Home Is Almost Here - Game 7: Pre, In and Post Game - TFC at Philadelphia Union

[MightyDM]

That's not what I see today. Last game, yes. This game, we are riding our luck.

Edit: this was a reply to someone who posted that vanney had the team really organized defensively.

[Ultra & Proud]

Very close to turning TV sound off. They should do SAP programming of the match raw with no announcers.

[shwade]

Off game for Altidore today..still hustling out there though.

[tfcleeds]

Please tell me Vic Rauter didn't just say "hurry, hurry hard" there in reference to Konopka. :facepalm:

[Ultra & Proud]

Oh boy.

[MightyDM]

That's not remotely true. And it wasn't my point. Why bash Nelsen in the middle of this game? It's nothing to do with him.

[shwade]

Luckyyyy gadamnnn

[Hieberrr]

Good god. Keep the lead or score!

[ag futbol]

Wow, good thing MLS officiating is crap. Warner give your head a shake!

[Jack]

Phew

[Ultra & Proud]

Close offsides but a lot have been close today.

[__wowza]

this is the fourth or fifth time the balls been booted straight out.

i've yet to see him link up with a red shirt that didn't involve him rolling the ball out.


FUCK THIS DISTRIBUTION.

[Yohan]

I think Warner played Arisgueta onside. well, a call finally went in our favour

[Ultra & Proud]

Casey must be on the pizza, beer, and cake diet.

[Captain Cook]

Konopka's goal kicks are garbage.

[General Woolfe]

Danger time...

[shwade]

Looked like a TFC hand ball

[ag futbol]

I think osorio would have made the better sub

[SoccMan2]

This is not good .

[Ultra & Proud]

Not liking this wall.

[shwade]

Guy looks like prince harry

[__wowza]

Not liking this wall.


cheyrou was organizing it, you know you're in trouble when a fucking defender is calling the shots on how many people are in the wall.

[SoccMan2]

Playing like this is the reason we have always given up tying or winning goals over the years .

[ag futbol]

Do we actually get our keepers to play with their feet ... Or what?

[__wowza]

why do i sense this ending with a penalty?


this is looking like the TFC of old.

[Ultra & Proud]

Way too much bunkering.

[shwade]

Konopka is scarier than Creavalle

[Jack]

Hate this late game bunkering :(

[Ultra & Proud]

Wow Zavaleta.

Did not not expect that. Bunker time extended.

[shwade]

Sad that our A team can't put away their B team.

[Oldtimer]

almost chewing my finger nails off.

[Ultra & Proud]

Konopka is scarier than Creavalle
They make a good one two punch.

[Jack]

Need some time on the ball in their end.

[shwade]

Lol warner had no idea what to do.

[ag futbol]

6 minutes is nonsense

[molenshtain]

Under Nelsen, we were in the playoffs. But why on earth take us back to that debate?

we had won 3 in 13, our defense and midfield had fallen apart, every player was regressing and we had just given the worst performance I've ever seen played by this team in the 3-0 loss at home to the revs. what happened last season would have happened if Nelsen was there 'till the end. don't kid yourself.

[jloome]

Six minutes?!??

[Jack]

Brutal. Six fucking minutes..

[__wowza]

how was that not a fucking yellow!?

altidore already had the ball down by the time he went in.

[v00d00daddy]

We are getting away with a lot.

[jloome]

Jozy totally fouled there. What the fuck. Bush league

[Cashcleaner]

C'mon TFC, play this game out...

[shwade]

Altidore taking a beating out there

[Jack]

Altidore taking a beating out there
Gotta love how he battles.

[tfcfans]

Woohoo!!

[Ultra & Proud]

Ahh good. 3 points and a merciful end of Rauter talk.

[General Woolfe]

Wasnt pretty at the end but ill take it. 9 points from that road trip suddenly doesnt seem so bad

[Ultra & Proud]

Actually clean sheet with Konopka. Who would have guessed that?

[v00d00daddy]

Phew! I'll take it. Lots of things to fix. Bad MLS officiating helped us. Didn't like giovinco dive, altidore embellishment but it's great to see them hold on. Well done boys!

[ag futbol]

1.3 points per road game is nothing to sneeze at. The way we got there was bizarre but last two games solidified things a bit.

I'll take it.

[Oldtimer]

A lucky hit off the post, a fortunate call on an offside goal that could have been considered not offside, but I'm happy over the 3 points.

9 away points in 7 games. That's better than average.

[Captain Cook]

Finally. Thank God that's over.

[Jack]

Yesssssss. This road trip suddenly stinks a whole lot less. Now we come home on a two game winning streak. Ugly, but six points on the road and 180 minutes without giving up a goal.

[Yohan]

won despite the incompetence. against better team esp away, TFC loses this one. thank goodness Philly sucks more than us

[mook-life]

Woooooooooooooooo gio is a boss

[molenshtain]

Wasnt pretty at the end but ill take it. 9 points from that road trip suddenly doesnt seem so bad

it's fucking great is what it is.

[flatpicker]

Thank goodness. That was some scary goalkeeping. I'm pretty content with 3 wins on this long road trip.

[portu]

That was the most stressful 6 minutes ever

[Richard]

A win is a win, but surely they could have put in a better performance considering the problems Philly has had.

[jloome]

We should've scored four against that team. Good to go home with nine points in the bag, though. Seventeen of the remaining 27 at home.

[Ultra & Proud]

1.3 points per road game is nothing to sneeze at. The way we got there was bizarre but last two games solidified things a bit.

I'll take it.
It's something to head home with. At least Vanney adjusted to give the back some cover.

Honestly if Findlay or Bradley could finish it would have been 3 or 4 goals for sure.

[shwade]

End result good. How we got there wasn't considering Philly was missing half their starters and we couldn't score from the run of play.
Gio is a magician.

[OgtheDim]

Actually clean sheet with Konopka. Who would have guessed that?

I hope he doesn't get another chance.

He was brutal.

[dupont]

What a lucky offside call.. oh well, it happens. Happy to win but we almost got burned for missing a few earlier chances.

[Hieberrr]

Phew.

Glad we won. Hopefully as the season goes on, we'll win and control the majority of the possession.

[molenshtain]

won despite the incompetence. against better team esp away, TFC loses this one. thank goodness Philly sucks more than us

I think watching us play Philly today looked a lot like watching good teams play past TFC teams at BMO. we got our goal, showed more individual and team competence, held steady at the back, but otherwise sort of played down to the other team knowing how bad they are. against a better team we probably see a more demanding performance from us today.

