team - alternatively trade Jozy for the DCM (Dax?).


lots of other alternatives - trade Bradley - get a new RB, CDM, CB, CB, etc but trading one of the two for the right price solves our balance problem.

[ryan]

https://twitter.com/juliantheintern/status/662429364710174720


wat

[notthesun]

https://twitter.com/juliantheintern/status/662429364710174720


wat

It won't be the first transfer request for Giovinco we reject this winter, but it might be the biggest.

[PopePouri]

Doesn't mean they won't come back with another bid.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Doesnt mean we will take it

[OgtheDim]

Aren't Barca transfer banned?

[Areathrasher]

Aren't Barca transfer banned?

They can't register players for the first team until January.

They already bought players in the summer and have them playing for the B team (Turan, Vidal)

[pdubs]

https://twitter.com/JulianTheIntern/status/662457593663774720

https://twitter.com/JulianTheIntern/status/662457362490392576

Not sure there is much here. He would be riding the bench, TFC would demand (and should) on a massive transfer fee and he is on massive wages.

That said this could a loan that is too long for TFC. We need him healthy for pre-season no contest.

[C.Ronaldo]

https://twitter.com/JulianTheIntern/status/662457593663774720

https://twitter.com/JulianTheIntern/status/662457362490392576

Not sure there is much here. He would be riding the bench, TFC would demand (and should) on a massive transfer fee and he is on massive wages.

That said this could a loan that is too long for TFC. We need him healthy for pre-season no contest.

agreed, but a loan to barca for champ league games is like putting a TFC billboard on the MOON!

[Initial B]

Just a thought, but what about a trade with Vancouver, Jozy for Laba? They need another proven goal scorer and TFC needs a real defensive mid.

[Pint]

Just a thought, but what about a trade with Vancouver, Jozy for Laba? They need another proven goal scorer and TFC needs a real defensive mid.

The problem with jozy is his salary. If he were making jermaine jones money (2-2.5mil i believe) i think their would be a few teams lining up to try and get him (philly, chicago etc) but at close to 5mil a season i don't really see anyone who needs a striker wanting to spend that kind of money on him.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Also whos saying Jozy wants to go play for Vancouver, lets not forget a human being is involved in this equation.

[Ivy]

Also whos saying Jozy wants to go play for Vancouver, lets not forget a human being is involved in this equation.
In MLS, that's not really accurate...

[C.Ronaldo]

Also whos saying Jozy wants to go play for Vancouver, lets not forget a human being is involved in this equation.

this is football, players are like trading cards

[Areathrasher]

In MLS, that's not really accurate...

Well yes and no.

DPs get no trade clauses. So if they are going to be traded they'll have to agree on the destination and waive it.

[jloome]

Also whos saying Jozy wants to go play for Vancouver, lets not forget a human being is involved in this equation.

Also, who thinks Carl Robinson has lost his mind. Laba led the league in tackles and is clearly the best DM, as far as I'm concerned, and the only place he'd be going is Europe. Laba > Jozy.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Also, who thinks Carl Robinson has lost his mind. Laba led the league in tackles and is clearly the best DM, as far as I'm concerned, and the only place he'd be going is Europe. Laba > Jozy.


Cosign and who actually thinks the league would force a USMNT player to play in yet another Canadian city against his will

[Richard]

I wonder if the Redbull's are interested, a swap for Dax Mcarty and allocation?

[Ivy]

Well yes and no.

DPs get no trade clauses. So if they are going to be traded they'll have to agree on the destination and waive it.
Not always... look at Defoe and TFC protecting him during the expansion draft.

[Pint]

I wonder if the Redbull's are interested, a swap for Dax Mcarty and allocation?

Nah, Redbulls are winning cheap no need. Would be a good move for us though.

Chicago after losing out on jones and drogba may be a landing spot but i think his price tag is too high.

[Areathrasher]

Not always... look at Defoe and TFC protecting him during the expansion draft.

They get protected because they have a no trade clause.


Designated Players are NOT automatically protected (i.e., clubs must choose whether to protect such players and if such player is not protected, he will be available for selection in the Expansion Draft). However, if the Designated Player has a no-trade clause in his contract, then his MLS club must protect him and he will count as one of the 11 players who may be protected.

http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/2014-expansion-draft-rules

A more recent example...

https://twitter.com/TheColorfulKit/status/662372036266827777

[Ivy]

They get protected because they have a no trade clause.



http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/2014-expansion-draft-rules

A more recent example...

https://twitter.com/TheColorfulKit/status/662372036266827777
Just a few off the top of my head...

Eddie Johnson
Claudio Bieler
Tim Cahill

All DP that weren't protected in the draft. No trade clauses are not automatic.

[vortexdr]

Issue is teams across the globe are looking for destroyer type DM's they are a very rare commodity. I honestly think you can only sign one on a DP contract....think Alidore money...My choice would be Nigel De Jong but i cant see TFC getting rid of Bradley or Altidore. And well that boat has kind of sailed since he renewed his contact in 2015 :(

[Areathrasher]

Just a few off the top of my head...

