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jloome
02-04-2015, 05:13 PM
Caldwell is a good leader and a solid guy; he hasn't done anything to deserve losing the captaincy, as far as I can tell. At the same time, Bradley is also a leader, speaks Italian fluently, and links up the back and front of the pitch.

Co-captains?

Yohan
02-04-2015, 05:15 PM
Probably end up something like what happened at Portland with Jack Jewsbury becoming the 'club captain' or something and Will Johnson is the 'team captain' and wears the armband

OgtheDim
02-04-2015, 05:21 PM
Bradley is a smart boy. He will come back, and before he talks to the media, he will go to Caldwell and say "Your the captain." Then he will repeat that to the media when asked.

End of story.

Anything else is just stupid and gets in the way of a feel good preseason.

TFC07
02-04-2015, 05:22 PM
No, Bradley should be lone captain. Caldwell is part of old regime and doesn't have much credibility to lead DP's and experience Euro players.

Ivy
02-04-2015, 05:28 PM
No, Bradley should be lone captain. Caldwell is part of old regime and doesn't have much credibility to lead DP's and experience Euro players.

Thats so wrong.

ensco
02-04-2015, 05:30 PM
If Caldwell doesn't step aside voluntarily, he should be moved.

TFC07
02-04-2015, 05:34 PM
Thats so wrong.

It's truth though especially in Caldwell's case who isn't that good and only became a leader when there was no one else on this team that was good during his first year. Now we got much better players and veteran players who have played higher level who can bring a lot more credibility and get younger players to listen and respect them a lot more than Caldwell.

prizby
02-04-2015, 05:49 PM
why does this matter; Caldwell is likely going to retire at the end of the year; we all know it is Bradley's time after that, lets move on

Defoe
02-04-2015, 05:50 PM
Probably end up something like what happened at Portland with Jack Jewsbury becoming the 'club captain' or something and Will Johnson is the 'team captain' and wears the armband

I think both are great options, wonderful problem to have. I like the club captain, team captain idea.

ronzilla
02-04-2015, 06:01 PM
Bradley should be captain.

Ivy
02-04-2015, 06:04 PM
If Bradley is made captain now, there's going to be a power struggle and locker room issues.

You can choose to believe me or not, but most of the guys see Caldwell as captain.

cubr
02-04-2015, 06:10 PM
I'm kind of on the fence on this one. Whoever the players decide is fine by me. I think it would be unneeded drama to forcibly remove it and give it to someone. Caldwell has been captain for every club he's been a part of, he loves the job and he seems to get involved a lot in team events outside of the pitch as well. Don't get me wrong, Bradley is a good captain too, but he's too busy with USMNT to always be there. The club vs team captain is an interesting concept. I just hope it's not forced and that the players decide. Whoever the players pick, it's hard not to respect that decision, and both guys are true professionals.

Kaz
02-04-2015, 06:20 PM
I figured it was going to be Bekker before we traded him.

shwade
02-04-2015, 06:35 PM
Captain was the least of our worries last year, no need to potentially start a shit fest...Caldwell has stated he'd like to retain the armband. Bradley can take it next year.

Jpexxx
02-04-2015, 07:26 PM
Personally, I feel like it would be pretty disrespectful to strip Caldwell of the armband.

He has said himself that he has captained every team he's played for. I don't take that as him tooting his own horn, it takes certain qualities to be a good captain, and clearly Caldwell has exhibited those everywhere he's gone.

It's not like the boys won't look up to Bradley as a leader if he's not wearing the armband... He's an obvious leader and an obvious choice for the armband once Caldwell retires.

BuSaPuNk
02-04-2015, 09:13 PM
It's truth though especially in Caldwell's case who isn't that good and only became a leader when there was no one else on this team that was good during his first year. Now we got much better players and veteran players who have played higher level who can bring a lot more credibility and get younger players to listen and respect them a lot more than Caldwell.

It's not truth the locker room knows and believes that Caldwell is the captain on that squad. You don't screw with it. He's captain End of story.

This wouldn't be an issue with reporters wouldn't ask stupid questions before a preseason game was even played.

Vanney showed his inexperience by not just shooting down the question and saying Caldwell is our captain end of.

ManUtd4ever
02-04-2015, 09:22 PM
If Caldwell doesn't step aside voluntarily, he should be moved.

Based on his recent interview, there is no chance he would voluntarily relinquish the captaincy. That being said, I don't think that is just cause for his departure.

Bradley will have the armband soon enough.

ManUtd4ever
02-04-2015, 09:24 PM
It's truth though especially in Caldwell's case who isn't that good and only became a leader when there was no one else on this team that was good during his first year. Now we got much better players and veteran players who have played higher level who can bring a lot more credibility and get younger players to listen and respect them a lot more than Caldwell.

Caldwell has been the captain of every club he has played for throughout his career.

I fully support Bradley wearing the armband...in due course. No need to rock the boat.

Eastend
02-04-2015, 09:31 PM
No need to change this and stir the shit for nothing......Also not sure what being fluent in Italian has to do with being the captain.

Dom

TFC07
02-04-2015, 09:32 PM
It's not truth the locker room knows and believes that Caldwell is the captain on that squad. You don't screw with it. He's captain End of story.

This wouldn't be an issue with reporters wouldn't ask stupid questions before a preseason game was even played.

Vanney showed his inexperience by not just shooting down the question and saying Caldwell is our captain end of.

Based on what? Bradley has been "acting" like captain during off-season and the fact Vanney didn't shoot down the question further proves that Caldwell isn't shoe in to be "our" captain this season. Also, we slowly saw end of last season Bradely was becoming more vocal leader on-field as well.

EastYork
02-04-2015, 09:35 PM
As a supporter, I see this team as Bradley's team but I am not a TFC player and I don't have access to the dressing room to see who the players look up to. In many European clubs, the players vote and pick the three team captains, which I would do if I was Vanney

TFC07
02-04-2015, 09:36 PM
Caldwell has been the captain of every club he has played for throughout his career.

I fully support Bradley wearing the armband...in due course. No need to rock the boat.

Bradley is leader of this team both on-field (which we saw end of the season) and off-field (recruiting Jozy to giving his input on player signings) now. Caldwell isn't going to captain much longer on this team. He's just leftover from previous regime and probably would been let go this season if it wasn't for his guarantee contract.

TFC07
02-04-2015, 09:39 PM
As a supporter, I see this team as Bradley's team but I am not a TFC player and I don't have access to the dressing room to see who the players look up to. In many European clubs, the players vote and pick the three team captains, which I would do if I was Vanney

In North America, it's usually coach reward captain title which we saw last season when Nelsen made Caldwell captain instead of Bradley. I wouldn't be surprise to see same happen here where Vanney chooses captain.

EastYork
02-04-2015, 09:43 PM
I am aware of how most teams choose a captain in North America but I prefer the European way as it makes more sense. The players will be the ones led by their captain, so they should be the ones picking him.

BuSaPuNk
02-04-2015, 10:04 PM
Based on what? Bradley has been "acting" like captain during off-season and the fact Vanney didn't shoot down the question further proves that Caldwell isn't shoe in to be "our" captain this season. Also, we slowly saw end of last season Bradely was becoming more vocal leader on-field as well.

Based on the conversation I had with two players that are in that locker room that has said that everyone in that room know Caldwell is captain.

Bradley is always going to be vocal that's who he is. He will be captain soon enough. He has respect for Steven and wouldn't step on toes. He knows his role on this club.

kshep
02-04-2015, 10:53 PM
I like Bradley and I figure he'll be captain at some point, but I also think he's a tad over emotional/whiny with the ref too often. Far to many times last year it was embarrassing to watch him question every decision rather than just get to playing imo.

TFC07
02-04-2015, 11:13 PM
Based on the conversation I had with two players that are in that locker room that has said that everyone in that room know Caldwell is captain.

Bradley is always going to be vocal that's who he is. He will be captain soon enough. He has respect for Steven and wouldn't step on toes. He knows his role on this club.

Are you referring to new players? There's a lot of new players (most of them probably end up in the starting line up) and new coaching staff this season. This completely different team with different philosophy, so I could easily see Bradley being captain with this new team.

Vanney could have easily said Caldwell is the captain when asked, but he didn't. That to me speaks volume more than anything else said on here. New players are going to dictate this team both on-field and off-field.

I would love to know which players you had this conversation and when exactly you had this conversation.

Ajax TFC
02-05-2015, 12:03 AM
Regardless of who wears the armband, this is clearly Bradley's team. I think Bradley and Caldwell should be able to lead the team together in their own ways without the official captaincy being an issue. You also don't need your main guy to be the captain, even if he's a leader on the pitch. If you think back to Barcelona of 2009-2011, Xavi was the center-point of that team, but Puyol was the undisputed captain.

BuSaPuNk
02-05-2015, 09:06 AM
Are you referring to new players? There's a lot of new players (most of them probably end up in the starting line up) and new coaching staff this season. This completely different team with different philosophy, so I could easily see Bradley being captain with this new team.

Vanney could have easily said Caldwell is the captain when asked, but he didn't. That to me speaks volume more than anything else said on here. New players are going to dictate this team both on-field and off-field.

I would love to know which players you had this conversation and when exactly you had this conversation.

Weideman and Hall near the end of last season. Both of them were very clear that the locker room knows that Caldwell is captain even after how Bradley is. They all feel he is the right man to be captain.

Plus if the argument is based on what or how Vanney answered a question to get to this point the over reaction to it is what is driving the dysfunction.

More reporters hunting down the answer I a question that really has no baring on the club performing or not.

Captain wears an armband and calls heads or tails during a flip of a coin to choose sides and who starts with the ball. Outside of that there is no need or any special treatment for players with the armband.

We have arguably the most deep and talented roster we've ever had and we're more worried about who's got the armband?

TOBOR !
02-05-2015, 09:14 AM
What would it say about this club were the captaincy to be stripped from the current holder any time a brighter, younger talent emerged ?

Caldwell's got it now, Bradley may get it next - let's see. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with the pair working together, which I'm sure they do anyway.

Fort York Redcoat
02-05-2015, 09:15 AM
I would love to know which players you had this conversation and when exactly you had this conversation.


/WEWA3xQ7pOA

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Enquirer_logo.jpg

Enquiring minds want to know!

notthesun
02-05-2015, 09:25 AM
I don't know who will end up being full time captain, but regardless this is Bradley's team.

BuSaPuNk
02-05-2015, 09:27 AM
Why are we even feeding the media's need to make a story out of nothing?

Yohan
02-05-2015, 09:32 AM
Why are we even feeding the media's need to make a story out of nothing?
because, off season :p (bad, jeremy, bad)

ironic, because I think i heard on the soccercentral podcast? that this is basically a non issue by JMo and Sharman IIRC

Red4ever
02-05-2015, 09:34 AM
If Bradley is made captain now, there's going to be a power struggle and locker room issues.

You can choose to believe me or not, but most of the guys see Caldwell as captain.

This. and what martin united said too.

