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View Full Version : Montreal has a better organization



trane
07-23-2008, 11:49 AM
I have been thinking about this for some time, but for me last nights game and result confirmed it. While TFC has more money and talent on the field, Montreal has a better organization. They have a developed farm system, which develops players which are able to perform in their first team system. Through the tournament we had the better players, they had the better team. I think that one day, we will get there, but it will take some time, for us to achieve this. I do think the steps that we are taking, for example the Academy will get us there.

trane
07-23-2008, 12:00 PM
^ I will say this too I think that once they are in the MLS they will be succesfull quicher, because of their organization/system.

rocker
07-23-2008, 12:01 PM
yes the mafia always organizes things the best! ;)

trane
07-23-2008, 12:14 PM
^ Well apparently the Mafia know more about putting together a soccer team then the MLSE and a bunch of teachers.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-23-2008, 12:17 PM
Hmmm…based on them winning last night?

Outside of winning this tournament Montreal are a point away from the basement in the USL…they've played poorly all season…worst in the league in goals for…tied for worst home record.

I will not take anything away from their performance in the CL but that's all their going to win this year…

Chewy Unikronik
07-23-2008, 12:18 PM
We suck. Can't really say anything else. We just suck.

CretanBull
07-23-2008, 12:19 PM
Montreal is owned by an Italian family who, while I'm sure they want to make money, have viewed the Impact as a labour of love. We're owned by a sports conglomerate who, while I'm sure they would like to win, have viewed TFC as a money making venture.

RealG-TFC
07-23-2008, 12:19 PM
Well of course they do! They have fucken 14 years on us!

Blazer
07-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Hmmm…based on them winning last night?

Outside of winning this tournament Montreal are a point away from the basement in the USL…they've played poorly all season…worst in the league in goals for…tied for worst home record.

I will not take anything away from their performance in the CL but that's all their going to win this year…

^ Which is grossly embarrassing I’d say. Not so sure that we have a more talented squad either. Vancouver and Montreal showed us that our loyalty to this team may run thicker than the assembled “talent” we think we possess?!

Sonny Cheeba
07-23-2008, 12:22 PM
i think we need to get rid of the the draft. it's horseshit.

trane
07-23-2008, 12:35 PM
^ Yeah, I am not a fan of the draft, you need to be able to develop players from youth levels. Draft do not work for soccer, like much else in the MLS.

Toronto Bhoy, I do not base it only on last nights game, but on their history and achievment.

Kickit09
07-23-2008, 12:52 PM
really? cuz they didnt beat us once. we have the better head to head record. only reason they are going through is because they beat vancouver and we couldn't. and vancouver is better than montreal, Limpact just got lucky this time.

Dirk Diggler
07-23-2008, 01:06 PM
I have been thinking about this for some time, but for me last nights game and result confirmed it. While TFC has more money and talent on the field, Montreal has a better organization. They have a developed farm system, which develops players which are able to perform in their first team system. Through the tournament we had the better players, they had the better team. I think that one day, we will get there, but it will take some time, for us to achieve this. I do think the steps that we are taking, for example the Academy will get us there.

I agree, although TFC is still only in its second year of existence.

giambac
07-23-2008, 01:24 PM
I have been thinking about this for some time, but for me last nights game and result confirmed it. While TFC has more money and talent on the field, Montreal has a better organization. They have a developed farm system, which develops players which are able to perform in their first team system. Through the tournament we had the better players, they had the better team. I think that one day, we will get there, but it will take some time, for us to achieve this. I do think the steps that we are taking, for example the Academy will get us there.

trane let me summarize it for you.

Montreal is 2nd last in their league.

Montreal is 9th out of 10 teams
Montreal started the season very poor.

What did they do????? They fired their coach. They have now improved and are the CC champions.

TFC has not won in 9 games. I've been saying it for almost 2 months get Carver out of here. It's time to fire him.

England didn't qualify for the 2008 Euro's - they fired their coach
Italy made an early exit in the 2008 Euro's (Quarterfinals) - they fired their coach

TFC hasn't won in 9 games. They can't beat expansionn teams, they can't beat USL teams, what are they waiting for ??????? We've already lost the CC, and if they don't act soon there will be no playoffs this year.

Blazer
07-23-2008, 01:58 PM
trane let me summarize it for you.

Montreal is 2nd last in their league.

Montreal is 9th out of 10 teams
Montreal started the season very poor.

What did they do????? They fired their coach. They have now improved and are the CC champions.

TFC has not won in 9 games. I've been saying it for almost 2 months get Carver out of here. It's time to fire him.

England didn't qualify for the 2008 Euro's - they fired their coach
Italy made an early exit in the 2008 Euro's (Quarterfinals) - they fired their coach

TFC hasn't won in 9 games. They can't beat expansionn teams, they can't beat USL teams, what are they waiting for ??????? We've already lost the CC, and if they don't act soon there will be no playoffs this year.

You’re such a North American sports watching think-tank. ~Jab-jab~ This team lacks talent. Carver can’t magically score goals from the sideline. Getting talent and guys believing that Toronto is a great city to come and play footy takes a few years of development. Second year teams cannot realistically expect much more than middle of the table results. This team is only half as good as we want them to be but give it time.

trane
07-23-2008, 02:06 PM
^ For long term success it will take more then just attracting some players to come to play here. That is a start, but we need to start developong our players, and have a set way of playing for which players can be groomed for. We need stability and time to develop into a top flight organization.

giambac
07-23-2008, 02:14 PM
You’re such a North American sports watching think-tank. ~Jab-jab~ This team lacks talent. Carver can’t magically score goals from the sideline. Getting talent and guys believing that Toronto is a great city to come and play footy takes a few years of development. Second year teams cannot realistically expect much more than middle of the table results. This team is only half as good as we want them to be but give it time.


Montreal doesn't have talent
Montreal didn't have the home crowd.

WE tied an expansion team (SJ) at home and the 2nd worse team in the uSL at home.


You don't need talent to beat these teams especially in front of 20k hardcore passionate home fans.

We wern't playing ManU or Ac Milan etc.

We were playing 2 Mickey Mouse teams.

You can't win when your players don't play with heart, conviction and emotion. They don't play with it because their coach doesn't have it.

RealG-TFC
07-23-2008, 02:16 PM
Montreal don't have talent? I disagree.

trane
07-23-2008, 02:20 PM
^ They clearly have talent and better then that, talent that fits the way they play.

jloome
07-23-2008, 02:32 PM
^ They clearly have talent and better then that, talent that fits the way they play.

Actually, you're both insane. They suck, and wouldn't be in the top half of the MLS table. We beat them once and they were exceptionally fortunate to get a draw in the second. We just sucked worse.

trane
07-23-2008, 03:12 PM
Yes, you are the authority of the subject and we are insane. They won the competiton on luck alone, and none of their players have any tallent. We are way better then them in every way, it just that the stars/gods were not or out side.

We could not use, Roberto Brown as a depth striker, or some of their defenders and mids for depth. They suck. We are great. It is Liberal/Conservative conspiracy to keep Quebec in Canada.

Tintin
07-23-2008, 03:16 PM
Actually, you're both insane. They suck, and wouldn't be in the top half of the MLS table. We beat them once and they were exceptionally fortunate to get a draw in the second. We just sucked worse.


Actually we wer fortunate to win the game in Montreal. They dominated the firts half...

trane
07-23-2008, 03:19 PM
^ Very true.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-23-2008, 03:21 PM
Toronto Bhoy, I do not base it only on last nights game, but on their history and achievment.

We are a season and a half into our history so I'm assuming your talking about The Impact.

The fact that they built their own park is very impressive [regardless of where the money came from].

trane
07-23-2008, 03:30 PM
^ I said "their history" to make it clear that I was not talking about "our history" TFC. I have do ask where to you believe that the money came from?

Captain Croatia
07-23-2008, 03:33 PM
It's because they are not owned by the MLSE

Toronto_Bhoy
07-23-2008, 03:49 PM
^ I said "their history" to make it clear that I was not talking about "our history" TFC. I have do ask where to you believe that the money came from?

You made reference to the Mafia in an earlier post. I know nothing other than Wiki information about their ownership…I wasn't sure if you were joking? Regardless, building your own park is impressive!



Well apparently the Mafia know more about putting together a soccer team then the MLSE and a bunch of teachers.

Smenge
07-23-2008, 03:53 PM
Montreal is lucky TFC gave away the lead against Vancouver. There isn't a player on the Impact that Carver would want as a starter with TFC. And, does anybody think Montreal would do better against the top mls teams? Not likely. They are a middle of the road usl team, and that is all. TFC took 4 out of 6 points from them, playing with no striker. In two or three years, the impact will be nothing more than a farm team for TFC.

trane
07-23-2008, 03:54 PM
^TorontoBhoy- I was just responding to the earlier post. I was being a smart ass. Saputo is a billionaire, I wish Stavros was around, he liked soccer, in fact he had a team Toronto City, which played in the summer and was apparenlty moslty Hibbernia players.

Batman
07-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Saputo not in mafia.

He says so, so it must be true!

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/285131

sweetlemon69
07-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Stupid post. so we do. U-x teams? academy? They've just been around longer and can pick from that ,as were we have to wait half a decade...

trane
07-23-2008, 04:00 PM
Saputo not in mafia.

He says so, so it must be true!

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/285131



Being rich an Italian, does not automatically make you part of the Mafia. Allegations are just that allegations. Hey he might have connections with the mafia, but there is no reason to believe this.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-23-2008, 04:05 PM
Like I said, I didn't know if it was a joke…hence the reason I said "regardless where". However, after reading Batman's post I understand where/why it may have come up before.

You do bring up an interesting point, which is another thread for an other time…

Sugar Daddy vs Corporate Ownership?

Ha! Ha! I see us agreeing to disagree on that one too, Trane!

trane
07-23-2008, 04:07 PM
^ realy you agree with corporate ownership. I would if it was in Europe in North America I am not sure. The relegation system is great insentive however, is the owner in Europe.

Batman
07-23-2008, 04:16 PM
Being rich an Italian, does not automatically make you part of the Mafia. Allegations are just that allegations. Hey he might have connections with the mafia, but there is no reason to believe this.

I agree.

It's the Italians investigating him though. Maybe they're just following racial stereotypes too.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-23-2008, 04:20 PM
Yeah, I was talking European.

We, Celtic are owned by a PLC [limited company] although there is a majority shareholder who is Celtic daft, which makes things even better…some passion in the boardroom!

And your bang on about relegation…makes every decision both a football and business decision.

trane
07-23-2008, 04:32 PM
I agree.

It's the Italians investigating him though. Maybe they're just following racial stereotypes too.


As someone who grew up in Italy, I will tell you that it is not to hard to be accused of having mafia conectiosn, particullary if you are a rich scilian. But having dealings with Mafia business and being a mafioso are not the same thing.

trane
07-23-2008, 04:36 PM
Yeah, I was talking European.

We, Celtic are owned by a PLC [limited company] although there is a majority shareholder who is Celtic daft, which makes things even better…some passion in the boardroom!

And your bang on about relegation…makes every decision both a football and business decision.


Perfect way to put it.

JonO
07-23-2008, 05:02 PM
Is it me or did no one "deserve" to win that tournament. We couldn't beat Vancouver, Vancouver couldn't beat Montreal and Montreal couln't beat us... Bah - although there were some areas where Montreal outplayed us (they were much better at taken advantage of their opportunities) I think overall we were the better team. Doesn't mean anything at the end thoug, given the result...

trane
07-23-2008, 05:17 PM
^ I think that it is a fair comment. I just think that for the league they are in Montreal has a good orgnization. We are the better team in many ways, but in the end they got the result we needed.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-23-2008, 05:36 PM
I thought Montreal played very well away from home in this tournament…something we can't seem to do anywhere…

trane
07-23-2008, 05:42 PM
^ I thought that we would get better at that with Carver. But so far that has not been. I did not see the entire Chicago game, did he actually play a 3-5-2?

Roogsy
07-23-2008, 05:54 PM
Well of course they do! They have fucken 14 years on us!

I am surprised people don't clue into this.

For real guys. :rolleyes:

trane
07-23-2008, 06:00 PM
^Yes, of course, but the point is that they have done it right, and you see the results on the field, and I think that they will do well on the field once, and if , they enter the MLS.

Cashcleaner
07-24-2008, 12:57 AM
I have been thinking about this for some time, but for me last nights game and result confirmed it. While TFC has more money and talent on the field, Montreal has a better organization. They have a developed farm system, which develops players which are able to perform in their first team system. Through the tournament we had the better players, they had the better team. I think that one day, we will get there, but it will take some time, for us to achieve this. I do think the steps that we are taking, for example the Academy will get us there.

Agreed to everything you've said. MLSE has the money - there is no doubt about it. People can't really accuse them of being cheap because they consistently buy up to the salary cap for all their teams that have them. We do have some cap space left for Toronto, but for the most part, they've spent most of the money allowed.

The problem is that they are idiots.

Idiots with credit cards.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how much you are spending on talent and support staff, if you are buying the wrong things or signing the wrong people, its all money gone to waste. There's no other way to say it, but our owners don't know what to do with their money.

I mean it's MLSE for the love of all things! They have the money. Sometimes it must feel painful for them to part with it, but there is absolutely no excuse why we don't have a team that is #1 in the country.

Keystone FC
07-24-2008, 01:27 AM
I am surprised people don't clue into this.

For real guys. :rolleyes:

I was thinking about this a few hours after crying in my pillow for most of the night. Everyone (including myself) thought that TFC would be automatic for the CL it just depended on how many games they would win, tie, lose. The Impact, along with the Caps, have ben in existance is some form or another for well over a decade. This means a solid ownership organization and continued support from the community. Both the impact and Caps have won USL (or A-League) championships so they know how to win. Not to mention that the Caps have done a very good job at taking it to other MLS squads in friendlies. The Impact (as low as they are this season) are usually right up there at the top of the USL.
We, on the other hand, have only played 1 1/2 seasons and have a new coach this year. You can also throw in the fact that we weren't at full strength for almost the entire season last year.
These are not excuses but just ways of looking at the situation before you slit your wrist over this.
Are we the best club in Canada? No...not this year, but I bet you come this time next season there will be TFC players who will remind others of the Impact lifting the trophy at BMO and that this will not happen again.
It kind of makes me feel a bit sorry for the rest of the MLS when Vancouver and Montreal come into the league. I really think there will be an all Canadian MLS Cup in the future.

Look at it this way the Red Bulls (who are shite) lost to Crystal Palace Baltimore (USL 2) in the US Open Cup.

Cashcleaner
07-24-2008, 03:28 AM
^ That last part doesn't make me feel any better, Keystone. :D

Tintin
07-24-2008, 07:49 AM
The thing with the Impact is that it is a more grounded, established and rooted organasition. They have a stong recruiting team and a farm team (Trois Rivieres Attack). It has a more European management approach.

TFC is new and has a more North American approach wich means that they think that money solves evrything. We will just buy players and put a tema together who will win. Does not always work....

trane
07-24-2008, 10:06 AM
Chashcleaner, Kingston and Tintin, great points. You are echoing my thoughts on it. Tintin, that is just it, it takes more then money.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-24-2008, 10:48 AM
Agreed to everything you've said. MLSE has the money - there is no doubt about it. People can't really accuse them of being cheap because they consistently buy up to the salary cap for all their teams that have them. We do have some cap space left for Toronto, but for the most part, they've spent most of the money allowed.

The problem is that they are idiots.

Idiots with credit cards.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how much you are spending on talent and support staff, if you are buying the wrong things or signing the wrong people, its all money gone to waste. There's no other way to say it, but our owners don't know what to do with their money.

I mean it's MLSE for the love of all things! They have the money. Sometimes it must feel painful for them to part with it, but there is absolutely no excuse why we don't have a team that is #1 in the country.

TFC consists of two elements in the MLSE organization…the business and the football.

Tom Anselmi and Paul Bierne run the business and Mo and Carver run the football side. At this point I have a hard time blaming the business side of the operation UNLESS you have a problem with their commitment to Mo. As stated above I believe MLSE have provided the money…so are Johnston, his contacts and scouts the idiots?

IMO, TFC's business element has provided the support and funds…have the football guys spent it wisely?

Cash…maybe it should be…"idiots who let other guys use their credit cards"?

boban
07-24-2008, 01:30 PM
Montreal is owned by an Italian family who, while I'm sure they want to make money, have viewed the Impact as a labour of love. We're owned by a sports conglomerate who, while I'm sure they would like to win, have viewed TFC as a money making venture.
One of the most straightforward and truthful post on this board that has been written on this board.
You can't hit the nail on the head any more clearly than you just did.

:hurray: :hurray:

Cashcleaner
07-24-2008, 01:53 PM
TFC consists of two elements in the MLSE organization…the business and the football.

Tom Anselmi and Paul Bierne run the business and Mo and Carver run the football side. At this point I have a hard time blaming the business side of the operation UNLESS you have a problem with their commitment to Mo. As stated above I believe MLSE have provided the money…so are Johnston, his contacts and scouts the idiots?

IMO, TFC's business element has provided the support and funds…have the football guys spent it wisely?

Cash…maybe it should be…"idiots who let other guys use their credit cards"?

Ha! Perhaps that might be it, but we should remember that TFC still answers to a higher authority of the parent company, and that parent company makes the more important decisions.

But you could be right as well with youir analogy.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-24-2008, 04:24 PM
^^Let's meet halfway…how's this?

"idiots who let other idiots use their credit cards"

profit89
07-24-2008, 04:27 PM
tfc is the best organization in north american soccer right now (excluding mexican teams)

Sonny Cheeba
07-24-2008, 04:36 PM
Crystal Palace Baltimore,.... i hope that was started by a south london supporters group.

why do we have to try to sound like european teams over here? yeah i know the majority don't but there is that element.