Defoe and Gilberto.

[Narster]

I believe it is becoming pretty obvious that these two don't like each other. To me I think Leiweke is making Defoe play no matter what, he needs his "Bloody Big Deal" to be on nomater what, Defoe doesn't like Gilberto so Ol Gil doesnt play. Vanney and Bez can't say anything because they are scared, at the end the team suffers, this is what I think, any thoughts from you guys ?

[OgtheDim]

You uh, couldn't have waited until after the game to start spreading stuff about dissent etc. etc. could ya?

[Richard]

Yeah lets revisit this thread in a few hours.

[Narster]

I could have waited that is true.... But it is 3-0 at half, bless the souls of us TFC fans.

[jazzy]

my response..fook Defoe before during and of COURSE after this atrocious piece of shite ......don't think anyone can play with Defoe.....and his crown

[JuliquE]

my response..fook Defoe before during and of COURSE after this atrocious piece of shite ......don't think anyone can play with Defoe.....and his crown
This post has me thinking: I wonder if Leiweke can be accused of OVER-selling Toronto, with that contributing to Defoe's not being satisfied.

I think that we maybe have built him up to be the second coming, and wooed him over, accordingly.. but, it was always going to be an uphill battle to keep him happy and maintain that standard.

I'd say, next time around, make any DP feel like it's going to be an absolute SLOG of a season; make them really understand what the shit they're getting into, so that any positives (of which there are MANY about Toronto) will be the icing on the cake for whoever we bring in.

Not to condone Defoe's behaviour, mind.

[boysblue]

The match just concluded, and one thing is certain.....Defoe is clearly no longer interested.

[Fushida]

The match just concluded, and one thing is certain.....Defoe is clearly no longer interested.

C'mon now, he's bulking up his arms and shoulders these days. Can't only have leg days amirite?

[TFC07]

This post has me thinking: I wonder if Leiweke can be accused of OVER-selling Toronto, with that contributing to Defoe's not being satisfied.

I think that we maybe have built him up to be the second coming, and wooed him over, accordingly.. but, it was always going to be an uphill battle to keep him happy and maintain that standard.

I'd say, next time around, make any DP feel like it's going to be an absolute SLOG of a season; make them really understand what the shit they're getting into, so that any positives (of which there are MANY about Toronto) will be the icing on the cake for whoever we bring in.

Not to condone Defoe's behaviour, mind.

I don't think it was city that was issue, it was more about the league in general. MLS isn't high profile league that attracts a lot of media attention while quality (especially coaches and refs) isn't that great. I assume Defoe thought he will get "rock star" treatment (like David Beckham), but found out, that wasn't case.

[MKR]

I think most people would favor Gilberto over Defoe if they had to choose one at present..

And i would bet the farm that Defoe will be on another team next season anyways. case closed?

[Red4ever]

Man, people love to speculate don't they? If Defoe were on the squad that kicked our ass tonight, he would be happy.

Our team is shit, he was sold a lie and didn't handle it well at all. Between him, Gilberto and the team in general, they were the very definition of inconsistency.

But you know who would be great... Laba.

[OgtheDim]

Defoe needs to be in a 2 striker system to succeed.

That was MLS when Nelsen was here.

It's changed. The successful teams are playing 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with a spearhead top striker.

There is no reason to believe Defoe would adapt.

Gilberto in a 4-2-3-1 or at the top of a 4-3-3 would be a better choice.

[JuliquE]

I don't think it was city that was issue, it was more about the league in general. MLS isn't high profile league that attracts a lot of media attention while quality (especially coaches and refs) isn't that great. I assume Defoe thought he will get "rock star" treatment (like David Beckham), but found out, that wasn't case.
Apologies; I DID make it seem like the problem was Toronto.. and, whilst I DO feel like that might play a role, at times, I don't come close to thinking that it's a major part of it.

I agree with you, and, actually, that's more what I meant; the league and all the BS -- just give them the real, up front. Anyone who agrees, after you've levelled with them about the potential experience, will be a TOP competitor, and will likely find that it isn't QUITE as doom and gloom as they were prepared for.

[LFC8]

Defoe's too good for this team. Plain and simple.

[Gringo Starr]

Henry was too good for the league when he got here but he found a way to make those around him better without coming across as a prick

[Narster]

It gets me thinking how desperate MLSE was to change TFC that they would do anything to make it work. Defoe obviously has talent and TFC did overpay a bit but would you not look into character of a player before signing him for 4 years. This is absurd, Defoe sold half the seats if not more in Toronto this year, and now he is pretty much gone and they need to fill 30000 seats, at this rate most fans including myself will probably not renew seats. I hope Gilberto won't ask to leave after all of this drama.

[habstfc]

I don't think Defoe is going anywhere. He's making 6 million US$ a year. If he goes back to UK he'd make 3.5 million a year max. He'd be walking away from about 8 million bucks in guaranteed money.

[cdnorman]

Henry was too good for the league when he got here but he found a way to make those around him better without coming across as a prick

Exactly. The status of MLS is what people make of it. Some of the successful soccer environments in MLS are as compelling to play in as anything overseas. Yes, there are few of them and the league as a whole isn't what we see in places like England, but MLS is getting better. Regardless, players are given money, benefits and a contract and if they don't like it, they can go. Henry came here and has done well while shifting his role to being one of catalyst rather than the playmaker. I actually this is where the comparison between him and Defoe stops, because Defoe seems to lack that other aspect of the game that Henry has.

[Pookie]

Well... here are some interesting numbers for those that consider this Defoe-Gilberto relationship a source of dysfunction on this team.

After the "fight" over the free kick, the team record is 5-10-5.

[OgtheDim]

Defoe is not a player you can build a team around. Bradley is.

Maybe Defoe can adjust to a 4-3-3 or a 4-1-3-1-1. But, if he doesn't, he's a boat anchor on this team's ambitions. Cause the best set up for Bradley is a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-1-3-1-1.

4-4-2 diamond or whatever doesn't give us enough cover.

[Pookie]

^ his contract is another boat anchor. He simply cannot come back next year.

