PDA

View Full Version : 2015 TFC TV rating



TFC07
03-09-2015, 05:04 PM
1) TFC @ Wankover on TSN1, TSN3, TSN4 and TSN5: 353,000

Source:

Luke Wileman ‏@LukeWileman (https://twitter.com/LukeWileman)41m (https://twitter.com/LukeWileman/status/575043754391904258)41 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/LukeWileman/status/575043754391904258)
Season opener becomes TSN’s most-watched MLS game ever with average audience of 353,000 viewers and 1.9 million unique Canadian viewers

2) TFC @ Columbus on TSN2 - 58,000

Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--mls-not-scoring-on-television-132357891.html

Defoe
03-09-2015, 05:49 PM
1) TFC @ Wankover on TSN1, TSN3, TSN4 and TSN5: 353,000

Source:

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Considering no pre-game, poor marketing, 20 minutes was missed by a lot of people because of Curling, It's not bad. But it's not great either. 500 k would have been nice but maybe i'm pushing a little to hard.

Overall probably pretty good.

TFC07
03-09-2015, 05:52 PM
Considering no pre-game, poor marketing, 20 minutes was missed by a lot of people because of Curling, It's not bad. But it's not great either. 500 k would have been nice but maybe i'm pushing a little to hard.

Overall probably pretty good.

Baby steps here.

TV ratings is league wide issue and TSN not having pre-game show and very little advertisement doesn't help promote MLS.

TFC just needs to become consistent winners to get solid TV ratings in the long term.

OgtheDim
03-09-2015, 05:59 PM
TFC just needs to become consistent winners to get solid TV ratings in the long term.


Local winners draw people, who drop in periodically once the team doesn't win in future years.

Secret of the CFL's success actually.

ManUtd4ever
03-09-2015, 06:44 PM
Impressive number, but no doubt buoyed by the fact that the match involved Canada's largest markets.

If TFC can maintain a winning record this season, I think 300K might be a realistic number on a consistent basis in due course, depending on scheduling conflicts. It's always going to be an uphill battle going up against the Jays.

mowe
03-09-2015, 07:30 PM
Next game is on TSN2 so expect a big drop.

nas
03-09-2015, 09:02 PM
Does anyone have stats on the number of subscriptions for TSN/TSN2 SN1/SN360? In previous years my guess would be that TSN2 would have SN1 and SN360 beat, but with all the NHL on Sportsnet this year, I wouldn't be surprised if that's changed.

Mulder
03-09-2015, 09:13 PM
Does anyone have stats on the number of subscriptions for TSN/TSN2 SN1/SN360? In previous years my guess would be that TSN2 would have SN1 and SN360 beat, but with all the NHL on Sportsnet this year, I wouldn't be surprised if that's changed.

TSN has about 9.2m, Sportsnet 8.8ish

habstfc
03-10-2015, 12:33 AM
That's an amazing number compared to America. Soccer is by far a bigger deal up her than down there. That would be like 3.5 million viewers in US when you consider US is 10x bigger than Canada.

Alonso
03-10-2015, 03:56 AM
That's an amazing number compared to America. Soccer is by far a bigger deal up her than down there. That would be like 3.5 million viewers in US when you consider US is 10x bigger than Canada.


True that.

3.5M viewers in the USA is a big deal.


That's basically what we drew in comparison here in Canada per capita.


EDIT: The TV Series Mad Men which is highly rated and critically acclaimed would draw similar numbers: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/27/mad-men-season-five-us-viewers

Mulder
03-10-2015, 07:41 AM
Impressive number, but no doubt buoyed by the fact that the match involved Canada's largest markets.

If TFC can maintain a winning record this season, I think 300K might be a realistic number on a consistent basis in due course, depending on scheduling conflicts. It's always going to be an uphill battle going up against the Jays.

Or buoyed by the fact that the game was sandwiched in between 2 curling games which drew two times the TV numbers.

I'd wait a few games before declaring ratings victory, we've seen year after year that the first few games are a high draw, and then they settle for 100k or less on the TSN main channel. Which has more or less been the average for TFC/MLS since it's inception, to suddenly have a 200% increase, which be great for soccer, but IMO completely unrealistic even if Canadian MLS teams fielded a competitive product.

nas
03-10-2015, 09:26 AM
TSN has about 9.2m, Sportsnet 8.8ish

Those are the numbers for the main channels, yes? I'm curious how their lesser channels compare. We always see a drop in ratings on TSN 2 and SN1/360, so I've always been curious of those numbers.


That's an amazing number compared to America. Soccer is by far a bigger deal up her than down there. That would be like 3.5 million viewers in US when you consider US is 10x bigger than Canada.

Yes, but as Americans point out in many threads, the game included two of the largest cities in our country with populations that make up a significant chunk of our overall national population. It's a bit hard to compare. A better comparison would be how local audiences numbers compare. The vast majority of those 350 000 are individuals from TO and Van. If we looked at a nationally televised Sounders-Galaxy game, you'd likely get as good if not better numbers just from the Seattle and LA areas.

Fort York Redcoat
03-10-2015, 09:33 AM
Or buoyed by the fact that the game was sandwiched in between 2 curling games which drew two times the TV numbers.

I'd wait a few games before declaring ratings victory, we've seen year after year that the first few games are a high draw, and then they settle for 100k or less on the TSN main channel. Which has more or less been the average for TFC/MLS since it's inception, to suddenly have a 200% increase, which be great for soccer, but IMO completely unrealistic even if Canadian MLS teams fielded a competitive product.

This thread is such a downer. Always. And that's coming from a Canada supporter.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/~bgzimmer/charlie-brown-sigh.png

Mulder
03-10-2015, 10:20 AM
Those are the numbers for the main channels, yes? I'm curious how their lesser channels compare. We always see a drop in ratings on TSN 2 and SN1/360, so I've always been curious of those numbers.


Yes, main channel. I'm unsure how the lesser channels compare, I can't find that information.
It looks like with the Big 2 providers (Rogers and Bell) works with a 3 tier system

With Basic you get the owners main channel - (SportsNet or TSN)
The next level you'll get both.
3rd level you'll get TSN2 & SportsNet1/360

Telus (Alberta and BC) You purchase a sports package which gives you all of the above.

Commie Red
03-10-2015, 11:22 AM
These promising ratings are being noticed. Quote from Leafs' coverage in today's Sun:

"Even the TFC got more than 50% of the Leaf rating and head-to-head in the same time slot," an advertising executive familiar with the Canadian sports broadcasting landscape said.

The Leafs, going head-to-head on the more widely available CBC, topped out at 743,000. Both hockey and football were dwarfed by the Brier at 1.25 million on TSN.

shwade
03-10-2015, 11:31 AM
These promising ratings are being noticed. Quote from Leafs' coverage in today's Sun:

"Even the TFC got more than 50% of the Leaf rating and head-to-head in the same time slot," an advertising executive familiar with the Canadian sports broadcasting landscape said.

The Leafs, going head-to-head on the more widely available CBC, topped out at 743,000. Both hockey and football were dwarfed by the Brier at 1.25 million on TSN.

Who the fuck are these people? Can we give them their own country

Redcoe15
03-10-2015, 11:39 AM
Who the fuck are these people? Can we give them their own country

Most of them live out in the prairies. Not a whole lot for them to do during their frigid winters. Having spent a few winters out there, I should know. Curling's a big deal and their regional tournaments get huge write-ups in the local papers.

OgtheDim
03-10-2015, 11:46 AM
Who the fuck are these people? Can we give them their own country

Demographics for curling are older with money. Pre Boomers and Boomers.

They have had the country for awhile. We are slowly taking it back.

Commie Red
03-10-2015, 11:49 AM
Who the fuck are these people? Can we give them their own country

Careful. Some of us even walk among you.

C.Ronaldo
03-10-2015, 11:57 AM
if darts can get an audience, curling surely can too.

TFC John
03-10-2015, 12:20 PM
They have their own country and you're living in it. At least we can win on the international stage in curling. Footy still has a long way to go.

ryan
03-10-2015, 12:25 PM
I said it in the bar and I'll say it here.

I fucking love me some curling.


Pro Tip: You don't have to hate curling (or the CFL for that matter) to like footie. It's seriously not required!

SoccMan2
03-10-2015, 01:06 PM
The curling numbers are interesting , it gets amazing numbers but I never hear anyone at my work place talk curling, you never hear kids at school talk curling, you don't hear curling talk on the street,however, you do hear most of the other sports talked about at work, with kids and on the street but then you look at the numbers and you see these crazy ratings it's amazing. The only thing that pisses me off is that TSN you have so many channels can you not switch the game to one of your other channels if the curling is going a bit longer? Moreover, you show MLS soccer you think you can advertise the upcoming games a bit more, at least try and see if it helps the ratings a bit my letting people know the MLS is on your stations!

Lumpy
03-10-2015, 03:06 PM
Here are the watched top watched sports shows for the week

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--curling-sweeps-aside-the-maple-leafs-175355663.html

C.Ronaldo
03-10-2015, 03:08 PM
drive north an hour or two. curling and junior hockey dominate the local tim horton's talk...eh

Qman
03-10-2015, 03:14 PM
Here are the watched top watched sports shows for the week

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--curling-sweeps-aside-the-maple-leafs-175355663.html


Great rating.

But as others have noted time and time in the past. Since curling went 20min into our time slot, you could have 900,000 first 15 mins and 600,000 for second 15min slot, your still getting 200k watching TFC which is 10x which were watching last year at points during the season.

habstfc
03-10-2015, 06:19 PM
Yes, but as Americans point out in many threads, the game included two of the largest cities in our country with populations that make up a significant chunk of our overall national population. It's a bit hard to compare. A better comparison would be how local audiences numbers compare. The vast majority of those 350 000 are individuals from TO and Van. If we looked at a nationally televised Sounders-Galaxy game, you'd likely get as good if not better numbers just from the Seattle and LA areas.

Look at espns numbers from las year. They would be lucky to get 300k viewers even with big markets playing in them. That's in a country with 325+ million people.

habstfc
03-10-2015, 06:23 PM
True that.

3.5M viewers in the USA is a big deal.


That's basically what we drew in comparison here in Canada per capita.


Unless its the world cup, soccer doesn't draw 3.5 million viewers in the US.

habstfc
03-10-2015, 06:37 PM
Most of them live out in the prairies. Not a whole lot for them to do during their frigid winters. Having spent a few winters out there, I should know. Curling's a big deal and their regional tournaments get huge write-ups in the local papers. I think it's a bit of a misconception when it comes to curling and cfl numbers that most of the viewers are out on the praires. Manitoba Sask and Alberta only have about 7 million people combined. I doubt everyone out there is a curling fan. I think there are lots of closet curling and cfl fans that don't admit for whatever reason that they watch it. i'll watch curling the odd time especially the women.

mr k
03-10-2015, 08:01 PM
I think it's a bit of a misconception when it comes to curling and cfl numbers that most of the viewers are out on the praires. Manitoba Sask and Alberta only have about 7 million people combined. I doubt everyone out there is a curling fan. I think there are lots of closet curling and cfl fans that don't admit for whatever reason that they watch it. i'll watch curling the odd time especially the women.

Viewpoints expressed here about the validity of curling or CFL is really a reflection of these commentators hemmed in by their personal demographics such as where they live, circle of friends/family and/or age bracket. To top it off, they don't attempt to widen their worldview by seeking out multiple sources of info/insight on the interwebs. So, it's no surprise they're shocked! that curling or CFL blow away TFC ratings. In a way, they're just like the vaccine or climate change deniers.

I would also say curling has much upside as MLS in Canada. Curling is relatively new to the Olympics and Canada dominates the sport. So, govt funding is pouring in & there is a wider talent pool interested in becoming elite players. Sportsnet is funding its own curling tournaments and showing provincial playdowns which are getting 200-300k ratings which is the same as the avg Raptors game. Only Christine Sinclair would come close to the name recognition of Jennifer Jones or Brad Jacobs across Canada.

Kaz
03-10-2015, 08:11 PM
I like Curling.. I also spent Grade 1 through Grade 7 in Northern Ontario and Manitoba where we would go curling for gym. When I came to southern Ontario.. no curling. It is a neat sport. Though I think ya it is mostly Boomer and Pre Boomers. it's like Bocce. When I was growing up the Bocce court was always in use in Niagara Falls but I game back to the falls and the local court is over grown, hasn't been used in years. Which is a shame I actually like it.

Of course I don't know anyone my age that has been to two Briers (at least one was Labatt Brier I can't recall if it was Labatt or Timmies in Hamilton) without regularly playing, and I haven't played in decades.

TFC07
03-10-2015, 08:33 PM
Viewpoints expressed here about the validity of curling or CFL is really a reflection of these commentators hemmed in by their personal demographics such as where they live, circle of friends/family and/or age bracket. To top it off, they don't attempt to widen their worldview by seeking out multiple sources of info/insight on the interwebs. So, it's no surprise they're shocked! that curling or CFL blow away TFC ratings. In a way, they're just like the vaccine or climate change deniers.

I would also say curling has much upside as MLS in Canada. Curling is relatively new to the Olympics and Canada dominates the sport. So, govt funding is pouring in & there is a wider talent pool interested in becoming elite players. Sportsnet is funding its own curling tournaments and showing provincial playdowns which are getting 200-300k ratings which is the same as the avg Raptors game. Only Christine Sinclair would come close to the name recognition of Jennifer Jones or Brad Jacobs across Canada.

Sorry, I am Canadian and I have no clue who those two were until I google their names.

Anyway, TORONTO and pretty much rest of Southern Ontario is different beast when comes to sports where curling and CFL isn't popular while soccer is up and coming sport (which is why MLSE got into soccer business and investing a lot of money in their soccer operation these days). Curling isn't urban sport that will have a huge following in this region. Curling culture isn't there to be appealing in this region, so I fail to see how they have bigger upside than soccer which has highest participation numbers in this country while World Cup ratings (despite lack of Canadian content) crush Curling's biggest tournament TV ratings.

OgtheDim
03-10-2015, 08:46 PM
Viewpoints expressed here about the validity of curling or CFL is really a reflection of these commentators hemmed in by their personal demographics such as where they live, circle of friends/family and/or age bracket. To top it off, they don't attempt to widen their worldview by seeking out multiple sources of info/insight on the interwebs. So, it's no surprise they're shocked! that curling or CFL blow away TFC ratings. In a way, they're just like the vaccine or climate change deniers.



Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.....not necessarily.

I grew up curling. Watched the Orest Melynchuk burned rock incident during the Silver Broom. Family curled. Know the game. Enjoy watching it occasionally, although the men's game at the top levels has become too perfect.

I miss the corn brooms and the synthetic ones that followed. Nothing like a big WAP WAP WAP sound in the rink.

Also know who the demographic is, outside of the prairies. I stand by my statement that its a game mostly followed by boomers and older then them. i.e 55+

When it comes to recognition of Canadian athletes, curling probably ranks 3rd behind hockey and basketball. BUT, far more Canadians would know Messi and Ronaldo then any curler or basketball player.

ag futbol
03-10-2015, 08:56 PM
I can agree with part of that. Curling ratings or cfl are no fluke however.., to suggest curling due for a growth spurt is a bit laughable. Plenty of sports go to the Olympics then get dumped later. It's got its core audience but it's not going any further.

Here is some actual evidence, as opposed to random comments about "widening ones worldview". The sport is essentially stagnant: 19k less people curl now than they did in 2008.

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/curling/prairies-remain-the-bedrock-for-canadian-curling

habstfc
03-10-2015, 08:57 PM
Weekend ratings in US.
539k OCSC vs NYCFC
268k SKC vs NYRB
289k Seattle vs NER

habstfc
03-10-2015, 09:01 PM
Sorry, I am Canadian and I have no clue who those two were until I google their names.

