New NASL team in GTA?

[Ruffian]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/527856135768784896/wc7DG4p5_bigger.pngDuane Rollins‏@24thminute (https://twitter.com/24thminute)

Working on something related to potential @naslofficial (https://twitter.com/naslofficial) team in GTA. Have solid lead on who main backer is. Interest is legit. $ is there.

[OgtheDim]

Definition of GTA? Cause the Ti-Cats have been looking into NASL for awhile.

[Areathrasher]

He said in a later tweet that it is a different group to Hamilton.

[C.Ronaldo]

sweet! with Raul coming into that league, this could be interesting

[Yagbod]

Unless I am confusing the NASL with something else, isn't it MLSE he is referring to? Bez told us that at a supporters meeting a few months ago and I think he said it at one of the year end pressers.

[Areathrasher]

Unless I am confusing the NASL with something else, isn't it MLSE he is referring to? Bez told us that at a supporters meeting a few months ago and I think he said it at one of the year end pressers.

You're thinking of the USL Pro team.

[TFC07]

He said in a later tweet that it is a different group to Hamilton.

That sucks!

GTA is big enough to support NASL, MLS and USL-Pro.

[Areathrasher]

That sucks!

GTA is big enough to support NASL, MLS and USL-Pro.

By all accounts Hamilton is still in play for NASL. So it would be Toronto and Hamilton in NASL.

[TFC07]

By all accounts Hamilton is still in play for NASL. So it would be Toronto and Hamilton in NASL.

Where will this Toronto NASL team play? Share BMO field with TFC (similar to Chivas-LAG?)? If so, then it wouldn't workout. Toronto NASL either have to play in uptown Toronto (York University) or somewhere 905 region.

[Areathrasher]

Where will this Toronto NASL team play? Share BMO field with TFC (similar to Chivas-LAG?)? If so, then it wouldn't workout. Toronto NASL either have to play in uptown Toronto (York University) or somewhere 905 region.

Too early to say.

[Initial B]

I can't see an NASL team playing anywhere else except Hamilton. I'd consider London or Kitchener-Waterloo, but I don't think they're considered GTA. The only other place I could think of would be Vaughan (they always seem to have a soccer chip on their shoulder). Still, if there is a GTA and Hamilton team in play, that could be very interesting from a rivalry view. However, I wonder if there is enough interest to support both.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I don't see it.

NASL in Hamilton, sure.

USL in the GTA, sure.

[TFC07]

I don't see it.

NASL in Hamilton, sure.

USL in the GTA, sure.

Why not?

Hamilton is small town and if it was part of GTA, they will be 4th biggest city. I can see Toronto NASL working out if they play somewhere in 905 region (Mississauga probably logical place) or York University area.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

im all for it. It would force TFC to compete in the league and to compete for an audience. Ill support TFC til the day i die but i love the idea of them being under pressure.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Its been long suggested that the Hamilton team would play inthe Ti-Cats stadium

[ironcub14]

I've heard lots this year about NASL to Hamilton, Calgary and other CFL cities, but this is the very first time we're hearing something semi-official about Toronto, I'm pretty surprised.

I'd personally rather see NASL to Hamilton and Calgary, and see the TFC USL Pro affiliate worked out instead asap. I think we could use a full proper U-23 USL Pro affiliate to really properly develop our L1O academy graduates, instead of sending just 4 players over to Wilmington.

[TFC07]

I've heard lots this year about NASL to Hamilton, Calgary and other CFL cities, but this is the very first time we're hearing something semi-official about Toronto, I'm pretty surprised.

I'd personally rather see NASL to Hamilton and Calgary, and see the TFC USL Pro affiliate worked out instead asap. I think we could use a full proper U-23 USL Pro affiliate to really properly develop our L1O academy graduates, instead of sending just 4 players over to Wilmington.


Why? GTA is big enough to support all 3 teams.

You already a got club in downtown Toronto and TFC's Under 23 team in Vaughan where it will be free to go watch their games.

So why reject higher quality team than USL-Pro coming to Toronto especially if they're playing somewhere in 905 region?

[ironcub14]

The only city that currently has both a MLS and a NASL club is NYC, and the Cosmos are struggling to get a proper stadium while playing in Long Island right now at Hofstra University. Their attendance has been declining badly this year compared to 2013, and their stadium proposal plans seem to be struggling (I'm following the Cosmos stadium issue casually as an Ottawa supporter). NYCFC isn't going to help.

The Atlanta Silverbacks decided this month that they will not try to compete with the incoming Atlanta MLS side and are looking for a relocation. All these are just observations to keep in mind, I understand there are many differences between the clubs and the cities of NYC, Toronto and Atlanta :)

[TFC07]

The only city that currently has both a MLS and a NASL club is NYC, and the Cosmos are struggling to get a proper stadium while playing in Long Island right now at Hofstra University. Their attendance has been declining badly this year compared to 2013, and their stadium proposal plans seem to be struggling (I'm following the Cosmos stadium issue casually as an Ottawa supporter). NYCFC isn't going to help.

The Atlanta Silverbacks decided this month that they will not try to compete with the incoming Atlanta MLS side and are looking for a relocation. All these are just observations to keep in mind, I understand there are many differences between the clubs and the cities of NYC, Toronto and Atlanta :)

Well Toronto is completely different market compare to those two markets.