[69Chevy396]

Defoe's too good for this team. Plain and simple.
Really? Henry is too good for this league, but he is a tireless leader and class act, while Defoe is a worthless schmuck of a man

[mook-life]

Really? Henry is too good for this league, but he is a tireless leader and class act, while Defoe is a worthless schmuck of a man

Was too good, not is

[PAOK17]

So a quick comparison between Defoe and Gilberto's stats show that Defoe has played 1529 mins over 19 games in MLS which corresponds to 80.5 mins of playing time per game he has been selected to play in. Meanwhile, Gilberto has logged 1779 mins in 26 games played or 68 mins per game. So Gilberto gets slightly less playing time.

A closer look shows that Defoe has come off the bench only twice in those 19 games, whereas Gilberto has come off 7 times.

The interesting stat is goals scored. Yes, Defoe has 11 versus Gilberto's 7. However, Defoe is 3/4 on penalties whereas Gilberto has never attempted one. Including all goals, Defoe gets a goal every 139 minutes played which corresponds to 0.65 goals per 90 minutes. Meanwhile, Gilberto is much less efficient in that he gets 1 goal for ever 254 minutes played or 0.35 goals per 90 minutes.

However, if we remove Defoe's penalties, and use 8 goals instead of 11 for the calculation, he actually scores once every 191 minutes or 0.47 goals per 90 minutes. So this shows that yes, Defoe has better statistics than Gilberto but I wouldn't rush to think from a goalscoring perspective it's that lopsided.

I should also mention that Defoe only has 2 assists versus Gilberto's 5 - which makes sense considering how we've all noted Gilberto's playmaking abilities whereas Defoe isn't really that type of player.

The thing is, Gilberto's numbers were improving as Defoe's were declining. Throw in that a player like Gilberto has more upside than Defoe due to age and injury history and that the two have played only 530 minutes together all season (!) from an on-field perspective, it wouldn't be seen as a huge risk to go with Gilberto or Defoe in the future.

Just my opinion based some quick number calculations (there are many more that can be done- so even from a stats perspective it's an incomplete story) other factors that we don't know about such as locker room character can't be captured here.

As a side note, I don't like the per 90 minute stat as a complete indicator since it's just an average that doesn't take into account how many minutes players play per game.

P.S. Sorry for the boring talk.

[Richard]

I think its pretty clear what should happen next year and that's selling Defoe, then finding a South American AM DP similar to Gilberto in price.

I don't think another big name DP could save season ticket sales, MLSE just needs to accept we are well past that point.

[Red4ever]

Laba was the lynchpin. We should be looking for strong DM DP to compliment Bradley. It's not a sexy answer that's fun to debate but it's why our D was stretched. I think Defoe and Gilberto will both be gone.

[Hamilton_Red]

Defoe's too good for this team. Plain and simple.

That's rubbish. Defoe has always played for shit teams - he has at no point shown interest in winning anything. He is content with being the big ego in a small room. He won nothing in his professional career. TFC was an obvious choice for him - didn't even have the chance of relegation...he couldn't lose. A big pay-check and rock star status - that's about it. The failure of TFC this season is his failure - its the characters on the team that drive you victory & he didn't do it.

[Richard]

Laba was the lynchpin. We should be looking for strong DM DP to compliment Bradley. It's not a sexy answer that's fun to debate but it's why our D was stretched. I think Defoe and Gilberto will both be gone.


I agree that finding a partner for Bradley is also important. I'm just not sure if a DP slot should be used for a DM, our poor attacking puts extra pressure on our defensive players, though I would take Laba back in a heartbeat.

[ag futbol]

I agree that finding a partner for Bradley is also important. I'm just not sure if a DP slot should be used for a DM, our poor attacking puts extra pressure on our defensive players, though I would take Laba back in a heartbeat.
I think with proper scouting we should be able to find someone to play that role on non-DP money. That being said, if they really found someone of the quality of Laba (groan) I wouldn't argue with using it. A few teams are using spots on DMs. They really are a linchpin of a good MLS team and make everyone else look so much better.

Still think that DP spot primarily needs to be used on a player that can provide service to the strikers. Whether that's a wide player or an AM, I don't think it particularly matters.

[azorean]

I think its pretty clear what should happen next year and that's selling Defoe, then finding a South American AM DP similar to Gilberto in price.

I don't think another big name DP could save season ticket sales, MLSE just needs to accept we are well past that point.


I agree, look at Vancouver and how they have done it. They have scouted well. Morales is great, the 2 Uruguayans(especially Fernandez) are useful, laba is solid, and they sign a beast of a cb in Waston at the roster cutoff date who was the man of the match in the most important game of the season for them on Friday. It would be interesting to see how much these players cost and compare that to what tfc pays out for the same positions/category of player. Must be a huge disparity in terms of ROI. I am not even talking in terms of this season either, more about potential. That Vancouver group stays intact and they add a seasoned striker,lookout. What makes me most frustrated is why can't tfc do this?

Caldwell cares and offers some leadership but look at his salary! I would gladly take guys like waston, or bernadez over him at half the cost or two thirds of the cost. Even Goncalves for NE, he gets paid a third more but look what he brings and does for his team in comparison.

[jabbronies]

I don't think Defoe is going anywhere. He's making 6 million US$ a year. If he goes back to UK he'd make 3.5 million a year max. He'd be walking away from about 8 million bucks in guaranteed money.

He came here because of the money. He's leaving because of the Football.

We need someone who'll do the opposite. LOL I know, I'm a dreamer.

[aajking]

A bit beside the point but when we signed Defoe, all I could think was why not Drogba? Sure, he's older but he's still potent and has the character needed to play in a league like the MLS. Short term obviously but I doubt any of us believed Defoe would stay for the full 4 years anyways. Sign a player like that to help the team with experience, not to be our point man.

Unless we're signing a Luke Shaw or Emre Can, what's the point in chasing European players? We need catalysts not closers right now.

[JuliquE]

He came here because of the money. He's leaving because of the Football.

We need someone who'll do the opposite. LOL I know, I'm a dreamer.
Soo.. we want someone to come for the football, and then leave for the money?

[Yohan]

A bit beside the point but when we signed Defoe, all I could think was why not Drogba? Sure, he's older but he's still potent and has the character needed to play in a league like the MLS. Short term obviously but I doubt any of us believed Defoe would stay for the full 4 years anyways. Sign a player like that to help the team with experience, not to be our point man.

