What tactical approach do you favor this season?

[jloome]

Opinions!

I thought it would be cool to narrow the field and use a target man with two running strikers -- a narrow 4-3-3, where the wingbacks are the only real wide play. Doyle pointed out correctly today that Altidore is best on the run, and I think the same is true of Gilberto. So why not play to that strength by using a traditional target man system, where he holds the ball up at the top of the box for the oncoming players? It would solve the number 10 issue, to a degree, and our lack of strength on the wings. The three central midfielders would play flat, and shift to help out on the wing defensively, forcing the other team to play the switch, which in turn allows us to counter.


---Alitdore--Dike/Hamilton--Gilberto
----Jackson--------Bradley---
-----------Delgado--------------
Morrow--Caldwell--Hagglund--Bloom
--------------Bendik-------------

I know it's not a pretty style but it would play to our strengths.

[Kaz]

I'm sure Bez's computer will tell them what to play... don't know if it will be right.. but I'm sure a computer will make the decision.

Didn't we drop Dike and keep Moore?

[Areathrasher]

It's going to be some variation on a 4-3-3. How it will be set up (narrow or attacking), I've no idea until I see the roster in a months time.

[jloome]

I'm sure Bez's computer will tell them what to play... don't know if it will be right.. but I'm sure a computer will make the decision.

Didn't we drop Dike and keep Moore?

Nope, Dike just signed a new deal I believe.

[Ajax TFC]

I think it will be a high pressure 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-1-2. Assuming there's more moves to be made, and we bring in a DP AM like Ruiz:

-Gilberto----------Altidore-----------Findley-
------------Giovinco---------------------------
------------------------------Bradley----------
---------------------Delgado------------------
Morrow------Caldwell--Hagglund------Bloom
------------------Bendik/Bono----------------
Or
---------Gilberto-------Altidore--------------
-----------------Giovinco---------------------
----------Osorio---------Bradley-------------
-----------------Delgado----------------------
Morrow----Caldwell-----Hagglund----Bloom

I think that considering the arsenal of strikers on the roster and lack of quality wingers, it makes the most sense to play without true wingers. The main areas that need addressing if we play like this are defensive and attacking mid, and center back. Our depth looks like this:
GK: Bendik, Bono, Konopka
RB: Bloom, Creavalle
CB: Caldwell, Hagglund
LB: Morrow, Morgan
DM: Delgado, Creavalle
CM: Bradley, Osorio, Warner, Bekker, Chapman, Lovitz (in a Diamond), Jackson
AM: Giovinco, Osorio
CF: Altidore, Gilberto, Dike, Moore
WF: Findley, Gilberto, Oduro, Giovinco

EDIT:

rewrite it for the atomic ant!
Fixed :D

[pdubs]

rewrite it for the atomic ant!

[jloome]

rewrite it for the atomic ant!

Yeah, pretty much changes everything, lol.

-----------Alitidore---Gilberto---------
---------------Giovinco---------------
---------Osorio------Bradley--------
---------------Delgado--------------
Morrow--Caldwell--Hagglund--Bloom

[OgtheDim]

IF Delgado can stay disciplined and back there as a DM, he might work.

Otherwise, we have issues, cause neither Warner nor Creavalle know how to stay anchored back there, which will mean Bradley always going back again, like what was happening in the Chicago Fire away game.

[PopePouri]

I don't see how it isn't a one striker system, most likely a 4-3-3. It's what Vanney wants.

--------------------Bendik------------------------
---Bloom----Perquis----Caldwell-----Morrow---
---------------------Warner----------------------
-------------Bradley------------------------------
---------------------------Oso---------------------
---Giovinco-------Altidore---------------Findley-

[notthesun]

Giovinco is wasted out wide. We want a player like him on the ball constantly in the opponent's half.

I'm in favor of something similar to what jloome posted above. Perhaps a 4-3-2-1 with Giovinco and Gilberto tucked in centrally behind Altidore, if it proves that Jozy works better as a lone frontman.

[Ajax TFC]

I think playing with a trequartista behind Altidore will be killer. Giovinco + Altidore will be a lethal combination. It would also be possible to play a 4-4-1-1, but that would be a complete waste of all the strikers on the roster, plus our wide midfielders aren't very good.

[flamehawk]

--------------Altidore-------------
Gilberto----Giovinco*1-------Jackson*1
---------------------------------------------
--------Bradley--------New Signing*2------
Morrow-----Perquis------Caldwell------Bloom
-----------Bendik*3------------------

*1 Osorio
*2 Creavelle
*3 Bono

[DoubleUp]

Yeah, pretty much changes everything, lol.

-----------Alitidore---Gilberto---------
---------------Giovinco---------------
---------Osorio------Bradley--------
---------------Delgado--------------
Morrow--Caldwell--Hagglund--Bloom


This . As Notthesun said we want Gio with the ball feeding the two strikers with service/creativity, with Bradley and Osorio doing the retention in the middle just need someone to break up play(not sure about Delgado).

[PopePouri]

Giovinco is wasted out wide. We want a player like him on the ball constantly in the opponent's half.

I'm in favor of something similar to what jloome posted above. Perhaps a 4-3-2-1 with Giovinco and Gilberto tucked in centrally behind Altidore, if it proves that Jozy works better as a lone frontman.

He won't be isolated there. He'd be more of a Landon Donovan type player.

Bez also classifies him as a winger, not a 10.

[ensco]

Findley questions:

Does he still have that blazing speed? Can Findley be a MF winger in a 4-3-3? Can he cross the ball?

I wonder if we are going 4-2-4, like the Galaxy did numerous times with Beckham ... I think it's possible Bekker, sitting beside Bradley, with his long passing touch, could thrive in that setup.

[Kamp Berg]

I'm fairly new at this but could this work?

------------Altidore--------------Gilberto--------------

-------------------------Giovinco--------------------------

-------------------------Bradley----------------------------

-----------DM-------------------------------DM-----------

Morrow------Caldwell----Perquis------Bloom

Not sure what combo would work best at DM, maybe Warner + Bekker/Creavalle? Big guns up front, fullbacks push up, tight at the back/middle?

