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View Full Version : "Puto" and "Douche Bag" - Appropriate?



OgtheDim
06-18-2014, 06:41 PM
I had a guy beside me at the last game shout "Puto" every time their keeper kicked the ball, (he also was screaming for TFC to kick and hurt the other team...all this in front of his family of course, while lamenting the fact that beer wasn't sold at the 80th minute - hopefully he doesn't slide into my area again) I also remember this word coming up during CCL games. Then I was reminded this week when hearing this done by the Mexican supporters that the meaning is unsavoury, to put it mildly.

Seems ESPN is not happy with it, for one. http://www.outsports.com/2014/6/18/5819316/mexican-soccer-fans-puto-gay-slur-world-cup-brazil

In essence, puto is calling somebody a cowardly fag - that's not on, for many reasons.

The league has also had some recent crackdown on "asshole" being shouted after the keepers kick off.

My question - is calling the opposing keeper a douche bag any better then Puto or asshole?

I know football isn't a sport without cursing - I get that. But, I'm uncertain as to whether douche bag is any better.

tfcleeds
06-18-2014, 07:03 PM
Pretty sure this issue has been brought up before. While I think the whole "douchebag" thing is a bit infantile, I don't really have a problem with it. As for the "puto" thing, while I can understand ESPN might not be too happy about it, what are they really going to do, other than block out audio during opposing keeper goal kicks? They sure can't tell 10,000 Mexicans not to do it.

jazzy
06-18-2014, 08:57 PM
I had a guy beside me at the last game shout "Puto" every time their keeper kicked the ball, (he also was screaming for TFC to kick and hurt the other team...all this in front of his family of course, while lamenting the fact that beer wasn't sold at the 80th minute - hopefully he doesn't slide into my area again) I also remember this word coming up during CCL games. Then I was reminded this week when hearing this done by the Mexican supporters that the meaning is unsavoury, to put it mildly.

Seems ESPN is not happy with it, for one. http://www.outsports.com/2014/6/18/5819316/mexican-soccer-fans-puto-gay-slur-world-cup-brazil

In essence, puto is calling somebody a cowardly fag - that's not on, for many reasons.

The league has also had some recent crackdown on "asshole" being shouted after the keepers kick off.

My question - is calling the opposing keeper a douche bag any better then Puto or asshole?

I know football isn't a sport without cursing - I get that. But, I'm uncertain as to whether douche bag is any better.

you're right of course but it can only get worse..................just guessing

prizby
06-18-2014, 09:05 PM
vancouver fans (i think) took an interesting angle on YSA...now it's you suck wanker

if we are going to question this, then we should also question the who's your girlfriend/father referee chant too, no?

Ossington Mental Youth
06-18-2014, 09:05 PM
Always thought puto meant whore. Won't use that word again

Shakes McQueen
06-18-2014, 09:09 PM
If that's what "puto" means, then it's a gay slur. "Douchebag" isn't really a slur - it's calling someone a bag for douching, unless I'm missing some sort of subtext?

Wagner
06-18-2014, 09:11 PM
Urban Dictionary definitions of "Puto"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=puto

I don't think "Douche Bag" is that bad, IMO

MartinUtd
06-18-2014, 09:15 PM
I thought they were saying "juicebox"

RealG-TFC
06-18-2014, 09:18 PM
Puto, at least to me, is just the masculine version of whore. I mean its still isn't a pretty word by any means but I wouldn't say it's overtly anti-homosexual. That's more like "maricon" if we remember the scandal when the ex-jay Yunel Escobar wrote on his face.

denime
06-19-2014, 05:42 AM
Fuck ESPN and American double morality standards.

Fort York Redcoat
06-19-2014, 07:40 AM
Puto, at least to me, is just the masculine version of whore. I mean its still isn't a pretty word by any means but I wouldn't say it's overtly anti-homosexual. That's more like "maricon" if we remember the scandal when the ex-jay Yunel Escobar wrote on his face.

It seems to be a synonym for maricon or has become one.

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2010/04/01/puto_a_final.pdf_600_.jpg


Unacceptable term.

Compare now to the level of offense to call someone a douchebag. An article for cleaning a part of the body. Pretty different.

http://www.cavemancircus.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/december/douchebags/douchebags_2.jpg

ryan
06-19-2014, 07:50 AM
Not that I'm against what we're discussing here, but man do I tire of the whole "everything is offensive" movement.

What's next? Lets ban "who are ya!" because it offends people with dementia?

eustacchio
06-19-2014, 07:58 AM
vancouver fans (i think) took an interesting angle on YSA...now it's you suck wanker

if we are going to question this, then we should also question the who's your girlfriend/father referee chant too, no?

...and the tic-tac-tabernac chant?

Fort York Redcoat
06-19-2014, 08:00 AM
Not that I'm against what we're discussing here, but man do I tire of the whole "everything is offensive" movement.

What's next? Lets ban "who are ya!" because it offends people with dementia?


Anyone the least bit introspective as well.

I mean Who REALLY ARE WE? Like, for real...

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101129133349/winniethepooh/images/2/27/Eeyore.jpg

Abou Sky
06-19-2014, 08:07 AM
Gay/racist/sexist slurs aren't cool.

I kind of hate the term 'pussy' because I have seen two kids born, and if you are trying to refer to someone being weak, trust me, that isn't the body part to pick.

Anyway, as far as 'appropriate' goes, everything has a time and place. Let's keep soccer games one of those places ;-)

Globetrotter
06-19-2014, 08:22 AM
I was at a Bills-Cowboys game, and essentially made a giant bright yellow poncho that covered my whole body (in an attempt to get on tv for monday night football). In giant letters on the poncho i had written "ROMO SUCKS". The sheriffs brought me down to the field and in their own polite way said that if I don't take it off immediately I can watch the game from outside the stadium.

They didn't like the word "sucks".

I couldn't fit "ROMO ISN'T AS GOOD AS POTENTIALLY THE NEXT POSSIBLE CHOICE" onto the poncho, so I went for "sucks".

I still don't know if I was on MNF.

OgtheDim
06-19-2014, 08:30 AM
IMHO:

The line I don't want to see crossed is sexist/homophobic stuff.

Puto is offensive. Its like calling somebody on the pitch a fag, as a slag off.

Douchebag...not an issue in my mind.

Asshole...that's just juvenile.


Yeah, its all subjective.


Puto might be going to come up in this world cup as an issue - the journalists are getting restless down there and looking for something to discuss.

Today is "goodbye Spain" day.

Tomorrow will be either "goodbye England, again" or "Suarez - poor man" day.

They will run out of stuff to discuss, and there are a lot of American/UK press down there.

C.Ronaldo
06-19-2014, 09:10 AM
technically puta is a whore

therefore puto must be a male whore

Because some cultures choose to use it homo-sexually, doesn't mean the rest of us cant use it. Although I have never heard it used in a gay slur.

Are you going to tell brits and aussies not to call cigarettes fags?

enough with the nanny state. Educate people to respect each other, thats as far as we should go.

