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Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 02:23 PM
David Amoyal @DavidAmoyal (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal) · 9m9 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590231626346590210)

Been told that a loss in next match will bring a coaching change at Toronto FC, and next manager is expected to be Italian (more to come)


David Amoyal @DavidAmoyal (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal) · 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590232152085770240)

A former Milan director could also take over operations at Toronto FC according to a trusted source with knowledge of situation


David Amoyal @DavidAmoyal (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal) · 4m4 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590232827947540480)

More to come on Toronto FC, but info I have so far comes from a source I trust very much #PreviousTweets (https://twitter.com/hashtag/PreviousTweets?src=hash)

notthesun
04-20-2015, 02:25 PM
Is it wrong to hope we lose the next game now?

Then again, does it even matter? Once the wheels start rolling on this thing there's usually no stopping it.

I am 100% in favor of this if we hire a replacement who has, you know, actually coached a senior team before.

starter
04-20-2015, 02:25 PM
That is interesting. It should be regardless if we lose or not.

portu
04-20-2015, 02:28 PM
I'm not deciding whether or not I want us to lose next game until I know exactly who is in the running to succeed Vanney

portu
04-20-2015, 02:29 PM
In amoyals second tweet it sounds like there are two candidates an Italian and a former Milan director

Oldtimer
04-20-2015, 02:29 PM
I'd like to see a more TFC-focused source like Molinaro before we start taking this rumour seriously.

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 02:30 PM
It should be noted this guy has connections in Italy, but none at TFC. On the trustwortiness scale, I don't know. There's been no talk out of MLSE land about a change, and given the various sources people have, a move to get rid of both Bez and Vanney would likely have leaked before now.

Who would be that "former Milan director" he would be talking about?

Red CB Toronto
04-20-2015, 02:30 PM
Maybe Roberto Donadoni?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Donadoni

Red CB Toronto
04-20-2015, 02:33 PM
I'd like to see a more TFC-focused source like Molinaro before we start taking this rumour seriously.

It is coming from an ESPN writer, one of the sports news powers, so there has to be some fire from the smoke.

Wagner
04-20-2015, 02:33 PM
how about we stick with a coach?
Road wins are tough to come by, so we are going to get a bunch of early losses.

There have been some friendlies and other distractions.

Let's see what our record is in June before we start worrying about this stuff.

notthesun
04-20-2015, 02:33 PM
It should be noted this guy has connections in Italy, but none at TFC. On the trustwortiness scale, I don't know. There's been no talk out of MLSE land about a change, and given the various sources people have, a move to get rid of both Bez and Vanney would likely have leaked before now.

Valid, but he also writes for Di Marzio's website, the most reliable transfer source in Italy (they broke the Giovinco-to-TFC story). I doubt this is entirely hot air.

Detroit_TFC
04-20-2015, 02:35 PM
Seems far fetched but man, oh man, wouldn't it be maximum TFC to pull the lever before a home game has even occurred.

portu
04-20-2015, 02:35 PM
Giovanni Trapattoni, Marcelo Lippi, Paolo di Canio, Ranieri all out of a job right now

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 02:35 PM
how about we stick with a coach?
Road wins are tough to come by, so we are going to get a bunch of early losses.

There have been some friendlies and other distractions.

Let's see what our record is in June before we start worrying about this stuff.

This.

If we really pull the plug this early, and bring in a couple of dudes completely new to MLS, we might as well kiss 2015 and 2016 goodbye.

starter
04-20-2015, 02:36 PM
Whether Vanney stays or not should be making a bigger football mind than Bez, who should stick to backroom MLs wizardry.

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 02:36 PM
Trapattoni wouldn't live in Dublin when he was Ireland manager, doubt he moves to Toronto.

Detroit_TFC
04-20-2015, 02:37 PM
Di Canio. That is a scary thought, not in a good way.

MKR
04-20-2015, 02:37 PM
no way this move hinges on the next game. If the wheels for this are in motion, then the decision has already been made to can TB and GV.

n

Fort York Redcoat
04-20-2015, 02:37 PM
I just leave this here for future:


"Italian coach blames quality of MLS players with TFC exit after less than a season..."

and around goes the coach carousel.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 02:39 PM
how about we stick with a coach?
Road wins are tough to come by, so we are going to get a bunch of early losses.

There have been some friendlies and other distractions.

Let's see what our record is in June before we start worrying about this stuff.
First, I am no fan of 'new' to MLS managers and staff. It can work or it can go boom as we've seen before. However, giving Vanney too long, with our schedule, will doom this year. Doesn't take a lot to see that he looks to be one of the most ill prepared managers we've had yet and that's saying something.

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 02:42 PM
David Amoyal ‏@DavidAmoyal (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal) 11m11 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590235314804908032) @Areathrasher (https://twitter.com/Areathrasher) I mean they have Bradley and Giovinco who played in Serie A, I have a few names in mind but trying to confirm.

I think he's been told something by somebody he trusts but who doesn't really know.

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 02:42 PM
Wonder if this "Milan director" comes in as president above Bez and Bez is kept on to be capoligst/MLS experience guy?

king10
04-20-2015, 02:43 PM
Italians are great tacticians but I dont know, rather have someone with knowledge of MLS.

starter
04-20-2015, 02:44 PM
Wonder if this "Milan director" comes in as president above Bez and Bez is kept on to be capoligst/MLS experience guy?

This would make sense.

Frings22
04-20-2015, 02:44 PM
*Breaking NEWS!*FORMER MILAN JANITOR HIRED AS NEW TFC COACH!

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 02:45 PM
Maybe Roberto Donadoni?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Donadoni

Parma have problems. He's coached Giovinco and has played in MLS.

Hmmmmm

Wagner
04-20-2015, 02:46 PM
First, I am no fan of 'new' to MLS managers and staff. It can work or it can go boom as we've seen before. However, giving Vanney too long, with our schedule, will doom this year. Doesn't take a lot to see that he looks to be one of the most ill prepared managers we've had yet and that's saying something.

apparently Vanney was a genius after the Vancouver game.
let's see what he can do with a full and healthy squad.
and the home crowd behind our team.

king10
04-20-2015, 02:46 PM
how about we stick with a coach?
Road wins are tough to come by, so we are going to get a bunch of early losses.

There have been some friendlies and other distractions.

Let's see what our record is in June before we start worrying about this stuff.

Waiting till June would be too late and this season would be a write off. Vanney is not the guy, and frankly Bez isn't either. Neither have experience necessary. Bez retooled at our strong positions and left our weak positions exposed. Vanney has constantly got line ups wrong.

mowe
04-20-2015, 02:50 PM
Hahaha that would be SO TFC but I doubt it's that imminent. It would take 3 more consecutive losses for Vanney to get fired. AKA win the home opener at all costs (and ideally Orlando and Philly before that - both very winnable games).

But if the home opener is our seventh straight loss then I don't see a reason for Vanney to stick around. In any case, we're gonna win our next two, just watch.

ag futbol
04-20-2015, 02:52 PM
ROFL.

When are the upper management types going to take responsibility for their coaching choices?

Btw without some solid "knows MLS" backbone to this, I'd consider this a risky move.

Joe Kool
04-20-2015, 02:53 PM
how about we stick with a coach?
Road wins are tough to come by, so we are going to get a bunch of early losses.

There have been some friendlies and other distractions.

Let's see what our record is in June before we start worrying about this stuff.

I agree. We all feel like shit after the early results following the anticipation from our offseason signings especially the way the losses happened but I would not like to see a coaching change right now. The road stint at the beginning of this year was always going to be tough. If we start off our home record in a crappy fashion then come June I would be more in favour of a change. At the same time, in the meantime, watching a coach learn on the job with our team sucks too while we maintain the butt of jokes for MLS. The games have looked like pick up games at times with doses of chaos throughout. There have been a few individual positive flashes each game along with some questionable lineup choices as well. Vanney definitely is painting himself into a corner.

Seba
04-20-2015, 02:53 PM
Maybe Roberto Donadoni?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Donadoni

Donadoni has the quality to coach the very best teams in Europe, he would be amazing but he would also be big money.

I'd say splashing the cash on a top coach like him would make more sense then another big signing, but I don't see him coming.

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 02:53 PM
If we lose the next 5, then Vanney goes.

And it won't be so some Italian dude with no MLS experience who will vent about MLS rules and players. It will be Fraser. And then at the end of the season, if we don't make the playoffs, Bez and Fraser are fired and we spend 2016 waiting for 2017 to be our breakout finally in the playoffs year.

ag futbol
04-20-2015, 02:54 PM
Name that I forget is former NER player ... italian international, coached in series A extensively.

Walter something ... Someone chime in here

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 02:57 PM
Name that I forget is former NER player ... italian international, coached in series A extensively.

Walter something ... Someone chime in here

Well if you want to contemplate a complete disaster and get MLS 1.0.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Zenga


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Zenga)

portu
04-20-2015, 02:59 PM
Name that I forget is former NER player ... italian international, coached in series A extensively.

Walter something ... Someone chime in here
Zenga? Please no.

barticusz
04-20-2015, 03:01 PM
This.

If we really pull the plug this early, and bring in a couple of dudes completely new to MLS, we might as well kiss 2015 and 2016 goodbye.

I'd welcome a change in management only if it's for an experienced manager with pedigree. I like Vanney, and I always support giving a manager at least a couple of years. However, you don't walk away from an experienced managing candidate. I would want Bez to stay on though as he understands MLS, and the cap constraints.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:01 PM
It will be Fraser. And then at the end of the season, if we don't make the playoffs, Bez and Fraser are fired and we spend 2016 waiting for 2017 to be our breakout finally in the playoffs year.
This is the thing that's been worrying me since we signed Fraser. He's also part of the current problems.

ag futbol
04-20-2015, 03:03 PM
Well if you want to contemplate a complete disaster and get MLS 1.0.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Zenga


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Zenga)
Yeah ... Just what came to mind given the speculation.

Agreed, would be risky.

portu
04-20-2015, 03:05 PM
Add Tardelli and Prandelli to the list of high profile unemployed Italians

kuku
04-20-2015, 03:06 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/465557336665645057/a-MNVcWe_normal.jpeg Tony Marinaro @TonyMarinaro · 6m 6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/TonyMarinaro/status/590243183893860352) TorontoFC shopping for Italian manager. My contacts in Italy tell me Rino Gattuso ideal candidate. Former player. Bilingual. Understands MLS

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 03:07 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/465557336665645057/a-mnvcwe_normal.jpegtony marinaro@tonymarinaro · 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/tonymarinaro/status/590243183893860352) torontofc shopping for italian manager. My contacts in italy tell me rino gattuso ideal candidate. Former player. Bilingual. Understands mls

noooooooooopppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeee no no no

Frings22
04-20-2015, 03:08 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/465557336665645057/a-MNVcWe_normal.jpegTony Marinaro@TonyMarinaro · 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/TonyMarinaro/status/590243183893860352) TorontoFC shopping for Italian manager. My contacts in Italy tell me Rino Gattuso ideal candidate. Former player. Bilingual. Understands MLS
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO VANNEY WE LOVE YOU DONT GO!!! Anybody but gattuso, is mariner looking for a job?

portu
04-20-2015, 03:08 PM
Holy shit another inexperienced dumbass

Detroit_TFC
04-20-2015, 03:08 PM
^ what the fuck does Gattuso know about MLS? Or managing for that matter.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:09 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/465557336665645057/a-MNVcWe_normal.jpegTony Marinaro@TonyMarinaro · 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/TonyMarinaro/status/590243183893860352) TorontoFC shopping for Italian manager. My contacts in Italy tell me Rino Gattuso ideal candidate. Former player. Bilingual. Understands MLS

So his wife is from Toronto? Oh oh.

barticusz
04-20-2015, 03:10 PM
Please not Gattuso..

ag futbol
04-20-2015, 03:11 PM
^ what the fuck does Gattuso know about MLS? Or managing for that matter.
The ref blowups would be epic.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:11 PM
Winter/Mariner/De Klerk all over again. But maybe even worse.

portu
04-20-2015, 03:11 PM
Of aaaaaallllll the Italian managers currently unemployed our brilliant overlords at MLSE think GATTUSO is fit for the job?!?!? Sorry but I'd rather keep Vanney

go read the guys wiki as it pertains to his managerial career guy is nuts and can't hold a job
"throughout the press conference he controversially threw out curse words and banged the table"

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:13 PM
Yeah how does he know MLS? Ask him to name 5 teams that aren't LA or NY.

