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JavierMartini
06-01-2015, 03:36 PM
we have gone 4-1-1 and that is tied with seattle for the best in the league :D

OgtheDim
06-01-2015, 03:43 PM
6 game runs are something that happens a lot in this league.

The fact we have not done many of these times is just sad.

__wowza
06-01-2015, 03:43 PM
busa and i were talking at joes during one of the viewings, saying how if we escaped the road trip with 6 points we'd be in good shape and that if we escaped it with 9 points we'd be in great shape.

we got those points, but i came back to the boards to read a wave of negativity after each loss. this league is notoriously hard on travelling teams, and we knew what we were getting into for the first two months of the season. we're forth in the east with a game in hand at the moment. most of our away games are done, and we're not playing a block of more than 2 at any given time in the future. *knock on wood* we're looking pretty good at the moment.

FRANKIE65
06-01-2015, 03:47 PM
I'm most impressed by the 4 goals against in those 6 games!!! With the offence the squad has, if, they keep the GA at around 1 per game all is good!!!

Globetrotter
06-01-2015, 04:16 PM
we got those points, but i came back to the boards to read a wave of negativity after each loss. this league is notoriously hard on travelling teams, and we knew what we were getting into for the first two months of the season. we're forth in the east with a game in hand at the moment. most of our away games are done, and we're not playing a block of more than 2 at any given time in the future. *knock on wood* we're looking pretty good at the moment.

Each win on the road is countered by a loss at home. If you lose one at home - you have to win one on the road just to break even.

The topic has always been of interest to me: why is home field advantage such a factor (in soccer especially)?

Thinking about it, there's really little that would suggest it should be more advantageous for a soccer player than any other sport.
Baseball: you have different field dimensions (outfield) and wall height.
Hockey and basketball are both indoors with fans literally inches away from you at the glass or feet on the court - because it's indoor, it can be louder and much more of a situation where fans are "hovering" over the court/ice/
Football and soccer: essentially all teams have the same size field, and fans are kept at a certain distance. both play on turf, real or artificial. Football does have a domed stadium advantage over soccer, but not that many.

If anything - I would have said that soccer would have had the least amount of home field advantages.


After watching soccer and sports in general, my thoughts pointed towards a psychological reason for the differences. No other sport has away teams going to play for a tie. Nobody that's a champion or successful in life no matter what you do achieves greatness by settling for a tie. This in itself - play for 1 point and not 3 points - can obviously have a huge impact on performance, and lead to a massive shift in statistics that point out that MLS home teams have a much better chance of winning.

Hockey teams go to other cities and try to win.
Baseball, you always aim to win at least 2 in a 3 game series (home or away)
Football, you have to win on the road.
Basketball, you don't have ties - you have to win on the road.

All other North American team sport either play a "best of" series, or one game knockout. You have to win. If you're not higher ranked - you have to win at least once on the road.

There's no way I can say what I need to say in a short post, let alone provide stats, and all the other yada yada that people will demand as proof.

My opinions - and that might be all that this is - is that soccer teams simply have a home field advantage because of psychology, the attitude of going on the road not to win.

Cashcleaner
06-01-2015, 04:22 PM
busa and i were talking at joes during one of the viewings, saying how if we escaped the road trip with 6 points we'd be in good shape and that if we escaped it with 9 points we'd be in great shape.

we got those points, but i came back to the boards to read a wave of negativity after each loss. this league is notoriously hard on travelling teams, and we knew what we were getting into for the first two months of the season. we're forth in the east with a game in hand at the moment. most of our away games are done, and we're not playing a block of more than 2 at any given time in the future. *knock on wood* we're looking pretty good at the moment.

I have to agree. Though I assure you, it's not just these boards that are negative. Go to any other website where TFC is being discussed and there is an awful lot of pessimism going on. In fact, we're probably one of the more optimistic forums.

But the thing is, aside from starting the season with 7 games on the road, we're in a pretty good spot right now. People may not believe this, but we've got the 3rd best Points Per Game ratio in the Eastern Conference - that's 7th overall in the league. Honestly, we're seeing some the this club's best football being played and my confident continues to build as each day passes.

