PDA

View Full Version : Montreal Impact Ultras leave stadium during game



CBTFC
06-11-2014, 08:27 PM
So...as I'm watching the Montreal/DC game, I notice at one point it goes quiet.

Then Jason Devos mentions briefly how the entire supporter's section has left the stadium, after ejection of 3 of their members.

Really interested to see how this pans out.

Pint
06-11-2014, 08:44 PM
Would like to know what they got ejected for.

My opinion of what they did will depends on the offense that got the 3 guys kicked out.

also i wonder if walking out was easier in a game they were losing badly

Yohan
06-11-2014, 08:44 PM
why is this even a new thread? and why should we care?

Shakes McQueen
06-11-2014, 08:45 PM
Their garbage bag banners blew away in a strong breeze, and they are going to the local home depot to get more Glad bags and hockey tape.

MartinUtd
06-11-2014, 08:47 PM
Maybe they just left so they could burn scarves, act hard and take selfies in the parking lot.

Red CB Toronto
06-11-2014, 10:06 PM
It ha d to do with flares.

Red4ever
06-11-2014, 10:11 PM
They weren't allowed pyro, got banned for pyro and the rest of the losers left. Good on saputo for making sure they're banned for the year. It should be longer.

ManUtd4ever
06-11-2014, 10:14 PM
What a bunch of morons.

prizby
06-11-2014, 10:18 PM
it's funny cuz last week, security didn't care about the pyro or smoke...funny how they cared when Garber was in the house

ManUtd4ever
06-11-2014, 10:24 PM
Perhaps the rules didn't apply for a Voyageurs Cup game...

gate7
06-11-2014, 11:33 PM
there is always some common denominator between too much fun and illegal activity.:flare:

werewolf
06-11-2014, 11:48 PM
I have dealt with a number of different levels of staff at that venue multiple times, they are a disgrace. Drogba levels of disgrace.

That should be noted, whether the limpact fans were acting the ass or not.

Oldtimer
06-12-2014, 06:13 AM
Their garbage bag banners blew away in a strong breeze, and they are going to the local home depot to get more Glad bags and hockey tape.

:lol:

UM02's relationship with Joey Saputo has been strained at the best of times. In many ways I'm sure he wishes they weren't there.

trane
06-12-2014, 07:30 AM
The refs last night were a disgrace even by MLS standards.

prizby
06-12-2014, 07:35 AM
:lol:

UM02's relationship with Joey Saputo has been strained at the best of times. In many ways I'm sure he wishes they weren't there.

really; seems like they are the only section that actually has more than 1/3rd of their seats filled

ryan
06-12-2014, 07:47 AM
:lol:

UM02's relationship with Joey Saputo has been strained at the best of times. In many ways I'm sure he wishes they weren't there.


really; seems like they are the only section that actually has more than 1/3rd of their seats filled

Pretty much this.

Montreal doesn't seem to draw well otherwise, so this is not ideal for them. Their atmosphere will be limited to whatever crowd noise they pump through those speakers on the roof. Add in how miserable this season has been, they could be playing in an empty park come October.



Lesson to be learned, when the Don shows up, you better be on your best behaviour. Fuckin lulz to me. As much as I hate those fucks, I kind of sympathize considering how often they do pyro without issue. For all the fuckshit they pull, they seem to at least handle their pyro/smoke show properly.

OgtheDim
06-12-2014, 08:09 AM
Rain, midweek evening, day before the World Cup starts, against a less then interesting opponent

not much walk up crowd for a game like that

Oldtimer
06-12-2014, 08:17 AM
really; seems like they are the only section that actually has more than 1/3rd of their seats filled

Montrealers don't show up for losing teams. That's why the Expos were moved to Washington.

Phil
06-12-2014, 08:18 AM
Well, from what I have seen they don't seem to have clear rules on pyro and they do seem to get away with it. But good luck understanding how the clandestine SG's really work there. There may have been warnings, there may not have, we will never get a straight answer - it will always be spin.

I would hope they have some kind of dialogue with their team, given their participation in other MLS SG organized efforts I wouldn't be surprised if they don't.

Parkdale
06-12-2014, 08:25 AM
the plot thickens...

