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View Full Version : This Company MLSE does not deserve this team Or its Supporters.



inheavensince07
09-01-2014, 08:27 AM
Every single year except the first and 2014 I have been embarrassed by this organization .. They have been a complete and utter disaster .. For the first time in 7 years I started getting back into the mind set that they have HOPE to be a team to be proud of ..

Bottom line the 3 headed Monster that owns this team is the Problem.. I even hate to say it but the RPB can and have been fooled by this beast over and over again. The team is a disgrace just like it was 3 and 4 and 5 years ago .. drama after dram after drama ..

As for the support til I die stuff I find that ridiculous and immature to a degree .. It is in fact only a shitty soccer team . There really should be a friggin revolt against this company and team ..

I am born and raised Toronto and as a long time leaf fan (no longer ) I woke up and said fook that .. Hit this team were it HURTS in the pocket book .

Many RPB have been on here since inception , I know you all by screen name etc (not personally ) but I feel that many are either brainwashed or short sighted .. I get enjoying the game day with friends etc .. BUT this is a time to stop this madness . Stop with the seasons tickets and padding the coffers ..
I have had seasons since day 1 and to lead the charge I am dropping the two tics and saying gbye forever .. I can always come by a game day tic but as for giving them my interest money F that ...

denime
09-01-2014, 08:35 AM
I understand your frustration and your rant thread/post,but coming to RPB site and call RPB brainwashed or short sighted is very short sighted from you.
You won't get RPB dropping their ST when you call them out of being brainwashed or short sighted,choose your wording better and some people might follow your idea.

inheavensince07
09-01-2014, 08:41 AM
I understand your frustration and your rant thread/post,but coming to RPB site and call RPB brainwashed or short sighted is very short sighted from you.
You won't get RPB dropping their ST when you call them out of being brainwashed or short sighted,choose your wording better and some people might follow your idea.


You are a 100 % right .. I did not mean it to be insulting but I think it was .. I will re think my wording and thoughts on the matter .. The RPB are passionate and sometimes passion clouds judgement .. me included

v00d00daddy
09-01-2014, 09:03 AM
Every single year except the first and 2014 I have been embarrassed by this organization .. They have been a complete and utter disaster .. For the first time in 7 years I started getting back into the mind set that they have HOPE to be a team to be proud of ..

Bottom line the 3 headed Monster that owns this team is the Problem.. I even hate to say it but the RPB can and have been fooled by this beast over and over again. The team is a disgrace just like it was 3 and 4 and 5 years ago .. drama after dram after drama ..

As for the support til I die stuff I find that ridiculous and immature to a degree .. It is in fact only a shitty soccer team . There really should be a friggin revolt against this company and team ..

I am born and raised Toronto and as a long time leaf fan (no longer ) I woke up and said fook that .. Hit this team were it HURTS in the pocket book .

Many RPB have been on here since inception , I know you all by screen name etc (not personally ) but I feel that many are either brainwashed or short sighted .. I get enjoying the game day with friends etc .. BUT this is a time to stop this madness . Stop with the seasons tickets and padding the coffers ..
I have had seasons since day 1 and to lead the charge I am dropping the two tics and saying gbye forever .. I can always come by a game day tic but as for giving them my interest money F that ...

I agree with Denime….doesn't go well when you tell people what to do. I was a day one SSH and gave it up a couple of years ago. I didn't ask others to do it because, like you mentioned, going to games to support your team with friends is an almost impossible thing to ask people to walk away from.

That being said, I've asked and suggested to make beliefs and anger known to the club in different ways and even those were shit on and I was told I wasn't a "supporter".

It's a hard situation here. I too think that the fans of this club are part of the problem and deserve a (much smaller) part of the blame. I too think that the club should have been told that their ticket price reductions and signings of players that would distract us, just doesn't work. It shouldn't let us forget that the club has failed to come up with a plan that would make us successful and stick with it.

Like the other MLSE owned clubs…TFC are more about keeping the seats filled than they are about putting out a successful team. Even if that means that keeping the seats filled (by making the supporters happy) won't turn in to winning on the field.

It's so frustrating….especially when I'm so passionate and want to support my hometowns pro footballing team and I feel like they've been fucked up almost every single day. The most frustrating thing to me was that they started a plan that I loved and have since thrown it away and gone back to thinking like season 1.

And now we're back to season 1 land.

ensco
09-01-2014, 09:04 AM
Who exactly are you mad at?

There is no "MLSE". It is a convenient fiction.

The teams were a division of a pension fund, now they're a leveraged joint venture of the two TV/internet monopolies.

v00d00daddy
09-01-2014, 09:29 AM
Who exactly are you mad at?

There is no "MLSE". It is a convenient fiction.

The teams were a division of a pension fund, now they're a leveraged joint venture of the two TV/internet monopolies.

Hahaha. Ok ok. I know very little about the business make up of all this stuff. I know it's Rogers v. Bell now and I get that it's tv ratings/blue jays v argos and a bunch of other stuff. I don't know the details and wouldn't get them well if I did.

What I'm mad at is that they care more about making people happy than they do about putting out a successful team that can grow things in the future with a goal of improving the game in this country.

It's all about money.

MightyDM
09-01-2014, 09:33 AM
TFC should be community owned like Barcelona. (or Saskatchewan Roughriders).

inheavensince07
09-01-2014, 09:35 AM
Hahaha. Ok ok. I know very little about the business make up of all this stuff. I know it's Rogers v. Bell now and I get that it's tv ratings/blue jays v argos and a bunch of other stuff. I don't know the details and wouldn't get them well if I did.

What I'm mad at is that they care more about making people happy than they do about putting out a successful team that can grow things in the future with a goal of improving the game in this country.

It's all about money.



ding ding ding ding .... business is business but sport is also sport

v00d00daddy
09-01-2014, 09:53 AM
TFC should be community owned like Barcelona. (or Saskatchewan Roughriders).

