Matchday 34: TFC at New Englnd Sat., 7:30pm

[Leedsoronto]

V New England

not that it matters league wise, but it would be nice to go out with a win

[MartinUtd]

But just in case you're worried about missing out on all the other action in the world of sport, here are a few others that are playing at the same time:


O Higgins vs. Huachipatocl (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=287904&part=sports)

Luverdense vs. Oestebr (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=286390&part=sports)

Vila Nova FC vs. Sampaio Correa (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=286391&part=sports)

IJF Judo World Junior Championships (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=288118&part=sports)

International Snooker Championship (http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=288121&part=sports)

[kodiakTFC]

I'll actually be at the Montreal Impact game for work. So I suppose my season has one game left.

[prizby]

V New England

not that it matters league wise, but it would be nice to go out with a win

or hope houston wins, we lose, and improve our draft position

[bones]

And everyone should be a San Jose fan too. We have to get Chivas as low as possible for our 1st pick. Damn Limpact tie was the worst outcome possible as they will have 3rd overall pick now.

[ensco]

Yes. Bale is out. But Ramos is fit.

[brad]

or hope houston wins, we lose, and improve our draft position

This post sums up everything I hate about the draft system. It is now in out teams best interest not to win. That should never be the case.

[zeelaw]

I would love to have prom/rel in this league. Not that it effects us now.

[OgtheDim]

And DeRo is suspended.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This post sums up everything I hate about the draft system. It is now in out teams best interest not to win. That should never be the case.

http://makeameme.org/media/created/i-couldnt-agree.jpg

[Fort York Redcoat]

Last game of the season. Of course I'll be watching. Of course I'll be down at Joe's.

[OgtheDim]

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/525321465642885120) Vanney says hagglund won't play Saturday. #tfc (https://twitter.com/hashtag/tfc?src=hash)

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 8m8 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/525321114885840896)
Vanney says Bradley will be fit to play Saturday. #tfc (https://twitter.com/hashtag/tfc?src=hash)

[Initial B]

The way I see it, this is a game that will be a proving ground to those players on the fringe - who wants to stay around badly enough and will play their hearts out? Regardless, it won't be enough as NER will be fine-tuning their roster with an eye to the playoffs. I forsee a NER win or a 0-0 draw.

[ensco]

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 8m8 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/525321114885840896)
Vanney says Bradley will be fit to play Saturday. #tfc (https://twitter.com/hashtag/tfc?src=hash)

Jesus H Christ, everybody is out but Bradley? And Vanney wants to play him? On that astroturf? In a totally meaningless game?

What the hell does Bez think his job is?

Bradley's job in life is not to take stupid career risks in order to help Vanney keep his job.

Bradley had better tear a hangnail between now and Saturday.

No wonder Klinsmann is pissed.

[Yohan]

Jesus H Christ, everybody is out but Bradley? And Vanney wants to play him? On that astroturf? In a totally meaningless game?

What the hell does Bez think his job is?

Bradley's job in life is not to take stupid career risks in order to help Vanney keep his job.

Bradley had better tear a hangnail between now and Saturday.

No wonder Klinsmann is pissed.
Bez is grasping at any straw to present a positive light. At least with a win, he can say 'look, our pts total is better than previous best, so we are on right track'.

Dude knows he's on a very short leash. And he's playing the politician game to the max. In a lot of ways, he's worse than Mo Johnston

[Initial B]

Bez is grasping at any straw to present a positive light. At least with a win, he can say 'look, our pts total is better than previous best, so we are on right track'.
No, he can't. Even if they win, their points-per-game stat is still worse than 2009 (1.3 ppg). Even if they win in NE they can't beat that number. It's a shame with all that talent that they still couldn't beat the high-water mark for the club.

[brad]

No, he can't. Even if they win, their points-per-game stat is still worse than 2009 (1.3 ppg). Even if they win in NE they can't beat that number. It's a shame with all that talent that they still couldn't beat the high-water mark for the club.

The average person won't dig into that. Highest total points will go on the marketing material.

[OgtheDim]

In the States, this is being sold as Jones vs. Bradley.

He's going to play people.

This is life with a big US MNT DP. Get used to it.

He's not just ours.

[jazzy]

Jesus H Christ, everybody is out but Bradley? And Vanney wants to play him? On that astroturf? In a totally meaningless game?

What the hell does Bez think his job is?

Bradley's job in life is not to take stupid career risks in order to help Vanney keep his job.

Bradley had better tear a hangnail between now and Saturday.

No wonder Klinsmann is pissed.


:thumbsup:.........and who are backing him the academy.....whats left?

[jloome]

:thumbsup:.........and who are backing him the academy.....whats left?

Nguyen is sitting, apparently. No point risking him with the playoffs coming up.

[Areathrasher]

In the States, this is being sold as Jones vs. Bradley.

He's going to play people.

This is life with a big US MNT DP. Get used to it.

He's not just ours.

Yup, Revs have sold over 30,000 tickets for it and may open the upper decks at Foxboro for it.

From an optics point of view, they cant give Bradley the game off. It would look too bad given the Defoe situation IMO.

[Fort York Redcoat]

No, he can't. Even if they win, their points-per-game stat is still worse than 2009 (1.3 ppg). Even if they win in NE they can't beat that number. It's a shame with all that talent that they still couldn't beat the high-water mark for the club.

You're really into that points per game. It didn't help us in the standings that year and that's how I mark the club. The record is the record. If its the best total so be it. We just all take away from it with how much they had to spend to still not do enough.

[Ivy]

Yup, Revs have sold over 30,000 tickets for it and may open the upper decks at Foxboro for it.

From an optics point of view, they cant give Bradley the game off. It would look too bad given the Defoe situation IMO.
30k people are going to watch 2 bench warmer squads + bradley vs jones.

[Initial B]

You're really into that points per game. It didn't help us in the standings that year and that's how I mark the club. The record is the record. If its the best total so be it. We just all take away from it with how much they had to spend to still not do enough.
It didn't help us in the standings this year, either. I guess I do have an agenda - I don't want anything (such as saying this was their best season ever) to be able to gloss over the terrible job that TFC management has done this season. I want to see them called out at next week's press conferences and held accountable for their actions, if only for my own catharisis after dealing with this season.

I do wonder if TFC 2009 would have won more if there were an extra 4 games that season instead of 30.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It didn't help us in the standings this year, either. I guess I do have an agenda - I don't want anything (such as saying this was their best season ever) to be able to gloss over the terrible job that TFC management has done this season. I want to see them called out at next week's press conferences and held accountable for their actions, if only for my own catharisis after dealing with this season.

I do wonder if TFC 2009 would have won more if there were an extra 4 games that season instead of 30.

I wouldn't worry about it, mate. Them getting the most points ever in their spotted history isn't going to unbreak the promise they made to us about playoffs.

[Oldtimer]

Bez is grasping at any straw to present a positive light. At least with a win, he can say 'look, our pts total is better than previous best, so we are on right track'.

