We're in a good place

[CBTFC]

I don't know how else to describe it, but despite the nitpicking over the play of Hall/Osorio/Bekker/Henry, etc etc...

After the win against SJ, and even considering the "Amway", I think that right now as of this moment TFC is in possibly it's best form as it's ever been.

All the little little cogs that make up the team are slowly but surely progressing, even with Bradley out of the lineup.

It's much more fun looking at the glass half full. Some of you guys should try it some time ;)

[__wowza]

we're toronto sports fan, we'll always find a reason to complain. :wink5:

aside from that, we're off to an awesome start. as much as we play scrappy, crappy, football.. we're getting the results we need. i'll disagree with the amyway though. i would've loved to have been VC champions again, let alone beat montreal.

[Cashcleaner]

I wasn't able to catch the entire game on TV today (parents kept flipping over to the Belmont Stakes), but from what I did see, TFC had pretty good control of the game. Our possession was up. Our passing looked better than in a few previous games I can think of. Hagglund and Caldwell looked pretty good from what I saw. I noticed Oduro came on in the 2nd half, but didn't see much of it. Was it a good first outing for him?

I think you're right. Pieces are starting to come together for this club. I'm sorta getting a vibe that Nelsen is playing the team more to Tim B's vision. Compare the defence from today to what we saw earlier on in the season and I think the change is noticeable. All we're waiting on is Gilberto, frankly.

Though I agree with Wowza on losing the V-Cup. It's a loss that I don't take particularly lightly.

[Kaz]

We are in a good place.. you can easily say this is our best start...

one thing I'm concerned about..

Last season the difference between 5th place in the league and 13th place was 5 points. (5th and 10th was a 2 point seperation)

The Difference between a 3rd place finish and a 7th place finish in either conference was 5 points.

Both conference had two teams tied on points where the Playoff spot is decided by Goals.

This means that every point counts. The only people that are comfortably in a play off spot are usually the teams that finish in the top 2 places... and even then it's only a point or two.

In most cases that extra goal to get a tie can make all the difference... so when we are upset about ties that should be wins or wins that should be ties, due to a under performing offence (yet again) people have a point. Gilberto needs to get some time.. I really feel bad about him not playing today. He needs to take the break, get excited and go out there and score.

I don't want to have a bad stretch and end up eliminated by a point.. or worse a goal.

[Cashcleaner]

This means that every point counts. The only people that are comfortably in a play off spot are usually the teams that finish in the top 2 places... and even then it's only a point or two.

In most cases that extra goal to get a tie can make all the difference... so when we are upset about ties that should be wins or wins that should be ties, due to a under performing offence (yet again) people have a point. Gilberto needs to get some time.. I really feel bad about him not playing today. He needs to take the break, get excited and go out there and score.

I don't want to have a bad stretch and end up eliminated by a point.. or worse a goal.

And that was one of the bigger problems we had to deal with last year. Games they we should have tied but ended up losing, and a few games we were winning but ended up getting the draw.

[Pookie]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

[OgtheDim]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

That there was hope for the league but realistically, mid table is better then bottom feeder. Good to get into the cup final but should have progressed.


However, if there were no playoffs, all MLS teams would be set up very differently.

[Pookie]

That there was hope for the league but realistically, mid table is better then bottom feeder. Good to get into the cup final but should have progressed.


However, if there were no playoffs, all MLS teams would be set up very differently.

How so? Assume we still had player quotas, centralized contracts and the DP rules.

[ManUtd4ever]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

I would still feel somewhat optimistic considering our current place in the standings, the number of games we have in hand, and the fact that we're not even close to firing on all cylinders yet.

[rowjimi]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

I would still feel pretty good. We have games in hand and the team is progressing. Not there yet but if we continue to get better and have our full squad it will be very interesting where we end up in October.

[ManUtd4ever]

It's also worth noting that if TFC was subject to domestic MLS parameters regarding CCL qualification, we would have a realistic shot at finishing in the top four this season.

Furthermore, a berth in next year's CCL is already at stake based on this year's standings, and we are in a solid position with respect to our prospects of finishing the season as the highest ranked Canadian MLS club.

[Canary10]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

Making the playoffs was the clear goal this year.

Your question to me is like setting a goal to finish a marathon and having someone say 'what if there are no marathons, just 100k ultras?'

Well i would have a different goal then.

What's interesting about that question?

[Canary10]

We are in a good place.. you can easily say this is our best start...

one thing I'm concerned about..

Last season the difference between 5th place in the league and 13th place was 5 points. (5th and 10th was a 2 point seperation)

The Difference between a 3rd place finish and a 7th place finish in either conference was 5 points.

Both conference had two teams tied on points where the Playoff spot is decided by Goals.

This means that every point counts. The only people that are comfortably in a play off spot are usually the teams that finish in the top 2 places... and even then it's only a point or two.

In most cases that extra goal to get a tie can make all the difference... so when we are upset about ties that should be wins or wins that should be ties, due to a under performing offence (yet again) people have a point. Gilberto needs to get some time.. I really feel bad about him not playing today. He needs to take the break, get excited and go out there and score.

I don't want to have a bad stretch and end up eliminated by a point.. or worse a goal.

Is goals scored or goal differential the tiebreak. On goal differential we would be in a pretty decent place by virtue of not conceding very much.

[FluSH]

I don't know how else to describe it, but despite the nitpicking over the play of Hall/Osorio/Bekker/Henry, etc etc...

After the win against SJ, and even considering the "Amway", I think that right now as of this moment TFC is in possibly it's best form as it's ever been.

All the little little cogs that make up the team are slowly but surely progressing, even with Bradley out of the lineup.

It's much more fun looking at the glass half full. Some of you guys should try it some time ;)

Great post! We are certainly in a better place!

[TorontoGooner]

I don't know how else to describe it, but despite the nitpicking over the play of Hall/Osorio/Bekker/Henry, etc etc...

After the win against SJ, and even considering the "Amway", I think that right now as of this moment TFC is in possibly it's best form as it's ever been.

All the little little cogs that make up the team are slowly but surely progressing, even with Bradley out of the lineup.

It's much more fun looking at the glass half full. Some of you guys should try it some time ;)

Great post! Positive thoughts people, we're looking like a pretty solid team at the moment

[TFC07]

It's only going to get better when Bradley returns and we sign couple of players in summer window.

[LFC8]

I had and still have no doubt we will make the playoffs easily. We made it through the hardest part. We've played 11 games and Bradley's missed 5 of them, Defoe's missed 3 and Gilberto hasn't scored a goal yet. If you told me that before the start of the season, i definitely wouldn't have us 4th in ppg. I also think Bendik is a huge improvement from last year so the loss of Cesar doesn't really bother me anymore.

[Carts]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

I'd still feel the same - very positive and upbeat about the team...

You need to crawl before you walk, and we're on our way to walking tall...

Carts...

[Lumpy]

I had and still have no doubt we will make the playoffs easily. We made it through the hardest part. We've played 11 games and Bradley's missed 5 of them, Defoe's missed 3 and Gilberto hasn't scored a goal yet. If you told me that before the start of the season, i definitely wouldn't have us 4th in ppg. I also think Bendik is a huge improvement from last year so the loss of Cesar doesn't really bother me anymore.