[Kamp Berg]

It's seems best to have Bradley work at as box to box midfielder.

[flamehawk]

He won't be isolated there. He'd be more of a Landon Donovan type player.

Bez also classifies him as a winger, not a 10.

Wait Bez has talked about Giovinco already? Where does he say that he considers him a winger?

[jloome]

I'm fairly new at this but could this work?

------------Altidore--------------Gilberto--------------

-------------------------Giovinco--------------------------

-------------------------Bradley----------------------------

-----------DM-------------------------------DM-----------

Morrow------Caldwell----Perquis------Bloom

Not sure what combo would work best at DM, maybe Warner + Bekker/Creavalle? Big guns up front, fullbacks push up, tight at the back/middle?

Yeah, that can work; it's sort of the staggered 4-3-3 some teams use.

Normally, it would be less directly central:

-----------Altidore-----------------
-------------------Gilberto---------
---------Giovinco----------------
----------------Bradley---------
---------Delgado----Warner?----------
Morrow---Cald.---Haggs/Perquis---Bloom

[jloome]

He won't be isolated there. He'd be more of a Landon Donovan type player.

Bez also classifies him as a winger, not a 10.

I believe what he said was it might be a number 10 and it might be a winger; Giovinco has a great skillset for an inverted winger (ala plata when RSL plays the 433) but he isn't used as such by Juve.

[jloome]

Findley questions:

Does he still have that blazing speed? Can Findley be a MF winger in a 4-3-3? Can he cross the ball?

I wonder if we are going 4-2-4, like the Galaxy did numerous times with Beckham ... I think it's possible Bekker, sitting beside Bradley, with his long passing touch, could thrive in that setup.

Don't know if he has the speed but he can't cross for shit in the air. Does serve a pretty good low cross, though.

[OgtheDim]

Don't know if he has the speed but he can't cross for shit in the air. Does serve a pretty good low cross, though.

Which kinda fits Altidore and Gilberto better. A lot of defenders in this league get away with playing big and physical cause the technical capabilities of the strikers is low. The hold up man they are used to is a Connor Casey or a Leinhart or a Gordon. They can't handle the ball to feet guys.

[jloome]

Which kinda fits Altidore and Gilberto better. A lot of defenders in this league get away with playing big and physical cause the technical capabilities of the strikers is low. The hold up man they are used to is a Connor Casey or a Leinhart or a Gordon. They can't handle the ball to feet guys.

It's true; on the odd occasions that AZ scored after prolonged control and buildup in their opponents' end (they really were a run-and-gun side), Altidore did really well --and at RBNY -- with the turn-and-shoot from the top of the box. At Sunderland, he never even tried it. Never looked confident there, even when he had time and space.

[Blixa]

Any approach that'll win us games.

[ManUtd4ever]

I think a diamond 4-4-2 makes the most sense based on the current roster.

---------------Bendik------------------

Bloom--Caldwell--Hagglund--Morrow

---------------Bradley-----------------

Jackson------------------------Findley

--------------Giovinco-----------------

------Gilberto----------Altidore-------

[pdubs]

Does Findley have the defensive workrate and brain to play in that position? Need to get the diamond correct. Rather have someone more natural their.

[Yohan]

Putting Findley in midfield is dumb. He's an out and out striker and that's about all he is

[MikeM]

I have never seen Giovinco be effective playing behind 2 strikers. He is more of a striker than an AM. He has little defensive work rate. He has limited vision or at least the willingness to pass.

He's been more effective as a winger for his entire career at Juve. He is good as a LW that cuts inside. But in MLS it's possible he could play centrally.

If you want to use Gio and Jozy properly it would be in a 4-3-3.

Giovinco-Altidore-_______.

[molenshtain]

....

[pdubs]

If we loose Gilberto...
Use Giovinco as a 2nd striker/winger and if MLS (as Twellmen has reported repeatedly) gets a 4th DP, go with a true CAM? Could become quite interesting come July. I hope we get to keep Gilberto but with the money we are throwing around this attack could become very dangerous.

Certainly opens up a ton of options for us. Would also make some sense since we have Findley and Dike as all out strikers.

edit- since Giovinco isn't a "true" CAM or "true" striker. I think he will do quite well in the CAM position in MLS tho.

[Kaz]

Yeah, pretty much changes everything, lol.

-----------Alitidore---Gilberto---------
---------------Giovinco---------------
---------Osorio------Bradley--------
---------------Delgado--------------
Morrow--Caldwell--Hagglund--Bloom

This is ideal and if we need to remove Gilberto, Moore fits in there nicely, with Findley and Dike as back ups.


If we bring in some MLS quality Defenders (CB specifically) this could be a dangerous combination, even with out Gilberto, with Gilberto, assuming the two of them play unselfish football with each other and are willing to set each other up... and Bradley and Osorio are allowed to float and cross back and forth...


The attacking half is really heavily covered.

[OgtheDim]

Kristian Jack ‏@KristianJack (https://twitter.com/KristianJack) 3m3 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/557264330455285761) Had a game of Subbuteo Toronto FC style after press conference with head coach Greg Vanney. Interview will be in a tactics piece on TSN.ca

[Areathrasher]

http://www.tsn.ca/talking-tactics-and-formations-with-tfc-s-vanney-1.186982

Excellent stuff here from KJ.

[Yohan]

http://www.tsn.ca/talking-tactics-and-formations-with-tfc-s-vanney-1.186982

Excellent stuff here from KJ.
agreed. excellent read

[ManUtd4ever]

Great read. It sounds like Vanney is going to use a 4-2-3-1 in possession. Bradley will be one of the DMs with the green light to join the attack and the other DM will provide defensive cover.


----------------------Bendik-------------------------

Bloom-----Caldwell--------New CB---------Morrow

------------Bradley---------New DM----------------

Jackson--------Osorio/Giovinco------------Gilberto

---------------------Altidore-------------------------

[Yohan]

Great read. It sounds like Vanney is going to use a 4-2-3-1 in possession. Bradley will be one of the DMs with the green light to join the attack and the other DM will provide defensive cover.