Toronto already has numbers and interest for soccer from grassroot to make it work out. Given there's a lot of anti-TFC soccer folks in city, Toronto NASL could attract those folks to support their club to make it anti-TFC/anti-MLSE team.

[ironcub14]

I'm not rejecting anything, but I think the GTA needs a TFC-affiliated USL Pro side more than it needs a NASL side, because the TFC U-20 players in L1O need further development, and a TFC U-23 team in USL Pro would provide just that.

A NASL club in GTA would be competition to the TFC, and sure, it might be cool, but I think it would be better in the grand scheme of things to see the CFL group in Hamilton get the NASL club instead. The CFL ownership groups are trying to grow footy and NASL in Canada in cities like Calgary and Victoria, and in the bigger scheme of things, I think that would do more for footy in Canada than a NASL side in GTA competing against TFC would.

[TFC07]

I'm not rejecting anything, but I think the GTA needs a TFC-affiliated USL Pro side more than it needs a NASL side, because the TFC U-20 players in L1O need further development, and a TFC U-23 team in USL Pro would provide just that.

I disagree. NASL is much higher quality than USL-Pro everyone from soccer community (players to fans) should support and want best possible league in their city. Having TFC USL-Pro playing in soccer centre isn't going to have that big of impact on soccer landscape in GTA compare to NASL team where it will be run by different group that can rival TFC from first team (for domestic players) to academy. It will give more options for local players to play and develop at higher level than USL-Pro.


A NASL club in GTA would be competition to the TFC, and sure, it might be cool, but I think it would be better in the grand scheme of things to see the CFL group in Hamilton get the NASL club instead. The CFL ownership groups are trying to grow footy and NASL in Canada in cities like Calgary and Victoria, and in the bigger scheme of things, I think that would do more for footy in Canada than a NASL side in GTA competing against TFC would.

Given Argos looking for new home, maybe they will build a stadium with Toronto NASL team instead of joining BMO field. If so, it makes even more sense to this rumour.

Hamilton will have their own team regardless if Toronto/GTA gets one or not. This NASL Canadian thing is started by Hamilton owner with help of CSA who want to create all Canadian league in the long term. There's no way you have a Canadian league without Toronto team.

[OgtheDim]

Maybe they will build a 20K stadium and share it with the Argos.....

[Beach_Red]

Maybe they will build a 20K stadium and share it with the Argos.....

What about Varsity?

[Initial B]

The Atlanta Silverbacks decided this month that they will not try to compete with the incoming Atlanta MLS side and are looking for a relocation. All these are just observations to keep in mind, I understand there are many differences between the clubs and the cities of NYC, Toronto and Atlanta :)
That does not bode well for NASL, if that is the case. It's only a matter of time before MLS poaches Minnesota, San Antonio, and Indianapolis to cut NASL's profitablility to zero. Just look at how the Silverbacks collapsed at the end of the season. They must know their days are numbered.

If NASL tries to build a team in the Toronto Area, you can bet that MLS will do all it can kill it.

[tovan]

It might be a play by prospective Argos owners to obtain a NASL franchise as leverage for the construction of a new stadium somewhere in 905 or elsewhere outside of downtown. I think Woodbine racecourse lands would be a prime location for redevelopment including stadium, hotel, retail, residential + the existing racecourse. It could be done loosely following the Ottawa model of CFL/NASL ownership. That said, maybe Woodbine Entertainment is interested? The racing industry is tanking in Canada. They might be looking to diversify their holdings.

There's this connection too: http://cfl.ca/article/jim-lawson-appointed-chair-of-the-board-of-governors

[ironcub14]

I disagree. NASL is much higher quality than USL-Pro everyone from soccer community (players to fans) should support and want best possible league in their city. Having TFC USL-Pro playing in soccer centre isn't going to have that big of impact on soccer landscape in GTA compare to NASL team where it will be run by different group that can rival TFC from first team (for domestic players) to academy. It will give more options for local players to play and develop at higher level than USL-Pro.



Given Argos looking for new home, maybe they will build a stadium with Toronto NASL team instead of joining BMO field. If so, it makes even more sense to this rumour.

Hamilton will have their own team regardless if Toronto/GTA gets one or not. This NASL Canadian thing is started by Hamilton owner with help of CSA who want to create all Canadian league in the long term. There's no way you have a Canadian league without Toronto team.

We are getting into finer and finer details, and I think we could go on this thread all day, but I gotta get back to work. You got good points for sure, but I said above that supporting both MLS and NASL in one CMA (or two MLS sides in one CMA) is a really tough ask. Hey, if it happens, I'll be there to support, I'm not rejecting anything.

I think that the GTA needs a USL Pro side that's fully stocked with TFC L1O graduates more than a competing NASL side. I think it's important that the kids in the GTA have a good straight path towards MLS, and right now, I think there's a bit of a gap between L1O and MLS that is missing. I'm assuming that TFC will get a USL Pro side soon. If the GTA has MLS, USL Pro and USL PDL, could it really support NASL on top of that? I know you will say yes, but I would say no, for now.

And the CFL-NASL-CSA thing, it was supposed to be for a Canadian division within NASL, and it was going to exclude Tor/Mtl/Van anyways. I think it'd be risky for the NASL to put a club in both Hamilton and in Toronto/Ssauga. My last reply for the day, cheers.

[TFC07]

We are getting into finer and finer details, and I think we could go on this thread all day, but I gotta get back to work. You got good points for sure, but I said above that supporting both MLS and NASL in one CMA (or two MLS sides in one CMA) is a really tough ask. Hey, if it happens, I'll be there to support, I'm not rejecting anything.

