Altidore

[ronzilla]

Will he deliver ?

[Ajax TFC]

Yes.

[/thread]

[Red4ever]

http://i.giphy.com/byaPBsy0f7h6g.gif

[Defoe]

http://i.giphy.com/byaPBsy0f7h6g.gif

It will take time to adjust to new MLS. 2007 was a long time ago, and was a much easier league. I think he will do well, but I see him closer to 12-13 then 25.

OTR I think Gilberto will put up a huge season with another team if he stays here, I think it's pretty inevitable given his determination to succeed and skill.

[Kaz]

I didn't know TFC Delivered.


I'll have a Medium Kaziklian on whole grain please.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So far we've predicted he'll be twice as good as Gila last season. Well that's an upgrade.

[mowe]

He needs to score at least 12-15 to justify the deal that brought him here. I think (hope) he can do it.

Everything is set up for him to succeed. No excuses.

[portu]

Personally expecting a 20+ goal season out of Altidore, think if the team performs the way they're supposed to, and I think it will, there is no reason for him not to put up that kind of number.

[nfitz]

Personally expecting a 20+ goal season out of Altidore, think if the team performs the way they're supposed to, and I think it will, there is no reason for him not to put up that kind of number.Other than he's seldom had that kind of strike rate, has failed miserably recently, and is injury prone?

I'd be thrilled to see that kind of rate, but honestly, I'd be happy with 10.

My expectation is about 6.

[Defoe]

Other than he's seldom had that kind of strike rate, has failed miserably recently, and is injury prone?

I'd be thrilled to see that kind of rate, but honestly, I'd be happy with 10.

My expectation is about 6.

That would be a disaster if he scored 6.

[Kaz]

Other than he's seldom had that kind of strike rate, has failed miserably recently, and is injury prone?

I'd be thrilled to see that kind of rate, but honestly, I'd be happy with 10.

My expectation is about 6.

That is my expectation too.. but I expect him to tear his MCL in early April.

[brad]

Other than he's seldom had that kind of strike rate, has failed miserably recently, and is injury prone?

I'd be thrilled to see that kind of rate, but honestly, I'd be happy with 10.

My expectation is about 6.

His stint at Sunderland means little. Plenty of players can't step up to that level, and plenty of really good players don't adapt to to the pace.

And no one on Sunderland was scoring - including guys like Fletcher who were into double digits in the EPL a couple of years ago

Prior to that he scored 39 goals in 67 games in Holland. That wasn't that long ago.

I'm betting 10 - 15 this season, but he goes three games at the start of the season with out scoring and he gets dismissed as a flop at that point.

[brad]

That would be a disaster if he scored 6.

But if he gets 7 we'll all be eager for him to stay on - right :-)

[Yohan]

His stint at Sunderland means little. Plenty of players can't step up to that level, and plenty of really good players don't adapt to to the pace.

And no one on Sunderland was scoring - including guys like Fletcher who were into double digits in the EPL a couple of years ago

Prior to that he scored 39 goals in 67 games in Holland. That wasn't that long ago.

I'm betting 10 - 15 this season, but he goes three games at the start of the season with out scoring and he gets dismissed as a flop at that point.
Altidore will miss quite a few games due to USMNT call up and Gold Cup incl camp. gotta keep that into account. 1 in 2 would be very nice. I'm expecting more like 1 in 2.5games

[Brooker]

Aslong as he has fun out there, that's the main thing.

[MightyDM]

I am hopeful about Alitodre. But as the DP striker, he should be scoring at a rate that gets us in the playoffs, equivalent to what a healthy Defoe would have scored - at least 25. Defoe was scoring at almost a goal a game for us before he was hurt. For Sunderland, he is scoring a goal every second game. Altidore scored a goal every second season for the same team. Easy to be hopeful, hard to be optimistic.

[brad]

Altidore will miss quite a few games due to USMNT call up and Gold Cup incl camp. gotta keep that into account. 1 in 2 would be very nice. I'm expecting more like 1 in 2.5games

That's a good point. 1 in 2.5 is probably a safe bet.

[jloome]

fourteen goals, four assists.

[burlington Red]

The Sunderland weren't creating chances argument is being vastly overplayed on here. I watched quite a lot of their games when he was playing and he was missing sitters on a regular basis. Teams like QPR and Burnley aren't exactly noted for their offensive threat in PL yet Ings since he has come back from injury for Burnley and Austin at QPR have done okay. Defoe has nearly scored the same amount in 3 games than Altidore did in 50 odd games for the same team.
In saying that I do feel he will fit in more in the MLS, I feel we will see more of his US men's teams performances than his Sunderland ones. One of his problems in PL was due to his physique fans and his teammates expected him to be a threat in the air, he is terrible in that dept for a man of his size. His strength on the ball on the ground is excellent, I seen him hold Vidic at Utd off the ball in one game with ease, and not many did that when he was there. If we play to his strengths he will do fine.

[Shakes McQueen]

fourteen goals, four assists.

This is in the upper end of my expectations. Honestly, I wonder if TFC wouldn't have been better off to stick with Gilberto, and see what they could get in return for letting Jozy go to another MLS team.

I get that we put the deal together because we wanted to parlay Defoe's exit into something, but by some accounts, it sounds like MLS wanted Jozy to end up in NY, and the TFC FO sort of burned the league office in landing him here. And for what? To comically overpay for a previous MLS darling (in a time that might as well have been a century ago, with how much the league has changed since then), who has had a spotty record overseas, to say the least? And when we already had Gilberto on the roster?

I hope he does well for us, and recaptures some of what he lost completely in the EPL - I just can't help but wonder if the team's strategy on all of this was wrong.

[Cashcleaner]

It wouldn't surprise me if it's a bit more than a dozen, maybe even north of 15. I'm not expecting the world from the guy or anything; but given where we have our other strengths on the pitch, I think he'll do his part just as well.

[OgtheDim]

He'll get 13. But the attack will be a bit more spread out, given the black hole known as Oduro is no longer around.

[Auzzy]

I remember that Dempsey also took a while to get going in Seattle. I have no idea what to expect. As usual, many of the key players on the team will not have played together long, but the expectations will be extremely high. Oh well...

[ManUtd4ever]

I remember that Dempsey also took a while to get going in Seattle. I have no idea what to expect. As usual, many of the key players on the team will not have played together long, but the expectations will be extremely high. Oh well...

As of Monday, the entire roster will be together for the duration of the pre-season. At least they have some time to adjust and develop some cohesion prior to the season opener.

[brad]

If we'd signed him two years ago we would all be going bonkers about how we'd signed a player that had scored 39 goals in 67 games in Holland. If the stint at Sunderland had ruined him he wouldn't be scoring for the USMNT - but he is. 3 goals in 7 appearances in 14/15. 10 goals in 14 appearances in 13/14.

He will be fine here.

[ManUtd4ever]

Altidore's first touch is questionable at times, but he has a nice touch around the goal and he can pass with accuracy in the offensive third of the pitch. I think he'll be solid for us as well.

Here is a compilation of his goals for the USMNT...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD3gVfGAxbY

[Richard]

Apparently he can take a good free kick too.

[mowe]

If we'd signed him two years ago we would all be going bonkers about how we'd signed a player that had scored 39 goals in 67 games in Holland. If the stint at Sunderland had ruined him he wouldn't be scoring for the USMNT - but he is. 3 goals in 7 appearances in 14/15. 10 goals in 14 appearances in 13/14.

He will be fine here.

Great point. USMNT and TFC fans are obviously hoping for the AZ Alkmaar Altidore over the EPL version.

Around when we signed him all the US journalists were talking about how during the draft the question going around was will Altidore score over/under 13.5 goals. Every single person I heard talk about it publicly took the over.

