Match day 26: Toronto FC Vs Philadelphia Union, 2:00. BMO Field

[GhostKiller]

Toronto FC 9-10-6 (33) E4th

Philly Union 8-9-9 (33) E6th

Toronto is without Defo, Caldwell and Morrow and Morgan.

After seeing the lineup Vanney put out Wednesday I have no clue what to expect.

Maybe

------------------Bendik-------------------
Bloom------Orr----Henry-----Hagglund
----------Warner--------Bradley---------
Lovitz-----------------------------Osorio
------------Gilberto-----Moore-------

Maybe Oduro in there somewhere. I don't fully understand where Vanney sees him playing. And if Orr is injured then Richter could shift Hagglund on the inside.

[Graeme]

I saw on twitter that apparently Orr has a broken toe (and I think Bekker is also at CMNT camp).

Based on the last ten minutes of Wednesday's game (hahahaha), I'm going with this:

------------------Bendik-----------------------
--Bloom---Hagglund--Henry----Creaville---
--Weeds----Bradley--Warner-----Moore---
-----------Dike---Gilberto------------------

Bench: No one

[Ultra & Proud]

I would go without Lovitz as I think he gets too much credit for his little moments of flash but is otherwise pointless and our backline will be poor. Very poor.

This line up here shouts 3-1 Union to me. I am being nice with the 1 too.

[Canary10]

I would go without Lovitz as I think he gets too much credit for his little moments of flash but is otherwise pointless and our backline will be poor. Very poor.

This line up here shouts 3-1 Union to me. I am being nice with the 1 too.

This is the first time all season I've dreaded the thought of going to a game. Maybe they'll surprise us.

[Joe Kool]

The Philly team that played on Wednesday would have been smoked by our TFC team from earlier this season IMO but as it happened we made it look like an even game with them having the edge on being the better team as well and I don't think it was just because they were at home. Philly was bracing for a tough first 15 min from a team trying to impress their new coach. Sadly that never happened and the first 15 min lacked offense like the majority of the game. Too bad the way things have gone for our team. I think this game will go pretty much along the same lines. I can't see us winning or even tying at the moment unless the one or two chances we get happen to go in. Going to Chicago to see the away game next week and have never seen an away win in person...not much confidence I will this time either. Good luck Reds!!! Let's get some luck for Saturday.

[Ultra & Proud]

Losing Osorio apparently makes this look even worse. If we all out defend and counter with Gilberto then maybe we have a chance to surprise. We ask these players to play the system that Vanney seems to want and we will get shredded. Badly.

That being said I would be all for what Vanney wants. He seems like he has the right ideas but with all our injuries this squad just won't be able to hold it together. If we want to write off the season then yes but if we have any shred of playoff aspiration then we will have to support our backline with all we got and hope for chances.

[Mark TFC]

I have a pair of tickets in 111 and my buddy has a pair in 113. My question is, is it frowned upon to stand together as a group in either section even though we clearly have seats in two different areas? I guess what I'm asking is, can we all sneak in together?

[Initial B]

I'm guessing 2-1 Union again and the knives will start coming out. It's still too early for Vanney to have really implemented anything. But I won't be worried unless we lose the following week.

[ManUtd4ever]

This is a must win. If not to mathematically hold a playoff spot, then for the morale of the team. Once these losing skids gain momentum, they tend to take on a life of their own, as we all know too well.

[OgtheDim]

I never dread going to a game.

I do dread what the heck is going to happen when Henry has the ball.


******

On another note, I doubt Osorio is playing. He is not training today.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is a must win. If not to mathematically hold a playoff spot, then for the morale of the team. Once these losing skids gain momentum, they tend to take on a life of their own, as we all know too well.

MMW - Morale Must Win

I agree.

Also, Chicago are hungry. At least their forwards are. We need these 3 points.

[GhostKiller]

What happened to Osorio?

[OgtheDim]

He went down right at the half against Philly. Leg something....was to be scanned. Him not training today looks like he's out.

[notthesun]

Osorio very likely out, Morrow probably out, Creavalle is back and ready to play.

It's gonna be Bloom at LB and Creavalle at RB with Henry-Hagglund in the middle.

[OgtheDim]

You know things are weird when Creavalle is the wiley veteran in the back.

[Suds]

Show up, get drunk, hope we win.


That's about it for Saturday.

[OgtheDim]

Yonge line closed between Lawrence and Bloor.

[portu]

Coming up from Barrie so its going to be great to see the boys play live again regardless of the result

Bendik; Creavalle, Hagglund, Henry, Bloom; Jackson, Bekker, Bradley, Lovitz; Dike, Gilberto

Bench: Konopka, Orr (Questionable), Richter, Oduro, Warner, De Ro, Moore

Very few options at right back given that Orr is questionable, I don't see why you would recall Bekker and De Ro if you didn't plan on using them so I can see Bekker starting next Bradley for a change of scenery and De Ro probably on at the 60 min mark for Dike. For Jackson its just a matter of fresh legs I think. So probably Oduro comes on at half to relieve Lovitz?

This is all still so unpredictable to me so i wont bother to predict

[C.Ronaldo]

Show up, get drunk, hope we win.


That's about it for Saturday.

show up, drank
they score drank
we mess up drank
faded drank
faded drank

new rendition of Swimming Pools - by TFC Supporters

[OgtheDim]

Larson Tweet

Bradley on BMO: "We need them to be loud and on top of the game. On the flip side, we need to play in a way that engages them."

[OgtheDim]

Oh, and in case somebody didn't notice:

Bekker and DeRo recalled.

[portu]

Loving Gilberto firing shots at Matt Doyle and naysayers on Instagram



http://instagram.com/p/slCozkrn5_/

English Translation:
No willpower to fight the battles that life imposes on us, we will not succeed in our existence.
Fight for power gain what you want. Author unknown

[pdubs]

Pipe dream but id like Vanney to change it up. Key words pipe dream lol.
-Back 4 is what it is.. depleted.
-Midfield 3 of Warner, Bradley, Jackson. I know the Warner and Bradley midfield hasn't worked out but adding Jackson's defensive ability in there "may" help.
-Forward 3 has speed and pace. Gilberto in the winger position could be interesting. We know he has the defensive workrate, and with the speedy Oduro on the opposite and big 220lbs Dike in the middle could result into something significant. If anything Philly will have to change and evolve from last game cause it would be a completely different look. I am worried about Oduro's defensive work rate but his speed helps a lot.
-Moore could the target man instead of Dike. Dero/Lovitz could sub in on the wing potentially.
-this also keeps Bekker off the field.

------------------Bendik-----------------------
--Creaville---Hagglund--Henry----Bloom---
------Warner---Bradley-----Jackson---
--------Oduro---Dike---Gilberto------

[MightyDM]

Losing Osorio apparently makes this look even worse. If we all out defend and counter with Gilberto then maybe we have a chance to surprise. We ask these players to play the system that Vanney seems to want and we will get shredded. Badly.

That being said I would be all for what Vanney wants. He seems like he has the right ideas but with all our injuries this squad just won't be able to hold it together. If we want to write off the season then yes but if we have any shred of playoff aspiration then we will have to support our backline with all we got and hope for chances.

Why are injury excuses valid for Vanney but not Nelsen? Bizarre.

[Carts]

Wake up, get drunk, show up, get more drunk, hope we win, get more drunk.


That's about it for Saturday.


I fixed your post for accuracy.... :drinking:

Or as I say.... WIN OR LOSE, WE HIT THE BOOZE!!!!

[Pint]

show up, drank
they score drank
we mess up drank
faded drank
faded drank

new rendition of Swimming Pools - by TFC Supporters

you leading this in 127 tomorrow?

[Pint]

maybe a round of:

why did we sign jermain Defoe?
he doesn't want to play no moe
we didn't know he'd he such a hoe
why'd we sign Defoe, defoe

repeat

[BuSaPuNk]

maybe a round of:

why did we sign jermain Defoe?
he doesn't want to play no moe
we didn't know he'd he such a hoe
why'd we sign Defoe, defoe

repeat

A Quitter
A Quitter
A Bloddy Big Quitter,
A Bloddy Big Quitter
Defooooeeeeee.

