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noochie
07-24-2008, 10:41 AM
For all of you number junkies out there, I have been watching league attendance over the first half and have some numbers and thoughts to share with you:

MLS Halfway Attendance Study - Season 2008

Venues:

Chicago Fire: 20000 (Toyota Park)
Chivas USA: 27000 (Home Depot Center)
Colorado Rapids: 18000 (Dicks Sporting Goods Park)
Columbus Crew: 22555 (Columbus Crew Stadium)
DC United: 56454 (RFK Stadium)
FC Dallas: 21193 (Pizza Hut Park)
Houston Dynamo: 32000 (Robertson Stadium)
KC Wizards: 10000 (Community America Ballpark)
Los Angeles Galaxy: 27000 (Home Depot Center)
New England Revolution: 68756 (Gilette Stadium)
New York Red Bulls: 80242 (Giants Stadium)
Real Salt Lake: 45017 (Rice Eccles Stadium)
San Jose Earthquakes: 10300 (Buck Shaw Stadium) 34007 (McAfee Coliseum)
Toronto FC: 20148 (BMO Field)

Rankings in Order of Average Attendance:
This is the straight up goods. Raw reported attendance numbers for the first half of the MLS Season.

1. Los Angeles Galaxy: 25513
2. DC United: 20133
3. Toronto FC: 20113
4. New York Red Bulls: 17679
5. Houston Dynamo: 16736
6. Chicago Fire: 16667
7. New England Revolution: 16494
8. San Jose Earthquakes: 16483
9. Real Salt Lake: 15109
10.Colorado Rapids: 14612
11.Chivas USA: 14286
12.FC Dallas: 13687
13.Columbus Crew: 13240
14.Kansas City Wizards: 9483

League Average: 16445

Rankings in Order of Special Attandance:
For this category a "special" event is listed as anything that may cause an abnormal spike in attendance,
including ticket bundling and LA Galaxy away games. This is not a statisical calculation rather it is to
gain a truer look at supporter followings for regular home games. Where the numbers differ an explanation is
given.

1. Los Angeles Galaxy: 25513
2. Toronto FC: 20113
3. DC United: 18152 *Home game vs. LAG
4. Houston Dynamo: 16736
5. Chicago Fire: 16667
6. Chivas USA: 14286
7. Colorado Rapids: 14026 *Home game vs. LAG
8. New York Red Bulls: 13525 *Home game vs. LAG
9. Real Salt Lake: 13496
10.Columbus Crew: 13240
11.FC Dallas: 12606 *Home game vs. LAG
12.San Jose Earthquakes: 11805 *Home game vs. LAG (At McAfee Coliseum)
13.New England Revolution: 11129 *Bundle with BRA v. VEN Friendly (same day)
14.Kansas City Wizards: 9483

League Average: 15088
Beckham Effect: +1358/game *Of course this number cannot factor in the converted fans who attend non-LAG games it is just interesting.

Rankings in Order of % of Tickets Sold:
* = Non Soccer-Specific-Stadium

1. Toronto FC: 100%
2. Kansas City Wizards*: 95%
3. Los Angeles Galaxy: 94%
4. San Jose Earthquakes*: 90% (Averaged Across both Buck Shaw and McAfee)
5. Chicago Fire: 83%
6. Colorado Rapids: 81%
7. FC Dallas: 65%
8. Columbus Crew: 59%
9. Chivas USA: 52%
10.Houston Dynamo*: 52%
11.DC United*: 36%
12.Real Salt Lake*: 34%
13.New England Revolution*: 24%
14.New York Red Bulls*: 22%

Rankings in Order of Sellouts:
First number is total sellouts, second number in parantheses are home games played.

1. Toronto FC: 9 (9)
2. Los Angeles Galaxy: 7 (10)
3. San Jose Earthquakes: 4 (6)
3. Kansas City Wizards: 4 (7)
5. Chicago Fire: 2 (8)
5. Colorado Rapids: 2 (8)
7. FC Dallas: 1 (9)

noochie
07-24-2008, 10:42 AM
First things first, I didn't post this with the intention of having a free for all on the poorer performing teams in the MLS. It really is intended to spark some discussion around the viability of the league and how things are progressing in the post-Beckham era.
I also wanted to note that I will be looking at adding more categories and analysis in the future for those interested, please let me know what you would like to see. Keep the discussion an intelligent one please.
With that I thought I would share some things I found interesting while doing the study so far, broken down by category:

Raw attendance: This really shows how big this league could be once more stars hit the pitches of North America. It should be noted that with the raw numbers it really shows the potential of MLS where it is today however it does factor in many special events that tend to artifically bloat the numbers. Once more stars come onboard it would be realistic to assume that there is no where to go but up here.