[OgtheDim]

TFC Win Sale!

Want Home Opener Tickets For $22?

PROMO CODE: BRADLEY
http://torontofc.ca/ticketpass


TFC on twitter just now.

Sections 210 and 204 by the looks of things.


Hopefully some people who saw that goal grab a seat or two.

[Ultra & Proud]

I hope he doesn't get another chance.

He was brutal.
He sure was. I still say dump him and snag a NASL GK.

Getting a clean sheet with him in goal, no matter how shit the Union are, is a compliment to our improved defence more than anything else.

[shwade]

Bradley doesn't offer too much going forward.

[ag futbol]

won despite the incompetence. against better team esp away, TFC loses this one. thank goodness Philly sucks more than us
I see nothing wrong with the way we payed today outside of bunkering back a little too often in the final 20 and some individual errors which have little to do with coaching.

[MightyDM]

we had won 3 in 13, our defense and midfield had fallen apart, every player was regressing and we had just given the worst performance I've ever seen played by this team in the 3-0 loss at home to the revs. what happened last season would have happened if Nelsen was there 'till the end. don't kid yourself.

Missing my point Mr mole: no need to bash Nelsen in this thread. He has nothing to do with this game.

[shwade]

I see nothing wrong with the way we payed today outside of bunkering back a little too often in the final 20 and some individual errors which have little to do with coaching.

Considering how many starters Philly was missing it was disappointing not to have put this game to bed. We were due for a blowout and this would've been the perfect game.

[MightyDM]

won despite the incompetence. against better team esp away, TFC loses this one. thank goodness Philly sucks more than us

Yup, that's how I saw it. But I will take referee's errors in our favour. We are owed a few...

[ag futbol]

Considering how many starters Philly was missing it was disappointing not to have put this game to bed. We were due for a blowout and this would've been the perfect game.
And if our wide players could hit the water from the end of a pier it would have been 3-0 at half time.

[ronzilla]

The Philly goal was offside. Good call by the ref.

Seba is a BEAST what a freakn goal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJs-3dHzhz8

[shwade]

And if our wide players could hit the water from the end of a pier it would have been 3-0 at half time.

Yep, hence it being disappointing....

[Soccerpro]

Nice to get a win, but TFC don't really appear to play like a contender.

[Couchy81]

I thought there was a foul in the box not an offside on that called back goal but I could be mistaken.

[Jack]

LOL people. Seven road games and we've got three wins. Our DPs and other acquisitions seem to be developing chemistry and we stopped bleeding goals. It wasn't pretty, but when we tried to play pretty, we were getting shredded and Vanney was a chump. Just take the win and the two-game road winning streak coming home and enjoy it for an hour or so before picking out all the negatives. Jeez, you'd think this were a supporters forum or something....

[Huyton]

We should've scored four against that team. Good to go home with nine points in the bag, though. Seventeen of the remaining 27 at home.

And half of the travelling now done.

[Waggy]

If Gio had scored that RIDICULOUS chip (left foot, full stride, 35-40 yards from goal) it may have been the best goal I'd ever seen in MLS. Ibra worthy. Holy crap is he good.

Less good: it's year 9. Can we stop with the "hey it's the 80th minute, let's stop trying to have possession or put the other team under pressure and just let them run at us until the ref blows the whistle to make them stop" strategy?

[shwade]

LOL people. Seven road games and we've got three wins. Our DPs and other acquisitions seem to be developing chemistry and we stopped bleeding goals. It wasn't pretty, but when we tried to play pretty, we were getting shredded and Vanney was a chump. Just take the win and the two-game road winning streak coming home and enjoy it for an hour or so before picking out all the negatives. Jeez, you'd think this were a supporters forum or something....

Come on...there are valid criticisms here. No one's saying we didn't deserve to win...just that we should've won by more :D

[reggie]

last time i checked they don t give out points for how pretty we play...3 points baby.

[mook-life]

LOL people. Seven road games and we've got three wins. Our DPs and other acquisitions seem to be developing chemistry and we stopped bleeding goals. It wasn't pretty, but when we tried to play pretty, we were getting shredded and Vanney was a chump. Just take the win and the two-game road winning streak coming home and enjoy it for an hour or so before picking out all the negatives. Jeez, you'd think this were a supporters forum or something....

what our former fearless leader said

[notthesun]

I'll take 9 points. It's a bit of a minor miracle honestly considering some of the defending and decisions from Vanney I've seen so far.

Haven't seen any of the game but if we did get away with a bad call, I say it's good karma considering what happened to us vs. Columbus and Salt Lake.

[OgtheDim]

....Less good: it's year 9. Can we stop with the "hey it's the 80th minute, let's stop trying to have possession or put the other team under pressure and just let them run at us until the ref blows the whistle to make them stop" strategy?


They did that once it reached 3 minutes into extra time but yeah.

[reggie]

LOL people. Seven road games and we've got three wins. Our DPs and other acquisitions seem to be developing chemistry and we stopped bleeding goals. It wasn't pretty, but when we tried to play pretty, we were getting shredded and Vanney was a chump. Just take the win and the two-game road winning streak coming home and enjoy it for an hour or so before picking out all the negatives. Jeez, you'd think this were a supporters forum or something....
strolling down on this thread i thought we lost....come on people

[Red4ever]

what our former fearless leader said

Is he no longer a leader or no longer fearless? :)

[ensco]

The more I see of Altidore, the more I think he is the best forward in MLS.

Jozy is a ball-winning load, who can turn with grace and speed, and he has a lot of smarts.

It pains me to say it, but it's Bradley who looks nothing like a DP, let alone a $6M/year player.

[molenshtain]

is there a game this season where we've lost the battle in the middle of the field (exlcuding Columbus for obvious reason)?

[ManUtd4ever]

The more I see of Altidore, the more I think he is the best forward in MLS.

Jozy is a ball-winning load, who can turn with grace and speed, and he has a lot of smarts.

It pains me to say it, but it's Bradley who looks nothing like a DP, let alone a $6M/year player.

Agreed. Now if Bradley can manage to play at the same level for us as he does for the USMNT, it would be a different story.

[ManUtd4ever]

So now we move up to 5th place in the East with 1-2 games in hand on the clubs ahead of us. After the start we had to this road trip, I'll gladly take that heading into the home opener.