Dude knows he's on a very short leash. And he's playing the politician game to the max. In a lot of ways, he's worse than Mo Johnston

Now saying that is just plain cruel. Plus I'd be hard-pressed to imagine anyone in North American footy more slimy than old Judas (or have you forgotten that old Celtic/Rangers thing?). Plus I doubt that some of the corrupt things whispered about Mo would apply to Bez. Political? You have to be to be a GM. Show me one that isn't (unless he's just a capologist and contracts guy like Lagerway at RSL).

http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/soccer/tfc/2010/09/14/toronto_fc_cleans_house_fires_mo_johnston_and_prek i/mojohnston.jpeg.size.xxlarge.letterbox.jpeg

[cmonyoureds]

Reason to go to this game? Maybe you'll get to hold the board and stand between the coaches!!!

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/10/referee-suspended-arrest.html

Needed, 4th official for this game.
Imagine that. A referee involved in a fraud scandal.

[ag futbol]

Yup, Revs have sold over 30,000 tickets for it and may open the upper decks at Foxboro for it.

From an optics point of view, they cant give Bradley the game off. It would look too bad given the Defoe situation IMO.
That should be their problem. MLS has to decide whether it wants to be a real league or a David Beeckham tour style dog and pony show.

You buy a ticket to a meaningless last game of the regular season, you get what you get.


Now saying that is just plain cruel. Plus I'd be hard-pressed to imagine anyone in North American footy more slimy than old Judas (or have you forgotten that old Celtic/Rangers thing?). Plus I doubt that some of the corrupt things whispered about Mo would apply to Bez. Political? You have to be to be a GM. Show me one that isn't (unless he's just a capologist and contracts guy like Lagerway at RSL).

http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/soccer/tfc/2010/09/14/toronto_fc_cleans_house_fires_mo_johnston_and_prek i/mojohnston.jpeg.size.xxlarge.letterbox.jpeg
How on earth are we reasoning Legerway to be "just a capologist", especially if the comparison is basically an inferior version of the same thing?

[Areathrasher]

That should be their problem. MLS has to decide whether it wants to be a real league or a David Beeckham tour style dog and pony show.

You buy a ticket to a meaningless last game of the regular season, you get what you get.




I wasn't saying that he has to play because the Revs sold 30,000 tickets but from a TFC optics pov.

Given Bradley hasn't trained all week due to Doctors appointments if he didn't play on Saturday you don't think that some of the fan base would be rushing to conclusions and there would be more speculation and controversy?

[ag futbol]

Yup, Revs have sold over 30,000 tickets for it and may open the upper decks at Foxboro for it.

From an optics point of view, they cant give Bradley the game off. It would look too bad given the Defoe situation IMO.


I wasn't saying that he has to play because the Revs sold 30,000 tickets but from a TFC optics pov.

Given Bradley hasn't trained all week due to Doctors appointments if he didn't play on Saturday you don't think that some of the fan base would be rushing to conclusions and there would be more speculation and controversy?
Not suggesting you're onside with it, just venting my fustration.

You'd be surprised how dumb the crowd can be when the single focus of marketing is a couple of stars without regard for the game / league itself. Fans outside toronto booed / were hugely upset when they showed up and David Beckham couldn't play due to injury. Nothing MLS could do, they marketed the game in advance and becks was injured after. The under intelligent masses did not care.

[Pookie]

In the States, this is being sold as Jones vs. Bradley.

He's going to play people.

This is life with a big US MNT DP. Get used to it.

He's not just ours.

I'm not sure about that. On the Revs official site there is barely a word about Bradley. If they get 30,000 tickets it would be impressive but New England's highest attended game is usually "Fan Appreciation" night, the last game of the season. They routinely draw over 25k to it usually with no names to play against. NE's last home game drew over 26,000.

[OgtheDim]

I stand corrected.

[notthesun]

------------------Konopka----------------
Bloom--------Henry-----Richter---Morgan
De Rosario--Mannella---Hall--------Lovitz
------------Dike--Wiedeman--------------

My preferred starting lineup. And yes I'm aware very little of this will happen. For once I'd like us to give kids/fringe players a chance when we're playing meaningless games.

[jloome]

------------------Konopka----------------
Bloom--------Henry-----Richter---Morgan
De Rosario--Mannella---Hall--------Lovitz
------------Dike--Wiedeman--------------

My preferred starting lineup. And yes I'm aware very little of this will happen. For once I'd like us to give kids/fringe players a chance when we're playing meaningless games.

Well, Richter's out on loan, Manella is a defender and De Rosario is suspended. I think Hall might be on loan technically still too.

[notthesun]

Well, Richter's out on loan, Manella is a defender and De Rosario is suspended. I think Hall might be on loan technically still too.

I thought Mannella was a defensive mid? I put him down as a CB at first then had second thoughts, checked the team website and he's listed as a midfielder...

I don't know Hall's status, I think Aparicio is ineligible because of his loan so I left him out but I thought Hall would be ok. Anyways, I'd like to see a bunch of people I've barely seen is my point.

[jloome]

I thought Mannella was a defensive mid? I put him down as a CB at first then had second thoughts, checked the team website and he's listed as a midfielder...

I don't know Hall's status, I think Aparicio is ineligible because of his loan so I left him out but I thought Hall would be ok. Anyways, I'd like to see a bunch of people I've barely seen is my point.

I thought Manella was a center back? Maybe they're turning him into a DM? Or maybe I'm wrong.

Good to see the kids though if possible.

[molenshtain]

I thought Manella was a center back? Maybe they're turning him into a DM? Or maybe I'm wrong.

Good to see the kids though if possible.

I think he plays both positions fairly well.

[Leedsoronto]

Yes he does play both positions well, plus he can play right back lol, just to confuse U all. So what if the fringe players win? What will that say about the regular team efforts for the year. ��

[FRANKIE65]

I noticed TSN switched the game to TSN2...bastards. I know it doesn't mean anything, but, it is LAST game! Guess I'm watching the Leafs/Bruins.

[mowe]

It's funny, NE has nothing to play for, if we just beat Houston and Montreal we would've had a legit shot at making the playoffs. NY would be one point ahead of us and they play at SKC. A draw could potentially have been enough for us.

I know it's pointless to think about this stuff, but it just kills me how close were this year. When it mattered, couldn't beat 2 of the 3 worst teams in the East at home.

[Defoe]

It will be interesting to see what what the TV numbers are tonight for New England and Boston Bruins. There hockey and soccer team are playing at the same time vs the same city.

[FRANKIE65]

Anybody have a site/link for online viewing since TSN is showing CFhell?!

[mowe]

Anybody have a site/link for online viewing since TSN is showing CFhell?!

VLC stream: http://nlds43.cdnak.neulion.com/nlds/mls/newenglandrevolution/as/live/newenglandrevolution_hd_4500.m3u8

Instructions: http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/2j231s/match_thread_fc_dallas_vs_la_galaxy_700pm_et/cl7or6a

[MightyDM]

It's funny, NE has nothing to play for, if we just beat Houston and Montreal we would've had a legit shot at making the playoffs. NY would be one point ahead of us and they play at SKC. A draw could potentially have been enough for us.

I know it's pointless to think about this stuff, but it just kills me how close were this year. When it mattered, couldn't beat 2 of the 3 worst teams in the East at home.

losing back to back to Philly sure didn't help either

[Mark TFC]

Lovitz up front on the left flank tonight - this could be interesting. He's a decent winger, and it doesn't hurt to try something new at this point.