We are a club on the ascendance. Obviously nobody is going to gift us any wins, but we definitely have the means to not only make the playoffs, but probably to at least get seeded half-decently.

ryan
06-01-2015, 05:15 PM
The pessimissm is natural. We're fucking Toronto. We're not used to having anything to believe in, so unless they are engraving a trophy with our city on it, we're going to be doubtful.

dupont
06-01-2015, 05:25 PM
The pessimissm is natural. We're fucking Toronto. We're not used to having anything to believe in, so unless they are engraving a trophy with our city on it, we're going to be doubtful.

lol so true. Toronto is one of the greatest cities to live in but in terms of sports, it's been one horrible thing after another for decades.

(loving TFC right now. Just playing great!)

Oldtimer
06-01-2015, 05:35 PM
The home advantage is huge in MLS. Statistically teams win twice as much at home as on the road.

Pookie
06-01-2015, 05:42 PM
we have gone 4-1-1 and that is tied with seattle for the best in the league :D


It's impressive and honestly has been fun to watch.

It really is too bad that it doesn't mean much. Best in the league or 12th in the league… in the eyes of MLS and their dumb ass playoff system, it's all the same.

SamK
06-01-2015, 06:02 PM
It's impressive and honestly has been fun to watch.

It really is too bad that it doesn't mean much. Best in the league or 12th in the league… in the eyes of MLS and their dumb ass playoff system, it's all the same.

It is a dumb ass playoff system but no question it's in a teams best interest to finish higher up the table to avoid play in games/one-offs whatever they want to call them.

Auzzy
06-01-2015, 06:44 PM
Fire ... somebody!

Oh well, maybe wait until next week.

Yes Pookie has a point, especially with diluted play-off format, but he likes to exaggerate. Obviously teams benefit significantly by getting the highest spots during the regular season & avoiding the extra play-ins. Plus Oldtimer explained, in MLS "statistically teams win twice as much at home as on the road." So you don't just want to avoid the extra play-ins; you also want to secure home-field advantage during the play-offs (even if that hasn't always worked out so well in the last 1 or 2 seasons). Finally, doesn't the home club make more money off of a play-off game? All of those are incentives to do the best you can during the regular season, and not just squeak into the playoffs.

Globetrotter, the home advantage is particularly strong in MLS because:
- Travel distances are massive, plus the time zones differences;
- For most games, they still have to use regularly-scheduled flights;
- Rosters are small;
- Given the low salaries, quality drops significantly beyond your core roster, making it harder to rotate players to help deal with the travel;
- Huge variation in climate & altitude between many of the cities;
- Large variation in playing surfaces between the stadiums -- particularly having to deal with artificial turf in many locations.

One thing I noticed RE the results so far (incl. the extended road trip): Toronto has the best road goal differential in the East, at +- 0. Even including the stronger West, they're at 4th in the whole league in terms of that stat. This shows that the overall performance on the road was far above average.

Of course, they still need to win more games at home going forward, with many players missing for international games soon...

Pookie
06-01-2015, 08:00 PM
Oh well, maybe wait until next week.

Yes Pookie has a point, especially with diluted play-off format, but he likes to exaggerate. Obviously teams benefit significantly by getting the highest spots during the regular season & avoiding the extra play-ins. Plus Oldtimer explained, in MLS "statistically teams win twice as much at home as on the road." So you don't just want to avoid the extra play-ins; you also want to secure home-field advantage during the play-offs (even if that hasn't always worked out so well in the last 1 or 2 seasons). Finally, doesn't the home club make more money off of a play-off game? All of those are incentives to do the best you can during the regular season, and not just squeak into the playoffs.

Do you know the answer to the question, who won the MLS Cup in 2014? 2013? 2012…. without looking it up?

Now let's ask the same question of the Table Champion in 2014, 2013 and 2012? I'd bet most of us can't. And I'd really bet that most TFC/MLS fans couldn't either.

Yes, other leagues have playoffs. But ask an NFL fan who won the Superbowl? An MLB fan for the last few years of World Series Champs? Ask the puck heads about Stanley Cup champs.

Regardless of the format, having Playoffs minimizes the accomplishment of winning the table. And the playoffs themselves are rarely followed by anyone outside of the teams involved. Ratings generally jump if LA is in and generally drop off if they aren't. Suggesting people follow teams, not the Cup itself. Meaning fans of MLS soccer really don't care who wins.