I love the idea of this but only if the ENTIRE community was given a voice.

The same "community" has been in charge of football in this country for decades. Little blips here and there but the overall sentiment has remained. TFC since day 1. When they changed it was for a short time and they dropped it, forgot about it, and went back to old, dead thinking right away. All to appease the "community".

Jack
09-01-2014, 10:45 AM
What I'm mad at is that they care more about making people happy than they do about putting out a successful team that can grow things in the future with a goal of improving the game in this country.

It's all about money.

I'll preface by saying they I'm not calling you out. On forums, text sometimes can't convey tone, so that's my intent with this caveat. I respect many of your opinions and your passion for TFC, but what you say here seems illogical and a bit self-contradictory, so please help me understand.

If they want to make people happy, doesn't winning accomplish that goal? I think it's safe to say that there has been a massive amount of venom directed at this organization from the supporters precisely due to the lack of success.

It's all about the money for all of these teams in all sports these days. The traditions of clubs winning for pride of membership or pride of region/city has long been supplanted by the goal of making more money and success is mostly measured in terms of financial rewards. MLS measures its success by being financially viable and earning more popularity which drives sponsorship and TV revenue.

Inheavensince07 is right insomuch as it's only going to really hurt them if people stop buying, but we can still put pressure in them in other ways. Unfortunately, we are left in the position of this or nothing for our home team.

What I've seen from the ownership of the MLSE teams, whether a pension fund asset or belonging to two competing media empires, is that they don't seem to think the extra popularity and earning power of champions are worth the effort, or they are just not that interested. After all, if their sports properties are generating revenues to match their targets and projections, then they don't need to really change anything. They want to win, of course, but that isn't a measure of success for them. Success=making more money that last year.

Fort York Redcoat
09-01-2014, 11:08 AM
TFC should be community owned like Barcelona. (or Saskatchewan Roughriders).

Every team should be. What proof do you have that this community is ready, though? It would be absolutely shambolic in this particular community.

MightyDM
09-01-2014, 11:12 AM
I posted this in the other thread. Also relevant here:

After sleeping on it, I am quite worried about this whole series of events, which have the potential to seriously destabilize this club. Nelsen had considerable strengths that we will no longer have as an organization with him and Tim L gone, particularly his reputation and the respect people had for him in the world of soccer. An agent could say to a player, "do you want to be part of what Ryan Nelsen is building in Toronto" and they would know what the agent meant. From all reports, his reputation was very positive , as it should be for someone who captained a country with the population of Toronto to an undefeated world cup. No agent is going to say to any player anywhere in the world, even in Montreal and Columbus, "do you want to be part of what Tim Bezbechenko is building?"

We are going to miss his player evaluation skills, which we collectively seem to be taking for granted. Compare the acquisitions on his watch to those on the watch of the other permanent head coaches and he sacks up very, very well, particularly if you judge him post Payne as it seems that's when he has had the most influence.

We are going to miss the Manager's authority in the locker room. if the rumours are true that Bradley disagreed with his tactics, then these actions have just disempowered the manager and empowered the players. That can only end badly (see, United, Manchester). Bradley had the right, as captain, to raise these issues with him but ultimately had to play whatever Nelsen decided, with professionalism and enthusiasm. If he couldn't accept it, he needed to be sat down for a game of two, perhaps with the cover story about recovering from the world cup. Once the position of Manager loses authority, a club is in for a lot of trouble.

We are now in the position of needing shrewd scouting in South America and a producing academy to build for the future. While this may be a good model, if that is where we are going why get rid of Payne - and Laba and Urruti?

I hope Greg Vanney has immediate success, the kind of success that people have predicted because of his work at the RSL and LAG academies. If he doesn't, we are in trouble. At a minimum, we will need a TFC President with heft and respect. And competence. Which sounds a lot like rebuilding. Again.

MightyDM
09-01-2014, 11:16 AM
Every team should be. What proof do you have that this community is ready, though? It would be absolutely shambolic in this particular community.

What proof do you have that being owned by MLSE isn't shambolic?

Leedsoronto
09-01-2014, 11:32 AM
Relax
It's footy, an entertainment business and boy are we all entertained, now let's also play some footy too and get back to winning.

Beach_Red
09-01-2014, 11:38 AM
Who exactly are you mad at?

There is no "MLSE". It is a convenient fiction.

The teams were a division of a pension fund, now they're a leveraged joint venture of the two TV/internet monopolies.

Exactly why the NFL doesn't allow corporate ownership.

I guess someone could run a Kickstarter campaign to buy TFC, certainly MLSE would look at all offers.

Alonso
09-01-2014, 11:46 AM
I'll preface by saying they I'm not calling you out. On forums, text sometimes can't convey tone, so that's my intent with this caveat. I respect many of your opinions and your passion for TFC, but what you say here seems illogical and a bit self-contradictory, so please help me understand.

If they want to make people happy, doesn't winning accomplish that goal? I think it's safe to say that there has been a massive amount of venom directed at this organization from the supporters precisely due to the lack of success.

It's all about the money for all of these teams in all sports these days. The traditions of clubs winning for pride of membership or pride of region/city has long been supplanted by the goal of making more money and success is mostly measured in terms of financial rewards. MLS measures its success by being financially viable and earning more popularity which drives sponsorship and TV revenue.

Inheavensince07 is right insomuch as it's only going to really hurt them if people stop buying, but we can still put pressure in them in other ways. Unfortunately, we are left in the position of this or nothing for our home team.

What I've seen from the ownership of the MLSE teams, whether a pension fund asset or belonging to two competing media empires, is that they don't seem to think the extra popularity and earning power of champions are worth the effort, or they are just not that interested. After all, if their sports properties are generating revenues to match their targets and projections, then they don't need to really change anything. They want to win, of course, but that isn't a measure of success for them. Success=making more money that last year.