It would be such a stupid move to make Bradley captain. It was already stupid move answering "will the captain's arm band change hands this year?" with anything other than a definitive "NO".

kwhisperer
02-05-2015, 09:39 AM
I'm happy with it to continue as is - it works fine with Caldwell captain on the field and Bradley also showing leadership. I like the way Bradley has been very vocal about the team and I'm sure he'll be captain after Caldwell is gone. As long as the two players are fine with it as is, and I suspect they are, there's no reason to change and no reason for factions.

BuSaPuNk
02-05-2015, 09:48 AM
because, off season :p (bad, jeremy, bad)

ironic, because I think i heard on the soccercentral podcast? that this is basically a non issue by JMo and Sharman IIRC

You heard correct. It is a non issue. The only people making it an issue is the reporters who having nothing to gain making a story out of nothing lol

ryan
02-05-2015, 09:49 AM
Caldwell is and should be the captain, no debate. Doesn't make Bradley any less of one of the team's leaders.

MagicPig
02-05-2015, 10:14 AM
This team doesn't have the image of a team that is full of respect for it's players, due to it's long history of shipping them out quickly, contract disputes, etc., let's avoid anymore black marks by needlessly stripping our captain of an armband because "someone new is here". As an aside, none of us have any idea who exactly the leaders are in the dressing room or who the players respect, these are grown men, not schoolchildren looking for a teacher to follow, all of them are capable of making their own decisions.

Jamaicanadian
02-05-2015, 11:26 AM
Anyone worthy of wearing the armband wouldn't give a shit about wearing the armband.

Jpexxx
02-05-2015, 12:14 PM
because, off season :p (bad, jeremy, bad)

ironic, because I think i heard on the soccercentral podcast? that this is basically a non issue by JMo and Sharman IIRC

Funny, because on the TSN FC podcast DeVos was making a massive deal of the whole thing.

PopePouri
02-05-2015, 12:19 PM
Funny, because on the TSN FC podcast DeVos was making a massive deal of the whole thing.


Yeah but it's DeVos.

JuliquE
02-05-2015, 12:41 PM
This. and what martin united said too.

It would be such a stupid move to make Bradley captain. It was already stupid move answering "will the captain's arm band change hands this year?" with anything other than a definitive "NO".
Huge fan of Vanney's, but I HAVE to agree, here.

Caldwell's done a fine job, and worn the armband with great pride; it's good that we have someone that looks poised to take on the mantel, but I don't see a reason for things to be hastened.

From a salary perspective, Caldwell is the most relatable, and whilst probably overpaid, at the minute, it's not to be forgotten that he helped us out in his first year, taking less; I'm sure that won't be lost on his peers, showing he does really put the team first.

Have to also agree that, whilst Bradley has a fire about him, sure to serve him well as a captain, there are times where he gets a little overemotional. I could remember Bradley snapping on Gilberto, when Gily's goal was called off for a foul, in Chicago, and Gily looked to save Bradley from being punished for any perceived descent, post-match.. and, whilst I felt in some ways vindicated by his claims in the interviews to follow, I knew that it wasn't very becoming of someone that has to lead people to keep trudging on (so, glad he wasn't, then, captain), and I was much more impressed with Caldwell's handling of the situation, when asked.

I think Bradley still has a bit of calming down to do, since rejoining the league and reacclimating.. so, a couple seasons (this being the last) as a hugely influential voice, if not as captain, will do him some good.

Kaz
02-05-2015, 12:44 PM
I have a solution... Make Bitchy the Captain

JuliquE
02-05-2015, 12:47 PM
Anyone worthy of wearing the armband wouldn't give a shit about wearing the armband.
I agree with the sentiment behind this, if maybe not so well worded.

I agree, as it applies to Bradley, that he shouldn't care whether or not he has the band, nor should he want to take it from a respected player at the club.

But, then, in regards to Caldwell's expressing he'd be disappointed to be stripped of his duties as captain, I feel like it'd be a bit strange for him not to feel a ways about that. Just as well, he's said and shown that he's very proud to play that role, which I think is also important (read: DOES give a shit).

Again, though, not to get into semantics, I think we're on the same wavelength, and I actually forgot to make a similar point in my post, above.

MagicPig
02-05-2015, 02:28 PM
I agree with the sentiment behind this, if maybe not so well worded.

I agree, as it applies to Bradley, that he shouldn't care whether or not he has the band, nor should he want to take it from a respected player at the club.

But, then, in regards to Caldwell's expressing he'd be disappointed to be stripped of his duties as captain, I feel like it'd be a bit strange for him not to feel a ways about that. Just as well, he's said and shown that he's very proud to play that role, which I think is also important (read: DOES give a shit).

Again, though, not to get into semantics, I think we're on the same wavelength, and I actually forgot to make a similar point in my post, above.

I disagree. Anyone who doesn't care to be a leader, just won't be a good one. You need to be proud and driven in order to successfully lead a group into competition.

ronzilla
02-05-2015, 09:52 PM
Just seen a tweet (with no link) that Bradley was named captain of club today. Is this true ?

djcuse
02-05-2015, 09:55 PM
Just seen a tweet (with no link) that Bradley was named captain of club today. Is this true ?

Unless Leiweke was lying straight to my face.. then Yes truth.

TFC07
02-05-2015, 10:00 PM
If true, then I guess I was right. It was obvious Bradley took over and the way off-season played out (both signing and PR wise), Bradley played a role while Caldwell was MIA.

I personally believe Caldwell isn't that respected like what some people here like to believe. New players aren't going to look towards a player like Caldwell who will eventually become a bench player by the end of the season as a captain. They look towards someone like Bradley who got respect and credibility (playing at high level) to lead this club..

JuliquE
02-06-2015, 01:06 AM
I disagree. Anyone who doesn't care to be a leader, just won't be a good one. You need to be proud and driven in order to successfully lead a group into competition.
lol That's exactly what I was saying (read: we agree).

I took Jamaicanadian's comment as being more directed at Bradley, in that, if he really is leader material, he won't "give a shit" if he's given the band this season or next (which I would agree with).

Having said that, it's assuming a lot about what he meant.. but, such was the sentiment I took from the comment, disagreeing, however, if it were directed at Caldwell (for reasons above).

JuliquE
02-06-2015, 01:12 AM
If true, then I guess I was right. It was obvious Bradley took over and the way off-season played out (both signing and PR wise), Bradley played a role while Caldwell was MIA.

I personally believe Caldwell isn't that respected like what some people here like to believe. New players aren't going to look towards a player like Caldwell who will eventually become a bench player by the end of the season as a captain. They look towards someone like Bradley who got respect and credibility (playing at high level) to lead this club..
Throughout this thread, you've been arguing the likelihood of Bradley being named captain, in countering others arguing that he shouldn't be.

Just thought I'd clear that up, finally; no one was saying you're wrong, but that it shouldn't go down like that.

Mark TFC
02-06-2015, 09:13 PM
I do think Bradley deserves it but maybe we should just let Caldwell ride it out. I strongly agree that it would cause unnecessary drama.

jloome
02-07-2015, 12:54 PM
because, off season :p (bad, jeremy, bad)

ironic, because I think i heard on the soccercentral podcast? that this is basically a non issue by JMo and Sharman IIRC

And yet... looks like there's a change coming. So it is an issue. Former assignment editor wins again! Bwah hah hah!

burlington Red
02-07-2015, 09:22 PM
This season,I'd prefer to let Bradley get his game sorted. He didn't live up to expectations last season, whether that was due to injury, world cup whatever, bar a couple of games he didn't do as well as expected. He will ultimately end up being captain at some stage but I'd prefer it to come of a stellar season than the one he just had

Jamaicanadian
02-09-2015, 09:54 AM
I disagree. Anyone who doesn't care to be a leader, just won't be a good one. You need to be proud and driven in order to successfully lead a group into competition.

Anyone who doesn't care to be a leader is not worthy of wearing the armband.

I'm not totally convinced by Captain America. Is he passionate or is he prone to emotional outburst? I'm conflicted. I understand Caldwell's sentiment regarding his disappointment if he's not selected. Both of these players dont need an arm band to lead IMHO

Vanney and TFC have bigger fish to fry other than this issue.

BuSaPuNk
02-10-2015, 09:35 AM
KJ on Twitter

Breaking: TSN has learned Michael Bradley is the new captain of Toronto FC http://t.co/HeRjZl3CzR

ensco
02-10-2015, 09:44 AM
^That is great news!

ManUtd4ever
02-10-2015, 09:46 AM
I think it would have done no harm to let Caldwell play out his final year as captain, but management obviously wants Bradley to take the reins now. I have no issue with the decision, but I hope it doesn't cause any unnecessary dissent in the locker room. I'm sure management spoke to Caldwell prior to making it official, and hopefully it won't affect his play on the pitch. He is a consummate professional, but he did not want to relinquish the captaincy.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 09:48 AM
Congratulations, General!

While Caldwell had great leadership skills I think the overall ability shown on the pitch made this the right decision.

ensco
02-10-2015, 09:54 AM
If you are going to go down this road, you have to be all in.

I don't know if a team's leader can make 100x what ten other guys make, but TFC are financially committed to making that model work, so may as well go all the way.

If Caldwell has a problem with that, he's replaceable.

kshep
02-10-2015, 09:56 AM
I hope to hell it was the players decision and not Vanney just making the call.

If the players decided that Bradley should be captain than there's no problem, if Vanney has just made this decision by himself I expect some drama in the locker room.

If Vanney made this call, Why take away the captaincy from Caldwell in what will surely be his last year with TFC and possibly his last year as a professional?

Maybe Caldwell won't be featuring as often this season, in favor of Hagglund?

Can't imagine the club would want to create a controversy, this close to the start of the season that could create locker room tension or division.

I think this is Vanney's first real misstep as manager.

KRO
02-10-2015, 09:58 AM
Disappointed with this decision. I'm worried about Bradley's relationship with MLS refs. He needs to keep a cooler head than he had last season.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 09:59 AM
I think this is Vanney's first real misstep as manager.

IF it wasn't unanimously decided by the players as well. Which we don't know. And won't know.

kshep
02-10-2015, 10:01 AM
Hope Bradley doesn't continue his embarrassing routine of complaining and whining about every call that goes against TFC to the on field ref.

Not convinced at all that Bradley is captain material, he certainly did not show it last year, he was more of an embarrassment than anything.

If you going to cry about every decision made against you, your not fit to be a leader of men.

burlington Red
02-10-2015, 10:05 AM
Caldwell will be fine with it, he's a seasoned pro.
Personally I wouldn't have given it to Bradley, but with this added responsibility, hopefully he will knock the whiny complaing to ref's on the head a bit, and maybe his level of play will improve after what was for the most part a disappointing return from him last season.
If we can get first game Seattle performances out of him on a regular basis, I will be fine with this call.
.

Milanista
02-10-2015, 10:06 AM
isnt caldwell in his last year? they won't re-sign him, plus the guy is pure garbage. Bradley can learn to go easy on the refs, caldwell cant learn how to defend

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 10:08 AM
Hope Bradley doesn't continue his embarrassing routine of complaining and whining about every call that goes against TFC to the on field ref.

Not convinced at all that Bradley is captain material, he certainly did not show it last year, he was more of an embarrassment than anything.

If you going to cry about every decision made against you, your not fit to be a leader of men.