Anyway, TORONTO and pretty much rest of Southern Ontario is different beast when comes to sports where curling and CFL isn't popular while soccer is up and coming sport (which is why MLSE got into soccer business and investing a lot of money in their soccer operation these days). Curling isn't urban sport that will have a huge following in this region. Curling culture isn't there to be appealing in this region, so I fail to see how they have bigger upside than soccer which has highest participation numbers in this country while World Cup ratings (despite lack of Canadian content) crush Curling's biggest tournament TV ratings. You must not have TSN or Sportsnet if you've never heard of Jennifer Jones.

Can't compare World Cup to anything.

TFC07
03-10-2015, 09:05 PM
You must not have TSN or Sportsnet if you've never heard of Jennifer Jones.

Can't compare World Cup to anything.

I don't watch Canadian sports network outside TheScore aka Sportsnet360 since they suck and don't know what they're talking about outside of hockey.

I like many people these days get news from social media and non-Canadian media outlets who actually know what they're talking about when comes to sports like basketball and soccer while provide BALANCE sports coverage that we don't see in Canada.

ManUtd4ever
03-10-2015, 10:12 PM
Weekend ratings in US.
539k OCSC vs NYCFC
268k SKC vs NYRB
289k Seattle vs NER

That's brutal.

Kaz
03-10-2015, 10:18 PM
I don't watch Canadian sports network outside TheScore aka Sportsnet360 since they suck and don't know what they're talking about outside of hockey.

I like many people these days get news from social media and non-Canadian media outlets who actually know what they're talking about when comes to sports like basketball and soccer while provide BALANCE sports coverage that we don't see in Canada.
TFC07 just out of curiosity because you are in Brampton, are you first generation Canadian and only lived in the GTA? (serious question without judgement, I'm just curious if the lack of curling knowledge is a Brampton thing (as there really aren't that many rinks (I know 3) for a town of 500k I know towns a tenth that size in the north with that many, or if it is a larger southern Ontario issue)

TFC07
03-10-2015, 11:10 PM
TFC07 just out of curiosity because you are in Brampton, are you first generation Canadian and only lived in the GTA? (serious question without judgement, I'm just curious if the lack of curling knowledge is a Brampton thing (as there really aren't that many rinks (I know 3) for a town of 500k I know towns a tenth that size in the north with that many, or if it is a larger southern Ontario issue)

Yes and Yes to your questions.

mowe
03-10-2015, 11:36 PM
That's brutal.

Theyre actually quite happy with those numbers. They're a significant increase over last year.

Tyler
03-11-2015, 01:12 AM
I like TFC. I also like curling. I was born and raised in southern Ontario but have since moved to northern Alberta and the Yukon. It's liked everywhere, and the curling club is sincerely the backbone of small-town Canada.

And as for curling ratings? I know the Brier is not the Scotties, but still ...

We all know Rachel Homan, correct? The best part is that there are other female curlers out there who are just as talented.

http://tpiwwp.com/out.php/i10303_pc2-6431b-lr.jpg

habstfc
03-11-2015, 01:17 AM
Theyre actually quite happy with those numbers. They're a significant increase over last year. They are actually pretty crap considering it was opening weekend.

Supporting
03-11-2015, 01:26 AM
They are actually pretty crap considering it was opening weekend.

How is that crap? pretty decent imo, just around what tfc got...

Dunkers
03-11-2015, 02:06 AM
How is that crap? pretty decent imo, just around what tfc got...

318 million potential viewers vs 35 million...not the same. Just look at the amount of sports team the US supports, with the NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB and they could only muster half a million for the debut of NYFC and OCSC, and barley a quarter for Sea vs NE, 2 teams poised to do well this year. Thats not even one tenth of what the other leagues would expect on opening day, those numbers are shockingly bad!

brad
03-11-2015, 06:43 AM
The curling numbers are interesting , it gets amazing numbers but I never hear anyone at my work place talk curling, you never hear kids at school talk curling, you don't hear curling talk on the street,however, you do hear most of the other sports talked about at work, with kids and on the street but then you look at the numbers and you see these crazy ratings it's amazing. The only thing that pisses me off is that TSN you have so many channels can you not switch the game to one of your other channels if the curling is going a bit longer? Moreover, you show MLS soccer you think you can advertise the upcoming games a bit more, at least try and see if it helps the ratings a bit my letting people know the MLS is on your stations!

Go to the prairies as noted above. It's massive there, you will hear about it all the time if you talk to people over 50. I think it's also big on the east coast.

brad
03-11-2015, 06:46 AM
Sorry, I am Canadian and I have no clue who those two were until I google their names.

Anyway, TORONTO and pretty much rest of Southern Ontario is different beast when comes to sports where curling and CFL isn't popular while soccer is up and coming sport (which is why MLSE got into soccer business and investing a lot of money in their soccer operation these days). Curling isn't urban sport that will have a huge following in this region. Curling culture isn't there to be appealing in this region, so I fail to see how they have bigger upside than soccer which has highest participation numbers in this country while World Cup ratings (despite lack of Canadian content) crush Curling's biggest tournament TV ratings.

To provide a counter point, I know a lot of Canadians I could ask that would have no idea who DeRo or Christine Sinclair is. It's all about your point of reference.

Alonso
03-11-2015, 06:56 AM
I like TFC. I also like curling. I was born and raised in southern Ontario but have since moved to northern Alberta and the Yukon. It's liked everywhere, and the curling club is sincerely the backbone of small-town Canada.

And as for curling ratings? I know the Brier is not the Scotties, but still ...

We all know Rachel Homan, correct? The best part is that there are other female curlers out there who are just as talented.

http://tpiwwp.com/out.php/i10303_pc2-6431b-lr.jpg


Never heard of her.

I've seen a hand full of curling matches during the Olympics and that's about it.

Never read or seen a single news item on it ever either.

ManUtd4ever
03-11-2015, 09:09 AM
Curling is fun to play, but it doesn't exactly make for riveting television. I find the ratings to be fascinating.

Yohan
03-11-2015, 09:12 AM
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/62838/tv-report-huge-bump-for-espn2-opener.html

Just first week, but TV ratings MLS wide is up

C.Ronaldo
03-11-2015, 09:30 AM
come one people, how are we comparing curling to soccer

one is small town Canada, the other requires top physical conditioning.

Its bocce on ice. I dont hate curling, would love to play in a league someday. But we aren't comparing apples to apples here

brad
03-11-2015, 11:35 AM
Curling is fun to play, but it doesn't exactly make for riveting television. I find the ratings to be fascinating.

I have a bunch of family that watch curling without fail. Interesting enough, several of them find soccer "incredibly boring". It's all in the eye of the beholder.


come one people, how are we comparing curling to soccer

one is small town Canada, the other requires top physical conditioning.

Its bocce on ice. I dont hate curling, would love to play in a league someday. But we aren't comparing apples to apples here

Actually, you'll find a lot of folks in Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and Regina that are very into it, so it's not exactly just small town. Doesn't really matter though, people have different interests. I personally know a lot of people that find football boring. To each there own (but I do find watching curling about as appealing as watching paint dry)

Mulder
03-11-2015, 11:50 AM
I have a bunch of family that watch curling without fail. Interesting enough, several of them find soccer "incredibly boring". It's all in the eye of the beholder.



Actually, you'll find a lot of folks in Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and Regina that are very into it, so it's not exactly just small town. Doesn't really matter though, people have different interests. I personally know a lot of people that find football boring. To each there own (but I do find watching curling about as appealing as watching paint dry)


David Naylor and Steve Simmons actually touched on this a week or so ago. Ratings, sports talk, and what interests Toronto, doesn't interest the rest of the country.

Copying a post from another forum.
"Basically the two said that if they based their station format on national TV numbers they would be talking NHL, CFL and Curling.
They also went on to say the Toronto sports view is heavily scewed towards the United States and what is hot in Toronto (Raptors especially) is not even on the radar in the rest of the country."

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/tsn-drive-hour-3-1.224277

Commie Red
03-11-2015, 12:00 PM
I don't get this hate-on for curling here and the desperate desire to marginalize it or distance oneself from it. We should embrace its popularity as wonderfully and almost uniquely Canadian (Hell, let's work it into a TIFO!). It is popular -- accept it, learn from it, enjoy it.

I live downtown Toronto. I am an immigrant (from a non-curling country). I love footy. On most Sunday mornings instead of just rolling out of bed and turning on the TV I go to a curling club and watch the early EPL match with a bunch of other people. After the game I curl for 2 hours. The people I play with, demographically, look identical to the people standing around me in 112 (most in their 20's and 30's with a generous spattering of robust grey hairs passing on what they've learned). And, unlike TFC, there is a real waiting list of people wishing to join. Contrary to what people have said here, the majority (18%) of Canadian curlers are youth, between the ages of 12-17 and a large section of them (25%) live in three cities: Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal.

Like other things that were once almost uniquely and stereotypically Canadian (lumber jack shirts, toques, burly beards and good beer) curling has even become hip in that place that arbitrates all that is hip for Toronto: Brooklyn, New York.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/11/nyregion/the-sport-of-curling-finds-a-new-popularity-in-brooklyn.html?ref=nyregion&_r=3

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/thursday-supreme-court-cell-phone-ruling-cia-psychologists-brooklyn-curling-and-more-1.2902584/beards-beer-and-bonspiels-curling-is-the-new-obsession-for-brooklyn-hipsters-1.2902591

Leave it to Torontoians to abandon their rightful claim to a unique element of Canadian culture just as it becomes cool.

ensco
03-11-2015, 12:33 PM
No idea what that number means.

In May 2007, TFC drew 500K for a game on CBC sandwiched between two NHL playoff games.

There also has to be a novelty factor for the early games with Giovinco.

Let's see what happens to the July/August numbers. Last year TFC was in playoff position and drawing 100K for weekend home games on TSN, and 30K or worse for western road games on Sportsnet 360 or TSN2. That is the apples to apples comparison.

sully
03-11-2015, 12:58 PM
It seems to me that all these numbers are estimates of how many people watch on traditional cable tv channels. I watched the Orlando v NY game on MLSLIVE, am I counted in these 'ratings'? I also mostly watch Toronto away games on MLSLIVE through the use of a vpn or other online options - I wouldn't be counted there either.

Also, my sense is the MLS demographic disproportionently people, I can guess who are like me, who get turned off by being asked to pay for a whole bunch of channels we don't want in order to have the 2 we want, and so say no I won't do that I'll just watch it online. I can't see the curling crowd (50s plus) doing that...

brad
03-11-2015, 01:14 PM
David Naylor and Steve Simmons actually touched on this a week or so ago. Ratings, sports talk, and what interests Toronto, doesn't interest the rest of the country.

Copying a post from another forum.
"Basically the two said that if they based their station format on national TV numbers they would be talking NHL, CFL and Curling.
They also went on to say the Toronto sports view is heavily scewed towards the United States and what is hot in Toronto (Raptors especially) is not even on the radar in the rest of the country."

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/tsn-drive-hour-3-1.224277

Doesn't surprise me one bit. Toronto is definitely a lot different than the rest of the country.

brad
03-11-2015, 01:18 PM
No idea what that number means.

In May 2007, TFC drew 500K for a game on CBC sandwiched between two NHL playoff games.

There also has to be a novelty factor for the early games with Giovinco.

Let's see what happens to the July/August numbers. Last year TFC was in playoff position and drawing 100K for weekend home games on TSN, and 30K or worse for western road games on Sportsnet 360 or TSN2. That is the apples to apples comparison.

We drew high for the first couple of games last year as I recall, and then things tanked off quickly. The last match ratings were definitely influences by what you mention, as well as having Vancouver involved, which would draw numbers out West that would not turn a TFC game on.

The one thing I'll say - it was a pretty entertaining game, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it won over some new fans.

Kaz
03-11-2015, 01:33 PM
Yes and Yes to your questions.

So it's not as surprising you don't know who the Skips of the Gold Medal Rinks are. It just isn't something you would have grown up with in Brampton. I can honestly say 5 years in Brampton has taught me that in general it is unlike any of the 15 other cities/towns I've lived in Canada.

Seriously if you are near City Centre there is a Curling club right at Chinguacousy Park and another on Elliott Ave in the Downtown area it is fun to check out. It isn't for everyone, but it really has a surprising huge amount of strategy, it is a wonderful game of physics and geometry. As much as Bocce games are similar, the ice adds a dimension that changes it up and makes it a true team sport.

There is a reason why 1.5 Million were watching the Brier. :) (just to bring it back to topic rather ;) )

C.Ronaldo
03-11-2015, 02:29 PM
yes back on topic

any tips on building a backyard curling rink? lol im fully intrigued.
way more fun than axe throwing

Kaz
03-11-2015, 04:14 PM
yes back on topic

any tips on building a backyard curling rink? lol im fully intrigued.
way more fun than axe throwing
Wait a year, it is too warm to do it now. ;)

brad
03-11-2015, 04:16 PM
yes back on topic

any tips on building a backyard curling rink? lol im fully intrigued.
way more fun than axe throwing

Maybe these folks could help you out :)
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/02/03/backyard-curling-rocks-the-junction.html

GuelphStorm2007
03-11-2015, 05:13 PM
I used to curl myself and plan too do it again someday, Even here in Guelph Curling is quite popular amogst the 35 to 60 crowd. But At the same time I do find the numbers TSN get for curling interesting. I think most the tv viewing comes form the Praires But nonetheless If we want to see great rating TFC have to be very competitive through the year. Lets not forget the first few seasons the games were carried on CBC which has a bigger audience than TSN

Pookie
03-11-2015, 05:21 PM
350 is about right for a season opener involving 2 CDN markets.

Vancouver drew about 115k on average last year. TFC was slightly below that. Add them together and throw in some curious viewers and there you go.

I don't know what to make of the season long trend. I imagine these will drop again like last year and there will be some lows in there. I think fans in general just don't see value in MLS and when the time comes MLS playoffs. Sure they will watch if TFC makes it but how many of us will watch if they don't.

All in all, still happy to see the games on mainstream and those are nice numbers out of the gate.

jloome
03-11-2015, 05:30 PM
350 is about right for a season opener involving 2 CDN markets.

Vancouver drew about 115k on average last year. TFC was slightly below that. Add them together and throw in some curious viewers and there you go.

I don't know what to make of the season long trend. I imagine these will drop again like last year and there will be some lows in there. I think fans in general just don't see value in MLS and when the time comes MLS playoffs. Sure they will watch if TFC makes it but how many of us will watch if they don't.

All in all, still happy to see the games on mainstream and those are nice numbers out of the gate.

I notice they have an "individual viewers" breakout; isn't that the actual rating, with the 350K the number of households? TV ratings are traditionally by number of viewers.

habstfc
03-11-2015, 05:45 PM
You have to remember also that when ratings are calculated they just don't use certain age groups or geography for the final number. They are calculated across the whole country just not the praires or Ontario etc.

habstfc
03-11-2015, 11:30 PM
MLS.COM actually has a thread saying the 3 mentioned games had big ratings. 2 of the three were outwatched by a significant number in a country with 1/10 the population. It's pretty embarrassing saying big ratings for games with 268k and 289k viewers.

Detroit_TFC
03-12-2015, 08:40 AM
The ESPN2 audience number was a surprise though. A typical non-Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal Prem game on NBCSN gets those kind of numbers.

Areathrasher
03-12-2015, 08:45 AM
The Fox numbers were double the average for NBCSN last year. So while it's nothing to really shout about it is a small sign of progress.

Have to keep it up though

C.Ronaldo
03-12-2015, 08:57 AM
wish MLS posted MLS live (or whatever it is now) numbers, including people who watched it as a replay. Even viewers of condensed version would be worth looking at because that "urban" crowd just dont sit on the couch and watch 2 hours of sports

JonO
03-12-2015, 08:59 AM
I don't know what to make of the season long trend. I imagine these will drop again like last year and there will be some lows in there. I think fans in general just don't see value in MLS and when the time comes MLS playoffs. Sure they will watch if TFC makes it but how many of us will watch if they don't.
I almost expect the ratings to drop as the weather improves. Hard to justify sitting indoors watching TV on a nice day.