[ag futbol]

is there a game this season where we've lost the battle in the middle of the field (exlcuding Columbus for obvious reason)?
Bradley's wandering combined with Cheyrou's reduced speed at this point in his career makes it tough. These guys look great when we have the ball but overall not enough ground is being covered.

Jackson has been a huge asset because he will chase people all over the place

[Waggy]

They did that once it reached 3 minutes into extra time but yeah.

At the very latest it was when Gio came out in the 88th minute, but even before then it looked like our midfield vanished. Balls would go upfield for Jozy and or Gio and there wouldn't be any 2nd wave support behind them, everyone else was sitting back. It makes me cringe, the whole the best defense is a good offense thing.

[Mateo1985]

No matter what happened, I just want to congratulate everyone with awesome 3 points on the road)))

[nonc]

Huge win. Osorio should be starting for Findley imo.

[Detroit_TFC]

You never know what you will get with an untested backup goalkeeper. It could have been a lot worse.

[Jack]

Is he no longer a leader or no longer fearless? :)
Chickenshit follower g:D

[Ultra & Proud]

Huge win. Osorio should be starting for Findley imo.
He isn't much better. We should be looking at an upgrade there and on defence. And in goal. Shouldn't forget that.

But really, we're coming around. There's more to like than not so far. Not often have we been able to say that.

[ryan]

Huge win. Osorio should be starting for Findley imo.

Osorio hasn't shown all that much since his first season. Not sure who I prefer at this point.

[Areathrasher]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/05/02/armchair-analyst-toronto-fc-odyssey-ends-nine-points-and-plenty-promise

[Jack]

The more I see of Altidore, the more I think he is the best forward in MLS.

Jozy is a ball-winning load, who can turn with grace and speed, and he has a lot of smarts.

It pains me to say it, but it's Bradley who looks nothing like a DP, let alone a $6M/year player.

Jozy has been a beast up there and is a huge handful for defenders. But I dunno man, I think Bradley is good. He eats up space, joins in the build ups, breaks up a lot of plays, makes mostly smart passes and seems to be developing an understanding with Gio and Cheyrou. A lot of our forward movement passes through him or starts with him.

[reggie]

i agree...bradley has been ok room for improvement... i think benoit has been much better..

[OgtheDim]

Bradley has been box to box like everyone on here was saying he should be. The amount of times he comes back to the dline to get the ball has been reduced. This is a good thing.

On another note, did anybody else notice Perquis played right and Hagglund left today? Not all the time, but they switched a lot. And Hagglund did a few great passes through. Young lad needs a day off but progress.

[gate7]

Giovinco for president!!!!!


Finally a DP we can count on.:drum:

[Ultra & Proud]

Giovinco for president!!!!!


Finally a DP we can count on.:drum:
I think we can count on all 3. Everyone bringing something to the team. Not all based on goals & assists. Add in Cheryou and Perquis as well as the FC Dallas version of Jackson and we're looking alright. Yeah we got some good holes but I am hopeful we can plug a few of them with trades mid season. One thing about Bez is that he didn't look gun shy last year and his trades were alright.

[ensco]

Jozy has been a beast up there and is a huge handful for defenders. But I dunno man, I think Bradley is good. He eats up space, joins in the build ups, breaks up a lot of plays, makes mostly smart passes and seems to be developing an understanding with Gio and Cheyrou. A lot of our forward movement passes through him or starts with him.

I am not seeing it this in 2015. Hope you are right.

[ronzilla]

Giovinco for president!!!!!


Finally a DP we can count on.:drum:


I have no doubt he is the best player in the league.

If BMO home opener was not sold out, I bet it is now after Seba's goal.

[JavierMartini]

I have no doubt he is the best player in the league.

If BMO home opener was not sold out, I bet it is now after Seba's goal.

The new price points are a joke.

[Blixa]

It's been a weird few weeks for sure. We started out great only to see everything fall apart and then we won the last two games. If somebody had said 10 weeks ago that we'd end up with 9 points in fifth place I'd take it in a heartbeat. Now, let's win next week and get this season off to a proper start.

[Pookie]

So now we move up to 5th place in the East with 1-2 games in hand on the clubs ahead of us. After the start to we had to this road trip, I'll gladly take that heading into the home opener.

If MLS has to have playoffs, it's too bad they went with the easier to qualify scenario. Watching the standings is fun when every game means something. Now, it's kind of like 30+ mini exhibitions and provided you aren't in the bottom 4, on you go. I guess that will be labelled a success?

Really wish we just had a table champion.

As for the game, I am liking the attacking options. And the fact they are younger and can play together for awhile with lower risk of injury has me feeling optimistic.

[jloome]

Huge win. Osorio should be starting for Findley imo.

Mo Babouli deserves a start and I doubt he'd have missed four from close range already, which Findley has.

[OgtheDim]

Can Babouli play wide midfield, stick to it, thread through passes to Giovinco and has some defence? Honestly haven't seen him do that stuff with TFCII yet - he's been DeRo like.

And that's not what he needs to do to beat out Findlay and Osorio.

[nonc]

He isn't much better. We should be looking at an upgrade there and on defence. And in goal. Shouldn't forget that.
But really, we're coming around. There's more to like than not so far. Not often have we been able to say that.

Osorio hasn't shown all that much since his first season. Not sure who I prefer at this point.

I agree Osorio hasn't been going in a good direction, however I do believe his best MLS showings (and some have been great) came out-of-position on the wing which seems relevant. Even so I guess I just think he's a better overall player despite his recent play.

[Jack]

If MLS has to have playoffs, it's too bad they went with the easier to qualify scenario. Watching the standings is fun when every game means something. Now, it's kind of like 30+ mini exhibitions and provided you aren't in the bottom 4, on you go. I guess that will be labelled a success?

Really wish we just had a table champion.

As for the game, I am liking the attacking options. And the fact they are younger and can play together for awhile with lower risk of injury has me feeling optimistic.
Bottom four in the conference. And if we win the cup, would you celebrate any less because we finished 4th or 5th?

[portu]

Still worried that were playing Nelsen ball with different and better personnel, hope we gain more attacking impetus for Home games

[__wowza]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CECVTGBUEAAm3Fu.png:large

above the red line despite not playing a home game all season. that's a result to be proud of!!

[jloome]

Can Babouli play wide midfield, stick to it, thread through passes to Giovinco and has some defence? Honestly haven't seen him do that stuff with TFCII yet - he's been DeRo like.

And that's not what he needs to do to beat out Findlay and Osorio.