Ours is not the only team he's been captain for. While he's animated there's always room for change.

kshep
02-10-2015, 10:09 AM
A good captain does not put his entire side under the bus in front of reporters by stating that the team doesn't have the quality to compete in the league.

Was it an honest assessment of the side? Probably, but you don't want those words coming from your on field leader in front of the media. Why? Because it's deflating to your teammates, who were probably already aware they couldn't cut the mustard.

Nobody likes to have their faces rubbed in it, especially from a guy making 100x what the rest of the squads making.

This is a bad decision if It wasn't made by the players, imo.

Red4ever
02-10-2015, 10:09 AM
I like Bradley's fire, but he hasn't shown he deserves to be a captain based on his demeanor.

Caldwell has.

Another stupid move.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 10:10 AM
isnt caldwell in his last year? they won't re-sign him, plus the guy is pure garbage. Bradley can learn to go easy on the refs, caldwell cant learn how to defend

Caldwell's game has slipped, no doubt but to say he's never been an asset would be wrong.

Red4ever
02-10-2015, 10:10 AM
isnt caldwell in his last year? they won't re-sign him, plus the guy is pure garbage. Bradley can learn to go easy on the refs, caldwell cant learn how to defend

Oh a vendetta against all things UK, surprise surprise.

Canary10
02-10-2015, 10:14 AM
isnt caldwell in his last year? they won't re-sign him, plus the guy is pure garbage. Bradley can learn to go easy on the refs, caldwell cant learn how to defend

Funny because our defensive record was horrible without him.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 10:15 AM
A good captain does not put his entire side under the bus in front of reporters by stating that the team doesn't have the quality to compete in the league.

Was it an honest assessment of the side? Probably, but you don't want those words coming from your on field leader in front of the media. Why? Because it's deflating to your teammates, who were probably already aware they couldn't cut the mustard.

Nobody likes to have their faces rubbed in it, especially from a guy making 100x what the rest of the squads making.

This is a bad decision if It wasn't made by the players, imo.

You raise some good points there, k.

One thing to think about though - Even IF they make announcements to the point that the entire team/group agreed upon the decision - Would we believe it? I will be looking critically on reactions to calls this year, hoping to see progress.

But now this will be always in the back of my mind though...


http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/angermanagement/assets/images/onesheet.jpg

kshep
02-10-2015, 10:16 AM
Ours is not the only team he's been captain for. While he's animated there's always room for change.

I guess animated can be used instead of petulant. But when your first instinct is to start yelling and getting in the refs face I'd say you don't have the right temperament to be an on field leader, dressing room leader certainly.

The captain on the field needs to be able to bring a calming presence at times, and Bradley doesn't seem to have that quality, at least he's not shown it yet in a TFC kit. Just go back and watch some matches from last year, and he always the first one to the ref and always complaining/whining. It was and might continue to be an ongoing embarrassment.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 10:17 AM
I guess animated can be used instead of petulant. But when your first instinct is to start yelling and getting in the refs face I'd say you don't have the right temperament to be an on field leader, dressing room leader certainly.

The captain on the field needs to be able to bring a calming presence at times, and Bradley doesn't seem to have that quality, at least he's not shown it yet in a TFC kit. Just go back and watch some matches from last year, and he always the first one to the ref and always complaining/whining. It was and might continue to be an ongoing embarrassment.

Yet I want the ACTUAL captain to be the first one, and only one talking to the ref so at least he has that down.

kshep
02-10-2015, 10:21 AM
Yet I want the ACTUAL captain to be the first one, and only one talking to the ref so at least he has that down.

Well played sir, well played!

Milanista
02-10-2015, 10:21 AM
Actually I like the UK, have been to England a few times and the people were great. My hate is for players our fans fall in love with who arent good footballers. All Caldwell does is pass the ball and miss terribly, always out of position and has to make rash tackles causing fouls near the box, is being paid serious $$ for what he does and he pumps the ball up the field playing that stupid style that wont work with our current team bc we need possesion. You really want Giovinco trying to win aerial battles?

Why give a guy an armband if he isnt here long term? Bradley seems to be fully committed to the club and he could learn to be more of a leader..i see nothing wrong with that and i bet the players voted him to be captain


Oh a vendetta against all things UK, surprise surprise.

KRO
02-10-2015, 10:24 AM
isnt caldwell in his last year? they won't re-sign him, plus the guy is pure garbage. Bradley can learn to go easy on the refs, caldwell cant learn how to defend
There have been some well written and well argued responses to the decision to make Bradley captain from both sides of the fence. This isn't one of them.

PopePouri
02-10-2015, 10:24 AM
LOL at Twitter right now.

http://troll.me/images/ancient-aliens-guy/narrative-thumb.jpg

ryan
02-10-2015, 10:28 AM
Caldwell was the right leader for this team. I hope Bradley has grown up a bit this offseason. His intensity is excellent, just needs to keep in check when speaking to the officials. He won't win us any calls if he has his continued temper tantrums with them.

Red4ever
02-10-2015, 10:29 AM
Actually I like the UK, have been to England a few times and the people were great. My hate is for players our fans fall in love with who arent good footballers. All Caldwell does is pass the ball and miss terribly, always out of position and has to make rash tackles causing fouls near the box, is being paid serious $$ for what he does and he pumps the ball up the field playing that stupid style that wont work with our current team bc we need possesion. You really want Giovinco trying to win aerial battles?

Why give a guy an armband if he isnt here long term? Bradley seems to be fully committed to the club and he could learn to be more of a leader..i see nothing wrong with that and i bet the players voted him to be captain

Sorry, did you watch the rest of our backline last year? How screwed we were when he was gone? Are you talking about hucking the ball up the field under Nelson's direction or under Vanneys? or is that a decision Caldwell makes on his own? or is it just you attributing a style to a player, neither which you care for?

I see an old dude, who has lost a step but is far and away our best option at his position who is a better leader than Bradley. Not by much, but he is. And if you are supporting stripping a captaincy rather than waiting a year for Caldwell to go and Bradley to calm down, then the end of your argument is fabricated to justify the means.

RealG-TFC
02-10-2015, 10:30 AM
Not necessarily thrilled with the decision.

The only two good reasons I see for doing this is that Bradley's here longterm and that it appears he's the only one on the team that can speak Italian and communicate directly with Giovinco.

BuSaPuNk
02-10-2015, 10:36 AM
Step back from the ledge.

Caldwell is a professional and this won't cause any issues. We have a locker room of leaders now. Who wears the armband is just a optical thing.

Phil
02-10-2015, 10:37 AM
Honestly this gets the biggest meh from me.

Its a controversy started by the media so they can run a story. How uneventful is this off season when this is the issue? Battling over the right leader is so much more refreshing than players being linked to training camps against club wishes and all the other stuff that typically goes on.

Its an armband and the requirement to go to the coin toss. I bet my dollars on Caldwell getting it back when Bradley is away in international duty. I get the feeling that Caldwell is more than capable of mentally handling this situation as a player / person. I also think he will help and support Bradley in the role.

burlington Red
02-10-2015, 10:47 AM
isnt caldwell in his last year? they won't re-sign him, plus the guy is pure garbage. Bradley can learn to go easy on the refs, caldwell cant learn how to defend

Sure he ain't no fancy ball playing centre half, but he organises his backline and is as brave as player as you can find.Don't like reading comments like that on a guy who puts his head in where most wouldn't put their feet.

Joe Kool
02-10-2015, 10:49 AM
Not in favour of this decision. I think Caldwell seems like more captain material to me with his demeanor on and off the field. I get that Bradley is the guy they are hanging everything on since he seems to have a hand in every decision the club makes from a management level these days and even taking a contract change to allow Altidore to be signed and yada yada yada. The captain, from my understanding, is the go between for the players and management off the field as well as his on the field duties to lead the team. Bradley seems too close to management and may not be as approachable for the players as Caldwell would be. I am not in the dressing room so maybe I am wrong. Just my impression. I also don't like Bradley losing his shit in the ref's face all the time. I like the passion but we also don't need every ref against us. I just don't agree with hanging every bit of responsibility on one player like they are seeming to do with Bradley. His ego must be pretty huge right now. Hope they are keeping him grounded somehow so it all doesn't blow up in our faces.

TFC Tifoso
02-10-2015, 10:50 AM
whether it was Vanney's or the players' decision I think a lot of it come down to the emergence of Hagglund......seeing as he may take some minutes this year - possibly at Caldwell's expense - the last thing you want as a coach is to be forced to have a player out there because he has the armband......

OgtheDim
02-10-2015, 10:56 AM
A good captain does not put his entire side under the bus in front of reporters by stating that the team doesn't have the quality to compete in the league.

.

He was not the captain at the time and was right to do so.

The deer caught in headlights nature of that team needed to change.

**********


Not happy with this decision. Will await the first question of Caldwell or Bradley by the media on this at tomorrow's practice. The answer is going to feed the twitterati no matter what.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 10:57 AM
Step back from the ledge.

Caldwell is a professional and this won't cause any issues. We have a locker room of leaders now. Who wears the armband is just a optical thing.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/129581/3666136-5719310562-13266.jpg

kshep
02-10-2015, 11:03 AM
Honestly this gets the biggest meh from me.

Its a controversy started by the media so they can run a story. How uneventful is this off season when this is the issue? Battling over the right leader is so much more refreshing than players being linked to training camps against club wishes and all the other stuff that typically goes on.

Its an armband and the requirement to go to the coin toss. I bet my dollars on Caldwell getting it back when Bradley is away in international duty. I get the feeling that Caldwell is more than capable of mentally handling this situation as a player / person. I also think he will help and support Bradley in the role.

Well reasoned thoughts.

And while your entirely right that this was an issue originally created by the media, our former captain was asked his opinion and unequivocally stated his hopes, desires and beliefs about what the captaincy of this football club meant to him.

So now it certainly has become an issue that merits more then a "meh" in my opionion.

Caldwell's statements about the captaincy show a man who has a massive amount of pride and love for our much beleaguered club, since he has been with the club he has been the consumant proffesional and provided the only real option of defensive coverage on a terrible club.

In what will certainly be his last year as a professional soccer player, why not allow him the honour of finishing his career captaining the football club he not long ago expressed his true passion for.

TFC somehow always finds a way to come across as a club that doesn't care about its players, imo.

Stripping a guy of his captaincy in his final professional year without merit, just seems shameful. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but I feel bad for Caldwell, especially since he clearly loves and cares about our club.

Honestly, how many former players do you believe would harbour the same feelings in regards to our club?

I'm sure Caldwell will act professional and support Bradley this year, I hope Micheal has the sense to have an open mind in any advice that Caldwell may think to offer.

kshep
02-10-2015, 11:08 AM
He was not the captain at the time and was right to do so.

The deer caught in headlights nature of that team needed to change.

**********


Not happy with this decision. Will await the first question of Caldwell by the media on this at tomorrow's practice.

I'm sorry no DP on this club has the right to tell his teammates they are not good enough, it is the responsibility of the DPs on this team to elevate the play of their teammates. If they do not have this ability, they should not be DPs as that is their main purpose.

PopePouri
02-10-2015, 11:09 AM
Well reasoned thoughts.

