Osorio

[kshep]

Just wondering how everyone feels about the outlook on how Osorio might fare this season now that we are featuring more players who are comfortable with playing with the ball at their feet and greater soccer IQ than we've ever had.

All I can think about is how many times he's had sublime passes that should have connected that didn't because his teammates either don't see the game properly or don't have the ability to simply accept the pass he's made.

What does everyone think? Will we see continued growth and maturation of Oso as a player this year, or are most people not expecting him to feature?

I think we'll see him mainly on the wing this year, potentially switching with Saba at the 10 if Saba decides to push out to the wing to find more space in certain games.

I suspect we may also see Oso at the 10 during cup matches as well, if we choose to sit Saba in some of those matches.

[OgtheDim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULz1uBl1bkw

More like this please.

[TFC/Everton]

Good points on Osorio. I've noticed whenever Bez is talking about how the "future of the club is bright" he mentions Osorio's name.

I hope he gets an opportunity to be in the starting 11 every week. His footwork is among the best on the team and he might be the best young player we have.

Hoping for big things from him this year!

[Red4ever]

Good points on Osorio. I've noticed whenever Bez is talking about how the "future of the club is bright" he mentions Osorio's name.

I hope he gets an opportunity to be in the starting 11 every week. His footwork is among the best on the team and he might be the best young player we have.

Hoping for big things from him this year!

Not to mention, All this will help him run the Canadian attacking mid for the next decade.

[Yohan]

I hoped he worked on his stamina over the winter. He was a 75min player last season. He needs to be a 90min player

[Defoe]

Those who read my posts know i'm not a huge Oso fan but I still value him and this is my honest opinion on Osorio

He's not fast enough to be a winger, but he's not slow either.
He's not strong or physical enough or good enough defensively to play defensive mid
He's not creative enough or a high enough IQ to lead an attack.

But the one thing he CAN do is keep possession, make the smart, easy play and finish sitters around the net, something not everyone can do.

Lucky for us, we literally have this spot for him on the team. He won't have to be the creator in midfield (Giovinco) He won't have to be a defensive mid (Bradley, Cheyrou) and we seem to be a team that will play possession. If he can't succeed in this role play RM/LM then he's of no use to us. This is a big year for him to show us if he can play on a good team.

[Yohan]

Those who read my posts know i'm not a huge Oso fan but I still value him and this is my honest opinion on Osorio

He's not fast enough to be a winger, but he's not slow either.
He's not strong or physical enough or good enough defensively to play defensive mid
He's not creative enough or a high enough IQ to lead an attack.

But the one thing he CAN do is keep possession, make the smart, easy play and finish sitters around the net, something not everyone can do.

Lucky for us, we literally have this spot for him on the team. He won't have to be the creator in midfield (Giovinco) He won't have to be a defensive mid (Bradley, Cheyrou) and we seem to be a team that will play possession. If he can't succeed in this role play RM/LM then he's of no use to us. This is a big year for him to show us if he can play on a good team.
I disagree slightly. I think he's got the footy IQ to be creative midfielder. I don't think he's good enough technically. at least not yet. he needs to improve his range of passing to be a playmaker.

Osorio might just end up being another master of none, jack of all trades midfielders in MLS like Eric Alexander or Ned Grabavoy. not flashy by any means, but just solid career MLS midfielder. It's just he'll disappoint CMNT supporters who wants Oso to be a CAM that we're solely missing.

Should be fun to watch how Jay Chapman pushes Oso for game mins

[Red4ever]

Enh.

I've watched him play through CSL and anyone who says he's not creative just isn't watching.

Also, of all the things that disappoint us fans of the CMNT, it would have to get way worse for Oso to be one.

[Ajax TFC]

From Vanney's interviews, I get the impression that Warner, Bradley, and Cheyrou are the first three choices for the two pivot positions. I don't think he sees Oso as a pivot player. And considering he never played him as the #10 last season, he probably doesn't see him as a 10 either. He'll probably get a lot of time on the wing this season

[ag futbol]

Enh.

I've watched him play through CSL and anyone who says he's not creative just isn't watching.