[Mark TFC]

I noticed TSN switched the game to TSN2...bastards. I know it doesn't mean anything, but, it is LAST game! Guess I'm watching the Leafs/Bruins.

http://cricfree.sx/tsn-2-live-stream.php

[OgtheDim]

4-3-3?

[Mark TFC]

4-3-3?

Yep! Gilberto in the middle, Lovitz on the left, Uduro on the right.

[Mark TFC]

Gillette Stadium is fucking disgusting to look at. Probably shit to play on too.

[mcolvy]

Gillette Stadium is fucking disgusting to look at. Probably shit to play on too.


Is anyone else having problems with this TSN feed? It is so jumpy...

[Mark TFC]

Is anyone else having problems with this TSN feed? It is so jumpy...


The feed is running smoothly - it's just uncrisp and pixelated-y.

[Qman]

It will be interesting to see what what the TV numbers are tonight for New England and Boston Bruins. There hockey and soccer team are playing at the same time vs the same city.

US television numbers for MLS are even worst than TFC does.

[Mark TFC]

US television numbers for MLS are even worst than TFC does.

What exactly does that mean?

[Auzzy]

MLS Live stream just died for me. Anybody else?

[Auzzy]

"We are experiencing technical difficulties, please stand by." Crap MLS Live

[portu]

Thats y we keep Gil

[Yohan]

Gilberto ninja kick off the cross bar. that was out of nothing

[Mark TFC]

"We are experiencing technical difficulties, please stand by." Crap MLS Live

http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=279427&part=sports

[flamehawk]

MLS Live stream just died for me. Anybody else?

it's back on

[OgtheDim]

Gilberto.....oooooooo.

[Mark TFC]

Thats y we keep Gil

We keep Gilberto for lots of reasons; he can do that, he actually wants to play (and for 90+ minutes), and he wants to be here (and has always shown lots of respect to the supporters). Gilberto is in a league of his own, someone who other players should use as an example.

[mook-life]

The field in new England is gross, football lines =fail

[portu]

We've looked surprisingly good so far, Bradley holding and Gil playing the point pretty decently

Edit: also football lines in this league should be banned outright

[Hamilton_Red]

Just picture the argos logo in place of the Pats logo for a look into #tfc's future. They sure as fuck aren't adding 8,000 seats for soccer fans!

[Mark TFC]

We've looked surprisingly good so far, Bradley holding and Gil playing the point pretty decently

Edit: also football lines in this league should be banned outright

Yeah, probably because there's no pressure to deal with. We can handle no pressure... ugh!

[QBall]

The play on both sides is a bit uninspired.

[shwade]

Has the energy of a friendly. But 4-3-3 is linking up nice

[mook-life]

I would puke if there was a giant argos logo and football lines at bmo I hope the Fo is watching and realizes how back this looks

[QBall]

Has the energy of a friendly. But 4-3-3 is linking up nice

Yeah, a friendly or a training session. No real sense of urgency.

[Mark TFC]

I would puke if there was a giant argos logo and football lines at bmo I hope the Fo is watching and realizes how back this looks

Like they give a shit about that. We know all too well that money is all that matters to this organization.

[Mark TFC]

Why the fuck does Caldwell always stick his arms out like that?!

[Yohan]

Has the energy of a friendly. But 4-3-3 is linking up nice
add in a proper AM playmaker instead of Bekker...

[QBall]

Why the fuck does Caldwell always stick his arms out like that?!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIQn8pab8Vc

[portu]

Don't give a shit that they scored, or that it was undeserved, I just love that the boys are still fighting the refs on every call

[flamehawk]

hahahahahahahahahah

[Mark TFC]

Sideline ref had his flag up for offside and they let the play go on anyway. Typical bullshit MLS "refereeing".

[OgtheDim]

CRAP MLSE reffing....again.

[QBall]

What the fuck? First he's offside, then he's not? Brilliant MLS officiating.

[Chevy]

BREAKING: Tim Bezbatchenko announces that TFC has signed Cherry Beach U-7 House League coach Soupy Sales to instruct the squad on "Playing to the whistle".

[SKB]

Terrible call, way offside. Not even close

[mook-life]

Why the fuck does Caldwell always stick his arms out like that?!



Watchin Caldwell defend is terrifying footy wise but I bet he'd be great for the leafs

[Mark TFC]

Watchin Caldwell defend is terrifying footy wise but I bet he'd be great for the leafs

Why not give him a shot in the offseason?

[jloome]

Terrible call, way offside. Not even close

The arrogance of Paul Mariner.
"This isn't working (433). Not for me."

Wow, the worst coach we ever had doesn't like it. That's a thumbs up to Vanney, as I see it.

[portu]

I swear to God its that black cat from CCL

[Auzzy]

Wow commentary from Mariner, painful. Muted now.

What a garbage goal, unbelievable.

[notthesun]

Who was it that said we've actually benifeted more than been hurt by officiating this year? LOL

[jloome]

Mariner thinks the 433 isn't working. Meanwhile, Jay Heaps: "All credit to Toronto they were better than us" until the blown call.

[Leedsoronto]

Watchin Caldwell defend is terrifying footy wise but I bet he'd be great for the leafs

He cant, he been booked for the winter as an arm waving air filled tube man outside of a Burger King ��

[OgtheDim]

BREAKING: Tim Bezbatchenko announces that TFC has signed Cherry Beach U-7 House League coach Soupy Sales to instruct the squad on "Playing to the whistle".


No.

At that level, you don't expect that crap a call.


This isn't hockey.

[SKB]

Like the 4 3 3, much more entertaining to watch, although we lack the midfield to really make this work.

[FRANKIE65]

Thanks for the links guys found it. Once again we get :sheep::sheep::sheep:by a ref.

[OgtheDim]

Mariner thinks the 433 isn't working. ...


At least he's consistent in his lack of understanding of tactics.


Working well actually. Just we don't have a legitimate DM style mid of the 3.

And Bekker is a bit of a pylon.

[jloome]

At least he's consistent in his lack of understanding of tactics.


Working well actually. Just we don't have a legitimate DM style mid of the 3.

And Bekker is a bit of a pylon.

Not today! He's been hustling today defensively.

[Auzzy]

At least he's consistent in his lack of understanding of tactics.


Working well actually. Just we don't have a legitimate DM style mid of the 3.

And Bekker is a bit of a pylon.


Not today! He's been hustling today defensively.

Well a bit of both. Yes Bekker is hustling much more today that is usual for him. But I've seen him mess up a bunch of nice combination plays by others, because he just thinks too slow, and never knows where his teammates are before he receives the ball.

[jloome]

Well a bit of both. Yes Bekker is hustling much more today that is usual for him. But I've seen him mess up a bunch of nice combination plays by others, because he just thinks too slow, and never knows where his teammates are before he receives the ball.

Yeah, just noticed the same thing. He didn't drift into the ideal space to offer Bradley and option and he was forced to go all the way back to the defense.

[Yohan]

hrm. did Oduro head the ball? if yes, then the goal is legit. still doesn't excuse AR from sucking though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKmOv6m0gZk&list=UUSZbXT5TLLW_i-5W8FZpFsg

edit: it's a good goal. Oduro heads the ball deliberately. see 2nd replay

[jloome]

OMIGOD, he just carded the wrong player. Fucking awful officiating. Embarrassing.