To me this is the problem right here.

Success = winning year over year

Winning year over year = making more money year over year

To me they are short sighted in their approach, if they build a dynasty with their sports properties, they would reap many more rewards including more money.


Obviously there are going to be rough years, but 8 in row, vs 3 or 4 great years followed by 1 bad, is the difference I am talking about here. Many sports clubs manage to do this relatively consistently. But not MLSE owned teams, I realize ownership has changed but the circus apparently continues. Public perception is everything, and these guys still look like they couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.

Consistently performing well for a sports team will ultimately maximize revenue.

MLSE is in trouble if they continue to look foolish like they have over the past week or so.

They should have done everything to keep Leiweke happy, and keep this shit together, now it's devolving into another fucking clown show.

They sold something to Leiweke, Defoe, Bradley and the fans, and now they are pulling the rug out from under it.

ML$E deserves our ire for that.

v00d00daddy
09-01-2014, 12:23 PM
I'll preface by saying they I'm not calling you out. On forums, text sometimes can't convey tone, so that's my intent with this caveat. I respect many of your opinions and your passion for TFC, but what you say here seems illogical and a bit self-contradictory, so please help me understand.

If they want to make people happy, doesn't winning accomplish that goal? I think it's safe to say that there has been a massive amount of venom directed at this organization from the supporters precisely due to the lack of success.

It's all about the money for all of these teams in all sports these days. The traditions of clubs winning for pride of membership or pride of region/city has long been supplanted by the goal of making more money and success is mostly measured in terms of financial rewards. MLS measures its success by being financially viable and earning more popularity which drives sponsorship and TV revenue.

Inheavensince07 is right insomuch as it's only going to really hurt them if people stop buying, but we can still put pressure in them in other ways. Unfortunately, we are left in the position of this or nothing for our home team.

What I've seen from the ownership of the MLSE teams, whether a pension fund asset or belonging to two competing media empires, is that they don't seem to think the extra popularity and earning power of champions are worth the effort, or they are just not that interested. After all, if their sports properties are generating revenues to match their targets and projections, then they don't need to really change anything. They want to win, of course, but that isn't a measure of success for them. Success=making more money that last year.

Sorry. I tend to be confusing because I just rant instead of planning and editing my thoughts.

Yes….winning leads to happiness. I just meant that the top priority is making money, which means keeping the supporters happy.

Now…the hardest way to do that is to spend properly and put out a winning AND entertaining team that also has a bright future. That's hard to do in all sports, at all levels.

So what does our club do? Well….they make sure they have a safety blanket. And that blanket is, and always has been, making sure that IF the team fails, at the very least the supporters (majority) will be catered to. That's why our team has been built, since day one, to look like, play like, sign players like a certain mentality. The mentality that has ruled football in this country forever.

And…my opinion here….the mentality that has made us 122nd in the world on the FIFA rankings.

I've wanted it gone since long before 2007. I hoped TFC would be the way it was transformed. I lived with the first couple years of seeing how things would go. But it was obvious that nothing had changed. I commented in threads in old forums around here about this issue.

8 years later the issue is still here and people still refuse to wonder if it's true…let alone believe it.

When we went to the Total Football Dutch model I was so happy. I was willing to wait the 3-4 years of building a successful club. It was a long term plan that we've all seen works on the global stage so we should have waited.

Instead, our club brought it in but had to keep the safety blanket around. They knew that if it didn't work right away they needed to be able to keep SSH's happy. They knew that people would want heads to roll and would love to be critical of "Total Football". It's just how lovers of what the vast majority of Canadian football fans love behave and think.

I know what I'm saying is called xenophobic and even racist sometimes but that's not what I'm doing. I want TFC and, more importantly, Canada to be successful in the sport I love. I think we should do it by copying a model that the successful countries use.

Instead we pick what unsuccessful countries use. And it's all to make sure that priority number one is taken care of. Keep the seats full. Interest levels high.

The easiest way to do it is to cater to people who are too proud to admit that they're just wrong. Canadian football history has shown it forever.

I'm curious….how does the Academy currently operate? What kind of football do they teach? What kind of young players do they seek out?

I really hope it's not about athleticism, speed, and heart before everything else.

Sorry for another rant. hahaha

Beach_Red
09-01-2014, 12:33 PM
^ Just curious, would you have been willing to wait a lot longer than 3-4 years?

ensco
09-01-2014, 12:37 PM
The other MLSE teams are big, they sail on. But the hiring of Leiweke may have been catastrophic for TFC. This was always my fear.

Imagine if we try to go back to a Payne-style program - forget Payne the individual for a sec, I'm talking about a traditional MLS build model (the short-lived Payne era remains the only time we put an MLS battle-tested GM in charge here).

Could the fan base tolerate that now? There'll by 5000 in the stands next year!

Alonso
09-01-2014, 12:45 PM
The other MLSE teams are big, they sail on. But the hiring of Leiweke may have been catastrophic for TFC. This was always my fear.

Imagine if we try to go back to a Payne-style program - forget Payne the individual for a sec, I'm talking about a traditional MLS build model (the short-lived Payne era remains the only time we put an MLS battle-tested GM in charge here).

Could the fan base tolerate that now? There'll by 5000 in the stands next year!


Yeah this is a major ML$E fuck up.

If that happens (5,000 fans in the seats) Bradley is gone for sure to. ML$E won't want to pay his salary, and he would rather be playing for NYCFC.

If MLSE don't carefully manage TFC over the next few months and pull this shit back together asap, this could be the biggest debacle the league has ever seen.

BBLaw
09-01-2014, 12:57 PM
Yeah this is a major ML$E fuck up.

If that happens (5,000 fans in the seats) Bradley is gone for sure to. ML$E won't want to pay his salary, and he would rather be playing for NYCFC.