[Auzzy]

As of Monday, the entire roster will be together for the duration of the pre-season. At least they have some time to adjust and develop some cohesion prior to the season opener.

You're right, this season looks much better than previous TFC seasons, with the roster having most of the pre-season together, and even Giovinco coming earlier.

However, I'm also comparing with other MLS teams, that have a coach & a stable core for multiple years. Also comparing with someone like Dempsey, who took some time before scoring after coming back to MLS, even though he had done fairly well in the EPL. With Altidore, it may also be a confidence thing: when he feels good & is in a good situation, he scores. When he's in a bad spot, it seems harder for him. And everyone at TFC will feel extraordinary pressure from the start.

I guess my point is -- I just hope, for once, management and the fans can give the team some time to grow together, for more than one season. And I hope if some player doesn't score right out of the gate, the other players will pick up the slack, and we (management and fans) will leave that player time to grow into his roll.

[brad]

You're right, this season looks much better than previous TFC seasons, with the roster having most of the pre-season together, and even Giovinco coming earlier.

However, I'm also comparing with other MLS teams, that have a coach & a stable core for multiple years. Also comparing with someone like Dempsey, who took some time before scoring after coming back to MLS, even though he had done fairly well in the EPL. With Altidore, it may also be a confidence thing: when he feels good & is in a good situation, he scores. When he's in a bad spot, it seems harder for him. And everyone at TFC will feel extraordinary pressure from the start.

I guess my point is -- I just hope, for once, management and the fans can give the team some time to grow together, for more than one season. And I hope if some player doesn't score right out of the gate, the other players will pick up the slack, and we (management and fans) will leave that player time to grow into his roll.

As a counterpoint you can take Eddie Johnson who was out of the league for 4 years (scoring something like 7 goals over that time) and he scored 14 in 28 his first year back in the MLS

The thing is how a player performed in a different league is often not a barometer for how they will perform in the current one. And different players take different amounts of time to adapt to a new league. None of that is MLS specific either

[nfitz]

Altidore will miss quite a few games due to USMNT call up and Gold Cup incl camp. gotta keep that into account. 1 in 2 would be very nice. I'm expecting more like 1 in 2.5games1 in 2.5 games sounds about right. We know he's already out for at least 6 games this season with Gold Cup and Friendlies. So a ceiling of about 11 goals.

But given his tendency to get injured, I have low expectations.

Is that a disaster? That's TFC ...

[ronzilla]

I have only seen Altidore in play on International level (had no idea he was only 25), although his size/strength will help to create havoc in the box, out-muscle defenders and he will also be a threat on the set pieces. Looks like he has some great pace too.

[Ajax TFC]

1 in 2.5 games sounds about right. We know he's already out for at least 6 games this season with Gold Cup and Friendlies. So a ceiling of about 11 goals.

But given his tendency to get injured, I have low expectations.

Is that a disaster? That's TFC ...
Would you care to list some of those injuries? As far as I can tell, his only injuries were during the 2011 gold cup, and before the last WC.

I find it very ironic that Altidore supposedly has to match the numbers that a never injured Defoe would have scored (even though Defoe actually is injury prone, and would never actually score that many goals), yet Altidore won't be able to because he's supposedly injury prone, when in fact he isn't

[nfitz]

Would you care to list some of those injuries? As far as I can tell, his only injuries were during the 2011 gold cup, and before the last WC.There was also the ankle injury in the lead-up to the 2010 World Cup. His toe in 2009 when he was with Villarreal. The ankle injury in 2008 with the Red Bulls. The calf problems in 2007, and the groin problems in 2006. The guy is made of glass!

Apart from his brief spell in the Dutch leagues, he's often been injured. And that isn't typically something that goes away as one ages!

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic ... but it's not hard to see how this could likely go.

[kshep]

I agree that Altidore shouldn't be held to the production of an injury free Defoe, but I'm hoping he good for at least 10.

My only concern is if he only produces 10, I think we would have got the same production from Gilberto and then used the load of Garber bucks we would have got from the Red bulls and probably the league for allowing Altidore to go to red bulls to sign some decent wingers and a second/third stud cb. Just seems like we could have benefited more that way. Guess only time will tell now if the FO made the right call.

[Ajax TFC]

There was also the ankle injury in the lead-up to the 2010 World Cup. His toe in 2009 when he was with Villarreal. The ankle injury in 2008 with the Red Bulls. The calf problems in 2007, and the groin problems in 2006. The guy is made of glass!

Apart from his brief spell in the Dutch leagues, he's often been injured. And that isn't typically something that goes away as one ages!

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic ... but it's not hard to see how this could likely go.
Most of those were before he was even twenty though. So yes, it could very well be something he grows out of. His "brief" spell in the Dutch league lasted two full years. And I could be wrong, but I don't remember injury being one of his problems at Sunderland

[Ajax TFC]

I agree that Altidore shouldn't be held to the production of an injury free Defoe, but I'm hoping he good for at least 10.

My only concern is if he only produces 10, I think we would have got the same production from Gilberto and then used the load of Garber bucks we would have got from the Red bulls and probably the league for allowing Altidore to go to red bulls to sign some decent wingers and a second/third stud cb. Just seems like we could have benefited more that way. Guess only time will tell now if the FO made the right call.
The most tangible advantage of Altidore over Gilberto is long term. The intention with Gilberto was always for him to use MLS as a stepping stone in his career, which means he'd be here for one or two more seasons. Altidore is a player that could conceivably be here for the next 5+ seasons

[nfitz]

Most of those were before he was even twenty though. So yes, it could very well be something he grows out of. His "brief" spell in the Dutch league lasted two full years. And I could be wrong, but I don't remember injury being one of his problems at SunderlandHe missed games at Sunderland with a hamstring both in 2013, and later in 2014, long after the World Cup which he also had hamstring problems.

Sure, he could suddenly not get injured frequently. I'd put more money on a poor season, Giovinco underwhelming and running back to Europe after underestimating the physicality and travel in MLS, and Vanny/Bez being shown the door before year-end.

It's the same plot every season isn't it? :)

[kshep]

The most tangible advantage of Altidore over Gilberto is long term. The intention with Gilberto was always for him to use MLS as a stepping stone in his career, which means he'd be here for one or two more seasons. Altidore is a player that could conceivably be here for the next 5+ seasons

Okay from that perspective it does make sense.

Here a supposition though, what if you keep Gilberto and he clicks for two years and wins the golden boot one or twice bagging 30/40 over that time period.

Your then in a better position than with the Altidore acquisition, because you can sell Gilberto for a bigger fee, then either address the striker need then, or already have a replacement on hand ready to step in.

It can go both ways really, I really hope Altidore thrives for us in the now and in the future for years to come. I just think that with the clubs history of giving up on players that "aren't" good enough that then go on to be serviceable parts or stalwarts in other sides has me longing for a little more roster cohesion when we do bring in quality that doesn't necessary adapt in the short to mid term.

[Ivy]

Jozy leaves US game due to hamstring soreness.

[Richard]

Jozy leaves US game due to hamstring soreness.

Oh jeez here we go.

I don't know man, maybe we should have given Altidore to NY for a load of Garber bucks and then actually get a proven striker who isn't a project.

[kshep]

Lol.

[mowe]

Jozy leaves US game due to hamstring soreness.

The beginning of the end.

[Ajax TFC]

He missed games at Sunderland with a hamstring both in 2013, and later in 2013, long after the Gold Cup which he also had hamstring problems.

Sure, he could suddenly not get injured frequently. I'd put more money on a poor season, Giovinco underwhelming and running back to Europe after underestimating the physicality and travel in MLS, and Vanny/Bez being shown the door before year-end.