I heard the smoke was lit outside of the designated supporters section, hence the ejection.

but in ex-TFC news: Luis Silva scored 3 goals against them. Cheers!
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Silva+trick+lifts+United+over+Impact/9930191/story.html

^ and according to this article, it was flares too, not just smoke.

TFC07
06-12-2014, 08:45 AM
it's funny cuz last week, security didn't care about the pyro or smoke...funny how they cared when Garber was in the house

That's just stupid if it's true. You think Garber really cares about flares? As long teams are filling their stadiums (which Canadian MLS teams are doing) then he shouldn't have any issues with flares.

I think SG most likely got on bad side of security and paid for it.

eustacchio
06-12-2014, 09:00 AM
From the article that Parky linked to:

Impact vice-president Richard Legendre said the fans created a dangerous situation by setting off flares and smoke bombs. He said the individuals responsible were identified last week and security moved in after they were received a warning.

BuSaPuNk
06-12-2014, 09:43 AM
From the article that Parky linked to:

Impact vice-president Richard Legendre said the fans created a dangerous situation by setting off flares and smoke bombs. He said the individuals responsible were identified last week and security moved in after they were received a warning.

Didn't listen to a warning and they did it anyways. Don't feel bad for them at all. Be no different if someone put off a flare in the south end at BMO.

You know the rules, your on your own. Walking out because you can't play with fire is childish and shows your players and fans that you don't care about supporting them. IMO.

Sure it can be spin but until there are black and white rules this will be an issue in most places. Atleast we have black and white rules about these things.

CretanBull
06-12-2014, 09:54 AM
I have dealt with a number of different levels of staff at that venue multiple times, they are a disgrace. Drogba levels of disgrace.
http://londontomk.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/drogba.gif




That should be noted, whether the limpact fans were acting the ass or not.

Tough question...who are more notorious for being ass clowns - Impact fans or security guards?

http://freeteams.com/files_public/2/2167/files/matchreports/coin_flip.gif

Parkdale
06-12-2014, 10:01 AM
It's an interesting situation.

While the mass walkout showed that the supporters have each other's backs, it also showed that some supporters don't give a fuck about their actions or how the consequences will affect everyone.

And let's be honest - do you think the walkout would have happened if the team was winning? I doubt it. They were in a pissy mood to begin with.

molenshtain
06-12-2014, 10:28 AM
Montrealers don't show up for losing teams. That's why the Expos were moved to Washington.


the Expos moved to Washington because Jeffrey Loria is scum and the 1994 strike happened. Anyone competent and willing could have kept the Expos in Montreal. It's true that Montrealers have a tendency to be fair-weather, and at many times the expos did feel the full extent of that, though that's not the reason the Expos left. The Expos were a winning and viable franchise in the early 90's. Loria came in, sold all their assets, drove down interest by being awful at negotiating TV and Radio contracts, and subsequently sold the team to the league in return of a controlling stake in the new Miami team.

Phil
06-12-2014, 10:49 AM
They hung their banner upside down last week in protest of their season.

Great stadium, roof on their heads to make them loud, yet have to push the line on fire. Whatever, some things never change.

Red Rat
06-12-2014, 10:52 AM
Guys the rules were written in Anglais while they speak French. I think that this is the confusion

prizby
06-12-2014, 05:59 PM
the plot thickens...

I heard the smoke was lit outside of the designated supporters section, hence the ejection.

but in ex-TFC news: Luis Silva scored 3 goals against them. Cheers!
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Silva+trick+lifts+United+over+Impact/9930191/story.html

^ and according to this article, it was flares too, not just smoke.

which they used last week with no repercussions


From the article that Parky linked to:

Impact vice-president Richard Legendre said the fans created a dangerous situation by setting off flares and smoke bombs. He said the individuals responsible were identified last week and security moved in after they were received a warning.

starting to make more sense now


That's just stupid if it's true. You think Garber really cares about flares? As long teams are filling their stadiums (which Canadian MLS teams are doing) then he shouldn't have any issues with flares.

I think SG most likely got on bad side of security and paid for it.

what they did yesterday was nothing compared to what they did last Wednesday

OgtheDim
06-12-2014, 06:20 PM
I wouldn't be suprised if Suputo moves to neuter UM02.

There's a supporters group in the corner, called 126. They stayed.

I also note that the pics before and after indicated a sudden influx of people in the top rows of that section - i.e. they didn't seem to go very far.