If MLSE don't carefully manage TFC over the next few months and pull this shit back together asap, this could be the biggest debacle the league has ever seen.

We're getting scary close to 5000 fans in the seats, 5000 tickets sold will never happen though and that's all the organization cares about sadly. Even if ticket sales begin to bomb they'll just force Leafs STH to buy TFC tickets like they did with the Raptors all those years.

jloome
09-01-2014, 01:21 PM
The other MLSE teams are big, they sail on. But the hiring of Leiweke may have been catastrophic for TFC. This was always my fear.

He went big AND he went home.

flatpicker
09-01-2014, 01:28 PM
I bet Don Garber loves TFC and MLSE!

I joke

v00d00daddy
09-01-2014, 01:38 PM
^ Just curious, would you have been willing to wait a lot longer than 3-4 years?

Depends on what I saw during those 3-4 years.

3-4 years it's plenty of time to get the roster you want. Plenty of time to work on the tactics and how to make them work in MLS. And, most importantly, develop the 14, 15,16 year olds that you see potential in to players that provide depth and talent on the senior roster.

So….if the club/gm/coach can't do that in 3-4 years I think I'd be upset. But that doesn't mean I'd give up on the idea. More likely give up on the people trying to implement the idea.

I sure as hell would never be okay going back to the garbage ideology that made us bad to begin with.

OgtheDim
09-01-2014, 01:39 PM
We're getting scary close to 5000 fans in the seats,...

Bull pucky....the worst attended game was probably last Saturday and it looked like 15K.

We've seen 5K in that stadium - CCL mid week games against non Mexican teams.

Pookie
09-01-2014, 01:51 PM
I read the doom and gloom and I just don't get it. I'm actually considering whether I get back in on season tickets for 2015.

The way I see it is that with Tim L leaving, a new President needs to be put in place. I can't see Tim B running the show at this stage. Therefore, this current power void is temporary.

The new guy will simply either keep Tim B (if he is doing a good job) or will install his own GM.

That means that the clock on Tim B is running and he has a short window to seize and secure his job in advance of Tim L's replacement. That means winning.

He has the balls to make the decision on Nelsen. If all goes well today, TFC will no longer have the boat anchor that is Defoe's contract (injuries and no budget relief for injured players and all of that). I don't think any of that will be Bez's doing. Defoe wants out and any deal would need to be approved by the Board. But still, it will be a bit of a fresh start.

Vanney either does well or he won't be back. It's either win or be replaced and this time they actually have a roster that should be able to do it.

And with multiple draft picks next year, they can actually start to rebuild the way that works in the MLS… via the draft.

So, I'm not seeing the downside.

Fans in the stands sure but there is no danger of the franchise folding… MLS owns it. It might look and sound like New England but it kinda already does.

Pookie
09-01-2014, 03:06 PM
^ if Defoe stays… I change my mind and will keep my money.

This team needs 3 healthy DPs to be able to compete.

Phil
09-01-2014, 03:30 PM
Every single year except the first and 2014 I have been embarrassed by this organization .. They have been a complete and utter disaster .. For the first time in 7 years I started getting back into the mind set that they have HOPE to be a team to be proud of ..

Bottom line the 3 headed Monster that owns this team is the Problem.. I even hate to say it but the RPB can and have been fooled by this beast over and over again. The team is a disgrace just like it was 3 and 4 and 5 years ago .. drama after dram after drama ..

As for the support til I die stuff I find that ridiculous and immature to a degree .. It is in fact only a shitty soccer team . There really should be a friggin revolt against this company and team ..

I am born and raised Toronto and as a long time leaf fan (no longer ) I woke up and said fook that .. Hit this team were it HURTS in the pocket book .

Many RPB have been on here since inception , I know you all by screen name etc (not personally ) but I feel that many are either brainwashed or short sighted .. I get enjoying the game day with friends etc .. BUT this is a time to stop this madness . Stop with the seasons tickets and padding the coffers ..
I have had seasons since day 1 and to lead the charge I am dropping the two tics and saying gbye forever .. I can always come by a game day tic but as for giving them my interest money F that ...

Sorry you feel that way.

Notice that RPB hasn't been issuing any comments or making bold statements. Its because collectively this has been one of those moments where the air is sucked out of the room. Out of respect for our membership we have been waiting to see what is going on with the club. Its out of respect for the members that we will collectively regroup and determine how we proceed forward.

OfficeGuy
09-01-2014, 06:07 PM
Sorry you feel that way.

Notice that RPB hasn't been issuing any comments or making bold statements. Its because collectively this has been one of those moments where the air is sucked out of the room. Out of respect for our membership we have been waiting to see what is going on with the club. Its out of respect for the members that we will collectively regroup and determine how we proceed forward.[/QUOTE]

agreed....now is the time for solidarity to come thru as our support

inheavensince07
09-01-2014, 06:25 PM
Sorry you feel that way.

Notice that RPB hasn't been issuing any comments or making bold statements. Its because collectively this has been one of those moments where the air is sucked out of the room. Out of respect for our membership we have been waiting to see what is going on with the club. Its out of respect for the members that we will collectively regroup and determine how we proceed forward.

agreed....now is the time for solidarity to come thru as our support[/QUOTE]

What do you mean ? stick with them and keep their bottom line on forecast ? Or stand up and use your power .. Just in some quick thoughts , i figured out that if RPB had 500 people that wanted to stop with $500 / season ticket that would hit their precious bottom line by 250,000, not to mention all the game day spending each week .
This group has been strong since day 1 , BUT i really don't think it has used its powers properly .. THE RPB make the game what it is down there thats the bottomline ..

Fort York Redcoat
09-01-2014, 06:27 PM
What proof do you have that being owned by MLSE isn't shambolic?

I don't need to prove that. It's what's happening right now.

I don't trust this community from what I see to own and run a team. Do you see any indicators this community could work together?

