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C.Ronaldo
10-24-2014, 03:49 PM
So i learned alot of interesting things this week from a pretty relaible source. I wont devludge it all out of respect, but most of it is confirmation of what we already know

nelson was no players coach. Pep talks were non existent.... Very negative. Tactics were also few and far between. Double practices in a single day were common as corrective measure. Defoe was not a fan as were few others.

Also TL had full intentions of staying full two years once his culture correction was in place. But board caught wind and asked him to leave at the contract minimum. TL is genuinely heart broken that Defoe didnt work out and that TFC took such a sudden dive.

And most importantly. Gilberto aint going nowhere. Let's hope that's true.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-24-2014, 05:52 PM
most not surprising, surprised and happy to hear about Gilberto and the TL bit. Thanks for the insight

jazzy
10-24-2014, 09:04 PM
So Bez was right in letting go off Nelson ......

mowe
10-24-2014, 09:15 PM
So Bez was right in letting go off Nelson ......

No question. It was obvious he had no idea how to make adjustments and get the most out of his players. Jury still on Vanney though.

burlington Red
10-24-2014, 09:17 PM
very sceptical when I see inside info from "sources", as it typically is a biased view from one particular viewpoint. A lot of the inside info leaking this season seems to be coming from the Tim's and their affialites.
Two sides to every argument.
Personally I see the Tim's trying to throw people under the bus, trying to save their own reps. Tim B brought in a new manager who failed ie not making play offs, yet here we are today not picking over his tactics etc, not picking over how we failed to sign a creative mid during the season, how none of our DP's had the seasons we envisaged they would have. The reason being leaked out today is that Defoe's mum ruined our season.
"Sources" make for headlines, that's all they do.

Red4ever
10-24-2014, 10:11 PM
It's funny C.Ronaldo because I've heard the exact same thing about Timmy L and the exact opposite about Nelly. A lot of the guys didn't know why he was taking heat.

Shakes McQueen
10-24-2014, 10:56 PM
It's funny C.Ronaldo because I've heard the exact same thing about Timmy L and the exact opposite about Nelly. A lot of the guys didn't know why he was taking heat.

It probably depends on which player you speak to, and when you spoke to them. I don't doubt that this source is real, but as with all anonymous sources, it becomes impossible to divine a motive, or how objective the account is.

dutch
10-24-2014, 11:27 PM
I didnt get the second part, they asked him to leave because the big bloody defoe deal fell flat? every opinion is a biased opinion but when your dealing with a stonewall like TFC that lets little be known. its very appreciated

jloome
10-24-2014, 11:36 PM
It's funny C.Ronaldo because I've heard the exact same thing about Timmy L and the exact opposite about Nelly. A lot of the guys didn't know why he was taking heat.

Yeah, but you have to admit he's been dead on before. His source is definitely inside TFC.

dutch
10-25-2014, 02:38 AM
being a great player, you would think he would be a 'players coach' but in his career he may have been at some great clubs where the status quo was the coach will talk to you if he needs to. possibly..
he will end up assistant coach somewhere for a very long time I believe

Red4ever
10-25-2014, 09:46 AM
Yeah, but you have to admit he's been dead on before. His source is definitely inside TFC.


Absolutely. I take it with a grain of salt, but can already see it being correct. If you speak with players / coaches . old/young, 1st year / 3+ plus around the organization, (as shakes said) everyone will put their opinion on it.

OgtheDim
10-25-2014, 09:46 AM
being a great player, you would think he would be a 'players coach' but in his career he may have been at some great clubs where the status quo was the coach will talk to you if he needs to. possibly..
he will end up assistant coach somewhere for a very long time I believe

Nelsen should have done that first. He had offers, he stated at one point. Should go and do that for a long time. Then, if he has the bug to be the head honcho still, he can grab a position in Division 1 in England. Or then go and manage NZ, which I'm sure he'll do at some point in his career.

Just not here, in MLS.

ensco
10-25-2014, 10:58 AM
The OP makes sense to me re Nelsen. Players were automatons when asked about Nelsen (I'm talking pre Aug 31). Plus he was a snake with Payne, everyone else moves on, but the room never does.

I think the TL part is probably a tiny fraction of his story. His sincerity isn't the issue. Where'd the "two years" come from? Never heard that before, it was always 5 years, until it wasn't.