Unless we're signing a Luke Shaw or Emre Can, what's the point in chasing European players? We need catalysts not closers right now.
you can find Euro guys who will take pride in playing in MLS. you find a guy like Thierry Henry, Robbie Keane or di Vaio who not only produce on the pitch, but rep MLS whenever they can. They don't think MLS is beneath them. hell, even Beckham once he realized MLS is serious business gave his all.

Defoe? on hindsight, the way he needed to be pampered just to sign with TFC was like, he felt like he was more special than everyone else. he is, but that's not the attitude that'll endear you to your teammates or the league

[jazzy]

you can find Euro guys who will take pride in playing in MLS. you find a guy like Thierry Henry, Robbie Keane or di Vaio who not only produce on the pitch, but rep MLS whenever they can. They don't think MLS is beneath them. hell, even Beckham once he realized MLS is serious business gave his all.

Defoe? on hindsight, the way he needed to be pampered just to sign with TFC was like, he felt like he was more special than everyone else. he is, but that's not the attitude that'll endear you to your teammates or the league

I think if the correct background queries were done , instead of fandom hoopla we would of known he wasn`t the character we needed . They were simply looking a `name` to get `fans`into the stadium , and damn the consequences. All would be good after making the play-offs . We tries to jump too many hurdles , instead of simply climbing a ladder 1 link at a time. 2nd mistake , letting him ever play another game for us after realizing his bullshit ! It killed a team spirit we were building .

[JuliquE]

I think if the correct background queries were done , instead of fandom hoopla we would of known he wasn`t the character we needed . They were simply looking a `name` to get `fans`into the stadium , and damn the consequences. All would be good after making the play-offs . We tries to jump too many hurdles , instead of simply climbing a ladder 1 link at a time. 2nd mistake , letting him ever play another game for us after realizing his bullshit ! It killed a team spirit we were building .
That last point has been mentioned a time or two, in different ways, by myself and others.. but, I still think it's being underestimated.

Chemistry is SO huge; great that you're skilled -- best in the league -- whatever.. but, if you can't rally your mates, it's lost in a team sport.

Players of lesser ability, but with chemistry and familiarity with one another, can raise their game; guys like Oduro, maddening as he can be, at times, if in a settled side, where he feels comfortable, will have a better relationship with his team-mates, on the pitch, with them finding each other more, and thus helping our cause.

It's no coincidence that we get blanked, as soon as Gilberto's dropped from the squad. Came on in the last game, and, despite perhaps not being at his sharpest, given his time off, our play immediately improved.

[jazzy]

That last point has been mentioned a time or two, in different ways, by myself and others.. but, I still think it's being underestimated.

Chemistry is SO huge; great that you're skilled -- best in the league -- whatever.. but, if you can't rally your mates, it's lost in a team sport.

Players of lesser ability, but with chemistry and familiarity with one another, can raise their game; guys like Oduro, maddening as he can be, at times, if in a settled side, where he feels comfortable, will have a better relationship with his team-mates, on the pitch, with them finding each other more, and thus helping our cause.

It's no coincidence that we get blanked, as soon as Gilberto's dropped from the squad. Came on in the last game, and, despite perhaps not being at his sharpest, given his time off, our play immediately improved.

I am literally frightened of Gilberto`s desire to stay....now of course , and there will be some interseting junk coming out of the locker room now I think , he`s either been scolded or his desire has been squelched . I can`t believe that the front office would do the same thing all over again, but have they butted in AGAIN to pick who plays and who doesn`t ? AND split up the team ? Many on here don't like Dero but I'd love to hear his version of all this . (Again this year we screwed him)....He could have contributed immensely this year in every game at least in the second halfs . The fans can sense sincerity and it seems to get lost always within this organization .

[Ajax TFC]

I honestly don't believe that Vanney would willingly prioritize the marketing of Defoe above the good of the team. This all stinks of micromanaging from the owners. If Defoe was being disruptive and wanted out, why didn't they sell him? Lieweke himself said to get the hell out if you don't want to be here. And at that point when a player doesn't want to play there, it's pretty obvious that holding onto him doesn't increase your chances of getting to the playoffs. So then why not sell him? Because the owners invested a lot of money to bring him here and built their marketing campaign around him. I think that because of that investment, the owners might be getting more involved in the team than they should. Why would Vanney play an out of form, just back from injury, egotistical player like Defoe over an inform, hard working and more team oriented player like Gilberto? Because the owners want him to play. Besides the fact that he's their investment, his also their strategy to put faces back infront of the TV. The owners are the ones who broadcast the games, so they directly benefit from more viewers. Lieweke probably convinced them fork out money for Defoe based on the fact that he's a big name that will get people watching TFC again, so now they want to make sure he's playing.

TBH I hope I'm wrong, because this would mean that things are at a whole new level of fucked up if the owners are in fact dictating things. It's just a theory that makes more sense than that Vanney is a complete dumbass who doesn't understand things like team chemistry. It would also explain Leiweke's comments about Defoe a little while ago.

[OgtheDim]

IIRC, Defoe was Nelsen's #1 target for a striker. Fits his system and he knows him.

Of course this all got blown up when we landed Bradley, which is probably the best move TL made in his tenure here.

[jabbronies]

Soo.. we want someone to come for the football, and then leave for the money?

I just meant the first part...

[JuliquE]

I just meant the first part...
heh Just having a.. jab.. at you (see what I did, there?).

[Jack]

Henry was too good for the league when he got here but he found a way to make those around him better without coming across as a prick


Exactly. The status of MLS is what people make of it. Some of the successful soccer environments in MLS are as compelling to play in as anything overseas. Yes, there are few of them and the league as a whole isn't what we see in places like England, but MLS is getting better. Regardless, players are given money, benefits and a contract and if they don't like it, they can go. Henry came here and has done well while shifting his role to being one of catalyst rather than the playmaker. I actually this is where the comparison between him and Defoe stops, because Defoe seems to lack that other aspect of the game that Henry has.


Really? Henry is too good for this league, but he is a tireless leader and class act, while Defoe is a worthless schmuck of a man

NYRB got themselves a real winner for their DP. A man who has won everywhere he's played and been captain of very good teams. A man who will be remembered as one of the all-time legends of the game. Defoe...scored a lot of goals for mid-table teams (albeit Spurs did improve later on during his tenure). There is no doubting Defoe's scoring talent, but he can't be compared to Henry.