He's played as a wide forward for them and yes, he's done all that stuff. ANd he's already a better player than Findley and Osorio.

He's wasted in USl. I don't doubt a season there is good for him, but the odd start for the first team is due.

[Hamilton_Red]

Two clean sheets in a row is a huge improvement. Far from convincing in the second half - we rode our luck a little.

Alti & Gio work well - but not consistently. Bradley - is still a little underwhelming so far this season - good enough defensively but could do more.

For me - Jackson has been a big improvement...I hope his substitution was nothing serious. Morgan has also been a bit of a revelation this season - good to see him taking his chance.

Steve

[Super]

Honestly guys: 9 points out of 7 away trips is beyond amazing! What's our away record? Like 5 wins? I'm behind this team 100%

[MightyDM]

There were offensive moments that were chaotically brilliant. Team defense sometimes looked the same way - I think both connected to Bradley. His aggressive, harrying work on the ball led to opportunities but also created openings for the Union. I liked this Bradley but it will be interesting to see if better teams can take advantage of the gaps behind him.

cheyrou, Altidore, Bradley and Seba sure can provide exciting moments, and Jackson didn't look out of place with them. Less use of Morgan's attacking strength in this formation though. I'd love to see him get a start on the wing or as wing back in a 3-5-2 or similar. Maybe in a cup game.

[anto7]

Still worried that were playing Nelsen ball with different and better personnel, hope we gain more attacking impetus for Home games
I don't mean to sound disrespectful but I sometimes wonder if people think before they post. Did you not see the previous games before the Orlando win? Vanney changed the system on purpose to try and gain some defensive stability and take the pressure off both himself and the team after 4 losses in a row. It may not have been as pretty the last 2 games but it was needed and it worked and we came away with 6 points. Now I am not suggesting he will immediately go back to the offensive style he previously tried to employ, but just be patient and I think we will see him open things up again gradually.

[anto7]

I think MLS Armchair Analysist Matt Doyle gives a good synopsis of TFC's season so far, worth a read

[Pookie]

Bottom four in the conference. And if we win the cup, would you celebrate any less because we finished 4th or 5th?

I celebrated at gate 3 after regular season wins so of course there would be celebration.

Fundamentally though, the playoff idea doesn't sit with me. IMO, they either need to make them tougher to qualify or progress or do away with it entirely.

An an example would be that only the table champion from each conference qualifies and the Cup champion is determined from them. Much like the way MLB used to operate. Being the World Series winner was a grind. The season meant something.

As it stands now, TFC just needs to amass more points than 2 expansion clubs, the Impact and one other team to qualify. The 6th team is usually about 20+ points behind the conference leader. I don't feel any importance on regular season games. Ironic in that it feels a little like the CFL.

If we squeak in and win a knock out game but lose in the second round, MLSE will call that a successful run and probably try to increase ticket prices. Are you in agreement with that interpretation of it being a successful run?

[Shakes McQueen]

It's pretty clear that our defense still needs a lot of work, so here's a question: What would you do to fix it?

[Ultra & Proud]

I celebrated at gate 3 after regular season wins so of course there would be celebration.

Fundamentally though, the playoff idea doesn't sit with me. IMO, they either need to make them tougher to qualify or progress or do away with it entirely.

An an example would be that only the table champion from each conference qualifies and the Cup champion is determined from them. Much like the way MLB used to operate. Being the World Series winner was a grind. The season meant something.

As it stands now, TFC just needs to amass more points than 2 expansion clubs, the Impact and one other team to qualify. The 6th team is usually about 20+ points behind the conference leader. I don't feel any importance on regular season games. Ironic in that it feels a little like the CFL.

If we squeak in and win a knock out game but lose in the second round, MLSE will call that a successful run and probably try to increase ticket prices. Are you in agreement with that interpretation of it being a successful run?
The problem is that you see things in the wrong way regarding this subject. Also general MLS fans see the MLS Cup as the main prize because it's the traditional way for North American sports and that's wrong too but that is through MLS and their advertising.

To compare it to England to be easy:
Supporters Shield is the most important prize. That is the MLS Champion just as it is to win the single table league in Europe or anywhere else. It just isn't marketed right by MLS. Whether they market it right doesn't matter to me because I recognize that as the true champion of our league but MLS should do the same. It only makes sense. Things should'nt have to be dumbed down or Americanized (synonym?) for the masses. Pretty sure most people would get it.

The MLS Cup to me is just the cup at the end of a league tourney. It's not much different than the League Cup but it's actually more exclusive and more important, in that teams actually use their starters and want to win it.

So it's all about perception and what matters to you. That being said I would be happier if MLS did more to make the Supporter's Shield seem a little more important than the President's Trophy.

[Detroit_TFC]

^ I agree with this, but I would include all the teams in the post season and make it a true league cup. The bottom teams would either compete in a play in round (like now but more teams) or just bracket the whole thing based on regular season pts. Eventually, shift the league championship to the SS and re-conceptualize the MLS Cup as self contained league cup competition.

This is wish list stuff, though. In the same file folder as pro/rel.

[trane]

We won, we did not concede, bottom line. Giovinco and Altidore on top are great, and Bradley is doing what he shuold be doing and more. I am not sure what people expect of him in his role.

My only criticism is what I had said last week, this was the natural formation/system for this team, and had we adopted it sooner we would have had more points by this time. Yes 9 is not bad after a road trip, but we could have at least picked up a coupled of draws.

[DOMIN8R]

It's pretty clear that our defense still needs a lot of work, so here's a question: What would you do to fix it?

I don't know about that, Shakes. I think that they just need more time to gel (along with the midfield) further. Let's keep the slower but focused defenders in the middle and stop experimenting. Centerbacks need to stay in the centre. If we keep the same formation and line up, I can see a few more clean sheets on the horizon.

If carver was still at the helm, he would have us try and score more goals rather than bunker, to secure a win. That would leave us more vulnerable, lead to more pressure and goals against.

It's not pretty. But this flat 4,4,2 and bunkering works in this league.

[OgtheDim]

How much of the defensive issues happened because of Konopka flailing around at crosses and not providing any communication to his defenders? He missed....what.....5 come out and get attempts?

I was willing to give him a chance but that was ugly. I know the team will likely say, "Got a clean sheet. Did OK." But, surely Roberts can't be as bad as that. Hopefully Bendik comes back for Sunday and then Roberts can go back to gaining experience down at TFCII.