Special Attendance: Take Becks out of the league and essentially this is what we are left with. Of course there is no way statistically to show the impact he has had on new fans to the league for those outside of the LA market (would little Johnny have bough a ticket to KC v DCU on opening day? maybe, maybe not) however it does highlight the trend of the "average" supporter who goes to the park Beckham or no Beckham.
Also interesting here is the bundling that the Revs have attempted (there is another one lined up this second half). It took an otherwise dismal attendance record of 11129(13th) up to 16494(7th). Now whether or not that hooks fans remains to be seen. Based on the early returns it hasn't really done them that much in terms of capturing fan support although the last home game against Toronto saw a positive turn up.

% of Tickets Sold: This category is what it is... how many available tickets were scooped up for the event? One of the most interesting points here is that KC ranks #2 on the list behind only Toronto. Of course they are playing in a 10,000 seater baseball stadium so it is tough to really gauge if this is a positive turn around for the Wiz or status quo based on their time at the home of the Chiefs. What is the real ceiling for ticket sales in KC? Judging by the fact they have only sold out 4 games in 7... this may be it.
Also interesting is the newest team in the league. The second coming of San Jose is doing strong at 90% but one might have thought that would be a bit higher based on their expansion year and the hype surrounding it. If soccer has a future in Silicon valley... they need to pack Buck Shaw until that new park comes along. Of course it is mostly a tougher draw when at the bottom of the table, perhaps the new signings can turn the team and their attendance in the right direction.
The numbers are all rounded up. Toronto FC for example came in at 99.8.

Sellouts: The biggest point of interest here shows that some of the leagues most viable franchises in DCU, Houston, NYRB? need a soccer specific stadium. For some help is on the way and for others, the lights are still out (Couldn't resist) ;)

bee dubya
07-24-2008, 10:47 AM
Thanks, this is interesting to read.
Can you post the seating for each venue beside say the Raw Attendance figures?

Flashman
07-24-2008, 10:57 AM
Good work Noochie,

I would be interested in a comparison of this year-to-date vs. last year (or last year at the mid-point/pre-Beckham)

Dave67
07-24-2008, 11:32 AM
Nice work. I would remove 2,500 tickets from Columbus under the special category as us showing up in large numbers inflated their avg to date by about 250/game.

RealG-TFC
07-24-2008, 11:36 AM
2. Kansas City Wizards*: 95%

That's fantastic! Maybe it isn't a dead club.

Dave67
07-24-2008, 11:39 AM
2. Kansas City Wizards*: 95%

That's fantastic! Maybe it isn't a dead club.


Sort of. The stadium only seats about 10,000. But it does look a complete crap setup so 95% is still a good number.

Sonny Cheeba
07-24-2008, 11:56 AM
the rankings of average attendance should be normalized by dividing by the number of seats in each stadium (or seats available in non-SSS). it's really for the most part comparing stadium sizes for the top few teams.

well i guess the % tickets sold somewhat addresses what i'm saying.

Roogsy
07-24-2008, 12:09 PM
If we had a bigger stadium, we'd be leading the league in attendance.

jaahuuu
07-24-2008, 12:14 PM
I'm a little confused, according to wikipedia BMO seats 20,148 for soccer, but can hold up to 20,500. According to the TFC schedule webpage we have yet to have the same number of people at any home game, ranging from 19,791 to 20,358. Are the numbers on the schedule page actual attendance or paid attendance? What attendance number is used to consider BMO sold out?

Billy the kid
07-24-2008, 12:32 PM
I think cause scalpers end up holding unsold tickets and some don't end up coming cause of weather etc, there is a difference between tickets sold and how many make it through the turnstile. The amount of TFC schedule would have to how many actually come through the gates.

noochie
07-24-2008, 12:57 PM
I should mention that the listed values are all based on advertised available ticket sales for Soccer events. Meaning that if it is a multi-use facility the ticket office can limit available seating. The same way that the rogers centre covers seats to bring down total capacity for baseball events yet increase for the NFL. I have now included those capacities in the 1st post :)

noochie
07-24-2008, 01:08 PM
Nice work. I would remove 2,500 tickets from Columbus under the special category as us showing up in large numbers inflated their avg to date by about 250/game.