C.Ronaldo
10-25-2014, 02:06 PM
True. Everyome has their side of the story. In the end though we knew nelson wasnt the man for the job.

The insight to defoe was most intersting to me.

In the end TL got me a roof. That in itself would be a good start of it weren't for the shit shows before TL. TL also delayed season ticket sales and froze prices. I know he didn't have much choice...but it was still a decent gesture

Lumpy
10-25-2014, 02:21 PM
In the end though we knew nelson wasnt the man for the job.

Ha. Who is we ??? You got what you wanted I guess. A 3rd place team that dropped down to 7th. A team that got 8 points out of a possible 27 so far and could end up getting 8 out of a possible 30. I would call that a disaster. As far as the complainer source you quoted I would have told him to stop your whining you should be having 3 practices a/day not 2.

Ajax TFC
10-25-2014, 03:50 PM
Ha. Who is we ??? You got what you wanted I guess. A 3rd place team that dropped down to 7th. A team that got 8 points out of a possible 27 so far and could end up getting 8 out of a possible 30. I would call that a disaster. As far as the complainer source you quoted I would have told him to stop your whining you should be having 3 practices a/day not 2.
Lol that's rational. The team completely burned out because Nelsen was overworking them. It was obvious when Nelsen was here still that the team had burned out. The fact that Vanney hasn't been able to turn it around is probably a result of the fact that THE TEAM IS BURNT OUT. More practices and higher intensity practices doesn't improve the team; it wears them out. It's also a well known fact that Nelsen believed in full game simulations on Wednesdays whenever there was no midweek game. That means two games a week every single week. There's no team in the world that can sustain that without a high amount of rotation, which Nelsen didn't do

Lumpy
10-25-2014, 04:36 PM
Lol that's rational. The team completely burned out because Nelsen was overworking them. It was obvious when Nelsen was here still that the team had burned out. The fact that Vanney hasn't been able to turn it around is probably a result of the fact that THE TEAM IS BURNT OUT. More practices and higher intensity practices doesn't improve the team; it wears them out. It's also a well known fact that Nelsen believed in full game simulations on Wednesdays whenever there was no midweek game. That means two games a week every single week. There's no team in the world that can sustain that without a high amount of rotation, which Nelsen didn't do

LOL X2 I see it now. That bastard tired them all out so that they stink worse now than they did before the firing. Sort of a jet-lag kinda of thing I guess. Wouldn't they be a little rested up after 7 weeks of easy practice days and polite conversation ???

Fort York Redcoat
10-26-2014, 10:16 AM
True. Everyome has their side of the story. In the end though we knew nelson wasnt the man for the job.

The insight to defoe was most intersting to me.

In the end TL got me a roof. That in itself would be a good start of it weren't for the shit shows before TL. TL also delayed season ticket sales and froze prices. I know he didn't have much choice...but it was still a decent gesture


Ha. Who is we ??? You got what you wanted I guess. A 3rd place team that dropped down to 7th. A team that got 8 points out of a possible 27 so far and could end up getting 8 out of a possible 30. I would call that a disaster. As far as the complainer source you quoted I would have told him to stop your whining you should be having 3 practices a/day not 2.

Well to be fair Nelsen wasn't the man for the job because he's not here anymore. He MAY not have been a players coach but that doesn't mean there isn't a team that would have responded to his style of coaching. I have no issues with him outside of how the team failed to respond to his leadership.

I doubt that anyone is glad that the team nosedived after his departure.

C.Ronaldo
10-29-2014, 09:44 AM
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/23/mother-at-the-centre-of-jermain-defoe-drama-sources

larson's source sounds alot like the person I spoke to, the same day.

Wondering if this is a "play" by MLSE

gdg_9
10-29-2014, 11:43 AM
So i learned alot of interesting things this week from a pretty relaible source. I wont devludge it all out of respect, but most of it is confirmation of what we already know

nelson was no players coach. Pep talks were non existent.... Very negative. Tactics were also few and far between. Double practices in a single day were common as corrective measure. Defoe was not a fan as were few others.

Also TL had full intentions of staying full two years once his culture correction was in place. But board caught wind and asked him to leave at the contract minimum. TL is genuinely heart broken that Defoe didnt work out and that TFC took such a sudden dive.