Stop singing, be quiet...fine.

But, Leaving over pyro?!?!?!


Do you support the team or the smoke?

19Barrett19
06-12-2014, 08:31 PM
its so nice to support Toronto FC through think and thin You guys rock every game and are TFC's all time best 12th man..... Proud!

james
06-13-2014, 11:39 PM
I don't know the details with what happened to cause Montreal supporters to leave the stadium other then it was something to do with flares. From my experience tho at BMO field I can say I know how security can be, change the rules from one day to the next, banning flags, flares, banners all sorts of shit over the years at BMO field. If it was anything like that with security flip flopping or on a power trip while Montreal fans were just doing there thing then I applaud Montreal supporters for leaving. Now if it is something over the top stupid, then well its there own fault.

Hey anyone see TFC vs Montreal Canadian Championship match 2nd leg. Got to give to the supporters, the rather small group of supporters they had behind the note made a hell of a noise, louder then TFC ever sound on TV (could that be the roof? closed in corners? camera position? or are we in Toronto just the worst at making any sort of good singing atmosphere?)

Phil
06-14-2014, 07:34 PM
I don't know the details with what happened to cause Montreal supporters to leave the stadium other then it was something to do with flares. From my experience tho at BMO field I can say I know how security can be, change the rules from one day to the next, banning flags, flares, banners all sorts of shit over the years at BMO field. If it was anything like that with security flip flopping or on a power trip while Montreal fans were just doing there thing then I applaud Montreal supporters for leaving. Now if it is something over the top stupid, then well its there own fault.

Hey anyone see TFC vs Montreal Canadian Championship match 2nd leg. Got to give to the supporters, the rather small group of supporters they had behind the note made a hell of a noise, louder then TFC ever sound on TV (could that be the roof? closed in corners? camera position? or are we in Toronto just the worst at making any sort of good singing atmosphere?)

Amazing what a roof can do no?

Shakes McQueen
06-14-2014, 07:41 PM
A roof makes a massive difference for volume - having sound waves bounce around inside the stadium, instead of immediately floating out into the aether. Even a partial roof makes a big difference.

ryan
06-14-2014, 08:30 PM
Maybe I was drunk....ok I was, but I was certain the speaker system was pumping crowd noise as well that night.

BuSaPuNk
06-14-2014, 08:50 PM
Maybe I was drunk....ok I was, but I was certain the speaker system was pumping crowd noise as well that night.
You noticed that too eh?

Yep the mic'd them up pretty good. The sound was coming from right behind us. And low and behold there's speakers above us.

OgtheDim
06-15-2014, 08:47 AM
IF MLSE mics up supporters and pumps it through speakers at BMO, I might actually get so riled up as to send a note of approbation to TL.

Red4ever
06-27-2014, 11:14 PM
3 supporters are banned til 2016. Looks good on em. I can only hope TFC management would dole out the same punishment or more severe if people burn anything here.

Supporting
06-27-2014, 11:16 PM
3 supporters are banned til 2016. Looks good on em. I can only hope TFC management would dole out the same punishment or more severe if people burn anything here.

lame

Supporting
06-27-2014, 11:28 PM
^actually I take that back, I didn't realize they started a fire.

prizby
06-28-2014, 05:37 AM
3 supporters are banned til 2016. Looks good on em. I can only hope TFC management would dole out the same punishment or more severe if people burn anything here.

its a bit lame to ban supporters for something imfc use in their marketing


^actually I take that back, I didn't realize they started a fire.

they didn't start a fire; that was the term they used for using pyro

Supporting
06-28-2014, 10:58 AM
Lol then I take back my "take back"

eustacchio
06-28-2014, 11:25 AM
they didn't start a fire; that was the term they used for using pyro

That's not how I read it: http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2014/06/three-individuals-banned-until-2016.

By definition, "pyrotechnics" is a fireworks display.

I can't find anything else to back up either side though.

Red4ever
06-28-2014, 12:59 PM
Prizby. With all due respect, because I Like both you and a healthy debate, you're starting to sound like a kid who was just given a book of matches for the first time.

They had a flare and it started a fire. When you own a soccer team you can be hypocritical and use pyro in ads. You can't start a fire in an office building, or a park or someone's house or a stadium and expect not face repercussions.

I think pyro looks like supporters are trying too hard. Thats all it says to me anymore.