It's the same plot every season isn't it? :)
If he does have hamstring issues, then there might be some reason for concern. But it also depends on the case. Some players have hamstring issues where they'll miss a game here and there throughout the season, but nothing major. Do you know how long he was out for each time?

[OgtheDim]

I would tend to blame that on effing Klinnsman overworking them all.

He's got a month to get better.

[ginkster88]

The same one as the World Cup? Sounds recurring..

[Shakes McQueen]

Oh jeez here we go.

I don't know man, maybe we should have given Altidore to NY for a load of Garber bucks and then actually get a proven striker who isn't a project.

I still have serious questions about our defense. We've made a lot of high-profile additions at the top, but our defense has historically been a massive problem. Having a bunch of amazing goal scorers isn't going to matter if opponents can keep us penned in our own end, or go up a goal on us all the time, and then sit back and absorb pressure from us the rest of the match.

[kshep]

I think with perquis in the defence now we're better off than last year, and by all accounts that I've come across the French kid has a chance to be a real stud.

And hagglund ain't that bad either and is a beast in the air, he should have had like 8 goals last year.

[Richard]

I still have serious questions about our defense. We've made a lot of high-profile additions at the top, but our defense has historically been a massive problem. Having a bunch of amazing goal scorers isn't going to matter if opponents can keep us penned in our own end, or go up a goal on us all the time, and then sit back and absorb pressure from us the rest of the match.

Sometimes a good is offense is the best defense to take the pressure off the defensive players, it makes the other team respect us pushing forward.

Last year it was obvious we were anemic going forward when Defoe and Gilberto were not clicking, our wingers were useless and nobody really took us seriously going forward, it put more pressure on our D.

I still think we need 1-2 more high IQ players, I just couldn't stand how one dimensional our team was going forward last year.

[kshep]

I wouldn't count anymore high IQ players coming in now, and one thing to consider is we have a coach with a better coaching IQ who seems adaptable(at least that's what I took away from the article JK posted after the original Giovinco presser) who isn't going to train the side into the ground, in some mistaken notion that continual back breaking training is a sure fire way to success.

[ag futbol]

Aparently is was his "other" hamstring and not the one he hurt in the WC.

This good, yes?

[nfitz]

Jozy leaves US game due to hamstring soreness.What, today? I didn't even know the US was playing. Good grief!


Aparently is was his "other" hamstring and not the one he hurt in the WC.

This good, yes?How many hamstrings does he have? He did one in 2011, and then one in 2013, and then 2014. And now 2015? I can't see any way this is good. Perhaps my 6 goals was overly optimistic!

[Defoe]

What, today? I didn't even know the US was playing. Good grief!

How many hamstrings does he have? He did one in 2011, and then one in 2013, and then 2014. And now 2015? I can't see any way this is good. Perhaps my 6 goals was overly optimistic!

I thought Perquis was the master of the hamstring injury, not Jozy !!

[ronzilla]

maybe he left as a precaution.

[kshep]

Aparently is was his "other" hamstring and not the one he hurt in the WC.

This good, yes?

I'm not sure if your joking or not. Lol

[Defoe]

LOL!

[Gazza_55]

maybe he left as a precaution.

He left as a precaution. No need to flip out. He played well. Bradley was a beast as well - MB totally dominated the midfield and scored directly from a corner.

[ag futbol]

I'm not sure if your joking or not. Lol
Totally joking. Gilberto can stay now!

[InDa_110]

This is in the upper end of my expectations. Honestly, I wonder if TFC wouldn't have been better off to stick with Gilberto, and see what they could get in return for letting Jozy go to another MLS team.

I get that we put the deal together because we wanted to parlay Defoe's exit into something, but by some accounts, it sounds like MLS wanted Jozy to end up in NY, and the TFC FO sort of burned the league office in landing him here. And for what? To comically overpay for a previous MLS darling (in a time that might as well have been a century ago, with how much the league has changed since then), who has had a spotty record overseas, to say the least? And when we already had Gilberto on the roster?

I hope he does well for us, and recaptures some of what he lost completely in the EPL - I just can't help but wonder if the team's strategy on all of this was wrong.

I agree with this 100 per cent. Taking this guy over Gilberto will be the worst mistake TFC has ever made. (and there have been many). I think Gilberto suits Giovinco so much better, and Gilberto will score more goals wherever he ends up than Altidore will for TFC

[molenshtain]

I agree with this 100 per cent. Taking this guy over Gilberto will be the worst mistake TFC has ever made. (and there have been many). I think Gilberto suits Giovinco so much better, and Gilberto will score more goals wherever he ends up than Altidore will for TFC

Gilberto and Altidore are very similiar players. except Altidore is bigger and better.

[Shakes McQueen]

I agree with this 100 per cent. Taking this guy over Gilberto will be the worst mistake TFC has ever made. (and there have been many). I think Gilberto suits Giovinco so much better, and Gilberto will score more goals wherever he ends up than Altidore will for TFC

There's ample reason to hope that Altidore regains the form he had prior to heading to the EPL. Heck, I'd even take his USMNT form. I'm not nearly pessimistic enough to say that this will be the worst mistake TFC has ever made.

[brad]

I'm glad the age old tradition of writing players off before they even play a game for us is alive and well

[kshep]

I'm glad the age old tradition of writing players off before they even play a game for us is alive and well

I don't think it's that so much, I think people are weary of Atlidore's past hamstring injuries coming back to bit us in the ass.

Coupled by the fact that Gilberto was rounding into form, add in the fact that we possibly could have burned some good will with the league by demanding Altidore instead of letting him go to New York (for a dump truck full of Garber bucks) has people on edge.

Many people, myself included believe the club gave up on Gilberto to soon, especially with the additions we've made to the squad this year. Yes many will site the plan was always to move Gilberto on, but he could have played for us for two more years at least, and I happen to believe that because he was just rounding into form, if he had a chance on this team he'd have lit it up this year. Which ironically would have only increased his value and options for a transfer.

If TFC moves Gilberto within MLS and he lights the league up and Altidore flops(god I hope not) the club is going to look like a bunch of idiots. As I've said before, we have to give internationals who are moving from vastly different countries, who don't speak our language and are living in a different culture more than a season to acclimate to their surrondings.

By all accounts Gilberto was fiercely loyal to the shirt, and was committed to coming back to show people he is the real deal, Gilberto didn't expect at first the league would be so hard, but you could tell that he was making his adjustments and they were beginnings to bear fruit.

Your pointing out people are giving up on Altidore before he's played a match, while many of us are looking at the proven track record of the club giving up on players to soon. (Has happened far to many times)

[brad]

Some specific responses inline- but I'm sorry, I will have to disagree. When people are posting stuff like Gilberto for Atlidore is the worst move the club has ever made - that is writing Altidore off. It assumes that Altidore is going to flop before he kicks a ball.


I don't think it's that so much, I think people are weary of Atlidore's past hamstring injuries coming back to bit us in the ass.
Definitely possible.
Coupled by the fact that Gilberto was rounding into form, add in the fact that we possibly could have burned some good will with the league by demanding Altidore instead of letting him go to New York (for a dump truck full of Garber bucks) has people on edge.
The idea that the league is mad at us is all pure speculation. And honestly if true - I don't care about that. We should do what is best for us and not worry about bowing down to league politics. More clubs need to hold them accountable to their silly rules in my opinion and not let the league walk all over them.
Many people, myself included believe the club gave up on Gilberto to soon, especially with the additions we've made to the squad this year. Yes many will site the plan was always to move Gilberto on, but he could have played for us for two more years at least, and I happen to believe that because he was just rounding into form, if he had a chance on this team he'd have lit it up this year. Which ironically would have only increased his value and options for a transfer.
I am also in the camp of folks that would like to see Gilberto for another season. I also suspect the increase in transfer value you mention is why the league likely wants to keep him - since they are the ones that profit from his sale - not us.
If TFC moves Gilberto within MLS and he lights the league up and Altidore flops(god I hope not) the club is going to look like a bunch of idiots. As I've said before, we have to give internationals who are moving from vastly different countries, who don't speak our language and are living in a different culture more than a season to acclimate to their surrondings.
For sure - agree 100%. If Altidore flops we will look bad, but if it goes the other way - which is a distinct possibility, then we will look great. Again, assuming it will pan out this way is writing Atlidore off. It's far from a given that Gilberto lights it up this season.
By all accounts Gilberto was fiercely loyal to the shirt, and was committed to coming back to show people he is the real deal, Gilberto didn't expect at first the league would be so hard, but you could tell that he was making his adjustments and they were beginnings to bear fruit.