You are correct here for sure. Although even with a huge lot of us down there (I am inflating their numbers by 0.01% :)) It wouldn't change their raw or special ranking so I decided to let them have that one ;)

noochie
07-24-2008, 01:11 PM
Good work Noochie,

I would be interested in a comparison of this year-to-date vs. last year (or last year at the mid-point/pre-Beckham)

Yes, I am working on this one because I am curious myself :) Overall MLS came in around 16,100 last year, however most of this was due to a post-ASG heavy schedule for the Galaxy in some big venues like Gilette, RFK and Giants. I hope to have a season to season comparison out by the end of the regular season.

BBBulldog
07-24-2008, 01:18 PM
RFK doesn't hold over 50k, think 46 or 48k not that it matters :D

Toronto_Bhoy
07-24-2008, 01:18 PM
Apparently, the Red Bulls are shite in attendance too…

noochie
07-24-2008, 01:40 PM
RFK doesn't hold over 50k, think 46 or 48k not that it matters :D

By all accounts for Soccer you are using the old Redskins setup which is the number posted. I think it was 46K for the baseball config. Either way... you are kinda screwed, but I see what you are saying. If you have anywhere that shows for sure, let me know... I will update the numbers.

EDIT: Actually BBB, your own website says it: http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/t103/stadium/

ensco
07-24-2008, 01:41 PM
Nice work. Thank you.

KC is identical to Vancouver. Great local soccer scene, there is a hardcore following, they have a crappy stadium situation, and they do SFA for US national TV ratings. hard to know what happens there.

Columbus has to move (maybe to St Louis? they'd have the Blues, the Crew, and LaRooooosa.)

I think Dallas is in some difficulty. Just like Chicago, they built their stadium in the middle of nowhere. I was in Dallas for four days two weeks ago, and there was not one word in the Dallas Morning news about the Hoops (they were between games). Something I didn't expect, was that there was daily coverage of the hockey team, in the off season.

Dave67
07-24-2008, 01:49 PM
You are correct here for sure. Although even with a huge lot of us down there (I am inflating their numbers by 0.01% :)) It wouldn't change their raw or special ranking so I decided to let them have that one ;)


Actually there was a post this week of the real Columbus attendance numbers (actual bums in seats) and our crowd at the opener inflated their avg by 250/game. The number of actual Bums in seats was way way under tickets sold. They are shit either way.... Almost make the Red Bulls look ... .. well ... less shitty :)

BBBulldog
07-24-2008, 01:51 PM
By all accounts for Soccer you are using the old Redskins setup which is the number posted. I think it was 46K for the baseball config. Either way... you are kinda screwed, but I see what you are saying. If you have anywhere that shows for sure, let me know... I will update the numbers.

EDIT: Actually BBB, your own website says it: http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/t103/stadium/

it's not our website, all mls team sites are run from same place in NY :)

we're still under "baseball" configuration, old config had 1/3 of lower bowl behind west goal that was never put back. Those seats are now used to replace ones we break every game (about 15-20) in our quest to make people understand why we need a terrace in enw stadium :D

noochie
07-24-2008, 01:56 PM
it's not our website, all mls team sites are run from same place in NY :)

Ha! You are right, bad wording on my part


we're still under "baseball" configuration, old config had 1/3 of lower bowl behind west goal that was never put back. Those seats are now used to replace ones we break every game (about 15-20) in our quest to make people understand why we need a terrace in enw stadium :D

I guess that may be, I just haven't seen it stated that way anywhere. Even the DC United seating chart on ticketmaster has the whole NFL config listed. I will likely update the above lists to incorporate both configs at some point.

And on that whole new stadium thingy... good luck with that :) More than a few people on here would like to see it happen.

noochie
07-24-2008, 02:00 PM
Just to be fair... I ran the numbers on the baseball config for RFK which increases % of available tickets sold to 44% (Listed at just under 46K seats). Still good for 11th on that ranking.

noochie
07-24-2008, 02:03 PM
Actually there was a post this week of the real Columbus attendance numbers (actual bums in seats) and our crowd at the opener inflated their avg by 250/game. The number of actual Bums in seats was way way under tickets sold. They are shit either way.... Almost make the Red Bulls look ... .. well ... less shitty :)

Gotcha. But yeah, I doubt any pro sports organization will release the actual number of ticket scans vs. tickets sold to factor into this. I have to use the announced attendance for the match.