[Suds]

show up, drank
they score drank
we mess up drank
faded drank
faded drank

new rendition of Swimming Pools - by TFC Supporters


I fixed your post for accuracy.... :drinking:

Or as I say.... WIN OR LOSE, WE HIT THE BOOZE!!!!




Actually, I was posting the TFC coaching staff tactics for today's game. g:D

[Pookie]

Larson Tweet

Bradley on BMO: "We need them to be loud and on top of the game. On the flip side, we need to play in a way that engages them."

I correlate the quietness not to the style of play but the league's decision to ban the streamers.

When Toronto fans are told to settle down, they become like Jays/Leaf fans overnight. Sit nice, be polite and don't disturb the people around you.

Streamers were something unique about BMO and fans got rev'd up for throws and corner kicks. Now, you get the who are ya but not the same way that it was. It's now loud when they score and that's about it. We are a hop step and a jump away from "Make Noise Now" prompts.

[OgtheDim]

DeRo starts!!!!!!!!!!!!

[notthesun]

XI: Bendik, Hagglund, Orr, Henry, Bloom, DeRo, Warner, Bradley, Oduro, Moore, Gilberto

Bench: Konopka, Richter, Creavalle, Bekker, Jackson, Lovitz, Wiedeman

I wonder if Dike is still healthy or if it's just selection that has Wiedeman ahead of him.

[shwade]

DeRo starts!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he makes it to halftime with gas stil in the tank I'll be surprised. DeRo as an AM with Bradley in the middle would have been nicer, no?

[Pookie]

Team needs a spark. An onfield leader. I think Bradley can be that but DeRo certainly can too.

I was hoping he would get a chance to play. Looking forward to it.

[v00d00daddy]

Yeah it's a weird selection with both DeRo and Oduro AND Warner. Not really sure who is gonna play where and under what formation.

We shall see.

4-4-2 with DeRo and Oduro as Winger?

4-4-2 Diamond with them as wingers and Bradley up top?

4-3-3 with DeRo as the third striker with Moore and Gilberto

or 4-3-3 with Oduro as the third striker

Buh. LOL

[Ajax TFC]

That lineup has some serious fire power, but also some serious holes defensively. We need to go hard on the gas at the beginning and pin them back.

[OgtheDim]

Vanney out watching the keepers warm up, sits with the mascot trainee, talks with him while watching, stays for the first 5 minutes of the outfield warm up then goes in

Routines slightly different all over the warm up. Doesn't mean much I suppose.

[OgtheDim]

Ooops, that ain't Vanney.

[pdubs]

XI: Bendik, Hagglund, Orr, Henry, Bloom, DeRo, Warner, Bradley, Oduro, Moore, Gilberto

Bench: Konopka, Richter, Creavalle, Bekker, Jackson, Lovitz, Wiedeman

I wonder if Dike is still healthy or if it's just selection that has Wiedeman ahead of him.

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) 19m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/508302196354859008)
I saw Dike before the game. Didn't look injured. Told me he felt very good. #TFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TFC?src=hash)

soooo idk. Maybe Vanney feels Wiedeman can drop into wide midfield position or into the striker position so maybe likes his "versatility"? Disappointed at no Dike.

[Stress]

Or maybe he's being traded dun dun dun

[notthesun]

If we trade him for a CB all I'm all for that.

[CBTFC]

Watching the game from my place up on Georgian Bay near Penetang.

Here's hoping a DeRo start sparks the team, and the fans.

TFC!

[mowe]

Let's go TFC!!!

Hopefully two hours from now we'll all have some renewed optimism.

[ag futbol]

Wiedeman played a good game against Spurs, maybe we get some of that this week.

[molenshtain]

the stadium looks wonderfully empty.

[__wowza]

days getting off to a hell of a start, there was a blackout here.
which means my alarm never went off and my phone shut off while it was charging which meant my backup alarm never went off.


knowing this run of luck, it probably means today is gonna be a win.

[QBall]

5 minutes in and TFC definitely applying more pressure in Philly's end than they did in Wednesday's game.

[jloome]

the stadium looks wonderfully empty.

Well, not quite sure Wonderful is the right word...

But what I do know is that Collin Warner is playing too high again.

[ag futbol]

Fuck sakes...

[CBTFC]

fuck sakes

[iansmcl]

Here we go, here we go, here we go.

[pdubs]

cut thru us like butter. mannnn

[QBall]

<Sigh> Casey burns us again

[mowe]

Orr can't control the ball, then loses Casey. Time to see what this team's made of.

[molenshtain]

great

[notthesun]

This is pathetic. They build one attack and score.

No marking in the middle, Orr had no idea there was someone behind him.

Wake the fuck up Bez, how many awful goals do we need to concede for you to trade for a CB.

[shwade]

This is beyond sad for us. Tix on stubhub for 27$ for section 107

[QBall]

Casey is as big as a barn. How did no one see him open?

[jloome]

All following the ball, no one marking players. Unbelievable.

[barticusz]

Hoofball is back. Good thing we changed coaches during a playoff run.

[CBTFC]

Hmmm, curious as to why all the TFC players and coaches are wearing black armbands?

[shwade]

Hmmm, curious as to why all the TFC players and coaches are wearing black armbands?

For the sorry state of TFC.

[jloome]

Hmmm, curious as to why all the TFC players and coaches are wearing black armbands?

AJ De La Garza's son died shortly after being born of a heart defect, yesterday.

[Beach_Red]

Hoofball is back. Good thing we changed coaches during a playoff run.

It's amazing there are still guys willing to coach here.

[CBTFC]

AJ De La Garza's son died shortly after being born of a heart defect, yesterday.

Ack, that's awful...major condolences to AJ and his family.

[barticusz]

I never wanted a coaching change. Always said Nelson needed a full year. But consistency is not allowed for this club and from the majority of supporters.

[molenshtain]

I never wanted a coaching change. Always said Nelson needed a full year. But consistency is not allowed for this club and from the majority of supporters.

you did watch the Revs game right?

[pdubs]

fuck that shot is going in... lucky deflection. keep it up gilberto

[ag futbol]

you did watch the Revs game right?
Hey, when you let the other team pass around you all game you can't hoof it. He has a point!

[pdubs]

I never wanted a coaching change. Always said Nelson needed a full year. But consistency is not allowed for this club and from the majority of supporters.
3 wins in 14 last chunk of nelson's tenure. Plus the demolishing against New England was pathetic.

[ag futbol]

This fucking Phily team. If this ref swallows his whistle again this game while they foul us left and right I'm going to be pissed.

[shwade]

Looking a bit better now

[molenshtain]

Oh fuck off Casey you fat fuck

[barticusz]

3 wins in 14 last chunk of nelson's tenure. Plus the demolishing against New England was pathetic.

Bad games happen especially when you're facing so many injuries.

Vanney said, he wants to hold onto the ball, no more building from back, attacking based football. Yet this team is playing largely the same. There was no reason to switch coaches. By doing so we only made it twice as hard on ourselves to make the playoffs.

[jloome]

I noticed on our last foray forward Bradley consciously checking for Warner's position and hanging back because he was forward. It was the first time they'd gotten it right in 20 minutes.

Maybe we're settling down; might have a shot now.

[ag futbol]

Fucking Casey, what a POS

[pdubs]

henry u idiot

[jloome]

Stupid challenge by Henry; why is he charging out into the midfield third anyway? It's Conor Casey; he doesn't have the speed to isolate anyone.

[pdubs]

Bad games happen especially when you're facing so many injuries.

Vanney said, he wants to hold onto the ball, no more building from back, attacking based football. Yet this team is playing largely the same. There was no reason to switch coaches. By doing so we only made it twice as hard on ourselves to make the playoffs.

at the slide we were on we wouldn't be making the playoffs regardless. Vanney has only had what 6 days? Even if he wants to overall the whole system, hard to do within 6 days, especially 3 games in 7 days.

We need to stop the hoof tho. Our attack buildup is terrible.

[pdubs]

Stupid challenge by Henry; why is he charging out into the midfield third anyway? It's Conor Casey; he doesn't have the speed to isolate anyone.

I thought he would be learning from his mistakes. Doesn't seem to be the case.

[notthesun]

Oh my fucking god how many long balls is Orr going to blast up the field? I think he's at 7 or 8 now and we maintained possession on maybe two of them.

[jloome]

Oh my fucking god how many long balls is Orr going to blast up the field? I think he's at 7 or 8 now and we maintained possession on maybe two of them.