A Stick
04-20-2015, 03:14 PM
Gattuso's wife is from Glasgow. Surely it can't be him, look at his track record.

Cas87
04-20-2015, 03:15 PM
:deadhorse:until we make the playoffs and have any sustained success, this is what the upper management, supporters, media and on-lookers are doing.

sometimes change is more disruptive than the status quo. I agree with some others on the board with the fact that the beginning of this year has been one of the strangest (renos, long road trip, multiple bye weeks), and the remainder will be just as weird the rest of the way (Pan Ams, Gold Cup, friendies).

Maybe just letting everything settle with this organization is whats best for this year (as it is something we have not done before)

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:15 PM
Gattuso's wife is from Glasgow. Surely it can't be him, look at his track record.
Said he met her in Toronto unless she was following Rangers. According to Wiki anyhow.

But no, it better not be him.

portu
04-20-2015, 03:19 PM
I'm not opposed to firing Vanney at this point but the manager in coming has to be a definite upgrade especially with the pool of managers of available, Gattuso is a joke of a manager

king10
04-20-2015, 03:19 PM
^ what the fuck does Gattuso know about MLS? Or managing for that matter.

Wife from toronto, managed sion, palermo and crete

notthesun
04-20-2015, 03:21 PM
Winter/Mariner/De Klerk all over again. But maybe even worse.

Yeah... I'm getting that feeling already if Gattuso is accurate. And Bez would be the Mariner in this structure if he stays on.

If we're blowing this up we need to hire an experienced manager first and foremost.

starter
04-20-2015, 03:21 PM
If a president is considered, would it not make sense to let him choose a coach?

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:27 PM
Yeah... I'm getting that feeling already if Gattuso is accurate. And Bez would be the Mariner in this structure if he stays on.

If we're blowing this up we need to hire an experienced manager first and foremost.
Agree but a blow up isn't necessary. Can Vanney and (some) staff. Hire Petke and let him keep whatever staff he likes and let him replace the rest. Works perfect to do it now and get acquainted on road trip and be ready for home opener.

Hiring the Italians means the season is toast. Totally done. Maybe even more done than leaving Vanney keep the status (crap) quo.

Jack
04-20-2015, 03:28 PM
Gattuso's a rumour started by a Montreal reporter...

TFC reporters are saying it's not happening.

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 03:31 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/465557336665645057/a-MNVcWe_normal.jpegTony Marinaro@TonyMarinaro · 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/TonyMarinaro/status/590243183893860352) TorontoFC shopping for Italian manager. My contacts in Italy tell me Rino Gattuso ideal candidate. Former player. Bilingual. Understands MLS


His source is Gattuso's manager.

And that last phrase tells me how much Marinaro knows about MLS.

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 03:32 PM
John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 31m31 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/590243540539613185) You can file this Vanney rumour in the same category as the Pizza Pizza sponsorship, I'm told. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:33 PM
John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 31m31 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/590243540539613185) You can file this Vanney rumour in the same category as the Pizza Pizza sponsorship, I'm told. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)
Let's hope that's true. With this team you can never be too sure. No (bad) rumor is too far fetched or crazy enough not to contemplate.

TFC07
04-20-2015, 03:34 PM
End of the day, soccer is soccer. This "MLS experience" crap shouldn't be a major factor of hiring an manager.

It's all about tactics and man management that should be main factor in hiring a manager. I bet you any money MLSE doesn't bother much when comes to this aspect of hiring a manager. Lack of direction (due to lack of leadership) is reason why we can never get right manager and soccer president (which we don't even have) to run this club.

I won't be mad to get rid of Vanney who is clearly not qualified to run this club (In fact, I would have him run TFC II which is perfect role for Vanney since he's strength is developing players).

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 03:35 PM
Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) 4s4 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/590252044818128896) Absolutely no truth to any rumour about Vanney getting sacked should Reds lose in Orlando. Not happening as of now.

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 03:36 PM
End of the day, soccer is soccer. This "MLS experience" crap shouldn't be a major factor of hiring an manager.
...

And yet it always has been, with a number of notable failures in the past. Lets see how Houston do this year for the latest experiment.

TFC07
04-20-2015, 03:36 PM
To be fair, I remember most of mainstream media guys saying same thing with Seba rumours even though Italian media was reporting TFC interest. So I would take their words with grain of salt as well.

TFC07
04-20-2015, 03:38 PM
And yet it always has been, with a number of notable failures in the past. Lets see how Houston do this year for the latest experiment.

You can't use TFC as an example to prove this point since we never hired qualified manager (you know that actually had manage a pro team in the past).

With this current roster, you need an experience manager who has manage "world class" players in the past. Vanney is youth coach while Bez is backroom office worker. Those two aren't qualified to run a professional soccer club.

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 03:39 PM
The Giovinco rumors started from Italy and were initially denied by Toronto sources. And it then turned out while they were denying them Bez had already been in Italy and had dinner with Giovinco.

Why would Italian sources go out of there way to make up rumors about TFC?

portu
04-20-2015, 03:40 PM
I remember I tweeted at Larson last year when Bez popped up after training and asked him if Nelsen was on the hot seat and he said that Nelsen had a long leash, Nelsen was fired that Sunday

Also the Italians had the jump on the Giovinco stuff so right now it's Italy>Toronto for me

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 03:41 PM
To be fair, I remember most of mainstream media guys saying same thing with Seba rumours even though Italian media was reporting TFC interest. So I would take their words with grain of salt as well.

Larson and Molinaro tweets are likely 2 different sources in TFC reaching out and squashing this. The Pizza Pizza reference is almost a word for word repeat of that incident....minus Rollins, who also is saying he hasn't heard anything on this.


The smouldering thing underneath all this is the relationship between Seba's agent and Bez/TL. Does that guy represent any Italian managers?

TFC07
04-20-2015, 03:41 PM
The Giovinco rumors started from Italy and were initially denied by Toronto sources. And it then turned out while they were denying them Bez had already been in Italy and had dinner with Giovinco.

Why would Italian sources go out of there way to make up rumors about TFC?

Exactly.

It's local media that is in denial because they're probably bitter not to break the news. I always take foreign source more seriously than local media we have here.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:42 PM
I am 100% sure that TFC is looking around Italy for a manager/GM/President/whatever. Kicking tires anyway. I think this is a sign that Vanney's leash is getting short. A firing/hiring may not be imminent but it's being considered now and honestly, look at his record, it's awful and would be deserved almost anywhere.

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 03:43 PM
You can't use TFC as an example to prove this point ....

I'm not. Ruud Gullit, for one. It just doesn't happen. And betting on it is foolish.

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 03:44 PM
Exactly.

It's local media that is in denial because they're probably bitter not to break the news. I always take foreign source more seriously than local media we have here.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDEBJpZUsAA109t.jpg

John later went on to confirm the signing.

portu
04-20-2015, 03:45 PM
It appears Andrea d'Amico is Gattuso's agent as well as Seba's
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_D'Amico_(football_agent)
There is a former Milan assistant and caretaker manager on that list as well (Tassoti)

Oldtimer
04-20-2015, 03:46 PM
*Breaking NEWS!*FORMER MILAN JANITOR HIRED AS NEW TFC COACH!

Ha-ha, that would be almost typical, wouldn't it?

OgtheDim
04-20-2015, 03:46 PM
It appears Andrea d'Amico is Gattuso's agent as well as Seba's :facepalm:

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:47 PM
I'm not. Ruud Gullit, for one. It just doesn't happen. And betting on it is foolish.
You're right but a dynamic could, in theory be set up and work in MLS IF egos don't get in the way. Very unlikely but a foreign Manager should be able to run the roster/tactics/daily training and a more MLS experienced back room can acquire players and scout. It should work but it usually doesn't.

notthesun
04-20-2015, 03:47 PM
If we hire Gattuso this 12th floor window beside me is going to start looking awful enticing.

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 03:47 PM
It appears Andrea d'Amico is Gattuso's agent as well as Seba's

Bollocks

TFC07
04-20-2015, 03:47 PM
I'm not. Ruud Gullit, for one. It just doesn't happen. And betting on it is foolish.

Well that is only one example.

Given there isn't a lot of "MLS experience" coaches out there, you most likely would have to hire someone outside of MLS circle.

Also, if you look at this roster, there aren't many MLS coaches that have experience managing top tier players.

We need a proper coach with experience (including managing "world class" players) and have accomplish something as a manager.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:48 PM
It appears Andrea d'Amico is Gattuso's agent as well as Seba's
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_D'Amico_(football_agent)
There is a former Milan assistant and caretaker manager on that list as well (Tassoti)
Can't we just have the Milan janitor mentioned above?

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 03:49 PM
If we hire Gattuso this 12th floor window beside me is going to start looking awful enticing.
You're lucky. I'm on the ground floor. I'll have to take my chances by darting head long out into traffic.

Oldtimer
04-20-2015, 03:51 PM
End of the day, soccer is soccer. This "MLS experience" crap shouldn't be a major factor of hiring an manager.

It's all about tactics and man management that should be main factor in hiring a manager.

Then why do foreign managers with no MLS experience have a terrible record in the league?
No other league deals with the travel issues that MLS does. Knowledge of the American player and their limitations is really important, their strenghts and weaknesses are different than in other leagues. No other league has super-stars mixed with kids earning minimal wages on the starting 11.

It's naive to think that a foreign manager can just step in and do well. A small number have, but so many have failed.

ronzilla
04-20-2015, 03:52 PM
Vanney has to go. It's not even a question.

Auzzy
04-20-2015, 03:54 PM
Holy shit Vanney drives me nuts sometimes, and I agree he should have been hired as a caretaker or temp from the start. But this would be messed up to the extreme.

Leiweke is leaving soon. He's already a lame duck in many aspects. MLSE is going to be hiring a new CEO and/or president. Who knows what comes after that in terms of organizational change. Unless they have one of very small number of sure-bet MLS coaches lined up, I wish MLSE/TFC and all the rest of us would chill the eff out. (Arena and Sigi Schmid only really come to mind for me. Petke doesn't rate high enough to risk a short-term change shortly before a new CEO/president comes on, and pulling the ejection seat based on a handful of road games.)

Some folks are worried about waiting too long and wasting 2015. I'm worried about wasting 2015, but also about wasting 2016 & 2017 as well. Be careful what you wish for.

And wrt. to some of the comments above, the list of failed international coaches in MLS is much longer than the list of successful international coaches. Might work for an organization & city with lots of patience to try things a different way. That's not the case for TFC & Toronto.

notthesun
04-20-2015, 03:54 PM
John later went on to confirm the signing.

Heh. Tweets that on January 10th and we sign him officially 9 days later.

Fair to say we'll have to see how this plays out...

TFC07
04-20-2015, 03:56 PM
Then why do foreign managers with no MLS experience have a terrible record in the league?
No other league deals with the travel issues that MLS does. Knowledge of the American player and their limitations is really important, their strenghts and weaknesses are different than in other leagues. No other league has super-stars mixed with kids earning minimal wages on the starting 11.

it's naive to think that a foreign manager can just step in and do well. A small number have, but so many have failed.