Minor correction but we are now 3rd in ppg. If New England loses or ties New York today we will be in 2nd in ppg. I can't see anything negatives about that except maybe we should be first in ppg.

[Kaz]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

Well assuming the fixtures stay the same.

There is a lot into that question.
First the team is expected to make the Play-offs.. that is the top of the priority list for MLSE. They made a proclamation nothing else matters. July is insane for us with a game on average ever 4 days between June 27th and August 3rd. We will be luck to start August with 33 points. (but 40 isn't out of the realm) adding 4 games and 8,000km of travel wasn't going to do us any favours.

If there were no Playoff in MLS then there are a few things to look at.

The top three US teams would get the Champions League Berth.
Canadian Teams would still play the V-Cup
the V-Cup would still be changing it's fixture dates and placing this year.
The Winner of the 2014 V-Cup would still decide the 2014-2015 Champions League Rep.
The Top Canadian Team in MLS would still decide the 2015-2016 Champions League Rep.
And the question is would have Toronto have asked for the fixture dates they did? 9 Games in July heat?

The Top 3 US teams

Over 11 games: RSL(23), Seattle(22), New England(20)

Currently [games played]
Seattle(32)[15] , RSL(25)[15], New England(23)[13]

The Canadian Teams

Over 11 games: Toronto FC (19), Vancouver(17), Montreal(7)

Currently [games played]
Vancouver(21)[13], Toronto(19)[11], Montreal(10)[12]

Vancouver and Toronto are very close on points. 4 Extra games could actually cost us next years Champions League and a play-off berth.

So here is a Question back t you Pookie.

The Play-offs exist. If winning the V-cup means we lose out on the Play-offs, are further down the table and lose out on CONCACAF Champions League next year, would it still be worth it?

If Losing out on it this year means, we get to the Play-offs, are high in the table (maybe even in the supporters shield race), play Champions League Football next year.. and have the chemistry to really give a go at the V-cup next year with a better fixture set up. was it worth it to put out the weak showing we did?

[brad]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

If the season ended today I would be happy with the progress. Perennial last place team up to 9th is solid progress.

An we currently have between 2 & 5 games in hand on the teams above us. Even if we pick up half the points from 4 or 5 of those games in hand we are sitting pretty.

[LFC8]

Minor correction but we are now 3rd in ppg. If New England loses or ties New York today we will be in 2nd in ppg. I can't see anything negatives about that except maybe we should be first in ppg.

Well then, i stand corrected:scarf:

[tfcocd]

I'd still feel the same - very positive and upbeat about the team...

You need to crawl before you walk, and we're on our way to walking tall...

Carts...

I agree, last three seasons TFC were dwelling around the foot of the table. Mid table is significant progress especially grinding out wins without the DP midfielder. There is hope of further upside given the early strength of schedule, games in hand and return of Bradley (hopefully healthy!)

[Shakes McQueen]

Still have problems, but if someone had said this would be our record at the WC break in pre-season, I'd have taken it. We've especially hung in decently since Bradley and Cesar left.

[Pookie]

Making the playoffs was the clear goal this year.

Your question to me is like setting a goal to finish a marathon and having someone say 'what if there are no marathons, just 100k ultras?'

Well i would have a different goal then.

What's interesting about that question?

The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?

[reggie]

can I ask you pookie...when you drink a glass of milk,beer,water,is the glass always half empty:drinking:

[Jack]

The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?
It's an interesting theoretical question, but I think it's ok to be pleased with our current situation, since it shows we are making progress toward the ultimate goal of being in the top few teams in the league.

[Shakes McQueen]

The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?

I don't think our "dream" should be just making the post-season, but that should be our goal this season, based on assessing where we are as a team. Just like most golfers in the US Open might "dream" of winning it all, but a ton of them are, on a practical level, just hoping to make the weekend cut.

Of course winning the cup is the ultimate goal.

[Shakes McQueen]

It's an interesting theoretical question, but I think it's ok to be pleased with our current situation, since it shows we are making progress toward the ultimate goal of being in the top few teams in the league.

Bingo.

[Pookie]

can I ask you pookie...when you drink a glass of milk,beer,water,is the glass always half empty:drinking:

If you have a half empty beer you are more likely to get another one :)

Actually, this Rey for Oduro trade was a bit of a lights go on moment for me.

I really hate the way that MLSE runs its teams. Historically, mortgaging for the future for a short term fix and always setting their teams up to be mediocre. Usually that's because veterans tail off/get injured and there are no draft picks to fall back on.

Over the short term for TFC though, the window is clearly now and the Oduro trade made me see that. Defoe has 3 years left in his contract and maybe less on his hamstrings. Bradley is younger but American and who knows where he will want his retirement contract… the multiyear deal at 30… to be. Tim L is also publicly rumoured to be of short stay and this investment isn't generating the kind of hype that the Board expected so who knows how big the payroll will be in 3-4 years.

So why not go for it now… if you can do it in a way that preserves the draft picks? Oduro makes the team better now. In 3-4 years, he likely won't be in the mix but neither will Defoe and questionably Bradley. I would hope Gilberto can stick but who knows. Caldwell will be out. Same with Orr, DeRosario and possibly Moore.

In that time, 3-4 years from now the draft picks will be in their mid-20s. Whomever is Tim L's replacement can look for DPs that he can put in and go for it again.

Of course, MLSE could screw it up by trading those picks now and having nothing for the future but as much as I don't agree with Tim L very often, his stance on drafting is pretty positive. The only catch 22 is that the higher the team finishes the lower those picks will be but at least they will have picks.

So, let's get a little older provided you can do it without giving up draft picks. DC is having an even better turnaround to their 2013 season and they did it on the backs of players in their 30s.

Just hold MLSE accountable to championships, the kind they want to win, and not this competing for the playoffs stuff we hear from all their teams. It's a 3-4 year window to win it all and it may not open again the way it is now.

[Pookie]

So here is a Question back t you Pookie.

The Play-offs exist. If winning the V-cup means we lose out on the Play-offs, are further down the table and lose out on CONCACAF Champions League next year, would it still be worth it?

If Losing out on it this year means, we get to the Play-offs, are high in the table (maybe even in the supporters shield race), play Champions League Football next year.. and have the chemistry to really give a go at the V-cup next year with a better fixture set up. was it worth it to put out the weak showing we did?

I never think a team that charges money for people to watch it should ever put out less than its best effort. Not wanting to win games approaches Declan Hill territory in some respects. Even if you don't go that far in your own thought process, I would think that success would be good for this team and they shouldn't piss away opportunities to achieve degrees of it along the way. That's just my opinion though. Others have reasonable and opposite views based on roster management and that's fine.

As for whether it's a bad thing, I suppose it is a question of how you would build a team.

Finishing further down the table under a long term view isn't a bad thing. That means higher draft picks.