And most importantly. Gilberto aint going nowhere. Let's hope that's true.


very sceptical when I see inside info from "sources", as it typically is a biased view from one particular viewpoint. A lot of the inside info leaking this season seems to be coming from the Tim's and their affialites.
Two sides to every argument.
Personally I see the Tim's trying to throw people under the bus, trying to save their own reps. Tim B brought in a new manager who failed ie not making play offs, yet here we are today not picking over his tactics etc, not picking over how we failed to sign a creative mid during the season, how none of our DP's had the seasons we envisaged they would have. The reason being leaked out today is that Defoe's mum ruined our season.
"Sources" make for headlines, that's all they do.


It's funny C.Ronaldo because I've heard the exact same thing about Timmy L and the exact opposite about Nelly. A lot of the guys didn't know why he was taking heat.

A little late to this... but just to back C.Ronaldo, I was speaking to someone the night before Nelsen was fired who works directly with many of the players. They told me many of the players "can't stand" him.
This person has no reason for any specific agenda, besides being a fan of the team who happens to deal with several of the players on a non-soccer related topic.

Same person also hinted a while back that Defoe wouldn't last long, because his family didn't like it here and had already moved back to England.

mook-life
10-30-2014, 12:24 AM
I don't get all this bullshit about high intensity practices and how it's burns players out you had a bad game coach made you simulate a game midweek before you played Saturday blah blah blah..... in the military we trained hard day in day out no matter how damn tired our asses were and we were always expected to perform. We never got half the the shit pro athletes get to keep them going we got water, food and a kick in the ass PERIOD. So as far as I am concerned it's all excuses

And Yea I know it's a crazy compariso but I can tell you these guys were and are in better shape than I was or will ever be

JuliquE
10-30-2014, 12:45 AM
I don't get all this bullshit about high intensity practices and how it's burns players out you had a bad game coach made you simulate a game midweek before you played Saturday blah blah blah..... in the military we trained hard day in day out no matter how damn tired our asses were and we were always expected to perform. We never got half the the shit pro athletes get to keep them going we got water, food and a kick in the ass PERIOD. So as far as I am concerned it's all excuses

And Yea I know it's a crazy compariso but I can tell you these guys were and are in better shape than I was or will ever be
I would point to people like Dike as examples for how everyone's body is different; despite being a beast of a specimen, his body clearly can't take too much strain. That's where a more scientific approach would be especially important.

I feel like Nelsen's tactics required a lot of high-pressure defending, and speed. For him, running the players into the ground might have been how he prepared them for the fitness challenges such a game-plan presents. Got away with it, at the start, albeit not without our fair share of injuries.. only for it to catch us up, in the end.

This sort of militant, same standard for all, approach is what I think Nelsen subscribed to. Can't say I'll miss it, myself, if I'm honest, and, for me, it's been refreshing to hear the ideas Vanney has, as we look to join the modern era of football training. He touched on a few tools they've already started using, and alluded to there being a fair many more things to come.

mook-life
10-30-2014, 01:14 AM
I would point to people like Dike as examples for how everyone's body is different; despite being a beast of a specimen, his body clearly can't take too much strain. That's where a more scientific approach would be especially important.

I feel like Nelsen's tactics required a lot of high-pressure defending, and speed. For him, running the players into the ground might have been how he prepared them for the fitness challenges such a game-plan presents. Got away with it, at the start, albeit not without our fair share of injuries.. only for it to catch us up, in the end.

This sort of militant, same standard for all, approach is what I think Nelsen subscribed to. Can't say I'll miss it, myself, if I'm honest, and, for me, it's been refreshing to hear the ideas Vanney has, as we look to join the modern era of football training. He touched on a few tools they've already started using, and alluded to there being a fair many more things to come.

I see where you're coming from with the whole we are all different excuse and we all react differently, but we were all different in the infantry and we all damn sure kept up and thass with making half the money and none of the sports science crap...

But I am biased and my views cannot be changed for me no matter what you must always perform especially when you are getting paid to do the job no excuses

And once again it's an extreme comparison iI just used, you can't really compare sissy pro athletes to Gung ho mofo's

C.Ronaldo
10-30-2014, 09:20 AM
I see where you're coming from with the whole we are all different excuse and we all react differently, but we were all different in the infantry and we all damn sure kept up and thass with making half the money and none of the sports science crap...