I really think that MLS needs to look seriously at this. Playoffs dilute the accomplishment of the season long grind and if they really don't matter to fans of MLS (again, they probably only matter if your team is in), what's the point?

Jack
06-01-2015, 08:03 PM
There are no North American pro leagues that don't have some form of playoff/tournament to determine their champion. This includes the Liga MX, where Liguilla has determined the champions since the 70s. Time to get over the disdain for playoffs and embrace the format, because it isn't going anywhere. I'll concede that MLS is one of the easier leagues in which to make it, but the NHL and NBA are both also pretty forgiving about playoffs.

OgtheDim
06-01-2015, 08:06 PM
It is a dumb ass playoff system but no question it's in a teams best interest to finish higher up the table to avoid play in games/one-offs whatever they want to call them.

This.

Top 2 get a bye. 3rd no longer gets a bye. 5th and 6th may not play a home playoff game. You have to be in it to win it, but I`d rather be in the top 4 so at least there is a home playoff game of some sort.

Auzzy
06-01-2015, 08:07 PM
Do you know the answer to the question, who won the MLS Cup in 2014? 2013? 2012…. without looking it up?

Now let's ask the same question of the Table Champion in 2014, 2013 and 2012? I'd bet most of us can't. And I'd really bet that most TFC/MLS fans couldn't either.

Yes, other leagues have playoffs. But ask an NFL fan who won the Superbowl? An MLB fan for the last few years of World Series Champs? Ask the puck heads about Stanley Cup champs.

Regardless of the format, having Playoffs minimizes the accomplishment of winning the table. And the playoffs themselves are rarely followed by anyone outside of the teams involved. Ratings generally jump if LA is in and generally drop off if they aren't. Suggesting people follow teams, not the Cup itself. Meaning fans of MLS soccer really don't care who wins.

I really think that MLS needs to look seriously at this. Playoffs dilute the accomplishment of the season long grind and if they really don't matter to fans of MLS (again, they probably only matter if your team is in), what's the point?

So? It's still advantageous for MLS teams to finish higher in the regular standings, that's my point.

Yeah playoffs dilute the regular season standings, but I don't think they're going anywhere. MLS will continue trying to emulate & catch up with other NA leagues. Anyway, I like playoffs, and tend to watch many of the games in MLS. I pay much closer attention to other teams during the playoffs than during the regular season (other than their standing relative to TFC, and impact their performance may have on TFC's chances).

Blizzard
06-01-2015, 08:11 PM
Totally agree with Jack on this point. It is what it is and that's how it's going to stay. People who don't like it are just going to have to learn to tolerate it.

Remember when 16 of 21 teams made the NHL play-offs? Laughable but it didn't diminish the Stanley Cup because you still had to win it all and the same can be said of the MLS Cup.

OgtheDim
06-01-2015, 08:22 PM
There is a perception around some circles that the first few months of MLS don`t mean much. Its a self selecting view as people only remember the teams that came on late after doing badly at first. Nobody remembers who missed out by 1 point (well except your own supporters) or who dropped off the radar after a good start.

LAG last season vs. the Impact or SKC, for example

Shakes McQueen
06-01-2015, 08:39 PM
Totally agree with Jack on this point. It is what it is and that's how it's going to stay. People who don't like it are just going to have to learn to tolerate it.

Remember when 16 of 21 teams made the NHL play-offs? Laughable but it didn't diminish the Stanley Cup because you still had to win it all and the same can be said of the MLS Cup.

I'd eventually like to see more emphasis put on the Supporters Shield as a major "trophy" in it's own right, but I otherwise agree. And having a generous playoff format right now, is good for a growing league, where you want as many fans to feel involved for as long as possible - particularly when there are no promotion or relegation battles to avert your gaze (and there never will be).

Jack
06-01-2015, 09:07 PM
I'd eventually like to see more emphasis put on the Supporters Shield as a major "trophy" in it's own right, but I otherwise agree. And having a generous playoff format right now, is good for a growing league, where you want as many fans to feel involved for as long as possible - particularly when there are no promotion or relegation battles to avert your gaze (and there never will be).
This is just it. Single table in MLS could quite possibly see any teams outside the top 4 or 5 with nothing to play for in the final two months of the season. No relegation to avoid or jockeying for continental cup spots here. Playoffs give the excitement back to what would otherwise be a huge chunk of meaningless games to play out the string each season.