Your pointing out people are giving up on Altidore before he's played a match, while many of us are looking at the proven track record of the club giving up on players to soon. (Has happened far to many times)
As supporters we also "have a proven track record" of writing players off before they kick a ball. This is flat out ridiculous. Atlidore may flop, he may be a star, he may fall somewhere in between.

That said, how is "our proven track record of giving up on players too soon" relevant, unless we assume that Altidore flops? What Gilberto does at another club is more or less irrelivant if Atlidore is a success here.

[Fort York Redcoat]

What, today? I didn't even know the US was playing. Good grief!

How many hamstrings does he have? He did one in 2011, and then one in 2013, and then 2014. And now 2015? I can't see any way this is good. Perhaps my 6 goals was overly optimistic!

6 goals for a an injured DP is ok around here. Even for his backup DP, apparently. At least he's a new face to complain about.

http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/36/35/6603dc5a9292104b44c349b85b5aaf7a-5-crazy-fan-theories-that-make-total-sense.jpg

[Fishnicker]

What, today? I didn't even know the US was playing. Good grief!

How many hamstrings does he have? He did one in 2011, and then one in 2013, and then 2014. And now 2015? I can't see any way this is good. Perhaps my 6 goals was overly optimistic!

Maybe this will help alleviate our concerns. http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:402100/FULLTEXT01.pdf

TLDR
- hamstring the most common injury
- hamstring injury doesn't get more prevalent with age (calf injuries do)
- quad injuries take the longest to heal
- turf has lower injury rate (gasp!)

[ronzilla]

Hold on, I'm going to try to give my crystal ball a good rub.


Oh look!, he completes the season injury-free and scores 21 goals!

[InDa_110]

There's ample reason to hope that Altidore regains the form he had prior to heading to the EPL. Heck, I'd even take his USMNT form. I'm not nearly pessimistic enough to say that this will be the worst mistake TFC has ever made.

Gilberto is more skilled. That's just a fact. My other point was that Gilberto and giovinco are more in line than Altidore. Growing up in Brazil his soccer IQ is similar to giovinco. I will take any bet from anyone who thinks altidore scores more goals than Gilberto assuming they are both in mls this year.

[kshep]

Some specific responses inline- but I'm sorry, I will have to disagree. When people are posting stuff like Gilberto for Atlidore is the worst move the club has ever made - that is writing Altidore off. It assumes that Altidore is going to flop before he kicks a ball.

Sorry was at the doctors with my kid, I agree with you. I also agree that the supporters lose faith in the players to quickly.

And I wasn't trying to assume Altidore will flop or hedge my bet or anything, I trying to highlight that the club often quits on a player before we ever see the players true potential, and that the club is often trying to hedge it's bet, instead of bringing in a target player and then not allowing said player to truly acclimate to the club, Ala bringing in Jozy and not giving Gilberto another season when he clearly showed he was truly settling in and coming in form.

[jloome]

Sorry was at the doctors with my kid, I agree with you. I also agree that the supporters lose faith in the players to quickly.

And I wasn't trying to assume Altidore will flop or hedge my bet or anything, I trying to highlight that the club often quits on a player before we ever see the players true potential, and that the club is often trying to hedge it's bet, instead of bringing in a target player and then not allowing said player to truly acclimate to the club, Ala bringing in Jozy and not giving Gilberto another season when he clearly showed he was truly settling in and coming in form.

Again, it's hyperbole to say they "gave up" on Gilberto; they may have simply felt they could get more out of Altidore. I also find the idea that Gilberto is "rounding into form" a bit laughable; if you look at his track record in Brazil, it was quite common for him in his first six years as a pro to go stretches of ten or fifteen games without a goal -- in fact, most of the time down there he played as a wide forward.

Every player has strengths and weaknesses. Altidore tends to need a free touch or a good look before scoring but he scored one-in-two in the dutch league, whcih is still better than MLS. Hell, he scored one-in-two in MLS when he was a teenager, and he's a better player now.

[jloome]

Gilberto is more skilled. That's just a fact.

Really? So you have some qualitative or quantitative data? It's not just an observation?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Gilberto is more skilled. That's just a fact. My other point was that Gilberto and giovinco are more in line than Altidore. Growing up in Brazil his soccer IQ is similar to giovinco. I will take any bet from anyone who thinks altidore scores more goals than Gilberto assuming they are both in mls this year.

That's not how it works. If we're in line with this Gilberto defense the bet should be on whether Jozy gets 7, what Gila got last year, this being Altidore's first year back in MLS, no? Otherwise we're just not giving Altidore enough time.

[brad]

Gilberto is more skilled. That's just a fact. My other point was that Gilberto and giovinco are more in line than Altidore. Growing up in Brazil his soccer IQ is similar to giovinco. I will take any bet from anyone who thinks altidore scores more goals than Gilberto assuming they are both in mls this year.

And yet Atlidore thrived in Holland - how would you explain that, considering that Dutch football isn't exactly kick and chase?

[kshep]

I can see and agree to a certain degree with both sides of the debate, Jloome.

As for Atlidore's track record, I completely agree he was a beast in the Dutch leauge, and his teen years in MLS. I would like it stated though that MLS is far from the league it was when Altidore was a teenager. Jozy grew up, but so has the league, and at this point in time I'm not certain I can define which one has aged better? We will certainly see in the coming season, hopefully Jozy finds his confidence and is able to provide us with the striker we will surely need to be successful. I hope that by being able too play with his long time friend, that he finds his mojo, because your right if he does, he could be dominate and a large factor to our success.

[brad]

Jozy hasn't lost his confidence with the USMNT, so I wouldn't worry about that. If his confidence was shot he wouldn't be scoring anywhere.

[brad]

Now, despite the back and forth - my actual opinion on all of this:

I'm not a huge fan of Altidore, and never have been. I think we could have done better on a DP striker. But he certainly has the attributes than could make him very dangerous in this league. He's a TFC player now though, and I'm going to support him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

On Gilberto - decent player, but I wasn't really that impressed with him last season. I'd like to see a second season as well to see, but I think it's far from a given that he's going to knock it out of the park next year - especially considering what jloome posted above about how he seems to be a hot and cold player.

[Ajax TFC]

Gilberto is more skilled. That's just a fact. My other point was that Gilberto and giovinco are more in line than Altidore. Growing up in Brazil his soccer IQ is similar to giovinco. I will take any bet from anyone who thinks altidore scores more goals than Gilberto assuming they are both in mls this year.
Altidore didn't have any problem in the Dutch league playing with guys like Adam Maher, Maarten Martens, and Rasmus Elm. Playing with smart players wont be a problem

[Yohan]

Gilberto is more skilled. That's just a fact. My other point was that Gilberto and giovinco are more in line than Altidore. Growing up in Brazil his soccer IQ is similar to giovinco. I will take any bet from anyone who thinks altidore scores more goals than Gilberto assuming they are both in mls this year.
being trained in Brazil does not reflect the soccer IQ a player has. Example, Jackson.