And while your entirely right that this was an issue originally created by the media, our former captain was asked his opinion and unequivocally stated his hopes, desires and believes about what the captaincy of this football club meant to him.

So now it certainly has become an issue that merits more then a "meh" in my opionion.

Caldwell's statements about the captaincy show a man who has a massive amount of pride and love for our much beleaguered club, since he has been with the club he has been the consumant proffesional and provided the only real option of defensive coverage on a terrible club.

In what will certainly be his last year as a professional soccer player, why not allow him the honour of finishing his career captaining the football club he not long ago expressed his true passion for.

TFC somehow always finds a way to come across as a club that doesn't care about its players, imo.

Stripping a guy of his captaincy in his final professional year without merit, just seems shameful. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but I feel bad for Caldwell, especially since he clearly loves and cares about our club.

Honestly, how many former players do you believe would harbour the same feelings in regards to our club?

I'm sure Caldwell will act professional and support Bradley this year, I hope Micheal has the sense to have an open mind in any advice that Caldwell may think to offer.

No one knows how the "stripping" happened. It could have been handed over voluntarily, it could have been voted on by other teammates, hell even a lockroom dustup. Unless we get some insight from media (I doubt that will happen) or Vanney, assumptions are pointless.

TheGoodson
02-10-2015, 11:10 AM
I personally think this topic is soooo over the top...

If you are a leader, you don't need the armband to be a leader.

OgtheDim
02-10-2015, 11:12 AM
This team wasn't good enough. A leader has the right to say that.

Attitudes needed to change.

They have.

Lets use another example:


In 2013, LAG had this guy who wanted to do lots of step overs and tricks with the ball cause he thought it was cool. Keane sat him down and told him to shape up.

How'd that guy do on the weekend for the USMNT?




Quiet leadership in sports works only so much.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 11:12 AM
the effect of captaincy differs from player to player. some take it more seriously, some don't. some can be a leader without the armband.

the effect on the locker room depends not just on Caldwell's reaction, but whether his teammates feel Caldwell is disrespected and from what I hear, Caldwell is well respected by his teammates.

and there's already questions about whether Bradley has too much say in TFC merely as a player

Phil
02-10-2015, 11:14 AM
Well reasoned thoughts.

And while your entirely right that this was an issue originally created by the media, our former captain was asked his opinion and unequivocally stated his hopes, desires and beliefs about what the captaincy of this football club meant to him.

So now it certainly has become an issue that merits more then a "meh" in my opionion.

Caldwell's statements about the captaincy show a man who has a massive amount of pride and love for our much beleaguered club, since he has been with the club he has been the consumant proffesional and provided the only real option of defensive coverage on a terrible club.

In what will certainly be his last year as a professional soccer player, why not allow him the honour of finishing his career captaining the football club he not long ago expressed his true passion for.

TFC somehow always finds a way to come across as a club that doesn't care about its players, imo.

Stripping a guy of his captaincy in his final professional year without merit, just seems shameful. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but I feel bad for Caldwell, especially since he clearly loves and cares about our club.

Honestly, how many former players do you believe would harbour the same feelings in regards to our club?

I'm sure Caldwell will act professional and support Bradley this year, I hope Micheal has the sense to have an open mind in any advice that Caldwell may think to offer.

If Caldwell answered that question with 'I am getting into the twilight years of my career and given my injury prone season I would like to give up the armband to focus on my game instead' then we would all be freaking out about how our captain isn't commited in some manner.

Of course the guy is going to want it, he is a professional athlete. I also know for a fact that is isn't some emo headcase that will split the dressing room and create an all out war about this issue. We have 0 insight on it being done without merit. For all we know TFC offered him some kind of ongoing position past his contract to be a coach or something. The fact is the details are not there and typically they don't come out unless leaked.

As far as former players they all seem to dislike the MLS for a plenty of reasons - not only our players but MLS in general. The nature of the trades, conflict with FIFA schedule, the travel, what lunch is served, is there a snack table?

TFC were a shitshow behind the scenes for years and maybe they still are. Who's are wears the C is something being put out there to fill words into papers. We are talking about the team with some passion, so that is positive, but the negative narative is really getting played out.

kshep
02-10-2015, 11:16 AM
No one knows how the "stripping" happened. It could have been handed over voluntarily, it could have been voted on by other teammates, hell even a lockroom dustup. Unless we get some insight from media (I doubt that will happen) or Vanney, assumptions are pointless.

Even if it not an issue with the players(which I hope it's not), I still feel sorry for him just based on the interview he gave. Because he clearly cares, not only about the captaincy but about the club. And I respect that, because I don't believe many of our former player feel the same.

Red4ever
02-10-2015, 11:17 AM
Well reasoned thoughts.

And while your entirely right that this was an issue originally created by the media, our former captain was asked his opinion and unequivocally stated his hopes, desires and beliefs about what the captaincy of this football club meant to him.

So now it certainly has become an issue that merits more then a "meh" in my opionion.

Caldwell's statements about the captaincy show a man who has a massive amount of pride and love for our much beleaguered club, since he has been with the club he has been the consumant proffesional and provided the only real option of defensive coverage on a terrible club.

In what will certainly be his last year as a professional soccer player, why not allow him the honour of finishing his career captaining the football club he not long ago expressed his true passion for.

TFC somehow always finds a way to come across as a club that doesn't care about its players, imo.

Stripping a guy of his captaincy in his final professional year without merit, just seems shameful. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but I feel bad for Caldwell, especially since he clearly loves and cares about our club.

Honestly, how many former players do you believe would harbour the same feelings in regards to our club?

I'm sure Caldwell will act professional and support Bradley this year, I hope Micheal has the sense to have an open mind in any advice that Caldwell may think to offer.

Perfect.

Red4ever
02-10-2015, 11:21 AM
Of course the guy is going to want it, he is a professional athlete. I also know for a fact that is isn't some emo headcase that will split the dressing room and create an all out war about this issue. We have 0 insight on it being done without merit. For all we know TFC offered him some kind of ongoing position past his contract to be a coach or something. The fact is the details are not there and typically they don't come out unless leaked.

I'll take the guy at what he says before I assume what he says means the opposite.

I mean come on, he was pretty clear.

TheGoodson
02-10-2015, 11:23 AM
I'm sorry no DP on this club has the right to tell his teammates they are not good enough, it is the responsibility of the DPs on this team to elevate the play of their teammates. If they do not have this ability, they should not be DPs as that is their main purpose.

Sometimes the truth hurts ... If I remember correctly he said that there needs to be more men on the team. When a team has the collapse that they had, it was clearly the truth. We are not privy to inner workings of the club, how the players train or handle themselves when the public/ media are not there. I would bet bradley was comparing the squad to those he has been on previously and that his comments were done to wake up certain individuals. Plus it was the offseason and we all knew that there was going to be significant changes,

Also, its funny not one player present or former (from last year save Issey who lasted a whole 7 games) have ever said anything to a reporter; even as an anonymus source. This use to happen all the time

Phil
02-10-2015, 11:25 AM
I'll take the guy at what he says before I assume what he says means the opposite.

I mean come on, he was pretty clear.

He was also baited into that answer without consultation from the club. They created the headline whith the first interview with management asking the questions and they got an honest answer in 'we are looking into a change' then slammed Caldwell with it in the next interview.

Its a media fueled event when you look at how it was done. Well done DeVos, his love for TFC comes shining through yet again.

kshep
02-10-2015, 11:28 AM
If Caldwell answered that question with 'I am getting into the twilight years of my career and given my injury prone season I would like to give up the armband to focus on my game instead' then we would all be freaking out about how our captain isn't commited in some manner.

Of course the guy is going to want it, he is a professional athlete. I also know for a fact that is isn't some emo headcase that will split the dressing room and create an all out war about this issue. We have 0 insight on it being done without merit. For all we know TFC offered him some kind of ongoing position past his contract to be a coach or something. The fact is the details are not there and typically they don't come out unless leaked.

As far as former players they all seem to dislike the MLS for a plenty of reasons - not only our players but MLS in general. The nature of the trades, conflict with FIFA schedule, the travel, what lunch is served, is there a snack table?

TFC were a shitshow behind the scenes for years and maybe they still are. Who's are wears the C is something being put out there to fill words into papers. We are talking about the team with some passion, so that is positive, but the negative narative is really getting played out.

I'm not going to respond to this because you and I clearly don't seem to be reading the situation from the same viewpoint and I don't believe I could express myself nor my view point to you in a manner and context in which you might understand on a message board.

I respect your opinions and discourse.

Phil
02-10-2015, 11:30 AM
I'm not going to respond to this because you and I clearly don't seem to be reading the situation from the same viewpoint and I don't believe I could express myself nor my view point to you in a manner and context in which you might understand on a message board.

I respect your opinions and discourse.

Hey its the internet! It is actually a good thing we are all discussing a positive problem regarding this club and its leadership. I respect your opinions and viewpoints as well!

kshep
02-10-2015, 11:34 AM
Sometimes the truth hurts ... If I remember correctly he said that there needs to be more men on the team. When a team has the collapse that they had, it was clearly the truth. We are not privy to inner workings of the club, how the players train or handle themselves when the public/ media are not there. I would bet bradley was comparing the squad to those he has been on previously and that his comments were done to wake up certain individuals. Plus it was the offseason and we all knew that there was going to be significant changes,

Also, its funny not one player present or former (from last year save Issey who lasted a whole 7 games) have ever said anything to a reporter; even as an anonymus source. This use to happen all the time

Really, Danny K called us the worst team in the world. My point is someone who is making millions playing in a league with players he knows are less than half his skill has no right to complain about the quality, especially when he was poor himself for the most part and knew what he was getting into when he signed up.

Canary10
02-10-2015, 11:38 AM
For anyone saying Caldwell is shit, I did some quick numbers. I'm supposed to be working, so I can't vouch for perfect accuracy....

Caldwell in the lineup
Goals Against Average/Game: 1.48
Points for Average/Game: 1.24

Caldwell not in lineup
Goals Against Average/Game: 1.77
Points for Average/Game: 1.15

Red4ever
02-10-2015, 11:38 AM
He was also baited into that answer without consultation from the club. They created the headline whith the first interview with management asking the questions and they got an honest answer in 'we are looking into a change' then slammed Caldwell with it in the next interview.

Its a media fueled event when you look at how it was done. Well done DeVos, his love for TFC comes shining through yet again.

I think media is going to shit just as much as you do, but to me this seemed on the level.

Anyway, yes. He is most certainly tough enough to handle it like a pro.

Phil
02-10-2015, 11:42 AM
For anyone saying Caldwell is shit, I did some quick numbers. I'm supposed to be working, so I can't vouch for perfect accuracy....

Caldwell in the lineup
Goals Against Average/Game: 1.48
Points for Average/Game: 1.24

Caldwell not in lineup
Goals Against Average/Game: 1.77
Points for Average/Game: 1.15



Morrow was also out for a large part of that Caldwell injury stretch last year so the numbers are also highlighting that fact. I take nothing away from him but that back line had no experienced depth at all.

TheGoodson
02-10-2015, 11:48 AM
Really, Danny K called us the worst team in the world. My point is someone who is making millions playing in a league with players he knows are less than half his skill has no right to complain about the quality, especially when he was poor himself for the most part and knew what he was getting into when he signed up.