Eddie Johnson
Claudio Bieler
Tim Cahill

All DP that weren't protected in the draft. No trade clauses are not automatic.

Yea, I know. You said look at Defoe, what did you mean then?

Also you think Jozy/Bradley/Giovinco don't have no trades?

[mowe]

Not all DPs have no trade clauses. But in any case, I seriously doubt there is another MLS team willing to pay Altidore $4.75 million. He didn't exactly light it up this season, and for that kind of money you want one of the top players in the league.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not all DPs have no trade clauses. But in any case, I seriously doubt there is another MLS team willing to pay Altidore $4.75 million. He didn't exactly light it up this season, and for that kind of money you want one of the top players in the league.
Considering how often he played, he actually did.

It'd average out to 18 goals in a full season (not taking into account that some of his 25 matches were off the bench) and that was with being used wrong my our manager. 18 goals would be right near the top of MLS goal scoring.

I think a lot of people forget what a top goal scoring forward is in MLS. Everyone wanted Gilberto like nothing else and the guy got 8 in 27 matches.

[ag futbol]

Not all DPs have no trade clauses. But in any case, I seriously doubt there is another MLS team willing to pay Altidore $4.75 million. He didn't exactly light it up this season, and for that kind of money you want one of the top players in the league.
When we put pen to paper most clubs were screaming we overpaid and drove up the market. Average MLS teams can't afford the contracts we have on the books. The ones that can don't appear to be in a position to take either of these guys on.

The sad truth is our coach / GM have rose coloured glasses on for the Stars and Stripes. Nobody else in their right mind would have paid either of these guys that much.

[OgtheDim]

Yes, the 10th best scorer in the league and the top #2 striker on any team is just got no market for him.

Any team in this league, baring LAG, would have him if they could afford him. Orlando, NYCFC, Seattle, SKC, or the Fire would have him for sure at that salary and there are about 5 others who might make it work.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yes, the 10th best scorer in the league and the top #2 striker on any team is just got no market for him.

Any team in this league, baring LAG, would have him if they could afford him. Orlando, NYCFC, Seattle, SKC, or the Fire would have him for sure at that salary and there are about 5 others who might make it work.
Obviously all the "let's dump Jozy" crowd thinks we don't need his mid teens to high teens goals next year since Vanney is actively trimming that many goals off our goals against. We can always count on Findley or Moore to fill the net in Jozy's absence or better yet for the more delusional sort; start Hamilton.

As much as people say without Seba we wouldn't have finished in 6th place then without Jozy's 13, some of which were game winning, then we would have had no playoffs.

[C.Ronaldo]

Obviously all the "let's dump Jozy" crowd thinks we don't need his mid teens to high teens goals next year since Vanney is actively trimming that many goals off our goals against. We can always count on Findley or Moore to fill the net in Jozy's absence or better yet for the more delusional sort; start Hamilton.

As much as people say without Seba we wouldn't have finished in 6th place then without Jozy's 13, some of which were game winning, then we would have had no playoffs.

LOL 13 goals and some dont even want him to be get a 2nd year to improve.

He needs to be utlized better thats all, or we coudl roll the dice ie Gilberto 8 goals and Urriti 10 goals in 2014

[Bobo]

I have basically given up on us doing any better than this year next season. I am also resigned to the fact that the squad will go boom come summer when we name our new manager.

My biggest hope for next year is that the roof is good and the Argos don't totally fuck up the pitch but I think they will.

2016 is not shaping up to be a good one at this point but a lot can happen between now and spring.

My sentiments exactly. To that I'll add enjoying another year of Seba magic. Only in TFC land can there be a step back after making the playoffs for the first time.

[ag futbol]

Obviously all the "let's dump Jozy" crowd thinks we don't need his mid teens to high teens goals next year since Vanney is actively trimming that many goals off our goals against. We can always count on Findley or Moore to fill the net in Jozy's absence or better yet for the more delusional sort; start Hamilton.

Literally, nobody has said this. Nobody.

As we've gone over plenty of times before getting the number of goals he did on the number of shots he had was heavily fighting the trend. Logic says that he's not going to be able to do that again unless he's more active next year.

You also need to acknowledge defending with these two guys on the field (given their tendencies) is sub optimal.

[Ultra & Proud]

Literally, nobody has said this. Nobody.

As we've gone over plenty of times before getting the number of goals he did on the number of shots he did was heavily fighting the trend. Logic says that he's not going to be able to do that again unless he's more active next year.

You also need to acknowledge defending with these two guys on the field (given their tendencies) is sub optimal.

He'd probably get more touches and chances if he was positioned in the box rather than all over the pitch. And most forwards, goal scoring forwards, aren't known for their defense.

Where would you suppose the goal allotment would come from then if he were gone? As for my first statement, I though it was clear, I wasn't implying people said that. I was just trying to figure out how people can be so adamant about dumping a guy that is so shit that he scored the 3rd highest goals total in a season in our history.