Fort York Redcoat
06-19-2014, 09:16 AM
technically puta is a whore

therefore puto must be a male whore

Because some cultures choose to use it homo-sexually, doesn't mean the rest of us cant use it.

Are you going to tell brits and aussies not to call cigarettes fags?

enough with the nanny state. Educated people to respect each other, thats as far as we should go.

Brits and Aussies aren't using that term derogatorily.

Whore is also derogatory but why use it's counterpart if it was commonly mistaken for an unacceptable term? Why not just use whore?

World Pride is here. Don't make us look homophobic, please. It's not a nanny state to not want to sound like absolute scum.

Suds
06-19-2014, 09:19 AM
Anyone the least bit introspective as well.

I mean Who REALLY ARE WE? Like, for real...




Great ... now my day is screwed. I have no idea who I am.



Douchebag - not sure how someone would links this to being a homophobic slur or anything else. Keep it.

jabbronies
06-19-2014, 09:21 AM
In 110 we saw "Twat, you're shit...aaaahhhhhhh"
I think Douchebag, Asshole, Bastard and Twat are all fine words to use at a football match.

I use Cunt when women are not present.

Puto - I personally won't use it. I find it hard to bring myself to use homophobic slangs against other people, although I have been known to sing a song or two using the term "Batty Man" knowing full well what it means.

I know a ton of others who use homophobic slang pretty loosely.

Common sense says slurs are bad and to use them will probably offend someone.
However, most people see themselves as "open and accepting" to the LGBT community and feel because of this they can use the term in a way that is not meant to be homophobic.

Nodoubtguy
06-19-2014, 09:21 AM
Ugh....there are guys in 115 who throw out pussy, fag, and cocksucker, and even the occasional N-word. Makes me ashamed to even be in the same section as them.

C.Ronaldo
06-19-2014, 09:24 AM
Brits and Aussies aren't using that term derogatorily.

Whore is also derogatory but why use it's counterpart if it was commonly mistaken for an unacceptable term? Why not just use whore?

World Pride is here. Don't make us look homophobic, please. It's not a nanny state to not want to sound like absolute scum.


Like I said, I've never heard of it used as a reference to homosexuals. That article is the first time I've heard of it used in that way. Read the comments on that article, clearly not all people that speak Spanish thinks nor uses it as a homosexual remark.

Yagbod
06-19-2014, 09:27 AM
Sorry, I can't remember the source, but I read just a few days ago that 'douchbag' is a very old term used to describe overly promiscuous women.

Red CB Toronto
06-19-2014, 09:37 AM
We are all here to support the Reds and watch them win, let's keep doing that.

billyfly
06-19-2014, 10:11 AM
For the record "puto" in Portuguese is really used in the context of little punk.

You'd call a young boy "Hey Puto".

Jack
06-19-2014, 10:57 AM
technically puta is a whore

therefore puto must be a male whore

Because some cultures choose to use it homo-sexually, doesn't mean the rest of us cant use it. Although I have never heard it used in a gay slur.

Are you going to tell brits and aussies not to call cigarettes fags?

enough with the nanny state. Educate people to respect each other, thats as far as we should go.
The dictionary definition is "male prostitute", just like "puta" is a "female prostitute", but the usage it is given in all of the Spanish dialects to which I've been exposed (various regions of Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Spain, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala...and others I can't remember off the top of my head) is as a gay slur, just like puta is used to describe a woman in derogatory terms (we would translate them to "faggot/fag" and "slut" in Canada). You can't separate the dictionary definition from the day to day usage of the term, no matter how much you'd like to try. Aussies and Brits can call their cigarettes fags, but that is because their dialect of English differs from ours.

In this case, adopting a very offensive term from another language and then trying to justify it by going to the "technical definition" is just not going to work. In fact, your whole premise is flawed, because you are using the term in a context where it doesn't apply, unless you know the keeper is a male prostitute. Since he probably isn't and you want to use the term as an insult, you are using the context of the word which translates not to "male prostitute", but to "faggot". This is why you can't translate languages word for word without context.

trane
06-19-2014, 11:04 AM
Fuck it, the moment people ban swearing at footy games is the moment the sport dies.

Yes, racism is an exception for many reasons, but other then that, say what the fuck you want. I will.

You are saying it to offend. Offending is the point. Now I never personally use homophobic terms, it was just never a big part of the my swear word, repertoire.

ryan
06-19-2014, 11:10 AM
Fuck it, the moment people ban swearing at footy games is the moment the sport dies.

Yes, racism is an exception for many reasons, but other then that, say what the fuck you want. I will.

You are saying it to offend. Offending is the point. Now I never personally use homophobic terms, it was just never a big part of the my swear word, repertoire.

Which brings up a good question.

Does one have the right to be offensive?

Jack
06-19-2014, 11:10 AM
Fuck it, the moment people ban swearing at footy games is the moment the sport dies.

Yes, racism is an exception for many reasons, but other then that, say what the fuck you want. I will.

You are saying it to offend. Offending is the point. Now I never personally use homophobic terms, it was just never a big part of the my swear word, repertoire.
I don't have a problem with cursing someone out, but homophobic slurs are just not cool. I know people use them, but how is that different than racism? You are basically using a type of person as an insult.

C.Ronaldo
06-19-2014, 11:15 AM
The dictionary definition is "male prostitute", just like "puta" is a "female prostitute", but the usage it is given in all of the Spanish dialects to which I've been exposed (various regions of Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Spain, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala...and others I can't remember off the top of my head) is as a gay slur, just like puta is used to describe a woman in derogatory terms (we would translate them to "faggot/fag" and "slut" in Canada). You can't separate the dictionary definition from the day to day usage of the term, no matter how much you'd like to try. Aussies and Brits can call their cigarettes fags, but that is because their dialect of English differs from ours.

In this case, adopting a very offensive term from another language and then trying to justify it by going to the "technical definition" is just not going to work. In fact, your whole premise is flawed, because you are using the term in a context where it doesn't apply, unless you know the keeper is a male prostitute. Since he probably isn't and you want to use the term as an insult, you are using the context of the word which translates not to "male prostitute", but to "faggot". This is why you can't translate languages word for word without context.

Jack, fair point on the cigarettes comparison. where I was going with that is that a word can have many meanings

But puto isnt always used in a homosexual context. Its origins aren't homosexual.

I'm 100% against using homosexual slurs. But really where do you stop with it.

We cant ban every word in the dictionary, especially of a different language.

Would you ban the use of "you kick like a girl"

Something is always going to offend someone.


It is a private stadium event though, so if this was MLSE they can do whatever they want.

Jack
06-19-2014, 11:25 AM
Jack, fair point on the cigarettes comparison. where I was going with that is that a word can have many meanings

But puto isnt always used in a homosexual context. Its origins aren't homosexual.

I'm 100% against using homosexual slurs. But really where do you stop with it.

We cant ban every word in the dictionary, especially of a different language.

Would you ban the use of "you kick like a girl"

Something is always going to offend someone.


It is a private stadium event though, so if this was MLSE they can do whatever they want.
When used as an insult, I would say that puto is almost always used in a homosexual context. I have heard it used to call someone a "man-whore" on a few occasions, but that was amongst friends and co-workers.

