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View Full Version : is Defoe's attitude disruptive?



shwade
08-24-2014, 10:49 AM
Ok so obviously Gilberto isn't a flop despite what some experts predicted. But let's continue the discussion being had in that thread about Defoe. I think everyone has noticed his hands going up in the air every time someone messes up a pass or God forbid doesn't pass to him. It's quite unfair really when these minimum wage players are working their asses off and doing pretty well to have to be chewed up by their superstar teammate. I don't recall Henry doing that often in NY or Beckham in LA.
So do you guys think Defoe is unhappy here or we're overreacting to his constant displays of frustration. I mean Gilberto has given him some pretty nifty passes that Defoe has messed up himself (and Osorio has made nice passes too) so they don't deserve the embarrassment when some of their decisions don't pan out.
My $0.02

David_Oliveira
08-24-2014, 11:33 AM
I see it as heat of the moment type thing from someone who wants to win all the time

Hamilton_Red
08-24-2014, 12:00 PM
We need Defoe to get back to form quickly so we can start firing on all cylinders. We've not yet had a game with all three DP's on and in form. Its essential for a decent run at the playoffs.

All TFC fans should want and expect to win every game. There needs to be pressure on the team to win every home game especially. Otherwise you end up with futility we have had for all those years.

Cashcleaner
08-24-2014, 01:06 PM
I see it as heat of the moment type thing from someone who wants to win all the time

Agreed. I wouldn't make too much of it. Defoe is aware of the quality of the league he plays in and of his teammates, but he's a professional first and foremost. I think he's understandably frustrated at times, but I would be surprised if anything serious becomes of it.

reggie
08-24-2014, 01:11 PM
can you imagine where this club would be without Defoe,they would have a mtl type record.

Red4ever
08-24-2014, 01:33 PM
Everyone in the locker room likes Defoe. If you're going to ask me for my source you won't get one, so you can take it or leave it.

However the attitude problems often attributed to him on this board is inaccurate. This is as silly as the Gilberto thread and will likely veer in the same direction. I think if he voices his opinion publicly that the caliber of play of his team mates is inferior, then this discussion has merit. Until then, this is pure speculation.

People are animated, if his team mates haven't said anything, and he hasn't said anything then I'm not sure why this is a thing.

OgtheDim
08-24-2014, 02:50 PM
And..........we have our new whipping boy.

Richard
08-24-2014, 03:18 PM
^^^^^.
Good. I was getting tired of the character assassination on Gilberto now that he is scoring as there was nothing else to talk about.

molenshtain
08-24-2014, 04:08 PM
All TFC fans should want and expect to win every game. There needs to be pressure on the team to win every home game especially. Otherwise you end up with futility we have had for all those years.

no, they shouldn't. that's unreasonable and impossible. I'd like them to win every game. This is a league where the first place team in our conference has dropped points more times than not. This isn't the PL or La Liga where the best teams are expected to win at least 30 out of 38. lots of people don't seem to understand that.

molenshtain
08-24-2014, 04:10 PM
Everyone in the locker room likes Defoe. If you're going to ask me for my source you won't get one, so you can take it or leave it.

However the attitude problems often attributed to him on this board is inaccurate. This is as silly as the Gilberto thread and will likely veer in the same direction. I think if he voices his opinion publicly that the caliber of play of his team mates is inferior, then this discussion has merit. Until then, this is pure speculation.

People are animated, if his team mates haven't said anything, and he hasn't said anything then I'm not sure why this is a thing.

Yup. Entirely agree with you on this. Defoe gets irritated because, say, Oduro never looks up when he's running with the ball. ever. That's fucking frustrating.

ryan
08-24-2014, 05:56 PM
I'd be more concerned if he wasn't showing frustration when his teammates make bad decisions.

Shakes McQueen
08-24-2014, 06:08 PM
He's a competitor, and gets frustrated with his teammates occasionally, in the heat of the moment. It's not a bad thing. As long as it isn't carrying over to the locker room afterward, which by pretty much all inside accounts it is not.

The guy wants to win, and occasionally gets frustrated with the quality of play around him - when you want to win, it really doesn't matter if everyone around you is trying their best. This isn't a beer league. Demand more, and hope the people around you elevate their game.

shwade
08-24-2014, 06:33 PM
And..........we have our new whipping boy.

That's awfully simple of you.