Yeah, but limited examples doesn't mean much.

League is changing where players are getting better technical wise while coaching isn't. So we need to look outside where managers know how to manage properly.

Issues like travelling and others are minor issues compare to tactics and ability to manage players (especially those players including Americans coming from Europe).

There's very small pool of coaches in MLS circle so you will have to look outside to find experience manager to manage this club anyway.

flamehawk
04-20-2015, 04:01 PM
As much as I hope that none of this is true, but how great would it be if we were able to entice Lippi. As tough as it is for a foreign manager to success in MLS, Lippi has shown adaptivity finding success in China.

And I know this might be considered fluff, but this summary of Lippi's philosophy from his book bodes well:


In his book Il Gioco delle Idee: Pensieri e Passioni da Bordo Campo (A Game of Ideas: Thoughts and Passions from the Sidelines), Lippi outlined his coaching philosophy. Lippi emphasizes the importance of team spirit and team unity. Lippi likens a psychologically well integrated football team to the functioning of a psychologically healthy family. On the strategic aspect of coaching, Lippi emphasizes the importance of the mutual relations between players. Players must all follow the same plan and play for each other, "not" for themselves. Lippi argues that "a group of the best players do not necessarily make for the best team." What is more important, he argues, is that the tactical plan or formation is one that allows each player to maximize (1) his utility for his teammates and (2) the expression of his full potential. Lippi also notes that the choice of tactical formation is constrained by the qualities of the players available. Thus, selecting the best possible team not only requires finding the right combination of players for the chosen formation, but also finding the right formation for the chosen players.

Again, points to a willingness to adapt.

Beach_Red
04-20-2015, 04:02 PM
I just leave this here for future:


"Italian coach blames quality of MLS players with TFC exit after less than a season..."

and around goes the coach carousel.

Is there a way to pin this on the top of every page of this thread...

TFC07
04-20-2015, 04:03 PM
Holy shit Vanney drives me nuts sometimes, and I agree he should have been hired as a caretaker or temp from the start. But this would be messed up to the extreme.

Leiweke is leaving soon. He's already a lame duck in many aspects. MLSE is going to be hiring a new CEO and/or president. Who knows what comes after that in terms of organizational change. Unless they have one of very small number of sure-bet MLS coaches lined up, I wish MLSE/TFC and all the rest of us would chill the eff out. (Arena and Sigi Schmid only really come to mind for me. Petke doesn't rate high enough to risk a short-term change shortly before a new CEO/president comes on, and pulling the ejection seat based on a handful of road games.)

Some folks are worried about waiting too long and wasting 2015. I'm worried about wasting 2015, but also about wasting 2016 & 2017 as well. Be careful what you wish for.

And wrt. to some of the comments above, the list of failed international coaches in MLS is much longer than the list of successful international coaches. Might work for an organization & city with lots of patience to try things a different way. That's not the case for TFC & Toronto.

So who exactly is out there that can manage this team? I love to hear this MLS experience managers who have manage and be successful at it with DP's.

There isn't many of them out there, so you most likely (if you want to have experience manager) will come outside of MLS circle. People on here put too much stock on MLS experience or having American born manager because he knows the league instead of focusing on manager with knowledge on tactics and man management first.

ronzilla
04-20-2015, 04:04 PM
Lippi has also won the WC in 2006.

Richard
04-20-2015, 04:07 PM
Take these rumors with a huge grain of salt, as much as I want Harry Potter axed as I think he shouldn't be managing player personal decisions these guys would be a lot worse.

sidvan
04-20-2015, 04:15 PM
Maybe it's for Malcolm's job. We need an Italian kitman.

MartinUtd
04-20-2015, 04:17 PM
Di Canio. That is a scary thought, not in a good way.


Di Canio has unfinished business here. I'd love to see the look on Altidore's face when he hears the news.

portu
04-20-2015, 04:19 PM
At the very least we'd get another 10 minutes "entertainment" at the end of every game http://youtu.be/HS9HxCjU9t0

Super
04-20-2015, 04:19 PM
This is a tough one. I'm strongly against signing any coach without experience EVER AGAIN - unless said player has a past as a top player with Toronto FC, so that at least they intimately know the team, culture, city, etc. (like Kreis did with RSL). It's worth noting that RSL didn't make the play-offs in his first season as coach.

We need experience. Go try and steal one from one of the other MLS teams. Surely there's a way to buy one. We're spending $25 mil on the team, so a couple of mil might go a long way to getting a top MLS manager with experience.

0bl1vious
04-20-2015, 04:25 PM
You're lucky. I'm on the ground floor. I'll have to take my chances by darting head long out into traffic.

Diving header at full pace into live traffic. I'm with you.

portu
04-20-2015, 04:29 PM
Diving header at full pace into live traffic. I'm with you.
We should all just lie down on train tracks, all for one

bigredone
04-20-2015, 04:43 PM
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFfbanqmuFm1xEeMPwtyqWPq9u8Gd8z XyMSRoq109fvkL8QaE53A

__wowza
04-20-2015, 04:44 PM
http://i.imgur.com/YQSY7.png

made this for r/tfc, still relevant no?
fuck.. this was before vanney even got hired, i should update it.

Richard
04-20-2015, 04:46 PM
http://i.imgur.com/YQSY7.png

made this for r/tfc, still relevant no?
fuck.. this was before vanney even got hired, i should update it.

Omg thats amazing.

portu
04-20-2015, 04:47 PM
Just realized the one reason Gattuso won't get hired... Bradley would lose control of team tactics, Gattuso would never put up with Bradley's player-manager BS

ag futbol
04-20-2015, 04:48 PM
The Giovinco rumors started from Italy and were initially denied by Toronto sources. And it then turned out while they were denying them Bez had already been in Italy and had dinner with Giovinco.

Why would Italian sources go out of there way to make up rumors about TFC?
Inclined to agree. Where there's smoke there's fire etc...

dupont
04-20-2015, 04:53 PM
OH God. Firing the coach during the season AGAIN and before our first home game? If they do this, it will show that the higher ups at TFC haven't learned anything even after making the same mistake 8 times. They should have have either let Vanney go after last season or AFTER this season. Mid season coaching changes are the fucking worst.

Super
04-20-2015, 05:09 PM
OH God. Firing the coach during the season AGAIN and before our first home game? If they do this, it will show that the higher ups at TFC haven't learned anything even after making the same mistake 8 times. They should have have either let Vanney go after last season or AFTER this season. Mid season coaching changes are the fucking worst.

It's only a disaster if you hire the wrong replacement - like we usually do. However, I'd be happy to make the move if it's for a manager with experience at a very high level. Lots of clubs replace managers during a season and manage to turn things around. One thing I do NOT want to see is us go 1-10 and still do nothing, effectively throwing the season away. NOTHING Vanney has shown us so far should give us confidence in him - and since he's a rookie, then honestly I think we should cut our losses and go hire experience. Enough with the rookies, please. We need more help than just some guy who wants to be a coach. I've been saying this since year one. My 2 main problems since I saw game 1 at BMO was: a) why did we hire a coach with ZERO experience, and b) where's the roof, and why does this stadium look nothing like a football stadium.

trane
04-20-2015, 05:14 PM
Giovanni Trapattoni, Marcelo Lippi, Paolo di Canio, Ranieri all out of a job right now

Trapa and Lippi for me, Trapa in particular he knows how to do more with less, and defend, defend, defend.

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 05:16 PM
Trapa and Lippi for me, Trapa in particular he knows how to do more with less, and defend, defend, defend.

Like I said earlier in the thread. He wouldn't move to Ireland when he was our coach, why would he come here? Especially at his age.

ronzilla
04-20-2015, 05:22 PM
Trap is too old and I don't like his style of play.

Lippi would be my #1 choice.

Look at his record:

Club

Juventus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus)

Serie A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A) (5): 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_1994-95), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_1996-97), 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_1997-98), 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_2001-02), 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_2002-03); Runners-up (1): 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_Serie_A)
Coppa Italia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppa_Italia) (1): 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppa_Italia_1994-95); Runners-up (1): 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppa_Italia_2003-04)
Supercoppa Italiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercoppa_Italiana) (4): 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Supercoppa_Italiana), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Supercoppa_Italiana), 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Supercoppa_Italiana), 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Supercoppa_Italiana);
UEFA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Cup): Runners-up (1) 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Cup_1994-95)
UEFA Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League) (1): 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_1995-96); Runners-up (3): 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_1996-97), 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_1997-98), 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_2002-03)
European Supercup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Supercup) (1): 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_UEFA_Super_Cup)
Intercontinental Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Cup_%28football%29) (1): 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Intercontinental_Cup)

Guangzhou Evergrande (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou_Evergrande)

Chinese Super League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Super_League) (3): 2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Chinese_Super_League), 2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Chinese_Super_League), 2014 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Chinese_Super_League)
Chinese FA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_FA_Cup) (1): 2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Chinese_FA_Cup)
AFC Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Champions_League) (1): 2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_AFC_Champions_League)

International

Italy national football team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_football_team)

FIFA World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup) (1): 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup)

Individual



Serie A Coach of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_Coach_of_the_Year): 1997, 1998, 2003
IFFHS The World's best National Coach: 2006
IFFHS World's Best Club Coach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFFHS_World%27s_Best_Club_Coach): 1996, 1998
Onze d'Or Coach of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onze_d%27Or#Coach_of_the_Year): 1997
Italian Football Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Football_Hall_of_Fame): 2011
Chinese Football Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Football_Association) Coach of the Year: 2013

0bl1vious
04-20-2015, 05:35 PM
Lippi is retired.

Canary10
04-20-2015, 05:39 PM
OH God. Firing the coach during the season AGAIN and before our first home game? If they do this, it will show that the higher ups at TFC haven't learned anything even after making the same mistake 8 times. They should have have either let Vanney go after last season or AFTER this season. Mid season coaching changes are the fucking worst.

Mid-season? I'd call it start of season at this point, no?

I can't believe we are in this groundhog day again (even though I do think it's necessary). Whatever we end up doing, it's almost 100% guaranteed to be wrong.

TFC07
04-20-2015, 05:47 PM
I wonder who (Larry T or Leiweke) is behind decision of hiring Italians?


Remember that Bez and Vanney are Leiweke guys, but now that he's leaving, I wonder if MLSE just "cleaning" up his mess that he left.

ANTZ
04-20-2015, 05:47 PM
We need Italian Defenders!!!!!!!

portu
04-20-2015, 05:51 PM
Amoyal is going to be on TFC pitch side show in 50 minutes to talk Vanney out, now the question is what is TFC pitch side and how do I listen in

pdubs
04-20-2015, 05:53 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDEBJpZUsAA109t.jpg

John later went on to confirm the signing.

nice lol. hope he sees this haha

Red4ever
04-20-2015, 06:01 PM
We need Italian Defenders!!!!!!!

We need good defenders or defenders that are well coached in a cohesive system.

i could give a shit where they're from

Pint
04-20-2015, 06:06 PM
Amoyal is going to be on TFC pitch side show in 50 minutes to talk Vanney out, now the question is what is TFC pitch side and how do I listen in

A link will be tweeted out is the response i got from Amoyal

Brooker
04-20-2015, 06:06 PM
We don't know what we're doing, we don't know what we're doing, we don't know what we're doing....

mowe
04-20-2015, 06:10 PM
The Giovinco rumors started from Italy and were initially denied by Toronto sources. And it then turned out while they were denying them Bez had already been in Italy and had dinner with Giovinco.

Why would Italian sources go out of there way to make up rumors about TFC?