[OgtheDim]

Armen Bedakian ‏@ArmenBedakian (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian) 21m21 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian/status/522454036126380032) Spoke with Gilberto today about his season and Montreal. But, he wished not to comment on my q. about chemistry built with Defoe. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)

Armen Bedakian ‏@ArmenBedakian (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian) 19m19 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian/status/522454784692191232)
Gilberto made it clear though that he not only likes life in Toronto FC, but he's also having a lot of fun here, too. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash) #MLS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLS?src=hash)

[anto7]

Armen Bedakian ‏@ArmenBedakian (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian) 21m21 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian/status/522454036126380032) Spoke with Gilberto today about his season and Montreal. But, he wished not to comment on my q. about chemistry built with Defoe. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)

Armen Bedakian ‏@ArmenBedakian (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian) 19m19 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ArmenBedakian/status/522454784692191232)
Gilberto made it clear though that he not only likes life in Toronto FC, but he's also having a lot of fun here, too. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash) #MLS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLS?src=hash)

You got to think that anyone who says no comment in answer to a question has a story that cannot be told right now.

[Derko]

You got to think that anyone who says no comment in answer to a question has a story that cannot be told right now.

Agreed and hopefully Gilberto will stay on at TFC for a few more years. I think he is committed to TFC, the Badge and the Supporters. Maybe a story will come out, but I would rather it not. Hoping both Gilberto and Defoe bag a few against L'impact, and give us a game to cheer about.

[burlington Red]

thing about Keane and Henry is they had both been captains before they came here. Both had leadership qualities as well as ability. Neither Gilberto or Defoe have that leadership aspect to their game. Defoe is moody as we know. Compare Gilberto's movement to either Henry or Keane, there is an ecomony to their movement, in that they don't gallop all over the pitch as Gilberto does, but when they make a run, it is significant, impactful. Not saying Gilberto doesn't make good runs at times, but there is a headless chicken aspect at times to his game. It might seem cruel to compare him with Keane and Henry, but he's a DP, he's in with the big boys now. Some might say Henry doesn't move as much now due to age, and there is probably an element to that, but he was never as rampant with his runs as Gilberto. Keane has never been a big runner even when younger. I appreciate Gilberto is a big fav on here with the majority, and I do like him, I just don't think we've got enough out of him for the outlay and I think some of the praise he gets is way OTT. Service has been poor to him in fairness and it's his first season in a new league also. Next season he may well excel and at that time he'll get my praise wholeheartedly, but for this season, he's done okay.

[ag futbol]

IIRC, Defoe was Nelsen's #1 target for a striker. Fits his system and he knows him.

I'm still trying to figure out how on earth he was supposed to get service in that previous system.

As soon as teams took away the obvious options we were out of ideas.

[OgtheDim]

I'm still trying to figure out how on earth he was supposed to get service in that previous system.

As soon as teams took away the obvious options we were out of ideas.

Henry long balls?

[MightyDM]

I'm still trying to figure out how on earth he was supposed to get service in that previous system.

As soon as teams took away the obvious options we were out of ideas.

We were also in third place.

[molenshtain]

We were also in third place.

Before NYRB, Columbus and NE had their late season surges. There's no need to go over it again. It's been leaked and leaked that the players were unhappy with Nelsen. They gave up on him after Ernie's goal.

[Narster]

It really makes me wonder how much thought they put into signing Defoe, management knows that TFC has a culture of loosing and that things have gotten out of control many times, so why bring in a player with a high temper and fuse. I know Defoe was supposed to change that but you are making a huge descions here, why not research a bit more. This may sound radical but sometimes I wish we were a bit cash strapped so it forces us to look into our descions more..... Tossing money at a problem helps, but don't do it blindly...

[Detroit_TFC]

^ Many good points. The risk of signing a marquee player is that they require management. The particular risks of signing JD had to be apparent (hindsight is 20/20, I know). I'm sure TL's mindset at the time was, if JD doesn't work out, we'll get some other big name player. Well, that backup plan isn't going to work for us now. Can we get back on the Kevin Payne plan (without the hassle of it being attached to Kevin Payne) - get down to Brazil and Argentina and find some decent players who want to come to North America.

[OfficeGuy]

just posted on FB by Toronto FC - -
Jermain Defoe will not play vs. Montreal after aggravating his groin injury.

https://www.facebook.com/torontofc

[FRANKIE65]

Go Gilberto!!!!!! It's his to run with now:drum:

[Oldtimer]

Duane tweeting (maybe correctly) that Gilberto is out.

[FRANKIE65]

Duane tweeting (maybe correctly) that Gilberto is out.

Oh, man. Does anyone want to play for us anymore??!??!!??!??

[OgtheDim]

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 32s33 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/523146023821385728) Defoe is here at training. Not practising with team. We're told he won't talk to reporters today. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)

[Detroit_TFC]

Trying not to freak out about Gil rumors. So far, mostly unsuccessful on that effort.

[hulkrogan]

So Bradley, our surprise last minute DP that fell into our lap, may be the only one left after this season.

:puke::sheep::picard:

[jloome]

thing about Keane and Henry is they had both been captains before they came here. Both had leadership qualities as well as ability. Neither Gilberto or Defoe have that leadership aspect to their game. Defoe is moody as we know. Compare Gilberto's movement to either Henry or Keane, there is an ecomony to their movement, in that they don't gallop all over the pitch as Gilberto does, but when they make a run, it is significant, impactful. Not saying Gilberto doesn't make good runs at times, but there is a headless chicken aspect at times to his game. It might seem cruel to compare him with Keane and Henry, but he's a DP, he's in with the big boys now. Some might say Henry doesn't move as much now due to age, and there is probably an element to that, but he was never as rampant with his runs as Gilberto. Keane has never been a big runner even when younger. I appreciate Gilberto is a big fav on here with the majority, and I do like him, I just don't think we've got enough out of him for the outlay and I think some of the praise he gets is way OTT. Service has been poor to him in fairness and it's his first season in a new league also. Next season he may well excel and at that time he'll get my praise wholeheartedly, but for this season, he's done okay.