I agree that Oduro and Jackson are probably frustrating to play with at times but to vent every single time must get tiring to deal with. I guess if everyone on the team is on the same page and there's no locker room rift then all is good, the frustration he shows with Gilberto is irritating at times..if only he could applaud a good attempt every now and then.

mcolvy
08-24-2014, 06:59 PM
Everyone in the locker room likes Defoe. If you're going to ask me for my source you won't get one, so you can take it or leave it.

However the attitude problems often attributed to him on this board is inaccurate. This is as silly as the Gilberto thread and will likely veer in the same direction. I think if he voices his opinion publicly that the caliber of play of his team mates is inferior, then this discussion has merit. Until then, this is pure speculation.

People are animated, if his team mates haven't said anything, and he hasn't said anything then I'm not sure why this is a thing.

I don't care if people "like" him. By putting so much pressure on his teammates it will only add to this team's struggles. For those of you playing this all down as simply him being a good competitor... I remember last game him running into the offensive quarter of the field and winning a throw in, and within seconds giving a smug, frustrated and condescending signal to his teammate to hurry on over to take the throw. The player was already jogging over and it was the last piece of evidence I need. I don't care if he is an okay guy off of the pitch. I have no interest in watching a little man walk around the field whinning all game. Its embarassing.

portu
08-24-2014, 07:16 PM
I'd be more concerned if he wasn't showing frustration when his teammates make bad decisions.
Seconded. As a player who has played on rep teams where I've easily been the best on the pitch it is extremely frustrating to have teammates below my skill level fucking up a lot but the second I stopped caring was usually the second I either decided to change clubs at the end of the season or stopped trying. I see him getting frustrated as a way of showing he of cares.

MartinUtd
08-24-2014, 08:23 PM
Stopped reading after the first sentence.

Why do you continually try to rewrite other people's point of view?

shwade
08-24-2014, 09:41 PM
Stopped reading after the first sentence.

Why do you continually try to rewrite other people's point of view?

Oh no. What are we going to do without your opinion?

MartinUtd
08-24-2014, 09:58 PM
Mod Edit: If you want to block him, then block him. No need for a parting insult.

Red4ever
08-24-2014, 10:07 PM
Give him credit ,he successfully took the thread exactly where he wanted it to go.

Oblio2
08-24-2014, 10:24 PM
This thread is horseshit.
/End

shwade
08-24-2014, 10:25 PM
Don't know why people are bringing bruised egos from the other thread into this one.
Just wanted a legitimate discussion on Defoe's attitude... Some people are just too sensitive.

Oblio2
08-24-2014, 10:26 PM
I did say /End.

jloome
08-24-2014, 11:05 PM
That's awfully simple of you.

I agree that Oduro and Jackson are probably frustrating to play with at times but to vent every single time must get tiring to deal with. I guess if everyone on the team is on the same page and there's no locker room rift then all is good, the frustration he shows with Gilberto is irritating at times..if only he could applaud a good attempt every now and then.

That's awfully simple of you.

Perhaps you don't notice, but Bradley, Luke Moore, Osorio and even Dominic Oduro (the most laid-back guy on Earth) have all done the same thing. Perhaps fixating on one player showing natural frustration when things don't go well is giving you a somewhat skewed perspective. In fact, I guarantee you if you go back and watch the game on mlslive, you'll see that Luke Moore expresses his frustrations more than anyone on the team, Defoe included.

They're just doing what any good player does when he has open space and doesn't get the ball. It's normal, not divisive. The day he actually starts dividing the locker room by saying things publicly is the day to worry.

This isn't it.

Shakes McQueen
08-24-2014, 11:11 PM
That's awfully simple of you.

Perhaps you don't notice, but Bradley, Luke Moore, Osorio and even Dominic Oduro (the most laid-back guy on Earth) have all done the same thing. Perhaps fixating on one player showing natural frustration when things don't go well is giving you a somewhat skewed perspective. In fact, I guarantee you if you go back and watch the game on mlslive, you'll see that Luke Moore expresses his frustrations more than anyone on the team, Defoe included.

They're just doing what any good player does when he has open space and doesn't get the ball. It's normal, not divisive. The day he actually starts dividing the locker room by saying things publicly is the day to worry.

This isn't it.

^Yep.

I'd be more concerned if he never got hot under the collar with his teammates during a game, because it would mean he was just floating around, and not really caring.

Red Skies At Night
08-25-2014, 07:19 AM
There have been three constants in Defoe's career since I watched him join west ham as a teenager from Charlton... 1. Tight Hamstrings 2. Gesticulating at his teammates 3. SCORING GOALS... so nothing new here...