----------------------Bendik-------------------------

Bloom-----Caldwell--------New CB---------Morrow

------------Bradley---------New DM----------------

Jackson--------Osorio/Giovinco------------Gilberto

---------------------Altidore-------------------------
If Vanney is going with 4-2-3-1, it will be after Giovinco arrives. But I think 4-3-3 makes more sense at least the start of the season.
My reason being we don't have anyone else who can play a 10. Osorio doesn't have the range of passing. Bekker I already said enough about lol. Chapman is unproven.
'Safer' to play 4-3-3 which IMO is less reliant on a CAM (depends on which version of 4-3-3 you play) and TFC has more wingers/wide forwards suited to a 4-3-3 than 4-2-3-1 at the moment.
Of course, Vanney might just play a 4-4-2 variant. Maybe 4-1-4-1? Basically any formation that does not rely on a CAM to drive the offence

[Ajax TFC]

I love hearing Vanney talk about tactics. It's such a breath of fresh air to hear a TFC coach say things that make sense and that I agree fully with. Not just "our team's going to work really hard to win games".
From what I gather, we could see something like:

-------------Findley-----Altidore------------------
-------------------------------------------Oduro---
----------Osorio--------------Bradley-------------
----------------------Delgado----------------------
-Morrow-------Perquis---Caldwell--------Bloom-
-----------------------Bendik----------------------

When Giovenco comes in, it could be something like:

-----------------------Altidore----------\----------
----Osorio-----Giovenco----------------Findley--
---------------------------------^-----------------
-----------------Delgado----Bradley------------
----^-----------------------------------------^-----
-Morrow------Perquis----Caldwell------Bloom--
----------------------Bendik-----------------------

[MartinUtd]

Is Delgado the guy we got from the Chivas dispersal? I know nothing at all about him, is he good enough to walk into this team? I take it he's a DM.

[jloome]

Is Delgado the guy we got from the Chivas dispersal? I know nothing at all about him, is he good enough to walk into this team? I take it he's a DM.

More a wide player; mostly played as a fullback but deputized at central mid and wing for Chivas. He's really young but looked great for the Goats; reads the play really well and has great technique. But he's has knee surgery twice already so he might be fragile. I think if he holds together he'd be a really good DM.

EDIT: Having said that, I think Creavalle has much more potential that he has shown so far, too. He's the same kind of monster athlete as Henry.

[MartinUtd]

Cheers.
I was wondering about Craevalle and what his role will play, wasn't he supposed to be a DM but ended up at fullback? Then there's Warner, more depth or surplus to requirement now? It seems we have a lot of mediocrity in our midfield once you get past the star signings and I can't imagine them all staying the entire season considering our U22 roster being filled out as well.

[dutch]

This guy could sell ice to an eskimo. like others before him, you can talk about what you want, but the guys may not implement it. I hope to hell this thing floats

[ensco]

We can all find interviews from every last guy we've had here that left you feeling "aha this guy gets it".

The spending spree is striking in comparison to how we cheap out on managers, and increases the pressure on Vanney.

Only one of our eight managers in franchise history wasn't a raw rookie at this. My view is Vanney may be a great guy but I am sick of rookie managers, the likelihood of a midseason change seems damn near 100% to me.

[Ajax TFC]

^Tbh, I can think of a number of times when I've thought that "this guy is just spewing out BS". Or they talk overall philosophy, but nothing about actual strategy. Some recent examples include: Mariner telling us that his approach will be to kick it into the (English) channel, or Nelsen saying that his team's style will be to work really hard all over the pitch to get wins. I think Vanney is the first guy since Bob de Klerk that has talked some sensible strategy. The difference is that Vanney's team looks to be a cohesive unit, and has the MLS experience to build a team.

[dutch]

The spending spree is striking in comparison to how we cheap out on managers, and increases the pressure on Vanney.
Only one of our eight managers in franchise history wasn't a raw rookie at this. My view is Vanney may be a great guy but I am sick of rookie managers, the likelihood of a midseason change seems damn near 100% to me.

This is exactly how I feel. If your gonna make it rain at least hire a proven leader.

[dutch]

The difference is that Vanney's team looks to be a cohesive unit, and has the MLS experience to build a team.

11 games in, Vanney hasnt fielded a team that looks cohesive yet. He mentions some of the problems he was having last year in that article.
I think a good team can succeed even without a good manager as long as theyre is unity and teamwork. I hope all these guys can get it right.
Unfortunately with DP's and media attention and tons of failure. I believe we have always had one of the worst locker rooms in MLS
where every saturday night, someone walks the plank

[ManUtd4ever]

I think it's fairly evident that Vanney is a student of the game. Unfortunately, that in of itself does not constitute a successful manager at the professional level. It remains to be seen whether he can motivate and discipline our players. He needs to prove that he can be a leader.

On paper, our squad should be a contender for a top playoff seed in the East when the dust settles. The rest is up to the coaching staff.

[Ajax TFC]

11 games in, Vanney hasnt fielded a team that looks cohesive yet. He mentions some of the problems he was having last year in that article.
I think a good team can succeed even without a good manager as long as theyre is unity and teamwork. I hope all these guys can get it right.
Unfortunately with DP's and media attention and tons of failure. I believe we have always had one of the worst locker rooms in MLS
where every saturday night, someone walks the plank
Sorry, I just realized that I wasn't at all clear what I meant. By vanney's "team", i was referring to the management team around him. Him and Bez seem to be on the same page, and presumable the assistants are too since he picked them and has worked with them before

[Super]

I prefer to watch attacking football, and if we're kicking off the season with 3-4 DP's - and considering their pedigree - surely we should be able to pull that off in this league. It's really all down to the coach.

[Hieberrr]

I prefer to watch attacking football, and if we're kicking off the season with 3-4 DP's - and considering their pedigree - surely we should be able to pull that off in this league. It's really all down to the coach.
We're kicking off the season with 2 DPs unless we're permitted to have 4 on our roster. Giovinco isn't joining until the summer, iirc.