[AdamAM]

even though we get such shit calls against us time and time again I admire Bradley still giving 100% and not babying out

[Auzzy]

OMIGOD, he just carded the wrong player. Fucking awful officiating. Embarrassing.

I missed that, what happened?

[Auzzy]

Oh wow, Morrow streaking down the left side, all open, Bekker has no clue, dribbles around & passes back to Caldwell.

[jloome]

I missed that, what happened?

Lovitz pulled down one of the New England players as he was going by, and Morrow was standing just ahead of them, and he carded Morrow instead of Lovitz.

[Voodooman]

Got lucky we didnt get called for the handball there.

Seems like NE is really close to getting a 2nd goal here. Need to shut this pressure down

[Auzzy]

Well that was the make-up call for the NE goal. Should have been a PK. Caldwell you fuckwit, keep your goddam hands down!!!

[OgtheDim]

hrm. did Oduro head the ball? if yes, then the goal is legit. still doesn't excuse AR from sucking though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKmOv6m0gZk&list=UUSZbXT5TLLW_i-5W8FZpFsg

edit: it's a good goal. Oduro heads the ball deliberately. see 2nd replay

Doesn't matter. Guy's in an offside position when the pass is made.

[flamehawk]

hrm. did Oduro head the ball? if yes, then the goal is legit. still doesn't excuse AR from sucking though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKmOv6m0gZk&list=UUSZbXT5TLLW_i-5W8FZpFsg

edit: it's a good goal. Oduro heads the ball deliberately. see 2nd replay

I thought the rule was that you still had to be onside during the initial pass .. if it gets deflected or headed back by the defender after the initial pass and you had run into an offside position, then you're still good

[jloome]

Well that was the make-up call for the NE goal. Should have been a PK. Caldwell you fuckwit, keep your goddam hands down!!!

Why? Why does he do that? It's baffling.

[RealG-TFC]

Oduro cannot dribble for beans.

[notthesun]

Oduro deflection doesn't matter. Even De Vos has said as much and you know he's bag on TFC if he could

[OgtheDim]

I'd like to see this 4-3-3 with a right winger who actually moves around rather then waiting for the ball, a decent DM type and a decent AM type.

Osorio might be the AM type. Oduro is not the winger. And Morrow is not the DM.

[OgtheDim]

Good to see Davies shaking hands with Caldwell and Henry on his way off.

I wonder if we could pry him out of NER. We need a banger up top (and Dike doesn't seem to be wanted).

[Yohan]

I thought the rule was that you still had to be onside during the initial pass .. if it gets deflected or headed back by the defender after the initial pass and you had run into an offside position, then you're still good
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/36/01/11/27_06_2014_new--lawsofthegameweben_neutral.pdf


A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage.

Page 108, Law 11

Oduro deliberately headed the ball

[Yohan]

Good to see Davies shaking hands with Caldwell and Henry on his way off.

I wonder if we could pry him out of NER. We need a banger up top (and Dike doesn't seem to be wanted).
the twat taunted 112 couple of years ago when he played for DC when celebrating his goal

[flamehawk]

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/36/01/11/27_06_2014_new--lawsofthegameweben_neutral.pdf


A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage.


Page 108, Law 11

Oduro deliberately headed the ball


Guess I am wrong.

[jloome]

Oh wow, Morrow streaking down the left side, all open, Bekker has no clue, dribbles around & passes back to Caldwell.

Man, you're right. When he works harder, his movement just gets more clueless. No idea where to move to make space.

[Auzzy]

Gold from Twitter:



Duncan Fletcher ‏@DuncanDFletcher (https://twitter.com/DuncanDFletcher) 16m16 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DuncanDFletcher/status/526178754515968000)
ladies and gentleman, steven caldwell. from @torontosubbuteo (https://twitter.com/torontosubbuteo)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/By4WYjJIUAEhyLu.jpg

[flamehawk]

Are we trying to make sure that we have a higher draft pick?


We're ending the season on such a whimper .... and looks like we won't even be giving Manella a shot..

[Auzzy]

Paul Mariner, there's your guy, time to start praising TFC & Wiedeman!

[Lumpy]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way

Dickens

[Red CB Toronto]

And Thats A Wrap ...

[MightyDM]

hrm. did Oduro head the ball? if yes, then the goal is legit. still doesn't excuse AR from sucking though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKmOv6m0gZk&list=UUSZbXT5TLLW_i-5W8FZpFsg

edit: it's a good goal. Oduro heads the ball deliberately. see 2nd replay

Dont be ridiculous. The player was offside well before the touch. Flag up. Typical MLS shitshow. Do you actually support this club or are you on here just to bait us?

[Yohan]

Dont be ridiculous. The player was offside well before the touch. Flag up. Typical MLS shitshow. Do you actually support this club or are you on here just to bait us?
read the rules

[MightyDM]

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/36/01/11/27_06_2014_new--lawsofthegameweben_neutral.pdf


A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage.


Page 108, Law 11

Oduro deliberately headed the ball

thats a bollocks interpretation of that rule. The rule means if you pass it to a guy in an offside position - like a back pass - not if you try to block it. Come on.

[Auzzy]

Yohan, all of Twitter disagrees with you, including some very knowledgeable people...

[MightyDM]

read the rules

Seriously, have you ever played, refereed, coached, and/or attended a game? There is not even an issue there, that is not what the rule means at all. Look up the offside rule and quote that. You will see why you are wrong.

[billyfly]

Mercifully the end!

[Yohan]

thats a bollocks interpretation of that rule. The rule means if you pass it to a guy in an offside position - like a back pass - not if you try to block it. Come on.
Oduro is making a deliberate attempt on the ball. it's like heading as a pass. just my interpretation

[Red CB Toronto]

It is the end my friend.

[OgtheDim]

read the rules


Ur opinion depends on the interpretation of whether Oduro meant to head the ball.


99.99% of the time, that is called.

And when the flag goes up, players expect that call to be made.

Most will disagree with you. You might....might....be giving Salazar an out.

He doesn't deserve it.

You are entitled to your opinion on this.

But you are wrong

In my eyes.

In the eyes of others on here.


And the eyes of most people watching that game, including every single person on the TV and the pundits on twitter.

[SirBobSaget]

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/36/01/11/27_06_2014_new--lawsofthegameweben_neutral.pdf


A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage.


Page 108, Law 11

Oduro deliberately headed the ball

\isn't he offside \9and thats when the play stops) the moment the ball leaves the passers foot, so doesn't matter that Oduro touched it.

[MightyDM]

Oduro is making a deliberate attempt on the ball. it's like heading as a pass. just my interpretation

It is possible to read the rule that way. It's just that no one, in the history of this sport, in millions of games, has. That's all.

[MightyDM]

But. We deserved to lose. I like Vanney, as a person, but not a convincing start. Worse than every other interim coach we have ever had.

[Yohan]

It is possible to read the rule that way. It's just that no one, in the history of this sport, in millions of games, has. That's all.
did you think this goal was offside too? IMO pretty much identical play


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ani9Wkx-TE

[v00d00daddy]

I think it's fitting that the season ends with Caldwell getting away with an obvious hand ball.

It helped us early in the season. So much so we thought we were good. 30+ games later the truth is seen.

