EXPANSION: Vancouver or Montreal Announcement Today?

[profit89]

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/07/expansion-vancouver-or-montreal.html

[Tintin]

Montreal. When you have a guy like Gilette involved, it makes sense for MLS.

[egoodwin]

if it's Montreal, it would be one hell of a week for them

[profit89]

Frankly, I hope it's MTL because that would set up a mouth-watering derby.

Even better would be if they replace (rather than expand) one of the bottom-feeders like kc or columbus who cant get shit when it comes to support

[GabrielHurl]

kinda negates this story

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2008/07/21/mls-expansion-canada.html

[rocker]

somebody on Voyageurs said the premier of BC was gonna be at the all-star game... which made people wonder if he's just there to talk up Vanny for MLS or there to sit behind the table when they announce the team.

I can't see an announcement BEFORE the game tho.. leagues don't like to upstage their events in this way.

[Sab0tage]

I think they'd announce it before rather than after. This year the NBA announced their plan to potentially expand into Europe and make a European conference/division, and they announced this before the game.

[rocker]

admittedly, it would be an appropriate time to announce a canadian team.

[TFC Cityboy]

give it to Vancouver rather than those inbreds we saw last night

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Prefer Montreal (even tho i despise those bastards with all my heart, I hate them like i hate columbus). But i think its going to be Vancouver.

IF this happens at all...

[Damien]

Steve Nash said he had a special All-Star announcement... he's from Vancouver.

[Antoshka]

mls rumors? did they ever get anything right?

[rocker]

give it to Vancouver rather than those inbreds we saw last night

ya but vanny fucked us over in this Cup by rolling over and playing DEAD against Montreal and then actually coming to play against TFC. cunts.

at least we didn't lose a game to Montreal.... so I say let in montreal first.

[Dirk Diggler]

It has to be Montreal. They have everything in place. If they choose a 60,000 stadium in BC Place over a SSS in Stade Saputo, a lot of people will be pissed.

[profit89]

Montreal for 2009... Plus Seattle... Single Table, 16 teams.. that would be amazing.

This league would take off !!!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Give it to Montreal! They deserve it and i can't wait to fuck'em really good in league games!!

[giambac]

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2008/07/expansion-vancouver-or-montreal.html


The annaouncemenst should come today.

Montreal promoted to the MLS

and

Toronto Fc should be derulated to the USL.

What a joke , we took 5 out of a possible 12 points from the USL team.

Thanks Carver - You moron

[Marc"2L"]

mls rumors? did they ever get anything right?

Thats just jumping on the "hate MLS rumors" band wagon. They've gotten plenty right.

[Antoshka]

or a serious inquiry. i would love for you to name a few things they got right because i cant come up with anything :noidea:

[Wooster_TFC]

I say Montreal and Vancouver.

Montreal, with Gillette backing.
Vancouver, with a SSS and Steve Nash backing.

[Hooligan69]

Toronto Fc should be derulated to the USL.


Demoted? Relegated?

[Stugatzo]

Frankly, I hope it's MTL because that would set up a mouth-watering derby.

Spurs/Arsenal, Liverpool/Everton, Wolves/West Brom, Galatasary/Fenerbahce...those are derbies. I get your point, but can a five-hour drive be called a derby?
:noidea:


It would certainly be great and would become a "rivalry".
:canada:

[giambac]

Demoted? Relegated?

whatever it is,

both of them. All I know is that they shouldn't be in the MSl. TFC should be playing the likes of the Toronto Lynx, Toronto Croatia, Toronto Italia etc.

I'm fairly certain these teams would give us a run for our money.

[Boris]

whatever it is,

both of them. All I know is that they shouldn't be in the MSl. TFC should be playing the likes of the Toronto Lynx, Toronto Croatia, Toronto Italia etc.

I'm fairly certain these teams would give us a run for our money.

right....oh logic how it gets lost

[EdTheRed]

mls rumors? did they ever get anything right?

Hah! For the real deal, you have to check out MLS Rumors Rumors (http://mlsrumorsrumors.blogspot.com/). Our insiders' poll (open to the public, natch) shows Throgs Neck, NY as the leading candidate for the next expansion side. If Don Garber's sister's hairdresser's bartender said it, you know it's true. :D

[DOMIN8R]

And there is this...............

According to a Vancouver radio station, Toronto FC may soon be getting some Canadian company in the MLS.
The TEAM 1040 is reporting that MLS Comissioner Don Garber will lift the original ceiling of 18 franchises and announce Thursday a new expansion plan of not less than 20 and up to 24 franchises by 2013-2014.