But I am biased and my views cannot be changed for me no matter what you must always perform especially when you are getting paid to do the job no excuses

And once again it's an extreme comparison iI just used, you can't really compare sissy pro athletes to Gung ho mofo's

but whats to say that if they used science, you wouldnt have performed better? Its not about keeping up, its about about having a leg up on the opponent. For us that means more effcient runs, passes, shots, and less injuries.

as Gretzky said, skate to where the puck will be

mook-life
10-30-2014, 09:57 AM
but whats to say that if they used science, you wouldnt have performed better? Its not about keeping up, its about about having a leg up on the opponent. For us that means more effcient runs, passes, shots, and less injuries.

as Gretzky said, skate to where the puck will be

I know we performed to the best of our abilities to avoid a beasting there is no holding back your lives depend on your training. You could also tell by the amount of puke piss and tears coming out of your body

Canary10
10-30-2014, 09:59 AM
I heard from an internal contact Leiweke was spending money hand-over-fist and much of it unapproved. That's why he's leaving according to this person.

C.Ronaldo
10-30-2014, 10:10 AM
I heard from an internal contact Leiweke was spending money hand-over-fist and much of it unapproved. That's why he's leaving according to this person.

unapproved spending would be grounds for firing....i highly doubt that was it.

Canary10
10-30-2014, 10:13 AM
"Firing" a guy of that profile isn't simple. I believe what happened was a firing for all intents and purposes.

C.Ronaldo
10-30-2014, 10:16 AM
I know we performed to the best of our abilities to avoid a beasting there is no holding back your lives depend on your training. You could also tell by the amount of puke piss and tears coming out of your body

thats true, but with stats you can prove it. Puke and piss is subjective.

Science found the benefits of electrolytes, proper nutrition, amino acids, etcc... Things like this can bring you to the next level, and sometimes the next level is .001 seconds.

OfficeGuy
10-30-2014, 10:28 AM
unapproved spending would be grounds for firing....i highly doubt that was it.


I believe this - with all the saturation bombarding every avenue possible - so much more than in previous years
-->the gamble did not pay off tho - esp given the 2014 Season result - this would have to be repeated next season all over again

happens once - shame on me
happens twice - shame on you and you're fired

mook-life
10-30-2014, 11:12 AM
thats true, but with stats you can prove it. Puke and piss is subjective.

Science found the benefits of electrolytes, proper nutrition, amino acids, etcc... Things like this can bring you to the next level, and sometimes the next level is .001 seconds.

there is also another stat that we were taught " Peoples bodies max out at when they use around 70-80% of there energy which means we always have more to give, you learn to push through that during training which clearly these guys don't and there could be your .001 .

listen your never gonna agree cause your clearly a sports science dude, but pro athletes are pampered sissys

C.Ronaldo
10-30-2014, 12:13 PM
there is also another stat that we were taught " Peoples bodies max out at when they use around 70-80% of there energy which means we always have more to give, you learn to push through that during training which clearly these guys don't and there could be your .001 .

listen your never gonna agree cause your clearly a sports science dude, but pro athletes are pampered sissys

No, I agree 100% they are pampered sissys

burlington Red
10-30-2014, 12:28 PM
the amount of people on here with inside info is staggering. I am not doubting anyones legitamcy for one second, but it's crazy the amount of people popping up with "sources" info. Add this to reporters, bloggers etc who also have the inside scoop- it's insane really.I can't recall any club team I have supported both professional and semi pro ever having this many leaks. Either the front office is more porous than my colander, or people on here have very influential friends, maybe bit of both........

brad
10-30-2014, 12:43 PM
the amount of people on here with inside info is staggering. I am not doubting anyones legitamcy for one second, but it's crazy the amount of people popping up with "sources" info. Add this to reporters, bloggers etc who also have the inside scoop- it's insane really.I can't recall any club team I have supported both professional and semi pro ever having this many leaks. Either the front office is more porous than my colander, or people on here have very influential friends, maybe bit of both........

Here's the thing, "inside information" is everywhere with this team, you don't even have to go looking for it. I used to live down by the stadium, and I'd fairly routinely come across stuff. Check your PM's, I send you a couple of examples which I don't really want to post publicly, but don't mind sharing via PM.

MightyDM
10-30-2014, 12:44 PM
"Firing" a guy of that profile isn't simple. I believe what happened was a firing for all intents and purposes.