I agree that, when the intent is to offend, someone is going to be offended by what you're saying. My point is, why do we draw the line at racial, but not homosexual insults? Both use what a person is as an insult. I'll go after the player, his ugly face, his mother, his ability to play football, the fact that he is a shame to his family for being so bad etc. and I've said some pretty nasty things, no question (It got me the finger from the Honduran keeper in Montreal a few years back g:D). I just don't do racial/homosexual slurs.

OgtheDim
06-19-2014, 11:34 AM
Its city owned property. They can ban the Barenaked Ladies and Georgio Mammolitti can take pictures at all ages raves, if he wants. :)


As to why I raised the issue, in a diverse city, we are better to discuss things like this and agree to disagree then to not discuss at all - TFC fans are probably the most diverse in the city (maybe tied with the Raptors). Some person grows up yelling puto and just thinks that what's you do. Stands beside the guy/gal who is gay and has no clue what he is saying may mean something. I got an opinion but that's not an easy thing to square for all concerned. Cultural values appopin.

Who the heck said living with so many cultures was supposed to be easy?

Talk, yell, curse, work it all fucking out and while doing that get on with living and cheer for the Reds - that should be the city motto cause its what we do each day. And its why I love this city.....cause we ain't killing each other over this stuff, like to try everybody's food and enjoy the night/family life with everybody.

C.Ronaldo
06-19-2014, 12:07 PM
Its city owned property. They can ban the Barenaked Ladies and Georgio Mammolitti can take pictures at all ages raves, if he wants. :)


As to why I raised the issue, in a diverse city, we are better to discuss things like this and agree to disagree then to not discuss at all - TFC fans are probably the most diverse in the city (maybe tied with the Raptors). Some person grows up yelling puto and just thinks that what's you do. Stands beside the guy/gal who is gay and has no clue what he is saying may mean something. I got an opinion but that's not an easy thing to square for all concerned. Cultural values appopin.

Who the heck said living with so many cultures was supposed to be easy?

Talk, yell, curse, work it all fucking out and while doing that get on with living and cheer for the Reds - that should be the city motto cause its what we do each day. And its why I love this city.....cause we ain't killing each other over this stuff, like to try everybody's food and enjoy the night/family life with everybody.

Slow clap clap clap

as an aside (or derailment)

Is today take offence day?

World Cup: Google's Brazilian favela doodle slammed as offensive (http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2014/06/world-cup-googles-brazilian-favela-doodle-slammed-as-offensive.html)

jabbronies
06-19-2014, 12:15 PM
Slow clap clap clap

as an aside (or derailment)

Is today take offence day?

World Cup: Google's Brazilian favela doodle slammed as offensive (http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2014/06/world-cup-googles-brazilian-favela-doodle-slammed-as-offensive.html)


Actually when I first say that I thought - wow, that's a ballsy move.
It glorifies the extremely poor living conditions in Brazil IMO and coming from a rich and powerful corporate entity - shouldn't have been touched IMO

trane
06-19-2014, 12:43 PM
I don't have a problem with cursing someone out, but homophobic slurs are just not cool. I know people use them, but how is that different than racism? You are basically using a type of person as an insult.

That is why I have never really used them. Unless you mean the term 'gay" as uncool, but that was from the days, that the words "pure" and "gay" meant "un-cool" to a 10 years old.

razor787
06-19-2014, 12:45 PM
Slow clap clap clap

as an aside (or derailment)

Is today take offence day?

World Cup: Google's Brazilian favela doodle slammed as offensive (http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2014/06/world-cup-googles-brazilian-favela-doodle-slammed-as-offensive.html)



I see where everyone is coming from, but at the same time, favelas are part of Brazil. I view it as them making a doodle of another piece of the country and it's culture. It may not be the nicest piece of the country, but ignoring them won't make them go away.

trane
06-19-2014, 12:45 PM
Which brings up a good question.

Does one have the right to be offensive?

You cannot protect yourself from the world, in that way, the world is sometimes offensive. I do not like making people feel bad, but during footy matches I will, its part of the game.

trane
06-19-2014, 12:46 PM
FREE SPEECH=FREEDOM OF THOUGHT AND EXPRESSION. Once you get rid of that it is no longer a free society.

Phil
06-19-2014, 01:13 PM
I don't use the word because I don't properly understand it. Be aware of the language you use. I think we should all use colourful and free language but being homophobic or racist isn't part of my personal ambition. The two in my mind are the same - they are both based in discrimination.

Abou Sky
06-19-2014, 01:40 PM
World Pride is here. Don't make us look homophobic, please. It's not a nanny state to not want to sound like absolute scum.

This...

prizby
06-19-2014, 01:41 PM
i'm pretty sure i have heard puto/puta used at #canMNT games when we would play a latino country

ryan
06-19-2014, 01:50 PM
That is why I have never really used them. Unless you mean the term 'gay" as uncool, but that was from the days, that the words "pure" and "gay" meant "un-cool" to a 10 years old.

You're sparking all kinds of debate questions for me:

Q: Why is alright to shrug off an Aussie/Brit for calling a cig a fag, but it's damned to continue to use the word gay in the context of being lame or uncool?

Abou Sky
06-19-2014, 02:30 PM
You're sparking all kinds of debate questions for me:

Q: Why is alright to shrug off an Aussie/Brit for calling a cig a fag, but it's damned to continue to use the word gay in the context of being lame or uncool?

Because the etymology of calling a smoke a fag comes from the term used for twigs, saying something uncool is gay comes from an intended derogatory term for homosexuals.

C.Ronaldo
06-19-2014, 02:37 PM
Because the etymology of calling a smoke a fag comes from the term used for twigs, saying something uncool is gay comes from an intended derogatory term for homosexuals.


100% agreed

but with regards to 1990's lingo, the word fag was the rudest and has the most negative connotation.

Shakes McQueen
06-19-2014, 03:51 PM
I don't have a problem with cursing someone out, but homophobic slurs are just not cool. I know people use them, but how is that different than racism? You are basically using a type of person as an insult.

Yep. I find it odd that it's apparently self-evident that hurling the n-word at someone is beyond the pale, yet when it comes to a potential gay slur, people are suddenly all "weeoo weeoo, here's comes the language police! more liberal PC bullshit!"

This conversation isn't about what people have the "right" to say - I believe people have the right to be offensive idiots, just like I agree people don't have some innate right to not be offended. This is supposed to be a conversation among adults, about what we, as reasonable people, think it is acceptable to call someone.

Personally? Swear all you want at a football match, but cut out the slurs - racist, homophobic, or otherwise. Is this word really so sacred to anyone here?

jazzy
06-19-2014, 03:58 PM
its basic always think when using any term , and the context , any word out of hatred or meant to cause hurt is plain stupid , amongst friends not so much.....simply think , it's not that hard........

Shakes McQueen
06-19-2014, 04:00 PM
I don't use the word because I don't properly understand it. Be aware of the language you use. I think we should all use colourful and free language but being homophobic or racist isn't part of my personal ambition. The two in my mind are the same - they are both based in discrimination.