Your missing the point of this... DP or not the players deserved to be call out. Salary is irrelevant to what he said, he complained about compete level and acting professionaly. It doesn't matter if a player makes 35k or 6 million. At the end of the day the players are paid to play soccer professionaly. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be there.

An example I work for a large multi national company. there is a level of professionalism that is required no matter what your position is. I have been in meetings where high level execs complain about lack of drive or professionalism of some entry level employees and it's understood either fall in line with what is expected or there is the door..

IMO that is what I took from Bradley calling out the players not they are shit, but compete level and acting like a professional.

burlington Red
02-10-2015, 11:49 AM
Sometimes the truth hurts ... If I remember correctly he said that there needs to be more men on the team. When a team has the collapse that they had, it was clearly the truth. We are not privy to inner workings of the club, how the players train or handle themselves when the public/ media are not there. I would bet bradley was comparing the squad to those he has been on previously and that his comments were done to wake up certain individuals. Plus it was the offseason and we all knew that there was going to be significant changes,

Also, its funny not one player present or former (from last year save Issey who lasted a whole 7 games) have ever said anything to a reporter; even as an anonymus source. This use to happen all the time


he surely was including himself in that critque, becasue his performances fell way short of what was expected of him last season

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 11:49 AM
One mans truth is apparently another mans complaint.

Here's to preseason!

kshep
02-10-2015, 11:53 AM
This team wasn't good enough. A leader has the right to say that.

Attitudes needed to change.

They have.

Lets use another example:


In 2013, LAG had this guy who wanted to do lots of step overs and tricks with the ball cause he thought it was cool. Keane sat him down and told him to shape up.

How'd that guy do on the weekend for the USMNT?




Quiet leadership in sports works only so much.

You just proved my point for me by trying to prove your own I think. Did Keane make his statement in front of the assembled media after having a poor season himself? Because if he didn't he showed true leadership.

Micheal Bradley on the other hand after accepting millions to come to a league he knew would be below his skill level called out his teammates abilities after having a incredibly pedestrian season for a player being paid millions of dollars.

In what way does this indicate to you the qualities of leadership? It may be an honest assessment and one you'd expect a manager to possibly make, but when your role is to make those around you better and provide performance at an elite level and have failed to do so, you don't get that right.

burlington Red
02-10-2015, 11:54 AM
Your missing the point of this... DP or not the players deserved to be call out. Salary is irrelevant to what he said, he complained about compete level and acting professionaly. It doesn't matter if a player makes 35k or 6 million. At the end of the day the players are paid to play soccer professionaly. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be there.

An example I work for a large multi national company. there is a level of professionalism that is required no matter what your position is. I have been in meetings where high level execs complain about lack of drive or professionalism of some entry level emnployees and it's understood either fall in line with what is expected or there is the door..

wasn't that one of the reasons we criticised Defoe so much as he continually called players out on the pitch for not meeting his standards.
I didn't agree with Defoe's actions when he done it,and I didn't agree with Bradley's actions either. If Bradley wants to act the leader and talk about his teammates, he should do so on the training ground.
Bradley when asked about some of his US men's teamates who were sneaking off to the press to complain about Klinsmann:
“…But you cross a line when you take those thoughts and you take your disappointments outside of the team, outside of the inner circle.”

ManUtd4ever
02-10-2015, 12:17 PM
he surely was including himself in that critque, becasue his performances fell way short of what was expected of him last season

Fair enough, but in fairness to Bradley, he was recovering from foot surgery and nerve damage. I think he will live up to his potential this season, and display the same dominant form that he did for us early last season prior to his injury.

TheGoodson
02-10-2015, 12:19 PM
wasn't that one of the reasons we criticised Defoe so much as he continually called players out on the pitch for not meeting his standards.
I didn't agree with Defoe's actions when he done it,and I didn't agree with Bradley's actions either. If Bradley wants to act the leader and talk about his teammates, he should do so on the training ground.

I guess we see things differently acting like a spoiled brat (Defoe) on the pitch is not the way to go about it. That interview we are discussing was done at the end of the season and Bradley asked his opinion of the team and what needs to be improved to make this club successful. Bradely did not call out a specific player or players it was more of a general statement.

Here are a few quotes from the article:

“We need more good players, to put it simply,” Bradley said. “Guys who can come in and, in a footballing sense, add something. And the other side of it is, we need more guys with personality, more leaders, more competitors, more men. And that’s not meant as any sort of disrespect to anyone who’s here. But when you have a season that went the way ours did, we’d be naive if we didn’t think all these things needed to be better, needed to improve.”

“The goal here is to not just scrape through a season and maybe make the playoffs and maybe not on the last day,” Bradley said. “We want to make the playoffs, but there’s much more to it. To do that, to get to where we want to be, we need more good players and we need more winners, leaders, competitors, guys who come in every day ready to spill everything they have into it.”

These are comments I expect from the leader of the team, not we tried hard and it will get better. Last year we expected rookies to fill in and help when injuries hit or the first team was struggling, how does a team with aspirations of being a playoff team and potential cup contender expect this to happen? TFC has lacked depth since day 1. I hope that his comments struck a cord with some of the players that are still here. Look at the last comment I bolded. It seems that there were players who didn't have the drive or compete level in them...

To me that is more of the issue then Bradley calling them out.

JuliquE
02-10-2015, 12:19 PM
Not necessarily thrilled with the decision.

The only two good reasons I see for doing this is that Bradley's here longterm and that it appears he's the only one on the team that can speak Italian and communicate directly with Giovinco.
This is exactly how I feel about all this; in trying to look on the bright side, I thought it would be nice to have someone of whom can bring Gio into things a bit more, where maybe Caldwell's accent might have been really difficult on someone just picking up the language (hopefully).



Step back from the ledge.

Caldwell is a professional and this won't cause any issues. We have a locker room of leaders now. Who wears the armband is just a optical thing.
I believe this to be true, as well.. but, you never know with this club, and I'd have preferred not to have planted this seed; in the heat of the moment, whatever's been subconsciously reinforced might take hold (already seen them at each other's throats, on one or two occasions). Here's hoping, then.

shwade
02-10-2015, 12:57 PM
Just seems like a slap in the face to a guy who's been a pretty good captain.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 12:58 PM
You just proved my point for me by trying to prove your own I think. Did Keane make his statement in front of the assembled media after having a poor season himself? Because if he didn't he showed true leadership.

Micheal Bradley on the other hand after accepting millions to come to a league he knew would be below his skill level called out his teammates abilities after having a incredibly pedestrian season for a player being paid millions of dollars.

In what way does this indicate to you the qualities of leadership? It may be an honest assessment and one you'd expect a manager to possibly make, but when your role is to make those around you better and provide performance at an elite level and have failed to do so, you don't get that right.

Of course he has the right to say what he wants. And you have the right to pillory him for falling short of expectation but him telling it like it is just one of 2 ways this and every team goes. Either fess up to needing to improvements or show confidence there is no problem.

After the unprecedented level of disappointment last year I doubt anyone wanted to hear how everything was okay and let's blame it on outside circumstances.

THAT would be Hell breaking more loose. Hell breaking looser? Hell breaking badder?

Canary10
02-10-2015, 01:02 PM
Of course he has the right to say what he wants. And you have the right to pillory him for falling short of expectation but him telling it like it is just one of 2 ways this and every team goes. Either fess up to needing to improvements or show confidence there is no problem.

After the unprecedented level of disappointment last year I doubt anyone wanted to hear how everything was okay and let's blame it on outside circumstances.

THAT would be Hell breaking more loose. Hell breaking looser? Hell breaking badder?

That's the title of the new season of All for One.

TFC07
02-10-2015, 01:14 PM
LOL @ people on here falling over media created issue. Good job guys!

As for Bradley being named captain, anyone following this team closely saw it coming. There's no way Caldwell can lead this team with quality of players coming in. Caldwell is injury prone and average CB at best who probably wouldn't even lead the backline let alone team this year. The only reason why Caldwell is still here because his contract was guaranteed. So it would have been hard to get rid of him through trade since he's getting paid close to DP money (cap wise).

TFC Tifoso
02-10-2015, 01:22 PM
wasn't that one of the reasons we criticised Defoe so much as he continually called players out on the pitch for not meeting his standards.
I didn't agree with Defoe's actions when he done it,and I didn't agree with Bradley's actions either. If Bradley wants to act the leader and talk about his teammates, he should do so on the training ground.
Bradley when asked about some of his US men's teamates who were sneaking off to the press to complain about Klinsmann:
“…But you cross a line when you take those thoughts and you take your disappointments outside of the team, outside of the inner circle.”

I'm a firm believer in the old adage "its not what you say, but how you say it".......Defoe's actions looked more of a spoiled child with all the on-field arm flapping and wishy-washy attitude about rehabbing the groin with the team, etc. On the other hand, to me, Bradley is making more of a "man up" commentary to his team....lord knows it had probably been said enough within the team - obviously with little infuence - so the next step is putting it out there for the rest......

Defoe's message seemed to be "you guys suck", where Bradley's came across to me more as "we're better than this"......

djcuse
02-10-2015, 01:32 PM
Haha. Welcome to 5 days ago TSN ;)
KJ on Twitter

Breaking: TSN has learned Michael Bradley is the new captain of Toronto FC http://t.co/HeRjZl3CzR

JayMolly
02-10-2015, 01:52 PM
Just seems like a slap in the face to a guy who's been a pretty good captain.

Not really surprised . . .

It appears it is the FO that makes these changes; not necessarily what the players want.

We have seen this movie before, when David Beckham replaced Landon Donovan as the captain for LA.

ensco
02-10-2015, 02:23 PM
I loved what Bradley did with the refs. He can afford to pay the fines, let him do his thing.

I would guess this was not a player vote, why would it be? They are not designing a team where 15 guys making $100K or less should be calling any shots.

Bradley is the GM already, may as well stop pfaffing about. This is 100% his team.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 02:35 PM
I loved what Bradley did with the refs. He can afford to pay the fines, let him do his thing.

I would guess this was not a player vote, why would it be? They are not designing a team where 15 guys making $100K or less should be calling any shots.

Bradley is the GM already, may as well stop pfaffing about. This is 100% his team.
remember those years when it felt like TFC wasn't getting a lot of calls because Carver kept basting the refs...

I wonder if Bradley will set a new MLS record for fines lol

ensco
02-10-2015, 02:43 PM
remember those years when it felt like TFC wasn't getting a lot of calls because Carver kept basting the refs...

I wonder if Bradley will set a new MLS record for fines lol


I think there is a lot of whining in this league.

The thing I really admired Bradley for was calling out the practice of putting Canadian refs on TFC games, in a world where the USSF controls reffing opportunities.