[Ultra & Proud]

How much of the defensive issues happened because of Konopka flailing around at crosses and not providing any communication to his defenders? He missed....what.....5 come out and get attempts?

I was willing to give him a chance but that was ugly. I know the team will likely say, "Got a clean sheet. Did OK." But, surely Roberts can't be as bad as that. Hopefully Bendik comes back for Sunday and then Roberts can go back to gaining experience down at TFCII.
My main problem with Roberts is that he's small. Not sure how he'd do coming out against bigger physical MLSers and I am sure teams would be targeting that and making the box just pure chaos.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't know about that, Shakes. I think that they just need more time to gel (along with the midfield) further. Let's keep the slower but focused defenders in the middle and stop experimenting. Centerbacks need to stay in the centre. If we keep the same formation and line up, I can see a few more clean sheets on the horizon.

If carver was still at the helm, he would have us try and score more goals rather than bunker, to secure a win. That would leave us more vulnerable, lead to more pressure and goals against.

It's not pretty. But this flat 4,4,2 and bunkering works in this league.

My own sense is that if you're "winning ugly" consistently, there's got to be room for improvement. Bunkering should be a temporary tactic, not your primary modus operandi - especially when you have attacking players as dangerous as ours.

But hey, I'm perfectly willing to be wrong on this, haha.

[shwade]

We won, we did not concede, bottom line. Giovinco and Altidore on top are great, and Bradley is doing what he shuold be doing and more. I am not sure what people expect of him in his role.

My only criticism is what I had said last week, this was the natural formation/system for this team, and had we adopted it sooner we would have had more points by this time. Yes 9 is not bad after a road trip, but we could have at least picked up a coupled of draws.

He did well enough defensively. It's just going forward (which he has to do when playing with Cheyrou) he just gets in his own way and his teammates way. Cheyrou is doing the same job better, going both ways.

[JavierMartini]

It's a long kick from Frei
The ball drops from the sky
To Martina

It bounces one time
Then a volley sublime
From Martina

It's a thunderous shot
and the goalie cannot
Stop Martina

He brought Victory
And he wears 33
Our Martina!

This 1000x

:-P

[Shakes McQueen]

The problem is that you see things in the wrong way regarding this subject. Also general MLS fans see the MLS Cup as the main prize because it's the traditional way for North American sports and that's wrong too but that is through MLS and their advertising.

I think the way MLS does it is fine - you have a Supporters Shield for people who value winning the table, and playoffs for people who grew up immersed in North American sports sensibilities. And because the MLS Cup is regarded as the "real" prize, teams don't trot out reserves for it.

I don't see MLS ever eliminating the playoff - especially without pro/rel, which is absolutely NEVER coming. Maybe they could accord the SS a little extra significance than it has now, by having teams add little "shields" to their shirts for each one they win, along with the stars for MLS Cups? Meh.

[Joe Kool]

My main problem with Roberts is that he's small. Not sure how he'd do coming out against bigger physical MLSers and I am sure teams would be targeting that and making the box just pure chaos.

Roberts must be able to handle it though otherwise why the hell are they keeping him around all these years. If his physical size makes him no good for MLS then cut the guy and invest time and money into another keeper. Obviously they think he can handle MLS at some point.

[Red CB Toronto]

Had a great time at the game despite the heart almost stopping a few times. Ran into a fellow RPB so was not the only one in the section beside the TFC bench. What a touch by Seba, he is just so enjoyable to watch. Looking forward to next Sunday big time after 7 on the road.

[PopePouri]

He's played as a wide forward for them and yes, he's done all that stuff. ANd he's already a better player than Findley and Osorio.

He's wasted in USl. I don't doubt a season there is good for him, but the odd start for the first team is due.

Up front, sure. On the wing, no thanks. He tends to make poor decisions in his own half.

[Pookie]

The problem is that you see things in the wrong way regarding this subject. Also general MLS fans see the MLS Cup as the main prize because it's the traditional way for North American sports and that's wrong too but that is through MLS and their advertising.

To compare it to England to be easy:
Supporters Shield is the most important prize. That is the MLS Champion just as it is to win the single table league in Europe or anywhere else. It just isn't marketed right by MLS. Whether they market it right doesn't matter to me because I recognize that as the true champion of our league but MLS should do the same. It only makes sense. Things should'nt have to be dumbed down or Americanized (synonym?) for the masses. Pretty sure most people would get it.

The MLS Cup to me is just the cup at the end of a league tourney. It's not much different than the League Cup but it's actually more exclusive and more important, in that teams actually use their starters and want to win it.

So it's all about perception and what matters to you. That being said I would be happier if MLS did more to make the Supporter's Shield seem a little more important than the President's Trophy.

I would agree with all of this and add that maybe their market isn't the traditional North American fan. Maybe soccer fans (generally) don't relate to a playoff format. Of course some soccer leagues have them but it's not the norm. TV ratings generally drop for the post season. Most fans in other cities, like most of us, don't bother watching.

I just think they need to decide and either step it up or do away with it.

I find the MLB season long but despite the wildcard addition, it's still tough to get in. That gives games meaning.

CFL is the opposite end. You'd have to suck pretty bad not to qualify. And that makes the regular season more of an exhibition season than anything. Most games have no meaningful impact on the playoff picture.

With 60% of the teams making it to at least a one game "playoff" knock out in MLS, we are getting there. Add in two expansion teams in TFC's conference and this season will only be a surprising clusterf$&k if they don't make it.

The season is essentially an exhibition season as playoffs should be highly likely and winning it all means nothing.

I think that's wrong.

[dupont]

I find the MLB season long but despite the wildcard addition, it's still tough to get in. That gives games meaning.

At least at the beginning. A lot of baseball teams know they are eliminated while still having to play two months of meaningless baseball towards the end of the season.

[DOMIN8R]

My own sense is that if you're "winning ugly" consistently, there's got to be room for improvement. Bunkering should be a temporary tactic, not your primary modus operandi - especially when you have attacking players as dangerous as ours.

But hey, I'm perfectly willing to be wrong on this, haha.

Despite the confidence in my previous post, I'm actually quite conflicted on whether bunkering, when we are ahead and trying to close-out and hoping for the occasional lucky counter versus parking the bus. Our history of blowing leads and ties late in the game has left me with some sort of TFC PTSD.

We should go back to you original question, if we were to make changes in the back line - what should they be? It's a good question!

[Pookie]

At least at the beginning. A lot of baseball teams know they are eliminated while still having to play two months of meaningless baseball towards the end of the season.

