Pasher called up to Nats

[jloome]

Remember how good Tyler Pasher was against Liverpool?

Seems Benito Floro sees something in him that Tomas Rongen didn't. From USL notes on mlssoccer.com:

The Pittsburgh Riverhounds will be minus a defender when they open the season against the Harrisburg City Islanders on Saturday.
Tyler Pasher, 20, has been called up to the Canadian Men’s National Team as a replacement for injured Vancouver Whitecaps defender Sam Adekugbe. This means Pasher, who previously represented Canada at the Under-20 level, will not be available for the Riverhounds’ season opener, and he has already joined the Canadian team in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, ahead of a match against Guatemala on Friday.

I swear, Rongen's tenure cost this franchise so much in talent and money, it's unbelievable.

[MartinUtd]

I've got to admit I haven't paid as much attention to our youth set up in the past. What were some of Rongen's failures (besides this one)?

[jloome]

I've got to admit I haven't paid as much attention to our youth set up in the past. What were some of Rongen's failures (besides this one)?

He released every young player who came up the pipe with the exceptions of Doneil and Ashton. I don't think any of our initial youth signings ever got close to their potential, and he seemed to write off pretty much any we still had including Pasher, Makubuya, Oscar Cordon, Stinson. I'm not sayign they'd all have made it, but cutting them at 20-to-22 when they hadn't had even a full two seasons of senior training seemed ludicrous. He also advised Winter on the team and we cut two center halfs in Nana and Adrian Cann who actually played pretty well for us (Cann averaged seven headed clearances a game in their final season). Cann is now the captain of the San Antonio USL team and Nana has bounced around but got really good reviews as a backup in San Jose (suggesting he's perhaps a bit burned out and cynical by now, which shouldn't surprise).

But more than all that, consider this: we signed most of our best young Academy players to the first team in 2011/2012 to better their development. Instead, Winter, De Klerk and Rongen immediately cut nearly all of them as not good enough, not recognizing that the North American development calendar is, by rote mechanism, several years slower than in Europe. You can bet that sent a whole lot of bad messages out to the soccer community about where people should take their kids, and it would be private academies like Sigma etc that will have benefited.

It all seemed really shortsighted. I remember our first year, we had a college player in Camp named Hunter West. He scored five goals in preseason... and was promptly cut by Mo as too risky, probably because of the stupid Canadian content rule that year. Never played pro. Went on to play senior club and coach, and was one of the best senior men's players in Penn the following year.

Still, I guess it was early days.

[ag futbol]

I watched this guy get rounded regularly in league one action. If anything this is a sign we are as desperate as ever to find serviceable players at the nats level.

I'd make the argument for Oscar Cordon or a few others, but not this guy.

[jloome]

We also lose Dylan Carreiro, Michael Petrasso and Kevin Aleman on his watch. Just to compound the point.

As for Pasher, he's doing well in USL ( he was slated to start for Pittsburgh this week). Maybe his heart wasn't exactly in League One after marking Joe Cole into the ground.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Pasher never played league 1, it must have been csl. He did pretty well in Finland a few years ago playing as a winger. It was a lower division club but he was the second highest scorer in the squad.

[ag futbol]

We also lose Dylan Carreiro, Michael Petrasso and Kevin Aleman on his watch. Just to compound the point.

As for Pasher, he's doing well in USL ( he was slated to start for Pittsburgh this week). Maybe his heart wasn't exactly in League One after marking Joe Cole into the ground.
I sat field level for that match. Other than the gigantic difference in size between the EPL vs. MLS players the next thing that stuck out was that nobody on Liverpool gave a quarter of a shit about putting an effort in.

They could have crushed him into our seats if they were inclined.

[MartinUtd]

He released every young player who came up the pipe with the exceptions of Doneil and Ashton. I don't think any of our initial youth signings ever got close to their potential, and he seemed to write off pretty much any we still had including Pasher, Makubuya, Oscar Cordon, Stinson. I'm not sayign they'd all have made it, but cutting them at 20-to-22 when they hadn't had even a full two seasons of senior training seemed ludicrous. He also advised Winter on the team and we cut two center halfs in Nana and Adrian Cann who actually played pretty well for us (Cann averaged seven headed clearances a game in their final season). Cann is now the captain of the San Antonio USL team and Nana has bounced around but got really good reviews as a backup in San Jose (suggesting he's perhaps a bit burned out and cynical by now, which shouldn't surprise).