Gareth Wheeler was the first to report that TFC were pursuing Giovinco. It caught Molinaro/Larson and the other local guys completely off guard. And in Italy they immediately dismissed it. Then a few weeks later Di Marzio reported they already met, then Molinaro "confirmed" the signing.

This is clearly some Italian guys talking to the higher ups at MLSE (who knows how seriously), nothing really to do with Bez/TFC. And no way MLSE would've had anything remotely close to serious discussions about a new manager at this point.

Wagner
04-20-2015, 06:26 PM
Waiting till June would be too late and this season would be a write off. Vanney is not the guy, and frankly Bez isn't either. Neither have experience necessary. Bez retooled at our strong positions and left our weak positions exposed. Vanney has constantly got line ups wrong.
changing a coach now would make 2015 a write off.
let's see what some home games do.

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 06:27 PM
Gareth Wheeler was the first to report that TFC were pursuing Giovinco. It caught Molinaro/Larson and the other local guys completely off guard. And in Italy they immediately dismissed it. Then a few weeks later Di Marzio reported they already met, then Molinaro "confirmed" the signing.

This is clearly some Italian guys talking to the higher ups at MLSE (who knows how seriously), nothing really to do with Bez/TFC. And no way MLSE would've had anything remotely close to serious discussions about a new manager at this point.

Nope.

It was mediaset in Italy who were the first to report anything on Giovinco to TFC. This was the first report http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/juventus/2015/articoli/1055521/juventus-giovinco-verso-la-mls-pressing-del-toronto-fc.shtml

MightyDM
04-20-2015, 06:31 PM
how about we stick with a coach?
Road wins are tough to come by, so we are going to get a bunch of early losses.

There have been some friendlies and other distractions.

Let's see what our record is in June before we start worrying about this stuff.

There are serious issues that need to be addressed with tactics and defence. For me it's not losses, it's the manner of the RSL, Chicago and Dallas losses that is the concern. The other teams scored at will in the most important times, which was a problem for Vanney's teams last year. This needs to be addressed immediately. If they can, some of the moments the team has shown offensively may mean Vanney can be given the time to grow into it. If not, he can't be, it's shambolic at the moment.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 06:33 PM
changing a coach now would make 2015 a write off.
let's see what some home games do.
That's as much of a dice roll as getting someone new.

Vanneys record is horrible. Win percentage around 20%. Besides scoring more goals, which are mostly due to bursts of individual class rather than by design, what have we seen from Team Vanney after 15 matches in charge?

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 06:35 PM
That's as much of a dice roll as getting someone new.

Vanneys record is horrible. Win percentage around 20%. Besides scoring more goals, which are mostly due to bursts of individual class rather than by design, what have we seen from Team Vanney after 15 matches in charge?

We are wonderful in attack.

If that's due to coaching or personal is up for discussion.

MightyDM
04-20-2015, 06:44 PM
:deadhorse:until we make the playoffs and have any sustained success, this is what the upper management, supporters, media and on-lookers are doing.

sometimes change is more disruptive than the status quo. I agree with some others on the board with the fact that the beginning of this year has been one of the strangest (renos, long road trip, multiple bye weeks), and the remainder will be just as weird the rest of the way (Pan Ams, Gold Cup, friendies).

Maybe just letting everything settle with this organization is whats best for this year (as it is something we have not done before)

That was for last year, and the should have let it play out under Nelsen. With Gio, Bradley, Cheyrou, Altidore etc its time to win now. Sorry but that's what Vanney inherited.

reggie
04-20-2015, 06:46 PM
this is all on BEZ...no balance on this club.

MightyDM
04-20-2015, 06:47 PM
Agree but a blow up isn't necessary. Can Vanney and (some) staff. Hire Petke and let him keep whatever staff he likes and let him replace the rest. Works perfect to do it now and get acquainted on road trip and be ready for home opener.

Hiring the Italians means the season is toast. Totally done. Maybe even more done than leaving Vanney keep the status (crap) quo.

sorry but I can't agree that hiring an experienced competent coach means the season is done. Hiring Vanney last year was likely to produce that result, as it did, but it's early days this year. Tough on Vanney though.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 06:51 PM
We are wonderful in attack.
Not consistently. A lot of the matches we've had since Vanney took over have seen us play the slowed down, sideways passing, cheap possession game that Nelsen had us doing about halfway through last season. Sometimes we've seen some great attacking football but most of it flowed through Gio and looked, to me at least, to be based more on individual talent and reaction than anything that was shown on a chalkboard or at the training ground.

Edit - Also if our attack was really wonderful we wouldn't have amassed 11 of the 48 points available during Vanney's reign while scoring 17 goals in 16 matches.

portu
04-20-2015, 06:51 PM
sorry but I can't agree that hiring an experienced competent coach means the season is done. Hiring Vanney last year was likely to produce that result, as it did, but it's early days this year. Tough on Vanney though.
I agree with MightyDM if there's a right time to change staff its now the earlier it happens the more time the new coach has to adjust

Justin10000
04-20-2015, 06:55 PM
Amoyal is full of shit. Sounds like a freelancer trying to get attention by posting a stupid rumour.

TFC Cityboy
04-20-2015, 07:08 PM
some random thoughts you may or may not agree with

-Regardless of what you thought of Nelsen, we were in a playoff spot when he was fired by Bez for his mate to take over
-Vanney should have been made interim to the end of the season IF RN had to go. If there was ever a team needing an experienced coach it was this team.
-Vanney has a similar win ratio as the one who wears shorts and yells at fans
-Bez's strength is managing the cap, he is valuable in that regard but he is not a football man/GM. Nerdy number-cruncher, yes, credibility as a GM no
-Even when at full strength, MLSE has once again failed to build a balanced squad. If they built a house, they'd start with a flashy roof then build the walls and floors. Meh? foundation? Overrated, sod it.A DP should be the player who makes a difference on top of a decent squad. MLSE throws money at stars, and gives not a shit about the garbage around them. It's fine to have Giovinco and Jozy but who is going to supply and when we lose the ball who can win it back? All good teams are built on a solid backline. Creavalle and Morgan as full backs break me out in a cold sweat at 3AM. Bloom and Morrow are a slight upgrade but still error prone.
-there is no apparent shape to the team. A centre back(Haggelund) should not continue a run to the halfway line by legging it into the box. I like the kid and hate to pick on him, but that screams out basic coaching flaws. My 14 y-old's team doesn't do that. The back 4 is often in a jagged line with no apparent leader, plays a high line with 2 slow centre backs (vs Vancouver).
-Is Warner an upgrade on the likes of Jeremy Hall? Presumably he or Creavalle now have the mlse sex tape?
-Bradley tries to do it all himself. Is that because he has no trust in his team mates or is he really a player-manager?

Confession time.
When Dallas scored after 30 seconds, I laughed.Full all-out belly laugh.
At 3-0 I wanted us to lose by 10 to force the issue (yes, yet again). Call me what you like but once again we need to blow the whole thing up.

MLSE unfortunately has no clue how to run a saccerrr franchise with the intent of success on the pitch.

I have no clue what the answer is, but can anyone seriously see us being a force in MLS with the Vanney pack?

portu
04-20-2015, 07:13 PM
Amoyal is full of shit. Sounds like a freelancer trying to get attention by posting a stupid rumour.
Except he isn't a freelancer

jabbronies
04-20-2015, 07:23 PM
Molonaro says it's about as real as the Pizza Pizza Kit sponsorship.

portu
04-20-2015, 07:56 PM
"It should come as no surprise to anyone that rumblings of a change in the hierarchy surfaced on Monday. Some of us close to the team have heard similar things over the past couple of weeks but that doesn't necessarily mean an immediate change is on the horizon." - Kristian Jack regarding potential sacking of Vanney, full article http://www.tsn.ca/1.262377

Ivy
04-20-2015, 07:59 PM
Except he isn't a freelancer
...or full of shit.

Very Big Beard
04-20-2015, 08:03 PM
From the Sporting KC wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Kansas_City):


Because Sporting Park was not ready for the beginning of the 2011 season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Major_League_Soccer_season), Sporting Kansas City played its first ten games on the road, only winning one game. Once the road trip was over, the team found more success and ended the regular season with the most points of any Eastern Conference team. After defeating the Colorado Rapids on a 4–0 aggregate in the Eastern Conference semifinals, Sporting lost to the Houston Dynamo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Dynamo) 2–0 in the Eastern Conference finals.

KC began the 2012 season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Major_League_Soccer_season) with seven consecutive wins, in the process setting an MLS record for 335 minutes without allowing a shot on goal.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Kansas_City#cite_note-16) The team finished the regular season first in the East with an 18–7–9 record. KC was led by Graham Zusi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Zusi), who delivered a league leading 15 assists and was named finalist for 2012 MLS MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_MVP_Award),[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Kansas_City#cite_note-17)Jimmy Nielsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Nielsen), who notched a league leading 15 shutouts and was named 2012 MLS Goalkeeper of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_Goalkeeper_of_the_Year), and Matt Besler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Besler), who was named MLS Defender of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_Defender_of_the_Year). KC lost to the Houston Dynamo in the conference semifinals. KC won the 2012 U.S. Open Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Lamar_Hunt_U.S._Open_Cup), defeating the Seattle Sounders in the finals, to qualify for the 2013–14 CONCACAF Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_CONCACAF_Champions_League).

Vermes took over late in 2009, failed to make the playoffs in 2010, and was 1-9 after 10 road games due to stadium construction. What does that remind you of?

New England lost something like eight games in a row last year. TFC fired Winter when that happened. New England went to the MLS Cup Final.

TFC have got to stop firing managers. Nothing. Else. Matters. It does not matter about any kind "pedigree" tied to nationality. We aren't fixing TFC with xenophobia. It does not matter what said manager did in the EPL. It does not matter what mistakes were made in firing Winter, Mariner, Nelson, or anyone else. It won't work.

Qman
04-20-2015, 08:08 PM
changing a coach now would make 2015 a write off.
let's see what some home games do.

2015 is already a write off.
why even go to any home games this year (other than see the stadium may 10). what a fucking waste of $2000

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 08:09 PM
Interesting stuff here from KJ http://www.tsn.ca/changes-need-to-happen-fast-at-tfc-1.262377

Wagner
04-20-2015, 08:14 PM
2015 is already a write off.
why even go to any home games this year (other than see the stadium may 10). what a fucking waste of $2000

i'm not sure if you're being sarcastic.

my take:
we're just getting our road losses out of the way.
we'll go on a nice run when we get home.

Ivy
04-20-2015, 08:15 PM
2015 is already a write off.
why even go to any home games this year (other than see the stadium may 10). what a fucking waste of $2000
lol.
Thats the attitude!

starter
04-20-2015, 08:16 PM
Interesting stuff here from KJ http://www.tsn.ca/changes-need-to-happen-fast-at-tfc-1.262377

If KJ heard something a couple of weeks ago, he sure was not in rush to share it.

TFC07
04-20-2015, 08:16 PM
"It should come as no surprise to anyone that rumblings of a change in the hierarchy surfaced on Monday. Some of us close to the team have heard similar things over the past couple of weeks but that doesn't necessarily mean an immediate change is on the horizon." - Kristian Jack regarding potential sacking of Vanney, full article http://www.tsn.ca/1.262377

Based on that article, looks like MLSE is looking for new coach and president/GM to run TFC not Leiweke who should have left by now.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-20-2015, 08:17 PM
s
At 3-0 I wanted us to lose by 10 to force the issue (yes, yet again).

cant say i ever laugh at us being scored on or losing. cant say i think we need to blow up yet again. TBH for the first time ever after hearing this rumor i thought about giving up our seasons tickets next year.

