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PopePouri
10-01-2014, 01:53 PM
http://www.si.com/soccer/planet-futbol/2014/10/01/thierry-henry-new-york-red-bulls-mls-premier-league-uefa-concussions

RBs seem to have a foot out the door of MLS not investing in a USL Pro team and not adding additional DPs.

Detroit_TFC
10-01-2014, 03:07 PM
This is a bit of a surprise but really shouldn't be. RB's interest seems to have been declining for a couple years now and new competition in town forcing them to up the spending wasn't in their plan. This could be a good development if the right owners are brought in. $300 million is a lot of money but $100M for team and $200M for stadium isn't that crazy.

Big worry is that new owners aren't found in the short term, and meanwhile RB pays less and less attention (and $) to RBNY.

Red CB Toronto
10-01-2014, 03:14 PM
This is a bit of a surprise but really shouldn't be. RB's interest seems to have been declining for a couple years now and new competition in town forcing them to up the spending wasn't in their plan. This could be a good development if the right owners are brought in. $300 million is a lot of money but $100M for team and $200M for stadium isn't that crazy.

Big worry is that new owners aren't found in the short term, and meanwhile RB pays less and less attention (and $) to RBNY.

Would be interesting if the Mets ownership resurfaced, as they were in the discussion early on for the second NYC team.

PopePouri
10-01-2014, 03:17 PM
This is a bit of a surprise but really shouldn't be. RB's interest seems to have been declining for a couple years now and new competition in town forcing them to up the spending wasn't in their plan. This could be a good development if the right owners are brought in. $300 million is a lot of money but $100M for team and $200M for stadium isn't that crazy.

Big worry is that new owners aren't found in the short term, and meanwhile RB pays less and less attention (and $) to RBNY.

Problem is the location of the said stadium and the lack of support.

Yohan
10-01-2014, 03:22 PM
Problem is the location of the said stadium and the lack of support.
because NYRB markets itself as a NY team when it's a NJ team, alienating both NY and NJ

Redcoe15
10-01-2014, 04:33 PM
They can always bring back the MetroStars name.

OgtheDim
10-01-2014, 07:17 PM
There is a market for a second team in that area. A NJ proud team would have a marketing chance against the slick Yankee/Endless pots of money enterprise.

ensco
10-01-2014, 09:39 PM
They can always bring back the MetroStars name.

I lived in NY for 10 years, I was there when the Metrostars started (I saw Donadoni play), that's how I got introduced to MLS, and I am telling you, ALL the supporters there would give their left nut to get rid of this Red Bull shit and go back to the Metrostars.

Shakes McQueen
10-01-2014, 09:51 PM
The idea that they were named for an energy drink was always ridiculous. It's one thing to have a shirt sponsor, or a stadium sponsor, but quite another to name your entire team after a sponsor. It looks cheap and second-rate.

kodiakTFC
10-01-2014, 11:42 PM
Time for the Cosmos to step up.

JuliquE
10-02-2014, 12:43 AM
Time for the Cosmos to step up.
This is what I came here to say.

Also: nice avatar. =P

habstfc
10-02-2014, 01:07 AM
NYC can not and will not support two teams. Everyone seems to know except Garber and the league offices. Red Bulls are a lame duck franchise.

denime
10-02-2014, 05:44 AM
There is a market for a second team in that area. A NJ proud team would have a marketing chance against the slick Yankee/Endless pots of money enterprise.

Agree,change name to NJ and stadium will be sold out.There is a huge soccer community in NJ and mane reason they are not going to the games is NY instead of NJ.

Technorgasm
10-02-2014, 06:57 AM
But. . .. are they Shite?

yes.
Yes they are.

TOBOR !
10-02-2014, 08:13 AM
The idea that they were named for an energy drink was always ridiculous. It's one thing to have a shirt sponsor, or a stadium sponsor, but quite another to name your entire team after a sponsor. It looks cheap and second-rate.

That makes it sound too simplistic.

Red Bull purchased the team and used it as a vehicle to promote their product. Which they have also done with RB Salzburg, RB Leipzig, RB Brasil and RB Ghana (on the pitch).

There was talk last year that they were also looking to purchase a team in the English Champioship. RB Leeds United, perhaps.