I think that the GTA needs a USL Pro side that's fully stocked with TFC L1O graduates more than a competing NASL side. I think it's important that the kids in the GTA have a good straight path towards MLS, and right now, I think there's a bit of a gap between L1O and MLS that is missing. I'm assuming that TFC will get a USL Pro side soon. If the GTA has MLS, USL Pro and USL PDL, could it really support NASL on top of that? I know you will say yes, but I would say no, for now.

And the CFL-NASL-CSA thing, it was supposed to be for a Canadian division within NASL, and it was going to exclude Tor/Mtl/Van anyways. I think it'd be risky for the NASL to put a club in both Hamilton and in Toronto/Ssauga. My last reply for the day, cheers.

What you're saying only benefits TFC and MLS not Canadian soccer community in general. Putting all your eggs in one basket (TFC) for youth development in Toronto is more risky than having two pro teams fighting for best players in region. Having two professional academies where kids can graduate to play for first team is better than one.

TFC USL-Pro team isn't in for profit (tickets are free for their games), but just strictly for developing some of their players (not just some academy players but also their draft picks who are mostly American players). How's that better than having another pro team where their main purpose is to develop players for Canadian national team (that's what on-field goal is according to Hamilton Ti-cats owner)?

[TFC_Allez]

If Mississauga were to be home to an NASL team...I'd be all over that. But it would have to be called Mississauga and not Toronto.

[OgtheDim]

What about Varsity?

The neighbourhood would have a bird.

[ironcub14]

What you're saying only benefits TFC and MLS not Canadian soccer community in general. Putting all your eggs in one basket (TFC) for youth development in Toronto is more risky than having two pro teams fighting for best players in region. Having two professional academies where kids can graduate to play for first team is better than one.

TFC USL-Pro team isn't in for profit (tickets are free for their games), but just strictly for developing some of their players (not just some academy players but also their draft picks who are mostly American players). How's that better than having another pro team where their main purpose is to develop players for Canadian national team (that's what on-field goal is according to Hamilton Ti-cats owner)?

Haha, alright, if we footy fans can get a TFC USL Pro side, and a GTA NASL side, and a Hamilton NASL side, and NASL sides in other mid-sized Cdn cities, and if they can all survive (and not forgetting about L1O), then sure, why the hell not? It's a big ask, but if it can be done, sure! I'll do my part, and I know you will as well. My really big point is that we need that USL Pro side more than the NASL side, that's it.

[ironcub14]

One more quick point about NASL, it seems that the best NASL players are those who played in the MLS, or are about to get plucked away by MLS sides during the off-season (Mark Bloom, Miguel Ibarra, Christian Ramirez, etc). If a GTA NASL side did exist, I think the supporters of the side would have to be ready for the fact that the best Toronto natives in the NASL side would have a high likelihood to be plucked away by TFC after a good season. I think people would be fine with it initially, but as time goes on, it will become a bigger and bigger issue.

[Shway]

Could it be the return of Toronto's only professional football team to win a championship? Could is be the return of the Toronto Blizzards

[TFC_Allez]

Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...:hide:

[TOBOR !]

That sucks!

GTA is big enough to support NASL, MLS and USL-Pro.

Not if they all play to TFC's standards, it's not.

[flamehawk]

If they locate themselves in North York ... maybe even have their name as North York, I'd get season tickets right away.

[ensco]

Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...:hide:

+1

Bring back the Blizzard! (both the team, and the guy who used that handle here in the early years of this board)

[kodiakTFC]

If Mississauga were to be home to an NASL team...I'd be all over that. But it would have to be called Mississauga and not Toronto.

GTA United ;)

[kodiakTFC]

Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...:hide:

I don't get the affinity for the name. TFC is about to go into its 9th season, the Blizzard name only existed for 6. We already have more history than the Blizzard ever did. It wasn't even the name of the team who won the Soccer Bowl, that was the Metros-Croatia.

There was a Blizzard in the CSL for 7 years as well but that was pretty league as far as I know.

[jloome]

The only city that currently has both a MLS and a NASL club is NYC, and the Cosmos are struggling to get a proper stadium while playing in Long Island right now at Hofstra University. Their attendance has been declining badly this year compared to 2013, and their stadium proposal plans seem to be struggling (I'm following the Cosmos stadium issue casually as an Ottawa supporter). NYCFC isn't going to help.

The Atlanta Silverbacks decided this month that they will not try to compete with the incoming Atlanta MLS side and are looking for a relocation. All these are just observations to keep in mind, I understand there are many differences between the clubs and the cities of NYC, Toronto and Atlanta :)

I've said it before and will say it again: I've had some insight into NASL from people who've been involved since day one, and its prospects aren't good in its present form. Its stated objective of competing with MLS will never happen.

[Super]

GTA United ;)

That would definitely work for me!

[Greatest Ripoff]

Could it be the return of Toronto's only professional football team to win a championship? Could is be the return of the Toronto Blizzards

Do you mean Toronto Metros Croatia?

And let's not forget about Toronto City who also won a championship in the 60's. It is incredible to think Toronto had a football team coached by Malcolm Alison which featured Johnny Haynes and Sir Stanley Matthews to name a few.