Qman
04-20-2015, 08:20 PM
i'm not sure if you're being sarcastic.

my take:
we're just getting our road losses out of the way.
we'll go on a nice run when we get home.


dallas was a fucking disgrace and the last straw.

its an embarrassment.

Wagner
04-20-2015, 08:25 PM
dallas was a fucking disgrace and the last straw.

its an embarrassment.

dude,
there are still like 30 games left to play.

and most MLS teams don't win on the road anyway.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-20-2015, 08:28 PM
I'd like this. Not a Vanny fan. I just don't feel they play or him. I'd throw Dichio in there. It'd get people behind the coach again, plus it's not like Vanny has much of experiences or, oh, I don't know, ever wins games.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 08:35 PM
Vanney never should have been hired as manager in the first place. I said it when Nelsen got sacked. Said it after the season when we went down the shitter but I said I would give him a fair shake this year. Fair shake time has ended. He is getting close to the worst record of all of our previous managers and it'd be hard to say that, albeit on the road, that our team has been improving since week 1. It's a decline and when he is sacked and I am sure he will be, then players and media will go on about how he didn't focus on tactics, training was shit, etc. Just like always. And just like always it's probably all true.

And I think we all know deep down that he isn't going to turn it around and that he will be fired this season. Since that is the case then it's better to get it out of the way now and just move on before we ruin the whole season waiting for Vanney to fail enough to make it all seem justified.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 08:44 PM
we'll go on a nice run when we get home.

Is this based on anything other than fan optimism? If not, what exactly have you seen that shows that we will go on a nice run at home? We haven't gone on a nice run at home for about 5 years. I don't see anything to say that we will go on any kind of a run unless it's the conceding first goals and trailing by halftime runs. We got those departments locked down since last September.

Wagner
04-20-2015, 08:49 PM
Is this based on anything other than fan optimism? If not, what exactly have you seen that shows that we will go on a nice run at home? We haven't gone on a nice run at home for about 5 years. I don't see anything to say that we will go on any kind of a run unless it's the conceding first goals and trailing by halftime runs. We got those departments locked down since last September.

most teams do better at home than on the road.

Pookie
04-20-2015, 08:50 PM
Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 08:51 PM
most teams do better at home than on the road.
True but if our winning percentage goes from our road sub 20% level to our more recently typical 40% at home then we'll be on the outside looking in yet again. And finish with less points than last year.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 09:06 PM
The more I go on about this, the more I think I made a big mistake by not running head long into traffic today. This team will be the death of me after it takes all my money, my hair, and my sanity. Two and half out of three gone already.

ensco
04-20-2015, 09:09 PM
Who exactly is supposedly making this decision?

Pookie
04-20-2015, 09:11 PM
^ I guess Leiweke? But it would have to go through the Board.

And then we can make another decision when Leiweke's replacement comes in.

Fun.

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 09:13 PM
Who exactly is supposedly making this decision?
Good question. In the KJ piece it sounds like they are getting a president as Lieweke is almost out the door and then probably change everyone else. Maybe they'll tie Bez & Vanney to TL when he leaves and clean the slate. If so then it's probably the MLSE board or people on it. I guess. Whole thing is weird.

Although in TFC spin land it would play out good in their minds. Lieweke hired Bez who fired Nelsen while we were in the playoffs and hired Vanney. Blame the whole thing on them, say fans deserve better and that we needed a 'high profile' guy to run things, and voila; spin campaign done.

ensco
04-20-2015, 09:21 PM
Only way this makes sense to me is if this is something Bradley (or Bradley + Giovinco) is doing, because they are filling the leadership vacuum.

It seems to me that Leiweke would not be keen on this, it makes his stalwart support of Bez look pretty silly.

Pookie
04-20-2015, 09:23 PM
Good question. In the KJ piece it sounds like they are getting a president as Lieweke is almost out the door and then probably change everyone else. Maybe they'll tie Bez & Vanney to TL when he leaves and clean the slate. If so then it's probably the MLSE board or people on it. I guess. Whole thing is weird.

Although in TFC spin land it would play out good in their minds. Lieweke hired Bez who fired Nelsen while we were in the playoffs and hired Vanney. Blame the whole thing on them, say fans deserve better and that we needed a 'high profile' guy to run things, and voila; spin campaign done.

The Board would approve any hiring/firing. I'm not sure they would initiate it though. TL is plausible.

Another theory is that we have some expensive decision influencing players in our midst… what's the saying… "money is power"?

Who knows really?

Areathrasher
04-20-2015, 09:24 PM
I'm wagering it's Giovincos agent driving it.

Pookie
04-20-2015, 09:39 PM
2015 is already a write off.
why even go to any home games this year (other than see the stadium may 10). what a fucking waste of $2000

Cheer up man. This is MLS 2015. Now with 10% more playoff qualification.

This MLSE team doesn't need to be good. They don't even need to be average. They just need to be slightly below average and then the execs can call this season a success and hit you up with marked up tickets at special "loyalty" rates.

When you need a team to deliver slightly below average performance, MLSE teams are a safe bet.

trane
04-20-2015, 09:45 PM
^The first place I heard Giovinco was in the Italian media, before I heard anything here.

nick.mastro
04-20-2015, 09:50 PM
It better NOT be Gattusso , but getting someone like Trapatoni would strengthen our defence immensely

Ultra & Proud
04-20-2015, 09:52 PM
Cheer up man. This is MLS 2015. Now with 10% more playoff qualification.

This MLSE team doesn't need to be good. They don't even need to be average. They just need to be slightly below average and then the execs can call this season a success and hit you up with marked up tickets at special "loyalty" rates.

When you need a team to deliver slightly below average performance, MLSE teams are a safe bet.
I think referring to us as slightly below average is a little optimistic.

If MLS 2015 had 60% more playoff qualification then we'd be gold. Maybe. Vanney's previous run of form doesn't even suggest that would be doable. After all, Chivas is gone and the expansion teams have good managers.

Auzzy
04-20-2015, 10:02 PM
From the Sporting KC wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Kansas_City):

Vermes took over late in 2009, failed to make the playoffs in 2010, and was 1-9 after 10 road games due to stadium construction. What does that remind you of?

New England lost something like eight games in a row last year. TFC fired Winter when that happened. New England went to the MLS Cup Final.

TFC have got to stop firing managers. Nothing. Else. Matters. It does not matter about any kind "pedigree" tied to nationality. We aren't fixing TFC with xenophobia. It does not matter what said manager did in the EPL. It does not matter what mistakes were made in firing Winter, Mariner, Nelson, or anyone else. It won't work.

I agree!




Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.

What do you think, can TFC make it to 1,000 different players signed by the 10th year anniversary? Wouldn't that be an amazing achievement? What are we at now?



Who exactly is supposedly making this decision?

The machinations behind this really have me worried. What's the role of Bez? Of Fraser? Of Leiweke? (As he's on his way out, he shouldn't be anywhere near these issues.) The board shouldn't be involved either, other than to say yes or no. How about MLS' role? If the board asks the league nicely, will they gift us another awesome re-tread project? The last few worked out so well. (Mo. Preki. Mariner. Payne.)

EDIT And of course Bradley, Gio, and Gio's agent shouldn't be involved either...

BTW, this "Management Team" page on Toronto FC's website is pretty funny: http://www.torontofc.ca/club/management-team

Alonso
04-20-2015, 10:07 PM
Seems far fetched but man, oh man, wouldn't it be maximum TFC to pull the lever before a home game has even occurred.



I'm so fed up with it.

Why can't they pick a management team and stick with it?

This is worse than the groundhog day movie.

MartinUtd
04-20-2015, 10:11 PM
This is all so fascinating. If there is going to be a coaching change, I hope it happens ASAP otherwise this is a very destructive distraction. I'm not sold on Vanney and I hate to continue the revolving door policy, but with the complete lack of urgency we've witnessed I can't help but think there are some leadership issues at play. It can't all be down to Caldwell not being there to marshal the back line.

Alonso
04-20-2015, 10:25 PM
OH God. Firing the coach during the season AGAIN and before our first home game? If they do this, it will show that the higher ups at TFC haven't learned anything even after making the same mistake 8 times. They should have have either let Vanney go after last season or AFTER this season. Mid season coaching changes are the fucking worst.



We are officially in the twilight zone.

Hamilton_Red
04-20-2015, 10:59 PM
It better not be di Canio ... the others would do. Though Trap must be a about 80? I'd say if you can entice a world class coach then pull the trigger. That's not TFC's way though... They would start a search and have an interim or a player/coach in Bradley. We should have had a top class coach lined up before firing Nelsen.

kodiakTFC
04-21-2015, 03:46 AM
At this point you really have to question the sanity of any coach who would consider the potential of coming here.

Waggy
04-21-2015, 04:42 AM
The wheels on the bus go round and round. Round and round. Round and round. The wheels on the bus go round and round. Round and round. Round and round.

Actually I should go more accurate

This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started singing it not knowing what it was, they now continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started singing it not knowing what it was, they now continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started singing it not knowing what it was, they now continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started singing it not knowing what it was, they now continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started singing it not knowing what it was, they now continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started singing it not knowing what it was, they now continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends. Yes it goes on and on my friends.

#tfc

trane
04-21-2015, 05:16 AM
It better not be di Canio ... the others would do. Though Trap must be a about 80? I'd say if you can entice a world class coach then pull the trigger. That's not TFC's way though... They would start a search and have an interim or a player/coach in Bradley. We should have had a top class coach lined up before firing Nelsen.

This is the problem. It is not like some are saying that we have fired coaches in the middle of the season, when a coach is clearly not cutting it you have too, but it is that they never seem to have a proper replacement lined up and they just hire the next available dude, or when they take their time ( like Winter) it is an experiment.

Ultra & Proud
04-21-2015, 06:43 AM
Looking back now at our revolving door I can't really fault the team for the firings minus the Cummins thing and maybe Nelsen. Problem is they always hire the wrong guy. When you hire a boob then you'd be an idiot to stick to him just for sticking with someone's sake. That being said there is no indication that we'll hire the right guy this time either.

Jack
04-21-2015, 09:26 AM
Man...we're singing the front-loaded road schedule blues.

Milanista
04-21-2015, 09:32 AM
Parma on sale for 20 million. MLSE were kicking the tires, if they buy Parma would be sweet to have a working relationship with TFC. We could benefit from some nice talent coming back to TFC

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 09:40 AM
This is apropos of nothing. More just an interesting data point that I found this on a Philly forum where they are saying a lot of similar things about Curtain that we are saying about Vanney.


Jay Heaps was 9-17-8 in his first season as a coach. Jesse Marsch was 12-17-7 is his first season. Carl Robinson is the only one of the three you mentioned that had a winning first full season at 12-8-14 and he did it by stacking up a lot of ties. People praise what Vermes has done in KC but he was 3-7-2 in his first part season and 11-13-6 in his first full season. Ben Olsen was 3-8-1 in his first part season and 9-12-13 in his first full season. Kinnear was 9-10-11 in his first full season. Managers generally don't win in their first season in MLS.

Villa TFC
04-21-2015, 09:44 AM
Does Leiweke even care anymore or is he spending his days down at the local LCBO hand-selecting empty cardboard boxes for the move home? And if he does care, does anyone at MLSE care to listen to his opinion? The problem on the field is Vanney and the problem with Vanney is Bez. Whether you liked Nelsen or not, to sack a coach when the team is in a playoff spot with ten matches remaining and replace him with yet another coach who'd never been a head coach before smacked of ignorance and arrogance, and that's down to Bez. I was adamant then, I remain adamant now. This isn't hindsight. There are rumours that something happened and Nelsen's position had become untenable, if so then it's still no excuse to have replaced him with an academy coach with zero head coaching experience. To have then retained that coach for this season despite a very poor show last year - and all when we have a budget to hire an experienced coach - is simply inexplicable, and all of that is on Bez.