But rather than fight the wind that blows out MLSE's arse, I should just admit that it clearly isn't a long term view from the top. It's short term based on what they say and who the sign. And short term they don't want to finish further down the table. They want to achieve a mid table result so losing in the CCL helps that view. I may not agree with it but that is the goal. So, I'll hoist the flag and set my expectations accordingly.

I would say that as a group, you really shouldn't settle for making the playoffs next year. The Cup needs to be the goal and expectation given the age of the key players in this roster… and the ticket prices you'll be paying soon.

[brad]

The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?

Let's take the goal of playoffs out for a second - or at least phrase this differently.

If they said - the goal for this year is to go from perennial bottom feeders to a mid table team this year - would that be an issue?

Or how about - let's aim to go from being the worst team in the history of the league to being a decent side thhis year.

Both of those are great goals to have this year on my opinion - with an eye on that being a platform to continue to build on an improve on next year. And meeting either would make us a playoff team.

And to the latter part - no, this is not a team that could pick apart two of the best teams in the league at the top of their games. But then again - how many other teams in the league could? Not many, if any. And certainly not teams that started from a better position than we did.

I guess it depends on your perspective. If you expected us to go from garbage to the best team in the league on one off season then I suspect you are going to be dissappinted. If you expected to see us go from garbage to a not-garbage mid table team, then perhaps you are more satisfied with progress.

Maybe that's why TL said playoffs as the bar instead of te Supporters Shield or MLS cup.

[brad]

I never think a team that charges money for people to watch it should ever put out less than its best effort. Not wanting to win games approaches Declan Hill territory in some respects. Even if you don't go that far in your own thought process, I would think that success would be good for this team and they shouldn't piss away opportunities to achieve degrees of it along the way. That's just my opinion though. Others have reasonable and opposite views based on roster management and that's fine.

Sorry but this quote is just ridiculous.

There is a huge difference between throwing a game and resting players.

For the better part of the 2000's EPL teams handed debuts to kids that beer saw another appearance in te League Cup. Teams will routinely rest starters before a Champions League match - even if that mean points dropped. While it is not an apples to apples comparison due to quality of squads - to suggest that resting ayers in the cup to prioritize the league is borderline match fixing is silly.


The players against Montreal did what they could to win and came up short.

[Auzzy]

Minor correction but we are now 3rd in ppg. If New England loses or ties New York today we will be in 2nd in ppg. I can't see anything negatives about that except maybe we should be first in ppg.

Yes, and I came on here to also say that. NE losing 2-0 to NY in the 83rd minute, so TFC should be second in the league, and first in the East in terms of PPG, before the end of today. I know PPG is no sure bet when you have so many games in hand -- it really depends how TFC does when it's playing those extra games. However in checking the results so far, TFC has already played more of the current top teams in the league, and fewer of the bottom feeders, while missing some influential players for stretches. So I don't see a strong reason for the PPG to drop much, as they make up those games in hand. That's pretty amazing, and not what I expected.

In the end, it's only the results that matter, and they've ground out enough of those that we can have a pretty good feeling. However, if we're honest about some of those games, we've also been more lucky than in the past. TFC was totally dominated by their opponents in a few games. If they play that way for the rest of the season (in terms of low possession, but especially in terms of not creating many good scoring opportunities) then there's also a good chance that they start dropping more points. That's why I'm still only cautiously optimistic so far.

Yesterday vs. San Jose, we saw a bit of both. We saw TFC dominating for stretches, stringing some good passes together, and creating great chances. (I saw more of that in the first few games of the season.) But we also saw them drop off physically & mentally for long stretches, and really concede the field to San Jose. The Quakes got some great scoring chances as a result, which could have easily gone in -- and really weren't necessary if TFC had continued to play the way they had earlier.

Again yesterday I felt a real lull, especially in the 2nd half, where few TFC players really stepped up to take charge. Bradley can often do that when he's here. I noticed the South End go nuts, really try to lift the team again, but TFC didn't respond much. San Jose had some real dangerous stretches as a result, incl. an open header right to Bendik, and a bullet shot flashing just past the post. Then the mood on here would have been different.

I feel the team and most of the players are actually better than they've been playing in most games. That's one reason I get so frustrated, when they seem to have no real clue, and very low possession. Yesterday it was very close to 50% possession, and decent passing accuracy. If they can keep that up, and perhaps get a bit more midfield help over the summer, then there's no reason for them to play crappy or drop lots of points.

[Auzzy]

In terms of draft picks -- weren't many of those via trades etc., where the draft position won't be affected by TFC's own standing in the league?

[Pookie]

In terms of draft picks -- weren't many of those via trades etc., where the draft position won't be affected by TFC's own standing in the league?

Just it's own position. Which through the years should have been stellar.

[PopePouri]

In terms of draft picks -- weren't many of those via trades etc., where the draft position won't be affected by TFC's own standing in the league?

If the season ended now, we'd get the 3rd, 12th, 13th and 21st pick.

[Canary10]

The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?

The goal this year is the playoffs, Pookie. It'll be a different goal next year.

Btw our points per game is the highest in the east at the break. Even higher than the vaunted SKC. So maybe the goal was too easy this year.

Also Mo Farah's goal wasn't to win his first marathon when he moved up from the 10,000m. And he was a double gold medalist. ;)

[ensco]

I don't think we've played very well, but we have gutted out about 5 victories, and there is only one game I would say we outplayed the opposition and lost (Colorado). That is what good teams do.

But ask again August 1.

[Kaz]

I never think a team that charges money for people to watch it should ever put out less than its best effort. Not wanting to win games approaches Declan Hill territory in some respects. Even if you don't go that far in your own thought process, I would think that success would be good for this team and they shouldn't piss away opportunities to achieve degrees of it along the way. That's just my opinion though. Others have reasonable and opposite views based on roster management and that's fine.

As for whether it's a bad thing, I suppose it is a question of how you would build a team.

Finishing further down the table under a long term view isn't a bad thing. That means higher draft picks.

But rather than fight the wind that blows out MLSE's arse, I should just admit that it clearly isn't a long term view from the top. It's short term based on what they say and who the sign. And short term they don't want to finish further down the table. They want to achieve a mid table result so losing in the CCL helps that view. I may not agree with it but that is the goal. So, I'll hoist the flag and set my expectations accordingly.

I would say that as a group, you really shouldn't settle for making the playoffs next year. The Cup needs to be the goal and expectation given the age of the key players in this roster… and the ticket prices you'll be paying soon.

It should have been this year. The fixtures should have designed with that in mind, we should be sitting at 13 or 14 games played with the V-Cup.. Won the cup.. and be playing the Champions league.

But honestly this franchise was about to lose it's hold in Toronto, and sit in perpetual New Jersey territory and they would never get the BMO expansion for the Winter Classic. (lets face it this is a business decision)

I don't have to agree with it.. but as I see it if we qualify for the Champions league next year, make the play-offs, and finish in the top third to top 3 of the table and go a distance in the Play-offs we have done a good job.

If next year we can make a serious run for the Supporters Shield, Win the V-Cup, the fake cup, and make a good run at the MLS Cup and go to the Champions League Quarter Finals... I think we can all be happy.