[Leedsoronto]

1. Pass to our own players, not the opposition

2. Play all 90 mins plus extra T, no sleepy time at 89

3. When we score, no sitting back on a one goal lead

4. If the team loses after a crap game just say it was a crap game and we was poor, in the post match, not blame everything else or moons not in alignment for us, be honest and address it !!

[MightyDM]

"Ajax TFC: Tbh, I can think of a number of times when I've thought that "this guy is just spewing out BS". Or they talk overall philosophy, but nothing about actual strategy. Some recent examples include: Mariner telling us that his approach will be to kick it into the (English) channel, or Nelsen saying that his team's style will be to work really hard all over the pitch to get wins. I think Vanney is the first guy since Bob de Klerk that has talked some sensible strategy. The difference is that Vanney's team looks to be a cohesive unit, and has the MLS experience to build a team."


Nelsen was out of the English tradition where managers do not reveal their tactics. And I agree with him. Vanney sounds good, and he seems like a nice man, but I'd rather he tell us less and do more. His spell last year sure didn't engender confidence in his ability to translate good press conferences into good play.

[Super]

We're kicking off the season with 2 DPs unless we're permitted to have 4 on our roster. Giovinco isn't joining until the summer, iirc.

Yes, true. I was thinking we'd have 3-4 DP's locked in. Still a chance we kick off the season with 3.

[jloome]

We can all find interviews from every last guy we've had here that left you feeling "aha this guy gets it".


Nope. This is the first.

Sorry dude but I just flat disagree with that. We haven't a coach who ever discussed tactics to this depth and who obviously understood what he was talking about in terms of tactical adaption to circumstance. Not even close.

[molenshtain]

Nope. This is the first.

Sorry dude but I just flat disagree with that. We haven't a coach who ever discussed tactics to this depth and who obviously understood what he was talking about in terms of tactical adaption to circumstance. Not even close.

Winter, maybe. But that didn't work for obvious reason. other than that I totally agree. I also think the key thing is that Vanney has armed himself with far and away the most experienced and MLS capable coaching staff we've had.

[jloome]

Winter, maybe. But that didn't work for obvious reason. other than that I totally agree. I also think the key thing is that Vanney has armed himself with far and away the most experienced and MLS capable coaching staff we've had.

The one area where they really cross over is that Winter also favored having a baseline system of prescribed movement options, a checklist of best ways to find and open space between the opponent's lines. We were far too shit to adapt to it quickly and he and his coaching staff mostly unable to get anyone but Soolsma and Danny K to understand it.

But that was the interesting part of Vanney's spiel; I've always rather suspected we had "player's coaches" who favored choosing a formation and then letting the players freelance based on a general knowledge of role. It explains a lot of basic inability we've had to break apart traps and full-field pressure, as well as our inability to create space in the offensive end. Certainly, it's how we looked under Mariner, Carver, Nelsen and Mo. Same basic "work hard, beat your man, cross the ball" mentality, instead of trying to unlock the other team by being ultra-prepared for tactical opportunism.

Question is whether he can sell it, whether they buy into his personality and drive; adding Fraser and a few others certainly has the potential to help.

[Kaz]

1. Pass to our own players, not the opposition

2. Play all 90 mins plus extra T, no sleepy time at 89

3. When we score, no sitting back on a one goal lead

4. If the team loses after a crap game just say it was a crap game and we was poor, in the post match, not blame everything else or moons not in alignment for us, be honest and address it !!

Would you be ok if Vanney says "We were poor" instead of We was poor? I don't think he can pull of a Chav Track Suit.

[OgtheDim]

..

Question is whether he can sell it, whether they buy into his personality and drive; adding Fraser and a few others certainly has the potential to help.

I suspect the players unwilling to learn this were identified already and are being shopped around, if not released.

[Leedsoronto]

Would you be ok if Vanney says "We were poor" instead of We was poor? I don't think he can pull of a Chav Track Suit.

"I finx we was piss pour" would suffice

[Kaz]

"I finx we was piss pour" would suffice

My Doubleganger has a friend from Norfolk. First one in her village to learn to read 5 letter words in 50 years... she hasn't mastered writing yet so her UncleCousinBrother still writes all the town cheques. She is hoping to master her maths and get her A level before she retires though..


She says Learn to speak, that isn't even Normal for Norfolk.

;)

[ensco]

Nope. This is the first.

Sorry dude but I just flat disagree with that. We haven't a coach who ever discussed tactics to this depth and who obviously understood what he was talking about in terms of tactical adaption to circumstance. Not even close.

I was talking about people getting these great vibes from the latest new manager's carefully delivered pearls of wisdom. Happens every time. I fell for it from Mo, and from Nelsen. Everyone here will have a different list of who they bought into early because he "sounded" right about something.

To your point, I think this is maybe 25% of a manager's job and is hugely overrated.

The formation stuff distracts people. Barcelona at its best played what looked liked a 0-10-0 with the whole thing built around triangle passing, Guardiola looked at people with blank stares when asked what formation he was playing.

[hulkrogan]

"I finx we was piss pour" would suffice

:smilielol5:

http://images.lazygamer.net/2013/01/AliG.jpg

[Areathrasher]

I was talking about people getting these great vibes from the latest new manager's carefully delivered pearls of wisdom. Happens every time. I fell for it from Mo, and from Nelsen. Everyone here will have a different list of who they bought into early because he "sounded" right about something.

To your point, I think this is maybe 25% of a manager's job and is hugely overrated.

The formation stuff distracts people. Barcelona at its best played what looked liked a 0-10-0 with the whole thing built around triangle passing, Guardiola looked at people with blank stares when asked what formation he was playing.

And he probably followed it up by saying "I don't believe in formations we play as a collective" or something like that :lol:

[Kaz]

OK learning a little more about Giovinco... I don't know how the midfield will look


--------------Altidore--------------
----------Giovinco(f)-----------------
--------Osorio------Lovitz----------
----------Bradley(f)-------------------
--------------Warner---------------
Morrow---Caldwell-CB------Bloom

If Bradley is playing a more defensive feeding role you need the Attacking (I use the term loosely) Mids to take the ball.
Do if Bradley is floating a bit, and Giovinco floats between Mid and a 2nd Striker role that could be interesting.