True. But climbing a big mountain feels better than going up a hill.

The out of it by mid season point is also true for mid table EPL teams too. No real relegation danger, no chance to win. I don't think their attendance suffers

[Shakes McQueen]

True. But climbing a big mountain feels better than going up a hill.

The out of it by mid season point is also true for mid table EPL teams too. No real relegation danger, no chance to win. I don't think their attendance suffers

And an established league filled with teams that have existed for generations, knitted into the very fabric of the communities they play in, with allegiance being a borderline religious responsibility in many cases.

It'd be like a soccer league filled with the equivalent of the Montreal Canadiens (EPL), versus a league filled with the equivalent of the Florida Panthers (MLS).

Maybe 30 years from now they can move to a more "traditional" European format, but for now, the playoff format is a smart move. Keeps fans interested longer, because more teams have more to play for, for more time.

And frankly, I don't see why the European format is so much better anyway. Put more emphasis on the achievement of winning the Supporters Shield, keep the playoff format in, and you can have the best of both worlds.

Bam, done. I'm a problem solver.

[Pookie]

And an established league filled with teams that have existed for generations, knitted into the very fabric of the communities they play in, with allegiance being a borderline religious responsibility in many cases.

It'd be like a soccer league filled with the equivalent of the Montreal Canadiens (EPL), versus a league filled with the equivalent of the Florida Panthers (MLS).

Maybe 30 years from now they can move to a more "traditional" European format, but for now, the playoff format is a smart move. Keeps fans interested longer, because more teams have more to play for, for more time.

And frankly, I don't see why the European format is so much better anyway. Put more emphasis on the achievement of winning the Supporters Shield, keep the playoff format in, and you can have the best of both worlds.

Bam, done. I'm a problem solver.

So how do you put more emphasis on the Shield?

Current winner (and #2 seed) already get through the knock out round and have the inside edge to host the Cup final.

What would be wrong with making the playoffs more exclusive… like an MLB format? I prefer the old MLB where just the division champs moved on but even now… 5 of 15 qualify. 33%. Versus 12 of 20 or 60%

Take it further there are 2 expansion clubs this year. If the East, if two of the ten are expansion clubs that generally finish last… TFC's odds to make it should be about 75% (6 of 8). That's better than the Argos chances this year..

[ag futbol]

I agree the diluted form of MLS playoffs is sub-optimal. They should really tighten things up. Not opposed to playoffs but please avoid including more than half the league. MLB type format definitely makes sense IMO.

Btw was anyone actually interested through the entire playoffs last year? It was too long and disjointed IMO.

[BuSaPuNk]

I agree the diluted form of MLS playoffs is sub-optimal. They should really tighten things up. Not opposed to playoffs but please avoid including more than half the league. MLB type format definitely makes sense IMO.

Btw was anyone actually interested through the entire playoffs last year? It was too long and disjointed IMO.

The off weeks didn't help that at all.

I think an expanded playoff format should look at rewarding the top two teams in both conferences more. Straight qualification to the conference semis perhaps?

[Detroit_TFC]

Could sweeten SS challenge by attaching a $200K* GarberBuxs gift certificate to the win.

* or whatever amount would make it an incentive, anything below $75K seems too low.

[lobo]

Excuse me. Pardon the interruption, but ...

CLEANSHEET!!! Again!

That is all.

[Redpunkfiddle]

I think an expanded playoff format should look at rewarding the top two teams in both conferences more. Straight qualification to the conference semis perhaps?

Ask and ye shall receive? The new playoff format has the 3-6 seed teams in a one game 'play-in' at the higher seed's stadium with the 1 and 2 teams given a bye to the two legged 'conference semi-finals'. At least they increased the importance of finishing higher in the table. Last year, the 3rd seed didn't have to play that extra game. If you get in through the 5-6 seed you don't get a home playoff game unless you go through.

[Hamilton_Red]

So how do you put more emphasis on the Shield?

Current winner (and #2 seed) already get through the knock out round and have the inside edge to host the Cup final.

What would be wrong with making the playoffs more exclusive… like an MLB format? I prefer the old MLB where just the division champs moved on but even now… 5 of 15 qualify. 33%. Versus 12 of 20 or 60%

Take it further there are 2 expansion clubs this year. If the East, if two of the ten are expansion clubs that generally finish last… TFC's odds to make it should be about 75% (6 of 8). That's better than the Argos chances this year..

Shakes - has got it about right. The thing that we could add is some prize money for winning the league and automatic entry to CONCACAF. Winning the play-offs would also get you into the CONCACAF tournament. I'd like to see 2 divisions with promotion and demotion. Fix the international and bye weekend nonsense...and a few more mid-week games.

[OgtheDim]

Pro / Rel is the ultimate MLS :deadhorse:

[JavierMartini]

Mo Babouli deserves a start and I doubt he'd have missed four from close range already, which Findley has.

Id love to see him play in montreal

[notthesun]

Id love to see him play in montreal

He's on a USL contract and is thus ineligible for Voyageurs Cup play.

[Jack]

The problem is that you see things in the wrong way regarding this subject. Also general MLS fans see the MLS Cup as the main prize because it's the traditional way for North American sports and that's wrong too but that is through MLS and their advertising.

To compare it to England to be easy:
Supporters Shield is the most important prize. That is the MLS Champion just as it is to win the single table league in Europe or anywhere else. It just isn't marketed right by MLS. Whether they market it right doesn't matter to me because I recognize that as the true champion of our league but MLS should do the same. It only makes sense. Things should'nt have to be dumbed down or Americanized (synonym?) for the masses. Pretty sure most people would get it.

The MLS Cup to me is just the cup at the end of a league tourney. It's not much different than the League Cup but it's actually more exclusive and more important, in that teams actually use their starters and want to win it.

So it's all about perception and what matters to you. That being said I would be happier if MLS did more to make the Supporter's Shield seem a little more important than the President's Trophy.
Mexico uses playoffs to determine their champion. A league with a long history and plenty of tradition. Admittedly, they only have eight teams in their playoffs, so there is a bit more of an achievement in making it. They've been using the Liguilla to determine the champion since the 70s and their league is very healthy.

[SKB]

Good Weekend. Both Chicago and New York lost. With the next 7 games at home we should be able to move up in the table

[Waggy]

The thing I never understood- the biggest annual soccer competition in the world, champions league, is a playoff. You have your regional divisions. The division winner plus x wild card teams make the playoffs. You then do a round robin playoff before getting to home and home knock out before 2 teams are left standing for a grand final. No-one seems to complain about it taking away from 'winning the division'. Even though in most european leagues only 4 or 5 teams really stand a chance from day one of the regular season.