[LFC8]

If the season ended now, we'd get the 3rd, 12th, 13th and 21st pick.

Possibly a stupid question but can you trade picks or players or anything for another DP slot? If so, we would have quite the trade bait.

[brad]

Possibly a stupid question but can you trade picks or players or anything for another DP slot? If so, we would have quite the trade bait.

Nope.

[denime]

It should have been this year. The fixtures should have designed with that in mind, we should be sitting at 13 or 14 games played with the V-Cup.. Won the cup.. and be playing the Champions league.

But honestly this franchise was about to lose it's hold in Toronto, and sit in perpetual New Jersey territory and they would never get the BMO expansion for the Winter Classic. (lets face it this is a business decision)

I don't have to agree with it.. but as I see it if we qualify for the Champions league next year, make the play-offs, and finish in the top third to top 3 of the table and go a distance in the Play-offs we have done a good job.

If next year we can make a serious run for the Supporters Shield, Win the V-Cup, the fake cup, and make a good run at the MLS Cup and go to the Champions League Quarter Finals... I think we can all be happy.


There is no V Cup next year,CSA changed competition format for V Cup, team with most points at the end of this MLS season will qualify directly for Champions league 2015/16.

That puts even more weight on this season,and maybe a reason why Champions league wasn't priority this year,but playoffs and best placed Canadian team at the end of regular MLS season.

[Kaz]

There is no V Cup next year,CSA changed competition format for V Cup, team with most points at the end of this MLS season will qualify directly for Champions league 2015/16.

That puts even more weight on this season,and maybe a reason why Champions league wasn't priority this year,but playoffs and best placed Canadian team at the end of regular MLS season.

That is why I included it with this years measure of success list.

if we qualify.. by being the top team in the league this year.. ie finishing ahead of Vancouver who currently have 21 points in 13 games.

It's also why I included the V-cup in next years goals.

[Gazza_55]

If the season ended now, we'd get the 3rd, 12th, 13th and 21st pick.

Who's the team that we would get the 3rd pick from?

[molenshtain]

Who's the team that we would get the 3rd pick from?

Chivas, from the Bocanegra deal.

[gracos]

Currently TFC sits only behind Seattle Sounders in PPG, i heard someone say that Leiweke was in trouble of his position with MLSE, as of right now he helped take the Raptors to the playoffs, and we are currently looking better than any previous year, yet the ownership group is upset with Leiweke, that makes no sense to me at all and hopefully there is not backing behind it whatsoever

[Cashcleaner]

^ I wouldn't expect there is a lot of substance to those rumours. Like you said, TFC is starting to get it's collective shit together and the Raptors did a great job making people stand up and really get behind the team. The WE THE NORTH marketing campaign was a mark of genius and Tim L deserves the accolades for pushing that message.

I would imagine Leiweke will be here for at least a few years more. I mean, it's gonna take time to even begin to turn the Leafs around, after all.

[ensco]

There is a ton of instability right now at the senior level of Rogers. The people who did the MLSE deal are not in charge.

The danger is that Leiweke quits because Rogers and Bell go to war at the MLSE board, and he can't get anything done.

[OgtheDim]

The new Rogers team is very focused on mobile and maximising revenue in each channel. They are worried about Netflix and hoping their mobile payment option becomes the next Paypal. And their is real concern about hockey actually paying off.

There is no indication yet that they are trying to create a feud with Bell at MLSE for the sake of being seen to be the top Alpha Male in the business.

The Jays involvement is driven by the board (i.e. the Rogers family who remain the major shareholders) and is going nowhere.

The MLSE involvement is a way to ensure Bell doesn't get that lucrative GTHA content asset to itself.


As these are all alpha males who make decisions often based on hormonal responses to balance sheets, who knows what will happen but the talk of upset happening now is based on theories rather then what has occurred in the MLSE board room.

[ryan]

There is no V Cup next year,CSA changed competition format for V Cup, team with most points at the end of this MLS season will qualify directly for Champions league 2015/16.

That puts even more weight on this season,and maybe a reason why Champions league wasn't priority this year,but playoffs and best placed Canadian team at the end of regular MLS season.

So on that note, does Montreal have to give up the Trophy once top spot is claimed in October? Or do they get to keep it for an extra year?

[Phil]

The new Rogers team is very focused on mobile and maximising revenue in each channel. They are worried about Netflix and hoping their mobile payment option becomes the next Paypal. And their is real concern about hockey actually paying off.

There is no indication yet that they are trying to create a feud with Bell at MLSE for the sake of being seen to be the top Alpha Male in the business.

The Jays involvement is driven by the board (i.e. the Rogers family who remain the major shareholders) and is going nowhere.

The MLSE involvement is a way to ensure Bell doesn't get that lucrative GTHA content asset to itself.


As these are all alpha males who make decisions often based on hormonal responses to balance sheets, who knows what will happen but the talk of upset happening now is based on theories rather then what has occurred in the MLSE board room.

I can imagine Bell and Rogers being concerned about netflix but the real lifeline is sports, it keeps the cable plugged in for a lot of fans out there, hence the heavy investment and the need to win. It keeps everyone tuned in.

[dupont]

The thing I noticed is that I really enjoy watching games this season. I know TFC can win any game they plan in. They won't win them all obviously but I know winning is a possibility every single time. I never felt that way in the last two years.

[Oldtimer]

So on that note, does Montreal have to give up the Trophy once top spot is claimed in October? Or do they get to keep it for an extra year?

Almost certain that they will have to give it up. The Voyageurs Cup was originally awarded based on A-League standings, not on a Cup play.

[Joe Kool]

....that feeling that we are going to concede in the last 10 min of the game is gone. We may even score one now instead...

[mowe]

So on that note, does Montreal have to give up the Trophy once top spot is claimed in October? Or do they get to keep it for an extra year?

It's a confusing process, so let me attempt to clear it up.

There WILL be a Voyageurs' Cup next year. The only difference is that unlike previous years where the winner of the V Cup qualified for that same year's CCL, going forward the winner will qualify for the following year's CCL.

So the winner of the 2015 V Cup will qualify for the 2016/17 CCL.

This leaves a one year gap where there is no tournament to decide the entrant into the 2015/16 CCL. So as a one-time fix, the top MLS team will qualify for next year's CCL.

[TFC07]

The new Rogers team is very focused on mobile and maximising revenue in each channel. They are worried about Netflix and hoping their mobile payment option becomes the next Paypal. And their is real concern about hockey actually paying off.

There is no indication yet that they are trying to create a feud with Bell at MLSE for the sake of being seen to be the top Alpha Male in the business.

The Jays involvement is driven by the board (i.e. the Rogers family who remain the major shareholders) and is going nowhere.

The MLSE involvement is a way to ensure Bell doesn't get that lucrative GTHA content asset to itself.


As these are all alpha males who make decisions often based on hormonal responses to balance sheets, who knows what will happen but the talk of upset happening now is based on theories rather then what has occurred in the MLSE board room.

I could see Bell selling their shares in the future to have some cash on hand to go "war" against Rogers.