Or you leave Bradley alone in the Back in the way we wasted Frings and put two strikers and put Giovinco in a role more like how DeRo was used but with more playmaking.

[MightyDM]

I don't think the question for the club this year is really about formation, although it is fun to speculate. The question is whether Vanney can coach. At best the jury is out with all on field evidence unfortunately to the contrary. The circumstances give him a mulligan, but certainly there is a big doubt about whether he can translate these press conferences into on field performances. For me, the bizarre press conference about all the analytical stuff, especially measuring grit, made me think that he and Bez are both theorists not on the field leaders. I really hope I am wrong - the players we have acquired suggest that the team is setting up to be really fun to watch - but it's hard to draw any other conclusion from what we have seen and heard so far.

[tsn3]

OK learning a little more about Giovinco... I don't know how the midfield will look


--------------Altidore--------------
----------Giovinco(f)-----------------
--------Osorio------Lovitz----------
----------Bradley(f)-------------------
--------------Warner---------------
Morrow---Caldwell-CB------Bloom

If Bradley is playing a more defensive feeding role you need the Attacking (I use the term loosely) Mids to take the ball.
Do if Bradley is floating a bit, and Giovinco floats between Mid and a 2nd Striker role that could be interesting.


Or you leave Bradley alone in the Back in the way we wasted Frings and put two strikers and put Giovinco in a role more like how DeRo was used but with more playmaking.

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21168/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

[pdubs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRH33TcYfs0

[Areathrasher]

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21187/formation.png (http://football-formation.com) Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

When Giovinco arrives

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21188/formation.png (http://football-formation.com) Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

[jloome]

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21187/formation.png (http://football-formation.com) Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

When Giovinco arrives

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21188/formation.png (http://football-formation.com) Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

I suspect we're going to see variations of:

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21190/formation.png
http://football-formation.com/lineup/21190/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

[OgtheDim]

I do remember Vanney saying he wants his RB and LB to get forward. Might lead to sometimes playing a bit more like this

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21191/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

[Areathrasher]

I can see that formation but I'm not convinced that Warner playing next Bradley will work. As Og alluded to, Vanney has spoken of wanting his full backs to get up and over lap so I can see the midfield being narrow.

[Kaz]

is there a reason everyone puts Delgado in the starting XI I mean he was a guy that started 12 games last year on one of the worse teams in the league.. He is just 19-20 he is going to be a depth player most likely.

[BuSaPuNk]

is there a reason everyone puts Delgado in the starting XI I mean he was a guy that started 12 games last year on one of the worse teams in the league.. He is just 19-20 he is going to be a depth player most likely.

I see him starting the year in USL Pro if he doesn't blow any Vanney in thr preseason.

[Kaz]

I see him starting the year in USL Pro if he doesn't blow any Vanney in thr preseason.

Totally agree but I have seen a few people thinking he will be starting on the first team, I'm sure he is good. I'm not sure he is a first choice guy.

[dutch]

I love the effort lol. A left and right back who know how to defend first and have a understanding of moving back and forth with the mids at pace. 1 center back who can control the line, In control of defense, bringing the ball forward to Bradley. Truth is I'd trade Altidore and my right nut for 2 great MLS CB's. Thats always been what we needed

[BuSaPuNk]

Totally agree but I have seen a few people thinking he will be starting on the first team, I'm sure he is good. I'm not sure he is a first choice guy.

Yeah i like his ability to play multiple positions and that would be good for bench depth cause if i remeber correctly hes played at RB and midfield at Chivas.

His contract is low last year he was on 77k guaranteed so it might be better if hes in that price range still to have in the the squad even if he doesn't dress every week.

[trane]

I think some variation of a 4-4-1-1, will be the thing, centralizing the attack around Giovanco and Altidore, and putting Bradley in the middle of everything else, with a partner that can defend when he goes forward.

We need to stay tight, compact and organized and to keep it simple going forward, running it either through the middle with Bradley and Giovinco, or on the wings, who will then cross it in to Jozy. KISS.

Defend then quick intelligent counters. A la Italia 2006 or Inter 2010.

[ManUtd4ever]

Without any highly skilled wingers, a 4-4-1-1 probably makes the most sense.

[MightyDM]

I think some variation of a 4-4-1-1, will be the thing, centralizing the attack around Giovanco and Altidore, and putting Bradley in the middle of everything else, with a partner that can defend when he goes forward.

We need to stay tight, compact and organized and to keep it simple going forward, running it either through the middle with Bradley and Giovinco, or on the wings, who will then cross it in to Jozy. KISS.

Defend then quick intelligent counters. A la Italia 2006 or Inter 2010.


Sounds a a bit like what Nelsen was having us do..... ;)

[trane]

^ He tried it worked for a while, and then it fell flat. But I think that the totality of the pieces is more suited for the system this year, with a true CF and a 10 that can play right behind him. The only issue with it is that Giovinco will need to stay away from traffic.

[Initial B]

I don't think any team should have only one formation. They should have at least three different formations that they can switch up versus different opponents and/or situations.

[JuliquE]

Current(-ish) Formation: 4-2-1-1-2 (4-3-3 variant; first team & squad depth)

http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2015/01/1189589_Toronto_FC.jpg http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2015/01/1189609_Toronto_FC.jpg

'Keepers:


Bendik is serviceable, in this league, but, as has been mentioned ad nauseam, his distribution leaves much to be desired. Here's hoping Bono slowly overtakes him, as he gains experience/confidence, first, as a back-up.


Defenders:


Pace a concern, in the centre of defence, but pedigree should see them better positioned to snuff out danger. Hagglund can be thrown in when any particular opponent calls for a more atheltic option. Bloom, I hope, won't find himself so often out of position and picking up fouls, after a full pre-season under Vanney's guide (former LB). The two DM's also provide cover for our FB's, who will be required, at times, to provide width, in the absence of any quality wingers out wide.


DM's:


Not quite the standard of a serious contender, for me, but maybe having two (instead of one), on strict instruction to "stay home," will make up for a lack of quality.