Also, of all the things that disappoint us fans of the CMNT, it would have to get way worse for Oso to be one.
Agree. Try to be "creative" in the middle when your flank players are Oduro and Jackson, not going to happen. Ryan Nelsen is to flank play what Tony Pulis is to keeping the ball in the deck.

I agree with yohan he has to increase his stamina (fades in the second half too often). We'll see I guess, potential somewhere between very solid contributor and first midfield sub. Good season would be 4-5 goals and around same number of assists.

[ManUtd4ever]

He lacks the speed to be effective on the wing. He is most suited to a central attacking midfield role based on his skill set.

[kshep]

He lacks the speed to be effective on the wing. He is most suited to a central attacking midfield role based on his skill set.

We said the same thing about Soolsma who was actually slow as a brick and he routinely beat his man 1v1. Skill and IQ can trump speed even at the wing.

[mcolvy]

From Vanney's interviews, I get the impression that Warner, Bradley, and Cheyrou are the first three choices for the two pivot positions. I don't think he sees Oso as a pivot player. And considering he never played him as the #10 last season, he probably doesn't see him as a 10 either. He'll probably get a lot of time on the wing this season

Oso was the first name mentioned when Vanney listed his Winger options. I think they see him as a winger at the moment, but don't expect him to play the role traditionally. Morrow will be pushing right up the field so I see him as playing extremely inverted. As long as he can keep possession and knocks in sitters, I don't see why you wouldn't pencil him into the first 11.

[Ajax TFC]

Oso was the first name mentioned when Vanney listed his Winger options. I think they see him as a winger at the moment, but don't expect him to play the role traditionally. Morrow will be pushing right up the field so I see him as playing extremely inverted. As long as he can keep possession and knocks in sitters, I don't see why you wouldn't pencil him into the first 11.
That's exactly how I see him playing. More as a wide creative midfielder than as a traditional winger. He'll probably pinch in a lot and combine with and interchange positions with Giovinco

[Defoe]

Enh.

I've watched him play through CSL and anyone who says he's not creative just isn't watching.

Also, of all the things that disappoint us fans of the CMNT, it would have to get way worse for Oso to be one.

He can be, yes... But not enough to be a CAM which was my point would you agree? I've seen him pass the ball backwards far to many times rather then forward. I disagree he will ever be the focal point of the offence or a great attacking player, but rather a useful player who can keep possession of the ball and make the occasional good ball. I would be pretty happy with 6 goals 6 assists type of production, and there's nothing wrong with that. If he develops into anything more I will be pleasantly surprised.

[Red4ever]

He can be, yes... But not enough to be a CAM which was my point would you agree? I've seen him pass the ball backwards far to many times rather then forward. I disagree he will ever be the focal point of the offence or a great attacking player, but rather a useful player who can keep possession of the ball and make the occasional good ball. I would be pretty happy with 6 goals 6 assists type of production, and there's nothing wrong with that. If he develops into anything more I will be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah we disagree.

To AGs point, when he plays with good players, his game elevates. I don't understand how anyone can say they've seen enough of Osario to make a call against him at this point.

I look forward to him having a good healthy run this year.

[Defoe]

Yeah we disagree.

To AGs point, when he plays with good players, his game elevates. I don't understand how anyone can say they've seen enough of Osario to make a call against him at this point.

I look forward to him having a good healthy run this year.

Exactly you just proved my point "when he plays with good players" his game elevates

I have no doubt he can elevate his game but he can't be the guy to make those around him better, he can't be a Giovinco, Morales, Valeri focal of the offence #10 type player, but my point was that he doesn't have to be that type of player to be useful. and in that regard I have to STRONGLY disagree and people should really limit expectations (Imo of coarse)

[jabbronies]

He shows glimpses of potentially being a quality MLS star, but for the most part he's mediocre to regular MLS player.

He needs to break out this year. Find his role on the team and solidify it. Last year it just seemed he was always doing too much without thinking about how his decisions affected others.

An example is when he played on the wing he would cut in to the middle too soon and ended up just congesting that part of the park.

Another example is when he plays in the middle of the park. - He just ended up running all over the place. It really sent the formation into disarray. He left open spaces all over the park.

At times it was erratic movements against smaller pieces of the game as oppose to the looking at the whole picture and figuring out the best way to move based on what his teammates were doing.