Dead on.
I suspect many of this year's problems emanated from having three primadonnas in the room in Nelsen, Defoe and Gilberto, three guys who expected to be the shit because of their previous success at the top level.

[mcolvy]

I hope it was Gilberto that busted up Defoe. Defoe now injured and can't play. Gilberto gets the boot for doing something so terrible. #tfc!

[Pookie]

I hope it was Gilberto that busted up Defoe. Defoe "now injured" and "can't play." Gilberto gets the boot for doing something so terrible. #tfc!

Defoe "now injured" and "can't play."

Fixed it.

[Joe Kool]

Defoe "now injured" and "can't play."

Fixed it.

What I was thinking...haha. How many times have we seen that in the sports world....

[FRANKIE65]

Crap, just came to me who Defoe has reminded me of all season. Anyone remember Morris Day and the Time doing the bird dance????



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADS7TONlr8U&feature=player_detailpage

:smilewinkgrin:

[Pookie]

What I was thinking...haha. How many times have we seen that in the sports world....

He might be really injured. Just seems pretty convenient in terms of protecting him against an injury with essentially nothing to play for as the sale goes through.

[hulkrogan]

Rewatch this video. That wasn't a soccer ball they were ripping back and forth.

That was our hearts.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9K6Q2_aIT4

[ukpubboy]

thing about Keane and Henry is they had both been captains before they came here. Both had leadership qualities as well as ability. Neither Gilberto or Defoe have that leadership aspect to their game. Defoe is moody as we know. Compare Gilberto's movement to either Henry or Keane, there is an ecomony to their movement, in that they don't gallop all over the pitch as Gilberto does, but when they make a run, it is significant, impactful. Not saying Gilberto doesn't make good runs at times, but there is a headless chicken aspect at times to his game. It might seem cruel to compare him with Keane and Henry, but he's a DP, he's in with the big boys now. Some might say Henry doesn't move as much now due to age, and there is probably an element to that, but he was never as rampant with his runs as Gilberto. Keane has never been a big runner even when younger. I appreciate Gilberto is a big fav on here with the majority, and I do like him, I just don't think we've got enough out of him for the outlay and I think some of the praise he gets is way OTT. Service has been poor to him in fairness and it's his first season in a new league also. Next season he may well excel and at that time he'll get my praise wholeheartedly, but for this season, he's done okay.

You're kidding right? I had season tickets to Coventry when Keane was there, and he was all over the park, and not chicken with his head cut off. Was pure class and one of the best players I have ever watched.

[burlington Red]

You're kidding right? I had season tickets to Coventry when Keane was there, and he was all over the park, and not chicken with his head cut off. Was pure class and one of the best players I have ever watched.

Didn't say he was a chicken with his head cut off- read the post.
I'm Irish and I have been following Keane since he played in Irish schoolboy teamss, he had 1 season at Coventry if I recall correctly. Of course he is class, he's my countries record goal scorer, that was the gist of my post. He hasn't though been a big runner, I wasn't criticising him for that, I was actually praising him in how his runs are effective, in comparison with a lot of, not all Gilberto's running.

[Initial B]

An interesting comment on Doug Smith's sports blog at the Star. He's saying that Defoe is probably one of the biggest busts in Toronto sports history, just behind Hakeem Olajuwon of the Raptors. Can't say I fault his logic. Here's the link:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_smiths_sports_blog/2014/10/a_dubious_list_of_local_busts__who_d_be_your_no__1 _.html

[MKR]

the thing that makes him the biggest bust is the feeling of disappointment that he gave up on the team and wants/wanted to leave. It's not based on his play or fitness. Injuries happen, and he played well for the most part. He comes across like a bit of a prostitute.

[Oblio2]

Thats unfair.
Biggest bust still top scorer.....
Who said he wants to leave?
Did Defoe say he wants out?
This bullshit ripping on Defoe is a joke and probably something that will drive him away....

[ryan]

the thing that makes him the biggest bust is the feeling of disappointment that he gave up on the team and wants/wanted to leave. It's not based on his play or fitness. Injuries happen, and he played well for the most part. He comes across like a bit of a prostitute.

Jermain DeHoe

[Carts]

Thats unfair.
Biggest bust still top scorer.....
Who said he wants to leave?
Did Defoe say he wants out?
This bullshit ripping on Defoe is a joke and probably something that will drive him away....

I have to agree... Jermain Defoe, as is, the player, & his production personally, is NOT the biggest bust, or even one of, the biggest busts in Toronto sports history...

Now, the entire 'BLOODY BIG DEAL' being Defoe, Bradley, 3rd DP Gilberto, Dero returns, promise of playoffs, $100 million, why can't we be great proclamation = that entire product together definitely IS the biggest bust in Toronto sports history...

Carts...

[Richard]

Well he did sign a 5 year contract right? Not even completing one full year on the term and missing more than 50% of games makes him sort of a bust hype wise.

[MKR]

Thats unfair.
Biggest bust still top scorer.....
Who said he wants to leave?
Did Defoe say he wants out?
This bullshit ripping on Defoe is a joke and probably something that will drive him away....

sorry was it not almost common knowledge that he would have preferred to go back to England? It was also reported that QPR had agreed to terms with Defoe only to have TFC (or MLS who really knows) not to let the transfer go through.

Also what the hell was the whole 'rehabbing in England" bullshit? Don't tell me he couldn't have rehabbed his injury properly here in toronto. Besides it was such a crucial part of the season for the team that just having him with the rest of the team for moral support would have probably made a huge difference.

Did defoe say he wants out? Lol. Did he say he doesn't? Rumours were abound and rampant and he didn't say one reassuring thing about his future here. I think it's pretty obvious he's driving himself away.

[MKR]

Now, the entire 'BLOODY BIG DEAL' being Defoe, Bradley, 3rd DP Gilberto, Dero returns, promise of playoffs, $100 million, why can't we be great proclamation = that entire product together definitely IS the biggest bust in Toronto sports history...

Carts...

no last years Blue jays were the biggest bust by that criteria.