Supporting
06-28-2014, 05:29 PM
Prizby. With all due respect, because I Like both you and a healthy debate, you're starting to sound like a kid who was just given a book of matches for the first time.

They had a flare and it started a fire. When you own a soccer team you can be hypocritical and use pyro in ads. You can't start a fire in an office building, or a park or someone's house or a stadium and expect not face repercussions.

I think pyro looks like supporters are trying too hard. Thats all it says to me anymore.

Man you have it wrong on so many levels if you think trying too hard is a bad thing when supporting a team. Also, if the Impact were advertising for people to come watch Montreal games with pyro, then you can't punish ppl for using pyro at the games.

Red4ever
06-28-2014, 06:13 PM
Man you have it wrong on so many levels if you think trying too hard is a bad thing when supporting a team. Also, if the Impact were advertising for people to come watch Montreal games with pyro, then you can't punish ppl for using pyro at the games.

They can and they did.

prizby
06-28-2014, 06:50 PM
That's not how I read it: http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2014/06/three-individuals-banned-until-2016.

By definition, "pyrotechnics" is a fireworks display.

I can't find anything else to back up either side though.

I was at the game...we watched it from across the pitch; there were flares burning, there was no actual fire, or rather nothing that seemed to catch fire, but I guess that would really depend on how one defines as a fire



I think pyro looks like supporters are trying too hard. Thats all it says to me anymore.

I feel it is a work of art (no not the painting art), but an art no less, it is also, IMO, a piece of expressionism

brad
06-28-2014, 07:03 PM
They can and they did.

And TFC did exactly the same. Is it fair? Nope. But that is irrelevant.

Shakes McQueen
06-28-2014, 07:42 PM
I feel it is a work of art (no not the painting art), but an art no less, it is also, IMO, a piece of expressionism

I'd love to hear this hypothesis expanded upon.

Shakes McQueen
06-28-2014, 07:45 PM
there were flares burning, there was no actual fire, or rather nothing that seemed to catch fire

How could you possibly know this for certain, from "across the pitch"?

Pint
06-28-2014, 08:47 PM
If it was just flares that is strange to me as they always appear to use flares in the stands.

Could just be joey trying to take back some control of the stadium

prizby
06-28-2014, 11:04 PM
I'd love to hear this hypothesis expanded upon.

opinion, not a guess


How could you possibly know this for certain, from "across the pitch"?

you only used half the sentence

"but I guess that would really depend on how one defines as a fire"

for example, the way they illustrate it in the press release is things caught fire...that is something that would be noticeable, my point was purely, that if they mean something more than flares, it was most certainly not noticeable

Red4ever
06-28-2014, 11:44 PM
Okay. Well then even if no one knows for sure, it's better to take the word of your pyro brothers in arms that ripped the seats out of BMO field than the MTL front office.

Shakes McQueen
06-29-2014, 12:28 AM
you only used half the sentence

"but I guess that would really depend on how one defines as a fire"

for example, the way they illustrate it in the press release is things caught fire...that is something that would be noticeable, my point was purely, that if they mean something more than flares, it was most certainly not noticeable

How would that be specifically noticeable, when there are also flares going off, which are essentially small, intensely hot fires of their own? The press release says that the incident "caused a fire" - maybe that means they inadvertently melted a seat or something, not that they burned down part of the stadium.

Not that it really matters all that much at the end of the day. Obey the stadium rules, Montreal ooltras. And maybe get over the adolescent obsession with fire sticks.

prizby
06-29-2014, 08:39 AM
Okay. Well then even if no one knows for sure, it's better to take the word of your pyro brothers in arms that ripped the seats out of BMO field than the MTL front office.

the same FO that use the pyro displays in their marketing?

JuliquE
06-29-2014, 09:55 AM
I feel it is a work of art (no not the painting art), but an art no less, it is also, IMO, a piece of expressionism
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4c/4c263bd945d3045f4a7a3f7f04263fb1b85c3ad5912c7ba08b 17b67c0818b8ce.jpg

BuSaPuNk
06-29-2014, 11:48 AM
the same FO that use the pyro displays in their marketing?

What's the difference?

Marketing is all about exploitation. There taking advantage of the wow factor of there supporters to try and bring people in. Doesn't seem to be working as the place is empty most games.