He's told them to look for the long switch of field, as Philly's FBs are often isolated high. we're just doing a shit job of it, and trying it too often.

[jloome]

Our marking is just atrocious.

[ag futbol]

Funny how when you open the game up a bit you start to realize how bad some of the players on this team are...

[__wowza]

at the slide we were on we wouldn't be making the playoffs regardless. Vanney has only had what 6 days? Even if he wants to overall the whole system, hard to do within 6 days, especially 3 games in 7 days.

We need to stop the hoof tho. Our attack buildup is terrible.

like i said elsewhere. attacking football SHOULD NOT MEAN getting the ball up field as quickly as possible.

for the first 20 minutes of the game we were playing counter attacking football on a team that was expecting a counterattack. hoofball is only acceptable when the midfield is stacked and there aren't four defenders in the back waiting on a ball floating in to your one striker whose up top. it's an absolute waste of possession.

[Lumpy]

3 wins in 14 last chunk of nelson's tenure. Plus the demolishing against New England was pathetic.

Nelsen was 2W-2L-1D in his last 5 games. A pace that was plenty good enough to make the playoffs.

[pdubs]

wtf are we doing out there? it is just so easy for Philly.

[QBall]

Defense is in shambles.

[jloome]

Kristian Jack just made a good point; we're positionally rigid. It's ridiculous, but I wouldn't be surprised if having a defender as a coach again has led him to tell them to take positional responsibility first, to the point where there's no movement.... and their nerves are basically shot defensively.

[barticusz]

at the slide we were on we wou;dn't be making the playoffs regardless. Vanney has only had what 6 days? Even if he wants to overall the whole system, hard to do within 6 days, especially 3 games in 7 days.

LA was not good at the start of the year for a good third of the season. Did they fire Arena? No because they understand the value of consistency.

Let the team work itself out of the funk. Instead Vanney is placed into an impossible situation of trying to instill new tactics in a short time. Why handicap him and this team like that? Nelson has to have been given a full season then do as you please.

Now we're faced with a team that still can't create with a possesion based attack because they aren't built for that. They are built as a counterattack team, but everyone knows that now so we're stuck hoofing it.

Absolute idiocy to switch coaching at this point in the year.

[jloome]

LA was not good at the start of the year for a good third of the season. Did they fire Arena? No because they understand the value of consistency.

Let the team work itself out of the funk. Instead Vanney is placed into an impossible situation of trying to instill new tactics in a short time. Why handicap him and this team like that? Nelson has to have been given a full season then do as you please.

Now we're faced with a team that still can't create with a possesion based attack because they aren't built for that. They are built as a counterattack team, but everyone knows that now so we're stuck hoofing it.

Absolute idiocy to switch coaching at this point in the year.

Unless of course the whole Defoe thing demoralized them and galvanized them against Nelsen. He also shut out Canadian players in DeRo and Morgan, banned reporters from field level at practice and limited comments from players. And he defended Defoe all season. Maybe they just thought he was a dick and Bezbatchenko thought they had no shot under Nelsen at all.

[ag futbol]

This central midfield combo of Warner and Bradley absolutely blows.

[notthesun]

LA was not good at the start of the year for a good third of the season. Did they fire Arena? No because they understand the value of consistency.

Laughable that you would reference Arena and what's going on in L.A. as evidence for keeping Nelsen.

TFC had to make a change in the circumstances, it's that simple. Nelsen would be doing no better and would probably be doing worse.

[molenshtain]

LA was not good at the start of the year for a good third of the season. Did they fire Arena? No because they understand the value of consistency.

Let the team work itself out of the funk. Instead Vanney is placed into an impossible situation of trying to instill new tactics in a short time. Why handicap him and this team like that? Nelson has to have been given a full season then do as you please.

Now we're faced with a team that still can't create with a possesion based attack because they aren't built for that. They are built as a counterattack team, but everyone knows that now so we're stuck hoofing it.

Absolute idiocy to switch coaching at this point in the year.

first of all, Arena had a history of starting slowly and gaining tons of steam in the latter half, just like they did this year. Nelsen did not have this reputation.

LA also only lost 3 games during their mediocre start.

[ag futbol]

Bekker is coming on? talk about a shakeup...

Is anyone left in MNT camp?

[Lumpy]

Fire Vanney now

[mowe]

Of course they were going to score again. Is this the season crashing down?

[molenshtain]

i want to hurt myself.

[molenshtain]

Orr loses his man again

[iansmcl]

So... free renewals for anyone who wants them next year? Or free psych evals?

[barticusz]

What the F is Vanney telling his backline to do. Every Fing time Orr gets it he sprays it to no one.

This forward group is so static. They run in straight lines. Just watch how the Philly group interchange and cross over. We're so easy to defend. It's pathetic.

[QBall]

Once again defense caught staring at the ball instead of marking. 2-0 and this game is pretty much done.

[ag futbol]

I'm glad someone else realizes Warner is awful.

[Lumpy]

LA was not good at the start of the year for a good third of the season. Did they fire Arena? No because they understand the value of consistency.

Let the team work itself out of the funk. Instead Vanney is placed into an impossible situation of trying to instill new tactics in a short time. Why handicap him and this team like that? Nelson has to have been given a full season then do as you please.

Now we're faced with a team that still can't create with a possesion based attack because they aren't built for that. They are built as a counterattack team, but everyone knows that now so we're stuck hoofing it.

Absolute idiocy to switch coaching at this point in the year.

Firing Nelsen with 10 games to go was one of the dumbest moves in sports history.

[jloome]

That was just pitiful; was anyone marking a man? They were all just gathered in the smallest area possible in front of the goal, retreating until they couldn't anymore.

Gahd. They're just completely demoralized.

[azorean]

Defejusambles.


Wtf with this team?

[barticusz]

All the Nelson haters should be happy that Vanney has been such a huge improvement! He subbed someone in before the 70min mark!!

[iansmcl]

This guy thinks he deserves starts still? Bah...

[pdubs]

Nelsen was 2W-2L-1D in his last 5 games. A pace that was plenty good enough to make the playoffs.

Win against Montreal (worst team in the league) and Columbus who hasn't looked impressive at all this season. Let's look at those recent losses. Revs 3- 0 TFC, SKC 4 - 1 TFC. SKC 2 -1 TFC. Had a draw against the second worst team in the league Houston.

I don't care how you slice it since start of July we are 3W 5L 4T (Wins against Houston, Montreal, Columbus). 13 points out of 33. Not good enough. -6 goal differential. Context of who we won against and lost against is important. Also the amount of goals given up versus scored.

Again. Not good enough.

[QBall]

At least DeRo is having a pretty good game. Old man still has some spunk in his junk.

[notthesun]

Halftime analysis:

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

[jloome]

Tactically brutal, positionally brutal, individually brutal. One of the worst halves this team has ever played.

I know it's two games; but this DOES reflect on Vanney's value going forward. They're just ill-prepared, sticking to Nelsen's tactics, which still don't work.

Warner was out of position constantly; how he could stick with that midfield pairing is beyond me.

We're pushing too wide to try and play the switch; we don't have the talent to live on the long ball even when we're trying a buildup; it's a tactic that should be reserved for occasions when we're getting controlled and pushed up one flank.

No one is beating anyone with the ball, or even trying. We're so nervous that whenever a player gets the ball, he tries to dish it, or push it wide for a cross, even though Philly has dominant height in the box.

The only players earning their cheque in this game have been Dero, Oduro and Moore. Everyone else was shit.

Fuck. I'm always telling people to wait on their judgement until more evidence is in, but to me, Vanney does not look ready.

[barticusz]

Firing Nelsen with 10 games to go was one of the dumbest moves in sports history.

Bez is in over his head. Thought he was smarter than his coach and wanted to puff his chest.

The fans are left to suffer. Well at least the ones who knew a coaching change before the most important games of the year was complete lunacy.

[adam1001]

Meltdown of epic proportions.

[jloome]

I think the Red Patch Boys should take serious consideration of an off-season protest for this club never hiring an experienced manager. Ever. It's time for the one remaining area that has never been addressed to be addressed.

[pdubs]

LA was not good at the start of the year for a good third of the season. Did they fire Arena? No because they understand the value of consistency.