There's a massive pantheon of swear words available to us all, that don't require us to reinforce a slur against some subset of the population.

WestStandGeoff
06-19-2014, 04:06 PM
I'll go after the player, his ugly face... I just don't do racial/homosexual slurs.

I find this an odd distinction. Why do you find it OK to attack the way someone looks? Unless you're talking about laughing at a really horrible mullet, or telling Ali Gerba he looks like he ate too many pies, it comes down to genetics. So it's really a subtle racial attack, whether you intend it to be or not.

Abou Sky
06-19-2014, 04:44 PM
It's funny because this discussion remind me of my kids asking 'why?' 'why?' 'why?'

flamehawk
06-19-2014, 05:12 PM
Jack, fair point on the cigarettes comparison. where I was going with that is that a word can have many meanings

But puto isnt always used in a homosexual context. Its origins aren't homosexual.

I'm 100% against using homosexual slurs. But really where do you stop with it.

We cant ban every word in the dictionary, especially of a different language.

Would you ban the use of "you kick like a girl"

Something is always going to offend someone.


It is a private stadium event though, so if this was MLSE they can do whatever they want.

It's not the intention that counts though .. if we are serious about being inclusive and expanding the sport to fans of all stripes (as well as being committed to anti-oppression) we need to be aware that certain words carry connotations that may not be as intended .. doesn't excuse us of being critical in our word choice.

And to people claiming that 'society is too PC' ... it's not a call to be PC, I'd hate if someone does something to be PC as people are acting simply out of social conventions. There should be a genuine intent to root out discrimination .. it's not about 'banning words'. Let's focus on challenging opposing teams with chants relevant to football, vs being lazy and falling back on sexist/homophobic language.

Red CB Toronto
06-19-2014, 05:34 PM
For once and all no one in our family should ever use such terms.

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/fifa-investigates-discriminatory-chanting-by-mexico-supporters-061914

Abou Sky
06-19-2014, 05:47 PM
What kills me is that FIFA didn't take the world cup away from Russia, and they are planning on having the cup in Qatar. Both of whom have very poor human rights records.

Want to talk the talk? Then walk the walk.

tfcleeds
06-19-2014, 08:16 PM
What kills me is that FIFA didn't take the world cup away from Russia, and they are planning on having the cup in Qatar. Both of whom have very poor human rights records.

Want to talk the talk? Then walk the walk.

Yes, it's a complete joke. I doubt it will happen, but I hope FIFA revisits their decisions on both those hosts.

billyfly
06-19-2014, 08:28 PM
Putos and raparigas:
These words are tricky. While in Portugal they are innocent terms, in Brazil they are swear words. Puto means child or boy in Portugal but in Brazil it is generally used as an adjective meaning profligate, irritated or angry. In Portugal a girl or young woman is called a rapariga, whereas in Brazil this word is offensive and means whore or slut.

The funniest is "Bicha" in Portugal means a line-up and in Brazilian it does mean homosexual...lol

werewolf
06-19-2014, 09:46 PM
This thread is worse than Iran v. Nigeria.

Shakes McQueen
06-20-2014, 01:41 AM
Yes, it's a complete joke. I doubt it will happen, but I hope FIFA revisits their decisions on both those hosts.

Hundreds of (essentially) slaves are dying, building the Qatar World Cup, and it has barely even registered with FIFA. Wouldn't count on it.

trane
06-20-2014, 04:25 AM
Yep. I find it odd that it's apparently self-evident that hurling the n-word at someone is beyond the pale, yet when it comes to a potential gay slur, people are suddenly all "weeoo weeoo, here's comes the language police! more liberal PC bullshit!"

This conversation isn't about what people have the "right" to say - I believe people have the right to be offensive idiots, just like I agree people don't have some innate right to not be offended. This is supposed to be a conversation among adults, about what we, as reasonable people, think it is acceptable to call someone.

Personally? Swear all you want at a football match, but cut out the slurs - racist, homophobic, or otherwise. Is this word really so sacred to anyone here?

I do not disagree with this statement. As I said I tend to swear allot, but gay slurs have never been a part of my lexicon, maybe because I have always been very neutral on the issue, i just do not give a shit if someone is gay or not. I have never used the word puto. But there is something that makes me uneasy about such conversations. I am generally ok when the group decides how individuals within the group should interact with each over, it is needed to ensure order within the group, I tend to get uneasy when that conversation extends to any speech/expression. Having said that ultimately if your expression and thought is clearly contrary to the values of the group then there is an issue.

Fort York Redcoat
06-20-2014, 06:57 AM
This thread is worse than Iran v. Nigeria.

I could defend watching Iran v Nigeria.

flamehawk
06-20-2014, 07:03 AM
This thread is worse than Iran v. Nigeria.


Didn't think that was a bad game at al :S

mook-life
06-20-2014, 07:56 AM
I don't know why this is an issue at all its just words and it has not like we have the whole section yelling faggot faggot faggot

Phil
06-20-2014, 08:07 AM
I don't know why this is an issue at all its just words and it has not like we have the whole section yelling faggot faggot faggot

Its like a mini off season, so things get accelerated.

LOL, I did learn what that word meant and it seems clear that it should be avoided. I have a lot of other colourful language to use if bothered.

On the bigger picture, doesn't everyone find everything is the same all over the MLS? Every group yells *something* after the keeper kicks, the songs are pretty much all the same - just insert team name here - I wonder if anyone on the pitch notices anything specific or its all just noise?

Don't get me wrong, I love being engaged and passionate during games, I just notice it more and more with the MLS live app.

Suds
06-20-2014, 08:30 AM
I don't know why this is an issue at all its just words and it has not like we have the whole section yelling faggot faggot faggot


I don't think the OP said this is an issue at BMO per se. (I don't think anyone else is saying it is an issue either) They were just bringing something up for discussion based on an ESPN article around language at football matches.

tfcleeds
06-20-2014, 08:52 AM
I see where everyone is coming from, but at the same time, favelas are part of Brazil. I view it as them making a doodle of another piece of the country and it's culture. It may not be the nicest piece of the country, but ignoring them won't make them go away.

Exactly. Favelas, as unfortunate as they may be, are very much a part of the urban landscape of Brazil. Geez, people will be offended by anything. I bet the people complaining on Twitter are just taking a break from sipping on their $5 lattes as they type. If these people were really concerned about poverty, they'd do something about it more than feverish typing away on their $200 cellphone.

C.Ronaldo
06-20-2014, 09:06 AM
Putos and raparigas:
These words are tricky. While in Portugal they are innocent terms, in Brazil they are swear words. Puto means child or boy in Portugal but in Brazil it is generally used as an adjective meaning profligate, irritated or angry. In Portugal a girl or young woman is called a rapariga, whereas in Brazil this word is offensive and means whore or slut.

The funniest is "Bicha" in Portugal means a line-up and in Brazilian it does mean homosexual...lol

Thanks, for some reason rapriga has never home up with the Brasilian side of the family. Good thing to keep in mind. (and I thought Fila is the queue? In madeira it is used)


But this is an example of how words can have so many meanings.