More here:http://www.tsn.ca/ctvnews/?id=244189 (http://www.tsn.ca/ctvnews/?id=244189)

[flatpicker]

^ wow... 24 teams??!!

if that's the case the Montreal and Vancouver would surely be in there...
I would love to see both of them join!

[Tintin]

Great news if it happens. It can only help soccer in Canada.

[profit89]

And there is this...............

According to a Vancouver radio station, Toronto FC may soon be getting some Canadian company in the MLS.
The TEAM 1040 is reporting that MLS Comissioner Don Garber will lift the original ceiling of 18 franchises and announce Thursday a new expansion plan of not less than 20 and up to 24 franchises by 2013-2014.

More here:http://www.tsn.ca/ctvnews/?id=244189 (http://www.tsn.ca/ctvnews/?id=244189)

24 teams is just stupid. Max 18-20.

Instead they should be looking to implement a deal with USL re promotion/relegation.

[RealG-TFC]

i'll be;eive when I hear it from the commissioner himself

[Vancity RED]

Need MLS in Vancouver to be able to see my Reds more often. I stress the word NEED!!!

[jwfm1985]

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=244189&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_soccer

[OneLoveOneEric]

Sounds a bit silly if 24 teams is the real goal....
The league is fairly strapped for talent as it is. Could you imagine how it will look with a bunch more teams?
the only way this could work is if it's done VERY slowly, and with a HUGE increase in the salary cap (like at least 300%).

[noochie]

Sounds a bit silly if 24 teams is the real goal....
The league is fairly strapped for talent as it is. Could you imagine how it will look with a bunch more teams?
the only way this could work is if it's done VERY slowly, and with a HUGE increase in the salary cap (like at least 300%).

Holy crap... that is crazy expansion... unless they are planning on absorbing mostly-established USL franchises like MTL, VAN, POR etc.

[Alarius]

Holy crap... that is crazy expansion... unless they are planning on absorbing mostly-established USL franchises like MTL, VAN, POR etc.

That should be how its done... to keep the talent pool from thinning out..

[profit89]

That should be how its done... to keep the talent pool from thinning out..

No. The way it should be done is to stop at 18 and implement some sort of promotion/relegation with USL. 24 teams is just stupid.

[noochie]

No. The way it should be done is to stop at 18 and implement some sort of promotion/relegation with USL. 24 teams is just stupid.

Can't be done without absorbing the entire league. There is no over-arching federation covering all teams competing in North America that could mandate this.

[Jack]

Sounds like BS to me.

[Marc"2L"]

Didn't FIFA want a cap of 18 or 20 or something like that?

Not that we would listen anyway....

[Keegan]

Fuck all these American teams entering. They should have relocated KC and Columbus to Portland and Philly instead of whole new teams! Just watering down the league.

I've heard Ottawa and Eugene Melnyk want a team and there was a rumour that a group of Euro investors were going to make one in Edmonton. 5 Canadian MLS teams? Sounds good to me especially since each one of them would outdraw any american team. Better for the league I say.

[Dirk Diggler]

Fuck all these American teams entering. They should have relocated KC and Columbus to Portland and Philly instead of whole new teams! Just watering down the league.

I've heard Ottawa and Eugene Melnyk want a team and there was a rumour that a group of Euro investors were going to make one in Edmonton. 5 Canadian MLS teams? Sounds good to me especially since each one of them would outdraw any american team. Better for the league I say.

Fuck the American teams entering? LOL come on now man. This is an American league after all. And as much as I support Canadian teams, there is no way in hell than there should be more than 3 Canadian teams in the MLS. Edmonton and Ottawa aren't doing it for me, sorry.

[Batman]

Fuck the American teams entering? LOL come on now man. This is an American league after all. And as much as I support Canadian teams, there is no way in hell than there should be more than 3 Canadian teams in the MLS. Edmonton and Ottawa aren't doing it for me, sorry.

Yep. I'm good with three too. I see Ottawa turning into another Columbus.

[RealG-TFC]

I wouldn't mind having TFC, Montreal and vancouver in MLS and then a Canadian league with Edmonton, Ottawa, etc....

[profit89]

Edmonton and Ottawa can join USL

[Keegan]

Fuck the American teams entering? LOL come on now man. This is an American league after all. And as much as I support Canadian teams, there is no way in hell than there should be more than 3 Canadian teams in the MLS. Edmonton and Ottawa aren't doing it for me, sorry.