[Defoe]

being trained in Brazil does not reflect the soccer IQ a player has. Example, Jackson.

I always thought Gilberto would be a good LF because of his speed or LW. This guy is super skilled... He was snake bit early on, but it felt like every single goal was a highlight reel no sitters around the net like Moore. I absolutely hated that comparison because it is in no way a reflection of their skill. If Gilberto stays in this league I will put money on him scoring more then 12 goals, and think he could score 15-20 as a realistic number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4O1_fee5A - start at 3:30

[Fort York Redcoat]

I always thought Gilberto would be a good LF because of his speed or LW. This guy is super skilled... He was snake bit early on, but it felt like every single goal was a highlight reel no sitters around the net like Moore. I absolutely hated that comparison because it is in no way a reflection of their skill. If Gilberto stays in this league I will put money on him scoring more then 12 goals, and think he could score 15-20 as a realistic number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4O1_fee5A - start at 3:30

Why would you want to make money of an opposing players success?

[RealG-TFC]

Why would you want to make money of an opposing players success?

Answer?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Answer?

I guess that's why NFL is so popular, right? Whatever gets you by, I guess.

I just haven't heard someone show how strong they felt about something by proposing a "bet you any money on it", personally, since my playground days.

[tfcleeds]

I would have liked to see what Gilberto could do this season for us as well. But even if he did light it up this season, it probably would only hasten his departure to Europe anyway.

I'm not happy with what we spent to bring Altidore here, but I'm not going to write the guy off before he's played a match for us.

[Defoe]

Why would you want to make money of an opposing players success?
Well, I bet 200 dollars the leafs wouldn't make the playoffs, despite being a leaf fan. Pretty happy with that decision. I'm stating my confidence in my belief he will do well in this league. I hope Gilberto does well, he's a hard worker and very skilled. He worked hard for TFC, and was my favourite player. It doesn't seem like he's forcing his way out of town either. The success he will have in this league is inevitable. I will wish him the best... Why can't I cheer for Gilberto when he's not playing against TFC?

[Defoe]

I guess that's why NFL is so popular, right? Whatever gets you by, I guess.

I just haven't heard someone show how strong they felt about something by proposing a "bet you any money on it", personally, since my playground days.

Huh When did I say "Any" money. I'm not Bill Gates... You must not get out much because placing bets is quite common man! I don't get it... do you have problems with bets or something?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Huh When did I say "Any" money. I'm not Bill Gates... You must not get out much because placing bets is quite common man! I don't get it... do you have problems with bets or something?

Free country, Defoe. But one saying they'd bet with someone on a subject doesn't make one sound any more confident in one's opinion than if one uses facts to debate the point with. It's backing up your conjecture with chance, nothing more, with a proposition like that.

And next time I'll "get out" is to the season opener at Shoeless Joe's and most every other away game. Feel free to stop by any time.

[Defoe]

Free country, Defoe. But one saying they'd bet with someone on a subject doesn't make one sound any more confident in one's opinion than if one uses facts to debate the point with. It's backing up your conjecture with chance, nothing more, with a proposition like that.

And next time I'll "get out" is to the season opener at Shoeless Joe's and most every other away game. Feel free to stop by any time.

Okay sure would love too. But theres no facts based on this it's just opinion. I think Gilberto will have a good season, would actually literally put money on him scoring more then 15 goals in MLS. I think he's a hell of a player and would gladly put a friendly wager on it.

Ps - I really wish I could change my username, this is like the 3rd time someone has called me "Defoe"

[Fort York Redcoat]

Okay sure would love too. But theres no facts based on this it's just opinion. I think Gilberto will have a good season, would actually literally put money on him scoring more then 15 goals in MLS. I think he's a hell of a player and would gladly put a friendly wager on it.

Ps - I really wish I could change my username, this is like the 3rd time someone has called me "Defoe"

That's not unprecedent. Just leave the actual money betting to real life interactions. Not here. There's plenty of friendly beer wagers that happen every year if you're that interested. I'm sure someone would take you up on it.

And go here (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/forumdisplay.php?30-Website-amp-Forum-Tech-Support-Suggestions)

and start a name change thread. Just include what you want it to be. Try to pick one you'll be happen with for a while.

I get you're excited and confident for the player. I can feel your excitement from here. Hope to see you at Joe's.

[Yohan]

Ps - I really wish I could change my username, this is like the 3rd time someone has called me "Defoe"
there is a forum to request name changes and stuff

[TFC07]

I personally think Altidore will do fine for us. I think playing with Bradley will do wonders for Altidore game.

He is least of my concern (for now), I still wondering how we will do defensively though. That seems to be a big question mark for this team.

[Alonso]

Gilberto is more skilled. That's just a fact. My other point was that Gilberto and giovinco are more in line than Altidore. Growing up in Brazil his soccer IQ is similar to giovinco. I will take any bet from anyone who thinks altidore scores more goals than Gilberto assuming they are both in mls this year.




Yeah I lost that bet last year to Canary with respect to Urruti and Gilberto, it would be par for the course if Gilberto then outscores Altidore for an opposing MLS team this up coming season.

Pretty sweet that we have two strikers and a DM playing better for other teams than their replacements here at TFC.

I'm perennially optimistic and naive when it comes to this club though... and this year TFC, Giovinco, Altidore, Gilberto (that's right.. he's staying), Bradley et al are going to tear this league apart!



PS. Canary, I still owe you a beer I think for that Urruti bet....

[Fort York Redcoat]

Okay sure would love too. But theres no facts based on this it's just opinion. I think Gilberto will have a good season, would actually literally put money on him scoring more then 15 goals in MLS. I think he's a hell of a player and would gladly put a friendly wager on it.




That's not unprecedent. Just leave the actual money betting to real life interactions. Not here. There's plenty of friendly beer wagers that happen every year if you're that interested. I'm sure someone would take you up on it.




I will take any bet from anyone who thinks altidore scores more goals than Gilberto assuming they are both in mls this year.


Yeah I lost that bet last year to Canary with respect to Urruti and Gilberto, it would be par for the course if Gilberto then outscores Altidore for an opposing MLS team this up coming season.

Pretty sweet that we have two strikers and a DM playing better for other teams than their replacements here at TFC.

I'm perennially optimistic and naive when it comes to this club though... and this year TFC, Giovinco, Altidore, Gilberto (that's right.. he's staying), Bradley et al are going to tear this league apart!



PS. Canary, I still owe you a beer I think for that Urruti bet....

Calling - DEFOE!!!

I knew an example wasn't far away!:)

[Fort York Redcoat]

Bumping.

Jozy reached the 11 that Defoe got last year. And now the the 12th several people expected out of him. Worthy of mention.

[FRANKIE65]

Jozy has found his groove, now, for sure. Making use of that size, and, poaching like he needs to! Has a decent shot at 14 with three games (if he doesn't miss the energy drink game) left.

[Pint]

I like how his give a fuck meter is much higher than the waste of space he replaced.

[Bobo]

Definitely a respectable output given his injuries and international call ups. However, when you take into account several PKs, a few Luke Mooreish goals and 0 assists, it hasn't left us with much of a game changer. Can't help but feel that with his absurdly high salary and his market value in the States, a trade really would benefit this team in the offseason. You just know he would kill TFC though. For now he's definitely a TFC player and I enjoy watching the ox tossing opposing defenders around.

[pdubs]

He is only 25, turning 26 later this year. Next season I think he will progress even further. Netting 12 in 25 is a great pace. If for the remainder of his contract he can net 12-15 in 30 then I will be happy.

He needs to shoot more and I wish he could be an aerial threat but that is just not in his game.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Definitely a respectable output given his injuries and international call ups. However, when you take into account several PKs, a few Luke Mooreish goals and 0 assists, it hasn't left us with much of a game changer. Can't help but feel that with his absurdly high salary and his market value in the States, a trade really would benefit this team in the offseason. You just know he would kill TFC though. For now he's definitely a TFC player and I enjoy watching the ox tossing opposing defenders around.