The problem isn't that the playoffs make the regular season matter less. The problem is that in north america soccer isn't big enough to be seen as important in the regular season and the playoffs. NFL regular season matters like crazy, so does college football. NHL/NBA and MLB regular seasons would all matter if they only played 30-40 games (playing as many as they do makes the regular season matter less).

[Fort York Redcoat]

The thing I never understood- the biggest annual soccer competition in the world, champions league, is a playoff. You have your regional divisions. The division winner plus x wild card teams make the playoffs. You then do a round robin playoff before getting to home and home knock out before 2 teams are left standing for a grand final. No-one seems to complain about it taking away from 'winning the division'. Even though in most european leagues only 4 or 5 teams really stand a chance from day one of the regular season.

The problem isn't that the playoffs make the regular season matter less. The problem is that in north america soccer isn't big enough to be seen as important in the regular season and the playoffs. NFL regular season matters like crazy, so does college football. NHL/NBA and MLB regular seasons would all matter if they only played 30-40 games (playing as many as they do makes the regular season matter less).

You are comparing separate tournaments. League vs Champions League. One is a playoff and one is a single table. They involve different teams for the most part.

Playoffs make the season matter less here because its the same teams competing for the Shield.

Comparing league playoffs to CL is disingenuous.

Look at NA sports fans. I heard just this weekend " I only watch it (NA sport) in the playoffs." Does that sound uncommon to anyone here? You don't get that as often with footy fans saying "I only tune in for the CL".

[Beach_Red]

Pro / Rel is the ultimate MLS :deadhorse:

I used to agree with this but now I'm not so sure. MLS modeled itself on North American leagues (really, the NFL) because it felt it needed to appeal to fans of other sports to get as big as those leagues. But if the TV ratings don't improve and if MLS doesn't get better media in general in America then that strategy may be revisited.

[OgtheDim]

Pro Rel ain't gonna help TV ratings.

[Beach_Red]

Pro Rel ain't gonna help TV ratings.

If anyone knew what would help TV ratings it would be happening now. We're heading into unchartered territory here. Looking at what the NFL and NBA did to increase TV ratings so long ago won't help now so almost anything is possible going forward.

[Ajax TFC]

MLS owners that paid $40-100m to join the league will never agree to a format where that team that they paid $40-100m for could be playing second tier soccer.

[jloome]

Pro Rel ain't gonna help TV ratings.

It does everywhere else.

[Lennon]

MLS owners that paid $40-100m to join the league will never agree to a format where that team that they paid $40-100m for could be playing second tier soccer.

What if they got payments from a parachute? or somethin' ..

[jloome]

MLS owners that paid $40-100m to join the league will never agree to a format where that team that they paid $40-100m for could be playing second tier soccer.

People keep saying this and yet owners do exactly that in every other country. You think all those Champ. and League one teams in ENgland are local fan-owned clubs or something?

Most fans want it; it's been polled three times in the last five years on both MLSSoccer and SBI, and pro/rel has won each time, handily. On top of that, we're rapidly getting past the point where we'll have a reasonable number of teams for a first division.

Pro/rel makes life exciting for clubs at the bottom end fo the table /top end of div. 2, which gives fans of teams out of the playoffs a reason to say involved. ANd all of those clubs that go down over there don't automatically go broke; they downsize their expectations until they can get back to the top flight.

Add in some extremely restrictive covenants on pro/rel -- i.e. to be promoted a team must have a min. seasont ticket base and big enough stadium, plus win a playoff against the team going down -- along with financial aid from the top league to the team that is relegated, and it's not hard to accomplish.

People cheer for their LOCAL team. That's the whole point of the fan-based culture that drives MLS. If the second divsion's quality is good enough, people won't abandon their home team en masse for going down a flight. Generally, they don't in other countries. They lose a small portion.

So most of the hyperbole about pro/relegation is just that.

[ag futbol]

What if they got payments from a parachute? or somethin' ..
Not going to happen. TV sponsors wouldn't like it either with markets potentially not covered due to a team's performance. They'll go AL-NL like MLB if they grow large enough (I'd assume).

We can't compare what was grandfathered into Europe with what exists currently in NA. European owners would scrap relegation if they could get away with it.

[OgtheDim]

It does everywhere else.

We don't actually know that. Pro Rel existed before the TV contracts. Although there might be some ratings that come from "Oh look at those poor fans weep" day, and from the playoffs to go up, there is little to indicate that this audience wouldn't be there otherwise.

We just don't know.

The idea that Pro/Rel can help in North America is based on suppositions of what might happen. We do know what would happen if Pro/Rel were instituted - investor flight.

[OgtheDim]

People keep saying this and yet owners do exactly that in every other country. You think all those Champ. and League one teams in ENgland are local fan-owned clubs or something?

Most fans want it; it's been polled three times in the last five years on both MLSSoccer and SBI, .

I know for certain that apart from about 8 long term Div 1/EPL teams, all teams in England are locally supported first and foremost and are set up purposefully to be working at a certain level. When/if they go up, they have to make adjustments/investments. Many are unwilling to make those investments so happily sit mid table between 2 leagues. Sugar daddies come and go.

This is not a recipe for excitement.


And don't get me started on the bias inherent in SBI and MLS polls.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'll keep ignoring playoffs but I'm not going to tout pro rel until the "pyramid" is anywhere near stable. It is not.

[Beach_Red]

It does everywhere else.

But it grew naturally in those other places. And it might here when there are too many teams that think they can win it all to play each other twice in one season.

the other difference, of course, is that in those other places the leagues started as groupings of clubs whereas here the league started as a single entity selling franchises. MLS is closer in structure to Tim Hortons or McDonalds than it is to other soccer leagues.

But, anything can happen. If the TV ratings don't go up a lot the next TV deal may not look very good and there might be investor flight then anyway. Drastic measures may need to be taken.

[Ajax TFC]

People keep saying this and yet owners do exactly that in every other country. You think all those Champ. and League one teams in ENgland are local fan-owned clubs or something?

Most fans want it; it's been polled three times in the last five years on both MLSSoccer and SBI, and pro/rel has won each time, handily. On top of that, we're rapidly getting past the point where we'll have a reasonable number of teams for a first division.