Pookie
06-01-2015, 10:14 PM
This is just it. Single table in MLS could quite possibly see any teams outside the top 4 or 5 with nothing to play for in the final two months of the season. No relegation to avoid or jockeying for continental cup spots here. Playoffs give the excitement back to what would otherwise be a huge chunk of meaningless games to play out the string each season.

You argue that games have no meaning if you are out of it. Yet in the EPL there are many mid table teams that do quite well. They wont challenge for the league but aren't in danger of being relegated either. We could probably name next year's mid table teams right now.

Their season, save the FA Cup, is basically "meaningless" by the above definition. Yet they do fine with their fan base and at the gate.

Last year TFC attendance dropped over the summer. With Defoe and while in a playoff spot, TV ratings fell out the bottom. If there is all of this excitement to play for, what happened?

I think you underestimate the interest in a single table champion.

BuSaPuNk
06-01-2015, 10:22 PM
You argue that games have no meaning if you are out of it. Yet in the EPL there are many mid table teams that do quite well. They wont challenge for the league but aren't in danger of being relegated either. We could probably name next year's mid table teams right now.

Their season, save the FA Cup, is basically "meaningless" by the above definition. Yet they do fine with their fan base and at the gate.

Last year TFC attendance dropped over the summer. With Defoe and while in a playoff spot, TV ratings fell out the bottom. If there is all of this excitement to play for, what happened?

I think you underestimate the interest in a single table champion.

Were also comparing a leauge with multipe teams that have been around for 50-100 plus years.

This leauge is still growing. Compare the MLS now to what it was 10 plus years ago. Completely different leauge now.

jloome
06-01-2015, 10:28 PM
There are no North American pro leagues that don't have some form of playoff/tournament to determine their champion. This includes the Liga MX, where Liguilla has determined the champions since the 70s. Time to get over the disdain for playoffs and embrace the format, because it isn't going anywhere. I'll concede that MLS is one of the easier leagues in which to make it, but the NHL and NBA are both also pretty forgiving about playoffs.

I have no problem with it, I'd just prefer it be logical and be about a separate cup; that's all the cup playdowns in england are, playoffs that run concurrent to a season. Same format, same separation from the importance of league results.

That way the team best over the season rightfully gets the title, as Thierry Henry suggested should happen.

I'd also note that two polls of MLS fans on two major sites returned well over half wanting single table AND relegation (which is doable, with a whole bunch of league financial supports, caveats and potential outs as well.)

It's also mitigated somewhat if the second dvision is also MLS, holds the saem league standards, builds local support bases the same way etc. MSL2, in other words.

Jack
06-01-2015, 10:56 PM
You argue that games have no meaning if you are out of it. Yet in the EPL there are many mid table teams that do quite well. They wont challenge for the league but aren't in danger of being relegated either. We could probably name next year's mid table teams right now.

Their season, save the FA Cup, is basically "meaningless" by the above definition. Yet they do fine with their fan base and at the gate.

Last year TFC attendance dropped over the summer. With Defoe and while in a playoff spot, TV ratings fell out the bottom. If there is all of this excitement to play for, what happened?

I think you underestimate the interest in a single table champion.
This past EPL season, there were probably 8 teams in the Europe hunt and 7 in the relegation fight, so 75% of teams in what we could call meaningful games of one kind or another for a large part of the season. In MLS last season, it would be 20% (realistically 3 or 4 would be in the hunt for the shield). The sporting traditions are different. And the drop in interest in TFC could be attributed to many things. There was a World Cup last summer, too.

It would be great if it happened and maybe one day it could, but North American sports crown champs with playoffs and MLS is a very North American league.

jloome: MLS2 is seen as the "minor leagues". I just don't know if you'd get the same interest. LA Galaxy or NYCFC in the minors? I just don't know.