When we made countless critiques on the decision of Altidore for Defoe and he's delivered the same number I call it a win. I'm not worried about any other dollar value comparison this year with a Seba in our teamsheet.

[Red CB Toronto]

When we made countless critiques on the decision of Altidore for Defoe and he's delivered the same number I call it a win. I'm not worried about any other dollar value comparison this year with a Seba in our teamsheet.

Plus the passion and just the fact that he is happy to be here makes him far more attractive than how JD was conducting himself towards the end of last season.

[Oldtimer]

Bumping.

Jozy reached the 11 that Defoe got last year. And now the the 12th several people expected out of him. Worthy of mention.

Jozy's a bloody big deal!


I like how his give a fuck meter is much higher than the waste of space he replaced.


When we made countless critiques on the decision of Altidore for Defoe and he's delivered the same number I call it a win. I'm not worried about any other dollar value comparison this year with a Seba in our teamsheet.

If you replace a player with a bad attitude with an equivalent or better producing one with a good attitude, it's a win for sure.

[Richard]

Altidore for Defoe was genius swap, of course the stars had to align for it to happen but thats a deal I make any day if given the chance.

Onwards and upwards for him I think, having Altidore slink in behind Giovinco is amazing option to have on offense going forward.

[Ajax TFC]

Plus altidore plays second fiddle and doesn't complain about it. Can you imagine Defoe screaming at giovinco for not passing to him every time he takes a shot himself? The scary thing is that I can imagine it quite vividly.

[Detroit_TFC]

Plus altidore plays second fiddle and doesn't complain about it. Can you imagine Defoe screaming at giovinco for not passing to him every time he takes a shot himself? The scary thing is that I can imagine it quite vividly.

I didn't think about that, oh man that would have been brutal.

[Red CB Toronto]

Plus altidore plays second fiddle and doesn't complain about it. Can you imagine Defoe screaming at giovinco for not passing to him every time he takes a shot himself? The scary thing is that I can imagine it quite vividly.


I didn't think about that, oh man that would have been brutal.

Well Gilberto was subject to that last year with Defoe, so with Seba here this year with his amazing shot on net rate and goals it is quite refreshing that Jozy is here now and not Jermain.

[Auzzy]

I would still say Altidore is overpaid for his output compared to other forwards in the league. Confidence is crucial for Altidore, so things can go either way for him. It really helps that he's still farely young. In any case, Altidore was the price for getting rid of Defoe. Both clubs and the players wanted to save some face. So good output & good attitude means it's a win.

[ensco]

Jozy gets a B/B+ for 2015. Showed flashes, overall scoring rate was OK. Mostly buries his chances. Got hurt, I think that affected him for a lot of the year (may still be bothering him).

Can't create like Gio can so he's a lot more exposed to our MF issues.

Lots of reasons to hope for more next year.

[MightyDM]

When he is on Jozy is a real contributor, when he is off its hard to get angry with him. Better fit for TFC for sure, although as a pure goal scorer in this league Deofe was way ahead. I see the transactions as Givoinco for Defoe and Jozy for Gilberto. Looked at that way, it's a massive upgrade.

[Richard]

We also have to remember that Sunderland destroyed his confidence as a striker, some players don't ever come back from doing nothing for two years, especially when you are playing as a striker.

[ManUtd4ever]

His strike rate pro rated over a full season is 16 goals. Can't ask for much more than that.

[ag futbol]

Jozy gets a B/B+ for 2015. Showed flashes, overall scoring rate was OK. Mostly buries his chances. Got hurt, I think that affected him for a lot of the year (may still be bothering him).

Can't create like Gio can so he's a lot more exposed to our MF issues.

Lots of reasons to hope for more next year.
What's crazy is we have put up a ton of goals and it could still get better. Better fullback play / wide options could completely open the floodgates.

[MightyDM]

What's crazy is we have put up a ton of goals and it could still get better. Better fullback play / wide options could completely open the floodgates.

At both ends....

[ag futbol]

At both ends....
Yeah that too.

[prizby]

We also have to remember that Sunderland destroyed his confidence as a striker, some players don't ever come back from doing nothing for two years, especially when you are playing as a striker.

but we had to take a $4.75M chance on that...just saying

[ensco]

His hamstring may be a very major problem, not sure he has been right since the WC.

[ManUtd4ever]

His hamstring may be a very major problem, not sure he has been right since the WC.

He hasn't been the same since his injury, no question. Credit to him for still being able to contribute when he's had opportunities though. I think he is one of the most clinical finishers we've ever had. Reminds me of Koevermans in that regard in that he doesn't waste many scoring chances.

[Detroit_TFC]

I'm a bit eager to see how JA does next season. While there is a danger that he might become complacent, I'm optimistic that increased stability in his situation (playing and otherwise) might pay dividends next season.

[OfficeGuy]

Altidore - could become the Kessel of TFC

I thought he would have made a bigger splash - but he is scoring goals and it's all good for the cause.

[OgtheDim]

Altidore - could become the Kessel of TFC

.

What uncommunicative, combative, spoiled rotten, dismissive of the fans and eventually traded to Pittsburgh?

Don't think so.

[KGH]

I don't get all the Altidore hate. Statistically he's been our second best striker ever (behind Gio) while having to play with a teammate who's taken 174 shots (same guy) to his 34. All this while recovering from a lingering hammy injury.

He's currently #10 in MLS for goals with 12 Goals and 0.63 Goals per 90. In a single season only Gio and Dero have scored more Goals while only Danny K & JD have had a better G/90.

USMNT forwards in MLS:
Altidore - 24 GP, 1706 Min, 12 Goals, 34 shots, 0.63 G/90
Dempsey - 18 GP, 1587 Min, 8 Goals, 55 shots, 0.45 G/90
Wondo - 29 GP, 2508 Min, 16 Goals, 85 shots, 0.57 G/90
Zardes - 27 GP, 2274 Min, 6 Goals, 41 shots, 0,24 G/90


For S&G's our top 2 goal scorers each year:
2014 - Jermaine Defoe - 11 Goals and 0.65 G/90
2014 - Gilberto - 7 Goal and 0.32 G/90
2013 - Earnshaw - 8 goals and 0.38 G/90
2013 - Osario - 5 goals and 0.27 G/90
2012 - Danny K - 9 goals and 0.67 G/90
2012 - R Johnson - 7 Goals and 0.23 G/90
2011 - Danny K - 8 Goals and 0.95 G/90
2011 - M Santos - 6 Goals and 0.43 G/90
2010 - Dero - 15 Goals and 0.61 G/90
2010 - Barrett - 7 Goals and 0.41 G/90
2009 - Dero - 11 Goals and 0.41 G/90
2009 - Guevera - 5 Goals and 0.23 G/90
2008 - DD - 5 Goals and 0.31 G/90
2008 - Barrett - 4 Goals and 0.36 G/90
2007 - DD - 6 Goal and 0.46 G/90
2007 - Edu - 4 goals and 0.17 G/90

[Prof]

It is amazing to see how few goals our top scorers were scoring in the past.

[SenorDingDong]

Altidore is great. Plus the players on the team absolutely love him. Giovinco especially who I think he shares the closest bond with. You can see it every time he scores a goal.

He seems like the type of guy who lights everyone up in the dressing room. For a season where he has been half injured and half on the USMNT team he's done a damn good job.