And phrases to

in Madeira, a cup of coffee with half a cup of milk is a chinesa (a chinese girl). Which is kind of awkward now that chinese people are moving there.

or french shepard's pie, pate chinoi.


Concrete derogatory comments should be stamped out, but when words have multiple meanings, and span multiple languages, you have to take a look at its intent.

flatpicker
06-20-2014, 09:11 AM
I
On the bigger picture, doesn't everyone find everything is the same all over the MLS? Every group yells *something* after the keeper kicks, the songs are pretty much all the same - just insert team name here - I wonder if anyone on the pitch notices anything specific or its all just noise?

Don't get me wrong, I love being engaged and passionate during games, I just notice it more and more with the MLS live app.


I completely agree. When I hear the supporters in other cities, they sound just like us (but louder!). I've often thought that there are some songs/chants that we should stop doing, and start thinking about other fun and fresh ideas that might engage a greater number of people at home.

Phil
06-20-2014, 09:13 AM
Exactly. Favelas, as unfortunate as they may be, are very much a part of the urban landscape of Brazil. Geez, people will be offended by anything. I bet the people complaining on Twitter are just taking a break from sipping on their $5 lattes as they type. If these people were really concerned about poverty, they'd do something about it more than feverish typing away on their $200 cellphone.

Well, I read the objection to be more about Google capitalizing on the poor vs a comment on the poor existing.

Good glossed over generalizations though! Smartphones cost way more than $200 :D

I am just having a Friday laugh.

C.Ronaldo
06-20-2014, 09:17 AM
For once and all no one in our family should ever use such terms.

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/fifa-investigates-discriminatory-chanting-by-mexico-supporters-061914


"The allegations centre around the use of the word 'puto' which translates into 'whore' and has been heard in games in Fortaleza and Nata."

No mention of it being homosexual in nature, but if it is decided by FIFA that is, and we are in agreement, then no one should be using it.

C.Ronaldo
06-20-2014, 09:29 AM
I completely agree. When I hear the supporters in other cities, they sound just like us (but louder!). I've often thought that there are some songs/chants that we should stop doing, and start thinking about other fun and fresh ideas that might engage a greater number of people at home.


like pantles Wednesdays? oh wait on second thought

WestStandGeoff
06-20-2014, 09:29 AM
Exactly. Favelas, as unfortunate as they may be, are very much a part of the urban landscape of Brazil. Geez, people will be offended by anything. I bet the people complaining on Twitter are just taking a break from sipping on their $5 lattes as they type. If these people were really concerned about poverty, they'd do something about it more than feverish typing away on their $200 cellphone.

LOL - so true! I love how people get so incensed, but do little more than add a #hashtag...

Carts
06-20-2014, 09:43 AM
not that i'm against what we're discussing here, but man do i tire of the whole "everything is offensive" movement.

what's next? Lets ban "who are ya!" because it offends people with dementia?

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!

This just made me LOL in the office... #awesome

And I agree wholeheartedly!

billyfly
06-20-2014, 09:54 AM
So lets get this right - People in Canada from different backgrounds who may or may not speak Spanish or Portuguese are wondering if people that may or may not be Spanish and Portuguese language speakers in a Portuguese speaking country watching a soccer game of teams from countries that may or may not be where they speak Spanish and Portuguese should be using a word that means different things in different contexts depending on the language and country the word is being used in.


Am I right?

Phil
06-20-2014, 10:02 AM
So lets get this right - People in Canada from different backgrounds who may or may not speak Spanish or Portuguese are wondering if people that may or may not be Spanish and Portuguese language speakers in a Portuguese speaking country watching a soccer game of teams from countries that may or may not be where they speak Spanish and Portuguese should be using a word that means different things in different contexts depending on the language and country the word is being used in.


Am I right?

You did sum it up well.

How about this.... if it isn't a word you know or understand, its probably best not to use it, because it could be a slur.

For the words we do know, say them out loud, just know their meaning. :D

Suds
06-20-2014, 10:21 AM
So lets get this right - People in Canada from different backgrounds who may or may not speak Spanish or Portuguese are wondering if people that may or may not be Spanish and Portuguese language speakers in a Portuguese speaking country watching a soccer game of teams from countries that may or may not be where they speak Spanish and Portuguese should be using a word that means different things in different contexts depending on the language and country the word is being used in.


Am I right?


For the first time in your life, you're right! g:D

billyfly
06-20-2014, 10:24 AM
For the first time in your life, you're right! g:D

I had to re-read it a few times to make sure it made sense.

Voodooman
06-20-2014, 10:41 AM
I had to re-read it a few times to make sure it made sense.

You are not the only one aha. Very good point though

ryan
06-20-2014, 10:48 AM
Exactly. Favelas, as unfortunate as they may be, are very much a part of the urban landscape of Brazil. Geez, people will be offended by anything. I bet the people complaining on Twitter are just taking a break from sipping on their $5 lattes as they type. If these people were really concerned about poverty, they'd do something about it more than feverish typing away on their $200 cellphone.

This conversation kind of reminds me of this:



https://i.imgur.com/5fxaKod.gif

https://i.imgur.com/wuv9hAQ.gif

https://i.imgur.com/vcKVnMm.gif

https://i.imgur.com/qzEY3TO.gif

https://i.imgur.com/p8d8CHf.gif

https://i.imgur.com/aEgHNCX.gif






.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.



https://i.imgur.com/SiljAqX.gif


Humans. We're awesome.

Brooker
06-20-2014, 11:44 AM
I remember some idiot in 112 shouting something about South Americans and tacos... or was it beans? I've never seen so many south american heads turn that quick. I think he shit himself.

Beware of your surroundings.

C.Ronaldo
06-20-2014, 02:00 PM
This conversation kind of reminds me of this:



https://i.imgur.com/5fxaKod.gif


Humans. We're awesome.

I got 99 problems but being part of the 99% ain't one (patent pending...gonna be my yachts name)

Shakes McQueen
06-20-2014, 06:31 PM
I do not disagree with this statement. As I said I tend to swear allot, but gay slurs have never been a part of my lexicon, maybe because I have always been very neutral on the issue, i just do not give a shit if someone is gay or not. I have never used the word puto. But there is something that makes me uneasy about such conversations. I am generally ok when the group decides how individuals within the group should interact with each over, it is needed to ensure order within the group, I tend to get uneasy when that conversation extends to any speech/expression. Having said that ultimately if your expression and thought is clearly contrary to the values of the group then there is an issue.

I actually disagree with "hate speech" laws and the like, because I think the best disinfectant for "hate speech", is intelligent speech explaining to that person why they are a fucking idiot.

But as I note - this isn't about what should be legal. Personally, I'd defend someone's right to be a hateful moron in whatever language they want. This is about what we, as mature adults, should think is acceptable to say. Whether you should have the legal right to say the n-word in public, isn't the same as thinking it's completely acceptable to call someone, for a simple example.