We are BY FAR the worst team in this league since we joined it. That's shameful.

Lets make super Caldwell captain again. Lol

[Mark TFC]

^ Dude, stop "supporting" this club. It makes you look really bad when it causes you such apparent grief. I mean, all this bitching and shit talking, yet you're still here. ^

[OgtheDim]

Shit call changed everything.

BUT


Defence was shaky and probably should have given up at least one more including a stone cold penalty.

Both Morrow and Bloom had an awful game; can we blame the sidelines? Not up to their usual standards.

Bendik played well, with a couple of great saves. The Joe Bendik project continues.

Caldwell - either he stops his hands in the air thing or he goes. Oh, who am I kidding, he goes. Nice guy, but we should get in a couple of CD's who will be here for another 4-7 years.

Henry - athletic as usual but really nothing to write home about. Still not great passing the ball (mind you, nobody gave him much to pass at). Hope he learns to pass better whereever he goes. If he stays around, he HAS to step up better. He let guys go past him on that one play where they had a 2 on none - it was shocking and unprofessional.

Bradley does better in the 4-3-3. Need to stick to that or a 4-2-3-1. Some great passes, and some really bad ones. Kinda like the World Cup for him and Jones (who is a beast - he and Nguyen should take this team to the final).

Bekker - tries hard but is timid and can't pass. Not physical enough for this league, I think. And not good enough at finding space. #2 AM if we get a DM.

Warner - needs better midfielders to hide his shortcomings. A #2 DM for next season.

Oduro - useless when people play behind him. A defensive liability. Can't pass, can't shoot, can't cross. He's a one trick pony - speed that requires service. Let him go, please.

Lovitz - for a rookie, not bad. But NER nullified his speed by playing deep. That means he needs to find spaces - he doesn't do that yet. A project worth continuing but I'd like to see him pushed by somebody other then Jackson for that spot.

Gilberto - runs around everywhere but never quite gets there. Man would be great if/when we get a decent attacking playmaker type.


Vanney tried something. Tactically, we got it right. But, the ability to find spaces is so lacking on this team, the 4-3-3 deflated in the second half. Should have subbed Oduro on the 60. Then, the return to 4-4-2 didn't work.

Moore runs around and might settle in as a decent forward but he's not a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 type forward. Needs to adjust or be let go.


All in all, if we consider this a preseason game for next season, I'd say that was a start but we need a number of changes to force teams like NER to step up a bit.

[MightyDM]

did you think this goal was offside too? IMO pretty much identical play


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ani9Wkx-TE

exactly proves our point. When the ball was kicked by Bernier, Hutchison was onside. When the ball was kicked by the American, he (Hutchison) was in an offside position but for the rule you quote.

that is different than today, where the NE player was offside when the ball was kicked originally. It then does not matter because the offside rule says you can not gain an advantage by being offside. It's as if in this replay Hutchison was standing in front of the goal keeper when the ball was kicked.

i am sorry, but you are wildly off base here. Routine call every where in the world, except MLS.

on the other hand, so was the hand ball against Caldwell.

[ensco]

I think it's fitting that the season ends with Caldwell getting away with an obvious hand ball.

It helped us early in the season. So much so we thought we were good. 30+ games later the truth is seen.

We are BY FAR the worst team in this league since we joined it. That's shameful.

Lets make super Caldwell captain again. Lol

I'm upset too, but this is wrong.

Last year's team will never be topped in the "worst TFC team ever" derby. I mean, last by 10 points, they retired that wooden spoon!

[Blizzard]

Just picture the argos logo in place of the Pats logo for a look into #tfc's future. They sure as fuck aren't adding 8,000 seats for soccer fans!

Of course TFC won't be playing back to back games with the Argos. The Pats are at home tomorrow vs. the Bears.

[v00d00daddy]

^ Dude, stop "supporting" this club. It makes you look really bad when it causes you such apparent grief. I mean, all this bitching and shit talking, yet you're still here. ^

Here we go again with "support" shit talk.

Thanks for for sounding like people for the last 6 years.

The he club looks bad. Not those of us who follow them.

I have every reason to bitch and shit talk. They've given us many reasons for a long time. If you wanna push the frustration they put in to you, on to me...feel free.

But that won't stop me from calling out those at fault. And that's the club and all those who refuse to see our shortcomings.

[notthesun]

did you think this goal was offside too? IMO pretty much identical play



Hutchinson was onside when the initial ball was played...

[v00d00daddy]

I'm upset too, but this is wrong.

Last year's team will never be topped in the "worst TFC team ever" derby. I mean, last by 10 points, they retired that wooden spoon!

Lol sorry I should have been more clear. I didn't mean this seasons team is the worst ever. I just meant that since 2007 we are the worst, in general. By far.

[OgtheDim]

Lol sorry I should have been more clear. I didn't mean this seasons team is the worst ever. I just meant that since 2007 we are the worst, in general. By far.

Yes, we all know that.

What's that got to do with the price of cheese?

[Blizzard]

Oduro deflection doesn't matter. Even De Vos has said as much and you know he's bag on TFC if he could

According to Greg Sutton, PM and he looked at each other after the HT whistle and PM made the offside signal to Sutts.

Of course it was offside.

If TFC had gained control off the ball and passed it back to a Revs player in an offside position, that would NOT be offside. It was a deflection. Yohan, a deflection is not the same as an intentional pass.

If it were, we'd have players going offside all the time with teammates trying to bounce the ball off defenders legs.

[69Chevy396]

I am glad its over. This has been, by far, the most disappointing season. Defoe was and is, grossly overrated. There are a dozen better strikers in MLS, and most want to play. Bradley is a glorified J DeGuzman. No offence at all. Gilberto is a good. All the remaining players are expendable, none are good enough to start on a playoff bound team. What a fucking joke.

[Yohan]

According to Greg Sutton, PM and he looked at each other after the HT whistle and PM made the offside signal to Sutts.

Of course it was offside.

If TFC had gained control off the ball and passed it back to a Revs player in an offside position, that would be offside. It was a deflection. Yohan, a deflection is not the same as an intentional pass.

If it were, we'd have players going offside all the time with teammates trying to bounce the ball off defenders legs.
again, I argue that Oduro was making a deliberate attempt at the ball, thus not a deflection. Deflection to me is unintentional. Oduro was making a clear effort to head the ball.

Anyways, there is this presentation, for more food for thought (esp slide 25)
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf

[Leedsoronto]

If it were, we'd have players going offside all the time with teammates trying to bounce the ball off defenders legs.

This could be a game plan when we see this ref on the opposing team sheet, oops I mean officials list

[Blizzard]

again, I argue that Oduro was making a deliberate attempt at the ball, thus not a deflection. Deflection to me is unintentional. Oduro was making a clear effort to head the ball.

Anyways, there is this presentation, for more food for thought (esp slide 25)
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf

Just to clarify, I left out NOT re a TFC backpass. The TFC possession would have, for all intents and purposes, re-set the play in that respect. A deflection is not possession.

I'm not sure how slide 25 helps your cause in this discussion.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab167/greenfield267/OffsideRule.jpg (http://s860.photobucket.com/user/greenfield267/media/OffsideRule.jpg.html)

[ensco]

Lol sorry I should have been more clear. I didn't mean this seasons team is the worst ever. I just meant that since 2007 we are the worst, in general. By far.