[C.Ronaldo]

yah, season 2 is where i'll be holding judgment
But so far Im happy

what im not happy with, not enough marketing of him in Toronto. He is a friendly giant freak of nature, he has TV all over him. Why do I not see him on frozen vegetable ads subbing in for the green giant

[trane]

I am not sure where all this hate for Altidore comes from. He does exactly what I expected him to do, and hoped he would do. He creates space for Gio, who plays off him, he is a decent passer ( as far as his position is concenred) he mostly gets to the right space and gets the ball back to the right space, and when he gets an opportunity he finishes at a very decent rate. That is what you expect from your CF. I thought he was going to score 10-15. I am very happy with him.

With every player there are limitations, our best player can be criticized for not being a great defensive presence, but he does not need to be. Even Messi and Rolando cannot do everything right, that is why on the football field you tend to see five plus different types of players, because different positions call for different athletes and different skills sets, and even mentalities. (Bradley has the skills, physicality and footbal IQ to be an great CDM, but his aggressiveness makes him a liability for example).

[Auzzy]

I've read twice now "all this hate for Altidore" in recent posts. But when I read all the other posts from yesterday and today, I don't really see any hate. What gives? Most people seems quite happy with Altidore's output. Everyone is happy with his attitude especially compared with Defoe. The stats analysis above is illuminating -- looking even better than I thought. People have commented on confidence, injury impacts, etc. but that's not hate.

[Ajax TFC]

I've read twice now "all this hate for Altidore" in recent posts. But when I read all the other posts from yesterday and today, I don't really see any hate. What gives? Most people seems quite happy with Altidore's output. Everyone is happy with his attitude especially compared with Defoe. The stats analysis above is illuminating -- looking even better than I thought. People have commented on confidence, injury impacts, etc. but that's not hate.

Maybe not in this thread, but there's been plenty of discontent with his play in previous threads. The most recent example being the Chicago game thread where there were a lot of posts saying things like trade Altidore for Gilberto

[Fort York Redcoat]

I've read twice now "all this hate for Altidore" in recent posts. But when I read all the other posts from yesterday and today, I don't really see any hate. What gives? Most people seems quite happy with Altidore's output. Everyone is happy with his attitude especially compared with Defoe. The stats analysis above is illuminating -- looking even better than I thought. People have commented on confidence, injury impacts, etc. but that's not hate.


Maybe not in this thread, but there's been plenty of discontent with his play in previous threads. The most recent example being the Chicago game thread where there were a lot of posts saying things like trade Altidore for Gilberto

Game threads.

Where you could pretty much find any kind of hate.

[KGH]

Form the Chicago Thread:

I wonder if Chicago would be dumb enough in the offseason to take Jozy straight up for Gilberto? - Jloome

That would be sweet! - kwhisperer

Goalberto>>>Altidore. - nonc

When was the last time Jozy touched the ball? - Jloome

That embarrassingly inept attempt in the box about 10 minutes ago. -kwhisperer

Watch him run. He's so bulked up up top he can't swing his arms properly. I'm not kidding. - Jloome

So Jozy. Does nothing all game, then.... - Jloome

Dozer is the best nickname ever for him. Suits every aspect of his game! - Jloome

Altidore's first touch was atrocious today and I was getting more and more frustrated with him - notthesun

Gilberto also hasn't had a strike partner like Giovinco. Gilberto is more complete and athletic than Altidore - I would love to see him together with Gio. Highly unlikely to happen, of course, but it's perfectly reasonable able to think Gilberto just might do better than Altidore. - kwhisperer

If I had my druthers, I would have rather have had Gilberto up there - I think he'd have been a better fit. I might be wrong but it's not crazy talk. - kwhisperer

[Auzzy]

^ OK that makes sense.

[MartinUtd]

While I'm happy with the output, I'm not happy with his lack of consistency or that fact that he comes off as mentally weak. Kicking out at other players is never a good sign and we've seen him act foolishly on a few occasions throughout the season.

Having said that, I don't think we should trade him unless a situation comes up where it betters the club. Now let's see how things look midway though 2016.

[notthesun]

- notthesun



Altidore's first touch was atrocious today and I was getting more and more frustrated with him, but then he scored the winner... as usual, mixed feelings on him for me.

Please don't quote me selectively to prove a point or fit a narrative. I hardly see how the above would qualify as "hate".

[Red I]

Please don't quote me selectively to prove a point or fit a narrative.

Um, this a forum, which is a platform for debate, of which i would think it is perfectly natural to pull previous speech from people to prove a point - you can simply clarify the context or if you changed your mind, etc. I don't think the person is trying to paint you in a negative light or anything.

[MartinUtd]

But it's not hating on the player. I swear half the "debates" on this forum are spurred by over sensitivity.

[notthesun]

Um, this a forum, which is a platform for debate, of which i would think it is perfectly natural to pull previous speech from people to prove a point - you can simply clarify the context or if you changed your mind, etc. I don't think the person is trying to paint you in a negative light or anything.

I have no problem with anyone quoting anything I've said as long as it's done fairly. I don't think that was fair - given the post was made to show examples of "hate" for Altidore on this board - when what I said obviously does not qualify as hate unless you only quote the first part.

[Fort York Redcoat]

But it's not hating on the player. I swear half the "debates" on this forum are spurred by over sensitivity.

It's Oversensitivity or Over-sensitivity

NOT

Over Sensitivity!1!!1!

Gawd!~g:D

[MartinUtd]

Like...whatever

[Auzzy]

It's Oversensitivity or Over-sensitivity

NOT

Over Sensitivity!1!!1!

Gawd!~g:D

Hey I got the joke at least, nice one :D

[jloome]

He is only 25, turning 26 later this year. Next season I think he will progress even further. Netting 12 in 25 is a great pace. If for the remainder of his contract he can net 12-15 in 30 then I will be happy.

He needs to shoot more and I wish he could be an aerial threat but that is just not in his game.

Understatement of the century. He only has sixteen shots this season and eleven goals. That's almost unheard of.

[shwade]

Understatement of the century. He only has sixteen shots this season and eleven goals. That's almost unheard of.

8 goals on 16 shots sounds hella good but it seems like he needs the ball placed on a silver platter for him to take a shot.

[Ultra & Proud]

8 goals on 16 shots sounds hella good but it seems like he needs the ball placed on a silver platter for him to take a shot.
A lot of times he just isn't in the right spots. The burning question is whether that's the game plan or does Jozy just wander wide?

Regardless, he's done the job and he's trending up at the right time of year. He's had his freak out moments but I'll buy what he said in his interview that he had an off field issue that affected his game on top of the injuries. He said it was cleared up in the summer and that coincides with his upturn in form. Things happen and for the most part, he's been a quality 2nd forward. Could he be better? Of course but it's not like we got the falling over the ball in Sunderland Jozy here.

[ag futbol]

8 goals on 16 shots sounds hella good but it seems like he needs the ball placed on a silver platter for him to take a shot.
I guess if you're cynical you'd say the only stat that matters is goals... But I completely agree with your point. I'd like to see him be a little more aggressive out there in front of goal.

The off field issue mentioned makes sense. He really looked out of it a few games there but he bounced back.

[kwhisperer]

I have no problem with anyone quoting anything I've said as long as it's done fairly. I don't think that was fair - given the post was made to show examples of "hate" for Altidore on this board - when what I said obviously does not qualify as hate unless you only quote the first part.


I see I was also quoted a few times there to show how there is "hate" for Altidore on the board, yet in the same messages I also praised Altidore's good qualities and made the point that I like and root for him. Hardly justifies the overly-used H-word.

[Ajax TFC]

I swear half the "debates" on this forum are spurred by over sensitivity.
How dare you talk about me like that! g:D

There's actually so much truth to this statement.

[MartinUtd]

"I'll fucking kill that straw man."

[C.Ronaldo]

he really could work on his aerial game

there really isnt any excuse for not being better at it, hes tall and thick, it should be admn near impossible for someone to win the ball in the air from him

[KGH]

Please quote me selectively to prove a point. I see how the above would qualify as "hate".