[Red4ever]

Exactly you just proved my point "when he plays with good players" his game elevates

I have no doubt he can elevate his game but he can't be the guy to make those around him better, he can't be a Giovinco, Morales, Valeri focal of the offence #10 type player, but my point was that he doesn't have to be that type of player to be useful. and in that regard I have to STRONGLY disagree and people should really limit expectations (Imo of coarse)

I didn't prove your point.

Everyone was all over DeGuzman for making shit passes when he came here. After playing in a better league with better players, he couldn't dumb his game down the MLS level. He'd play great passes to lead guys where they were supposed to go and they would never go there.

Well now we don't have 1 dimensional players, we will see what becomes of Jonathan. Good players make for a better team. Not really a new concept.

Gotta figure Tom Brady is gonna throw more touchdown passes to Randy Moss, then... oh i dunno, me.

[Defoe]

I didn't prove your point.

Everyone was all over DeGuzman for making shit passes when he came here. After playing in a better league with better players, he couldn't dumb his game down the MLS level. He'd play great passes to lead guys where they were supposed to go and they would never go there.

Well now we don't have 1 dimensional players, we will see what becomes of Jonathan. Good players make for a better team. Not really a new concept.

Gotta figure Tom Brady is gonna throw more touchdown passes to Randy Moss, then... oh i dunno, me.

While we agree his game is more suited playing with better players (obviously) and we agree he will be better as a result, I'm disagreeing he can be the focal part of the offence as a #10. That's the only part I disagreed on.

[kshep]

But Defoe your comment about seeing him play the back pass far to often, was usually the result of him not having decent options to play the ball too. When your playing with a squad that generally doesn't have the same type of sports IQ as you, you begin to realize you have to play the safer option (back pass) rather than playing a ball that you know your teammate doesn't have the ability/vision to see materializing.

An example has already been provided for us of how well Osorio game in vision the game in the video Og put up, Defoe points to where he want Osorio to put the ball, and Osorio provides an even better ball than even Defoe wanted. To me this is the type of soccer IQ I want to see displayed, and it's leads to a goal that someone like Oduro would have totally botched. By playing with a better striker Osorio was able to play the ball he wanted, had it been Oduro or probably almost anyone else that ball goes to the flank.

[kshep]

He shows glimpses of potentially being a quality MLS star, but for the most part he's mediocre to regular MLS player.

He needs to break out this year. Find his role on the team and solidify it. Last year it just seemed he was always doing too much without thinking about how his decisions affected others.

An example is when he played on the wing he would cut in to the middle too soon and ended up just congesting that part of the park.

Another example is when he plays in the middle of the park. - He just ended up running all over the place. It really sent the formation into disarray. He left open spaces all over the park.

At times it was erratic movements against smaller pieces of the game as oppose to the looking at the whole picture and figuring out the best way to move based on what his teammates were doing.

A lot of that can be placed at the feet of our former manager I believe, lots of time Bradley would run around pointlessly too.

Nelsons training style and regimes might also have had a negative impact on our players as well, which shouldn't be overlooked imo.

If your being trained to death, kinda hard to have have the legs to go the 90.

[Defoe]

But Defoe your comment about seeing him play the back pass far to often, was usually the result of him not having decent options to play the ball too. When your playing with a squad that generally doesn't have the same type of sports IQ as you, you begin to realize you have to play the safer option (back pass) rather than playing a ball that you know your teammate doesn't have the ability/vision to see materializing.

An example has already been provided for us of how well Osorio game in vision the game in the video Og put up, Defoe points to where he want Osorio to put the ball, and Osorio provides an even better ball than even Defoe wanted. To me this is the type of soccer IQ I want to see displayed, and it's leads to a goal that someone like Oduro would have totally botched. By playing with a better striker Osorio was able to play the ball he wanted, had it been Oduro or probably almost anyone else that ball goes to the flank.

Yes that was a good ball and that was 1 of 4 assists and we didn't see that enough. He played about 18 games with Defoe and he kind of proved he couldn't be the middle man between Bradley and Defoe hence us going out and getting a true #10. Again, nothing wrong with that... but lets keep in mind how good and consistent he really is. I want to see a good year out of him this year and I think we will, but not going to call him a great consistent player yet. He has his chance now, no excuses - lets see what he can do. This a defining moment in his career.