I don't call people "puto", because I have (had?) no idea what it means, and I'm not Spanish. But if I knew it was a homophobic slur? I wouldn't use it in a million years.

And it's so unnecessary, because there's such a colourful catalogue of curse words out there, that don't necessitate slurring entire, oppressed subsets of the population. Call someone a dickhead, or a fuckwad, or a piece of shit. Go nuts.

Yagbod
06-21-2014, 12:01 AM
I actually disagree with "hate speech" laws and the like, because I think the best disinfectant for "hate speech", is intelligent speech explaining to that person why they are a fucking idiot.

But as I note - this isn't about what should be legal. Personally, I'd defend someone's right to be a hateful moron in whatever language they want. This is about what we, as mature adults, should think is acceptable to say. Whether you should have the legal right to say the n-word in public, isn't the same as thinking it's completely acceptable to call someone, for a simple example.

I don't call people "puto", because I have (had?) no idea what it means, and I'm not Spanish. But if I knew it was a homophobic slur? I wouldn't use it in a million years.

And it's so unnecessary, because there's such a colourful catalogue of curse words out there, that don't necessitate slurring entire, oppressed subsets of the population. Call someone a dickhead, or a fuckwad, or a piece of shit. Go nuts.

Very well put. Couldn't agree more.

Red CB Toronto
06-21-2014, 12:18 AM
Why would anyone ever want to use language that would hurt someone else is beyond me. Soccer is a fun environment that all should enjoy and doing things that will keep people away is all wrong.

Red CB Toronto
06-21-2014, 12:21 AM
I had a great conversation over a beer with one of soccer's true philosophers in Alexi Lalas, one of the more interesting people I have met and in his mind all should be about love and getting along with all. Supporters, fans and others should all unite as one.

denime
06-21-2014, 07:05 AM
So lets get this right - People in Canada from different backgrounds who may or may not speak Spanish or Portuguese are wondering if people that may or may not be Spanish and Portuguese language speakers in a Portuguese speaking country watching a soccer game of teams from countries that may or may not be where they speak Spanish and Portuguese should be using a word that means different things in different contexts depending on the language and country the word is being used in.


Am I right?


100% spot on.

mook-life
06-21-2014, 08:08 AM
I had a great conversation over a beer with one of soccer's true philosophers in Alexi Lalas, one of the more interesting people I have met and in his mind all should be about love and getting along with all. Supporters, fans and others should all unite as one.


Footy would not be what it is without chirping other teams and throwing out some hate....

JonO
06-21-2014, 09:16 AM
I actually disagree with "hate speech" laws and the like, because I think the best disinfectant for "hate speech", is intelligent speech explaining to that person why they are a fucking idiot.
My understanding is that the hate speech laws are geared to speech inciting hatred, not saying hateful things. So I have no problem with them. Unfortunately, many of those engaged in saying hateful things are either too stupid to understand an intelligent counterpoint or too egotistical to believe they could be wrong...

trane
06-21-2014, 02:00 PM
^ I have not read the hate speech statutes, but from reading hate speech cases, that is what it is about, language that inciting hatred in the senence of persecution against that group of persons. I agree with those laws, because at some point, I would be against someone having speech about harm to any group. The line is blurry between something offensive, which is ok, and something that would insight one individual to harm another. I see both sides of the argument, and it is in many ways the essential conflict between individuals rights and societies inherent right to regulate behavior to ensure order within the group.

Jack
06-23-2014, 10:15 AM
I find this an odd distinction. Why do you find it OK to attack the way someone looks? Unless you're talking about laughing at a really horrible mullet, or telling Ali Gerba he looks like he ate too many pies, it comes down to genetics. So it's really a subtle racial attack, whether you intend it to be or not.
Nice try, but no. g:D

In the case of ugly, it's my opinion of that person's physical appearance, not attacking what the are as a person. It has nothing to do with race or sexuality.

Jack
06-23-2014, 10:23 AM
So lets get this right - People in Canada from different backgrounds who may or may not speak Spanish or Portuguese are wondering if people that may or may not be Spanish and Portuguese language speakers in a Portuguese speaking country watching a soccer game of teams from countries that may or may not be where they speak Spanish and Portuguese should be using a word that means different things in different contexts depending on the language and country the word is being used in.


Am I right?
When a Mexican crowd shouts "PUTO" at a player, it means "FAGGOT" (in our Canadian usage of the term), regardless of what country they are in or what language the player speaks. Just in case there was any doubt in your mind about that particular point. Whether or not the player understands is a different story.

billyfly
06-23-2014, 10:36 AM
When a Mexican crowd shouts "PUTO" at a player, it means "FAGGOT" (in our Canadian usage of the term), regardless of what country they are in or what language the player speaks. Just in case there was any doubt in your mind about that particular point. Whether or not the player understands is a different story.

Still my point stands based on the original post of this thread. What are "we" arguing? Take it up with the Mexicans.

I wouldn't shout "puto" b/c it doest mean to me what Mexican's use it for.

Jack
06-23-2014, 10:40 AM
Still my point stands based on the original post of this thread. What are "we" arguing? Take it up with the Mexicans.

I wouldn't shout "puto" b/c it doest mean to me what Mexican's use it for.
How many threads only refer back to the original post? ;)

But yes, I agree with you that it's not something to shout at TFC games.

ryan
06-23-2014, 03:48 PM
The PUTO chirp is booming as per usual today.

PopePouri
06-23-2014, 04:00 PM
This thread is worse than Iran v. Nigeria.

You mean that this thread sucks ass.....hole.

FluSH
06-26-2014, 10:18 PM
When a Mexican crowd shouts "PUTO" at a player, it means "FAGGOT" (in our Canadian usage of the term), regardless of what country they are in or what language the player speaks. Just in case there was any doubt in your mind about that particular point. Whether or not the player understands is a different story.

It's funny because I have never taken it as a gay slur? More like the male version of a whore, but I also left El Salvador when I was 11 an EL Salvador is not Mexico... Rarely was the word puto even used over there... Words like cerote or culero or pendejo were more widely used.

bottom line not something we will be shouting

Dbl_D
06-27-2014, 12:46 PM
I thought they were saying "juicebox"

ROFL


So lets get this right - People in Canada from different backgrounds who may or may not speak Spanish or Portuguese are wondering if people that may or may not be Spanish and Portuguese language speakers in a Portuguese speaking country watching a soccer game of teams from countries that may or may not be where they speak Spanish and Portuguese should be using a word that means different things in different contexts depending on the language and country the word is being used in.


Am I right?



You did sum it up well.

How about this.... if it isn't a word you know or understand, its probably best not to use it, because it could be a slur.

For the words we do know, say them out loud, just know their meaning. :D


juicebox it is... we all know what that means

and if you've read this thread you can silently and mentally substituted your derogatory word for it and offend none

and still have a good time yelling something at the keeper... ;)

james
07-02-2014, 02:41 PM
meh, its all part of going to soccer games really. Most people don't mean anything by it. Soccer whether it be in Mexico, Canada, England, Argentina, Germany, exc. its often a sport where fans yell, sing, chant all sorts of swear words and insults at opposing fans and players. I feel if you complain about this chant, it makes a whole shit load more of chants and songs and random coments we have done or do questionable, then when it gets to that point you might as well go to a Leafs game where you sit down and shut up, no swearing because little kids and Moms might here it, and the worst thing you could do is say you suck or "BOOOOOO". Ya Soccer chants, they are what they are, but without the banter the atmosphere might just be like a Leafs game.