Listen the rules were there and they failed to follow the rules. Of course there's going to be consequences.

An just because they use images of pyro in there marketing campaigns doesn't mean it's allowed.

Ford uses high speed and race cars during there ads. I drive a Ford what are my odds of fighting in court that I should be able to do 150km/h on the 400?

Rules are there to be followed. No different then us following the rules in the stands at BMO as well as following the rules and guidelines we have for smoke this year.

prizby
06-29-2014, 12:12 PM
Ford uses high speed and race cars during there ads. I drive a Ford what are my odds of fighting in court that I should be able to do 150km/h on the 400?


Ford also has a disclaimer in their ads

Red4ever
06-29-2014, 02:36 PM
Busa is spot on and your argument is no longer "I didn't know I wasn't allowed" but rather "i know it's wrong but I'm going to stick to this loophole".

Also did they damage property in their marketing? As we are now just taking your word against the FO that no damage was actually done.

Ivy
06-29-2014, 04:47 PM
"Bring your drums"

...no drums allowed.

Supporting
06-29-2014, 06:53 PM
Wtf how is it a loophole...

They wanted people to come to their games and they did this by showing them other fans using pyro. If people ended up using pyro then they shouldn't be punished. If this was an actual court case, they would have NEVER been punished.

Shakes McQueen
06-29-2014, 07:20 PM
Wtf how is it a loophole...

They wanted people to come to their games and they did this by showing them other fans using pyro. If people ended up using pyro then they shouldn't be punished. If this was an actual court case, they would have NEVER been punished.

No court on Earth would listen to the argument "well, they had pictures with pyro in some of their marketing!" - especially if it's a case about these guys starting a fire, or damaging any part of the stadium with flares. Even more so, if the stadium technically has rules about pyro.

If you bring flares to a stadium that has rules about flare use, then you take your chances, and deserve what you get - regardless of whatever pictures their graphic designer chose to use in the adverts. It's really that simple. Don't want to risk gettiing banned? Leave the fire sticks at home, or work to achieve some sort of MOU with the team, about how they can be used, like the Toronto groups painstakingly did with smoke canisters.

SmokedPanda
06-29-2014, 09:33 PM
so my buddies in Mtl who sit in the section right next to the Ultras said that three of their members we're caught with flares. Turns out Don Garber was in the building that night as well so those guys got the boot and all the dick bags decided to be united and leave all together.

BuSaPuNk
06-29-2014, 11:21 PM
Ford also has a disclaimer in their ads

As I'm sure there is a disclaimer on the ticket that certain things can't be used. Or it's in the rules and regulations for the stadium on the website ect.

Either way to me there's no place for it if it falls in the category that you have to ask about it's use to use it.

It's no different then smoke at BMO. We fought to get to where we are and what we have today. Why ruin it buy having guys that shouldn't be and are doing it in the stands?

Not only are they being selfish there undermining the work that goes into getting where we are. I have no sympathy for guys that will break rules that they know are wrong just to point to marketing as an excuse. It's childish.

And just to end this here is the rules for Stade Saputo.

http://m.impactmontreal.com/en/stadium/rules-and-regulations

The following Rules & Regulations are in place to ensure that everyone in attendance enjoys the game, creating a unique atmosphere at the stadium. Our staff will proactively enforce these Rules & Regulations and any violation may result in immediate ejection from the stadium premises and/or remanded to the proper authorities and/or result in the revocation of ticket purchasing privileges. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

"The possession or use of flares, smoke bombs, sparklers, fireworks or any prohibited pyrotechnic item of any kind is strictly prohibited;"

No agrument to be made it's clearly stated.

Red4ever
06-29-2014, 11:58 PM
As I'm sure there is a disclaimer on the ticket that certain things can't be used. Or it's in the rules and regulations for the stadium on the website ect.

Either way to me there's no place for it if it falls in the category that you have to ask about it's use to use it.

It's no different then smoke at BMO. We fought to get to where we are and what we have today. Why ruin it buy having guys that shouldn't be and are doing it in the stands?

Not only are they being selfish there undermining the work that goes into getting where we are. I have no sympathy for guys that will break rules that they know are wrong just to point to marketing as an excuse. It's childish.