I know we've had some serious injuries and absences in our defence, but that doesn't excuse the fact that our defence in every formulation and cast of characters has looked utterly awful this season. Ex-defenders who become coaches usually at least know how to organise a defence, even if it means parking the bus. The attack may be poor (or non-existent), but the defence is usually half-decent. The fact that experienced ex-USMNT defender Vanney can't even figure out where to play Hagglund and Morrow suggests to me that he is incapable of ever being a good head coach. Maybe he's a decent assistant coach or academy coach, but I don't want him anywhere near my head coach position regardless of absences, injuries, suspensions, red cards or long stretches of away games.

As others have said, the bright spots of attacking football this season have almost all been down to moments of individual brilliance not to Vanney's tactics. With Bradley in midfield, Giovinco and Altidore in attack, we should expect no less even if Bob McCown was coaching and trying to make us lose! Vanney deserves no credit for any offensive highlights this season, in fact, they've come despite his presence. Yes, we looked decent against Vancouver but Vancouver were utterly horrid that night and imagine where we would be without Giovinco?

For better or for worse, I was one of the very few (the only one?) who was opposed to Winter being fired after that awful, awful start to the season! It was not that I had blind faith in him or his abilities (far from it), but because I have always wanted coaches to be given a fair chance and I felt Winter had a plan. In other words, I don't scream for their heads after five minutes even when things are awful however, I want Vanney gone and I want Bez out as GM. I don't care that we're less than a handful of matches into the season. I don't care that we haven't played at home, that we've had bad reffing, suspensions, injuries and international absences...I want Vanney out. I know that all coaches have to start somewhere. The greatest coaches in the history of the game were rookies once but I just don't see that potential in Vanney with the poor tactics, poor formations and basic errors he has made so far. I would much rather bring in an experienced coach now while the season's young, give them the benefit of analyzing the team and adding to it in the next transfer window and then move us forward. It's still early enough for a decent coach to give us a great season, but I don't believe for an instant that Vanney is capable of that.

Carts
04-21-2015, 09:45 AM
Man...we're singing the front-loaded road schedule blues.

So true!

And just think, 2-straight wins and this trip goes from complete disaster to massive success...

Fort York Redcoat
04-21-2015, 10:11 AM
Does Leiweke even care anymore or is he spending his days down at the local LCBO hand-selecting empty cardboard boxes for the move home? And if he does care, does anyone at MLSE care to listen to his opinion? The problem on the field is Vanney and the problem with Vanney is Bez. Whether you liked Nelsen or not, to sack a coach when the team is in a playoff spot with ten matches remaining and replace him with yet another coach who'd never been a head coach before smacked of ignorance and arrogance, and that's down to Bez. I was adamant then, I remain adamant now. This isn't hindsight. There are rumours that something happened and Nelsen's position had become untenable, if so then it's still no excuse to have replaced him with an academy coach with zero head coaching experience. To have then retained that coach for this season despite a very poor show last year - and all when we have a budget to hire an experienced coach - is simply inexplicable, and all of that is on Bez.

I know we've had some serious injuries and absences in our defence, but that doesn't excuse the fact that our defence in every formulation and cast of characters has looked utterly awful this season. Ex-defenders who become coaches usually at least know how to organise a defence, even if it means parking the bus. The attack may be poor (or non-existent), but the defence is usually half-decent. The fact that experienced ex-USMNT defender Vanney can't even figure out where to play Hagglund and Morrow suggests to me that he is incapable of ever being a good head coach. Maybe he's a decent assistant coach or academy coach, but I don't want him anywhere near my head coach position regardless of absences, injuries, suspensions, red cards or long stretches of away games.

As others have said, the bright spots of attacking football this season have almost all been down to moments of individual brilliance not to Vanney's tactics. With Bradley in midfield, Giovinco and Altidore in attack, we should expect no less even if Bob McCown was coaching and trying to make us lose! Vanney deserves no credit for any offensive highlights this season, in fact, they've come despite his presence. Yes, we looked decent against Vancouver but Vancouver were utterly horrid that night and imagine where we would be without Giovinco?

For better or for worse, I was one of the very few (the only one?) who was opposed to Winter being fired after that awful, awful start to the season! It was not that I had blind faith in him or his abilities (far from it), but because I have always wanted coaches to be given a fair chance and I felt Winter had a plan. In other words, I don't scream for their heads after five minutes even when things are awful however, I want Vanney gone and I want Bez out as GM. I don't care that we're less than a handful of matches into the season. I don't care that we haven't played at home, that we've had bad reffing, suspensions, injuries and international absences...I want Vanney out. I know that all coaches have to start somewhere. The greatest coaches in the history of the game were rookies once but I just don't see that potential in Vanney with the poor tactics, poor formations and basic errors he has made so far. I would much rather bring in an experienced coach now while the season's young, give them the benefit of analyzing the team and adding to it in the next transfer window and then move us forward. It's still early enough for a decent coach to give us a great season, but I don't believe for an instant that Vanney is capable of that.


This rant is all over the place.

Lieweke needs to be more hands on or is he off the hook because MLSE isn't listening?

Vanney doesn't deserve time but Winter deserved the rest of the season? I understand staying the course but their were less bright spots during the 1-10 stretch than what we've seen already this season.

You're entitled to give up on this coach. It's rumoured that he has little enough time left to prove himself to the board but your hyperbole doesn't lend to your cause.

Cardboard boxes at the LCBO? Bob McCown? Yeesh.

Red4ever
04-21-2015, 10:18 AM
Does Leiweke even care anymore or is he spending his days down at the local LCBO hand-selecting empty cardboard boxes for the move home? And if he does care, does anyone at MLSE care to listen to his opinion? The problem on the field is Vanney and the problem with Vanney is Bez. Whether you liked Nelsen or not, to sack a coach when the team is in a playoff spot with ten matches remaining and replace him with yet another coach who'd never been a head coach before smacked of ignorance and arrogance, and that's down to Bez. I was adamant then, I remain adamant now. This isn't hindsight. There are rumours that something happened and Nelsen's position had become untenable, if so then it's still no excuse to have replaced him with an academy coach with zero head coaching experience. To have then retained that coach for this season despite a very poor show last year - and all when we have a budget to hire an experienced coach - is simply inexplicable, and all of that is on Bez.

I know we've had some serious injuries and absences in our defence, but that doesn't excuse the fact that our defence in every formulation and cast of characters has looked utterly awful this season. Ex-defenders who become coaches usually at least know how to organise a defence, even if it means parking the bus. The attack may be poor (or non-existent), but the defence is usually half-decent. The fact that experienced ex-USMNT defender Vanney can't even figure out where to play Hagglund and Morrow suggests to me that he is incapable of ever being a good head coach. Maybe he's a decent assistant coach or academy coach, but I don't want him anywhere near my head coach position regardless of absences, injuries, suspensions, red cards or long stretches of away games.

As others have said, the bright spots of attacking football this season have almost all been down to moments of individual brilliance not to Vanney's tactics. With Bradley in midfield, Giovinco and Altidore in attack, we should expect no less even if Bob McCown was coaching and trying to make us lose! Vanney deserves no credit for any offensive highlights this season, in fact, they've come despite his presence. Yes, we looked decent against Vancouver but Vancouver were utterly horrid that night and imagine where we would be without Giovinco?

For better or for worse, I was one of the very few (the only one?) who was opposed to Winter being fired after that awful, awful start to the season! It was not that I had blind faith in him or his abilities (far from it), but because I have always wanted coaches to be given a fair chance and I felt Winter had a plan. In other words, I don't scream for their heads after five minutes even when things are awful however, I want Vanney gone and I want Bez out as GM. I don't care that we're less than a handful of matches into the season. I don't care that we haven't played at home, that we've had bad reffing, suspensions, injuries and international absences...I want Vanney out. I know that all coaches have to start somewhere. The greatest coaches in the history of the game were rookies once but I just don't see that potential in Vanney with the poor tactics, poor formations and basic errors he has made so far. I would much rather bring in an experienced coach now while the season's young, give them the benefit of analyzing the team and adding to it in the next transfer window and then move us forward. It's still early enough for a decent coach to give us a great season, but I don't believe for an instant that Vanney is capable of that.

I dunno, I think this is pretty spot on for me.

Bez and Vanney are clearly both over their heads and if the board still had any sense it wouldn't have handcuffed TL.

Well said.

SuperTCP
04-21-2015, 10:34 AM
I always felt firing Nelsen and hiring Vanney was a rushed decision and poorly planned. In my eyes, Vanney has always been an interm coach, keeping the coaching seat warm, until TFC could find a real coach with experience. I would love to see him replaced with an MLS Experienced coached (i.e. Mike Petke) , but at this point any experienced coach that can help the team work hard, gel, and strengthen our defense would be an asset.

Derko
04-21-2015, 10:38 AM
2015 is already a write off.
why even go to any home games this year (other than see the stadium may 10). what a fucking waste of $2000

love your optimism, Eyore comes to mind!!

Villa TFC
04-21-2015, 10:39 AM
This rant is all over the place.

Lieweke needs to be more hands on or is he off the hook because MLSE isn't listening?

Vanney doesn't deserve time but Winter deserved the rest of the season? I understand staying the course but their were less bright spots during the 1-10 stretch than what we've seen already this season.

You're entitled to give up on this coach. It's rumoured that he has little enough time left to prove himself to the board but your hyperbole doesn't lend to your cause.

Cardboard boxes at the LCBO? Bob McCown? Yeesh.

My Winter point was not that Winter deserved more time, it was to illustrate that I am not one of those people who knee-jerk calls for coaches to be sacked when the season starts poorly. Winter deserved the sack. Any coach with a record like that deserved the sack. My point was that I was willing to extend the rope a little longer for him...in stark contrast to how I currently feel about Vanney.

My Leiweke point is that we don't even know how involved he is anymore. I am not saying he needs to be more hands on or that he's off the hook because MLSE aren't listening, I'm just saying that with such a short period left in his tenure here, do we even know how involved he is?

Cardboard boxes at the LCBO and McCown is called humour. Something that has got me through 8 seasons as a supporter but which I am finding it very hard to hide behind right now.

ManUtd4ever
04-21-2015, 10:39 AM
There is no question that the team has underachieved, but it still might be premature to make a coaching change given the schedule and the key injuries to our back line over the last few games. I'm inclined to give Vanney another few games before making a final decision.

Couchy81
04-21-2015, 10:44 AM
Only way this makes sense to me is if this is something Bradley (or Bradley + Giovinco) is doing, because they are filling the leadership vacuum.

It seems to me that Leiweke would not be keen on this, it makes his stalwart support of Bez look pretty silly.


Just like his stalwart support of Dave Nonis?

Phil
04-21-2015, 10:53 AM
man, this is a lot of speculation.

I think the truth is going to be a let down for most.

Redcoe15
04-21-2015, 10:54 AM
In over his head or not (and I'll go with the former), firing Vanney at this point in the early season and replacing him with someone from Italy who knows nothing about how MLS works is a recipe for disaster, both on the pitch and in terms of PR.

If and when Vanney does get the can tied to his tail (and if he is fired, it'll happen after Lieweke tells Toronto "sayonara suckers") I'll predict that Bradley's dad Bob will take over the coaching duties. And if it is, it'll tell us exactly who is running TFC.

reggie
04-21-2015, 10:59 AM
man, this is a lot of speculation.

I think the truth is going to be a let down for most.

would ther be a little birdie in yr ear...:D

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 11:08 AM
man, this is a lot of speculation.

I think the truth is going to be a let down for most.

If it's a choice between Gattuso and Vanney, i'm picking Vanney all the way.