MightyDM
09-01-2014, 06:33 PM
I don't need to prove that. It's what's happening right now.

I don't trust this community from what I see to own and run a team. Do you see any indicators this community could work together?

I don't see why we cannot. There is a strong history of community owned teams. Toronto is a bit large but that's the only challenge I see. Couldn't really be worse, could it?

jazzy
09-01-2014, 06:41 PM
I read the doom and gloom and I just don't get it. I'm actually considering whether I get back in on season tickets for 2015.

The way I see it is that with Tim L leaving, a new President needs to be put in place. I can't see Tim B running the show at this stage. Therefore, this current power void is temporary.

The new guy will simply either keep Tim B (if he is doing a good job) or will install his own GM.

That means that the clock on Tim B is running and he has a short window to seize and secure his job in advance of Tim L's replacement. That means winning.

He has the balls to make the decision on Nelsen. If all goes well today, TFC will no longer have the boat anchor that is Defoe's contract (injuries and no budget relief for injured players and all of that). I don't think any of that will be Bez's doing. Defoe wants out and any deal would need to be approved by the Board. But still, it will be a bit of a fresh start.

Vanney either does well or he won't be back. It's either win or be replaced and this time they actually have a roster that should be able to do it.

And with multiple draft picks next year, they can actually start to rebuild the way that works in the MLS… via the draft.

So, I'm not seeing the downside.

Fans in the stands sure but there is no danger of the franchise folding… MLS owns it. It might look and sound like New England but it kinda already does.

who is this imposter? giving a positive glass half full view of the future . I'll scare myself and say I agree with this and I actually feel better today than I did after that piece of crap game I saw Sat night . Everyone I know who are ardent , knowledgeable supporters and ( I am not including myself as that knowledgeable) , were dumbfounded after Sat nights game . The team was adrift without a rudder . Something had to be done . I'm especially happy I don't have to listen to anymore 'all is good Nelson post mortems' ....Tired of being the laughing stock of the league .

Oldtimer
09-01-2014, 06:56 PM
It's not necessarily stupid or blind to support an imperfect team. It depends on what you value. You can always be a bandwagon jumper for this year's top epl side.

If you mean the RPB should be protesting, forget that as far as I'm concerned. Been there, not going back. Not this season. Not ever.

inheavensince07
09-01-2014, 07:21 PM
It's not necessarily stupid or blind to support an imperfect team. It depends on what you value. You can always be a bandwagon jumper for this year's top epl side.

If you mean the RPB should be protesting, forget that as far as I'm concerned. Been there, not going back. Not this season. Not ever.


With all due respect "Oldtimer" I have followed you and your views since the beginning and IMO you are part of the problem .. Again that is my own opinion to which I am entitled .. fyi I don't care about the EPL or any soccer team enough to jump a wagon.. I strongly disagree with you OT and always have ..

RPB will continue to do what you want as a unit but I firmly believe it is time to drop this team like a old pair of gitch ..

Phil
09-02-2014, 07:41 AM
What do you mean ? stick with them and keep their bottom line on forecast ? Or stand up and use your power .. Just in some quick thoughts , i figured out that if RPB had 500 people that wanted to stop with $500 / season ticket that would hit their precious bottom line by 250,000, not to mention all the game day spending each week .
This group has been strong since day 1 , BUT i really don't think it has used its powers properly .. THE RPB make the game what it is down there thats the bottomline ..

Asking the group to not renew or support this club is certainly not a mandate of this group.

Fort York Redcoat
09-02-2014, 07:59 AM
I don't see why we cannot. There is a strong history of community owned teams. Toronto is a bit large but that's the only challenge I see. Couldn't really be worse, could it?

If you can't see how divided people are in opinion in this community...then stick around- you will.

Fort York Redcoat
09-02-2014, 08:01 AM
RPB will continue to do what you want as a unit but I firmly believe it is time to drop this team like a old pair of gitch ..

Read this again. You're asking the support to drop the team? I thought you wanted a protest by dropping tickets. Really, if you expect people to follow you should choose your words more carefully.

Phil
09-02-2014, 08:24 AM
I don't see why we cannot. There is a strong history of community owned teams. Toronto is a bit large but that's the only challenge I see. Couldn't really be worse, could it?

Given the current cost of the team - we paid what, $10 million and its gained value since then, massively. So right there, a new MLS team is what - $70 million a franchise. Here is the kicker, MLS owns the team and we bought the rights (MLSE in this case). So even under what you say is done throughout history, I don't think there is one case of this working on such a large scale and with a single entity league setup.

So community owns it, then we better start selling the players because it doesn't take much to figure out that the team is operating at a loss given the payroll. It would be great, we would all own the team, then have to up our seasons price and protest ourselves at the same time for money gouging ourselves. Sorry but I find it comical when any degree of logic is applied to this scenario. I do appreciate the idea, its just the realities around it that are being misunderstood.

Lets not even start to tackle the logistics of actually purchasing the team from MLSE, I am sure they would love to part with their heavily invested in team.

MightyDM
09-02-2014, 09:12 AM
If you can't see how divided people are in opinion in this community...then stick around- you will.
I've been around, don't worry. Personally, I would like to do more than bitch and moanabout MLSE.

Fort York Redcoat
09-02-2014, 09:18 AM
I've been around, don't worry. Personally, I would like to do more than bitch and moanabout ML

Do me a favour. In all sincerity, just find out what communities own sports teams and how it came about. Then just pick some comparable leaders in this community to shed the image of a fan-operated club. It would be a better sell on the idea.

MightyDM
09-02-2014, 11:46 AM
That's fair enough. I fully understand why these boards don't give you hope but if the first response to a new idea, that has worked well elsewhere, is to crap all over it, then we are all as bad as each other. "How would it work?" is a better response to my way of thinking than "we are all too stupid to do it"

MightyDM
09-02-2014, 11:59 AM
The Green Bay Packers are a publicly owned non profit company with 352,427 shareholders. It was started in 1923, and has five separate calls for capital, the most recent in 2012. There are community owned models that work.