Let the team work itself out of the funk. Instead Vanney is placed into an impossible situation of trying to instill new tactics in a short time. Why handicap him and this team like that? Nelson has to have been given a full season then do as you please.

Now we're faced with a team that still can't create with a possesion based attack because they aren't built for that. They are built as a counterattack team, but everyone knows that now so we're stuck hoofing it.

Absolute idiocy to switch coaching at this point in the year.

Can't compare Arena's experience and resume with Nelson's. It doesn't make sense lol.

[shwade]

Cant believe that fat hick Casey has scored on us twice in 2 games. Dude actually has a beer belly.

[mowe]

Halftime analysis:

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

SIGN A CB

And this was something we needed since the start of the season. Other than 33 year old Caldwell we had Henry (21), Hagglund (21), and Boss (22) as our CBs.

[iansmcl]

And this was something we needed since the start of the season. Other than 33 year old Caldwell we had Henry (21), Hagglund (21), and Boss (22) as our CBs.

Could Nelson not have played for us? Surely he'd not be that bad yet.

[jloome]

And this was something we needed since the start of the season. Other than 33 year old Caldwell we had Henry (21), Hagglund (21), and Boss (22) as our CBs.

Orr has played centrally a lot, but he's always been a third division player, so not someone you count on to run the backline.

This probably got worse when Julio Cesar left, as he was very vocal and helped organize the backline. Not sure Bendik does that.

[pdubs]

Bottom of the barrel positive? Vanney recognized the Warner-Bradley midfield isn't working. Putting the attacking Bekker on is better. (Laughing because Bekker is garbage. However halftime-non injury sub is telling. And no one on the bench.)

[shwade]

I think the Red Patch Boys should take serious consideration of an off-season protest for this club never hiring an experienced manager. Ever. It's time for the one remaining area that has never been addressed to be addressed.

Maybe Bradley is trying to get his dad over here for next season.

[molenshtain]

so much possesion! for all you possession heads out there.

[portu]

If I wasn't paying to be here is have left this is absolutely abysmal

[barticusz]

Win against Montreal (worst team in the league) and Columbus who hasn't looked impressive at all this season. Let's look at those recent losses. Revs 3- 0 TFC, SKC 4 - 1 TFC. SKC 2 -1 TFC. Had a draw against the second worst team in the league Houston.

I don't care how you slice it since start of July we are 3W 5L 4T (Wins against Houston, Montreal, Columbus). 12 points out of 33. Not good enough. -6 goal differential. Context of who we won against and lost against is important. Also the amount of goals given up versus scored.

Again. Not good enough.

So replacing Nelson with a completely inexperienced manager was supposed to help how? I get it if you bring in a guy who had managed before but this move made no sense.

Our three losses came against Skc one of the best teams in the league and Ner which may be the streakiest team in the league.

We were starting to finally play some nice football while still stumbling from time to time. The last two displays have been horrendous.

Seriously just lose everything so we can draft Larin. Playoffs is a word that shouldn't be discussed here. Not for another couple of years because we restarted yet again, and likely will again before 2015.

[shwade]

If I wasn't paying to be here is have left this is absolutely abysmal

The only way this would be more epic is if Bradley walks out of the team at half time.

[flamehawk]

Bottom of the barrel positive? Vanney recognized the Warner-Bradley midfield isn't working. Putting the attacking Bekker on is better. (Laughing because Bekker is garbage. However halftime-non injury sub is telling. And no one on the bench.)


Not so sure theres no injury. Warner marched straight into the locker room w physio.

... So depressed at the game right now :(

[OgtheDim]

This team never adjusted from losing Laba.

All I want this half is a goal and some players to show some heart.

[bigredone]

Laughable that you would reference Arena and what's going on in L.A. as evidence for keeping Nelsen.

TFC had to make a change in the circumstances, it's that simple. Nelsen would be doing no better and would probably be doing worse.

this doesnt take into account the damage to the mental health of the team by the firing. Nelly would not have that handicap.

[jloome]

Oh god. I think He's told Bradley to stay up and Bekker to rove back. Tell me it's not true.

[SKB]

Cannot believe how the team has fallen in quality. TFC has gone from a top 5 team to a bottom 5 team. Tim B move to replace the entire coaching staff with 10 games to go had made things worse. It is fine if you want to fire the coach but you need a replacement. The back line has totally lost their confidence. No idea why Orr is back there with Henry. Also as someone pointed there is no fluidity to the team and no movement off the ball. New coach has made things worse. Call Bradley's Dad now. We need an experienced coach. We will not make the play offs with the team in its present state.

[notthesun]

this doesnt take into account the damage to the mental health of the team by the firing. Nelly would not have that handicap.

Yeah he would just have half the team hating him

[pdubs]

So replacing Nelson with a completely inexperienced manager was supposed to help how? I get it if you bring in a guy who had managed before but this move made no sense.

Our three losses came against Skc one of the best teams in the league and Ner which may be the streakiest team in the league.

We were starting to finally play some nice football while still stumbling from time to time. The last two displays have been horrendous.

Seriously just lose everything so we can draft Larin. Playoffs is a word that shouldn't be discussed here. Not for another couldn't of years because we restarted yet again, and likely will again before 2015.

I agree with Bez that Nelson had to go. Collectively this team was going no where. We can dig all the data, ect.

I disagree with signing Vanney. Like you said no experience and such. I would like to see an experienced one come in. However, with the absolute abysmal Rev's game and comments afterwards (plus are overall play since the start of July) Nelson had to go. The way the team played against the Rev's looked liked his lost support of the players. We can look at who we beat and who we lost too, and bring in gold differential and such. THe major point is the aftermath of that rev's game tho.

Vanney in the interm is ok I guess. IF when we can, bring in a quality manager with experience. We deserve that.

[pdubs]

Not so sure theres no injury. Warner marched straight into the locker room w physio.

... So depressed at the game right now :(

Ah bahhhh. I was hopeful lol.

[v00d00daddy]

There is not one creative minded, technically sound player on the field in red right now.

Not dero today...not Gilberto today and not Bradley as usual lately. Weird

Our back line is physically dominant and mentally garbage. As usual.

[jloome]

We should offer Adrian Heath complete control, GM and coach, and the richest deal in the league to make it something he can't turn down. That's the DP we really need in the offseason, a fucking coach with a winning record.

[pdubs]

Gilberto tracking back. Oduro looks bored on defense

edit- bad tackle but I like his aggression and motivation lol

[molenshtain]

We should offer Adrian Heath complete control, GM and coach, and the richest deal in the league to make it something he can't turn down. That's the DP we really need in the offseason, a fucking coach with a winning record.

Heath already has that. The most we can hope for is Seattle not making the final and Sigi get's fired for it.

[v00d00daddy]

Oh boy. Gilberto wants a card

[jloome]

Heath already has that. The most we can hope for is Seattle not making the final and Sigi get's fired for it.

He doesn't have the money. Arena makes more than a million a year.

[ag futbol]

Uggh. I don't know what's worse: watching this tfc team struggle or doing it against a bunch of douchebag phily players.

[notthesun]

Biggest flaw in Leiweke's plan was keeping Nelsen on. He looked at what he did in LA and thought he just needed the players. What he really had there was Bruce Arena.

If Leiweke had fired Nelsen and signed a winning coach in the off-season we'd be in comfortable playoff position and challenging the top teams in the league.

[molenshtain]

He doesn't have the money. Arena makes more than a million a year.

I'd imagine he'll be getting a raise for his efforts.

[v00d00daddy]

Gilberto tracking back. Oduro looks bored on defense

Oduro is fucking useless. Speed and stupid hairdo. That's it.

I don't know who brought him in but whoever wanted him should be banished.

Whether it was Nelsen or bez or vanney.

Whoever it was is shitty at identifying what makes a good footballer.

[jloome]

I'd imagine he'll be getting a raise for his efforts.

THat's my point, though. It'd be better to give Adrian Heath an insane amount of money, by MLS standards, than Jermain Defoe. Just guarantee him no matter what anyone makes in the league, he'll be given 10% more. It's a "we need you most" offer, the kind of deal that would set him for life and give him a real challenge.

[molenshtain]

Oduro is fucking useless. Speed and stupid hairdo. That's it.

I don't know who brought him in but whoever wanted him should be banished.

Whether it was Nelsen or bez or vanney.