CM:


Bradley, with what you might call ample cover in defence, and a quality number ten in front of him, will have the freedom to get his head up and spray passes, find/link up with Giovinco, and pick his moments to make late runs, or to help pressurize, when out of possession, for that matter. Not being over-relied upon on either end, and with some better quality movement around him, will see Bradley's best unlocked.


AM:


Giovinco will have the keys to the attack, and has enough quality around him that he shouldn't be starved for passing options, when he's not having a pop, himself.


Forwards:


Not the most likely of partnerships, admittedly, as they, in many ways, are very similar players. That said, the type of game they play, should they develop something of an understanding, DOES have the potential to be complimentary. I personally feel that both will do well with us, this year—Gilberto, having a year's experience under his belt, and Altidore, returning to the league, with something to prove.

** * **

Hopeful Future Formation: 4-2-3-1

http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2015/01/1189600_Toronto_FC.jpg

DM:


A Laba2-type should be able to handle shielding the back four, on his own, with Bradley in support, when it makes sense.


Attack-minded MF's:


Gilberto has played wide for most of his career; here, whilst, again, finding himself playing wider than he'd probably like, he'll have more license to cut inside and maybe play some one-twos with Altidore or anyone else in the final third. Osorio, I think, can do a job as one of three AM's, especially when he and Gilberto swap sides and keep the opponent guessing, as he did with Jackson, last year, and without the responsibility of being our go-to guy for creativity, in a CAM role. Again, all of the front four positions can be somewhat interchangeable, a la Chelsea. Gio will, of course, still be The Man, in the attack.


CF:


Altidore's strength will better allow for all our attacking options, including Bradley, to join the attack and find themselves in dangerous space.

[Kaz]

Given our current pieces I'd slot Bradley up a bit.. and I'm using Warner because he is there, but any DM beside Bradley and let Bradley float up a bit.

Osorio isn't really a winger and so he'd likely float in and Lovitz and Oduro are really interchangeable there.
Given our pieces. We need wingers that can cross which is what we were missing last year.
http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2015/01/1189989_Toronto_FC.jpg

[Detroit_TFC]

Looks like Klinsmann is rolling out a 3-5-2 system for USMNT.

[jloome]

Looks like Klinsmann is rolling out a 3-5-2 system for USMNT.

I really think Klinnsy is losing his luster.

[Detroit_TFC]

I really think Klinnsy is losing his luster.

I was surprised to see some commentators speaking favorably about the change, notably to put a player behind and in front of MB rather than trying to use him as a #10. Not sure that set up will work if the intended guy behind MB is Jermaine Jones, he will want to go forward constantly. In any case I expect a hot mess tonight vs Chile, can't see how people could have internalized this big of a change so quickly.

[jloome]

I was surprised to see some commentators speaking favorably about the change, notably to put a player behind and in front of MB rather than trying to use him as a #10. Not sure that set up will work if the intended guy behind MB is Jermaine Jones, he will want to go forward constantly. In any case I expect a hot mess tonight vs Chile, can't see how people could have internalized this big of a change so quickly.

Klinsmann is an experimenter, and he's ruining that team. They haven't played a solid first-team lineup since he took charge, so there's no cohesion whatsoever. It's like watching a bad MLS team.

[Detroit_TFC]

Klinsmann is an experimenter, and he's ruining that team. They haven't played a solid first-team lineup since he took charge, so there's no cohesion whatsoever. It's like watching a bad MLS team.

Can't disagree with any of that. I would be fine with him staying the USSF Senior Technical Dir or even becoming USSF President to replace Sunil Gulati. But his decisions managing the USMNT squad continue to be very questionable.

[trane]

3-5-2 is becoming a standard formation, in light of how attacking the average fullback is in today's game, they are really wing-back, it was almost inevitable. I like it, three CBs, then either a playmaking DM (Bradley) or two DMs, wingbacks, two or one CM, one AM, one CF, one SS/WF.

[Detroit_TFC]

The USMNT 3-5-2 wasn't as bad as I expected. Jermaine Jones was terrible as CB though. Put Geoff Cameron in there, it would have been much better. The shift to 4-4-2, which JA called "a more comfortable formation" in the post game interview, was a hot mess.

[Defoe]

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/webkit-fake-url://07B0A424-10BD-4BE3-A2C4-9C221233DFEA/formation.png


http://football-formation.com/lineup/21363/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)

[Smokecell]

http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2015/01/1191989_Toronto_FC.jpg

For me the main players on this team scream a 4-4-2 diamond considering we have no quality wingers however I would caution that for this to ultimately be successful we need better options than Oso and Jax. TFC still has a few players they need to bring in to be a contender.

[Initial B]

Seeing how Klinsmann just used JA and MB in a 3-5-2, what about this?
http://football-formation.com/lineup/21364/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Who says Morrow has to be so far back? Perhaps Vanney is planning on using defensive and offensive wingbacks on opposite sides?

[Smokecell]

Seeing how Klinsmann just used JA and MB in a 3-5-2, what about this?
http://football-formation.com/lineup/21364/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Who says Morrow has to be so far back? Perhaps Vanney is planning on using defensive and offensive wingbacks on opposite sides?

Way too many players playing out of position there and just not enough quality to pull off the 3-5-2

[jloome]

I wonder if they'll be tempted to groom a new wrecker out of Creavalle/Thomas/Mannella/Hagglund/Simonin/Zavaleta/Delgado?

All of those guys are defensive specialists, all of them are athletic and able to play the ball from their feet (except maybe Thomas), all of them might end up getting more time and being more useful if we used them as the holder.

[jloome]

Given our current pieces I'd slot Bradley up a bit.. and I'm using Warner because he is there, but any DM beside Bradley and let Bradley float up a bit.

Osorio isn't really a winger and so he'd likely float in and Lovitz and Oduro are really interchangeable there.
Given our pieces. We need wingers that can cross which is what we were missing last year.
http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2015/01/1189989_Toronto_FC.jpg

I think this is what we're going to see, except Jackson is likely going to start on the right because of his pace and strength. They'll work hard on his delivery, based on what Vanney said at the end of the season about our crossing being too target-oriented and not about putting the ball into dangerous places.