TravelPat
03-17-2015, 11:12 PM
Ouch! Only 58,000 viewers for Saturdays game. At least we beat the CIS basketball final.
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--mls-not-scoring-on-television-132357891.html

jloome
03-17-2015, 11:32 PM
I almost expect the ratings to drop as the weather improves. Hard to justify sitting indoors watching TV on a nice day.

That's why every good deck needs a flatscreen.g:D

Qman
03-18-2015, 12:22 AM
Ouch! Only 58,000 viewers for Saturdays game. At least we beat the CIS basketball final.
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--mls-not-scoring-on-television-132357891.html

wow. thats pathetic.


MLSE has do better at marketing this club and promoting outside the core fans.

OgtheDim
03-18-2015, 06:23 AM
Saw this last season. One mitigating factor - it was TSN2 while there was another game going on with VCWC.


That having been said, none of those numbers are really all that good. 1 out of 15 people watching hockey isn't exactly indicative that hockey is the be all and end all of life in this country.

We get really interested in the Olympics and in finals.

Apart from that, all sports in this country is a small slice of Canadian life.


No need getting warped about all of this.

ensco
03-18-2015, 06:30 AM
Putting games on Saturday nights is generally dumb. This debate has been had here before - the large number of people on this board that dislike 4pm starts and like Sat night games are totally unrepresentative. By definition casual fans, and people with spouses that aren't fanatics, are busy elsewhere on Saturday nights. Doing this against HNIC in this country is particularly hard to understand.

This league has so many scheduling issues.

TravelPat
04-05-2015, 09:25 PM
Anybody know what number TFC's game in Salt Lake City got in Canadian ratings last week? It drew 211,000 on Fox Sports 1 in the USA - the #35 of programs that week on that network which averaged 231,000 for all programming that week.

At least that beat the ESPN2 game last Sunday between Chicago and Philly which drew just 152,000. Not the greatest number considering the average of all programming on ESPN2 for the week was 221,000. The MLS game was the 79th rated program on ESPN2's schedule that week.

I guess growing the TV numbers is going to be a slow process for the MLS.

ryan
04-06-2015, 08:21 AM
They'd probably grow the TV ratings quicker if they presented the game like we're seeing on Euro Sport streams.

I'd rather watch a mid-quality video stream with that broadcast than any of the shit we're given through TSN/SN.

GabrielHurl
04-06-2015, 08:51 AM
Anybody know what number TFC's game in Salt Lake City got in Canadian ratings last week? It drew 211,000 on Fox Sports 1 in the USA - the #35 of programs that week on that network which averaged 231,000 for all programming that week.

At least that beat the ESPN2 game last Sunday between Chicago and Philly which drew just 152,000. Not the greatest number considering the average of all programming on ESPN2 for the week was 221,000. The MLS game was the 79th rated program on ESPN2's schedule that week.

I guess growing the TV numbers is going to be a slow process for the MLS.

Well - it was less than 130,000

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--younger-viewers-in-short-supply-193007391.html

Pookie
04-06-2015, 11:41 AM
I think the problem is more fundamental than just quality of streaming or whether it is nice outside.

I think ratings struggle both in season and in playoffs for the same fundamental reason, the target audience doesn't relate to the playoff format.

North Americans are used to playoffs to settle things. But soccer/football fans aren't. It encourages a "bush league" or second tier aspect to MLS and makes it hard to legitimize it as a "true" soccer/football league.

By having a playoff format within MLS you introduce a number of reasons for the general soccer/football fan not to watch. For example:


Every game doesn't have meaning. A single table encourages an importance on every point.




Similarly, what's the point of winning the table in the regular season to get knocked out early on? It speaks to the authenticity of the league in the minds of true soccer/football fans.




Coaches, who claim games aren't "must win" games feed that. The conclusion is that if I'm busy and it's not a must win, I may not watch.




The number of teams that qualify for the post season isn't yet at CFL ridiculousness but what are we at now... 12 of 20? 60%? C'mon.




Unbalanced schedule hurts that perception too. How can you claim to be a top team if you haven't played everyone equally? This isn't at NHL levels where they manufactured rivalries with local teams playing each other 8 times in a season a few years back but it feels contrived in the interest of gate receipts, doesn't it?



And that fuels the pattern, IMO.

The pattern is that the first game or two attracts ratings as people are hungry to see the game return. It then fades. Picks up towards the end of the season if you are in an interesting spot but ultimately if your team isn't involved you lose interest in the whole process that is the race to the MLS Cup.

Even if they are involved, you wonder what the point of that long regular season was. That makes you less likely to watch games that aren't the home opener or derby matches throughout the regular season.

Interesting hypothesis, would doing away with the playoffs actually improve the ratings? I think it might.

OgtheDim
04-06-2015, 12:18 PM
Nah......lack of playoffs don't mean that much. Soccer just isn't a big TV sport in Canada or the US apart from the World Cup.

ryan
04-06-2015, 01:31 PM
Every game doesn't have meaning. A single table encourages an importance on every point.

Agreed. With 6/10 making the playoffs this season, matches just don't feel worth a whole lot of anything. It's like baseball. 160 something games of trading wins and losses.


Similarly, what's the point of winning the table in the regular season to get knocked out early on? It speaks to the authenticity of the league in the minds of true soccer/football fans.


Other than a spot in the CCL, it's nearly useless. CCL (must to my personal dismay) is also, nearly useless.


Coaches, who claim games aren't "must win" games feed that. The conclusion is that if I'm busy and it's not a must win, I may not watch.

Yep. You can always get your points another week.


The number of teams that qualify for the post season isn't yet at CFL ridiculousness but what are we at now... 12 of 20? 60%? C'mon.

Even 4/10 would be too much IMO.


Unbalanced schedule hurts that perception too. How can you claim to be a top team if you haven't played everyone equally? This isn't at NHL levels where they manufactured rivalries with local teams playing each other 8 times in a season a few years back but it feels contrived in the interest of gate receipts, doesn't it?

I can't think of a reputable pro sports league that has a season schedule as awful as this one.

Yohan
04-06-2015, 01:43 PM
I think the problem is more fundamental than just quality of streaming or whether it is nice outside.

I think ratings struggle both in season and in playoffs for the same fundamental reason, the target audience doesn't relate to the playoff format.

North Americans are used to playoffs to settle things. But soccer/football fans aren't. It encourages a "bush league" or second tier aspect to MLS and makes it hard to legitimize it as a "true" soccer/football league.

By having a playoff format within MLS you introduce a number of reasons for the general soccer/football fan not to watch. For example:


Every game doesn't have meaning. A single table encourages an importance on every point.




Similarly, what's the point of winning the table in the regular season to get knocked out early on? It speaks to the authenticity of the league in the minds of true soccer/football fans.
So... Mexicans and Central Americans with playoffs aren't true soccer fans? Australians? Some Europeans?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playoffs#International_playoffs

Funny how many leagues use playoffs in one format or another





Coaches, who claim games aren't "must win" games feed that. The conclusion is that if I'm busy and it's not a must win, I may not watch.




The number of teams that qualify for the post season isn't yet at CFL ridiculousness but what are we at now... 12 of 20? 60%? C'mon.


Yet in a lot of cases, just that 3 points you won or lost early season may be the difference between whether you make the playoffs or not.




Unbalanced schedule hurts that perception too. How can you claim to be a top team if you haven't played everyone equally? This isn't at NHL levels where they manufactured rivalries with local teams playing each other 8 times in a season a few years back but it feels contrived in the interest of gate receipts, doesn't it?

Can't argue much here. Then again, some leagues play each other 3 times a year and that extra home game slightly tilts the odds in that team's favour.



And that fuels the pattern, IMO.

The pattern is that the first game or two attracts ratings as people are hungry to see the game return. It then fades. Picks up towards the end of the season if you are in an interesting spot but ultimately if your team isn't involved you lose interest in the whole process that is the race to the MLS Cup.

Even if they are involved, you wonder what the point of that long regular season was. That makes you less likely to watch games that aren't the home opener or derby matches throughout the regular season.

Interesting hypothesis, would doing away with the playoffs actually improve the ratings? I think it might.
With no playoffs, and with no pro/rel (I don't even want to get into that discussion), if a team turns out to be league winner by mid season, then the counterargument is, what's the point of watching games when you already know who the league champion is going to be. And if you know your team is going to be mid table by mid season, would you be more or less inclined to watch your team?

Yohan
04-06-2015, 01:43 PM
I can't think of a reputable pro sports league that has a season schedule as awful as this one.
NFL? ;)

Carts
04-06-2015, 02:44 PM
Saturday April 4th / 2015 - Chicago Fire vs Toronto FC - SportsNet One = 90,000

Adult 18-34 = 15,000
Adult 18-49 = 55,000
Adult 25-54 = 55,000

Males 18-34 = 10,000
Males 18-49 = 34,000
Males 25-54 = 31,000


* Please note the cross-over years in the data collected - the total of the categories will not equal the total audience.

Carts.

Beach_Red
04-06-2015, 03:38 PM
Nah......lack of playoffs don't mean that much. Soccer just isn't a big TV sport in Canada or the US apart from the World Cup.

Yeah, I think you're right. And with so much competition for TV viewers, probably the best way to improve ratings is through these kinds of 'event' programming - like playoffs. Short periods of intense viewing. The NFL was likely only able to move in on baseball in the first place by event programming - Monday Night Football and the Super Bowl.

Even TV dramas have gone to shorter seasons - 13 episodes or less.

Qman
04-06-2015, 04:32 PM
Saturday April 4th / 2015 - Chicago Fire vs Toronto FC - SportsNet One = 90,000

Adult 18-34 = 15,000
Adult 18-49 = 55,000
Adult 25-54 = 55,000

Males 18-34 = 10,000
Males 18-49 = 34,000
Males 25-54 = 31,000


* Please note the cross-over years in the data collected - the total of the categories will not equal the total audience.

Carts.


interesting that most of the viewers are 35-49 yrs old. And 40% are female. people in my section seem younger and not alot of women.

still numbers are so low and pathetic that you cant read too much into it. Got to hand it to MLSE they've put the money into the Stadium despite getting no traction on interest level. Maybe some of that money would have been better spent on marketing.

Macksam
04-06-2015, 06:47 PM
Nah......lack of playoffs don't mean that much. Soccer just isn't a big TV sport in Canada or the US apart from the World Cup.

Well, it's the quality of the league mostly. If MLS was a top 5 league and the average salary was $1,000,000 +, the league's ratings would be stellar in both countries.

Pookie
04-06-2015, 08:18 PM
So... Mexicans and Central Americans with playoffs aren't true soccer fans? Australians? Some Europeans?

Of course they are true fans. But I'd wager that they are not in MLS' target market. Most of the big names have been European. Not saying that the talent from Central America isn't there as there have been some fantastic players. But the big names that are brought here for tickets usually come from Europe.



With no playoffs, and with no pro/rel (I don't even want to get into that discussion), if a team turns out to be league winner by mid season, then the counterargument is, what's the point of watching games when you already know who the league champion is going to be. And if you know your team is going to be mid table by mid season, would you be more or less inclined to watch your team?

That is hard to counter. I guess the only real question is would viewership be less than it is now by mid-season?

You might see the Open Cup take on more prominence and perhaps a new North American Cup type format.

brad
04-06-2015, 09:50 PM
It would be interesting to see what the ratings would be like if we ever managed to put a winning streak together.

brad
04-06-2015, 09:53 PM
interesting that most of the viewers are 35-49 yrs old. And 40% are female. people in my section seem younger and not alot of women.

still numbers are so low and pathetic that you cant read too much into it. Got to hand it to MLSE they've put the money into the Stadium despite getting no traction on interest level. Maybe some of that money would have been better spent on marketing.

I wonder if that has to do with the younger demographic being more likely to stream as opposed have cable

Qman
04-06-2015, 11:08 PM
It would be interesting to see what the ratings would be like if we ever managed to put a winning streak together.

i think they got worst every game when defoe got on his run first half of last year.

Qman
04-06-2015, 11:09 PM
I wonder if that has to do with the younger demographic being more likely to stream as opposed have cable

if you can't afford cable with the basic sports package (ie. TSN or SN) your one step away from a cardboard box

OgtheDim
04-07-2015, 06:28 AM
if you can't afford cable with the basic sports package (ie. TSN or SN) your one step away from a cardboard box

Or you prefer to spend your money on something else.

Cord cutting isn't about being poor, its about personal choices.

ensco
04-07-2015, 07:08 AM
I wonder if that has to do with the younger demographic being more likely to stream as opposed have cable

I don't think soccer viewing is intrinsically younger than other sports. The BMO crowd is mostly suits and families, away from the south end. I could see that argument for basketball though. That is a younger, hipper crowd at the ACC.

MLS being a minor league is part of it, but TFC especially is a complete joke to most casual fans.

I don't think any of us here want to wallow in the depth of that. Most people have to practically apologize for watching or going to the games! Following TFC is a character flaw in most households.

The team needs an identity change that no new signing can do alone to move the ratings needle anywhere. It would take a whole season or two of winning (with buzz around atmosphere and real sellouts) to change that.

Beach_Red
04-07-2015, 07:56 AM
The team needs an identity change that no new signing can do alone to move the ratings needle anywhere. It would take a whole season or two of winning (with buzz around atmosphere and real sellouts) to change that.

Yes, winning is the only thing that will do it. Any other kind of identity change will just be more marketing from a huge corporation that likely won't resonate with people. But if the team wins no one cares how soulless the corp is behind the scenes.

mowe
04-07-2015, 08:55 AM
Following TFC is a character flaw in most households.

Haha ain't that the truth!

brad
04-07-2015, 09:12 AM
if you can't afford cable with the basic sports package (ie. TSN or SN) your one step away from a cardboard box

A very narrow viewpoint which is completely wrong.


Or you prefer to spend your money on something else.

Cord cutting isn't about being poor, its about personal choices.

Precisely.

Pookie
04-07-2015, 09:15 AM
Legal cord cutting isn't always the less expensive option when you factor in data, equipment and event costs.

C.Ronaldo
04-07-2015, 09:20 AM
Or you prefer to spend your money on something else.

Cord cutting isn't about being poor, its about personal choices.

yah, my household certainly isnt poor, we just find no need for cable. We never watched it when we had it. rather donate it than burn it

C.Ronaldo
04-07-2015, 09:24 AM
Legal cord cutting isn't always the less expensive option when you factor in data, equipment and event costs.

maybe not in Canada, but eventually it will have to be

if you live in the states
mls live + netflix + Sling (cable service over an app, http://www.cnet.com/news/sling-tv-everything-you-need-to-know/)
and if you want the good stuff, + HBO GO
all that on amazon fire tv

100% legal, better, and cheaper than cable

not to mention their antenna channel selection and quantity is superior to ours,

Qman
04-07-2015, 09:41 AM
I don't think soccer viewing is intrinsically younger than other sports. The BMO crowd is mostly suits and families, away from the south end. I could see that argument for basketball though. That is a younger, hipper crowd at the ACC.

MLS being a minor league is part of it, but TFC especially is a complete joke to most casual fans.

I don't think any of us here want to wallow in the depth of that. Most people have to practically apologize for watching or going to the games! Following TFC is a character flaw in most households.

The team needs an identity change that no new signing can do alone to move the ratings needle anywhere. It would take a whole season or two of winning (with buzz around atmosphere and real sellouts) to change that.


The live event crowd is younger than the that TV audience. also i'm in 107 and i find most of the people in the seats aren't the seatholders, they just got free tix given to them and just decided to go, that might affect the numbers because the people in the seats are the ones with the $$$.

I find hardcore footy fans won't even sniff at TFC. They will watch EPL, champions league, even the ethiopian league on GOLTV, but they don't consider TFC football.