Anyway, teams with corporate names is part of the game's history - Bayer Leverkusen for instance. Also see Army and Police teams (particularly in Russia and Communist Germany in the day).

As you were.

Oldtimer
10-02-2014, 09:08 AM
That makes it sound too simplistic.

Red Bull purchased the team and used it as a vehicle to promote their product. Which they have also done with RB Salzburg, RB Leipzig, RB Brasil and RB Ghana (on the pitch).

There was talk last year that they were also looking to purchase a team in the English Champioship. RB Leeds United, perhaps.

Anyway, teams with corporate names is part of the game's history - Bayer Leverkusen for instance. Also see Army and Police teams (particularly in Russia and Communist Germany in the day).

As you were.

or Arsenal, for that matter:


Arsenal Football Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C.) was founded in 1886 as a munition workers' team from Woolwich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolwich), then in Kent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent), now southeast London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London) (Wikipedia).

PopePouri
10-02-2014, 09:45 AM
There's a difference with the hostile takeovers done with the Red Bulls Corporation and ones discussed like Bayer Leverkusen. For one, the corporation and football club are built into the 100 year tradition of the club which eliminates the corporatism a bit. The Bayer part is almost an afterthought the football club itself.

The issue with the Red Bulls is they buy clubs and eliminate all tradition associated with it, then surrounding fans with their brand colours and symbol. I couldn't support a club like that, it would feel artificial to me.

TOBOR !
10-02-2014, 10:57 AM
There's a difference with the hostile takeovers done with the Red Bulls Corporation and ones discussed like Bayer Leverkusen. For one, the corporation and football club are built into the 100 year tradition of the club which eliminates the corporatism a bit. The Bayer part is almost an afterthought the football club itself.

The issue with the Red Bulls is they buy clubs and eliminate all tradition associated with it, then surrounding fans with their brand colours and symbol. I couldn't support a club like that, it would feel artificial to me.

I'll give you that. And had Red Bull been around 150 years ago they might have done it the same way.

However, time marches on and this seems to be the modern way of doing things.

PopePouri
10-02-2014, 11:20 AM
I'll give you that. And had Red Bull been around 150 years ago they might have done it the same way.

However, time marches on and this seems to be the modern way of doing things.

I think there's a right and wrong way. IMO Keeping the identity and colours are essential if a new buyer comes in.

kodiakTFC
10-02-2014, 11:51 AM
NYC can not and will not support two teams. Everyone seems to know except Garber and the league offices. Red Bulls are a lame duck franchise.

I have to disagree with you. I think NY and LA both can support two teams as long as its done correctly.

Alonso
10-02-2014, 03:14 PM
because NYRB markets itself as a NY team when it's a NJ team, alienating both NY and NJ


New Jersey rebrand and sale might be in the cards?

Shakes McQueen
10-02-2014, 04:15 PM
That makes it sound too simplistic.

Red Bull purchased the team and used it as a vehicle to promote their product. Which they have also done with RB Salzburg, RB Leipzig, RB Brasil and RB Ghana (on the pitch).

There was talk last year that they were also looking to purchase a team in the English Champioship. RB Leeds United, perhaps.

Anyway, teams with corporate names is part of the game's history - Bayer Leverkusen for instance. Also see Army and Police teams (particularly in Russia and Communist Germany in the day).

As you were.

The difference, for me, is that they implement the brand in the North American style - the team is technically called the NEW YORK RED BULLS, and the team's branding is awash in Red Bull logos and colours. "RB New York" sounds far less chintzy.

Shakes McQueen
10-02-2014, 04:17 PM
or Arsenal, for that matter

That isn't corporate. A bunch of workers at the local arsenal decided to form a team, and called themselves Dial Square... then Royal Arsenal... then Woolwich Arsenal... then just Arsenal.

Cashcleaner
10-02-2014, 11:40 PM
NYC can not and will not support two teams. Everyone seems to know except Garber and the league offices. Red Bulls are a lame duck franchise.

I used to think that. In fact, when the concept of a second team in New York was first floating about a few years back I was pretty vocal about my feelings on exactly that. Nowadays, even with this news I'm not so sure anymore. The whole New York/New Jersey area has about 20 million people. That should be enough to properly support two teams - even if one is way out in Harrison, NJ.