OgtheDim
09-02-2014, 01:16 PM
The Packers are a religion.

The Green Riders were a mess for 30 years.

To me, this idea is like the pro / rel discussions. Not every idea works somewhere else.

Phil
09-02-2014, 01:21 PM
The Green Bay Packers are a publicly owned non profit company with 352,427 shareholders. It was started in 1923, and has five separate calls for capital, the most recent in 2012. There are community owned models that work.

Most teams that have this type of ownership failed at some point and didn't have the support of a company so community ownership stepped up right?

I just don't see how MLSE hand over this team, or how the MLS does. They want strong ownership and would relocate or re brand a team (ala Chivas) vs some of the proposed ownership models. Even if the MLS revoked our team, there is such demand that they would probably put it into a different market.

james
09-02-2014, 01:34 PM
Alright MLSe is not selling the team. It is a pipe dream that people don't even understand how this all works. Might as well just change this subject.

Oldtimer
09-02-2014, 02:59 PM
With all due respect "Oldtimer" I have followed you and your views since the beginning and IMO you are part of the problem .. Again that is my own opinion to which I am entitled .. fyi I don't care about the EPL or any soccer team enough to jump a wagon.. I strongly disagree with you OT and always have ..

RPB will continue to do what you want as a unit but I firmly believe it is time to drop this team like a old pair of gitch ..

Since the beginning? You mean October 2013 when you joined this board? Or earlier? My opinions have changed greatly over time since 2006 when I was an original on Simon's board, or when I first started following MLS in 2005 or the Toronto Lynx before that. If my opinions have changed so much, which opinions do you mean? My current ones against protesting? My joining in protesting in 2011? My gladness at just having a top flight team of our own in 2007? My feelings when the Blizzard folded? (Yes I am that old).

If you believe that the RPB should drop this team, then :seeya:. Be true to your values and drop the team, I'm not even sure why you would waste another 10 seconds discussing this team. I don't spend a second on the Toronto Rock board because I don't really care about them (sorry to any Rock fans).

Fort York Redcoat
09-02-2014, 04:29 PM
What do you mean ? stick with them and keep their bottom line on forecast ? Or stand up and use your power .. Just in some quick thoughts , i figured out that if RPB had 500 people that wanted to stop with $500 / season ticket that would hit their precious bottom line by 250,000, not to mention all the game day spending each week .
This group has been strong since day 1 , BUT i really don't think it has used its powers properly .. THE RPB make the game what it is down there thats the bottomline ..

This isn't the first suggestion from a Registered User to the group. If you don't think we've used our power properly than it sounds like we could've used your help. You could've become a member. You still could if you weren't giving up on the team.

Anyway, thanks for the input but I'm not quitting my seasons tickets.

Good Luck

trane
09-03-2014, 02:12 PM
For the first time we have a front office that is dedicated to winning in word and action. I am not protesting anything. I was very much against MLSE, but this is the first regime that really got something done, and continuous to show that it is serious about winning. We need to support them.

I did give up my season tickets, and now I have worked out a deal to get new ones, in 115. Your timing is way, way , way off.

trane
09-03-2014, 02:18 PM
By the way guys, Nelsen did some good things, sure, but he had his kick at the can, and he won 3 out of 13 at a critical time of the season, ANY serious FO would have fired him, and they showed balls in doing so. (Listen I was not even calling for his sacking but in retrospect it was the right thing-as for the new hire, I have not clue if it will work and that does worry me a bit, but as far as firing it was called for).

I find it funny, that now that we finally have serious leadership some are calling for a protest, years after many of us, former-RPB ( and I hope for me future) had taken up the fight already.

Ultra & Proud
09-03-2014, 02:27 PM
Trane is right. If the FO sat around until the season ended and let the team tank then you could accuse them of not wanting to win. The fact that they are making difficult calls to try to save the season rather than to save face shows me all I needed to see. Right or not at least Bez took a stand and made the hard choice.

Oldtimer
09-03-2014, 02:44 PM
For the first time we have a front office that is dedicated to winning in word and action. I am not protesting anything. I was very much against MLSE, but this is the first regime that really got something done, and continuous to show that it is serious about winning. We need to support them.

I did give up my season tickets, and now I have worked out a deal to get new ones, in 115. Your timing is way, way , way off.

You know Trane, I wanted to give Nelsen a chance, it seemed like he was learning, but you can't argue with results, they were dismal.
Kudos to Bez for making the hard decision. So I am in total agreement with you.

Phil
09-03-2014, 02:59 PM
Gotta say, trane has been bang on with a lot of my feelings this past year.

Ivy
09-03-2014, 03:35 PM
Kudos to the execs for keeping this thread open. If it were up to me, I would have shut down and deleted this disrespectful thread long ago.

OfficeGuy
09-03-2014, 04:29 PM
#ForeverRED

Boycotts are not what RPB is about

We need a good cry and then we need to pick ourselves up and support our Team


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VZ1IflkWCY

tfcleeds
09-03-2014, 06:29 PM
You know Trane, I wanted to give Nelsen a chance, it seemed like he was learning, but you can't argue with results, they were dismal.
Kudos to Bez for making the hard decision. So I am in total agreement with you.

Not sure how hard a decision it was exactly - when you basically rip your boss to shreds in a presser, you can be pretty sure your days are numbered. However, I do agree with the decision. Nelsen may yet become a good manager, but this season was slipping away under him.

Masked Man
09-03-2014, 09:29 PM
Not sure how hard a decision it was exactly - when you basically rip your boss to shreds in a presser, you can be pretty sure your days are numbered. However, I do agree with the decision. Nelsen may yet become a good manager, but this season was slipping away under him.