Whoever it was is shitty at identifying what makes a good footballer.

he's scored a fair few goals in this league...

[barticusz]

I agree with Bez that Nelson had to go. Collectively this team was going no where. We can dig all the data, ect.

I disagree with signing Vanney. Like you said no experience and such. I would like to see an experienced one come in. However, with the absolute abysmal Rev's game and comments afterwards (plus are overall play since the start of July) Nelson had to go.[/COLOR]

I'm not going to argue with you because we see things completely differently. You saw this team as a playoffs team.. I saw it as a work in progress that needed time. In TFC land patience is inheard of. The fact that people even think playoffs are possible with this team after what has happened this week is incredible. Instead of learning from history and other successful teams we make the same mistakes. Win now mentality and constantly firing our coaches. A recipe for disaster and were in the midst of that feast right now.

Keep believing that firing Nelson was the way to go. Enjoy the disarray on the field and the tactical, attacking and posession based hoofball.

[ag futbol]

How about a fucking card here or there?

[jloome]

Oduro is fucking useless. Speed and stupid hairdo. That's it.

I don't know who brought him in but whoever wanted him should be banished.

Whether it was Nelsen or bez or vanney.

Whoever it was is shitty at identifying what makes a good footballer.

He scored 14 goals last year as a striker. We play him as a winger. EDIT: But you're right he's too inconsistent to start.

[v00d00daddy]

People should not cheer for that oduro shit!!!!

Who cares if he's fast. He does nothing after that.

It doesn't help that he embellishes every single time he's fouled.

[jloome]

LOL, anyone else thing Nick Hagglund might make a monster target man forward?

[molenshtain]

Bekker's at least showed some interest

[v00d00daddy]

He scored 14 goals last year as a striker. We play him as a winger. EDIT: But you're right he's too inconsistent to start.

How did he score them. 50/50 balls and ran faster than a defender? Who cares. It helps nothing. It evolves to nothing.

When we rely on speed we rely on something that is easy to deal with and goes away over time with age.

When he loses a step as he ages he will literally become a Sunday afternoon beer league player.

[notthesun]

Keep believing that firing Nelson was the way to go. Enjoy the disarray on the field and the tactical, attacking and posession based hoofball.

Yeah if only we kept Nelsen we could have avoided this right... lol

[v00d00daddy]

Interesting if what vic rauter heard vanney say is true.

[pdubs]

Bekker's at least showed some interest

The midfield looks better with him beside Bradley. Def better than the Warner-Bradley combo.

[jloome]

How did he score them. 50/50 balls and ran faster than a defender? Who cares. It helps nothing. It evolves to nothing.

When we rely on speed we rely on something that is easy to deal with and goes away over time with age.

When he loses a step as he ages he will literally become a Sunday afternoon beer league player.

Scoring 14 goals evolves to nothing? Okay, you're not being logical dude. A goal doesnt' have to evolve to anything; if he can score 14 goals per season by beating a defender, maybe a few through balls to him as a striker would be healthy for our team. We haven't scored much lately.

[bigredone]

Yeah he would just have half the team hating him

Still better, but point understood. And what about our/ the fans mental health. The only reason I am still watching this game/season is because of this site. my first post in over a year as, to me, this site is now the only entertainment tfc provides. Thanks RPB.

[ag futbol]

The fact that Bekker can come pick up a ball and spray it around is opening up space for bradley and reducing the unions -previously singular - defensive focus.

I might like to see Wiedeman... never thought I'd say that, but he might be able to offer something.

[Lumpy]

Yeah if only we kept Nelsen we could have avoided this right... lol

I guess we will never know. Sure as hell know what we have now.

[jloome]

Still better, but point understood. And what about our/ the fans mental health. The only reason I am still watching this game/season is because of this site. my first post in over a year as, to me, this site is now the only entertainment tfc provides. Thanks RPB.

"Now"?

[v00d00daddy]

Scoring 14 goals evolves to nothing? Okay, you're not being logical dude. A goal doesnt' have to evolve to anything; if he can score 14 goals per season by beating a defender, maybe a few through balls to him as a striker would be healthy for our team. We haven't scored much lately.

It's fine if it's not the only thing you rely on. If the rest of the team is good it's fine. If the rest of the team is terrible it's useless.

[molenshtain]

best 20 minutes Bekker has played all season

[mowe]

Seriously Jackson you're never going to score that

[ag futbol]

Seems like they are literally learning as they go out there....

[jloome]

Bekker and Bradley combining well. Neither considering the defensive cover, though. The ball was on Bradley's side, so he's prescribed to move up. But Bekker was following the flow of the play; that's the problem with the tilt. It takes smart decisions, and as great a technical player as he is, positionally I think Bradley's lacking, too.

EDIT: although I guess that lack of discipline was on Bekker; he should have stayed back, let it evolve on Bradley's side, creeped up to the box once the ball had moved into the offensive area.

[jloome]

It's fine if it's not the only thing you rely on. If the rest of the team is good it's fine. If the rest of the team is terrible it's useless.

LOL, I get what you're saying man: "we'd sacrifice too much." I think he's better as an impact sub, myself. His close control isn't good enough to maintain possession and bring others into play, it's just the push and run every time, like Johann Smith. But he is dangerous around the goal. Make a good late striker.

[notthesun]

It's fine if it's not the only thing you rely on. If the rest of the team is good it's fine. If the rest of the team is terrible it's useless.

That's the thing though, on a good team guys like him are important pieces. I don't like when I see intense criticism for some players (e.g. Oduro, Warner, Jackson) who are clearly good enough for the league. They all have flaws but used correctly they can easily succeed in this league.

How many decent players have we seen come to TFC, be used incorrectly (or just limited by us being poor), and then go succeed somewhere else? Way too many to count.

Our problem, largely, is not our roster. It's coaching.

[azorean]

Was confident about chivas at home next week......but, this is shambles.

[ag futbol]

If you ever wanted a play to sum up why Oduro is a bad footballer, that was it.

Robot with no read of the game and very little skill.

[pdubs]

Oduro you bum. Wasted that cross.

[molenshtain]

Was confident about chivas at home next week......but, this is shambles.

realistically, if we can build on this second half, we're still better than Chivas. They really have nothing at this point.

[mowe]

Can we at least score a fucking goal

[MikeM]

Everything is wrong with these tactics! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

ST-ST





LM-CM-CM-RM











LB-CB-CB-RB

What am I watching?

[jloome]

realistically, if we can build on this second half, we're still better than Chivas. They really have nothing at this point.

They have Cubo Torres, Reo-Coker, Bocanegra on his last season, several weapons. Don't kid yourself the way we're playing now.

[pdubs]

^Yep. Same way Nelson had us. Just too flat. Even if we act more aggressive and send more forward it is all hoof.

Really like to see a 4-3-3 formation.

[molenshtain]

They have Cubo Torres, Reo-Coker, Bocanegra on his last season, several weapons. Don't kid yourself the way we're playing now.


Reo-coker was demoted to back up RB he was that bad in VC. Cubo is streaky, Boca is retiring. very few weapons if you ask me.

[ag futbol]

Well at this rate we might get the experienced coach we always wanted...

[pdubs]

Can't say Bradley is lacking effort. Just charging forward. Our attackers just ball watch. No movement.

[jloome]

What's going on? In the last thirty minutes, I think the players have been avoiding passing to Bradley; and twice now he's charged up the pitch and ignored them all until stripped. What the hell?

EDIT: OKAY never mind, I'm just being paranoid.

[azorean]

[QUOTE=molenshtain;playistically, if we can build on this second half, we're still better than Chivas. They really have nothing at this point.[/QUOTE]

Only problem is we play chicago on the road next week, another loss, chivas is the week after.

[ag futbol]

Ryan Nelsen's coaching of the movement up top is still hurting this team. Defensively we were okay but atttack wise I've seen better movement from strikers on u12 teams.

[pdubs]

3 posts hit today ahaha

[v00d00daddy]

^Yep. Same way Nelson had us. Just too flat. Even if we act more aggressive and send more forward it is all hoof.

Really like to see a 4-3-3 formation.

Well if vic rauter really heard vanney acost hagglund for hoofing the ball maybe he wants it but just can't get it with the players he has.