I've day dreamed many times about winning the lottery and starting an NASL side called Toronto City.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wow. Lots of points made in this thread. Lots of goodwill towards the game and the growth of it in the area but:

Varsity does not want to deal with any professional clubs. The negotiation that fell through with the Argos plus the Varsity Blues almost closing shop cemented Varsity as Uni focused.

jloome is worth repeating in that NASL, while a great level of footy, is not doing that well as a league and is working less closely with MLS. Apart from the Canadian championship and the odd deal between Canadian clubs USL is the partnership that MLS wants to be the top of the pyramid of.

NASL would be great for Hamilton and the league would be a natural partner of the CFL being the tier 2 that doesn't have a direct link to the top tier. I'd love to see an NASL team in the GTA for the Argos problem to go away but there is no way there is that many anti-TFC fans of the game THAT WOULD BECOME STH. NASL is a gate driven league that cannot compete realistically in a city like Toronto. This city, this area, watches the best and no less.

Will people go watch NASL Toronto? Yes. More than the Lynx but not so many to justify a franchise.

And lastly- To the question of why would we want a USL team in Toronto more than an NASL team is pretty much in the site header- A true TFC farm team does more for us now than the competition of NASL for players.

I like the ambition of the question but it's a little early yet. I can't wait to see how it pans out though. I'd love to see it all happen even if I don't see it being successful for NASL it solves both our Argos problem and our problem with getting enough playing time for our youth in the USL.

I would gladly wait until 2 NASL teams came to the GTA, Hamilton to start their CFL-like rivaly and see the USL team play out of BMO.

[Initial B]

I've said it before and will say it again: I've had some insight into NASL from people who've been involved since day one, and its prospects aren't good in its present form. Its stated objective of competing with MLS will never happen.
Agreed. I think Soccer in North America is being set up as with the other sports - One Major League with affiliated Minor League farm teams. Honestly, the MLB model isn't a bad one to follow, with USL Pro being MLS' AA-equivalent. The problem is that the equivalent AAA teams (NASL) don't want to accept their position on the hierarchy. The only way I think they will survive is to build a CFL-equivalent in Canada and build that base while fighting with MLS for market share down in the US. Once MLS has reached 32 teams, only then will NASL be able to take stock and decide where best to deploy survivable franchises.

Jloome, you mentioned how you have insights into NASL - how much is egos at work rather than a desire to build the North American Soccer Pyramid?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Agreed. I think Soccer in North America is being set up as with the other sports - One Major League with affiliated Minor League farm teams. Honestly, the MLB model isn't a bad one to follow, with USL Pro being MLS' AA-equivalent. The problem is that the equivalent AAA teams (NASL) don't want to accept their position on the hierarchy. The only way I think they will survive is to build a CFL-equivalent in Canada and build that base while fighting with MLS for market share down in the US. Once MLS has reached 32 teams, only then will NASL be able to take stock and decide where best to deploy survivable franchises.

Jloome, you mentioned how you have insights into NASL - how much is egos at work rather than a desire to build the North American Soccer Pyramid?

I'm sure jloome has more insight on this than I but we can start with the fact that NASL are teams that CEDED from the USL. That doesn't build bridges from either side. NASL forming closer relationships with USL and vice versa is very much about egos.

NASL had some of the most successful teams but as a league they are all they have vs the USL structure that has more structure, levels, partnerships and experience as a whole.

I hope they come to terms but it's more likely the NASL Canadian teams find more stability in a CFL partnership.

jloome?

[zeelaw]

One more quick point about NASL, it seems that the best NASL players are those who played in the MLS, or are about to get plucked away by MLS sides during the off-season (Mark Bloom, Miguel Ibarra, Christian Ramirez, etc). If a GTA NASL side did exist, I think the supporters of the side would have to be ready for the fact that the best Toronto natives in the NASL side would have a high likelihood to be plucked away by TFC after a good season. I think people would be fine with it initially, but as time goes on, it will become a bigger and bigger issue.
So? It's been like that for over a 100 years in England?

[TFC_Allez]

I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority but I'm of the belief that TFC should've been called the Blizzard from the very beginning. It would've been a nice continuation from the old NASL days. Even though we never won a soccer bowl as the Blizzard, at least we were a consistently competitive team that ALMOST won a couple of times lol

But here's a thought: since the Argos to BMO is pretty much a sure thing (it disgusts me, but it is what it is), re-brand to the Blizzard, change the colour of all the seats in BMO from red to blue, put a big bronze statue of Eusebio outside, and the stadium will make sense for everyone.
I'll see myself to the door lol:hide: please dont revoke my membership.

[Yohan]

I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority but I'm of the belief that TFC should've been called the Blizzard from the very beginning. It would've been a nice continuation from the old NASL days. Even though we never won a soccer bowl as the Blizzard, at least we were a consistently competitive team that ALMOST won a couple of times lol

But here's a thought: since the Argos to BMO is pretty much a sure thing (it disgusts me, but it is what it is), re-brand to the Blizzard, change the colour of all the seats in BMO from red to blue, put a big bronze statue of Eusebio outside, and the stadium will make sense for everyone.
I'll see myself to the door lol:hide: please dont revoke my membership.
the last thing I want is Argos fans to feel at home at BMO

[ironcub14]

So? It's been like that for over a 100 years in England?

I'm just saying that, if you are attracted to a NASL side in the GTA because you are vehemently anti-MLSE/TFC, then you are just going to have a peach of a time when a MLS side in the same CMA scoops up your best homegrown players in your NASL side after one good season... as it's been like for over a 100 years in England. The supporters have to understand that and be ready for it when they jump aboard.