Oh yeah, that is beyond debate.

The interesting question is, are we the worst team in world football in that stretch? That'd be an interesting offseason thread. I used to think RC Strasbourg were worse, but now, I don't know. (They went from Ligue 1 to the 4th division in 4 years from 2008-2011, but have since been promoted, and are now a decent 3rd division team).

[jazzy]

Not today! He's been hustling today defensively.

and crap offensively............tired of so so talent in the midfield , we carry the ball to long and lose it , then we kick it to no one (Bekker) and lose it....horrendous to watch ...tired of wearing blinkers just because they are my team ,....esp after watching a real game with Van.......they make us look sick........can't hate them their team is moving forward and by far the best in Canada.....

[jazzy]

I'd like to see this 4-3-3 with a right winger who actually moves around rather then waiting for the ball, a decent DM type and a decent AM type.

Osorio might be the AM type. Oduro is not the winger. And Morrow is not the DM.

I get this , question what is Bradley ?......or every team now criticizes him for playing too deep , I'm at a loss where he should play , or wants to play ????? I really don't know where he will be successful ?....is it the team around him , or him?....TFC seems so unorganized .

[reggie]

this team is going nowhere with this roster,they need at least 5 or 6 new starters 3 at the back.clean up the D and bring in a AM...

[InDa_110]

Yes, we all know that.

What's that got to do with the price of cheese?

You remind me of one of the sheep from the book "Animal Farm". Anytime anyone makes a critical statement about this team, no matter how well deserved you always make a brain dead statement. "4 legs good, two legs better!". TFC is like the pigs to you, you stand up and sing mindlessly no matter how bad they are, or how much FO fucks you over.

[burlington Red]

this team is going nowhere with this roster,they need at least 5 or 6 new starters 3 at the back.clean up the D and bring in a AM...

let's get a manager first

[jazzy]

this team is going nowhere with this roster,they need at least 5 or 6 new starters 3 at the back.clean up the D and bring in a AM...

sadly ...insert this after year 1, 2, 3......etc

[jazzy]

let's get a manager first

I really think this is our last hope...........but of course , think it won't happen while they string us along with the new stadium ........maybe by mid -season . I need to see an AM who can find space and knows when to pass . if Vanney doesn't get the players for his system , sound familiar , then we will have the most sleep inducing team ever . Right now these games are unwatchable !

[reggie]

ive been watching this unwatchable futbol for 8 yrs,but its the team I support and I will be back next season or until they get it right.

[Blizzard]

Well guys, it seems Yohan was on to something although the exact explanation is still fuzzy BUT Jason DeVos has just tweeted that MLS told him that the deflection negated the offside.

An NBC article has some info. It was written about a year ago. http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/17/offside-rule-ifab-uefa-law-11-interpretation-change-training/

Key passage (from UEFA) - “Gaining an advantage from being in an offside position … now the assistant referees and the referees should consider the nature of the play of the defender, because if the defender made a deliberate play, the outcome of the play doesn’t matter – with the exception of a ‘save’ – and so being in an offside position and gaining an advantage from being in an offside position is not an offence any more.”



Dan McClintock ‏@_danmcc (https://twitter.com/_danmcc) 35m35 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/_danmcc/status/526234831538376704)
@24thminute (https://twitter.com/24thminute) @RudiSchuller (https://twitter.com/RudiSchuller) @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) @jasondevos (https://twitter.com/jasondevos) missing that. Law interpretations that changed this yr specifically mention this situation
(https://twitter.com/_danmcc/status/526234831538376704) 0 replies 0 retweets 0 favorites










https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/525126512853671936/J-qbzq8U_bigger.jpeg Jason deVos ‏@jasondevos (https://twitter.com/jasondevos) 16m16 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jasondevos/status/526239347884834816)
@_danmcc (https://twitter.com/_danmcc) @24thminute (https://twitter.com/24thminute) @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) @RudiSchuller (https://twitter.com/RudiSchuller) Correct. Explanation I received from the league was it was deflected off of Oduro.

1:10 AM - 26 Oct 2014 · Details



(https://twitter.com/jasondevos/status/526239347884834816)

[jloome]

Pretty open to interpretation, as that didn't look like his deliberate intent. It says a "deliberate play" not an "attempt to play the ball."

[OgtheDim]

I get this , question what is Bradley ?......or every team now criticizes him for playing too deep , I'm at a loss where he should play , or wants to play ????? I really don't know where he will be successful ?....is it the team around him , or him?....TFC seems so unorganized .

I think he would do OK with a midfielder who likes to stay back and a midfielder who likes to go forward. Showed better yesterday. Or as the second guy near the back in a 4-2-3-1.

[OgtheDim]

You remind me of one of the sheep from the book "Animal Farm". Anytime anyone makes a critical statement about this team, no matter how well deserved you always make a brain dead statement. "4 legs good, two legs better!". TFC is like the pigs to you, you stand up and sing mindlessly no matter how bad they are, or how much FO fucks you over.

Meh...

a) I ragged on Mariner ceaselessly

b) I have ragged on Bez for NOT replacing Laba

Anyhoo....if you can't understand what the heck I stated and for why, that's ur issue, not mine.

[Richard]

Those football lines are a disgrace, what a joke that is.

[PAOK17]

hrm. did Oduro head the ball? if yes, then the goal is legit. still doesn't excuse AR from sucking though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKmOv6m0gZk&list=UUSZbXT5TLLW_i-5W8FZpFsg

edit: it's a good goal. Oduro heads the ball deliberately. see 2nd replay
This is a grey area for a player gaining an advantage. Yes it's played by Oduro but it's to prevent the ball going through to the offside player. If he was taller or could jump higher, he would have done what he intended- clear the ball. He failed to do that because the ball was too high for him so I can't say he deliberately played the ball though he made a deliberate attempt to play it. My interpretation is that this is more of a deflection than a deliberate play. Oduro wasn't trying to play the ball in the path of the running player so I wouldn't say it was that deliberate. Kind of how the pass back rule leaves the referee to use his/her discretion of whether a ball coming of the foot of a defender is allowed to be picked up by the keeper. How many times have we seen a defender intercept a pass with his feet and his body positioned towards his goalkeeper, the keeper pick it up and the ref allow play to go on?

If FIFA were to come out and say this isn't offside because Oduro played it deliberately, then I'd ask for a change in the rule. This would mean defenders should not make attempts to intercept passes that could be going to an offside player- kind of hurts the defending team as it leaves it all in the hands of the assistant to call something offside.

I would say this falls more under page 108 and 116 of the Rule Book:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/36/01/11/27%5f06%5f2014%5fnew--lawsofthegameweben%5fneutral.pdf

I'd want clarification on the term "deliberate".

[Canary10]

We've looked like a team waiting to lose under Vanney. I hope we make a serious attempt to get a top coach. I don't think Vanney is going to cut it.

[pdubs]

Those football lines are a disgrace, what a joke that is.

As a league this should be a major priority to get everyone into soccer specific stadiums or guarantee the product on the field in terms of visuals is higher. The most important time of the season and we are seeing these lines? And is it FC Dallas that has high school football destroy their field during the summer. Countless more examples. You are right this is a disgrace.