I have believed this from the beginning, although I thought it was more the typical MLSE power play. This is Larry T's shop, and Tim got rid of his guys. With the Bell/Rogers relationship strained, Larry's power has resurfaced, and he has reassertion his control. Suspicions of unauthorized spending would be a good pretext. Tim saying "the plan was always that I would only stay a couple of years never made sense to me"

OgtheDim
10-30-2014, 01:11 PM
LT didn't get his way on the Argos. And that strain thing has yet to be seen in what is happening within MLSE.

LT is not in control.

MightyDM
10-30-2014, 01:13 PM
It sounds true that Nelsen pushed them hard, he had high standards - Premier League success and an undefeated run in the World Cup, both that came through graft as a player. He seemed to rate highest players that thrived under hard work, and it does possibly account for the injuries. A bit hard to accept that there was too much discontent though. For example, he was scrupulous in defending the team in public, as in his comments that they lost because " they were getting in comfortable positions defensively" (instead of the hard work needed to succeed). No one could say he was pointing at a particular player, although they all knew who he meant. I think the biggest problem with Nelsen was that he couldn't figure out how to use Bradley, with his prodigious work rate but desire to do it all, which often left the defence exposed. Warner's acquisition was designed to address this, but didn't.

MightyDM
10-30-2014, 01:15 PM
LT didn't get his way on the Argos. And that strain thing has yet to be seen in what is happening within MLSE.

LT is not in control.

yup, he isn't. But he is enough in control to get rid of Tim.

gdg_9
10-30-2014, 02:08 PM
the amount of people on here with inside info is staggering. I am not doubting anyones legitamcy for one second, but it's crazy the amount of people popping up with "sources" info. Add this to reporters, bloggers etc who also have the inside scoop- it's insane really.I can't recall any club team I have supported both professional and semi pro ever having this many leaks. Either the front office is more porous than my colander, or people on here have very influential friends, maybe bit of both........


Here's the thing, "inside information" is everywhere with this team, you don't even have to go looking for it. I used to live down by the stadium, and I'd fairly routinely come across stuff. Check your PM's, I send you a couple of examples which I don't really want to post publicly, but don't mind sharing via PM.

There's probably a few reasons for this...
First, the competitive organized soccer community is smaller and tighter than many other sports in Ontario.
A lot of hardcore TFC fans are involved in the soccer community in some way, and thus connections are inevitable.

That doesn't happen as often in some other sports.
Your average Leafs fan has no real connection to the actual hockey scene in Ontario.
They aren't directly involved with a junior team or provincial youth hockey association the way many TFC fans are involved in Ontario's soccer world.

The other factor is that most TFC players (and most other people involved with the team) are closer to the average person in Toronto than your typical multi-millionaire athletes in other pro sports.
They live in and are part of the same communities as their fans.

A TFC players might get their hair cut at the same shitty Top-Cuts you go to.
A trainer may be a regular at the same divey restaurant you frequent.
A player might live in a tiny one bedroom condo in the same building as you...

Basically, there are more opportunities for the lives of TFC people to intersect those of the average TFC fan compared the uber-rich athletes of other pro sports, driving their lambos home to the Bridlepath.


I've run into many TFC players and coaches all over town... I've very rarely run into any Leafs or Jays.

brad
10-30-2014, 02:40 PM
There's probably a few reasons for this...
First, the competitive organized soccer community is smaller and tighter than many other sports in Ontario.
A lot of hardcore TFC fans are involved in the soccer community in some way, and thus connections are inevitable.

Not the case for me. This stuff always came through channels unrelated to the soccer community.


The other factor is that most TFC players (and most other people involved with the team) are closer to the average person in Toronto than your typical multi-millionaire athletes in other pro sports.
They live in and are part of the same communities as their fans.

A TFC players might get their hair cut at the same shitty Top-Cuts you go to.
A trainer may be a regular at the same divey restaurant you frequent.
A player might live in a tiny one bedroom condo in the same building as you...

Basically, there are more opportunities for the lives of TFC people to intersect those of the average TFC fan compared the uber-rich athletes of other pro sports, driving their lambos home to the Bridlepath.


I've run into many TFC players and coaches all over town... I've very rarely run into any Leafs or Jays.

This second part though, 100% true (for me at least).

C.Ronaldo
10-30-2014, 03:17 PM
I've run into many TFC players and coaches all over town... I've very rarely run into any Leafs or Jays.

Good point

I have never run into a Jay now that you mention it.
Leafs once or twice, Raptors more so in night clubs when I was younger, TFC & Argos at the local Metro,Ikea, and gym lol