I would look forward to a NASL side in Hamilton for sure. I would only look forward to a NASL side in GTA only after a NASL Hamilton side got going, and a USL Pro Toronto side got going, and that there is strong evidence from a market feasibility study or some corporate bs that really does say that the GTA could support MLS/NASL/USL Pro/USL PDL/L1O/CSL/etc all at the same time.

[bones]

I wonder how sanctioning would go though. L1O is sanctioned by OSA and as per their rules {subset pushed down from CSA} the OSA {and CSA} is ONLY allowed to sanction 1 league of professional / semi-professional under their sanctioning. It would appear TFC's first in took that spot but L1O was started so that means TFC got CSA permission? Regardless, L1O and TFC have sanctioning taking the spot(s). Where would NASL or USL-Pro go?
I would love to know the real answer behind this because I was trying to activate a league at the Tier-2 level (same as NASL) but strictly for Southern Ontario with 14 teams in cities that are all within 4 hours drive of a Central location, 13 home, 13 away, single table, 1 game per week no playoffs, single entity ownership for cap purposes yadda yadda, and OSA shot me down because of the "only 1 sanctioned league" thing. CSA said because the teams are all in Ontario, only OSA can sanction it. So there went my dream.

[jloome]

I'm sure jloome has more insight on this than I but we can start with the fact that NASL are teams that CEDED from the USL. That doesn't build bridges from either side. NASL forming closer relationships with USL and vice versa is very much about egos.

NASL had some of the most successful teams but as a league they are all they have vs the USL structure that has more structure, levels, partnerships and experience as a whole.

I hope they come to terms but it's more likely the NASL Canadian teams find more stability in a CFL partnership.

jloome?

I would prefer USL simply because of the legal responsibilities to the parent; USL itself (and the a-league before it) is no better run than NASL, which is why the A-league floundered for years.

But NY Red Bulls have loaned to the Cosmos, other clubs have loaned to NASL teams. It can work if it has to.

I will say that, as someone suggested above, much of the investment in NASL clubs (and to an extent USL) is based very much in pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking by guys with more money than sense. Even then, the losses have been high enough for most teams that the original owners have diversified with other soccer "enthusiast" investors being brought in to lessen the blow. But with no real centralized control over how owners behave, no substantive and realistic communications plan and very little understanding on the part of owners of how the game is run or the business side, NASL is very much still fly-by-night. It is slowly improving, and some clubs are doing it as well as can be expected. But the very fact that it's been done to "take advantage" of the groundswell of firm-style fan support and not because of a grassroots appreciation or knowledge of the game is a big part of why it hasn't done well.

The Cosmos are fairly typical; a shrinking fan base an hour out of the city, with only the name to rest on. Most clubs don't even have that.

USL was just as owner-driven and idiotic at one point; but coming under MLS partnership has been its saving grace.

I've interviewed a lot of people involved in minor pro soccer at one time or another in Canada and the U.S.; half are starry-eyed good ol' boys and the other half are the predators keen to eat their scraps. If owner egos and schuysters didn't rule the roost, there's no reason to think sustainable business models for multiple pro tiers couldn't be established.

[azorean]

+1

Bring back the Blizzard! (both the team, and the guy who used that handle here in the early years of this board)

hell yeah, fond memories of watching the Blizzard at Varsity stadium in the csl......

[TFC07]

I wonder how sanctioning would go though. L1O is sanctioned by OSA and as per their rules {subset pushed down from CSA} the OSA {and CSA} is ONLY allowed to sanction 1 league of professional / semi-professional under their sanctioning. It would appear TFC's first in took that spot but L1O was started so that means TFC got CSA permission? Regardless, L1O and TFC have sanctioning taking the spot(s). Where would NASL or USL-Pro go?
I would love to know the real answer behind this because I was trying to activate a league at the Tier-2 level (same as NASL) but strictly for Southern Ontario with 14 teams in cities that are all within 4 hours drive of a Central location, 13 home, 13 away, single table, 1 game per week no playoffs, single entity ownership for cap purposes yadda yadda, and OSA shot me down because of the "only 1 sanctioned league" thing. CSA said because the teams are all in Ontario, only OSA can sanction it. So there went my dream.

Toronto USL Pro team is affiliated with TFC. So they're under TFC, but that doesn't mean USL Pro league in general is sanction by CSA. CSA give Canadian MLS clubs permission to set up USL Pro teams for development purposes with strict Canadian requirements.

League One (other provincial semi-pro leagues in Canada) is consider 3rd division by CSA, so this is why USL Pro will never be form outside of Canadian MLS clubs.

NASL is already sanction by CSA and accepted by OSA (Ottawa Fury) as 2nd tier nationwide. Hamilton is rumour to join NASL soon, so I don't understand why all confusion with CSA and OSA role here?

[azorean]

Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...:hide:


love tfc, but the Blizzard were'nt / ain't bad......remember watching many games at varsity solo because friends did'nt give a shit....lol....late autumn/playoff games were great, especially vs Bunbury and the Steelers.

[bones]

Toronto USL Pro team is affiliated with TFC. So they're under TFC, but that doesn't mean USL Pro league in general is sanction by CSA. CSA give Canadian MLS clubs permission to set up USL Pro teams for development purposes with strict Canadian requirements.