OgtheDim
02-10-2015, 03:00 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/485405940330405888/RI36eH-6_normal.jpeg Kurtis Larson @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) · 6h 6 hours ago (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/565143643682390016)

Meeting with Leiweke, Vanney, Bez and Bradley to talk TFC. Send me anything (reasonable) you'd like addressed.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/485405940330405888/RI36eH-6_normal.jpeg Kurtis Larson @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) · 9m 9 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/565235602011213825)

Quote from Michael Bradley: We had too many "little kids" last season. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)


***********

Well that should end any speculation as to who the captain is now.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 03:12 PM
nice start, calling some of his teammates 'little kids'. Bradley is going to be a very popular captain in the locker room

EastYork
02-10-2015, 03:14 PM
I am glad that it is now official that Bradley will be the captain for this season. In my mind he was the unofficial leader of this team and it is only right to give him the armband.

Red4ever
02-10-2015, 03:17 PM
Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/565241096943730688) Bradley and Caldwell have not spoken about the arm band exchange yet. Vanney informed Caldwell of the decision.
0 replies 2 retweets 0 favorites












Ooops.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 03:18 PM
I think there is a lot of whining in this league.

The thing I really admired Bradley for was calling out the practice of putting Canadian refs on TFC games, in a world where the USSF controls reffing opportunities.
yeah. because the refs really enjoyed being called incompetent and basically not professionals. no repercussions for that? we'll see

TFC Tifoso
02-10-2015, 03:18 PM
I'd like to believe that the "little kids" comment is directed more at the players who are no longer with the team.

Areathrasher
02-10-2015, 03:21 PM
I'd like to believe that the "little kids" comment is directed more at the players who are no longer with the team.

Bekker.

Kaka makes a fool of him now this? Ooof

OgtheDim
02-10-2015, 03:24 PM
Orr always came across as the biggest kid

pdubs
02-10-2015, 03:38 PM
nice start, calling some of his teammates 'little kids'. Bradley is going to be a very popular captain in the locker room

Why should he be worried about being popular? He started from the bottom in MLS making little $$$, probably similar to the players he is calling out. He has seen Europe, is a leader in the USMNT and one of the best American players period. These players are supposed to be professional athletes, and if in his mind are acting like little kids then I don't want them anywhere near or around this team. This is what leaders do, be honest.

Publicly saying something like this? I imagine it was said in private and Bradley is essentially using the media now to say that unprofessional attitudes and work ethics will not be tolerated while he is at the club. Screams leader to me. Granted I haven't read the context around the quote so will be looking for that.

I just hate coddling athletes. And if they get called out by the most experienced guy on the team, publicly or privatey I don't really have a problem. Bradley screams dedication to TFC - restructuring his contract to accommodate Altidore is the most latest example of this.

edit- as Larson put it, "this is big boy soccer"

ensco
02-10-2015, 03:39 PM
yeah. because the refs really enjoyed being called incompetent and basically not professionals. no repercussions for that? we'll see

The target there was the league office. Like I said, Bradley is the GM. Same as LeBron in Cleveland.

I bet it worked, and we don't see a Canadian ref this year.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 03:43 PM
Why should he be worried about being popular? He started from the bottom in MLS making little $$$, probably similar to the players he is calling out. He has seen Europe, is a leader in the USMNT and one of the best American players period. These players are supposed to be professional athletes, and if in his mind are acting like little kids then I don't want them anywhere near or around this team. This is what leaders do, be honest.

Publicly saying something like this? I imagine it was said in private and Bradley is essentially using the media now to say that unprofessional attitudes and work ethics will not be tolerated while he is at the club. Screams leader to me. Granted I haven't read the context around the quote so will be looking for that.

I just hate coddling athletes. And if they get called out by the most experienced guy on the team, publicly or privatey I don't really have a problem. Bradley screams dedication to TFC - restructuring his contract to accommodate Altidore is the most latest example of this.
it's not coddling of athletes. in any workplace where you get called out in public, why would you want to work in such places when you get embarassed? would you want to work with people who belittle and criticise you in public, no matter how much you deserve it?

praise in public and criticise in private. you get more out of your subordinates and co workers that way.

guys like Bradley may be respected for their abilities, but no one really wants to work with those kind of people. great leaders inspire people to work hard for them, as well as being competent at their job. so far, Bradley has shown poor man management skills. he's not going to be fostering much team chemistry being a hard ass all the time, especially when he's not even the manager. personally, I have hard time trusting these kind of 'leaders'

Yohan
02-10-2015, 03:43 PM
The target there was the league office. Like I said, Bradley is the GM. Same as LeBron in Cleveland.

I bet it worked, and we don't see a Canadian ref this year.
I'll bet you a beer that we will see a Canadian ref for a league game.

as a reminder


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Doh9gyEMRs

ManUtd4ever
02-10-2015, 03:43 PM
I'd like to believe that the "little kids" comment is directed more at the players who are no longer with the team.

Exactly.

Phil
02-10-2015, 03:45 PM
it's not coddling of athletes. in any workplace where you get called out in public, why would you want to work in such places when you get embarassed? would you want to work with people who belittle and criticise you in public, no matter how much you deserve it?

praise in public and criticise in private. you get more out of your subordinates and co workers that way.

guys like Bradley may be respected for their abilities, but no one really wants to work with those kind of people. great leaders inspire people to work hard for them, as well as being competent at their job. so far, Bradley has shown poor man management skills. he's not going to be fostering much team chemistry being a hard ass all the time, especially when he's not even the manager

Difference here is the ones being called the 'kids' are already gone. Goodness knows what was said during the transition or leading up to it.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 03:46 PM
Difference here is the ones being called the 'kids' are already gone. Goodness knows what was said during the transition or leading up to it.
makes no difference in mind.
his current teammates knows that Bradley will criticize any of them in public if Bradley feels like it

again, if Bradley wants to give shit to his teammates who aren't performing in private, go ahead. he's a leader in the locker room and sometimes people need a bit of ass kicking to get them going.

but in public? it's no good and you often get more negative results than what you intend

ensco
02-10-2015, 03:48 PM
Doesn't the target have to be Wiedeman? Don't all roads lead to him in TFC life? ;-)

Seriously, Bradley is the man.

I love the little kids comment. Training camp is the time for this, not August.

Phil
02-10-2015, 03:51 PM
Doesn't the target have to be Wiedeman? Don't all roads lead to him in TFC life? ;-)

Seriously, Bradley is the man.

I love the little kids comment. Training camp is the time for this, not August.

The intent from Larson seems to be one of setting the tone about what the teams expectations are and yes its the right time. Honestly the one liner nature of it does urk me though. Without context it looks cold for sure. Hell even with context it may still be a turd of a comment.

pdubs
02-10-2015, 03:51 PM
it's not coddling of athletes. in any workplace where you get called out in public, why would you want to work in such places when you get embarassed? would you want to work with people who belittle and criticise you in public, no matter how much you deserve it?

praise in public and criticise in private. you get more out of your subordinates and co workers that way.

guys like Bradley may be respected for their abilities, but no one really wants to work with those kind of people. great leaders inspire people to work hard for them, as well as being competent at their job. so far, Bradley has shown poor man management skills. he's not going to be fostering much team chemistry being a hard ass all the time, especially when he's not even the manager

Professional sports environment is not like other workplaces. So many different factors, perceptions, attitudes then a common workplace. Media, money, different organizational structures. It is not the same thing.

If Bradley can make us win then that is all that matters. Happy locker rooms are winning locker rooms, period. Bradley has standards that need to be met, I think his comment is largely directed at work ethic and possibly attitude. He is the 2nd highest paid player on the team and has influence on management decisions. We are all in on Bradley. This is big boy soccer.

edit- I agree with some sediment it was probably directed with players that are no longer with this team. Serves also as a reminder to current players. Everything Bradley has accomplished has made him a role model by definition.

ensco
02-10-2015, 03:55 PM
The intent from Larson seems to be one of setting the tone about what the teams expectations are and yes its the right time. Honestly the one liner nature of it does urk me though. Without context it looks cold for sure. Hell even with context it may still be a turd of a comment.

This is what happens when you put non entities in charge. Bradley is filling the void.

He closed the deals for Altidore and Giovinco, not Harry Potter., I'd wager any amount on that . He will be calling all the shots on the field, Vanney had better figure that out quickly.

This is Bradley's life, his team, and he has a direct line to Leiweke. Bradley is not waiting around wasting a couple of years while a bunch of children pretend to be in charge.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 03:55 PM
Professional sports environment is not like other workplaces. So many different factors, perceptions, attitudes then a common workplace. Media, money, different organizational structures. It is not the same thing.

If Bradley can make us win then that is all that matters. Happy locker rooms are winning locker rooms, period. Bradley has standards that need to be met, I think his comment is largely directed at work ethic and possibly attitude. He is the 2nd highest paid player on the team and has influence on management decisions. We are all in on Bradley. This is big boy soccer.

edit- I agree with some sediment it was probably directed with players that are no longer with this team. Serves also as a reminder to current players. Everything Bradley has accomplished has made him a role model by definition.
the basics of good leadership never change, no matter where the workplace

Yohan
02-10-2015, 03:56 PM
This is what happens when you put non entities in charge. Bradley is filling the void.

He brought in Altidore and Giovinco, not Harry Potter. He will be calling all the shots on the field.

This is Bradley's life, his team, and he has a dorect line to Leiweke. Bradley is not waiting around wasting a couple of years while a bunch of children pretend to be in charge.
I hardly categorize Vanney as a kid.

And Bradley brought in Giovinco? since when?

jloome
02-10-2015, 03:56 PM
makes no difference in mind.
his current teammates knows that Bradley will criticize any of them in public if Bradley feels like it

again, if Bradley wants to give shit to his teammates who aren't performing in private, go ahead. he's a leader in the locker room and sometimes people need a bit of ass kicking to get them going.

but in public? it's no good and you often get more negative results than what you intend

If I hadn't talked to so many Canadian pro players over the years who left me with nothing but the sense that they're seriously deluded as to their value and skill level, I'd agree with . But there's been a longstanding sense of entitlement by Canadian players that has bordered on childishness, going back to before Osieck. I heard plenty about the level of bitching in the TFC locker room when I was still writing full-time, and it was mostly Canadian players feeling hard done by.

I think it's about time.

It was also obvious there was friction last season between Bradley and Caldwell, from that incident in one of the final games, where Bradley went all the way back to the defensive line and basically stripped the ball from Caldwell's feet because he was taking so long to get it out and into play.

There was a sense of toughness and urgency lacking at this club and maybe calling people out before the season starts will count for something.

ensco
02-10-2015, 03:58 PM
I hardly categorize Vanney as a kid.

And Bradley brought in Giovinco? since when?

Vanney has never coached a game anywhere. He is as raw as raw gets. It amazes me how few people see that, or care if they do.

Giovinco: I'd bet serious money on it. Somebody had to close that deal. You think it was Harry Potter? It's a free country.

Vanney did bring in Cheyrou, I believe.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 04:01 PM
If I hadn't talked to so many Canadian pro players over the years who left me with nothing but the sense that they're seriously deluded as to their value and skill level, I'd agree with . But there's been a longstanding sense of entitlement by Canadian players that has bordered on childishness, going back to before Osieck. I heard plenty about the level of bitching in the TFC locker room when I was still writing full-time, and it was mostly Canadian players feeling hard done by.

I think it's about time.

It was also obvious there was friction last season between Bradley and Caldwell, from that incident in one of the final games, where Bradley went all the way back to the defensive line and basically stripped the ball from Caldwell's feet because he was taking so long to get it out and into play.