Globetrotter
08-25-2014, 07:25 AM
Everyone knows Luke Moore is the guy that runs the offence for this team. Moore+Gilberto or Moore+Defoe = goals. Gilberto+Defoe is where there's trouble.

Detroit_TFC
08-25-2014, 09:14 AM
I am concerned about where Defoe's head is at. I'm hoping that it is mainly due to the open transfer window, time to ponder this stuff due to the fitness issues and possibly people whispering into his ear. Maybe after the end of the month we'll see some better focus.

Derko
08-25-2014, 09:23 AM
Everyone knows Luke Moore is the guy that runs the offence for this team. Moore+Gilberto or Moore+Defoe = goals. Gilberto+Defoe is where there's trouble.

:picard:

ManUtd4ever
08-25-2014, 09:26 AM
No issues with Defoe's demeanor on the pitch. As mentioned, it's in his nature to be demonstrative and passionate, and I would be more concerned if that didn't translate to his game here in Toronto in a new league. I think it's obvious that he's not just here to collect a pay cheque. He genuinely wants to win.

shwade
08-25-2014, 12:40 PM
That's awfully simple of you.

Perhaps you don't notice, but Bradley, Luke Moore, Osorio and even Dominic Oduro (the most laid-back guy on Earth) have all done the same thing. Perhaps fixating on one player showing natural frustration when things don't go well is giving you a somewhat skewed perspective. In fact, I guarantee you if you go back and watch the game on mlslive, you'll see that Luke Moore expresses his frustrations more than anyone on the team, Defoe included.

They're just doing what any good player does when he has open space and doesn't get the ball. It's normal, not divisive. The day he actually starts dividing the locker room by saying things publicly is the day to worry.

This isn't it.

What's simple of me? Wondering if there is any tension between teammates while hoping there isn't? Ok..

Most people tend not to be worried about it, I was unaware he has a history of being so demonstrative but because of this thread I now know that he has done this in the past so thank you to those who have pointed this out.

As for Bradley and Osorio showing frustration there is no way they display it as much as Defoe, nor does Moore. In fact Bradley is the classiest guy on the pitch always and even if someone misses the most basic pass he just tracks back to defend...no berating.

Waggy
08-26-2014, 05:24 AM
Threads like this are why I'm not an active board member anymore. Are you fucking kidding me?! As a fanbase people are STILL trying to find bad things to look at and talk about? STILL?! For fucks sake. I'm absolutely flabbergasted this thread exists. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul

Pookie
08-26-2014, 11:14 AM
Ok so one more.

Waggy, I think that more people don't post here because of the overall reaction to ideas and questions posted.

In this example the OP actually poses a question... "What do you guys think..."

The facts are that Defoe does appear frustrated and not that long ago made international headlines for ripping the ball out of Gilberto's hand. Asking a question like that isn't over the top. It's not trolling. It's simply something to talk about.

If guys want game threads that involve 10 people with the same ideas, I guess continue on.

----

To the OP,

Do I think it matters? Don't know really and it really only matters if it matters to the players.

I do know that as a coach I would not want players acting like it.

Maybe as a result, Defoe probably won't achieve the same Toronto sports status as equally competitive players like Roy Halliday, Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour or Pinball Clemons. Guys who generally didn't show up their teammates in public.

In TFC terms, I think that DeRo will thought of as the team's best leader to-date. Air cheques and post game 2009 NY camera dodging aside, he spoke out publicly on behalf of his teammates about issues such as grass vs turf and how many players struggled to find accommodation and travel in Toronto with no help from the team. His local charity work is without question.

Defoe to his credit actually does a fair amount of charity work that seems to go unnoticed. Star rep player(s) aside, people in general just don't warm up to fighting over the ball type incident(s).

A bigger issue for me is Defoe's contract and injury history. I simply don't think his availability will get better over time. The opportunity cost of keeping that contract will likely hold the team back. His DP slot could be better used.

I'd go further but I know where that discussion ends, at least around here.

Fort York Redcoat
08-26-2014, 11:32 AM
Ok so one more.

Waggy, I think that more people don't post here because of the overall reaction to ideas and questions posted.

In this example the OP actually poses a question... "What do you guys think..."

The facts are that Defoe does appear frustrated and not that long ago made international headlines for ripping the ball out of Gilberto's hand. Asking a question like that isn't over the top. It's not trolling. It's simply something to talk about.

If guys want game threads that involve 10 people with the same ideas, I guess continue on.