Fair point. g:Dg:D

Just kidding. For those that didn't notice I removed some words in the above quote to fit my narrative.

But back on point I simply scanned the Chicago game thread and pulled where people were mentioning Jozy.

[ManUtd4ever]

yah, season 2 is where i'll be holding judgment
But so far Im happy

what im not happy with, not enough marketing of him in Toronto. He is a friendly giant freak of nature, he has TV all over him. Why do I not see him on frozen vegetable ads subbing in for the green giant

Unfortunately, I think most people in this city have no clue who he is.

[molenshtain]

Unfortunately, I think most people in this city have no clue who he is.

he's more recognizable to a lot of people in this city than Giovinco. it's weird.

[KGH]

he's more recognizable to a lot of people in this city than Giovinco. it's weird.

That's cause he's closer to eye level with most people g:D

[dupont]

he's more recognizable to a lot of people in this city than Giovinco. it's weird.

The waiter at the restaurant I ate at last night mentioned Giovinco. Apparently his awesome goal from a few weeks back went somewhat viral.

On the Jozy topic, I've liked him from the very beginning. He is one of my favourites. Chemistry is important and he is a positive force on the other players. Unlike Defoe who was so negative and dragged everyone down.

[ronzilla]

he's more recognizable to a lot of people in this city than Giovinco. it's weird.

Not true. Seba has made headlines and front page of many sports media outlets throughout the year while Jozy's exposure is very limited.

[trane]

Understatement of the century. He only has sixteen shots this season and eleven goals. That's almost unheard of.

That speaks to his strengths and weakness. I was just in a business/political meeting and a friend quoted Churchill "I believe", that our greatest strengths are also our weaknesses , and this seems really on point with this stat. Great positive that he can get 11 goals out of 16 goals ( or 8 if you will), but it is a bloody shame that he cannot get another 16.

Now I would imagine that with more shots his conversion ration would also go way down, but still one would imagine that if he could get a three shots a game he would be scoring 15-20 a season easily.

[MartinUtd]

That speaks to his strengths and weakness. I was just in a business/political meeting and a friend quoted Churchill "I believe", that our greatest strengths are also our weaknesses , and this seems really on point with this stat. Great positive that he can get 11 goals out of 16 goals ( or 8 if you will), but it is a bloody shame that he cannot get another 16.

Now I would imagine that with more shots his conversion ration would also go way down, but still one would imagine that if he could get a three shots a game he would be scoring 15-20 a season easily.


There's been numerous times when he's looked out of step with his team mates, whether it be making an ill timed run or a pass 2 feet behind another player who's running in on goal. I'm certain these can be remedied to an extent. I'd hope that after this season the forwards will all be on the same page.

[molenshtain]

Not true. Seba has made headlines and front page of many sports media outlets throughout the year while Jozy's exposure is very limited.

When talking about the team, multiple times people have told me the only players they know on the team are Bradley and Altidore. These are people who do not go to games and have no idea what's actually going on with the team. I think Altidore is more well known in that demographic, whatever it is. that's all im saying.

[trane]

^ The only demographic in which Altidore could possibly be better known then Giovinco is the " we only follow US soccer" demographic. Giovinco is a name in world football. Not the biggest name but a name to those who follow the game internationally.

[Ivy]

^ The only demographic in which Altidore could possibly be better known then Giovinco is the " we only follow US soccer" demographic. Giovinco is a name in world football. Not the biggest name but a name to those who follow the game internationally.

This is truth.
If you follow Euro football, you have to know Giovinco. Especially when Juve bought him back.

[Areathrasher]

This is a good a listen http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/08/podcast-jozy-altidore-usa-mexico-concacaf-cup-fifa-blatter-platini

Jozy with Wahl and Strauss.

[jabbronies]

^ The only demographic in which Altidore could possibly be better known then Giovinco is the " we only follow US soccer" demographic. Giovinco is a name in world football. Not the biggest name but a name to those who follow the game internationally.

Does seem odd that people would know Bradley/Altidore over Giovinco.
Bradley I can see maybe cos he was part of the Big Bloody Bollocks. Altidore maybe from his EPL days? but still hard to believe.

Most of the Italians who follow Serie A that I spoke to when he was on his way knew who he was and knew he would run the league. I knew nothing of him.

[Richard]

This is a good a listen http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/08/podcast-jozy-altidore-usa-mexico-concacaf-cup-fifa-blatter-platini

Jozy with Wahl and Strauss.

I like that part where Altidore talks about confidence haha.

[OgtheDim]

Altidore narratives all over the place after the USMNT game yesterday. I would note that he has changed his approach to defence in the last few weeks and is coming back - unlike Dempsey who seems to have never recovered from the 2 a days Jurgen was doing back in January.

At this rate, the USMNT ain't making the World Cup in 2018. Good news for us I suppose. (I fully expect both Jozy and Bradley to still be on this team that year)

[trane]

Does seem odd that people would know Bradley/Altidore over Giovinco.
Bradley I can see maybe cos he was part of the Big Bloody Bollocks. Altidore maybe from his EPL days? but still hard to believe.

Most of the Italians who follow Serie A that I spoke to when he was on his way knew who he was and knew he would run the league. I knew nothing of him.

It is certainly possible to follow football and not to have heard about him. He was not a super star. But I follow Serie A closely, I follow the EPL less closely these days, but I also follow European football in general, I would think that most of those like me, that is that follow European football in general would have heard about Giovinco because of the Juve connection. But not impossible he is not Pirlo, Chielini , Buffon ect.

[OgtheDim]

Altidore in the starting lineup for the US tonight.

[notthesun]

Altidore in the starting lineup for the US tonight.

Got the captain's armband as well.

[ag futbol]

^ The only demographic in which Altidore could possibly be better known then Giovinco is the " we only follow US soccer" demographic. Giovinco is a name in world football. Not the biggest name but a name to those who follow the game internationally.
Have to disagree with you here. Given the rise of the premier league and the diminishing presence of Series A on Canadian TV I've had more than a few non-Americans give the old double take wondering where giovinco came from vs. Altidore.

Needless to say if I were a personal taste coach I might suggest following more euro teams and less EPL basement dwellers ... But I digress. Kids these days...r

[Areathrasher]

taken off at half time

[brad]

It is certainly possible to follow football and not to have heard about him. He was not a super star. But I follow Serie A closely, I follow the EPL less closely these days, but I also follow European football in general, I would think that most of those like me, that is that follow European football in general would have heard about Giovinco because of the Juve connection. But not impossible he is not Pirlo, Chielini , Buffon ect.

I follow the EPL and pay less and less attention to the Serie A (used to watch it a lot up until about 2005, but don't really anymore), and I've seen plenty of Gio in the Champions League and with the Azzuri. I'd guess I've seen Gio play more than Altidore in the pre-TFC days. Nothing against the Serie A - I just don't have enough time to watch as much football as I used to.


Have to disagree with you here. Given the rise of the premier league and the diminishing presence of Series A on Canadian TV I've had more than a few non-Americans give the old double take wondering where giovinco came from vs. Altidore.

Needless to say if I were a personal taste coach I might suggest following more euro teams and less EPL basement dwellers ... But I digress. Kids these days...r

A large number of EPL followers I know follow the top teams and Champions League (including the non-English CL teams), paying very little attention to the bottom feeders like Sunderland (beyond when they are playing the top teams). I can't think of too many people that pay attention to Sunderland. That is before the relegation battle heats up. The bottom dwellers are a lot of fun to watch when fighting for their survivial

As an EPL fan that doesn't really follow the Serie A - I have a hard time believing many people around here know Altidore and not Gio. Wouldn't surprise me one bit in the US though.