But I guess we could get a guy like Gilberto in, save a few million bucks for MLSE, have a guy who runs around like crazy and is active, and can score less goals. That is always an option and one that it seems a lot of people would prefer. Maybe we should get Wiedeman back. He ran all over, didn't score, and was super affordable.

[ag futbol]

Yeah I agree, I'd rather have Jozy than many of the names other people throw out.

Coaching could help us up front as well; although I wonder if that late growth spurt / bulk up means Altidore still plays with the mentality he had when he was first in MLS and carrying a much smaller frame.

For a guy who is so strong I frequently wonder about his hold-up play. I agree target men aren't often noted for their defending, so when you have Giovinco out there as well (who is light on defensive responsibility) it starts to be an issue.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yeah I agree, I'd rather have Jozy than many of the names other people throw out.

Coaching could help us up front as well; although I wonder if that late growth spurt / bulk up means Altidore still plays with the mentality he had when he was first in MLS and carrying a much smaller frame.

For a guy who is so strong I frequently wonder about his hold-up play. I agree target men aren't often noted for their defending, so when you have Giovinco out there as well (who is light on defensive responsibility) it starts to be an issue.
I think Jozy has to change his game but I think he would and can. Vanney should use him like the Crew use Kamara. Kamara causes havok in the box and wins almost everything in the air or at least makes the CBs very uncomfortable. He is strong and always around the area causing troubles and it frees a lot of space for Finlay & the rest. Jozy is bigger, stronger, and just as athletic. No reason he can't do a similar job and it'd be better than having a guy that big, no matter how athletic or skilled he may be, doing things on the wing that aren't helping the team. Seeing Jozy picking up the ball at midfield and heading to the touchline always made me freak out. It was setting him up to fail. He isn't equipped to take on FBs with pace and to set him up to do so is just plain stupid. Vanney = stupid.

[Graeme]

As we've gone over plenty of times before getting the number of goals he did on the number of shots he had was heavily fighting the trend. Logic says that he's not going to be able to do that again unless he's more active next year.

How does logic say this? If what he did was so unlikely, surely we should be lauding him for an excellent season. Instead, I see many comments that he was "just lucky" or they were just "tap ins." In either case, why can't he do the same or improve (with an actual off-season to get in shape)?

[jabbronies]

Toronto FC are pondering a shock "Serie A" double raid for Andrea Barzagli and Daniele De Rossi
http://www.europacalcio.it/news/mercato-toronto-sempre-piu-italiana-i-canadesi-vogliono-anche-santacroce-barzagli-e-de-rossi-82313.html

[Auzzy]

Toronto FC are pondering a shock "Serie A" double raid for Andrea Barzagli and Daniele De Rossi
http://www.europacalcio.it/news/mercato-toronto-sempre-piu-italiana-i-canadesi-vogliono-anche-santacroce-barzagli-e-de-rossi-82313.html

Interesting if true. Although I do wonder what all this will do to our ticket prices... Other MLS teams are able to find decent defenders & DMs for reasonable amounts of money, but that's not us I guess.

[Ultra & Proud]

Interesting if true. Although I do wonder what all this will do to our ticket prices... Other MLS teams are able to find decent defenders & DMs for reasonable amounts of money, but that's not us I guess.
Gotta think big, putting TFC on the map, being a super club and all those things Papa Tim taught us when he came here.

[Ultra & Proud]

If this is true ands I hope it's not, I think the Bez plan is to hopefully buy enough expensive, experienced talent to cover the glaring deficiencies at the manager level. You bring in enough experienced stars then a monkey could manage the team I guess and probably everyone on the pitch will call their own plays and tactics anyway.

[Detroit_TFC]

Make to keep a list of these, for entertainment purposes only.

[Richard]

Oh cant wait for the Rooney to TFC rumors very soon.

[ag futbol]

How does logic say this? If what he did was so unlikely, surely we should be lauding him for an excellent season. Instead, I see many comments that he was "just lucky" or they were just "tap ins." In either case, why can't he do the same or improve (with an actual off-season to get in shape)?Sounds like you've already spelled it out and just don't like the answers. Shooting infrequently means scoring infrequently more often than not.

We'll see how he does next year I suppose.

[ag futbol]

I think Jozy has to change his game but I think he would and can. Vanney should use him like the Crew use Kamara. Kamara causes havok in the box and wins almost everything in the air or at least makes the CBs very uncomfortable. He is strong and always around the area causing troubles and it frees a lot of space for Finlay & the rest. Jozy is bigger, stronger, and just as athletic. No reason he can't do a similar job and it'd be better than having a guy that big, no matter how athletic or skilled he may be, doing things on the wing that aren't helping the team. Seeing Jozy picking up the ball at midfield and heading to the touchline always made me freak out. It was setting him up to fail. He isn't equipped to take on FBs with pace and to set him up to do so is just plain stupid. Vanney = stupid.
Agreed, wide play was one of the dumbest things I saw from the coaching staff all year.

I don't see the Kamara role working for him on this team - we need someone anchoring the middle because that gives more freedom for gio to drift around.