There was a sense of toughness and urgency lacking at this club and maybe calling people out before the season starts will count for something.
or team falls apart due to lack of team chemistry at first sign of trouble. we'll see

jloome
02-10-2015, 04:03 PM
the basics of good leadership never change, no matter where the workplace

The basics of good leadership never change? Nonsense. There are situations and workplaces where being unpopular and making hard leadership decisions is necessary. Doing things privately only addresses how the information is received, not its intrinsic value.

Yohan
02-10-2015, 04:06 PM
The basics of good leadership never change? Nonsense. There are situations and workplaces where being unpopular and making hard leadership decisions is necessary. Doing things privately only addresses how the information is received, not its intrinsic value.
I don't disagree, and never did I say it's wrong to be a hard ass if necessary.

pdubs
02-10-2015, 04:07 PM
the basics of good leadership never change, no matter where the workplace

This organization has been utter trash for almost a decade. Need a different way of doing things with this one.

Winning will take care of all this. And if they don't make the playoffs and make a dent? Par for the course with regards to this organization.

mowe
02-10-2015, 04:10 PM
Giovinco: I'd bet serious money on it. Somebody had to close that deal. You think it was Harry Potter? It's a free country.

Read this article: http://www.football-italia.net/62349/giovinco-allegri-ended-juve-talks


“Within 48 hours of the idea being proposed to me, Toronto manager Tim Bezbatchenko flew to Turin to meet me,” he revealed. “They were stung by Jermain Defoe’s departure and wanted to make sure I was available. We liked each other straight away.
“Toronto won me over by giving me the Number 10 jersey: the one I never got to wear at Juventus. They also gifted me an iPad with all the club mission statements on it. They made a good impression.

“We had lunch for an hour and never discussed money. I made my decision before knowing the figures. I decided straight away and began planning the future with my family.

Bez was clearly the main guy who met with Giovinco and won him over. It's OK to give him a little credit. Although Leiweke getting the board's approval was also key of course.

And the source is Giovinco himself, so you can't claim spin this time.

ag futbol
02-10-2015, 04:13 PM
The ref call out was fair and it worked. How many other guys in this league can say that and have Garber sheepishly admit the point is well taken (prior to the inevitable fine of course).

TFC has been too soft and things have been too chummy for too long. It's about time someone on the players side cracked the whip.

Fort York Redcoat
02-10-2015, 04:17 PM
Vanney has never coached a game anywhere. He is as raw as raw gets. It amazes me how few people see that, or care if they do.

Giovinco: I'd bet serious money on it. Somebody had to close that deal. You think it was Harry Potter? It's a free country.

Vanney did bring in Cheyrou, I believe.

What is going on with this?

No games or drafts for a couple days and everybody wants to gamble?

We may be talking about another type of GA on this board before long...:p

Canary10
02-10-2015, 04:19 PM
What is going on with this?

No games or drafts for a couple days and everybody wants to gamble?

We may be talking about another type of GA on this board before long...:p

Bet you're right!

Roca
02-10-2015, 05:10 PM
Caldwell has been captain for every club he's been a part of

I realize the discussion has moved on from this, but the statement above is not true. Don't know about his other clubs, but Caldwell spent a year at Wigan Athletic and was definitely not captain there, although his brother Gary was for a time.

He was not a great player during his season at Wigan, but he's been a great leader for us. Football's cruel and there's no constant but constant change. I wish him all the best.

cubr
02-10-2015, 07:23 PM
I realize the discussion has moved on from this, but the statement above is not true. Don't know about his other clubs, but Caldwell spent a year at Wigan Athletic and was definitely not captain there, although his brother Gary was for a time.

He was not a great player during his season at Wigan, but he's been a great leader for us. Football's cruel and there's no constant but constant change. I wish him all the best.

Was just going on what he said, although he did say since he was 15. But yeah, it's done now, Bradley officially named captain.

Auzzy
02-10-2015, 07:50 PM
Just to note, we have Damien Perquis now as a centre back, who is 30 (compared with Caldwell at 34). Plus we have a couple of exciting prospects.

Caldwell isn't shit. He's been a decent centreback by MLS standards. Which is much, much better than what TFC have usually had in defense. However, I think TFC is trying to be better than decent. Plus Caldwell seems to lack a bit of introspection about his play, the way he always waves his arms about, inviting PKs.

If Perquis does well this season, I don't think it's a given that Caldwell starts or even plays every game. I bet they will try to pair an older/experienced centreback, with a younger more athletic centreback -- and the older one could be Perquis or Caldwell. I think Caldwell will need to fight for his spot. It will depend on how well all the centrebacks do, and on injuries.

On that note, I think it's problematic if the captain is not a sure starter on a team. Bradley on the other hand, is a sure starter as long as he isn't injured. He's a leader, and also a linchpin among the key players: Giovinco (due to his position & fluency in Italian) and Altidore due to their background together.

That's why I think Bradley as captain makes sense, this season. But I don't like how it came out. Most of all, I wish Leiweke would STFU. It's one thing for journalists sniffing for a story to put people on the spot. It's another thing for Leiweke to leak the captain switch to some supporters, then it was all over Twitter.

The team hasn't even trained with any of the DPs yet this season. This week they are all coming together in Toronto. I bet Vanney was planning to address the issue this week, but then Leiweke opens his big mouth. Caldwell probably found out via Twitter, so the issue was forced.

ag futbol
02-10-2015, 08:09 PM
^ I generally agree here. Okay the guy has been captain for quite a long time, that doesn't mean he should be the captain for all teams in all circumstances.

But i doubt it's anything but Caldwell / perquis as first choice pairing unless someone legitimately plays there was into the starters role.

OgtheDim
02-11-2015, 01:03 PM
John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 3m3 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/565569659928584193) Caldwell disappointed about losing captaincy and not happy with how it was handled. But also stressed it's done now. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 1m1 minute ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/565570340106280960)
Caldwell stressed it's done now. Not an issue. Eager to give his support to Bradley and get on with things. #tfc (https://twitter.com/hashtag/tfc?src=hash)

Richard
02-11-2015, 01:12 PM
Did they really do it over the phone?

Not what I wanted to see from Vanney. Caldwell will take it like a pro but that's just a pathetic way of handling it.

Initial B
02-11-2015, 01:13 PM
Caldwell is classy. Any chance the first game at BMO he could be honored somehow by the RPB? A crisp banner would probably be nice.

FRANKIE65
02-11-2015, 01:18 PM
John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 3m3 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/565569659928584193) Caldwell disappointed about losing captaincy and not happy with how it was handled. But also stressed it's done now. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 1m1 minute ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/565570340106280960)
Caldwell stressed it's done now. Not an issue. Eager to give his support to Bradley and get on with things. #tfc (https://twitter.com/hashtag/tfc?src=hash)



Did they really do it over the phone?

Not what I wanted to see from Vanney. Caldwell will take it like a pro but that's just a pathetic way of handling it.

Yeah, this one isn't sitting too well with many of us. Not that I don't support Bradley 100%, just, everything I've seen from Caldwell shows me he's a class act. Over the phone...yikes

Yohan
02-11-2015, 08:00 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-tfc-mls-major-league-soccer-michael-bradley-sebastian-giovinco-jozy-altidore/


Caldwell admitted he was disappointed, but also stressed the matter is behind him, and he plans to give his full support to Bradley in his new role as captain.“I’m a little bit upset how it’s been handled. That being said, it’s done now. I love this club and I love this city. I feel like I gave my all as captain, and I’ll continue to do that. At the end of the day, people don’t follow (who ever wears the captain’s) armband—they follow leaders,” Caldwell said.

“There’s many different ways to lead—by example, by actions, by bringing people together. Many different ways. We’re looking to create an atmosphere where people step up and they do it together. Good luck to Michael, I’ll be there to support him. The matter is finished now, in my opinion.

“I probably deserved a little bit more respect in the way it was done. We all knew it was coming and it should’ve been dealt with quicker and in a more precise manner. It dragged on. … But it’s over and done with now. By no means is it playing on my mind. It’s finished.”
classy man

Abou Sky
02-11-2015, 08:10 PM
Yet I want the ACTUAL captain to be the first one, and only one talking to the ref so at least he has that down.

+ one million!

gate7
02-11-2015, 09:31 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-tfc-mls-major-league-soccer-michael-bradley-sebastian-giovinco-jozy-altidore/


classy man

Caldwell = 100% Gentleman who plays for the badge.

charlieocc
02-11-2015, 10:07 PM
Definitely think Bradley deserves the armband, but there's no doubt Caldwell's been a great captain for us. I imagine he'll still definitely be a captain-y figure in the dressing room

jloome
02-11-2015, 10:13 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-tfc-mls-major-league-soccer-michael-bradley-sebastian-giovinco-jozy-altidore/


classy man

People are assuming TFC phoned him. Caldwell only told TSN he 'learned over the phone'. Vanney might have wanted to wait until the first practice with the whole team together, but it may be that Caldwell called him on the weekend and said 'look, what's going on? Because it's everywhere that Michael is going to be captain, and I'd like to know before I have to face all my teammates tomorrow."

Fits the breakdown as more likely to me than just a perfunctory phone call from Vanney. He's an ex-player, and I doubt it would have gone down like that.

Richard
02-11-2015, 10:20 PM
People are assuming TFC phoned him. Caldwell only told TSN he 'learned over the phone'. Vanney might have wanted to wait until the first practice with the whole team together, but it may be that Caldwell called him on the weekend and said 'look, what's going on? Because it's everywhere that Michael is going to be captain, and I'd like to know before I have to face all my teammates tomorrow."

Fits the breakdown as more likely to me than just a perfunctory phone call from Vanney. He's an ex-player, and I doubt it would have gone down like that.

Good points. :)

ManUtd4ever
02-11-2015, 10:44 PM
People are assuming TFC phoned him. Caldwell only told TSN he 'learned over the phone'. Vanney might have wanted to wait until the first practice with the whole team together, but it may be that Caldwell called him on the weekend and said 'look, what's going on? Because it's everywhere that Michael is going to be captain, and I'd like to know before I have to face all my teammates tomorrow."

Fits the breakdown as more likely to me than just a perfunctory phone call from Vanney. He's an ex-player, and I doubt it would have gone down like that.

Agreed. Leiweke's blunder most likely caused it to go down the way it did.

Red4ever
02-11-2015, 10:55 PM
They still dragged it out.

MightyDM
02-12-2015, 07:31 AM
Vanney has never coached a game anywhere. He is as raw as raw gets. It amazes me how few people see that, or care if they do.

Giovinco: I'd bet serious money on it. Somebody had to close that deal. You think it was Harry Potter? It's a free country.

Vanney did bring in Cheyrou, I believe.

this.

Jamaicanadian
02-12-2015, 08:16 AM
Caldwell admitted he was disappointed, but also stressed the matter is behind him, and he plans to give his full support to Bradley in his new role as captain.“I’m a little bit upset how it’s been handled. That being said, it’s done now. I love this club and I love this city. I feel like I gave my all as captain, and I’ll continue to do that. At the end of the day, people don’t follow (who ever wears the captain’s) armband—they follow leaders,” Caldwell said.