Like others have suggested, if the red Bulls is marketed as a NY/NJ team there may be no problem sharing that region with the expansion side playing out of The Bronx.

habstfc
10-03-2014, 01:15 AM
I used to think that. In fact, when the concept of a second team in New York was first floating about a few years back I was pretty vocal about my feelings on exactly that. Nowadays, even with this news I'm not so sure anymore. The whole New York/New Jersey area has about 20 million people. That should be enough to properly support two teams - even if one is way out in Harrison, NJ.

Like others have suggested, if the red Bulls is marketed as a NY/NJ team there may be no problem sharing that region with the expansion side playing out of The Bronx. They play in a 25,000 seat stadium I don't think has ever been sold out for an mls game. 20 million people and they average 19k. I just don't see it (2 successful NY teams) happening.

Fort York Redcoat
10-03-2014, 06:45 AM
http://www.prosportsblogging.com/psb/custom/3056-ny_nj_nets_logo_300.jpg

The Devils are the only exception so far...

Initial B
10-03-2014, 11:47 AM
Um, how many EPL teams does London support again? Don't they have the same population base as New York?

Then again, it just might be that the whole sports scene in saturated in most North American cities. New York has 2 of everything - NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB. People only have so much time and money they can invest in a particular team. That's not even including any minor league franchises like Cosmos.

bones
10-03-2014, 12:25 PM
Um, how many EPL teams does London support again? Don't they have the same population base as New York?

Then again, it just might be that the whole sports scene in saturated in most North American cities. New York has 2 of everything - NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB. People only have so much time and money they can invest in a particular team. That's not even including any minor league franchises like Cosmos.

Islanders and Rangers are based in NY, Devils are based in NJ. So by this NY doesn't have an actively playing team in based in NY. :)

I think it would be a good idea to re-brand the team NJ RB or whatever. Give the people of NJ a sense of pride in their team being called a name after where they play. My reasoning is based on this:

If a second "Ottawa" USL team popped up in Hull, errr, Gatineau and called themselves the "AS United Ottawa FC Cities" no one in their right mind would say they're an a team in Ottawa. This was the closest reference to 2 cities very close together that are in different States/Province, have different governing bodies and even some laws etc.

all is "moot" anyway ;) the Don has spoken and NY(J)RB is not for sale.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/10/02/mls-commissioner-don-garber-new-york-red-bulls-not-sale

james
10-17-2014, 10:51 PM
Problems Red Bulls have:

1) The name, fans do not like being named after a energy drink. (As many Salzburg fans also hated the change in Austria)

2) Minus the Giants and Jets, all other sport teams playing in New Jersey have been a tough sale. Nets had poor attendance for years and moved to Brooklyn. Devils have always had a hard time selling tickets, even when they moved to the new stadium in Newark. And all tho Islanders play in Long Island, they to have struggled with poor attendance for ages, and I believe are also moving to Brooklyn in 2015 or 2016. Just shows unless you are a Jets or Giants fan, selling tickets outside of NYC is tough.

3) They now have competition, as a new New York team joins the league, that will play in NYC.

4) New Yorkers hate to travel to Jersey side.

5) New Jersey cites across from Manhattan do not have the same massive population that New York City has, not even close. Nor does it have a massive transit system equal to New York City (New York City Subway daily ridership is around 5.5 million people, also adding daily bus ridership and other train services New York City daily transit users add up to 30% of the entire USA daily transit ridership). Being on a main Subway line can be huge to boosting ticket sales for any sport team.

But I think there can be some hope. A name change could help, changing name to metro-stars is a great one (I also thought maybe changing the name to New Jersey Metro-stars to start a rivalry with NYC team, but then thought that might turn off fans who have supported them, but are from New York, and anyways you can have a rivalry based on how close they are to each other, even without calling them New Jersey.) 2 teams adds rivalry, adding more fans. And maybe most fans who currently support the Red Bulls have no plan on switching over to support the new team, meaning attendance might not drop.

Last thing I like to say is, I don't mind a 2nd team in NYC, I just hate the fact they are playing for at least 3 years in Yankee Stadium (and probably longer then that, no stadium construction site has been decided as far as I know). MLS is kind of going backwards, it looked like shit when previous teams played in ball parks, we got rid of them all, and now we all of a sudden bring a new one back to a ball park??? I don't like it.