[hulkrogan]

Can't link it because it's blocked at work, but there is a Gilberto video up with a pretty decent denial he's looking to leave. His first answer in the video about looking to build for the future and not looking at just this year was fairly unprompted. Who's the douche who asks questions to the translator instead of talking to Gilberto, and is always trying to dig up controversy? That guy is annoying.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/mls-major-league-soccer-jermain-defoe-tfc-toronto-fc/

He doesnt seem to be too committal in this interview by John Molinaro

[hulkrogan]

^That's from the same interview. Watch the video and it comes across in a totally different context (paraphrasing):

Reporter 1: Was this a disappointing season, both personally because of injuries, and because TFC not making the playoffs?

Gilberto: It was only one year, we just put this group together, and there are lots of positives to take into next season. I like it here and hope we do better next year.

John Molinaro: There are reports he wants out? Does he want out?

Gilberto: No. Happy here.

John Molinaro: But I heard he wants out. Does he?

Gilberto: The season isn't even over. Screw off.... err, I mean it's not up to me if I stay, (I already told you I like it here) if the management wants me out, I don't get a choice.

[OgtheDim]

A question worth asking; but not a second time.

[GBV]

Thats unfair.
Biggest bust still top scorer.....
Who said he wants to leave?
Did Defoe say he wants out?
This bullshit ripping on Defoe is a joke and probably something that will drive him away....

From today's Star:
>Defoe, whose future with the club has been up in the air since Toronto turned down a club-record transfer bid for him at the end of the last transfer window, declined to speak to reporters Tuesday.

If he wanted to stay, I struggle to believe he wouldn't happily talk to reporters .... and share this with them.

[zeelaw]

Thats unfair.
Biggest bust still top scorer.....
Who said he wants to leave?
Did Defoe say he wants out?
This bullshit ripping on Defoe is a joke and probably something that will drive him away....

Dude, he wants out. He signed personal terms with QPR.

[Carts]

no last years Blue jays were the biggest bust by that criteria.

Good call... Forgot about all that hype, the Vegas odds, SI pumping their tires etc...

[Oblio2]

Dude, he wants out. He signed personal terms with QPR.

he cant sign anything as hes under contract.

[Oblio2]

and my point is, hes not a bust. How can he be?
Hes the top scorer on this team...he scored goals.
he may be unhappy, he is probably homesick....you may be angry at that, but a bust?
Come on.....

[Ultra & Proud]

and my point is, hes not a bust. How can he be?
Hes the top scorer on this team...he scored goals.
he may be unhappy, he is probably homesick....you may be angry at that, but a bust?
Come on.....
Not a 100% Mista level bust but I would expect more than 11 goals for $6M. Add in the unrest, pouting, transfer crap, and now him likely leaving after just 19 matches played and yeah, I say bust too.

[MKR]

and my point is, hes not a bust. How can he be?
Hes the top scorer on this team...he scored goals.
he may be unhappy, he is probably homesick....you may be angry at that, but a bust?
Come on.....

bust is not the right word.

But he has been a clear disappointment if for no other reason than his poor character.
His play has been fine, but when it's pretty clear he doesn't want to be here, then signing him has been a failure and that's his own doing.

[jloome]

His behavior disrupted the entire team and probably led to both Tim L and Nelsen being canned. Yes, he's a bust. Enormous. You can score eleven goals and be a bust if you do more harm than good. Even fans of other teams are telling him to Fuck off online.

[shwade]

His behavior disrupted the entire team and probably led to both Tim L and Nelsen being canned. Yes, he's a bust. Enormous. You can score eleven goals and be a bust if you do more harm than good. Even fans of other teams are telling him to Fuck off online.

Lolz. Funny that you (not only you) recognize his disruptive behaviour now but God forbid i make a thread on it during the actual disruption.

Anyway, bust in terms of goals/game maybe not even tho his last 2 games he didn't give a shit but probably the biggest major DP bust in MLS. He's here for half a season and wants out - bloody big bust..gtfo.

[jvanpeebles]

The bust was the entire season and promises that came with all the season tickets purchased. Lets see how may people buy again. Personally I had great hope early on as did most others but was concerned about depth. I hope he stays and we get some workable parts including a reliable CB

[zeelaw]

he cant sign anything as hes under contract.
Figo signed with Madrid expecting never to go there.

[GBV]

and my point is, hes not a bust. How can he be?
Hes the top scorer on this team...he scored goals.
he may be unhappy, he is probably homesick....you may be angry at that, but a bust?
Come on.....

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

[ryan]

Not sure why y'all spending so much time for a player who quit on us midseason and will never wear a TFC shirt again.

Move on, he has, you should too.

[GBV]

Not overly convincing, as expected:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/mls-michael-bradley-toronto-fc-tfc-major-league-soccer/

[ryan]

I'm sorry but you can't go on a fucking tirade of "woe is me" and "y'all being mean suggesting I'm not committed"........followed by a question asking if he's committed to next year, aka his god damn contract, and the answer is "well, I dunno about next year"

Fuck off.

If you're committed, then say so. Stop this saving face act. Anyone who follows pro sports has seen this song and dance a billion times over. If you can't simply verbally agree to the contract you signed, then why the fuck should we believe you?

Any player who wants to play for a team, will flat out say "I'd love to be back next year." It's that fuckin simple mate, just say it.

[Red4ever]

They'll both be gone. We'll be better for it.

Prima Donnas don't fit here in Toronto.

[shwade]

I'm sorry but you can't go on a fucking tirade of "woe is me" and "y'all being mean suggesting I'm not committed"........followed by a question asking if he's committed to next year, aka his god damn contract, and the answer is "well, I dunno about next year"

Fuck off.

If you're committed, then say so. Stop this saving face act. Anyone who follows pro sports has seen this song and dance a billion times over. If you can't simply verbally agree to the contract you signed, then why the fuck should we believe you?

Any player who wants to play for a team, will flat out say "I'd love to be back next year." It's that fuckin simple mate, just say it.

Just the fact that he keeps saying he never PUBLICLY asked for a transfer. He's specified 'publicly' a few times.

[OgtheDim]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/23/mother-at-the-centre-of-jermain-defoe-drama-sources

:facepalm:

[Lumpy]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/23/mother-at-the-centre-of-jermain-defoe-drama-sources

:facepalm:

Posted earlier on different thread

Just spit my coffee out upon reading this one http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/23...-drama-sources (http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/23/mother-at-the-centre-of-jermain-defoe-drama-sources) . Funny how all this stuff is leaking out now after failing to make the playoffs and the final game is approaching. This seems to be a classic blame shifting exercise by management by making Defoe and his mother the story instead of the real story which is management screwed up this season. The info in this story seems to have been spoon-fed from management. Unbelievable that they can't even use propaganda properly by trying to make Defoe the scapegoat instead of themselves with such a clumsy attempt. Sadly this kind of crap will be gobbled down by some. Management screwed up this season and no one else.