Anyway, it's a cool dream to have, but I think it's still a dream. For now, I'm ok with playoffs. It works for MLS as things stand with our current structure.

boozilla
06-02-2015, 01:40 AM
A second and third division with a relegation format could potentially be regionalized like Junior Hockey to limit travel costs. Not rocket science.

OgtheDim
06-02-2015, 06:10 AM
Pro Rel is the black hole of MLS - every discussion eventually goes there and gets crushed.

ensco
06-02-2015, 06:30 AM
Just a point about how "well" we have been playing - we are where we are because of Giovinco, and to a lesser extent Bradley and Altidore and the fullbacks. The rest have been pretty inconsistent.

It's not the recipe for success over a full season - Gold Cup is coming, someone is about to take a suspension trying to break Gio's legs (that is guaranteed in this league!).

Too soon to say how we're doing. The upcoming DCU games will tell us something. But last Saturday did feel like a party - I don't remember that feeling at very many TFC games, and we have definitely had more buildup goals with 5+ nice touches than we ever have had before.

We are also getting the calls (two straight games with huge, ridiculous noncalls that went our way), which is weird, and can't last!

Pookie
06-02-2015, 07:04 AM
Just to take another angle on what would happen if the MLS got rid of playoffs, consider what happens with the National Championship.

TFC doesn't care about it.

Because the MLS playoffs are the prize for the ownership and we all know that more games and more travel hurt a team with injuries and fatigue. As a result, the National Championship and CLL are essentially a nuisance in the middle of the season.

Same applies south of the border with the Open Cup and CCL.

If a great team wants to collect these trophies, they are less likely to go far in MLS Playoffs. The best teams in the MLS play the most games. A full regular season + these additional matches.

A table champion would bring more prestige to these trophies and provide that mid-season meaning referenced above.

brad
06-02-2015, 07:06 AM
This past EPL season, there were probably 8 teams in the Europe hunt and 7 in the relegation fight, so 75% of teams in what we could call meaningful games of one kind or another for a large part of the season. In MLS last season, it would be 20% (realistically 3 or 4 would be in the hunt for the shield). The sporting traditions are different. And the drop in interest in TFC could be attributed to many things. There was a World Cup last summer, too.

It would be great if it happened and maybe one day it could, but North American sports crown champs with playoffs and MLS is a very North American league.

jloome: MLS2 is seen as the "minor leagues". I just don't know if you'd get the same interest. LA Galaxy or NYCFC in the minors? I just don't know.

Anyway, it's a cool dream to have, but I think it's still a dream. For now, I'm ok with playoffs. It works for MLS as things stand with our current structure.

And NYCFC would be on a fast path to the MLS2 right now. Now way the league is going to let that happen. Folks can make all the pro-relegation arguments they want, but no way the MLS are going to let it's crown jewels end up in MLS2. Can you imagine the LA Galaxy or the Sounder having a bad year and getting relegated?

brad
06-02-2015, 07:10 AM
Playoffs are an intrinsic part of North American Sports and are not going anywhere. A recent poll of MLS fans (done by the league) was at something like 68% of participants valued the MLS Cup highest (over the league & CCL).

The trick isn't to do away with the playoff structure, but to attach some sort of meaning to the regular season (beyond the already in place incentives in playoff positioning). Unfortunately, most of the way to do that goes against the North American parity mode I hate so much which rewards teams for doing badly in the form of higher draft picks.

Jack
06-02-2015, 07:36 AM
Ok, I think we took this thread off topic. I suppose we can always count on Pookie to bang his single table, no playoffs drum, but this is about our latest run and whether we can sustain it.

Ensco, I think the thing that has been good about our positive run has been the fact that our supporting cast has been more solid. Of course we are winning because of Giovinco, Bradley and Altidore's performances. That's why we got them. But we are also winning because Vanney has found a formation that clicks and the fullbacks (part of the supporting cast, right?) are playing well. Cheyrou is looking very good as the deep-lying midfielder and Perquis and Zavaleta are both getting more comfortable. Grinding out that point in NE and riding the early lead all the way through against Portland are positive signs.

That said, DC with no Bradley is going to be a good test for us.

Steelers7
06-02-2015, 09:54 AM
Each win on the road is countered by a loss at home. If you lose one at home - you have to win one on the road just to break even.