And of course we have Perquis now.

I'd be interested in seeing how either Delgado or Zavaleta did in that DM role, as both are noted for their ability to read and intercept. Delgado was best at RB for Chivas, and a lot of his clips are of effectively cutting off lanes, runs and passes. And Zavaleta was brought in for his ability to read the game, as well as having good aerial ability AND good feet from being a striker when younger.

They're both young enough that developing them as specialists could really pay benefits.

[OgtheDim]

Based on listening to Vanney today, come August, this is what we will be playing

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21365/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)


Apart from Warner, that's a strong first team squad.

This is how I see the B team by then.

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21366/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)

A lot of those B squad players can play multiple positions, as can Osorio, so there is a lot of flexibility.

[trane]

I wonder if they'll be tempted to groom a new wrecker out of Creavalle/Thomas/Mannella/Hagglund/Simonin/Zavaleta/Delgado?

All of those guys are defensive specialists, all of them are athletic and able to play the ball from their feet (except maybe Thomas), all of them might end up getting more time and being more useful if we used them as the holder.

I would. Someone with some pace, vision (both ways) and decent passing/distribution.

[PopePouri]

Based on listening to Vanney today, come August, this is what we will be playing

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21365/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)


Apart from Warner, that's a strong first team squad.

This is how I see the B team by then.

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21366/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)

A lot of those B squad players can play multiple positions, as can Osorio, so there is a lot of flexibility.

This makes the most sense. The only difference I have with the 2nd lineup is I see Delgado backup at right back and Creavalle in the middle.

[mcolvy]

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21372/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

Need a Winger still boys.

[pdubs]

Based on listening to Vanney today, come August, this is what we will be playing

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21365/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)


Apart from Warner, that's a strong first team squad.

This is how I see the B team by then.

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21366/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)

A lot of those B squad players can play multiple positions, as can Osorio, so there is a lot of flexibility.

Put in Cheyrou for Warner and I think we have our formation. Not sure about Findley in a wide midfield position but we will have to see.

[gmacpheetfc]

------------------------Bendik------------------
------------Caldwell--Perquis--Zavaleta-----
-----Jackson-----Cheyou----Bradley----Morrow
-------------------------Giovinco----------------
---------------------Finley-----Altidore------

[TheGoodson]

I really hope Vanney doesn't try three in the back.. We don't have the centre backs to play it. That requries CB that can pass the ball with confidence and able to have the ball at their feet. Maybe Perquis could play like that but Caldwell and Hagglund/or who ever doesn't inspire confidence when they have the ball at their feet

[gmacpheetfc]

You just need one of the three CBs to be able to pass for it to work.

[tsn3]

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21386/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)

Need more depth in right wing/forward. Would be good to see Hamilton get some minutes there.

[ag futbol]

I see this being their "alternate" setup if they want to find Giovinco some space:

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21452/formation.png (http://football-formation.com) Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

[ronzilla]

I think 4-3-1-2. and 4-4-2 are the best 2 formations.

[Ajax TFC]

I think a 4-4-1-1 would be a good alternative formation if Giovinco needs to roam more to find space. Something like:

-----------------Altidore------------------
-----------------Giovinco-----------------
Lovitz---Cheyrou------Bradley--Delgado
Morrow -- Perquis -- Caldwell -- Bloom
------------------Bendik------------------

Or even a 3-5-2 could be possible with the midfielders that we have. Something like:

-----------Findley----Altidore-------------
---------------Giovinco--------------------
Morgan--------------Bradley-----Delgado
----------------Cheyrou-------------------
------Perquis--Caldwell--Zavaleta-------

[Yohan]

I'm having a serious debate with myself whether I want to see Giovinco at CAM or at LW. He'll be more important and options at CAM, but generally MLS fullbacks aren't very good, so he'll win more 1v1 battles at LW and still cut inside to create offence. MLS teams are starting to put a lot of money at DM position

[jloome]

I'm having a serious debate with myself whether I want to see Giovinco at CAM or at LW. He'll be more important and options at CAM, but generally MLS fullbacks aren't very good, so he'll win more 1v1 battles at LW and still cut inside to create offence. MLS teams are starting to put a lot of money at DM position

WE could actually have him interchange with Osorio over the course of the match; would seriously screw with defenders to have two guys who can run at them crossing over, and when he switches inside to out, it'll draw central defenders wide and create space.

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21455/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

We could also go with an inverted 4-3-3

http://football-formation.com/lineup/21463/formation.png (http://football-formation.com)
Create your own lineup at football-formation.com (http://football-formation.com)

[Defoe]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10174847_10152559540051805_5188672687544190050_n.j pg?oh=1b84d93124262651621d2c97c98cfc5e&oe=55217820&__gda__=1430913861_7e0c65e17236d6d28b61c72eb432c0e 7 (https://www.facebook.com/torontofc/photos/a.151267901804.123035.10611651804/10152559540051805/?type=1&theater)

[dutch]

what do you think is the best formation
for this team and who are your starting 11.
I like a 3-4-3 with bradley and cheyrou side by side, perquis at cb. dike giovinco and altidore up front. I hope dike is healthy or we're stuck with jackson.

Sorry it was written on my phine

[portu]

LOL at any chance of a 3-4-3.
On a more serious note I think it'll be a 4 (Morrow, Perquis, Caldwell, Bloom) - 2 (Cheyrou, Bradley) - 3 (Osorio, Giovinco, Jackson) - 1(Altidore) with Bendik in goal

[burlington Red]

if we play we 3-4-3 you can have my season tic

[Yohan]

what do you think is the best formation
for this team and who are your starting 11.
I like a 3-4-3 with bradley and cheyrou side by side, perquis at cb. dike giovinco and altidore up front. I hope dike is healthy or we're stuck with jackson.

Sorry it was written on my phine
http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread.php?36972-What-tactical-approach-do-you-favor-this-season

[SKB]

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Bloom Caldwell Perquis Morrow

Bradley Cheyrou

Findley Giovinco Osorio

Altidore

[OgtheDim]

It seems really weird to say this, but we seem to have quality subs in every position but one.