[MightyDM]

Well guys, it seems Yohan was on to something although the exact explanation is still fuzzy BUT Jason DeVos has just tweeted that MLS told him that the deflection negated the offside.

An NBC article has some info. It was written about a year ago. http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/17/offside-rule-ifab-uefa-law-11-interpretation-change-training/

Key passage (from UEFA) - “Gaining an advantage from being in an offside position … now the assistant referees and the referees should consider the nature of the play of the defender, because if the defender made a deliberate play, the outcome of the play doesn’t matter – with the exception of a ‘save’ – and so being in an offside position and gaining an advantage from being in an offside position is not an offence any more.”



Dan McClintock ‏@_danmcc (https://twitter.com/_danmcc) 35m35 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/_danmcc/status/526234831538376704)
@24thminute (https://twitter.com/24thminute) @RudiSchuller (https://twitter.com/RudiSchuller) @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) @jasondevos (https://twitter.com/jasondevos) missing that. Law interpretations that changed this yr specifically mention this situation
0 replies 0 retweets 0 favorites

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/525126512853671936/J-qbzq8U_bigger.jpeg Jason deVos ‏@jasondevos (https://twitter.com/jasondevos) 16m16 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jasondevos/status/526239347884834816)
@_danmcc (https://twitter.com/_danmcc) @24thminute (https://twitter.com/24thminute) @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) @RudiSchuller (https://twitter.com/RudiSchuller) Correct. Explanation I received from the league was it was deflected off of Oduro.

1:10 AM - 26 Oct 2014 · Details



(https://twitter.com/jasondevos/status/526239347884834816)


this has to be incorrect. The FIFA rule book mentioned in another post has a diagram that shows this exact situation and says it is offside. Even the article talks about back passes, not deflections. I am very surprised Jason just accepts this because the implications are radical. Essentially they are saying that if the player offers at it any deflection makes an offside player onside. Wow.

[speckles]

Well I have given him his ten games before I comment, they need to get the roster quality and depth, the manager will not matter until that is sorted. No season tickets for me next year unless something tangible happens in the offseason and lets face it, a lot would have to happen to make a differenece. Nelson contacts and effort moved this team forward however it was not all going to happen in this season, given last year was simply clearing the decks given cap issues. The rest of them at this outfit especially Bez are monkeys.

[shwade]

As a league this should be a major priority to get everyone into soccer specific stadiums or guarantee the product on the field in terms of visuals is higher. The most important time of the season and we are seeing these lines? And is it FC Dallas that has high school football destroy their field during the summer. Countless more examples. You are right this is a disgrace.

If those owners dont want to put money into their own clubs and make an ounce of effort towards their teams not looking bush League then fuck them..theg dont deserve to own a team as this league attempts to transition out of their mickey mouse crap.

[CommradePolski]

We've looked like a team waiting to lose under Vanney. I hope we make a serious attempt to get a top coach. I don't think Vanney is going to cut it.

We differ on opinions about Gilberto, but I agree 100% about this statement.

[jazzy]

We differ on opinions about Gilberto, but I agree 100% about this statement.

and the horror is it will give MLSE another year to throw away..........a real owner would put an end to this maybe , might make it approach ......and get what is needed . But I'm pretty sure with our history we will be dragged along again . I feel the only way Bez becomes 'the' man is to 'get' a experienced tactician . The team were simply dead men walking ........If this is what I'll have to watch . God help us ..........And I have watched some great games from the rest of the league ! It is not the league at all .

[PAOK17]

Well according to FIFA, the goal should count. It's a pretty stupid rule to be honest. You're basically telling players to not attempt to intercept through balls or overhead long balls if they think there may be a player offside behind them. And then just hope the assistant flags it.

It should be, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball into the direction of the attacking player already in an offside position" not, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball". For me, you shouldn't be penalizing a player for mishitting a ball due to their inability to defy the laws of physics.

http://garcia-aranda.com/offsideifab/eng004video006.html

[Yohan]

Well according to FIFA, the goal should count. It's a pretty stupid rule to be honest. You're basically telling players to not attempt to intercept through balls or overhead long balls if they think there may be a player offside behind them. And then just hope the assistant flags it.

It should be, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball into the direction of the attacking player already in an offside position" not, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball". For me, you shouldn't be penalizing a player for mishitting a ball due to their inability to defy the laws of physics.

http://garcia-aranda.com/offsideifab/eng004video006.html
victory is mine! lol

[Qman]

Those football lines are a disgrace, what a joke that is.


shows what a non-event, lack of respect and disgrace MLS is in Boston.
MLS shouldn't have allowed the game to be played on this surface if you can't even respect the game. They would be better off playing the game at a local park.

[Blizzard]

victory is mine! lol

Yup. According to that NBC Sports article, the rule was "tweaked" a little over a year ago. Who knew? Nobody apparently.

[Blizzard]

Well according to FIFA, the goal should count. It's a pretty stupid rule to be honest. You're basically telling players to not attempt to intercept through balls or overhead long balls if they think there may be a player offside behind them. And then just hope the assistant flags it.

It should be, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball into the direction of the attacking player already in an offside position" not, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball". For me, you shouldn't be penalizing a player for mishitting a ball due to their inability to defy the laws of physics.

http://garcia-aranda.com/offsideifab/eng004video006.html

Exactly. A defender is going to of two minds. Do I attempt to play it or not? We know that the officials are not to be relied upon so all this does is result in a lot of instances that would have been offside but no longer are even though the player was in an offside position.

What if I, as a defender, slide to my right with my leg outstretched to block a through ball. It is most certainly an attempt to play the ball but it is most certainly not something that could be confused with a back pass.

It really should be a matter of control and possession. If I win the ball and then try to pass back to my keeper or another player, yes, obviously that is not offside but in the old days prior to the delayed flag, it would likely have been flagged before it even got to me. Now I'm scared to attempt to play the ball because I might nullify the offside call!

It's crazy IMO.

[Blizzard]

If those owners dont want to put money into their own clubs and make an ounce of effort towards their teams not looking bush League then fuck them..theg dont deserve to own a team as this league attempts to transition out of their mickey mouse crap.

Have a heart shwade, Kraft is worth only $4 Billion. http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/richest-billionaires/robert-kraft-net-worth/

[PAOK17]

Exactly. A defender is going to of two minds. Do I attempt to play it or not? We know that the officials are not to be relied upon so all this does is result in a lot of instances that would have been offside but no longer are even though the player was in an offside position.

What if I, as a defender, slide to my right with my leg outstretched to block a through ball. It is most certainly an attempt to play the ball but it is most certainly not something that could be confused with a back pass.

It really should be a matter of control and possession. If I win the ball and then try to pass back to my keeper or another player, yes, obviously that is not offside but in the old days prior to the delayed flag, it would likely have been flagged before it even got to me. Now I'm scared to attempt to play the ball because I might nullify the offside call!

It's crazy IMO.
I just don't understand why they don't treat it like the rule that doesn't allow a goalkeeper from picking up a back pass. Refs only call it when it is clear that the defender is intending to pass it back to the keeper. there are many times when a defender on the wrong side of a 2-on-1 intercepts a pass across from goal by sticking their leg out (while facing their own goal) and redirect the ball to the keeper with their foot. The keeper picks it up and the refs never call it a back pass because the defender's intention is to intercept the pass- not pass it back to their keeper.