The topic has always been of interest to me: why is home field advantage such a factor (in soccer especially)?

Thinking about it, there's really little that would suggest it should be more advantageous for a soccer player than any other sport.
Baseball: you have different field dimensions (outfield) and wall height.
Hockey and basketball are both indoors with fans literally inches away from you at the glass or feet on the court - because it's indoor, it can be louder and much more of a situation where fans are "hovering" over the court/ice/
Football and soccer: essentially all teams have the same size field, and fans are kept at a certain distance. both play on turf, real or artificial. Football does have a domed stadium advantage over soccer, but not that many.

If anything - I would have said that soccer would have had the least amount of home field advantages.


After watching soccer and sports in general, my thoughts pointed towards a psychological reason for the differences. No other sport has away teams going to play for a tie. Nobody that's a champion or successful in life no matter what you do achieves greatness by settling for a tie. This in itself - play for 1 point and not 3 points - can obviously have a huge impact on performance, and lead to a massive shift in statistics that point out that MLS home teams have a much better chance of winning.

Hockey teams go to other cities and try to win.
Baseball, you always aim to win at least 2 in a 3 game series (home or away)
Football, you have to win on the road.
Basketball, you don't have ties - you have to win on the road.

All other North American team sport either play a "best of" series, or one game knockout. You have to win. If you're not higher ranked - you have to win at least once on the road.

There's no way I can say what I need to say in a short post, let alone provide stats, and all the other yada yada that people will demand as proof.

My opinions - and that might be all that this is - is that soccer teams simply have a home field advantage because of psychology, the attitude of going on the road not to win.

Good points.
I just find MLS so spread out for travel so I think that has the biggest advantage for the home team.
Just last year alone TFC went West 3 times to LA/Seattle/RSL, this year same 3 plus Vancouver. Ideally, since they are rotating the schedule by the looks of it to alleviate travel TFC should get 2 of the above at home and 2 on the road each season moving forward, until expansion happens where my guess is that it would be like the EPL, one home, one away.
Soccer's/Futbols point structure just works really well where when you win it has a significant value especially against a conference opponent.

American football is still the top due to limited games (16) as all count but soccer is next for sure.
Hockey would also be better if it adopted a similar point structure to soccer, right now it sucks. I'm Still trying to figure out how you get a point when you lose lol

Globetrotter
06-02-2015, 11:59 AM
^
The size of North America is the same regardless of MLS, MLB, NHL, NBA, or NFL (NCAA for that matter too). Baseball could be argued that due to the number of games and bouncing all over the continent has the most - but all teams in each league would be affected. I think travel might have something to do with it, but really I see that more as a neutral variable.

Soccer, out of the 5 major team sports in North America, in my mind has the least benefit to home field advantage, only slightly behind football.

Everything you do, you do to achieve and be successful. "You play to win the game". Soccer doesn't follow that - and over the decades have worked up being on the road as some Goliath of a task, that they changed their mindset, tactics, and strategies to simply walk away with a tie and be very satisfied with that.

There's nothing mystical about being on the road in the MLS. Get in the right frame of mind. Go out to win. Play to win. Think nothing but how are we going to win. The wins will come.

Steelers7
06-02-2015, 12:08 PM
^
The size of North America is the same regardless of MLS, MLB, NHL, NBA, or NFL (NCAA for that matter too). Baseball could be argued that due to the number of games and bouncing all over the continent has the most - but all teams in each league would be affected. I think travel might have something to do with it, but really I see that more as a neutral variable.

Soccer, out of the 5 major team sports in North America, in my mind has the least benefit to home field advantage, only slightly behind football.

Everything you do, you do to achieve and be successful. "You play to win the game". Soccer doesn't follow that - and over the decades have worked up being on the road as some Goliath of a task, that they changed their mindset, tactics, and strategies to simply walk away with a tie and be very satisfied with that.

There's nothing mystical about being on the road in the MLS. Get in the right frame of mind. Go out to win. Play to win. Think nothing but how are we going to win. The wins will come.