League One (other provincial semi-pro leagues in Canada) is consider 3rd division by CSA, so this is why USL Pro will never be form outside of Canadian MLS clubs.

NASL is already sanction by CSA and accepted by OSA (Ottawa Fury) as 2nd tier nationwide. Hamilton is rumour to join NASL soon, so I don't understand why all confusion with CSA and OSA role here?


Aaah permission... there's the key thing.

The fact it's 3rd tier or 18th tier beer making division is irrelevant, if a league is sanctioned by OSA, then the OSA is not allowed to sanction another league regardless of level. If it's pro/semi-pro, they're not allowed to, period.

I think you're bang on about "never be form outside of a Canadian MLS club" part.

My confusion was the special permission part. Seems to be ok for special permission for affiliates of MLS only.

[Cashcleaner]

+1

Bring back the Blizzard! (both the team, and the guy who used that handle here in the early years of this board)

What about bringing back...

TORONTO CITY FC?

[flamehawk]

A bit more information was just released on the Two Solitudes podcast. Duane mentioned that the investor group is a major real estate firm in the city. He is simply giving them the opportunity to comment before he releases more information.

[TFC07]

A bit more information was just released on the Two Solitudes podcast. Duane mentioned that the investor group is a major real estate firm in the city. He is simply giving them the opportunity to comment before he releases more information.

That sucks! I was hoping it was someone with soccer ties.

[Petor]

That sucks! I was hoping it was someone with soccer ties.

http://makaiboutique.com/images/large/IMG_0520.JPG

[Kingvikingstad]

A bit more information was just released on the Two Solitudes podcast. Duane mentioned that the investor group is a major real estate firm in the city. He is simply giving them the opportunity to comment before he releases more information.

MLSE?

Because they sure as shit aren't running sports franchises.

[Damien]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/gordiedelini/Toronto-Blizzard.gif

[TFC07]

Can't we just use old Blizzard logo? or is there a trademark issue?

[CasualSoccerFan]

Joe Parolini, former GM of the Toronto Blizzard, might have something to say about the trademark. If I'm reading this right, he seems to have been recently approved by the Canadian IP Office to register "Toronto Blizzard" for use in all kinds of soccer-related gear and stationary, and the "organization, administration and operation of a professional and amateur soccer club".

www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/vwTrdmrk.do?lang=eng&status=OK&fileNumber=1604928&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1

A cursory google search indicates that Joe Parolini seems to have been quite the successful businessman. This site (www.allpennystocks.com/aps_us/special-reports/447/empire-global-signs-definitive-agreement-to-acquire-italian-online-gaming-operator-multigioco.htm) lists him as interim president of Empire Global, which purchased an Italian company and now owns 800 gaming venues (betting shops?) in Italy. Does that count as a real estate company?

So...is Joe just protecting an IP asset he owns, or is he involved in a new Toronto Blizzard relaunch? One tweet and a trademark doesn't a soccer team make, but I am getting irrationally excited about an alternative to an MLSE-run team, even a 2nd division one.

[Doucet3]

To add to this, Duane Rollins said after the TFCA championship last night he spoke to the coach and "Toronto FC WILL have a USL pro team next year" ... Now take Duane's comments with a grain of salt he's tweet happy sometimes I hear, also a Toronto USL pro team could mean in the city .... Or one just directly affiliated, waiting for developments with that.

On the Hanilton NASL team I'd love to see it and have heard the TiCats owner and the potential NASL ownership group were on rocky terms but have recently mended that and are back on track to pushing or a Hamilton team. With the tim hortons field and ticats deadline of 2015 September to make a choice I think it's a decent possibility.

my opinion... I'd love to see Hamilton get a NASL team... I'd like (being from Niagara) to catch some came and if there associated with TFC even better, but it does sound at least a bit promising with ticats actively pursuing it and a ownership group in talks. I'd also love to see TFC II in somewhere like Miss, btown, any GTA city.

[Mark in Ottawa]

The NASL continues to look upon all of Canada as a favourable expansion territory. The chance for CFL teams to get secondary tenants for their stadiums is appealing on many levels.
NASL average attendances are not much more than 5,000 or so and so even without the CFL there are university stadiums etc... where teams could set up shop.
Lamport Stadium anyone??

[flamehawk]

To add to this, Duane Rollins said after the TFCA championship last night he spoke to the coach and "Toronto FC WILL have a USL pro team next year" ... Now take Duane's comments with a grain of salt he's tweet happy sometimes I hear, also a Toronto USL pro team could mean in the city .... Or one just directly affiliated, waiting for developments with that.

On the Hanilton NASL team I'd love to see it and have heard the TiCats owner and the potential NASL ownership group were on rocky terms but have recently mended that and are back on track to pushing or a Hamilton team. With the tim hortons field and ticats deadline of 2015 September to make a choice I think it's a decent possibility.

my opinion... I'd love to see Hamilton get a NASL team... I'd like (being from Niagara) to catch some came and if there associated with TFC even better, but it does sound at least a bit promising with ticats actively pursuing it and a ownership group in talks. I'd also love to see TFC II in somewhere like Miss, btown, any GTA city.

If you listen to the two solitude broadcast, Michael Stefano does say that there will be a USL team next year. Duane has a recording of the interview.

[themodelcitizen]

Is it just me or are people bringing up the most random and irrelevant shit? Yes NASL is a step down. Obviously it won't ever be a level competitor to MLS. Theres also no reason it can't compete to a degree in its own right - the Cosmos aren't exactly a feeder club to NYRB, are they?