----

To the OP,

Do I think it matters? Don't know really and it really only matters if it matters to the players.

I do know that as a coach I would not want players acting like it.

Maybe as a result, Defoe probably won't achieve the same Toronto sports status as equally competitive players like Roy Halliday, Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour or Pinball Clemons. Guys who generally didn't show up their teammates in public.

In TFC terms, I think that DeRo will thought of as the team's best leader to-date. Air cheques and post game 2009 NY camera dodging aside, he spoke out publicly on behalf of his teammates about issues such as grass vs turf and how many players struggled to find accommodation and travel in Toronto with no help from the team. His local charity work is without question.

Defoe to his credit actually does a fair amount of charity work that seems to go unnoticed. Star rep player(s) aside, people in general just don't warm up to fighting over the ball type incident(s).

A bigger issue for me is Defoe's contract and injury history. I simply don't think his availability will get better over time. The opportunity cost of keeping that contract will likely hold the team back. His DP slot could be better used.

I'd go further but I know where that discussion ends, at least around here.


Welcome back, Pook.

And, as with the other thread, it goes on as people keep posting civil.


Everyone in the locker room likes Defoe. If you're going to ask me for my source you won't get one, so you can take it or leave it.

However the attitude problems often attributed to him on this board is inaccurate. This is as silly as the Gilberto thread and will likely veer in the same direction. I think if he voices his opinion publicly that the caliber of play of his team mates is inferior, then this discussion has merit. Until then, this is pure speculation.

People are animated, if his team mates haven't said anything, and he hasn't said anything then I'm not sure why this is a thing.


There have been three constants in Defoe's career since I watched him join west ham as a teenager from Charlton... 1. Tight Hamstrings 2. Gesticulating at his teammates 3. SCORING GOALS... so nothing new here...

While this informs on the subject it by no means shuts down convo surrounding it. Thanks for the input.

Red4ever
08-26-2014, 11:46 AM
While this informs on the subject it by no means shuts down convo surrounding it. Thanks for the input.

No idea why I was tagged or what this post implies . that nothing is too miniscule to make a mole hill out of? Good to know.

Fort York Redcoat
08-26-2014, 12:04 PM
No idea why I was tagged or what this post implies . that nothing is too miniscule to make a mole hill out of? Good to know.

I quoted you for the info into the discussion you provided. My thanks was genuine.

Canary10
08-26-2014, 12:20 PM
I'm not sure why having your opinion criticized by a lot of people on the board constitutes a shutting down of debate. Maybe it just means that the majority of people don't share that opinion.

shwade
08-26-2014, 12:50 PM
Ok so one more.

Waggy, I think that more people don't post here because of the overall reaction to ideas and questions posted.

In this example the OP actually poses a question... "What do you guys think..."

The facts are that Defoe does appear frustrated and not that long ago made international headlines for ripping the ball out of Gilberto's hand. Asking a question like that isn't over the top. It's not trolling. It's simply something to talk about.

If guys want game threads that involve 10 people with the same ideas, I guess continue on.

----

To the OP,

Do I think it matters? Don't know really and it really only matters if it matters to the players.

I do know that as a coach I would not want players acting like it.

Maybe as a result, Defoe probably won't achieve the same Toronto sports status as equally competitive players like Roy Halliday, Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour or Pinball Clemons. Guys who generally didn't show up their teammates in public.

In TFC terms, I think that DeRo will thought of as the team's best leader to-date. Air cheques and post game 2009 NY camera dodging aside, he spoke out publicly on behalf of his teammates about issues such as grass vs turf and how many players struggled to find accommodation and travel in Toronto with no help from the team. His local charity work is without question.

Defoe to his credit actually does a fair amount of charity work that seems to go unnoticed. Star rep player(s) aside, people in general just don't warm up to fighting over the ball type incident(s).

A bigger issue for me is Defoe's contract and injury history. I simply don't think his availability will get better over time. The opportunity cost of keeping that contract will likely hold the team back. His DP slot could be better used.

I'd go further but I know where that discussion ends, at least around here.

Thank you for your response Pookie. Not sure why people got all up in arms over a few observations and a question about his attitude but it's nice that some people can keep it civil without the OMG TROLL, BLOCKED!

My concern over his attitude stems largely from my fear that maybe he's realizing he made a mistake and doesn't like it here. But a few have pointed out that this is a constant in his career so I guess all is dandy.

Red4ever
08-26-2014, 01:30 PM
it's nice that some people can keep it civil without the OMG TROLL, BLOCKED! .