[burlington Red]

"The reds believe they can get more out of Gilberto with the addition of a prominent attacking midfielder"- no shit sherlock, if we had one this season, we'd got a lot more from Defoe and Moore also and probably made the play offs.
They had chances to address this obvious issue during the season and choose not to.

[Ivy]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/23/mother-at-the-centre-of-jermain-defoe-drama-sources

:facepalm:

El. Oh. El.

[ryan]

What a fucking twat.

[Red4ever]

"The reds believe they can get more out of Gilberto with the addition of a prominent attacking midfielder"- no shit sherlock, if we had one this season, we'd got a lot more from Defoe and Moore also and probably made the play offs.
They had chances to address this obvious issue during the season and choose not to.

Revisionist history is indeed just that, but I wonder if we would have been a less desirable place to be by cutting Gilberto before he played a game, keeping Laba and accepting that stigma, or going the route we went and the fall out. Does Defoe stay if we're Top 2 in the east?

It's so baffling to me that management knew they were going after a big name and knew there might be players willing to come here based on that name, and yet still locked in an unrelated DP.

[RealG-TFC]

Wouldn't be surprised if Defoe's girl is pushing him to go to London too. Probably excited at the prospect of being a glorified wag.

[RealG-TFC]

Revisionist history is indeed just that, but I wonder if we would have been a less desirable place to be by cutting Gilberto before he played a game, keeping Laba and accepting that stigma, or going the route we went and the fall out. Does Defoe stay if we're Top 2 in the east?

It's so baffling to me that management knew they were going after a big name and knew there might be players willing to come here based on that name, and yet still locked in an unrelated DP.

Unreal how you still maintain such unfounded animosity for Gilberto. We got Bradley for Laba and everyone knows it.

[Ultra & Proud]

Unreal how you still maintain such unfounded animosity for Gilberto. We got Bradley for Laba and everyone knows it.
This is totally right. Does everyone forget that Gilberto was the first of the new DPs we signed? Never understood this confusion.

And no AM because Nelsen didn't value one in his flat 4-4-2 formation.

[Canary10]

This is totally right. Does everyone forget that Gilberto was the first of the new DPs we signed? Never understood this confusion.

And no AM because Nelsen didn't value one in his flat 4-4-2 formation.

He was only first because we had to wait for the transfer window to open to sign Defoe. Defoe was done in principle in November, before Gilberto signed (officially).

[brad]

This is totally right. Does everyone forget that Gilberto was the first of the new DPs we signed? Never understood this confusion.

And no AM because Nelsen didn't value one in his flat 4-4-2 formation.

It's not confusion it's two different perspectives.

[Red4ever]

He was only first because we had to wait for the transfer window to open to sign Defoe. Defoe was done in principle in November, before Gilberto signed (officially).

Right you are. My timelines were fuzzy.

[Red4ever]

Unreal how you still maintain such unfounded animosity for Gilberto. We got Bradley for Laba and everyone knows it.

I don't think it's unfounded or animosity really. My point is that we could have cut bait with Gilberto before he played a game. And, would the very shitty optics of that decision be outweighed by the current optics? All I'm asking.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't think it's unfounded or animosity really. My point is that we could have cut bait with Gilberto before he played a game. And, would the very shitty optics of that decision be outweighed by the current optics? All I'm asking.

Cutting Gilberto out of the picture before he even played a game, would have looked terrible, and even possibly harmed our franchise reputation further. It'd be like doing a sign-and-trade in the NBA, without the player's knowledge or blessing. And hindsight is 20/20 - we couldn't possibly have known that the Defoe era would end up in such a mess so quickly.

[ag futbol]

^ I think if we really had quality managers, instead of a kid who should be fetching coffee for sr lawyers, a dumb ex-player as a coach, and a circus-huckster president ... They might have figured it out.

To me it sounds like Nelsen gets it in his head Defoe is the guy. Leiweke backs it because of the hype. Bez nods politely because that's his role in the organization.

Someone prudent would have turned over rocks, realized The issues with Defoe and his lack of motivation beyond making the England Squad. The fact they had to chase this guy so hard he clearly didn't want to be here just pointed to the fact the signing was a bad idea. But they went straight to the newspaper scribes to sell stories about what amazing deal makers they are. They can certainly close, I'll give them that, but they are empty headed about how to actually run a team.

[Red4ever]

Cutting Gilberto out of the picture before he even played a game, would have looked terrible, and even possibly harmed our franchise reputation further. It'd be like doing a sign-and-trade in the NBA, without the player's knowledge or blessing. And hindsight is 20/20 - we couldn't possibly have known that the Defoe era would end up in such a mess so quickly.

I tend to agree. However, I've always felt with Tim L, would cold have got away with cutting Gilberto more than another GM (, again, not that I'm starting a debate on whether that is correct)

But even if Defoe is only half that ass hole that he appears to be, they have to tank his rep and make him look bad as bad as possible the second they find a buyer.

Above all, TFC has to find a way to say, "yeah, but this one wasn't exactly our fault, Defoe was a head case" when trying to woo players. Some of the team mates were fed up with Defoe, we'll see if they player a greater part in the wooing.

[Shakes McQueen]

I tend to agree. However, I've always felt with Tim L, would cold have got away with cutting Gilberto more than another GM (, again, not that I'm starting a debate on whether that is correct)

But even if Defoe is only half that ass hole that he appears to be, they have to tank his rep and make him look bad as bad as possible the second they find a buyer.

Above all, TFC has to find a way to say, "yeah, but this one wasn't exactly our fault, Defoe was a head case" when trying to woo players. Some of the team mates were fed up with Defoe, we'll see if they player a greater part in the wooing.

I have no doubt that this stuff about his mother was probably leaked by no less than Leiweke himself, to start building the case for him to deflect any "blame", now that it seems inevitable that Defoe will be gone.