[azorean]

Ryan Nelsen's coaching of the movement up top is still hurting this team. Defensively we were okay but atttack wise I've seen better movement from strikers on u12 teams.

Next year, let's start from scratch, AGAIN.

[v00d00daddy]

Ok gents. Here is a simple way of figuring out if things are good or bad based on how we see them.

Was Bradley's free kick good or bad?

To me:

It's garbage. And him hitting the cross bar on the left foot (while it's an exhibition of real talent) makes it even worse because it's a mask that lies to people.

He shouldn't have been taking it to begin with. He shot the ball in the middle of wall...height and width. Terrible. Bradley has taken soooooo many like that this year. Complete shit.

Gilberto took a better one earlier in the game. He should have taken it.

But because he hit the bar on a rebound he created by taking a shit shot to begin with, people will see it as a positive.

It's not. In my opinon.

The masks cover why we are shit.

We still a playoff team?

Games in hand...gone. Point lead...gone.

[mowe]

In case anyone had any doubts, we're still TFC.

[Lumpy]

Booing again this week from the fans. Same old.

[pdubs]

Next year, let's start from scratch, AGAIN.

No our core is good. Upgrade the CBs. New DP once Defoe goes. AND get an experienced coach starting since last Saturday. We deserve and should demand it.

[jloome]

We seriously need a new tactical approach, a new coach, a new DP AM, a new... ah... hell.

[ag futbol]

Yeah, this is like back to vintage TFC where we say "well it was better than last game, but still miles away from getting the win."

So much for playing harder under the new coach... they look just as lazy as they did before we got rid of the novice.

[v00d00daddy]

Booing again this week from the fans. Same old.

Booing at the end of a game is not enough. Hasn't been for seasons.

[ag futbol]

No our core is good. Upgrade the CBs. New DP once Defoe goes. AND get an experienced coach starting since last Saturday. We deserve and should demand it.
What's our core exactly? Osorio is an asset, Henry/Bednik/Creavalle are serviceable, Braldey is good.. but otherwise, we need to replace players all over the field.

[v00d00daddy]

No our core is good. Upgrade the CBs. New DP once Defoe goes. AND get an experienced coach starting since last Saturday. We deserve and should demand it.

So what is our core?

Gilberto and Bradley and.............

I'd say Osorio is the only bright future player and he isn't played right. The rest could come or go.

[azorean]

No our core is good. Upgrade the CBs. New DP once Defoe goes. AND get an experienced coach starting since last Saturday. We deserve and should demand it.


That's alot of upgrades, hence starting from scratch practically, what did you see today?

[MikeM]

You can't tell who is a good player when the system makes everyone look bad.

[ag futbol]

You can't tell who is a good player when the system makes everyone look bad.
Disagree. We're now seeing in clear vision what was often hidden when we played like a bottom feeder staving on relegation hiding in our own 18 yard box.

These guys can stand on their stations when we play defensively and don't ever commit to going forward but they can't connect simple passes or make obvious runs into space. That was never going to be good enough regardless of what system we played. Most of our success this year was based on one hot striker who walked out on the team, end of.

[Marc"2L"]

Holy hell, this team.

My god what did we collectively do in our past lives.

[Yohan]

You can't tell who is a good player when the system makes everyone look bad.
it's partly what players the team has, but Vanney didn't get the tactics right again. another rookie coach in Jim Curtin outmaneuvered him.

if you know your back 4 sucks, you have to protect it. or go all balls deep offensive game. nobody was organizing shit on defence again. Orr is right back by trade, and he isn't doing good enough job as CB organizing. so if you have a weak back 4, you have to shield it, and you do this by either play 2 DMs and play on the counter or put your best DM, Bradley. Vanney did neither. no wonder TFC defence looked like shambles. changing formation is going to jack shit if you don't have a strong defence to work off as a foundation (unless you're going for a 4-3 win like Chile)

[azorean]

Disagree. We're now seeing in clear vision what was often hidden when we played like a bottom feeder staving on relegation hiding in our own 18 yard box.

These guys can stand on their stations when we play defensively and don't ever commit to going forward but they can't connect simple passes or make obvious runs into space. That was never going to be good enough regardless of what system we played. Most of our success this year was based on one hot striker who walked out on the team, end of.

Even that one hot striker is given too much credit, makes it 7 or 8 legit goals, minus pks,
2 in the first game by the way......

[pdubs]

Our core is

Bendik (serviceable MLS keeper)
Hagglund, Henry,Bloom,Morrow,Crevalle -Missing 1,2 MLS starting CBs. Atleast one.
Bradley, Lovitz (been impressed with him), Osorio, ----->thought when Oduro/Jackson were picked up they were MLS experienced players. I say keep one, drop the other and replace.
Gilberto, Moore, Dike, Hamilton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Hamilton_(soccer)) (too soon but in the pipe)

So LB depth, 1-2 CB, DP midfielder

I think saying it is all from scratch is very harsh. We knew we needed another CB at the start of the year. Clearly we need a backup LB too.

edit- and an experienced manager not married to a flat 4-4-2

[molenshtain]

Lovitz, Creavalle,Henry, Hagglund, Morrow, Bendik, Roberts, Bradley, Osorio, Gilberto, Moore are probably all good enough to play roles on good teams. That's a pretty fine core in and of itself.

Warner, Bekker, Jackson, Oduro, Bloom Dike still need to make a case as to how they can consistently contribute.

Orr, Weideman Morgan, De Ro, and Caldwell and Defoe will unlikely be here next year.

What we need is two new wingers, A new DP AM to replace defoe, and a sure fire "fuck you I'm the best CB in the league" type player at the back. Depth isn't so much an issue for us, it's having difference makers throughout the starting lineup. right now we have Bradley and Gilberto who can make something happen relatively consistently, and not much else after that. if you look at Philly today, they had Le Toux, Casey, Noguiera, Maidana, all running circles around our listless midfield. then they brought on danny cruz. we have so few skilled players.

and we need to stop playing 4-4-2. just stop. We don't have the players for it.

Edit: I see pdubs and I think alike

[ag futbol]

Our core is

Bendik (serviceable MLS keeper)
Hagglund, Henry,Bloom,Morrow,Crevalle -Missing 1,2 MLS starting CBs. Atleast one.
Bradley, Lovitz (been impressed with him), Osorio, ----->thought when Oduro/Jackson were picked up they were MLS experienced players. I say keep one, drop the other and replace.
Gilberto, Moore, Dike, Hamilton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Hamilton_(soccer)) (too soon but in the pipe)

So LB depth, 1-2 CB, DP midfielder

I think saying it is all from scratch is very harsh. We knew we needed another CB at the start of the year. Clearly we need a backup LB too.
I think this is pretty optimistic. If we took that core and went player-for-player with any of the top 10 teams in the league would we come out favourably?

No way Dike can be on that list either. He's one injury away from the end of a career and rarely stays healthy.

[MG42]

The fundamentals just don't seem to be there, never have really.

[gracos]

Same old TFC even if we had the best player in the world we would still find ways to lose it all

[notthesun]

Another game in which we got dominated, but won overall possession clearly (58-42 in our favour).

Could there be any more obvious sign we need a coach who knows what he's doing...

[azorean]

I think this is pretty optimistiI . If we took that core and went player-for-player with any of the top 10 teams in the league would we come out favourably?

No way Dike can be on that list either. He's one injury away from the end of a career and rarely stays healthy.


Yeah, but if that Dike kid can stay healthy, lookout.....i rate him. They are making a big deal about zardes in LA , Dike is better.

[MikeM]

Disagree. We're now seeing in clear vision what was often hidden when we played like a bottom feeder staving on relegation hiding in our own 18 yard box.

These guys can stand on their stations when we play defensively and don't ever commit to going forward but they can't connect simple passes or make obvious runs into space. That was never going to be good enough regardless of what system we played. Most of our success this year was based on one hot striker who walked out on the team, end of.

Why is it always that at TFC we can't connect simple passes it seems but when players move to other teams suddenly they can?

We play a flat 4 back line at all times. In attack, in defence. The gap between our midfield and defence is sometimes 20 yards. I can't remember seeing a professional team exhibit these characteristics until the creation of TFC. Certainly not in Europe. Maybe in South America where they don't care about tactics as much but I don't actually remember seeing it.

I see it in youth house league matches but those kids aren't getting paid to stand around like idiots so they don't count.