[MightyDM]

Well according to FIFA, the goal should count. It's a pretty stupid rule to be honest. You're basically telling players to not attempt to intercept through balls or overhead long balls if they think there may be a player offside behind them. And then just hope the assistant flags it.

It should be, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball into the direction of the attacking player already in an offside position" not, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball". For me, you shouldn't be penalizing a player for mishitting a ball due to their inability to defy the laws of physics.

http://garcia-aranda.com/offsideifab/eng004video006.html

but your earlier diagram, 13 at p116 shows exactly this situation and says that it is offside. And that is the FIFA rule book.

[MightyDM]

Well according to FIFA, the goal should count. It's a pretty stupid rule to be honest. You're basically telling players to not attempt to intercept through balls or overhead long balls if they think there may be a player offside behind them. And then just hope the assistant flags it.

It should be, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball into the direction of the attacking player already in an offside position" not, if a defender "deliberately plays the ball". For me, you shouldn't be penalizing a player for mishitting a ball due to their inability to defy the laws of physics.

http://garcia-aranda.com/offsideifab/eng004video006.html

no, that is a headed back pass, not a deflection. Look at the rule book, it's clear page 116

[MightyDM]

victory is mine! lol

As one of the people who jumped all over you, we owe you an apology. But you are still wrong! See my other posts. And it has to be that way, the other interpretation is impossible from a playing perspective.

[Yohan]

As one of the people who jumped all over you, we owe you an apology. But you are still wrong! See my other posts. And it has to be that way, the other interpretation is impossible from a playing perspective.
hey man. take it to FIFA technical committee ;)

[Ajax TFC]

I was always under the impression that if the defender plays the ball in an attempt to stop if from getting to an attacker who was in an offside position, then it's called offside because the offside player still influenced the play. I must admit I've never read the official rules, it just seems to get called that way.

[PAOK17]

no, that is a headed back pass, not a deflection. Look at the rule book, it's clear page 116

Well if we go by page 116's exact wording (I'm being devil's advocate here), thats for the case of a shot where clearly it's a deflection. I agree the video I posted looks kind of like a flicked on back pass but again, I believe the defender was trying to do exactly what Oduro was and that was to head the ball away. Problem was, he was too short/ball was too high for him to do so.

I think the rule is far too vague and the explanation/clarification is even worse. If they want to ensure it means a clear back pass, I am pretty sure there are better examples of a defender's brain fart of literally passing the ball to an opponent on a blooper reel somewhere.

Personally, if I was a ref, I'd call this offside 100% of the time. If FIFA actually cared that the correct call is made, they'd do a better job of explaining their own rules.

[Ajax TFC]

A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball
touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee,
involved in active play by:
• interfering with play or
• interfering with an opponent or
• gaining an advantage by being in that position
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lawsofthegameen.pdf

I would say that this definition definitely applies to the play last night. The ball was being played to him when he was in an offside position, which means he was interfering with play, and he definitely gained an advantage from being in that position when the the ball was played to him. I don't see how the fact that Oduro touched it changes anything. If a player intentionally moves to block a shot, and it falls to an attacker who was offside at the time of the shot, it's still called as offside every time.

[JuliquE]

Shit call changed everything.

BUT


Defence was shaky and probably should have given up at least one more including a stone cold penalty.
I feel like the goal, and the circumstances surrounding it, killed their already weakened spirits, in an already meaningless game and coming off the disappointment of not making the post-season.

To be fair, they actually DID have a go, following the goal, if maybe lacking that bit of sharpness, when you know something's on the line. Because they had to take the game to NE, it opened them up to be caught on the counter, which lead to the odd gilt-edge chance for the opposition.. so, it's difficult for me to take too much away from this performance, in evaluating where we stand.

[JuliquE]

This is a grey area for a player gaining an advantage. Yes it's played by Oduro but it's to prevent the ball going through to the offside player. If he was taller or could jump higher, he would have done what he intended- clear the ball. He failed to do that because the ball was too high for him so I can't say he deliberately played the ball though he made a deliberate attempt to play it. My interpretation is that this is more of a deflection than a deliberate play. Oduro wasn't trying to play the ball in the path of the running player so I wouldn't say it was that deliberate. Kind of how the pass back rule leaves the referee to use his/her discretion of whether a ball coming of the foot of a defender is allowed to be picked up by the keeper. How many times have we seen a defender intercept a pass with his feet and his body positioned towards his goalkeeper, the keeper pick it up and the ref allow play to go on?

If FIFA were to come out and say this isn't offside because Oduro played it deliberately, then I'd ask for a change in the rule. This would mean defenders should not make attempts to intercept passes that could be going to an offside player- kind of hurts the defending team as it leaves it all in the hands of the assistant to call something offside.

I would say this falls more under page 108 and 116 of the Rule Book:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/36/01/11/27%5f06%5f2014%5fnew--lawsofthegameweben%5fneutral.pdf (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/02/36/01/11/27_06_2014_new--lawsofthegameweben_neutral.pdf)

I'd want clarification on the term "deliberate".
You're BANG on, here, and jloome said it best: the laws say "deliberate play" vs. "deliberate play ATTEMPT/ATTEMPT to play the ball"; Oduro ATTEMPTED to make a deliberate play, as you say, to stop the ball going to a player in an offside position, only to have come up short (read: it's not as if he got a clean contact, and then his deliberate play were intercepted by someone previously in an offside position).

Interesting conversation, this. Just sucks we have to be in the middle of it, albeit better now, than when there's something on the line.

[Qman]

Have a heart shwade, Kraft is worth only $4 Billion. http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/richest-billionaires/robert-kraft-net-worth/


all it shows is he doesn't give a shit about futbol

[Yohan]

http://www.proreferees.com/news-play-of-the-week---2014---wk33.php

official PRO explanation

[JuliquE]

http://www.proreferees.com/news-play-of-the-week---2014---wk33.php

official PRO explanation
"Play to the whistle" -- hilarious.

Posted the following in the Instant Replay video comments:


The laws say it isn't offside, if the player makes a "deliberate play," not an "attempt to play the ball."

It's clear that Oduro's objective (or his intended "deliberate play") was to stop the ball going into the player in an offside position, via a clearance, JUST in case he was onside. The ball being too high, he doesn't get a clean contact, and fails to make said play -- I mean, nothing of what resulted looked deliberate from him, and it's not as if he cleanly caught the ball, only for it to be intercepted.

By PRO's interpretation, a defender will now be penalized for "playing to the whistle," as it were, because, now, if they're not sure and scuff an effort to clear their lines, someone, say, standing next to the 'keeper can capitalize.. where as, had they been able to see the future, they could have left it and been safe -- magical implications, this, if true!

Should be treated like the law regarding a back-pass to the 'keeper; if a low cross or a cut-back comes in, and a player slides to block it, doesn't get a clean contact, and the ball winds up in the keeper's hands, the play is allowed to carry on, every time. Another way of viewing it is by possession; if the player takes a touch, and then makes a pass, or catches a ball cleanly, it's viewed as having been in possession of the ball.. so, it's fair if the opposition intercepts any resulting "deliberate play" -- a deflection is not possession of the ball.