Personally, I think he should just own it - "Yeah, we ambitiously swung for the fences on this player, and it just didn't work out for whatever reason. If you want to know why, I suggest asking Jermain. We did what we could to make him comfortable." Slinging shit about his mom, even if 100% accurate, is completely unbecoming.

[Yohan]

I have no doubt that this stuff about his mother was probably leaked by no less than Leiweke himself, to start building the case for him to deflect any "blame", now that it seems inevitable that Defoe will be gone.

Personally, I think he should just own it - "Yeah, we ambitiously swung for the fences on this player, and it just didn't work out for whatever reason. If you want to know why, I suggest asking Jermain. We did what we could to make him comfortable." Slinging shit about his mom, even if 100% accurate, is completely unbecoming.
well, TFC has never been a club associated with the word 'class'.

we're going to get a lot of grasping of straws and blame game next couple of weeks.

MLSE is furious that TFC missed the playoffs, and Bez especially is trying to survive. No one is going to man up and take the blame. If anything, Defoe and Nelsen are going to get a lot of poo flung at them.

[OgtheDim]

FWIW, Larson indicated he was working on that story for 3 months. Not sure what that means except that somebody somewhere was talking to somebody about Defoe's Mom back when Nelsen was around and we were still in 3rd. Maybe a crack in an OTR interview with an agent or a player down in Brazil got Larson digging?

i.e. Sure TL gets a lot of spin potential out of this and he's likely the one who filled in the puzzle pieces for Larson. But, there is somebody else wanting to tell this story as well, and that somebody started it back in at least July.

[Defoe]

"The reds believe they can get more out of Gilberto with the addition of a prominent attacking midfielder"- no shit sherlock, if we had one this season, we'd got a lot more from Defoe and Moore also and probably made the play offs.
They had chances to address this obvious issue during the season and choose not to.

Well in fairness, Bradley was suppose to be that attacking midfielder, but Osorio, Bekker, Warner etc were just not capable of holding in CDM. Also let's not act like Bradley was good the last half of the season. He was great to begin the year but for reasons he was just not very good at all to the end the season. Bekker, Warner, Osorio just don't cut in this league, no IQ and and not athletic enough. This league is taking a massive step forward and better quality is needed. My grandpa watches soccer religiously probably over 10,000 matches he's of course retired and watches it all week long and on the weekend and when I turned on the TFC game he picked out Osorio and said no IQ... He's right - you either have or you don't. His work rate is what's kept him in this league but there is no potential here.

[TFC07]

I am honestly surprise to see/hear how much pampering went on to make Defoe and his family happy in Toronto. So I am not surprise that Defoe's family (his mother in this case) played a major role to get Defoe back to England.

I am glad that Defoe is gone, hopefully next DP signing doesn't need much pampering to feel special.

[Defoe]

Imagine if TFC had gotten David Villa... He alone would draw another 5000 fans per game - i'm not kidding. The spanish are crazy for soccer here.

[Red4ever]

I have no doubt that this stuff about his mother was probably leaked by no less than Leiweke himself, to start building the case for him to deflect any "blame", now that it seems inevitable that Defoe will be gone.

Personally, I think he should just own it - "Yeah, we ambitiously swung for the fences on this player, and it just didn't work out for whatever reason. If you want to know why, I suggest asking Jermain. We did what we could to make him comfortable." Slinging shit about his mom, even if 100% accurate, is completely unbecoming.

isnt Tim L sort of bulletproof right now? I mean I think Tim B has more to gain by chucking shit and more to lose by not.

[Shakes McQueen]

isnt Tim L sort of bulletproof right now? I mean I think Tim B has more to gain by chucking shit and more to lose by not.

Tim L is bulletproof in terms of this job, but not necessarily for whatever he's angling for in the future. Plus, it could also be a simple ego thing, if he's pissed about the situation.

[Brooker]

Imagine if TFC had gotten David Villa... He alone would draw another 5000 fans per game - i'm not kidding. The spanish are crazy for soccer here.

Well you picked the wrong god damn username. This rests on your shoulders.

[ag futbol]

Imagine if TFC had gotten David Villa... He alone would draw another 5000 fans per game - i'm not kidding. The spanish are crazy for soccer here.
History of this league suggests otherwise. The impact of named DPs on attendance is vastly over estimated. Outside of Blanco and Beckham, it never works that way.

[Fort York Redcoat]

History of this league suggests otherwise. The impact of named DPs on attendance is vastly over estimated. Outside of Blanco and Beckham, it never works that way.

I think the attendance wasn't the main concern but the initial season ticket boost. The casual that shows up for the DP does it once or twice depending on results and we know how that story went.

[tfc2008]

How you people can support this crap for 8 years

[Hamilton_Red]

How you people can support this crap for 8 years

I think the supporters that are left are the ones who value having a profesional soccer team at the highest level available in the city. We remember what it was like prior to 2007. At least having a last place team you get to see the talent and the league developing. We also hang on to a thread of hope that somehow by random chance we might get lucky and fix this team. Though in reality if it was random we would have made the play-offs at least once. Instead the franchise actively self destructs to ensure an outcome.

[Fort York Redcoat]

How you people can support this crap for 8 years

http://www.thoseposters.com/emailPosters/poster2015.jpg


And thanks for stopping by...

[jvanpeebles]

It is for the same reason that we support the leafs and they have sell outs year after year. They know we will keep coming back. The only thing that will make change is if we stop coming. Now all that being said I believe they thought if they did not make the splash they did when they did this franchise was doomed. They could see that the fans were pissed and it was affecting their STH and walk ups etc. I do believe they tried but here we are again out of the play offs feeling like we got screwed again. What will they do now to entice us back?
How you people can support this crap for 8 years

[JuliquE]

MLSE is furious that TFC missed the playoffs, and Bez especially is trying to survive. No one is going to man up and take the blame. If anything, Defoe and Nelsen are going to get a lot of poo flung at them.
Are we sure it's going to be flung and not deflected?! Because that would make a HUGE difference in determining whether or not what they're saying is.. offside. g:D

[C.Ronaldo]

http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2014/10/28/gilberto-jackson-goncalves-october-28-2014

Gilberto's answer to the question of Defoe is very telling. The translator didnt do it justice. It was answered more like "I dont think about it AT ALL, I could care less". The asnwer was so quick, he seemed sick of talking about Defoe.