"Hey Henry, you're going to play CB today. The other team's attackers are going to have a 20 yard cushion between you and your midfield so that they can comfortably get on the ball, turn and run at you. Please stop them every time. If you try to pressure them so that they can't get on the ball and turn, you will not have any back pressure from your teammates to help you. When you get the ball your fullbacks will not push up. They will literally stand perfectly square to you so that they take themselves out of the build-up. Don't pass to them. We would like you to find one of the two strikers standing beside each other 40 yards down field. We don't have binoculars for you, that's why we decided to put two strikers beside each other so you can improve your chances that way. Bradley will sometimes come for the ball, the other guy beside him won't. So ya, good luck."

"Henry sucks."

[ag futbol]

Another game in which we got dominated, but won overall possession clearly (58-42 in our favour).

Could there be any more obvious sign we need a coach who knows what he's doing...
I don't know if Vanney understands the game but I'm not interested in taking enough time to figure it out.

We just need an experienced, winning, coach here period. I'll live and die by that and give him two years minimum to get it right, maybe three.

[OgtheDim]

Need a DM, and a CD. Get that for next season and we'll compete at this time of the season.

Bradley did pretty good in the second half when he went bombing forward. Something to build around with him and Gilberto.

This season's done. Defence ain't getting better.

[pdubs]

I think this is pretty optimistic. If we took that core and went player-for-player with any of the top 10 teams in the league would we come out favourably?

No way Dike can be on that list either. He's one injury away from the end of a career and rarely stays healthy.

I think we would. I must stress tho if we have people at the helm that have no idea what they are doing then it is pointless to compare. I would also add Warner to the list. Granted the situation we have him in right now isn't working but he is typical MLS quality. Flat 4-4-2 with Bradley and Warner side by side is no good.

I still say we have the good core. Need need a proper manager to set us up for success. Maybe the question isn't to compare player for player against top teams in the league. Maybe ask how would Arena, Kreis, Porter ect handle this team. I think we have quality.

[ag futbol]

Why is it always that at TFC we can't connect simple passes it seems but when players move to other teams suddenly they can?

We play a flat 4 back line at all times. In attack, in defence. The gap between our midfield and defence is sometimes 20 yards. I can't remember seeing a professional team exhibit these characteristics until the creation of TFC. Certainly not in Europe. Maybe in South America where they don't care about tactics as much but I don't actually remember seeing it.

I see it in youth house league matches but those kids aren't getting paid to stand around like idiots so they don't count.

"Hey Henry, you're going to play CB today. The other team's attackers are going to have a 20 yard cushion between you and your midfield so that they can comfortably get on the ball, turn and run at you. Please stop them every time. If you try to pressure them so that they can't get on the ball and turn, you will not have any back pressure from your teammates to help you. When you get the ball your fullbacks will not push up. They will literally stand perfectly square to you so that they take themselves out of the build-up. Don't pass to them. We would like you to find one of the two strikers standing beside each other 40 yards down field. We don't have binoculars for you, that's why we decided to put two strikers beside each other so you can improve your chances that way. Bradley will sometimes come for the ball, the other guy beside him won't. So ya, good luck."

"Henry sucks."
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but lets remember a lot of the players TFC dumps amount to nothing as well. We can all point to Cronin, Silva, and a few other guys, but we've had more than our share of junk.

I'll use Oduro as the easy example: He's absolutely taking away from the performance of the team. He does not jump into space or provide easy passing options. He plays linearly on the touch line and runs up and down like a headless chicken, rarely tracking back defensively. He threw several balls into the central midfielders today that were absolute hospital passes where we coughed up the ball and PU immediately hit back on the counter attack. He's an absolute disaster. If he plays better for another team, it's because they've got more technically sound players around him than we do who can collectively think for him. But as it stands, he sucks and hurts the performance of the guys playing in the middle.

[ag futbol]

Need a DM, and a CD. Get that for next season and we'll compete at this time of the season.

Bradley did pretty good in the second half when he went bombing forward. Something to build around with him and Gilberto.

This season's done. Defence ain't getting better.
Yep.

DM, CD: two wingers who are speedy enough to cut inside but smart enough on the ball to open up space. I'd also look at upgrading the striker spot since we look toothless when either Gilberto or previously Defoe are not playing.

[MikeM]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but lets remember a lot of the players TFC dumps amount to nothing as well. We can all point to Cronin, Silva, and a few other guys, but we've had more than our share of junk.

I'll use Oduro as the easy example: He's absolutely taking away from the performance of the team. He does not jump into space or provide easy passing options. He plays linearly on the touch line and runs up and down like a headless chicken, rarely tracking back defensively. He threw several balls into the central midfielders today that were absolute hospital passes where we coughed up the ball and PU immediately hit back on the counter attack. He's an absolute disaster. If he plays better for another team, it's because they've got more technically sound players around him than we do who can collectively think for him. But as it stands, he sucks and hurts the performance of the guys playing in the middle.

If he plays better for another team it's because he won't be used in a 4-4-2. No one on this team right now has more than 1 or 2 options when they have the ball. How can we expect someone like Oduro to do anything in these situations? Yes, he's limited. But he would look better in a 4-3-3 where he does not have to track back as much, he has more space to run towards goal (because you're taking a striker out from front of goal), and he has more passing options (hopefully even some combinations with his fullback).

With players like Oduro, you have to help them think as little as possible. They need pre-designed movements and constant options and sometimes they can be useful.

It's possible all these players are shit but I'd like to see them in a proper team construct before I start dismantling another TFC roster.

[ag futbol]

If he plays better for another team it's because he won't be used in a 4-4-2. No one on this team right now has more than 1 or 2 options when they have the ball. How can we expect someone like Oduro to do anything in these situations? Yes, he's limited. But he would look better in a 4-3-3 where he does not have to track back as much, he has more space to run towards goal (because you're taking a striker out from front of goal), and he has more passing options (hopefully even some combinations with his fullback).

With players like Oduro, you have to help them think as little as possible. They need pre-designed movements and constant options and sometimes they can be useful.

It's possible all these players are shit but I'd like to see them in a proper team construct before I start dismantling another TFC roster.
It's a bridge too far for him to expect him to be useful in a 4-3-3. He's a pure 4-4-2 player. He pounds the channel and hits on the counter attack, that's about it.

He will have to track back in a 4-3-3 and be very adept positionally. It pretty much always defends 4-5-1 and two way play from your wide players is critical. So much of that formation being successful relies on the interchanging of positions of your front three players. He doesn't have a hope of catching on to something like that. Also doesn't have the vision to connect the passes to his teammates. I hold out hope that someone like Jackson could figure it out or that Warner starts getting more in tune with the play, but not Oduro. He won't be useful in that system.

[Marc"2L"]

I'm too broken to offer anything to this board anymore. The highs aren't really highs anymore, and the lows are bottomless. I really don't know how much longer this is sustainable. I mean, the stadium expansion seems like the worst waste of money at this point, no?

What happens if the year it was supposed to be different isn't?

[billyfly]

My civic pride isn't tied to our sports teams (repeat until true)

[nonc]

Lieweke's career getting more tarnished by the day, he is ultimately responsible for this hard flop with his inexperienced FIFA GM and newb coaches. But he will be gone soon so doesn't give a fuck. It's naive to think TFC is a few players away from breaking through when our president, GM, and coaching positions are either a carousel and/or inadequately filled. The only continuity is disease, stupidity, and ego-maniacs.

[notthesun]

Yep.

DM, CD: two wingers who are speedy enough to cut inside but smart enough on the ball to open up space. I'd also look at upgrading the striker spot since we look toothless when either Gilberto or previously Defoe are not playing.

The worst part, as others have mentioned, is our need for a starting CB was glaringly obvious coming into the season. It hadn't bitten us too hard but you knew it would eventually. Unbelievable that Nelsen and Bez did not recognize the fact we'd need someone new back there.

[Yohan]

The worst part, as others have mentioned, is our need for a starting CB was glaringly obvious coming into the season. It hadn't bitten us too hard but you knew it would eventually. Unbelievable that Nelsen and Bez did not recognize the fact we'd need someone new back there.
who'd have thought that a healthy Caldwell was key to our season (other than me, lol)

[OgtheDim]

Been saying it since the loss in Salt Lake. Bez didn't seem to have a plan b when the league wouldn't let us keep Laba. Tried with Warner but he's not a DM. We did better against the press today but still not good enough for this season to get turned around.