Carts
04-07-2015, 12:58 PM
interesting that most of the viewers are 35-49 yrs old. And 40% are female. people in my section seem younger and not alot of women.

still numbers are so low and pathetic that you cant read too much into it. Got to hand it to MLSE they've put the money into the Stadium despite getting no traction on interest level. Maybe some of that money would have been better spent on marketing.

They're not as bad as people think.

A prime time Raptors game against a marquee opponent drew under 150,000. The $$$ cost for rights and production is much, much, much higher.

To get 90,000 mid day during a long weekend, on a secondary channel is quite strong.

If it was on a major network (on all TSN 1/3/4/5 or all SNet On/Pac/Est/Wst) you can add 50,000 or more just with that.

I know people compare it to NHL, Curling, CFL, Jays - but in truth, the numbers have been strong (always blips and dips for sure) and growing over the long haul.

Liverpool vs ManU did over 350,000 on TSN (1/3/4/5) at 9:30am on a Saturday - marquee match at a non-marquee time. The audiences for footy are growing - they take time - but they are growing and feedback/thoughts are positive within the industry.

Carts...

Heepster
04-09-2015, 12:21 PM
The reality is that TV ratings are becoming increasingly less significant, and that's not just some isolated Toronto-centric guess or opinion. The purpose of TV ratings is to set advertising rates, and advertisers generally prefer to target audiences younger than the people who still respond to TV ratings surveys. Digital advertising has already surpassed TV in Canada, and is continuing to increase while TV advertising decreases. The median age of CBS viewers in the U.S. is 58.7 years old and going up.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-digital/innovation/digital-surpasses-print-tv-and-radio-for-largest-share-of-ad-spend-in-canada/article20764831/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2014/09/05/tv-is-increasingly-for-old-people/
http://www.businessinsider.com/tv-vs-mobile-and-digital-in-ad-revenue-and-audience-share-2014-12#ixzz3LhL5M3RB
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nielsen-ratings-data-shows-big-tv-decline-due-to-streaming-video-1.2944432

Not only do younger people watch less of the old-fashioned TV channels, but Numeris now has to advertise to encourage people to participate in their surveys.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/numeris-is-calling-but-canadians-need-more-information-about-tv-ratings/article22838581/

"To assemble the panels, Numeris needs to call people at home, ask them a few questions and invite them to participate."
Think about that. It's 2015 -- who still answers phone calls from unrecognized numbers, or even still has a home phone? Is it any wonder that it's things like curling that still do well in TV ratings?

OgtheDim
04-09-2015, 12:31 PM
Interesting.

Numeris has been doing ads on 102.1 (i.e. 30 - 50 year old land) for months begging for people to answer the phones when they call.

C.Ronaldo
04-09-2015, 12:41 PM
its im no expert, but I imagine product placement is becoming increasingly important for TV and audiences that have gotten use to commerical free viewing
shirt sponsors in soccer, microsoft phones in house of cards, McDs cofee mugs one one of those talent shows, etc

Qman
04-09-2015, 01:28 PM
Interesting.

Numeris has been doing ads on 102.1 (i.e. 30 - 50 year old land) for months begging for people to answer the phones when they call.


That has nothing to do with TV ratings. Thats another part of their business.



TV ratings are done with PPMs across the country. They are pagers that people wear that catch a signal in Canadian TV signals whether your at the mall, gym, streaming on computer, watching PVRs or live TV. You have to wear them all the time. Everything is tracked. If you don't wear it for 15 minutes during the day, you'll get a call to make sure your wear your pager.

TFC07
04-09-2015, 02:37 PM
That has nothing to do with TV ratings. Thats another part of their business.



TV ratings are done with PPMs across the country. They are pagers that people wear that catch a signal in Canadian TV signals whether your at the mall, gym, streaming on computer, watching PVRs or live TV. You have to wear them all the time. Everything is tracked. If you don't wear it for 15 minutes during the day, you'll get a call to make sure your wear your pager.

Okay, but point stands that younger population don't watch TV as much as old generation to a point that we got BBM (or whatever they're calling themselves these days) trying to get younger crowd to participate to do their surveys.

Reality is that TV ratings is becoming less relevant and advertisers are invest in more into online ads than ever before to target younger generation.

In the long term, Cable TV will become what landline phone is right now. Cable TV will be there, but less relevant since a lot more people will be watching their shows/sports through internet/mobile device. This is why we're seeing telecommunication companies offering unlimited Canada wide-calling and texting while reducing data today unlike decade ago where it was other way around (limited talk minutes and texts while offering a lot of data).

mr k
04-09-2015, 02:45 PM
Easter weekend ratings for MLS were #31. Caps vs Galaxy at 109k and #34. TFC vs Fire at 90k. Top rated football match was #25. Liverpool vs Arsenal at 176k which had the early Saturday 730am slot.

NHL & curling continue to dominate with Jays coming on strong.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--the-latest-tv-numbers-143005264.html

Pookie
04-09-2015, 03:41 PM
Is it any wonder that it's things like curling that still do well in TV ratings?

It's a really interesting question. David Foote, "Boom, Bust and Echo" would likely say that this isn't surprising as demographics explains 2/3 of everything. In this case, there are more people in the older cohort than younger. More boomers than Milleniums. You'll find that sports that appeal to a "younger" audience (under 30) will naturally face declining pressures as there simply are fewer people in that cohort.

If on average 20% of the population likes something… 20% of 100,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. Simple numbers would suggest declines.

Another question for the cord cutters and x-box generation… are they as interested in sport as their parents were? Maybe in addition to fewer people in the age group, the interest in sport may be in decline.

Stats Canada backs that up. 66% of boys aged 5-14 participated in sport in 1992. That declined to 56% in 2005. (Girls went from 49% to 45%). I wonder where we are 10 years later. Childhood obesity is increasing. Maybe the Millennium generation just isn't as active and/or interested in sport.

Add the Boom, Bust and Echo to the decline in participation rates and you have an explanation, beyond cable vs device, as to why TV ratings for sport in general are on the decline.

Beach_Red
04-09-2015, 03:49 PM
It's a really interesting question. David Foote, "Boom, Bust and Echo" would likely say that this isn't surprising as demographics explains 2/3 of everything. In this case, there are more people in the older cohort than younger. More boomers than Milleniums. You'll find that sports that appeal to a "younger" audience (under 30) will naturally face declining pressures as there simply are fewer people in that cohort.

If on average 20% of the population likes something… 20% of 100,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. Simple numbers would suggest declines.

Another question for the cord cutters and x-box generation… are they as interested in sport as their parents were? Maybe in addition to fewer people in the age group, the interest in sport may be in decline.

Stats Canada backs that up. 66% of boys aged 5-14 participated in sport in 1992. That declined to 56% in 2005. (Girls went from 49% to 45%). I wonder where we are 10 years later. Childhood obesity is increasing. Maybe the Millennium generation just isn't as active and/or interested in sport.

Add the Boom, Bust and Echo to the decline in participation rates and you have an explanation, beyond cable vs device, as to why TV ratings for sport in general are on the decline.

Although there is a difference between participating in a sport as a youth and paying to watch a professional sport as an adult, there's probably enough of a connection to support this.

The big issue for MLSE and companies like them will be how do they get people to pay to watch sports? Especially non 'best in the world' sports.

Qman
04-09-2015, 05:46 PM
Okay, but point stands that younger population don't watch TV as much as old generation to a point that we got BBM (or whatever they're calling themselves these days) trying to get younger crowd to participate to do their surveys.

Reality is that TV ratings is becoming less relevant and advertisers are invest in more into online ads than ever before to target younger generation.

In the long term, Cable TV will become what landline phone is right now. Cable TV will be there, but less relevant since a lot more people will be watching their shows/sports through internet/mobile device. This is why we're seeing telecommunication companies offering unlimited Canada wide-calling and texting while reducing data today unlike decade ago where it was other way around (limited talk minutes and texts while offering a lot of data).


right now streamers are extremely low number of viewers. but your right, in the future, streaming could become more relevant. MLB has the biggest potential with games during the day (when most work) and lots and lots of games.

Qman
04-09-2015, 05:52 PM
Liverpool vs ManU did over 350,000 on TSN (1/3/4/5) at 9:30am on a Saturday - marquee match at a non-marquee time. The audiences for footy are growing - they take time - but they are growing and feedback/thoughts are positive within the industry.

Carts...

problem with this is alot of these viewers, won't watch MLS and think its shit.

If you can get almost every premiership game every week, all these footy fans bypass MLS totally. Thats got to be a big concern for MLSE.

Heepster
04-09-2015, 05:59 PM
That has nothing to do with TV ratings. Thats another part of their business.
TV ratings are done with PPMs across the country...What? Of course it has something to do with TV ratings. As the article describes, they first have to call people to get them to agree to do it. They don't have squads of enforcers roaming Canada and tackling randomly selected people they force to wear a ppm whether they want to or not.
And, what they avoided mentioning in the article is how much of it is still done by asking people to fill out and return diaries by mail, as they've been doing for decades. Someone I know did it just last October, although only for radio according to him, and then a couple of weeks later they sent him a pointless and annoying 70-page survey to be completed. He said he made the mistake of answering his phone in the first place only because he was expecting a call from a relative.

brad
04-09-2015, 07:24 PM
Although there is a difference between participating in a sport as a youth and paying to watch a professional sport as an adult, there's probably enough of a connection to support this.

The big issue for MLSE and companies like them will be how do they get people to pay to watch sports? Especially non 'best in the world' sports.

I don't think participation in sport has much impact on viewership. They are two very different things.

I would hazard a guess that participation is on the decline because of the rise of video games - kids would rather play FIFA or NHL on their Xbox than play an actual sport.

MLSE have had a problem so far getting people to pay to watch sports. Despite the ups and downs (err downs) that TFC have had people still go. As long as people are buying their Leafs seasons they will be happy

Qman
04-09-2015, 09:00 PM
What? Of course it has something to do with TV ratings. As the article describes, they first have to call people to get them to agree to do it. They don't have squads of enforcers roaming Canada and tackling randomly selected people they force to wear a ppm whether they want to or not.
And, what they avoided mentioning in the article is how much of it is still done by asking people to fill out and return diaries by mail, as they've been doing for decades. Someone I know did it just last October, although only for radio according to him, and then a couple of weeks later they sent him a pointless and annoying 70-page survey to be completed. He said he made the mistake of answering his phone in the first place only because he was expecting a call from a relative.


the article has lots of fuckups in it. The call people primarily for the focus group business - why don't you have cable, how have your viewing habits changed, view on advertising, that shit. PPM users are random and represent all parts of society - social economic, age, region, etc

The diaries haven't been done for years and years for TV. It just radio.

Heepster
04-09-2015, 09:21 PM
... PPM users are random ... Please explain how you think they get people to do this if you don't think they have to first call them and get them to answer and agree to participate.
... The diaries haven't been done for years and years for TV. It just radio.Really now? Odd that the Numeris (the name they just adopted in June 2014, less than a year ago) website has instructions for people on how to fill out their TV ratings diaries if they haven't existed for "years and years".
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/tv-diary

Qman
04-09-2015, 11:26 PM
Please explain how you think they get people to do this if you don't think they have to first call them and get them to answer and agree to participate.Really now? Odd that the Numeris (the name they just adopted in June 2014, less than a year ago) website has instructions for people on how to fill out their TV ratings diaries if they haven't existed for "years and years".
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/tv-diary

PPM data is used for the ratings. Overnight/fast numbers come out one-two days later. You can't do TV diaries in two days. Switched to PPMs over 5-7 years ago. TV diaries aren't done for ratings, they do it more information on viewing habbits. bbm's website is worth shit -- its the last place you should look.

Heepster
04-09-2015, 11:40 PM
Uh, yeah, I guess their own website is just full of completely fabricated stuff about themselves.
And you still didn't answer the question about how you think they get people to participate if you don't think they have to call them first.

C.Ronaldo
04-10-2015, 09:16 AM
It's a really interesting question. David Foote, "Boom, Bust and Echo" would likely say that this isn't surprising as demographics explains 2/3 of everything. In this case, there are more people in the older cohort than younger. More boomers than Milleniums. You'll find that sports that appeal to a "younger" audience (under 30) will naturally face declining pressures as there simply are fewer people in that cohort.

If on average 20% of the population likes something… 20% of 100,000 is more than 20% of 10,000. Simple numbers would suggest declines.

Another question for the cord cutters and x-box generation… are they as interested in sport as their parents were? Maybe in addition to fewer people in the age group, the interest in sport may be in decline.

Stats Canada backs that up. 66% of boys aged 5-14 participated in sport in 1992. That declined to 56% in 2005. (Girls went from 49% to 45%). I wonder where we are 10 years later. Childhood obesity is increasing. Maybe the Millennium generation just isn't as active and/or interested in sport.

Add the Boom, Bust and Echo to the decline in participation rates and you have an explanation, beyond cable vs device, as to why TV ratings for sport in general are on the decline.

Old man rant time!!!!

i dont think obeisity is the only problem, we have a whole geenration of male and female that think the skinny look (not to be confused with fit) is cool. I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, but hipsterism is killing society

We have a generation of girls that think a 6ft, 95lb male is attractive. And the same with males thinking skinny females is sexy. (obviously female skinny is an older problem)

TravelPat
04-28-2015, 10:16 PM
Maybe TFC's numbers will pickup for the home opener - but this past Sunday night (up against hockey and the Raptors) the TFC game only drew 48,000 viewers in Canada. I haven't seen what the game got on Fox Sports 1 in the USA but they've laid some real rating eggs down there with their Sunday at 7:00PM games. The previous Sunday NYCFC and Portland attracted only 33,000 viewers on Fox Sports 1 across the USA. That's just plain brutal.

At some point these TV numbers have to start going up or else the MLS will have a real problem on its hands.

Supporting
04-28-2015, 10:29 PM
Maybe TFC's numbers will pickup for the home opener - but this past Sunday night (up against hockey and the Raptors) the TFC game only drew 48,000 viewers in Canada. I haven't seen what the game got on Fox Sports 1 in the USA but they've laid some real rating eggs down there with their Sunday at 7:00PM games. The previous Sunday NYCFC and Portland attracted only 33,000 viewers on Fox Sports 1 across the USA. That's just plain brutal.

At some point these TV numbers have to start going up or else the MLS will have a real problem on its hands.

Attendance driven league though....

TFC07
04-28-2015, 11:45 PM
TV numbers is league wide problem.

TFC shouldn't be judge harshly on low TV ratings alone. Only way I could see better TV ratings for TFC is they start winning with style and/or quality of play improves to a point that they look like a major European club.

jabbronies
04-29-2015, 12:26 AM
Question - Does anyone think that if TFC ratings would be better if they played on a main station (TSN or Sportsnet not TSN2 or TSN3 or Sportsnet world) and at times that hockey does well with - Saturday 7pm/8pm?

Qman
04-29-2015, 01:08 AM
Question - Does anyone think that if TFC ratings would be better if they played on a main station (TSN or Sportsnet not TSN2 or TSN3 or Sportsnet world) and at times that hockey does well with - Saturday 7pm/8pm?


they stop putting most games on the main stations last few years because the ratings are so bad, even the whitecaps games have moved over this year to some extent (despite being walking bell ads)

GuelphStorm2007
04-29-2015, 01:34 AM
it was hard for tfc to compete with the Montreal v Ottawa nhl playoff game and the Raptors game all going on at the same time. So 50000 is pretty much what I expect. But I hear TV ratngs are a league wide concern...

Areathrasher
04-29-2015, 08:04 AM
Maybe TFC's numbers will pickup for the home opener - but this past Sunday night (up against hockey and the Raptors) the TFC game only drew 48,000 viewers in Canada. I haven't seen what the game got on Fox Sports 1 in the USA but they've laid some real rating eggs down there with their Sunday at 7:00PM games. The previous Sunday NYCFC and Portland attracted only 33,000 viewers on Fox Sports 1 across the USA. That's just plain brutal.