Right now, Bell/TSN doesn't have much content and they're planning to have 5 channels end of the year. So they will need money and invest into their current content while create content to make up lack of hockey and baseball (Blue Jays) games that consistently get great ratings. CFL, NFL and World Junior is only premium content that they have, but they don't play a lot of games compare to hockey and baseball.

[ManUtd4ever]

There is a ton of instability right now at the senior level of Rogers. The people who did the MLSE deal are not in charge.

The danger is that Leiweke quits because Rogers and Bell go to war at the MLSE board, and he can't get anything done.

Agreed. The Unholy Alliance was always destined to fail, and I just hope that Leiweke has the patience to see his mission through to the end.

[ManUtd4ever]

....that feeling that we are going to concede in the last 10 min of the game is gone. We may even score one now instead...

It's still lingering for me, but slowly dissipating as we continue to successfully protect leads. After all, there's a lot of emotional baggage there...g:D

[InDa_110]

And if my uncle was a girl he would be my aunt....

MLS has playoffs. Season ends today we are in the playoffs. Come October we will be in the playoffs. Don't worry about what ifs that have nothing to do with us.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It's a confusing process, so let me attempt to clear it up.

There WILL be a Voyageurs' Cup next year. The only difference is that unlike previous years where the winner of the V Cup qualified for that same year's CCL, going forward the winner will qualify for the following year's CCL.

So the winner of the 2015 V Cup will qualify for the 2016/17 CCL.

This leaves a one year gap where there is no tournament to decide the entrant into the 2015/16 CCL. So as a one-time fix, the top MLS team will qualify for next year's CCL.

This is the best explanation of WHAT is happening. Now, WHY is it happening??

[InDa_110]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

See above

[Canary10]

Yes, and I came on here to also say that. NE losing 2-0 to NY in the 83rd minute, so TFC should be second in the league, and first in the East in terms of PPG, before the end of today. I know PPG is no sure bet when you have so many games in hand -- it really depends how TFC does when it's playing those extra games. However in checking the results so far, TFC has already played more of the current top teams in the league, and fewer of the bottom feeders, while missing some influential players for stretches. So I don't see a strong reason for the PPG to drop much, as they make up those games in hand. That's pretty amazing, and not what I expected.

In the end, it's only the results that matter, and they've ground out enough of those that we can have a pretty good feeling. However, if we're honest about some of those games, we've also been more lucky than in the past. TFC was totally dominated by their opponents in a few games. If they play that way for the rest of the season (in terms of low possession, but especially in terms of not creating many good scoring opportunities) then there's also a good chance that they start dropping more points. That's why I'm still only cautiously optimistic so far.

Yesterday vs. San Jose, we saw a bit of both. We saw TFC dominating for stretches, stringing some good passes together, and creating great chances. (I saw more of that in the first few games of the season.) But we also saw them drop off physically & mentally for long stretches, and really concede the field to San Jose. The Quakes got some great scoring chances as a result, which could have easily gone in -- and really weren't necessary if TFC had continued to play the way they had earlier.

Again yesterday I felt a real lull, especially in the 2nd half, where few TFC players really stepped up to take charge. Bradley can often do that when he's here. I noticed the South End go nuts, really try to lift the team again, but TFC didn't respond much. San Jose had some real dangerous stretches as a result, incl. an open header right to Bendik, and a bullet shot flashing just past the post. Then the mood on here would have been different.

I feel the team and most of the players are actually better than they've been playing in most games. That's one reason I get so frustrated, when they seem to have no real clue, and very low possession. Yesterday it was very close to 50% possession, and decent passing accuracy. If they can keep that up, and perhaps get a bit more midfield help over the summer, then there's no reason for them to play crappy or drop lots of points.

Part of that against San Jose is that they play almost the identical kind of game as TFC. They sit back, let you advance 1/3 into their half, then they hit you with an organized midfield and defence. Our possession looked better because we were playing ourselves! When they abandoned that game in the second half when they needed a goal, the roles reversed somewhat and we were the ones letting them advance. There weren't a whole lot of chances for either team as a result.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Here's an interesting philosophical question.

If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?


I would be ecstatic that finally North America had the same priorities as I do. We are imagining that, too, right? 'Cause otherwise we'd all be worried about attendance being half of what it is league-wide.


Not that I like this. I hate it but it's the way is here for now anyway.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Making the playoffs was the clear goal this year.

Your question to me is like setting a goal to finish a marathon and having someone say 'what if there are no marathons, just 100k ultras?'

Well i would have a different goal then.

What's interesting about that question?


Well, it prompted that response, for one. g:D

[Super]

I think we look greatly improved for past years. We're competitive, tough to beat, and scoring goals. 10 points in the past 4 games - that's pretty solid. Not counting Amway of course.

[C.Ronaldo]

can I ask you pookie...when you drink a glass of milk,beer,water,is the glass always half empty:drinking:

or as woody allen puts it, half full of poison

[Fort York Redcoat]

The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?

This is pretty simple stuff here, Pook. SKC and RSL are better put together and we don't look like a Shield winner yet. It's also been stated elsewhere that our record favours us.

The above quote, though, is moving the goalposts on your part to show we're not where we should be comparing pitch play to what's on paper. We're not players, we're supporters that make expectations and it seems pretty disingenuous of you unless you've changed your priorities from playoffs. I don't remember you prioritizing the CCL and Shield previously so why is it more important now? Especially since management seems to have listened to the majority on this present playoff priority?

You think we should win it all with the $$ we spent? Agreed. But how disappointed are you because we lost the cup vs holding management to underachievement? That's kind of insulting to the minority that actually care for these things over playoffs. Just sayin.

I'm on board with your disappointment but reckon it's not coming from the same place. That get's stuck in my craw. And it's uncomfortable.g:D

[Canary10]

Well, it prompted that response, for one. g:D

Damn you!

[C.Ronaldo]

Part of that against San Jose is that they play almost the identical kind of game as TFC. They sit back, let you advance 1/3 into their half, then they hit you with an organized midfield and defence. Our possession looked better because we were playing ourselves! When they abandoned that game in the second half when they needed a goal, the roles reversed somewhat and we were the ones letting them advance. There weren't a whole lot of chances for either team as a result.

SJ: no we play counter, you take it

TFC: no we play counter you take it


pretty much sums up the game

[brad]

SJ: no we play counter, you take it

TFC: no we play counter you take it


pretty much sums up the game

There was a funny quote from an Atletico player when they played Chelsea in the CL - they asked him what they would do when they had the ball (or something like that). He laughed and said they would give it back.

[Pookie]

This is pretty simple stuff here, Pook. SKC and RSL are better put together and we don't look like a Shield winner yet. It's also been stated elsewhere that our record favours us.

The above quote, though, is moving the goalposts on your part to show we're not where we should be comparing pitch play to what's on paper. We're not players, we're supporters that make expectations and it seems pretty disingenuous of you unless you've changed your priorities from playoffs. I don't remember you prioritizing the CCL and Shield previously so why is it more important now? Especially since management seems to have listened to the majority on this present playoff priority?

You think we should win it all with the $$ we spent? Agreed. But how disappointed are you because we lost the cup vs holding management to underachievement? That's kind of insulting to the minority that actually care for these things over playoffs. Just sayin.