There are enough American teams and the attendance isn't doing it in certain parts already (KC and Columbus) as well as a little sketchy in basically EVERY other part except for a few including Chicago, DC and LA but even those teams have off days when we played LA in LA there had to be only 8,000 people there. If Edmonton had Beckham I guarantee you 60k+ a game.

[RealG-TFC]

I rather a USL level Canadian league. That won't happen until the CSA changes though. :(

[profit89]

There are enough American teams and the attendance isn't doing it in certain parts already (KC and Columbus) as well as a little sketchy in basically EVERY other part except for a few including Chicago, DC and LA but even those teams have off days when we played LA in LA there had to be only 8,000 people there. If Edmonton had Beckham I guarantee you 60k+ a game.

Yeah, but a Beckham would never move to dead-monton

[kdzb]

Can you imagine if Montreal gets it?
that will be great for us because they will be able to get a big name DP that will not say no to Stade Saputo because we all know that it's not PLASTIC.
This will be a kick in the guts for MLSE and The City of Toronto because they get denied over and over from big players and our team is bleeding for a striker but we can't sign any because of the fucking turf.
I just hope it's Montreal because it will help us a lot by obliging our management to move their asses.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Yep. I'm good with three too. I see Ottawa turning into another Columbus.

Worse even.
Itll never happen i see 3 at most which is fine by me.
Plenty of other american cities that would support a team (St Louis, Portland), no more canadian cities that could.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

LA has always had alot of people at their games preBeckham.

[Jimmy The Saint]

Can you imagine if Montreal gets it?
that will be great for us because they will be able to get a big name DP that will not say no to Stade Saputo because we all know that it's not PLASTIC.
This will be a kick in the guts for MLSE and The City of Toronto because they get denied over and over from big players and our team is bleeding for a striker but we can't sign any because of the fucking turf.
I just hope it's Montreal because it will help us a lot by obliging our management to move their asses.

To top it off, the Impact is owned by Gillette.

Who is an owner of Liverpool. Amongst other sporting clubs.

He's not going to worry about spending money on a DP, or suggesting his Liverpool players come and retire in Montreal.

[Dirk Diggler]

To top it off, the Impact is owned by Gillette.

Who is an owner of Liverpool. Amongst other sporting clubs.

He's not going to worry about spending money on a DP, or suggesting his Liverpool players come and retire in Montreal.

The Impact is owned by Saputo, not Gillette (or George Gillett for that matter).

[trane]

I wouldn't mind having TFC, Montreal and vancouver in MLS and then a Canadian league with Edmonton, Ottawa, etc....

agreed.

[sidvan]

24 teams is just too many. Too many, too fast. This will kill the league.

[TorCanSoc]

I wonder what USL-1 thinks of all of this? I would love to see relagation setup with the USL1. But I don't think that's possible. MLS charges a 10 mill / franchise. TFC, and it looks like San Jose would have been immediately relegated. Not sure how to get around that one.

[TFC07]

24 teams isn't a lot for North America market. I highly doubt FIFA will step in and stop MLS for expanding to 24 teams as long they're making money.

[profit89]

24 is stupid... Answer: stop at 16-18 and develop an MLS-2

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Spurs/Arsenal, Liverpool/Everton, Wolves/West Brom, Galatasary/Fenerbahce...those are derbies. I get your point, but can a five-hour drive be called a derby?
:noidea:



Given the scale of this country, I'd call it a derby. Compared to a supporter taking a bus from Whitehorse to Montreal for a NT game, the trip down the 401 is just a walk in the park.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

24 teams isn't a lot for North America market. I highly doubt FIFA will step in and stop MLS for expanding to 24 teams as long they're making money.

If MLS is motivated, it won't let FIFA get in the way of expansion. MLS already ignores the International Match Calendar; why would it stop there?

Before MLS decides to expand to such a large size, however, I hope it at least evaluates the level of available talent to the league. As it stands now, there aren't enough skilled players in Canada and the U.S. to support a 24-team league, at least at the existing salary cap. In order for MLS to expand to this level, it will have to ease up on the restrictions that it places on teams.

[Sonny Cheeba]

i see Montreal getting the 2010 expansion for sure..... Vancouver is a maybe depending on how fast "Steve Nash Stadium" gets built. or designed at least.

[Mojo]

The market in North America won't support a relegation system.

Could you imagine RBNY or Columbus being relegated? Their draw would go from 0 fans per game to -1000 fans.

[Cashcleaner]

1 - There will never be promotion or relegation in Major League Soccer. Too many reasons to list, but just trust me on this.

2 - I'm pretty sure Montreal is gonna get the nod for expansion over Vancouver. Van City just can't get their act together with the stadium and ownership, while Montreal has almost all of its ducks in a row.

3 - A soccer league with 24 teams seems excessive, especially when you consider how long the season is at the moment with only 14 clubs. MLS should stick to the FIFA guidelines and cap the league at 20 teams.

[Keystone FC]

1 - There will never be promotion or relegation in Major League Soccer. Too many reasons to list, but just trust me on this.

2 - I'm pretty sure Montreal is gonna get the nod for expansion over Vancouver. Van City just can't get their act together with the stadium and ownership, while Montreal has almost all of its ducks in a row.

3 - A soccer league with 24 teams seems excessive, especially when you consider how long the season is at the moment with only 14 clubs. MLS should stick to the FIFA guidelines and cap the league at 20 teams.

2- I don't know. Even though the Impact have their own stadium I'm sure that Garber was looking at Van when it was announced that the Caps would move into BC Place and that they'll redo the roof for the Winter Olympics.

[Cashcleaner]

^ I should point out that I'm not ruling out a Vancouver franchise altogether, it's just that Montreal has a much more unified vision and the resources in place now. One good thing about the prospect of Vancouver coming in next is that it would undoubtedly create too much clamour in Montreal for Saputo to do the same.

[Vindaloo]

-To point out some misconceptions. The ownership in Vancouver, Greg Kerfoot, has always been in place and is not a problem. An addition of Steve Nash to boot.

-The retractable roof on BC Place isn't intended to be finished by the Olympics, but will be by early '11 in time for the MLS season. The rest of the huge refurbishment will be; new seats, corporate boxes, lavatories, concession stands, cosmetics, and the entire exterior will be redesigned.

-The Whitecaps will be moving into BC Place only temporarily until their stadium is built. The stadium owners, Pavco, said they will assist in making the stadium 'soccer' friendly.

-Their waterfront location, which the Caps own and where they want to build the stadium, is tied up with the Port(federal). The Port are being dicks about it and want more money. The City of Vancouver have already approved the stadium.

-The passion for the sport in Vancouver is huge and always has been, and is played year round. The Whitecaps are currently the longest running team in North America, which has got to say something.

BC Place will look like this -
http://www.eintracht.de/media/news/about_eintracht/stadion01.jpg

[Cashcleaner]

Yes, Kerfoot himself is in place; but the question is whether or not the 40 million dollars needed for the franchise fee is.

Also, the proposal of putting the stadium at the waterfront has been completely nixed by the feds. The Whitecaps are now considering a venue outside the Vancouver city core from what I last heard. Can't remember the name of the town, but it doesn't actually sound like a bad concession.

[Rudi]

Steve Nash may or may not have confirmed (or denied) to me tonight that Vancouver will be in MLS.

Rudi: "Steve, so what about Vancouver in MLS?"
Steve Nash: "What about it?"
Rudi: "Oh, so that's how it's going to be, eh?"
Steve Nash: ...
Rudi (realizing that line of the conversation is going nowhere): "Your brother pretty much put us out of the CONCACAF Champions League with one kick."
Steve Nash: "Haha... yeah sorry about that."

[Cashcleaner]

^ Ha! I stand corrected if true.

[Detroit_TFC]

3 - A soccer league with 24 teams seems excessive, especially when you consider how long the season is at the moment with only 14 clubs. MLS should stick to the FIFA guidelines and cap the league at 20 teams.

Even with just home and away, that would be a long-ass season, when you factor in tourneys, international breaks, etc. 48 league games, plus SuperLiga, CCL, USOC/Voy Cup, etc. Even if the length of the season expanded from early March to end of November, those poor bastards would still be playing 3 games a week for weeks on end, not just once in a while.

[profit89]

Garber is not going beyond 18, then his plans will be to develop an MLS-2... then eventually promotion/relegation between MLS-1 and MLS-2.

Blatter has already stated that if a country wants to host a world cup, their domestic league must be developed and that includes a system of relegation. He gave Australia such warning re their bid to host.

[flatpicker]

^ Does Australia have relegation?

[ensco]

Garber is not going beyond 18, then his plans will be to develop an MLS-2... then eventually promotion/relegation between MLS-1 and MLS-2.

Blatter has already stated that if a country wants to host a world cup, their domestic league must be developed and that includes a system of relegation. He gave Australia such warning re their bid to host.

Garber and the USSF aren't going to worry too much about these kind of pronouncements. Blatter spews almost daily. Just this month, he thinks Cristiano Ronaldo is a slave, he wants a 6 of 11 rule for domestic leagues, he wants....blah blah blah

FIFA are an unruly, corrupt bunch - you host a World Cup with (i) great facilities, and (ii) boatloads of "blandishments" for the delegates.

[Razor]

Montreal will be the next Canadian team in the MLS.....yup...you heard it hear first. :D

[DOMIN8R]

Significant decisions regarding MLS expansion with be made today at the MLS Board of Governors (i.e.: the owners and senior execs.) meetings held here in Toronto.

[RealG-TFC]

^ Does Australia have relegation?

no...

[Jack]

Steve Nash was partying it up with the MLS guys yesterday...

[ensco]

Guys let's be realistic here, both Montreal and Vancouver have issues from a US perspective:

(i) their ownership groups look nothing like MLSE in terms of money/influence
(ii) the experience of the Expos and Grizzlies has to be worrying to the league decision-makers
(iii) those cities do nothing for MLS in terms of US TV ratings, which post-beckham is all these guys think about

Of course they'd both be successful, but it's not a given that they're next in line. There are huge US MSAs missing from the MLS roster (eg Miami, Atlanta), plus half of the NY MSA is still 5x the Montreal or Vancouver markets

[Pyeddo]

(i) their ownership groups look nothing like MLSE in terms of money/influence

The Saputo family has been talking to George Gillette, I'm pretty sure if he can handle investing in an storied EPL franchise...

[Canary Canuck]

Even with 24 teams you can schedule home and away within your conference and one game against all opponents from the other conference for a 34 game schedule. Nothing outrageous about that. As for the talent pool, soccer is a worldwide market place and adding teams will not necessarily water down the talent. Raising the cap (which will happen in 09) and allowing a few more imports solves this problem. This is isn't like the NFL where the only place to find players is the States.

[ensco]

The Saputo family has been talking to George Gillette, I'm pretty sure if he can handle investing in an storied EPL franchise...

If Saint George is the controlling shareholder, I withdraw my comment as it relates to Montreal. If it's 50/50 or Joey Saputo is the controlling shareholder, my comment stands.

[Vindaloo]

Yes, Kerfoot himself is in place; but the question is whether or not the 40 million dollars needed for the franchise fee is.

Also, the proposal of putting the stadium at the waterfront has been completely nixed by the feds. The Caps are now considering a venue outside the Vancouver city core from what I last heard. Can't remember the name of the town, but it doesn't actually sound like a bad concession.

The last anyone has heard about affording an expansion fee was a report by the National Post saying both Vancouver and Montreal are assumed to have the money in place. With the stadium being paid for by Kerfoot, I'd see Nash and his investors paying the expansion fee. I guess we'll hear soon but I don't think the fee is the issue at hand.

The Waterfront Stadium hasn't been nixed by the Feds or rather the VF Port Authority. It's in negotiation still. The problem with the Port is it's federal land but doesn't have a government minister and has protection built around their operations to shut out political influence or interference. The issue is, Kerfoot owns rail yard land and they want to swap some of it for some of the Port's land. The value of the swap is the problem and the Port isn't playing nice about it. Senator Larry Campbell and former Mayor of Vancouver has asked to mediate. The City has already approved the stadium.


The Caps have repeatedly said their focus is on having the downtown waterfront location built. Surrey, in Metro Vancouver, has offered them to move out to their city, which has rail access, but no word on that yet. There was mention that the club wants to build a training centre in Surrey though.

[devioustrevor]

Even with 24 teams you can schedule home and away within your conference and one game against all opponents from the other conference for a 34 game schedule. Nothing outrageous about that. As for the talent pool, soccer is a worldwide market place and adding teams will not necessarily water down the talent. Raising the cap (which will happen in 09) and allowing a few more imports solves this problem. This is isn't like the NFL where the only place to find players is the States.

This here pretty much sums up what I was going to write, saves me a few sentences.

[TheRenter]

24 teams is just stupid. Max 18-20.

Instead they should be looking to implement a deal with USL re promotion/relegation.

couldn't agree more with this....20 teams in MLS 1, tops!

[standupforthetfc]

I promise you if montreal gets an MLS team they win the league before we do. With MLSE as your owner you will never win shit. I mean what do gillete or saputo care if they have to drop a couple mill so long as they win. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most of the successful teams in Europe owned by wealthy billionaires who just want to see the team win and don't care about financial returns?