At some point these TV numbers have to start going up or else the MLS will have a real problem on its hands.

It was supposed to be on Fox Sports 1 but a rain delay NASCAR race forced it on to Fox Sports 2, which a lot of people don't have apparently.

Orlando TFC got 190k viewers on FS1 IIRC.

ensco
04-29-2015, 08:15 AM
I am amazed that game got 48,000. If the Raptors weren't losing 3-0 it would have been 8,000.

brad
04-29-2015, 10:23 AM
Question - Does anyone think that if TFC ratings would be better if they played on a main station (TSN or Sportsnet not TSN2 or TSN3 or Sportsnet world) and at times that hockey does well with - Saturday 7pm/8pm?

Yes, I think they would be better. I still don't think they would be good, but better.

TFC07
05-05-2015, 09:23 PM
TFC got 75,000 viewers on TSN4 (aka TSN's Southern Ontario channel) which is great for regional ratings for MLS. Vancouver on national tv (their game was on all TSN channels) was only 110K which isn't that great if you compare it to TFC.

Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--connor-mcdavid--nhl-free-night-boost-chl-fortunes-134818498.html

Based on TV numbers, TFC isn't doing that bad despite being on the road for first couple of months. TFC's home opener hopefully be north of 150K viewers!

Pint
05-06-2015, 12:24 AM
TFC got 75,000 viewers on TSN4 (aka TSN's Southern Ontario channel) which is great for regional ratings for MLS. Vancouver on national tv (their game was on all TSN channels) was only 110K which isn't that great if you compare it to TFC.

Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--connor-mcdavid--nhl-free-night-boost-chl-fortunes-134818498.html

Based on TV numbers, TFC isn't doing that bad despite being on the road for first couple of months. TFC's home opener hopefully be north of 150K viewers!

If this was Vancouver vs Portland it was up against the biggest fight of the century.

Pookie
05-06-2015, 06:30 AM
150k for the home opener would be a disappointment. With the cache of the opener, no Leafs, Raptors, and a new stadium buzz they should be able to crack 300k.

It it will drop off like a lead balloon a few weeks later but this should be a good weekend for viewers.

Areathrasher
05-06-2015, 07:34 AM
150k for the home opener would be a disappointment. With the cache of the opener, no Leafs, Raptors, and a new stadium buzz they should be able to crack 300k.

It it will drop off like a lead balloon a few weeks later but this should be a good weekend for viewers.

Good weather and Mothers day. Wouldn't be so sure.

Pookie
05-06-2015, 09:51 AM
Good weather and Mothers day. Wouldn't be so sure.

Well, supposedly it will be full despite the good weather and Mother's Day. (Even if it isn't they will say it is). I think they will comfortably get in the range of 250k to +300k.

If a team owned by two media companies with investment in a new stadium can't generate the same amount of interest in the opener from last year, then there is a problem.

dupont
05-06-2015, 10:06 AM
Well, supposedly it will be full despite the good weather and Mother's Day. (Even if it isn't they will say it is). I think they will comfortably get in the range of 250k to +300k.

If a team owned by two media companies with investment in a new stadium can't generate the same amount of interest in the opener from last year, then there is a problem.

They might be able to but don't forget that they did a good job hyping up Defoe last year with ad campaigns.

Pookie
05-06-2015, 10:13 AM
^ true.

New stadiums have a cache though. People may tune in just to see it. And supposedly they have a buzz going with Giovinco in certain demographics.

Qman
05-12-2015, 07:17 PM
193,000 on tsn watched that pathetic effort vs Houston. .... largest audience in a while ... maybe it was CFL fans checking out the new stadium

Areathrasher
05-12-2015, 07:19 PM
193,000 watched that pathetic effort vs Houston. .... largest audience in a while ... maybe it was CFL fans checking out the new stadium

That the US ESPN figure or TSN?

Qman
05-12-2015, 07:24 PM
TSN, no cares about the 10 people that watched ESPN. This is canada ... only care about interest level here where it matters

Areathrasher
05-12-2015, 07:29 PM
TSN, no cares about the 10 people that watched ESPN. This is canada ... only care about interest level here where it matters

What's with the attitute?

I only asked as I hadn't seen the TSN number reported anywhere and the ESPN number was very similar.

Pint
05-12-2015, 07:44 PM
What's with the attitute?

I only asked as I hadn't seen the TSN number reported anywhere and the ESPN number was very similar.

I'm guess it was a sarcastic shot at cfl fans and their love for Canadian tv numbers

Pookie
05-12-2015, 09:23 PM
193k surprised me. TSN did over 300k for the opener last year. Without a calculator that's a dip nearing 40%.

I guess the Defoe signing was a big deal.

CBTFC
05-12-2015, 09:29 PM
I guess the Defoe signing was a big deal.

No...it was a BLOODY BIG DEAL!!!

(sorry couldnt' resist)

habstfc
05-12-2015, 09:32 PM
I think it has more to do with the weather and mother's day than anything else. People were arriving 30 minutes into the game in my section. I heard several talking about getting a late start because of mother's day.

TravelPat
05-13-2015, 11:03 PM
Oddly enough I think the TFC game got hurt by at least a bit by an exciting golf tournament. (I know exciting and golf in the same sentence is an oxymoron to some - lol).

The last few holes of regulation and the playoff holes of the TPC was trending on Twitter during the TFC game and drew an average of over 570,000 viewers over the almost six hours it was on Global (from 2 - 8) with the audience growing late in regulation and playoff to over 800,000 in the late going. That is a huge rating for golf. Same in the USA where on NBC it was the third highest golf rating of the last year on any American network for any golf tournament.

FYI - the ESPN2 number in the USA for the Houston - TFC game was 177,000. So TSN and ESPN2 combined for 370,000 for the game.

SoccMan2
06-25-2015, 08:20 PM
I was not able to attend the TFC/Impact game last night I had my own game to attend and coach, while driving to my game which started at 9 P.M. I turn on my radio to listen to the game on my way to my game. I tuned into the Fan 590 the game was not on I switched over to TSN 1050 the TFC game was not on there either, I had to go to my phone where I have the Montreal TSN radio affiliate App on my phone and found the game on there on the Montreal radio station who do all the Impact games home and away, so my question is what happened to the TFC games on local Toronto radio? TFC games were broadcast on either the Fan 590 or TSN 1050 in seasons past how come no more TFC games on radio in Toronto anymore, Montreal gets their games on the radio why not TFC anymore, kind of sad when you consider this team is owned by two media giants and yet they have none of their games on radio anymore.

portu
06-25-2015, 08:25 PM
I was not able to attend the TFC/Impact game last night I had my own game to attend and coach, while driving to my game which started at 9 P.M. I turn on my radio to listen to the game on my way to my game. I tuned into the Fan 590 the game was not on I switched over to TSN 1050 the TFC game was not on there either, I had to go to my phone where I have the Montreal TSN radio affiliate App on my phone and found the game on there on the Montreal radio station who do all the Impact games home and away, so my question is what happened to the TFC games on local Toronto radio? TFC games were broadcast on either the Fan 590 or TSN 1050 in seasons past how come no more TFC games on radio in Toronto anymore, Montreal gets their games on the radio why not TFC anymore, kind of sad when you consider this team is owned by two media giants and yet they have none of their games on radio anymore.
This^

its pathetic that I turn on the radio station of the company that's doing the game and instead of postgame I hear about the leafs offseason strategy

OgtheDim
06-25-2015, 09:32 PM
Sports talk radio is cheaper then live sports commentary.

To be fair TSN does do an occassional TFC game, and they are doing all the WWC Canada matches.

But when you can stream most stuff through your phone, why use a radio (yes, I know driving).

Pookie
06-25-2015, 09:46 PM
^ radios don't require a modem rental or data plan?

OgtheDim
06-25-2015, 09:49 PM
^ radios don't require a modem rental or data plan?

Internet at home is pretty much a given for most people and I don't know about you, but I watched at least 3 World Cup games last year over my phone (but I'm on Wind).

Pookie
06-28-2015, 06:38 PM
Internet at home is pretty much a given for most people and I don't know about you, but I watched at least 3 World Cup games last year over my phone (but I'm on Wind).

I have a 52" Sony HDTV and bifocals…. I'm not watching anything of importance on my stupid phone ;)

brad
06-28-2015, 09:41 PM
I have a 52" Sony HDTV and bifocals…. I'm not watching anything of importance on my stupid phone ;)

I've watched the odd game on my phone when I've been away from home, but no way am I watching a game on there by choice.

Digressing, what are ratings looking like these days?

shwade
06-29-2015, 07:18 AM
Any numbers for the last few games?

Edit: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--women-s-soccer-continues-to-set-records-191330037.html

Not in the top 12 but good news for women's soccer I guess?

Carts
06-29-2015, 02:51 PM
Saturday's Match: 74,000 (SportsNet360)

TravelPat
08-05-2015, 07:37 PM
Sadly TFC only could draw 74,000 again this past weekend to Sportsnet 360.

The Jays are killing everything in sight


https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--blue-jays-trades-paying-off-already-on-television-202806158.html



Here are the most-watched English-language sports events from the past weekend, according to Numeris overnight ratings:



1. MLB, Twins at Blue Jays, Monday, Sportsnet: 1,390,000


2. MLB, Royals at Blue Jays, Friday, Sportsnet: 1,080,000


3. MLB, Royals at Blue Jays, Sunday, Sportsnet: 997,000


4. MLB, Royals at Blue Jays, Saturday, Sportsnet: 981,000


5. CFL, Roughriders at Eskimos, Friday, TSN: 600,000


6. CFL, Argonauts at Tiger-Cats, Monday, TSN: 558,000


7. CFL, Alouettes at Stampeders, Saturday, TSN: 538,000


8. Auto racing, NASCAR Windows 400, Sunday, TSN: 329,000


9. MMA, UFC 190 preliminaries, Saturday, TSN: 194,000


10. MLB, Angels at Dodgers, Saturday, Sportsnet: 170,000


11. Hockey, World Jr. Summer Showdown, Canada vs. Russia, Monday, TSN: 163,000


12. MLB, Nationals at Mets, Sunday, TSN: 155,000


13. PGA, Quicken Loans National third round, Saturday, TSN: 146,000 (CBS viewers not measured)


13. Rugby, Pacific Nations Cup, Canada vs. U.S., Monday, TSN: 146,000


15. MLB, Angels at Dodgers, Friday, Sportsnet: 141,000


16. MLS, Whitecaps at Seattle, Saturday, TSN: 129,000


17. PGA Quicken Loans National final round, Sunday, TSN: 87,000 (CBS viewers not measured)


18. MLS, Toronto FC at New England, Saturday, Sportsnet 360: 74,000

HeyToronto
08-07-2015, 10:14 AM
Saturday's Match: 74,000 (SportsNet360)

They don't make it easy though putting it on 360 which not a lot of people get but put generic baseball games on several sports nets channels.

Qman
08-08-2015, 12:08 AM
everyone gets 360, its the old thescore, which is a CRTC mandatory station that is carried by all cable companies.

we have been drawing basically the same crappy numbers all season.
Not alot of people care right now other than core diehards We have to get people more interested. TSN is pumping the games and MLSE is advertising more now.

For now, just be happy that we are owned by TSN/SN or the games wouldn't even be on tv given the ratings.

ensco
08-08-2015, 12:16 AM
Jays numbers have tripled since the trades.

That TFC number would have been 23K a year ago. It's baby steps forward.

Qman
08-08-2015, 12:33 AM
i don't think they got quite that low "on average" ... some games yes

ensco
08-08-2015, 12:39 AM
Saturday night, in the summer, on 360 .. I think they got 18K at Houston in that exact setup last year.

TFC07
08-08-2015, 12:45 AM
everyone gets 360, its the old thescore, which is a CRTC mandatory station that is carried by all cable companies.

we have been drawing basically the same crappy numbers all season.
Not alot of people care right now other than core diehards We have to get people more interested. TSN is pumping the games and MLSE is advertising more now.

For now, just be happy that we are owned by TSN/SN or the games wouldn't even be on tv given the ratings.

Umm no. TSN and SN need as much of content as possible to gain subscribers especially amount of channels they have now. Running reruns of old NHL games and sportscentre/connected isn't going to do much.

BTW: TFC have been doing better on TV this year compare to last year.

Not everyone has Sportsnet 360 (number of subscribers for that channel is only 5.8 million which is close to 3 million less than Sportsnet main channels). I am sure TSN has more subscribers than Sportsnet, so yeah, not everyone has Sportsnet 360. So TV ratings will take a hit being on Sportsnet 360 instead of main Sportsnet channel or TSN (main channel).

Qman
08-08-2015, 01:41 AM
Umm no. TSN and SN need as much of content as possible to gain subscribers especially amount of channels they have now. Running reruns of old NHL games and sportscentre/connected isn't going to do much.

BTW: TFC have been doing better on TV this year compare to last year.

Not everyone has Sportsnet 360 (number of subscribers for that channel is only 5.8 million which is close to 3 million less than Sportsnet main channels). I am sure TSN has more subscribers than Sportsnet, so yeah, not everyone has Sportsnet 360. So TV ratings will take a hit being on Sportsnet 360 instead of main Sportsnet channel or TSN (main channel).

as has been pointed out, the could put reruns of lumberjacks sports or poker and draw more viewers.
Thank god every weekend TFC is owned by TSN & SN.
Recently heard that Vancouver are paying to get on TSN (covering half the loses)

TFC1154ever
08-08-2015, 11:18 AM
I know I don't get sportsnet 360 on my Bell basic cable.

SoccMan2
08-08-2015, 12:03 PM
Ok I realize that TFC and MLS soccer are not getting great ratings, however, I'm pretty sure they get better ratings then poker or lumberjack competitions I think unless someone has the numbers to prove me wrong. Moreover, the amount of press TFC gets in the Toronto media is very inconsistent, for example in the Toronto Sun which is available at my workplace everyday I notice that the Argos and the CFL have about two pages of coverage every day whereas TFC might get coverage once a week when they don't have a game, and get something on game days and after a game, however, the Argos have a page or two everyday it's not even close in the Sun the Argos I would say get so much more coverage in this particulay paper than TFC.

Qman
08-08-2015, 01:20 PM
Ok I realize that TFC and MLS soccer are not getting great ratings, however, I'm pretty sure they get better ratings then poker or lumberjack competitions I think unless someone has the numbers to prove me wrong. Moreover, the amount of press TFC gets in the Toronto media is very inconsistent, for example in the Toronto Sun which is available at my workplace everyday I notice that the Argos and the CFL have about two pages of coverage every day whereas TFC might get coverage once a week when they don't have a game, and get something on game days and after a game, however, the Argos have a page or two everyday it's not even close in the Sun the Argos I would say get so much more coverage in this particulay paper than TFC.


A local sports television reporter made that now infamous "lumbersports" comment last year.

I think larson does a good job for the sun. he uses tech (twitter, etc) alot ... i don't think many people read the actual paper anymore. He is a bit of a dicky dunn for the organization, but still provides good info

TravelPat
08-09-2015, 01:44 PM
What's scarier to me even more so than our lousy TV numbers are that MLS still struggles on ESPN/ESPN2. Last weekend CFL games outdrew the MLS on ESPN2. A BC @ Winnipeg game drew 201,000 viewers on ESPN2 whereas the featured Sunday evening ESPN2 San Jose vs. Portland game could only draw 168,000 viewers nationally in the USA. That's not good.

TFC07
08-09-2015, 01:59 PM
as has been pointed out, the could put reruns of lumberjacks sports or poker and draw more viewers.
Thank god every weekend TFC is owned by TSN & SN.
Recently heard that Vancouver are paying to get on TSN (covering half the loses)

Again, I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but this year TFC have been doing a lot better on TV side of things. They don't get 20K or less like lumberjack or poker shows.