The team will talk about playoffs

[gate7]

is it the coach's fault?…..or the ones who chose them. I'm beginning to wonder if the team would play the same without a manager whatsoever

[gate7]

Been saying it since the loss in Salt Lake. Bez didn't seem to have a plan b when the league wouldn't let us keep Laba. Tried with Warner but he's not a DM. We did better against the press today but still not good enough for this season to get turned around.

The team will talk about playoffs


valid point re: plan B

[azorean]

QUOTE=Yohan;1693741]who'd have thought that a healthy Caldwell was key to our season (other than me, lol)[/QUOTE]

Dont't get smug, Caldwell and his flaililng arms ain't the answer.guy is overpaid for what he brings.

[Loyal]

Was able to listen to the radio broadcast from a seat just under the press box - good view of the formations.

On one counter attack by the Union we were out numbered 4 x 3 and as Dan Donlevy pointed out ALL FOUR MIDFIELDERS for TFC were actually "walking back" into our zone

Add to that the body language was extremely poor throughout - again.

This team does not believe in itself right now and lacks a leader on the field

It is also very easy to "fall in love" and over rate our own players

We have an over abundance of players with "athletic looking" bodies that do nothing!

A Broadway casting scout would have a field day filling spots for The Wizard of Oz as Henry, Jackson and Orduro sing "If I only had a brain"!

[OgtheDim]

That was the counter attack after Bradley went box to box and then somebody coughed up the ball. Bradley I can forgive for not getting back. Bekker and oduro, not so much.

[Oldtimer]

Let's face facts: for whatever reason, this team has given up on the season.

[OgtheDim]

More like they have gotten used to giving up goals. Orr seems to see the writing on the wall and is so frustrated at this not working out he is reacting in anger every time he screws up. That having been said, Orr still passes the ball better than Hagglund or Henry.

[Soccerpro]

The team wasn't bad until the in season trades. How many games have we won with Bradley and Warner as the CM pairing?

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

My civic pride isn't tied to our sports teams (repeat until true)

Luckily we have that fantastic mayor...

[West220Side]

Holy hell, this team.

My god what did we collectively do in our past lives.

This sums it up. What do we have to do as an organization to catch a break? We've f***** up so many times over the year, from front office to coaching to players on the field (I'm looking at you Maxim Usanov) but seriously this year should have (still can be) our year! What the F*** did we do to deserve this, boys?

Sure we're a few pieces short on the pitch, and a lot of pieces short on the coaching bench but what in the hell. We should have a team competitive with the likes of Seattle, we have a team as strong as Sporting Kansas City (minus the chemistry) why can't we just pull it together ! I can't stand much more of this bullsh***

[molenshtain]

The team wasn't bad until the in season trades. How many games have we won with Bradley and Warner as the CM pairing?

you're delusional if you think adding Warner, Moore, Creavalle and Oduro was bad for the team. They aren't great, but they were better than what we had before.

[Yohan]

QUOTE=Yohan;1693741]who'd have thought that a healthy Caldwell was key to our season (other than me, lol)

Dont't get smug, Caldwell and his flaililng arms ain't the answer.guy is overpaid for what he brings.[/QUOTE]
maybe not. but he does organize the defence better than 2 kids running around with their heads cut off at CB

[Soccerpro]

you're delusional if you think adding Warner, Moore, Creavalle and Oduro was bad for the team. They aren't great, but they were better than what we had before.

So why we were better before? Defoe and Caldwell going down is a big part of it, no doubt. But what creativity do we seem to have now? How is no one vs ever open when we have the ball?

[azorean]

Dont get smug, Caldwell and his flaililng arms ain't the answer.guy is overpaid for what he brings.
maybe not. but he does organize the defence better than 2 kids running around with their heads cut off at CB[/QUOTE]

Granted, still overpaid though and we should be looking to replace him.

[molenshtain]

So why we were better before? Defoe and Caldwell going down is a big part of it, no doubt. But what creativity do we seem to have now? How is no one vs ever open when we have the ball?

coaching.

Moore creavalle and Warner, while probably overused, are better than the alternatives. They're proper depth options, of which we had very little before.


Oduro, while mostly shit most of the time, is still undeniably better than Rey.

[Canary10]

Firing the coach with 10 games left was lunacy. Bez needs to wear that. Hope we don't see him back next year.

[ag futbol]

The worst part, as others have mentioned, is our need for a starting CB was glaringly obvious coming into the season. It hadn't bitten us too hard but you knew it would eventually. Unbelievable that Nelsen and Bez did not recognize the fact we'd need someone new back there.
In slight defence of this: Hagglund and Orr had a few games early season where they looked as good as Caldwell and Henry. But overall, I agree it was obvious from the start.

Same with a defensive mid. Bradley Osorio was an odd pairing and Warner just doesn't cut it in there as a starter.

[Gilberto9]

I know there's still many games left, but it doesn't look like we're going to make the playoffs. You can tell from the last few games that this squad doesn't have the hunger of a team in a playoff race. We are giving up on the season, yet we still hold a playoff spot. The intensity wasn't there when we needed it today in the final stages.

De Rosario put a great display on today, put in a 100% effort. The only other player I saw that from today was Hagguland. Not sure how Bradley was MOTM.

The only way we pull some results from here on out is with a Osorio-Bradley CM partnership and Caldwell commanding the backline.

[ag futbol]

If the backline wasn't so horribly weak I might ask if Creavalle is up for doing some sort of job in midfield. I think he's a player, but not sure what his best use on this team is as of yet.

[BBLaw]

Firing the coach with 10 games left was lunacy. Bez needs to wear that. Hope we don't see him back next year.

Hopefully he won't return. He can go back to doing calculus or whatever the hell he was doing at the MLS head office that somehow qualified him to run a club.

[Lumpy]

I know there's still many games left, but it doesn't look like we're going to make the playoffs. You can tell from the last few games that this squad doesn't have the hunger of a team in a playoff race. We are giving up on the season, yet we still hold a playoff spot. The intensity wasn't there when we needed it today in the final stages.

De Rosario put a great display on today, put in a 100% effort. The only other player I saw that from today was Hagguland. Not sure how Bradley was MOTM.

The only way we pull some results from here on out is with a Osorio-Bradley CM partnership and Caldwell commanding the backline.

Dero was on the field for 70 minutes I guess.
Dero Match Stats

Minutes Played
70


Goals
0


Assists
0


Shots
0


Shots On Target
0


Corners
0


Offsides
0


Fouls
0


Fouls Suffered
0

[Qman]

this season is done.
We are losing all these 6-pointers. Its like were in quicksand and most of the remain games are 6-pointers.

Unless Defoe really wants to comeback and weave is magic ... were toast.

[gate7]

Hopefully he won't return. He can go back to doing calculus or whatever the hell he was doing at the MLS head office that somehow qualified him to run a club.


His qualifications were.."a specialist" of MLS rules and procedures on salary cap and player contracts……so basically when we couldn't keep Laba his qualifications no longer served us…….other than his calculus

[Hamilton_Red]

Sad day when understanding MLS' idiotic rules are considered more important than organizing a football team.

[OgtheDim]

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/806536/LiveStatistics/USA-Major-League-Soccer-2014-Toronto-FC-Philadelphia-Union

FWIW

[jloome]

Here's Vanney on the game and what they're working on. I rather like his comments.

http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2014/09/06/greg-vanney-september-6-2014

[OgtheDim]

That was the most cogent sounding tactical discussion from an TFC coach in a looooong time.

[jazzy]

At least DeRo is having a pretty good game. Old man still has some spunk in his junk.

best man on the field...he literally gave it his all ....on the wing shocked me with his speed and Bradley give and go's ......Nelson's huge mistake ignoring talent sitting there on the bench . he could have always been useful at least as a sub . Class act today and someone giving it his all yet keeping his head in the game . Thats the main problem we have some dumbass (soccer wise) players .

[jazzy]

I think the Red Patch Boys should take serious consideration of an off-season protest for this club never hiring an experienced manager. Ever. It's time for the one remaining area that has never been addressed to be addressed.

I say it is coming ...it has to, and will it be Bradley if his son stays?