But more than all that, consider this: we signed most of our best young Academy players to the first team in 2011/2012 to better their development. Instead, Winter, De Klerk and Rongen immediately cut nearly all of them as not good enough, not recognizing that the North American development calendar is, by rote mechanism, several years slower than in Europe. You can bet that sent a whole lot of bad messages out to the soccer community about where people should take their kids, and it would be private academies like Sigma etc that will have benefited.

It all seemed really shortsighted. I remember our first year, we had a college player in Camp named Hunter West. He scored five goals in preseason... and was promptly cut by Mo as too risky, probably because of the stupid Canadian content rule that year. Never played pro. Went on to play senior club and coach, and was one of the best senior men's players in Penn the following year.

Still, I guess it was early days.


Come to think of it, I do remember a lot of the TFC hopefuls getting let go at once. Cordon and Stinson in particular showed the most promise, the latter having a really good game against Henry and the Red Bulls towards the end of that season.

In the end though, you can only lay so much blame on the coaches given that there was no outlet for the youth to play in. The MLS reserve league was a joke and TFC should have tried to loan out players a lot sooner.

[Ajax TFC]

He released every young player who came up the pipe with the exceptions of Doneil and Ashton. I don't think any of our initial youth signings ever got close to their potential, and he seemed to write off pretty much any we still had including Pasher, Makubuya, Oscar Cordon, Stinson. I'm not sayign they'd all have made it, but cutting them at 20-to-22 when they hadn't had even a full two seasons of senior training seemed ludicrous. He also advised Winter on the team and we cut two center halfs in Nana and Adrian Cann who actually played pretty well for us (Cann averaged seven headed clearances a game in their final season). Cann is now the captain of the San Antonio USL team and Nana has bounced around but got really good reviews as a backup in San Jose (suggesting he's perhaps a bit burned out and cynical by now, which shouldn't surprise).

But more than all that, consider this: we signed most of our best young Academy players to the first team in 2011/2012 to better their development. Instead, Winter, De Klerk and Rongen immediately cut nearly all of them as not good enough, not recognizing that the North American development calendar is, by rote mechanism, several years slower than in Europe. You can bet that sent a whole lot of bad messages out to the soccer community about where people should take their kids, and it would be private academies like Sigma etc that will have benefited.

It all seemed really shortsighted. I remember our first year, we had a college player in Camp named Hunter West. He scored five goals in preseason... and was promptly cut by Mo as too risky, probably because of the stupid Canadian content rule that year. Never played pro. Went on to play senior club and coach, and was one of the best senior men's players in Penn the following year.

Still, I guess it was early days.
While I don't think that Rongen was at all qualified to run an academy, your facts are a little off. Most of those guys were cut by Mariner after the Dutch trio were fired. For example, that Liverpool game that Pasher looked so good in was after the Mariner coop. Cordon, Stinson, Makubuya, and Cann were all released during the Mariner/Payne offseason. I do believe that Rongen was responsible for sending Chapman away though.

I remember Mariner not dressing a full 18 and leaving those players out of the squad, making a comment to the effect of these kids shitting their pants on the bench at the thought of being put into the game.

[jloome]

While I don't think that Rongen was at all qualified to run an academy, your facts are a little off. Most of those guys were cut by Mariner after the Dutch trio were fired. For example, that Liverpool game that Pasher looked so good in was after the Mariner coop. Cordon, Stinson, Makubuya, and Cann were all released during the Mariner/Payne offseason. I do believe that Rongen was responsible for sending Chapman away though.

I remember Mariner not dressing a full 18 and leaving those players out of the squad, making a comment to the effect of these kids shitting their pants on the bench at the thought of being put into the game.

Rongen stayed until 2014, well after Mariner and into Payne. So it's hard to see him not being involved in those decisions, although I do recall Mariner crapping on them publicly. So Rongen may only be responsible for Chapman, Pasher, Carreiro, Petrasso... basically the best youth players we had.

[Ajax TFC]

Rongen stayed until 2014, well after Mariner and into Payne. So it's hard to see him not being involved in those decisions, although I do recall Mariner crapping on them publicly. So Rongen may only be responsible for Chapman, Pasher, Carreiro, Petrasso... basically the best youth players we had.
I forgot that Rongen stayed on after Winter and De Klerk left. But I find it hard to see him having any influence in first team decisions after that. Certainly not when Mariner was there, and I doubt he had any influence with Nelsen either. I think deserves a lot of criticism for quality talents leaving the youth teams, but I don't think he had anything to do with the guys that were signed to the first team being cut. I think he was also responsible for sending away Stefan Vukovic, but that was probably because there was no stepping stone from the academy to the first team. He wasn't ready to get time with the first team yet, but he also couldn't be kept in the academy since Jordan Hamilton was coming up behind him.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Carreiro, Petrasso... basically the best youth players we had.