[molenshtain]

didn't we finish the year undefeated when Bradley and Osorio played in the middle together? small sample size mind you.

[kshep]

Defoe I totally agree with your sentiment on this being a career defining season for Osorio.

There shouldn't be any excuses for him this year, he'll have to prove that he deserves to truly be out on the pitch.

Still have to wonder how Nelsons training methods factor in Osoario relative struggles last year.

[Red4ever]

While we agree his game is more suited playing with better players (obviously) and we agree he will be better as a result, I'm disagreeing he can be the focal part of the offence as a #10. That's the only part I disagreed on.

Which I never said. So...

You went from saying he couldn't play CAM to he couldn't be the focal part of the offence at CAM. Which are different. Should we go back and forth to define focal?

This is painful.

[Defoe]

Which I never said. So...

You went from saying he couldn't play CAM to he couldn't be the focal part of the offence at CAM. Which are different. Should we go back and forth to define focal?

This is painful.

My original statement was "He's not creative enough or a high enough IQ to lead an attack" and you responded stating "anyone who says he's not creative just isn't watching"

Your right this could go on forever, I just wanted it to be known I think he can be creative and useful but doesn't have the creative ability to lead an attack which is completely different i.e.: be a true #10. I'm not sure what your stance on this is.

[Cashcleaner]

He lacks the speed to be effective on the wing. He is most suited to a central attacking midfield role based on his skill set.

Yeah, I think you may be right, there. I find his initiative on the pitch needs to improve, but he's pretty good at reacting to his surroundings. And Yohan is right about his staying power. He needs to put more gas in the tank.

[kshep]

Yeah, I think you may be right, there. I find his initiative on the pitch needs to improve, but he's pretty good at reacting to his surroundings. And Yohan is right about his staying power. He needs to put more gas in the tank.

I still say, like almost the whole squad Oso's staying power is probably directly connected to Nelsons training methods, if the reports of over training are believable.

[mitchf]

He's certainly a floater and the skillset doesn't jump out relative to other MLS'ers. Not counting on him for much this year and going forward.

[ag futbol]

He can be, yes... But not enough to be a CAM which was my point would you agree? I've seen him pass the ball backwards far to many times rather then forward. I disagree he will ever be the focal point of the offence or a great attacking player, but rather a useful player who can keep possession of the ball and make the occasional good ball. I would be pretty happy with 6 goals 6 assists type of production, and there's nothing wrong with that. If he develops into anything more I will be pleasantly surprised.did you watch this team prior to last year? I'm wondering how anyone can have this opinion after his rookie season.

[Ruffian]

Yes that was a good ball and that was 1 of 4 assists and we didn't see that enough. He played about 18 games with Defoe and he kind of proved he couldn't be the middle man between Bradley and Defoe hence us going out and getting a true #10. Again, nothing wrong with that... but lets keep in mind how good and consistent he really is. I want to see a good year out of him this year and I think we will, but not going to call him a great consistent player yet. He has his chance now, no excuses - lets see what he can do. This a defining moment in his career.

Bekker is gone! We need another Canadian player to criticise. Who could we use?

[Yohan]

Bekker is gone! We need another Canadian player to criticise. Who could we use?
there's always Ashtone Morgan :p

[Ajax TFC]

there's always Ashtone Morgan :p
The other day I saw a vid of TFC training and it took me a minute to remember who the #5 was. I thought it was someone new because I couldn't remember anyone previously on the team wearing that number

[OgtheDim]

there's always Ashtone Morgan :p

Hard to keep on criticizing somebody who's biggest achievement last season was a red card in one of his two starts.

[Ajax TFC]

As for Osorio, you can't judge how he'd produce as a #10 based on his production playing in a pivot with no defensive cover behind and no one ahead. The result was him and Bradley running forwards and backwards aimlessly trying to both create goals and shield the defense. Regardless of where Osorio plays, I'm just looking forward to having players have defined roles in midfield.

[19Barrett19]

I am really interested to see how chapman and Osorio will do this season add to that lovitz. Good young players we have