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View Full Version : TFC hire Laurent Guyot to head TFCA



reggie
06-29-2015, 03:17 PM
Quite the hire and probs not cheap.

Areathrasher
06-29-2015, 03:24 PM
On the surface, it's quite a hire.

But you know there will be backlash as he's not Canadian.

OgtheDim
06-29-2015, 03:25 PM
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2015/06/laurent-guyot-named-toronto-fc-kia-academy-director

3 thoughts


Devos, the one soccer journo concerned about the development of the game in Canada, has retweeted but not commented.

Unlike Vanney, doesn't look like a hire to be there in case the current manager is fired - that would be Frasier. :)

Hope they give him time to turn the academy to where it needs to go.

Detroit_TFC
06-29-2015, 03:33 PM
How does Neely fit into this?

Cashcleaner
06-29-2015, 03:35 PM
On the surface, it's quite a hire.

But you know there will be backlash as he's not Canadian.

Will people really care? I mean, it's the Academy we're talking about. I'd be surprised if their is much talk about this either positively or negatively. Personally, I think it's a pretty solid pick-up for TFC. He's got some pretty impressive creds, at least. If you talk to guys like Bez or even players within the organization, it really sounds like player development is a big focus for TFC, but I would imagine most fans aren't all that interested in much other than the first team and maybe a few outstanding players rotating through TFC2.

reggie
06-29-2015, 03:37 PM
i wonder if he can poach some young 15 16 yr olds from france...i wonder if they will start some kind of residency program now?

molenshtain
06-29-2015, 03:43 PM
Doubt it. it would cost money via compensation that I highly doubt the FO would view as a good investment. Also very unlikely any French kid would think it worth his time to move to canada to advance his career.

ag futbol
06-29-2015, 03:45 PM
Will people really care? I mean, it's the Academy we're talking about. I'd be surprised if their is much talk about this either positively or negatively. Personally, I think it's a pretty solid pick-up for TFC. He's got some pretty impressive creds, at least. If you talk to guys like Bez or even players within the organization, it really sounds like player development is a big focus for TFC, but I would imagine most fans aren't all that interested in much other than the first team and maybe a few outstanding players rotating through TFC2.
I think there is two sides to this: one, the ability to have enough soccer cred to actually convince the locals that this isn't just MLS half-assing it and picking 2nd rate internal candidates. Two, actually developing connections with the community from a business development perspective. The story is lots of people wanted to help from the outset but TFCA basically ignored them; they are not happy about that.

Yohan
06-29-2015, 04:04 PM
Vanney's connection probably when he was doing his coaching badge with French FA and impressed by guyot to offer him a job.

molenshtain
06-29-2015, 04:20 PM
I think there is two sides to this: one, the ability to have enough soccer cred to actually convince the locals that this isn't just MLS half-assing it and picking 2nd rate internal candidates. Two, actually developing connections with the community from a business development perspective. The story is lots of people wanted to help from the outset but TFCA basically ignored them; they are not happy about that.


Let's not overstate it. Lot's of people wanted to be included, not necessarily help. There's a difference.

trane
06-29-2015, 04:24 PM
I like the way young French players are playing the game, they are technically and tactically aware, physical and solid in defending and attack. I like this alot.

Richard
06-29-2015, 04:50 PM
On the surface it seems to be a good hire, but lets not forget we also had some highly credible Dutch staff too and that went nowhere. TFCA is still all smokes and mirrors until I actually see some players come into the first team contributing, Morgan/Henry don't count.

Ajax TFC
06-29-2015, 04:54 PM
i wonder if he can poach some young 15 16 yr olds from france...i wonder if they will start some kind of residency program now?
Besides the fact that there is no incentive for kids to leave a place that develops world class talent for an academy who's most successful talent is Doniel Henry; it would also be illegal to import kids from that far away. Barcelona got hit with a two window transfer ban for pulling shit like that.

WestStandGeoff
06-29-2015, 05:57 PM
On the surface it seems to be a good hire, but lets not forget we also had some highly credible Dutch staff too and that went nowhere. TFCA is still all smokes and mirrors until I actually see some players come into the first team contributing, Morgan/Henry don't count.

Um... seems you missed that the U-12 team managed a draw against the Barcelona Academy (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2015/05/toronto-fc-academy-strong-effort-tournament-held-spain) a month ago during a tournament in Spain. It's taken a while to build the foundations and there's still a lot of work to do, but hardly "smoke and mirrors". They weren't going to jump out of the gates in year 1 and be a powerhouse.

ag futbol
06-29-2015, 06:06 PM
Let's not overstate it. Lot's of people wanted to be included, not necessarily help. There's a difference.
I understand there is a difference but I'm not of the opinion it's free riders we are talking about.

TFC has done a piss poor job of connecting with the soccer community in general.

ensco
06-29-2015, 06:07 PM
This to me is a hire designed to attract kids to TFCA, plain and simple.

There are some good clubs and training programs out there, TFC has to have an edge. A kid really has to believe the he is getting something he won't get elsewhere in committing to TFCA.

I would like to know more about Guyot's reasons for coming, as this is a position you really want to stay filled by the same person for decades, if possible.

molenshtain
06-29-2015, 06:39 PM
TFCA is also responsible for 11 of the 23(?) players on the latest U17 canada roster. Lot's of work has been done to right the wrongs of Rongen and Johnston by Vanney and Bez. Credit where credit is due.

molenshtain
06-29-2015, 07:03 PM
I understand there is a difference but I'm not of the opinion it's free riders we are talking about.

TFC has done a piss poor job of connecting with the soccer community in general.

I'm not talking about free riders. Lot's of clubs and organizations wanted to be part of TFCA initially, were not given the A+ treatment by the club they thought they deserved and took massive offense because of it. For a number of years we certainly did not do enough to include the community, but the massive egos in Ontario soccer were certainly detrimental to getting the best kids into the academy. We didn't take enough care to be inclusive, but it's hard to attract kids when teams are telling their players not to sign with us. I'm less in the know on this stuff since the days of Winter and Rongen, but Vanney and Bez have supposedly cured this relationship. I'm not sure how, but I take it they have.

ag futbol
06-29-2015, 09:21 PM
^ Again, you're starting from a different place. Forget A+ treatment, how about this: amateur club with existing relationship with TFC says they have a great player to recommend. What is your expectation? That TFC look at the player in person? Pick up the phone and say "thanks but we only scout through these channels?" Asks for video maybe?

Because from the stories bantered about the line is TFC didn't even call to say no in the past. They just ignored the information completely from their PARTNERS (ie those clubs they supposedly had close relationships with).

If you can point out what bez / vanney have done to improve it I'd be interested to hear. At face value, they have bigger fish to fry and what we've done with our academy just mirrors the rest of the league.

So here's to hoping this hire is the start of a new trend.

molenshtain
06-29-2015, 10:02 PM
I heard that Johnston and co didn't even start many relationships.They got here and had no idea who to talk to about the Youth community and got some very bad advice from some dubious sources. Setting up relationships with certain clubs and barely listening to any outside recommendations. With Rongen it got worse.

Like I said, I'm less close to the ground with this sort of info the last few years. From what I can tell our new FO has made it a point to make TFCA part of the greater footballing community, and not on top of a pedestal like it was before. They've gotten much better at getting the best talent from the area, too. I can't say why specifically, but our under 16's and 17's are much closer to resembling a GTA all star team than it was 5-6 years ago.

PopePouri
06-29-2015, 10:25 PM
I heard that Johnston and co didn't even start many relationships.They got here and had no idea who to talk to about the Youth community and got some very bad advice from some dubious sources. Setting up relationships with certain clubs and barely listening to any outside recommendations. With Rongen it got worse.

Like I said, I'm less close to the ground with this sort of info the last few years. From what I can tell our new FO has made it a point to make TFCA part of the greater footballing community, and not on top of a pedestal like it was before. They've gotten much better at getting the best talent from the area, too. I can't say why specifically, but our under 16's and 17's are much closer to the GTA all star team than it was 5-6 years ago.

Obviously we don't know the internal workings but there is evidence that there is cooperation and improvement:

1) The rehiring of Stuart Neely. Obviously he isn't in his previous job but his presence I've heard has soothed over some of the problems. Based on his twitter account, he is incredibly passionate about the academy teams and players. The fact that he took the job too.

2) The signing of Jay Chapman. Was just another player discarded by Rongen along with Vukovic, Camargo, Kelsey and others. He had offers elsewhere but it's pretty obvious he didn't want to go through the draft or entertain offers overseas. He wanted to sign with us.

3) Manny Aparicio and Molham Babouli. Players not on the Canadian system's radar but ended up signing. That doesn't happen without proper scouting and collaboration with the club. Mo being 22 just shows there was definite 2 or more years of incompetence, most likely related to previous regimes.

4) Their interest is fielding a local tier 2 team and their collaboration with OSA/Vaughn.

Qman
06-29-2015, 11:13 PM
On the surface, it's quite a hire.

But you know there will be backlash as he's not Canadian.


what backlash, its just the academy, no one (except for forum posters) really cares

Auzzy
06-29-2015, 11:25 PM
what backlash, its just the academy, no one (except for forum posters) really cares

It's the kind of thing Jason de Vos loves to bitch about on the air. Not that too many people care about that either.

GuelphStorm2007
06-30-2015, 12:52 AM
I like the way young French players are playing the game, they are technically and tactically aware, physical and solid in defending and attack. I like this alot.

As usual Trane , I agree with you. The French have always developed very good technically gifted players from Platini , to Zidane to Pogba and many more,

Pookie
06-30-2015, 06:06 AM
Um... seems you missed that the U-12 team managed a draw against the Barcelona Academy (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2015/05/toronto-fc-academy-strong-effort-tournament-held-spain) a month ago during a tournament in Spain. It's taken a while to build the foundations and there's still a lot of work to do, but hardly "smoke and mirrors". They weren't going to jump out of the gates in year 1 and be a powerhouse.

You are confusing game results with development. At U12, results should be way down the list of "markers of a good program."

Pookie
06-30-2015, 06:08 AM
Obviously we don't know the internal workings but there is evidence that there is cooperation and improvement:

4) Their interest is fielding a local tier 2 team and their collaboration with OSA/Vaughn.

What do you make of the fact that they were a part of the OPDL last year but pulled out for this season? This is the OSA's main development thrust for U13 on up.

Pookie
06-30-2015, 06:13 AM
This to me is a hire designed to attract kids to TFCA, plain and simple.

There are some good clubs and training programs out there, TFC has to have an edge. A kid really has to believe the he is getting something he won't get elsewhere in committing to TFCA.


Their obvious edge is they are free.

Their obvious downside is that you have to live in the GTA for it to be feasible from a parent/commuting perspective.

Their challenge is convincing people who are used to the club system, that training held behind closed doors with no ability for parents to observe and the only real payoff is a low wage MLS job is a good investment of time.

WestStandGeoff
06-30-2015, 06:24 AM
You are confusing game results with development. At U12, results should be way down the list of "markers of a good program."

Please. The fact our team can even compete with a youth team like Barcelona is a sign they're doing something well. They also lost 1-0 to Ajax in the same tournament, and those are widely regarded as 2 of the best academies in the world. I think our U9, or maybe U10 team, was also showing well in a European tournament about the same time too, so it's not a one-off.

No need to be so patronizing.

OgtheDim
06-30-2015, 06:34 AM
Their obvious edge is they are free.

Their obvious downside is that you have to live in the GTA for it to be feasible from a parent/commuting perspective.

Their challenge is convincing people who are used to the club system, that training held behind closed doors with no ability for parents to observe and the only real payoff is a low wage MLS job is a good investment of time.

That's assuming that MLS is the only opportunity. Even with our inept academy, how many players have signed with development squads overseas? What are the numbers on such signings for other MLS academies?
I don't know, but lets not suggest that MLS is the only possible option.

That and ability for parents to observe is really a North American thing - not certain it affects success or not but the anecdotal evidence from parent involvement in youth development across sports in North America is a certain % of parents will inhibit development and cause issues for the rest of the team beyond their own children.

Pookie
06-30-2015, 07:01 AM
Please. The fact our team can even compete with a youth team like Barcelona is a sign they're doing something well. They also lost 1-0 to Ajax in the same tournament, and those are widely regarded as 2 of the best academies in the world. I think our U9, or maybe U10 team, was also showing well in a European tournament about the same time too, so it's not a one-off.

No need to be so patronizing.

Read up on why academies in general do not focus on results, particularly for U13 on down. Results are inconsequential at this age.

I think showing in this 7 v 7 tournament format is great for the kids' confidence and they will have stories to remember for ages. End of story.

Pookie
06-30-2015, 07:09 AM
That's assuming that MLS is the only opportunity. Even with our inept academy, how many players have signed with development squads overseas? What are the numbers on such signings for other MLS academies?
I don't know, but lets not suggest that MLS is the only possible option.

That and ability for parents to observe is really a North American thing - not certain it affects success or not but the anecdotal evidence from parent involvement in youth development across sports in North America is a certain % of parents will inhibit development and cause issues for the rest of the team beyond their own children.

Well if Euro opportunities are sought, then a parent is also likely looking at a number of the SAAC options out there as well. Many with a good track record and association with International clubs (eg ANB futbol, Sigma, etc). These SAAC members also have strong NCAA scholarship programs. That's what TFCA has to be better than.

As a former coach, I completely agree with you about parent involvement. I would have loved to have a couple of them behind glass for the season.

That said, not everyone is a headcase. And for those parents, I think it is a tough set up.

I can tell you personally that driving an hour, to drop my kid off, and sit in the cafeteria with nothing to look at but empty buffet stands gets a little tough to take 4 days a week. No view of the pitch whatsoever. You have no way to assess the quality of training, determine if the coach interaction is positive or on a very simple level just watch your kid develop and feel proud. I didn't think it would be a big deal but for me personally it was.

OgtheDim
06-30-2015, 07:31 AM
Fair enough Thanks for the insight.

PopePouri
06-30-2015, 08:48 AM
What do you make of the fact that they were a part of the OPDL last year but pulled out for this season? This is the OSA's main development thrust for U13 on up.

You can ask Danny Dichio but I'll speculate. There seems to be an emphasis this year on challenging players instead of providing league play for it's own sake and therefore results don't seem to matter. My thinking is that the OPDL wouldn't have provided a decent level of play assuming we have a number of the opposing teams top prospects.

WestStandGeoff
06-30-2015, 10:02 AM
Read up on why ... blah blah blah... End of story.

LOL - I point out that there's no need to be so patronizing, and in your reply you come off as a condescending douche bag. Bravo!

Pookie
06-30-2015, 10:28 AM
You can ask Danny Dichio but I'll speculate. There seems to be an emphasis this year on challenging players instead of providing league play for it's own sake and therefore results don't seem to matter. My thinking is that the OPDL wouldn't have provided a decent level of play assuming we have a number of the opposing teams top prospects.

There are a lot of challenges with the OPDL namely around the franchise locations, travel and cost to play outside of TFCA (which is free)

TFCA actually put their U12s in with the U13s last year. And the U12s didn't do so well. Though they didn't keep standings, parents and players knew (and a rogue website kept standings anyways). I think their kids progressed but if you are a standings guy (see above and shoot WeststandGeoff a PM) the politics don't look so good.

They aren't in it this year. OSA seemed to be directing kids to their Regional ID program. Some clubs did send players to TFCA but they would then lose out on 3-5k per year fees so I am not sure what the motivation would be to overly promote sending players along. Not sure if that was part of the reason or there was concern about who is actually at the top of the development pyramid.

Either or, youth soccer is ripe with politics. With London and Vancouver now working together, the division within the ranks seems alive and well.

Initial B
06-30-2015, 11:38 AM
My son is playing with one of the OPDL clubs in Ottawa, and last year's commute for games was pretty punishing. This year is a little better. as they only go to Toronto about 6 times (one overnight), with another 3 times to Kingston. They're keeping score starting with the U14s this year while the U13s are keeping theirs up on the parent-run website. A number of teams lost players to other teams and I know of one team that lost two players to Europe. There seems to be a trend towards choosing larger skilled players, which worries me as the smaller players are getting pushed out soley because they can still be muscled off the ball.

As for SAAC, I noticed a newsletter on their website that vaguely explained why they wouldn't be working with the OSA within the OPDL. Politics indeed...

Soccerpro
06-30-2015, 12:05 PM
TFCA u14's took part in the USSDA winter showcase, and the championship weekend last weekend. I'd personally like to see TFC in the USSDA full time.

sidvan
06-30-2015, 03:50 PM
You can ask Danny Dichio but I'll speculate. ...
i would hazard a guess DD probably worked closely with Guyot on his coaching training with the FFF through the MLS cooperative learning a couple years back. DD did a summary lecture on the experience during the National Canadian Soccer Coaching conference.

Pookie
07-01-2015, 10:44 AM
My son is playing with one of the OPDL clubs in Ottawa, and last year's commute for games was pretty punishing. This year is a little better. as they only go to Toronto about 6 times (one overnight), with another 3 times to Kingston. They're keeping score starting with the U14s this year while the U13s are keeping theirs up on the parent-run website. A number of teams lost players to other teams and I know of one team that lost two players to Europe. There seems to be a trend towards choosing larger skilled players, which worries me as the smaller players are getting pushed out soley because they can still be muscled off the ball.

As for SAAC, I noticed a newsletter on their website that vaguely explained why they wouldn't be working with the OSA within the OPDL. Politics indeed...

We were in the West so you win on the driving front. But for a league that supposedly was about de-emphasizing results/standings and focusing on development… the requisite driving hours for a game made very little sense to me.

No longer dealing with the OPDL in our home. My car is thankful.

Hopefully, it evolves into the model that it strives to be.

Soccerpro
07-01-2015, 06:52 PM
The driving isn't worth it. If I had a kid in soccer in T.O I'd definitely be going to Sigma, if my kid had talent and motivation.

SoccMan2
07-01-2015, 09:01 PM
Look all I know that it has been many years now that soccer participation in Ontario and Canada has been almost equal to and in some cases more than hockey. I mean the numbers have been there since the early 80's and where has that gotten us? How many world class players has Canada produced? Moreover, a better system was needed in not only producing skilled talented players but also identifying talent, too many talented players were never scouted or recognized there was no proper system in finding these players. I'm hoping things are changing, however, the only thing that concerns me is the rising costs of playing for these academies and even the regular youth clubs. I understand that even though TFCA is free if someone is not close to the Toronto area the travel costs become a factor, but at least for talented kids within Toronto who play in the TFCA setup there is no registration fee, so it's a start, but if you live very far I realize it can get costly commuting back and forth. Regardless I would still take being a youth soccer player today in Ontario than being one say 25 years ago when there was absolutely nothing it terms of a proper youth soccer setup.

Initial B
07-02-2015, 08:00 AM
The driving isn't worth it. If I had a kid in soccer in T.O I'd definitely be going to Sigma, if my kid had talent and motivation.
Pretty much anybody outside the GTA does not have that option. The Ottawa Fury have narrowed their Academy down to a Junior and Senior Academy team playing against Quebec teams. I suppose Ottawa players have the option of playing on the other side of the river in Gatineau with some clubs over there, and some prefer the Quebec style of play. There have been some complaints that some OPDL teams are still playing dump-and-chase compared to possession-based soccer. And development outside of Ottawa and the GTA are poorly served by the OSA. I have a feeling that it's going to be clubs around TFC, London Whitecaps, and Ottawa Fury that are going to develop the next generation of players.