Not to defend Rongen, but these players left to to sign with QPR. There wasn't really much we could do about it.

[jloome]

Not to defend Rongen, but these players left to to sign with QPR. There wasn't really much we could do about it.

No, they were gone before that. They left, along with Aleman, because he demanded a long-term commitment to TFC when they were still in the academy. Both practiced with a CSL club until their tryouts at QPR, at which point they were given youth deals.

Basically, Toronto wanted its three best Academy players to make a professional-level commitment with no contractual guarantee in place.

[Shway]

No, they were gone before that. They left, along with Aleman, because he demanded a long-term commitment to TFC when they were still in the academy. Both practiced with a CSL club until their tryouts at QPR, at which point they were given youth deals.

Basically, Toronto wanted its three best Academy players to make a professional-level commitment with no contractual guarantee in place.

Basically, Toronto wanted its three best Academy players to make a professional-level commitment with no contractual guarantee in place...so that in the event a club wants them they would get $omething for them? Thats the only thing that makes sense with those "professional-level commitments".

[Macksam]

I watched this guy get rounded regularly in league one action. If anything this is a sign we are as desperate as ever to find serviceable players at the nats level.

I'd make the argument for Oscar Cordon or a few others, but not this guy.

But he also put Raheem Sterling in his back pocket in that game against Liverpool, lol. Maybe he's an enigma. :rolleyes:

[Yohan]

But he also put Raheem Sterling in his back pocket in that game against Liverpool, lol. Maybe he's an enigma. :rolleyes:
one half game does not make a career. I mean, Weedman scored a one helluva technical goal against Spurs and no one is praising his name as the next awesome thing

[jloome]

one half game does not make a career. I mean, Weedman scored a one helluva technical goal against Spurs and no one is praising his name as the next awesome thing

True. But I would counter that he's been seen as performing well everywhere but here. He did well in Finland, he won the starting USL job in the offseason. Given his age, it just seemed very premature to let him go.

[Fort York Redcoat]

one half game does not make a career. I mean, Weedman scored a one helluva technical goal against Spurs and no one is praising his name as the next awesome thing

How soon we forget...

http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/soccer/tfc/2012/06/14/paul_mariner_looking_to_turn_around_toronto_fc/paul_marinerglasses.jpeg

[TFC07]

No, they were gone before that. They left, along with Aleman, because he demanded a long-term commitment to TFC when they were still in the academy. Both practiced with a CSL club until their tryouts at QPR, at which point they were given youth deals.

Basically, Toronto wanted its three best Academy players to make a professional-level commitment with no contractual guarantee in place.

I believe QPR kids were recruited after their performance in Under 17 tournament by Marc Bircham (former Canadian international player) who at the time was working with QPR academy.

Aleman and along with one other player left TFC academy because they didn't want to sign commitment letter.

[burlington Red]

lad only got called up to NT due to injury.Are we supposed to cry over ever young player we let go, if that's the case, Fergie let Pogba go for free, is he a bad manager.
He had a decent game in a meaningless friendly, look where he's playing now.

[Macksam]

one half game does not make a career. I mean, Weedman scored a one helluva technical goal against Spurs and no one is praising his name as the next awesome thing

I thought one game does make a career. :facepalm:

My comment was tongue and cheek.:thumbsup:

[PopePouri]

Bring back Gabe Gala.

[Greatest Ripoff]

No, they were gone before that. They left, along with Aleman, because he demanded a long-term commitment to TFC when they were still in the academy. Both practiced with a CSL club until their tryouts at QPR, at which point they were given youth deals.

Basically, Toronto wanted its three best Academy players to make a professional-level commitment with no contractual guarantee in place.

The Aleman thing happened before and was a separate incident in 2011. Petrasso and Carreiro only left TFC when they were signed by QPR in 2012. They did not practice with other CSL teams. You are thinking of Dino Gardiner and Jonathan Lao who left when Aleman did and played with other CSL teams. I watched Petrasso play for the TFC reserves at the end of 2011 when the CSL season was completed, they signed with QPR at the beginning of 2012.

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?30554-TFC-Academy-Stars-Plucked-by-QPR&highlight=petrasso

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?28102-Academy-Parts-Ways-With-Three&highlight=aleman

[molenshtain]

Bring back Gabe Gala.


I'm fairly sure Gabe Gala works real estate in vaughan now.