Pro/rel makes life exciting for clubs at the bottom end fo the table /top end of div. 2, which gives fans of teams out of the playoffs a reason to say involved. ANd all of those clubs that go down over there don't automatically go broke; they downsize their expectations until they can get back to the top flight.

Add in some extremely restrictive covenants on pro/rel -- i.e. to be promoted a team must have a min. seasont ticket base and big enough stadium, plus win a playoff against the team going down -- along with financial aid from the top league to the team that is relegated, and it's not hard to accomplish.

People cheer for their LOCAL team. That's the whole point of the fan-based culture that drives MLS. If the second divsion's quality is good enough, people won't abandon their home team en masse for going down a flight. Generally, they don't in other countries. They lose a small portion.

So most of the hyperbole about pro/relegation is just that.
While I agree with most of what you're saying, I still don't think investors will. Elsewhere in the world, that structure of Promotion/Relegation is already in place, so people who buy teams in that structure do so knowing that that's how it works. Over here, people paid good money to own teams in a non-competitive environment. No competition for contracts, and a structure where teams that do bad are given the resources to become good rather than fall further back. It's a completely different animal from places like Europe, with a different kind of investor. I'm also not convinced that the north american fan will support their team as heavily in the second division as they would in the first division. You can talk about what they should do, but investors only care about what they will do. Just look at the attendances of the teams that came up to MLS from lower divisions before and after they came up to MLS. I think all of them had a dramatic increase in attendance when they moved up to MLS.

[Pookie]

MLS owners that paid $40-100m to join the league will never agree to a format where that team that they paid $40-100m for could be playing second tier soccer.

Their share in the SUM Revenue and MLS itself doesn't decline if they were relegated. Salaries are paid by the league. Ticket revenue is shared. I don't think it's doom and gloom on the financial front by being relegated (assuming MLS ran the "League 2")

[OgtheDim]

Can't see D1 teams accepting D2 having the same share. And God help MLS if there was no NY or LA team in the 1st division. Sponsorship is tied to location ratings here in North America.

No, they are far more likely to go with the National/American baseball or football approach then to pro/rel.

[Pookie]

Can't see D1 teams accepting D2 having the same share. And God help MLS if there was no NY or LA team in the 1st division. Sponsorship is tied to location ratings here in North America.

No, they are far more likely to go with the National/American baseball or football approach then to pro/rel.

Well legally, the current MLS teams that were relegated would still have the same share in MLS. Operating a franchise gets you a share in MLS, the value of which really isn't up for negotiation.

[Beach_Red]

Well legally, the current MLS teams that were relegated would still have the same share in MLS. Operating a franchise gets you a share in MLS, the value of which really isn't up for negotiation.

So, the only difference would the schedule - which teams you play against?

[jloome]

So, the only difference would the schedule - which teams you play against?

And bragging rights.

That's all it's about. You think people in Fort Lauderdale will party any less, and the players any less, if they win the NASL title this year?

Pookie's right; the finances are all centrally controlled. They can ensure dropoffs don't drastically hurt the relegated team.

I see a lot of the same "they won't go for it", but no one explaining why. Again, simply saying "they had to accept it" is not a critique.

Also, America has a tax shelter system that allows a parent to write off costs against just about any subsidiary, so as long as the owner is already rich, there's almost no downside to owning a team that either makes a couple of million or loses a couple. You either make money or take a tax writedown against one of your other entities.

Most of the critiques assume that because MLS pursued a structural league model the same as other North American sports, its financial direction is also the same. But that's not the case; without major TV revenue, there simply aren't 'major losses" from going down a div. You might go from losing a million to a million-five.... or you make money, because your salary budget is cut by half, because you release most of the MLS-wage level players.

We're talking small economic margins to most of these guys.

But what it does do is give both leagues a chance to make money off of the end of the season. It's extra playoff series, and it makes every LOSS count as much as every win, rather than the season effectively being over with many games left for some teams.

[Beach_Red]

And bragging rights.

That's all it's about. You think people in Fort Lauderdale will party any less, and the players any less, if they win the NASL title this year?



I have no idea. I know that doesn't work in other sports - someone won the International League World Series (or whatever they call the championship) last year and I guess they partied in whatever city it was and for all I know the games were on a local TV station but it certainly didn't make the ESPN highlights. the Marlies have gone deep into the playoffs in recent years but no one in Toronto celebrates. I imagine if Toronto had a NASL team and they won a championship there would be a party but I'm not sure the rest of the city would notice. It might like the Argos winning the Grey Cup.

But it may very well work in soccer. I'm coming around to the idea that soccer is separate from the other sports in North America. It may actually have more in common with NCAA sports which do have a kind of pyramid and almost pro-reg systems. So it might work.

[brad]

I see a few other problems with promotion/relegation, most stemming from the perception. MLS is viewed as the top league in Canada/US, NASL is below it.

*perception. People want to watch the best. This already hurts us compared to other, better leagues. When a team gets relegated, they are no longer in the best league in Canada/US. That will certainly bleed some fans, and likely affect TV. Does NBC or whoever want to broadcast a second tier game on the main channel in a good time slot? Unlikely.

*What happens when one of the big market teams gets relegated? A real possibilty in a "parity" league. Is the MLS going to risk the Galaxy or a New York team getting relegated?

*To the above point, this league is actively expanding, and expansion teams generally suck. NYCFC and/or Orlando could easily get regulated in their first year, as could other expansion teams. Do you protect them? For how long.

*DP's. Is Giovinco, Kaka, Lampard, Gerrard, Villa, etc going to play second division football in North America? Maybe if the paycheck stays the same, but I have to think that you are going to start seeing relegation release/trade clauses being injected and DP's leaving. Which also affects the marketability of the big market teams.

Also, as an aside, I'm on the MLS Supporters Council, and the recent survey (this morning) asked people if they could pick one trophy for their team to win, what would it be? Currently, 8% say Shield, 35% say CCL, and 58% say MLS cup. Not sure overall numbers, but it's clear that SS is bottom of the pile in priority, and MLS Cup is top,

[Jack]

Promotion and relegation in US sports leagues are flat out not gonna happen. Get over it. At best, we'll get something like baseball and hockey's farm teams with call-ups and sending down (which we are already seeing happen with MLS clubs). This is our version of soccer in Canada and the US, so let's make the best of it and enjoy.

Playoffs are not a bad way to end the season and determine the champion, although I do agree that it would be nice if they were a touch more exclusive (although having half the league make it in doesn't seem to take away from the NHL or NBA playoff excitement).