That's awfully simple of you.


Oh no. What are we going to do without your opinion?

Don't pretend you have kept anything civil. You've raised a point, admitted it was an assumption yet still hold animosity when very few people have agreed with you. The initial post was meant to be incendiary and that's where you have led us.

Pookie
08-26-2014, 01:56 PM
Don't pretend you have kept anything civil. You've raised a point, admitted it was an assumption yet still hold animosity when very few people have agreed with you. The initial post was meant to be incendiary and that's where you have led us.

I don't think ripping the ball out of Gilberto's hand and the international press it received was an assumption... more of a fact is it not?

As for incendiary on his part, I won't comment.

I will say though it takes two. And in related news I chose not to respond your PM.

Red4ever
08-26-2014, 02:12 PM
I don't think ripping the ball out of Gilberto's hand and the international press it received was an assumption... more of a fact is it not?

I will say though it takes two. And in related news I chose not to respond your PM.

my bad, I was under the impression you quit the board. Did you not quit the board? Cause there was a big thread where you quit the board.

Fort York Redcoat
08-26-2014, 02:28 PM
I don't think ripping the ball out of Gilberto's hand and the international press it received was an assumption... more of a fact is it not?

As for incendiary on his part, I won't comment.

I will say though it takes two. And in related news I chose not to respond your PM.


my bad, I was under the impression you quit the board. Did you not quit the board? Cause there was a big thread where you quit the board.

Before this goes further into personal flaming I'd like to point out that any member or user can take a break, especially if they feel they need it.

shwade
08-26-2014, 04:20 PM
Don't pretend you have kept anything civil. You've raised a point, admitted it was an assumption yet still hold animosity when very few people have agreed with you. The initial post was meant to be incendiary and that's where you have led us.

Please. That's when people have come in here with their sensitivity and those were DIRECT responses on my part. So good job on trying to twist my responses. As for you constantly claiming that the post was meant to be incendiary...well you keep believing that if it makes you feel better.

Pookie
08-31-2014, 07:37 AM
With the players playing disinterested football and Nelsen and Bez having a little spat, suddenly this thread might not be as off the mark as a contributing factor as some have suggested.

Fort York Redcoat
08-31-2014, 10:46 AM
With the players playing disinterested football and Nelsen and Bez having a little spat, suddenly this thread might not be as off the mark as a contributing factor as some have suggested.

Feel free to expand.

With him out of the lineup you think he has more influence?

Pookie
08-31-2014, 11:11 AM
What's to expand?

Long season.

Lots of room for disagreement.

A few incidents we know about (Bez and Nelsen, Defoe and Gilberto).

Team playing flat.

Manager and Coach not on same page.

Results not there.

Something is disruptive if you believe this team is better than it is showing.

Lots of possible reasons. Defoe's attitude may or may not be a factor but certainly a consideration despite "insider" opinion. No?

Or is it all roses?

Fort York Redcoat
08-31-2014, 11:30 AM
What's to expand?

Long season.

Lots of room for disagreement.

A few incidents we know about (Bez and Nelsen, Defoe and Gilberto).

Team playing flat.

Manager and Coach not on same page.

Results not there.

Something is disruptive if you believe this team is better than it is showing.

Lots of possible reasons. Defoe's attitude may or may not be a factor but certainly a consideration despite "insider" opinion. No?

Or is it all roses?

Contributing factor.

All depends on your opinion to the level of contribution to that discord. I don't see him as focal point for it which would be more of the indication of this op.

shwade
08-31-2014, 02:33 PM
Sorry for trolling guys lulz.

Fort York Redcoat
08-31-2014, 02:34 PM
Sorry for trolling guys lulz.

How so? I thought this was a discussion.

shwade
08-31-2014, 02:40 PM
It was a very legitimate discussion. All I was saying with this thread was that his expressions on field may be a result of him being unhappy here and perhaps having second thoughts which could be disruptive to the team.
The trollz comment was just a response to everyone who accused me of trolling and looking for dirt where there wasn't any.

james
09-02-2014, 01:42 PM
Well as someone posted on here on another thread about how Bale wanted to get traded from Spurs, and Spurs said no. The following season he ended up playing his best year ever with the Spurs. In soccer in Europe these sort of things are probably more common, but it doesn't mean the player will stop trying his hardest with his current team. It may not be what us fans would like to here from Defoe, but this whole thing also may have been blown out of proportion and maybe Defoe was really not making a big deal of this.