I'm on board with your disappointment but reckon it's not coming from the same place. That get's stuck in my craw. And it's uncomfortable.g:D


You should give your craw regular maintenance. Those things can get funky if you don't care for them.

Going into this season, I didn't have any personal expectations on playoffs or CCL. But I was more than happy to hold the team accountable to them as Tim was very clear what would happen. He also talked about a culture of winning.

I see taking competitions lightly as counter to creating that culture. I also don't get excited about "competing for the playoffs" as I've heard that time and time again from the Leafs. Some teams actually talk about championships, imagine that. So, I don't see competing for the playoffs as creating a culture of winning. Winning creates a culture of winning, regardless of the competition.

As I said on page 2 though, I'm coming around to the idea that playoffs should be a personal expectation not just something that I throw out there for Tim's sake. The team's key players have a short window here… relatively speaking. Adding Oduro who turns 29 this season and another indication that they need to leverage Defoe for as long as his health and/or contract last. Why not go for it?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Going into this season, I didn't have any personal expectations on playoffs or CCL. But I was more than happy to hold the team accountable to them as Tim was very clear what would happen. He also talked about a culture of winning.

I see taking competitions lightly as counter to creating that culture. I also don't get excited about "competing for the playoffs" as I've heard that time and time again from the Leafs. Some teams actually talk about championships, imagine that. So, I don't see competing for the playoffs as creating a culture of winning. Winning creates a culture of winning, regardless of the competition.

As I said on page 2 though, I'm coming around to the idea that playoffs should be a personal expectation not just something that I throw out there for Tim's sake. The team's key players have a short window here… relatively speaking. Adding Oduro who turns 29 this season and another indication that they need to leverage Defoe for as long as his health and/or contract last. Why not go for it?

So where can we see your credit for growing " a culture of winning " from actually winning? That's what happened since we lost the cup last week. Instead we're reminded of what teams we don't look like yet.

[Ultra & Proud]

I see taking competitions lightly as counter to creating that culture. I also don't get excited about "competing for the playoffs" as I've heard that time and time again from the Leafs. Some teams actually talk about championships, imagine that. So, I don't see competing for the playoffs as creating a culture of winning. Winning creates a culture of winning, regardless of the competition.

As I said on page 2 though, I'm coming around to the idea that playoffs should be a personal expectation not just something that I throw out there for Tim's sake. The team's key players have a short window here… relatively speaking. Adding Oduro who turns 29 this season and another indication that they need to leverage Defoe for as long as his health and/or contract last. Why not go for it?


Competing for the playoffs is a step towards the bigger picture. Competing for the playoffs means winning matches which leads to that often mentioned winning mentality. From there the playoffs offer a crap shoot. We could go on a Houston style roll once we get there but you don't win the MLS Cup without getting to the playoffs first. And you always mention a short window with Oduro and Defoe but don't mention that the rest of squad, the bulk core of the squad, is 26 and younger. To build a consistent winner that core needs experience and by aiming for playoffs and experiencing the playoffs is how it's done. Guys like Defoe and Caldwell are here for the now of course and also to show and/or teach our younger players what it takes to be a solid pro. It's all steps to a bigger picture. Liewke's mentioned championships already, he just isn't stupid enough to call for one this year. If you step away from your incessant negativity and the dwelling on a few of the salesman-esque pitches from Lieweke and look objectively for a change, you'd probably be able to see the bigger picture.

[pdogg]

How many of the last 10 MLS Cup championships also won the Supporters Shield? 2 - LAG in 2011, Crew in 2008
How many of the last 20 MLS Cup finalists also won the Supporters Shield? 2 - LAG in 2011, Crew in 2008
How many of the last 20 MLS Cup finalists also won the US Open Cup? 2 - Revs in 2007, Wizards in 2004

My point being is that success in the playoffs (at least getting to the finals), appears to be independent of being at the top of the table in MLS. And as many have said above, if our goal is to win championships, the first step is actually making the playoffs for once. I'd love for us to be a perennial Supporters Shield contender, but one step at a time.

1st goal - make the playoffs - a necessity
2nd goal - win at least one round in the playoffs - an expectation
3rd goal - go as deep as possible
4th goal - win the MLS Cup

Next year? Drop the lowest goal off (make the playoffs), and the next in line becomes a necessity (win at least one round). Toss Supporter shield contender onto the goal list.

[Pookie]

Competing for the playoffs is a step towards the bigger picture. Competing for the playoffs means winning matches which leads to that often mentioned winning mentality. From there the playoffs offer a crap shoot. We could go on a Houston style roll once we get there but you don't win the MLS Cup without getting to the playoffs first. And you always mention a short window with Oduro and Defoe but don't mention that the rest of squad, the bulk core of the squad, is 26 and younger. To build a consistent winner that core needs experience and by aiming for playoffs and experiencing the playoffs is how it's done. Guys like Defoe and Caldwell are here for the now of course and also to show and/or teach our younger players what it takes to be a solid pro. It's all steps to a bigger picture. Liewke's mentioned championships already, he just isn't stupid enough to call for one this year. If you step away from your incessant negativity and the dwelling on a few of the salesman-esque pitches from Lieweke and look objectively for a change, you'd probably be able to see the bigger picture.


I debated just ignoring this but the "incessant negativity" comment made me chuckle.

I am one of a handful of folks that steps up and says stop calling our young and developing players "shit" after every poor performance or mistake. I'm also pretty public in saying that a coaching change would be one of the worst things that the team could do over the long term and Nelsen should be given time. I've also highlighted that Tim B was a solid choice in my opinion and I really like the fact they have kept their draft picks thus far.

Perhaps you interpret not pulling out pom poms for Defoe as negativity?

Look, I don't like the Defoe signing and my reasons are very consistent and it has everything to do with the big picture.

He's oft injured and his injury risk increases with age. We get no budget relief for injured players and speaking of budget, my guess is that ticket prices are going to be jacked by double digits sometime between now and his retirement.

I don't think that next year's draft class will really be in a position to contribute until Defoe is in the remaining 2 years of his deal. Resigning a 34 year old under these no budget relief roster rules would be absolutely the wrong thing to do.

As for the core, most are younger though in moving Rey (23) for Oduro (29 this year), they are signaling that youth isn't untouchable. I hope to hell they don't trade any of the picks next year.

The biggest part of that core is Bradley and resigning him is a question mark. He'd be 30 at the time of the contract offer, assuming he wants to stay north of the border. I would hope that if resigning him was an issue that TFC would unload him in the final year of his deal… Defoe's last year… to recoup players and draft picks. That means you have a real short window.

Gilberto, another player I support in my supposed incessant negativity, should still be a significant part of the team if he survives the mob calling for his buyout.

Team building is big picture stuff. You want to have a core that can grow together and DPs are a significant part of that. You have to get that right. If we had a DP core that was about 23 years old in Gilberto-Laba-Urutti, I'd be incredibly optimistic about this team and it's "big picture." There you would have a team ready to go for it in 2-3 years… with the picks next year…. and could conceivably be at the top of the table for the better part of a decade.