Ultra & Proud
04-21-2015, 11:10 AM
If it's a choice between Gattuso and Vanney, i'm picking Vanney all the way.
Me too. 100%. However if Petke was on the table...

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 11:15 AM
Me too. 100%. However if Petke was on the table...

Recently heard some rumors that he was in Henrys pocket and Henry was pulling the strings while he was there. I'm not sure if i'm 100% on him being a good option.

Bez would have to go as well if Petke was to come in. The reasons Curits got rid of him wouldn't make him a match with Bez or most of the FO and Academy staff.

Ultra & Proud
04-21-2015, 11:17 AM
Recently heard some rumors that he was in Henrys pocket and Henry was pulling the strings while he was there. I'm not sure if i'm 100% on him being a good option.

Bez would have to go as well if Petke was to come in. The reasons Curits got rid of him wouldn't make him a match with Bez or most of the FO and Academy staff.
I am pretty okay with Bez going. Other than that I don't know of any decent MLS experienced managers that we could get anytime soon. MLS 1.0 retreads maybe but anyone good, no.

Initial B
04-21-2015, 11:19 AM
You know, I don't want Vanney or Bez gone yet. What I want is a full-time president with a vision of how the team should play. One that would survive any sackings of GMs or Managers and provide the stability through those times. Then leave it to him to assess Bez and Vanney and see where things go from there.

portu
04-21-2015, 11:21 AM
Recently heard some rumors that he was in Henrys pocket and Henry was pulling the strings while he was there. I'm not sure if i'm 100% on him being a good option.

Bez would have to go as well if Petke was to come in. The reasons Curits got rid of him wouldn't make him a match with Bez or most of the FO and Academy staff.
No way he was in Henry's pocket I remember Petke benching Henry for an outburst at training in either year 1 or 2 of his tenure

trane
04-21-2015, 11:28 AM
man, this is a lot of speculation.

I think the truth is going to be a let down for most.

When it comes to coaching it has always been. They always talk a good game but their hires are always a little puzzling. I would like to see that changed.

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 11:35 AM
I am pretty okay with Bez going. Other than that I don't know of any decent MLS experienced managers that we could get anytime soon. MLS 1.0 retreads maybe but anyone good, no.

Wilmer Cabrera did very well at Chivas last year in difficult circumstances. I'd suspect he'd do well at a different MLS club.

Oldtimer
04-21-2015, 11:36 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/590549435186196480/t8cosiWj_bigger.jpg Kurtis LarsonVerified account ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN)

Absolutely no truth to any rumour about Vanney getting sacked should Reds lose in Orlando. Not happening as of now.





https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/587820746317127680/B8HvQ19H_bigger.jpg David Amoyal ‏@DavidAmoyal (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal) 17h17 hours ago (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590296787761688577)
@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) @PhillTSoares (https://twitter.com/PhillTSoares) everyone has to choose to trust their sources or not, I'll admit if I'm wrong




Maybe we're bringing in Milan's ticket sales manager?

Kurtis Larson was right about Gilberto, he's a source that I trust.

jloome
04-21-2015, 11:44 AM
No way he was in Henry's pocket I remember Petke benching Henry for an outburst at training in either year 1 or 2 of his tenure

Henry basically intimated that the team wasn't good enough offensively under Petke; it's why Petke was fired when Henry left. Petke was a bunker-in coach who relied on the counter and on Henry assisting almost half their goals. I'm not convinced he's the guy without someone to carry the team, and Henry did that on a level even Giovinco isn't going to repeat.

But yeah, PEtke is his own man.

jloome
04-21-2015, 11:46 AM
Recently heard some rumors that he was in Henrys pocket and Henry was pulling the strings while he was there. I'm not sure if i'm 100% on him being a good option.

Bez would have to go as well if Petke was to come in. The reasons Curits got rid of him wouldn't make him a match with Bez or most of the FO and Academy staff.

Quite the opposite; Henry didn't like Petke as a coach. There was a piece on Soccer by Ives the other day talking about the Red Bulls undefeated start, and it mentioned that Henry felt they won in spite of playing poorly and not generating offence

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 11:57 AM
Quite the opposite; Henry didn't like Petke as a coach. There was a piece on Soccer by Ives the other day talking about the Red Bulls undefeated start, and it mentioned that Henry felt they won in spite of playing poorly and not generating offence

Hey, im just passing on what i've heard.

And I definitely wouldn't say that he was fired due to offensive issues. Read this from Ali Curtis


“The role of the traditional coach is not just changing—it’s changed,” Curtis said. “You no longer have a traditional coach who can focus primarily on the first team and only has to understand how to organize a training session and the Xs and Os. If that’s the route you’re taking three or four years from now, you’re going to be left behind. This club needed a head coach who not only could understand the direction the club needed to take, [but] be involved in all those areas, from youth development to performance and data analysis to communication—processing the style of play that we wanted to play. We needed a head coach that just wasn’t just involved and integrated, but that had that in his DNA.”

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/04/13/new-york-red-bulls-ali-curtis-mike-petke-jesse-marsch-mls

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 11:58 AM
BOOM

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfc-toronto-fc-mls-major-league-soccer-mlse-club-president-ac-milan-umberto-gandini/

A major shakeup within the Toronto FC hierarchy is brewing.
A well-placed source within Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment told Sportsnet that the organization is actively looking to hire a club president that would oversee all soccer operations for TFC. The same source said MLSE has courted and spoken to Italian executive Umberto Gandini about the position. Gandini is a club director at Serie A team AC Milan.

OgtheDim
04-21-2015, 12:01 PM
The interview process of potential candidates is ongoing according to the MLSE source, who said the search for a club president does not mean general manager Tim Bezbatchenko’s or coach Greg Vanney’s jobs are in jeopardy in any way.



If a new team president is brought aboard it would represent a major change in TFC’s management structure. Bezbatchenko would work under the president, much like Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos reports to Paul Beeston, president of Toronto’s Major League Baseball club.

From that article

OfficeGuy
04-21-2015, 12:07 PM
This.

If we really pull the plug this early, and bring in a couple of dudes completely new to MLS, we might as well kiss 2015 and 2016 goodbye.


This has been the problem all along - knee jerk reactions

Detroit_TFC
04-21-2015, 12:16 PM
Hiring Gandini would be massive for TFC (and by extension, MLS), current issues at Milan notwithstanding. The AC Milan website lists him as "Sports Organizational Manager" so not a board director but a senior executive.

Ultra & Proud
04-21-2015, 12:18 PM
BOOM

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfc-toronto-fc-mls-major-league-soccer-mlse-club-president-ac-milan-umberto-gandini/

A major shakeup within the Toronto FC hierarchy is brewing.
A well-placed source within Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment told Sportsnet that the organization is actively looking to hire a club president that would oversee all soccer operations for TFC. The same source said MLSE has courted and spoken to Italian executive Umberto Gandini about the position. Gandini is a club director at Serie A team AC Milan.
Well this is a good rumor. With this though I would find it hard to see Bez & Vanney staying long term.

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 12:19 PM
Hiring Gandini would be massive for TFC (and by extension, MLS), current issues at Milan notwithstanding. The AC Milan website lists him as "Sports Organizational Manager" so not a board director but a senior executive.

How familiar he is with MLS is the question.

A quick (probably pointless) look through his twitter page shows him interacting with Lalas and Wahl. Follows a lot of MLS/NASL accounts.

Given Milans potential sale, my gut says he is looking at North America for work.

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 12:22 PM
Well this is a good rumor. With this though I would find it hard to see Bez & Vanney staying long term.

They'll get a chance under him i'd say. Bez probably gets a while as he'll manage the cap etc. Vanney, who knows.

notthesun
04-21-2015, 12:22 PM
Di Marzio and his staff do not make things up out of the blue, and with this report there is just no way we are not also actively searching for a new coach.

This club should have hired a president day 1, so I'm glad we're looking. Hiring a foreign president makes me a little nervous though. How many foreign presidents/directors of soccer operations/etc. are there in MLS currently?

Beach_Red
04-21-2015, 12:23 PM
If a new team president is brought aboard it would represent a major change in TFC’s management structure. Bezbatchenko would work under the president, much like Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos reports to Paul Beeston, president of Toronto’s Major League Baseball club.

From that article

This what I have wanted since day one.

Ultra & Proud
04-21-2015, 12:25 PM
This club should have hired a president day 1, so I'm glad we're looking. Hiring a foreign president makes me a little nervous though. How many foreign presidents/directors of soccer operations/etc. are there in MLS currently?
Probably none but I tend to not compare TFC to any team in MLS because normal laws and rules do not apply. We are the sole inhabitants of bizzaro MLS and since nothing ever worked here, new grounds are our only option.

Areathrasher
04-21-2015, 12:26 PM
Di Marzio and his staff do not make things up out of the blue, and with this report there is just no way we are not also actively searching for a new coach.

This club should have hired a president day 1, so I'm glad we're looking. Hiring a foreign president makes me a little nervous though. How many foreign presidents/directors of soccer operations/etc. are there in MLS currently?

Not currently an active team but Atlanta hired a guy from Spurs to be their president.

Orlando's front office is full of Englishmen IIRC too

Super
04-21-2015, 12:26 PM
Hiring Gandini would spell the end of Vanney. Look at it this way: NO top league team in ANY country in Europe would hire Vanney. Why? Lack of experience. No way Gandini would allow a rookie to fuck with his career either - because Gandini would be judged on performances as much as anyone within the organization. Personally I would fire Vanney on day one of my arrival and bring in someone with a history of creating results. 3 wins in 16 games in a league with parity where we spend more than anyone else = just not good enough.

Milanista
04-21-2015, 12:26 PM
Milan might be soon sold to billionaires from Asia...one guy wants to gut the organization and bring in Maldini, so i guess if they gut it tons of guys would be out of work. This could be legit and if he has hook ups and brings some young italian talent with him....sign me up! Tons of great players that arent good enough for top serie a clubs, but would kill it in mls


Hiring Gandini would be massive for TFC (and by extension, MLS), current issues at Milan notwithstanding. The AC Milan website lists him as "Sports Organizational Manager" so not a board director but a senior executive.

Detroit_TFC
04-21-2015, 12:27 PM
How familiar he is with MLS is the question.

A quick (probably pointless) look through his twitter page shows him interacting with Lalas and Wahl. Follows a lot of MLS/NASL accounts.

Given Milans potential sale, my gut says he is looking at North America for work.

Lack of direct MLS experience could be good or bad, depending on what role that person will play. I'd guess that team president wouldn't necessary be involved in day to day transaction stuff, still need a Bez or someone like him for that stuff, no matter who comes in.

ronzilla
04-21-2015, 12:29 PM
If Gandini is hired, Vanney would be gone in a heart beat.

Super
04-21-2015, 12:30 PM
Lack of direct MLS experience could be good or bad, depending on what role that person will play. I'd guess that team president wouldn't necessary be involved in day to day transaction stuff, still need a Bez or someone like him for that stuff, no matter who comes in.

I'd take head coaching experience over MLS player experience any day of the week. Same goes for management at the upper levels. Bez is going to be the guy for us who understands the league and translates that for the President and head coach. MAIN thing for our head coach is to be extremely strong with tactics - and understanding how to motivate the players so they don't continue to fuck up the way they have been since Vanney took over. 1 clean sheet. I mean, enough already.

notthesun
04-21-2015, 12:31 PM
Bringing in Gandini or a like character would certainly help us attract some experienced managers (not that I think we couldn't right now anyways).

Vanney would be pretty much done, I have to agree. If we bring in an Italian coach and Italian director I'm worried Bezbatchenko would be a lame duck in that structure. But with those pieces it's necessary our GM is an MLS guy through and through... might be best at that point to start fresh with a new GM.