And just to end this here is the rules for Stade Saputo.

http://m.impactmontreal.com/en/stadium/rules-and-regulations

The following Rules & Regulations are in place to ensure that everyone in attendance enjoys the game, creating a unique atmosphere at the stadium. Our staff will proactively enforce these Rules & Regulations and any violation may result in immediate ejection from the stadium premises and/or remanded to the proper authorities and/or result in the revocation of ticket purchasing privileges. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

"The possession or use of flares, smoke bombs, sparklers, fireworks or any prohibited pyrotechnic item of any kind is strictly prohibited;"

No agrument to be made it's clearly stated.

But that commercial tho...

Pint
06-30-2014, 12:18 AM
The only thing that sticks out to me is that they have been allowed to use (or at least not punished for) using pyro for a while now and all of a sudden it's a problem.

You never know whats going on between the FO and the Ultras and if warnings were given but it does not hold with prior behavior.

Shakes McQueen
06-30-2014, 12:29 AM
The only thing that sticks out to me is that they have been allowed to use (or at least not punished for) using pyro for a while now and all of a sudden it's a problem.

You never know whats going on between the FO and the Ultras and if warnings were given but it does not hold with prior behavior.

This is why it's smart to have an understanding with the front office, as to what is allowed by supporters - again, much like we do with the smoke canisters. Just saying "well we've done it before without getting in trouble!" is no argument, because that kind of laissez-faire treatment can change in a nanosecond when the commish is in the building, or when some seats get damaged or something.

The Impact have nothing to gain by infuriating their hardcore fans for no reason, so either something happened (and if the police are investigating "a fire", as their presser says, I tend to lean towards this), or they cracked down because Garber was in the house.

According to the stadium rules, as noted by BuSaPunk, these guys don't have a leg to stand on.

Initial B
06-30-2014, 11:41 AM
I was at the TFC-Impact game at Stade Saputo in 2012 and there were two different flares going off in the Ultra's section at the opposite end of the pitch. My son thought it was really cool and they stayed lit for at least 10 minutes. I didn't notice any security confiscating anything. I think its kind of disengenious of the Impact to turn a blind eye to the rules when it suits them. Still, if the ultras had known that Garber was there, they might not have lit the flares.

Jack
06-30-2014, 12:22 PM
The problem with that arrangement is that the FO holds all the cards. If you actually get an agreement in place, then you're not subject to their whims. Going by the "no one said anything" argument just opens you up to any sort of crackdown and is not smart by their support. Like it or not, you have to make deals with the ownership and stadium staff in order to cover your own asses. And "we did it last week and you did nothing" just doesn't quite cut it.

Derko
06-30-2014, 02:35 PM
I like the idea that ultras banded together as a show of solidarity, but come on guys, pyrotechnics being handled by amateurs and drunk amateurs for that matter is just plain stupid. I don't know whether those big pyro and smoke displays at matches in Europe are handled by professionals (someone can confirm for me), I would like to think they are. I'll just err on the side of caution, and not be part of it. You abide by the laws of the land, or suffer the consequences, inho

Brooker
07-03-2014, 11:08 PM
If you only get a warning for setting off a flare..... that's amazing customer service. People get kicked out right away for lighting a friggin cigarette.

If you get kicked out after ignoring the warning, how can you complain?

FluSH
07-03-2014, 11:53 PM
If you only get a warning for setting off a flare..... that's amazing customer service. People get kicked out right away for lighting a friggin cigarette.

If you get kicked out after ignoring the warning, how can you complain?

Amen

james
07-04-2014, 12:56 AM
I like the idea that ultras banded together as a show of solidarity, but come on guys, pyrotechnics being handled by amateurs and drunk amateurs for that matter is just plain stupid. I don't know whether those big pyro and smoke displays at matches in Europe are handled by professionals (someone can confirm for me), I would like to think they are. I'll just err on the side of caution, and not be part of it. You abide by the laws of the land, or suffer the consequences, inho

hahahaga, ya I have a big hunch they are no professionals in many cases. In most Europe countries flares are often banned, yet in most countries flares are a regular game appearance. Most teams have flares to put on a good tifo display, but you watch videos like this might make you start to think this was no professionals and things can go wrong quickly, or make you think...that doesn't look safe, they would go crazy if that happened here! lol

Poland

http://youtu.be/m66YNvdyj-c
Germany

http://youtu.be/3qIN3DuWR-4