Where did you hear about Vancouver paying to get on TSN? TSN has Canadian MLS rights and they're owned by Bell (you know, Vancouver's main sponsor). So I fail to see why Vancouver needs to pay to get on TSN.

jloome
08-09-2015, 02:43 PM
everyone gets 360, its the old thescore, which is a CRTC mandatory station that is carried by all cable companies.

we have been drawing basically the same crappy numbers all season.
Not alot of people care right now other than core diehards We have to get people more interested. TSN is pumping the games and MLSE is advertising more now.

For now, just be happy that we are owned by TSN/SN or the games wouldn't even be on tv given the ratings.

Nope. Telus doesn't even carry sports on its western Canadian packages unless you buy a separate tier. It certainly isn't mandatory.

Qman
08-09-2015, 02:48 PM
Its two deals: TSN has the national MLS rights and local VWFC rights.

National deal: TSN/MLS is a profit sharing deal but their are no profits since the games get sub-profitbable ratings and have significant productions costs.
Local deal: SN walked from previous local deal with VWFC (this was when SN got NHL rights and was cutting all non-profitable programming and reduced headcount), TSN stepped in so the games would continue to be on TV (I'm sure Bell's sponsorship also contributed to them stepping in). My understanding is VWFC pays for some of the production costs.
Also, note that TSN can't generate any significant revenue from the games since there are no commercials until halftime. Whereas, all other programming has commercials. So you have low ratings, high fixed production costs, and no commercials, its really hard for broadcasters to make any money. Due to high production costs for sporting events, you have to be in 150-200,000 range WITH COMMERCIALS to start making money in canada.

Qman
08-09-2015, 03:07 PM
Nope. Telus doesn't even carry sports on its western Canadian packages unless you buy a separate tier. It certainly isn't mandatory.

Sorry, to be clear, i was comparing the theScore (which was a CRTC mandated channel) to the nextgen channels like (lifetime, H2, ACTION, MTV, etc). Because of this, theScore probably in 5+million homes which is still huge... but yes not as many as TSN.

TFC07
08-09-2015, 04:03 PM
Its two deals: TSN has the national MLS rights and local VWFC rights.

National deal: TSN/MLS is a profit sharing deal but their are no profits since the games get sub-profitbable ratings and have significant productions costs.
Local deal: SN walked from previous local deal with VWFC (this was when SN got NHL rights and was cutting all non-profitable programming and reduced headcount), TSN stepped in so the games would continue to be on TV (I'm sure Bell's sponsorship also contributed to them stepping in). My understanding is VWFC pays for some of the production costs.
Also, note that TSN can't generate any significant revenue from the games since there are no commercials until halftime. Whereas, all other programming has commercials. So you have low ratings, high fixed production costs, and no commercials, its really hard for broadcasters to make any money. Due to high production costs for sporting events, you have to be in 150-200,000 range WITH COMMERCIALS to start making money in canada.

So why doesn't Rogers any problems to broadcast regional TFC games? Besides, don't networks share each other streams depending who's home team? So production cost isn't as high as you might it out to be if they're sharing cost with other networks.

Qman
08-09-2015, 09:51 PM
So why doesn't Rogers any problems to broadcast regional TFC games? Besides, don't networks share each other streams depending who's home team? So production cost isn't as high as you might it out to be if they're sharing cost with other networks.


Because Rogers owns a piece indirectly of TFC. Sportsnet is required to take 1/2 of the regional package. Obviously, Sportsnet is not thrilled with this because they are putting it on their bottom network SN360 and don't even promote it as many posters have noted on this thread.

Most networks will want their own cameras, equipment, truck and people. Ever been to a NHL game, u will usually see up to four cameras operating in the main camera bay doing the exact same main shot. However, I bet MLS tries to do do some feed sharing to save costs (in fact, i bet most regional package games in MLS are feed sharing ... another example of why the away sportsnet telecasts are so shitty compared with any TSN telecast)

TFC07
08-09-2015, 11:14 PM
Because Rogers owns a piece indirectly of TFC. Sportsnet is required to take 1/2 of the regional package. Obviously, Sportsnet is not thrilled with this because they are putting it on their bottom network SN360 and don't even promote it as many posters have noted on this thread.

What are you basing this on? Rogers not only partly own TFC, but they're also one of TFC's main sponsors while Bell who happens to own TFC, but they're main sponsor of Vancouver Whitecaps. Also, since when TSN/Bell have TFC regional TV rights? All TFC games on TSN are shown nationally not locally.


Most networks will want their own cameras, equipment, truck and people. Ever been to a NHL game, u will usually see up to four cameras operating in the main camera bay doing the exact same main shot. However, I bet MLS tries to do do some feed sharing to save costs (in fact, i bet most regional package games in MLS are feed sharing ... another example of why the away sportsnet telecasts are so shitty compared with any TSN telecast)

So it goes back to my original question, why would Vancouver pay TSN to show their regional games (especially their away games)?

We all know that TSN needs content badly in summer time since CFL don't play too many games (they play total of 82 games through out summer and fall months). So this is why TSN/Bell is investing in soccer a lot more these days (they got FIFA and UEFA rights now, but don't be surprise when TSN renew their MLS TV rights contract).

Areathrasher
08-10-2015, 08:11 AM
everyone gets 360, its the old thescore, which is a CRTC mandatory station that is carried by all cable companies.

Nope, I have a basic rogers package and only get the regular sportsnet channels and i've seemed to have had a free preview of Sportsnet one for like a year. No 360.

If a game is on 360 and i'm not at said game, i watch it on MLS Live.

Qman
08-10-2015, 04:24 PM
What are you basing this on? Rogers not only partly own TFC, but they're also one of TFC's main sponsors while Bell who happens to own TFC, but they're main sponsor of Vancouver Whitecaps. Also, since when TSN/Bell have TFC regional TV rights? All TFC games on TSN are shown nationally not locally.



So it goes back to my original question, why would Vancouver pay TSN to show their regional games (especially their away games)?

We all know that TSN needs content badly in summer time since CFL don't play too many games (they play total of 82 games through out summer and fall months). So this is why TSN/Bell is investing in soccer a lot more these days (they got FIFA and UEFA rights now, but don't be surprise when TSN renew their MLS TV rights contract).


When Rogers and Bell bought TD Capital's stake in MLSE, they have an agreement to split all the regional rights for all properties 50/50. so after the national package, the regional games 50% on SN and 50% on TSN. For TFC, TSN owns a national package, the rest of the games are regional games. The 3 cdn MLS have allowed there regional games to go national (no blackout like the NHL). That why you get some games on SN nationally.


Vancouver pays because the costs to put on these games is way higher than the revenue you generate (even on away games where you can grab a feed and fly in a small production & announcing team). your basically lessening TSN losses. TSN usually does way better with Sunday morning EPL, NASCAR and golf on saturday and sundays (no productions costs, right fees, far higher ratings).

TFC07
08-11-2015, 05:13 AM
When Rogers and Bell bought TD Capital's stake in MLSE, they have an agreement to split all the regional rights for all properties 50/50. so after the national package, the regional games 50% on SN and 50% on TSN. For TFC, TSN owns a national package, the rest of the games are regional games. The 3 cdn MLS have allowed there regional games to go national (no blackout like the NHL). That why you get some games on SN nationally.


Vancouver pays because the costs to put on these games is way higher than the revenue you generate (even on away games where you can grab a feed and fly in a small production & announcing team). your basically lessening TSN losses. TSN usually does way better with Sunday morning EPL, NASCAR and golf on saturday and sundays (no productions costs, right fees, far higher ratings).

But you still haven't told us where you hear this rumour from?

FYI: Rogers always show TFC games (they always had TFC TV regional rights) even before they bought part of MLSE.

Pookie
08-11-2015, 06:32 AM
The numbers indicate that the MLS game is still considered somewhat "fringe" in our area. That's fine though. Years ago we had GOLTV in Standard Definition or no coverage at all.

It's progress.

I'd be a little more concerned about the fact that they are in the playoff hunt, in terrific weather, with the MLS MVP and still aren't able to pack the house. Worse, it would look as though half that are attending aren't showing up until 30 mins or more into the game. Sort of an "event" feel rather than a passionate following by the masses.

The team itself is entertaining and should be a draw. IMO, MLS has image problems.

Red CB Toronto
08-11-2015, 07:14 AM
The numbers indicate that the MLS game is still considered somewhat "fringe" in our area. That's fine though. Years ago we had GOLTV in Standard Definition or no coverage at all.

It's progress.

I'd be a little more concerned about the fact that they are in the playoff hunt, in terrific weather, with the MLS MVP and still aren't able to pack the house. Worse, it would look as though half that are attending aren't showing up until 30 mins or more into the game. Sort of an "event" feel rather than a passionate following by the masses.

The team itself is entertaining and should be a draw. IMO, MLS has image problems.

A little thing called Blue Jays baseball has knocked down the Reds a few notches too in terms of exposure. Even after Seba was on fire last Wednesday, the coverage in the Toronto Sun was page 14. Lesser performances earlier this season even got the front of the sports page.

TravelPat
08-11-2015, 09:05 AM
Absolutely the Jays are hurting the numbers somewhat - but the number of no-shows at TFC games to me has always been concerning.

And the Jays are only going to dominate coverage even more moving forward making it even tougher for TFC (and the Argos) to garner attention. Last week from the holiday Monday through Sunday every one of the seven games the Jays played averaged OVER 1,000,000 viewers per game.

Attention on the Jays is so crazy right now it was even evident on the GO train ride into the TFC game Saturday full of mostly fans on the way to the TFC game. In the car I was in I overheard guys in TFC gear around me on the fairly packed train talking about the score in the Jays game. Then at one point somebody rather loudly said 'Jays have the bases loaded' and a murmur ran through the train. A few seconds later a guy loudly goes 'Yes!' and somebody else 'Grand Slam' and a bunch of people on the train applauded.

That frenzied attention (which reminds me of 1985 or 92 and 93) is only going to grow through the rest of the baseball season. Throw in the Babcock Leafs opening up training camp in September and games the first week of October - and TFC are going to virtually disappear. They needed to have garnered attention already - yet they haven't really. So now they are really in tough.

C.Ronaldo
08-11-2015, 09:47 AM
i know it wouldnt be much to bring it close to Jays numbers
but I would love to know MLS live numbers as well as teh hit count to the MLS page

Every TFC fan I know in person gets their game/highlights from the internet. I personally have never seen a via cable once TFC left CBC,

Richard
08-11-2015, 11:45 AM
i know it wouldnt be much to bring it close to Jays numbers
but I would love to know MLS live numbers as well as teh hit count to the MLS page

Every TFC fan I know in person gets their game/highlights from the internet. I personally have never seen a via cable once TFC left CBC,

This is very true, its getting harder to truly asses TV numbers with the internet existence, if I recall correctly I think the CBC used to draw over 100K regularly when they were hosting.

TFC07
08-11-2015, 06:51 PM
Kansas City at Toronto FC, Saturday, TSN: 112,000

Okay number given this game was frustrating to watch while starting of this game was going against Blue Jays vs Yankees game.

Pookie
08-12-2015, 06:38 AM
A little thing called Blue Jays baseball has knocked down the Reds a few notches too in terms of exposure. Even after Seba was on fire last Wednesday, the coverage in the Toronto Sun was page 14. Lesser performances earlier this season even got the front of the sports page.

Oh absolutely. But these empty seats in the summer were prevalent last year too before Defoe went back to England and while they were in a playoff hunt.

My theory is that the playoffs (and the ease with which to make it) dilute the importance of individual games and MLS in general is not viewed as top flight league. It becomes an "event" for most, much like a comedy show or movie. They will go if Beckham was there or Henry for the first time but not so much for San Jose.

With all of that said, TFC in the mainstream is progress.

Red CB Toronto
08-12-2015, 07:05 AM
Oh absolutely. But these empty seats in the summer were prevalent last year too before Defoe went back to England and while they were in a playoff hunt.

My theory is that the playoffs (and the ease with which to make it) dilute the importance of individual games and MLS in general is not viewed as top flight league. It becomes an "event" for most, much like a comedy show or movie. They will go if Beckham was there or Henry for the first time but not so much for San Jose.

With all of that said, TFC in the mainstream is progress.

26, 648 last week vs. Orlando is quite a good number in my eyes, now it dipped down to 24K on Saturday, but that is not surprising at this time of year when quite a number of people hit up cottage country on the weekend. That will keep people away from the stadium each and every time. It will be interesting down the stretch run as the Jays are burning it up how it goes in terms of exposure and coverage for the Reds. Last night at the dome was electric, amazing they were playing a last place club on a Tuesday night, brought me back to the division races of the late 80's early 90's when I went to a number of games including the World Series.

TravelPat
08-12-2015, 08:18 AM
Taking the glass half full approach looking at Toronto teams TV ratings last weekend - TFC have room for growth. lol

Jays 3 games in New York - 1,430,000, 1,290,000, 1,150,000 - top 3 spots of the TV sports ratings for the weekend.

Coming in at #4 - the soon to be BMO tenant Argos with 864,000 (highest CFL rating this seson)

Coming in at # 25 - TFC with 112,000 (and FYI the Jays game had finished before kick-off of the TFC game by about 3 or 4 minutes)

Here is the entire list for the weekend including Premier League games from the weekend - https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--jays--jays--jays-135310508.html

1. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees, Sunday, Sportsnet: 1,430,000

2. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees, Friday, Sportsnet: 1,290,000

3. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees, Saturday, Sportsnet: 1,150,000

4. CFL, Roughriders at Argonauts, Saturday, TSN: 864,000

5. CFL, Blue Bombers at Tiger-Cats, Sunday, TSN: 525,000

6. CFL, Alouettes at Redblacks, Friday, TSN: 446,000

7. Parapan Games, opening ceremonies, Friday, CBC: 356,000

8. Parapan Games, prime-time coverage, Saturday, CBC: 343,000

9. MLB, Orioles at Angels, Sunday, Sportsnet: 288,000

10. Parapan Games, afternoon coverage, Sunday, CBC: 286,000

11. Auto racing, NASCAR Cheez-It 355, Sunday, TSN: 265,000

12. PGA, Bridgestone Invitational final round, Sunday, Global: 257,000

13. Soccer, West Ham at Arsenal, Sunday, TSN: 211,000

14. Soccer, Swansea at Chelsea, Saturday, TSN: 185,000

15. MLS, Salt Lake at Vancouver, Sunday, TSN: 182,000

15. MLB, Dodgers at Pirates, Saturday, Sportsnet: 182,000

17. UFC, Teixeira vs. Saint Preux, Saturday, TSN: 180,000

18. PGA, Bridgestone Invitational third round, Saturday, Global: 162,000

19. Soccer, Tottenham at Manchester United, Saturday, Sportsnet: 161,000

20. NFL, Steelers vs. Vikings, Sunday, TSN: 153,000 (NBC viewers not measured)

21. Parapan Games, afternoon coverage, Saturday, CBC: 145,000

22. MLB, Orioles at Angels, Friday, Sportsnet: 131,000

23. Soccer, EPL games, Sunday, TSN: 127,000

24. Soccer, Aston Villa at Bournemouth, Saturday, Sportsnet: 117,000

25. MLS, Kansas City at Toronto FC, Saturday, TSN: 112,000

26. MLB, Orioles at Angels, Saturday, Sportsnet: 105,000

OgtheDim
08-12-2015, 08:59 AM
Riders are always a big TV draw, even if they havn't won a game yet. Those numbers are down for CFL over the past BTW.

TravelPat
08-12-2015, 09:31 AM
Og - I think there may have been a pretty significant Southern Ontario bump to reach 864,000 for that Argos home opener game since the previous two Saskatchewan games were only 600,000 and 549,000. But I suspect moving forward both the Argos and TFC are going to really struggle attracting attention as this Jays juggernaut grows. As another poster mentioned 39,000+ last night - a Tuesday night, over 40,000 expected again tonight and Thursday through Sunday's four games already 45,000+ sellouts now - with likely every one of those games drawing over one million TV viewers.

That's tough to compete with.

TFC07
08-12-2015, 09:37 AM
Riders are always a big TV draw, even if they havn't won a game yet. Those numbers are down for CFL over the past BTW.

Yup, I have notice CFL TV ratings and attendance (notice how CFL teams are downgrading their stadium capacity while MLS teams are increasing their seating capacity?) going downhill. Not only that, but CFL's fanbase is old and no one under 35 cares about CFL. They will eventually going to be dealing with crisis in few years. TFC/MLS in the other hand, they're doing much better with attendance and getting younger people interested in their product. The only down side for TFC/MLS is TV ratings (but then again, TV ratings are becoming less relevant due to a lot of people getting rid of cable in favour online viewing). CFL TV ratings are doing great (despite decline) because all old people still have their cable.

OgtheDim
08-12-2015, 10:06 AM
TravelPat - I'd call that a southern Ontario Sask fan bump more then anything else. Probably hoping for a win. :) Argos are barely noticed right now. They got only 20642 to their home opener against the Riders - that is pathetic for a home opener against the #1 draw (Rider games usually outdraw Ticats unless its a playoff).


One little demographic note:

Baseball is the big 18-30 juggernaut right now. Has been for a number of years, actually. If you went to a Jays game in the last 2 years on the weekend, its a very young crowd, with a lot of women. The 500 level was pheromone filled the few games I went. :)
TFC skews kinda all over the map demographically, but still about 60% male I would say.

TFC07
08-12-2015, 10:11 AM
TravelPat - I'd call that a southern Ontario Sask fan bump more then anything else. Probably hoping for a win. :) Argos are barely noticed right now. They got only 20642 to their home opener against the Riders - that is pathetic for a home opener against the #1 draw (Rider games usually outdraw Ticats unless its a playoff).


One little demographic note:

Baseball is the big 18-30 juggernaut right now. Has been for a number of years, actually. If you went to a Jays game in the last 2 years on the weekend, its a very young crowd, with a lot of women. The 500 level was pheromone filled the few games I went. :)
TFC skews kinda all over the map demographically, but still about 60% male I would say.

Don't forget that Argos SSH were giving extra free tickets for home opener this year. So who knows how many of them were paying customers at home opener. lol

Qman
08-12-2015, 10:51 AM
Yup, I have notice CFL TV ratings and attendance (notice how CFL teams are downgrading their stadium capacity while MLS teams are increasing their seating capacity?) going downhill. Not only that, but CFL's fanbase is old and no one under 35 cares about CFL. They will eventually going to be dealing with crisis in few years. TFC/MLS in the other hand, they're doing much better with attendance and getting younger people interested in their product. The only down side for TFC/MLS is TV ratings (but then again, TV ratings are becoming less relevant due to a lot of people getting rid of cable in favour online viewing). CFL TV ratings are doing great (despite decline) because all old people still have their cable.

ratings do reflect streamers ONLY if your watching a TSN/SN broadcast feed (ie. you see the TSN/SN bug in the corner)

mr k
08-12-2015, 11:07 AM
Based on American tv demographics, the sports with the oldest demos are PGA, MLB & Nascar. MLB ties the NBA with highest male audience at 70%. The crowd at the Jays has changed in the past 5 years to be more younger and female. But I would question if they're truly followers of the sport since their behaviour at the games involves mostly watching the action around them and on their phones rather than the field.

Other than NBA, all major American sports have mostly white audiences including the MLS but MLB is at the higher end. This does apply to the Jays as the diversity is quite weak (but better than the Leafs). Unless there is a Japanese/Korean pitcher on the mound, you won't find too many Chinese, Korean, Indian extraction in the stands. Baseball has always had problems attracting blacks in the US and that also applies to the Jays.

18-34 account for about 20% of CFL tv audiences which is higher than MLB and NCAA football. It is lower than the NFL's 32%. Though, the NFL's 50+ audience accounts for 39% vs about 31% for the CFL.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/02/which-sports-have-the-whitest-richest-oldest-fans/283626/

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2010/06/Issue-185/The-Back-Of-The-Book/Fan-Demographics-Among-Major-North-American-Sports-Leagues.aspx

TravelPat
08-12-2015, 11:30 AM
A lot of the demographics of a fan base - at least the in stadium fan base - has to do with how the team is marketed locally. I live in Hamilton but attend several Argos, Ti-Cats, TFC, Raptors and Jays games each year. The Jays fanbase median age for people at the game has probably dopped by at least 10-15 years over the last five years and that can be traced directly to how Rogers have marketed the team over that time. Way more outreach to families that gets more kids aat the game with parents. Their social media marketing - much of it involving the players - has really dramatically increase their support from the under 35 crowd. Even subtle things like the volume and type of music they play in stadium, and during game telecasts on Sportsnet has changed to be geared to a younger crowd. And it has worked!

Ti-Cats have successfully done similar things here in Hamilton and it is 'cool' to be seen at a Ti-Cats game now and lots of people under 35 are at their games now. A way higher percentage of under 35 fans than what the Argos have gotten as of late. Crowds in Regina, Winnipeg and Ottawa also skew younger in the CFL than Argos current crowds. The Cats will almost certainly sell out their entire season at Tim Hortons Field.

I'll be very curious to see how Bell and Tanenbaum revamp the marketing for the Argos when they takeover the team next year. I would be shocked if they do not copy things that Rogers have done so well in marketing the Jays - or how MLSE has marketed the Raps and TFC. I'm guessing within a couple of years the median age at an Argos game will be substantially lower than it is now and probably not all that different from a TFC game whereas now - it is much older.

Richard
08-12-2015, 11:43 AM
The CFL is viewed as an inferior product by young people and no amount of marketing is going to get around that fact, its destined to fail in a city like Toronto.

OgtheDim
08-12-2015, 12:27 PM
Ti-Cats have successfully done similar things here in Hamilton and it is 'cool' to be seen at a Ti-Cats game now and lots of people under 35 are at their games now..

Hmm...then my hipster bag won't be too out of place at the labour day game....good to know. :)

Fort York Redcoat
08-12-2015, 01:07 PM
All these numbers are just to monitor slight change. I can't foresee an end to any of these properties for a long time.

This is the TV thread so I'll stick to Jays comparisons. They are getting great numbers. They have done when they do well. As soon as they lose that will go back to where it has every other time. It shouldn't concern TFC or their fans.

Pookie
08-12-2015, 04:14 PM
… (but then again, TV ratings are becoming less relevant due to a lot of people getting rid of cable in favour online viewing). CFL TV ratings are doing great (despite decline) because all old people still have their cable.

Shush, you young whipper snapper.

Us old guys don't watch online because we can afford big TVs. ;)

(and our eyes are failing)

Richard
08-12-2015, 04:20 PM
Shush, you young whipper snapper.

Us old guys don't watch online because we can afford big TVs. ;)

(and our eyes are failing)

You could always hook up the internet to your TV. g:D

Pookie
08-12-2015, 04:52 PM
You could always hook up the internet to your TV. g:D

I don't trust the internet.

Someone will hack into my PVR and erase all the Walking Dead episodes and replace with Dr Phil.

mr k
08-12-2015, 08:14 PM
The CFL is viewed as an inferior product by young people and no amount of marketing is going to get around that fact, its destined to fail in a city like Toronto.

It isn't that binary. TFC relative success in the stands says otherwise (and this is the template for Argos since there is so much similarities). Pan Am games says otherwise. Lack of traction with junior hockey says otherwise. There is no appetite for minor league baseball. We'll see how the Raps D League team works out.

Beach_Red
08-12-2015, 08:49 PM
Hmm...then my hipster bag won't be too out of place at the labour day game....good to know. :)

You can pretend you're in Brooklyn:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/marcello-cabezas/hamilton-canadas-brooklyn_b_7927150.html

East York
08-18-2015, 12:09 PM
The CFL is viewed as an inferior product by young people and no amount of marketing is going to get around that fact, its destined to fail in a city like Toronto.

People always underestamate the popularity of both the CFL and Argos in T.O. More than enough people care about the Argos in T.O. You will see that next year, watch what a real CORP owner will do for the Argos. There will be lots of under 35 at Argo games in the coming years. Plus the new owners will stop the ROGERS anti
CFL media line very fast next year. We can all Poo poo MLS and TFC tv ratings that they don't mean nothing, but the sad fact is, they do. MLS has chased this TV deal for years with no payout yet. Without a big TV deal in the next 5 years. MLS will be in trouble

OgtheDim
08-18-2015, 05:00 PM
"Real Corp backing"

Oh you Argo fans have so much to learn.

TFC07
08-18-2015, 05:47 PM
People always underestamate the popularity of both the CFL and Argos in T.O. More than enough people care about the Argos in T.O. You will see that next year, watch what a real CORP owner will do for the Argos. There will be lots of under 35 at Argo games in the coming years. Plus the new owners will stop the ROGERS anti
CFL media line very fast next year. We can all Poo poo MLS and TFC tv ratings that they don't mean nothing, but the sad fact is, they do. MLS has chased this TV deal for years with no payout yet. Without a big TV deal in the next 5 years. MLS will be in trouble

You give Bell and Larry T(he's a cancer and reason why Tim Lewieke is leaving) too much credit.

MLS isn't going to be in trouble in 5 years. lmao! They're making their money from SUM and gate (MLS attendance is going up ) and they recently got a reasonable TV deal with US networks.

You Argo fans need to do some research when comes to financial health of MLS. You guys clearly don't understand how MLS works and where money is coming from and why we got investors willing to pay $100 million USD to form a team in MLS. CFL would wish someone had to money to invest $100 million USD in their league.

Carts
08-19-2015, 09:57 AM
The CFL is viewed as an inferior product by young people and no amount of marketing is going to get around that fact, its destined to fail in a city like Toronto.

I agree with the first part of your post - but the last part not so much...

Destined to fail since 1873?

Carts
08-19-2015, 09:58 AM
I don't trust the internet.

Someone will hack into my PVR and erase all the Walking Dead episodes and replace with Dr Phil.

This made me LOL in the office!!! And I needed a laugh this morning. Thanks Pook! :)

Carts
08-19-2015, 10:01 AM
The sports TV ratings right now are definitely affected by BJ Fever.

The Jays are getting massive numbers right now - and it is definitely directly affecting CFL (a lot) and MLS (not as much but somewhat).

The Jays current status is an anomaly, even if they go on to be in first place every year for the next few years - the ratings will peak and then dip a bit.

But make no mistake, when the Jays win on the field, they win on the TV. Very consistent and excellent viewership numbers when times are bad - and massive TV numbers when times are good.

ManUtd4ever
08-19-2015, 10:29 AM
The Jays numbers lately have been staggering. It's way bigger across the country now than it was even during the glory years.

Rogers got a taste of the potential return on investment, and that bodes well for the future of the organization.

brad
08-19-2015, 11:13 AM
The sports TV ratings right now are definitely affected by BJ Fever.

The Jays are getting massive numbers right now - and it is definitely directly affecting CFL (a lot) and MLS (not as much but somewhat).

The Jays current status is an anomaly, even if they go on to be in first place every year for the next few years - the ratings will peak and then dip a bit.

But make no mistake, when the Jays win on the field, they win on the TV. Very consistent and excellent viewership numbers when times are bad - and massive TV numbers when times are good.

Curious about the Jays. Do you know how much of the jump comes from people in the rest of Canada vs in the GTA?

Carts
08-19-2015, 02:38 PM
Curious about the Jays. Do you know how much of the jump comes from people in the rest of Canada vs in the GTA?

Unfortunately, the daily numbers I personally get at the office doesn't have that breakdown. It does exist, I just don't receive it in my daily report.

Of note, Jays vs Phillies = 1,291,000

Carts
08-27-2015, 03:57 PM
Curious about the Jays. Do you know how much of the jump comes from people in the rest of Canada vs in the GTA?

Hey Brad... Just some stats for you... Its Canada compared to the GTA, but Ontario vs Que/Maritimes vs Alberta-Sask-Manitoba vs BC...

Aug 26th Jays Rating = 1,678,000

SN East = 283,000 (17%)
SN Ontario =900,000 (53%)
SN West = 171,000 (10%)
SN Pacific = 320,000 (19%)

(I rounded the %)

Carts...

Blizzard
08-27-2015, 04:48 PM
Amazing numbers!

TravelPat
09-15-2015, 07:23 PM
According to Chris Zelkowich's blog the TFC game drew only 50,000 viewers on Sunday. The Jays are killing everything now averaging FOR THE YEAR 880,000 per game for their 140+ games with their four games over the weekend averaging over 1.7 million. NFL and CFL the only others in the Top Ten of this past weekend.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--jays--nfl-have-big-weeks-on-tv-190426882.html

While the success of the Jays is hurting some sports audiences -- CFL ratings are down 12 per cent on TSN (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--cfl-180744519.html)-- they didn't affect the NFL on its opening week. Taking advantage of a Jays rainout, Thursday's opener between New England and Pittsburgh averaged 708,000 on TSN -- a 40 per cent improvement on last year's opening game. That doesn't factor in the unknown numbers who watched that game on NBC, so that should bode well for the NFL this season.
Despite competing with the Jays and the CFL, the NFL did well on the weekend, too. CTV' early games were up 14 per cent over last season's first weekend, while the late game showed a 20 per cent jump.
And while the Saskatchewan-Winnipeg game (702,000) fared well against the Jays on Saturday, the Friday night Hamilton-Toronto battle was well below average. Sunday's Ottawa-B.C. game (464,000) was outdrawn by CTV's late afternoon NFL package (817,000.)
Maybe that explains what happened with Toronto FC, whose Sunday afternoon game against New England drew all of 50,000 viewers to Sportsnet 360.
Here are the most-watched English-language sports events from the past weekend, according to Numeris overnight ratings:
1. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees Game 2, Saturday, Sportsnet: 1,870,000
2. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees Game 1, Saturday, Sportsnet: 1,760,000
3. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees, Friday, Sportsnet: 1,730,000
4. MLB, Blue Jays at Yankees, Sunday, Sportsnet: 1,430,000
5. NFL, Ravens-Broncos/Saints-Cards, Sunday, CTV: 817,000
6. CFL, Roughriders at Bombers, Saturday, TSN: 702,000
7. NFL, early games, Sunday, CTV: 685,000
8. CFL, Stampeders at Eskimos, Saturday, TSN: 635,000
9. NFL, Giants at Cowboys, Sunday, TSN: 520,000 (NBC viewers not measured)
10. CFL, Redblacks at Lions, Sunday, TSN: 464,000
11. CFL, Ticats at Argonauts, Friday, TSN: 418,000
12. Tennis, U.S. Open men's final, Sunday, TSN: 391,000
13. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge men's final, Sunday, Sportsnet: 372,000
14. Tennis, U.S. Open women's final, Saturday, TSN: 265,000
15. Soccer, Liverpool at Manchester United, Saturday, Sportsnet: 236,000
16. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge women's final, Sunday, Sportsnet: 204,000
17. Equestrian, Spruce Meadows show jumping, Sunday, CBC: 173,000
18. Auto racing, NASCAR Sprint Cup, Saturday, TSN: 163,000
19. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge men's quarters, Saturday, Sportsnet: 144,000
20. Basketball, Canada vs. Venezuela, Friday, TSN: 143,000
21. Soccer, English Premier League games, Saturday, TSN: 142,000
22. Equestrian, Spruce Meadows show jumping (evening), Saturday, CBC: 140,000
22. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge (evening), Friday, Sportsnet: 140,000
24. Equestrian, Spruce Meadows show jumping (afternoon), Saturday, CBC: 136,000
25. Curling, Grand Slam Tour Challenge semifinals, Saturday, Sportsnet: 116,000

ensco
09-15-2015, 08:39 PM
The issue for TFC Sunday wasn't the Jays (that game was a 1pm start). The issue is the lack of buzz. They drew 20% of the Liverpool-Man United game earlier the same day. That is not validation for Leiweke spending $100M.