Right now we have to gamble on Defoe's hamstrings, assume that Bradley will want to stay, and have to fight constantly to weigh the "do I make a trade to get into the playoffs and hurt our long term future" equation.

I get that a slow and steady rebuild is foreign to Toronto fans. But not seeing the big picture? Funny.

[Canary10]

How many of the last 10 MLS Cup championships also won the Supporters Shield? 2 - LAG in 2011, Crew in 2008
How many of the last 20 MLS Cup finalists also won the Supporters Shield? 2 - LAG in 2011, Crew in 2008
How many of the last 20 MLS Cup finalists also won the US Open Cup? 2 - Revs in 2007, Wizards in 2004

My point being is that success in the playoffs (at least getting to the finals), appears to be independent of being at the top of the table in MLS. And as many have said above, if our goal is to win championships, the first step is actually making the playoffs for once. I'd love for us to be a perennial Supporters Shield contender, but one step at a time.

1st goal - make the playoffs - a necessity
2nd goal - win at least one round in the playoffs - an expectation
3rd goal - go as deep as possible
4th goal - win the MLS Cup

Next year? Drop the lowest goal off (make the playoffs), and the next in line becomes a necessity (win at least one round). Toss Supporter shield contender onto the goal list.

Imagine if we made the playoffs as, like, the eighth placed team, then went on and won the whole thing? Not at all impossible given how playoffs play out.

[T-boy]

Imagine if we made the playoffs as, like, the eighth placed team, then went on and won the whole thing? Not at all impossible given how playoffs play out.

didn't the Rapids do that a few seasons ago?

[Canary10]

didn't the Rapids do that a few seasons ago?

The year it was held at BMO....foreshadowing......

[Ultra & Proud]

The biggest part of that core is Bradley and resigning him is a question mark. He'd be 30 at the time of the contract offer
Bradley is on a 6 year contract.

Also, we have a youthful core. I see the point of having vets along with youth and not full on youth. The full on youth thing is what we should have done in 2010 or so. Then a few years of poor results could have been tolerated. Unfortunately we are past that now. This is why I knew Payne would never last. The daggers come out here after one half of football most days. No way could another year of crap be tolerated. Even a crap year that showed progress. We made our bed in 7 years of crap so these types of measures were necessary (the Defoe & Bradley deals) to keep the team relevant while trying to build around a domestic core. I am not as worried about Defoe's legs as you are because although he's 31, he hadn't played a ton of minutes for Spurs in a few years. I think that's why he had hamstring troubles as well.

As for Rey, yes, we moved him for a guy 4+ years older but it was clear Rey wasn't going to fit and we got a domestic in his place. That speaks to me louder than age as domestics are what makes teams perennial winners in MLS and thusly why we've never won in MLS.

And I think you see your big picture. You hate that we signed Defoe and that we dumped Urruti and were forced to lose Laba for a year (hopefully). I don't like a lot of things that have been done and I sure don't like all our present players but I can step outside of that and can see what they are trying to do. So far it's working more than anything we've tried before so I don't see the point in a lot of the same complaints over and over especially banging the drum on Lieweke's playoff guarantee quote. It is what it is.

The ticket prices thing we'll get to when it happens. They'll go up for sure but I don't see us doing the 30% yearly increases like before.

[pdogg]

Imagine if we made the playoffs as, like, the eighth placed team, then went on and won the whole thing? Not at all impossible given how playoffs play out.


Looking at the last few finals, we can see the positions of the teams
2013 (east 2nd, west 2nd) - I think we can call that 3rd and 4th place on the table, maybe?
2012 (E5, W4) - 7/8th and 9/10th
2011 (E2, W1) - more of what you'd expect
2010 (E3, W3) - 5th and 6th place
2009 (E4, W1) - 7th/8th from the east
2008 (E1, W4) - 7th/8th from the west (the two seasons mirrored each other)
2007 (E2, W2) - 3rd/4th
2006 (E2, W2) - 3rd/4th
2005 (E1, W4) - 7/8th in made it again
2004 (E2, W1) - more of what you'd expect

In the 1st/2nd vs 7th/8th finals matchup, it's an even 2-2. Not entirely a resounding claim for the best team in MLS being the Cup champion - just the tournament champion.

[Pookie]

...

Lots of different big pictures in our houses. I can respect yours.

[ensco]

What I want to be is Seattle, Portland , RSL, possibly Vancouver ... teams that play attractive soccer and are contenders. Given where we were, it was a 2-3 year project even with Leiweke's ability to unlock $100M for the project.

I didn't think we were on track 4 weeks ago, but now I am just not sure. I mean that in a good way, I see many positives - the ability to close out games, Bez moving internationals for decent domestics, Nelsen starting to finally look like he might have a tactical clue after all...

I don't need us to make the playoffs this year, and I still don't think we will. I think we will fade in the summer, my gut says we're just not playing well enough to sustain this. It's a tough league, we were so bad last year, and objectively we are not that much better this year ex Defoe and Bradley (which will not be enough over 34 games) ...

But maybe we are on track after all. I can live with missing the playoffs if we keep improving.

[LFC8]

^Half of the teams make the playoffs. If we don't make it this year than i'd consider that a HUGE failure.

[Alonso]

Possibly a stupid question but can you trade picks or players or anything for another DP slot? If so, we would have quite the trade bait.


Not a stupid question at all because you could trade them in the past, just not anymore.

[brad]

Not a stupid question at all because you could trade them in the past, just not anymore.

I would say there is no such thing as a stupid question when it comes to the MLS rule. I'm pretty familiar with them, but still feel like I'm in a constant state of confusion most of the time.

[Alonso]

This is the best explanation of WHAT is happening. Now, WHY is it happening??



My best guess is that the powers that be wanted to move NCC from late winter/early spring to summer/fall, with the CCL starting in the subsequent MLS Summer season.

Summer/fall is when the CCL tournament is actually played so the 'gap issue' came into play creating the need for the one time qualification to the tournament from the MLS standings this year.

If this is the case, TFC or Vancouver (not giving Impact a chance at this point) could potentially be competing in CCL, MLS, and NCC all at the same time next year.

A temporary congestion so that they could move the tournament to their preferred spot in the season.

Your question still stands though.... what is better about Summer/Fall qualification vs Winter/Spring qualification ?

My only guess is that Edmonton/Montreal/Toronto/Ottawa can barely host suitable games outdoors during these times of the year (Winter/Spring) vs having the tournament in the later stages of MLS/NASL where there is better weather and potentially more hype for the tournament from the MLS and NASL faithful. Also they can now stretch the NCC tournament out over the MLS and NASL season with good weather for as long as they want. ( ie. may to november where as before they were limited to march to may)

[Pookie]

So does Defoe's rumoured loan in Jan '15 to QPR change the short term outlook?

[LFC8]

I wouldn't worry about that rumour. I'm assuming you read the one from sportsmole? They are a 'headline' site not a news site lol

[ensco]

^Half of the teams make the playoffs. If we don't make it this year than i'd consider that a HUGE failure.

Cmon. We were 20 points out of the playoffs last year!