Suds
07-03-2014, 08:46 AM
Can we agree it will be fine to use it in the context of taking the piss of Espindola on Saturday? ;)

OgtheDim
07-03-2014, 08:55 AM
Fire supporters chanted it last night.

Fort York Redcoat
07-03-2014, 09:30 AM
Fire supporters chanted it last night.

Noticed that.


You won't catch me saying it.

Pint
07-03-2014, 10:00 AM
I will chant and say almost anything at TFC games... swearing does not bother me at all but nothing racist and nothing homophobic in english or any other language will be tolerated.

redisthenewblk
07-03-2014, 10:02 AM
I don't want to be "that woman", however, it think its interesting that some people on this thread are adamantly against using /racial homophobic slurs, but ok with using terms that are derogatory towards women (whether or not we are present doesn't make a difference). Men and women and people of all races, sexualities etc. love to cheer for TFC, so my vote would be to respect everyone. That being said, we don't need to be constantly walking on eggshells and I love a good yell at the keeper. Vancouver uses "You Fat Bastard", I'm cool with "Douchebag" though because it's pretty universal and could offend anyone and everyone ;)

jabbronies
07-03-2014, 10:06 AM
So as long as your comment can offend everyone then it's cool. But if it targets a specific group then it's bad. :)

Time to create some new slurs "Christmahannukwanzadan" style!

redisthenewblk
07-03-2014, 10:08 AM
hahah exactly, lets just work on being universally offensive :)

BBLaw
07-03-2014, 11:02 AM
I will chant and say almost anything at TFC games... swearing does not bother me at all but nothing racist and nothing homophobic in english or any other language will be tolerated.

Why? Swearing can offend someone just as much as something racist or homophobic. Just because it doesn't seem as bad in your mind doesn't mean it's not bad in other peoples minds. Personally I don't find "puto" offensive because in the context it is used in Mexico and what it means there isn't homophobic or racist or any of that other nonsense. Just because it's "translated" here to mean "faggot" doesn't mean it actually means it. The cultures and languages are completely different. In this country, the word "faggot" essentially had the same meaning as "bitch" and was almost never used in a derogatory manner towards the gay population in this country(sort of like how "nigga" is used among friends.) Then a few years ago when the gay community banded together and let the public know that they find that word incredibly offensive, even if it's not used against them, that began the momentum shift to remove it from the day to day language.

Overall, I just think you're just being incredibly oversensitive in regards to "puto" which doesn't surprise me, seeing as it seems like the vast majority of the population is oversensitive to almost everything these days. Hell, the mayor uses Jamaican patois and people call him a racist. Nigel Reed on a World Cup pregame show had a banana and he offered it to Lloyd Barker and there were some people on twitter in an uproar :facepalm:

The moral of the story, no matter what you say or do will offend someone somewhere and there really is nothing we can do to change that, it's just the way people are.

Fort York Redcoat
07-03-2014, 11:49 AM
Why? Swearing can offend someone just as much as something racist or homophobic. Just because it doesn't seem as bad in your mind doesn't mean it's not bad in other peoples minds. Personally I don't find "puto" offensive because in the context it is used in Mexico and what it means there isn't homophobic or racist or any of that other nonsense. Just because it's "translated" here to mean "faggot" doesn't mean it actually means it. The cultures and languages are completely different. In this country, the word "faggot" essentially had the same meaning as "bitch" and was almost never used in a derogatory manner towards the gay population in this country(sort of like how "nigga" is used among friends.) Then a few years ago when the gay community banded together and let the public know that they find that word incredibly offensive, even if it's not used against them, that began the momentum shift to remove it from the day to day language.

Overall, I just think you're just being incredibly oversensitive in regards to "puto" which doesn't surprise me, seeing as it seems like the vast majority of the population is oversensitive to almost everything these days. Hell, the mayor uses Jamaican patois and people call him a racist. Nigel Reed on a World Cup pregame show had a banana and he offered it to Lloyd Barker and there were some people on twitter in an uproar :facepalm:

The moral of the story, no matter what you say or do will offend someone somewhere and there really is nothing we can do to change that, it's just the way people are.

Categorically, absolutely false. It's disgraceful that anyone even thinks this is the case. As one of my friends said recently

It's the last words some people hear as they are beaten to death. That's in first world countries.

The attempt to disarm these hate words falls flat. Notice how you didn't spell the "n bomb" out? We all know that would be a no-no.

Your use of the term offends me even in your "logical" justification.

This is why I won't use a word that may be a hate word to someone in the stadium.

Abou Sky
07-03-2014, 12:12 PM
I don't want to be "that woman", however, it think its interesting that some people on this thread are adamantly against using /racial homophobic slurs, but ok with using terms that are derogatory towards women (whether or not we are present doesn't make a difference). Men and women and people of all races, sexualities etc. love to cheer for TFC, so my vote would be to respect everyone. That being said, we don't need to be constantly walking on eggshells and I love a good yell at the keeper. Vancouver uses "You Fat Bastard", I'm cool with "Douchebag" though because it's pretty universal and could offend anyone and everyone ;)

I am with you on this. I have seen two children born and HATE it when people use 'pussy' as a slur, I mean I REALLY REALLY hate that word (as a slur) also 'cunt' (as a slur)

'Limp Dick' OTOH is a personal fave because damned if that isn't a great dig. 'you limp dick fuck' etc. Really fantastic.

So... how about the Fire supporters saying it yesterday?

Friend made a point that 'If you had a whole group yelling 'f@gg0t' everyone would go crazy' so why on earth is this OK?

james
07-03-2014, 12:32 PM
Its all banter. People complain about saying puto, then you might as well also stop saying "Tic Tac tabernac who the F**s the impact". Stop saying "douchbag" stop saying "F**k you" stop saying "fat bastard" stop saying "C**t" stop saying "referee has no father" stop saying "pick him up and bury him" stop saying "get up you pus*y".......the list could go on, and on. You here these chants every game. I don't know, i find really its banter and doesn't quite mean what the word really means. Its part of soccer atmosphere, i would only take what is said at soccer games with a small grain of salt. Without banter the atmosphere sucks. And then to what point do you pick and choose what is ok to say and what is not? the list is endless really. Probably just save you a lot of time and brush it off and get on with supporting your team, having fun, and watching your club play, and insulting the other team :D

Fort York Redcoat
07-03-2014, 12:54 PM
Its all banter. People complain about saying puto, then you might as well also stop saying "Tic Tac tabernac who the F**s the impact". Stop saying "douchbag" stop saying "F**k you" stop saying "fat bastard" stop saying "C**t" stop saying "referee has no father" stop saying "pick him up and bury him" stop saying "get up you pus*y".......the list could go on, and on. You here these chants every game. I don't know, i find really its banter and doesn't quite mean what the word really means. Its part of soccer atmosphere, i would only take what is said at soccer games with a small grain of salt. Without banter the atmosphere sucks. And then to what point do you pick and choose what is ok to say and what is not? the list is endless really. Probably just save you a lot of time and brush it off and get on with supporting your team, having fun, and watching your club play, and insulting the other team :D

The fact that people can't see the difference is why we keep talking about it.