Fort York Redcoat
10-18-2014, 06:16 AM
The mass exodus from Red Bull Stadium will not be televised and a tonne of New Yorkers will be adopting excuses to support the big team. The ones that remain will be the ones that build the bitter rivalry with ones who jump ship.

It is kind of funny with one NY team a commercial in their name and the other in a baseball stadium.

I'm hoping to see Red Bull stadium next season. I don't feel the need to see footy in the classic ball diamond.

Cashcleaner
10-18-2014, 01:35 PM
Last thing I like to say is, I don't mind a 2nd team in NYC, I just hate the fact they are playing for at least 3 years in Yankee Stadium (and probably longer then that, no stadium construction site has been decided as far as I know). MLS is kind of going backwards, it looked like shit when previous teams played in ball parks, we got rid of them all, and now we all of a sudden bring a new one back to a ball park??? I don't like it.

Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of groundsharing in a baseball stadium. As good of a location as Yankee stadium is, NYCFC is still missing out here. I'm sorta surprised they couldn't work out something with one of the NY universities.

cherono
03-01-2015, 03:24 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/01/nyregion/a-decision-for-soccer-fans-new-york-city-football-club-or-red-bulls.html

Whose Side Are You On?A Decision for Soccer Fans: New York City Football Club or Red Bulls

Cashcleaner
03-01-2015, 04:08 PM
^ Good read. Thanks for the link, Cherono!

kodiakTFC
03-01-2015, 10:44 PM
I think like many of you, I thought NYC2 was a poor decision on the leagues part. I figured it would destroy the NYRB fan base and would impede all the work and investments Red Bull has made. With NYCFC at some 14,000 season ticket holders, reports have said only 10% of these are disavowed NYRB fans and many of them stopping supporting NYRB many years ago.

So how is NYRB doing? This offseason they've sold a record high 9,500 season tickets and their FO seems to think 10,000 is possible. This is incredible! MLS/NYCFC have seemingly managed to bring in a whole new segment of New York without sabotaging NYRB. I'm honestly completely shocked.

Source:
http://bigapplesoccer.com/teams/redbulls2.php?article_id=40116

Fort York Redcoat
03-02-2015, 08:46 AM
I think like many of you, I thought NYC2 was a poor decision on the leagues part. I figured it would destroy the NYRB fan base and would impede all the work and investments Red Bull has made. With NYCFC at some 14,000 season ticket holders, reports have said only 10% of these are disavowed NYRB fans and many of them stopping supporting NYRB many years ago.

So how is NYRB doing? This offseason they've sold a record high 9,500 season tickets and their FO seems to think 10,000 is possible. This is incredible! MLS/NYCFC have seemingly managed to bring in a whole new segment of New York without sabotaging NYRB. I'm honestly completely shocked.

Source:
http://bigapplesoccer.com/teams/redbulls2.php?article_id=40116

I'm shocked about NYRB's success this offseason in ticketselling. They had that travesty of a Town Hall where it seemed to be pretty damning of the organization. Anyway, this kind of talk is why I'm prioritizing going to NYRB this year before the trouble starts. I don't want to visit a Jersey Chivas.
NYCFC doesn't surprise me with those numbers. Plenty of fans that don't want to leave the city but the onus is on them to succeed. New Yorkers need a winner. They wouldn't have more than one season leeway I'd imagine.

Detroit_TFC
03-02-2015, 09:46 AM
RB never marketed the team properly. They didn't need to, so they didn't. CFG blows in, made a media impact. Creation of NYCFC probably did more to raise the profile of RBNY than anything RB did since building RBA.

There's virtually nothing about NYCFC that is organic but even so, I'd love to be at RBA when NYCFC plays there, could be special.

Platts
03-02-2015, 01:37 PM
The league seems to be going through a shakeout process as the money is getting higher.

I don't care either way about NYRB, however it would be a real shame to waste their great stadium. My real fear is that the L'imp Act are getting ready to drop out of sight and return to the second level where they have thrived in the past. There are not enough teams in the north as it stands and the trend as in other sports towards south and western teams is not good IMO.