“There’s many different ways to lead—by example, by actions, by bringing people together. Many different ways. We’re looking to create an atmosphere where people step up and they do it together. Good luck to Michael, I’ll be there to support him. The matter is finished now, in my opinion.

“I probably deserved a little bit more respect in the way it was done. We all knew it was coming and it should’ve been dealt with quicker and in a more precise manner. It dragged on. … But it’s over and done with now. By no means is it playing on my mind. It’s finished.”

Exactly.

Phil
02-12-2015, 08:21 AM
I do wish Caldwell was treated with more respect in this whole situation.

We should also be more careful about what gets let out from conversations ;|

ensco
02-12-2015, 08:39 AM
Maybe Caldwell should try to look at this from someone else's POV for a second.

He is near the end of his career. The new guys want to pick their guy. It happens. You suck it up, buttercup.

What isn't smart is to bitch about how they handled it, even if he is right.

Going public about being told on the phone just makes the decision look right.

OgtheDim
02-12-2015, 09:36 AM
He was about as professional as you can be in the interview yesterday. As was Bradley. And to TFC's credit, they not only put him out there to talk, they have put up the video.

A phone discussion done this late is a bad way to do things. I still maintain we should have let him stay as captain.

I appreciate the nuance jloome brought forward. To add another bit of speculation, I would not put it past TL and Bradley's agent to have put in a clause in his original contract about a bonus if he became captain. For all we know, the "restructuring" of his contract might have included money flowing through that bonus instead of his guaranteed. This league is too darn murky in that regard.

Milanista
02-12-2015, 09:37 AM
Only in Toronto will ppl keep talking about and making a huge deal about who wears the arm band when we just had one of the biggest transfer seasons in MLS history

Phil
02-12-2015, 09:42 AM
Bottom line is Vanney is looking for a new definition on this team and part of that is naming a new captain.

Like I say it could have been handled better. I will chalk it up to learning (yet again). I stuck my neck out in hopes they did it right and have to be fair in the acknowlegment that they did should have done it better.

Now if things go poorly there will be no end to circling back on this issue.

Canary10
02-12-2015, 09:42 AM
You don't generally un-captain the captain unless he's being put out. Whoever said Caldwell will be fighting for his minutes this year I think is the one who hit the nail on the head.

ensco
02-12-2015, 09:45 AM
Bottom line is Vanney is looking for a new definition on this team and part of that is naming a new captain.

Like I say it could have been handled better. I will chalk it up to learning (yet again). I stuck my neck out in hopes they did it right and have to be fair in the acknowlegment that they did should have done it better.

Now if things go poorly there will be no end to circling back on this issue.

I wouldn't assume Vanney made this decision.

burlington Red
02-12-2015, 09:46 AM
Not sure how Caldwell could be any more classy about this. He give his support to Bradley and vowed to continue give 100%.
Of course he isn't happy about losing the role, nobody would, I think Tim L telling people publicly before TFC had officially announced it, didn't sit well with him, and rightly so.
Just another example of why both Tim's should shut up re issues like this and leave stuff like that to the manager.

Milanista
02-12-2015, 09:47 AM
Very true, maybe they know he is on a tight leash and won't hesitate to put someone else in his position if he struggles. We don't know what management is thinking, plus you don't need an armband to "lead" a team or be a voice in the room. I think the whole change of captains is part of the teams "rebrand" and TFC want their long term players to be the face of the team, starting with bradley.


You don't generally un-captain the captain unless he's being put out. Whoever said Caldwell will be fighting for his minutes this year I think is the one who hit the nail on the head.

Phil
02-12-2015, 09:48 AM
I wouldn't assume Vanney made this decision.

Really it doesn't matter. Lets just say that the new crew running the show wanted to signal a change in the Captain role.

FRANKIE65
02-12-2015, 09:52 AM
You don't generally un-captain the captain unless he's being put out. Whoever said Caldwell will be fighting for his minutes this year I think is the one who hit the nail on the head.

I don't think that had anything to do with it, but, I've been known to be wrong.
Like others have said, Bradley is the guy now.
Caldwell handled it well, had he NOT at least expressed some disappointment...it would have shown that he wasn't captain material.

Not sure how many of you saw the EPL games on TSN (I think) that he did some pre-game, half time, post game commentary on. I'd say, from what I saw, he has a future on TV. Better than some that are doing it right now.

Yohan
02-12-2015, 09:59 AM
I don't think that had anything to do with it, but, I've been known to be wrong.
Like others have said, Bradley is the guy now.
Caldwell handled it well, had he NOT at least expressed some disappointment...it would have shown that he wasn't captain material.

lol. a no win situation for Caldwell it seems

burlington Red
02-12-2015, 10:04 AM
You don't generally un-captain the captain unless he's being put out. Whoever said Caldwell will be fighting for his minutes this year I think is the one who hit the nail on the head.

funny you say that, not sure if we have any Baggies fans on here, but they just replaced their captain's position, Chris Brunt will hand over captain's armband to new signing Darren Fletcher. Brunt will still continue to be a main player for WBA as they battle to stay out of relegation battle.I'd say Caldwell will still start this season anyway as a starter.

Canary10
02-12-2015, 10:08 AM
funny you say that, not sure if we have any Baggies fans on here, but they just replaced their captain Chris Brunt with new signing Darren Fletcher. Brunt will continue to be a main player for WBA as they battle to stay out of relegation battle.I'd say Caldwell will still start this season anyway as a starter.

Yeah, maybe. I noticed Brunt was playing centre half and Lescott right back yesterday. Interesting, I don't think of Brunt in that position at all. But they got the cleanie.

My gut though is saying that Caldwell will see reduced minutes this year. I hope not, as I think he's a character guy.

gate7
02-12-2015, 10:26 AM
MLSE have no class anyway. Old news.
One day in the distant furure perhaps Michael Bradley's tenure TFC will be over. I wont be surprised at how poorly they handle that as well.

gate7
02-12-2015, 10:37 AM
anyone have the link in which Caldwell stated he found out via phone?

ManUtd4ever
02-12-2015, 10:44 AM
Caldwell is not in the long term plans of the organization. It would have been a nice gesture to let him play out his final year as the incumbent captain, but the situation is being entirely overblown. Leiweke leaked the information ahead of schedule and the situation played out differently than it should have in a perfect scenario. It's not the end of the world, certainly not by this organization's standards, LOL.

It's worth noting that Caldwell was adamant that he would not relinquish the captaincy, so no matter how the situation was handled, he would have ultimately been disappointed with the end result. I'll take his word that he's moved past it and will be the consummate professional that he's been throughout his career.

Richard
02-12-2015, 11:07 AM
Caldwell is not in the long term plans of the organization. It would have been a nice gesture to let him play out his final year as the incumbent captain, but the situation is being entirely overblown. Leiweke leaked the information ahead of schedule and the situation played out differently than it should have in a perfect scenario. It's not the end of the world, certainly not by this organization's standards, LOL.

It's worth noting that Caldwell was adamant that he would not relinquish the captaincy, so no matter how the situation was handled, he would have ultimately been disappointed with the end result. I'll take his word that he's moved past it and will be the consummate professional that he's been throughout his career.

Why did he leak it? Its so stupid of him, I don't get it at all.

I have feeling the players probably look up to Caldwell more as he is the workman of the team, he isn't all glitz and glamour which MLS players understand. They should have had Bradley as vice captain and let Caldwell retire as the captain.

I don't have any problems with Bradley aside from maybe the constant bitching about refs, he had his say, now its time to suck it up buttercup and play.

Yohan
02-12-2015, 01:24 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/tfc-toronto-fc-captain-mls-major-league-soccer-steven-caldwell-michael-bradley/

Yohan
02-23-2015, 10:09 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/bradley-puts-his-stamp-on-revamped-toronto-fc-squad/article23168527/

I'm not a fan of Cathal Kelly but this is an interesting article. Confirms 2 things.
Nelsen and Bez didn't get along. Hence why the roster was so messed up.
Bradley has direct input on signings. The 2nd part kinda scares me.

MightyDM
02-23-2015, 10:36 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/bradley-puts-his-stamp-on-revamped-toronto-fc-squad/article23168527/

I'm not a fan of Cathal Kelly but this is an interesting article. Confirms 2 things.
Nelsen and Bez didn't get along. Hence why the roster was so messed up.
Bradley has direct input on signings. The 2nd part kinda scares me.

well well well. Very interesting. Very. If he is right, it explains Bez getting rid of Nelsen at the very first opportunity. Bradley's involvement in recruiting is wrong though. Do you think Sir Alex sent Roy Keane to scout potential signings????

OgtheDim
02-23-2015, 11:26 PM
There is no confirmation about Nelsen and Bez there at all.

This is Cathal Kelly. Be very careful about how you read what he writes, as he interprets a lot of stuff and puts it in as thought bubbles for people without actually quoting. Its his schtick.

There's one line in that article about Bez and Nelsen and its not a quotation. If Bradley actually says that, Kelly would quote him. As there is no quote, I wouldn't trust it.

Kelly is nursing some mental stuff over how he got hoodwinked by TL last year at this time. He's been looking for an office politics excuse since Nelsen got fired.

Now, the thought that Bradley sits for hours and watches film of potential players in December and January is scary in a "never seen a player act that intense about his teammates" sort of way.


I also think Kelly is setting up a season long narrative for June that can be used either if TFC is winning or failing. Again, its something he does.

kshep
02-23-2015, 11:47 PM
Got to say I don't think I really like a player getting an opinion on who should be signed by the club for two reasons.

1. Makes the gm seem ineffective or unsure about talent, and to me seems as proof that the right man is not in the correct job. I've seen quite a few people express opinions on Bez before in regards to not being qualified to properly make personal decisions, to me allowing Bradley to make a call on personal corroborate's this.

2. Allows for the potential of a poor gm to deflect blame onto said player if things go sideways, potentially giving the gm a chance at self preservation.

If Bez does not have the ability to correctly identify talented players, he should not be in the gm position, assistant gm maybe.

Initial B
02-24-2015, 09:00 AM
^ But it could also be that Bradley is setting himself up for life in soccer after his playing days are done. Like father, like son?

Fort York Redcoat
02-24-2015, 09:09 AM
There is no confirmation about Nelsen and Bez there at all.

This is Cathal Kelly. Be very careful about how you read what he writes, as he interprets a lot of stuff and puts it in as thought bubbles for people without actually quoting. Its his schtick.

There's one line in that article about Bez and Nelsen and its not a quotation. If Bradley actually says that, Kelly would quote him. As there is no quote, I wouldn't trust it.

Kelly is nursing some mental stuff over how he got hoodwinked by TL last year at this time. He's been looking for an office politics excuse since Nelsen got fired.

Now, the thought that Bradley sits for hours and watches film of potential players in December and January is scary in a "never seen a player act that intense about his teammates" sort of way.


I also think Kelly is setting up a season long narrative for June that can be used either if TFC is winning or failing. Again, its something he does.

I'm with Og (that is so fun to say btw)

While I believe our captain has a say I don't think he's got an inappropriate amount of clout. Definitely more than usual but if Cathal is gonna big it up then I'm going to accept its not that big a deal.