[Pookie]

I wouldn't worry about that rumour. I'm assuming you read the one from sportsmole? They are a 'headline' site not a news site lol

Sure. And a few MLS stars go on loan in January. Just playing what if.

[LFC8]

Cmon. We were 20 points out of the playoffs last year!

Lol i know it's a BIG jump to make the playoffs but we didn't have Defoe, Bradley, Morrow, Gilberto etc. on that team. Times are a changin Ensco! We are no longer the basement dwellers and i smell playoffs!


This was how i felt about the team last year after every game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

Now i`m a bit more optimistic:scarf:

[PAOK17]

It's a confusing process, so let me attempt to clear it up.

There WILL be a Voyageurs' Cup next year. The only difference is that unlike previous years where the winner of the V Cup qualified for that same year's CCL, going forward the winner will qualify for the following year's CCL.

So the winner of the 2015 V Cup will qualify for the 2016/17 CCL.

This leaves a one year gap where there is no tournament to decide the entrant into the 2015/16 CCL. So as a one-time fix, the top MLS team will qualify for next year's CCL.
Just to add, we are basically complying with how other summer leagues (MLS included) go about determining their representatives for the continental tournaments (which tend to be winter based).

For example, the Danish Champion of 2015, will play in the 2016-2017 UEFA Champion's League.
Likewise, the MLS Cup Champion of 2014, will play in the 2015-2016 CCL.
The Canadian Champion of 2015, will play in the 2016-2017 CCL.

The only reason it looks funny to us to wait an entire year is because the Voyageurs Cup is a short tournament that has been over before the new CCL has started.

[JavierMartini]

Third in Points per game after seattle and NER. not too shabby

[MightyDM]

What I want to be is Seattle, Portland , RSL, possibly Vancouver ... teams that play attractive soccer and are contenders. Given where we were, it was a 2-3 year project even with Leiweke's ability to unlock $100M for the project.

I didn't think we were on track 4 weeks ago, but now I am just not sure. I mean that in a good way, I see many positives - the ability to close out games, Bez moving internationals for decent domestics, Nelsen starting to finally look like he might have a tactical clue after all...

I don't need us to make the playoffs this year, and I still don't think we will. I think we will fade in the summer, my gut says we're just not playing well enough to sustain this. It's a tough league, we were so bad last year, and objectively we are not that much better this year ex Defoe and Bradley (which will not be enough over 34 games) ...

But maybe we are on track after all. I can live with missing the playoffs if we keep improving.

Kind of fair. And Pookie's latest is not nearly as harsh and negative as usual. It's all a work in progress, with some signs of progress, agreed by both of you, and by most of us. But isn't it great to watch Defoe score and to see us win, even if we know we aren't good enough yet? That second goal versus Columbus was incredible. And it was for us, not against us.

[pdogg]

This is the best explanation of WHAT is happening. Now, WHY is it happening??

1. Expansion of the tournament at a later date. Right now we have to determine the NCC champion by a certain date - June 1st ? -for the CCL entrance. This limits the # of rounds.
2. Better weather for our colder climate friends.

thats my two guesses.

[Fort York Redcoat]

My best guess is that the powers that be wanted to move NCC from late winter/early spring to summer/fall, with the CCL starting in the subsequent MLS Summer season.

Summer/fall is when the CCL tournament is actually played so the 'gap issue' came into play creating the need for the one time qualification to the tournament from the MLS standings this year.

If this is the case, TFC or Vancouver (not giving Impact a chance at this point) could potentially be competing in CCL, MLS, and NCC all at the same time next year.

A temporary congestion so that they could move the tournament to their preferred spot in the season.

Your question still stands though.... what is better about Summer/Fall qualification vs Winter/Spring qualification ?

My only guess is that Edmonton/Montreal/Toronto/Ottawa can barely host suitable games outdoors during these times of the year (Winter/Spring) vs having the tournament in the later stages of MLS/NASL where there is better weather and potentially more hype for the tournament from the MLS and NASL faithful. Also they can now stretch the NCC tournament out over the MLS and NASL season with good weather for as long as they want. ( ie. may to november where as before they were limited to march to may)


1. Expansion of the tournament at a later date. Right now we have to determine the NCC champion by a certain date - June 1st ? -for the CCL entrance. This limits the # of rounds.
2. Better weather for our colder climate friends.

thats my two guesses.


Thanks Gentlemen. Although I won't enjoy the change as it happens I'm really just happy the tourneys aren't going away.

[Canary10]

What I want to be is Seattle, Portland , RSL, possibly Vancouver ... teams that play attractive soccer and are contenders. Given where we were, it was a 2-3 year project even with Leiweke's ability to unlock $100M for the project.

I didn't think we were on track 4 weeks ago, but now I am just not sure. I mean that in a good way, I see many positives - the ability to close out games, Bez moving internationals for decent domestics, Nelsen starting to finally look like he might have a tactical clue after all...

I don't need us to make the playoffs this year, and I still don't think we will. I think we will fade in the summer, my gut says we're just not playing well enough to sustain this. It's a tough league, we were so bad last year, and objectively we are not that much better this year ex Defoe and Bradley (which will not be enough over 34 games) ...

But maybe we are on track after all. I can live with missing the playoffs if we keep improving.

We're simply not going to play like Seattle, Portland, RSL and Vancouver with Ryan Nelsen as the head coach. That's just not the style or tactics he's implementing. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, as most of those teams bleed goals.

None of us can predict the future obviously, but I think this team gets stronger over the course of the season rather than fades. Just having Bradley back will be a big boost. And the more time they play together the better they will get. We used to have teams that would get walked over in the midfield. With Bradley, Jackson, Caldwell, Henry, etc we have guys with steel who push people around. That's going to win more often than not.

[Canary10]

Third in Points per game after seattle and NER. not too shabby

Second.

[CBTFC]

Been just over a month since the last post in here, and I'm interested on hearing how/if people's opinions have changed.

But when it comes down to it, stats matter most. We currently sit 3rd in the East, and have 2 games in hand on the Revs, and 3 in hand against every other team in playoff positions.

Yep, I still feel we're in a good, and possibly even better, place than when I first posted this.

TFC!

:drum:

[BuSaPuNk]

I'd change the title to were in a FUCKING great place. One of the best points per game in the league, games in hand to jump higher and games in hand to bury teams below us.
Were great, we have to really take advantage of these games in hand.

[Bantamfan]

we have to really take advantage of these games in hand.
That is they key. Make those games
in hand count. 3 points in the bag is better than a game in hand.

[QBall]

I would feel better if we can get others on the team to score some goals. While I am grateful for what Defoe has done our current fourth highest goal scorer, Issey Nakajima-Farran, was traded away two months ago. Considering he only had two goals for TFC I would hope that someone on the team would have passed him by now. My heart skips a beat every time Defoe gets up slowly from a tackle or if I see him running/jogging with even a temporary limp.
As for where we are in the standings we are perfectly placed. We are starting to become out of reach of teams like Philly and Chicago, who are trying to keep pace with those in a playoff position, while gaining ground on SKC and DC.