[jloome]

Is it just me or are people bringing up the most random and irrelevant shit? Yes NASL is a step down. Obviously it won't ever be a level competitor to MLS. Theres also no reason it can't compete to a degree in its own right - the Cosmos aren't exactly a feeder club to NYRB, are they?

They're not exactly a feeder to anybody. They're hardly a club. And the reason it can't compete is it's being terribly run, largely by owners who've jumped into it as if it were the reincarnation of roller derby, they've so seriously fucked the dog on understanding the marketplace. Minor league soccer in NA has always been a cesspool of schuysters and naive businessmen with more money (usually from one specialized field, from a firm they've owned since they were 29) than sense. Still is.

[Shway]

They're not exactly a feeder to anybody. They're hardly a club. And the reason it can't compete is it's being terribly run, largely by owners who've jumped into it as if it were the reincarnation of roller derby, they've so seriously fucked the dog on understanding the marketplace. Minor league soccer in NA has always been a cesspool of schuysters and naive businessmen with more money (usually from one specialized field, from a firm they've owned since they were 29) than sense. Still is.

You can't seriously say that the Cosmos "are hardly a club" because they play in the NASL. I see the Cosmo's currently taking a different route to get on the World stage (again?), and build their brand.

They are currently averaging 5K in this 11K stadium (http://www.footballzz.com/img/estadios/748/70748_ori_james_m_shuart_stadium.jpg)....with no salary cap, and plans to build something similar to this stadium (http://cosmosstadium.com/). Their route to getting on the World stage(winning CCL) may just be easier than a team from the MLS. IMO

[OgtheDim]

You can't seriously say that the Cosmos "are hardly a club" because they play in the NASL. I see the Cosmo's currently taking a different route to get on the World stage (again?), and build their brand.

They are currently averaging 5K in this 11K stadium (http://www.footballzz.com/img/estadios/748/70748_ori_james_m_shuart_stadium.jpg)....with no salary cap, and plans to build something similar to this stadium (http://cosmosstadium.com/). Their route to getting on the World stage(winning CCL) may just be easier than a team from the MLS. IMO


5K on Long Island...and dropping. That's like being in Milton and drawing 1K.

As for the stadium plans, those are going nowhere.

Shirt sales around the rest of the world - hardly any in NYC proper.

Schuysters indeed.

[ensco]

Too soon to say about Cosmos. A lot of players (their wives?) want to live in NY, but there are only 6 DP slots available.

http://www.nycosmos.com/article/uuid/nv396l61pvx517104xa79muzo/cosmos-sign-legendary-spanish-striker-raul-gonzalez-blanco

[Initial B]

Just more news about the Cosmos: They signed Raul at 37 to be their striker. And the NASL website has an article about the Terminus Legion in Atlanta saying that they'll "always be there to support our Silverbacks".

http://www.nasl.com/article/uuid/4x4mqnwdbdu91xsa5xpsrgiun/scarves-up-terminus-legion

Is it just me or is the spin on the NASL website articles starting to sound more, well, desperate? I guess the true measure if the league is how much buzz it generates, but the press releases lately just sound overly earnest, trying to make themselves seen from behind the MLS elephant in the room.

I think their only hope for survival is to do an end run around MLS and set up a Canadian conference. Otherwise they're going to get popped like a zit between MLS and USL Pro.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Is it just me or is the spin on the NASL website articles starting to sound more, well, desperate? I guess the true measure if the league is how much buzz it generates, but the press releases lately just sound overly earnest, trying to make themselves seen from behind the MLS elephant in the room.



NASL buzz? Other than when it began again I don't think there has been anybody talking outside of their team markets. But I don't see USL Pro doing any better on a team by team basis or as a league with buzz around it. USL Pro just has bigger, older structure. While the league has more stability it says nothing about their teams solvency which tend to come and go just as fast as previous years in this sport on this continent.

Make themselves seen around MLS? No. In no way are they competing for the footy dollar that way.

[Initial B]

NASL buzz?

Make themselves seen around MLS? No. In no way are they competing for the footy dollar that way.
Then what exactly are they competing for? What's their market? If there is never going to be Pro/Rel, then why even bother to exist as their own entity? Does NASL exist just as an ego boost/footy dream for Traffic Sports or is there some sort of philisophical divide/niche that the league fills that isn't covered by MLS or USL Pro? What does it have that will make the fans want to come back if a rival league is also in town?

[Beach_Red]

NASL buzz? Other than when it began again I don't think there has been anybody talking outside of their team markets. But I don't see USL Pro doing any better on a team by team basis or as a league with buzz around it. USL Pro just has bigger, older structure. While the league has more stability it says nothing about their teams solvency which tend to come and go just as fast as previous years in this sport on this continent.

Make themselves seen around MLS? No. In no way are they competing for the footy dollar that way.

If we're really lucky NASL will be very successful in a few markets and then it will merge with MLS. If the NASL teams are successful in big enough markets they'll have a little negotiating clout in the merger talks and that might go well. Every other North American league is the product of a merger so it could happen again.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Then what exactly are they competing for? What's their market? If there is never going to be Pro/Rel, then why even bother to exist as their own entity? Does NASL exist just as an ego boost/footy dream for Traffic Sports or is there some sort of philisophical divide/niche that the league fills that isn't covered by MLS or USL Pro? What does it have that will make the fans want to come back if a rival league is also in town?