100% on the first part, its just the way each one is structured for each leagues schedule.
For hockey most teams like the Leafs or Habs or Sens will get a 3 game road trip through California so they don't bounce back and forth
MLB is the same for the most part where the Jays will play the Angels then go to Seattle.
the NFL the schedule rotates so it works out in a wash depending on the season.
MLS as it stands could be better due to the amount of games teams can have (CCL or US Open Cup) and the potential for extended travel on short weeks

The better team should win regardless of being home or away. But the beautiful thing about sports is that it starts 0-0 and anyone can win.

dupont
06-02-2015, 12:17 PM
Soccer, out of the 5 major team sports in North America, in my mind has the least benefit to home field advantage, only slightly behind football.

Everything you do, you do to achieve and be successful. "You play to win the game". Soccer doesn't follow that - and over the decades have worked up being on the road as some Goliath of a task, that they changed their mindset, tactics, and strategies to simply walk away with a tie and be very satisfied with that.

There's nothing mystical about being on the road in the MLS. Get in the right frame of mind. Go out to win. Play to win. Think nothing but how are we going to win. The wins will come.

I've always thought it's because the refs seem to always bend to the crowd and call more penalty kicks, free kicks in dangerous areas and just more fouls in general against the away team. I've never looked up any stats about that though so I may be just perceiving it that way.

Steelers7
06-02-2015, 12:24 PM
I've always thought it's because the refs seem to always bend to the crowd and call more penalty kicks, free kicks in dangerous areas and just more fouls in general against the away team. I've never looked up any stats about that though so I may be just perceiving it that way.

It does seem that way except for TFC.
Look at last game when (was it) Morgan got drilled in the mush and the Ref called a PK no hesitation. Haven't seen the replay to know but it looked live like he got it in the teeth and it was a soft call.
But how many times does that happen when its TFC and the ref turns a blind eye?

Globetrotter
06-02-2015, 02:10 PM
I've always thought it's because the refs seem to always bend to the crowd and call more penalty kicks, free kicks in dangerous areas and just more fouls in general against the away team. I've never looked up any stats about that though so I may be just perceiving it that way.

Yes it's a good point, and there could be statistics that are very lopsided one way or the other - and I'm not sure there will be any way to conclusively blame the crowd, but it is indeed a factor. That said, all officials across all sports are in very tough positions to make calls that the home crowd might not be supportive of. Where soccer currently has an edge - which could lean to a home field advantage if all other factors hold true - is that it does not have instant replay. Adding replays on incidents with penalties/cards would do wonders to clean this up (thereby reducing any perceived advantage to refs giving favorable calls to the home team).

jloome
06-02-2015, 02:17 PM
And NYCFC would be on a fast path to the MLS2 right now. Now way the league is going to let that happen. Folks can make all the pro-relegation arguments they want, but no way the MLS are going to let it's crown jewels end up in MLS2. Can you imagine the LA Galaxy or the Sounder having a bad year and getting relegated?

Can you imagine all their fans deserting en masse if they did? Because they wouldn't. Not if the atmosphere is right and the team is good. They'd wait for them to win the second division and be promoted the next year. And in the meantime, the end of the year would mean something to the teams near the bottom of the table.

You're also assuming straight relegation; instead, you do it like Mexico, where the threat of it exists more than the reality because other factors (such as a two-game playoff with the team expected to come up, min. stadium size etc) are considered as well.

Also consider that these guys don't have much to lose; as long as div2 teams are part of any tv deal as a subsidiary and still get profits, the losses are minimalized by the incredibly low salary structury of mls. If you then also balance MLS2 by having its salary structure at about one-half to two-thirds of MLS, you protect the hierarchy while also making second division games exciting, by drawing more outside talent.

It's certainly doable. One other thing: eventually, most business models still have to consider the customer and increasingly, people want it. Even if MLS is what gets them into soccer, they go from there and look at what's happening elsewhere, where late-season races matter.

Oops: Sorry Jack, didn't see that until just now.

Maintaining the run depends on keeping people healthy. Well, by people, I mean one person. Maybe two. We'll see this week, I guess.

OgtheDim
06-02-2015, 03:07 PM
Can you imagine all their fans deserting en masse if they did? Because they wouldn't.

Never underestimate the desire of New York people to choose the #1 product over the #2.

Auzzy
06-02-2015, 03:12 PM
Maybe someone wants to create a pro/rel & playoffs/no-playoffs discussion thread...