LB


Is there not anybody on this team but Morgan to trot out there in case Morrow goes down injured again, or needs a break?

[Hieberrr]

I really hope this team plays well. I just played FIFA with the updated rosters, sans Perquis, and it was a nightmare.

I know, sort of irrelevant lol.

[portu]

I really hope this team plays well. I just played FIFA with the updated rosters, sans Perquis, and it was a nightmare.

I know, sort of irrelevant lol.
really? ive been playing with them online in seasons and have been wiping floors in div 3. i switched them to a 4-3-3 (holding) tho with gio on the wing and oso in the middle with cheyrou and bradley

[dutch]

I was going to ask if theres a place on the forum for EA FIFA. Im playing the updated roster and loving it. A depth in various positions. I think we're loaded for bear
cheyrou and perquis are very underrated

[Shway]

really? ive been playing with them online in seasons and have been wiping floors in div 3. i switched them to a 4-3-3 (holding) tho with gio on the wing and oso in the middle with cheyrou and bradley

I was in division 6, and started using TFC. I must say with the lineup I use below, I have been tearing it up and now I'm division 2.

I play a 3-5-2:

------altidore-------gilberto
Findlay------gio-------Moore
------Bradley------Cheyrou
Morrow-Perquis-Creavelle

High line, high pressure, high tempo

With gilberto soon to be off the roster, I'll push gio to fw and insert oso in the cam.

Relating this to real life now, I think we need to have Bradley, Cheyrou, Jozy, and Gio all in the middle of the field, with some wide players to stretch the field to create space for distribution and combinations between that key middle four.

I have seen a lot of mentions of Oso playing out wide or in a LM/RM position, and quite frankly his game is not suited for wing play.

All in all we need to have our best players in the spine of the field. Thats how all the best teams standout and most importantly win.

[Defoe]

I was going to ask if theres a place on the forum for EA FIFA. Im playing the updated roster and loving it. A depth in various positions. I think we're loaded for bear
cheyrou and perquis are very underrated

I thought I would one day give up fifa, but I'm probably going to buy fifa 15. The game provides so much knowledge. It's not just a game, you can pretty much find out the exact stadiums, players, leagues of every team. The ratings are so bang on to there abilities, or at least give you a general idea. I would struggle to know all the south american teams/players without it.

[dutch]

I agree, theyre rating system has never been far off in the many years I played it. I was surprised how high they rated perquis, cheyrou at first. I do believe theyre ratings more than the lack of info I've seen in the papers. You can always learn more in this game, I buy the new FIFA every 2-3 years so I can have the updated rosters. draft picks dont show up in the old games lol. Best TFC roster yet, you can put the 2014, 2013 even 2009, 2010 rosters up against it and its clear this is the best yet.

[portu]

I agree, theyre rating system has never been far off in the many years I played it. I was surprised how high they rated perquis, cheyrou at first. I do believe theyre ratings more than the lack of info I've seen in the papers. You can always learn more in this game, I buy the new FIFA every 2-3 years so I can have the updated rosters. draft picks dont show up in the old games lol. Best TFC roster yet, you can put the 2014, 2013 even 2009, 2010 rosters up against it and its clear this is the best yet.

have to agree on the ratings thing i always hate when mls fans complain about ratings especially since theyve improved a shit ton since way back when. I still hear Revs fans complain about lee nguyen 75 rating like they expect him to be rated 85 or something

[Ajax TFC]

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Bloom Caldwell Perquis Morrow

Bradley Cheyrou

Findley Giovinco Osorio

Altidore
Yup. I'm 95% sure this will be our first choice XI. When you consider all the interviews with the players and Vanney, this is the formation that makes the most sense. Osorio said that the two positions he's been practicing in are the AM and left side cutting in. He also said he can fill in CM if he has to. That's the only formation I can think of that has CMs, AMs, and wide men playing inside. Then there's also Vanney talking about how it'll be two of Bradley, Cheyrou, and Warner, and that Giovinco will play AM. I'm guessing Osorio will be the left winger and Giovinco's backup in the middle. Or they'll interchange.

[Lennon]

I thought I would one day give up fifa, but I'm probably going to buy fifa 15. The game provides so much knowledge. It's not just a game, you can pretty much find out the exact stadiums, players, leagues of every team. The ratings are so bang on to there abilities, or at least give you a general idea. I would struggle to know all the south american teams/players without it.

Football Manager > FIFA in terms of ratings. Way more teams and players too.

[mcolvy]

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Bloom Caldwell Perquis Morrow

Bradley Cheyrou

Findley Giovinco Osorio

Altidore

Agreed. This is right on. It may technically be listed as 4-1-4-1, with Bradley listed beside Giovinco instead of beside Cheyrou, but as we all know, Bradley will be connecting the two.

The more I think this through, I see TFC playing like New England in their suito 4231/4141.
Bunbury-findley - wing striker playing outside that comes inside as a second striker
Jones- Bradley - midfield General
Rowe-osorio - technical player who cuts inside from the left wing
Nguyen- giovinco - controls the team and scores from a central attacking position
Tierney - morrow - attacking left fullback to support the winger that cutsinside.
Caldwell- Cheyrou - Holding midfield that is conservative enough to allow general to roam.
Davies(agudelo)-Altidore - forward who can hold the ball up/ play the channels.

Can we just overpay Heaps to come in and use his system with our comparable team?

[barticusz]

Football Manager > FIFA in terms of ratings. Way more teams and players too.

Speaking of Fifa 15, I ran a couple of career seasons as Hamilton.. meaning I barely got any games and simmed most of the first three years. With our current lineup we made to the Semi's the first year.. won MLS cup the following year and made the semi's again the year after. Cheyrou is really fun to play with, just fantastic passing from him and control. Giovinco ended up being the player of the year in MLS twice, with Altidore getting it the other time.

Looking forward to this year, because you know.. Fifa can predict everything :D.

[Blixa]

I'll take any tactical approach that'll win us games.

[Detroit_TFC]

On one hand: that's FIFA 15, that's only a simulation...

On the other hand: SWEEEEEEQQQQklds;kasdkadlkj