It's not at all the same. Look at your list. It's tame in comparison to what we're talking about. That list is a bunch of body parts and no one is actually getting beaten up over it.

This is all pretty simple. It's sad to see the need for a loophole for this kind of ignorance.

Hope everyone had a great WORLDPRIDE!!:thumbsup:

Jack
07-03-2014, 12:57 PM
Personally I don't find "puto" offensive because in the context it is used in Mexico and what it means there isn't homophobic or racist or any of that other nonsense. Just because it's "translated" here to mean "faggot" doesn't mean it actually means it. The cultures and languages are completely different.
You are mistaken on this one. Puto in Mexican Spanish is used exactly the same way that "fag" or "faggot" are used in the derogatory sense in Canada. The derogatory nature of the term comes from the implication that it is somehow a bad thing to be homosexual, just like in English.

james
07-03-2014, 01:00 PM
The fact that people can't see the difference is why we keep talking about it.

It's not at all the same. Look at your list. It's tame in comparison to what we're talking about. That list is a bunch of body parts and no one is actually getting beaten up over it.

This is all pretty simple. It's sad to see the need for a loophole for this kind of ignorance.

Hope everyone had a great WORLDPRIDE!!:thumbsup:

well we had a song about liquoir whores and strippers in Montreal.....is that more on the line of what we are talking about? Anyways ya i dont want to get to deep into this conversation. I do think most of this is banter and people really don't mean it seriously.

Fort York Redcoat
07-03-2014, 01:39 PM
You are mistaken on this one. Puto in Mexican Spanish is used exactly the same way that "fag" or "faggot" are used in the derogatory sense in Canada. The derogatory nature of the term comes from the implication that it is somehow a bad thing to be homosexual, just like in English.

I'm beginning to believe there's little difference between the understanding of hatespeech in either language.

To think douchebag is even in the same realm...

Pint
07-03-2014, 01:52 PM
The difference between Douchebag/C*nt/Dick/Asshole etc and "Puto" or "Fa**ot" is that the first set are not directed as hate towards a group within society where as the second set is.

If i call someone a douchebag it is directed at the one person and has no effect on another set of human beings on the planet. Where as if i called someone a "Fa**ot" it is still directed at someone specific but has a broader meaning which demeans a group within society.

When i'm chirping a person/team etc it is directed at that person/team and in no way would i want it seen or mistaken being directed at another separate group within society.

molenshtain
07-03-2014, 05:47 PM
It's an odd thing that the Fire were doing that chant last night. They're usually one of the most self-aware SG's in the league, thought things might have changed in recent years.

gate7
07-03-2014, 07:42 PM
I don't have a problem with cursing someone out, but homophobic slurs are just not cool. I know people use them, but how is that different than racism? You are basically using a type of person as an insult.

....so i have a few friends in the gay community and you couldn't imagine the homophobic slurs that i hear them call each other when in a group ( and i mean hard core ). So I'm like "wow i never thought id hear you guys speak like that to each other" and buddy tells me while laughing "well honey he is (those things) isn't he?" ........of course at this point i'm red to the face.
I guess its kinda like a rapper using the N word.......



There are dozens of spanish speaking countries and they all value similar words differently.


I think people who use the word 'Puto' at games are just un-classy nothing more....I just came back from a few games in Brasil and remember people saying 'Pepsi' instead of 'Puto' around their kids. I guess everyone wants to join in on the fun but mean no harm.

tfcleeds
07-03-2014, 07:58 PM
It's an odd thing that the Fire were doing that chant last night. They're usually one of the most self-aware SG's in the league, thought things might have changed in recent years.

I don't think that was Section 8 though. Probably just a bunch of, erm, douchebags. ;)

Pint
07-03-2014, 08:07 PM
I don't think that was Section 8 though. Probably just a bunch of, erm, douchebags. ;)

Nah i think it was the other section on the other side of the stadium in the corner... Its always the section on the other side of the stadium causing problems :wink5:

tfcleeds
07-03-2014, 08:16 PM
Nah i think it was the other section on the other side of the stadium in the corner... Its always the section on the other side of the stadium causing problems :wink5:

Wouldn't surprise me. I know when I've been to Chicago away games, the fans near where we were (opposite where the Chicago supporters section is) were a real piece of work. As in, being assholes.

FluSH
07-03-2014, 10:48 PM
Fire supporters chanted it last night.

Fire supporters sucked ballz... Their chants were horrible, sounded horrible, and were off timing. Chanting "I just can't get enough" while TFC is taking a corner is an absolute FAIL.

Now that I think about it, they have always sucked.

Jack
07-04-2014, 12:10 AM
There are dozens of spanish speaking countries and they all value similar words differently.
Indeed there are many countries where certain words have different meanings. When I worked in Mexico, I had coworkers from Spain and all over Latin America, including Chile, Argentina, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Peru, Cuba, Costa Rica, Panama, Ecuador, Puerto Rico, plus a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. Believe me, as an aficionado of the language and the regional subtleties and differences, it was quite an interesting experience. Hearing a guy from Mexico City try to carry on a conversation with a recently arrived Argentine from Buenos Aires was quite comical, as they could barely understand each other due to all the slang and different meanings of certain words.

For example "pendejo" means something akin to "idiot" or even "asshole" in Mexico, while in Chile and Argentina it is a somewhat off-colour term used as "kid" while in others it means pubic hair. Just like English, where in some countries a "fag" is a cigarette, but here it is a derogatory homophobic term when used as an insult, just like puto in Mexico. But in a few places, it's true, puto refers to a promiscuous male and doesn't usually have a homophobic implication. When translating, context and audience are very important when inferring meaning. I've done my fair share of Spanish-English translation and you can't ever ignore context. The Wikipedia entry on Spanish profanity actually has some decent examples (several of which bring back some comical memories).



I think people who use the word 'Puto' at games are just un-classy nothing more....I just came back from a few games in Brasil and remember people saying 'Pepsi' instead of 'Puto' around their kids. I guess everyone wants to join in on the fun but mean no harm.
Homophobic slurs are generally un-classy, I agree.

Justin10000
07-05-2014, 12:42 PM
Whoa. I never knew what puto meant. Goes to show it's best to learn what you're saying.

never using that word again.

gate7
07-06-2014, 11:23 PM
anyone know how to say 'limpdick' in spanish? its one of my fav's.

C.Ronaldo
07-07-2014, 09:17 AM
pepsi does suck, being called that hits hard in the gut

Pint
07-07-2014, 11:05 AM
pepsi does suck, being called that hits hard in the gut

As a former Pepsi employee i'm offended by this statement :wink5: