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jloome
10-18-2014, 04:06 PM
Okay, so 2014 is a wrap. It sucked, again.
However...
We have a core of decent players. We have a coach at least willing to try moving forward. We have owners with deep pockets.

With all that sunshine in mind...

I'd like to see us move to a different formation next year, one that takes our best players into consideration for their strengths, and one that accounts for trends around the league tactically.

We need to switch to a 4-3-3 or variant thereof. With our personnel, I'm thinking a 4-2-3-1:

----------------Bendik------------------
NEWRB/Bloom--NEW CB--Caldwell/New CB--Morrow
------------Bradley---NewDM/Warner------------
--------Oduro---Gilberto/NewAM--Osorio
----------------New DP striker/Larin/Hamilton/Dike---------------

We drop defoe, bring in a new DP striker. We draft Larin if we can get him, but look for someone else to bolster the midfield offensively as well; if Gilberto leaves, we get a DP AM. We sign two new center backs and a new right back.

We play is as a largely four-man offense built around speed, with Bradley as an extra trailer. in defense, we use the dual anchors to break up anything going into the danger zone just ahead of the box. One can also be used to man-mark danger players like Higuain or Morales while the other plays as a straight anchor. We transition with speed through Oduro and Gilberto/AM, and Osorio drops back slightly to be the second outlet man after Bradley. That way, depending upon which side the ball is played to, we'll have a good passer moving the ball in transition to our more talented offensive players.

Ideally, even if we don't get a DP AM who replaces Gilberto, we'd find someone stronger than both Oduro and Osorio and make those two compete for the other spot.

Thoughts, opinions, options?

notthesun
10-18-2014, 04:11 PM
Too early for me to get into specifics. Need confirmation that Vanney is staying first, and need to see what happens with Henry and Gilberto (and I guess Defoe although that's basically a wrap at this point).

I will say this, as things stand I would be very surprised to see Dike in the fold next year. Which is a damn shame for him personally, and hopefully not something we come to regret later.

inheavensince07
10-18-2014, 04:40 PM
Okay, so 2014 is a wrap. It sucked, again.
However...
We have a core of decent players. We have a coach at least willing to try moving forward. We have owners with deep pockets.

With all that sunshine in mind...

I'd like to see us move to a different formation next year, one that takes our best players into consideration for their strengths, and one that accounts for trends around the league tactically.

We need to switch to a 4-3-3 or variant thereof. With our personnel, I'm thinking a 4-2-3-1:

----------------Bendik------------------
NEWRB/Bloom--NEW CB--Caldwell/New CB--Morrow
------------Bradley---NewDM/Warner------------
--------Oduro---Gilberto/NewAM--Osorio
----------------New DP striker/Larin/Hamilton/Dike---------------

We drop defoe, bring in a new DP striker. We draft Larin if we can get him, but look for someone else to bolster the midfield offensively as well; if Gilberto leaves, we get a DP AM. We sign two new center backs and a new right back.

We play is as a largely four-man offense built around speed, with Bradley as an extra trailer. in defense, we use the dual anchors to break up anything going into the danger zone just ahead of the box. One can also be used to man-mark danger players like Higuain or Morales while the other plays as a straight anchor. We transition with speed through Oduro and Gilberto/AM, and Osorio drops back slightly to be the second outlet man after Bradley. That way, depending upon which side the ball is played to, we'll have a good passer moving the ball in transition to our more talented offensive players.

Ideally, even if we don't get a DP AM who replaces Gilberto, we'd find someone stronger than both Oduro and Osorio and make those two compete for the other spot.

Thoughts, opinions, options?



OMG !!!! The team must loves guys like you .. With all due respect they shit the bed for almost a decade now and they still have not even cleaned out there No playoff asses yet .. It has got to be too soon to even attempt to discuss this .. Plus in MLS many teams completely turn over year to year .. especially shit ones like TFC...

I have had seasons since Day 1 and they will be gonzo soon in fact I have already set up their emails to go to spam .. Worst MLS team of all time is now cemented .. Makes sense because their big Brother is the worst sports team of all time .. Culture is culture ..

Peace and Love devoted Fans .. But TFC can Fuck right off for life for me :)

Leedsoronto
10-18-2014, 04:54 PM
Hmm erm, so, what your saying, in short, is ya not in heaven anymore then, Yeh?

inheavensince07
10-18-2014, 04:59 PM
Hmm erm, so, what your saying, in short, is ya not in heaven anymore then, Yeh?


Correct :) .. I used to think about TFC on every game day and know it was coming etc.. This year it never even entered my mind , still in heaven but in different way

WestStandGeoff
10-18-2014, 05:17 PM
----------------Bendik------------------
NEWRB/Bloom--NEW CB--Caldwell/New CB--Morrow
------------Bradley---NewDM/Warner------------
--------Oduro---Gilberto/NewAM--Osorio
----------------New DP striker/Larin/Hamilton/Dike---------------


So are you suggesting we get rid of (or lose) both Henry and Hagglund? Agree that we need to improve at CB, but Hagglund way surpassed expectations, and despite a few bonehead moves Henry has at least played as well as I expected this season (including a few key tackles today). At the least one or both should be kept for depth.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-18-2014, 05:49 PM
So are you suggesting we get rid of (or lose) both Henry and Hagglund? Agree that we need to improve at CB, but Hagglund way surpassed expectations, and despite a few bonehead moves Henry has at least played as well as I expected this season (including a few key tackles today). At the least one or both should be kept for depth.

Henry is rumored to have been sold to Europe.
Hagglund, tho a great rookie is still just that. He can fill in and learn his trade and eventually be ready to take over. Need another vet or two in that position

Areathrasher
10-18-2014, 06:22 PM
Talked to Henry tonight. Sounded like a man that wasn't here next year

flamehawk
10-18-2014, 06:26 PM
Talked to Henry tonight. Sounded like a man that wasn't here next year

What'd he say? And what gave you that impression?

WestStandGeoff
10-18-2014, 06:31 PM
Henry is rumored to have been sold to Europe.
Hagglund, tho a great rookie is still just that. He can fill in and learn his trade and eventually be ready to take over. Need another vet or two in that position

Agreed, but since jloome left Hagglund out while still showing 4 striker options, I thought it was worth asking for clarity if he sees both of them gone in the off season somewhere.

jloome
10-18-2014, 06:33 PM
So are you suggesting we get rid of (or lose) both Henry and Hagglund? Agree that we need to improve at CB, but Hagglund way surpassed expectations, and despite a few bonehead moves Henry has at least played as well as I expected this season (including a few key tackles today). At the least one or both should be kept for depth.

Hagglund has the tools but made a lot of significant, game-changing mistakes. He's not ready to start on a team that's going to contend in this league.

EDIT: Just listed the backup strikers because they're all fairly even. We need a DP striker next year.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-18-2014, 06:57 PM
Agreed, but since jloome left Hagglund out while still showing 4 striker options, I thought it was worth asking for clarity if he sees both of them gone in the off season somewhere.

gotcha

jazzy
10-18-2014, 07:16 PM
What'd he say? And what gave you that impression?

on TFC instagram someone mentions he's not here next year..(wife saw it)

ag futbol
10-18-2014, 07:53 PM
I don't think Gilberto works in the middle. It would be maicon santos part 2.

jazzy
10-18-2014, 08:00 PM
I don't think Gilberto works in the middle. It would be maicon santos part 2.

in the early part of the season if I'm not mistaken he came out in an AM situation and caused havoc ....yes I'd love a controlling playmaker but it seems there isn't the desire in mgmt ....or knowledge in how to work it with Bradley...

flamehawk
10-18-2014, 08:34 PM
I am actually leaning towards keeping Vanney and giving him time .. that said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Osieck is available. Played and managed in Canada .. whether that translates to success in MLS however.

pdubs
10-18-2014, 08:39 PM
in the early part of the season if I'm not mistaken he came out in an AM situation and caused havoc ....yes I'd love a controlling playmaker but it seems there isn't the desire in mgmt ....or knowledge in how to work it with Bradley...

why don't we use a DP spot on an actual battle hardened AM tho?

if mgmt can't identify this need then idk. lol

OgtheDim
10-18-2014, 09:09 PM
I'm so annoyed with how today went, I decided to get all anorak to get rid of my frustrations. :)


Apologies for the long post.

Sooooo...here's a few thoughts on keepers and defenders

************************************************** ****************************

Keepers


We don't have a big keeper problem. Its not our most glaring weakness for sure. If we could get a Rimando or Kennedy from Chivas, would definitely go for them. But, realistically, we are going to be growing Bendik and Roberts for the next 5 seasons.

********************************


Bendik

Will be 26 next April. Still young for a keeper. A good shot stopper. Laconic nature off the pitch hides a fierce competitor on it. Distribution not up to what the rest of the league does. Learning to control his defence. Growing into the position.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - Yes

Position Next Season - Starting Keeper

Where would I like to See Him - Unless there is an obvious upgrade, the Joseph Bendik 5 year plan continues into its 3rd year.


Konopka

Cheap career backup. Most games he has ever had in a season is 12 in Ireland. Knows his place and seems Ok with it. At age 30 next April, not too old.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No.

Will he be taken in the expansion draft? - No

Position Next Season - Backup / Voyageurs Cup Keeper

Where would I like to see him? - Backup / Voyageurs Cup Keeper


Roberts

Young. Future role as a backup pushing the starter in a few seasons but not yet. Needs playing time.


Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - N/A (First contract)

Position Next Season - Starter on USLPro Toronto FC II team

Where would I like to see him? - challenging Konopka by the end of the season


************************************************** **

Defence


Defence is our biggest issue. Pretty much all MLS teams play with a back 4. We would need to find some really special players to be trying a 3 man back line. Our CD's are just not good enough. Part of this is midfield support but we get ourselves into awful predicaments just because of decisions the CD's make. Its not an awful bunch. Just not consistent enough for 90 minutes.

What will happen? Henry is going on a transfer. Bloom will go, as will Orr. Caldwell will stay for one more season, and we will get another starting CD.

What would I like to see? 2 new CD's, the same quality as Morrow on the Right side and a decent backup

************************************

Central Defenders


Caldwell


Neither impressive nor awful. 35 next September. Clock is ticking Steady defence. Losing his step slowly. Has issues maintaining a high line. Has no pursuit speed left. Good positioning. Good in the air on defence A threat in the air on set pieces but never quite gets there. Can't play the ball out of the back. Doesn't have the passing capability to step up. Seems to have fixed his arms askew to get penalties issue. Leads the line well. Influence missed when not there. Expensive contract using up a lot of cap space. Acts well as captain.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No

Will he be taken in the expansion draft? - Unlikely, due to salary


Probable Position Next Season - Starting CD

Where I would Like to see him - If we can get a younger cheaper backline leader, Caldwell should be our one contract that we use with that terminate option. We don't need his overall leadership and the defence wasn't good enough. Chances of him making it through next season at the level he has been playing are not good.


Henry

Athletic, decent enough with the ball at feet. Not a great passer. Speed for days. Mental mistakes every game. Was expected to pick up his game this season and didn't. Good in the air on both sides. Needs to learn to attack the goal more on set pieces. He's only 22 in April and will be a stud CD some day and a Canadian MNT stalwart.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - Yes

Probable Position Next Season - Transferred. He's gone. Future is in Europe. Needs to go and be a #3 CD on a team where he can learn more. Go and do us all proud young man.



Orr

Not good enough to start or come in as sub. 32 next season. Mostly played as injury replacement. Was supposed to be a RB but almost never played there. Willing to play the ball out of the back. Can pass the ball well, but not consistently. Got frustrated with plays going bad and stopped instead of pursuing. Lost a step. Good guy around the locker room.

Probable Position Next Season - Loan ends at end of December. Contract with Blackburn ending summer 2015. We can't afford what he might get from a lower division team in England. If he wanted to hang around for $75K like he's currently getting paid, would be depth in defence.


Hagglund

Young, energetic, enthusiastic great guy. 23 next April (Yes, he's 8 months older then Henry) Has the basics, needs to work on his fitness and his tools. Has never played this many games in his career and it showed with mental mistakes starting to happen in July. Attacks in the air ferociously (NYRB marked him with their best guy). Can get his feet into attacking positions not usually possible for a CD. Not a great passer yet. Makes passing mistakes each game. As a stay at home RB, not a threat in attack but he can cross the ball decently enough. One of our best draft picks.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - N/A (First contract)

Probable Position Next Season - 3rd CD, learning from the starters

Where would I like to see him? - 3rd CD, learning from the starters


Richter

Backup. Minimum wage player. Not good enough to start, not good enough to make the game day squad unless there are injuries or for a cup. 26 next season so still might pick it up a bit but unlikely. Loaned out to see if he can get better.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No

Will he be picked up in the expansion draft? - unless they need to get a player to fill a slot and be under the cap, doubtful

Probable Position Next Season - On Loan with the Toronto FC USLPRO team. Last year of his contract.

Where would I like to see him? - getting better somewhere and if he ever has to get on the pitch, we have issues

Full Backs



Morrow

IMHO, our MVP this season. Solid. Just turned 27 this month. Most consistent guy on the field for us. Rarely beaten. Always in position. Gets wide down the left and defences have to adjust. Tends to be a bit focused on certain channels in attack. Crosses are dangerous but needs to get better. Defensively solid. Good enough in the air. When he was out, we felt it.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - Yes

Probable Position Next Season - Starting LB

Where would I like to see him? - Starting LB with a better set of players in front of him to open up more spaces to attack.


Bloom

Some like him, some can't stand him. Turns 27 next month (basically same age as Morrow). Cheap but due for a better contract. Good attitude. Works hard. Loses focus when attacks coming in from the left and lets people get behind him. Good enough pace. Always wants to get going down the right. Positioning a bit wobbly. Good enough in the air but never going to be a threat.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No. As much as I like him compared to what we have had, we need better crossing from the flanks and positioning from that right side.

Would he be taken in the expansion draft? - Yes, Orlando would be better for his new family.

Probable Position Next Season - Starting RB Orlando

Where would I like to see him? - Starting RB Orlando



Morgan

Remember him? He only turns 24 in January but he seems to have been here forever. So much promise. Hasn't gotten there yet. Not sure he will. He's fallen down the depth chart. A bit expensive at $80K, given what he provides. When Morrow got injured, Morgan did not replace him. Likes to bomb forward. Makes bonehead plays every game. Not a great crosser of the ball. Not good enough in the air for his position. A backup now.


Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No.

Would he be taken in the expansion draft? - No A bit expensive for a backup

Probable Position Next Season - Contract not renewed

Where would I like to see him? - doing well in NASL, which is more likely his level.

Areathrasher
10-18-2014, 09:14 PM
What'd he say? And what gave you that impression?

Me: Will you be here next year
Henry: We will see

Given the fact he jumped in with 113 and was seen with tears in his eyes after the game, id say he is gone.

OgtheDim
10-18-2014, 09:22 PM
I am actually leaning towards keeping Vanney and giving him time .. that said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Osieck is available. Played and managed in Canada .. whether that translates to success in MLS however.

That sexist remark puts him offside for me.

Beyond that, apart from a manger having to learn the league on the fly, again, Australia thought so much of him, they let him go after he got them qualified for Brazil.

And, he's 66. MLS is not a place for older dudes to be having to learn this league.

flamehawk
10-18-2014, 09:35 PM
That sexist remark puts him offside for me.

Beyond that, apart from a manger having to learn the league on the fly, again, Australia thought so much of him, they let him go after he got them qualified for Brazil.

And, he's 66. MLS is not a place for older dudes to be having to learn this league.

Ahh.. completely forgot about the sexist 'joke' incident, a complete no no from me then.

Davenport
10-18-2014, 09:53 PM
Henry is a liability. He's a lovely lad but he's not a good enough footballer. End of.

Leedsoronto
10-18-2014, 10:34 PM
Would like to see some of the young guys play at New England, the likes of Mannella, Manny, Q, and fly Hamilton over for the game, let's see what we have and what we may or should have used? The rest can go play golf.

molenshtain
10-19-2014, 02:08 AM
Henry is a liability. He's a lovely lad but he's not a good enough footballer. End of.

For the first 15-16 games of the season he was statistically the second best CB in the league after Marshall.

prizby
10-19-2014, 07:00 AM
I'm so annoyed with how today went, I decided to get all anorak to get rid of my frustrations. :)


Apologies for the long post.

Sooooo...here's a few thoughts on keepers and defenders



- sneaking suspicion they protect Caldwell, dunno why because i don't think anyone takes him on his number; I think his defence was more than good enough...this team was lost without him when he was injured and frankly I don't see TFC being able to find 2 guys in the market during the winter capable of doing as good of job as he or better.
- doubt Orr comes back...he's a Ryan Nelsen loan signee; not part of Vanney's team whatsoever
- you actually have to protect Hagglund he is neither GA nor academy grad, so he needs and will be protected
- you protect bloom because if Orlando is on the cards, you make a trade with them and get something back (ie. see who is unprotected on other squads, ask Orlando to take x and trade for Bloom with the promise of them also not taking anyone else), don't just let him go

dupont
10-19-2014, 11:14 AM
I think changing coaches mid-season is the worst and TFC always do it. They should have let Nelson finish the season and then either hired a new coach for next year or gave Vanney his chance at that time. As it is now, my biggest worry is if they let Vanney stay for next season and then fire him mid season just like we always do. It's not really fair to Vanney but I'm thinking they may as well hire a different coach now or else I think we will be stuck in this cycle forever.

jazzy
10-19-2014, 12:13 PM
:drinking:I guess this will be an annual reoccurring thread in our history......we should see every year how much earlier it can start each year..:o

ag futbol
10-19-2014, 01:37 PM
For the first 15-16 games of the season he was statistically the second best CB in the league after Marshall.
I like the kid, but I think we'd all agree it's best to move on. He needs a better learning environment, we need a ready right now CB. He gets to advance his career, we get money out of it.

Sucks he never got to see anything but instability in his time here. But I think this is a move everyone can get behind.

portu
10-19-2014, 03:56 PM
I understand all the talk about our D but I feel our hardest flaw to solve is the CAM position. I think we all sort of agree that Vanney is shifting towards a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation and if you're going to play that way then the creative player in the middle is by far and away the most important. With the D we're looking at getting 1, maybe 2, veteran starting CBs, that we have the assets to acquire for sure, and then if Bloom stays we add a RB to compete with him and we're pretty much set. Getting the CAM we need is waaay harder. There are no players in MLS that we could reasonably acquire to do the job and that means scouting, scouting means time, time means a transfer fee and a transfer fee means DP which you cannot afford to screw up.

I can think of a couple names from SA (Cardenas or Cardona, Atletico Nacional, Colombia) but after that the pool is way too large to pick names and examine their chances of signing for us because we have no idea where else the FO might look.

Here's my thoughts on Cardenas and Cardona

Cardenas can be considered one of the best players in the Colombian league, he won the equivalent of MVP in 2013, and he's only 24 so it'd be like a Gilberto signing sort of. He's never played outside of Colombia, though so it would probably take him a long time to adapt to the league especially considering he's only 5'6''. He's crafty on the ball, provides good service from set pieces, his shooting could be better, excellent passer, really quick. He is the type of guy that gets linked to a crazy amount of clubs every transfer window, some really good (Boca Juniors, Dynamo Zagreb, Sevilla) which leaves you thinking why he hasn't moved. Anyways he's evaluated by transfermarkt at around 1 million so might cost 2.5m considering his value to his club. He's also represented by the same agent as Gilberto.

Cordona's a lot younger at 21 but unlike Cardenas he's 6' so that's a massive benefit to adjusting to the MLS game. He's more direct than Cardenas in that he likes to have a shot at net from 30 yards every now and then. Still a good passer though maybe not as much as Cardenas. He's fast but not incredibly so but he's much better at taking players on. Watching him play he's not the most mature player but that comes with age. He'd also be considered a young DP due to that age so that's a bonus. In addition he was recently added to Peckerman's Colombia side against us and El Salvador (who he played a half and a bit against). Transfermarkt has him at 1.1m but given his inclusion in the Colombia squad and age/potential he'd probably go for 3-4m.

Any more names you guys can think of?

jloome
10-19-2014, 04:23 PM
I understand all the talk about our D but I feel our hardest flaw to solve is the CAM position. I think we all sort of agree that Vanney is shifting towards a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation and if you're going to play that way then the creative player in the middle is by far and away the most important. With the D we're looking at getting 1, maybe 2, veteran starting CBs, that we have the assets to acquire for sure, and then if Bloom stays we add a RB to compete with him and we're pretty much set. Getting the CAM we need is waaay harder. There are no players in MLS that we could reasonably acquire to do the job and that means scouting, scouting means time, time means a transfer fee and a transfer fee means DP which you cannot afford to screw up.

I can think of a couple names from SA (Cardenas or Cardona, Atletico Nacional, Colombia) but after that the pool is way too large to pick names and examine their chances of signing for us because we have no idea where else the FO might look.

Here's my thoughts on Cardenas and Cardona

Cardenas can be considered one of the best players in the Colombian league, he won the equivalent of MVP in 2013, and he's only 24 so it'd be like a Gilberto signing sort of. He's never played outside of Colombia, though so it would probably take him a long time to adapt to the league especially considering he's only 5'6''. He's crafty on the ball, provides good service from set pieces, his shooting could be better, excellent passer, really quick. He is the type of guy that gets linked to a crazy amount of clubs every transfer window, some really good (Boca Juniors, Dynamo Zagreb, Sevilla) which leaves you thinking why he hasn't moved. Anyways he's evaluated by transfermarkt at around 1 million so might cost 2.5m considering his value to his club. He's also represented by the same agent as Gilberto.

Cordona's a lot younger at 21 but unlike Cardenas he's 6' so that's a massive benefit to adjusting to the MLS game. He's more direct than Cardenas in that he likes to have a shot at net from 30 yards every now and then. Still a good passer though maybe not as much as Cardenas. He's fast but not incredibly so but he's much better at taking players on. Watching him play he's not the most mature player but that comes with age. He'd also be considered a young DP due to that age so that's a bonus. In addition he was recently added to Peckerman's Colombia side against us and El Salvador (who he played a half and a bit against). Transfermarkt has him at 1.1m but given his inclusion in the Colombia squad and age/potential he'd probably go for 3-4m.

Any more names you guys can think of?

Some guys I've been keeping an eye on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irven_%C3%81vila

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/josef-husbauer/46205/OOPS! Scratch him, signed by Cagliari for next season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Lei

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/takashi-usami/74703/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/andres-chavez/193778/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/mbwana-samatta/175962/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/roger-fabricio-rojas/69429/

parma
10-19-2014, 04:33 PM
What are our draft options...do we have Chivas pick for Bocanegra, does Chivas get a pick...? I think we have a couple of high picks...

jloome
10-19-2014, 04:38 PM
What are our draft options...do we have Chivas pick for Bocanegra, does Chivas get a pick...? I think we have a couple of high picks...

We have four first rounders beginning with pick 3, I believe. Expansion teams get 1 and 2

parma
10-19-2014, 04:41 PM
We have four first rounders beginning with pick 3, I believe. Expansion teams get 1 and 2

Thanks, hopefully we do a better job than a couple of year ago....Emery Welshman anybody...and please no more allocation money...

Ivy
10-19-2014, 04:44 PM
Thanks, hopefully we do a better job than a couple of year ago....Emery Welshman anybody...and please no more allocation money...

DC United built a last to first squad by tossing around allocation - it has its values.

Areathrasher
10-19-2014, 04:58 PM
I would have said Oscar Romero but it seems Corinthians have snapped him up for next season.

jloome
10-19-2014, 05:16 PM
Yeah, his brother too.


http://ca.soccerway.com/players/johan-arango/89631/
Having a good first year in top division
http://ca.soccerway.com/players/fernando-fernandez/322121/
Having a somewhat sensational start to career in Paraguay

OgtheDim
10-19-2014, 06:08 PM
Somebody needs to sit back while Bradley roams. A destroyer type would do nicely in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.

portu
10-19-2014, 06:24 PM
Somebody needs to sit back while Bradley roams. A destroyer type would do nicely in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.
I'd love to see Atiba Hutchinson here.

jloome
10-19-2014, 06:27 PM
Somebody needs to sit back while Bradley roams. A destroyer type would do nicely in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/sebastian-perez-cardona/175803/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebasti%C3%A1n_P%C3%A9rez_Cardona

DM for the Colombian U20 team, still playing domestically. Laba part 2, potentially.

ensco
10-19-2014, 06:55 PM
I think Creavalle is your DM, with Warner backing him up. Although maybe Creavalle is part of the solution at CB. He might be great there, I like his football sense, he is a leader out there.

We need a lot of new players, 5-6 by my count: an overhaul at CB, Caldwell isn't good enough, at least one of Hagglund or Henry need to improve a lot if they are going to be every day starters.

Same for wing play, we need real wingers, neither Jackson or Oduro are near good enough, plus we need a replacement for Defoe. May also need a replacement for Dero (although that may be Osorio, Oso also needs to take a step up if he wants to start every day). You want to see what elite MFs and forwards look like in this league, watch the Seattle-LA game tonight.

I am assuming Bradley and Gilberto return. Big assumption. I am on the fence about Gilberto. I could see him becoming a 20 goal scorer, and I could see him scoring 7 again. No way to know.

flamehawk
10-19-2014, 07:03 PM
Seeing as we're throwing out players we want signed that will fit in the team, I think we should take a look at Lam Zhi Gin (biased as a Hong Konger). He went through the HSV academy and started quite a few games last year, but was sold to Furth in the summer. He plays primarily as a RB but has played on either wing too. Great technical skill, but is injury-prone. With a chance that Bloom won't be with us next year and our lack of technical ability on the wings, he might be a good fit. He hasn't started too much at Furth this year, so who knows, maybe a loan->buy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0oxPLZeZq8
http://www.transfermarkt.com/zhi-gin-lam/profil/spieler/69396

jloome
10-19-2014, 07:10 PM
I think Creavalle is your DM, with Warner backing him up. Although maybe Creavalle is part of the solution at CB. He might be great there, I like his football sense, he is a leader out there.
.

Huge potential and a great athlete, but not aware yet of how to play with urgency at the MLS level. He was caught in the last game holding the ball too long on a number of occasions

I think he has the potential to take that role, though, and has the same sort of overall potential as Geoff Cameron, if someone can get him to read the game more astutely and be prepared to get rid of the ball as soon as it comes in.

ensco
10-19-2014, 07:49 PM
Huge potential and a great athlete, but not aware yet of how to play with urgency at the MLS level. He was caught in the last game holding the ball too long on a number of occasions

I think he has the potential to take that role, though, and has the same sort of overall potential as Geoff Cameron, if someone can get him to read the game more astutely and be prepared to get rid of the ball as soon as it comes in.

I just think he's playing with guys who don't know how to move without the ball. He will be a star.

Initial B
10-19-2014, 08:45 PM
I was watching the SS-LAG halftime report and the question was raised: What should Toronto FC do next? The analysts honestly seemed to be at a loss for a solution. Lalas said that they still don't have the pieces needed to be successful and suggested that maybe they move Bradley for 3 quality MLS starters, but who is TFC going to get to make a dumb trade like that? I have to agree that there's way to much uncertainty at the top of the organization and the fact that Vanney hasn't done well makes them lean towards another roster blow up in the cards.

OgtheDim
10-19-2014, 08:48 PM
I was watching the SS-LAG halftime report and the question was raised: What should Toronto FC do next? The analysts honestly seemed to be at a loss for a solution. Lalas said that they still don't have the pieces needed to be successful and suggested that maybe they move Bradley for 3 quality MLS starters, but who is TFC going to get to make a dumb trade like that? I have to agree that there's way to much uncertainty at the top of the organization and the fact that Vanney hasn't done well makes them lean towards another roster blow up in the cards.


I almost threw something at the screen when Lalas suggested they trade Bradley.

They have no clue. Trolling.

jloome
10-19-2014, 08:51 PM
I almost threw something at the screen when Lalas suggested they trade Bradley.

They have no clue. Trolling.

Keep in mind Lalas helped to turn the La Galaxy into a losing team; that takes some doing.

[NBF]
10-19-2014, 08:54 PM
I guess Jloome beat me to a thread about the rebuild, but here's my players to build on for next year based on the current lineup and players signed.


----------------------------------1.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------2. Bendik--------------------------------
----------------------------------3.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.[X]----------------1.[X]------------1. Henry----------1.Morrow
2.Bloom-----------2.Haggalund---------2.[X]--------------2.Morgan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------1.Jackson-----------1.Bradley--------------------
------------------2.Creavalle-----------2.Warner---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Moore----------------------1.Defoe------------------------1.[X]-
2.Osorio-----------------------2.[X]-------------------------2.Bekker
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------1.Gilberto-----------------------------
--------------------------------2.Oduro-------------------------------

Loaned Out:

1. Roberts
2. Aparacio
3. Manella
4. Lovitz

Released:

1. Konopka
2. Dike
3. Wiedeman
4. Hall
5. Richter
6. Orr
7. Caldwell

ensco
10-19-2014, 08:57 PM
I was watching the SS-LAG halftime report and the question was raised: What should Toronto FC do next? The analysts honestly seemed to be at a loss for a solution. Lalas said that they still don't have the pieces needed to be successful and suggested that maybe they move Bradley for 3 quality MLS starters, but who is TFC going to get to make a dumb trade like that? I have to agree that there's way to much uncertainty at the top of the organization and the fact that Vanney hasn't done well makes them lean towards another roster blow up in the cards.

As if there is such a thing as a trade for a $6M a year DP that you paid a $6M fee and at least 2x market value for.

OgtheDim
10-19-2014, 09:31 PM
;1701837']I guess Jloome beat me to a thread about the rebuild, but here's my players to build on for next year based on the current lineup and players signed.


----------------------------------1.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------2. Bendik--------------------------------
----------------------------------3.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.[X]----------------1.[X]------------1. Henry----------1.Morrow
2.Bloom-----------2.Haggalund---------2.[X]--------------2.Morgan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------1.Jackson-----------1.Bradley--------------------
------------------2.Creavalle-----------2.Warner---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Moore----------------------1.Defoe------------------------1.[X]-
2.Osorio-----------------------2.[X]-------------------------2.Bekker
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------1.Gilberto-----------------------------
--------------------------------2.Oduro-------------------------------

Loaned Out:

1. Roberts
2. Aparacio
3. Manella
4. Lovitz

Released:

1. Konopka
2. Dike
3. Wiedeman
4. Hall
5. Richter
6. Orr
7. Caldwell

I like that thinking formation wise but reality is somewhat different. Defoe ain't playing anywhere but off the shoulder of a defender. He hasn't got the temperament to pull back into the hole.

flamehawk
10-19-2014, 09:33 PM
I was watching the SS-LAG halftime report and the question was raised: What should Toronto FC do next? The analysts honestly seemed to be at a loss for a solution. Lalas said that they still don't have the pieces needed to be successful and suggested that maybe they move Bradley for 3 quality MLS starters, but who is TFC going to get to make a dumb trade like that? I have to agree that there's way to much uncertainty at the top of the organization and the fact that Vanney hasn't done well makes them lean towards another roster blow up in the cards.

Video initial B was referring to -> http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/19/video/2098031

flamehawk
10-19-2014, 09:52 PM
I almost threw something at the screen when Lalas suggested they trade Bradley.

They have no clue. Trolling.

However unlikely, I wonder if with Lewieke's exit and the continued failures at TFC, MLSE just decides to unload all the heavy DP contracts (such as trading Bradley away), rent BMO out to Argos, and run the club with a minimum budget. Their original plans did involve being happy with 10,000 average attendance..

flamehawk
10-19-2014, 09:55 PM
;1701837']I guess Jloome beat me to a thread about the rebuild, but here's my players to build on for next year based on the current lineup and players signed.


----------------------------------1.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------2. Bendik--------------------------------
----------------------------------3.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.[X]----------------1.[X]------------1. Henry----------1.Morrow
2.Bloom-----------2.Haggalund---------2.[X]--------------2.Morgan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------1.Jackson-----------1.Bradley--------------------
------------------2.Creavalle-----------2.Warner---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Moore----------------------1.Defoe------------------------1.[X]-
2.Osorio-----------------------2.[X]-------------------------2.Bekker
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------1.Gilberto-----------------------------
--------------------------------2.Oduro-------------------------------

Loaned Out:

1. Roberts
2. Aparacio
3. Manella
4. Lovitz

Released:

1. Konopka
2. Dike
3. Wiedeman
4. Hall
5. Richter
6. Orr
7. Caldwell

I guess you didn't hear the rumours of Henry and Gilberto being sold and the pretty much done deal Defoe exit. But other than that, I agree with much of your ranking, though I wouldn't have Moore as my 1st ranked right winger, and while I do play Jackson as a DM in Football Manager, I wonder how he'd really do in our setup - I do think he has the skill set to do the job.

Gringo Starr
10-19-2014, 10:58 PM
If Redknapp gets sacked at QPR is there still somewhere for Defoe to land overseas?

Soccerpro
10-19-2014, 11:00 PM
Our first priority needs to be a CB.
we need a replacement for Defoe.
we need a partner for Bradley if Osorio isnt going to play with him (not Warner or Bekker)
we need some wingers. Jackson and Oduro or Osorio on the wing hasn't gone too well this year.

Not impossible to fix, but no faith they can do it.

We will have some money if some players get sold/released (cough DeRo)

OgtheDim
10-20-2014, 06:14 AM
However unlikely, I wonder if with Lewieke's exit and the continued failures at TFC, MLSE just decides to unload all the heavy DP contracts (such as trading Bradley away), rent BMO out to Argos, and run the club with a minimum budget. Their original plans did involve being happy with 10,000 average attendance..

Bogers doesn't do public failure and has no history of shutting down stuff like this that quickly.

An honest assessment is developing that this team is not far away from success. Failure to get to the stated goal? Yes. Failure to move towards that goal? That's not what we are getting from TFC personnel. B

prizby
10-20-2014, 06:30 AM
;1701837']I guess Jloome beat me to a thread about the rebuild, but here's my players to build on for next year based on the current lineup and players signed.


----------------------------------1.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------2. Bendik--------------------------------
----------------------------------3.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.[X]----------------1.[X]------------1. Henry----------1.Morrow
2.Bloom-----------2.Haggalund---------2.[X]--------------2.Morgan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------1.Jackson-----------1.Bradley--------------------
------------------2.Creavalle-----------2.Warner---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Moore----------------------1.Defoe------------------------1.[X]-
2.Osorio-----------------------2.[X]-------------------------2.Bekker
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------1.Gilberto-----------------------------
--------------------------------2.Oduro-------------------------------

Loaned Out:

1. Roberts
2. Aparacio
3. Manella
4. Lovitz

Released:

1. Konopka
2. Dike
3. Wiedeman
4. Hall
5. Richter
6. Orr
7. Caldwell

Defoe as a #10, Bekker, Moore, on the wings; 150k/year on Bendik as back-up; jackson as a centre mid; henry is likely gone; gotta feeling oso might be too; not to mention defoe...there is so much wrong with this, it isn't even close to a representation of what tfc would look like next year

pdubs
10-20-2014, 06:55 AM
Defoe as a #10, Bekker, Moore, on the wings; 150k/year on Bendik as back-up; jackson as a centre mid; henry is likely gone; gotta feeling oso might be too; not to mention defoe...there is so much wrong with this, it isn't even close to a representation of what tfc would look like next year

just going to post exactly this.

Still Kicking
10-20-2014, 07:15 AM
Best to look at the offseason rebuild as a series of moves.

TFC has potentially four picks in the first round of the college draft. The TFC pick, the Chivas USA pick (Bocanegra deal), the Portland Timbers pick (Urutti-Dike trade) and a conditional pick from Seattle (Frei trade).
Although I am no fan of the Bez/Vanney leadership, the Bez/Nelsen combo came out of MLS college draft 2014 w Hagglund and Lovitz. So, hoping that a repeat of that level of quality (times two) would add to the team is fair. It is rare for a star player to emerge from the college ranks, but a depth forward, midfielder and defender would help. You can't rule out picking up a keeper. Four picks in the first round of twenty odd is a considerable amount.

TFC could potentially lose players (max two?) in the expansion draft w NYCFC and Orlando
Don't know if internet chatter that Mark Bloom to Orlando would please him plays into this. I think that losing Jackson or Oduro contributes to my dream of a rebuilt midfield.

TFC could gain a player in a dispersal draft of Chivas USA players?
This is a tricky, speculative area. Nothing official has been said yet. I think for maximum MLS strangeness this process should work out with Toronto using the Chivas USA draft pick that was obtained in exchange for the rights to Carlos Bocanegra and then Toronto should use a subsequent dispersal draft of Chivas USA players to choose Carlos Bocanegra.

TFC is able to sign new international players due to roster space and a potentially higher salary cap.
TFC has a number of International Player spots on the roster. MLS teams start with 8. TFC had one more than that through a trade but it is about to expire. If Bradley Orr's loan ends I think TFC will have 3 International player spots to fill on the 2015 roster. Presently Caldwell, Orr, Jackson, Defoe, Moore, Gilberto take up those spots. Oduro has a green card. The spots used for Cesar and Rey were never refilled. Unless MLS has a roster exemption for discovery signings, it appears that it is wise to sign new players after the Orlando/NYC expansion draft. Otherwise you have to protect your new signing and potentially not protect a player you could otherwise keep if you got the timing right. Plus it is time to negotiate a new MLS/players collective bargaining agreement. Bez at the bbq speculated that the salary cap could go up by a million dollars. When the management side is mentioning such a leap, it will be interesting to see just where the cap ends up.

So an offseason tactic of stand pat and tinker is practically impossible. You prepare for one or two players out the door due to the expansion draft and an influx of seven players just based on your first round draft picks and filling all International Player roster spots.

Oldtimer
10-20-2014, 08:47 AM
I think for maximum MLS strangeness this process should work out with Toronto using the Chivas USA draft pick that was obtained in exchange for the rights to Carlos Bocanegra and then Toronto should use a subsequent dispersal draft of Chivas USA players to choose Carlos Bocanegra.


That would be awesome! Essentially TFC would be trading Carlos Bocanegra for Carlos Bocanegra! Only in MLS could this happen!

arsenal
10-20-2014, 08:54 AM
Best to look at the offseason rebuild as a series of moves.

TFC could gain a player in a dispersal draft of Chivas USA players?
This is a tricky, speculative area. Nothing official has been said yet. I think for maximum MLS strangeness this process should work out with Toronto using the Chivas USA draft pick that was obtained in exchange for the rights to Carlos Bocanegra and then Toronto should use a subsequent dispersal draft of Chivas USA players to choose Carlos Bocanegra.


Bocanegra has retired http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/09/04/longtime-usmnt-fixture-carlos-bocanegra-announces-retirement-soccer

Initial B
10-20-2014, 08:59 AM
^ Of course he has. That's just the way TFC luck goes.

Still Kicking
10-20-2014, 09:16 AM
Bocanegra has retired http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/09/04/longtime-usmnt-fixture-carlos-bocanegra-announces-retirement-soccer

Well that is the "no fun" news of the day. Fallback strangeness move would be to use a Chivas USA dispersal draft to pick Nathan Sturgis or Eric Avila....

Ruffian
10-20-2014, 09:26 AM
If MLS raises it's salary cap by one million next season I worry that since every MLS club will be scrambling to get talent with this new budget TFC will overspend on 2 or 3 mediocre players paying them ~$300,000 - $400,00 and give them multiple year contracts and really hurt TFC's cap situation for years to come.

Initial B
10-20-2014, 10:55 AM
^ Bez isn't that stupid, is he?

levyashin
10-20-2014, 11:02 AM
Looking forward to a starting squad next year is a true maze.
1;The College draft is 1st on the agenda 4picks maybe we would get 1 starter.
2;Chivas maybe 1 throw away player.
3;Who is protected from the draft;
--------------------------------Bendik-----------------------------------------
Creavalle--------Haggland----------------?-------------------Morrow
--?------------Osario----------------Bradley-----------------?
-------------------------?-----------Gilberto------------
4;According to the internet trolls;
Bloom(Orlando)--Henry (Europe)---Defoe(England)---Gilberto(I hope not)
These players are going or gone.
5;Who else is worth keeping;(MAYBE)
Warner--Lovitz--Roberts--Weideman--Dike--Aparacio--Jackson--Dero--.Manella--Hamilton
6;Who is disposable;
Konopka--Hall--Richter--Orr--Caldwell--Moore--Bekker--Odoro
7;Until all of the cards are stacked,shuffled and dealt out in January will we know how we end up.
8;Is Vaney the coach to take us to the promised land(a crystal ball would be great.)

Things to ponder for next season;1;2 expansion teams who will be no slouches
2;Houston and Kansas go to the west.
3;More money for players.
4;Every team will be better than this year.
5;THIS MEANS WE HAVE TO IMPROVE BY 4 FOLD TO GET INTO THE PLAY-OFFS
6;50 POINTS WILL BE NEEDED(Just for 4/5 spot.)
Take this and run with it folks.:drinking:

dutch
10-20-2014, 11:50 AM
I think the biggest thing to be done is whats happening with bezbatchenko and vanney. bez as a lawyer and capologist should not be GM, not after his firing stunt and on air comments. It showed his inexperience and frankly he's the man driving the whole ship. I believe our biggest move has got to be bringing in a coach with a history of winning, preferably with north american experience. This really is the million dollar question because I cant think of too many names, but it absolutely cant be vanney. As for players, I think gilberto gets another year. he's young powerfull and promising if nothing else. we would be stabbing our selves in the leg to get rid of him now. luke moore with 6 goals gets another chance, there were a few times this year where I wondered where the hell did this guy come from lol. hamilton is another one with alot of promise. I like jackson and oduro but thats just me, jackson is even more undisiplined that henry and morgan put togethor. I expect alot to come from bright dike or another devastating injury but keeping in mind his caps with the nigerian national team, he could be a very important piece for us next year. dero was not given enough playing time under nelson (500 min) he is our "gary roberts" or at least he is what they keep telling us caldwell is to the team. keep bradley as long as he wants to stay in canada and other than say...creavalle, osorio, hagglund, bendik, and manny. I couldnt care if I woke up and they had all been traded away. but please give us a real winning coach.

craz11
10-20-2014, 12:05 PM
Stability is the key to success in MLS. We have had neither (stability nor success). Players need to be developed by the club and allowed to succeed here. Just take a look at some of the guys we once had:
Joao Plata (RSL): 13G
Max Urutti (POR): 9G
Luis Silva: (DCU): 11G

Hypothetically, these guys could all be playing together for TFC. Although realistically, Kevin Payne shipped out Plata and Silva in favour of Urutti and Laba, but still Urutti and Laba is better than most of what we have. Oh, and they're all U25.

No one could have predicted the Bloody Big Disaster of 2014, but the lead up to it (sacking Kevin Payne, shipping out Urruti and Laba, and eventually firing Ryan Nelsen) has set us back yet again.

The closest we ever got to the playoffs was 2009 - if you don't recall, a win vs NYRB, the worst team in the league that year, would have put us into the playoffs. 2009 was the 3rd year under Mo Johnston's leadership.

Since then:
2010 - Preki was a mistake. Mo's mob gets handed their walking papers.
2011-2012 - Aron Wimter's Total Football experiment turns into Total Mess with Mariner
2013 - Kevin Payne (unsuccessfully) chases world-renowned talent. Signs Max Urutti instead. Says we need to build from within.
2014 - Bloody Big Gong-Show

It's no coincidence.

That said, I think Vanney and Bezbatchenko need to go. lol.

Ultra & Proud
10-20-2014, 12:42 PM
As far as I am concerned next season is over already. We are keeping Vanney and that will do it. I expect a ton of turnover and as usual a few players being dumped that shouldn't be. I know Vanney is inheriting Nelsen's roster and it's being used as a crutch to defend our poor play down the stretch but this squad, who may have given up on Nelsen, were still playoff bound and playing tougher on both ends of the pitch than they were under Vanney. Vanney may know X's and O's and maybe he is a great tactician weven though I have seen nothing to support that but he is no motivator. With the season on the line for the past month and a bit he couldn't even muster the dead cat bounce that most new managers get. Even Mariner got that. If we even had a brief one we'd be playoff bound now. Of course it's on the players for not being 'up' for these matches and not all on the manager but it's obvious we have a mentally weak squad and they needed the prodding. We clearly need a motivator and a tactician if we keep the core together. Vanney isn't both.

dutch
10-20-2014, 12:42 PM
bezbachenko should work with scouts, and signings. not allowed to touch anything but the cash register.

bones
10-20-2014, 01:07 PM
We may get 4 first round pics but will any of them be any good? The Chivas pick that everyone is saying is going to be 3rd could be as high as 7th if you do the math. 7th! WTF are we going to do with picks above 1 or 2 given MLSE's track record...

Ultra & Proud
10-20-2014, 01:14 PM
We may get 4 first round pics but will any of them be any good? The Chivas pick that everyone is saying is going to be 3rd could be as high as 7th if you do the math. 7th! WTF are we going to do with picks above 1 or 2 given MLSE's track record...
I don't think you can blame the board at MLSE for our draft record but I know what you mean.

So what are we going to do with these picks? Waste them. No question.

portu
10-20-2014, 01:22 PM
What's the fourth pick?
I know of Portland's, Chivas' and our own.

Areathrasher
10-20-2014, 01:26 PM
Seattle from the Frei trade.

And we did pretty well scooping up Hagglund and Lovitz this year, i'd be fairly optimistic about this years draft.

Still Kicking
10-20-2014, 01:27 PM
What's the fourth pick?
I know of Portland's, Chivas' and our own.
Seattle from the Frei trade (although it is described as conditional, as is our second round pick to KC).

TFC Kevin
10-20-2014, 04:12 PM
Does anybody have a list of who's under contract for next year, preferably with how long their contract is until too?
I talked with Hagglund for a bit, he wants to be back here next season.

and I also would like the keep Oduro, speedy player who draws free kicks and can create something from using his speed.

jloome
10-20-2014, 04:17 PM
Our first priority needs to be a CB.
we need a replacement for Defoe.
we need a partner for Bradley if Osorio isnt going to play with him (not Warner or Bekker)
we need some wingers. Jackson and Oduro or Osorio on the wing hasn't gone too well this year.

Not impossible to fix, but no faith they can do it.

We will have some money if some players get sold/released (cough DeRo)

There are so many options out there. I'd bet they'd get some decent ideas just by going to Gilberto and saying (in Portuguese) "Who do you know in S.A. who will give us a dominating performance at the AM, always get you the ball, and wants to play here?" Let the flood gates open. Once the word gets around to agents down there that we're looking, TFC will have significant options. MLS has basically done that via contacts in the past to get interest from the likes of Valeri and Morales, so there's no reason we can't.

Ultra & Proud
10-20-2014, 05:11 PM
MLS has basically done that via contacts in the past to get interest from the likes of Valeri and Morales, so there's no reason we can't.
The main and only reason we can't is that we're us and that's enough to ensure something this logical will not happen here. Dunce caps 4 life.

Doucet3
10-20-2014, 05:25 PM
So are you suggesting we get rid of (or lose) both Henry and Hagglund? Agree that we need to improve at CB, but Hagglund way surpassed expectations, and despite a few bonehead moves Henry has at least played as well as I expected this season (including a few key tackles today). At the least one or both should be kept for depth.

Agree Henry i don't is good enough for Europe to be making much more then he is here so why not stay in Toronto for his home team, could be a good MLS regular, Hagglund similar to Henry solid MLSer in the future but need toe stay with us and it'll be a bit... experienced CB's needed


;1701837']I guess Jloome beat me to a thread about the rebuild, but here's my players to build on for next year based on the current lineup and players signed.


----------------------------------1.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------2. Bendik--------------------------------
----------------------------------3.[X]----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.[X]----------------1.[X]------------1. Henry----------1.Morrow
2.Bloom-----------2.Haggalund---------2.[X]--------------2.Morgan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------1.Jackson-----------1.Bradley--------------------
------------------2.Creavalle-----------2.Warner---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Moore----------------------1.Defoe------------------------1.[X]-
2.Osorio-----------------------2.[X]-------------------------2.Bekker
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------1.Gilberto-----------------------------
--------------------------------2.Oduro-------------------------------

Loaned Out:

1. Roberts
2. Aparacio
3. Manella
4. Lovitz

Released:

1. Konopka
2. Dike
3. Wiedeman
4. Hall
5. Richter
6. Orr
7. Caldwell

No... lol just so much wrong with this, i agree with what Prizby said about it, aside from Henry and Osorio i think they'll be here next year.

Gilberto - From what i gathered after the shitpact game when i talked to Gilbby and Gilb's translator he is very much staying on his end, I'm assuming with head office selling Defoe in january he's staying on there end as well, He seemed excited to stay and his translator seemed very sure he wasn't going any where.

Henry - Seemed a bit off but that dosnt mean he's not staying... i think he was a little down about Hag's taking his starter spot. It would be a big mistake to let him go cause Nick had a great rookie year, i could see Hagglund and Henry as the future .. not the present but henry could even be a good wingback. either way i think he's staying but needs some confidence and a fair crack at some games.

DeRosario - I think he did alright but just 100,000 alright if that, id like to see him stay at his currently games level, he didn't play terrible but not even squad rotation... a spare at best
Caldwell - We need a upgrade to pair with him and help Henry and Hagglund grow... i'd like him to stay and see it next year but could also see someone else coming in more experienced and take his spot awayWhen it comes to our wings, Jackson is gone i think, Oduro maybe not... at least not till we get someone a lot better, Lovitz was a nice addition i see him getting a bit more time next year.

Ruffian
10-20-2014, 06:34 PM
not the present but henry could even be a good wingback. either way i think he's staying but needs some confidence and a fair crack at some games.

Henry is definitely not a wing back. Did you see his performance with Canada? Can' cross. Unsure what to do on the attack. He is a STUD centre defender. He is dominant 1 on 1 and can cover ground to work well with a good back four.

ensco
10-20-2014, 07:30 PM
Henry is definitely not a wing back. Did you see his performance with Canada? Can' cross. Unsure what to do on the attack. He is a STUD centre defender. He is dominant 1 on 1 and can cover ground to work well with a good back four.

Nope. Henry looks like he should be a stud, but he is way too aggressive. Constantly overcommits. Doesn't let the play come to him.

I thought Nelsen would do wonders for Henry, but he hasn't improved much in two years.

molenshtain
10-20-2014, 07:42 PM
Nope. Henry looks like he should be a stud, but he is way too aggressive. Constantly overcommits. Doesn't let the play come to him.

I thought Nelsen would do wonders for Henry, but he hasn't improved much in two years.

Henry improved immensly this year in his ability to beat guys 1 on 1 for the ball and his ability to attack the ball in the air. He's still slightly behind in his positioning and over-commitment but that's something that takes a while for a lot of CB's to get.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-20-2014, 07:48 PM
Well that is the "no fun" news of the day. Fallback strangeness move would be to use a Chivas USA dispersal draft to pick Nathan Sturgis or Eric Avila....

Avila is going to Mexico (sorry, i wouldnt have minded him either)

Doucet3
10-20-2014, 08:20 PM
If we keep this team similar but cut some dead wait like many are saying and are just a couple players away, and to put it bluntly and out there we need a MLS veteran CB, 2 Wingers, AM, Striker, and a C(D)M

Jpexxx
10-20-2014, 09:13 PM
Well that is the "no fun" news of the day. Fallback strangeness move would be to use a Chivas USA dispersal draft to pick Nathan Sturgis or Eric Avila....


May have been posted by someone else, goin thru the thread chronologically.

Pretty sure Avila is going to Mexico (Santos Laguna)

prizby
10-20-2014, 09:58 PM
--------------------------------Bendik-----------------------------------------
Creavalle--------Haggland----------------?-------------------Morrow
--?------------Osario----------------Bradley-----------------?
-------------------------?-----------Gilberto------------


i wouldnt be surprised if 2 of the players above are gone this off season

prizby
10-20-2014, 09:59 PM
Does anybody have a list of who's under contract for next year, preferably with how long their contract is until too?
I talked with Hagglund for a bit, he wants to be back here next season.

and I also would like the keep Oduro, speedy player who draws free kicks and can create something from using his speed.

Caldwell is guaranteed; but you are allowed 1 buy-out a year; i think with 1 year left, the need for experience, the unlikelihood of tfc ever finding 2 starting caliber cbs on the open market in the winter, tfc will keep him unless he goes in the expansion draft

jloome
10-20-2014, 10:18 PM
i wouldnt be surprised if 2 of the players above are gone this off season

I bet Yohan has a list of MLS players we should target.

bones
10-21-2014, 07:32 AM
I don't think you can blame the board at MLSE for our draft record but I know what you mean.

So what are we going to do with these picks? Waste them. No question.

Of course I didn't mean to put blame on them directly however, I was going for more of...any team owned by MLSE has issues drafting well given good pics, not always (DeRozan), but just seems more than normal. With MLSE owned teams having a propensity to suck, you'd think we'd own multiple titles with just our draft picks by now.

molenshtain
10-21-2014, 07:36 AM
Of course I didn't mean to put blame on them directly however, I was going for more of...any team owned by MLSE has issues drafting well given good pics, not always (DeRozan), but just seems more than normal. With MLSE owned teams having a propensity to suck, you'd think we'd own multiple titles with just our draft picks by now.

MLSE teams never suck enough to bottom out and get the best draft picks.

bones
10-21-2014, 07:40 AM
MLSE teams never suck enough to bottom out and get the best draft picks.

As a Raptors fan of many season I have a problem with this statement ;)

MightyDM
10-21-2014, 07:52 AM
2014 didn't suck. 2014 ended badly but began brilliantly. There were fantastic moments - Seattle, Columbus times three, Portland - and some depressing ones too. We learned that Bradley is brilliant but tries to do too much; buying an England player is tricky; DeRo still has something in the tank; saw improvement in some of our younger players, albeit with a question about whether they will ever have enough to start on a winning team; and added some useful pieces. Getting rid of Nelsen during the season was a big error and we have a fundamental question now about whether to keep Vanney as head coach or not ( I am with the experienced coach group). Yes, the season was no where what it should have been, but I am not going to rewrite history - there were fabulous moments this season and lots to build on for the next several years. It's not all doom and gloom.

PopePouri
10-21-2014, 09:19 AM
I'll take a gander on the players we should target.

Firstly, we need an AM to build the team around and then it's a question of whether we play a diamond or 4-2-3-1.

Darlington Nagbe - Porter can't get the best out of him so his stock has dropped. If we stick with the narrow diamond, he will probably be more effective on one of the sides or in a 4-2-3-1. He'll also suit Vanney's emphasis on possession.
Kekuta Manneh - No brainer. Hopefully "future considerations" means someone like him in return. Vancouver has loads of options on the wing and we need goals from midfield. Can play out wide in a 4-2-3-1 or a smaller forward in a diamond.
Amobi Okugo - He's playing second fiddle to Edu right now and we need a proper DM or CB who can distribute.
Jeff Parke - May not get much playing time next year with Birnbaum and Boswell as starters. Question marks on whether he can stay injury free but he's an experienced MLS CB. The type of player we need.

Detroit_TFC
10-21-2014, 09:29 AM
To me Vanney seems like the kind of guy you want as assistant coach but I'm not at all convinced about HC. We need someone with tactical expertise and is skilled at using what he has rather than complaining about what he doesn't have. There might be a few people who fit that bill but it would take getting them out of their current jobs and frankly, you'd have to be a glutton for punishment to take on the TFC job.

It's hard to see anyone midcareer coming to TFC unless a staggering amount of money is laid out and that window has closed I'm afraid.

pdubs
10-21-2014, 10:47 AM
To me Vanney seems like the kind of guy you want as assistant coach but I'm not at all convinced about HC. We need someone with tactical expertise and is skilled at using what he has rather than complaining about what he doesn't have. There might be a few people who fit that bill but it would take getting them out of their current jobs and frankly, you'd have to be a glutton for punishment to take on the TFC job.

It's hard to see anyone midcareer coming to TFC unless a staggering amount of money is laid out and that window has closed I'm afraid.

I think Nelson and Vanney would make good assistant coaches. Unfortunately this doesn't seem probable with Vanney and too late with Nelson obviously. Similar argument could be made with Bez. Good talent, no experience, assistant GM role or something learning from someone who has done it before. Do you need coaching experience to be succesful in MLS? Idk certainly people can point to multiple examples where this is not the case. In those instances did they have a strong GM with good assitant managers?

Maybe Vanney will work out idk. I like how he talks and the way he says he wants to build this team. I liked things about Nelson as well. I just feel like we are short changing ourselves with people in key positions who in reality should be assistants except for the fact that maybe politics are involved. (Payne to Nelson, TL to Bez, Bez to Vanney) I think targeting someone like a Sigi Schmid like person with lots of experience within the league is key to establishing us as credible to the fans and the league. This person is not available? Idk money talks and MLSE has lots of it.

I believe someone mention Bruce Arena was making about 1 million at LA. Well for the sake of conversation (it is not my money) we offer him 5 million with no strings attached (bring in who you want in all key areas). Seem outrageous? Correct me if I am wrong but Bradley was making about 1.5 million at Roma and now is making 6.5 million with us. As far as I know coaches, training staff, ect, ect have no cap requirements within MLS? Should MLSE be taking advantage of this? Throw weight around and yes, overpay but overpay for people with proven track records (Arena, Schmid, Bob Bradley)

No one wants to come? Well how our we selling them? Why didn't we get a more experience GM other than Bez? We now know keeping Nelson was mandatory. Why was it mandatory? Defoe, Cesar and possible others were in the pipeline under Nelson. But recruiting players does not make you a good manager.

Sorry for the mini rant but I feel we continuously handicap ourselves in areas that we should be excelling at (ie areas with no financial cap). We have one of the best training facilities within MLS. Well do we have the best trainers? Do we have the best manager and assistants. The best GM money can buy?

edit- scouting should be included in this. Recently I think we our improving with this - Laba, Urruti and Gilberto. We need to continue (hanging onto these players is another matter LOL). Certainly with our resources we should be leading MLS with acquiring good, young South American talent. And we do have the money (Defoe at 6 million a year for 3 years, Bradley at 6.5 million for 6 years).

jloome
10-21-2014, 11:55 AM
By this standard, half the teams in MLS wouldn't have a coach right now. This is where they get the experience. We ARE the experience. This is a second div league at best, maybe third, and the foreign guys who come in are always going to be either a) trying to get their first head coaching job, ala Carver or Winter or b) famously nuts, like Schallibaum and El Chelis.

Stick with Vanney for, like, three years. This isn't Mo; no one else has had that sort of time to build and almost anyone other than Mo who knows the league would probably already have gotten it done by then. Like Preki said last week, "if Toronto had stuck with me, they'd have been champions within five years." He might have been right. You need the pieces, not just the coaching. That's usually hard to build in one season, and yet that's what a foreign coach -- ala Gullitt -- will expect.

jloome
10-21-2014, 11:59 AM
DeRo still has something in the tank

He rarely looked like he had much more than one goal in the tank. As for Nelsen, perhaps it was a style-of-play thing and I wasn't recognizing it, but I didn't think the players believed in what he was selling. They were playing 1-0 bunker football in a league that presses high constantly and every team had figured us out. The stuff about his refusing to use statistical analysis or alter tactics from game to game may be hyperbole, but it may also be true.

Former premiership-level (i.e. top league level worldwide) players frequently flame out in their first job (or all) when they discover that being better at everyone at playing doesn't translate to coaching well.

TFC Kevin
10-21-2014, 12:30 PM
Does anyone one know which salary counts against the cap? The base or the guaranteed compensation salary?

Yohan
10-21-2014, 12:45 PM
Does anyone one know which salary counts against the cap? The base or the guaranteed compensation salary?
some weird formula that's somewhere in between

pdubs
10-21-2014, 12:46 PM
By this standard, half the teams in MLS wouldn't have a coach right now. This is where they get the experience. We ARE the experience. This is a second div league at best, maybe third, and the foreign guys who come in are always going to be either a) trying to get their first head coaching job, ala Carver or Winter or b) famously nuts, like Schallibaum and El Chelis.

Stick with Vanney for, like, three years. This isn't Mo; no one else has had that sort of time to build and almost anyone other than Mo who knows the league would probably already have gotten it done by then. Like Preki said last week, "if Toronto had stuck with me, they'd have been champions within five years." He might have been right. You need the pieces, not just the coaching. That's usually hard to build in one season, and yet that's what a foreign coach -- ala Gullitt -- will expect.

I agree we need stability more than anything. I like Vanney and everything he says. Arena says he should be given time, so maybe we should consider an extended run with him. The problem is that on the surface this looks like the same type of situation we have been dealing with for years. No experience and basically no credibility. Doesn't mean Vanney doesn't have the potential for success. However we are building 10,000 more seats next year that we have to fill (if we similar crowds to how this year finished... yeash. If our competitiveness doesn't improve quickly will the fanbase and media be on board with "waiting" and given Vanney "time"? Seems quite similar to Nelson's tenure here.

I am not concerned that half the teams in MLS have managers with no experience. I am saying we as a club our in a unique situation in many ways. We have had no success in 8 seasons. We need to fill 30,000 seats next year. Confidence and PR was at an all time high with the changes we made this season. Now we are in a PR... nightmare is probably too strong but certainly it is not a good situation. It has the flavour of a revolving door. All I am saying is if we have the opportunity (and why shouldn't we... again money talks I don't care what anyone says) then we should pursue a manager 'that has done it before". Certainly someone like a Arena or Schmid (or someone in that ilk) is easier to sell to the fan base that they need to be given 3 years to implement their plan then like somone of Vanney, Nelson or however's ilk. That is all I am saying aha. TL had the perfect opportunity for this - he should of fired Nelson and big in a manager of the same quality as the DP's he was targeting for this team.

Ultra & Proud
10-21-2014, 12:53 PM
MLSE teams never suck enough to bottom out and get the best draft picks.
We have. We are all about the wooden spoon chase usually.

gdg_9
10-21-2014, 12:54 PM
From the soccer reporter at the Orlando Sentinel:



Paul Tenorio ‏@PaulTenorio (https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio) 39m39 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/524607763641827329) Could see OCSC moving top pick to Toronto, which wants Larin, in exchange for Chivas 1st-rder Toronto owns + more. Then take Khiry/Besler.




Curious what the "+ more" would be...

Lumpy
10-21-2014, 12:58 PM
He rarely looked like he had much more than one goal in the tank. As for Nelsen, perhaps it was a style-of-play thing and I wasn't recognizing it, but I didn't think the players believed in what he was selling. They were playing 1-0 bunker football in a league that presses high constantly and every team had figured us out. The stuff about his refusing to use statistical analysis or alter tactics from game to game may be hyperbole, but it may also be true.

Former premiership-level (i.e. top league level worldwide) players frequently flame out in their first job (or all) when they discover that being better at everyone at playing doesn't translate to coaching well.

Other than Dero who allegedly crawled into upper management offices to complain about his playing time I have heard nothing substantive to suggest Nelsen lost the team. Your point about other teams figuring out Nelsen's style is laughable as the team averaged 1.45 goals game under him while we have averaged 1.00 measly goals a game under Vanney. Using your logic Vanney has been totally exposed in only 9 games. If the club is using any kind of statistical analysis now they would come to the inevitable conclusion that Vanney should be demoted based upon goals-for stats. Fire or demote Vanney now. He has turned a third-place club which used to score 1.45 goals a game into one that scores 1.00 goals per game and sits in 7th place.

OgtheDim
10-21-2014, 01:08 PM
From the soccer reporter at the Orlando Sentinel:




Curious what the "+ more" would be...

Anything more then allocation is too much. 19 year old strikers are not can't miss have to draft them types.

gdg_9
10-21-2014, 01:54 PM
Other than Dero who allegedly crawled into upper management offices to complain about his playing time I have heard nothing substantive to suggest Nelsen lost the team. Your point about other teams figuring out Nelsen's style is laughable as the team averaged 1.45 goals game under him while we have averaged 1.00 measly goals a game under Vanney. Using your logic Vanney has been totally exposed in only 9 games. If the club is using any kind of statistical analysis now they would come to the inevitable conclusion that Vanney should be demoted based upon goals-for stats. Fire or demote Vanney now. He has turned a third-place club which used to score 1.45 goals a game into one that scores 1.00 goals per game and sits in 7th place.

Many people have heard this.
It's been implied by a few people covering the team, and I was told the same thing by someone who works directly with the players the night before Nelson was fired. Was told several of the guys couldn't stand him.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-21-2014, 02:33 PM
Many people have heard this.
It's been implied by a few people covering the team, and I was told the same thing by someone who works directly with the players the night before Nelson was fired. Was told several of the guys couldn't stand him.

the fact that they had only won 3 in 13 of his last games and that game against NE should suggest he had lost the locker room alone. People believe what people wanna believe.

Lumpy
10-21-2014, 04:06 PM
the fact that they had only won 3 in 13 of his last games and that game against NE should suggest he had lost the locker room alone. People believe what people wanna believe.

Wow I guess using this kind of logic Vanney has lost the locker room for sure as he has only won 2 out of 9 games and knocked them all the way down to 7th place from 3rd. Actually my belief is that Vanney never really had the locker room and never will. He is Bez's stooge who was parachuted in to save the day after Nelsen pissed Bez off but the problem has been made worse instead of better. This I do believe.

jloome
10-21-2014, 04:25 PM
Other than Dero who allegedly crawled into upper management offices to complain about his playing time I have heard nothing substantive to suggest Nelsen lost the team. Your point about other teams figuring out Nelsen's style is laughable as the team averaged 1.45 goals game under him while we have averaged 1.00 measly goals a game under Vanney. Using your logic Vanney has been totally exposed in only 9 games. If the club is using any kind of statistical analysis now they would come to the inevitable conclusion that Vanney should be demoted based upon goals-for stats. Fire or demote Vanney now. He has turned a third-place club which used to score 1.45 goals a game into one that scores 1.00 goals per game and sits in 7th place.

..Except that most of those were scored by Jermain Defoe, who had eleven goals in the first half of the season.

Once that was gone, we were pretty impotent.

Lumpy
10-21-2014, 05:45 PM
..Except that most of those were scored by Jermain Defoe, who had eleven goals in the first half of the season.

Once that was gone, we were pretty impotent.

There is no doubt that Defoe helped in the goal total but it should be noted that he scored only 11 of the 35 goals that were scored during Nelsen's tenure. Without him starting, under Nelsen, the team's goal per game did indeed drop from 1.45 to 1.33. Not very significant though. As mentioned in my previous post Vanney has been averaging only 1.00 goals-for in his 9 games. Quite a significant drop especially when he had talked up his brand new "attacking" style. I think our goal scoring problems and our defensive problems are being caused by our midfield which Vanney has not helped by playing Bekker and Osorio a lot and letting Bradley do as he pleases.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-21-2014, 05:52 PM
Wow I guess using this kind of logic Vanney has lost the locker room for sure as he has only won 2 out of 9 games and knocked them all the way down to 7th place from 3rd. Actually my belief is that Vanney never really had the locker room and never will. He is Bez's stooge who was parachuted in to save the day after Nelsen pissed Bez off but the problem has been made worse instead of better. This I do believe.

really? In that short turn around he already lost the locker room?
Players he didnt intend to bring in?
nah man, sorry, i see what youre saying and we can agree to disagree

Yohan
10-21-2014, 06:24 PM
Anything more then allocation is too much. 19 year old strikers are not can't miss have to draft them types.
allocation is exactly what TFC got for going down to #4 pick in 2013 draft...

jazzy
10-21-2014, 07:17 PM
Henry improved immensly this year in his ability to beat guys 1 on 1 for the ball and his ability to attack the ball in the air. He's still slightly behind in his positioning and over-commitment but that's something that takes a while for a lot of CB's to get.

and he has a great soccer IQ....he has saved us from many sure goals with his tackles. Yes I wish he could be cautious as well , not sure he will be but he is fast and fearless to go after that ballplayer in the box . And yes give us an heart attack doing it . All in all we have to believe in some of our local youth because we will never simply buy or trade every part needed for a championship team . How many 'foreigners' really want to stay and play here . We need heart . Is it Henry,? Maybe not but if we continually play Russian roulette searching for 'THE' perfect team , it will be groundhog day forever . BTW he probably is leaving .

portu
10-21-2014, 08:37 PM
From the soccer reporter at the Orlando Sentinel:




Curious what the "+ more" would be...
I'd be willing to bet my life that it would some how involve Bloom.

portu
10-21-2014, 08:41 PM
Does anybody know exactly how good Larin is anyways?

molenshtain
10-21-2014, 08:45 PM
Does anybody know exactly how good Larin is anyways?

real good. about as talented as Hamilton I'd say.

portu
10-21-2014, 08:56 PM
real good. about as talented as Hamilton I'd say.
So then the expectation would be that he be a solid depth player in his first year?

molenshtain
10-21-2014, 09:06 PM
So then the expectation would be that he be a solid depth player in his first year?

at least, yeah. He's bigger and a year older than JH, so he'd probably do better in MLS to start with.

Hamilton_Red
10-21-2014, 10:51 PM
MLSE teams never suck enough to bottom out and get the best draft picks.

when they do get a top draft..they typically trade them for a dud. To think we traded our Manneh draft spot...for nothing.

jloome
10-21-2014, 10:55 PM
at least, yeah. He's bigger and a year older than JH, so he'd probably do better in MLS to start with.

I would rate him higher than Hamilton. He's just as big and strong, but he's faster and can create his own space to shoot. Also has a quick release. I'd compare him to DeShorn Brown, but a bit stronger and a little less fast. Good acceleration though. He was a bit wasteful last year and could have done better than 14 in 23. But by MLS standards he's pretty blue chip.

EDIT: He reminds me of Simeon Jackson but bigger and stronger.

MightyDM
10-22-2014, 12:00 AM
He rarely looked like he had much more than one goal in the tank. As for Nelsen, perhaps it was a style-of-play thing and I wasn't recognizing it, but I didn't think the players believed in what he was selling. They were playing 1-0 bunker football in a league that presses high constantly and every team had figured us out. The stuff about his refusing to use statistical analysis or alter tactics from game to game may be hyperbole, but it may also be true.

Former premiership-level (i.e. top league level worldwide) players frequently flame out in their first job (or all) when they discover that being better at everyone at playing doesn't translate to coaching well.

Nelsens playing attribute was hard work. And those kind of players often do make good coaches, it's the natural athletes who do not.

Yohan
10-22-2014, 01:16 AM
Few players I'd look at, and likely available for a decent price

Leandro Barrera, Chivas USA, 23, LW
-Laba's friend from Argentino Jrs on loan. Did ok on a poor Chivas USA squad. Ok pace but has decent technical skills. Might be worth a look on another loan, or buy if he's cheap enough.

Erick Torres, Chivas USA, 21, ST
-1 in 2 strike rate and he'll only get better. Proved himself in MLS last season and half and on Mexican National team. He has a hefty buy fee, but he's worth it, esp TFC dumps Defoe and reuse Defoe's transfer fee on Torres. Torres is essentially younger Defoe without the attitude.

Chris Klute, Colorado, 24, LB/RB
-One of best FB in MLS in 2013, stock dropped a bit in 2014, though Rapids as a whole had a terrible season. Can play both LB/RB and loves to go up the flank to whip in a good cross. Needs to be more responsible defensively IMO, but he's probably best bang for buck FB out there. And considering how clueless Rapids FO has been lately, they might let him go.

Nick DeLeon, DCU, 24, LM
-Talented, but inconsistent. Head might not totally be all there. Can't deny that DeLeon has buckets of talent, and might be worth a shot at LM, where he likes to cut inside to the centre, which is exactly what Vanney seems to want out of his left midfielders. And he's on an affordable salary still.

Chris Pontius, DCU, 27, LM/ST
-Pontius was one of best LM for a while. Then he got seriously injured and now just starting to come around again. So damaged goods on a high salary. But if he stays healthy, the pay off would be huge.

George John, FCD, 27, CB
-Coming off a serious knee injury. Haven't played all season. But another huge risk (with huge salary) with potential for huge pay off. John is just slightly worse than Chad Marshall IMO and when healthy, he's cornerstone of your defence.

Brad Davis, HOU, 32, LM
-As ridiculous this may sound, but Brad Davis might be available, if the price is right. Houston may be in retooling mode with a new GM and manager coming in. And to generate allocation money and draft picks, Brad Davis is Houston's biggest asset for trade still, plus Houston creates cap space from Davis's huge salary. Davis is 32, and still has few more years left in tank, but he'll slowly decline. But as a wide midfielder, pace has never been key part of Davis's game. High footy IQ and cultured left foot that is especially deadly on set pieces.

Todd Dunivant, LAG, 33, LB
-Age might have finally caught up to one of most reliable LBs in MLS. Coming off a bad injury, lost his spot to Robbie Rogers and Arena probably thinks Dunivant is expendable to create a little bit of cap room. I still think he's got few more years left as a wily, defence first LB who won't do a lot wrong at LB. Certainly better depth than Morgan.

Darrius Barnes, NER, 27, RB
-Fully recovered from cancer. Prototype MLS fullback. Good athleticism, prone to occassional brainfart. Lost his spot to Andrew Farrell. He won't add much on defence, but he's normally reliable as fullback for the salary.

Diego Fagundez, NER, 19, RW
-Something went wrong for Fagundez this season when the rest of NER midfield kicked it to next level. Still one of highly touted prospects. It'll cost a lot to get him, but this is probably the only time he'll give Revs FO a second thought about trading him, if the offer is enticing enough.

Austin Berry, PHI, 26, CB
-Personally, I think Berry is underrated. Not flashy at all, but just solid 2nd/3rd CB for a team.

Zac MacMath, PHI, 23, GK
-Philly is going with Mbolhi next season, making MacMath expendable esp with Andre Blake taking up back up spot. He's just too good at his age to not be traded to another team, even if he's got his share of brain farts. I don't think he's better than Bendik, but he does stop PKs fairly well.

Amobi Okugo, PHI, 23, CB/DM
-Something weird is going on in Philly that Okugo, who used to be a starter isn't quite getting mins he used to. Converted DM into CB, he just does the job without fuss, and he'll run forever. He's nice for Philly to have as utility guy, but if Philly goes with Edu/Valdes at CB next season, Okugo might be a tempting tradebait.

Michael Harrington, POR, 28, LB/RB
-Another versatile player who can play LB and RB. Porter is going with younger and cheaper options at FB, and Harrington becomes odd man out. Again, another prototype MLS FB. Not a lot of flash, but he does the job.

Sam Cronin, SJ, 27, DM/CM
-Time to bring back Cronin? Another guy who is ok, never brilliant, just seems to get under the radar. It feels like he does everything ok, and no real faults. (if any, he's not physical enough to play destroyer DM role) SJ in transition may want to get something for Cronin. Does Kinnear rate Cronin?

JJ Koval, SJ, 22, DM
-He reminds me a lot of Cronin when he joined TFC, except a little better defensively. He hasn't quite found his place at SJ, but I think he has potential to bloom into quite a good MLS DM.

Dylan Remick, SEA, 23, LB
-Pure athlete with pace. Keeps everything simple. Right now depth LB at Seattle, but I think he'll be a starter within next 2 years if he gets a chance. Did not look out of place when he did get a string of starts early in the season for Seattle. He's good enough to be a MLS starter IMO.

PopePouri
10-22-2014, 08:51 AM
I'd put Corey Ashe in there as well.

Ruffian
10-22-2014, 09:28 AM
I'd put Corey Ashe in there as well.

He would cost us a lot and we already have Morrow who plays the same position and is probably pretty similar in skills.

PopePouri
10-22-2014, 09:58 AM
He would cost us a lot and we already have Morrow who plays the same position and is probably pretty similar in skills.

His salary was 160k this year. We could move Morrow to CB who was excellent in Chicago (then again, they have no big no. 9). It could fix a number of issues we have though especially if he plays alongside Caldwell because he's good on the ball and sound defensively. I'm not a fan of him when he goes forward.

It must be an option for Vanney as he builds for next year.

Still Kicking
10-22-2014, 10:14 AM
This might just be wild speculation, but could Kyle Bekker be converted to a RB ?
I suspect that the midfield spots are going to be further congested with signings/draft picks/trades in the offseason...

MartinUtd
10-22-2014, 10:17 AM
This might just be wild speculation, but could Kyle Bekker be converted to a RB ?
I suspect that the midfield spots are going to be further congested with signings/draft picks/trades in the offseason...

Bekker's tackling doens't inspire confidence.

Ruffian
10-22-2014, 11:24 AM
I am actually hoping management is able to keep all 3 of our DPs. Both Defoe and Bradley have been in season for over a year since they were playing in Europe before coming to MLS. I think if they had an off-season they may be able to help this team more. Both of them have lingering health issues, Defoe with his groin and Bradley with his foot issues. Hopefully they can get better over the winter.

Detroit_TFC
10-22-2014, 01:37 PM
It's a big question mark to me. If Harry Redknapp isn't at QPR pushing for Defoe, is Tony Fernandes still willing to make the deal he was willing to make back in August. I doubt it. Defoe is going to find it hard to find a deal as sweet as that one. How much of a pay cut would Defoe accept to get out?

edit: I get Redknapp and Hodgson confused. Well, they are basically the same person in two different bodies. :)

Still Kicking
10-22-2014, 03:49 PM
It's a big question mark to me. If Roy Hodgson isn't at QPR pushing for Defoe, is Tony Fernandes still willing to make the deal he was willing to make back in August. I doubt it. Defoe is going to find it hard to find a deal as sweet as that one. How much of a pay cut would Defoe accept to get out?

I think you mean Harry Redknapp, but I understand and agree with your argument . Defoe was away when he should have been here. He was silent when he should have been vocal. Still I think too many factors keep him here for the seasons ahead. Even if he were so keen to go back that he was willing to take a pay cut, would his agent go along with such a deal?

OgtheDim
10-22-2014, 04:14 PM
Is Defoe capable of being the top man in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1? He ain't got the mind to go farther back and start passing. (although he's a darn good passer of the ball for this league)

portu
10-22-2014, 05:03 PM
It's a big question mark to me. If Roy Hodgson isn't at QPR pushing for Defoe, is Tony Fernandes still willing to make the deal he was willing to make back in August. I doubt it. Defoe is going to find it hard to find a deal as sweet as that one. How much of a pay cut would Defoe accept to get out?

Defoe hasd waaay more suitors than just QPR.. Hull City and Leicester come to mind.

If he's fit we'll get at least $9m for him from one club or another.

Derko
10-22-2014, 06:16 PM
Bekker's tackling doens't inspire confidence.

Bekker's got no Fucking aggression what so ever. Bench strength or trade him, imho

Fushida
10-22-2014, 06:54 PM
Some guys I've been keeping an eye on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irven_%C3%81vila

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/josef-husbauer/46205/OOPS! Scratch him, signed by Cagliari for next season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Lei

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/takashi-usami/74703/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/andres-chavez/193778/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/mbwana-samatta/175962/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/roger-fabricio-rojas/69429/

Wu Lei is a solid player but has 0% chance of coming here. They've already rejected bids from European teams (Molde made an offer 2 years ago when Solskjaer was still coach, FC Copenhagen bid this pre-season and were rejected). Their owner values him as being able to play for top tier teams in Europe - which I don't think can happen personally - so he's probably not going to come here barring a massive transfer offer. Not going to happen because despite his clear ability and his record, he's an unproven player in an inferior league.

Usami's valued pretty highly by Gamba and is trying to break into the Japanese NT, though he's pretty down the pecking order. Given that he's had European experience, it's probably not likely that he'll end up in MLS any time soon.

I'd love to see either of them here for some Asian content but honestly it's probably safer and cheaper to go with the typical South American imports than from Asia, where players are grossly overvalued.

jloome
10-22-2014, 10:35 PM
Wu Lei is a solid player but has 0% chance of coming here. They've already rejected bids from European teams (Molde made an offer 2 years ago when Solskjaer was still coach, FC Copenhagen bid this pre-season and were rejected). Their owner values him as being able to play for top tier teams in Europe - which I don't think can happen personally - so he's probably not going to come here barring a massive transfer offer. Not going to happen because despite his clear ability and his record, he's an unproven player in an inferior league.

Usami's valued pretty highly by Gamba and is trying to break into the Japanese NT, though he's pretty down the pecking order. Given that he's had European experience, it's probably not likely that he'll end up in MLS any time soon.

I'd love to see either of them here for some Asian content but honestly it's probably safer and cheaper to go with the typical South American imports than from Asia, where players are grossly overvalued.

Yeah, I know, but I think both would make good DPs, at least at the cheaper level. Wu scores big goals and would be a great draw a the box office, as well; he's never going to be a regular starter at a major club; if they think that they're nuts. But at MLS level he'd be very effective. I figured they'd want a ton for him but I don't know how the contract system works there, and whether he'll be out of contract at some point.

prizby
10-23-2014, 05:56 AM
His salary was 160k this year. We could move Morrow to CB who was excellent in Chicago (then again, they have no big no. 9). It could fix a number of issues we have though especially if he plays alongside Caldwell because he's good on the ball and sound defensively. I'm not a fan of him when he goes forward.

It must be an option for Vanney as he builds for next year.

morrow was awful at CB against DC United...he is a much, much better left back

flamehawk
10-23-2014, 06:25 AM
morrow was awful at CB against DC United...he is a much, much better left back

He is certainly better at LB and I wouldn't move him to CB permanently, but I thought he was amazing that game despite a 3 -0 loss. I actually think that was the game where I concluded Morrow was the best defender we have at the club.

Detroit_TFC
10-23-2014, 09:13 AM
I think you mean Harry Redknapp, but I understand and agree with your argument . Defoe was away when he should have been here. He was silent when he should have been vocal. Still I think too many factors keep him here for the seasons ahead. Even if he were so keen to go back that he was willing to take a pay cut, would his agent go along with such a deal?

yes, brain fart on Hodgson/Redknapp, my bad

portu
10-25-2014, 05:32 PM
I'd like to add Ricardo Goulart to that list of CAMS

also what about poaching Marcelo Sarvas from LA

Mark TFC
10-25-2014, 09:03 PM
I want three players gone: Defoe, Bekker, and Creavalle. I think we can build a solid team with most of our current players. End the locker room bullshit, find a competent replacement for Leiweke, and finally stick with a squad (and a coach) so we can build some chemistry.

notthesun
10-25-2014, 09:18 PM
I wonder if Seattle would be willing to part with Jalil Anibaba. Stuck behind Zach Scott and Chad Marshall at CB, and they have Djimi Traore as well.

portu
10-25-2014, 09:43 PM
I want three players gone: Defoe, Bekker, and Creavalle. I think we can build a solid team with most of our current players. End the locker room bullshit, find a competent replacement for Leiweke, and finally stick with a squad (and a coach) so we can build some chemistry.
Bekker gets waaaay too much shit on these forums he's a solid technical player imo

Yohan
10-25-2014, 09:48 PM
Bekker gets waaaay too much shit on these forums he's a solid technical player imo
Bekker is about useful as a third tit

portu
10-25-2014, 10:00 PM
Bekker is about useful as a third tit
Why? Because he doesn't have the work rate of a mule? Seriously we get too hung up over players that run around like headless chickens

Richard
10-25-2014, 10:07 PM
He isn't tough enough for this league and doesn't have the skills or IQ to make up for that, his presence on the pitch is minimal.

Yohan
10-25-2014, 10:08 PM
Why? Because he doesn't have the work rate of a mule? Seriously we get too hung up over players that run around like headless chickens
because he has no clue what to do when he has the ball and off the ball. he plays scared and lacks footy IQ. zero composure with the ball. anyone can make a pass if they have enough time

jloome
10-25-2014, 10:08 PM
Why? Because he doesn't have the work rate of a mule? Seriously we get too hung up over players that run around like headless chickens

Today they were playing a tilted 4-3-3 that required him to read where the space was between the NE midfield and defence, and move into it to allow Bradley an outlet under pressure. He consistently had NO IDEA where he was supposed to be on the pitch. His workrate was good, his technique is good, but he can't read the play. Not "he can't read it quickly enough", but "he can't read" anything but straight up and down. His support play is atrocious. He's such a great passer -- so why does he end out passing five yards backwards almost every time? Because he's never showing for the ball quickly enough to give himself time to turn and make a play.

I think he could come good eventually but he shouldn't be starting yet, not even a little.

Auzzy
10-25-2014, 10:08 PM
Why? Because he doesn't have the work rate of a mule? Seriously we get too hung up over players that run around like headless chickens

Bekker did run around alot today, so that obviously was not the problem today.

As said in the game thread, Bekker thinks way too slow, and rarely knows where his teammates are before he receives he ball. He screwed up numerous promising plays today as a result.

Many other games, he just does not seem to give a shit. Perhaps he thinks he's better than he really is -- and thinks he doesn't need to try hard as a result.

Ultra & Proud
10-25-2014, 10:17 PM
Bekker did run around alot today, so that obviously was not the problem today.

As said in the game thread, Bekker thinks way too slow, and rarely knows where his teammates are before he receives he ball. He screwed up numerous promising plays today as a result.

Many other games, he just does not seem to give a shit. Perhaps he thinks he's better than he really is -- and thinks he doesn't need to try hard as a result.
And since our manager for the future sees him as a starter and/or significant sub during our must win match segment, does that make our manager an idiot? Almost everyone on here knows Bekker is out of his depth but the guy who watches him hours and hours on the training pitch and on match video thinks he can help, so what does that say honestly?

It says next season ended already. So who do you all got for manager #10 come June?

notthesun
10-25-2014, 10:45 PM
Bekker should be with our USL team next year. Not hating on the guy, it seriously is where he should be. That's his level right now.

PopePouri
10-26-2014, 12:03 AM
And since our manager for the future sees him as a starter and/or significant sub during our must win match segment, does that make our manager an idiot? Almost everyone on here knows Bekker is out of his depth but the guy who watches him hours and hours on the training pitch and on match video thinks he can help, so what does that say honestly?

It says next season ended already. So who do you all got for manager #10 come June?

Any idiot would know then that we only have 2 "natural" no. 10s, Bekker and Osorio. Natural in quotations as they're supposed to be more creative midfielders.


Bekker should be with our USL team next year. Not hating on the guy, it seriously is where he should be. That's his level right now.

I thought he would excel in a 4-3-3 system playing his natural position but he just not good enough. I'd be surprised if he has a contract next year. I do hope Vanney continues the 4-3-3 route. Get some goal scoring wingers, get a proper attacking and defensive mid.

OgtheDim
10-26-2014, 07:47 AM
And since our manager for the future sees him as a starter and/or significant sub during our must win match segment, does that make our manager an idiot?....


I'm not sure Bekker is the preferred sub off the bench if Vanney gets what he wants from the off season. If we get an AM next season and Bekker still plays significant minutes as the added attacking strength, then I'll be yelling like you.

He's not good enough and plugs up the works.

ensco
10-26-2014, 07:53 AM
When Seattle was having a MF link up problem early on (similar to ours) they went out and signed Pineda for 80K and he was a major part of their success up front this year.

Not recognizing that we needed to do something like that, and instead sticking with Bekker, was a huge gaffe this year.

ag futbol
10-26-2014, 08:43 AM
I'm not a big effort guy, but Bekker leaves plenty to be desired.

Not sure if the football iq thing rings true. Looks more to me like not giving a shit / a lot of teammates who are really bad at moving off the ball, particularly the wide players. You see Osorio and Bradley waiving their hands at guys pretty consistently because they have no understanding of where to be. Those wide spots need upgrading, badly.

Ultra & Proud
10-26-2014, 08:49 AM
I'm not a big effort guy, but Bekker leaves plenty to be desired.

Not sure if the football iq thing rings true. Looks more to me like not giving a shit / a lot of teammates who are really bad at moving off the ball, particularly the wide players. You see Osorio and Bradley waiving their hands at guys pretty consistently because they have no understanding of where to be. Those wide spots need upgrading, badly.
Off the ball movement has been an issue and a reason for our futility for years and years now. Not been addressed by any of our recent managers including Vanney. I expect more static play next season until, but probably still after, manager #10 arrives.

notthesun
10-30-2014, 09:18 PM
Just a word for those who think we need an upgrade on Bendik... take a look at Kronberg's mistake which just eliminated SKC from the playoffs. That's what an actual 2nd tier keeper looks like.

Bendik is plenty good enough for us to be successful.

portu
10-30-2014, 11:31 PM
Just a word for those who think we need an upgrade on Bendik... take a look at Kronberg's mistake which just eliminated SKC from the playoffs. That's what an actual 2nd tier keeper looks like.

Bendik is plenty good enough for us to be successful.

true but Bendik is barely able to provide that for us... he's no where near the quality of a steady keeper like a robles or a ousted.

if we see an opportunity to improve upon him then y not i dont think anybody truly believes that he should go unprotected in expansion or that he should be on the trade block

notthesun
10-30-2014, 11:37 PM
I think he's easily as good as both those guys if not better.

Robles for instance does things like this every so often:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vYttYpZuhA

ManUtd4ever
10-31-2014, 09:36 AM
Bendik has had moments of brilliance this season, but he has also struggled with inconsistency. Given his young age, that is to be expected. I expect he will improve next season with another full season under his belt.

Derko
10-31-2014, 09:41 AM
Bendik has had moments of brilliance this season, but he has also struggled with inconsistency. Given his young age, that is to be expected. I expect he will improve next season with another full season under his belt.

I think Bendik is the least of our problems right now.

pdubs
10-31-2014, 10:08 AM
I think Bendik is the least of our problems right now.

I agree with this. Bendik is a serviceable MLS keeper.

We need to figure out our CB situations asap and add quality in the midfield (DM and CAM) to fit around Bradley.

OgtheDim
10-31-2014, 10:30 AM
Like any decent young keeper, Bendik is a five year project. He`s only done 2 years so far, neither of which saw him as the probable starter entering the season. Needs 2 more years as `the man`to make a call on how good he will get.

Ultra & Proud
10-31-2014, 11:29 AM
I think Bendik is the least of our problems right now.
Perhaps but if I was Bez I would take the highest ranked GK in the draft with one of my lower picks.

notthesun
10-31-2014, 12:04 PM
Chivas dispersal draft is December 1st.

notthesun
10-31-2014, 04:22 PM
CB watch: Montreal announced they will decline Matteo Ferrari and Futty Danso's contract options. Ferrari is an interesting case. Up there in age at 34 (same as Caldwell), but had a decently healthy season, playing 25 games and 2148 minutes (by comparison, Caldwell played 21 games and 1774 minutes). Led Montreal in interceptions and clearances per game, and was their 4th best player by WhoScored's ratings.

Issue with Ferrari is cap related, and that is the reason cited by Montreal for not re-signing him. He was on 355k according to the latest players' union numbers (Caldwell earned 364k). As a player over 23 years old with 3 years of MLS experience, Ferrari qualifies for the Re-Entry Draft and would be available at whatever his option salary is set at in his contract. Since Montreal did not pick it up we can assume it's probably hefty and likely around the 355k he earned last year.

Danso made 87k last year and also qualifies for the Re-Entry Draft. I wouldn't be interested in him though.

Detroit_TFC
10-31-2014, 08:48 PM
Nick Sabetti says that Ferrari has called his own press conference for Saturday 1 pm. Either he's going to retire or he's going to vent about IMFC.

khso11
11-01-2014, 03:40 AM
Nick Sabetti says that Ferrari has called his own press conference for Saturday 1 pm. Either he's going to retire or he's going to vent about IMFC.

Matteo Ferrari @Matteo27Ferrari · 5h 5 hours ago (https://twitter.com/Matteo27Ferrari/status/528385038275325952) Thank you all for your support. This is the nature of the sport. Tomorrow I will properly address the media regarding this situation..

Matteo Ferrari @Matteo27Ferrari · 5h 5 hours ago (https://twitter.com/Matteo27Ferrari/status/528385597719986176)

..because I believe this is the right way for it to be done.

ya, I think something is up.

ag futbol
11-01-2014, 02:30 PM
Bednik is a top keeper in terms of shot stopping, average at command of his box, dead-dead-dead last when it comes to distribution of the ball. That could be an issue under Vanney because he might want someone who can sweep the backline and provide a safe outlet (two things he's not great at). For a Nelsen type system he was fine, our backline played sooo deep there was no way the keeper would have been counted on to sweep up anything and playing out of the back was never a primary strategy.

Agreed, not the first area you change, but this new system will be asking a lot more out of Bednik than Nelsen's did. It's just like Adrian Cann from Preki one year to Winter the next. Everyone was raving about our defensive play but it was covering the fact we played with 9 men behind the ball most of the time. Style of play opens up, all of a sudden the defending goes from looking good to atrocious. So I'd tread with caution.

MightyDM
11-01-2014, 10:19 PM
Did anyone else notice in the year end interviews that Henry called the coaches "Ryan" and "Vanney" and DeRo did the exact opposite? Revealing about who was close to whom.

Oldtimer
11-01-2014, 10:55 PM
Montreal cuts Ferrari for next year because he doesn't want to play for a losing club. Well he sure isn't coming here, then.

Doucet3
11-09-2014, 12:09 PM
I agree with this. Bendik is a serviceable MLS keeper.

We need to figure out our CB situations asap and add quality in the midfield (DM and CAM) to fit around Bradley.
This right here, we need like 3 MLS vets that can be starters .. CB, Wide, CAM even to go as far as 2 CBs 2 Wide and a striker as well