Bez needed to suck it up & take one for the team there. Instead he canned Nelsen & probably put this season in real jeopardy by creating instability & dysfunction. There is no way this team has a higher chance of making the playoffs with Vanney then they would've had with Nelsen. Regardless of what you believe about Nelsen as coach, his firing was a pure knee-jerk move.

As far as MLSE goes. Honestly, they are a complete & utter plague upon sports in this city. I found it interesting combined with all the Nelsen stuff going on, the Defoe thing leaks at the same time. Already starting those rumors so they don't have to look bad when they sell Defoe.....

Seems like Leiweke was the only one in that operation that understood long-term vision & investing now to reap rewards later on.

Shakes McQueen
09-03-2014, 09:52 PM
I think saying MLSE doesn't "deserve" this team, is looking at it in a wonky way. MLSE put up the money for an MLS franchise. MLSE made the necessary deals to get a stadium built for their MLS franchise. If someone better wanted to come along and do it, where were they? Where are all of the white knights, coming in to do "better" than MLSE?

MLSE purchased the team, and we all made a conscious decision to support it. We had the option not to - we still do. It's not like supporting TFC is some generational thing that's been passed down for the last 100 years - the team is less than a decade old. They are peddling a new product, and you had/have the option not to consume it.

dutch
09-04-2014, 01:56 AM
We use to bitch about Anselmi. We knew peddi and his legion of idiots did this to us. Yet Anselmi left and 'roger&bill' came in shortly after and still peddi has his power. I want to know who hired lewicki and gave him a golden egg contract, where he vacationed in Toronto with our media for a year and got to go home unscathed. I believe peddi still has the ears of whatever audience happens to surround his percentage interest since theyre all newer than him to the MLSE game. Roger and bill havent been here long so they let him have a full swing and believed his perfect pitch. I now want them to find a way to kick him to the curb, buy him out like all our other athletes. I'm not mad man, I'm more confused but I know he has been behind so many of our problems since 07. he was anselmi's boss, leiwicki's boss and the next guys boss will also be hired by peddi unless we make it known he dosent deserve a say in this bloody mess anymore

Shakes McQueen
09-04-2014, 02:07 AM
We use to bitch about Anselmi. We knew peddi and his legion of idiots did this to us. Yet Anselmi left and 'roger&bill' came in shortly after and still peddi has his power. I want to know who hired lewicki and gave him a golden egg contract, where he vacationed in Toronto with our media for a year and got to go home unscathed. I believe peddi still has the ears of whatever audience happens to surround his percentage interest since theyre all newer than him to the MLSE game. Roger and bill havent been here long so they let him have a full swing and believed his perfect pitch. I now want them to find a way to kick him to the curb, buy him out like all our other athletes. I'm not mad man, I'm more confused but I know he has been behind so many of our problems since 07. he was anselmi's boss, leiwicki's boss and the next guys boss will also be hired by peddi unless we make it known he dosent deserve a say in this bloody mess anymore

This paragraph is hard to follow, to say the least, but Peddie hasn't worked for MLSE since the end of 2011.

Blizzard
09-04-2014, 06:10 AM
Bez needed to suck it up & take one for the team there. Instead he canned Nelsen & probably put this season in real jeopardy by creating instability & dysfunction. There is no way this team has a higher chance of making the playoffs with Vanney then they would've had with Nelsen. Regardless of what you believe about Nelsen as coach, his firing was a pure knee-jerk move.

As far as MLSE goes. Honestly, they are a complete & utter plague upon sports in this city. I found it interesting combined with all the Nelsen stuff going on, the Defoe thing leaks at the same time. Already starting those rumors so they don't have to look bad when they sell Defoe.....

Seems like Leiweke was the only one in that operation that understood long-term vision & investing now to reap rewards later on.

Do you really believe that Bez fired Nelsen without Lieweke's blessings?

tfcleeds
09-04-2014, 06:22 AM
TL admitted as much that hanging on to Nelsen for as long as he did was a mistake.

Regardless, we either make the playoffs now with who we've got, or we don't.

ensco
09-04-2014, 07:10 AM
Do you really believe that Bez fired Nelsen without Lieweke's blessings?

I do. Or more precisely, I believe that Leiweke couldn't have stopped it. Leiweke is a powerless figurehead now.

Fort York Redcoat
09-04-2014, 08:38 AM
Bez needed to suck it up & take one for the team there. Instead he canned Nelsen & probably put this season in real jeopardy by creating instability & dysfunction. There is no way this team has a higher chance of making the playoffs with Vanney then they would've had with Nelsen. Regardless of what you believe about Nelsen as coach, his firing was a pure knee-jerk move.

There is no way you can know if the team would have better chances with a coach the players clearly gave up on. Vanney wasn't everyone's dream choice he was the best alternative in a rushed situation. Vanney's influence in 2 days clearly was not enough last night.

QBall
09-04-2014, 09:32 AM
There is no "MLSE".

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/54035227.jpg

Whoa!

C.Ronaldo
09-04-2014, 10:01 AM
What are the chances of MLSE selling this team?

Fort York Redcoat
09-04-2014, 10:05 AM
What are the chances of MLSE selling this team?

The same as it being bought by a community collective at this point...

ensco
09-04-2014, 10:14 AM
http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/54035227.jpg

Whoa!

Very well done!

Can I make that my avatar?

QBall
09-04-2014, 10:15 AM
What are the chances of MLSE selling this team?

Zero. Media giants aren't going to sell assets that put eyes on TV screens. It's like asking Fox to sell The Simpsons.

QBall
09-04-2014, 10:16 AM
Very well done!

Can I make that my avatar?

By all means!