I understand your impatience in seeing the growth of the game evolve to an interaction between leagues like elsewhere but I don't see enough from these leagues yet to see more than a farm system come to pass.

I thought it was widely known that NASL was a splinter from USL. Teams that felt they were successful enough to form their own league. So yeah they've been a division above USL and below MLS.

Why wouldn't we want that division in the pyramid? Players playing at a higher level more likely to stay in MLS vs a bigger jump from USL?

Didn't you have both leagues in Ottawa as recently as 2 years ago?

[ironcub14]

I understand your impatience in seeing the growth of the game evolve to an interaction between leagues like elsewhere but I don't see enough from these leagues yet to see more than a farm system come to pass.

I thought it was widely known that NASL was a splinter from USL. Teams that felt they were successful enough to form their own league. So yeah they've been a division above USL and below MLS.

Why wouldn't we want that division in the pyramid? Players playing at a higher level more likely to stay in MLS vs a bigger jump from USL?

Didn't you have both leagues in Ottawa as recently as 2 years ago?


Then what exactly are they competing for? What's their market? If there is never going to be Pro/Rel, then why even bother to exist as their own entity? Does NASL exist just as an ego boost/footy dream for Traffic Sports or is there some sort of philisophical divide/niche that the league fills that isn't covered by MLS or USL Pro? What does it have that will make the fans want to come back if a rival league is also in town?

In Ottawa, we had USL PDL for awhile, I think about a decade, up until 2013. We had CSL for one year in 2011, and now we've had NASL since 2014.

To question why NASL exists in between MLS and USL Pro seems a pretty silly question to me, if you think about how many divisions and leagues and clubs there are in lower divisions in footy in Europe and how many minor league sports and leagues and teams there are in smaller cities in North America. Since MLS has decided they wanted to focus on the major markets only, I applaud all the other leagues that have provided much-needed footy for all those unfortunate enough to live in a non-MLS city. Besides, the A-League/USL, which NASL splintered off from as Fort York Redcoat said, was around before MLS anyways.

I hope you have been attending the Ottawa Fury games in the city this year. I used to attend USL PDL, and have since moved to Toronto but made sure to attend a few NASL matches in Ottawa this year. Footy fans in Ottawa and other NASL cities who are dedicated enough will enjoy and love the NASL matches even if pro/rel never exists, you don't need a MLS dream to enjoy footy in North America.

[Initial B]

I have Fury Season tickets, so yeah I'm in for the long haul. :)

In trying to answer my own question, I came across these two articles. They're rather eye-opening:

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2013/12/17/as-mls-nasl-and-usl-pro-expands-the-us-soccer-talent-pool-becomes-more-diluted/

http://dohertysoccer.com/2012/11/07/reconciling-the-rivalry-between-nasl-and-usl-pro/

Apparently, it is a philosophical difference between closed leagues and open leagues. They seem to indicate that the USSF is pretty much under the thumb of MLS. There is also a link to an article about the history of the American professional league from the 1920's that self-destructed and caused the resulting 50 lost years of professional play in North America.

[Macksam]

Joe Parolini, former GM of the Toronto Blizzard, might have something to say about the trademark. If I'm reading this right, he seems to have been recently approved by the Canadian IP Office to register "Toronto Blizzard" for use in all kinds of soccer-related gear and stationary, and the "organization, administration and operation of a professional and amateur soccer club".

www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/vwTrdmrk.do?lang=eng&status=OK&fileNumber=1604928&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1 (http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/vwTrdmrk.do?lang=eng&status=OK&fileNumber=1604928&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1)



WARES: (http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr03106.html#ware)
(1) Shirts, t-shirts, sweatshirts, jerseys, sweaters, parkas, jackets, ponchos, scarves, caps, knit cap, visors, aprons, towels, cushions, soccer balls, numbered and un-numbered jerseys, gym shorts, track suits, sweatsuits, shoes, tote bags, plaques, trophies for soccer and sports contests, novelty trophies, buttons, emblems, pennants, patches for clothing, stickers, decals, banners, posters, balloons, key chains and pins, letterhead, envelopes, pens, pencils, notebooks, clipboards, binders, calendars, cups, mugs, ashtrays, drink coasters, plastic serving trays, bottle openers, soccer books and pamphlets, and periodical promotional material, namely, media guides and magazines.

SERVICES: (http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr03106.html#serv)
(1) Organization, administration and operation of a professional and amateur soccer club providing entertainment in the form of soccer contests and the promotion of interest in and the development of the sport of soccer generally by means of publicity through the media of press, radio, films, video tape and television.

Ha, Mr. Parolini left out Zippos. I will trademark the Toronto Blizzard specifically for that!

How sexy would a Blizzard version of this look?

https://www.multifanshop.de/images/produkte/i33/33559-1194-01.jpg

[TFC07]

CSN is reporting that there will be all Canadian soccer league in 2017.

I wonder if Toronto will get a team in Canadian league

[Cashcleaner]

^ This could work. Put a club in every major city and the peripheries of Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto. MLS will be the first tier for both Canadian and American teams, but we can have a strong domestic league at the tier below. Also, move Edmonton and Ottawa from the NASL and put them there as well. An 8-team league would probably work out well to start.

[mistercorporate]

Let's do this! Loving the explosion of soccer teams and leagues here in Canada (L1O, USL, Women's L1O, NASL and now moves towards a Canadian League), let the road trips begin!!