The Jays drawing 1.4M Sunday, head to head with the NFL, including the Bills, that is unreal.

Red CB Toronto
09-15-2015, 09:06 PM
The issue for TFC Sunday wasn't the Jays (that game was a 1pm start). The issue is the lack of buzz. They drew 20% of the Liverpool-Man United game earlier the same day. That is not validation for Leiweke spending $100M.

The Jays drawing 1.4M Sunday, head to head with the NFL, including the Bills, that is unreal.

Now tomorrow night with the Reds going head to head against the Blue Jays juggernaut, that will be an interesting number to see.

ensco
09-16-2015, 06:06 AM
Better not show Giovinco that chart. He has moved to a place where his team is being trounced by show jumping in the ratings.

QBall
09-16-2015, 09:22 AM
According to Chris Zelkowich's blog the TFC game drew only 50,000 viewers on Sunday. The Jays are killing everything now averaging FOR THE YEAR 880,000 per game for their 140+ games with their four games over the weekend averaging over 1.7 million. NFL and CFL the only others in the Top Ten of this past weekend.

To be fair the Jays are the only professional baseball team for the entire country. If Montreal still had a team or if Vancouver had a team would the Jays still have those numbers?

QBall
09-16-2015, 09:24 AM
Better not show Giovinco that chart. He has moved to a place where his team is being trounced by show jumping in the ratings.

He might feel worse when someone shows him what curling actually is. :crazy:

ensco
12-06-2015, 09:09 AM
Hat tip to OgTheDim, who posted this elsewhere. A great read.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/thegoalkeeper/Reviewing-the-year-in-MLS-TV-coverage-and-a-look-at-the-future.html

TSN getting 260K for the playoff game cannot be characterized as anything other than massively disappointing.

Ivy
12-06-2015, 09:50 AM
Hat tip to OgTheDim, who posted this elsewhere. A great read.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/thegoalkeeper/Reviewing-the-year-in-MLS-TV-coverage-and-a-look-at-the-future.html

TSN getting 260K for the playoff game cannot be characterized as anything other than massively disappointing.
2.6million unique viewers over 2 networks for a first round Thursday night playoff game... It could be worse.
Thats being said, I thought this game would be marketed much much heavier than it was.

ensco
12-06-2015, 09:58 AM
2.6million unique viewers over 2 networks for a first round Thursday night playoff game... It could be worse.
Thats being said, I thought this game would be marketed much much heavier than it was.

The "unique viewer" game causes guffaws in the industry - it is never defined (it is clicks, most likely, but who knows? There clearly was an online audience, but there is an online audience for everything, it's not something any TV sports advertiser pays for yet, whatever people may think.

If you are watching the game online and you reload six times watching the game because it's buffering, that is six clicks. Watch the highlights 3 or 4 different times? That is 3 or 4 clicks.

btw the lower you go on the ratings list, the more the online presence increases. It's true for everything, NASCAR, curling, soccer, you name it.... but like I said, they get paid ad click rates for that, which is a tiny fraction of TV viewer rates

notthesun
12-06-2015, 04:10 PM
The "unique viewer" game causes guffaws in the industry - it is never defined (it is clicks, most likely, but who knows? There clearly was an online audience, but there is an online audience for everything, it's not something any TV sports advertiser pays for yet, whatever people may think.

If you are watching the game online and you reload six times watching the game because it's buffering, that is six clicks. Watch the highlights 3 or 4 different times? That is 3 or 4 clicks.

btw the lower you go on the ratings list, the more the online presence increases. It's true for everything, NASCAR, curling, soccer, you name it.... but like I said, they get paid ad click rates for that, which is a tiny fraction of TV viewer rates

The unique viewer number is still only television, not online streaming. Average audience is whatever amount of time is deemed enough to say that person was watching the game, while being part of that 2.6 million unique viewers can be as little as channel surfing and watching the game for a couple minutes before moving on to something else. So as you alluded advertisers aren't going to care about that number, in most cases it's just something for networks to include in press releases.

But unique viewers for online streaming is tracked by IP addresses, not clicks. You can reload a stream as much as you want, the viewer count won't increase because you are connecting from the same address.

ensco
12-06-2015, 04:39 PM
The unique viewer number is still only television, not online streaming. Average audience is whatever amount of time is deemed enough to say that person was watching the game, while being part of that 2.6 million unique viewers can be as little as channel surfing and watching the game for a couple minutes before moving on to something else. So as you alluded advertisers aren't going to care about that number, in most cases it's just something for networks to include in press releases.

But unique viewers for online streaming is tracked by IP addresses, not clicks. You can reload a stream as much as you want, the viewer count won't increase because you are connecting from the same address.

That is what they will say. But something doesn't add up. My experience on this is with execs from one of Bell/Rogers openly smirking at unique viewer sales pitches (I can't be more specific)

It defies common sense or credulity to think that 2.6M actually saw any part of that game on TV.

notthesun
12-06-2015, 06:14 PM
That is what they will say. But something doesn't add up. My experience on this is with execs from one of Bell/Rogers openly smirking at unique viewer sales pitches (I can't be more specific)

It defies common sense or credulity to think that 2.6M actually saw any part of that game on TV.

I am willing to believe that 2.6M number on TV way before I believe it includes anything from online viewership. The only online source for that game that Bell would report on is TSN/RDS Go, which are both complementary to a cable/satellite subscription and thus anyone with access to those platforms would have access to TSN or RDS on TV.

The game was on the main TSN/RDS network. You think it's impossible that 2.6 million people turned their sets to see what was on TSN at the time of the game (or more specifically, a number proportional to 2.6M out of the people who provide data to Numeris)?

OgtheDim
12-13-2015, 09:44 PM
And another article by Johnathan Tannenwald, this time about MLS Cup ratings. (http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/blogs/thegoalkeeper&id=361743671)

ensco
12-13-2015, 10:11 PM
^That online viewership number of 32000 "average minute impressions" is interesting. They are trying to put real numbers out there (that is a well-understood Nielsen TV metric), to give people some real info to base trends off. That is only 5% of the TV ratings, lower than I would have thought.

I respect ESPN for talking about this like grownups. It is a courtesy the property owners in this country will not give us. Instead they feed us unadulterated BS about "2.6 million unique viewers".

Going to bookmark this guy. He is discussing this topic on a whole other level. Thanks Og

ensco
12-14-2015, 08:59 AM
ESPN's 32K online number is truly conservative, as it probably won't catch people watching illegally or through VPNs. However you slice it though, the reality is that online viewership is miniscule

But I congratulate them for thinking this through. There will be real growth from here, and we (the advertisers, the public and the networks) can all measure that growth in a way that is consistent with existing industry standards. Someday it will matter.

Can we finally please stop having every conversation about TFC's TV ratings hijacked by narratives about supposed big online viewing numbers that are total nonsense? I get that there are a bunch of very smart people here that have unplugged and/or go 100% over the top. But in aggregate, it's less than nothing.

Detroit_TFC
12-14-2015, 11:33 AM
The numbers are terrible, been terrible and will be terrible. This is rationalized somewhat by being concentrated in favorable demographics and also there are general growth trends (year over year % change varies). I used to think there were easy, mechanical fixes (days, times, celebrity signings, etc) for ratings improvements that could be leveraged by better marketing by the networks but now I think it is simply cultural and only time will improve things.

Pookie
12-15-2015, 02:29 PM
That is what they will say. But something doesn't add up. My experience on this is with execs from one of Bell/Rogers openly smirking at unique viewer sales pitches (I can't be more specific)

It defies common sense or credulity to think that 2.6M actually saw any part of that game on TV.

I think I speak for the masses when I ask… it was on TV? Who played?

SoccMan2
12-15-2015, 05:23 PM
Look soccer on TV here in North America apart from the big events, The World Cups, The Euros and so on does not do good numbers when compared to the so called big four in North America. MLS on TV is a very hard sell . Those numbers for the MLS Cup final does not surprise me why would we think that based on the numbers the MLS was getting during the regular season the MLS Cup numbers would be any better. I'm a soccer fan it's my number one sport by far so for me it's natural for me to be a TFC fan, but I will watch TFC when I can on TV when they play away or I can't make it to the stadium. I also watch non TFC MLS games when I can too, and for me without question I will watch the championship game of the league the team that I support plays in, so of course I will watch an MLS Cup. I realize that the great majority of people that follow TFC probably would never watch an MLS game that TFC is not involved in even the championship final the MLS Cup. I do find it odd that people who have an interest in TFC would not even watch an MLS Cup because when it comes to the other North American sports league Leafs fans or Canadians fans do watch say the Stanley Cup Finals even when their teams are not in it, but not true when it comes to the MLS where most TFC fans probably like someone mentioned would not of known when it was on or who was playing in it. It makes no sense to me but it is what it is I guess.

vortexdr
12-16-2015, 10:45 AM
Look soccer on TV here in North America apart from the big events, The World Cups, The Euros and so on does not do good numbers when compared to the so called big four in North America. MLS on TV is a very hard sell . Those numbers for the MLS Cup final does not surprise me why would we think that based on the numbers the MLS was getting during the regular season the MLS Cup numbers would be any better. I'm a soccer fan it's my number one sport by far so for me it's natural for me to be a TFC fan, but I will watch TFC when I can on TV when they play away or I can't make it to the stadium. I also watch non TFC MLS games when I can too, and for me without question I will watch the championship game of the league the team that I support plays in, so of course I will watch an MLS Cup. I realize that the great majority of people that follow TFC probably would never watch an MLS game that TFC is not involved in even the championship final the MLS Cup. I do find it odd that people who have an interest in TFC would not even watch an MLS Cup because when it comes to the other North American sports league Leafs fans or Canadians fans do watch say the Stanley Cup Finals even when their teams are not in it, but not true when it comes to the MLS where most TFC fans probably like someone mentioned would not of known when it was on or who was playing in it. It makes no sense to me but it is what it is I guess.

To be fair....the level of play is also much better in the NHL than MLS. I wouldn't be surprised if the EPL gets a lot more viewers in North America than MLS and that is all down to the quality of play....

Yohan
12-22-2015, 12:26 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2015/12/22/how-major-league-soccer-is-closing-the-gap-with-the-big-four/

some interesting tv numbers

OgtheDim
12-22-2015, 12:38 PM
FYI

Forbes demands people drop their ad blocker.

Yohan
12-22-2015, 12:44 PM
FYI

Forbes demands people drop their ad blocker.
that's why god created incognito mode ;)

TFC07
12-22-2015, 07:04 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2015/12/22/how-major-league-soccer-is-closing-the-gap-with-the-big-four/

some interesting tv numbers

It shows you MLS is heading right direction based on numbers mention in that article. Not only numbers up, but they got right demographic viewing their product that they can build on for long term.

I just wish MLS got rid of local blackouts so I can ditch TV and watch TFC play online (legally and in HD/4K) on MLS app.

ensco
12-25-2015, 09:41 AM
^That article is pure PR spin. "30M discreet viewers" is not something advertisers pay for, it's a function of putting it on Euro TV.

I agree with the trend part, but MLS is 10-20 years away from being "4th". You need to look at the ratings for a Stanley Cup playoff game, vs MLS Cup. It's not close.

Oldtimer
12-25-2015, 10:51 AM
^That article is pure PR spin. "30M discreet viewers" is not something advertisers pay for, it's a function of putting it on Euro TV.

I agree with the trend part, but MLS is 10-20 years away from being "4th". You need to look at the ratings for a Stanley Cup playoff game, vs MLS Cup. It's not close.

Outside of Canada and the Northern states, MLS is already 4th. Mind you, 4th is close to zero compared with gridiron.

ensco
12-25-2015, 11:42 AM
It's national, not just the northeast. And it's not remotely close. MLS is miles behind hockey, even in southern markets.

Just to make this clear - in Boston and Los Angeles, a recent for instance:

Revolution MLS Cup TV ratings last year were 3.17 in Boston and 1.66 in LA last year, when they played.
http://sportsvideo.org/main/blog/2014/12/12/ratings-roundup-mls-cup-total-audience-up-91-over-2013-cfb-playoff-selection-show-big-hit-for-espn/

Bruins Stanley Cup Final TV ratings in 2013 were 43 ish in Boston. Kings did 12 ish in LA in 2014. Over many more games.

It is not really a debate.

SoccMan2
12-28-2015, 12:50 PM
Here is an article in reference to TV hockey ratings in some markets in the US, I agree they are better than MLS ratings but some of these hockey TV ratings in a lot of hockey markets are nothing to gloat about either. http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/93DC59B6836D4D73B50F8B35975EE590.jpg. I see a lot of markets with 0. whatever as the average viewership in a lot of hockey markets, yes MLS is way behind but some of those markets have MLS like numbers. These numbers were from a sportsnet article back in April 2015.

ag futbol
12-28-2015, 02:09 PM
Outside of Canada and the Northern states, MLS is already 4th. Mind you, 4th is close to zero compared with gridiron.
The 4th what? Professional league? Well that's also misleading.

NFL, NASCAR, College Football, College Basketball. There is no way MLS is topping any of those leagues in the south, west, or whatever. I don't know what the regional number are for the nba but judging by their mega TV which has salaries in the stratosphere I doubt they are under MLS.

Let's just back this up and admit the TV ratings are terrible because they've only tweaked this formula as far to be good, local, live entertainment. As a TV product, it's better than it was 5 years ago but not good enough to be a ratings winner.

ensco
12-29-2015, 06:50 AM
Here is an article in reference to TV hockey ratings in some markets in the US, I agree they are better than MLS ratings but some of these hockey TV ratings in a lot of hockey markets are nothing to gloat about either. http://assets1.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/93DC59B6836D4D73B50F8B35975EE590.jpg. I see a lot of markets with 0. whatever as the average viewership in a lot of hockey markets, yes MLS is way behind but some of those markets have MLS like numbers. These numbers were from a sportsnet article back in April 2015.

Averages don't tell the story. There are big in-season spikes for good matchups in prime slots, that is what drives revenue.
http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/1/23/3904934/nhl-tv-ratings-2013-local-audiences-came-back-too

Plus the rewards for success are large in hockey. These southern markets can produce skyrocketing numbers when their teams are in the playoffs, the teams can make millions per game.

This past year, Tampa was 11.9 locally for game seven of the semi final (better than NY which was 10.3) and 15 or better for every game in the Stanley Cup Final.

ensco
12-29-2015, 07:04 AM
Just to put these numbers in context, Southern Ontario is approx 4.5 million sets.

So when the Jays were getting 900K in this area every night in September (see top of page) that was something like a 20 share (ie similar to what Blackhawks got locally most nights in Stanley Cup final, unreal to think about)

TFC vs Impact in the playoffs getting 260K nationally, that's probably 150K in Southern Ontario, so something like a 3 share.

C.Ronaldo
12-29-2015, 10:16 AM
The 4th what? Professional league? Well that's also misleading.

NFL, NASCAR, College Football, College Basketball. There is no way MLS is topping any of those leagues in the south, west, or whatever. I don't know what the regional number are for the nba but judging by their mega TV which has salaries in the stratosphere I doubt they are under MLS.

Let's just back this up and admit the TV ratings are terrible because they've only tweaked this formula as far to be good, local, live entertainment. As a TV product, it's better than it was 5 years ago but not good enough to be a ratings winner.

there will need to be 15 more giovincos before TV rating for MLS really move

Yohan
12-30-2015, 02:47 PM
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.socceritalia.it%2F2015%2F12%2Fb enzi-eurosport-mls-pirlo-villa-deludenti%2F

Some interesting comments from Italian Eurosports guy who does MLS games. Google translated so it's a bit hard to read.
I'm not worried about business side of MLS.