Red4ever
04-21-2015, 12:33 PM
The idea of bringing in someone over Bez tells me that Bez wasn't the man making things happen in the off season. It makes me think that TL made most of the moves and let Bez take it in from one yard out.

Richard
04-21-2015, 12:33 PM
Hiring Gandini would spell the end of Vanney. Look at it this way: NO top league team in ANY country in Europe would hire Vanney. Why? Lack of experience. No way Gandini would allow a rookie to fuck with his career either - because Gandini would be judged on performances as much as anyone within the organization. Personally I would fire Vanney on day one of my arrival and bring in someone with a history of creating results. 3 wins in 16 games in a league with parity where we spend more than anyone else = just not good enough.

Agreed. Away games or not the best teams win a decent amount away from home. Spending as much as we have and not getting results isnt good enough.

portu
04-21-2015, 12:34 PM
Umberto Gandini is following us on twitter along with a variety of MLS related accounts

ronzilla
04-21-2015, 12:34 PM
Hiring Gandini would spell the end of Vanney. Look at it this way: NO top league team in ANY country in Europe would hire Vanney. Why? Lack of experience. No way Gandini would allow a rookie to fuck with his career either - because Gandini would be judged on performances as much as anyone within the organization. Personally I would fire Vanney on day one of my arrival and bring in someone with a history of creating results. 3 wins in 16 games in a league with parity where we spend more than anyone else = just not good enough.

This.

Ultra & Proud
04-21-2015, 12:35 PM
I'd take head coaching experience over MLS player experience any day of the week. Same goes for management at the upper levels. Bez is going to be the guy for us who understands the league and translates that for the President and head coach. MAIN thing for our head coach is to be extremely strong with tactics - and understanding how to motivate the players so they don't continue to fuck up the way they have been since Vanney took over. 1 clean sheet. I mean, enough already.
That should come with an few *** because it was a run down Chivas we got it against.

Red4ever
04-21-2015, 12:35 PM
Also. Ryan Nelsen is having a laugh now.

Detroit_TFC
04-21-2015, 12:35 PM
IMO making coaching changes after a new team president comes in is very different than making a coaching change because things aren't going well at the moment. A new top guy coming in should have that freedom.

Milanista
04-21-2015, 12:36 PM
Now bring in 9 more Giovinco's and will win lol

Man TFC are being pumped with money, MLSE can be accused of many things but being cheap for TFC isn't one

OgtheDim
04-21-2015, 12:37 PM
If Gandini is hired, Vanney would be gone in a heart beat.

Doubtful.

Do not assume how you think is how management thinks. He'd actually have the season to watch, and then clean house/go in a different direction at the end of the season, depending upon what he wanted to do.

Richard
04-21-2015, 12:38 PM
Doubtful.

Do not assume how you think is how management thinks. He'd actually have the season to watch, and then clean house/go in a different direction at the end of the season, depending upon what he wanted to do.

Why waste the time and watch this train wreck? If he's got contacts willing to come here with experience, then lets start with a clean slate day one.

Detroit_TFC
04-21-2015, 12:39 PM
A new guy would get a feel for things first, so we're probably still on schedule for our annual late August firing.

OgtheDim
04-21-2015, 12:40 PM
Why waste the time and watch this train wreck? If he's got contacts willing to come here with experience, then let start with a clean slate day one.

Cause a clean slate means not competing until 2017. That and this opinion of Vanney being incompetent and this being a "train wreck" is not universally accepted. Far from it. The only people suggesting it is are some TFC supporters. And all journos have indicated the issue is a crisis in the defence, not in coaching or in player personnel. Even Jacks article didn't go as far as to call this a "train wreck".

Nor is the last few weeks why a president would be being brought in.


This move is most likely separate from results over the last few weeks - we have heard rumblings about this sort of move over the last few months, with nothing specific.


Vanney is here until at least the first home game is done. If we lose the next 3, then he's in trouble.


And don't get me started on another effin experiment with contacts who have no MLS experience.

ronzilla
04-21-2015, 12:45 PM
Exactly.


Why waste the time and watch this train wreck? If he's got contacts willing to come here with experience, then lets start with a clean slate day one.

Milanista
04-21-2015, 12:47 PM
maybe he will bring us Seedorf to manage lmao

Detroit_TFC
04-21-2015, 12:58 PM
David Amoyal ‏@DavidAmoyal (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590574249838010368)Boston, MA (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A67b98f17fdcf20be)
Expect big changes at Toronto FC, Giovinco will have plenty of people to speak Italiano with in near future

notthesun
04-21-2015, 01:04 PM
Turns out Amoyal reported this yesterday as well, got a bit lost since he tweeted if after his claim that TFC was looking for a manager.

https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590232152085770240

"A former Milan director could also take over operations at Toronto FC according to a trusted source with knowledge of situation."

I think Vanney's goose is cooked.

Phil
04-21-2015, 01:05 PM
Also. Ryan Nelsen is having a laugh now.

So is Paul Mariner
So is Aron Winter
So is Mo

The list is long, too long.

Ultra & Proud
04-21-2015, 01:05 PM
Since we are hearing this now I would assume that this is a lot farther along than some might think.

Phil
04-21-2015, 01:09 PM
Since we are hearing this now I would assume that this is a lot farther along than some might think.

That is very unclear. This news may derail it if its too early.

Milanista
04-21-2015, 01:09 PM
Hells yeah! This would be great for MLS, more exposure and potential of more players from europe playing here...


David Amoyal ‏@DavidAmoyal (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal)2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DavidAmoyal/status/590574249838010368)Boston, MA (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A67b98f17fdcf20be)
Expect big changes at Toronto FC, Giovinco will have plenty of people to speak Italiano with in near future

A Stick
04-21-2015, 01:11 PM
Vanney is probably on the way out right now. ***MOD EDIT***. I think another factor entering into this change is the amount of season tickets they sold in Woodbrigde and Vaughan. MLSE has tapped into a new market.

OgtheDim
04-21-2015, 01:15 PM
Hells yeah! This would be great for MLS, more exposure and potential of more players from europe playing here...

Aaa...the Italian Experiment, except done with more money and not with old dudes.

The only thing that has me thinking this might work is how quickely Seba seems to have adapted to the game here. I still don't think anybody without MLS experience has any clue what this league is like, so I'm less interested in an Italian coach/GM. Vanney needs a bit more time to be proven to be good enough or not. And Bez has done little wrong personnel wise (he has bet on offence and midfield and on Perquis and Caldwell)

Players? If it makes us better this season and we make the playoffs without destroying us for the future, sure.

RealG-TFC
04-21-2015, 01:17 PM
Cause a clean slate means not competing until 2017. That and this opinion of Vanney being incompetent and this being a "train wreck" is not universally accepted. Far from it. The only people suggesting it is are some TFC supporters. And all journos have indicated the issue is a crisis in the defence, not in coaching or in player personnel. Even Jacks article didn't go as far as to call this a "train wreck".


I think if anything this not only refutes the notion of not being competitive until 2017 but it also makes firing Vanney easier. With the tools we have at our disposal, it shouldn't be difficult for a relatively experianced coach that may be a stranger to mls to win, or at the very least fix our defensive issues.

OgtheDim
04-21-2015, 01:18 PM
Vanney is probably on the way out right now. His kids ....

Stop

Right

There

Not cool. :nono:

Milanista
04-21-2015, 01:18 PM
Serie a and serie b has tons of good players that get over looked, Giovinco is good but there are tons of players like him that play in lower teams...If the President can come in, find these players and Bez finds a way to fit it in the salary cap were golden.

Vanney is in way over his head, with all this money spent a guy like Vanney makes literally zero sense


Aaa...the Italian Experiment, except done with more money and not with old dudes.

The only thing that has me thinking this might work is how quickely Seba seems to have adapted to the game here. I still don't think anybody without MLS experience has any clue what this league is like, so I'm less interested in an Italian coach/GM. Vanney needs a bit more time to be proven to be good enough or not. And Bez has done little wrong personnel wise (he has bet on offence and midfield and on Perquis and Caldwell)

Players? If it makes us better this season and we make the playoffs without destroying us for the future, sure.

Oldtimer
04-21-2015, 01:19 PM
I'd like to see a more TFC-focused source like Molinaro before we start taking this rumour seriously.



BOOM

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfc-toronto-fc-mls-major-league-soccer-mlse-club-president-ac-milan-umberto-gandini/

A major shakeup within the Toronto FC hierarchy is brewing.
A well-placed source within Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment told Sportsnet that the organization is actively looking to hire a club president that would oversee all soccer operations for TFC. The same source said MLSE has courted and spoken to Italian executive Umberto Gandini about the position. Gandini is a club director at Serie A team AC Milan.

Told you all to go with someone like Molinaro. :drinking: Instead of someone who publishes half the story and gets everyone here freaking out, he checks things out.

Detroit_TFC
04-21-2015, 01:19 PM
So is Paul Mariner
So is Aron Winter
So is Mo

The list is long, too long.

The CTRL-ALT-DEL fandango.

Fort York Redcoat
04-21-2015, 01:21 PM
Vanney is probably on the way out right now. ***MOD EDIT***. I think another factor entering into this change is the amount of season tickets they sold in Woodbrigde and Vaughan. MLSE has tapped into a new market.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/qs6ev2pm8g9dS/200_s.gif



"new market"

That market that has been dismissive of the league and this team since its inception? That market?

RealG-TFC
04-21-2015, 01:22 PM
Stop

Right

There

Not cool. :nono:

He was just stating a fact, there was absolutely no commentary or opinions on him or his family. Relax.

Red4ever
04-21-2015, 01:22 PM
Weird how they never sold tickets there before...

Red4ever
04-21-2015, 01:23 PM
He was just stating a fact, there was absolutely no commentary or opinions on him or his family. Relax.

I just like that fact that we would stay classy enough never to bring up children of players and coaches. I think it's a decent exercise in restraint.

Jack
04-21-2015, 01:30 PM
I've always tried to support him, but Vanney's record is pretty damning.

The mantra of "MLS teams don't win much on the road" is bandied about a lot, but Ryan Nelsen had us playing a very solid road game. Of the 33 points we earned under Nelsen, 16 were away, while 17 were at home. His overall PPG for the season was 1.375, which still doesn't project to a playoffs total over the season, falling agonizingly short at 47. Of course we may have gained the odd point at the expense of teams who finished ahead of us, which would have put us in, but we'll never know. Either way, we were a playoff bubble team under Nelsen. Vanney's points per game pace is dismal at 0.73 overall and just 0.4 on the road since he took the helm.

Nelsen got us 16 points out of 12 road matches he managed last season and that's nothing to shake a stick at. Yes, a lot of them were ugly, luck-filled bunkerfests, but we ground out four road draws in a row during one stretch and a two-win, one draw stretch as well. That's a serious road team in MLS. So out of 12 road matches under Nelsen last season, we went 4-4-4, which isn't half bad in our league.

Of course, the numbers don't tell the whole story about what was going on last season, but the story they do tell is pretty compelling. They say that, under Nelsen, we had a competitive team, grinding out points on the road and playing pretty much the same at home, who were on the cusp of the playoffs. Had we built on that with the offseason acquisitions we got this year, I think we would be in a better place than we are right now. Geez. I'd take 1.33 PPG on the road this season, we'd be sitting at 6 or 7 points.

OgtheDim
04-21-2015, 01:30 PM
Never ever use or report where kids of players or staff are.

They must be shielded from all this stuff as much as possible and allowed to live lives. That's not just basic human decency, and respect of privacy, its actually good safe space practice for all concerned, including other kids at those settings.

Oldtimer
04-21-2015, 01:32 PM
An average MLS side statistically would lose half of their road games, tie one quarter, win one quarter. Obviously TFC isn't even close to that.