C.Ronaldo
09-04-2014, 11:24 AM
Zero. Media giants aren't going to sell assets that put eyes on TV screens. It's like asking Fox to sell The Simpsons.

but simpsons make money

and TFC doesnt put eyes on the screen

inheavensince07
09-13-2014, 09:59 AM
Defoe will not return is the big news of the day .. I guess this is that babies Defoe POV but I am sure that the bullcrap behind the scenes MLSE made it much easier to just stay away .. Again the only way to get change EVER with this team is to do something harsh other then show up every home game and fill their piggy bank .. Have some back bone and stand up for what is right .. Supporting this team is NOT the right thing to do .. They have repeatedly shown this since 07 ..

Wagner
09-13-2014, 11:18 AM
Defoe will not return is the big news of the day .. I guess this is that babies Defoe POV but I am sure that the bullcrap behind the scenes MLSE made it much easier to just stay away .. Again the only way to get change EVER with this team is to do something harsh other then show up every home game and fill their piggy bank .. Have some back bone and stand up for what is right .. Supporting this team is NOT the right thing to do .. They have repeatedly shown this since 07 ..

So you come to a supporters community to advise not supporting?

perhaps you'd be better off trying to find an "anti-supporter" website.

inheavensince07
09-13-2014, 11:22 AM
So you come to a supporters community to advise not supporting?

perhaps you'd be better off trying to find an "anti-supporter" website.

Why is that sir? I feel that the only way to get Change with this team is to do something drastic .. I would like to be able to have an opinion on here ?

Are you currently happy with this team or would you like somethings to change?? Would you liketo just hope things change or do you want to do something????

inheavensince07
09-13-2014, 11:25 AM
Why is that sir? I feel that the only way to get Change with this team is to do something drastic .. I would like to be able to have an opinion on here ?

Are you currently happy with this team or would you like somethings to change?? Would you liketo just hope things change or do you want to do something????


I really notice if I don't fall in line with a certain Core of the RPB I become a non supporter?? I disagree with the way the RPB currently support .. This is the only group that can make a difference in terms of Fan experience .. But the RPB seem to just want to keep coming and singing like its all good .. MLSE loves that $$$

Qman
09-13-2014, 11:28 AM
just watch on TV. All the games are free on sportsnet360 and tsn2. Then you support the players and not put $$$ in MLSE pockets.

BuSaPuNk
09-13-2014, 11:30 AM
Why is that sir? I feel that the only way to get Change with this team is to do something drastic .. I would like to be able to have an opinion on here ?

Are you currently happy with this team or would you like somethings to change?? Would you liketo just hope things change or do you want to do something????

Things are changing there are changes coming through the pipe but it takes time. Can't turn around everything in a week or two.

Protesting has been done before and really doesn't get you anywhere. How are you going to protest and not show up to games, not singing for the club?

And when things start to workout when you come back and support again you don't think that looks silly.

As a total fan base if supporters walked out and don't support the club how does that look to the regular fan? Why would they even come back?

I've said it before and ill say it again you don't choose when you support, you do it.

inheavensince07
09-13-2014, 11:47 AM
Things are changing there are changes coming through the pipe but it takes time. Can't turn around everything in a week or two.

Protesting has been done before and really doesn't get you anywhere. How are you going to protest and not show up to games, not singing for the club?

And when things start to workout when you come back and support again you don't think that looks silly.



As a total fan base if supporters walked out and don't support the club how does that look to the regular fan? Why would they even come back?

I've said it before and ill say it again you don't choose when you support, you do it.

IMO it would look pretty good .. All the crap that has gone on for years yet the supporters just keep supporting like its all good .. It would show the regular fans that we should not settle for Leaf nation type garbage that we continue to get .. You can still support a team by not buying tickets or by not singing and dancing like its all good .. I have respect for all the long time RPB but c'mon guys its borderline ridiculous how long we can put up with this teams crap.. We all know MLSE is a business like all teams I guess but the only way to force change for MLSE is to hit them in the purse .. Maybe we would get lucky if no one showed up and attendance was down they may want to sell the sinking ship and a Rich man could come in and buy .. who knows>>>>

BuSaPuNk
09-13-2014, 12:04 PM
IMO it would look pretty good .. All the crap that has gone on for years yet the supporters just keep supporting like its all good .. It would show the regular fans that we should not settle for Leaf nation type garbage that we continue to get .. You can still support a team by not buying tickets or by not singing and dancing like its all good .. I have respect for all the long time RPB but c'mon guys its borderline ridiculous how long we can put up with this teams crap.. We all know MLSE is a business like all teams I guess but the only way to force change for MLSE is to hit them in the purse .. Maybe we would get lucky if no one showed up and attendance was down they may want to sell the sinking ship and a Rich man could come in and buy .. who knows>>>>

Yep because a lot of people left after 2012-2013 and what did they do break the bank on three DPs and they came back to being in the same spot as a club we are now that sure made a difference.

Turning your back on the club never works.

Supporters can be critical and relevant to a team but they don't give up as a group. United we stand , divided we fall.

We do not turn our backs on the badge. We don't expect players to ever do that why would we?

Phil
09-13-2014, 12:05 PM
I really notice if I don't fall in line with a certain Core of the RPB I become a non supporter?? I disagree with the way the RPB currently support .. This is the only group that can make a difference in terms of Fan experience .. But the RPB seem to just want to keep coming and singing like its all good .. MLSE loves that $$$

Yet here you are on our message board that we pay for and host you on telling us that you disagree...we are entitled to post rebuttals, especially when you make the direct and indirect accusations that you do.

Go insult another group for a change. We are sticking with the badge and team. Here is a little insight into support - we are a community and have friendships and experiences outside the team. We unite and support our team regardless of the outcome or standings, it's great getting together with friends at the pitch. For some to recommend that we watch at home as support is an insult to most. A shame that some don't get to enjoy this team the way we do.

That is your warning, this is trolling, simply posting the same thing to get argument points time after time. Thread closed as the statement was made and resulting discussion is circular.